NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Are the Cowboys vulnerable?

Episode Date: July 26, 2017

A room filled with heroes – Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler, Chris Wesseling, & Gregg Rosenthal – recap all the latest news from around the NFL including the Cowboys cutting Lucky Whitehead and extending La'el Collins. Marc then reads his ode to the newest possible Browns superstar before the heroes recap the second season of "All or Nothing."Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast has no fear of Miko Grimes. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast presented by New Era. My name is Dan Hansis and I am joined by a room filled with heroes, Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosenthal. What's up, boys? Hey, Dan. What is happening? Not too much.

So rare for the four of us to be together. Well, maybe not so much. We're settling in. It's time. We're settling in, bra. Okay. This is, by the way, our Tuesday video show, which you can check out. The audio drops before the video, correct? That's right.

So, you know, if you're listening to this now and you want us to watch the video, NFL.com slash ATN video. Thank you. behind the glass at 6.30 p.m. Pacific time, 9.30 Eastern. If you're in the U.K., figure it out. It'll be sitting there in perpetuity. Forever. You know, so if you don't catch it live. The whole archive's there. This is our third episode, Tuesday episode. You can watch all of them, including the one today, later today.

Is it great, great for binging on the weekend? What else would you rather do? It is. This is also something of an anniversary. We are, this week, marks the fourth year anniversary of the around the NFL podcast, which started out as the Around the League podcast, which began as Mark, of course. The debate club, which was produced for a period of time by Alex Wilk. Behind the glass once more. Yep.

Alex, by the way, if I remember this historically, worked as hard as possible to get off the show, There was absolutely an effort to get off this production. And now he's taking a step back in his career. I do remember, this is a couple of years ago. I'm sure Alex remembers it. But I approached Alex privately in a meeting asking if he wanted to be the full-time producer of this show. And at the time, he was a rising star on the network side of production. So he basically blew me off and said, nah, bra, I'm out.

And I said, I respect it. And I think it was the right move I am. I think so. I don't know. I'd like to say for the record that I've never said bra in my life, despite being from Southern California. You're my Southern California bra. I don't bra. Four years is a long time, though.

Also, yeah. I've lived in my apartment four years. That's the longest I've lived in any apartment since I was a kid. Like in any, I'm sure you guys are the same since I was a kid. I've had this job now five years. That's the longest I've had the same job without like a different company buying it or kind of changing. I mean, that's a long time. No, that means that it's more of the.

product of where we are in our lives, where you start to get locked into a routine, settle for something that's secure, stop testing yourself, stop taking chances, and then all of a sudden you're getting the gold watch and the $400 a month pension and away you go. Greg also spent many years as a, you know, on the run for petty crimes, constantly moving from job to job and city to city. Okay, so yeah, four years. Thank you for, thank you to everyone that's been along for the whole ride because I'm pretty sure we've gotten better from then to now. Maybe we're in decline now. I don't know. We'll see this upcoming season. This will be a big season in terms of our ability

to remain what I believe to be, us being an essential NFL podcast. But to this point, I think we have become one. We'll see if we can keep it up. I think four years into your career during your prime. Yeah. Okay. We haven't hit gradual decline yet. Well, as I know well, you can not really judge when a gradual decline picks in. Today, show it's going to be a fun one because we got here's what's coming up today we're going to talk about the latest involving andrew luck uh and his injury situation is he going to be ready for the season is going to be ready for training camp uh we will also hit upon all or nothing i sent it out to the listeners uh in our last show do you want to talk about all or nothing and it came back in a wave

at me i shouldn't have seen this coming talk about all or nothing so we will hit our final takeaways on that and i did do my homework and binge watched it over the last two days And finally, our Training Camp Spotlight series rolls on. We're going to take a look at the Dallas Cowboys Camp Battles, which Greg knows intimately, which we'll get to the reason why a little bit later. But before we do any of that, let's now say hello to the other producer behind the glass.

It's a big operation back there. His name is Sully. What's up, bud? What's up, guys? I actually went back and listened to the intro of the first episode, and it was quite different. to do Dan, no hey Dan, so that was sad, and no ho either, so. Well, ho is not really a thing.

I know it's not a thing, but you're making it a thing now. Oh, you're doing ho? I mean, I'm not intentionally. As of when, when is that a thing? It's becoming a thing. I think I've done it two or three times maybe ever. I don't know. You're stringing some podcasts together where you have a ho.

Well, you've just guaranteed it will never happen again. All right, good. I didn't like it anyway, so. There was no hey Dan on that episode because I drew the short straw and had to stay down in the newsroom to cover the news day. Yeah, that's how those early shows operated. Which was a really nice system, I thought, by management that was put into place early on to help grow the show.

But somehow we've survived and let's start Sully by doing some news, my buddy boy. There's only four words. This one's for John. All right. So, gentlemen, we're going to get to Mr. Railway in a couple of minutes, but let's start with a bit of a

circus taking place down in Dallas involving a fifth string wide receiver. Mark, you've been all over this beat for NFL.com today. I know that. Okay, continue. Lucky Whitehead. And let's start here. Lucky Whitehead. Who is Lucky Whitehead? He is a wide receiver on the Dallas Cowboys. He is. He was. He was. He was. That's the tense was incorrect already on my part. He was released or is to be released. I don't know if this formally the paperwork's gone through yet, after he was, it came to light that he was involved in some type of robbery situation at a convenience store. Do I have this right?

Should I have read this beforehand? Correct. And then, and then the, yeah, I should have. And then the Cowboys said, oh, well, this is it. We're done with this guy. We're cutting them. And then today comes around, and it's revealed by the police, but they had the wrong guy. The guy said he was lucky white, whitehead.

He gave his date of birth, which matched. He gave his social security number, even though he had no ID or ID. identification on him. But so they cleared Lucky Whitehead of chart. This is the same Lucky Whitehead, Wes, that had a dog that was kidnapped and held by ramp, held for ransom by a rapper last week. Same guy. Seems like a high maintenance guy.

Anyway. So the police clear lucky, but the Cowboys decide they're going to stay put with their decision, which led to a uncomfortable press conference today with Jason Garrett, the coach of the Cowboys, who went the. Bill Belichick were on to Cincinnati route when asked repeatedly how the Cowboys handle this perhaps improperly. Let's listen in to the coach. Guys, we made a decision yesterday that we thought was in the best interest of our team.

And in evaluating the particular situation and the context of that situation, we felt like we made a decision in regards to Lucky that was right for our team. And we stand by that decision. On a personal level, as someone who's known him for a while, Are you happy that it's turned out this way that, in fact, he was not involved in this crime? I think the best thing for Lucky is to have a clean slate. And he'll have a new opportunity somewhere else. That's good for him.

And again, it's in the best interest of our football team. Did he tell you that he didn't do it? We had a number of conversations with Lucky regarding this. And again, we made a decision that we think is in the best interest of the Dallas Cowboys. Why are some of the other players, Jason, dealing with off the field issues and still on the Cowboys? Guys, this will be the last time I'll say it. I appreciate your interest in it. We made a decision yesterday in regards to Lucky Whitehead that we think is in the best interest of the Dallas Cowboys.

We're standing by that decision. We're going to move forward. If you have any other football questions, I'm happy to answer them. Let me just clarify that he was accused of shoplifting, not robbery, which brings to mind like a guy with a sought-off shotgun raging into the place. Shoplifting some goods. Mark, the Cowboys are getting killed for this right now. Do you think they deserve to be? Well, I think the timing of it and the way that the thing has played out is not a good look for the Cowboys.

But what I heard Jason Garrett say during the end of that press conference, someone asked, is there something else going on with this player that we don't know about? And he said, there's a lot going on with all our players that you don't know. And I think that this was whatever, the incident that we've heard about, but they have such a large catalog on everyone they employ that they know about. And so much is going on with these players behind the scenes that we'll never hear about. This must have just been the final thing when they said the lucky whitehead experience in Dallas is over.

Well, and they drafted his replacement. He had a hard, I mean, if he was a better player, he'd be on the team. That's just how the NFL works. They don't say that, but they drafted his replacement in Ryan Twitzer. He was believed to have an uphill battle just to make the team in the first place. His nine career catches and averages 6.9 yards per punt return. Everybody's losing their minds over this guy because this is the cowboy. Well, it's a great story.

It's a crazy story. It's a crazy story and it's not a good look. But the bottom line is people who have no idea what's going on behind closed doors in Dallas are being way too cynical in this matter. Yeah, I agree. There also, you know, is the fact Ian Rapport reported that some of his friends had his wallet or something at the time. So they had access to his social security, whether there was, you know, I think some rumors under the radar of what was really going on with the dog ransom last week. there were some incidents last year that they referred to, but it still looks bad because it's the first day of training camp. Literally at the time they're telling Lucky Whitehead that this is

happening, Jerry Jones is standing at a podium with a 35 foot tall inflatable football behind him and a 45 foot tall star. And there's like fireworks. It's like an introductory ceremony in Southern California. And he's saying, I've never been more excited about a season than this one. And at that very moment, they are bungling this release, which Jason Garrett said just hours before, we need to get all the information and, you know, then make a correct decision, which they decided basically not to do. A couple things. Lucky Whitehead had to say to the Dallas Morning News on Tuesday, no one had my back. I didn't even get to clear my name.

I was pretty much being called a liar. So, yeah, the Cowboys, obviously, the move, I think, would have been to let this blow over, let the dust clear a little bit, see where we are in a few days. he's saying, if you're either not giving him the opportunity to explain to his side of the story or you're not believing him, then the cops exonerate him after. It's just a bad look for the Cowboys. They were too quick to jump on this, despite what might be going on beyond the scenes with Lucky Whitehead, who may be a pain in the ass, we don't know. But the other thing I just want to say, like, and I don't know, I feel like the whole story's not out yet, and maybe it will come out. But does it not pass the smell test for anyone else that whoever this person was that

was, by the way, on the loose, which is kind of a fun wrinkle to this too. I guess he posted bail or something. He's just, nobody knows who he is because he gave the wrong identity. But he knew Lucky Whitehead's social security number. Is there some type of dot to connect here? Well, it was someone close to him. Ian Rappaport. Yeah, what's your wife's social security number?

What's your mom social security number? I have no idea. What's your social security number? That I know. That doesn't, you're right. That doesn't pass the smell test. And whatever is going on with Lucky Whitehead, I think it's reasonable that the Cowboys have decided he's more trouble than he's worth. Yeah.

Well, I mean, we've kind of glossed over the whole dog ransom thing that's going on. There's a lot to be wondering about. I'm a little concerned as at our meetup in San Francisco before Super Bowl 50. As a sign-off to one of our podcast listeners on a football, I wrote in permanent marker my social security number to a girl, and she fled away with it. Who knows what's next? Yeah, one of the stranger decisions caused by alcohol in your life.

Kind of unprecedented. I don't know about that. Kind of unprecedented. All right. In other Cowboys news, Lyle Collins is getting paid. The Cowboys' Offensive lineman agreed to a two-year contract extension on Tuesday worth $15.4 million, according to Mike Garifolo. Collins is 23. He basically now makes back his lost salary from back in 2015 when he was supposed to be a first-round pick

and then some issues about a crime that had taken place that he had been connected to, but never charged or ever really in a serious way connected to it once the dust cleared in that situation. And now he basically makes that money back after pulling himself out of the draft. Wes, Collins has really been everything they hoped he would be, and now he's getting paid, so you've got to be happy for him a little bit. Well, he's been injured. He missed a good chunk of last year. They expect him to be their right tackle.

But this is about him not getting drafted, which meant he was due to hit the open market one year ahead of everyone else who got drafted in that same class. And that was the advantage of going undrafted. That's why he told teams don't draft me. One of the great agent moves, I believe, of the last decade. They bluffed the entire league into not drafting him. They even admitted after the fact, they said, we had no recourse. They weren't going to be able to wait until the next draft.

Anyone could have had him, and they basically threatened the league. Don't draft him or else, you know, we're not going to show up. They would have had to show up, and it ended up working out great. You got to choose the Cowboys, and now he's making some cash. It was a very serious situation, if you remember now. His name was connected to the murder of a 29-year-old pregnant woman in Louisiana. Which he had no connection to it again. It was just it ended up being someone he had had a relationship with.

It was crazy bad timing because it happened three days before the draft. It was any other timing they'd be fine. Seems like either every year or every other year, there's one player that's supposed to be a first-round pick and something crazy bonkers happens. But the one-two punch this one, then the next year with the gas mask bong, Laramie Tunsell, that's quite a one-two punch. I'll be hard to defeat.

I would say so. Bonkers. Bonkers. Anyway, moving on. Yes, John Elway. You heard the man? Bowling. There's only four words.

This one's for John. John Elway is the Broncos. Let's face it. And after leading the Broncos to two Super Bowl championships and a few more AFC conference titles in his career, he took over. as the team's general manager and immediately found a lot of success, including a Super Bowl win last year. Now the two sides have a reached agreement on a new five-year deal that keeps L.A. in Denver through the 2021 season, the team announced on Monday, is this the ultimate no-brainer for ownership to make with a front office figure was?

Absolutely. Who's been better than him? How can you do better than what? Four straight division titles, two Super Bowl appearances, signed the greatest free agent in NFL history in Peyton Manning with a pure stroke of brilliance. At the same time he signs Peyton Manning, he gets rid of Team Tebow, who's coming off a playoff victory and everybody in Denver loves him. And everything he's done since then, I mean, you can blame him for not fixing the offensive line last year, but he at least tried to. I think he's been one of the two or three best general managers in the NFL.

You get waxed in the Super Bowl, and you make an aggressive move to change the toughness of your team and defense immediately, and you get immediate results. I think the worst hot takes I've ever had in my life writing about football were, like, a couple months back in 2009, I think when they were about to hire them when I was working for pro football talk, and we were all on the corner of like, what has John Elway done to really deserve, like, running a general manager? Like, didn't two do that well with those car dealerships? The car dealership doesn't hold up well.

Because other players have come in and tried to do that themselves, and especially quarterbacks think they can do that, and they have the name to go with it. Elway is someone that has put in the work, and he completely has transformed that team. How do you outshine the playing career he had? He's done that as an executive. Adam Shine has actually copyrighted any references.

Oh, I'm not allowed to use that word on any level. Time to shine. It's out. It's out. Check it out. What? By the way, Wes in his banger right up on this. Some stats just about Elway in his time with the team. 67 and 29, Denver. Two Super Bowl appearances.

Yeah, they got waxed one year, but then beat a 17 and one team. Was it the next year? Was it the following season? Two years. Two years later. Five division titles, a 698 winning percentage. So that's how you get paid. In 22 seasons with the Broncos, I tweeted this out yesterday.

He has 12 division championships and seven Super Bowl appearances. That's as a quarterback and his executive. In 35 years without John Elway, the Broncos have three division titles and one Super Bowl appearance. He's meant more to that organization than just about anybody's meant to any NFL organization. I stared him in the eyes after they won that Super Bowl. Told him you loved him. Well, I have a complex relationship with John Elway because as a Browns fan, he kind of ruined my childhood. But then I really grew to respect him when he finally was.

won that Super Bowl? Because that AFC conference couldn't win a Super Bowl for so long. He was the one that did it. I mean, he was a fascinating player. For it to be a relationship, doesn't it have to be on both sides? We had a weird look. I would say he was essentially just looking right through me and saying, where is a doorway?

How do I get out of this situation? That's such a weird look, kind of like one you would expect on some level. But I will say it's pretty big of you. That he destroyed the city of Cleveland in the 80s, in late 80s or whatever. you now have grown to look deep in the man's eyes and hope for shared eye content. I have no choice. It's been my entire light. I mean, this guy refuses to go away. You've got to just sign up and get on board. In other news, Andrew Luck.

Wes, you did a what's more likely in our last show. Will he appear in three preseason games? I don't know. We'll see. But probably not because general manager Chris Ballard announced Monday that Andrew Luck will be placed on the physically unable to perform list. that is the pup. The roster move became official on Tuesday morning. Luck has started a throwing program after that shoulder surgery. He's still expected to be healthy in time for the regular season.

Chris Ballard, who, you know, he's a man that's known to say things. What's your favorite type of frog? And he had this to say as well. We're exactly where I thought we'd be at this time, he told the Harold Bulletin. Greg Rosenthal, week one. Andrew Luck on the field, I know you have no. Well, maybe you have sources. Who knows with Greg anymore, but we'll be ready?

These phony sources tell me he should be playing week one. I think if you listen to Chris Ballard, he essentially said he expected Andrew Luck to be ready for week one. Reading between the lines, I think I wouldn't necessarily expect them to play in the preseason at all. They didn't sound like that would be a priority. At most, it sounds like he would play one game, and it wouldn't be surprising if first time we see. him as week one, but the fact that he's

thrown again, I think if you're a Colts fan, this was a positive press conference. I don't think the timeline is something to be overly concerned about. They said he's at where they thought he would be all along and, you know, barring some sort of setback, Colts will be okay. Moving on. Robert Griffin III, the third. He shows up. He's on the radar.

RG3 is going to have a workout for the Los Angeles Chargers rap sheet reported on Tuesday. RG3 was cut by Cleveland in March. Of course, he started out with Washington. We hadn't heard his name at all, so it was a bit of a surprise that he popped up now, but there are people still maybe in the league

that remember 2012 when he was the offensive rookie of the year, and we'll see what happens. Mark, you know from your Browns fandom how he looked last year in his last four games of the 2016. He missed a lot of time, of course, with I believe a shoulder injury was it last year always an injury with him but his numbers weren't good at all

but did you see anything that says that he would be somebody that should be a quarterback even a backup on the chargers they have Kellyn Clemens Mike Bercovich Bercovici Arizona State and Eli thank you soly

and Eli Jenkins see anything can he beat out one of those guys maybe more so than Eli Jenkins but his starting days are done And it concerns me when we're getting tweets from me in Rappaport, who spoke with Pep Hamilton, who says the ball is flying out of RG3. This is what we went through last off season with RG3. And my, my, I start, what was Hugh Jackson's quote about?

The earth moved under his feet. Exactly. I mean, talk about hyperbole. And the quarterback position begins and ends with durability. And he's simply unreliable from that standpoint. So you want him for one or two games as a backup maybe? fine. I don't have a problem with that, but nothing beyond that. Yeah, I don't think Kellyn Clemens has any great shakes.

Yeah, that's the thing. Philip Rivers, when's last time Philip Rivers missed the game? Never. Never. Never, actually, is the answer. Stop jinxing the Chargers. Sorry, sorry. I'm just saying, maybe they're counting on that a little too much. Clemens and Berkavich, forget that. Hey, Berkavich! Berkavich looked really good in the preseason last year. Wes is with a surprise Burkavich. He did.

I was like, this guy looks pretty good. He's also like one of those guys that if he walks up to a jukebox and just hits it with his fist. Oh. Hey, Wakavichi. Righteous brothers, come on. Yeah, so we'll see what happens there. It's, you know, he remains kind of a fascinating figure on some level.

It's not going to help their case of being the team around the NFL if RG3 is on it. Let's just be. Yeah. He's bad juju right now. Well, the other link that. that Rappaport mentioned was that Anthony Lynn, the Chargers coach, worked with Tyrod Taylor in the past, and in theory, there's similarities between the two. I just, you know, come on with RG3.

Like, I just, this is not the player. It's so easy to try to link the current player to who he was when he was at his heights as a rookie before a terrible knee injury. Wait, so you're telling me, RG3 gets work out before Gapernick. Well, I didn't tell you that. Everyone else is telling you that. That's a trope. That's an off-season trope. Yes, it is.

Insert crappy quarterback in RG3's spot there. Don't even get me started. Although when it comes to Kellynne Clemens, you know, Kaepernick fans might have a point. It's like, what has Kellyn Clemens done to stay in the league at this level for so long? He must be a nice guy. Never looked great when he was out there.

I honestly think just being a cool guy and studying the playbook will keep you in the league as a quarterback. Part of the worst game I've ever seen as an NFL fan, Brody Croyle, versus Kellyn Clemens, Jets, Chiefs, pretty bad. Yeah, it's pretty bad. Speaking of nice guys, Dorel Freeman, you know Dorel Freeman.

He's the Bears linebacker. He was, this is an interesting story, fellas, and I wrote about it at the end around. Check it out. Dorel Freeman was in Texas. He's from Texas, and he was hopping a plane to Chicago to start Bears camp. He's at the Austin Airport Food Court, which is one of my favorite food courts in the country. I go to Austin every year. My wife is from that area, and they have a lot of great barbecue and brisket and things of that nature.

Anyway, he got a brisket sandwich at the Salt Lake Taco bar, and, you know, he's taking it down. He's putting it down. And all of a sudden, a guy next to him, he stands up in a panic. He's choking on his brisket sandwich. Literally, choking to death, potentially, standing up in a panic, looking around for help. An old lady rolls over to this guy and attempts to do the Heimlich maneuver. She's not strong enough. Luckily, there's an NFL long.

linebacker at the table next to him, bang, bang, an NFL linebacker whose mother is a nurse. So he has a vague knowledge of the heimlich, bang, bang, the dude's brisket comes pouring out of his mouth. So Drell Freeman saves this man at the food court at the Austin airport. A couple things that I really love about the story, but the one that's my favorite, and it really speaks to the guy that he saved as just being a hero that we should have on the show. The guy went back to his spot after it all calmed down. He took a picture if you're watching the video show and was tweeted out.

out, he finished his brisket sandwich. How about that? That's some good brisket. Wait, the man who went through this, he went back and ate the rest of the sandwich. After he had his life saved, I'm sure there's a huge commotion. He took a picture with Jarrell who then tweeted it, sat back down at the table, and went back to town on his brisket. That restaurant should use that in advertising.

Was it Franklin's barbecue? It was the Salt Lick Taco Bar. So there you go. It's one of the best stories of the offseason. And I think it truly was heroic. If you, like, I always get worried because I don't know the Heimlich maneuver. Like, I kind of vaguely know it from watching other people do it. But, like, I should, at this point in life, you should know how to save someone's life in that situation.

But he tweets out, hey, I just save someone's life. I mean, let someone else maybe. That's not even a humble brag. That's a plain brag. But I'll give it to him, though. I'll give it to him. In this case, though, it was a great story. If he doesn't tweet that out, we might never get the story on.

it, and I believe that's a story that deserves to be told. I think you get a free brag if you save a person's life. Sure. That's worth bragging about it. Have any of you guys choked even momentarily? I bet we all have. Yes. It's probably the worst feeling in the world.

There's that panic, and you don't know whether to cause a commotion to get help, but then you know you're in trouble. It is, I had one incident that was really bad. It was at a, my grandfather, rest in peace. It was doing like an elk's golf tournament. And I went with my dad, and we did the golf tournament. And then there was a banquet afterwards, and I think I was chowed down on prime rib. And I got a little, you know, OZ, overzealous.

And all of a sudden, I got something stuck in my windpipe. It felt like, and I was like, what am I going to do here? And then your eyes get all panicked. And then luckily, it went down right as I was standing up in the middle of this banquet hall. I was like, Jesus. Thank God, body. Good work. What a tale from the Elks Lodge.

I wasn't expecting to go to the Elks Lodge. today. Tells from the Elks Lodge. My ex-girlfriend reminded me of this in my most recent trip to Tybee that we went out to dinner with my family once. I was eating French onion soup with the cheese on top. Oh, no. I got the cheese stuck, and I started pulling it out of my mouth like a clown with a long, multicolored tissue. I'm just pulling cheese out of my mouth, like choking to death.

That's a silent killer. Yeah, Wes is love her clowns coming in and helping a big spot. Greg, you were born age 32, so maybe you didn't have any childhood incidents, but how about near-adultant? I can't remember any choking incidents. I don't know. Mark? Oh, yeah, the moment that you described, I can't.

It wasn't at the Elks Lodge or anything, but I've been through the similar, you know, terrifying couple of seconds. Okay. And moving on, wrapping up the news here. Josh Cribbs, a longtime Browns receiver. He was on NF, good morning football today. And he was asked by Kyle Brandt, one of the hosts of that program. Great program.

Great program about his thoughts on the L.A. Chargers being ahead of the Browns and the old Zeusers pain rankings. Let's check it out. Let's get to this. NFL.com's Dan Hansis, friend of the show. He released the 2017 fan-based pain rankings. He has the Browns sitting at number two. They're telling me in my ear that they've changed it. Number one now is Josh Cribbs during the third singing of wheels on the bus. That's number one.

But how do you feel about the Cleveland Browns showing up in the two spot? Oh, that's awful. That's awful. The Cleveland Brown should be number one. Okay. But we've suffered the most, and that's why we have the greatest fan base, not because of the winning, but because the fans stick around. They don't never have blackouts for our games.

They stick around rain or shine, snow, and it's a lot of snow in Cleveland. The fans come out in droves, and we don't win. That's a fair point. I thought that he answered that was a fair way to come back. dead-on analysis is how I would describe it. Yeah, it was good. And Schrager came back at me on Twitter, and he was coming after me a little bit about it saying, I've been too affected by the sun-kissed weather out here.

He basically called you soft. Yeah, to which I said, now I can say that I have been accused that both East Coast and West Coast bias. Here I come Middle America. I'm going to get you. And then I thought, you know, who did a really nice job, Will Brinson reading the tea leaves. He came into the conversation and said,

Let's just, you know, like the Cowboys, maybe we should let the dust settle. And in a couple of years, we'll see if the Chargers are still at number one. I felt like this year it was a good spot for him. Let me tell you something. If the Browns continue to suck for another couple of years when I revisit this, they're probably going to take that in one spot back. It's tough to be in the number one spot, go out and go one in 15 in the worst season in the organization's history and somehow have a less painful reflection in your column.

So I appreciate what Josh Cribs had to say. Yeah, I did. It wasn't about the Browns. But if Schrager's going to come on Twitter and start taking shots, you know, make sure you're not in the glass house. You know, when they showed that board up on the screen that Josh Cribbs is looking at the ranking, says Los Angeles Chargers. No, no, no, no.

It was the San Diego Chargers. Good point, Greg. Who are the most. We get the argument. How do you respond, Dan, to the allegations? That's exactly what they are, Wes. That this switch, last minute switch to put the chargers on top, was the result of Adam Ranks filibustering in the newsroom?

Whoa. You know what? I can honestly tell you that that was not behind it at all. It was more. Little lobbying. I was burning that midnight oil. Burning the work in. Putting the work, doing work.

And that's what you got to do. Mark, you weren't here last week to find out that Dan worked very hard late into the night. I don't doubt that he did. I don't tell that he did. If you missed it, it was 15 minutes, right in the middle of our program. He spoke about it for about 15 years. It was past midnight, and I came to this kind of revelation that the Chargers deserve that spot. What were you saying, Wes?

Nothing good ever happens past midnight. I don't know. We'll see. Anyway, enough of that. By the way, people of Detroit, feel free to chime in on this. Yeah. You know, I feel like just put it in a shaker and just rolled out and got some results. Yeah, if I was lobbying, and I used to lobby for the Chargers to go higher, I would say the Bengals are the team that are really a little too low.

They're at number eight. But you can't put nine teams at one or two. So it's a tough exercise. I'd make my list. They'd be in the top four. Me too. I would think that was. Well, listen, you guys are free to create your own lists.

That's what I tell people all the time. Go ahead. We all have fun. Create your own little list. Send it out through Twitter. And then Mark, speaking of the Cleveland Browns, you wanted to touch on something, didn't you? Well, I do. We track Roto World every day, and they give you a lot of great camp updates

about players that, you know, behind the scenes are starting to bubble up and become prospects. This is Evan Silva's time of year. That is exactly right. And the buzz, the buzz in my take, I've been doing my monitoring. You probably think I've just been checked out. I read every day study. Midnight oil. Midnight oil stuff.

The buzz on second year Brown's tight end, Seth DeValve out of Princeton is building to a fever pitch. Wait a second. Is this an addition of pressure valve? It's pressure valve. That's what I'm calling the segment. We're calling this segment pressure about. Let's explore. There is the pressure valve.

Let's just go through some of these blurbs that have appeared on Evan Silva's roto world. June 10th, Brown's coach, Hugh Jackson, calls tight-end Seth Devalve an emerging player. June 23rd, the Akron Beacon Journal says it's not far-fetched to believe that second-year tight-end Seth Devalve could be the Brown's most improved player in 2017.

Hey now. July 12th, the plane dealer's Mary Kay Cabot says second-year tight-end seven. DeValve jumped out at Brown's OTAs and minicamp. July 20th, the Brown's official website expects second year tight end. Seth DeValve to have, in quotes, a significant role this season. July 21st, Patsy Kettles of patsy Kettlesfootball.net. Reports that Brown's tight end, Seth DeVal, saved a school bus full of children

by single-handedly lifting the vehicle off the side of a cliff in Boree, Ohio. Wanting no credit for his heroic act, DeValve fled the scene using nearly superhuman speed per kettles. July 23rd. Take note, Treelphreel Freeman. July 23rd, Evan Silva of Roto World notes that he received an anonymous phone call from a Langley Virginia area code warning him not to spill the beans on the true nature of Seth DeValves' mission on Earth.

July 24th, just a day ago, officials from the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio reports seeing a Seth DeValve-shaped object soaring in the skies over the Hall of Fame. July 25th, Evan Silva of Roto World receives a second. call from Langley. A man on the other end tells him it's time for the world to know the truth. Seth Devalve didn't attend Princeton. He was created at Princeton by secret scientists, scientists working closely with Cleveland's forward-thinking front office. Silver, it's up to you to connect the dots, Seacrest out. Wow. And that was the latest edition of pressure valve. Now, how do you expect me to put the Browns number one at the pain ranks when he got Devalve in the building?

Listen, that's a fair point. That is your fairest rebuttal to the pain rankings. You have literally Superman on your roster. You're in a good position, I think. I think so. You should probably make him the quarterback. Maybe anything can happen. He's an emerging player according to team sources.

You could put him at safety, then he'd be a safety valve. Pretty nice. Is there just a hint of skepticism on your end that Seth the valve will be the starting tight end and a game changer for, Not even in the least. If you're watching the video version of this show, you saw that he had two highlights last year, and we replayed them over and over.

Is he moving mountains under feet or whatever Hugh Jackson said about RG3 last year? I think this time Hugh knows that people were going to see with their own eyes. He doesn't need to keep the hot quotes coming. All right, it's time now to move on to the Training Camp Spotlight presented by New Era. And today's Training Camp Spotlight, we've done it every week. for the past three weeks. Now we're going to focus on the Dallas Cowboys.

And specifically how many roster spots are wide open, how many jobs I should say, and starting jobs. Good work, I should say, is out there for the team. And Greg, you are a good person to talk to on this because they sent you, NFL Network sent you to Oxnard to cover this thing. Weighing in at 166 pounds. he hails from Martha's Vineyard, he is. NFL Network's Greg Rosenthal.

So many untruths there. Do you weigh, 1606? Yeah, 166 is over it by about 30 pounds there. I'd be in trouble if I'm 166 on this frame. Give me a break. And I've never once lived in Martha's Vineyard. A husky 166 that would be for Greg, not husky. But Greg did, he covered the Cowboys scene yesterday,

and he was even on NFL Network. What a day for Greg. Mike Arafolo just tweeted, Rosenthal, that you asked him for permission today to wear shorts? Well, it wasn't so much permission. It was just the general customs. They usually don't put writers that look like me out live, you know, in the field. So I was just making sure shorts are acceptable.

Are you wearing shorts now, Greg, with two Gs? I am. I hope they don't pan down because there might be some stains from lunch, but yes, I'm wearing shorts. All right. It looks great. He's not an ink-stained wretch. He's a lunch-stained wretch. Greg Rosenthal, we say that, of course, with love and kindness, wearing shorts.

We can't show you because it's a family program here. And Mike, you don't want to see it either. As well. Yeah, this is what I'm talking about, Greg. This is exactly what I'm talking about. And I'm on Team Greg here. They send him out there, NFL Network. They put them on TV, but what happens?

They send them back to his little box when it comes down to it. They try to belittle you. I get brought. Thank you very much here with NFL.com's Greg Rosenthal. The Annabelle.com, the Annabelle.com, the Annabelle.com's Greg Wilson. They want to keep you in that box. I know. You feel like, okay, maybe I've finally done it.

My kids are watching at home I found out later. You know, they have it on this, I didn't even know, they had on this big screen. It's like a large, scary almost image. And you think, finally, a little respect. And then someone, and then someone like, And then someone like Garifolo just broadsides you. Oh, come on. They treated you like one of the guys.

Like, you're in the locker room and they're playing pranks on you. And I thought you really showed that you could think on the fly and improvise. Yeah. You did a nice job with it. And Wes, I'd love to. I was surprised. Take that standpoint that it was boys club banter. I don't know.

I just saw the look in Mike's eyes, the way Andrew just leaned into the whole thing. I enjoyed it. I'm surprised down that you would attempt. to stir the pot between Greg and other various in-building powers that's so against your nature. It added a little levity. I was glad. I was glad for it. And thanks to the Twitter user that let us know that, yes, Greg did wear shorts, as you can see.

Oh, yeah. Robert. He was a big fan of the show. I talked to him. Bobby P. Big time listener. We had a couple listeners out there. All right.

He's excited. Bobby Petalino. Hey, Bobby Petalino. All right. Let's talk football now. So Greg, I mean, do you need any more proof? that Greg was boots on the ground, or I should say, Black Adidas on the ground. Let's start with the Dallas cornerbacks.

There's a lot of open jobs here. Yeah, I think it's, I don't know if it slipped under the radar with all the off-field problems they've had because they've had two arrests. They had the suspension for David Irving. You have Ezekiel Elliott. But to me, the bigger issue, if you compare the Cowboys to the other teams that had buys last year, the Steelers, the Falcons, and the Patriots, the Cowboys have way more questions. They lost over 6,000 snaps.

from their secondary, from the last two years combined, 6,000 snaps from four key players. And at cornerback especially, you've got Orlando Scandrick, who they're excited is a little healthier this year. He's their number one cornerback. Number two by far is Nolan Carroll, a guy who really struggled in Philadelphia.

And for veterans, that's it. When I asked Jason Garrett about it after the press comments because he kind of gave a non-answer in the press conference, and he mentioned those two players, and then he paused for, about four seconds, and then he just was like, and who else? Who else is on this roster? He literally said it, and who else? And then he went on to Anthony Brown, and they have a couple of rookies.

And maybe those guys will step up. But if Nolan Carroll is by far your number two cornerback, that's trouble. My one, if there's one positive in Dallas, and there have been past seasons where we thought the Dallas defense was going to be a calamity, and they outplayed people's expectations. Rod Marinelli is one of the most underrated defensive coordinators in the league. His players love him, and he finds a way to make this stuff work sometimes. So that's your hope. I was going to say, when are we going to learn? We do this every August. We say that Cowboys just don't have the defense to compete. And then their whole competitiveness rests on

their offense and controlling the ball, and then they hide their defense. Yep, that's fair. On the flip side, there is now, you could say, listen, the Lucky Whitehead thing, it's just one of those silly summer stories that gets overblown. But you got the Zeke Elliott stuff. and you have, you know, a roster that's maybe not as settle as other people think, this idea that the Cowboys are going to waltz back to 12 wins, there are challenges here that they're going to have to figure things out. It's not all laid out like some other contenders out there right now. No, Marinelli was very positive about the group and saying, you know,

he loves competition and all that. And his system is really simplified. It's not as complex as some others and they really count on effort and all that. That said, when your best pass rushers are Tyrone Crawford and a rookie in Taco Charlton and, you know, DeMarcus Lawrence, who had won sack last year, there's just not a lot of juice there. I don't care how good a coach he is. Jalen Smith?

Jailen Smith, that linebacker could be a big factor. He's definitely moving around pretty well. The idea that they almost need him to somehow recover from drop foot and become an impact player potentially this year, a lot of things have to break right on that defense. Yeah, I think, yes, the offense has made up for it in two of the last three years, West, but those are like the greatest offense as possible, and you shouldn't need to count on an offense to be that good. And in the end, last year, their defense got them beat. I mean, that offense was ready to compete for a Super Bowl, and the defense couldn't do it against Greenland.

Yeah, I don't think they have a championship caliber defense, but this is not the worst defense they've had that we've doubted. I mean, Mark had 50 adjectives to describe their defense. Right. Which within weeks, I was completely, you know, proven to be a complete phony on that topic. That was the team two years ago. They were fine, yeah, they were fine. I think the corner, I think the secondary is worse than it's been. I mean, you lost Claiborne, you lost Barry Church, you lost guys who have been there.

What if Byron Jones develops into an absolute superstar like Landon Collins or something? Yeah. I mean, that could go a long way. And that was Training Camp Spotlight, presented by New Era. I don't know if Greg had something else. I wanted to give him a second to interrupt me, but he had nothing else. That's it. That's good.

But that was good info. Are they going to keep sending you out or what? I'm going to the other Los Angeles teams, the Rams and the Chargers. All right. Fun, fun, fun. All right. Let's do a little talk about New Era. New Era's NFL training collection has a great combination of innovative performance and style

with features like UV protection, moisture wicking, and cooling technology. There's no reason you shouldn't make the New Era NFL training collection a part of your daily attire every day that means available at retailers like lids nfl shot dot com and oh yes dicks sporting goods in your favorite team all right people wanted more hats got more hats i enjoyed your vana white impression there uh all right let's talk about it now like i said on thursday uh all or nothing came up i have my buddy Jason, who is a loyal and faithful listener to the show, he texted me about a week ago, I said, dude, I know it has a lot of bad juice around, a bad juju, but all or nothing is a

good season. You should watch it. Greg started saying the same thing. And then we said, hey, listeners, do you want us to talk about all or nothing? Inundated with tweets. People wanted it. Literally millions of tweets. I got four million tweets saying, talk about all or nothing. So let's talk about all or nothing, which focused, of course, on the Los Angeles Rams and it was a show that this was always, let me, my initial takeaways, that the show real like Greg teased that really gets hot in the back end and takes you to a place that if you watch football programming NFL films is the best in the business at it, we've never really seen a team disintegrating documented in this way, or at least I have.

So I found that fascinating. The biggest mistake they made and the reason why there was so much bad buzz, if they just would have done all or nothing on the Rams and went somewhere else for hard knocks, I think they would have been in a better situation. But the fact that they did double up, people were already like, wait, been there, done that. And then at top of it, the Rams were a laughing stock last season. So people just tuned out. But if you tune in, and we'll start with Greg, if you tuned in here,

and after you got past those initial episodes, the first couple episodes really did feel overly familiar based on hard knocks which documents trade hard knocks cutting room floor material for the most part and they start three and one early on you're right and they start three and one and you know it's not going anywhere so you don't really understand the point but once you get to episode five and then especially six which i feel like is the linchpin a whole series and then seven and eight the show really takes flight gregg your thoughts i i think seeing a team just what's going on when a season is falling apart and the desperation of the coaches and the depression of the players and how much it meant to them.

It just humanized a team that we had just been mocking openly at that point. And you do realize, and of course there's editing and everything going involved to it, how much the players cared, how much it hurt them. And also how ridiculous some of the situations are where it's Tuesday before they play the Patriots and you've got one of their coaches just, you know, Greg William just railing against them. Do you really love football? All this stuff. It's Tuesday morning.

It's five days away from the game. And that team's going to get drilled no matter what you say. So there's just all these strange moments. But to me, it really came together. Game, what was it, 14 in their season when they got waxed by the Falcons, the game that got Jeff Fisher fired. and I'm sorry I want to talk about the second to last game of the season

after John Fossel is the coach and they lose to the 49ers they have a 21 to 7 lead with about 6 7 with about 6 minutes left and in any other documentary or any other NFL things there's some sort of lesson there that like okay they didn't give up

John Foss they're at least trying like there's a great moment but no that's not what sports are like Sports are just sometimes a kick in the nuts. They blow the lead. There's no lesson to be learned. The lesson is you guys are terrible, and no matter how much you try, sometimes sports is just going to get away from you.

Sorry. Like, that was the lesson. It was about as dark as I've ever seen a sports show. I watched the first two a couple weeks ago, and I, like a lot of people, said, I've got better things to do right now. But so last night, because we knew we were going to talk on this, I was texting you guys as I was binge watching, like, as many episodes as I could. And I kept saying, every time Jeff Fisher gets on screen,

this production falls apart for me because I already had issues with Jeff Fisher. I am growing to dislike him more and more. He seems to me, he's walking around with Britney Spears' children at some point. All this stuff happening where this guy just feels to me like a creation, a version of Jeff Fisher. I don't really feel a lot of genuine energy coming from. When John Fossil took over,

The whole show absolutely took off for me. I think what I learned watching John Fossel, who was promoted from a special teams coach where he admitted he was down in the basement in a bunker, and they show him down there as a special team host, the passion that he had. I thought he was a truly plugged-in coach that loved working with players and developing them.

Then he jumps into these massive shoes, and you can find out how rough that job would be when you suddenly are going to be the head coach to have to go and coach your first game ever. And the trial in what's going on mentally He clearly was not even aware of what the experience would be like. It was a short week. Very short week.

They fired Fisher on a Monday after a blowout, I think, to the Pats. They had the Seahawks on the road on a short week, and that's what he gets tossed into. And there's a great moment with Demoff, who I believe is the executive vice president of operations. And it's a shot from a distance. And they show him basically, Demo, trying to tell Fossil, this is going to be okay. You can do this. Just be yourself. going to help you out and Fassel you could see it in his face and then they go to Seattle and they

get predictably waxed and after the game I was really taken by how he seemed he wasn't happy Fassel but there was almost a look of relief on his face just I survived that game survival I'm a head coach I was a head coach for a game in this the strangest week of my life and I survived that and Greg you mentioned the fossil clip uh after the Christmas Eve lost to the 49ers the nineers the Niners of all teams scored 15 points on them in their building in the last five minutes. Here is the video, actually, of Fossil trying to figure out what to say. Well, first time for me, so I probably don't have a lot of pearls of wisdom for you, but, you know, I had a hell of a time.

It was a hell of an experience. I do know that we got two weeks left, and after that, obviously, a lot of things are going to change. So I'm proud of you out there. We're going to keep fighting. We're going to go back to work. We're going to stay together. We're going to grind until the finish because that's just what we do. All right.

All good. The highlights for me, and Mark touched on this, John Fossil's genuine energy, which stood in contrast to some of the other main characters in the show. Kevin Demoff's humanity and tough moments, Todd Gurley's competitive fire, Sean McVeigh's football mind in the final episode, which was in stark contrast to the previous head coach's football mind, in my opinion. And to me, the issues I had with this show were the head coach, offensive coordinator, and defensive coordinator to start the program.

And you look at a piece of art and you say, do I believe it? Or you watch a movie. Are you willing to put in willing suspension of disbelief? You go to see a comedian. Do you buy in to what that comedian is saying? I didn't buy in to anything Greg Williams, Rob Boris, or Jeff Fisher was saying. Maybe their players didn't either. I think that was part of the problem.

They don't come off. If you read books about football players, what do they want in a coaching staff? Foremost, are you going to give us a competitive edge by being smarter and more innovative than the opposing coaching staff? And I didn't get the sense that the Rams staff was that. Totally with you. Like, I found the offensive side of the ball especially. It was head scratching to watch them try to figure out how to process what was happening with their offense. Although Gurley, you know, when Fisher lost the job, and this is true of a lot of the players,

Gurley cried, and they seemed very upset. So it did seem to me like a human connection with Fisher, and yet I don't know if they ended up respecting him enough as a true football coach to really do it. Well, one doesn't have to negate the other, right? You can still like a guy as a human and not believe that he's going to outsmart Bill Belich. And there's a sense of guilt because you've let, you've caused jobs. As the players, and I think there were some great scenes where the players were calling each other out saying, we cost this man his job.

I mean, that was a real moment. When Gurley goes off at halftime of the Falcons game, it's like 21 to 3, and he's saying horse bleep, you know, what we put out there and everything, that comes right after Rob Boris kind of loses his mind and just saying like, that's not who we are. Like, now we're really going to find out who we're made of.

And I'm thinking the players have to be thinking this, and I'm thinking this, no, it's week 14. The wheels will come on. You are, you have lost six or seven straight games. you are getting drilled. You have found out what you're made of. I mean, Fossil said that after they lost the second election. I got the vibe that Jeff Fisher seemed like a lovable uncle type guy to them,

a guy that they knew was a football life that had done things in this league, and now he was coaching them, and they didn't really believe in the system, and they knew they stunk, but they still liked him personally. And let's throw to another clip here, which is Johnny Hecker, who's maybe one of the only guys to give a damn about last season, who's one of the best punters in the league and considers himself to be a team leader, even though he's a punter.

He gets up after Fisher left the room and the team's in shock and delivers this tearful address. Coach Fish gave us all a chance, man. We didn't do with it. They're giving them a new chance to start something new and, uh,

and church. We stand back and he gave us all a shot. We had nothing with it. moved. It was a distraction. He handled it like a man. He gave us every opportunity we needed to succeed when we didn't hold each other accountable. We cannot sell ourselves short and moving forward, guys. As leaders, I mean, I'd lay you guys down, man. I haven't been in there. I haven't done my best. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to Coach Fish. He's not going to hear it, but we all got to wear it.

know that that man's gone because of us. And going back to McVeigh, did anybody else get like a, and I know you can get sucked into how someone's presented in a documentary, anybody else gets like a young John Gruden vibe off the guy? Well, they've been saying that about him from his first presser. I think he's literally trying to. I don't know if he's trying to, but that's sort of. See, I hadn't even heard that.

I missed all that. He's tied deep to the Grudens, and there's certainly, it seems like he's pulled some, not mannerisms, but just sort of energy and presentation style. Definitely got the Gruden energy and the confidence in the way he, how easily he was interacting with everyone. With Goff, like, he's like, that stuff you didn't, like, immediately. It was cool to see.

Like, you mentioned, you know, what we saw in terms of the post-firing. That was what was really interesting. I mean, you saw these conversations like Demoff and Fossil or the post-firing meeting where a bunch of different people take turns talking or McVeigh meeting Goff for the first time and kind of selling himself to Goff. Like, hey, you did some rare stuff in that New Orleans game. You know, like, we've never seen stuff like that. And I don't know what Sean McVeigh's character is.

I don't know, like, when they go through a losing streak or tough times happen, how will he handle adversity? 31. But you could tell in that final episode, if I'm a Rams fan, I'm excited because he is a smart, smart guy. Yeah. And you said Jared Goff. I think, listen, we know he had a lot of issues last year, but this show also did a nice job showing the impossible situation he was put into last year.

I know he struggled on the field, but the fact that he was in that coaching staff that was in over its head, and then right when maybe he would start to get his sea legs as a starter, they get rid of the coach, and he's left with a special teams coordinator and a team that's completely adrift. I mean, if anybody deserves a fresh start with a new young coach that knows offense, it's this kid. So it kind of gave me personally almost hitting the reset button,

and I'm looking forward to see what he looks like this season. And you really felt sympathy for someone like him and also someone like Rob Boris, who we're saying has been in over his head. And it's like this is a guy who's worked his ass off his entire life, got an opportunity that he essentially earned and maybe he wasn't ready for that job. And then he just has to deal with it.

And then you see him in Buffalo at 6 in the morning showing up. He's the new tight ends coach there. And he's talking about his family. And he literally has, they stayed in St. Louis after they moved to L.A. He literally has not been with his family for 16 months. and he's talking about, well, at least we have that coming up. They're finally going to move here in June. The Buffalo from L.A. potentially, if things went better, they're moving to Buffalo.

You feel for him as a human where we've made fun of him. And they're just to us, a lot of times because we don't have in-depth contact with them, they're just names on pages, offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, assistant. But what's going on? Where this show takes off for me, and same with Hard Knocks, is when you get to learn who these people are, their strengths, their weaknesses, and how actually just how human the whole thing is. When this team is utterly collapsing,

you're thinking these are high-ranking experts handling this behind the scenes. But it's quite the opposite. They're panicking, and they don't know if their players are going to develop at all, if they're going to have jobs two months from now. You've got kids in school. You probably have a wife panicking at home if you're a coach.

I mean, it's a tough deal. So there you go. That's all-nothing talk. Oh, wait. I do want to point out one thing, which if you watch the show, I feel like listeners will remember this moment, which I count as the most haunting moment in the history of NFL films.

Haunting. And I don't know if we have a screenshot or not, but it's haunted me. It's stuck in my mind. At one point, three days after Jeff Fisher is fired, they are getting on the team bus to go to the airport, to go to Seattle, and with no warning from NFL films, no nothing,

they are leaving. And right at the part of the grounds where they're leaving, Jeff Fisher is holding a dog and his wife is there. It's not his wife because we see his wife later in the... Oh, that's a good point. I think that's a woman like a mom that was shopping for groceries at the nearby boss. It's like an unnamed shadowy female. There's a cop, a security cop near them for some reason too.

And they wave goodbye to the team bus. And there's no explanation. I thought, have I, am I seen things? Why is Jeff Fisher there? Why is he allowed on the grounds? I mean, or choosing to go there. There's probably a very logical explanation, like he was going to clean up his office or something, but something was very sad and eerie about it.

It reminded me you said ghosts of like the ghost that people said they saw at the back of three men. Three men in a baby. Was that Jeff Fisher even there? Was it like the players wishing that he was there and then he, I don't know. I have the theory that every coach that gets fired becomes a ghost on that team's campus. And we just happen to see the specter. and it's kind of like some type of weird thing where there was some type of The Browns have a lot of ghosts.

You got Mike Patton walking around. You got, you know, just like a massive humanity in Brea. But, yeah, we did get to see Greg Williams. The last episode, they did a nice job of showing where everyone ended up, like the offense coordinator in Buffalo. And Greg Williams right back. And now in all Browns, you're screaming and mother-effing all the players. Yeah. Like Bud Kilmer.

What an unlikable guy. I mean, how is this guy keep? getting the top defensive jobs. Could you play a sport for Greg Williams? I could not. I would not respond well to somebody treating human beings that way. Also, what about, you know, the Browns, they had to see the tape of that Saints game, too.

That's not like Greg Williams is unassailable as a defensive mind. It's not as if the Browns also had their absolute pick of any sort of person they wanted to come in and coach their defense. I mean, you've got slim pickings and they go Greg Williams. All right. So there you go. And Hard Knocks, a reminder, we will talk Hard Knocks in a couple of weeks, the season, a very highly anticipated season with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

And End around, we'll do the write-ups and we'll talk about it on the show. Before we go, this past weekend was the NFL Media Family and Friends Day. How about that? Is that the first annual? Yes, it was a new initiative by leadership up above. And it was a very nice day. We got Mark, you and your family are there. Greg, we lost you, but you.

were there with the wife. Yeah, at one point, Walker, my son, it was very hot that day, and he just started laying down on the pavement as, as Ellis was jumping in the bouncy castle. And we was like, all right, we got to go. He's literally playing down on the hot pavement. Eventually, like Mark and myself and Emily and Simone, we wanted to take the kids and show him where we sit, you know, that security guy. I, you know, that I declared vengeance against that guy years ago over, I declare vengeance,

over him and his parking rules which are unfair and I should be able to park in a reserve spot and I will one day and when I do and you know who you are I will laugh in your face anyway we try to take our kids to show our desk and there he is again. Not allowed in. Mr. Security man saying no,

nobody without a badge can come in. I was like, my son's three. Age old tradition to go visit your batter bars go in because you had a badge that the kids couldn't. No kids or family allowed. So, Mark and I. Small town sheriff.

We got Wiley. And then, Mark, you made a bit of a rookie mistake. You then asked if we were allowed to go to a different area, which he promptly said no. Right. We waited until he, whenever an authority figure is being a, what you need to do is look for ways to undermine him and never, never communicate with him. You wait until he turns us back and you go. I immediately got a shutdown in another area of the premises. So what we did, we waited until he turned around and we went and we did a,

tour of the studio and everything. That was fun. And then we said, hey, I know Mr. security man is not going to like it, but let's go to the podcast studio. And now, and this is yet another reason to check out our video program. We got Luke and Colton, Mark's boys, and Jack and Harrison, my boys took over the chairs here in the ATN podcast studio. And you could check it out right now if you're watching video. And I thought that was quite a fun thing. It was great. It's also on my Facebook page. Feel free to No, no, you're not getting added on my Facebook page. Who's going to win this week?

The Jets or Browns? Tets. Oh, great. That's smart son. That's my other son. You guys are probably giving good announcements. Here we are in the NFL podcast studio. Say hi, everybody.

Waza! Who's your favorite team? Browns. Nice. Good boy. Harrison, who's your favorite team? Brons, are you kidding me? Jack, who's your favorite team?

favorite team? Player. Players? Okay. My son's back to the big fantasy football by the end of the NFL podcast.

Unfair advantage. Cester's got your boys by a few years. All right. All right. That's good. Yeah, my son, his favorite team is player.

It shows that maybe he's a fantasy football fan. Maybe he doesn't value teams. And I personally, If he doesn't want to be a Jets fan and Harry does want to be a Jets fan, I am not going to stand in the way because I know. Well, I mean, if you aren't able to watch the video, they are in Jets clothing.

So there is some influence being wielded. No, I'm totally lying. If they want me to fully love them, they'll be Jets fans. But that was a great. That was a great little event. And Wes, in two years, you could bring your young son as well into the proceedings. Maybe twins. You never know.

You know something I don't know. The human body is an interesting thing. Pump out twins and away you go. We all got two boys. Twins do run in my family. They do. A brother are twins. You know, I have a daughter.

Oh, shoot. I thought we all had boys. Everyone I know has all boys except for you, which is a strange thing. Having a daughter is a great thing. I recommend it highly. Yeah, that's what they say. There's no pure love I was told than a daughter for her father. That won't be happening in the Sessler family.

Two will be fine. Thank you. Same here. Same here. All right. That's it for today's edition of the Around the NFL podcast presented by new era. We will be back on Thursday, and that will be Friday. What are we doing Thursday or Friday? We'll be back later

this week. Thursday, Thursday, most likely. And then after that show, we are back three times a week until we all die. So, very exciting. And it's time to go now. It's time to go. Predicting a winter death. I like that. Thanks to everyone behind the glass. Check it out again, NFL.com slash ATN video. Stan Hans is signing up for the mailman, the boss, the sizzler, and woke behind the glass. I'll say, go then.