NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - 40's and Free Agents: Standout Prospects with Ollie Connolly

Episode Date: April 7, 2026

On this episode of 40s and Free Agents, Daniel Jeremiah and Gregg Rosenthal are joined by Ollie Connolly to highlight standout prospects in the 2026 Draft and take a closer look at some of the most intriguing names to know. They start with a discussion of Fernando Mendoza, breaking down both the positives and negatives in his evaluation and explaining why he still ranks above Ty Simpson. DJ then shares his perspective on the concept of “shrinkage” and how it applies when scouting young quarterbacks. The conversation then shifts to Arvell Reese and Caleb Downs, with a focus on their strengths and the impact they could make at the next level. Ollie also reveals his favorite Day Three prospect, followed by DJ’s pick for a top value name to watch later in the draft.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Welcome to 40s and Free Agents. I am Greg Rosenthal with the best draft analyst in the business. But who am I talking about? Daniel Jeremiah, of course. But for the first time on 40s and free agents this season, we're introducing a guest,

Ali Connolly. You might know him from NFL Daily and his read-optional substack. DJ, give a welcome to another draft analyst. You don't have to be the only one. First of all, I thought for sure you're just going to go straight in that direction. That would have been, it was all set up on a T for you. But no, I'm stoked to have Ali on here. It's fun to get a chance to chat about these guys and to talk about some way that

talk to someone personally that I haven't had a chance to visit with on this subject because a lot of times you get hung up on the same debates and the same conversations when you're talking to the same people. So excited to have you, man. Thanks for coming. Delighted to be here. I like that Greg did not have the guts just say. He knew in his soul.

I can't say that with any sincerity. clarity that I can out, right, DJ? You are my two favorites, though, and that was why for this episode, we're getting closer and closer to the actual draft. I thought it'd just be fun for me personally. This is very selfish. Just throw some jump balls in the air and listen to two of the smartest guys in the business kind of bat around a few names.

And one thing we haven't done weirdly, DJ on this show, is talk about quarterbacks even a little. So I just thought that would be a fun place to start because I haven't really heard you talk in depth. Obviously, you have Fernando Mendoza number one. But I'd like to hear you two guys talk about him a little bit about what you think like he does well. And if there is a concern, like where are that concerned? Yeah, sure. I mean, look, there's no perfect players ever in this draft as well.

So I have Mendoza is my top guy. I have him as a top quarterback. I have him as a top player. The things that you like, some of them are the obvious things. I mean, he's right now he's about 240 pounds. He's 6'5. He's a big, big, strong dude. He's durable.

He's tough. He's smart. All the stuff you get off the field in terms of the focus, the work ethic, all that stuff is excellent. Then on the field, I thought, you know, when you watch him, he's a, he's more of a drive thrower than a layer thrower. Like there's different styles of how you throw a football. Like, if you think about Herbert, how Herbert throws, Herbert's a power thrower more than a layer

thrower, whereas like Matthew Stafford, maybe one of the few guys who can, you know, live in all worlds and do all that stuff equally well. You know, like Brock Purdy, we get to Ty Simpson. That's more, that's how he throws a ball a little bit more. He can get up and down, layer throws. But he's a power drive thrower. One of the criticisms on him is that he's a little bit robotic. If you go back and look at, you know, my notes on Herbert when he was coming out,

you'd see some of the same, you know, lines in there about being, okay, well, is he a little bit too robotic because he just play a little more loose. Could we free him up a little bit? But he's been great late games. He's been great third downs, red zone. All that stuff has been excellent. So, you know, it took a billion sax when he was at Cal playing on a bad team. That got a lot better this year. And Ali, I'll hit you on this one too. But like in my conversations with Orlovsky, a lot of it is he's talking about, you know, what the offense is and what they're asking him to do. And I've tried to tell Dan, at least my opinion of and my experience of, it is you got to be careful not grading systems and what players are asked to do.

That Indiana team had a very specific formula to win games, which was we have a really good defense. We're going to stay in games. Hey, if you have to take a sack or throw the ball away, let's not live dangerously in the first three quarters of these games. And then they kind of open him up a little bit later for him to make big throws. So that's kind of a scattershot view for me on Mendoza. Yeah, I'm not going to ding a guy for playing in a system where the system boat

race to everyone on the way to National Championship. I'm good with him just operating the system. I care about how they operate the system, and he operated at the highest possible level you could ever imagine. And I'm not going to get too caught up on a guy where you complain about some of the middle field pros and some of the work at the intermediate level, where I think you see the translatable skills with the anticipation,

some of the touch, some of the feel, some of the timing, throwing those deep comeback, throwing more difficult throws in terms of timing and rhythm, deep outside the numbers on the road in UG, tough weather, tough situation, and just shredding people 17, 18 yards down the field with timing on these deep breaking comebacks. I feel that level of precision, the level of tenacity,

the toughness will carry over to be able to make all the throws all over the field. I do think there's fair criticism about some of the roboticism. I think to look at the guys he's going to be compared to whether it's Matt Ryan, whether it's Jared Goff, some of these guys who play more as pocket distributors, there is more nimbleness to their game. operate in that sticks, slide, climb, throw, and there's a rhythm and a feel to kind of navigate around pressure within the flow of an offence, staying within the flow of the concept.

I do think he's a little bit more mechanical, and I don't think he's got quite the elastic arm, someone like a goff has, be able to really kind of navigate around, find little windows and kind of get it out to the perimeter quickly if it's not all lined up for him. So there are some things I think are a bit concerning in terms of the translatable skills to an NFL offense, and if you had seen him operate more of what Ryan Group was doing at Alabama, you could just kind of check it off the box. So I think there's a little bit of projection in there. And we know what system is playing in.

It's not like we're guessing what system is going to go to. It's going to be more of a movement stretch-based system, having to pepper to the middle of the field. So I think there's some fair concerns with that, but I would bet on the toughness, the smarts the intellect any day. I find it hilarious that there's a report. They already have Brian Greasy,

who was with Kubiak in San Francisco, essentially installing the Raiders' office. You know where that came from, Greg? No. Where? You? Yeah. Yeah.

So here's the thing. And I'll clear that up too because he's been training with Brian Greasy. And the way I said was he's learning, he's learning the Raiders offense. Well, it's not like the Raiders are hiring Brian Greasy to teach Mendoza. Brian Greasy worked in that offense. He knows that offense inside now, literally kind of grew up in that offense. So he's had a chance when you're training with somebody to then instead of just working on certain things, like we can start. I can start teaching you the concepts and some of the verbiage and things like that because he's

going to know it from his time. Him and Kubiak were together, I believe, in San Francisco at one point time on that staff. So, yeah, that was my, that was, I was on McAfee. And they asked if there was any, if I thought there was any, you know, possibility that he wasn't the first overall pick. And I just kind of flippantly said, well, I don't know, he spent it a lot of time with Brian Greese. I think he's learning the, you know, learning the Raiders offense.

I don't think he's too worried about going anywhere else. I mean, I'm not trying to get you in trouble. But yeah, I mean, these are all a grown man, grown men adults. Like, he knows what's happening. It's smart to do. I don't want to spend the whole time on Mendoza and the quarterbacks, but just before we go, like I would like DJ you to compare him maybe like where he would rank, you know, compared to like a Bo Nix and a J.J. McCarthy or even in a Cam Ward.

Because from the outside, not, you know, I see what a lot of good things, the things that I'm a little worried about was you're saying, okay, maybe some questions against pressure, not being as good with pocket movement, which is my number one thing. And then a lot of fumbles and turnover worthy plays at Cal. And now I think that should count for something. So that's a tough combination. Like where does that make him rank kind of with the other quarterbacks you've had near the top? Well, first of all, I don't know that there was a quarterback who played anywhere near as bad a group as he had at Cal.

Like if we're talking about any of these top tier quarterbacks. I mean, Cam Ward's group at Washington State would look like the, you know, the Washington Redskins line of the 80s and 90s, if you compared to what he was playing with at Cal. So you had bodies on you before you even got to the top of your drop there. So I don't really hold that against him. And there's, you know, I would say this. He's kind of a clunky robotic athlete.

But like if you want to throw him on the move, he can throw on the move either side. He can throw right or throw left. It's going to be more of kind of the reactionary movement. But the thing that he can do is he's so big and he's so strong that you'll see him. can absorb contact and still throw the ball and throw it accurately. So he plays big in there. He doesn't, he's not someone who's a statue who's stuck and can't move at all. He just going to be able to, he can throw, you know, within confined spaces. Whereas other guys, I feel like you, if you can't move and you get a little bit small, like the difference between him and golf,

to me, golf would still need a little bit of space, a little bit of room. I don't think this kid does. I think he's got more horsepower with his arm and I think he can generate that without necessarily having the foot space there. So in terms of who I compare him to, I mean, I have a higher grade on him that I had on Cam Ward. And Cam Ward was, you know, the top quarterback last year. I had a higher grade on him at Bow Nix. I mean, he's not in the class of the big three from a couple years ago.

I had I had Caleb, Drake, and then Jaden. All three of those guys had higher grades in Mendoza for me. But I had him a higher grade than Cam Ward. Totally different players, but I had a higher grade. Right. You, Ali, I saw you at one point, which was intriguing, just like, maybe it was just more size-wise, but what he's got to learn compared him a little bit to Ben Rathesburg. Yeah, size-wise.

I mean, they don't have more. Yeah, but hard to get on the ground. Like, you got to get him and get him on the ground because he's just so big, man. Dimension-wise, he's got Carson Palmer's dimensions effectively. But when he was playing during the season, I don't think I quite recognize that was how big and tough and sturdy he was. I know he had the body armor and he took some serious shots. And going back to the Cal stuff, I mean, He took hits where I still don't understand how he's up and moving today.

That to me was purely just that, okay, he can absorb that toughness. He got straight up and he's got this Brady-esque maniacal energy when when you get him, he comes back for the throat immediately. And that just appeals to me. It appeals to me. I think it shows on third downs. It shows when he targets the new fish coming on the field. He just wants to go and rip up the freshman corner who's wandered on there.

So I just think he's operating mentally at different speed of the game. and maybe he's not allowed to attack the full field in the way certain guys are. Maybe it's not entirely NFL structured offense, but I think he's playing the game as a professional quarterback within the confines they ask him to play it. The last thing I'll tack on to that is there's something to, and not like to get into George Costanza, but there's something to shrinkage.

When you get hit early in games, when you get, I mean, really, really lit up, you'll see some guys really start to shrink. And he was the exact opposite of him. He got torched early in the Ohio State games. game, the Miami game. They lit him up and it just, it kind of, it kind of steeled his resolve a little bit more so than made him, you know, gun shy back there. That matters. I think that's important. Speaking of shrinking, I felt like bad for for Orlovsky when he made the Thai Simpson thing and

it becomes a whole story for a whole week because I think there's not enough to talk about with this draft. So that just got a lot of attention. I won't put you on the spot to, you know, go after someone I know you really respect DJ, but I would put it this way. if you were the Jets, and I'm seeing all this Tannenbaum stuff on ESPN, like, hey, the Jets are really interested. If I was the Jets, I would take them. And I'm thinking, well, Tanenbaum literally helped hire the GM there. Like his search firm not only helped hire Darren Mugi and Aaron Glenn,

but the head of his search firm got hired with the Jets and now worked there, Rick Spielman. And so I'm like, why is he throwing that out there on ESPN? Is it the help outside Simpson? Is it because this is actually true? If you were the Jets, you have the 16th overall pick, We also have too early in the second round. Would you be taking Ty Simpson? And how would you attack?

Where would you take? No, I would have the discussion if he's there. I think they have the first pick in the second round. So that would be for me where I would be, okay, we can afford. If we want to just take a shot here, it's a flyer. We'll take a shot, take a flyer. With those first two picks, everything that I've heard coming out of there, and for those that are dialed in there is that this is all building towards 27.

This is all looking out into the future to the point where if they didn't end up going Arvel Reese over Bailey, it would be even more so about, you know, Reese being a better player in 27 than maybe in 26, whereas Bailey's a little bit ahead of him in terms of Polish as a pass rusher right now. But everything is just kind of building out towards that year. That doesn't point to Ty Simpson. And I also think, you know, some of this comes back from working in the AFC North. Like we wanted quarterbacks who fit that division. And it just that in the AFC East and where you're going to play, you're, you saw. saw like Tua, and he's obviously playing all of his home games there in Miami,

but later in the year when you're playing in some of those other environments, like he's not, that's not a great match there. I just think when you're in the AFC North, the AFC East, especially if you're playing in Buffalo or with the Jets, like I just want a bigger guy. I don't think he necessarily fits as well there.

He feels more like an NFC West quarterback to me. Arizona is the absolute perfect fit. I know the Rams have been discussed. If they want to try and find one for the future, you know, and do they trade back from 13 and try and maneuver to do that? I can understand that, I guess, but he doesn't feel like the Jets guy to me. But again, if he's there at the top of the second round, you can have the discussion. And look, DJ has Ty Simpson ranked in his 30s and his top 50.

So, you know, a quality player, but yeah, quarterbacks get a little bit of a bump. So I think that kind of says where you have him slot it in. Do you like Ty Simpson, Ollie? Do you think he is going to have a future as a starter? Yeah, I haven't graded out as a solid starter. It's just so difficult to figure out who Ty Simpson is compared to the early portion of the year, compared to the late portion of the year,

and trying to kind of navigate, was that health concerns, is that a body armor issue that's going to carry over to durability in the league? Was it just an individual game plan thing? Was it the teammates around him? I think when you watch him early in the season, beyond just some of the accuracy, which Eves and flows with him anyway,

everything was just so much quicker. He was more agile in the pocket. There was more rhythm and bounce and feel to his drops. I thought he had a real good presence for a pressure flash in his face, just being able to scoot out there quickly, just the quick slides and then rip it. DJ mentioned earlier, Brock Purdy. That is kind of the play style you're looking at, a lot of playing on the move, a lot of quick navigation in the pocket,

and then rip it into the intermediate portion of the field. I thought that was there more Florida State early in the season. And as the year went along as he took an absolute beating, and the team kind of spiraled on him and the game plan's got a bit funky. I think just the difficulties with how he wants to play, which is ultra-aggressive, driving the ball down the field. He just doesn't have the kind of horsepower be able to play that way in the NFL.

And so I think he's just more in that purdy mold. And I think Arizona is the ideal spot where he can make a bunch of throws on the move and operate a system. Could he go there early second round and be a solid start to view? I think so. I do have genuine concerns about just the durability.

I think at 17-game, maybe 18-game season over the course of his career, we already saw him one year that he might not be able to hold up that punishment. Yeah, I don't disagree with that. But yeah, to go to your point, and Greg, I think you're getting ready to piggyback. It is the floor to me. That's the system.

That's the stadium. That's the system. That whole thing makes tons of sense to me. And, you know, later in the year, I talked about Mendoza. When you watched him in big moments and lading games and later in the year, I thought it looked like Mendoza was literally growing. He just looked bigger. He played bigger. And it looked like Ty was getting smaller, playing small.

or he's getting hit the balls on the ground. And I even thought some of this field vision stuff kind of that came and went a little bit. I want to say it was like, was it, Eastern Illinois was not, it was one of their kind of easier games towards the end of the year. He threw two picks, one of which was on a on a Hail Mary. So throw that one out. But there's another one that was across the middle should have been picked off. Like you got three interceptions in that game against a bad opponent. And that kind of throws out some of the, you know, well, it's the overmatched offensive line and, you know, the lack of receivers.

I know the run game was not there, but they're going to have a first-round offensive lineman. They're going to have another offensive lineman get drafted. Jeremy Bernard's going to be a day two picket receiver. The tight end's going to get drafted. It wasn't like that he was out there with Cal that Mendoza had the year before. I mean, they had some guys. But I just thought, you know,

and some of that was probably the sickness and him losing weight and everything. But I just thought he played a little bit smaller as you got later in there. Really starting with the first Oklahoma game and then kind of, Beyond that, there was, I mean, gosh, the SEC championship game, he didn't have much of a chance for what they had going on around him offensively that day. But man, I just thought that was a case where he looked small. I couldn't get away from anybody. That was my takeaway there. I also just thought you could see as DC's got tape on him during the year and adjusted to what his strengths were.

They started packing the middle of the field. They started rotating more. Some of the things that are strength in the profile, if you just kind of slice it off at six weeks, right? operating this expansive system. It's a bunch of pro-style passing concepts. He's working through things so quickly, one, two, three, boom balls out. As DC's got some film at him and started adjusting, particularly the rotation of the back end, he did look a little bit more frazzled.

There was more of a delay in the decision-making. People started setting the rushing away where you could just see him kind of bail out the back door where he's not just kind of staying in the pocket and working through it the way he's going to have to play in the NFL. He's not going to have the speed to just kind of bail out of there and beat guys and play on the perimeter all the time. That's going to be more on the design role game, in the boot game and kind of a function of the offense. And so I just thought you saw people find answers to what he did well early in the year, as well as him as kind of declining and falling off in his own play. And that's where the start is a limiting factor. There's a lot of situational awareness of which I think is a concern too.

And that's just a function of not playing a whole bunch of football. If you started 25 games, simple things, no laces, throws, speeding up your time because it's an all-out pressure and okay. The concept demands this rhythm, but I just got to get the ball out on. time and accurately those things, it's going to be hard from to learn that with live bullets in the NFL. Quick question. I don't want to cut you off there. But do we need Greg for this?

I'm just thinking about this. No. I don't think we do. I'm just here. I mean, we just go to a two box? Can we just take Greg's? It's already made it clear that like looking smaller is the worst thing you could possibly

be. And that's just for me on a regular day. I didn't mean, I'm just sitting there looking at Greg going. Do we really, I mean, this be really necessary in this one? whole podcast. That's my whole dream. It's like a Ponzi scheme to basically take this up to the end. It sounds like he's a guy type Simpson to wrap up on him, Ollie, and you can finish your point here. It's like, I don't know. In a different draft, I don't think we'd be talking about him as much. And if personally, just from the outside, having viewed all these drafts over the years,

he sounds like a guy that DJ and Rich are talking about, oh, wow, he's still on the board here, entering like round three, then he is to be like a surprise story and something happens early. But that's just my impression from the backside. I think because of the system he played in how he did operate, he can probably start earlier than guys who've had his lack of experience traditionally. But there are just fundamental things in his game that can only come from playing against live ammunition. And I just worry about the durability going up against Miles Garrett, whoever is.

He just feels like he might get folded up early on. and then we're in trouble. Well, and the fact that all these different teams, like the Browns, for instance, and Mike Lafleur specifically said, even mentioned that when he spoke last week at the coach's breakfast, you know, he told me,

Ty Simpson, that he wants to be in Arizona car. And I'm like, why is he saying that? You normally only say that about guys like, you aren't going to draft. I'm Luke Wilson. Join me each week for Film Never Lies. Since retiring from the NFL, I've had a lot of my mind, and now got my own show.

So if you're tired of lazy takes, if you want honest conversations, join us each week. Film Never Lies, available on all TSN platforms in the IHeartRadio app. Anyways, the whole point of me having you two guys on the show, what it was inspired by is because of a man Arvel Reese, who you mentioned earlier, DJ. And we talked a little about Reese on NFL Daily already, but for 40s. I want Ali to present to DJ the case for his beloved because Ali believes Reese, and I'm using your words here, and linebacker is your position, just as a background for the listeners.

Ali has worked for scouting services, and specifically you started out just doing linebackers, linebacker. And I believe you said, Ali, that you thought Rvel Ries, as a linebacker, as an offball linebacker, was about as good as any person you've scouted in the last 12 years other than Luke Kikley, I think was the one that you said was definitely in front of them, and that you see a career where he can just be a transformative linebacker, maybe a little bit less of an edge.

So make the case to a man who has a lot of influence around. Okay, I'll do that. I think you have to kind of remodel your idea of what a linebacker play is in 2026 compared to eight, nine, even five years ago. And if you think of R.V.R. Ries as almost Zach Bourne on Super Serum, right, where it's this walk linebacker where you stand off the ball on early downs, everyone's playing with a five, two or six one box.

You've got to try and match the box count. You've got to try and match the fact that all these guys are motioning and moving and overloading the formation, playing with big personnel. And you look at the top defenses in recent years. They all have a lineback who plays that walk roll. They start off the ball. They walk down to one the ball. Everyone kicks inside one spot. And so finding a player who can fit that mold is just really difficult to do while a lot of defenses get fried.

I think Reese has the capacity just play straight off the ball, not quite the same degree. his sunny styles is just a vintage sift and fine lineback and go find the ball, C ball, run and chase. But I think he's good enough to do that stuff. We know he can play on the balls and edge defender just in the run game, wherever it's just hit an exchange, whatever it is. He has the take on sales,

just play on the edge as an early down player. That's why he did for a high state. And then to play that role, you also have to be able to be effective and efficient rushing the pass set and be capable of dropping out. And I think all those things are true. And then I just think he can be more weaponized, moving around the front on passing downs,

mugged up in the A gap, mugged up in between two bigger guys, and just being a true fulcrum of the pressure plan, rather than just being a one-on-one winner flying off the edge. Now, if he does just win one-on-one off the edge, and he's Michael Parsons, great. I have no complaint to that. That'd be really fun.

I'd love to see that, but I think that force-multifying effect, and we saw with Zach Bowen in Philly two years ago, he was the most important player to the best defense in the league. And if you can find a guy as good as that, who I think is just, instinctively more athletic, then that to me sounds like a crown jewel piece to anchor a defense around. Rather than just saying, hey, he's just an edge defender. He's going to be a three-way rush guy.

He'll win some. He'll lose some. That play doesn't on tape yet as a really dynamic one-on-one consistent winner to pass. I think it's a good case. I think that's the good way of framing it. Because to me, look, I'm not going to pump holes in a guy who's like my, what, my fourth overall player. you know, so he's, I mean, I think he's, he's outstanding. But for me, if you're just looking in those traditional roles, it's the glass half full, half empty. When you're looking at them off the ball, I don't, I don't see like the elite elite level instincts that, you know, like you mentioned Kikley, for example, like you'd see with Kikley when he was coming out. I was around Ray Lewis. Like those elite guys, like you,

they just see things a little clear, a little quicker. I thought he was a count late there. And then as a pure rusher, he's a tick late off the ball, which. And I've talked to enough defensive line coaches over the years. It's like that's something that's very difficult to change. Like that's a, that's a cognitive thing, how you see it and how quick your snap reaction is and all those things. So he's a snap, he's just a tick late in really in both areas. But when you're saying, you know, okay, we can use him in a lot of different areas and we can use him to mug and we can use him to, you know, set the edge all day long. He's got, he's got like shock in his hands.

He's big time, big time can roll his hips. He's explosive and strike. He can, he'll do that at an elite level right from the jump. But my, my question was like, okay, if I'm looking at him versus David Bailey and you're just going to line him up purely as rushers, I'll take David Bailey as a rusher over Arbel Reese where he is at this point. I just think he's more polished. I think he's got better feel. I think he's got a better get off. He's got more ways to win.

So again, I think you're finding like a very specific like Vicks defense, finding some defenses that want to do this a very specific way. you can, you know, they're going to, they're going to absolutely love Reese in that manner. But, you know, like Micah, when I watch Micah, I'm like, okay, I literally said, Mike, if you put Micah as an edge or he'll get 20 sacks. Like, I thought he was that type of, had that type of feel. He just didn't get the opportunities. With Reese, I didn't, you know, I didn't think that he had that, you know, at least not within the, within several years of him growing and evolving at the position.

So I think we both see the strengths and the weaknesses very, similarly, it's just how much weight are you going to put on it on either side is where we kind of come out there. That is true. And my bias is a former linebacker scout and defensive coordinator is give me the move linebacker piece. And I'll take him first overall if he's available, please. That's good for me.

The volume of teams who are playing in the mug and drop game, the all-out pressure world, it's just higher than we've ever had. I think you do really creative things with him in the pressure package. And it's just where do you put him on the field on early downs? As DJ said, you could just stand him up as a wide player on early downs. He will strike and attack everyone. He can reset the front on his own, which is right to find in a package that he's playing with

with that level of lateral speed and all the other stuff that goes into it. So it's more the question of, can he just stand off the ball? As DJ said, can I work through the traffic? Does he have the instinctual stuff to do that? I just see him slightly more instinctive. I think the screen tape,

which is the number one thing I pull up for all the linebackers, is so outrageously good. That's where you get to see all kind of the under the hood things that I believe about lineback of play pops up on the screen film and not the bullshit bubble screen stuff. True, convoy of traffic screen film. And him and Jacob Rodriguez to me

were just different in that regard to basically everyone else in the class. And so I think that element of his game is still in there. And it will just be a reduced role if you start working the snap count to be, well, we're going to have 15 of him just on the edge on early down.

Then we're going to have 15 of him moving around the front in the attack base world. Then we'll start shrinking the snap count down where he's really just kind of standing with that panoramic vision playing true kind of assignment-based lineback of football. See, this is stuff you can just take with you, DJ, and just bring it right to the broadcast. You said he's not a hard, he's not a hard one to like now. No, you have him forth overall.

Although, you know, and that's what we get through this time of year. We're like splitting hairs between the great players. It is interesting to me, you know, you have sunny styles just a little bit ahead of them. you have Jeremiah Love ahead of him. While we're just talking big names, because we really haven't done that too much on the 40s. Obviously, you can get that on Moved 6. Everyone should be checking that out.

I do find it interesting. Ali, you also had Caleb Downs right there at the top. I think of your two favorite players, I don't want to miss quote you here, are those two players, Arbel Reese and Caleb Downs, and that you think obviously you have to figure out the positional value of safety, like where would you take them? but that he's special enough that you could imagine him transforming a defense from the back end,

like let's say he gets to the Giants at number five, in the same way that Arval Reese could potentially transform a defense up front. So I guess I'm curious just if you guys see Downs' like transformative ability differently, and I guess, Ali, you'd make the case for Downs that yes, yes, he's a different player, obviously, than Kyle Hamilton or Durham James or anything. But it does seem like you think he's that high quality of player. Why do you think that? Yeah, I think me and DJ see the player evaluation really similarly.

I think DJ said before that he's not quite that playmaker on the ball, the way we think of traditionally those kind of top-level safeties where you would maybe break the mold of the positional value. I think when I do the draft Eval stuff, I do look more of the structural impact of players and can the players be great while impacting the structure. So when you get someone like Kyle Hamilton, it's just a unique different style of player

who allows us to get to anything on the, the menu in a way that allows to offset all the different movement motion formation personnel groupings that defenses are throwing the way of, offensive, sorry, throwing the way of defenses. Caleb Downs is not that similar style play. He doesn't have that kind of size, that quite style of movement skills on the back end. But I do think he's got a kind of linebackery level type play in and around the box where it could be more in the Jalen Petrie mold. And I just think those players who allow you to play against different personnel groups

that have to substitute all the time are a key part of the pressure package. They're just so valuable in the modern game. We've just seen it over and over again with Brian, Brian, with Jalen Petrie. Having a saved, you can just essentially play a weak side linebacker for you. Then go play on the roof for a few snaps. And just snap by snap, you're really changing the pitch for the defense without having to substitute and rotate and tip your hand in the huddle. It's just buying snaps over and over again.

It's buying small wins over and over again. And then I do think he's got enough playmaking on the ball, enough playmaking to the perimeter to be able to kind of have these rock on contact, drive the ball out type plays where we can get some game breaking stuff out of him too. I think I'm just a little bit more in the structural coach-minded element of my evaluations, whereas DJ has just the stronger roller decks going back as long as he's done this of just what great players look like in just the general player evaluation.

Yeah, and I would say for me, and again, he's like eighth or ninth player on my list. So I view him as top 10 player. but Petrie and Branch, obviously both were taken later in the draft. I think both those guys have better movement for me than he does, just watching a move. And you think about guys that, okay, I get asked a question, well, how high is he going to go? I don't think he's going to go to the Giants. I think that you're talking more 10 to 20 than in the top 10 just in talking to teams,

kind of where they are on him. So that to me, like Minka, like, okay, Minka can hold up and play corner if you wanted to on the outside. He can do all these different things. We talked about the size with Dermit, Derwin and with Hamilton. And even Wari still, I've never got to the bottom of that. I knew he,

I mean, I didn't, he was my 15th player, I think, and I didn't have him in the final mock draft because talking around the league, everybody was like he's going to go in the second round, which was crazy to me.

But so some of it is just how they're valuing what they do. And then they're, look, he's an unbelievable tackler, but I've talked to defensive coordinators that are worried about him, just because he's not the, not the longest guy. And they thought that they were like NFL backs on a weekly

basis, they don't know that that that'll be quite the same batting average that he had in college. So I don't know. I think he's a really good player. I think he just, Ali described him extremely well of he's adding into the run fit and he's going to be able to, you know, closer to the line of scrimmage. I, I didn't have those concerns with him as a tackler, but there's, there's some people I've talked to that don't have quite as high of opinion on on him. So we'll see. This, this, why, I mean, this show could go on forever for me. I just want to listen and sit back. But we are running out of time here. So I'm going to put Ali on the spot in a tough way. If you could pick one of your like day three guys, Ollie, at any position.

I know you like the Indiana safety. What's his name? Louis. Oh, Louie Moore. Yeah. I know you like him. So that's an option. This is how deep his podcast goes. Everyone should check it out. Read Optional. It's on Substack him and John Ledyard. I think they did 25 minutes on on Louis Moore or whatever which is just outrageous but just how much you love it but it doesn't have to be him if you could just like influence DJ to move

one like day three guy higher or just take your claim who is it Ali got my guy when you're done too because I'm just making sure I pull up my notes. It would be Keeshawn Elliott the lineback from Arizona I think he's a starting caliber linebacker does he have quite the movement skills of some other guys he does

not but he looks just to me like one of these guys who played seven eight years the league is a starting linebacker. You look up and go, wow, the best starting lineback of this year is, Keishon Elliott? It's like, yes, he is. That's what starters look like. They look like TJ Edwards. Go through the list right now, starting linebackers of the NFL is not a blowaway number of household names with crazy athletic profiles. It's smart guys who played to the team construct, who tackle everything, who can add something into the blitz game. I think Keishon Elliott fits that more. Oh, that's a good one. All right, I'm going to

give you mine that I think this guy has got a good chance to sneak into day two. And I don't know if you've heard a lot of people talking about them through this process. I'm just making sure I pull up my notes on them so that I don't screw it up here. If we're trying to find some interior pass rush, to me, Caleb Proctor's tape is just different than everybody else's out of southeast Louisiana. He's 6017, 291. He ran 479. He had, I think, nine sacks. But he's excellent on stunts. He's got an explosive get-off. He's not the most violent player, which I would love to see, but he's a feel-creative rusher who can slip blocks and play up field. So he's someone, and I think he's kind of a little bit of a D-line coach, darling,

out there for guys who are trying to find some subrush inside. And I think it's one of those, anytime you talk to people where they're like, this is my favorite day three product. And I'm like, well, you know what that means. He ain't going on on day three. So I could see him sneak into the third round. I love that. I hope we influence some team out there listening,

or maybe we'll just reflect what they already think. Louis Moore, though, another fun one. 25 minutes on Lou Morris. I mean, I might be exaggerated, but it was a while. I think you're underselling us. I think we could have been 45. That's fantastic. Just an older player, but once he got on the field,

made a big difference. Yeah, you're the Louis Moore of our show. Although, you know, a newbie relatively in the game. I don't know if Drew's in the chat. Drew, can we just cut Greg out of this when we post it? Is that possible? I think that's fine. I mean, you'd lose...

You said it's already done. Okay, good. Yes, some handsomeness, but otherwise you're fine. We will see you guys next week on 40s and free agents. We are getting closer and closer to the big day. I believe we got a special guest next week, too. We did this show last year. You can probably figure out who it is.

We'll see you then. This is an IHeart podcast. Podcast. Guaranteed human.