NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - ARIZONA CARDINALS - WHEEL OF TEAMS

Episode Date: May 20, 2020

A bunker filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Chris Wesseling, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal bring you all of the latest news in the NFL including the latest update with the Rooney Rule, Taysom Hills role with the Saints, and Fitzmagic helping Tua learn the ropes. As chosen by the wheel, the hereos deep dive into the Arizona Cardinals and chat with Darren Urban from azcardinals.com to talk about the Hopkins trade and what Vance Joseph has in mind with his new acquisitions.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Around the NFL podcast. Need a soft repeat. Damn straight. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast.

My name is Dan Hansis. Coming to you from City Filled with Heroes in Bunkers, Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling. Greg Rosenthal, what is up boys? Hey, Dan. What would a soft reboot mean? Marks us? Well, I mean, personally, it would be, I'm cleaning up my act from an aesthetic perspective, buying some new clothes.

I've been wearing the same shirt, you know, same two or three shirts every day on repeat, often not putting them into the wash, just kind of cleaning up some personal habits for me. I think it could be like you bring the show back next week, except it's hosted by like M.J. Acosta, Adidi, Colleen, and Lindsay Rhodes. That's a soft reboot? That's a full reboot. That's pretty hard reboot. Okay.

I guess I didn't understand. Could happen. They hold the intellectual property of the program. They can do it as they please. So never get too comfortable is what I would say. you know but this thing stand right now right things seem okay we seem to be delivering on what they need and hopefully we'll continue to do that and stay employed during this really unpredictable time in human history but you never know there was a TV show called around the

NFL and then they just one day they like they changed the name they changed the vibe they change the host, but it was sort of still the same show. And now here we are like five years later. We're back. Well, it concerns me that Greg is planted a very probably, if anyone is listening to this, a person in power, a very appealing scenario and idea into their head. Sweep these four guys out and, you know, replace them with more marketable individuals. Well, the great thing in life is we do have some control over our own destinies. I mean, the dolphins didn't want anything to do with Ryan Tannenhill after five years. And now look at him, get paid with the Titans. I used to think that I had control over my destiny and then I got engaged and then married

and then had kids. Now, I don't know if I have control of it anymore. But you handed it away. I think about sometimes. You gave it away. You had it. You gave it away. Give it a modic.

Yeah, a little bit. I feel like the control is a mirage. You just got to give the control over to the world. Let it do what it will with you. Give it to God is what Greg's saying. Save it for the nilely. I mean, sometimes the pandemic is going to. I come, you don't have control over.

I'm saying you're only going to have so much control, you know. All right. We have control of what we'll talk about on today's show, and that is something to be happy about. And the Arizona Cardinals will be a topic because we spun the wheel and it landed on the football club out of Glendale. So we're going to have the great Darren Urban on. He's been a longtime beat reporter for the Cardinals, and we're going to discuss everything around that team as it enters the 20. 2020 season, a time of optimism for the Cardinals and their fan base. But before that, let's hit a little bit of news, Ricky.

First of all, Peterson caught the ball, which is rare because he doesn't catch a lot of passes, but then he stayed in bounds, got 13 yards. How about that? He broke the tackle of Cam Chancellor, by the way, shook him off. Like a little winter snow on a sunlit, moonlit, deeping. What? Well, that was weird right there, wasn't it? Do you think?

Mark, I remember it like it was yesterday. Ron Wolfley, the longtime color guy for Cardinals football. It was a Thursday night game. You and I were assigned. This is about, I'd say, two or three seasons ago. We were assigned with covering the wrap-up of the game. We used to have to connect and meet in the actual office at NFL media, which is a place we used to go to to work.

And we both heard it separately on our radios while traveling to meet each other at a tavern. Yeah. And it's like we had talked previously, how do we want to open this? What kind of clips do we want to use? How do we want to throw it all away the minute we heard it? And we already, this podcast were we were Ron Wolfley fans to begin with. I don't know what was happening in the bloodstream that evening to him, although that seems typical. But it came out very well and just perfect.

That was beautiful. All right. more cardinal stock coming up in a bit but let's start with the news yes the uh runy rule is getting an overhaul it's getting a makeover and it's overdue obviously as the league struggles to add minority coaches add minority management figures so they're they're beefing up the runy rule uh and here's what is new uh of course NFL network Jim Chatter reported last week that the owners were considering a proposal that would have improved team's third round draft picks by six to ten slots if they hired a minority candidate for a

vacant GM or head coach opening. That was tabled. So that is not something that's happening this season. We'll see if that's something that happens down the line. But for now, that is not part of the updated Rooney Rule. But one big standout here is that teams will now be required to interview at least two candidates from outside their organization for any vacant head coaching job and at least one minority candidate from outside their organization for any vacant,

offensive, defensive, or special teams coordinator job. The NFL has also waived the setup where teams could deny assistant coaches and executives the opportunity to interview for jobs with other organizations. This was approved on Tuesday at the owner's meetings, the virtual owners meeting. So no longer will you hear things in the news, and it happens every year in January, that so-and-so was denied the opportunity to interview for a coordinator position by his team that wants to keep him in the building. And that is also designed, Greg, as a way to give these coaches a better chance to get a higher-level jobs, specifically the minority coaches. Yeah, it's funny that, and it's understandable, we did it too, gave so much attention last week to Jim Trotter's report, which was interesting.

and out of the box and it's been tabled and we'll see if it comes back in any times when the more substantive proposals were on the table then too and they passed and the fact that a two coach you know you have to interview two minority candidates is big but to me the bigger you know update is that you have to satisfy the Rooney Rule with all of these lower level positions not just coordinator which is big and it's different, but throughout the front office. So senior, whether it's minorities and or female applicants in terms of football operations, like up and down the entire organization. And to me, that is meaningful change. And that maybe gets to what we talked about of having people in the

pipeline. Now, that's not all coaches, but it's having more decision makers, certainly in there in positions of power. And that's a, it's a significant change. And it sounded like it didn't have much, much pushback. Yeah, I mean, the chain of command is probably where some of the gaps are happening because you don't have enough minority coaches in these roles that lead to head coaching interviews and certainly in the front office. I mean, think about the Ravens discovering or any team, an extra person that would fit the bill there and play an Eric DeCosta role for years

where you're the heir apparent. There just aren't a lot of those scenarios being filled right now the way that, you know, they should fairly be if you have a wider birth and a wider look at candidates. It starts at the top. Who hires GMs? Owners do. Who hires coaches, GMs with the approval of owners. And until you get more minority owners, you're going to have to keep making rules like this. And, you know, credit to them for understanding they need to make more progressive rules. The rule about the assistance can't be blocked for taking a coordinator job really isn't necessarily part of the Rooney rule. And I immediately just started thinking of other scenarios in recent years that that could have impacted.

You know, Matt LaFleur's brother would be with him, Mike LaFleur, in Green Bay right now. He wouldn't have been, you know, with the 49ers. Kyle Shanahan has blocked a lot of his coaches over the years. And no one's really found fault with him because it's been part of the rules. And as part of this, now every team has to, like, define exactly what the coordinators are doing in each. And if there's any disputes, it goes right to the commissioner. And, like, that's a pretty big deal. And it allows a lot more flexibility of assistance just kind of jump at jobs if they like the opportunity better somewhere else.

In other news, the New Orleans Saints quarterback room continues to be a area of interest. Drew Breeze is there. He resigned with the team this offseason could be his last year. Tasem Hill is there. He's been exciting. And how could we forget, he was the best player on the field in that playoff game in January? January. And of course, James Winston is in the building now signing that one-year deal. Jay Glazer of the Athletic. He wrote a little bit about the Taysom Hill situation in his

mailbag, a recent mailbag, which is fine. I think Glazer does. It's fine. This is what he said. No smokescreen. He's the guy referring to Taysam Hill as the future QB of the Saints. Sean Payton loves him, but it's not just him. The whole team loves him. Glazer also called Hill, a, quote, bigger Lamar Jackson. 30 years old, Tatham Hill, 13 career passes, a bigger Lamar Jackson. Take it away, guys. Well, I think number one, Sean Payton, I mean, he mentioned in his mailbag, which it was a pretty great read.

I'm just going to throw that out their damn time. Oh, shots fire. Multiple mailbags can be fun to read. I mean, I found it informative, you know, newsbreaking in a sense. But he said that Sean Payton wanted basically to one we. Well, where did we first hear about OBJ to the Browns? I mean, there's some, I'm not taking anything away from another mailbag, and that was not my point here.

It was that he had a great nugget that he thought that Sean Payton's wishes were to unleash Taysom Hill without anyone seen him at all. I mean, we already all talk about Taysam Hill because we've seen it. And they wanted to use them because it's like get him on the field, but his wishes were to just basically drop a bomb at the league on the league at some point and say, look what we've been hiding this whole time. they're such a disconnect how quickly we forget the how quickly we forget the undercooked COVID-19 news bomb from the Glazer mailbag or whatever it was whatever mark

there's second up with Jay Glazer between the Saints and football Twitter the Saints have been telling us this for a couple of years now and Glazer had the exact same report in January that Tayson Hill is the quarterback of the future he's going to be the franchise quarterback in the future Nick Underhill, Saints beatwriter, I've said on this podcast before, has said, as strong as their comments are publicly on Taysam Hill, the Saints and their players and their management think even more highly of him behind the scenes in private when they talk about him. I don't understand the refusal to accept that this guy is the future in New Orleans. I'm ready to believe it. I have

kind of changed my thought that the Saints believe in him based on this contract. And it's funny, I did this, we did this whole podcast about, you know, when James Winston signed. And within a day, everything I said was, couldn't have been more wrong because I thought the Saints said a lot with that contract. I mean, Thasem Hills getting $16 million cap figure next year. That says a lot. Jay Glazer and Sean Payton couldn't be closer. I mean, there was a time when it was basically Sean Payton and Jay Glazer versus the world.

Sean Peyton hated every single member, I think, of human civilization that did not live in New Orleans other than Jay Glazer. It was basically the two of them. So if he's, if he's saying it, like, I don't know, I buy it and it'll be fascinating to watch. And I will come down as I'll believe it when I see it. That's all. I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

But at some point, the man will, I guess, be the number one quarterback of the Saints. Right now, ostensibly, he's the number three quarter. I mean, something about Tassum Hill seems to get under your skin a little bit, Dan. Well, that's 99% of football player. He's just a punching bag. He's just there to make jokes for. He's not actually a football player. Honestly, it is, it's two sides of this.

And I guess it's people that lean a little too heavily on his inexperience. And then there's people like, I don't know, what West just said as an example, that you're not allowed to question whether this guy will ever be the real choice. Because the Saints, you could look at these moves and also see it the other way, that if you really want him to be the quarterback of the future, future, maybe make him the backup, backup quarterback. James Blinken on the building. That's not how they want to use him on the building. Then he's not truly the quarterback of the future. Then he's the catch.

Winston is there to just so they can use Taseom still on the field. Right. I just want to see him throw. Because his throw, I just want to see him throw more. You know, that's it. It's like, you know, he's, he just hasn't thrown the ball in an NFL game almost at all. And he's turning 31. So outside of not even Kurt Warner wouldn't even qualify.

You know, they're just, we don't have a lot of examples like that where someone who has not thrown the ball in the NFL until they're 31 suddenly becomes the guy. But I do believe by their actions, the Saints are telling us that is the plan. But let's say that Drew Breaz retires his thumb ligament in week two, and he's out for six weeks. Who's the quarterback? You would think it's Tayson Hill. I would want it to be Tasum Hill.

I've said all along. It's crazy not to be at that point. That's what I want to know. I want to know, like, because if you really think this guy is the future quarterback of the franchise, I don't, if we're getting another Teddy Bridgewater type situation, only it's James Winston.

It's just to me a sign that this is not the guy they truly believe in as a quarterback. But Dan, do you acknowledge that he's used differently than QB2 on any other roster right now, that he's a part of special teams. He's used all over the field. He was elected. I know that. But then so they don't want.

But if you're a special as he's supposed to be, but if you're the second. You're going to want him with a ball in his hands as much as possible. It's a fair point. If Breeze went down, I would be very, very annoyed and I'd find it mysterious if they don't want to see what Tayson Hill can bring now versus a year from now.

All right. Well, we're going to see a play out. Or we won't. Hopefully it'll be football in September. Or we won't because Drew Breez, you know, plays well and, and they're a top five team.

team again and and Taysam Hill just does his thing in the Taysom Hill roll. In other news, Ryan Fitzpatrick was a lot of fun last year with the Dolphins, as we all know. He stepped into that role as a veteran of a team that was supposed to be absolutely dreadful and really was early in the season. And then with his combination of a, you know, gunslinger mentality and moxie and leadership attributes, made the Dolphins watchable and they won games and they even shocked the Patriots in Foxborough in week 17 changing the course perhaps of the NFL season. Well, he's back. He's still with the team, but so is now Tua Tunga Viola.

They got it? Tungovallala. And Fitzpatrick was on Eric Woods podcast. Wes, Eric Woods has a connection to you. Eric Wood went to elder high school, my high school, same high school as Kyle Rudolph. and several long snappers. Eric Wood has a podcast. Fitz was on it.

Here is what Fitz had to say about his role with Tua going forward. The other thing in bringing a new guy in that I always try to impress right away on these guys is like, I am here. Again, zero ego. Like, I have so much knowledge. I've made so many mistakes in this league in terms of dumb decisions and throws. And I've learned how to prepare. I've learned so much about. out offenses and defenses and the way that guys operate, ask questions. Like, I'm an open book.

Ask me whatever you want. I'm really excited. I'm excited that they drafted him. Like, I'm excited because I, in Washington played Alabama. Like, he looks like he's a pretty dynamic talent. Just in meeting him a few times. Like, he seems like an unbelievable kid. Great head on his shoulders, like, says the right things, wants to do the right things. So, like, for me, I'm his biggest cheerleader right now because Patrick went on to say that he the reason he's still playing football is because he wants to be on the field and you understand that so the competitor competitor in fits is still there but he gets it as you imagine the harvard man would west that he is not the future to it is and honestly you couldn't have a better guy in the building than ryan's fitzpatrick right

i love that interview because to me it seemed pulled from 50 years ago a time before like money was the determining factor and everything in sports. This is about team, and it's about, he emphasized several times in that interview. I have all of this knowledge I've acquired over the years. I mean, we know he's a Harvard guy. He's smart. And his point about making bad decisions, that's how wisdom is gained by making mistakes and learning from them.

Who's made more mistakes than Ryan Fitzpatrick at quarterback over the last couple of decades? He has all this wisdom. He doesn't want it to go to waste. And to me, that's what team sports are all about. when I hear excuses for selfish quarterbacks, hey, go play a sport where you don't have to be on a team. I love fits. It also makes me think even more, not that I needed to,

of my man Mark Bulger. One of the more underrated quarterbacks, I would say, of the last 10 years. Because Fitzpatrick came into those Mark Bulger teams, and he said the veterans there really did everything they could. And I remember Fitzpatrick with Mike Martz lighting up the fantasy airwaves as a as a rookie and uh i don't know um he of course every quarterback should be like this but they aren't and um it makes me want to have fitzpatrick on our team but i mean on our tv show

potentially but now i'm wondering like he was on neal's pod he was just on this pod is he overexposed or do it would we still want he has a luxury of approaching this as a bridge quarterback he's never been seen as the face of the franchise so i don't expect him to approach this situation in the same way as a Brett Farver and Aaron Rogers. I thought it was interesting to call last year his, the best year of his career because of the obstacles that he faced. And I mean, yeah, you look at the end. I mean, I'm a gardener.

I'm a Mnchuvian, but I would say that the most exciting quarterback in Florida in the NFL last year was Ryan Fitzpatrick. I mean, he was about. I thought he was, like, no sarcasm. I thought he was the best quarterback in the AFC East. I thought he was like a little bit better than Brady and better than Donald and Alan. In a much tougher situation. Yes.

He's good. He's always been good and always been fun. I'd love to have Ryan Fitzpatrick on the show. Let's do it. You have a connection with him, Dan. You and him. Ricky. A photo together.

We did take a photo together at a Madden Super Bowl party coming off his his lone good season with the Jets after the 2015 season. In other news, the XFL. Remember that? Remember when there was not only... the NFL, but there was another league that wanted to be a competition to the NFL, and then COVID-19 showed up and whacked the XFL out of existence, filed for bankruptcy. Vince McMahon had appeared to cut ties with the company that had attempted a launch back

in the early 2000s and failed and then was knocked down by coronavirus. Well, maybe Vince isn't ready to give up yet. The Athletic reports that XFL creditors, quote, seemed to believe that Vince McMahon himself, the man who started the league, is positioning to buy the league out of bankruptcy. Separately, XFL president, Jeffrey Pollock, has contacted stadiums in Seattle and Los Angeles

and St. Louis, excuse me, about reinstating the league's lease agreements. And this is also kind of news connected to the XFL right now. Andrew Luck's father, whose name is... Oliver Luck is in the middle of a contentious showdown, legal showdown with Vince McMahon. He was the commissioner of the XFL who was fired, and there is a lot of wrangling money and ugly insults and accusations going back and forth there. So the XFL is an explosive situation, as you kind of expected it always to be.

be, whether that was on the field or off. I mean, this situation is insane. It's like, I don't understand the bankruptcy laws to really get into the ethics of bankrupting your company and then re-buying it back when it doesn't seem right. It doesn't seem right while everyone's waiting to get paid by this guy. That's what I'd say. Also, it doesn't seem smart. What are you going to restart this league in the middle of a pandemic when you can't have crowds?

Yeah. I mean, Vince McMahon. I feel like he's been doing high-level, crazy, bizarre business moves for as long as Erica's boy, Donald Trump. I mean, you've got to go back to the 80s with some of his antics. What? Yeah. I know, I just thought I had to put that on someone, so. What the?

It was got to be anyone. Yeah, that makes sense. I just dropped it on you. It could have been. Oh, please. All right, bye. I mean, if we're having a two sides in the Oliver Luck, Vince McMahon battle, I'm with Team Luck. Yeah, it seems like the nicer person.

Yeah, seems like a nice fellow that Oliver has created some fine athletes in his life. You're supposed to be paid $23 million. Not a lot of Oliver's around right now, by the way. Oliver is a fading name. Doesn't that feel like a big starting salary for the XFL commissioner? You just start it? It's absurd. It's absurd.

And like Vince has now failed with this twice. And I understand McMahon supporters or believers will say, well, he got banged here by an unprecedented pandemic, which is fair. But, dude, I mean, how much money, how much of your net worth in your life are you willing to pour into this idea to the point where you might be buying it out of bankruptcy if that's even allowed? I mean, the whole thing is, is kind of absurd. Well, you're allowed to be a man supporter and still believe that the XFL will never be

a successful lead. You don't have to back everything the man does. That's true. That's true. finally in the news Greg wants to talk about Patrick Chung No I said we can skip that

We have breaking news That is skipping We have breaking news Rap sheet is reporting That Cowboys pass rusher Alden Smith has been reinstated To the NFL That's big news

They're counting on him I think that's significant Like I'm seeing some some folks predicting them to go to the Super Bowl and they got the offense to do it, but they need either Alden Smith or Randy Gregory, who's still suspended

to show up and make an impact, which is a little risky to count on that, but they just don't have many other options as a pass rusher. That's an annual thing for the Cowboys. They're always counting on a pass rusher to not be suspended. It's often Randy Gregory.

But Mike McCarthy, you know, maybe during his year in the wilderness, said he formed a very strong relationship with Alden Smith. So there's some buy-in there with that player, which I think is equally risky. I mean, I can't think of anyone more risky outside of maybe Josh Gordon.

Patrick Chung has signed a two-year extension with the Patriots. He receives $3 million signing bonus as part of the deal. The Pats gain close to a million in cap space. But that's just Greg attempting to bury the lead something that he thought he got away with it because we forgot to do it on Monday, but the real transaction to talk about is right here.

And now another additional. Sipping on Vino, checking on Gino. I mean, I love talking Gino. I don't like this warmed over bit, you know. It's like we had this. This bit has always made Greg uncomfortable because he thinks. it's a personal shot at him, but it's a way to get your favorite player in the podcast on a semi-regular basis.

It's not, I don't think it's a shot at me. I think it's a shot at Gino. Plus, it's, it's succeeding one of my favorite segments of all time. It's like, it's like a sequel that can't live up to, what was the other one called? No, I'm forgetting it. Um, who is our guy? Who is our guy? Mobo.

I'm dying here. Catch it up with Moritzpouringer. You know what, Gino Smith's a winner. We already talked about it on the show. When you want a winner, you bring Gino Smith back. Rex Ryan out here, honking about it that way. Rex Ryan honking about Gino Smith. Gino Smith's entering his eight seasons.

That's as long as Rex Ryan lasted as a head coach. So one more year here, and Gino can outlast his arch nemesis. Great. You can try as hard as you want, but you cannot whitewash the fact that Gino Smith ran down the sideline and rooted against his own starting quarterback when he was on the same team. I mean, he was a young man That was a long time ago And they'd get punched in the face in the locker room

By his teammates after, right We discussed Ryan Fitzpatrick And what an ass that he is You're pumping up a guy Scampering down the sideline Anti-owned team Okay Hey, clearly Russell Wilson likes him

And Pete Carroll likes him I don't think they're signing him Because Russell Wilson likes him He called the great tails Heads or tails Last year, I don't know if you remember that Short list of bullet points Short list of quarterbacks

that have made the divisional round in each the last two years. Patrick Mahomes and Gino Smith. That's like Brock Osweiler leading the Texans to the playoffs, right, West? Tusha. Oh, the irony of Brian Fitzpatrick being the man that replaced Gino Smith, after Gino opted not to pay a teammate $300 for a plane ticket and blew off some type of speech with children. This is the guy that you support, Greg.

Well, I'm sure none of us have matured since we were 20, years old, you know, I'm sure no one can develop as a human. He's just stuck in ember back in 24 now. I don't argue I've not, but I don't know where you're coming from with that argument. All right. Good sake. And that was another edition of

Sipping on Vino, checking on Gino. That's what's happening in the news. All right, boys. Let's get to it. We spun the wheel. It landed on the Arizona Cardinals. So the first team and our team-by-team look at the National Football League. Our League is the Arizona Cardinals.

Here's a little setup for the Cardinals. Here we go. This is the 5-10-1 Arizona Cardinals of 2019. That was fourth place in the NFC West Division, coached by Cliff Kingsbury in his second year. They were 16th in the league in points four at 22 and a half points a game, 22.6, to be exact. They were 28th of 32 in points against, and they are a team that has been to one Super Bowl in their history. A narrow loss of the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 2008 season. And I want to get into it right there with the Arizona Cardinals and give the leadership

a lot of credit, boys, because the move to punt on Josh Rosen and draft Kyler Murray with the number one overall pick, that took a lot of guts. It also took, it was a huge whiff, and Josh Rosen, who knows anymore? Like, Rosen is just languishing in Miami, like 15th on the death chart at this point. I don't even know what's going to happen with his career. But that decision, that singular decision to say, we're not sure we got this right with Rosen and we love Kyler Murray so much the fact that we have the number one overall pick we need to relaunch this whole thing and we're going to do it with Murray and Cliff Kingsbury this coach that had up and down success in college but is a bright young mind we're going to kind of hitch our wagons to this coach and this quarterback as we look ahead now to 2020 after 2019 and the rookie seasons for both those guys it just feels like they made the absolute right decision and the

organization is so much better off for it, even if it was, let's face it, embarrassing the way it played out initially. It was the right decision and they shouldn't be embarrassed. Like more teams need to own up to their mistakes sooner. Steve Kyn might work an extra seven years in the NFL because they remind me so much, though, the Browns last year. Not not the total hype of the team and how deep they are, but just Baker and Kyler. Because Kyler is that hope. I know when you did your pain rankings, the Cardinals got dinged because they haven't been in a consistent place for one long. But if there is some mythical Cardinals fan who's been a fan this whole time going back 50, 60 years, they're it. They're the worst. I don't know if they have the most pain

or not, but they're the worst NFL, they've been the worst in terms of results, NFL organization that there's ever been. I'd say one very hopeful note going forward is that that switch to Kyler Murray and Steve Kheim being willing to say, all right, whether we got Rosenright or not, we're going to work with what Cliff Kingsbury wants. The teams where the GM and the coach are not listening to each other, and you could have had a power, a classic NFL power struggle that would have held the team back for years. Didn't happen.

And so Kime lives on. And it shows that Cliff Kingsbury has a voice and a lot of power. It also shows how quickly you can reverse your fortunes in the NFL. Yeah. And you can fall from great heights so quickly, but you can also rebuild in a year. You are not damned to be in the cellar. forever, unless you're the Browns or the Lions.

All right. Sorry, Mark. What about the Bengals? How about you? I remember that other team from Ohio. They fit in the basement pretty well. All right. Absolutely.

Let's stay on topic, boys. And now we've set the table. Let's bring in a guest. All right. Like we said, for this segment, we're going to bring in somebody from the outside, somebody that gets it, someone who's in it. and Darren Urban of the Cardinals' website is as plugged in as anyone. This is his 21st season covering the pro team in Arizona.

So now we welcome him to the Around the NFL podcast. What's up, Darren? Welcome to the show. How are you guys doing? We're doing well. We're doing well. What's life like on the Arizona Cardinals beat? You know, how competitive is it?

Do you love doing it? Give us, give us like your feelings on working. in this beat. He better after 21 years. I was going to say. No, it's always been something I've very much enjoyed. I've been lucky enough to kind of work a couple different sides of it, clearly. I was at a newspaper for a number of years, the East Valley Tribune before coming over to the team website. And I've been fortunate enough where I think in a lot of ways, you know, obviously working for a team is different than working for a newspaper, but I feel like they've really given me a lot of freedom to do a lot of the things that I would have done

anyways. And there's a lot of people that I work alongside in the league that work for other teams that kind of like raise their eyebrows sometimes with some of the stuff I'm able to write, which quite frankly makes me happy because I feel like, okay, I'm doing a pretty decent job here. So, you know, obviously I love it. I've been here, you know, doing this, covering this team for 21 years and I don't plan on changing any time soon. Darren, when I look the Cardinals this offseason, great offseason so far. The question that is foremost in my mind is when they say that Isaiah Simmons is primarily going to be a linebacker, they paid Jordan Hicks a lot of money. I think you reported that Devandre Campbell was their number one target and free agency

this year. And then Van Shosa's background, we've sort of lost some confidence in the last few years about what he can do for a defense. I know he made his name as a defensive backs coach with the Bengals, why should we be confident? Or is there anything you hear behind the scenes or see from Vance Joseph that makes you confident that they're going to have a great plan for Isaiah Simmons that makes sense for everyone? Well, I mean, I start with the idea, guys, that, you know, you don't draft a guy like Isaiah Simmons unless you've had many, many, many conversations beforehand of if this guy's on the board, what are we going to do with them? And how are we best going to deploy him so that he's going to be the kind of player that everybody expects him

to be. So in that regard, I think they're going to have a good plan in place. I mean, it's going to hurt just like most of these rookies that he's not going to get a chance to be on the field for a while and be within the defense in a practice setting, you know, until training camp. But I do think that I think some of the things that Vance Joseph went through last year with what didn't work with this defense. I don't think that was all on him. I think there was personnel that desperately needed to be changed up and overhauled. There were injuries that they dealt with. And I know that sounds a little bit like excuse making, but I was making this point on our own podcast this week. You know, when you, people want to talk about where this

defense is, Patrick Peterson talking about how this is a great team that he's on and everything, if we would have talked about the defense, the Cardinals would have had on May 1st, last year, that defense didn't exist by the time we got to September 1st. I mean, Patrick Peterson had gotten suspended. Robert Offer got hurt. They had a couple defensive linemen have issues and get cut. I mean, they look dramatically different by the time they got on the field. I think right now with what Vance Joseph has to work with, I like what it looks like. And I think that would help him get Isaiah Simmons into the right places. Now, what it looks like when they actually start playing games, that could be a whole different ball game. DeAndre,

Hopkins, the trade is obviously the big story, the huge story leading into the off season, kicking off the off season for the Cardinals. Was this something that was in the offing as some of that was close to the team that the Cardinals were going to be aggressive looking for a number one guy for Kyler Murray? And was Hopkins a name that you had heard out there? And how surprising was it when it all went down? I'll be honest. The part of it, I was stunned on. I had heard some rumblings that they were going to be able to deal David Johnson, which was a little surprising to me given his contract situation. And there wasn't a lot of specifics. So I wasn't surprised they were able to find a trade partner for David Johnson

because I had heard that possibility. But in terms of getting D'Andre Hopkins, I mean, I was completely on that thought process that they might spend the number eight pick on a number one receiver to go with fits to go with christian kirk i know the day that the hopkins trade dropped i mean i was i was as surprised as most everybody um i didn't think the texans would want to deal him i know it's since then it even dandre has talked about that uh he had heard that they had been trying to deal him for about a year which i still don't understand but that's that's another team i'll let texans dot com worry about that but i mean i just i feel like that did kind of come out of left field. And for them to land a number one receiver that way and in the process moving David

Johnson's deal, I mean, I think that's set up this entire offseason in a good way for the Cardinals because then that opened up what they could do in the draft. It gave them a little more flexibility and free agency. I just, it just changed the whole ball game. Darren, we, you know, we got one season's worth of Cliff Kingsbury. And I feel like the biggest story attached to him was his high Octane living scenario during the draft. That turned some heads. But when you look at this coach and I look at their schedule last year, and if I looked at one area, they could improve.

It might have been maybe the two-minute offense. They lost a series of games very close at the end. They lost to the Ravens and Steelers, 23 to 17. That's one area you could point to with Cliff where maybe there's a little bit of a curve there. When you look at him, what does he bring to the Cardinals that's special that maybe your average fan wouldn't know about him. One of the things I love about Cliff Kingsbury, which I wasn't necessarily expecting.

You know, when he first got hired, I did, you know, the natural big story about who is Cliff Kingsbury and everything, talking to a lot of people. And they said a lot of the things that I saw up close, which was his ego isn't what you would think it might be given some people seeing his persona. And I think that played out on the field. I mean, this was a team that went into. into training camp and the regular season thinking, okay, we're going to run, you know, the four wide, quick passing all the time, all this stuff, not use a lot of tight ends. And that just wasn't working. They made the effort to get a running back that fit better in the offense with Kenyon Drake.

He started morphing so that he used the tight end more often. They ran the ball, I think, a little bit more than a lot of us expected. And I think you could see as the season went on that he was willing. to change if that was necessary. And I think all of us have seen situations where there are coaches that don't think that way. They all talk that way. They all say they're going to, you know, make their offense or make their game plan work for their personnel.

But there's so many coaches that don't actually do it. I think Clip Kingsbury is a guy that is willing to swallow his ego. A lot of players talked about when they went to him, hey, what about this, what about this? And he would not only listen to him, But if he didn't have the answer, he would say, you know what? I don't know. Let me look into that and I'll get back to you.

And he would do that. I think a lot of players appreciate that. And I think the fact that he's willing to be that flexible, I think means a lot going forward. Yeah, I think Cliff Kingsbury and Kyler Murray's relationship, like how he gets the best out of Kyler. I mean, that basically is the Cardinals. I mean, that's why they hired him. And I guess I wonder, you've seen Darren so many quarterbacks come through Arizona in 21 years. I mean, John Skelton and John Nol.

Navar and you've seen some you've seen some bad ones. Kevin Cobb. You've seen some good ones like Carson. Who do we hang out with at the Combine, Sessler? Yeah, that's right. Was that skeleton? I don't know if you were allowed to check. You saw one great one in in Kurt Warner. You've never seen one kind of come in like this as a number one overall draft pick. I'm guess I'm curious, you're someone that's there every single day. You're in the locker. You're a practice. Like how did you think he handled that that first year of being the guy? And like what, what are the reactions of, I guess, the rest of the organization and his teammates around him to how he handled it? You know, obviously when Kyler was drafted, there was so many questions about it.

The team spending a first round pick on a quarterback two years in a row. Josh Rosen was there all the way up until the trap. There was a lot of tension, quite frankly, in the air with a lot of that stuff. And I had some questions over Kyler Murray, and I had seen him in college, but I had the same, I wondered the same things a lot of people did. And then once I saw him throwing even on air in those first few practices, I'm like, oh, okay, I guess I can see what they see. And I think as the season went on, in a lot of ways, what Kyler did mirrored what Cliff did in terms of a learning curve. I mean, if you look at those first four, five, six games, Kyler Murray did things that you're like, okay, you're not going to be able to do

that. You need to realize, especially after those first few games, guess what, you're not going or get the corner on some of these linemen. You think you are because they weigh 100 more pounds than you or whatever it is, but they can still chase you down. He had to learn some of that stuff. There were so many sacks early in the year that Kyler Murray just shouldn't have been taking because he thought he could run around forever until he did something, and that doesn't work on this level.

And I think his learning curve, I think, was impressive from game one to game 16. And I do think once I got to the end of the year, I see a guy who can be a franchise quarterback who can throw it from the pocket, you know, can use his legs. Are there things he needs to learn? Absolutely. You know, I was listening to a radio interview this week with both Kurt Warner and Carson Palmer talking about Kyler. And one of the things they mentioned was the fact that he still needs to take the throws that are there. You know, once in a while there's going to be a nine-yard curl route that's right there early in the play. Just take it.

You don't need to make it be bigger. than it is. And I do think there are some plays like that that he will get better at. But like you said, Greg, I mean, I think Cliff and Kyler, that marriage is only going to get better. And, you know, Cliff, not being into office and hanging out at home by himself, that just gives him that much more time to sit and think about what he wants to be Tyler Murray. And I do think that that's going to have an impact at some point. Do you say having no kids is a sneaky advantage for Cliff Kingsbury in a pandemic? Well, for humans in general, right?

That's right. All right, Darren Irvin. And as we know, franchises that wander through the desert, literally in Arizona, looking for a quarterback fan suffer for decades. But so do beatwriters. So we're very happy that Darren has young Kyler Murray to make his job more exciting going forward. And thank you for joining us today, giving us that perspective. And best of luck and stay healthy, Mr. Urban.

Happy to talk to you guys. Thanks, Darren. All right. Thanks, there he goes. Darren Urban. You could check him out on Twitter and also the Arizona Cardinals team site. His Twitter handle is at Cards Chatter. So check that out. We hung out at a Waffle House with Ryan Lindley at the Combine. I don't know why that would be secret of Mark. Well, you know, it was because. Mark holds it on to it like a state secret. Well, a lot of stuff happened. I think some of it should be secret. What time of the morning was it? Well, it was before and after the sun rose, Greg. That's true. That's true. We had a good time.

All right. So, great conversation there with Darren. And that is kind of my big question as we kind of spin forward here with Kyler Murray is, is he the guy? Is he special enough to rise this team to the top of the NFC West, which, as we know, is a very competitive division? I mean, you look at where they're at right now. They're coming off last place finished last year, but we saw Murray get better and he even won offensive rookie of the year.

But the Rams are a team in transition. The Seahawks always are going to be in the mix. The Niners, of course, are coming off a Super Bowl. visit. So where do the Cardinals shake out in this division? And does Murray have to be an MVP level guy for them to be a major presence in 2020? You know, I saw some talk about Kyler Murray as an MVP candidate. You know, the odds are out there. And he was like six or seventh on the list. And I saw some chatter like, oh, that maybe of all those, that's the best value. And I thought, like, I love Kyler Murray. And that seems crazy to me. It's like Patrick Mahom.

and Lamar Jackson, I think, have people thinking that everyone's going to be an MVP or close to it in their second year in the league. And it's like, Kyler Murray could be 300% better, be a top 10 quarterback. And this team could still be pretty lousy. Like if we had, if we had time, you know, with Darren, it's like I would have, what do the Cardinals see, I guess, in their offensive line, in their secondary, in their defensive line that we don't see because they didn't really touch those positions. And I think it's the toughest division in football. Even if Kyler Murray plays really well, I guess I think they're still the most likely team to be in last. Could they be better?

Could they sneak out nine or ten? Sure, but it feels like, man, Kyler Murray would have to be like insanely good to be an MVP candidate. I mean, they seem to be talked about as they remind me a little bit. The Bucks stole this mantle, but of the hype surrounding maybe the Niners two years ago or the Browns a year ago where we haven't seen it and you're assuming a lot's going to happen in a hurry for a team.

that really won five games last year and had holes. But I think West mentioned it before. When you look at what they've added, I'm not sure that a team grew as much as the Cardinals did this offseason. And they're not that far away from having what Cliff Kingsbury would imagine his offense to be the way that Kyle Shanhan got there in a couple of years with the Niners. And they did get Josh Jones a tackle at the number 72 pick. And, you know, some people had, you know, these tackles were rated all over the map.

but PFF had him as their 14th rated guy overall in the draft, and he is a massive dude. And if he works out, I mean, a top 10 pick at offensive line is a top 10 pick at offensive line is a dart throw. Once you get into that range, it feels like, you know, you're just praying that you're going to get a fringe starter.

I'm just saying they did not address it. I mean, they, right. And also you have to pack in DeAndre Hopkins as part of their offseason hall and it affected their draft situation. Absolutely. But I guess I look at their offseason, I think other than Hopkins.

which was the move of the offseason, and that can't be understated. I guess I don't see what they add. They added a draft class, sure, and it looks promising, but a lot of Steve Kimes' draft classes look promising. I guess I don't put a ton of stock into that, and it's basically Hopkins, and it's counting on Murray to get better, which is a reasonable, you know, expectation. Well, he, this offense finished seventh in weighted DVOA,

which slants the stats, advanced stats towards the end of the season. And if you did better in December, you're going to finish higher and weighted DVOA. So a top 10 offense down the stretch, once Christian Kirk got healthy, Kyler Murray went most of the year with one of the worst wide receiver cores in the NFL. He went most of the year with a bad offensive line. They get Marcus Gilbert back at right tackle. Like Mark said, they bring in Josh Jones. I want to know, is that weight to DVOA?

Is that a small sample size effect? is that Cliff Kingsbury's Smoke and Mears effect. How much of that is real? How much of that is gains that will carry over to next year? And I think that's a big question. But when you watch Kyler Murray play, there are weeks where you say, who spins it like this guy?

Like his accuracy and release, especially on intermediate and deep balls, is really impressive. I think if you made it hit like the 10 best throws of Kyler Murray season, it would stack up with most any quarterback in the league. And I think Cliff, it's only a year, but they were second in rushing DVOA for the year with Kenyon Drake, with, you know, with David, the former, you know, David Johnson, essentially with Chase Edmonds. Like, I do think there should be excitement and Kyler is such a threat in the running game that, like, maybe Cliff is going to be like Kyle Shanahan Light or Kyle Shanahan when it comes to the running game. And that makes everything like a lot easier.

It's more about the defense, I guess, that I'm not quite buying. in on the cards. I got to bring up Jason Zumwald. I asked him because he is a, you know, friend of the show and a big Cardinals fan, what his number one concern was. And there's a lot to be optimistic for Dan's longtime friend. And, you know, I mean, he's, he's a bit of a snake bit Cardinals fan the way that some of us are with certain franchises. He mentioned, like, Mark, bringing up Jason like he's Robert De Niro. Well, we've mentioned him so many times on the show. To me, he is. Longtime listeners, no. To me, he's at least Christopher walking based on his walking with Giants bits.

He is a bit of a celebrity to me, and he's written real television shows, which is an easy to do. Absolutely. What a talent. He is a talent. And he mentioned, and this is a bit of a deep dive, he didn't like AQ Shipley being shipped out at center and has some questions about whether Mason Cole can step in. But I think the offensive line is your question. And, you know, they, if you look at there, and I don't have the DVOA scenario here, but they were the 29th ranked offense in the red zone, from 20 to goal line. that they got into those situations and they couldn't score sometimes. And a lot of times it was because teams knew you just dropped seven defensive backs

on this four wide receiver set and you let the rest of the guys chase after Kyla Murray and he made some bad decisions. That's one area they need to improve because if you watch that Cleveland win and then they went and beat the Seahawks next week, if that's what it's being waited on, it felt like they started to awaken become what you think they could become late in the year. And I think Red Zone is where you separate the real stars. is that quarterback from guys like Kirk Cousins

and Jared Gough who moved the sticks from the 20s, but can you bring the ball into the end zone? I think the red zone is where the spectacular quarterbacks do their work. Put them in a body bag, Wes. All right, over under, Chris Wessling, Arizona

Cardinals, eight and a half wins. I'm going under. I just think that's a big jump. That's a huge jump. I could see them win in eight games. I don't see them as a playoff team. I do think, looking on the bright side, the one thing I like about this team compared to last year is they have much more depth on both sides of the ball. Great offseason for Kime. I don't know. I don't see it. I'm going

under because to me the defensive line might be one of the worst in football, not deep at all. The cornerback situation, Patrick Peterson did not look like Patrick Peterson a year ago, and behind them, it's one of the worst situations in football, no depth at all. and Mark mentioned the line. So those are three pretty key areas that I was, like they like those positions because they didn't touch them, but I'd go under. I think this division's brutal. If they won seven games, I feel like that'd be a great accomplishment.

It's a rough division for everyone, though. I would go nine and seven because, again, I'd mentioned to Darren that they lost five games last year by like a score or something. And I think that we saw who they were down the stretch. their line, defensive line is not great, but they added two defensive tackles. They're getting some guys healthy. I mean, in general, listening to some of their guys talk, like they feel like there is, to West's point, more depth on defense.

And they can't get much worse than they were last year. I'll go, I'll take the over. And, Greg, you talked about the MVP odds and Murray showing up. I think that definitely, like you alluded to, is a direct correlation to what happened with Lamar Jackson and what he did in year two. And I'd guess I'd be smart. I'd feel confident betting that Kyler Murray is going to be one of the best quarterbacks in the NFC after his second full season.

I think he feels like a can't miss guy. If he stays healthy and they did a great job in getting him a true number one receiver, there just seems like a real chance to me that this guy is going to blow up this year. And that's fun to root for. Jason Zumwaltz, my buddy. I'd like to see it. So I could see if Murray is a transcendent guy. And I think he could be.

This team could win 10 games. And certainly with an extra playoff spot, you are going to the playoffs. So how about the playoffs or cards? I'll take that prediction. Like it. Right there. All right.

That wraps up our Arizona Cardinals deep dive. And we'll be doing this every Wednesday-ish. Maybe every Wednesday. Maybe not every Wednesday. But we'll be doing it a whole bunch of times. And we'll spin the wheel again. at the end of Monday show to find out who team two will be. And again, anybody that thought, and Ricky, jump in a second here,

anybody who thought that this was not organic, that we picked the Cardinals to start with, that couldn't be further from the truth. Mark just guessed it. Who would pick the Cardinals? Right. Why would you launch it that way? Yeah.

Well, we did. And I feel good about it. I think we did a nice job with it. So we'll keep moving on with our team by team series. that wraps up the Wednesday edition of the Around the NFL podcast. A reminder, Friday, our next time talking into the mics, Around the NFL broadcast on NFL Network at 6 p.m. Eastern, 3 p.m. Pacific. If you are overseas, you can check it out on Game Pass International.

If you are here in the United States and you don't have NFL network, it's a problem. And I know some people have reached out to us about that. We've done some internal deep diving trying to see if there's any way to get the show. So far, no luck on that front. You need NFL network. So maybe find a friend that has NFL network, tell them to DVR it and come by. It's a good time to hang out with friends, large groups, if you can, get a lot of people together. Or her house.

Listen, we have all sorts of listeners to this fine show. All right. Stan Hans is signing off for Quiet Storm, the mailman, the old boss, Ricky Hollywood, behind. the door of her spacious West Hollywood apartment with a pool in the center. Good for you. Until Friday. Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies. to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sundays. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app,

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