NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - 57th Annual Fantasy Extravaganza!!!

Episode Date: August 24, 2022

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler, and Gregg Rosenthal embark on the 57th Annual Fantasy Extravaganza! We start by talking receivers with Matt Harmon (3:42), before NFL Fantasy experts Marcas Grant and Michael F. Florio stop by to discuss dueling picks (22:21). Rotoworld legend Patrick "RotoPat" Daugherty gives us all of his cranky takes (39:47), and we "Establish the Run" with fantasy expert Evan Silva (58:38) before signing off with some fantasy advice from the late great Chris Wessling (1:20:00). Note: Timecodes Approximate.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Welcome to the 50th annual around the NFL fantasy extravaganza with special guests. The Big Fish, Evan Silva. Mike Florio and Marcus Grant of NFL Fantasy Live. Yeah. Matt Harmon. Greg, Brick by Brick, Rosenthal. Hell yeah.

Protopat, Patrick Dardy. And also Mark is here. I'm Dan Hansus. That's predictable. And now your host and two-time League of Record champion, Dan Hansen. Thank you, me. You have raw, carnal charisma. Welcome, yes, to the 51st annual around the NFL fantasy extravaganza.

Yes, excitement is in the air. It's the final week of August, which means your fantasy football draft is right around the corner, or it should be. We are here to ensure that by the end of this episode, there's only one thing left to do. just like Jake Taylor said in Major League win the whole thing

sitting to my left he's famously put in the work to make triple G his nickname of record but to me and for the purposes of today's show he's triple B brick by brick Rosenthal Greg

fantasy is a life you left behind but I know it's still inside you well I left behind to come here with you and make a new life daddy's happy Second marriages with Greg Rosenthal But a new generation starting Like my son is starting to get into fantasy

And that's how you That's how you build a legacy The next generation And sitting to Triple B's left is a man Who risked his life on the fantasy corner for years But now calls the safe confines Of the Chris Wessling podcast studio his home He's on the show today

It's Mark Sessler Mark Butterflies Absolutely because I think You know from a listener's standpoint this is a signature perhaps the biggest show of the year for many people because it involves their money if they follow our advice and then we're hooked to their their earnings so how does it but a little weird biggest show of the year and yet your role is always a little I think Dan like obviously enjoyed writing the intro to the show there and I'm not surprised by how I was treated within the intro he loved writing oozing with charisma I mean it's sort of like self fantasy is just unfurling we know how he sees himself Yes, this is, you know, they say don't mess with other people's money. That's what the show is about for us. We're messing with your money, but we're not messing with it.

We're protecting it. We're taking that investment that, you know, off the books, not anything of issue with Uncle Sam investment in your league. Maybe the investment is just for fun. I don't know what you're doing in your league, if that's the case. And we're going to turn that into a profit. If you listen to our guests, because we have, as you heard in the intro with that raw bursting charisma, carnal sexuality from our host narrator. This is going to be what?

Oh, that's you. Is this going to continue all show? We have a who's who. And because we have so many great guests, we can't waste any more time. This is the 50-second fantasy extravaganza. It's time to welcome in our first guest. He's a man who used to be a colleague of ours,

but now he's doing his own thing. He's killing it. He's got his own website, reception, perception. He knows all fantasy ball. We're going to talk wide receivers with him because that makes sense. Bring in Matt Harmon. Welcome Matt Harmon. Unbelievable.

There he is. There he is. Oh, he's looking swole, newly married. He always spent a lot of money on his hair, and still you can tell it's looking good. It's a challenger to what's going on with Dan. No, I'll say this, boys. This is probably the first time all over the last two months I've done my hair. Oh, wow.

The hair is over. I'm a hat guy now. Oh, you're into the hat realm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've had a two-month-long hat head. That's concerning. I mean, you're married now. Yes, how is married life?

I know we see each other down by the sea from time to time, and it seems like you're very happy and a lucky man. How are you feeling? I'm the luckiest. Things are great. She is the best person on Plain Earth Very supportive of the absurd amount of time I put into the wide receiver game

So that was kind of the thing, right? Like if somebody who's going to marry me They've got to understand or try to understand The whole fantasy thing And the reception thing That's a lot to juggle Right, you're into receivers, we're going to talk receivers You have the site reception perception perception

We're going to talk more fantasy But what some people don't know And maybe even you guys forgot about this Test us Is that Matt Harmon was on our show one time before, but it wasn't in the studio and it wasn't as a member of NFL media.

It was as a call-in contestant on one of the very first episodes of Win Wes's Toaster back in 2013. Justin, let's listen to this. Do we have someone on the line that could take Wes on? We do.

And let me tell you that I screened this person. It was pretty darned. Good, Wes. So I wouldn't be so, so confident. I know you did your studying, but be prepared for good math. This is the first radio teleguists. Now on the phone is a true contender, Matt Harmon. Beware.

What's up, fellas. Hey, Matt. Matt. How are you doing? How you doing? How are you doing? Welcome to the Around the League podcast. Happy to be here.

Different name, Matt. I am from Virginia. Lynchburg, right, not to be exact. Who's your team? No, that's a complicated question. That's five out of six. Here's after the show For Matt, Wes, this was a big day for Chris Wessling

Yes, it was Your victory speech, go ahead Well, you know what, the toaster is mine I'm keeping it, I've earned it And no one else can have it Matt Whoa, what is this? Seduction Wednesday

Some toaster love for you I like that Wow, unbelievable And you know, Chris Wessling, round of applause For always defending that title with honor And even when he lost the toaster, Wes was a man of integrity. Matt, that is amazing. I had no idea.

Yeah, I was a huge fan of the show at the time. And a huge fan of Wes specifically. Sorry, guys. I mean, you're I, too. But, yeah, that was awesome. I mean, I was so geeked about that. So being able to hear it now, it's pretty cool. Re-listing to it was amazing.

That was our first season. That was 2013. Your Panthers, I think, were the actual team of ATL. We had a different name as a podcast. And it was a controversial episode because we had on, we had on the guy who we thought had beat him and the judge realized after the fact that the judge had made a mistake.

Wow, what a moment. Back in history. But you got rocked. Three out of five, that's better than a lot of the ham and eggers that would come on and get zero or one. Three is not bad. That's very good. The goal was to get from Win West's Toaster to this moment now.

So I think in the long time. It's kind of amazing. It's literally nine years ago. And here we are now entering the 2022 season. And Matt, wide receiver group for fantasy heads out there last year people that drafted cooper cup and i feel like cup is where he got to start on some level because what cup did last year winning the triple crown yards catches touchdowns for a guy that had essentially been like a

1,000 yard receiver but not a super duper star uh he's going to go very high in drafts obviously two part question one do you feel comfortable saying that's kind of close to his baseline at this point in his career or will be an outlier and two is there someone else out there who has established themselves as a playmaker but you see can win leagues and be the new cooper cup in 2022 i think that's like the biggest question in all of fantasy this year is who's going to be that like next version of cooper cup um i think when you look back at cooper cup this is probably going to be an outlier year like how many times is somebody really going to win the triple crown twice probably not going to happen but i i love the cooper cup example because he's a

guy who had a resume, like you said, and in reception perception, he'd always been one of the best zone beating receivers in the entire NFL. And, you know, he's got the most hyper unique role, too. So I think you can, like, he doesn't go out there and do, like, what Stefan Diggs does or something like that, like line up on the outside against press coverage, against man coverage, and win on a route by route basis. He's schemed into a lot of favorable situations. And I think you kind of, if you want to start with, like, who's the next Cooper Cup, you kind of look at those other big slot receivers. I think one guy who is like boring now at this point, I think Jujuice Mishuster's kind of gone from one of being the most overrated receivers in

the NFL, it's one of the most underrated receivers in the NFL. And if you look at just his profile compared to Cooper Cup, big slot receiver, zone beater, and now he's gotten probably an even bigger quarterback upgrade than Jared Gough to Matthew Stafford, like the ghost of Ben Rathusberger to Patrick Mahomes is a pretty huge upgrade. But if I want to be like excited, exciting, though. I think the guy who takes the step into Dan to steal your phrase, the superstar club, I think it's Michael Pittman this year for sure. I mean, he's going to go high. I've got him ranked as a top 10 receiver. So, like, I'm already kind of ranking him as if he's made that

jump. But, I mean, this guy is so good. I think his game reminds me, people kind of feel like Michael Pittman is like a jump ball receiver. But I kind of view him more of as like a Kenan Allen Allen Robinson hybrid, like a slasher. He can definitely do that type of stuff, like go down the field and win contested, but he can also separate at all three levels. And playing the quarterback like Matt Ryan, that's a much better fit than Carson West. To me, to me, Chase would be like the answer to your specific question. Just because, like, he's right there with Randy Moss is like the best rookie receivers ever.

What you're saying is true, but I'm saying the guy that's like you take him in the second or third round and all of a sudden he's winning leagues for you because he's a top three player. One thing I was surprised looking at it, and I guess this is a trend every year in fantasy, but especially now more than ever, it's like Matt was ahead of the game. I feel like this is a receiver league. Like, you see it with the money that's being paid, and you just see it year after year. There's so much depth at receiver.

But the top, like, five guys especially at Wide Out to me are such incredibly safe bets. Yeah. Justin Jefferson and Chase, and I throw Diggs and Adams. And they're like, I would rather have them than maybe any receiver. I, you know, and certainly almost any, I mean, any running back, rather. And definitely for me, any running back maybe other than Jonathan Taylor, Maybe I would throw Dalvin Cook and Camara in there,

but those guys are going later in drafts. And like, man, when you're drafting early, if you're getting a point per reception, all those guys I'd rather have than these running backs. Yeah. I'd like to think I was ahead of the curve. I maybe just got lucky. Like when I was doing the win, West's Toaster thing.

You saw all this coming. You know, in the background, yeah, I'm charting routes and all that for reception. So it was about the same time. But, yeah, no, I'm with you, Greg. I think all those guys are just rocks all the best. It's like they're getting taken around the same time that DeAndre Swift and,

Even I'd throw Henry in that mix or like Fournette and Giovante Williams are somehow in the same round as some of these guys. To me, it boggles the mind. Like take the easy like home run, which is these guys early. What do you do, you know, the quarterback changes around the league? Like you've got Jerry Judy, who we've seen the potential and he's trappositioned to a certain thing. But there's an upgrade in theory because of Russell Wilson. And Cortland Sutton, it sounds like has great chemistry with Russell Wilson. But then the flip side, like a D.K. Metcalf, who is a dominant wideout, but stuck in purgatory based on what they're probably going to get at quarterback.

Do you just, for your own drafting, would you knock, people are going to want to take D.K. Metcalf, but what happens to him in that environment? Yeah, it's a great question. And this year, you can't really do the old thing of like, well, you know, a guy changes teams. You can't really trust fantasy receivers who change teams. Good luck with that if you try to take that strategy, right? Because there's been so much receiver movement and quarterback movement, too. Over at Yahoo, like the top 40, receivers in ADP, 19 of them have new quarterbacks. I mean, some of these guys, like Iuk and Debo call passes from Trey Lance, but they're not used to starting with him for the full season. So you can't really get away with that. With the, I mean, the Seahawks example specifically, it's so tough because, yeah, I mean, Metcalf and Lockett, too. By the way, I don't understand

the huge gap between D.K. Metcalf and Tyler Lockett in terms of an ADP perspective, because if you look at the games that Gino Smith started last year, he actually had a higher target share, did Tyler Lockett than D.K. Metcalfe. I mean, I've been in the bag for Tyler Lockett for many years. They're both pretty buried. Like I feel like there's a lot of people reacting to the quarterback situation. Like you mentioned AJ Brown. Like both Eagles seem insanely low to me in terms of AJ Brown could be a top six or seven fantasy receiver. And Devante Smith, I would expect to do better. But I think people just look at Jalen Hurts or they look at Trey Lance when it comes to Ayuk and they get a little scared. I'm not as scared. I like

all those guys. I think at receiver you can bet on town. more than any other position in fantasy. Like a running back, sometimes a guy really can be tanked by his situation. But with receiver, like the best players do tend to rise to the top. And there are certain guys like the San Francisco example is great that I think Trey Lance's skill set. I mean, we haven't seen it fully, but his theoretical skill set overlaps so much more with Iyuk than it does.

Like Jimmy G. and Debo Samuel, that was a great connection stylistically. So I think you can look at quarterbacks in that way, Not necessarily just even how good they are, but what type of receiver do they fit with? And when you spend a lot of time watching a receiver, you typically tend to find out what type of quarterbacks fit with them the best. Like Sutton seems like he would with Russell Wilson. Well, that's all the reporting, too, that they are just like. Are you high on both of those guys?

I can't shake the feeling that we get to like week six and week seven, and we're looking at the Denver Broncos, just kind of like, and this is it? I love it. I think with you. I so agree. I just think it's been like, Take it that for the AFC title game.

I don't buy that. I would love to have been able to come in here and say, like, oh, yeah, Corton Sutton and Jerry Judy, these guys are coming off great years from an individual perspective. And, you know, for your listeners that aren't familiar with reception perception, what I try to do is I think it's the only tool out there that can truly isolate wide receiver play from the surrounding variables because we know wide receiver production so inherent on those outside variables to get there. Obviously, you need to have a good quarterback, all that stuff.

But I don't think Coralton Sutton played that well in isolation last year. There's a reason that he totally fell off the map once Jerry Judy got back there. And Judy obviously was banged up. I think that's the thing is you can make an injury excuse for both these guys. Like Coral and Sutton was playing first year after an ACL, Jerry Judy playing on a high ankle sprain. But I just don't think either of those guys, we haven't seen it from Sutton since he tore his ACL, even though he was a great player that year. With Judy, we've only kind of seen it in flashes. And I think losing Tim Patrick is a big deal.

like now their third receiver you know kj hamler is not even really doing like team drills he's like running individual drills so i i'm okay ranking these guys where where like around where they are in a dp but they're not some of my prime targets there i have two players i wanted to uh talk about here one is a first round guy that if you're picking in the middle to back end of the first round i'm wondering where you are on tyrie kill because he is that special hall of fame level player that i'm sure on reception, grades off the charts for what he does well. But you are going, it's the reverse of the juja. You're going from Patrick Mahomes to a lesser entity,

even though some people are very high, obviously, on Tua. And then the second part is a guy a little later in drafts that could be seen as a steal, but then maybe again, like in November, you're like, oh, I overthought that one. He had been out of the league for two years, and now he's got James Winston. Michael Thomas, where are you on those two guys? Yeah, Tyree Kill, I've got him, you know, ranked around like the fringe top 10. area. I'm fine taking him there. I don't think you can really justify a top 20 ranking for a guy like Jalen Waddle and Tyree Kill because I just think this is going to be a run first offense,

questionable quarterback. So I think you kind of have to put a flag on one of the other. Like if you're going to rank Tyree Kill top 10, you can't really rank Jalen Waddle top 17 because the math just doesn't really work out there. But at the same time, they also don't really have any like a relevant third receiver. So I'm fine with where Tyree Kills going, but I'm not super bullish one way or another. on Michael Thomas though I said this going into last year I think Michael Thomas gets a bad rap as like the Slamp Boy thing

it's a good nickname because it's objectively hilarious and it bothers him that's how you know it's a good nickname Nobody wants to be called a blank boy anything Slant Boy is not sometimes but Mark does it's another podcast yeah yeah yeah but I think that Michael Thomas actually is like a

full field route runner he has the second highest success rate versus man coverage score since 2014 in reception reception all time. Like, I think he can do it all. It's just been so long since we've seen him. What type of player is he at this point? I'm actually kind of excited about James potentially unleashing him. We talked about like quarterback and wide receiver relationship earlier. Talk to me. Yeah, right. I think that like Deontay Johnson's a guy who gets, you know, kind of typecasted as he can only run these little pop gun routes because Ben Ruffisberger could really

only throw those pop gun routes. And I think, you know, Wes was on this early about Drew Brees that his arm strength was in severe decline. That was kind of right as Michael Thomas was hitting his prime. So I think that's why Thomas has that like Slamp Boy moniker. But, you know, he goes around like wide receiver 30, 32. I'm fine taking him as like your third wide receiver because at that point. Man, that's, I mean, that's what I love. That's what I love me in some fantasy drafts is you take, take the swings.

Again, to talk about West, that was our thing. Take those, like, there are so many good receivers. I would, I would look in the rounds like five through eight. It's crazy. It's just deeper than it's ever been. To get a guy like Michael Thomas, DeAndre Hopkins, I'll live with that suspension for him to come back a little later. Like, Phelan is going in that area in the sixth round.

To me, he has, like, huge upside this year. And then you get deeper, and it's like Elijah Moore. All the second year guys, man. Elijah Moore, it seemed crazy to me. He's so clearly to me going to probably be the one there in Iyuk and all these guys that would just, like, keep loading up because all those running backs who take in that area will be slavis. You called Elijah Moore a star in one of your articles.

Oh, 100%. Yeah, I'm so in on Elijah Moore. I think he's going to be a big-time player. He's one of these guys that in their rookie season hit 75% success rate versus man. Like, those guys are the stars of the NFL. There are very, very few guys who have been true failures that have hit that marked in RP. I mean, there's guys like Sterling Shepard who's been fine, like Curtis Samuel, who's been fine. But for the most part, these are like the all-stars of the NFL.

So I love a lot. He had kind of blown up. Yeah. He had kind of blown up and then got her. And then that stopped his momentum. Had his biggest game last year with Joe Flacko. There you go. Right.

He might be playing with Joe Flacko a lot. Right. And I would be a little wary of Garrett Wilson, just because I think it's crowded there, and it might take them a little minute. But be like an NFL team. If you've especially got three wide receivers and a flex, like draft five good ones, draft six good ones.

You'll end up using them all. And if you've got too many, like great. They will be as easy to trade as anyone. Can I ask you about one guy real quick? Yes. George Pickens is like blown up the summer. and I think if you're a more casual fantasy person and you're a Steelers fan,

I just would take him because it's like, I want him to be great. He's so, I mean, rookies, do you just tend to not trust them as much, no matter what happens in the preseason, or does someone like Pickens kind of rise up through the ranks for you? Rookies are interesting in fantasy

because I'd rather be outside of the guys like last year, Jamar Chase. And I think Drake London and Chris Olive this year, I'm fine like drafting from the jump because you can project them to a really big role right away just based on the other guys that are there and also how good those players are. There are players, like, I think Alec Pierce fits into this.

I think George Pickens, though, he's probably going to start. I would start him in two wide receiver sets over Chase Claypool. He's been into wide receiver sets this summer. I think he's a really, really good prospect. So he might be an exception to this, but typically like a guy like Skymore, you want them to be sort of that Amon Rae St. Brown last year that when the biweek hits, you see their snaps rising,

you see their targets start to rise. But he's getting taken so late. I mean, he's almost a flyer. That's crazy. The thing is, though, a lot of these. guys um like i'll go back to the st brown example um who's another player i really like this year among that second year group all the folks that had him on their teams that like won championships last year were probably not the ones that drafted him as that late flyer i mean you could take him

and drop him but be ready to like pick him back up if you start to see those snaps rising the playing time rising that's just one thing that i was nothing worse than that when you have yes it's the have the vibe on a player in August and you think you're smart and then the slow start and you lose and then someone else catches in on that lotto ticket. All right, Matt Harmon. Man, we could talk for another hour with you, but we have such a jam-pack show. But you were a perfect lead-off man here. Check out Matt on Twitter at Matt Harmon.

Of course, Matt, you could find at Yahoo Fantasy. And, of course, his reception perception site, which you, by the way, call RP, just throwing it out there. That's great IP intellectual property that you created and hopefully you leverage that into multi-millionaire status eventually. Fingers crossed. A branding whiz here. It is. All right, Matt Harmon, thank you very much.

Appreciate it, guys. Thank you. Thank you. All right, there goes. Matt, we'll be right back with more very special guests, the 52nd annual fantasy extravaganza. We are back. the extravaganza rolls on

with some very special guests joining us in studio right here colleagues from the NFL fantasy game Marcus Grant Mike Floreo welcome to around the NFL This music, it sounds like it sounds like something from like

an Apple TV space epic produced by Tom Hanks you know Well you deserve that. Thanks I appreciate that. I appreciate that. No one watches it Yeah, something like that. It gets all like sort of love from critics but like no one you know in real life has ever seen it absolutely what is up mike florio first time long time yeah first time long time how are you well we're assuming long time i'm not sure

that you guys i'm just happy to be here with you guys um you guys are with the nfl fantasy live gang here at nfl network also the podcast and anywhere else you find the content for nfl fantasy you will see marcus and mike prominently involved with the rest of the gang and i think because we you guys together i think it would be fun to get into a little debate type you know this this try to get started as the atl debate club it did how about a little debate between mike and marcus trying to drive a wedge between us that's what that's happening that's what the show is mostly about we like to create artificial conflict that's basically do you naturally get along or is it or is it um just a service level you know we i consider ourselves

level. I want to start because this one's juicy to me. Let's move. We just talked wide receivers with your former colleague, Matt Harmon. Let's talk running backs. Let's talk Ezekiel Elliott, who is polarizing beyond belief. Once upon a time a couple years ago, this guy's a top five pick in fantasy drafts. Now it feels like it's swung the other way, and many people see him as washed and someone

to stay away from. Where do you come down on this one, Marcus? I want to be washed to the tune of being the RB7 last year, which is what he was. I feel like tales of Ezekiel Elliott's demise are greatly exaggerated. This is a guy who, look, I know the talk that he didn't have the burst, he didn't have the acceleration. He also was playing injured for a good chunk of the year last year.

Fantasy Twitter has put Tony Pollard in the Cowboys Ring of Honor. You know, and I don't quite see it. I still think, I still think Zeeke has a lot left. Plus, everything the Cowboys have told us this offseason says they still want him to be the workhorse back. They still want to give him, you know, 250, 275 touches. And I feel like there aren't many running backs that you can draft that still have that sort of touch share. So I'm still in on Zique. I will certainly take the gladly take the discount.

He's coming off the board in the third round, so I will gladly draft him there. Is that that big a discount? I mean, that's still pretty early. It is still pretty early, but it's a discount compared to, you know, in Zeke's past, when you were talking about him as easily, you know, a first round guy. And I feel like it's gone up, actually. I feel like it was fourth, fifth round earlier this summer. So I will gladly draft him in the third round.

You know, if I'm going two wide receivers early, I'll make him my first running back. I'm totally happy with that. Mike, does this sound like madness to you? So the one issue with the fact that me and Marcus talk fantasy football all day long is that, you know, some of his opinions, rub off on me, and Marcus slowly has been making me a Zeke believer, but third round is too early for me.

The thing with Zeke is the last couple of years, like last year he finished as the RB7, but I believe in a individual week, he was a top seven running back one time. So he's kind of like a volume dependent guy who at the end of the year, you're going to be like, oh, wow, he greatly exceeded his ADP. But I just, if I'm taking someone in the third round, I'm a sucker for upside. So I think like ETN and Breece Hall would be more of the running backs that I go for there Because my concern with Zeke is if that volume starts to dwindle Whether they start passing more or Tony Pollard does eat into that workload

I think then he'll struggle to return RB1 value But luckily for Marcus and people drafting him, you do not have to take him as an RB1 When I saw that you had a breeze hall above him I mean the jets are a projection entirely on offense too I just I found that spicy that that's that was that you're a bit of an outlier on that front He's a wrestler approved He's a bad boy He's showing off the sleeves here

Florio, I love it Yeah, give me all the Breece Hall over seek That's what I guess bad boys do We have a much cooler Florio Let's just face it I'll say this That like what Marcus is saying And I don't know if I'm taking him

In the third round But I see what you're saying Because A If he was playing through a partially torn PCL last year in his knee Okay, the fact that he ended up RB7 That's kind of impressive

And B, I totally buy into Sometimes when the owner slash GM, like Jerry Jones, even though there's only one Jerry Jones, says to the media, oh, he's still our guy. He's going to be our bell cow. It's like when Jera says it, financially he has reasons for it to be that way too. So I think he's telling his head coach, the owner, he is our guy, make it work. I was going to say, is he telling it to us as fans or the media?

Or is he speaking to Mike McCarthy? All of the above, I think. This is not Georgia Frontier issuing fantasy advice. Mike Florio, how about? The quarterback position. I love, you want to talk about spicy takes. Mike Floreo hates Patrick Mahomes. Partially because I'm a Bill's fan.

Oh, okay. I understand that. I understand. That had to be those 12 seconds probably still sticking to the ribs. Why do you think that Patrick Mahomes is someone that, are you saying people should stay away from Patrick Mahomes? I'm not saying you should stay away from him. I don't think he should be going as a top three quarterback like he is in most fantasy

drafts. And my reason is, one, I think of all non-quarterbacks, Tyree Kill is the most influential offensive player in the NFL. Like, he opens up so much for everyone else. And I think Patrick Mahomes will be fine with Juju and Sky Moore and all those guys they brought in. But I don't think he's going to have someone that could take a 10-yard past 80 yards or someone that will consistently be open downfield and just create a lot more room underneath. But also the biggest thing is that The five guys I have ahead of him, Alan, Herbert, Kyler Mary, Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hertz, they all run a lot more than Patrick Mahomes does. And in fantasy football, like that is kind of like a cheat code, getting a running back,

a quarterback who can run like that. So I think he will be a QB1. I just think the five guys that I have ahead of him have a easier path to being the best quarterback in fantasy than Mahomes does. Why do you hate, like, Florio as a person just because of this opinion? I mean, how do you spit on Patrick Mahomes like that? I mean, it's like putting ketchup on a state. Wait, that's not, brother.

Probably not a good analogy with Mahomes, right? I still believe in Mahomes. I still have him as a top three quarterback for me. And I sort of look at it. Which is how early, like for you? For me, I think you're still talking about the fourth round, which is weird. Like, I will probably never have Patrick Mahomes because of where you have to draft him. I'm not ready to draft a quarterback at that spot just yet.

But I still believe, I think in a weird way, maybe not having Tyreek Hill helps him out. And I always go back to some of early career Drew Brees, right, where it was hard to peg a Saints wide receiver, maybe outside of Marcus Colston that you really wanted, but you knew Drew Brees was going to be a top five guy because he was spreading the ball around to a whole bunch of players. Mahomes has been amazing, pretty much just funneling the ball to Travis Kelsey and Tyreek Hill.

Now he's got Kelsey, now he's got Juju. I think Valdez Scantling makes some plays. I think Sky Moore kind of slides in there. And whether or not he's throwing it, you know, take your running back pick, right? if it's Clyde Edwards Allaire, if it's Isaiah Pacheco, who's become a fantasy hipster pick now. I think there's a lot more places to go with the football. And I know we all love the quarterbacks who can run, and those are the guys we love in the top five.

The other way to be a top five quarterback is to be insanely efficient, which is what we've seen out of Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers. If there's anybody who can slide into that, I think it's Patrick Mahomes. And maybe having a wider selection of targets means he's not playing hero ball as much. Maybe he's not forcing it. And some of those throws we saw last year that ended up as interceptions, maybe they turned into completions and touchdowns, and we see Patrick Mahomes still finish, you know, as a top three guy. Like, where are you, Florio, on when to take these quarterbacks generally?

Because it is confusing, I think, taking a step back and, like, looking at the drop-off at running back, for instance. Like, at first, there's all these great players. Camara, I like the Sequin bounceback idea, you know, Chubb, Aaron Jones. Those are like second round type of guys, maybe Joe Mixon. And then it's like Zicchio Elliott and Cam Acres and James Connor and E.N. And Josh Jacobs. You disgust on your face when you say those. That's how you became RB7 last year.

I get it. But they're like third and fourth round guys. And it's like, are they that good at like playing football? Like, which is a factor because you start losing touches and everything. And then you can compare that to guys like Lamar or Jalen Hertz or Kyler and like quarterbacks that to me our money in the bank will get running back. like that will get running value for you and like and or the receivers that are available there it just feels to me and and tell me if I'm wrong like these mediocre running backs are

really getting pushed up the board yeah that and we like to call it like the rb dead zone which is where like people start just pulling up running backs because they're like oh my god all the good running backs are gone now I need one so they're just going to leave other position like good talent on the board but I do agree with Marcus like Mahomes fourth round is is about right but Just because quarterback is so deep, I'd rather take a receiver, or I'd probably avoid those running backs, you said, but I'll take like a receiver there or something, and I'll just get a quarterback a little bit later. I do say, though, by the way, I think, and I say this every summer, I think we are in line for kind of a rethinking of quarterback scoring. That's what I'm saying. I'm bringing this.

If we all believe that Josh Allen is great or Patrick Mahomes is great, I don't believe it should be a strategic disadvantage to draft those guys. And that's sort of where we are right now. And I think we need to figure out something. Unless you do a QB, a two QB league. like I do. That's how you play the sport in modern times. But I don't think that does it either. I think what that does is create scarcity.

I don't think it separates the elites from the mediokers. I think it just creates scarcity. Like, we need to be in a world where we live in a world right now where James Winston can throw 30 picks and end up as a top five quarterback. And that's just not, that's just not kosher to me. So, you know, whether it's escalators. Because quarterbacks turn into league winners, though. They do.

All the time. Like Lamar was a league. I think Jalen Hertz will be a league winner this year if you draft. Like, just take him in the fourth round instead. of these running backs. You could get him in the 6th at times. You got Aaron Rogers, like down at 13. I find that intriguing too.

I trust him to produce. I joke that this is the first time ever that his fantasy ranking is higher than his number. Oh, the thing is he lost Avanti Adams and he doesn't run it all and he's been a quarterback who's been relying on like being Uber efficient the last couple of years. And with his receiving room, I know he's great,

he's Aaron Rogers, he's been on a spiritual journey and all that. I don't know if he's going to be able to duplicate. He's a tattoo that also, I would say, is very intricate, not unlike his. His is nice. His artist gets paid a lot of money, I'm sure. He's also, like, the back-to-back reigning MVP is 38. Is he just going to just win MVP every year at this point? Maybe he would be a guy I would stay away from.

I want to throw this name out here. And I like, I am not an expert like you guys, but I play the game. I have in my league of record the second overall pick. you said you were a two-time champion your league of record to be clear mark and i are not in that league like as you said it it almost sounded like you won the around the NFL league there's no such thing yeah this is the league of record going back to it with some chums from the late 90s

but i'm saying in my league of record i have the second overall pick i'm going to say three words christian mcalfrey help i mean i'm fine with it there i understand what if you drafted christian mcalfrey last year No, I get it. Who do you take? Who do you take? Who do you take?

If Christian McCaffrey's there, too, I'm taking McCaffrey. Just because, look, one, running back is especially fragile. Any guy can get hurt pretty much at any time. But when healthy, there aren't many guys who play the same number of snaps and get the same number of touches that Christian McCaffrey is going to get. And that's the thing that Florio and I talked about is, you know, what happens if they decide to maybe ease off and give him fewer touches? And my response is, Matt Ruhle has announced a self-preservation.

he's going to ride Christian McCaffrey because he is the best player on that team. So, you know, I would say they would rest him if this was a team that was locked in to make the playoffs and they just wanted to keep him healthy until January. Matt Ruhl wants to make sure he has a job this time next year. And so as long as McCaffrey is healthy, he's going to get 25 to 30 touches a game. And there just aren't many guys out there who can do what he does when he gets those number of touches. I'm a little surprised I'm going off fantasy football calculator here. He's going number two.

So, you know, 2.4 overall is where he's at ADP. I'm surprised more people aren't scared off by two straight lost seasons. The only thing to say is, like, he didn't have a catastrophic injury to a lower body. And he also, when he did play the last two years, he was still McCaffrey. Right. So you can imagine maybe there's some regression. There's literally no historical precedent from in Annivale history. Football outsiders did kind of a look at it.

Someone that was that productive, that early, and then missed two seasons like this. It's like, it's literally never happened. So it's tough to predict. But Lebeon Bell is like the type of guy where he was a superstar stud at running back. He was gone for a long time. And then he was just out of the league. I'm paper their offensive line looks way better. He had to do this behind some bad offensive lines.

They drafted Convo. The thing with him, though, is not only does he give you R.B.1 numbers every week, he gives you wide receiver one numbers every week because he's the only running back that's going to get you like 10 catches for 100 yards in a receiving touchdown. That makes me draft this guy, aren't you? Don't want to take him second overall? Don't. Don't.

Take Justin Jefferson. Yeah, I like that. Or cup. Eckler? Or Chase. Eckler's the old one of the cash. Yeah, go wide receiver. Yeah, go wide receiver.

It's too stressful. Pivots to Jefferson. I quit. If you're getting a point per reception, it's just like, you know you're going to be happy with those guys. And I kind of like the running backs at the end of the second round. This is one thing that annoys me about fantasy football because it's just like everything else with the NFL. Well, I'm not trying to have a softer to push you up, but you spend four months. It's mid-February and everyone's drafting and drafting and drafting and drafting.

You get 10 days into the regular season and everyone's rosters are shattered. I mean, I think if you're a newer player, shouldn't there be more off-season strategy and teaching of people to what happens when everything goes off the train tracks and it's like September 9th and your roster's gone.

One game's for play. You've got to scour that wire. But some people don't know how to scour the wire. It's like you'll be up at 2 in the morning doing it. No, I think that's fair. That's how I did it when I play. It was like, I'm going to beat these guys and get this guy. First of, like, you know, there's, there's the generates like us who are drafting, like, right after the Super Bowl.

And I will tell you this from past experience, having drafted, like, best ball teams, like, in February or March, I get to August. I'm like, what was I doing? These things are trashed. But, yeah, I mean, I think I always tell people, you know, who do a lot of drafts and do a lot of analysis. I always tell them, get in a draft with just casual fans. Get in a draft with, like, with your chum. Especially if you're, like, one of us that works for the NFL and then you just start throwing punches. You know, because it's fun, you know, when it's May and it's July and, like, we're talking about Isaiah Spiller, Isaiah Pacheco and like, hey, man, Damian Pierce is going to be something.

But, like, be in a draft with, like, your friends from high school who don't follow this and suddenly, like, three quarterbacks are gone in the first round. Like, that will teach you sort of how to deal with that chaos. And, yeah, I mean, I think part of our gig is to explain that to people. Like, how do you draft when things go sideways? How do you keep your roster afloat when, you know, suddenly the running back you draft? in the second round, you know, suffers an unfortunate injury and is going to be gone for eight weeks or more. You know, that's all part of the thing because, you know, you can't win, you don't win or lose your league on draft day. It really is a progression of what happens

in the season. It's, it's waiver wires. It's making trades. It's kind of staying up on that. So, like, you know, I feel like that's part of our responsibility is to kind of teach folks how to have a responsibility. Dan, so are you, is that how you won the title twice by doing but he is like, an NFL employee taking out ham and eggers and, like, laundry mat. I can tell you there's a lot to it. My last title, I had Alvin Kamara playing on Christmas Day and scoring six touchdowns. Yeah, that'll do it. That'll do it.

For more fantasy analysis from Marcus Grant and Mike Florio, listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast wherever you get your podcasts and stream the NFL Fantasy Football Show on NFL.com, YouTube, the NFL app, and the NFL Fantasy app, boys, you've said it all. We will be following you throughout the season and keep banking up, bro. you know you can't stop like you're going to take it down to the wrist in time if i'm allowed to here that's my only thing for pause but if they let me i will gladly do it you have to shave your forearms to have the extensive work i don't but the artist does they went over to make it

all right NFL fantasy guys thank you very much appreciate it all right there they go thank you to mike and marcus and the train keeps rolling on our next guest you may know him as rotopat Friends, call him Patty. We'll go with the formal name. Patrick Dardy, welcome back to around the NFL, our friend. Yeah, you go with my Brazilian soccer moniker, my one word name of Rodopat. Like you said, my friends just call me Pat. So we try to get it down to one syllable.

And so that's why I just call me Pat. How many friends do you have? You know, I've got several. Several. And several who live in the same town I live in, even. Oh, that's nice. I'd like to call you a friend, Roto Pat. I mean, we've barely ever met each other in real life, but we did work together.

He laid some of those bricks, Dan, back in this type of friendship with Chris wrestling. That's good. You were a bricklayer with Greg. That's how you do it. You build it online. You cement it with one or two real life meetings. Then you never meet in person again. And then you text about tennis.

All right. So Roto Pat, you are a. man that we turn to for the purposes of this exercise. You know, we call it cranky take. Cranky takes with Roto Pat. And I don't know if that's, is that set you up in the nicest light? I don't know. And this is Greg's idea.

So you can take it out with your close friend Greg Rosenthal. But we want to see some things where you're bucking against conventional wisdom in the fantasy realm as people get ready to draft. Things that people are hot on and you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop the clocks. Let's figure this out. Let's talk about it. Rotopad, give us some cranky tags, bro. First off, stop the clocks is an amazing phrase.

I don't know if I've ever heard anyone else to use it. I stole it from the Oasis best of combination. Now you found a way into my heart, friend. There you go. That is how Greg basically described in the segment. It's like, basically is come on to be cranky. I mean, this is who you are. We like to flatten out people's personalities.

We do not like nuance. We want you to be a cartoon. character. We're a two-dimensional show. Right, and you are, you do have some bite to your Twitter takes, and you are kind of in the system, but you also buck against the system. So, yeah, like what is, what is like a fantasy sort of conventional take right now that's not flying past rotopat? Well, no one has ever described me in such hip terms before. You are wearing a blazer. Like the fantasy James Dean, which is also not a hit term at this point. There you go. I'm the fancy James Dean just bucking up against the system and Greg I'm going to steal one from you

because I've been on like a whistle stop tour all summer trothing Leonard Fornett yeah yeah it's like a running back one and some people listening to the show I literally it's like my stump speech I've already said this like I was in Topeka I said it I was in council bluff I said it was in Wachigan Illinois I said it so sorry if you've already heard me say this but like I feel like it's been memory hold that Leonard fornet was was a healthy scratch, like literally three or four weeks before he was Lombardi-Lennie. Like, he totally is backed end of the job. And then, you know, did a decent job with it. I guess I can't deny that.

But, you know, he's been living off these receptions and fantasy. And he's just not a good pass catcher. He's not an efficient pass catcher at all. It's just like the definition of empty volume. And he's not the most efficient runner. He's a little more efficient than you would maybe assume. It's like looking at his raw counting stats. but he's not terribly explosive after first contact anymore.

And when you look at the bucks breaking a three new starters along their interior line. Oh, yeah. Again, he kind of like bumbled into this job. But the bucks see the same things I see where they've taken another day two shot on a pass catching back in Rashad White. And I think people sometimes just kind of assume that since Kishan Vaughn didn't work out, like the rookie has no chance to just work out in the Tom Brady led offense. It's been like a pretty solid summer for Rashad White.

His 80. I was going to say his ADP is in the second round. You would, I mean, you'd kill me before I would take Leonard Fournett in the second round of a draft in 2020. Is that because the running back, like, you know, scene in general falls off a cliff after a certain number of them? It does. It does. And but he's got like the two like magic things in fantasy where he has goal line carries and receptions. but he doesn't score as many touchdowns as you would expect,

I think partly because Tom Brady is so wildly efficient in the red zone. And I just don't believe in those receptions remaining there. You know, not to mention all the other stuff where he's starting to have durability woes. He's having some conditioning woes. I mean, not to pass judgment. I have quite literally eaten cake four days in a row with my birthday last week. Different career. There's like the red flags are piling up for Leonard Frette.

A guy who I just feel like he's been living on borrowed time. And like the sharpest drafters out there. like the best ball drafters the people who draft on like underdog and they've got him they seriously got him as an rb one and i just for the life of me cannot figure it out it feels like hitting on like 17 you know it's just like taking it's like the classic you know like when a team signs a free agent and they get like 10 sacks and like instead of just letting them go and trying to find the next version of that player the team resigns them to like a three year 36 million dollar deal like shack bear immediately go back to being a bust yes that's exactly what i feel like it's

happening with london for now i think there's extend your blackjack analogy like in blackjack if the old lady at the end of the table mildred hits on 17 you get up off the table and you walk but when you're if you're in a fantasy league with someone taking Leonard for net in the first round oh get comfortable buddy because it's good to have chum in your league right west and i would settling in west and i would talk about this one of like there there's there almost seems to be a hesitance in fantasy now because it's very analytical and that you know people are making a lot of money and there's a hesitance to ever even evaluate if they're good at football or not.

Like, because that has been proven over time to be very difficult to do. But I think you can look at a guy like Fournette or some of these other running backs. I keep hitting this at that point, like a James Connor or An Aker's, or I would even throw Giovante Williams in there. Like, Leonard Fornett hasn't been that effective

for the team that hired him to be effective in the vast majority of seasons in which he played football. So that's data, too. Like, I think you can make the assessment that that big of an up and down player is such a risk at that point in the draft when you've got basically money receivers and money quarterbacks or other positions that you can take. Investing in situation over the player is sometimes a necessary evil,

but it's just like I think with Leonard Fernette there are enough red flags at this point where I just like don't believe in the situation strongly enough to overlook the fact that like you said, he's just never been a good NFL. He's never been horrible, but at best, he's a league average. All right. So who else you cranky about? Don't bet on those guys. Who else you cranky about, Roto?

Well, he mentioned James Connor, and he's really in, like, the exact same boat as Leonard Furnett, and he's going in, like, the exact same ADP range. And it's just, again, something I'm just surprised to see from, like, the shart drafting community. Because, again, it seems like running it back with last year's bargain. I mean, James Connor was, like, quite literally, like, a league winner for a lot of people last year because there was zero expectations for him. there was so much chase edmund's hype but he was so so so touchdown reliant 15 touchdowns

he's someone who's appeared in more than 14 games one time in his career and that was last year with 15 like he is like the definition of a league average runner he's in a little more all over the map as a pass catcher or he said some pretty effective past catching seasons but he's another guy we're like even if he stays healthy like i think the ceiling is probably like 10 to 11 touchdowns. He's going to be someone you wish you had taken in the fourth or fifth round. But to get him, you have to take him in the second or third round. And it's just the class, instead of taking James Connor, I'm just trying to find who this year's James Connor. Who are some guys that you're almost cranky that like people aren't giving them enough

love? Like, why don't they, why don't they see what Roto Pat sees? Tyler Lockett, who is a guy, I usually don't want to draft because he's kind of got like the nonsensical narrative. Like Tyler Lockett's like almost a player where you have to believe in superstition because like every year he has the numbers no matter what but it always seems like he only does it in four games he's always very very super frustrating he's also like a licensed relitter that's a problem that's a red flag he's no he's a polymath um he's like straight line from thomas jefferson to tyler locket he's a man of many arts and principles but he's going is quite literally the wide receiver 48 an underdog wow yeah he's going as the wider see

36 on ESPN. You know it's freaking everyone out. Isn't that a Gino Drew Locke effect a little bit going on there? It is. But also, like, there is a baseline to any off. People are drafting the Seahawks wide receivers as if they're going to attempt 15 to 20 passes a game. And like that might be like Pete Carroll's like wildish dream, but like they're still

going to attempt 2530 to passes per game. Like every NFL team essentially has to. And it's an extremely narrow target tree. Both Tyler Lockett and Deacon. fantasy term there like that narrow target tree exactly they're going to command massive target shares like tyler locket you might not be top 24 but like he's going to i like it's probably going to have another i like that he's very post like those are great players to take that have here established as great players that for some reason have no buzz here are the five wide receivers

that are going just ahead of tyler locket and drafts right now allan lezard totally unproven with Perrin Rogers. New Hopkins, who's not even playing football until the end of October. Robert Woods coming off an ACL on a new team. Christian Kirk, again, a projection on a new team in Jacksonville. That was a wipeout last year. Cadarius Tony with the Giants, need I say more. And then Tyler Lockett. All right, I like him too, but it's like he's Daniel Jones is a quarterback. And that's a big projection. Lockett, yes, I understand Russell Wilson has gone. I'm with you. I hear you on that. Give us another one. Get cranky. Well, you mentioned some of the guys.

First, DeAndre Hopkins, like, we talk about injury optimism and fantasy. Like, you know, I know this guy's not going to play for a while, but I'm going to stash him. And when I make the playoffs, it's got out of here with your stashes. And so, sorry, it's not injury optimism. Of course, it's suspension optimism with DeAndre Hopkins. And sure, in theory, he could be like a second wide receiver one or two for you in the playoffs. But in order for that to happen, you have to make the playoffs. and you are severely hurting your odds of making the playoffs

if you're carrying a dead roster spot for literally 50% of the fantasy season because he suspended for six games, then they have their buy in week 13. So you know, by definition, Dionneur Hopkins will not be playing for at least 50%. So cranky! Fantasy season, I'm very cranked. So I shouldn't stash like Antonio Brown for that November signing

that happens every season. No, maybe even a Dynasty League. Then, you know, it doesn't matter. They're like, that's just like free. The roster, it doesn't mean, you just roster anyone in a dynasty. If you're watching us on YouTube, you can see rotopats got a nice bookshelf behind him, wearing a nice blazer, classing up. But there seems to be a bust of like an historical figure.

I'm just curious. That's Mark Twain, who is that? Who is that your boss? This is Mr. Marcus Twain. Okay, Mark Twain. Missouri great. Are you trying to, I mean, you're trying to make it clear to us that you're very literary

with the background, which I don't disapprove of. That's a Missouri thing, yeah. So I've read a book. Don't get me wrong. I've read a book. And if I opened, you know, I would be able to, if I open any one of these books to any one page, I'd probably know at least five to ten of the words. Do you have any cranky takes because we haven't talked about tight ends yet and kind of a funky positional group in fantasy right now?

Do you have any cranky takes at the tight end position? Well, I have a cranky take about someone who's essentially a tight end, Alan Lazard. Am I right, folks? Hey! Not really a receiver. he's a 6 foot 5, very, very, very slow. But so Alan Lazard, I will just say really quick at Al-Lazard. Sure.

Aaron Rogers says he's the number one receiver. Aaron Rogers also says a lot of things. Alan Lazzard just seems like a player without a second gear. I just do not see it happening. A tight end... What's your strategy at tight end? It seems like a strange time in the fantasy tight-end world right now. It is.

The top six or seven, there's like a huge drop-off after like the Dalton Schultz, Dallas Goddard zone. And Schultz is like the tight in six. And that's frankly kind of like the cutoff of like safely projectable targets and production. Like even Dallas Goddard, T.J. Hawkinson gets a little shaky because we don't quite understand the nature of the Eagles offense. T.J. Hawkinson has like really robust target competition for the first time in his career. And then where I kind of get cranky is Dawson Knox where I feel I feel bad because I like big play players.

He's an explosive play threat, but I think it was nine touchdowns and like 73 targets last year. That's just totally unsustainable, like classic textbook touchdown regression waiting to happen. And the way you offset touchdown regression is by increasing your targets. But I just don't see how he can increase targets with like the rise of Gabriel Davis. Then I mean like improving their slot situation by swapping out Cole Beasley for Isaiah McKinsey and Jameson Crowder. And it just seems like going to be like a classic touchdown regression season for Dawson. Now, this could be, he might just be, like, truly best friends with Josh Allen, which actually is the buzz.

And maybe he'll be the preferred guy in the red zone. That's our friend Adam Levitton's shower narrative. Oh, yeah. Exactly. If they're friends, if they're taking the showers together in the locker room, then, then, uh, that can mean a lot of things. Right. That is a narrative.

Many, many, many, many. Are you, are you buying into the Kyle Pitts becomes God this year? Yes. I am, but also Marcus Mariotto, what was like his defining characteristic as a passer and to not make anyone God. like under any circumstances? He's not a guy that would like put you in position to make big plays. Like he did not attempt dangerous throws.

That Monday night football game was a perfect example. Kyle Pitts destroys the Jets cornerback on the outside playing wide out and picks up a 40-yard gain from Marietta, but it would have been a 70-yard touchdown if someone else was throwing that path. When I'm seeing Kyle Pitts as the 40th overall player, but they're suggesting that Antonio Gibson, who has been operating with the third team and returning kick, is the 31st. Mark's like, I'm the only one that could be cranky on this show.

Shut down, road open. I'm backing your point. I mean, you're telling you to take, they're telling you to take J.K. Dobbins over George Kittle. So, yeah, this whole, like, that, we've been talking about how that round that looks weird for running backs. No, you're right out of here.

That round, that area is weird. So I'm going to stand on a table here. I'm going to have a cranky take. All right, go ahead. I mean, Pitts and Kittle, if you could get a guy like Kittle who is going in the first round, like a year ago or two years ago and it's still in the middle of his prime

and is going in the fourth round take that guy now is the time like that is an area where I don't like the players being taken that much the running backs and even some of the receivers definitely pits kiddle fourth round do it it's time there's a fantasy truism

Greg hijacking your segment there's a fantasy truism about tight ends is that the kiss of death in fantasy is you do not want a tight end to be a good blocker you just do not want to tell you want them to be horrible you want them to be like mike josecchi out there like feigning a block and then just like running around his guy and like catching a 12 year pass george kittles is too good at blocking and you know it gets him hurt a lot too

he's like such a ferocious blocker like the kiddle negative case he was 71 for 910 last year you know last year negative kiddle case is like how much is this offense really going to pass as we like transition to the train but i i've been driving on it's like how many i couldn't I like the guys who have 200-yard games every season, and George Kittle does that. He does that, but to the durability point, that's the thing. Is he going to miss two games or is he going to miss eight games? And, you know, it's a 13-14-game season. Only one time did he miss significant games.

So it does feel like he's always hurt. All right. But those two guys. Streisand effect. Pitts especially. I was getting flashbacks because we were in London for the Pits' Falcons Jets game. And then it was on Monday night football. He's a great young player

Can you guys take me to London with you one of these years By the way Just come I mean we won't pay for you But if you come We will We'll take showers with you If you bring this cranky energy

You're going to be sitting next to me We will have you as an unpaid guest On our live show But we will have free beers From all the listeners who are there To ensure I'll be cranky I'll stow away in the wheel well Of your chartered jet

And so I'll be very very cranky When I get there Pat Dardy, how about a plug before we say goodbye. I mean, just everything. Keep it locked to NBC Sports Edge, Roto World. It's the final weekend of the preseason, which doesn't mean what it used to.

I mean, most these guys... But the name Roto World is back. I'm actually on a show with you, Roto Pat, where they drafted alumni or mock draft. People should check that out. We were actually asking you to plug us, but that's okay. Whatever it is you're on...

I'm saying that's on Peecock or that's on NBC. Let's not bury the lead. Roto World is back. Roto World is back. NBC Sports Edge. I'm not here to talk about the past, but Roto World is back. Matthew Barry said he was integral in bringing it back. That was part of his negotiation.

That was my theory. You were right. You were right. What happened to the marketing executive that came up with the NBC Sports Edge? That person's operating in a different industry at this point, I'd imagine. Mark, I'm not here to talk about the past. Yeah, there are no reverse gears in the tank of Roto Path. Thank you, our friend, and we will catch up to you down the road.

I hope we'll think. There he goes. Patrick Dardy. That was good. We did him dirty last time because we had all these technical problems. So it was nice to have. It's nice to just have it nice and clean. Nice and smooth.

Clean like your face these days. You're shaving daily. You're not just shaving, but it's every day. By daily. Okay. Today was one of those days. I am not a hairy guy, so I don't have to shave every day. Above your lip, though, you can notice some hair growing in slowly.

I'm not saying it's whiskers, but you could tell where it would be growing. Right. That's kind of like the old man thing when you start to get older. All of a sudden you shave. and it's still like right under there. Like, your time's running out. Yeah, stay in house. Stay in your house.

All right, we have three guests down, four guests down. One very special fish to go after the break. Fatal Fantasy. Welcome back. Oh, yeah. Where's that song been on show? You know that, of course, is the theme. song for our next guest, co-founder of Establish the Run, brick-by-brick layer over at

Rota World Once Upon a Time, and now making yet another appearance on the fantasy extravaganza. Evan Silva. What's up, Big Fish? A lot. I mean, this is my busiest time of year. And it's also the second podcast in the same day that I've done with Greg Rose. Rosenthal, so definitely getting my full, my full of Greg Rosenthal today. Yeah, welcome to our world.

Yeah. It's a lot. Yeah, that was the aforementioned alumni draft. People should check out over at, over at Roto World, when you, where you did the damn thing, Evan, and then you left them high and dry. And now you're really out competing them, I think, in the marketplace. Establish the run is getting done. We just had Roto Pad on from that company. Just saying they're getting it done.

Hey, listen, there's a lot of pie and everybody's taking a slice and eaten up. How about that? Does that be a winner and a loser at all times, Greg? Always. The big fish is gobbling it all up. Fish, listen, it's so great to have you on again. We hold you, as you know, in such high esteem.

And there's a reason why you're batten clean up here with our guests because I think it's time to get to where Evan Silva, man, that obviously thrives in this world for a living. We want to get your insight as we enter the 2022 season. I think a good place to start is at wide receiver here. There are a couple players to you that are jumping off the paper for you good and bad. Let's start with a player that everyone absolutely loves. He's heading to Canton based on his Green Bay trajectory, but he ain't in Green Bay anymore.

Let's talk to about the Adams. Yeah, I mean, this is a player that I'm down on relative to ADP this year, average draft position. for the rookies out there. Devante Adams consistently goes in the top eight, top 10 of fantasy drafts. And I think that people just kind of assuming that he's going to be able to roll over his production that he got with Aaron Rogers.

He's downgrading quarterbacks from Aaron Rogers to Derek Carr. He just got paid one of the biggest contracts in NFL history for a wide receiver. He's about to turn 30. And if you look at the target competition that Devante Adams is going to have to deal with, with the Raiders, Darren Waller and Hunter Renfro in particular. He never had to deal with that much target competition when he was in Green Bay.

And that's part of what led to his greatness. I mean, consistently averaging 10, 12 targets per game. And I think that his targets per game are to come down a little bit. His efficiency per target is going to come down a little bit with the Raiders. I still think he's going to have a good season. I mean, I have him as the number 17 overall player right now. But that is well below his ADP because he consistently goes in the top 10. I want to just take a moment here, Evan.

On the screen behind us, I'm assuming you can see it. Can we put up what this graphic, please? The 55th. Bear with us for a second. Fantasy extravaganza. Mark rarely goes into the, you know, having a setup like this. I'm excited to see what happened. All right.

So look at that. I mean, this is, if you, I know, One of the best Twitter accounts on Twitter is yours. And it is just chock full of football information. But I noticed at some stage that the profile pick changed to this. And I would like to just ask you about the approach. I see some real sort of Zaddy energy viving off of this. It's a McCarthy energy.

Sure. What is your strategy here? It just was a funny picture that would say that's in Cape Cod. That's right in Provincetown, right in the strip. in Provincetown. I was hanging out with Pat Thorman, fellow ETR writer, formerly of a pro football focus. And we were on the back of a rickshaw, okay, riding through the center of Provincetown. And I don't know, someone took that picture and I was just like, and then someone put it on Twitter. And then I was just like, screw it. I'll just make it my profile thing. I mean, it's kind of

funny. There is to it, no doubt. And just to prove that I've on the show, for one for a reason beyond this kind of nonsense. You talked about Devante Adams as someone that you're down on and compare to others. Is there a wide out out there that you could suggest to drafters? Maybe this guy is not being looked at the way he should be. He was better than we think.

And people are going to hate this. And people are going to absolutely hate this. But, you know, I don't care. I wanted to come strong. You know, I wanted to kind of dog down on a big-time producer and prop up a guy that disappoints everyone every year. And that's Sammy Watkins.

You're not doing this. You're doing it. Fish. I am doing it. Oh, my God. But you can get him in the last round of your draft almost every time because no one wants to take him. I mean, I draft him in the 18th round every time. He has already earned a starting job in Green Bay. If you look at the receivers that, I mean, Aaron Rogers is a teammate elevator. Everybody remembers the year that James Jones. Everybody thought that James Jones was washed. and he came in and scored a bunch of touchdowns. I think Sammy Watkins can be that guy this year. People want to make Alan Lazard to be that guy.

And he probably is higher probability to be that guy, but you have to draft him in the sixth round. With Sammy Watkins, you could take him the 18th round. You know, I think he's going to have a number of good weeks. He'll probably get hurt at some point. I mean, he's already been hurt early in training camp. He had a hamstring. But for a guy that you can get that late,

who's going to be a starter with Aaron Rogers in three receiver sets, I think that that's the kind of guy that you want to pull the trigger on late in your draft. I love that. Because to me, he seems like a guy who will spike up five weeks and be absolutely worth starting in fantasy leagues.

And that's one thing I like about you, Silva. You swing for the fences. You were crushing these people in this draft that I was watching. I just liked what he did in each round. It was just like he was wiping the floor with them. Very nice. Who are some late round?

We haven't talked kind of like deep running backs. I've been honking a lot about guys who are overvalued. But if you're going to avoid those types of guys, who are some running backs in the round seven maybe onward that you like? I think the guy that pops out to me most right now is Damien Pierce. Because it's so rare that you see a fourth round player sat in the second preseason game treated like a starter. And that's what we're seeing right now from Damian Pierce.

The Texans absolutely love him. Actually, Aaron Wilson, you know, who covers the Texans. Actually, was DM in me yesterday about how much the Texans love him, how much he believes in him as a player. And his competition in Houston right now is Rex Burkhead who, look, we all love Rex Burkhead, right? But he's like 33 years old. You love him more than most.

We used to have some. Okay, that's true. Rex Burkhead and your love for him has been around so long. that I think we debated about it seven years ago. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But now he's 33 years old. He is still playing on passing downs, but he's like a designated pass protector.

He's not a guy they're trying to feed the ball to. And Marlon Mack is one of these Achilles victims. No running back has ever successfully come back from an Achilles tear, at least not within the first couple years of that recovery time period. That's an absolute killer at the running back position. So, and Damian Pierce has looked so good. In the first preseason game, he was outstanding. Josh Norris has really beaten, he was beating the drum for Damian Pierce even before all of this, even before the draft, talking about him as a sleeper, was heavily underutilized at Florida by Dan Mulling.

He's really good in the passing game. The cuts, the vision that he has shown so far. I mean, he's just a really impressive talent, and I think the Texans got a steal. and I mean, I think this guy could win offensive rookie of the year. Like, I think he's legit, really good. And that says run heavy a team as there is in the league, even last year when they were terrible offensively. And I'm glad it keeps coming up because he's always on our mind.

And you think fantasy, you think Wes. And Wes used to say a lot like this evaluation period through the summer into preseason, look out for the young running backs, the guys that maybe aren't at the top of a draft board, but are flashing and showing themselves to be explosive because they can hit the ground running. Now, I want to say, I want to tee this up. Last year on the fantasy extravaganza, big fish, you were very bold about fading another big animal. Let's listen in. Derek Henry has averaged 106 total one yard, 106 total yards and over one touchdown per game and wins, only 50 yards and 0.3 TDs in losses. You're not going to get, he hasn't had a 20

catch season in college or the pros. That's almost a decade worth of sample size. So I think that this is going to be the year that we see the big dog fall. And indeed, the big dog did fall. It was injuries. And, you know, you could say workload that contributed or just bad luck. Whatever it was, the big dog, Derek Henry after a monster few seasons winning fantasy leagues did fall off. Are you out on the big dog forever? Or are you now on the big dog train after a relatively down to your end. You know, on the plus side, yes, lower body injuries, but a lessened workload significantly entering 2022.

Yeah, I mean, he's just, he's really a major injury risk because we know how the Titans are going to use him. He's going to, but, you know, that also gives him a ton of upside. We actually just talked about him on the, the Roto World Show, with Matthew Bear. We had this same exact conversation. And it's like, you can build a really good bulk case for him. and you can build a really good bear case against them.

It's just, are you willing to take the risk on Derek Henry? I think the Titans are going to be much worse than they were. Last year, you heard those statistics on him in wins versus in losses. He's not going to catch a ton of passes. So he's just, I think he's a classic boomer bus player. And so therefore, it's a personal preference deal as to whether you want to invest in a player like that. A question for you, because the other thing you can track, I think, during this preseason time, in these games, offensive line play, which is, I think, obviously, about his core and critical as

gets for any offensive unit. And I look at a team like the Steelers, there's quite a spicy group of skill position players. And it starts with, like, their wide outs, Naji Harris, I mean, George Pickens, when you're watching Mitch Trubisky, and it could be Kenny Pickens' picket playing quarterback, and they're running for their life. Does it, for you, does it affect in a major way or in any way where you would put their skill position players? Do you downgrade than because of that? Yeah, yeah, I would say so. We have, I think, the best offensive line analyst in media working for us and

Brandon Thorne. And he does his offensive line rankings. And he has the Steelers very near to the bottom. It's a big concern. I think with Najee Harris, he can kind of overcome that because he projects for so much volume that sometimes it doesn't matter. But, I mean, the complexion of the offense, how many points are they going to score? you know what is naji harris touchdown upside um you know so it's uh yeah i mean it's it's absolutely

something that that we factor in it's also you know and it goes the other way too like with philadelphia it makes me want to like miles sanders more because we we have uh the eagles as like the number one offensive line in the league it makes me want to like miles sanders more than his adp no one wants to draft mile sanders he follows the eighth ninth round all the time and if they were to get Karim Hunt, which has been heavily rumored. I mean, that would be a fantastic fit in Philadelphia, Kareem Hunt behind that O line. I mean, they have a punishing offensive line.

Right. I like, I think you look at this time of year and you mentioned Pierce is a guy that flashed. Brian Robinson is another. I'm just got to throw out some late later round picks. Brian Robinson is one that seems like he's still going late. Ramandre Stevenson, I'm surprised actually doesn't have more buzz because he's a Patriots runner who you mentioned playing all three downs he's he's a power goal line back that can play third downs and i think that's been overlooked ken walker who's he's going to get dinged because he's not

going to be ready for weeks one or two who knows if he even misses a month but he might be a guy worth stashing james cook i'm just throwing a bunch of names out tell me who you like or you don't like out of that group darrell henderson i'll throw in there too as yeah no no i like pretty much all those guys except for Kenneth Walker, and that's because I think that he's going to get a very much a late start behind Rashad Penny. Do you remember how good Rashad Penny was down the stretch last year? I mean, over the final five games. We were there. We were there in person, Big Fish, the three of us for the Tuesday afternoon spectacular. You might not remember it. Like NFL fans might not remember, but a 20 to 10 classic where the Seahawks went down, but Penny had a monster game.

I think about it all that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Rashad Penny was. like the best running back in the NFL for the final couple months of last year. And they want to run the ball in Seattle. So I'm going the other way on Kenneth Walker. And I'm pivoting to Rashad Penny. So Penny things popped up on this show as well because he was so dominant for that small stretch. But, I mean, he was an afterthought in the league and in Seattle's backfield for so long. We couldn't stay healthy.

We're banking on now. He'd put it together for a full year. That's quite a risk. I mean, he's not getting drafted until. like the 30th running back. It all depends where you take it. And this is sort of where, I think we're all in the same boat fantasy-wise

of take big swings. We said that before with Wes. That's a guy who to me showed Derek Henry like ability, but you can take him late in the draft. And if he gets hurt, you know, you'll live.

You'll live. Hey, guy was a first-round pick in the NFL. I mean, and you go back and look at his speed score, his, you know, which is like the combination of the size and the weight plus the speed,

I mean, he was a speed score freak, according to football outsiders coming out of college. Just he could not stay healthy his first few years in the NFL. He's going to get the ball a ton to open the season. Do you, when you're out on the town, I mean, you're all over the place. Everyone plays fantasy, moms, dads, kids, nieces, nephews. Do you get recognized at like nightclubs and eateries and cafes? No, man. No, no, no.

One time at the Bulls game when I was with, my daughter at a bulls game some guy like pulled me aside and my daughter thought it was like the coolest thing was a guy that matter i was like all embarrassed yeah how's the motor though you're like you're what 16 17 years into the game now 18 something like that geez um and you famous motor you know big time talent famous motor that's how you become like a fantasy hall of famer you know are you like in the Tom Brady phase, though, where you need to, like, go hang out with the daughter for a couple weeks

and, you know, it feels like a lot. Go on the mask singer. Right. Like, how's the motor? Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. The motor is still pretty strong.

It's not what it was, you know, in the very, very early days. I mean, I would literally, I mean, I would wake up at 7 a.m. He was, it was insane. Go get some coffee and work until I went to bed every single day. Like, every single day.

And I just want to say, you're on your purpose. I just want to say. I remember. And at one point. you were you were you were questioning whether we should even keep Adam Levitant in the football space

Why does Greg need to do this thing? And now he's your partner. I don't know. He's creating division. And who talked to you into like, no, we got to keep Levitan going. He's all day long with that. Greg's instincts always impeccable. How about this?

You got to say to Silva, class act to even talk to Greg after their feud over Sam Darnold last year. I don't know if you guys want, do we have something here at Grape? I don't want this. One more clip. I'm going to go like with some deeper sleepers here. And I'm going to start off with a guy who's, you know, has been near and dear to your heart, Dan. Maybe no longer.

But he's a guy by the name of Sam Donald. Oh. Yes. And so we know that the post. Well, that's what most people are going to say. So, you know, I know. You hear that pupe noise? That was Greg.

That was Greg. That has stuck with me. It's not personal. That is stuck with me. Now, I get a lot of heat from listeners for, you know, being loyal on some level to Darnold's ability. But I guess I have to go and I don't know if you're with me, just take the L on Sam at this point.

Well, if you go back and play the full clip, I explain that he was a good early season, a bridge to like Trey Lance or Justin Fields. That's where I really got that analysis wrong. I mean, those guys were never factors, you know. But Sam Darnold actually was good early in the fantasy season. Silva says he's taking the W on Greg. I like it. I mean, he's a collapsing bridge.

Like all the cars just fell into the water and they died. And really the only reason that he was good in a fantasy because he was getting rushing touchdown. Yeah, that was weird. That was a funky three weeks in the NFL universe or four weeks. Evan, thank you so much. And again, you have your own theme song that was curated specifically for you. Fits you.

The Fatal Fantasy from the Rights Free Library. So that just shows the respect we have for you. Thanks so much for having me, guys. Goodbye to Evan Silva. Thanks, Evan. The Big Fish. Establish the run. You're the best. Check out that website.

It's elite, just like Silva. His matchups column during the season. Incredible read. You got to pay for it now, and it's worth paying for. Turn it up in my headphones. That's like an epic column. Oh, I like this. Can you, like, picture Sessler in, like, a West Hollywood club?

Tonight. Sweating heavily dancing his ass off. Like, usually you'd have to change out of your work clothes, but he's ready. He's there. Mark, your new shirt today. I've waited a long time, and now it's the end of the show. Unbelievable. Bringing in this beautiful...

It's just a new shirt. Oh. And you didn't even roll up to sleeves, dad style. I think it's because you're showing respect for the extravaganza. I wanted to let you know it because I think you were questioning my... Did I question it, Greg?

On the last show, there seemed to be some question whether or not, because I did my hand motion thing. And I'm trying to show you that I did care about this episode very much. Well, no, you are like, you're a multi-talented guy. You can do fantasy. You can do reality. You can do football.

You can do basketball. I can do basketball if needed. I mean, I don't, I think you'd have to go pretty deep down the roster for that need. You've done it? You've proven yourself. Here we go. Whoops.

Let's go again, Graver. You can do football. You can do basketball. All right. Football is completely different than basketball. Look, I support you, Mark. Thank you. I love you also.

I sometimes don't wear, like, new clothing to wear on the show just because I just don't want to deal with Dan's comments. You're going to go through the verbal car wash on some little. I feel like you guys are so self-conscious about your clothing. It's weird. Like, I don't even, like, I don't say anything negative or critical. I'm not conscious of it all until you talk about it. Wait a minute, back the truck up just a few feet.

All I say is like, oh, new shirt. And then at the waterfall, self-doubt. And I'm like, what did I do? No, actually, like, I wasn't even thinking about it. But you came in and it wasn't just, hey, nice shirt, it was like, you stood there for four or five minutes purring at me. Okay. Well, that's not what your narrative or your description is not accurate.

I said, whoa, Mark. I liked that. And I was not upset with your reaction. But then it was like, I think that sometimes you to the listener try to aim your, suggest that your intentions are one thing. And when you're in the room, you can feel that it might be tilted a little bit differently. You know what? If you guys are not wearing new shirts, don't you guys us.

Because you don't want me to notice and comment positively. on your new shirt. It's like, that's a weird thing. That's on you guys. That's a YP. That is, I mean, we get out of this show works. I mean, there's no point in arguing it just adds minutes to the runtime.

You know, you two are unbelievably unannoying to hang out with most of the time. Why did the quality of the mark drops just go through the roof lately? We've got some bangers. I don't know. All right, before we say goodbye, I think one of the traditions of the show

that we've done in past years had been sharing a bit of fantasy advice before you go into your drafts. You don't need to hear anything more from us. But we did ask Grave Digger and the gang to go through the archives and share a little Chris Wessling fantasy advice, and I think it will enrich all of us.

Let's hear it. You absolutely do not have to be unemotional in fantasy football. This is a hobby meant to be enjoyed. So be emotional. Right. Grab your guy. That's true. That, I love that.

I love that. Don't worry about the ADP. If you want to, and West talked about this a lot, if you want to root for a player on Sundays, go get them. It will make it even more enriching, especially if the guy you believe in in, like, well, definitely don't pick players that you don't like

or that you totally distaste because it's a conflicting energy. And, I mean, I get that some people are in this to make a lot of money and you want to be as logical and strategic as possible, but there's a big chunk of people that just would like to have fun, and it helps a lot of people learn about football and pick the players you enjoy. Right. Don't worry about the average draft position

because here's the thing. If you just pick the players that you do like or even sometimes from your team or that probably has almost exactly the same accuracy rate as if you just pick the conventional wisdom stuff. The biggest thing here is chance. And yes, over time you can. gain certain strategic advantages. But in a one given league and one given season,

it's mostly going to come down to luck. And, you know, luck is a thing. But we are 57 for 57 in these fantasy extravaganzas. We've knocked it out of the park. Thank you to all of our guests today who did such great work. Hit me with the music as we say goodbye here. Big Fish Evan Silva. Mike Florio, Marcus Grant, Matt Harmon.

Rodo Pat, Patrick Darity, all awesome guests. Best of luck to all of you in your fantasy drafts. Kill it, have fun, be merry, and don't drink. Drink after the draft. Not before. Till Thursday, heed the call. And now an update on free agent ticket sales rep, Rhonda Fontaine. Our last look at this individual came during our fantasy breakout in 2018.

Shortly after the heavy drinking Fontaine was cut loose by the Packer's sales department following a public meltdown triggered by her breakup with on-again, off-again boyfriend William Franks. As you'll recall, Fontaine took a Greyhound bus to Chicago, to live with her sister, Patsy Bummels. Fontaine told Bummels that she had a bead on a well-paid role with the Bears ticket office, but that was a fib. Instead, Fonte spent long hours day-drinking in her sister's basement

and mouthing off to Patsy's husband, 5'4 Gordon Bummels, who eventually kicked Ronda out of the house after she threw a Corrig coffee maker through a kitchen window during a Christmas Eve drunk. Out of moves, Fontaine's scan bulletin boards at the University of Chicago for shared rides and wound up catching a car

to Bloomington, Indiana in January of 2019, where she quickly shacked up with a bartender named Big Boy. Life seemed to be on the up and up with Fontaine, lowering her drinking and tapping the brakes on her heavy marijuana usage. Fontaine and Big Boy seemed to thrive during Corona. Fontaine gifted the 365-pound Big Boy with a Peloton bicycle, which they both used to lower their body fat percentages. Rhonda even penned a four-page handwritten letter to Patsy and Gordon Bumbles,

taking full accountability for her misdeeds in 20, She began to research the concept of moving to Indianapolis with Big Boy to take a $35,000 a year job with the cult season ticket department. However, it was then discovered by the Monroe County Sheriff's Department that Fontaine had hired a pair of husky teen boys to steal the Peloton bike from the garage of a neighbor up the street. Said neighbor, Mindy Charlemagne, chose to press charges, which sent Fontaine on the run. Ronda's last known moves were one, using Big Boy's U.S. Bank Corp. debit card to withdraw $280. Two, catching a Peter Pan bus line to Fort Worth, Texas. Three, using said debit card to pay for a $390 tab

at Tumbleweed Sports Bar in Fort Worth. Four, employing the same debit card to purchase two cases of Carlo Rossi Brand Merlot. Five, reportedly getting into a fist fight with a local librarian named Tina Mitz outside the Fort Worth Public Library and then six, completely going off grid. My advice to fantasy owners?

Rhonda Fontaine is a high-risk, high-reward prospect who will not last beyond round 11 in 12-team drafts. My advice to fantasy owners. Rhonda Fontaine is a high-risk, high-reward prospect who will not last beyond round 11 in 12-team drafts. Dynasty participants should consider her as soon as round 9. You heard it here first. This is an I-Heart podcast.