NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Antonio Brown Comeback; Vikings Deep Dive with Drew Magary

Episode Date: June 24, 2020

A bunker filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal bring you all of the latest news in the NFL including a few teams discussing on bringing back Antonio Brown (10:29), Martha Firestone Ford stepping down as Detroit Lions owner (14:50) and Big Ben discussing some his past demons (27:03). Drew Magary stops by beachside to do a deep dive on the Minnesota Vikings (32:56).Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast demands the front page and a photo. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hanzas coming to you from a country filled with heroes in different time zones. We've got Ricky Hollywood over there in New Hampshire and both Mark Sessler and Greg Rosenthal holding it down in Los Angeles. What is up, boys and girls?

Yo, I tried to point to Mark there to just, you know, say the first words because I was drinking some water. But Mark refuses to interact and have a little banter at the top of the show. No, I like, you know, the same way that Dan demands, you know, a screaming headline and a glossy photo, I like to be, I like the table to be set for me that you, if you want me to speak, you appropriately set up my comments. I see we have a new batch of money tags off the top of the show. That's great news. And I have, I have done a little soul searching about my upcoming interview and photo shoot with the Gatesville Messenger scheduled for Friday. you guys are right even if you didn't come out and criticize me I understood what was inferred that it was maybe my ego is getting too big with it demanding the front page so I'm backing off that and really what I'm going to do here

is let the Gatesville Messenger and their sports reporter a very nice man named Mark Goodson they will really be the gatekeepers of where I end up in the paper and then upon some further introspection because if nothing else, this quarantine and pandemic has prompted, I think, a lot of self-introspection. I'm going to use where I show up in the paper as kind of like a benchmark where I am as a person. If I get thrown on the back page and tiny font with a small photo, that will tell me how much I need to work to become a more relevant person. If I'm on the front page, conversely, well, I did.

it. I'd have two questions or follow up if I'm allowed. Number one. Of course. And you know, you can answer them as a package deal. But how many pages are in this thriving weekly newspaper or daily? Okay. But second question, Dan, is, did this? Erica, Erica couldn't be more in her blue blood cocoon up there in New Hampshire. She's never seen the Gatesville Messenger. So do not take her commentary as fact. It's a, it's a biweekly paper. that I would imagine, I guess, is in the range of 20 to 25 pages. That's a factual answer. That's all I'm looking for.

The second one is, did your introspection, did that begin after they informed you that you would not necessarily be featured on the front page? Do that trigger the introspection? Or is this free of their feedback on where you'd land? I can honestly tell you I did not have any conversations at all with the Gatesville Messenger about where my placement will be. It feels like you're putting a lot on, you know, in terms of like where you are in your life on, you know, some factors that might have nothing to do with you. You know, if it's in the sports section, it just might be in the sports section, you know, and no one gets, no one breaks out of that.

Yeah, I know. And again, I don't know much about the reporter. If the guy could put out pages and does a nice job with the article, that's going to play a part. So, yeah, in some ways, just like in life, you leave some things to the fate, fates to the gods. And that's what's happening here. It reminds me a little bit of I heard, you know, back in like the 80s and 90s, I used to work at NBC Sports. And there was this, you know, more recently than that.

But back in the 80s and 90s, there was this TV critic Rudy Martsky, who I think we've talked about on the show. Yeah. Who was like the only sports TV critic in the world, you know, or at least in the United States, rather. And he did it for USA Today. And Rudy Martsky's like four lines on how NBC's Wimbledon coverage was or World series coverage was like would determine their the entire department and this is to at the very top this

policy was essentially set guys making you know millions of dollars if he had a little dig like people would get fired and that whole department would be a disaster for a year if he loved it it's like people got raises and it's just like some some schlubb you know making an opinion what does rudy marty so is mark goodson the new rudy schlop i'm saying you're putting a lot on what he's saying And I don't know, maybe he hasn't. I'd say Mark Goodson is definitely not Rudy Martsky in the wide span of the industry overall. But in your world, yes, he is. That's exactly.

There's a lot riding on this, Dan. I feel this has gone from a jovial pursuit, too. I feel there's a lot of weight on you now. And we've got to see, you know, please save some physical copies of the paper for our families. Oh, for sure, for sure. I think I just needed this. I needed one of the, it's like when Jordan would sell. like these challenges. I just need something

in this pandemic. It's parallel. And that's what the Gatesville Messenger situation is for me. All right. Good show coming up today. We spun the wheel of teams on the end, during the end of Monday show, and it landed on the Minnesota Vikings. We reached out and we're happy to have Drew McGarry, the great writer, author, former Deadspin columnist, and a big-time Vikings fan on the show.

So we're going to talk about his Vikings fandom and then dive into the Minnesota football team in 2020. Before we do that, though, let us hit the news. And now they're stretched from the back. The U.S. have numbers. Altinor squares it. Dempsey's missed it. Donovan has it. From hope, there is glory. It's London, Donovan. So often the inspirational figure was the man who was there to tuck it home. Did you boys know that we have hit the 10-year anniversary of Landon Donovan's incredible goal against Algeria that stands to this day as the most famous moment in the history of men's soccer in this country that put the U.S. into the knockout round, where they were probably dispatched, by the way, which kind of gets lost. lost in a little bit in the story that the team didn't go much further. But U.S. men's soccer, which is very different than the women's team, which has been

dominant as won World Cups, the men's soccer team has always been kind of like this underdog upstart team. And I know we've talked about it on the podcast, but I thought on this anniversary and the fact that we have so many soccer fans or football fans across the world that listened to the show, that I still remember being profoundly unemployed this week 10 years ago and going to Nevada Smith, which is a great soccer bar in the East Village of Manhattan, and watching the game with my good friend Howard. And it being one of the, like, and I'm not a big soccer guy,

but it was one of the greatest sports moments in my life, at least watching on television, the celebration when Donovan's goal went in because it was the passion and the patriotism of all of it was incredible. I remember getting even interviewed on the street, the reporter from, I think, the Washington Post. They cannot stay away from you. They just cannot, you're a magnet to this publicity. I was probably within a mile of you.

I was probably, I think I was, I lived in the East Village at the time, but I was at a bar in the Lower East Side, a little further down. And I have to say being in New York City for the World Cup was, you know, in 06 and 10, I guess those were the only two. That was one of my favorite, like, things about living in New York. Like it just takes over the city and that's all you're doing for three weeks, which I feel like it's a perfect place to be for the World Cup. I felt like we had that moment together here in LA with the World Cup where in the course of two or three hours, Wes had his,

he claims his iPad stolen. I feel like it was probably closer to just misplaced, but very could have been stolen by one of the barmaid. Well, it was misplaced then stolen, I think that's what it was. And then, you know, this came 40 minutes after a co-worker, who I won't name, got into like a bar clearing brawl. And this is with the U.S. World Cup antics in the background. So it was quite a day. Yes. And it is, it's kind of a bummer that the U.S. men's soccer didn't build off that moment

in 2010. And they haven't even showed up in the World Cup since. But I look forward to that happening again down the line because it really is incredible. And I, and doing, reading an oral history by, on ESPN.com about the game and the aftermath of this interesting nugget, guys. The celebrations following that game became legend unto their own. Former President Bill Clinton was at the match, making his way to the dressing room to join in the festivities. Former NFL star Reggie Bush was there too. Reggie. Reggie's in the locker room in South Africa, I believe, where the game was played after the U.S.

beat Algeria. That's amazing. I wish we would have known that. Would I ask him about it when he was a part of the around the NFL gang. I mean, especially at that point, he was on like an upper, an upper, upper tier of not only sports celebrity, but just U.S. celebrity. I mean, you just won a Super Bowl, you know, the Kardashian thing. Reggie was flying high.

He was king. He was king. All right. Let's get in to the... Ricky, do you remember that game, by the way, the match, the U.S. being Algeria? It was 10 years ago. I don't even... You were a wee girl.

2010, I graduated high school. So... Well, not everybody gets the soccer fever. Yeah. That's what happened down there. But I was super plugged in for the, you know, the U.S. women's team. They did a great job. That was great.

So what a squad. All right. Let's get to the news and let's start with a name. He pops up on this show every once and a while. And he's a guy you keep tabs on because he was a Hall of Fame talent before he stepped away from the league. Antonio Brown. I guess he didn't really step away. He was told to step away from the league.

We're steps. Our own Mike Sillard. of NFL network reported on Tuesday that the Seahawks and the Ravens have, quote, had internal discussions about signing Brown, who was out of the league for most of last season, did that cup of coffee with the Patriots, much Ballyhooed and much angering to the great Chris Wessling, as I recall on this program. But Silver's colleague, our buddy Mike Garifolo, also said that whether it's Josh Gordon or Antonio Brown, there's. a strong sense the Seahawks will eventually take a chance to upgrade at receiver. Greg, when you were doing your roster projections, you saw a wide receiver as a position that needs upgrade? Is that how you saw it when you went through their roster? The Seahawks, yeah. They have one of the worst third and fourth receiver situations in the league.

I mean, they have a great starting duo in Metcalf and Lockett, maybe as good as they've ever had under Pete Carroll. But it falls off a cliff. Right now, they're asking Philadelphia. Dorset or David Moore, I mean, and you need more than two receivers. So I could see them taking the plunge of any team. I do wonder how this is like getting out there is Antonio Brown's team trying to push it out there. The teams are just talking because you got to find out the suspension. No one's signing him until we find out the suspension. And I could imagine he might get suspended for a while, maybe half the season. I mean, it's a total guess, but it seems like it could be a while. Yeah, I think you'd have to project him as someone that you could put into the lineup for a stretch run.

I mean, and these are two teams that that makes sense for. And I'm not sure how a front office decides between Antonio Brown and Josh Gordon, who is the more, I guess, unreliable wild card between the two, because they can sting you in different ways if you're building a team around them. But, I mean, I feel like we talked about the Ravens, and I know I got on an manual, I wanted them to sign Emmanuel Sanders, that they could really use, like, a veteran to step in and, I think, elevate the guy, like Hollywood Brown around a veteran that that could have.

help. I don't love their depth at all in Baltimore. But I don't know what you can count on with Antonio Brown. The fact is this, like, if it worked, that's one way you make the last year's Ravens tangibly more dangerous than they were. I would take a chance on him. I know he's out there and he's got all sorts of issues. And Mike Silver reported that the likely suspension will be the neighborhood of eight games. Okay. But if you sign him to a contract that obviously is not going to be worth a lot of money, he cannot command big salary because of the state he's put himself in.

And you give yourself an easy out, I feel like if I'm a team that's right on the doorstep and if I'm ownership and front office general manager who believes in my head coach, who can handle the situation and will know what to do, if I'm okay morally with hiring Antonio Brown and bringing him in, because. some of his transgressions off the field are disturbing. I would do it personally. And I guess I'd be kind of surprised if we've seen the last of him. I know that I've seen in other places people saying it would be shocked if he gets back in the league because of all that he's done.

But remember, one of the most prolific, gifted, studly wide receivers statistically that we've ever seen before he went away. I think the two factors, you mentioned morals and, you know, that probably doesn't. doesn't come into play as much as it should with NFL teams, but it's what he's done off the field and what he's done, you know, at the end of his last two stops, you know, what he's done in the last two years, you know, with the Steelers, with the Raiders, and with the Patriots. I don't know.

It's a tricky one because Gordon, Gordon, why not take a shot when he gets back in the league, but it's also like a lesser of an upside. You're right. I mean, Antonio Brown's the best receiver, you know, to me, is the best receiver since I've been covering the league. You know, I would say in the last two decades, he's my guy. All right. Let's move on. Ownership change in the NFL.

It doesn't happen a lot, so we're going to talk about it right now. Martha Firestone Ford, 94 years old. She has stepped down in her leadership role with the Detroit Lions in favor of her daughter, Sheila Ford Hamp, Firestone, Firestone Ford. not easy she took over after her husband william for died in 2014 and this is a team that's been in the ford family since 1963 the new owner she'll afford hamps says she's going to be quote very hands on not always what you want to hear from ownership but maybe maybe she'll be good at it who knows and uh connected to hamp is her comments that she would quote completely support the line signing Colin Kaepernick.

Mark, I mentioned it last week that we could be heading into trope siren territory here if teams continue to say how, oh, it would make so much sense to sign Kaepernick. I'm not saying this is the same situation, but it does certainly put a little bit of heat now on Matt Patricia, the head coach of the team, now that the owner has gone out and said she would welcome Kaepernick being there. I think it's tangibly different it is a bit of a trope but it's an owner

which on this show we've talked about over and over is like getting owners to start to verbally get behind this and it's so it is different you know it's not a great scenario for I think here's the thing if you're a if you're a Blauhard if you're part of the David Blow fan club

sorry then well no you know what the greater good are you still a Blauhard sure of course I'm still writing the newsletters first of all I mean, those take a lot of my time. What's going on in those newsletters this offseason? Well, we're talking about the span of someone's life and what David Blau has accomplished over, you know, months and years.

I like your dismissive comments of the Gatesville Messenger, and then I'd love to see how many pages the Blow Hard Weekly is. Well, you know, I won't get further into that, but we keep it tight and we keep it very readable, and there's some gems in there are a lot of... What do you have to hide, Mark? Big fun. I would just say this.

That it's sometimes you've got to roll with the greater good. And, like, you know, Kaepernick, it should be a backup in this league. I'm not saying she'd be a starter right now. But the Lions kind of fit as a place where that could work, especially if you've got HAMP, Ms. HAMP, telling you that that's happening potentially. Well, Chase Daniel is their backup. Yeah. Yeah, Chase Daniel and the Blowhard.

Well, forget Chase Daniel. He has $5 million. Man, Chase Daniel. It's funny because Chase Daniel is actually the guy that everyone always mentions when they're talking about Capertic. They're like, hey, if Chase Daniel can be getting $6, $7 million a year, what? There's not a spot for Capric. And this is the team with Chase Daniel. And I had to go check his contract because I wasn't sure how much money.

He got $5 million guaranteed from the Lions. Still, what? I mean, he's not getting paid that much this year. That's over a couple of years. But yeah. What a locker room guy. So it's just not going to happen. I mean, it's kind of a great example.

It's kind of a great example. You're making the leap piece on him. Right, how crazy it was. You created this, Greg. Yeah, that's my fault. Former Making the Leap candidate, Chase Daniel. All right. In other news, Daniel Kaplan of the athletic reports that the NFL will let teams set different

attendance capacity limits when the schedule starts in August with the preseason. What does that mean? It means some teams can potentially play in front of a full or nearly full stadium. And then other teams under this a policy could hypothetically play in front of nobody. Greg, this does call to question an obvious query here, which is, is this fair? Is this a scenario where obviously the way the COVID has

been handled in this country, it's been very inconsistent. And if there are 70,000 people down there in Jacksonville watching a game and then zero people at the new Ram stadium watching the game, that doesn't seem right. I don't know. These are the things the NFL tries to control typically. I'm not going to lose sleep about that, partly because it reminds me of all the stories that have been written about, you know, the different scenarios about baseball the last

three months. What a waste of time, you know, because they all ended up changing a million times. And I find it interesting. I think it's worth like, okay, well, that's an interesting thing to consider that the NFL is thinking that way. But who knows if there's going to be any fans in any stadiums? I mean, and I don't think it's like it would be like overly unfair, but I guess I want to see what actually happens before I worry too much about these potential plans.

Because I just think I already can think of some articles. You know, Florio, my old boss wrote one, you know, saying how, how basically announcing there would be fans in all the games, you know, like two or three months ago. Like, stop. knows, we just don't know where this is going. And I don't know. I guess I would be surprised if there's any fans early in the year, but I have no idea. I mean, I guess part of it is you float something like this out there to see how it does with people's reaction. Are people are, you know, apathetic to it? Or the legal, also along all of this with Corona has talked

about not creating competitive disadvantage, that we're not going to open Complex A, even if they're in a city where people are, you know, flying around town, getting drinks and having exquisite, like, shrimp dinners, or where city B can't do that. So I don't like the idea of having two or three stadiums that are rocking it out and making it impossible for a visiting quarterback or offense to hear. But then in that quarterback's home stadium, there's nothing. There's no human.

I don't know. Like, what is, is that really even that huge of an advantage? Like last year, for instance, or lately, Would you want to play in Kansas City if like... I get it, but it's like... With fans or with... Home teams win like 55% of the game. So it is a very minor, a relatively minor advantage anyways.

And how much of that advantage even is just like, you know, due to the fans. There could be other ways that you have the advantage where you're just at home. So I guess I'm not, I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it. I mean, isn't it about money? Because coming out of this season, if these 32 teams have no fans, I mean, we're going to have a lot of follow-up corona news as to how the league would have to shift and change off of losing a year's worth of revenue, which is what meant to be $3 billion plus, you know?

I'd be curious if you're a football team. Would you rather be the visiting team in front of 50,000 people or 70,000 people? Or like some of these guys might prefer to play with people in the stands, even if they're on the road, I would think, because of that. That's kind of how they've always played and they might enjoy that, that the adrenaline that comes with being in front of fans like that. That's another way to look at it. And I agree with you on the other part, Mark, that like I've said on the show, Mrs. Miller, my old social studies teacher, explained almost everything with the line, money makes the world go around. And the NFL is a stance to lose more than $3 billion if they play their 256 games and playoffs without fans.

They still get a ton of money from the TV rights and all that stuff. And baseball, and that was part of that nasty failed negotiation between the owners and players, it's going to be way more damaging for ownership with all the games that are played in baseball and the revenue that comes from that, people actually attending the games. Football still, that's a huge chunk of change that they're after. And that's a part of this. In terms of the impact on the sport, I think the Premier League and Bundes League are great examples because that is about as big time sports as you can get.

And I would argue, I think the fans might matter more there than in the NFL on average, where the home crowd is such a huge part of the game. And it's been different. I'd have to hear from our old buddy, Zach Goldman, to break it down. I'm no expert. But everyone watching those games says it's weird. It's different. It's not the same thing.

But they're also enjoying the product that's on the field ultimately, and they're watching it, and they're doing it. And that might just be what we have to do. I want to hear Zach Goldman on Landon Donovan. Yeah. If my hero growing up was on Mattingly, Zachie Goldman, Donovan was his guy. And that was a high moment in Zach's life. I guarantee you that.

Finally, well, not finally. In other news, we have a certified trope alert. And a man that's no stranger to trope alerts, Adrian Peterson. the great running back who is in what you would think the back nine of his career with Washington Redskins even though he still seems to edge toward 1,000 yards almost every season. He's now 35 years old. And he told TMZ when asked about how much longer he intends to play, he wants to play through 2003.

Man, why not four more years, Peterson said. Why not? Why not? I would have never guessed he'd still be going he's he's sort of broken all the rules and uh you know there's a financial part of it he had some he had some debt debt woes uh like he was pretty deep in debt that was that was a public thing despite all the money he's made in this career so he wants to keep going but it is a sign of his greatness how well he's still running and west has been on this i've been expecting him to fall off a cliff and i've prematurely buried him

Adrian Peterson ran really well last year. I don't know if he's still going to keep getting jobs, but he ran really well. You would never have known that he was 34 years old last year. Yeah, I'm kind of out of the business of, you know, proclaiming doubt about Adrian Peterson's on-field ability at this point because I've been clearly wrong about his career, like twice, in the latter stages. I don't understand.

I'm not sure, you know, the way football offensive game planning is working that a early down thumper who is of no use in the passing game, project that out to someone who would be, you know, mid-late 30s, four years from now. I don't know what role he would demand. He wasn't happy on the Saints sharing workloads, if you recall. So, you know, he's going to have to lower some of his asking, you know, elements of saying,

how much do I get the ball? Maybe a lot less. How about that? So this was actually a new one. I have a running list of tropes, trope alerts in the NFL offseason, both during mini-camps and then through training camp. And this is a good one to add.

So how would you describe this one? This is aging player believes he could play multiple more seasons. Yeah, it's very often I'm going to play five more years or till I'm 40, which in this, it checks both boxes, Adrian Peterson. I'm going to play until I'm 40. I'm going to play five more years. But yeah, aging player, I'm going to play X more years. Well, he's kind of.

kind of interesting because he's 35. So he's saying, I want to play four more years. So he wants to play until he's 39 and not five years, but four. So maybe he's mixing up a little bit to keep us on our toes. I'd go five. Nice round number. I feel like his over under is one and a half for more years. But as Mark said, he's proven us wrong.

He's a Hall of Fame. There's not many, as Mark said, early down thumpers like that wording that are going to be making the Hall of Fame as a running back in the coming years. He might be the last one for a long, long time or maybe ever. Who knows? This also gave me the idea. I looked up how many boxes there are in a bingo board and there's 25. If I could come up with, right now I have 18 or 19.

If I can just get up to 25, we could create a trope bingo. And that would just be a lot of fun. I feel like every year. So I'm working on that. If anybody, listeners out there, if you have any tropes that are your favorites during this time of year, please hit me up and maybe there'll be some new ones I can add to the list to get to 25. All right. Finally in the news.

Big Ben Rathlisberger. He's recovering from a nasty elbow injury that required surgery and effectively wiped out his 2019 season. But he says he's cleaned up his life and more importantly since his early career issues, run-ins with the law. And he had some issues that he acknowledged during a virtual conference for Christian men. Then he acknowledged that he fought off the field devices over the years. Here's the quote. It's not always easy. People don't realize all the time that us athletes were human.

We sin like everyone else. I am no different. We make mistakes. We get addicted to things. We sin. We're human. I think sometimes we get put in this pedestal where we can't make mistakes. I fall in as short as anybody.

I've been addicted to alcohol. I've been addicted to pornography, which makes me then not the best husband, not the best father, not the best Christian I can be. Big Ben got married in 2011. He's still married to his wife. They have children. And he's being very

open about his past issues. How about that? Well, I mean, go ahead. Go ahead. I think people, number one, like, I... No one wants to touch this one. No. I don't...

Big Ben, like, in terms of... First of all, the problem with being a quarterback in the NFL is your life from the age of, even if you're a middling quarterback, is tracked heavily from the age of like 20 through 28. I don't, I'm glad that, you know, most people listening to the show don't know most of the things that happened to me or the things that I did between those years. I mean, there were some good things, but there's a lot of stuff that would have created headlines for the wrong reasons, too. I do think, um, specifically with Big Ben, because that was, um, brought up when he got married to this woman specific

that people can change a little bit. I think his compass has changed. This isn't the same guy of 10 years ago. So I don't think, you know, he's owning up to who he was and who he is and the fact that he's not perfect. He's kind of a dartboard for us to attack on the show sometimes. But, I mean, when's the last time that Big Ben has been a problem for anyone? Sure. But, you know, these aren't youthful and discretions.

These are two accusations of rape. And if that happens, no one's discounting that. I'm talking about, can people change after that? Absolutely. But I'm, I am just thinking he is an interesting guy to think about because if that had happened, you know, in the last few years, does he stay with the same team he's on? You know, that marriage that that you mentioned was was a year after the second of those two accusations. And you can go back and look at the police reports and in the reason. and why the accuser the second time around didn't want to go through with the trial

because she didn't want it intruding on her life. But it's real deal stuff. And I think that's always been something that people who have followed the league are, you know, it's a shadow over Ben Rathesburg. And maybe this is, you know, he has not addressed those issues too directly over the years. And maybe this is part of, you know, the first step of doing that. And the NFL, by the way, reduced that suspension from six to four games. Right.

Right. A very different time. And the Steelers sort of transparently, like, pretended like they were going to maybe trade it. Or maybe they really were going to trade them, but it didn't happen. I think it's true. And I've, having covered the league for 10 years now, I remember Mark, a lot of different cases that would pop up that we'd write one-off newsers on that would then disappear. And if they happen today, and this is a good thing, that it's a much bigger deal. And, yeah, I think Big Ben in terms of his career aspects and the number of games he's played and the fact that he's still a member of the Steelers, I think the fact that that stuff went down 10 years ago, it made it a lot different because of it happened today. I don't know.

I don't know if he's even in football anymore. It's changed that much and that's a good thing. And it should be noted that he wasn't convicted of any crime. But like Greg said, yes, there was, if you did the research on it and read it up on it, It was not a good situation. I think Ralthusberger is in these comments is saying that he's moved to try to be a better person from where he was at that time in his life. Pornography thing. That's interesting, huh?

I stress out about that as a father, too, because, like, growing up, we were in a totally different place of that. Like, I see your face, Greg. I know you shouldn't even talk about this stuff, but it's like, no, no, no. That's not why I'm making a face. world now in that realm. I actually stress out about it as a father of two boys what you have access to and things of that nature. Big Ben is of our generation. So I guess he wasn't in the same boat. But you could go down dangerous past with that for sure, too. Absolutely. I'm commendable that he owns up to that. Right. I think also, you know, we're fathers of kids and mine are a little bit older than

your guys. But their ability to like get to places on the internet, this is not breaking news. It's like stunning. And it's like their brains work that way. And what they're able to discover probably by an earlier age than I discovered some of that stuff can mess with you. So I think the parental concern is very, very real. And like, it's probably better just to be upfront about that than to run away from it, you know? Yeah, Big Ben is a different situation than what I'm talking about. Yeah, but it is, it's a thing. All right. That's what's happening in the news. Time for Cousins. Going deep.

He's got digs. That's a touch. That's out. What a plane. Cousins. Dealing. He's got it. Badded at the line of spring.

Battened back and picked off. Can you believe this? Pick six. Anthony Harris pinball style. That's the throw that could very well erase all the conversation about whether or not Kirk Cousins can show up big in the big game. The Minnesota Vikings are up next. in the wheel of teams 10 and 6

last season. They advanced to the divisional playoffs and then were wiped away by the 49ers. But they are back. Looking to make noise in the NFC North joining us. Our guest, we like to get someone who is connected to the team whether that's as a beat writer

or in this case as a well-known fan. And we have Drew McGarry, who is a columnist for Mediums Gen magazine formerly of course of Deadspin, in GQ. He's got a new book called Point B out. Please check that out. He's a great writer, Drew. Thank you for joining us on the around NFL podcast.

Hey, thank you for having me, Olin. I appreciate it. Dan mentioned that as we were talking to, you're giving off a little bit of like a Brian Bosworth vibe here calling us with the blue skies behind you from your vacation home, apparently. I'm just like Bosned. Just like Bosz, except I fulfilled my potential after college in a much more acceptable. So, all right, so Drew is also a big Vikings fan, as I said, and you may or may not remember this, Drew, but a few years back, my pain rankings comma did for the NFL,

ranking the most pain franchises. I had asked you to help me out with a Q&A portion of that, and you nicely did that. And to explain that Drew's real deal, I asked them who the patron saint of pain was for the Vikings, And I thought he'd say Gary Anderson, but he said it was Waswas Sir Wangua, who was a cornerback who got roasted in the NFC title game, the 41-0 loss to the Giants. That was maybe more on Denny Green for putting a poor Mr. Sirwangua in that spot, right, Drew? Yeah, I always thought I was never as mad at Gary Anderson as everyone else was.

He got sort of the Ray Finkel treatment after he missed that one field goal. But I put that title game more on Denny taking a knee at the end than I ever. ever put on gear. I'd ask you this. I mean, you wrote this incredible book about parenting. You're with your kids during your work holiday that you mentioned. Someone could get hurt, basically, is the name of the book. As a parent raising younger people, do you feel that if you pass on the Vikings fanhood

to these young hearts and minds that someone could get hurt more times over than they need to? I haven't passed on Vikings fandom to them. I actually don't live in Minnesota anymore. I grew up in Minnesota. I don't live there anymore. And I live in Maryland, which is worse because it puts them in danger of being skins fans.

And I despise them. I'm all my heart and soul. And my, but two of my kids don't care about football. And my middle kid, who's 11, he adopted the skins. And I didn't object to it. I was just like, you make that bad. You lie in it. I'm like, you know, like, you.

No, because obviously, if I had bequeathed him, the Vikings fan in my world, giving him a lifetime of pain. But now he gets to be in pain and he gets to be mortified to be a skins fan. That's what I am. So, Drew, let's kind of turn our attention to the 2020 Vikings here. And tell me where you kind of see them, where they fit in the landscape of the NFL. Because to me, they're kind of a tough read. Are they an actual contender?

Are they your classic 9 and 7, 10, and 6, 11 and 5 imposter that's never going to seriously contend for a Super Bowl with Kirk Cousins there? Where do you see this Vikings team? Do you have Super Bowl aspirations as a fan of the team? Or do you see this team as maybe a bit of a fraud? Well, I mean, they're always frauds, right? They are by far, I mean, I've said this a lot, but they are by far the winningest team. in NFL history to never win a Super Bowl. They're, I believe, maybe fifth or six all time and win-loss percentage.

And you have to go down all the way to like number 16 or 17 to find another team in terms of all-time win-loss percentage that hasn't won a Super Bowl. So, you know, they're always fraudulent whenever they're good. This particular year, though, I think most people have them paid for being average because obviously they trade away Stefan Diggs. they got rid of Xavier Rhodes and they got rid of Trey Wains. Wains, I thought, was better than his stat suggested Xavier Rhodes fell off a cliff and into the sewer last year.

So I think that was that big of a deal. So they're essentially hoping for Greenhorns like Mike Hughes to succeed for them in the secondary and that will really dictate whether or not they're able to do anything this year. The other thing is that they're putting a lot of stock in a first round rookie and Justin Jefferson to fill the hole the digs had

and of course the problem is that there's been no minicamp what training camp will look like with COVID I don't know whether or not there will be a season I still think is debatable so you know how they're able to integrate Justin Jefferson

who plays more of the slot than outside into that offense and still give to give Kirk Cousins protection to throw the ball and do the things that he was able to do last year so well, I think all of that's up for debate. So I think they're going to be pegged as like an 8 and 8, 9 and 17.

The good news is that the Vikings are usually good when they're pegged to be terminally average. Like the year they went 15 and 1 in their Denny Green, no one expected them to go 15 and 1. So, you know, the years that they let down. They surprised me, yeah, they surprised me by being really good at first those years. And then they destroy my soul.

But that could be this year, but I don't know. Also, this is one of those years where if they play, I'm just happy to see them play, you know? It's funny. I'd love to hear your take on the, go ahead. I was going to say, you've got me thinking this is actually kind of a typical, you know, Vikings era. If they're always pretty, because I was going to say like this Mike Zimmer era,

I was curious, like, how Vikings fans feel about it in general, because they're always pretty good. But they're, like, as Dan said, They're never, like, quite real contender. They're always, like, counting on defense when their defense is good, but you're not going to win a, they're not like, hey, we're going to go dominate and win a Super Bowl good. I kind of like the idea that right now, they're a little bit more of an offensive team with Gary Kubiak, with Dalvin Cook, with Dielan. And then it's kind of weird to, like, think that you're an offensive team. You're going to go as far maybe as your offense goes, but you've got Kirk Cousins leading the way.

Like, what's the Vikings fans feeling of Cousins now going into his third year? I think every Vikings fan is more or less like the rest of the NFL, and they think Kirk Cousins is a fraud. And, again, I live in Maryland, so I've seen him be fraudulent throughout his career. But, you know, the other thing about having Kirk Cousins is your quarterback is that it's weird. You have no choice but to defend them. You know, you have to be like, well, if you look at stats. He's pretty good.

He is pretty good. he's a good quarterback and you know I think whether or not he can actually win a Super Bowl it's very very dependent on who's around him like he's not he's not Aaron Rogers he can't make chicken

salad out chicken SHIT so like you know that that's just who he is it's going to be a bigger task for him this year without digs because I thought Diggs was the best wide out in the NFL I know why they traded him again it's kind of but um

but I I understand why they had to do that. But it makes his life harder, and it'll make his life harder if Dalvin Cook doesn't come into camp because he wants a new contract because he deserves one. But he's in the correct offense, and he does have good players around him, and they are doing their best to make the line better, which they had not done in years before. So, honestly, you know, I'm kind of over the fatalism at this point, and I hope for the best, and if they do badly, then it's just, I'm inured to the.

than, you know, taking my psyche and putting it through a paper shredder. So it's old habit for me now. I'm inured to the habit. Well, it's funny that you, I kind of thought, it actually crossed my mind because I've been a big fan of yours for a long time, Drew, that when cousins went there, that you might have some type of meltdown, because he seems like the type of quarterback that might get a Drew McGarry type really fired up, whether it's his personality or the way he he plays the game the way he kind of some people see him as a bit of a phony some people see him

as a goody two shoes you so you're okay with this guy is kind of the face of the franchise he's definitely a goody two shoes right yeah no i don't no i don't really have a problem with it i mean remember it was interesting because they picked kirk when they had after the case kingdom season they had to pick between case sam bradford and teddy bridgewater and no one knew if teddy was going to be able to come back all the way. I think particularly Mike Zimmer thought that Case's brilliant season was essentially a one-off,

which turned out to be. And then Sam Bradford couldn't be trusted with his health and then turned out he's not in the league anymore. So essentially it was kind of the only decision they could make. I think it's possible after this year, now that Teddy's with the Panthers, that they will have regretted not signing Teddy

to a long-term deal. But at the time they did it, they simply didn't know if his leg would explode, you know, from a bolt of lightning coming from the heavens again. So I don't blame him for doing what they did. I mean, at the time, it was like, you know, I had made fun of Kirk like everybody else. And it's like, okay, well, now he's your quarterback in joy. And I had to deal with that. But again, I'm used to ritual humiliation on the football field. I'd ask you this real quick.

I mean, Arif Hassan of the Athletic, I'd like to get a good line. He called last year's Vikings a case study in the difference between good and great. And to Greg's point and what you've said, too, I kind of just feel that way about the Vikings always, that they're there. They're in the playoff picture. I had a real hard time taking them seriously last year. Does Mike Zimmer, can Mike Zimmer make them great? Is he that kind of a coach? Or have we seen the ceiling with Mike Zimmer?

okay no i don't think so i like zim zim makes a lot of in-game boners that you know will drive you crazy and you sort of hang them on them for the rest like whenever a coach makes a really stupid game management error or screws up with a timeout or something like if you're a fan it sticks to you forever like it's stuck like like before he won a super bowl last year like you know all philly eagles fans thought about wheny reedward like when he would run, you know, a dive with, you know, Brian Restbrook at like the five when it was like third and goal, you know, like that stuff just sticks with you. But I think it's pretty clear he's the best coach they've had since Bud Grant. I think he has issues in terms of, you know,

he goes through offensive coordinators like he goes through underwear. But I think once he hired Stefanski last year, he had no choice but to let Sefancy go to be a head coach in Cleveland, He replaced him with Gary Kubiak, who essentially was the puppet master of that offense a year ago. So he's made the, you know, it took him a while to figure out what he wanted in terms of offense. But he wasn't wrong in terms of his instincts and in terms of the people that he's had in it. And he coordinates his defense very well. So I can't complain about any of that. I think he's a good coach.

I think that, you know, whether or not he's a championship coach, you know, like I said, you know, people said that about that Andy Reid wasn't that guy for a long time when last year proved it was definitively untrue and had been the case even when he had in one time. So, no, I think Zimmer's a good coach, and I'm glad they have them, you know, whether or not they win a title with him, you know, the evidence shows strongly that that won't happen, but I don't think it's because of anything that Zimmer has done poorly. All right. Before we let you go, Drew, as Mark said, you're the author of many books, including a book on fatherhood. Any advice

for us parents during the summer months now of how to kind of stay sane in a household where everyone is trapped together? I know you're on a working vacation right now. Any advice from the great Drew McGarry? I left the household. My advice would be to leave,

but that's irresponsible. No, my I would say just let go a little bit. I'm sure parents have already done that. during the spring. But in the summer, you know, if you're close to outside and relatively uncramped spaces, let them be outside as much as they possibly can be.

And if they want to mess around and be on screens longer than, you know, the parenting guides tell them they can be on screens and just do it. Buy him an Xbox. Who cares? Who cares is right. I feel like Drew's in a great place right now. He's like, he seems pretty chilled out. He's fine with the Vikings. he's on like a semi he's writing articles just absolutely destroying bill simmons while

like in on a beach vacation calling him an effing failure in the san francisco chronicle i mean you're in a good spot but gary's flying i'm in a good spot i'm doing i'm doing as well as i can and you may do with what you got just like uh just like football teams all right drew thank you so much for joining us and good luck both to you with Jen magazine and all your other projects and your new book and of course to your Vikings enjoy that vacation buddy thank you guys see you thank you bye the tornado is taking him away wow I wish that the listeners could know that we have you know we tape the whole show on video of course so we could uh you know do this during the quarantine.

And Drew started the interview off with his cell phone pointed up at him, giving him the Bosworth look. And then about halfway through, he just was holding the phone where half of his hand was covering the camera. So that was enjoyable. It was good to hear from Drew McGarry. He's one of the good ones. I mean, he's got his fastball.

That, I mean, that Simmons article. I mean, that's in a major newspaper. Greg Reveller on that. He sent that to us and you could just feel the energy from Greg's house on fire. Well, when you see, I love that's, those are my favorite McGarry pieces is when he just decides to, you know, he just doesn't get, give a fuck. Like he, he goes for it. If he's, he wants to take someone down, he's going to do it. Yeah, he once famously had a column for Deadspin called LeBron James as a cuck sucker. No, that's not fair.

You know, Eric is not going to make her afternoon match with Yvonne Lendell if we keep dropping curse words into the show. Just throwing that out there. I don't know. Who's playing tennis in her backyard tennis court up there? It seems like you could pull some legit talent former UNH tennis player. Maybe not. Not feeling that, apparently.

Yep. Wow, Erica, definitely not paying attention to the show right now. All right. Hey, before we move on, any other thoughts, Greg, you did the, roster projection for the Vikings. What do you think about that defense, by the way? I mean, do you think it's proven, especially up front? It's a little different.

And the back end, it's going to look different. It's totally different. Drew made a good point about, you know, the court, you know, the pandemic that normally I would think, look, Mike Zimmer's been there forever and they still have a lot of veterans. They're actually a team that's, you know, what you would think would be well set up and have a lot of continuity. But they just so happened to have the biggest turnover that their defense. has had by far in the Mike Zimmer era.

I mean, their entire secondary, which, you know, he mentioned is, is new. They're counting on their first round pick, Jeff Gladney to play, but it's Mike Hughes. It's Holton Hill. And then up front, too, like their defensive end position has always been one of the best in the league. Defensive tackle, too, really the whole line. And right now it's DeNeil Hunter, who's great. And then it's some question mark.

Shamar Stevens been there for a bit and is a solid player. But they brought in Michael Pierce. They gave him a lot of money. the Ravens nose tackle. They have a guy, Oh, Hedimbo, who Wes loved, who came on super strong at the end of last year. But he's a fourth-year player, a seventh-round pick. He might have been on the Browns at one point.

I'm not even, he went around the league a couple times and looked like a stud. So suddenly, like, they were known for their pass rush, setting up everything. And suddenly you're counting on some guys that have not been there. And I think they would be helped out greatly if they could bring back Everson Griffin, who's still out there. I think that's a possibility, especially, you know, Everson Griffin going to a whole new scheme and a whole new team versus this. He said with his own in his own words that he'd go back.

I mean, Mike Zimmer, if he does one thing, you know, consistently well over the course of a very long career is coach up secondaries. So I think you've got a little bit more of an advantage there with him than a different coach. But I'd flip to the other side of the ball and, you know, you've moved Stefan Diggs. I thought they've got a good return on that trade. But you're asking Justin Jefferson, they need him to come in and be like a thousand-yard receiver. I mean, at least in terms of talent right away. And how many wide receivers that look, that sound like a great deal on June 24th in past years, take it a couple of years to

warm up? I mean, asking a rookie receiver to come in and flip the switch like that is last asking a lot. And they don't really have a third receiver. We talked about the Seahawks. They don't have much depth. And the Vikings are pretty similar. Irv Smith is a guy. If we were doing, you know, making the leap where we were doing 15 guys, like back in the old days, Irv Smith would make my list, the second year tight end, who did a lot of things, who's kind of what you're looking for, who can kind of, he can block, but he's definitely a fun receiver. And I could see him being a nice, maybe their number two receiver. And Vikings vans will tell you, they haven't had an incredible amount of luck in recent years

on high profile wide receivers breaking in and being the impact players they need them to be. Maybe that ends with the latest guy. And I guess one thing I disagreed or I disagree with what Drew said was he kind of had them pegged to the Vikings as a team that's seen nationally as a middling 500 team. I don't quite get that vibe. I think overall, even with Stefan Diggs out of the picture that people will be picking the Vikings for the playoffs, but they are, at least some people will, but they are a team that going back to kind of the overarching point of the beginning of that conversation,

you know, they squeezed by the Saints and that was a great job and, you know, to go to New Orleans in that wild car round and get out of there with a win that included that touchdown drive and overtime with cousins, which was so big for his career. That was huge. But then you go to San Francisco the next week and you're not even competitive from the opening kickoff essentially. It had like eight first downs in that game.

You're right. I went back and looked at the box score. And it's like I kind of forgot how that was just even more one-sided than the score. When everyone talks about the run defense, but it was their offense did not show up on any. The whole team, why fly them there? I don't know how much it costs. And that had to save the money.

And that happened several times to them. There was, I remember that game we watched in the garage that I believe was a Monday night game with the Vikings when Keith Hansis was in town where they pulled another total no-show on offense. They had 147 total yards in that playoff loss. And the Niners kind of took the foot off the pedal or that could have been one of those like, you know, Jaguars, Dolphins, disgraceful playoff blowouts.

It ended up 27 to 10, as I believe. Anyway. The Vikings. We'll see where they fit. I think they're the safest. I guess they would be my pick to win the division. To me, they are a safer team.

I'm not sure like about the pack. Like to me, the Packers are, they could be good, they could be bad. I actually do feel kind of, you think the Packers can be bad? Yeah.

I mean, I think they could be like seven and nine. I think they could be a seven and nine type of team. Sure. They have a higher floor than that. I, I think the Vikings have a pretty high floor, I guess is a good way to put it.

You know, I think they will, I would be really surprised if at the end of the year, they're not in the, at least in the mix. And if I was picking one of those teams in the north, they would be it. I would just, I'd always ticket them for a wild card in this era. And anything on top of that is gravy. But that's just a terrible scenario for a fan base. Does anyone have any concept in their mind of them going to the Super Bowl in this current incarnation? No.

I could think of a lot of fan bases that, are in a way worse spot. Worse, but they're stuck in that, like, you're not a terrible team. You also are just basically one of these teams that float through our lives. It's nine and seven, like five or six years in a row. And I have to spend way more time talking about them than I'd want to. Because they're eventually going to get waxed in January. You hope to just get in the playoffs and then catch some breaks, maybe.

But you're right. I think part of the reason you feel that way, and it's totally fair, is their two best teams under Zimmer have been apps. destroyed to get knocked out of the playoffs. So even the Vikings at their best under Zimmer got totally hammered, whether it was last year or when the Eagles took them out. I kind of forgot how much Mark hated the Vikings last year and then bubbled up there in his comments.

A few years. Ever since he picked them as the team of ATL at 5 and 0, it's really the only team of Sestiel, the only team that he's ever sort of put his heart out there. and it was like they immediately cratered and it was like it was almost like Mark was like feeling he spread his brown juice on another team and it just was like too much I remember it was genuinely uncomfortable when the Vikings went on a five game losing streak in that season it got really awkward no one was responding to his text no because also what was happening was this campaign happening on air where Dan you know rewriting history like some would like to do talking about how he was all along on the Raiders You know, I was the Raiders guy. I wanted the Raiders.

It's like, I was. I know, but I refuse to anoint them as team of ATL without four-person buy-in. And you gave buy-in and then you pulled it when times got tough. And I didn't like that. Bringing up bad feelings. I can tell. And I love it. I love it.

I couldn't get West to buy-in on the Raiders. And that was the fun Derek Carr season. That was annoying to me. But I hadn't thought about it. All right. Good stuff today. Thank you, Drew McGarry. Ricky, you know, when we bring you into the show, we just, we got to have buy-in from you, Ricky.

Need it. Didn't get it on that last interaction with Mark. No, I can't win. You're calling me Blue Bloods. You get mad. You're taking 10. Like I just said, yeah, I'm not going to engage with your absolute slander. Wow.

Well, I was not trying to take you into that area with that comment. So I apologize right here on the show. Serena Williams is hitting tennis balls at my head while I'm recording. All right. Okay. That's a bit of a, that's a bit of a sore spot. Now we're starting to learn that.

And then forget about entertainment value as friends. We should recognize that Eric is uncomfortable and strive to be better. Absolutely. I thought the EVE on Lendl a bit was funny. I don't even know who that is. That is a funny name to bring up. Well, you know what you can do? You can drive.

It's probably closed right now. but the pro tennis hall of fame isn't that just a little you know it's not too far away it's in rhode island's basically the same state uh and you can go look at the the bust or whatever they do there and you can check out uh evan linda one of the most uh disliked tennis players of all time yeah you can do ricky just take the chopper over to the tennis hall fame good luck with your front page uh paper dan o all right this is getting ugly let's end the show immediately all right uh we'll be be back on Friday. The network shows back, uh, the around the NFL broadcast on Friday, 6 p.m.

Eastern, 3 p.m. Pacific. So make sure, uh, you tune in for that. And again, everybody, it's like, how do I watch the show if I don't have NFL network? I don't know. We don't know what to tell you. You gotta have the network to watch the show. And, and these times, I'm not even going to say, go get out of the film network. Because maybe financially that doesn't make sense right now. But just consider this to be almost like a pay per view, uh, version of our show. on Friday. And if you have basic cable and you get the network, you can watch it. And if you can't watch it, that stinks, but we'll be back in podcast form on Monday.

I don't know what else to say. Stan Hansen signing off for Quiet Storm, the old boss and Ricky Hollywood from the deck. Till Friday. Really letting it ride today. Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to

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