NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - 40s and Free Agents: Running Back Prospects with Maurice Jones-Drew

Episode Date: April 3, 2025

NFL Network's Gregg Rosenthal and Daniel Jeremiah are joined by former NFL running back Maurice Jones-Drew to talk all things running back. Aside from the news of the Dallas Cowboys acquiring QB Joe Milton III from the Patriots, the trio talks almost exclusively college running back prospects, from ASU's Cam Skattebo to UNC's Omarion Hampton, and of course, Boise St.'s Ashton Jeanty. Just three weeks from the 2025 NFL Draft, don't miss one of the most nuanced discussions about RB prospects in all of football media on the latest "40s and Free Agents." NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And welcome to 40s and free agents. I'm Greg Rosenthal here with America's favorite draft analyst. Daniel Jeremiah, one of my favorite days of the week. Forties and Free Agents Day, although it has been a tough week for one of us here. Daniel, sad news came across the NFL. It came during the league meeting that they will no longer be used. using the chain gang and you know Sony announced it and you've built a a nice little career here on with move the sticks as your Twitter handle and what are you going to do now buddy

well first of all I appreciate everybody reaching out you know I just not really ready to talk about it at this point in time I just to appreciate if you respect my my and my podcast privacy during these tough moments but I do want to thank the outpouring of support and love that we've received through on what's been a pretty difficult week, Greg. Yeah, let's think of the real victims here, you know, not the, the poor gentleman on the sidelines who are just going to be watching out. They're still going to be there. They're still going to be there. They're insurance. They're insurance guys now. You know what I mean? If you need them, they're going to be as reliable as

ever, waiting on call, ready to go, ready to deliver. At least for one year. And yeah, you know, way back in the day, I remember this, this good Twitter handle, move the sticks popped up on Twitter. Who is this guy? A mysterious scout didn't reveal his name at first. I had a lot of good analysis, but I guess you can keep your name. That was it hiding my name? What are you talking about? Come on. Come on. You're ruining the vibe here. Let's do a little news to start the show. As we're starting to tape, we learned and yes, rest in peace to the chain gang. They had a good run. It's been a it's been a hundred years. Let's see if we get a lot of footage there. I don't know anybody had shot that much footage of the chain gang.

It was pretty amazing. We got some news on Thursday morning that the Patriots are trading Joe Milton and a seventh round pick to the Cowboys for a fifth round pick. The Cowboys just love giving up picks for potential backup quarterbacks. They gave up one for Tray Lance. He is no longer even on the roster. So Joe Milton has one year with the Patriots. He ruins their chances of having the number one overall pick

because he beats the bills in week 18. And then they get a fifth round pick back for. What did you make of this? Well, I mean, look, I don't blame the Cowboys for trying to, you know, upgrade the backup quarterback position after Cooper Rush walked out the door. So made sense for them. I think with the Patriots, obviously Drake May is that guy and going to be that guy going forward. The only thing I would have thought of from the Patriots standpoint is, you know,

you still have an offensive line that's a little bit leaky. So if for some reason Drake May weren't to be able to try it out there for 17 weeks, I think you get an opportunity to display him again. and maybe that price even goes up higher. But, you know, look, you got a chance to, you know, get a nice pick form at this point in time with very little that he's had to play. You know, it's hard to fault. It's hard to fault the Patriots and I totally get where the Cowboys are coming from.

I feel like the Cowboys are getting a lot of grief for this. I mean, I've never understood that. I remember having a conversation with Howie Roseman a long time ago about the value of the backup quarterback. And he's, for the most part, has always had, you know, has always paid that guy in that position. He's like, I just, I can't understand how, you know, you could pay like some of these other positions of lesser importance, this kind of money. And then if our starting quarterback goes down, we're cooked. Like, that's it. Like, why would you not invest in that position? So I'm okay with it. They should invest, but it was weird to me the second Mike Brable took that job, we immediately

started hearing like, hey, Joe Milton could be available. So for whatever reason, they just did not want to keep him after one year. And he looked dynamite in that one game. He made a couple of throws. that made Taylor Rap look flat-footed on this throw across his body that ended up being a touchdown to Kendrick Bourne. He had another throw down the sideline that was measured as the fastest throw, I believe, at NGS history. The defenders thought the play was over, and he gets a touchdown out of it. They ended up calling it back as a penalty.

So I don't know why they wanted to get rid of him, but they got Josh Dobbs, and that'll be their backup quarterback. It does feel like you need another veteran in that room. But when I started hearing the takesters say that, oh, like, what does this mean when it comes to Dak Press? Scott, like, how about those rooms? It's like, this is one of those stories that if it happened the second day of free agency, it would have been 30th on the rundown, but because there's nothing to talk about right now, there's nothing going on. We're leading the show with that,

although I like, I like Joe Milton. I mean, you want me to give you my Milton notes coming out? Yes, I am curious about what you thought of them coming out because they didn't even really get a clean fifth round pick. They're sending a seventh back. So it's like a pick swap, not even getting a full pick. So for people forget, like Milton coming out, he was a little over 6, 235 pounds he's got big hands like 10 and a quarter inch hands big old mitts ran 4-6-2 at his pro day so he's obviously height weight speed athleticism six years in college uh he was 24 coming into the draft remember he started at michigan then goes to tennessee huge huge arm uh i thought he had quiet feet like he's real comfortable back there his issue and it would

followed him through college through you know those two stops was he got a little stuck on his first read um and just wasn't it just wouldn't get deep through progressions but like just go out there and watch him throw him warmups and watch him spend a football and watch him run around the talent was outrageous and he was a very gifted runner although he was a reluctant runner coming out but that's an element to his game I thought wherever he got an opportunity in the NFL they might tap into more of that but Joe Milton's been a guy everybody's been dreaming on through all of his collegiate career those six years it was always the next year was going to be the Joe Milton year and then the next year is going to be the Joe Milton year

it's always been potential and then he just gave you a little taste just gave you a little taste of it at the end of the year last year. And you can understand why teams are going to always be excited about that. It broke my son Walker's heart. He's a big preseason guy. Joe Milton put up some nice preseason tape too. So I'm not surprised that a team was interested, at least for that cheap pick. Let's talk a little bit about the real news that came out this week.

DJ has got a new top 50 prospects. I believe it's 4.0 that came out on Wednesday. Not a lot of crazy movement in this. I'm curious, though, what is happening between 3.0, which was, I would say about a month ago, maybe six weeks ago. Like, what is happening? It was post-combine between then and now to get these players moving. Yeah, I'm glad you asked that because, in full disclosure, I asked you to ask me this question. I want to be honest with everybody.

You could have just pretended, yeah. No, I want to be truthful and transparent here. I get this a lot, which is they haven't played games in so long. How do these guys move up and down the board? and it's not specific to, you know, just the media side of things. This is what's going on with teams. Guys are going to move. You try and anchor the board so you don't have wild swings on there.

But you are going to get more information and you are going to have an opportunity to watch more players. From my side of things, the analogy that I, you know, I think maybe this will make sense. If you're of our generation, Greg, you probably did this as a kid. You probably more than me. Just, you know, maybe a little bit closer on a nerd skill. But you take the change. You take, remember when you were a kid and you'd have like a piggy bank, you'd have like a place where you keep all your change. And you

dump all your change out. And then you would sort it. You would take the quarters, the dimes, the nickels, and you'd just separate them. That's like the first part of the draft process. It's like, okay, I know these are all the quarters. These are all the dimes. These are all the nickels. These are all the pennies. And then you can go through. Once you've got them kind of in those piles, now it's like, okay, I could look at the dates on here. And now I can go inside the dimes. I can just kind of sort the dimes based off the dates on the penny. Like this is what you're having to do now. Initially, you go through, it's a, it's like a broad stroke. You get You know, you know, don't get as deep on the players, but I can kind of put them in their clumps and kind of put them there.

And now later in the process, I can go back and just, okay, let me watch these targets for these three receivers that I have real close together. And then that's where you get a little bit of the movement. I don't know what you're trying to say about me, though, that I'm doing it more than you. Maybe that you were growing up in the lap of luxury down there in Southern California. And, you know, every time, every time we go down to Tijuana, you get a Tijuana. You get a Tijuana blanket and a Tijuana piggy bank. Man, as a kid in San Diego, it doesn't get any better than that. That's awesome.

And hey, why not just watch more tape and sometimes you change your mind? If I'm making rankings, I'm always changing my mind based off the last thing I saw. People get upset about it, though. It happens. It absolutely happens. They think that you just, whatever your first thought is, that has to be gospel. Let's talk about some of the big movements. Ted McMillan dropped to 18.

It wasn't a dramatic drop. I would say you've been a little lower than consensus on him throughout if you kind of look at the rest of the boards. And he's still very high. you like him as a top 20 player, which is great. But he did start out as the second wide receiver behind Travis Hunter, if we're calling Hunter a receiver. And now he is the fourth on your list. So I am kind of curious in terms of stacking.

You talked about sorting the dime. So when we're sorting these wide receivers, why has he fallen a couple notches? Well, a couple things. I mean, first of all, he wasn't, I mean, he's big. He's a big guy, but not quite as big as you thought initially. He ran okay. He didn't run great.

So that's the testing side of it. But that really wasn't it for me. Some of the issues that I had with him is just I wanted to see him be a little more physical, play with a little more urgency, be a little stronger, you know, work back through defenders a little more aggressively. He has got, as you can see on the clips, unbelievable ball skills. Like he has got a crazy catch radius, that volleyball background. You can see the coordination and the ability to get up in the air and make plays. I just thought it was more so about what those other two guys did do with Golden and Abuka.

First of all, they both ran really well, which that's nice, but that really wasn't it. I thought both those guys just played stronger, played firmer, played with more urgency. I feel like I know exactly what I'm getting with them. I think McMillan still has the highest ceiling of those three guys. And if you hit, you could really hit it. I just thought I was a little more sure in what I was buying with the other two. Yeah, and they're all very close. Matthew Golden from Texas is at 16.

Amika, Buka at 17 from Ohio State. I'm with you. You can kind of see those two. receivers and you just know they're going to be rotation solid, second, third receivers, whatever it's going to be, they're going to play in the NFL or McMillan. I'd be tempted, is this, I'm just throwing this out there. And I know he's not even in your top 50. I'd be tempted if you're into the McMillan archetype.

I like James. Take him in the second round. I'm a Higgins guy. I like Higgins a lot, too. And Higgins, you know, what's funny is my son is at Baylor and he works in their recruiting department. And one of the things I did with him when he was home was I watched McMillan and I watched Higgins. And I said, let's put him side by side. Just divorce yourself of anything you know because

we've been hearing about McMillan forever. And just watch him and tell me what you think. Because Higgins does compete for the ball a little bit more. He draws a ton of DPI's because of how competitive and physical he is. He's not quite as smooth and as polished a mover as McMillan, but he's stronger, firmer, tougher. So there's an argument that I think you could make there. And I would go out in a limb and say, I'd think some teams will have it that way, that he actually would be over McMillan on some boards. Breaking news, your son's in the scouting department. You're going to try to replace me at some point here on 40s and free agents?

No, no, no, no. He does the scouting, like the real football side. Not like, you know, Greg's personality guy, he's a, he's more of a, on the football side. Someone's got to be. Let's talk about Jackson Dart. He's up four spots to number 36. Yeah, since our last show, I got to admit, It's the first time I've actually watched a lot of Jackson Dart.

I get why he's there. I have no problem with where you're putting him because to me, you see the athleticism is awesome. You can throw it. You can see a team falling in love with him. But if I had a criticism, it's like you don't see a lot of quarterback-y stuff to use. It's a lot of one-reed. It's a lot of system-specific. And you can see if he gets with the right coach.

How do you rank a guy maybe that you haven't seen him do a lot of the stuff that you need to see at the next level? Like, are you asking around about how he can pick up stuff? Because you don't necessarily see it with him on the film. Yeah, I think it's hard to find any colleges nowadays that do that. I mean, we have this discussion with guys every year. Last year was Bo Nix. It's just a lot of pick and stick, you know, like the ball's out. You just, you know, they have a lot of stuff predetermined, quick hitters, balls gone.

With Jackson Dart, it's a lot of, as we're seeing on the highlights here, it's a lot of shot plays. It's a lot of schemed up winners. there are opportunities where you see him get from one to two but it's not reading things all the way out but gosh Greg there's just not many times you see quarterbacks do that anymore so it's always going to be a little bit of faith it's always going to be important to go through the meeting process

give him information see how he absorbs it and things like that but you're you know you don't ever as we saw last year with Caleb as highly regarded as he was there's still some faith and hope involved here once you get these guys in the building because in college you're just not going to be asked

to do all that stuff. And I see you have been thrown out the Jalen Hertz comp. I threw that a route to some people. I will say Jalen Hertz as a runner in college was a little next level. Just saying as an athlete.

Oh, no, yeah, yeah. Of course, yeah. But if you look at a lot of the traits that they do share, they have the same type of a build. They're sturdy, strong guys. They're ultra, ultra competitive. They're not looking to run out of bounds.

Either one of them, they're going to fight you for yards. They each got better throughout their college career. Hertz was a son of a coach who the makeup and everything was off the charts, everything I've heard from Jackson. Dart from that standpoint, off the charts. So that's where the similarities with Hertz come in.

I see the vision. I think you got them in the right spot. It might be a little rich to take them too early. But if you're getting them at the back of the first round or the second round, that makes a lot of sense to try to develop them. Some cornerback moves. I saw Benjamin Morrison, not a guy. It's been getting a lot of pop moves up from quarterback seven to cornerback five.

but I actually wanted to ask you about Will Johnson. So he fell down one spot to 14. And he's someone I just wanted to ask a bigger picture question. While I got you, if you just went off his 2023 tape, I would guess he would be higher on this list. So how do you like evaluate a guy that was so electric a year ago? So you know it's there for him with maybe the tape he put out this year

that wasn't as good. Because to me, I don't know. I would go with last year's tape and just great off that. That's what I would do. No, and then Stingley would be the argument there, right? You know, because Stingley didn't see much of him as last year at LSU. And there were some questions and concerns about him from a tackling standpoint. A couple of those questions popped up this year with Will Johnson.

But, you know, to me it was a little bit of the collective of he's had some injuries throughout his career. I don't know. Stingley is a 4-3 guy. He doesn't have that type of juice, that type of. of top speed, but he's got, you know, the size, the length, the ball skills, the awareness, outstanding. And that's why he is where he is on my list. It's pretty darn high. I mean, he's a top 15 player on my board. But I do think you can't just throw out what you saw this year, which to me was, gosh, there's a couple times he got stretched vertically and I

had some questions about the speed. Now, he has a pro day scheduled for, I think a couple weeks from now. He go, and that's a big one for me, because if he goes out there and actually he runs and he puts anything in the 4-4s in there like that can that can be enough for me to kind of move him up a couple spots but that's my that's my lingering question that I have and I'm there I know there's a lot of people in the league that are that are believe it when they see it when he runs a 40 they're kind of like this is there's a lot of guys who have later pro days and then it's you know what I'm a little tight I'm going to do the field workout today no 40 so we'll see if he puts his hand on the line it runs April 14th is the Michigan

pro date. Yeah, I just keep hearing about in this class, like there's not these like blue, blue chip guys. He seems like a guy that at least has a chance maybe to be a blue-blue-chip guy. So maybe he gets thinking a little higher. Walter Nolan was a big riser, up to 28, up six spots, had a good workout, I believe. But we're out of time because we've got to

put you on the clock. It's back to on the clock. And I should have mentioned at the top that we're talking running backs today. I like a good theme of a show, so we're putting you on the clock talking running backs. And then after the break, we're going to talk to Maurice Jones-Drew and his running back rankings.

Did he show up? Is he here? Is he going to do it? There's been some negotiating behind the scenes. I knew there was an effort to get him. I didn't know that we reeled in the fish. I didn't know that happened. We do believe that he's going to be there.

I'm not sure he was totally aware the entire time. But we're going to put five minutes on the clock. And I'm just going to start with a question that the rest of the country doesn't know. And I'm sure there's some draft knicks out there that want to. I'm going to ask you about running backs outside the top 50 because this is a class that is believed to be so deep. That's what's so great. great about it. It's deep. And yet, you know, you got plenty in the top 50. You got four. But I'm curious about who's caught your eye. Give us a little preview of who you like outside

the top 50. First of all, I think I have five in the top 50, don't I? I'm not going to put you to the test on math. You're actually right. I forgot about Caleb Johnson is 45 along with the two Iowa states. Yeah, you got it. Man, can we get Gregor researcher? Just let's just assign a researcher to him. And let's give the guy some help. So guys, I like outside of that mix. I'll give you I'll give you some interesting names here. Dylan Samson is one I love from Tennessee. Like crazy, crazy production there. He ran, he's a little over 5-8, 200 pounds.

He ran low 4-4s, super twitched up. He plays fast. He can get skinny in the hole. He's got instincts. You know, he fumbled the ball four times. I like to see that clean up a little bit. And in past protection, still a little bit of a work in progress there. But just as a pure runner, I'm a big fan of him and what he brings to the game.

I think in that same tier you're talking about guys like Trevor E.T.N. from Georgia. Obviously, everybody knows the family name there at almost 5-9, almost 200 pounds, ran low 4-4s. He wasn't healthy all year. When you do see him out there and he is healthy, he's got some burst to him. He's got some bounce with the way he runs. He's got good vision and feel. He's a really, really good player. And a personal favorite of mine, who I'm curious to see where he goes.

and I'm curious to see what our guest thinks of him because I'm an R.J. Harvey guy out of Central Florida at 5-8, 205 pounds, ran 4-4 flat. I wrote my notes. He's like a mix of Toreat Cohen as well as Devante Freeman. It's like they kind of squished him together. A guy who runs just load of the ground,

he can get away from him. He's got big time burst. They use him as a wildcat vision. He can catch the ball. You'll see him get out on wheels and really track the football. He just gets a little bit small and pass protection. but he is like of that group of guys

he might be my favorite guy to watch at that clump. Well you know FJD loves like a short running back so I'm sure he likes it and you could be doing some research by the way too he has his running back rankings out there and yeah he does have Harvey pretty high I'm totally with you I'm glad you like Dylan Samson

I was alerted a long time ago by our expert producer that there was a chance they were aiming to angling to bring in MJD and I like authentic podcast slash TV shows where I can be surprised, and I want to hear it first out of him.

I don't want to cheat the system here. That's outstanding. And you can hear it first for me. I'm so with you on Dylan Samson. Man, the way the instincts that kid runs with, I don't know, he's just got something. I know. In a great conference. Yeah, I know you didn't quite see the receiving, but like he seems like you could do that too.

He just seems like he has something there, so I am with you. The one question I want to ask about the top two backs, which Ashton Genty was incredible. It was fun to finally, like, go through it and see. how incredible his balance is just so impossible to get him on the ground. Can't get him. Right. Even when you tackle him, you can't get him on the ground. The play just ends. He's out of bounds, but he's standing up, but he's still standing up and he's electric. And I thought Amari and Hampton, I usually don't like the big backs like that who aren't going to make you miss, but man, he was special too. So to me, those are the big two and it's a pretty big drop-up. I think Hampton is outstanding. And according to your rankings, you agree with me. The only question I have about the two of them, are you at all concerned about the huge workloads? that they had last year? Because if you were in the NFL and you had the workloads that those two kids had, you'd be a little worried coming back the next year. Is there, is there any concern that that they took a lot of juice out of these kids to, to have the amount of carries and the,

in the receiving that they had a year ago? A couple things. Let's start individually here. Let's go Gentie. First of all, I kind of like the fact that he wasn't in the, you know, in the Big Ten or the SEC. So even though he was getting a lot of workload and a lot of touches, I don't think he was getting hit like he would have got hit in those conferences um obviously he's built like a you know what brick house um so he's he's and he doesn't take because of the way he's built and how he's so compact he doesn't take a lot of big shots um so to me that's you know i think he's kind of built for that now again are we talking about we get the second contract discussions that's we'll see time will tell nobody can worry about that now but i'm going to have a heck of a run for the next five years i can

tell you that. I don't think you'll have any trouble staying healthy. And then Hampton, I'll just give you one nugget on him. I talked to the folks where he trained in the pre-draft process. And I asked him, I said, with all this workload, they said he came in and they do a full medical checkup on them because they want to get these guys in the system. They said, this guy did not have a hang nail. Like, he's a freak. Like his body, after all that, he showed up and he was like he had just taken two years off. Like, there was nowhere in terror. That is exactly five minutes. You nailed it on the clock. And I'm with. you. You know what you want to see out of those guys? If Genti's playing against lower

competition, you could say Hampton's doing the same. Hampton looked like a man amongst boys. He looked like the best player on the field in so many of those games. And I wanted to watch the Genti playoff game too, thinking like, oh, they held him down a little. He was the best player on the field in that game too, even though they lost. He might only got eight yards on some those, but he had to go through five guys to get those eight yards. It was an impressive game. Yeah, I get it. And I love that we're back in the NFL in a place where running backs actually will get taken in the first round. I think those two, at least. least. Well, let's take a quick break. We're going to come back. We're going to talk to

more East Jones, Drew, about his rankings, about his mock draft, about his favorite running backs in just a minute. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, Talk to decision makers and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow.

We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig into coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a die-hard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box, score this podcast is for you don't miss it listen to the move the six podcast on the iheart radio app apple

podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts hey this matt jones i'm drew franklin and this is nfl cover zero we're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different did you see the colts pretzel that was my other big takeaway from that what was that oh my we think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more.

I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. It's a great, easygoing guy that likes to have fun and just, you know, hang out with friends. I have a dog and, you know, a puggle. A lot of people don't know about those yet, but I have a puggle and, you know, just like to hang out and just relax. It's a puggle. It's a mix between a pug and a beagle, so it's pretty weird.

But a lot of people starting to get them now, so I think I started to trend. Yeah, maybe. You know, trendsetter. Try it. Is that the first time you ever said a trend or you always been a trend setter? You know, I try to set a trend to L.A. with the Dredds. It's not really working too well right now, but I think it might come in a little bit later, so. Oh, that is Boris Jones true.

I've never seen that before. That is from 2006. That's our guest. That was his first interview at the Combine with the NFL Network. Who knew he would be working with us all those years later? did you make the dreads a trend like they're no longer there obviously we see our our colleague and co-worker mike rob have dreads so i feel like you know it kind of went a little more national we we thought it was just going to be an LA thing and it kind of blew up to more of a national thing

so uh it is what it is you know the puggle the puggle thing blew up though the puggle thing like i want to say i've never heard of a puggle dude it was like crazy it was crazy i think she saw that interview was like, let me see what there's little things about. It wasn't the prettiest dog, but you know how, like, pretty people get ugly dogs. Is this like the Parasel and like Nicole Richie days? Yes. Like, is this like those days? Okay.

Those days. And so we were trying to, because I was the handsome guy that I had to have a puggle to balance out. He was ugly. So I was handsome and made, it created balance. But that's what you're bringing to the show. DJ said I'm bringing a personality. That's what I bring to the show. Not, not analysis or good looks.

Loose. Loose definition. personality on that one, by the way. MJD, one of my favorite people at NFL Network. We do the games for the international audience on Monday night, but he is a running back through and through. He's a running back expert and the assignment desk put him on the case to make some running back ranking.

So we're just going to talk running backs. It's kind of the running back show, Maurice, but we're going to put up the four guys that you said were day one starters for this draft. That's Ashton Janty, no surprise there. Travion Henderson from Ohio State. Quintan Junkin's, his teammate from Ohio State, all guys that are in DJ's top 40. And then a little bit of a surprise here.

Cam Scataboo as the fourth guy on your list. And you actually have him ranked ahead of Judkin. So let's just have a Scataboo conversation. It's been too long. Like, why is he in that tier for you? So two things. Being from the Bay Area, I have a lot of friends that know him, that have watched him when he was at Sack State

that kind of followed his career from the North Bay all the way to Arizona State. And everyone was like, you got to watch this kid, you got to tell us about him. So I tried to hold off because you don't want the outside influence. But when you turn on the tape, he's just a pure football player, period point blank. There's nothing about his game that you don't like.

Obviously, he doesn't have the long speed, but you can see this right there, the short area quickness, the contact balance, the competitive spirit. He finishes every run. He's tough to tackle. And then listen to this, DJ. This is the one thing I've always tried to tell people.

Look at the college playoffs. Which teams had success, right? The ones that had tough running backs, and you look at this, this dude here took over the Texas game. I mean, who doesn't want this? I just, like, and this is not even looking at anything else. Just watching tape, I found myself late at night watching Scatabo tape. That play right there is really what kind of took me over the top,

the way he finishes runs. I mean, it's just he can play in any system. that you want him in. He doesn't again. The long speed is a concern, but to me, he can go to anywhere and start right now, be a third down back, pick up blitzes, everything you need to looking for. I want to jump on this, MJD.

So I'm going to give you something to aid your argument here. So they, question, did Arizona State win their conference, the Big 12th? I have no idea. They did, they did. They won the conference. They made the playoff. They almost knocked out Texas.

Do you know how? How many of Cam Scataboo's teammates got Combine invitations? Zero. One man band. And he almost, they almost took down Texas. If they don't get a fourth down conversion late in that game, they move on.

They take out Texas. And literally, I don't know if I've ever seen a team, especially with this new, obviously is new with this new playoff, but as competitive as college football is, and as much as, you know, the powerhouse programs have been able to coalesce talent,

Like, we've never seen it like this. You see it in the final four right now. Like, this was a one-man band. They had one combine imitation. It was him. And he almost bowled his way through the Texas Longhorns with a stacked roster. That's a big feather in his cap for sure. Well, the other part is this, too.

He could catch the ball out of the backfield. He can run routes like a wide receiver. Like I said, he does everything. And I guess watching all these running backs, watching his tape, I've talked to probably 12 running back coaches in the NFL. and they all look at me crazy. But then when they go and watch the tape, they're like, this is the type,

this is what you're looking for in a running back, right? This is the vision, the short area of quickness, the ability to break tackles, to push guys forward, finish forward. Everything that you want in a running back, Scada bow has. I agree. Like the creativity, the vision,

like he makes space, I think more than some of the guys that are ranked highly. I'm with MJD. I'm breaking the, the tie here. I would put him over Trayvionn-Henderson. I would put him over Quintchard Junkins. And I know you look at them and you think they're maybe bigger, faster, stronger. You can't say that you're splitting the tie when MJD agrees with me and has

Travian-Henderson over Scatterbo. So you're losing. There's three boxes. Two of them have one guy, one has the other. You're on the wrong side. It doesn't matter. My point is that he is, he is up there like MJD has him in his top four. He has him as a true day one starter type of guy. You don't have them in the top 50. To me, I don't think he's going to go in the top 50. Yeah. I don't think he's going to go in the top 50. But I think he's a I think he's a really good player. He's just outside that for me. I think he's going to I think he's most likely going to go in the third round. And I agree that he does all those things well. He does not have the, the juice that you're going to see guys traditionally have that go in the top three rounds. It doesn't

mean he's not going to be a great player. He's like to me, he looks like James Connor if you left him in the dry or too long, MJD. Hey, so this is the thing. It's so funny. When I do the rankings, it's not about where they get drafted. It's about. Of course. Of course.

I think that's where it gets twisted because this is a draft show, right? So it's like, well, why don't you have a Morion Hampton this way? He's going to get drafted higher. He probably is going to get drafted higher. I actually have my unlocked draft going to Denver later in the thing. So it's not that the kid is just when you look at his tape, Scatabotabose tape, and you look at Hampton's tape, completely. different players, completely different players and a completely different running back to me

that I think Scatabo kind of just shows a little bit more. Now, you said Trayvion Henderson, listen, off of just past blocking, period, he's, he's almost his number one animal. Almost is number one. He's almost MJD. Sean Marion some dudes in that tape. Like he attacks dudes. Like I've seen guys, I've seen guys go between that guard and tackle gap. And then there's nowhere to be found after that. Like, they get, they get, and so I, again, like, before I do the ring, because I kind of call some of my mentors and old coaches and see, to a man, every coach that I talked to that watched his tape was like, he's number one on the board just off of pass blocking in general. Wow. Right? Because again, you got to protect the money.

You got to protect the quarterback. You know right away that he has the will. He has the want to and he knows where he's going with the, you've seen him scan. He'll scan back from right to left and pick up guys like that alone just off of not even touching the ball they were like he's he's a top guy on our board just because of that yeah i don't i don't think he's as creative like making guys miss but he's good enough he's big fast drunk like i get it why he's a home run hitter right would be so high and yet home run hitting i feel like it's a little overrated it's a lot about it doesn't have the long speed that that comes up a handful of runs every year and it's nice if your guy can go 65 and like like mjD used to do instead

a 40, but you're happy with that 40. And the guys that you say don't get taken in the first three rounds a lot of times, like a Kyron Williams, or I guess he went third round, but not early. Those are the guys that are more effective on a down-and-down basis, and that's why I like scat-goe. I also think, though, to me, I think it's become more important to have some juice. And I think that to me, when you see as much too high safety stuff, and it's not, I know, Greg, you're talking about, okay, turning a 40 into a 60.

Now, with two high safeties, I'm talking about turning a four into a 12. Like just like those yards, if you got somebody that can go get them right now, I think there is value in having guys. And I think Jemir Gibbs, obviously, what he's meant to the lions has everybody's trying to, and it easier said than done. But people are trying to find that. They're trying to find that type of juice and burst to add into their offense, knowing we're going to get these lighter boxes and stuff.

So I don't want a guy to kind of plow his way through and get me five yards. I think these guys can can make up for some of the explosives on missing in the passing game because they put a roof on everything. that that's a that's a good point you have a future in this business i i like that point you kind of convinced me uh mjd though by the way by the way one quick well hold i'm cutting you off because i want to ask mjd one thing because i'm always looking for new scout terms so when pass protection like when he hits guys you'll hear guys always say like it was a yard sale right you know like the earpiece going all like you guy just he just hits him it looks like a yard sale

with him i watched it and i was like i can't even say this in report because it can't explain it but i'm like it looks i don't it looks like the when he hits guys it looks like the matrix It looks like, oh, my God, just kind of like blow. Whichever kid, I don't even know what team it was. It might have been like a purple. I don't even know. It was some guy ran in between the B gap. And you had showed it on like Instagram.

And he hit this kid. And I was like, someone go check on him. Like, and the kid, he got up and he kind of did his thing. But he took football. That's a great, this is a great term that they say, you take a little football out of people when you hit him a certain way. Trayvon Henderson takes football out of kids every time he pass blocks

I mean like you're not going to rush the same way you're not going to blitz with the same intent you're going to be looking for him as as you again like he's coming and you can't see him from all these these big linemen that he comes out of nowhere and he's just like it's like oh so I don't know man

I love that part of his game like I said before that alone almost had him up their tier with Jente obviously where did you I know Greg I'm hijacking you here, but I know we're probably supposed to get into this. I'm going to go off, but where did you have him go in your mock?

There you go. I don't know. See, see, and I honestly, and I'm sure you'll probably get some blowback on that, it feels a lot like Jamir Gibbs where like, I had him ranked and I'm like, gosh, I love Trayvon and Henderson, he's for me, where is he, Greg? You probably have my list. He's

probably like early 30s. But if we woke up on the day after the draft and he was the 10th pick, like I wouldn't, that wouldn't shock me at all. Okay, so I'm going to break some news for you. I'm not saying that they're going to do that or not, but the running back coach for the Chicago Bears texts me in the middle of the night all the time about certain people.

And we've had a good 30-minute conversation about his blitz pickup. And that certain running back coach was Eric Bien to me who coached me in college. And his number one rule was, if you can't block, you can't play. So I can tell you right now. No block. Yeah, no blocky, no rocky. and we're just showing his ability here to make guys miss and his patience

and he has all that good stuff. But I've talked to a bunch of running back coaches from all teams, college coaches. Everyone talks about his past pro. And to me, we know in the NFL, look, there's one thing to be able to do something with the ball, but where you really separate yourself in the NFL is what you do without the ball.

And that ability to protect Caleb Williams. Again, a lot of my mock draft was about protecting the quarterback or helping the quarterback. well, if you're talking about Caleb Williams who got sacked a gazillion times, people who were blitzing them, you put a running back in that you know and wants to go and willing to go and pick up blitzes, you got a good third down back than going and step in right away for you.

As they like to say, Greg, that's the last butt between you and the defense is the running back. So I prefer him to be able to block. I mean, you could see that he's going to have a role right away. You've got to be worried a little bit, MJD. If Eric Bienomi listens to 40s and free agents, whether you're still going to be getting these texts late at night. Oh, it's all good.

I mean, that's my guy. You know, we were at UCLA. It didn't work out. I'm really sad about that, but he's still, you know, a guy that I lean on a lot. There's a couple others. I won't say any more names. But there's a couple others that I lean on a ton when it comes to the running back position. So if they take him 10, that would be interesting.

He did have some nagging injuries. He was never the guy at Ohio State was always sharing the workload. so you haven't seen that. And where I disagree with you the most on your rankings, MJD, and I like that you're not trying to be like the consensus. You're clearly just saying what you believe. And that's more accurate for, I think, how evaluators are around the league. There's a lot more disagreement than I think we see in some of these consensus boards and everything.

But you have Hampton buried fairly low. And DJ was talking about how you need some juice at the position. And I look at Amari and Hampton. And I think, man, it's not always the type that I love, but you see it. I could see him going number 10 to the Bears because that, to me, looks more like a guy with next level ability as a runner. And he made some of those opponents in the ACC look like children among men. And he was the man. No, listen, I tell people all the time again, this isn't, those rankings are just what I see and how I see it.

I know he had a great season. but it's tough when you see a fellow running through gaping holes a lot, and a lot of it is scheme-based, right? My concerns with Hampton was just his start and stop. He's a guy that has to be on the track. And when he's on the track, he's going to be tough to tackle. When he has to stop his feet, it's hard for him to kind of get back going again. It reminds me a lot of Derek Henry.

And the reason I want people to understand this, I had Derek Henry ranked high because Derek Henry was 6'4, 250 pounds, ran a 4-5. And when he's on this track, Derek Henry is hard to stop. But if you ever notice, when people get around his feet and he has to stop his feet, he gets tackled very easily. And I saw a lot of that with Hampton. And again, it's not to knock what he's doing. It's just the NFL is such a start-stop league, especially at the running back position with stunts

and the way defenses are firing and blitzing and doing different things. You just have to be able to start and stop a little bit more. And again, if you get with the team that, you know, if he goes to the Broncos, Sean Payton did a great job with Mark Ingram, who was very similar. where you get him downhill, you get them rolling a little bit, that goes. But it was just, for me, it was a start and stop that really hampered me to have him at number seven. How would you compare him personally to Jonathan Taylor when he was coming out? So I had Jonathan Taylor.

I had him at six. I had Jonathan Taylor at six. And people thought I was crazy. But again, it's about the system fit that you have to go to. Jonathan Taylor looked at that's point. He went to the Colts. They had a great offensive line. Jonathan Taylor, when he stops his feet, not as good

compared to some of the other guys. He's a crease. He's a crease runner. Right. Exactly. And so when you get him to where he doesn't have to stop, he's one of the best. But I don't know what team is going to draft him.

I don't know where he's going to go. And if you're just watching the tape, you're saying, look, do we have the offensive line to create holes? Or like what kind of, what is it? Again, when he's on his track, no one's tackling him. It's just when he has to stop his feet or like a guy

flashes in front of him, he's easier to tackle. Right. I think you have to be special to be an exception and be that style of back and make it work. But he looks like he could be in that category where he is the exception. You had defenders just bouncing off him at time. And I thought he was pretty good at picking a hole. But like if he lands with a team like the Rams, like I could see him like Todd Gurley running down the field. Not that he would. I don't think the Rams are looking for a running back, but that style of offense. I was looking at him with the other LA team as a compliment to Najee because they want to play physically.

Those are two physical backs, but two different backs. Yeah. But like if you want to lean on people and wear on people with, you know, with Alton McKay Beckton lining up next to each other, like let him, let those guys get creases. To me, it would be like you almost have Najee kind of body blowing people to death. And all of a sudden that crease, Hampton hits that crease and he's gone. Well, I, that's why I sent him to the Broncos.

I sent him to the Broncos just real quick, Greg, just because if you look at their running game, it's a lot of down. They have really, they're really strong interior guard to guard. You can kind of get him going and mow people down. And we know how it is in Denver. You have to have a good running game if you're the Denver Broncos. That's what you've had the most success. Even when they won their last championship with Peyton Manning,

C.J. Anderson was killing people, right? So if you can get a good running game going there, you have a great opportunity. And then obviously with Williams going to the Cowboys, I felt that was a good slot. Shout out to C.J. Anderson. I love a good random, like, Super Bowl run for a running back. How about Sony Michelle?

Yeah, you could have had Lamar Jackson in that draft. There were rumors for some reason the Patriots might take them. You passed on them. But Sony Michelle got you that last title, Bill Belichick. According to punditry, according to the punditry rules, the fact that Sony Michelle has a ring and Lamar Jackson doesn't. That's punditry rules now. That means that he's a better player than Lamar Jackson.

I'm not saying that. People that dog that pick, it worked out for that year. It was worth it. You got a ring. More to come on 40s in free agents back in a minute. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

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or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. We are back on 40s and free agents. No love for Caleb Johnson for you from Iowa, Maurice. This is the one top 50 guy that we haven't really talked about. You have them at 45 DJ. Another guy that might depend on the scheme a little bit.

If he gets in a zone scheme, seems like that would be a good fit. Well, again, I think that's the tier that you see guys in. When you're, when you, if you can't play in every system, you can't be explosive in every system, it's going to be tough. To me, this guy is Aaron Foster. That's who it is. Guess what? Aaron Foster went undrafted. Got with a great system.

system and became one of the best running backs that I had to compete against, came one of the top RBs in the NFL for multiple years. The thing that I have with Caleb is, there's just no change of pace, right? There's no, when he goes, it's the same pace throughout. There is no, like, if you watch R.J. Harvey or if you watch an Ashton Gentier, if you watch any of the guy Ohio State, there's a, there's a change of pace when they take off. With Caleb, it's kind of the same pace, which is great for the zone system. And I think, again, I've talked to a lot of coaches around the league and they all see the same thing. Like, he has a great job of being patient. His long stride, his style fits more of a zone system, which a lot of the league

runs, but not everyone. And so when everyone doesn't run it, you can't fit everyone's system. To me, you drop down a little bit. Two things for me, MJD. Number one, I love the fact, obviously, as you played and in this role now where you're having a do what you do on the scouting set of teams, which is rank teams, rank players. I think you, you appreciate it that when you don't have a scheme or a team and you're asked to stack players and then you can be held accountable for this player did well and this player didn't. I'm like, yeah, but I don't know the fit. Like that, that's not the right fit or this is a perfect fit for this guy. That's why he's going to do really well. That's one of the

challenges. I don't think that like the people from the outside that don't make rankings and Greg has to do it in free agency as well. That, and I'm not saying like, oh, just absolve us of every bad ranking we've ever had. That's not what I'm saying. But it is a challenge when you're not with a specific team when you're stacking players. No question. I mean, you just talk about Jonathan Taylor. I had people telling me how crazy I was that Jonathan Taylor was six. I go, he's playing at Wisconsin. And the size of this room I'm in, those are the kind of holes he was running through like five, six foot holes he's running through. And he has a MJD has a big house if you don't know. So that's a big room. But go ahead. But anyways, I'm just saying. And then so what if he went to New York,

where there weren't as big of holes or what if he went to the Jets where they struggled running the football, right? And then all of a sudden he goes to the Colts and everyone was like, well, you had him six.

Well, yeah, if I would have known he would have gone to the Colts, I would for sure put him in the top one or two because they had a great offensive line at that point, right? And so it's just one of those things,

like you said, you're trying to figure it out. But like I said, with Caleb, I thought he was very productive. The seeing the system fit him what he was doing. And if you're the NFL,

that's what you're going to look at. Like, does he fit our system? That's how we're going to rank, guys. I'm not going to put Caleb into a, you know, I don't know, a downhill Baltimore Ravens system. That may not fit what he does, right? He's more of an outside zone. He's going to press the hole cut. He's going to see the hole.

He has great vision. He has a great feel for finding the wave and following the double teams. And that's what you want to get them into. I mean, you better have a big house. What was that holdout for with the Jaguars if you don't? I mean, you earned it. My money's overseas. Greg, you know that.

That's true. What are all those late Monday nights for? There's two types of people in this world, Greg. There's the type of people that have to go get their hair cut, and there's a type of people that have them come to your house and cut your hair. I'm just saying, MJDs. I go to the shop every day. I go to the shop.

Oh, do you really? Yeah, I'm a shop guy. You see my line? Where is the shop on your property, by the way? Is that towards the back of the property? Yeah, I wish. I wish. We're supposed to talk about your mock draft, and we will.

But this is the only time we're going to get deep into the running back. on this show. And you have such a great eye for it. I could tell DJ is really lightning up when he has someone that he actually respects to talk to on this show. So let's talk about some of these running backs that you like that are pretty high on your rankings. DJ Giddins from Kansas State and R.J. Harvey from UCF. And you were excited about R.G. Harvey. You have them five and six on your rankings. So just give me a little flavor of why you like these guys. I mean, I don't know. Has anyone here ever driven a stick? Any of here ever driven a stick? Any of here ever driven a stick? Yes. My first three cars were all sticks. Yeah, yeah, me too.

Like, you know how you can control the car and you can slow it down and you can get it going if you want to race. Like I was like a young kid racing people in my little day woo that I had. Probably was like a V4, but I was making it sound like it was a V10. That's what R.J. Harvey is. He's a V10. Like when he gets going, it is see you later. And I got a chance to really watch him during the season because my agent was recruiting him. Obviously, he went with another guy. You know, my agent was sad about it. But when you watch his stuff, tape. Again, it's, it's about the tape, but I know we're going to show some B-roll here. When he gets going, when he decides to go, it is good night. And you talked about,

and DJ's talking about juice, that's all this is. You give him a scene and he's gone. He could catch the ball out of the backfield. He can run inside. He can run outside. He can make you missing a phone booth. He can do everything you want. Yeah, he's a smaller guy, and I get that. But again, there's a, there's a change of pace. Can we show some B-roll here? Do we have some B-roll of our RV just so we get do we not we don't have it. I don't know what kind of budget you think we're working with here on 40s of creation. I just saw the Caleb and all the job. Listen, when you watch his tape, it reminds me of just like he's like, okay. Just imagine it in your head. Just everybody just imagine what this is like. Industry trick here. MJD. If you don't say that, they can add it in

posts. And then it's also a podcast. I'm happy if you're checking us out on YouTube or you check us out on NFL network, but we got the most people listen to it as a podcast and you're ruining it by it. It's okay. Listen. Okay, so here, close your eyes while you're driving then since you want me to help you out. You can visualize this. Okay, imagine being in a Corvette and you decide to just step on the gas, right? You step on that gas, car's going to like kind of rev up and then go, right? He's not that. When he steps with the gas, it is no revving up. It's like he is taking off right now. He's off the line. He is rolling.

And so I've seen him make people shut it down, which to me is with DJ's point at the two high safeties, if you get a guy that I've seen, again, I call the games for the Rams. I've seen Kyron break 30-yard runs. Those 30-yard runs are going to go 90, right? Like, again, if you have the crease and he can find it and he can go, he's going to go 90 to the house. And that's what coaches want.

If you're a coach, I don't want to call any more plays. I want to be able to hand the ball off to you and you go 90 if possible. RJ Harvey Harvey has it. And then Giddens on the other side, I put on his tape. He was a little banged up throughout the year. I think he had like a wrist or a hand or something. But I've never seen anyone at his size, stop and start and make people miss like he does on a consistent. He is slippery at that size.

Like a guy will be coming full speed and he'll just slam on the brakes. And then he'll just take off again. Like, again, the stop and start to me is what the NFL has become. If you watch Saquan Barkley in a lot of his long runs, a lot of people, them are stopping start like he'll stop then he'll explode out and he'll be gone and so uh to me when you look at getins he just has that suddenness where like a guy's coming he can make you miss at the last second to me uh that's special i think he ran a four four 40 or something around there he ran four four three four four three two hundred and twelve house he knows he has a speed he has the

ability to stop and start like man and then again and i don't like to knock colleges but i don't know who was at Kansas State this year, I really have no idea because I was just watching the running backs. But it wasn't like he was running through gaping holes. Like he was sliding through holes and making people miss. And so to me, when you watch that, I've gotten into some disagreements with some scouts that I know that I've grown up with or played with. And they're like, oh, man, I'm like, listen, I don't care what you're talking about. To make a person miss at full speed is incredible. Not many people can do it. And this guy hasn't. Is his last name of color, by the way, the person you're

referencing um anyway the uh uh i i'm already inside mjd's head i know who he's talking about who he's referencing so i just kept that on the d but uh to me the interesting thing about him to mjd is he's kind of he's a little upright but a lot of times you get upright guys they're stiff he's a loose fluid upright runner who's able to kind of his slithery can make you miss uh which is an unusual combination when you watch him yeah i mean i thought of um i don't even know who there was a I was just trying, like you said, when I look at most guys of like high cut and kind of like they run straight up and down. Linear. They're linear guys. Yeah, linear guys, right? Not the guys that can move and, you know, flow like some of us. But anyways, to see him the, like I said, it's a certain things that you see and like a word pops up, you rarely hear sudden, but that's what you hear with him like that. And then he's off going somewhere else. And then he's making guys miss. And again, I think.

Again, in the right system, I don't know what system that would be, but he could be a real valuable player for a big team. Yeah, I hear you on Harvey, by the way, too. I think he would be a fun fit in one of those schemes where it's a lot of RPO's and you have a running quarterback. And you combine him with the Jets maybe. They don't use a running backer. You combine him with Justin Fields and what they're trying to do.

Or the commanders, if they wanted to look at kind of a long-term echo they replace and you put him with Jane Daniels, that would be explosive. Let's get to the mock. Let's talk a little bit of the mock. You have a lot of surprising picks here, and I like it. MJD, he knows what matters in mock season. It's getting a little attention for the mock. And he puts Tet McMillan at number five for the Jaguars.

He has Shudor Sanders, number three, to the Giants. Travis Hunter falls all the way to seven to the Jets, which would be interesting. Trayvion Henderson, we mentioned before at 10. Mbou falls to the Saints at number nine, which they would absolutely love. But since you're Mr. Jaguars. And I don't know if you still have a lot of moles inside that building, but you are Mr. Jaguar. You know, they've had a regime change.

I'm guessing you do. That's the pick I go to just as a consumer immediately. Oh, who does MJD have going to the Jaguars? Interesting you have Ted McMillan going there. Well, if you look at Liam Cohen where he came from, right? He came from Tampa, where they had Godwin and Mike Evans. Well, you already have Brian Thomas Jr. who has that jump ball six five big frame you saw how they used mike evans and to me this is

all about Trevor Lawrence it's to me this pick is all about putting players around Trevor up there goes to be roll see that's crazy as they either here they're there but this pick is all about Trevor and getting Trevor and making him the most comfortable that you can make them you let all these guys is Christian Kirk is gone you have all these different things put a playmaker around them and let's watch this young head coach call plays with all these new toys and this new weapon and make them better. I mean, let's be honest, the Jags have been close, but this is the time now for you to take the top off with two explosive players that I believe could really change the trajectory of the Jaguars. Yeah, what about him though? Give me him, give me reasoning

on him over Travis there. Why not just make Travis your receiver and take him there? Well, I think Travis is a luxury, right? I think he's a luxury when, and again, when you talk about being the best player, you can play offense and defense, but that size is hard to come by, right? Again, in the NFL, there's not many six, four corners, right? There's not many six, two corners.

So to have a guy that's legitimately six, five, that you could throw jump balls to in the red zone, that you can do some different things. To me, it just, it just, it just, it made more sense to see the Mike Evans' cop and kind of picture what Tampa was like last year with Baker where Baker threw 40 touchdowns to see that kind of comp go with Liam Cohen because that's what he was. That's where he was.

Like if the Patriots pass on Travis Hunter and then the Jaguars and the Raiders pass on Travis Hunter, what are we doing here, people? They all need them. And this is the thing. When you look at the Raiders and, again, a team that I grew up loving and I played for, we know what Pete Carroll wants. they want a physical running game. They have a great weapon in Brock Bowers already.

You brought in Gino Smith. They don't have a running game. And Pete Carroll out of everybody, he loves to run the football and play defense. And so that's why I went there. The only thing with the Patriots, and again, this is the problem when you have a corner receiver

that can do a little bit of everything. Someone has to protect the quarterback. Like, let's remember, Drake May was running around for his life last year. And I know the tackle, from LSU has short arms or that's what he was saying he's a short arm guy whatever it may be but listen you have to protect your quarterback like I would love to have Travis Hunter but what's the purpose of getting him if I can't get him the football last year like calling games for Dreg May well again

the Rams played the Patriots he was running around either the ball was getting out in the two-step drop which I've never seen before or he was scrambling around like a chicken with his head cut off eventually we got to protect our guy well one of the things I do when I'm doing the charger games and getting ready for it. I study the offensive line and I try and I try and circle the guy of like this is the mark. Like this is the guy that, okay, let's see where they want to move, you know, whoever it is, Khalil Mack, Bose, whoever they want, this is the guy to attack. When I did the Patriots game, I was like, well, wherever you want, there's a lot,

there's a lot of points of entry here along this offensive line. So I get what you're saying. I think in the ideal Patriots world, you would trade back though. Like you want to get either Campbell, Membu, whoever, but let's get some extra value. Let's trade back a little bit, not necessarily have to do it there. But MJD's not going to do all the trades. I mean, he didn't need to get that complicated.

Listen, I'm trying to, I try to do a little bit here and there. I can't do the double trade where the Texans trade up. They're at two and they trade up to three and they pick the top two guys and get it right. I just can't do that. That takes a lot to do it. You know, my mock draft is more of based on I'm looking at the team. I'm looking at what they did last year and then where's their need. And again, Travis Hunter, I think.

is probably the top receiver. I just think that when you have a coach that played with two big giants like he did in Tampa, Tet just matches more of what Mike Evans was. And when you see how, like, it just reminds me when Liam Cohen threw the little five-yard route

to get Mike Evans his thousand yards to keep it going, right? Did you see how excited everyone was? Like, did you see how, and that, when you bring human nature into it, it's like, okay, you see these two giants running down the field. you don't think that'll help your quarterback to become better.

And so to me, that's kind of what I was thinking with the T-MAC version. Plus, I know T-MAC. I coach against T-MAC and high school. I'd love for T-MAC to come to the Jags and get us right. Yeah, looking at some of the rest of the market. Just getting to it. Eventually, MJD is going to park that car, you know, and that was where it landed right there.

He'd known him since he was a kid. Go ahead. Yeah. So at least he's talking about his biases openly. one of my biases is telling DJ he's got Mason Graham too high. So I like that. You didn't even have them in your top 10 in the mock. And no Kenneth Grant.

Apparently you hate Michigan. Jaday Barron is 31st overall. That's interesting. And then we did notice a trend. I do have a small research department, and they came up with the trend that there was a lot of similar picks between you and DJ's mock draft. A lot of copying. 12 picks actually were I said in the car.

I know you've been traveling around the world. You don't got the LSU tackle's name here. So I don't blame you, MJD, but we just notice 12 picks are the same. Listen, I'm not going to cheat, you know, but also at the same time, it's like, that does make sense. And I think that's what a lot of those were. Like, I didn't really go mock draft fire, fire. I wanted to make sense. You used to go heavy running back, man.

You kind of backed. Yeah, I've voted down a little bit because. You know, the comments start to get to you after a couple years. You know, it says it doesn't bother them. They all say it doesn't bother them, and they jump in. Again, I agree. It bothers me. But there was a run I think I did with edges late and then late.

And I kind of, to be honest, working for the Rams, I have no idea who the Rams are going to take. Like, I don't know who's going to be there. If T-Mack falls and, yeah, that's awesome. Like, I have no idea. But when we got there, when I got to the Rams, I was like, I have no idea who's available and who they're going to take. And so I just like, hey, go with edge rusher again. Forget it.

Like get another edge rusher. Why not? Like, you can never have enough of those. And I think that's kind of where, you know, you saw some of the similarities go on some of those teams. It's just a chance. It's just a random. I mean, come on. That's just a random chance.

MJD knows the beauty of a mock draft. My son used this term, which I had never heard before, but apparently it's very popular. Greg, I think we talked about this before. but I turned in my first mock draft this year he goes, you put any rage bait in there? And I was like, excuse me? Rage bait.

Like you got to get some rage bait in there that gets everybody all stirred up. So MJD knows. There's about four. You need about four. Like the Jets. Jets and Travis Hunter, that's a week worth of content

for the New York market. I mean, that's, that's, name is out there. Your name is out there for a while. It's got to blow up. I mean, Schrador Sanders to the Giants,

even though after they, you know, even though I did this mock draft two weeks ago, I finished it two weeks ago. and it's just now being published. You know, this is before James and Russell. But Chador, like Prime said,

Shadour with James and Russell, that prayer is going to be amazing. I can't wait to get the glimpses of that. Competition all over the place. I can't wait. I'd love to see Brian Dable manage that group, but it would be a great landing spot for him. And, yeah, rage bait.

Like, MJD has been doing rage bait since before that was a term. MJD's entire life walking around is, rage bait. We're in a studio named for my friend Chris Wessling. And I remember the first few times he met MJD. He's like, what's up with this guy? This guy's a jerk. Like, because MJD is got to give the business to everyone. Six minutes, you know, six months later, a year later, we're great buddies with MJD and he thinks he's a great guy. But rage bait is basically how MJD lives. It's called competition, right? And some people are nice to their competition, right? DJs. Some people, like, we're all open to arms. Like, come on for the, like me, I got to see what

you're made of first before I can really let you into the group, right? And Greg over, you know, Greg almost got kicked out of the group this year, just so you know, we almost kicked Greg out of the Monday night group because Greg never wanted to show up until he needed me and Bridget, or he needed myself and Bridget to kind of join and do one of his podcast. Then he magically showed up to do a show on Monday. So just remember, Greg only used you until he needs you. Oh, this is complete nonsense. But the running back analysis was pretty awesome. It was great adding another great into the mix.

Thank you, Maurice. Thank you, DJ. We will be back next Thursday with another episode of 40s and Free Agents. We are getting close to the NFL draft us a few episodes left before the big day. The NFL is rolling. That's right, and you should be listening to NFL Daily as we march along to Super Bowl 60. It's in the name, NFL Daily, so you'll have fresh content in your feed all season long. Join me, Greg Rosenthal, in an all-star cast of co-hosts for previews and recaps of every single game.

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