NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - 7 Make or Break Players

Episode Date: July 14, 2015

A room filled with some heroes -- Gregg Rosenthal and Marc Sessler – are joined by Daniel Jeremiah from the Move the Sticks podcast to discuss the latest news from around the league including Dez Bryant’s holdout and Greg Hardy’s reduced suspension (5:41). The guys also debate what players are facing a make or break year in 2015 (36:20).Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast is still beeping with the Move the Sticks podcast. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. That's right, the Around the NFL podcast. I'm your host today, Daniel Jeremiah. And ladies gentlemen, I don't believe in heroes. Wow. Total takeover.

The Zusser. is not here. And I know what you're thinking at home. You know, oh, is he on vacation? No, no. He's been fired. Dan Hansus is gone. Never to return again.

And in addition to my move the sticks duties, now, look, I fill in and do a little around the NFL. And I think this is going to be a good thing for all parties involved. I'm excited to have DJ here with us, of course. I'm here. Mark Sessler is also here. Chris Wesleyan and Dan are both taking their vacations while they could this week. So we're still calling it a vacation? Yeah.

He's gone. I don't want people to go too crazy. Okay. But I had this whole deal with DJ. And DJ was like, you know, I love the work you guys do. You know, I know I kind of play it up a little bit that I don't like the podcast. It's really just Hansis I don't like. That's it.

I don't like. So it all comes down. And so he said the minute you get Hansis out of the studio. He wanted me to fire him. I thought that's a little much. But once Dan was on vacation, I said, DJ, can you do the first show after Dan does after vacation? Can't wait. It's so nettlesome between.

you two, that we couldn't even all be in one studio together. I think that's telling. This thing has been going on for six, seven, eight months at this point. Look, Dan doesn't, he just doesn't get it. Okay. Look, I mean, there's a friendship that we all have a camarader. We were all athletes, you know, and with Dan, he just doesn't have that in common with us.

So it's just a hurdle that I don't know whoever be able to get over. What would you say your best sport was, Mark, you know, since we're all athletes? I played football for six years, and it was my first. best. That's not saying that I was even adequate at it, but it was probably my best. That classifies you as an athlete. It does. I like that. I'd ever play any football, but you know. What did you play? A little tennis. Tess is an athletic sport. That's good. You got to be athletic. You have to be athletic to do that. We won the state. How about that? That's big time. So, Daniel Jeremiah is here. I did not know you grew up in Alaska.

Did you grow up in Alaska? Daniel Jeremiah is here and Dan and Wes are not, but we soldier on it. I'm excited. This This is, it's going to be a big show. We're going to have some news to get to, and we're going to break down and let you know who won our best drafted teams that we did last week. I'm actually going to have DJ decide who drafted the best team. And then we're going to do something else a little different, something we call some players at the crossroads. Nice. I feel like I'm in the high school layup line right now.

Make or break players, you know, and guys really at the crossroads of their careers, we're pretty excited about that. But I guess let's just get into the news. Unless you want to bury Dan anymore. Sean just jumps in there. What's going on there? I would like to hear the crossroads one more time.

Yeah, okay. Crossroads one more of those. Wow. Oh, yeah. Well, back to the news drop, though. Normally, Dan goes, all right, let's get into some news. And he stops. You kept talking.

That's not my fault. Well, I didn't. I wasn't really ready to go right. But you said, let's get into the news. Sully getting aggressive right out of the gate. I'm sorry. Let's just realize, look, Dan's not here. Let's not reference him anymore.

Okay, that's good point. I do apologize. That's right. That's right. And for everyone that's worried why our normal producer, TD, is not here. and we have Sully behind the glass. Sully, why don't you tell us actually why T.D. is not here. TD is taking care of some home tragedy that he had, I guess, you could say.

It's toilet exploded. I was trying to avoid saying toilet exploded. Well, yeah, we have to explain. Or people are going to think something really sad happening? That's the most embarrassing reason I've ever heard of anyone missing work. I can't believe he admitted that. Toilet exploded, full of, like, soapy bubbles. I like that thing TD does when he says,

oh, I'll be working from home Tuesday. You're a producer of podcast. How can you do that from? There's nothing to do. He's not keeping it a secret, by the way. He's tweeted out, like, some sort of vine of this, you know, going on eight seconds of soapy bubbles coming down his toilet. So he's finally getting it fixed today.

After this podcast, later today, I'm doing my Move to Six podcast. So TD sent me the text message. I'm out tomorrow. I'll have some home repairs to get done. I have Sean and Brandon in to produce. Yeah, DJ, of course, if you've never heard of it, the Move the Sticks podcast, at least the second best podcast on NFL. It's a great listen.

It is a great listen. I don't know. I would probably still, in all honesty, put us at number three. Okay. You're working your way up? Yeah, look, Dave's been doing it a while. Coach's show number two? You guys are playing like 90s rap songs I grew up listening to.

So, I mean, look, there's some ground I have to make up, But I'm game. Okay, now that we know why TD is here, Sully, let's do it again. Let's do some news. And let's start with all the franchise players that their deadlines are up this week, July 15th, Des Bryant, Demarius Thomas, Justin Houston.

They have to get a deal done. Jason Pierre, Paul, we know he's not going to get a deal done by July 15th. So there's a lot of rhetoric building up. Again, that's Wednesday. We're taping this on Tuesday. Des Bryant made news this week saying he will not show up without a new contract. And it was a little confusing, well, show up for what?

And R. Rand Gettlin, now working for NFL Media, says he plans to miss training camp and intends to miss at least some games. Are we buying Des Bryant missing games? I'm buying it. I think he would. And to me, when I look at the leverage of the situation, I actually think Des Bryant has the leverage here.

Really? I do. And here I'll explain why. Dallas Cowboys this off-season have gone all in. Okay, they let DeMarco Murray go. Okay, that's the one subtraction. But then you take a shot on Greg Hardy, which is a big risk. You draft Randy Gregory, which is a big risk.

They went in early on Lyle Collins after the draft. Now, all that stuff's kind of gone away, but there was still some risk involved at the time they made that decision, and that could pay off nicely for him. but this has been an ultra-aggressive off-season. They've got a quarterback and Tony Romo with an ever-shrinking window. So Jerry Jones, you're trying to tell me last year, he's within a controversial call on that completion against the Packers

from being in a championship game. It's been 20 years, right, since the Cowboys have won the Super Bowl? 20 years. Jerry Jones is this close. A controversial call, he's in the championship game. And now all of a sudden he's going to say, you know what, I'm going to be a hardliner here. And note, we're going to stand on principle,

and we're not going to pay Des Bryant. If I'm Des Bryant's people, I'm saying, forget that. They're going to cave. They won a Super Bowl when one of their other star players, Emmett Smith, sat out in the regular season. But after years and years. And they basically panicked and gave Emmett everything he wanted because they started off that season poorly. That's right. Well, and they don't have DeMarco Marine.

If you don't have Dez Brian and you have to take that wide receiver group and shuffle everyone up a notch going into the season, they might have to start panicking. I don't think it's a terrible move by Des. I guess the question is you keep hearing that maybe financially this is, isn't the easiest thing for him to do to just sit out money. Wow. All right. We just break out all the old rap for DJ.

I didn't know we were allowed to do this. I'd been doing this on my podcast a long time ago. Well, TD should have told you that. Jeez. I don't. Could Des panic, though? I don't buy that Dez has the leverage. But you make a good point that he has more than you would in normal circumstances.

You're counting on that Jerry Jones is crazy and impulsive and desperately wants to win factor. This is a guy who gave Roy. Williams a lot of money. This is a guy that gave Ken Hamlin a lot of money. He gives a lot of people that are on the Cowboys too much money. Why wouldn't he give it to Des? But Mark made the point that I was going to, this is a guy who's made less than $12 million in his career, which is a lot of money. But from everything we hear that's been reported and stuff that's not been reported, he needs the money. And he's going to make more money this year, guaranteed the second he signs that, than he's made in the last four years combined. Here's a thing.

So make the money. Well, here's the thing, though. I'm going to go back to the leverage point. You have Troy Aikman, okay? Between Troy Akeman and Tony Romo, the quarterback position for the Cowboys, not good. We can agree on that, right? It was a train wreck. Between those two quarterbacks.

Chad Hutchinson group, on and on and on. They trotted out everybody. Did not work. Henson. I mean, so now he knows that if you have a chance to win, you have to have a quarterback. And now he's got Tony Romo here in the last little bit. this could be once Tony Romo's career ends, it might take him 10 to 15 years to find another quarterback

that's going to be adequate. If Jerry Jones, I don't see him foregoing a season, which he would be doing if this ended up being a prolonged holdout because I don't think if Des Bryant misses four, five, six games, this team is a playoff team. I just don't see, I don't see Jerry Jones taking that risk. I don't. It's a risk to sign him, but it's a risk.

It's just one player, though. You went 8 and 8, you went 6 and 10 even when you had Des Bryant. You can win games without Des, Brian. I think you have to look at the whole picture. And DeMarco Murray, take both those guys off that team? I think these are the types of things you say, though, a couple days before a deadline. I don't think this is the same Jerry Jones or the organization has shifted from the team that overpaid average players and swung and missed on some huge contracts way back when.

They seemed to be of sound mind. Their draft strategy has gotten better. And I don't think paying, you know, Des the money he's going to get at some point is a mistake. This is by some people's argument, the best receiver in football. And he certainly fits the Cowboys. Well, that's the thing is ultimately they're going to give him a lot of money. They're just arguing about what the structure is. And there's some talk that they're a little worried about guaranteeing him huge amounts of money right away because of how he's acted off the field.

And so they want to spread the money out. But you're right, maybe the agents, I think the agents would love to just have him hold out. And they think that's the smart financial long play. Des Bryant, I don't know if he is going to be able to miss the money and miss football. He loves the game. He couldn't even miss minicamp. He showed up. It's going to be fascinating to watch it.

It's definitely an interesting situation. I saw a comparison. I don't know if we did it on our site. I saw it somewhere where it put up the first five years of Calvin Johnson versus the first five years of Des, and the numbers are very comparable. But obviously, Calvin Johnson is a model citizen. That checks a little bit easier to write in that situation.

They're a little bit different, too, because I'll remember the Jaguars game from last year where Des Bryant goes on fire early and then vanishes for, like two straight quarters. He's not quite Calvin Johnson, but he's right there in that next group below him. And actually, so is to Marius Thomas. The other guy that, another wide receiver that's up for a contract this week, been reporting that he's not close to a deal.

We have Justin Houston. They're actually looking. We'll all know by Wednesday, so we'll see what happens there. I think Des Bryant, would you say, is the most likely to miss time during the season out of these guys? No one has held out as a franchise player since 2002. So it shows it'd be breaking... Well, you're giving up some money there.

You're giving up big money. Look, I would say Des Bryant is the only one. Justin Houston's situation is going to be interesting to me as well. That's when I keep an eye on. But here's the question I'll pose to you guys. When you look at paying a receiver, Des Bryant de Marius Thomas, I mean, you'd think on the field, you would say, okay, Des Bryant is worth more money.

But when you take everything and factor in everything, to me there's the factor of if I'm a general manager, I sleep well at night with Demarius Thomas having all that money. You maybe worry a little bit about Des Bryant. So I don't know that you can say, okay, this is no slam dunk. If Des Bryant signs, then Demarius Thomas is going to come up a little bit under that. Des Bryant signs. I think Demarius Thomas people are going to want to beat that contract.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a valid point. The Cowboys have stood behind Des from day one, no matter what's gone on. I think Jerry Jones is one of the people, the GM slash owners, that really, when he stands behind a guy, he doesn't go against that. But, yeah, in terms of who you can give that guaranteed money to sleep well at night and feel good, there's nothing not to like about Demarius Thomas. I just like Des better as a player. Des just going up and getting the football is on a different level.

Yeah, I'd be surprised if the DeMarius Thomas deal, if it doesn't happen now, I don't think there's going to be drama. I think he'll play, and then they'll give them a deal. Next year, Des, I think, could, you know, last a little bit longer. But they're almost playing a game of chicken right now. They're represented by two agents for a group that's coming together in CAA. And it's almost like I wouldn't be surprised. I don't think one deal is going to come early and then they copy it.

They're almost waiting to the last minute. Another big Cowboys story recently. This happened on Friday after we did our last podcast. Greg Hardy had his suspension reduced from 10 to four games. It seems like every suspension is getting reduced these days. Does this make you think the Cowboys defense and the Cowboys in general are a little more dangerous? Well, I mean, you put, if they can keep all these people on the field You've got a whole host of reasons why they might not be on the field

But when you look at Sean Lee, if he can stay healthy, there's going to be a lot of ifs here, Sean Lee can stay healthy. There's a guy at the crossroads right now. Sean Lee needs to stay healthy. He's a little slow on the trigger there. Come on, Sully, I said the word. There it is. Nice. There he is.

No, Sean Lee is at the crossroads, and I don't know that he's only, but when you look at that defense, Randy Gregory, he stays out of trouble, Greg Hardy once he comes off suspension, if you can get all these guys on the field in that front seven at the same time, and DeMarcus Lawrence is a player I really like, Tyrone Crawford is a young stud. I mean, those two guys, you put together these young guys and some of these veterans, golly, that front seven looks drastically different than what we saw last year. How about when it comes to Greg Hardy and Sean Lee, two guys that haven't played in a very

long time. I mean, how hard is it to get back into football shape? They're going to have the preseason and training camp and stuff, but still a long stretch since they've done anything. Here's the thing. If you're a player that is a speed player, so you look at your characteristics and this is where you hang your hat is on your speed and your athleticism, I think it's a major concern. You miss that amount of time. But Sean Lee makes his money off of his instincts, and that's not going anywhere. He'll be fine there. And Hardy, to me, is a power rusher. So he's a power player. So that, to me, won't be as big of a concern. Now, if you've got a Vaughn Miller or somebody like that, it loses a step, now, you know, you've got major issues.

But that's not really either one of these guys' game based off speed. They have to be so happy because, you know, signing Hardy was a risk, and it looked like it was a risk that really wasn't paying off like they hoped when it was 10 games. Now it's down to four. That was a weakness last year going into the season. It inspired such disgust. Mark Sessler famously had a segment on the podcast where he used 50 words to describe the Cowboys defense. none of them in glowing terms.

And that proved to me... I was wrong. Kind of wrong. Does he do this a lot? Does he say something you messed up and he brings it back? He's one of these guys? His callbacks typically will be at the expense of another member of the podcast. But I think that, you know, that was...

All right, hold on, hold on. Before we move on, I want to... Dan would never do this. Dan would just let this rift grow. And I'm not like that. I want you to say something that Sessler's got right. I like this. Sessler.

Oh, boy. This is tough. We're going to work through this, guys. We're going to work through this. Shouldn't be tough. Cessler gets a lot right every year. I need an example. I can't think of what his predictions were that were right.

Well, hold on, hold on. I just can't think of my own prediction. If you can't say anything nice about Cessler, then Mark, hold on. Now, Mark, then tell me how he screwed up. Let's balance this thing. No, I'll say something nice. His Cowboys content, that he did. I mean, it used some of the lyricism, the poetry, the gift of gab that people

know Mark Sessler for. So who cares? It's kind of like, you know, a lot of the guys on our network, who cares what they're saying? They're just good at saying it. That's why they get paid the big thing. A lot of ups and downs in that commentary there from Greg, but I think that's acceptable. You know, you did. You built a bridge there, DJ. I tried. Thank you. Thanks, DJ. Let's talk about Ken Stabler. We didn't get a chance to last time, And sad news, of course, that he passed away at age 69. It was last Thursday. It was confirmed right after we taped our last podcast.

He's a guy who's known second team, all NFL for the 70s. Some of his numbers were better than I realized, led the NFL in completion percentage in the 70s, was known for his two-minute drill, was known for kind of waiting back there and going second, third, fourth read, bombs away, taking chances. I mean, he had a five-year run. realize where he was truly one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. Do you have any Ken Stabler memories or thoughts, DJ? Well, a little young.

Yeah, we were a little young. Well, you're sneaky because you have the four kids. Yeah. And we were talking about before the show. Your youngest is now eight. Your youngest is now eight. So you're having children at roughly, was it 19, 20 years old? I got married at 22, and my wife got pregnant six months after we got married.

So we started early. So we have four kids. So I have a 14-year-old and 11-year-old, a 9-year-old. eight-year-old. So that's a profile of an older man, so I sometimes forget. No, I was still young with Ken Stabler. But this has been a situation where I didn't know as much about his career, but it's been fascinating to me. Obviously, the sad, sad situation with his passing, but getting a chance to read all these articles, John McLean, what he wrote in Houston, some of these stories, they're unbelievable. And you sit there and go, okay, with what

social media is now, I mean, can you imagine? Forget it. Oh, my God. Well, there was this story I think you're referring to that he showed up to a playoff game hung over from the night before. First half was terrible, then he puked his guts out at halftime. It played great after halftime, although they still lost 31-28, but he had a 28-point comeback. That was also 1970s era NFL from what you read about it, because it was before my time to somewhat too, but I think of Stapler as the guy that when I had lived in England and when I came back to the states and all my friends were into football and you start to get more and more into it, that NFL films and Kenny Stabler were a perfect marriage, and that Raiders, that Raiders era as well.

And one of my, Kenny Stabler's a guy that always, I didn't watch him play live games, but I always knew of him from reading about NFL history and watching those NFL film segment. He just seemed like an absolute wild badass. Well, John Madden said it. He was the ultimate Raider, basically. He was the guy that you thought of. And I think the Raiders, we still are hearing from their fans whenever we say anything mildly negative about it. because of that 70s team and because of Ken Stabler because it built so many fans around the country

because it was such a cool team and he was really the leader of that so RIP by the way real quick before I move on from Stabler if you had to compare him his strong motion just watching him throw a football as a lefty comparing him to another lefty does anybody you think of anybody a lefty today any time in history like does he remind you of any other lefty like the first one when I saw him I saw a little bit of mark Bernal when I saw a throw. I was thinking boomer Sison was lefty, but I don't have a scientific study on the both. Yeah, a little bit of a stronger arm than Matt liner. A little bit, a little bit. Then Steve

Young still, Steve Young had a different motion. Yeah, yeah. He was a little more compact. We need some more good lefties in the game right now. It's fun to watch a lefty throw, watching all those highlights. You need to fill the need lefty quarterback. Start practicing if you're left-handed and you're young out there. A guy who won't be at practice anytime soon, maybe for the rest of the year. Assistant, or the offensive line coach for the bills. Aaron Cromer, arrested for assault and battery over the weekend,

and the bills announced today he is being put on paid administrative leave that could be something they do in advance of putting him on something that does not pay him and potentially him no longer being in the organization, we'll have to find out. Aaron Cromer been in the news a little too much probably for his own liking in the last year. Yeah, I mean on top of this beach chairs incident involving knocking out a youth, I'm not sure exactly. That's the allegations is that...

Allegedly. Allegedly, and he was arrested for it, and they did determine it was credible in the police report, that beach chairs, his beach chairs were being used by a neighbor and he got angry and got angry and got into an altercation with some kids under 18. We don't know how young they are, but under 18, and he's alleged to have punched one of them.

He's not a fan of millennials. We have established that. But also last year, what about when he, you know, gotten down to with Jake Cutler as well? You know, it seemed like he was a rising star with the Saints not too long ago, and it's been a rough couple of seasons. It does show how quick things change.

First year after his first year in Chicago, when the Bears' offense was humming, he was the kind of guy you thought, Okay, another good year like that. He's going to be the guy getting head coaching interviews because he's the offensive coordinator for a great offense. Well, this is the challenge, too, is if you look at it from the Bill's perspective,

offensive line coach for anybody. I would say, you know, you've got the head coach and the two coordinators. After those positions, to me, the offensive line coach, by far the most important position on your staff. And in some cases, you can make a statement that it might even be even more important than a coordinator if you have a big-time offensive line coach because they make things go.

now you've got Buffalo specifically with Rex Ryan who all he talks about is ground and pound all he wants to do is run the football take pressure off their quarterback defense run the football offensive line coach this is a huge huge issue if he's not there for them going into the regular season I think they have an assistant offensive line coach who's a holdover from the previous staff but normally those are you typically a younger guy not quite as experienced and man that's a that's a huge huge loss for the Buffalo bills if this thing continues on and he's known as one of the better best offensive line coach in the league did a great job in New Orleans.

They have some talent there on the offensive line, but certainly some questions, so that's something to watch. Maybe the bills can hope that, like with everything else in society, four weeks from now, no one will even remember this happen. And they can just slip him right back into the... Well, here, coming up, a couple quick stories before we finish the news,

stuff we definitely won't remember. These are July stories, but I thought they were fun. Justin Houston, he said the chiefs have the best pass rush duo in the league between him and Tom Bali. And they did technically combine for the most sacks last year. So they have a case to be made.

I just wanted to quickly throw out whether you guys agreed with him, whether you would pick another duo. And who would you pick? I'll start out and give you guys a second to think about it. You're going to go Warren Miller. I would go Warren Miller, and I think that's easy. I don't know if it's that easy because I think you can go JJ Watt and anyone. Right.

And that's an option. And there's some other options around the league. But, yeah, I love Von Miller. I think he'll get better at you. you're removed from his time off. Here's the thing, though, can you, you know, what I would always say when these duo discussions would come up and everybody automatically thinks of one side and the opposite side,

you also put two guys next to each other. Yeah. To me, look, I know in Dom Kandu's not going to rock up, you know, huge sack numbers, but when you have a duo like him, you put him next to a Cam Wake and even Olivia Vernon, who I think is one of the most underrated players in the league. That's the duo that I don't think people think about or talk about. Because it's new.

And I, that's looking right here, number one on my list. I put the Dolphins as well, because we don't know. Sue and Wake. Sue and Wake, because Wake has been, I don't know if it's because the whole team has been sort of blah for so long. Wake's been largely overlooked when they talk about these kinds of players. I put the Chiefs number two, though. I would.

Although Ali only had six sacks last season. So it's really the monstrous production from one guy and Ali. And then third, maybe Broncos. How about Greg Hardy and your boy Tyrone Crawford? Maybe they'll be in the mix. You know who When you go back and look over the stats from last year I'll quiz you

Don't like your computers But a player And every time I see it I'm always like I forget about him every single time Last year he had 14 and a half sacks What just any player A player last year Who had 14 and a half sacks

It just doesn't roll off the tongue when you start talking Cherry Hughes maybe No NFC East Cox No. No, he did not. 14 and a half.

Brandon Graham didn't have that. Ryan Carrigan. No. Kerrigan might have had he around there. I want you 13. He was less. He doesn't get a lot of them. Connor Barwin.

Oh, yeah. Barwin. Barwin. Like, when you start talking about him, I don't think of him that way. No, you don't think of him like that. But all of a sudden you're like, okay, Fletcher Cox, who is a stud.

Now you got him and Connor Barwin. That's kind of a sneaky good duo right there. And I maybe go Cox and Graham, though, over Cox and Barwin, but from the sack side. By the way, voted on Total Access, who was the biggest snub in the top 100? Fletcher Cox was one of the options, and he came in last out of the options. Whoa, who else wasn't in there?

It was Devin McCordy, and I forget who the – Eli was one of them. It's like Fletcher Cox was the pick. It's insane that he was not in the top – I would put him in the top 40 or 50 last year. It was great. All right, last one. Quickly, a study last week looking at a lot of factors. Economics is a big part of it, ticket sales, jerseys, determine that the Cowboys have the best fans in the league.

I don't think any one of us would agree with that because their home crowd is pretty lousy for the most part. Who would you pick as the best fan? You know who people ask me this all time? Who are you a fan of? Look, when you work for teams, you lose all that. No, I know, but who do you think has the best fan? I grew up a cowboy fan.

I was a cowboy. Really? I didn't even know that. Yeah. And ironically, I get a lot of heat from. from Cowboy fans for stuff that I say or do. And I'm like, I wore a Danny White Huffy jersey as a little kid, okay? That seems now. You know, I mean.

But in terms of what or who has the best fans, look, when you grow up in San Diego and you go to Charger games, as I think the nation is starting to realize now, the stadium usually is full of whoever's coming in there to play. And two teams, well, three teams. I'll put three teams in terms of road games where you felt their fans. And I think that makes you a good fan. If you live outside of the city. Right.

and you want to go see your team play. So the Cowboys were always one of the three teams. They would fill up the stadium. Every time Darrell Johnson got the ball, you heard the whole stadium, you know, most. I mean, so they would, the Steelers and the Packers. So growing up as a kid, going to a lot of Charger games, I knew when the Chargers played those three teams,

I was going to see as many of their fans there as there were Charger fans. I went Packers because it's the tradition they've been there forever. It's passed down from father to son and mother to daughter, and there's no shifting loyalties in Green Bay. They're built all around the Packers. But also, it's a little easier when your team has had a run from Brett Fav into Aaron Rogers, where generations of people have never known bad quarterback play. Sully is behind the glass waving a Seahawks flag.

Sorry, 12s. Which they wouldn't even be in the conversation five years ago. They're great now. Yeah, because nobody talked about us five years ago, but they've been up in there loud and proud. as the 12th man since the late 70s. Nothing new. CX of good fans.

First of all, how hot is it behind the glass? You are glowing. It's hot. It's 80 plus. Wow. It's getting hot. Yeah, 81. But Sully, like a lot of CX, do you feel like you know anything about the NFL since before the year 2000?

Yeah. Okay. Well, you're the exception. Quiz him. Quiz him on some Seahawks history. Jim Zorn, Largent. Well, you just named him. Who started opposite of Largent on the other side?

Ooh, that's a good question. Yeah, thank you. All right, let's move on. Let me answer that one. I would go, I'm going to go with, I think the Packers are a good choice because they might be the smartest fans. They really know their stuff, which is partly because I think they have the best local media. They really get into the football in terms of the local media.

It's very competitive. And they, I mean, they're doing big features and X's and O's on like the backup tackle battle. So it just makes a smart fan base. They're close. But I'm going to give it to the Buffalo Bills because they've been through a lot. And their fan base does not give up at all. They're just as passive. The Browns are in the next.

Well, I can't pick the Browns because it seems disingenuous, but how about your team moves? No, I get it. The Browns are in the mix. They'd be in my top five, but I'm giving Buffalo the honor for that because they are very loud, and they don't even get mad when you pick on them a little bit, but they're so appreciative if you say anything.

And Bill's fans don't have, Browns fans have many instances of very bad behavior now. They reason for it, but Bill's fans are generally well-behaved and rowdy, which I don't think I don't care if you be as poorly behaved as you want it should be the Browns but you can't do that on the show if you're a Browns fan. Bill's Mafia is legit because that's one of those teams

the Raiders, you mention them are one if you say something negative there's certain fan bases that will stick up for their players. I mean it is a blind devotion. What about Jets fans? Raiders would be... No, the Jets fans will agree with you. They'll say we suck. They'll say a Bill's fan will

be optimistic. Just trying to throw some sort of a bone Dan's way during what a podcast is going to keep him up and I don't know who you're talking about Wow all right all right let's do a little housekeeping that the aforementioned Mr. Hansis will appreciate it's you really pronounce his name Hansus like rhymes with Kansas Hans that's Hansa Hansus yeah H-A-N-Z I'm calling him Hansus that got that became his official name through Damashek and he's now called that way by executives anyone else they don't know his last name rhymes with Kansas dick is a cow I think you know I can remember that

You always do those little memory games, you know. Kansas, a really crappy football program with, you know, it's never going to stop paying Charlie Weiss and major issues. Kansas, okay. Wow. A little housekeeping. Last show, Mark, you weren't here for it. But we drafted teams.

We just decided to take eight players per team, just build the most talent you could have on one team. It's kind of coming off the end of the top 100 series. And we got the resident scout in the building. For those who don't know, DJ worked for the Eagles, for the Ravens, for the Browns. I mean, he's legit. Worked for these teams as a scout.

And so I thought he'd look at our three teams that we built. And quickly, you can just pick which team you think is the best. I'm not going to go through them all here. If you listen to the show, Team Greg was led by JJ Watt and Calvin Johnson, Tom Brady, Dorel Revis. That's a good-looking team. Yeah, some good guys at the end there. Team Dan led by Aaron Rogers.

Ooh, nice. Adrian Peterson, Des Sherman, Earl Thomas. A few more there. Good looking team. He's studying this. He's looking very angrily at Dan's headshot. So, well, Dan's got Jamal, Charles, and Adrian Peterson. Yeah, we were just trying to build.

Just trying to build the most talented team. And then Team Wes, he starts off with Grank, Andrew Luck, Beckham, Justin, Houston. Goes on from there. He wrapped up his picks with Demarius Thomas. I just had DJ here. Is that it? Is that the last one? Yeah, that's it.

Just three teams. I'll let you look at it a little more. forgot to bring up the printouts, but this is working. Yeah, no, this is good. Look, these are obviously three very talented teams. I think Wes definitely skewed a little bit younger, right, building a team for the future, which I like. I'm a big fan of his roster.

I think, look, you've got a nice team, Greg. When you look at JJ Watt, you've got the most dominant defensive player. You've got Calvin Johnson. You've got Levion Bell, who I love. I love Tom Brady. But as much as this pains me. Whoa. I always go to the quarterbacks.

And Team Dan with Aaron Rogers, throwing the ball to Des Bryant and Julio Jones. I don't know who drafted this team for him, but whoever did it, did a good job. As the sitting GM of Dan's team, I helped him. Did you help him? That is nonsense. I knew he did it by himself. Dan's team scores about 70 points a game, and then it's like, oh, you get to pick the next 10 best players in the NFL, and you can build a pretty good defense out of that.

I thought I was giving you a layup here to just do some more hands of slamming. It just shows what kind of integrity this man has. He puts aside his personal feelings. He goes Team Dan. And you know what? What you were just saying is that the around the NFL podcast listeners out there, they might as well be NFL scouts because the voting did come in and you guys did choose. Did they vote for Dan?

They did choose. Team Dan. Solidly over West was second. And my team did so well. Came in third. Whatever. So, congrats, Dan. You know, it's a big week.

He's also got his pain rankings out. While we're talking hands as, he is ranking, and we're going to talk about it a little more next week when he comes back. He's ranking which teams have experienced the most pain over the course of their history. Now, number seven and number six as we tape this, they're the only ones up so far. The Chiefs were seven, sneaky, a lot of pain there, haven't done anything in about 40 years, have lost seven straight playoff games, which is outrageous. And number six.

and I think that they should be higher up on the list, the Cincinnati Bengals. That's pretty funny. The charge, well, I don't want to spoil anything about the rest of the list, but I was going to say, I was going to guess, and you let a little bit of the cat out of the bag there. Growing up in San Diego, I've always brought up the point, it bothers me that we, you know, Cleveland's of the world,

it's like the, oh, the woe is me, the poor Cleveland, they have won anything since 64. I'm like, I grew up in San Diego. We've had the San Diego. who are the best indoor soccer team you will ever see. Sure. We had the San Diego goals, minor league hockey, come get some. You don't want to see them in the postseason.

But outside of that, Padres have never won anything. Chargers have to go back to the AFL days. So we haven't had anything. The Clippers leave. Nobody seems to care about that. We have the clippers, they leave. We haven't won anything in a major sport. So I just think it's because it's San Diego and it's great weather

and everybody loves it out there. And we have other interests and do other things. Yeah, I think that's what it comes down to. They don't have the huge. fan base ever, but the ones that they have are die hard, and I agree with you, and I'm not going to give away anything about the rest of the list, but I think the Chargers fan little ignored here. If you look at the Marty Schottenheimer era, and I was with Baltimore at that time, and we were

kind of, we were 13 and 3 one year, they were 13 and 3, or maybe they were 14 and 2 even. We were kind of, you know, we saw a lot of them, and we watched a lot of them on tape. They were the most talented team in the NFL for probably a three-year stretch and have nothing to show for it. And, you know, it'd been a one Super Bowl. And it was a disaster. So that's it for the news. Thank you also for picking which one of our teams drafted the best.

DJ goes with Team Hands us. And now it's time for the big part of the show. Something we're going to call players at the crossroads. It's more the full version. I like this. Hugs, holds up really well. Listen to a few songs this morning, inspired by this. I almost feel like they were thought of almost like a novelty act at the time.

Or they were kind of left of center, and now you listen to them all this time later. It's great. Holds up. One of the thing about those, like, songs like that is I'm quite certain that I sang the wrong lyrics. Oh, certain. Well, yeah, this is before you. Wait, hold on, hold on. Was this the right part?

Goes, and I'm going to miss everybody. Is he really saying I'm going to miss everybody, or I don't know if he's even saying that? But that's the way I said. I think you got that right. I think you got that right. I'm going to visit very fast, though. And no one was scarier than the guy in the cross. I don't know if you haven't to remember the video for Crossroads.

There's kind of a guy going around the video essentially telling you, I think your life is over. You know, that's kind of what it's about. Scary video. So good tea into this segment here. Yeah. So I'll talk over. These are basically make or break players. Yep.

Your guys, they're at a certain point in their course. career. They're going to go one way or they're going to go the other. And we'll just kind of throw them out there and we'll discuss them going into the year. And I'm going to start in Minnesota with two guys who are coming from different directions, but I think are both at the crossroads. Cordarell Patterson and Mike Wallace, now they're teammates. Patterson, number one ranked guy on our making the leap list last year, did not go so well.

We weren't the only ones who really loved him. Took way too early in fantasy drafts. Now he's just fighting for playing time. And then Mike Wallace, a much different situation, was one of the highest paid wide receivers in the league. Now he's getting traded in the middle of his career. Is this just what Mike Wallace is going to be? Is he going to kind of have that steep decline be a San Antonio Holmes type? Or can he have a good second career act?

Let's start with Mark. Either one you want to start with. I like the setup because you're in Norv Turner's offense where you, Norv Turner had to go through last season without a Mike Wallace-type deep threat. Charles Johnson emerged down the stretch as a good receiver for them. You've got Cordarral, you've got Adrian Peterson back, it's Teddy Bridgewater in year two. I don't think it's a bad situation. X receivers have thrived in Norv's offense many, many times. So we'll see.

Look, I am a big Ryan Tannenhill supporter. I love what he's, you know, his progress. You can track how he's gotten better each and every year. The one glaring weakness in his game is throwing the deep ball. And that's the one thing Mike Wallace does best. And Teddy Bridgewater throws a beautiful deep ball. I think this could actually be a nice comeback year for Mike Wallace in this system. I think it's a good fit.

You've got a running game. You're going to be able to see a lot of single high safety. He can get on top of coverage, and I think he's going to have somebody that can get the ball out there to him. I think with Cordero, the question is with Charles Johnson and Wallace and Adrian Peterson, and you've got a good tight end there as well. What happens to Cordero? Because he was meant to be the featured guy.

Is that going to happen this time? Well, you've got to get Charles Johnson off the field if you're Corderole Patterson. You need to not be the number three slash four gadget. set him up, but he's only having to... That's what he's going to end up being. That's not good. The ironic thing is the big debate that year, Corderole Patterson versus Tavon Austin.

And the whole knock on Tavon Austin was that he's a gadget guy. And they haven't figured out, you know, Schotenheimer's gone now. We'll see what they can do with the coordinator. They can figure out what to do with him. But in the way it looks now, they're both gadget guys. That's exactly what they are. So you don't think that'll change. I made a huge list and we're going to write this up eventually.

Tavon Austin wasn't a guy that I was even going to mention on the show here because we only have so much time. But you brought him up. I still think you can use him. I don't know. I think it was against the Colts, maybe, his rookie year. We had a long kick return. He had a long reception in that game.

And look, the speed's undeniable. He is very, very explosive. You got to figure out. Patterson, though, when he moves, he moves unlike most players. He moves just like that. When he moves, we're kind of keep with our hip-hop theme. But just getting these guys the ball in space.

And I think Tavon is a much, he was more coming out, more polished as a route runner. I think he can catch the ball a little bit more naturally than Patterson. Patterson obviously bigger and strong. In the completely wrong offense for what he is. Yeah, no question. Corderole Patterson, and this is wildly unfair, but he had one of the most,

he had the feeling in the green room when he was at the draft more than anyone I can remember recently of like, I can't believe I'm here. I can't believe this went so well. I don't know. I think it was all of a surprise to Corderole Patterson and that he ended up being this top of a prospect coming into league because he was so raw, they took a chance on him,

hasn't worked out too well. It looks like we're kind of split there. Maybe we see Wallace improving. I like that you have faith in Teddy's deep ball, because people got on him a little bit. Oh, I like Teddy can throw the deep ball, plus he's going to be indoors, right? Yeah.

No, not yet. Are they outside of Minnesota? They are still outdoors. They have one more year at the University of Minnesota? Yeah. Oh, that's brutal. Really? Yeah.

I thought they were indoors this shot. I like it. I like outdoor Minnesota football. Yeah, it was fun. It's not if you're playing. All right, let's talk about another quarterback, not Teddy Bridgewater, a guy who, even last year. Can we move in a faster clip because I'm not sure Sean's going to hold up for this whole episode.

What, are you okay? He's sweating like crazy back there. Yeah, sweating from every pore of my body, but I'm pushing through. It's okay. RIP through this. Like a good southern lawyer. I mean, here's a guy definitely at the crossroads. RG3.

Now, I actually happened to, I randomly watched his game against Minnesota. He had a couple nice deep balls. And it did remind you, even last year, he had some moments where he shows off that talent. Do we think he's at the crossroads for sure in Washington? Yeah. Do we think there's a chance? He can at least have a year where, okay, maybe he's not a superstar, but he gives you that solid mid-level.

He's not the guy that hurts you and he'll win a few games for you type of season. I don't have confidence more than anything else just because the relationship that exists between the quarterback and the head coach, which I think you can go back in years past, and maybe in yesteryear you could get away with that. I just think it's so complicated now. The defenses are so good. If you're not on the same wavelength as your coach, that's going to be difficult. I think they went out of their way to try to tamper down that drama

and make it sound like we're all in support of RG3. This is a guy that had 20 touchdowns and five picks as a rookie. He said 20 and 18 cents. I mean, he's crumbled. And that wasn't an offense off. around his skills that absolutely went, it caught at the right time at the NFL where RJ3 was used correctly. It was healthy too.

He was healthy and he hasn't been since, and that's part of it. I mean, these quarterbacks will be put in the top five are guys that play 15, 16 games every season. A, can he do that? But B, Gruden, the way Gruden spoke about him last season was absolutely toxic. Some talent there, though. It wouldn't stun me if he came back and had a 20 touchdown, 11 interception, decent season where he gets you thinking, okay, he can do something.

See, I'll say, best case scenario, you're looking at a 18 touchdown, 14 interception type year. That's my. I mean, his numbers last year, I think, were even worse than he played. Although there were a few games where he looked like he just wasn't ready for the NFL. But his numbers in the end was four touchdowns, six interceptions, and nine fumbles. I mean, that's a disastrous season in 2014 where everything is helping the quarterback. The biggest number of all is zero confidence.

And one question, zero confidence, and if he gets hurt to end the year, I believe his rookie option contract is guaranteed for the next year. If he's stinking up the joint in week 10 and Gruden who's benched him four times already, do you just get him out of there? No, it's not guaranteed. So they can get rid of him, and they will. I mean, I don't know if they would trade him in the middle of the season. But if he gets hurt, it is. Yes, if he got hurt, then he would be guaranteed. That's right.

Just for performance. I mean, they're taking a risk by giving him that this year. Let's move to another guy who's been hurt quite a bit. Brian Cushing. Remember when Brian Cushing was a star? I'm a Brian Cushing fan when he's on the field. He's a big-time player. He's at the crossroads.

Well, it's just he's at the urgent care. I mean, he just needs to get healthy. If he's healthy on the field, he's outstanding. Yeah, and he came off. He had multiple, they weren't major, but some smaller surgeries this offseason two. He says he's fully healthy. right now. Bill O'Brien said he's been running around in a way that he hadn't seen since he joined the team. So there's hope. But again, it's guys like Sean Lee. Cushing, can they last the full

season? Cushing's at another level, though, to me. Cushing, I brought him up just because I wanted people to remember, hey, here's a guy who everyone thought was a foundation piece, is going to be a future star, is one of the best young defensive players in the league. And now he's an afterthought. And if you watched him last year, he could not move around at all. I think this is going to be his last year in Houston unless he shows that he's a totally different, healthy type of player. I mean, he's had all sorts of problems. He did say he was not healthy at all last season. Well, you could see it.

He couldn't move. I mean, he didn't look like he was ready to play in the NFL. So he's definitely in a make or break season. Another couple guys in Cleveland in a make or break season, ya boy, Justin Gilbert. And then Barquevius Mingo. Kind of maybe it's like the damning with fame praise or low expectation. But no one seems to care that Barquevius Mingo hasn't done anything.

isn't really doing anything for them. Well, two sacks last year when he had more snaps than he did as a rookie when he had five sacks. So his production went down. I think it's interesting to look at what the way that that team is being built on defense. They drafted a guy Nate Orchard that they have talked up nonstop. They love him. Paul Kruger finally came through for them. Armani Bryant's being moved to outside linebacker.

And I liked him when he was on the defensive end position last season. So it's basically Mingo put up or shut up. We don't need you. The whole thing's not being centered around you. And with Gilbert, same thing. They just drafted and brought in more and more cornerbacks. I wasn't a big Mingo fan coming out. However, I was a big Gilbert fan.

I would disagree with the Crossroads for Gilbert. Year 2 is a corner. I think you look at Kareem Jackson, guys like that. There's a lot of corners we've seen. That transition from college to the NFL with what they're asked to do and all that they have to know, it takes some time. Xavier Rhodes is another one who I think is going to be a star at Corner who did not immediately have success.

So I think there's some growing pains there. See, Gilbert's had some issues off the field that he's readily admitted to. So I still think I'm not giving up on him. And I don't even think if this year he doesn't blow it up that. Got to make some progress at least. Be a role player. You're a top 10 pick. Be a solid nickelback where you're on the field and you're not hurting your team.

Well, this is what I didn't understand. And look, I think the guy can be a Pro Bowl kickoff returner. And not only will that help your special teams getting him out there with the ability he had, He had a bunch of touchdowns in college. But it's going to just give him some confidence, and that's going to carry over when he gets on the defensive side of the ball. I don't know if, you know, I've heard, okay, there was some learning issues this side or the other. Return, middle, return right, return left.

He can figure that out. And his issues weren't athletic. I mean, he had a couple plays last season. He looked amazing. Against the Colts, you saw what he can do. He just needs to be refined, but you've got something to work with there. Mingo, on the other hand, had played with zero power in college, and I don't know that that's something you're ever going to pay.

And it's not gaining weight. Right, in his speed and his pass rush moves, they don't stand out to make up for the fact that he's not strong. Just a few more players left and we'll wrap it up. Doug Martin's a guy, I would have thought, would be a third stringer battling for a roster spot right now just based on what's happened to him the last couple of years. But he's got a chance here. He is the starting running back in Tampa. I'm not in love with Charles Sims in particular.

He's coming off an okay rookie year. Sounds like the coaching staff is maybe mixed there. Just the fact that Martin, that they're giving them. such a chance. He's at the crossroads. He's got a chance to recapture what he had as a rookie. They're going to throw the ball a lot. They're going to throw the ball a lot. So I think he'll help you out in the passing game. I still think Charles Sims in the passing game can do some of that stuff. I don't think, you know, the offensive line where it is right now,

I know they like Donovan Smith, young left tackle. They have some young pieces in place there. But overall, that five up front causes concern for me. And I don't think they're going to be a very effective running football team no matter who's back there. I mean, his job was basically saved by Dirk Cotter coming in and saying, I like Doug Martin, but it was last year that Sims, I remember you had multiple reports that they just love Sims. Yeah, especially catching the ball. I thought they thought they could do a lot of things with him out of the backfield.

So we'll see what they do. Like Martin, Bruce Irvin came into the league really strong. And now he's at the point where you don't know if it's his last season in Seattle. Some talk, maybe he'll head to Atlanta. I think he's turned out he's a fine rotational player. He hasn't really ever elevated from where he was. as a rookie? He's a rotational player in college.

I mean, this is kind of who he was. And then... So you think this is just who he is? This is Bruce Ervin for the rest. He's not going to bust out at any point. I don't think he's somebody that... He's super athletic and explosive, and he's not somebody that's going to be a down-end,

down-out, dominant football player. But you're going to see flashes from him. You're going to have games where he has two sacks and you're going to see three or four games where he doesn't give you anything. I just think that's who he is. It seems like pass rushers, if you're showing any life at all,

you're going to find work in the NFL until you're truly out of the... town last couple guys Eric Fisher do you think there's any chance just as a scout that he could improve upon what he showed former number one pick he doesn't get talked about at all that draft was so bad I know but he still was the top pick no I know he was but it's one of those deals where you go back and you look at it

and you say okay he was a top pick well then you look at everybody who else would you have picked up there so you know I think Keenan Allen was in that draft ended up being one of the better players and he went in what the fourth round third or fourth round. Spent the whole pre-draft process getting slashed by people, too. Yeah. So, no, look, I was, you know, Eric Fisher, some technical stuff.

I think that there is hope that he can improve, some stuff with his hands. I think he has gotten a little bit better there. You look, offensive linemen is another position. I think you give those guys three or four years, and you can see some guys come on and play well. I haven't given up on him. I don't think he's ever going to be an elite left tackle, but I think he can be a solid star. Doesn't it seem like the premier tackles, though, kind of from day one, they are who they are? Maybe there are numbers that grow into the role.

The Premier guys. That's what he was drafted to be, but it was, like you're saying, it was not a great crop of players. I think guys, like, you know, Joe Staley has gotten better throughout his career and made himself into one of the best tackles. I don't think he walked on campus and was one of them. But a guy like the guy with you on Total Access, everyone should check out this week.

Taylor Luan. Taylor Luan. I mean, you put him in right away. He was a solid starter, really, from the get-go. I know you've got to go head off to do Total Access. you have your podcast. Everyone should check out Move the Sticks. You can check out our players at the Crossroads.

We're going to write this up at some point. We'll talk a little Colin Kaepernick. I mean, he's one. Can I give you something I would like to do real quick? Yes. You're the host. As long as Dan is not listening, which he probably won't listen. No way.

He's not involved with these very self-absorbed. But I'm going to tell him as kind of a deal here. Okay, I sat in your chair and did around the NFL. So I'm going to have him do a move. Move the Sticks episode, okay? And I'm going to tell him, I need an hour worth of content. I'll never air it. I'll never air it.

But I want him to sit here and have to do a whole show. Is that cool? What would have moved the sticks show with Dan really be? I don't know. I don't care. I just like the idea that he'd have to sit in this inferno hot box that we have in here, where it's 90 degrees, watch Sean sweat his butt off behind the glass and do an hour worth of content that doesn't see the light of day.

That would be the ultimate. Dan's gotten the last lap because you're in here for another hour doing your show next, and it's still as this hot. It's remaining this hot. I'm hoping, I got to do Total Access. I'm hoping this evening that it'll be a little bit cool off. I'm going to have Rhett Lewis on our show today on the movie six podcast, and he's just got back from the Manning Passing Academy.

So for those that wonder what goes on at the Manning Passing Academy, other than maybe the Johnny Mansell story last year, which I might get some control on that. Red has all the details on that. Well, Tibodeau is a fun place. If you can't have fun in Tibodeau. I've been there. I've done the camp.

It's fun, fun experience. All right. That'll do it. Oh, I got a time to drop for Mark Sessler and Daniel Jeremiah. of course Sully and Brandon McGinnis behind the glass. Thank you for listening. Once again, we love you.