NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Bears-Panthers TNF Recap with Mina Kimes

Episode Date: November 10, 2023

Hero Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Mina Kimes to recap the Week 10 Thursday Night Football matchup between the Bears and Panthers. First, Gregg and Mina start with breaking down the Panthers play and the decisions leading up to the questionable field goal decision (3:10), try to determine what the Panthers offensive identity is (10:35), and take a look at the Bears victory, what factored into and what to expect from Tyson Bagent going forward. (16:10) Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. They're going to try to stop the run. They're one of the best in the league, and they want to establish a run on their side. We've got to match that physicality. Trent and Gill. Fields at the 24, escapes. Nice run back. Only one man to beat.

And Gill down the sidelines, skirting the sidelines, and takes it all the way into the flag down. give it to forming and he's in the ante foreman takes it into the touchdown field goal attempt for Eddie Pinheiro Pinheiro's kick is no good comes up short on a 59-yard field goal robbing us of a chance for overtime between Bears Panthers. Bears win 16 to 13 and I got to admit Mina Kimes with me on this Thursday night recap that I was getting increasingly anxious Mina that I asked you to join me for

this of all games and that it was potentially going to overtime like I was just feeling like internal guilt that that I as a friend asked you to do this and you were nice enough to say yes and that this thing might be going late night. El Michaels was so stoked when he missed like that. He's just trying to hide it a little bit but like the tone of his voice when he made the call. He was just so delighted. We knew we were in for. I knew what I was in for when I signed up for this game. I chose you. We talked about doing last week. And I said, no, Greg, let's wait because I have you on my podcast today, the Minicam Show featuring Lenny first episode back in a while. Check it out where you get

pods. We previewed a bunch of hopefully better games. And I said, let's record that night so that the listeners can, I can, you know, advertise your appearance. And so I, you know, nothing, no, my impression of this team, I guess at that time I thought maybe we get Justin Fields, which would have been a little more exciting. But, you know, I was, I was, I was, I was, was committed. I thought, I mean, now you're making me even more anxious that you beat me to plug in your show before. I did. No, but the football season is much better with Mina and one of my favorite podcasts. I almost was thinking like, oh, I want to listen to Mina's back. I want to listen to the podcast. It was like, oh, wait. I was on it. I don't need to. You're great. I'll wait

till next week with Dominique and all the friends. Look, we're going to go through this game. And I do want to start at the end of the game. But we'll talk more big picture with these two teams thinking about next year and thinking about the trade that they made and especially thinking about our short king Bryce Young there at the end of the game. I had mixed emotions because yes, I wasn't really looking forward to an overtime but I wanted good things for Bryce Young. I wanted a touchdown on that drive and it was kind of typical of the night.

It was very difficult to get first downs, but they actually did get first downs on that drive. They got the ball back left with seven minutes and ten seconds left on the clock in all three timeouts. they took five and a half minutes, used the timeout, and went 50 yards on 15 plays, three first downs, including a handful of fourth down conversions. That was kind of their offense tonight. It was very difficult, and they end up choosing because of a fourth in ten situation where Bryce Young almost got picked off the play before to kick something that's, seemed out of Eddie Pinheiro's range, and it was out of Eddie Pinheiro's range. Like, talk me through, I guess what you saw from Young, that drive in particular, and we'll

go through the whole night, but also that decision to just, like, not even try for the fourth and ten. I was thinking, like, this is crazy. This is a total lack of faith. Like, if he had not thrown an interception or a near interception on that play before, I'm thinking they would have just gone for it, but I think they got spooked. Yeah, I can't defend the 59-yard field goal. But in some ways, it is emblematic of how difficult it is to talk about the Panthers right now.

Or rather, how difficult it is to kind of analyze what's wrong with the Panthers? Because on one hand, I can say, you idiot, why would you ask your kicker to do that? But in other hand, do any of us really believe they would have converted that fourth in ten? And then on the other hand, is it Bryce Young's fault or is it the skill player's fault? On the other hand, is the play caller to blend? You know what I mean? It's just like everything is so bad and everything is kind of feeding off of each other at that point. I mean, they were moving the ball on that drive, largely because the bears, for some reason,

were seating the only part of the field that they were able to throw to, which was like the shallow middle. So, you know, there were, Bryce was able to make a few, I guess, stitch together a few completions there. But for the most part, it was a pretty miserable viewing experience. I will say, I thought the Panthers' offensive line looked better at times than they have through most of the season. but again, the Bears pass rushes, not exactly great shakes. Right, but even then, the Bears still sacked him three times, counting it up here. Sweat and Jones had three QB hits each. I think they had nine as a team.

So some of that was on Bryce Young, maybe a lot of it was on Bryce Young. Some of it was on the offensive line. The drive before, they actually kicked a field goal on fourth and five at the 20, and I thought just like, you're going to need a touchdown at some. point two and they they didn't go for it and one of the reasons they did have that drive that they got to the pinero 59 yard attempt is they actually were using all four downs and I didn't I didn't blame them that they're not going forward on fourth down the rest of the day because there was nothing about this offense that gives you any confidence no running game before that last drive their success rate

was lower than any team Robert Mays tweeted this out in any game this year other than I think the Dorian Thompson Robinson game. This is a pretty miserable offensive. Like the New York football teams, neither of them. There was one other game. I'll find it while we're talking. But like when you see Bryce

Young right now, what do you see? Because I actually think he was progressing steadily each and every week. People that didn't watch like that Dolphins game, for instance. I thought he played well in the dolphin game. And there were probably four or five throws in a lot of these games that were like, ooh, that was

those were Bryce Young throws, but the last two weeks, for the most part, have been pretty rough, including tonight. Yeah, I don't know why. This defense is worse than, like, the Texans defense, which I thought he looked better again. Well, are they? Yeah, they are. Yeah, I feel comfortable saying that, especially with some of the injuries. Okay, so on one hand, he is right now a quarterback where the TV broadcast, which we just watched, makes him look worse than he is, because no one is open in this offense. much of the time. So when you're watching TV broadcasts and he's holding on to it, he's taking sacks, he's throwing it away, it looks awful. Then later when you watch the tape doesn't exonerate Bryce Young, but it gives him a lot of excuses, and I suspect that'll be the case. On the other hand, like, some of the misses, it's odd for me because to my eye, a lot of it looks like if he's under

any sort of pressure and he can't really like step into it, part because of his stature, he seems to be sailing throws or missing downfield but on the other hand it's really confusing because he routinely made those types of throws in college and I understand that the speed of play is different the defenders are different or whatever

but just the sort of mechanics of it he would make impressive throws with touch under pressure all the time so I guess it's it's hard to watch it doesn't feel good I suspect that if he was in a good situation, he would look decent based on the flashes we've seen. But for the number one overall pick that you just traded, you know, a valuable draft capital to the team that just beat you, you don't want a quarterback who needs everything to be perfect around him or even really good around him.

And I think that is why as a Panthers fan, you probably feel pretty nervous at the moment. Right. Someone asked me, they're like, do you think, you know, Young and Stroudward switched spaces, would their results be similar? And I was like, no, I think Stroud would make more of Carolina, but Bryce Young would look a lot better if he was in Houston. I don't think he would look necessarily as good as C.J. Stroud and wouldn't make the second reaction plays. There probably would be more problems, but he would look better.

The height seems like a thing. Like on the pick six, the second one last week to Kenny Moore, it felt like he was trying to get it over the first defender, and he had to put more speed on it than he could. could or tonight there was an early third down where montes sweat kind of had a a late pressure flashed in his face and then he sailed the ball and i hate that because i don't want the height to be a thing um as a diminutive man myself you know i'm i'm loving tank dell's breakout season it's it's the year of the little receiver yes actually i did a whole thing on that on nfl plus this week

you know you guys should check it out i think i think it's still a free preview on nfl plus um but It feels like a factor. Then again, I think of other number one picks who have had absolutely disaster seasons. Al Michael said something tonight. It's like, in the day we live in, people want to make, you know, quick judgments. And that's true. And we're, you know, two of the people doing it on some level. But at least in the last 20 years, people were always making quick judgments.

People made absolutely quick judgments on Eli Manning, who had one of the worst rookie seasons I've ever seen. And it was getting filleted in New York. Alex Smith was worse, I would say, maybe the worst number one overall pick rookie season. Jared Goff was in that ballpark. Jamarcus Russell was in that ballpark too and never bounced back. But those are, you know, three quarterbacks that went on to have good career, certainly. So I don't think anyone is saying like it means your career's not going to work. But it does mean like this group in Carolina is being questioned fairly.

I think Baldi sent out a tweet tonight too. just like can anyone explain what carolina's offense is to me and i'm like man if you've lost brian baldinger i think that that's a problem like there was a second and 16 play where everyone where he's on his own goal line and everyone's just running curls and it does seem like they don't really have a lot of answers because they don't have great players and i don't think they don't really have a scheme to overcome it yeah i i was trying to figure out kind of like what's what's the goal here Like, like, you know, because, you know, it was Frank Reich, and then he passed off playcalling to Thomas Brown, who comes from the Rams, and it doesn't, it doesn't look very, like, either, I guess, I mean, it certainly doesn't look like the Rams, but they don't have the personnel to do a lot of that stuff. And, you know, again, that's with the play calling. It's like, well, you know, I don't really know. Like, yeah, we can, I mean, there's decisions. in terms of less balance and when you call

and that kind of thing. But as far as like the actual play calling goes, watching this group, I don't know what, I hear that and I agree and it looks really bad, but I also don't know what would work with the personnel that they have. I mean, that's,

it, yeah, it's pretty befuddling. Do you think Frank Reich passed off play calling very publicly once you realize that nothing was going to make it look good? As I'm saying, it out loud. It's not like it looked better than, I mean.

A man of integrity. You know what? He said it earlier publicly, actually, that he was planning to pass it off all along. And his players said that too. It actually was something he talked about, I think, as early as training camp that at some point. So I don't think it was some plan. But you're right.

I mean, they kind of mixed up who they're playing a little bit. They have a different running back rotation. And there's a couple things. They did do more play action tonight. I don't know. when Adam Thielen is your one and mingo's just maybe not ready for that sort of role they're trying to like those guys should be threes and fours and they're trying to make it ones and twos like terrace marshall they were supposedly going to cut but he's out there like getting the third most amount of snaps they

tried to trade him before the deadline so it's tough it's a little sad I'm not totally giving up sometimes rookie seasons are really ugly for a while and then you can have like a good final three or four games and start feeling better about it. Gino had a nice run at the end of one of those seasons with the Jets back in the day. So it can't happen. Looking at like the trade though now, what were your thoughts on the trade that, you know, at the time?

I didn't hate it for Carol. I definitely, first of all, one of the things I really got wrong this offseason was I get, I don't know why I thought Carolina's skill group would be fine. I thought the offensive line would be good because they were improving as the season went on last year and by the end of the year, Kwano, who's really taken a step back,

although I don't think it was that terrible tonight, to be honest, but at the end of the year, they seemed like they were headed in the right direction. The run game looked so good. You remember with Foreman, it's a former revenge game, last season. So I thought, like, yeah, this isn't the greatest group of skill players,

but Charks healthy and Hearst looks like he did in Cincinnati it's probably good enough that was clearly incorrect I mean not that you know there's been injuries and all that but it's it's just been so ugly so anyways

at the time my thinking with the trade was like you know you're if there's a guy I love a team doing what it takes to go up and get him I think though I underestimated how bad the situation, and how in the process of trading away DJ Moore, not that he did that much tonight, for example,

but how much worse the situation was becoming. And maybe in terms of like takeaways going forward, as I think about like, you know, teams taking big swings in the draft and that kind of thing, this definitely wouldn't deter me if you, if you have like firm conviction and a quarterback to go up and get him and certainly Chicago will be in that position. But you probably don't want to do something that, also immediately sets that quarterback up to fail.

So maybe that is the takeaway. I don't know. I think this might speak people from the size for a while, though. I will say that. It could be a setback for the short quarterback movement until or unless he improves. Yeah, because DJ Moore is worth like a high first round pick. I know you have to give him the contract and everything, but DJ Moore is like a best case scenario for, you know, a mid first round pick, essentially,

and you have them locked up. So that Chicago has to be really happy tonight because they have the Panthers first round pick and it's looking like the odds on favorite for the number one overall pick. You know, them and the Cardinals are going to be in the mix. The Giants are going to be in the mix. The bears now have a third win. The way they're playing, they feel like they'll win. a few more games.

We'll talk about the Bears. We'll take a quick break and then we'll come back. Okay, we are back and yeah, we should talk about the Bears fans are probably listening to this and like, this is one of the better nights for Bears fans in a while. It's been a tough go for many years. The fact that you own Carolina's pick and you beat them to bury them even further into your pick, I mean, it's about as good a moment as the Bears have had in a while. and they don't even have to worry about the whole, like,

is Tason Bejant, like, better than Justin Feet? Like, no one's going to be getting into that. So they're sort of threaded that needle perfectly. That's another win. I was thinking that coming out of this game where you have – I always feel like as a fan, you just want clarity and you want your organization to have clarity. And, you know, I mean, the Bayesian thing lasted way long.

It even started at the beginning of this game. And I was like, come on, don't – you know, with Kirk and Al, but they – I feel like after two drives, they're like – Yeah, we're not going to pretend like this guy's more than a backup, which I appreciated. It was like a much smaller version of Russell Wilson, Seattle, week one last year, in terms of the stakes for the trading team. Not really, but like from the perspective of the Bears, you know, where you feel really good about it, the further you get away from it, I think.

just the amount of options that they have, feeling like, you know, seeing how bad the team you trade with is, the pick becoming increasingly valuable, all of it, I feel like you have to feel pretty good about. And there's also, there's glimpses on their team. I think the defense, you've had a few guys step up over the last, I know I was kind of making fun of the beginning of this,

but they have played better as the season has gone along. there have been individual players who have emerged as like probably being the core if you want to call it that sweat also the trade that actually i think looks pretty good early on so yeah it feels like a pretty good night for chicago yeah i think they had a couple dexter made a one play who was one of their draft picks tonight on the back end their secondary solid keiler gordon's been playing pretty well sweat sweat gives them something it They just, they had too much cap space. Some teams have too much cap space, I think. And it's just harder to find good young players to spend it on than it is to spend. So I think Montes Sweat was totally, it was totally fine. Yeah, I feel the same way about the company. It was, it's very different than Chase Claypool.

Everyone bringing the Chase Claypool comes. It's like, no, he's, he's a verifiable, like, top 25 edge or top 20 edge. And, like, you can be happy with him and, and you have the pick. My only thing is, like, when you're saying they have to be happy, Like Bears fans, yes. But when I think they, I'm not totally sure Ryan Poles is going to get a chance to make this pick. Now, there's been some whispers I've heard about that. So it's like, I don't know for sure, because I don't know if Matt Eberflus,

who's now, I think six and 20 something, like 25, is going to be the coach for sure. And I don't know for sure if Ryan Poles is definitely the guy who gets to make those picks. And then it's kind of like, well, why did we do? that and and as much as they are really happy that they made those picks it's like you still don't have necessarily the quarterback that you believe in and that that's the main thing is you need to get that guy and maybe that's Drake mayor Caleb Williams and they got a chance to take them but you know they passed they passed on the quarterbacks in this draft they passed on you know Mahomes of course back in the day for Trevisky but wasn't that far back in the day like

Do you think polls and, like, what would you do? Do you think polls deserves it not, like, to stay and whether, let's say they, like, finish out here five and 12, something like that, like, whether it makes sense to, like, keep rolling here with Iber Flues and whatnot? Well, so I don't see the case that Iber Fluse has made. I mean, the defense has been awful. Like I said, they have been playing better. But during his tenure, I don't think they've done enough, you know, as a defensive coach,

I don't think they've done enough for him to save the job. Yeah, especially like if you were to get, honestly, even if you keep Justin Fields, but if you were to get a young quarterback, I would not keep the unsuccessful defensive head coach, you bet. Like, it just doesn't make any sense. In fact, if you get a young quarterback, I think it's probably a pretty desirable job,

one of the two for your Ben Johnson's or whatever of the world. So I think a lot of this in terms of their future, Poles' future, what they do, obviously, is going to ride. And maybe it shouldn't, but I just think it will on fields. Who's probably going to return next week because he was questionable or whatever to return this week. And, you know, when you look at their schedule, I have it in front of me, like there's a lot of winnable games on here.

So they go Detroit stuff, Vikings in prime time, Detroit again. Cleveland's tough, but then you finish with Arizona, Atlanta, Green Bay. Those are all games that they can win, all games where I think Justin Fields, if he finishes the season with a certain amount of momentum, it's going to become like a very gnarly situation for them. In a good way, though. I mean, look, I think if they have a top two pick, if Carolina's the top two pick,

I don't think it's that gnarly, almost no matter how well he plays. I think they just look at it as like amazing, that they can get what they can get for Justin Fields, they can get the quarterback and, you know, who knows what else they can get because they'll have their pick and they'll have what they can get for fields and they have an extra second. It's exciting because, look, the picks they got last year

for in this trade were Darno Wright and Tyreeks Stevenson and the picks always look great on paper. And Darno Wright, I think it's actually played pretty well last couple of weeks just from, I've seen. Stevenson's a rookie corner who's struggling, but that happens. But you got to make the picks count, but that's a lot. And I think that's something to sell ownership, certainly,

that polls kind of like had set them up well and deserves a chance. Yeah, I remember really liking the trade for Chicago at the time. Even if I thought, oh, even if the Bryce Young is really, they're giving up a really great quarterback. I guess, you know, like it could have been Z.J. Stroud. And in that respect, you know, you would, you would do it. Like if you now are a Barrett's fan, you could Ryan Poles and you could turn back time, you would take CJ Strout there, right?

Like, that's what you would do. Yes. Yeah. But with what they knew and I think. And with Fields, what they knew of Fields, yes. What they knew of Fields, the fact that when I saw DJ Moore was part of the trade, I really liked it for them because of, you know, his value and the fact that I, even though I know I said at the beginning, I thought Carolina was a good,

good a much better place for a quarterback i didn't think they'd be good so i liked it from that perspective as well um so yeah i i kind of dodged your question about polls his future eber flus to me is like a much easier question it's also a little unfair there's like eight games left of the season there are eight games left and i'm asking you to uh his talk about another person's job it's fair you know he's had there's things he's done that i i think the the trade was good Like you said, we talked about I thought the sweat trade was fine Obviously the Claypool trade is the famous failure

But the Edmund signing doesn't look very wise I was befuddled at the time The decision to go from Roquan to him You know and then seeing Roquan have the year he's having The two year and a half he's having That doesn't feel great either So it's a mixed bag to be honest The Iber flus higher

It doesn't look great He's officially 6 and 21 That's the number Yeah that's not Not ideal. Not good, but they have gotten better. You know, they went into this game, even though they turned the ball over so much on offense, they were above average in yards per drive, points per drive.

Like, they actually have moved the ball fairly well, despite four games with an undrafted rookie backup quarterback, who actually looks like a perfectly reasonable backup quarterback long term. He's going to play forever. Right, which is a nice thing to have, though, on a rookie contract. That was the whole idea behind the Rams drafting, you know, Stets and Bennett. or some moves like that with these day three picks. You're hoping to hit on a long-term backup. So they've got some things.

I will let you out, Mina, soon, before hitting you fast with some important stuff before we go. Do you watch in the Prime Vision, you know, the next-gen stats, prime vision on Thursday nights? I go back and forth. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't. It's annoying when Chicago,

because the camera angle is so low. It's not up high. The New Orleans one's too high. The Chicago one. one's way too low. It's the same as all the all 22 tape that you get. But I wasn't I was enjoying that. But that you're right. When I'm watching that there was not a lot of plays where I thought like oh, what is Bryce Young? What am I getting out of this? Well, not so much that is more like what is Bryce Young going to do? Just like it's not too exciting. What do you think about a broadcast going for a full quarter just having a conversation with Jason Kelsey? Just like not about the game. Yes, that was like, I mean, so that, it was, had a preseason feel, right? Like, this whole game had a preseason feel. But, like, that was so, I don't want these words were disrespectful because it was appropriately respectful of the football that we were watching.

But it was, like, outrageous. Like, they didn't even attempt, they didn't even ask him about, like, things. I mean, they did a tush push at one point. And was he in the booth? No, they just showed their own tish push and talked about it. So he missed the Bears touch push. Which succeeded. I feel like tush pushes now are like fourth down

where everyone just pays attention to when they fail. And like most, it's a fourth down, but most of the time, a lot of the time they work. A lot of teams are good at them, but there's this kind of narrative. Commets failed on one earlier,

but I actually am impressed they didn't give up on it. And they, earlier in the season, and they went back to it. There's this narrative out there that the Eagles are the only team that are doing them well. But like the bills usually succeed.

with it um i did enjoy when the panthers uh converted a fourth in short and al michael's saying brys young didn't have enough tush to push it was a highlight personal highlight for me he can still wind back and throw 90 i was thinking like like all of america would have been totally fine if just Kelsey stayed there and like kirk was like i'll see you i'm going to go back to college just full time i know you can't talk about that that's one of you that i think watching bright I struggle hurt him a lot. It did. It hurts me too, man.

He's lovely. Did he go on your show during the combine, the draft at all? No, I've not met him or anything or hurt him. But yes, I'm rooting for him. It's not too late. And then finally, like, coming out of half that, I've never seen a coach do this. And by, like, Eber Fluse would be under so much more heat

if anyone cared about the bears because the way he answers questions in press conferences, insane. There's like a Abbott and Costello routine. I wanted to, I meant to send it to you about him talking about how how Fields was out, but that he was listed as doubtful. And he just, he can never answer questions, right? He's like Arthur Smith, but it's not a bit. I don't know. Like he just does, he's really bad with the media. But I love that he came out of halftime. He's the first ever coach on Amazon or on like a prime time game that he was trying to sell the listeners to stay watching. And he said he said he had something up his sleeve for the second half.

What do you think was up his sleeve? I did not see anything that was up his sleeve. The touch push, the combat tush push was a second half, right? I know. Okay, is that it? That is it. It had to have been something else. I was thinking an onside kick or some sort of trick play.

That's it. I was, so usually at the halftime with Kaylee Hartung, the coaches look so mad. Except for Todd Bowles, who has that, like, beatific smile that I love so much. It's like my favorite thing. Top Bowles is smiling. But he was like having a grant. I mean, he looked like a coach who. well there are high stakes because as you died discussed his seat is probably one of the hottest in the NFL

but he he looked like he was in zero fear of losing that game and he proved to be correct yeah I mean I think it felt good he was like wow we're better than this team like this is great I don't know what it's like to go out there and feel totally confident that we can win this game even playing things very close to the best every time they cut to Frank Reich I felt so bad for him. The look on his face. I mean, different coaches in different crappy situations

and losing, I have different levels of sympathy for, and I don't know why, watching him. You can feel the pain. If you're an empath, and you are, Mina, you see it and he doesn't hide it. You can feel it all. It's coming through the screen.

He looks like a mom and pop owner who knows he's about to fire all of his employees because of the recession but he doesn't want to he's like trying to keep a brave face on it's a rough look he he looks like a coach that knows that he's coaching a team that was put together by a GM who was hired halfway through the last regime Matt Rule like fitter showed up halfway through and then um wasn't hired by that GM because the owner made the hire and couldn't necessarily pick the quarterback

that he just took. That's the type of coach that he looked at. That's of all the guys we mentioned, Fitterer, his tush should be hot. This is a record for saying tush. He should be very hot right now. Although if you fire the GM, is that an immediate admission

that your quarterback was a bad pick? Is that like a psychological dagger? Right. Well, and you're, you know, your colleague, Adam Schaefter reported how, you know, or tweeted out a few weeks before the draft that, you know, Reich was, was not necessarily for Bryce Young and that David Tepper was. And so none of it might be the GMs thing. This has been a bad owner syndrome for like five or six years stretch for Carolina.

And I don't want to leave Panthers fans on a bummer, you know, but that's where we are. It was a Thursday night bummer, but a treat to spend it with you. Meena, no one loves Ball more than you of anyone I know. So if anyone was going to join me on this one, because you would need someone that really loves Ball. It was you. It was a pleasure. Thanks. I'm glad you're back.

Everyone should check out the Mina Kime Show featuring Lenny. She's doing twice a week right out of the gate. Twice a week. Featuring Lenny, featuring Greg. That's true. Me this week. We will be back here on Sunday. for a big week

10 recap. Until then, heed the call.