NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Bears Up, Lions Down

Episode Date: May 11, 2016

A room full of heroes -- Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Chris Wesseling and Marc Sessler – discuss the latest news from the NFL, including Julian Edelman undergoing foot surgery and if the Raiders are a legit candidate to relocate to Las Vegas. Plus, the heroes break down the Bears and Lions rosters and debate why the Bears are trending upward while the Lions aren’t.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Damashek here. Make sure you check out the new episode as a Dave Damashick football program. Ike-Kale and Maurice Jones for handsome Hank and I conduct a game of throne's craft. We also are talking about running backs. Sam Bradford and Beyond.

Check us out iTunes NFL.com slash podcasts. The Around the NFL podcast. Call the fight. It's the best podcast around. Welcome back. to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis, and I'm joined by a room filled with heroes. Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosenthal.

What's up, boys? Hey, Dan. I love it. I agree with that. Matt Money Smith, with the money drop there, is the best pod. His opinion, too, and he's close friends with quite a few other podcasters around here. Yeah, and the former manager of the Irish alt-rock group, the Cranberries. So fit that into the narrative as well somehow, if you must.

That's an amazing career. I mean, it's taken him a long time, I would say, to surpass that. That's an amazing achievement. What money was the manager of the cranberries? By the way, money should come in to do an episode with us. I've asked him several times. He has an afternoon. He's very busy.

He's very busy. Radio show around when we tapes. Great show, too. When you have a voice that sounds like the offspring of Tom Brokew, your career is made for you. He does have Golden Pipes. Good show today. Zombie. The worst thing.

The worst song in human creation. I used to. That was better than old Dolores did it. My favorite singing voice is Wes. I love when Wes sings. With the tanks and their bombs. Wes's pitch and tone is unbeatable. But hearing Greg drop the zombie there.

Former frontman for Delaware. Yeah, well, that's true. You're bringing out those chops that are so famous. And again, if you do have any. Any history of Delaware, which was Greg's prog goth rock band in the late 90s? Not true. When we had the meetup, people thought that was really a true thing that I was in a goth band. It was true. It was not a goth band.

You've seen the images of you were dressing like a goth. You take on the ivories as you sing about doom and gloom in suburban Massachusetts light. We remember this. But what we need is actual audio footage of your career. So if anyone, and I know there are people that listen to this show that have ties to Greg from back home, please reach out to us. Hit me up at Twitter. We will make sure to make it worth your while. Even Greg's family.

I mean, various members of your family listen to this show. They've got the goods. They definitely don't have the good tower. They don't have photos of you when you were a youth. But what we're looking for now is actual. It's unusual. They definitely have a body. The master recordings, if you will.

They have a youth. You know how Prince had the vault that has. has all his recordings that were unreleased. Somewhere in Martha's Vineyard, there's a vault. A more valuable vault than the Prince vault. Yes. That has all of Delaware's recordings. Yes or no, Greg?

That could not be less true. I barely had it. They definitely never heard it then, much less now. Okay. All right. Today's show is a good one. We, uh... Pre-show grade?

Pre-show grade B-plus. Of course. We exceeded the pre-show grade on Monday show, I thought, and some of the listeners that got back to us believe so as well so we could what you don't want to do west is remember the tell you a little story west about don't go vince young dream team on me the 2011 philadelphia eagles uh known as the dream team you don't put yourself in an a plus how did i know where you're going because we don't want a dream team ourselves well we could go b minus you could go even lower

yeah but but i believe in the show see that's why b plus is a nice place for us you found a good I would love to get Vince Young on the show, by the way. Imagine if he was just, like, regularly a part of the show, like 80 times a year. I bet Gil Brandt, who works at the NFL, of course, could hook that up. He once called me up. Gil Brandt, when I was working for the NFL out of my apartment in New York, said, Hey, Greg, would you like to talk to Vince Young? And Vince Young was doing a workout that day for NFL teams.

He was trying to make a comeback. And I said, sure. And this all happened within 15 seconds, no warning. And he hands the phone to Vince Young. And I was on the phone with Vince Young. You can find this article somewhere in the NFL.com archives. In the article, did you get into how it all happened? I think I did.

I think I mentioned. I feel like it would be a missed opportunity if you didn't. Okay, today's show, we are going to get into the news around the NFL. That's why I recall the around the NFL podcast. Also, today is a big NFC North Day. So if you're a fan of the other divisions in football, shut off your podcast after the news because we're not going to be talking about anybody else. That's how you sell it.

But the NFC North, I am warning you with peace and love to turn off this podcast after the news if you are expecting anything else other than NFC North power bombs. I guess we're going to get into it because Greg Rosenthal wrote a killer piece, part of our series that will be rolling out over the next few weeks, projected starters for the NFC North headline Bears on the rise and that didn't sit well with everyone in the NFC North so we're going to get into that

Greg's starting some heat very polarizing day for Greg Rosenthal and you know West you know as well as I do and Mark obviously as well Greg's always starting heat whether he's always honking in the news honking you could hear Greg doesn't sit near us exactly in the newsroom but we could always hear him

he was honking to somebody right before we came up for the podcast Tyler Dragon who's honking about I think the thunder not having a chance in the playoffs Well, after game one, yeah, he said they had no chance, and I tried to get a sandwich prop that they would win at least two or three games. That's the ideal Greg proposition. Yeah. It's the ideal Greg Target.

Yeah. So, yeah, you're honk, bro. You honk. It's okay. We like you. Just like... True or false. This morning, a woman called me the strong and silent type in our newsroom.

That is true. That's all. I respect my case. Greg Rosenthal, a regular John Wayne. First timer to the newsroom, someone that's embedded in our newsroom? Someone you know. So that's the show for today. Behind the glass, there he is.

Irishman. What's up, bud? Nothing much. I'm thinking about we need to go out to karaoke to see what Greg really has going behind those pipes. Not much. Well, Greg's more, yeah. Do some Wu-Tang, maybe. You don't have to have a beautifully, classically trained voice to have a great rock singer's voice.

And that's what Delaware was about. It was kind of a little grungy, a little, you know, kind of, It was almost the very nature of alternative music was what Delaware was. Well, also telling that the band never existed beyond the milieu of middle school. Possibly an issue with talent. That's what it means. Really? Well, agree to disagree.

We don't typically do drops from an anchorman in 2016. However, that is something we will. get into a little bit later, a Detroit Lions haymaker throne via social media at Greg Rosenthal that we will get into a little bit later. That's called a tease in the business. But let's start. Mark's got the vapors over here. Oh, no, again? No, I'm doing it. I'm done all right. You look a little pale, too. I, uh, you know, I'm like 20 minutes out of the dentist's chair. This is a little bit bizarre. And you said you haven't eaten since last night, which is also bizarre. par for the course.

Let's start with Melvin Gordon, the Chargers running back, who not only had a tough rookie season, but also began Spice Rack's descent into madness. So it's really a notable player in NFL history. A lot of people are thinking, you know, the former first round pick has a chance to bounce back in year two. However, it was revealed on Tuesday that Gordon underwent micro fracture knee surgery this offseason,

this according to Michael Galkin of the Union Tribune in San Diego. He underwent the procedure in January and was given a recovery timetable of four to six months. He does not anticipate being limited in practices, believes he'll be ready for training camp, hurt himself in a December 20th game, so his season was already going in a bad direction when this injury occurred,

and then had this to say, I'm getting better, I'm getting better, I'm not where I want to be, but I think I'm ahead of schedule. I'm sprinting pretty well. I'm cutting West after a very tough first year where the word bus started to get throwing around. This is literally like one of the last things you want to hear about a young running back. Yeah, it is.

And there are different degrees of microfracture. Some of them are very invasive and can alter a career. And others, as we've seen with guys like Marcus Koolstun, who's had several micro fractures. And most recently, Travis Kelsey, it hasn't. taking any speed or cutting ability away from Kelsey who had it after his rookie season. So it's hard to tell how this will affect Melvin Gordon in 2016 and going forward. Vante's perfect, too, had it.

I mean, but it's much more of a case-by-case depending on the player's physical makeup. It seems than other types of surgeries. Their GM, Tom Telesco said each one is different. And they're trying to make the case. And it was presented in this article that this was a very low-impact. surgery compared to other micro fractures. Although you always hear that. There's really no way to tell until they're on the field.

But yeah, what a nightmare for. This injury didn't really, wasn't the cause of his disappointing rookie season. The injury happened December 20th, you know, very late in the season. So I think the cause of his rookie season was he hesitated at the line of scrimmage too often. You know, I think he got better at that, though. I went and watched for that redrafting the running backs. I don't think he was bad down the stretch at all. He wasn't amazing, but he was a good receiver.

I don't think he was hesitant. That offensive line was so bad. He had so many negative five-yard runs where he had nothing that he could possibly do that I give him a little bit of a pass for that. I was hopeful he was going to get a lot better this year. On the plus side, he also had a couple instances where he blast off like a 20-yarder.

Yeah, you could see the attributes that the Chargers were excited about occasionally. You could see the burst and you could see the receiving ability. And you could see they didn't add any running backs this offseason. So that shows a little. We're really just trying to, you know, encourage, keep Spice rack above water here. Redemption tour. Well, above ground.

Because the ground is fair. Things were getting a little dark last time. Just the case anyone's wondering, no decision has been made about Spice Rock whether he will be allowed back on the program after his unhinged performance last week. Moving on, Julian Edelman, the Patriots wide receiver really has become, you know, not counting gronk, of course, Tom Brady's favorite target. and the guy delivers year after year. However, injuries continue to haunt the wide-out. He recently underwent minor surgery, it was deemed. Hey, it's always minor surgery when it's not you, right, guys?

On his left foot to reinsert a screw from a past procedure, a source informed of the situation told NFL media insider Ian Rappaport, Edelman was spotted wearing a protective boot at the Patriots facility on Wednesday. However, Greg, he is on track to return. for training camp there is absolutely nothing to worry about is there there is we always say on track to return for training camp i mean that's there's no there's no rules based on injury reporting in the off season he broke the foot in november right he not good had a surgery then they said after the season that he would not need a second surgery yeah and here you are in may getting a second

surgery yeah they wish they did it four months ago clearly the pain didn't go away he's had uh foot problems before. I believe he missed most of her half the 2012 season with a foot injury. So you don't want your number one receiver with a foot injury. That's bad business. Storm clouds. The Patriots love these small receivers who do slants and crossing routes because

they fit with what Tom Brady does. But small wide receivers are also injury prone. This is the flute, how the flute keeps powering through it. Let's not forget about Chris Hogan. Yes. He's already, essentially, he's already leading the league in Pro Bowl votes right now. You know, it sounds like they're just like,

This guy's going to just go in and set it on fire. I mean, he's like the ultimate test, really. Who said that? Well, no, I just feel that when it comes to Chris Hogan and I, even stuff I've written, because I trust the Patriots so much that when they, you know, stole them away from the bills and quotes, that it's like he's ticketed for the next, you know, shining possession receiver type role for them. And I love it because it will set Rex Ryan's mind and body on fire. He won't know what to do with that.

Area White on Rocket Ride to Success. He's a little more physical We're talking about Rex He is the ultimate test of Hogan If he becomes a 100-catch Pro Bowl guy Literally the Patriots can take Any one of those types of guys

Those scrappy guys And they'll probably have Josh Gordon A month from now Mark once wrote that Bill Belichick Could turn Ann Hathaway Into a thousand-yard running back Is that true? He can

I'd worry about durability issues Ann's got some moves By the way Satellite You're stereotyping a little bit. Chris Hogan's got prototype size. I mean, he's a big receiver. He's an outside.

He's an outside receiver. He is not the same as, I'm not saying he's a great player. You're right. He's not the same profile as Edelman and Amandolin. He's like basically Megatron when you compare. He's not nearly as quick as Adam and Dolan. Exactly.

That's what I mean. But to Chris's point, it's how they use receivers too. Now, I'm not kidding. I could see them getting Josh Gordon 40, 50 days from now, and everything changes in New England. They do have some. Mark's greatest fear.

It's not a fear. Any prominent Brown leaves a team in acrimony and becomes a whole thing. It makes sense for them, and it's going to happen. It would. It doesn't happen a lot. Because right now. You feel like you act like it happens all the time. There's not a lot of Chris Carter's.

It's going to happen. To Greg's benefit. If Eddowman missed week one, their starting receivers are what, Hogan. Amandola. Amandola and Malcolm Mitchell. What? I don't know. with an untested quarterback with no experience behind center.

They'll be running two wide outsets with Martellus Bennett. There you go. I can't wait to watch that. Arizona. Three wide outsets. Mike Deon Lewis out wide. The Oakland, let's move on, guys. The Oakland Raiders, they're looking to get a new stadium, and you can't blame them.

It's a dump up there. What is it? What is the name of that facility? Have you guys been there? It's now the Oco.O.co.O.co. It used to be Oakland Alameda. I can confirm from firsthand experience that it is, I mean, it's good if you're a Raiders. fan and you just like chaos but as a visiting as a fan of a visiting team in the year 2016 there is a baseball

infield running through a football stadium right and you guys ever go to an aes game though a thoroughly pleasant experience love like it's not a great stadium but it was like a lot of fun i went there by myself get in for like six bucks on a drive back to the east coast were you in a strawberry truck i was just by myself and a uh i think was a neat old beat up nissons central like sounds suspicious mid 90s fun fact there will never be a batting champion in Oakland because they have so much foul ground. It's not built for baseball or football. True.

And they have a sewage break like every three years. The whole place needs to be raised. Anyway, so Raiders owner Mark Davis, he's poking around. He couldn't get to L.A. So now he's looking at Vegas, which is wildly intriguing as an idea. He met with the Southern Nevada Tourism Infrastructure Committee. Those guys know how to party on April 28th and pledged $500 million towards the construction of a $1.4 billion $65,000-seat dome stadium, you know, a lot now, the cynic, or perhaps a person

that knows how this type of business works, building stadiums and professional sports will say that Vegas is being played for leverage as Al Davis tries to get a new facility, either where he is now in Oakland or maybe, I don't know, San Diego, maybe L.A. However, the mayor of Vegas does not believe so. Carolyn Goodman had this to say. Mark Davis has assured us that Las Vegas is not getting played in a Raider Stadium deal. I know we will have a team. There's a lot of buzzer on this.

Is this something that might actually happen? I don't know. I think so. I think it has a legit chance. When they made that last announcement and pledged the money and if they can get the local support to match it, like it sounded like, okay, this is a real possibility. and I don't know if it's snuck up on the NFL or not, but I think it's moved a little quicker than the NFL expected.

But the NFL seems pretty open to it. I mean, the NFL has not shot it down. And Jerry Jones today, or I believe Tuesday, said, you know, I think Vegas is one of the crown jewel communities in the U.S. And he's all for moving the team. West doesn't agree with that. The worst city in the entire country. Well, I think there's a legitimate concern of is there a local fan base

and definitely is there a big media market because it's an ever-shifting fan base. Right, it's a small media market. It's kind of like concerts there. If you're not a huge band, don't do well because there's not a lot of people that just live there that are going to concert. There's a community, though.

Number one, could you pick a better franchise for Las Vegas than the Raiders? And people from L.A., which has a huge Raiders fan base, go to Vegas at the first notice on Friday. Oh, right, people going to Vegas, drive right over. It couldn't be an easier drive, and you can make it a whole weekend. out of it. You've got a built-in West Coast fan base that could get there easily. And I will, I'll give Mark Davis

a little credit here, too, because this is like, this is totally something Papa would do because you know the NFL... Something Papa did. Oakland's seen this before. Al Davis asked for a stadium. They wouldn't give it to him, so he went to L.A. But the idea specifically of Vegas, which is kind of a taboo type of

market for any professional sports outfit that the Raiders say, if you won't give us a place in L.A., we're going to the one city that gives you the most creeps. Vegas. Well, you know the old... Like the old football movies where they couldn't get NFL licensing so they'd have these wacky teams.

Like any given Sunday, for instance, these insane teams from bizarre cities. The Vegas Raiders just feels like something from a video game or a movie that didn't get NFL licensing, but I could warm up to it. And everyone, you know, the number one thing you think about,

okay, well, there's gambling there, that's a problem. Well, all the NFL tries to do is play more and more games in London. And everyone says, oh, we're got to move a team to London. And like compared to, compared to Vegas, well, maybe not compared to Vegas. But, you know, sports betting could not be more popular and easier to do in London and more just not worried about as an evil of society.

And they don't seem to have a problem with that. So why not? Maybe they're. London isn't a monument to humanity's worst instincts like Las Vegas. Oh, I'm saying is the NFL. This is not as bad. If you're from the UK, we have a sizable UK audience, that is Chris Wessling's opinion. I do not find Vegas to be that terrible place.

I will never go there again. I feel like after about two days there, I need like a shower and I got to get out of that place. That's what it's for. It's not a place you go for a week. Anybody that wants to go to Vegas for the first time, you don't go for a long time. Yeah, you see what condition he was in last time.

That is exactly right. Case study. Wait, I thought you were in the pro spice camp. I see a lot of things to like about spice rack. No, but I would not say that moving to Vegas is something that spice rack is selling as an overall holistic move based on his appearance. Spicerack in Vegas is like documentary where the guy only eats fast food for a month

and you see what happens to him. That's Spicerack's life in Vegas. Mentally, emotionally. Chris knows him. Bankrupt. He told me he loved it there. Before everything went to hell in our relationship, we were hanging out atop a roof in Vegas under the sun

and by the pool, he said that that place sustained him in a great way. You loved it. Well, we're all rooting for him except probably one or two people. You know, you're playing both sides of the fence like we're playing, go get my lunch. We're all rooting for me. Yeah, you know, you keep throwing these one or two people under the bus with some very shaky groundwork.

The straddler. Throwing it out there. Hey. Hey, by the way, Chip Kelly got, you know, canned in Philly. As we know, he ended up resurfacing with the 49ers. He was known, of course, as the Gene. in many circles for his early work with Philly and the idea that he was revolutionizing the game. You didn't hear that as much as the Eagles started to go into decline before he was let go.

But now the genius tag is back, at least according to Garrett Selik, the tight end for the Niners, who described that the team's offense is much different in OTAs. It's a lot quicker, he said. We have hand signals. So you can't have 15 words. through hand signals, stuff like that. It's got to be boom, boom, boom. So when you get less verbiage, it's easier to remember.

It's kind of genius. The genius is back. People buying in. Are you? No, of course. I never did. I was never in on the genius. It always felt like a media construct that he was somebody that was going to see,

that see something no one else could see. He was just another failed college coach. Well, for any new listeners, famously and sarcastically every time he came up. Did call him the genius. I did. We had a hallelujah drop or something that happened. Yeah, we were looking for that drop,

me and the Irishman before the show, but it seems to be lost to history. Our good friend and hero, Colleen Wolfe, I believe, today, said that she would blow her brains out if anyone calls Chip a genius. That was a private text, but, yeah. Not anymore. It seems unfortunate. It seems unfortunate for her to do that in the same week.

She's hosting HQ again on Friday. Yeah, she's doing a great job on the network side. I would like to range a head-to-head sit down between Garrett Selik and Heath Evans and just see Heath froth at the mouth when Garrett mentions that Chip Kelly is a genius. Well, how about the fact, okay, Garrett Selick's brother played for Chip Kelly, so the family likes him. I think Brent Selick's been public liking him. And you're knocking him like, oh, you know, he was a failed ex-college coach.

He was 10 and 6, 2 10 and 6es and 1, 7, and 9. So he has a winning record as an NFL head coach. He came in with offensive reputation. They finished 2nd and yards, 5th in yards, top 4 in points, 2 out of the 3 years. I mean, it's not like he was a failed coach. He was a middle of the road. It was a little better than middle of the road if you want to be critical. It was a failed personnel guy, okay?

Yeah, that's fair. And the team suffered, and it should be noted that it's not just strategy. A lot of the teams seem to despise the guy as well. something that probably is going to continue in San Francisco, and frankly, wherever he goes. So he needs to change a lot of his ways. Take a page on the Tom Coughlin book who learned how to get players to not hate him so much. That seems to be his biggest challenge. Step away from the personnel side, just focus on strategy and get people not to think you're such a douche.

And to be fair, I mean, a lot of coaches in their first job, that's probably more of the area to learn and grow in than the strategy. I don't think that there's anyone that questions that Chip Kelly can't put together a comprehensively intriguing offense. He can. But it was his defensive players who were out in the field for more than any other defense in the league that struggled with that concept. And, you know, people thought that Bill Belichick, after he left Cleveland, was removed from Cleveland, and then didn't take that Jets job. I'll never forget. We both lived on the East Coast.

He did take the job. Well, he took it. But what happened over that 24-hour period, people thought Bill Belichick, if you listen to FAA and Mike in the a mad dog, that Bill Belichick was a nutbag. They just thought that he had completely melted down and lost it as a human being, and he was viewed as someone that was anti-player, that players didn't like. So the question is, can Chip Kelly fix that part of his game? Bill Belichick also resigned on a cocktail napkin.

It was crazy, and I will never forgive you, Bill. Well, it worked out all right for him. Chip is going to have to be a genius, though. So even if he does learn how to deal with his players better, and be a leader as a coach better. His wide receivers are still Tori Smith, Quentin Patton, Bruce Ellington, and some undrafted guys we don't really know.

And his quarterback is either Blaine Gabbard or Colin Kaepernick. I mean, that is the weakest quarterback, wide receiver group in the league. One question for the scientist, and Dan, you can chime in here too. Is Selik concerned about, you know, getting pushed by fifth string tight end Geron Ham?

Oh, that is a... Maybe you've got to get some good press out there and you've got to say some nice things about your coach. Ham bone. I've got nothing to say about the 49ers tight ends or anything else about their offense. Thank you. So let's move on.

That's what's happening in the news. And now what you've all been late waiting for. Again, turn off the fucking podcast if you're not interested in the NFC North. Such a bad boy, Dan, when you break out the words. Because now... I mean, talk about jumping up on the masculinity ranking. Wow.

Oh, now we have masculinity right now. This is getting hard to track. No, but honestly, now it's time to talk about the NFC North. And Greg Rosenthal, a lot of people, sometimes I think it's easy for this group to forget about it because we work with Greg on a day-to-day basis. But Greg, the Roto World founder, Brick by Brick. That's not true. Both in terms of HTMLL and also.

So to physically built the building where the young rhodo world scribes... That's high up in the masculinity rank. Physically building the building. Would craft their blurbs. Guy knows his stuff. Greg. The boss. That's why he got the name of the boss.

That's why he is the boss. And he went through each of the teams in the NFC North and broke down the rosters. And we'll start with the drama here. Because after it was posted on the around the NFL Twitter account, which you could follow us at around the NFL. I hope you're following us by now. Greg, it was posted, it was linked out, and what happened was the Chicago Bears,

Greg, very complimentary towards the Bears roster, immediately respond to Greg and the world with a GIF or GIF, depending on what you want to call it, of Tom Cruise from Top Gun, putting on his sunglasses and smiling. So they were pleased with what Greg wrote about the Bears. The Lions, however, not so much. The Lions, they follow up with a gif of Ron Burgundy.

Do we still have that, Brandon? Yes, sir. That's what it means. Really? Well, agree to disagree. They said that, you know, listen, Greg's got a problem. And then Eric Ebron of the Lions follows in and quote retweets Greg's tweet that said, The Lions roster looks worse, the more you look at it.

And then Ebron writes, Twitter is to voice your opinions. We will make you eat those ones you choose. Greg, let's start there then. Before we get into the Bears, let's get into the lines. First of all, your heat with Eric Ebron, former first round pick tight end. Address it. No heat. No heat.

I did enjoy. Well, that's true. I did enjoy the immediate tweet back to him that said you're better at tweeting than you are at catching passes. Wow. But that was not. Did you write that? No, I did not. He did not either.

It's aggressive. But, no, I thought Ebron, if he's going to, you know, I like, you know, he's sticking up for his roster. He did it in a relatively professional, respectful way. He wasn't coming at me. The tweet that really annoyed the Lions and got them going said the Lions roster is worse, the more you look at it. Because you think about the Lions and you think, wow, okay, they got some big-name players on offense with Stafford and Golden Tate and Marvin Jones, not bad, and E-Bron's all right.

They have some big-time players on defense, Ansa, Levy, if he's healthy, Darius Slay. But when you start looking past that a little bit, some of their positions are terrible. And I think if you go through their position groups, tell me the position group on the Lions that's better than average. Because their receivers fall off an absolute cliff after their two solid starters. Abdullah and Riddick is not above-average running back group. And then when you get to defense, Devin Taylor, who's never been a start. is a starter. They have no depth behind him whatsoever. Nevin Lawson is their number two cornerback and nothing behind him. Safety, they're hoping either Raphael Bush or a fourth round

pick is going to start there. They just have big time holes, like craters where they may be among the league worst at their positions. Nevin Lawson sounds like a butler. Right. And that's their number two cornerback. With all due respect, you mentioned the wide receiver core is week after one, two. Jeremy Curley is literally the one player John Idzik ever gave a contract to with the Jets. So that has to stand for something, right? Then as soon as he gave him that contract, the Jets couldn't wait to replace him. I used to like Curley, so maybe he could make a comeback, but he did not look like himself

the last. Your point is well taken. There is no above average position group on this roster, and I know Lions fans are hanging on Matthew Stafford's improvement down the stretch under Cooter Time! But this, I mean, Matthew Stanford is the most unpredictable quarterback. the NFL. On top of it. Who knows which version you're going to get next year? Yeah, and I think it's a stretch to say that it's easy to believe in Jim Caldwell's ability

to take what they have and make so much more out of it. That didn't happen last year. And, I mean, it's just systematic on Twitter that you go do research. I think what you tweeted, anyone that's been doing the homework says, yeah, he's right. The bears have improved. The lions are, you know, potentially dirt-knat material. And then you got these team Twitter sites, which could not be more team. tedious with their gift thing. I mean, dating back to last season, it is one of the most ponderous trends that we must deal with with our eyeballs staring at Twitter is every single team site attacking each other

or anyone that doesn't fall in line with their mantra and going after them with these clips. Enough. No one else think it's funny how much Mark cares about the team sites and the gyps? Well, I do. Absolutely. They are annoying. I thought I sensed from you. too, Wes, as Dan is giving the GIF recap.

I mean, you're not a big fan of the GIFs in general from the teams, this trend. I think you're on, you're on Mark's side. I'm on Mark's side. If you're not, I don't know who you are. Mark has a visceral reaction to it. I just think it's kind of laughing. It is highly smarmy, and it is very infrequently edgy or funny. There was actually another.

The Lions actually double-jiffed me. Rare move. They also did one where an old Batman is scratching his chin. Batman cartoon. That's the one I saw. say you know what it is too ultimately it's a shortcut it's and it's gotten to the point where now twitter actually offers thousands of jiffs for people to choose from instead of having to come up with something cutting or witty or just expressing yourself through word you just throw up a shot

of a 1960s batman cartoon stroking his chin and you just earn your paycheck let's go get let's go to the huddle and get a get a muffin it's good job plainly annoying it's because the purpose isn't To communicate, the purpose is to play a game in which you're keeping track of how many retweets you can get. Sometimes they're funny, though. They did get a lot, though, sometimes. They did get a lot. And to your point, Dan. Yes.

Okay. Now, you're right. The Giff, sometimes it's a short. You just pointed to Estelle Getty putting on sunglasses. That's funny at all times. I love Golden Girls. That one was funny. But you're pointing out the GIF, you know, it's kind of easy.

They got, you know, 500 retweets off of this, blah, blah, blah. Why couldn't they come up with something clever? Because I'll accept it if it's clever. And you know what? Carol Shelby, a Lions fan, quickly came up with something clever. I say the Lions roster looks worse, the more you look at it. He responds kind of like your sideburns. I like that.

That's good. That's a man named Carol, huh? That's his problem. But anyway, let me just say, let's get back to the roster a second. And I will now make the case for the Lions' offense. Matthew Stafford, 28 years old. Now has become an Iron Man, sneaky Iron Man out of nowhere the last five years. you know, had a 5,000-yard season.

Okay, Megatron is there. But we all know his talent that exists. Amir Abdullah. He's like the 13th best quarterback. He's a little better. Okay, maybe he could flex up the top 10, 11. Amir Abdullah, we know the talent that he has. If he puts it together, he could be a game-changing type playmaker.

Golden Tate, we know that he's a stud. Marvin Jones, I like that signing more than other people. I think he could be a really good number two. T.J. Jones don't know a ton about. Eric Ebron, two years ago, was supposed to be the best young tight-end in the draft class, it has not come together for young Eric yet, but maybe with Megatron out of the picture, they find a role for him and he starts catching the ball.

There are some players here that it's something to go to the right correction. He makes some plays, Ebron. The only thing about that entire screed in which I actually believed was that Amir Abdullah can become a good running bet. You don't believe Golden Tate's a great wide receiver? No, I don't believe he's a stud. No, he's a borderline number two, number one. He's a really good number two.

Look, those starters, I don't have a huge problem with their skill position players in general, although the cliff at wide receiver is massive. It's more the lines that this used to be a strength for their team. Now you're drafting a first round pick. We'll see if the offensive line is good. But at defensive end, it's ANSA and nothing. At defensive tackle, it's a bunch of guys who are probably league average or solid. At linebacker and safety and quarterback, it's just a very thin team.

You can see a lot of teams scored. I totally agree on paper, but it was last year at this time that we were looking at like Carolina's offense and saying, or once the Kelvin Benjamin injury happened, they're done, this thing is going to be cooked. And then you look at what Cam Newton produced last season, not a single person saw that coming. A lot can change. Some of these players we don't know about could develop. My whole thing with the lines, of course they could win seven or eight games.

But my point is that they're going to have to overachieve a little bit to win seven or eight games and that the ceiling for them is pretty low. And to me, they look more like a six-win, five-or-six-win type of team. And to Greg's point, the Panthers build through their lines. Yeah. I mean, their strength is their front seven and a pretty good offensive line. And the Lions, that's their biggest weakness. They've tried.

I mean, they have Warford, Tomlinson, Decker. Those are three guys they took pretty high. So there's potential for the offensive line to be good if those guys all play to their best. And now let's turn our focus to the other team we're going to talk about today. And it is the Chicago Bears, because to you, Greg, as you were putting together this piece on NFL.com, you saw

the Bears is almost like the what would you call it, the double negative or the team that's the opposite of what the inverse of what the lions are right now. The team that the more you look at the lions, the worst they look at the bears, it's the opposite. Well, Wes has been honking about this for a while

and the more I thought about, the more he's right. I mean, I'm putting together their starting lineups. I did not include Leonard Floyd, their number one pick. yet because that position is deep. Lamar Houston and Pernel McPhee. I didn't include their third round pick who they like a lot who's going to get involved.

They're the opposite of the lions in that. I think they have a lot of depth at a lot of positions where they can survive an injury, where they can rotate their defensive line. Now they have Treveithon and Drell Freeman. They have a bad secondary. I'm not. That's the weakness.

I mean, they're not a perfect team. It's a bad secondary. You've got to love that one, two, three wide receiver combination. They just got some things going on. Harold Jones Quarley at safety day. I sometimes do sleep on it. Yeah, that was the one. That's why I like doing these exercises just to find out about these teams.

And that was someone I barely knew existed and is apparently the slight favorite to start. Quite an athlete. I think in another life, I was playing stickball in Queens in the 1930s and Eddie Goldman was my teammate. he's a good player though that's a good example that's a good example of what the bears are doing well that he's a young ascending player you could see getting better you mentioned their secondary as the fatal flaw i look at their offensive line and it would not surprise me if it ends up being the worst in the entire league whoa really yes Kyle long is a pro bowl player the other four tell me what's tell me what's not awful about them well Cody white hair we don't know he's a

they draft so you got a rookie offensive lineman how often and does that turn out to be a good thing? They signed a couple veterans that have played a lot, Mani Ramirez, Ted Lawson, to get a little bit. They signed a bunch of veterans that other teams didn't want. I mean, Bobby Massey, got rid of. Yeah, Bobby Massey, Charles. Horanis Grisou has to face competition for his center job this year.

This offensive line, Charles Leno is your left tackle. That's the worst left tackle in the NFL. Yeah, Conan, I think I'm going to keep the job, actually. Yeah, that's a concern. This could be a bruised. offensive line. Yeah, it's not a perfect team. I was more excited about the defense

and the fact that they overachieve last year, but you're right. Basically, Wes, is taking your entire, like, sky high level of enthusiasm and setting it up. No, Wes, I think, and I are on the total same page. I don't see them much different than the Lions. I like their wide receiver core in front seven.

There's nothing else about the Bears I like, especially their quarterback who's a competitive disadvantage. Well, that's where... I like their defense coordinator. That's where we disagree. Well, not the defense coordinator. I'm with you on Fandio. You stand throughout history on the side of

Jay Cutler and see who's right in the end. Do we feel like, I mean... He's just okay, that's all I'm saying. He's okay. You lose Adam Gase. I think that he helped a lot of those players overachieve last year, and I'm not a huge Dowell Loggins guy, so let's see how that works. Coordinator Corner with Mark Sess.

No, I just, you know what? Daryl Loggins. Dowell Loggins, you know what? I'm not going to take up 10 minutes of the show, but he's got a few issues on his resume if you want to look at his time in Cleveland. I would love to hear Mark Sessler 10 minutes on Dowell Loggins. Like, that might be the best 10 minutes of the show since you coming up with 32 words to describe the Cowboys defense. One thing about Loggins, if you're trying to keep Cutler happy and it seemed like he was last year, they are buds.

They're very tight. And when Loggins was in Tennessee, there was all that rumbling about them wanting to trade for Cutler and run what they have now, which is a smash mouth, beat you up offense, the myth of all myths until we see it. But Cutler and Loggins, they're tight. Cutler played well last year. Like Cutler was a better quarterback. No, he played very mediocre and everyone acted like it was well. because it's Jake Cutler, and the expectations are so freaking low that if he has a decent season where the passer rating is almost to Brian Hoyer level,

then it's a good season for Jay Cutler. Give me a break. Passer rating was 92. Andrew Luck. Yeah, same is Brian Hoyer. Andrew Luck. By the way, the league average was like 89. No, the league average was 91.8, I believe.

So can you make the argument that he's an average or maybe a tick above average quarterback? He's an average quarterback. But not a team destroyer. Well, he's a coach destroyer. Look at his history. What is the quarterback? I mean, now it's, if it's 90 or whatever for the average, when we were growing up, Wes and I back in the Kennedy administration.

Yeah, I mean, it was much, much lower. I don't see these two teams as different. I'm just, I know you're going to come at us with an age shot, so I cut you off at the pass. Not nearly that old. Got to get some food in Mark's belly. Yeah, it is. I mean, it does come up a lot, though,

just the generation divide between the cousins. Which is absurd because you guys are like five years younger than us. Dan has more gray hair than all of us. put together it pops up though it pops up i mean you played stratomatic that was you know a little before a time that was kind of the cutoff the old stratomatic intellectual game for young people my whole thing by the way how can you imagine that young baby boomers like west and mark mark does have a stratomatic long form coming up yeah that was i was trying to let's see if i was trying to set him up to her a little talk about a metrics gold mine how will the team

sites respond to that. They'll have to go look up to figure what it is first. Was this like a subversive exercise to stick it to the team sites? No. That would be weird. I'd like to come up. I'll come up with a few of those. That would be a lot of work for a little response. Wow. Well, we look forward to it. And we'll definitely talk about it on the podcast. When it

lands, Mark's a stratomatic banger. Any final thoughts about, we don't really have time to get into the other teams in the NFC North, but there will be plenty of time. The Packers fans are very on We'll talk to them. Hang in there, guys. Let's talk about them next time.

I do have a final thought. My thought is not that these two teams are so different. It's that the Bears feel like a team that is ascending. And if I was a fan of, I think there are some things to get excited about. The Lions feel like an in-between team that has a new GM and a head coach. I think they're set up to underperform a little bit. These are both five to eight-win teams. I just think the Lions are going to be lower.

And then they're going to have a new coach again next year. And then they're changing it all again. Like, I just don't see this Quinn Caldwell Cooter thing last in forever. We did. I mean, we talked about this earlier in the week, or was it last week, I don't remember. Last week when they missed their window. The window that was never really open in the first place closed, and now you lost a generation of talent.

It was the window for the six wild car team. The refs banged them the year that it was open. That's how you end up on the pain rankings. You're one of those teams that you never get your window properly propped open, and now it's closed, and somehow they talk themselves into keeping Jim Caldwell. I mean, you know, it just seems like this is a, organization in transition, whether they know it or not. One huge bonus about what we've just done here,

and this is a good management by Greg, and it's A-plus management because, you know, Kevin Patrick could not be. There's multiple, you know, IM tweets about how upset he is that the lions get overlooked, blah, blah, blah. And he's right, but we've settled him down. He's back in a good mood. He doesn't even know why yet.

That we just found love to him. That we just buried his team without asking him to talk about it, too. Well, we mentioned them. We didn't say it was going to be. be it's going to be honest he said he agrees with you yeah he yeah i's the number one critic i talk to him separately you know before i wrote wrote any of this kind of smart smart move we got to get kpad on the show yeah i give you a pre-grade show of a minus for your management and you exceeded it wow that's the that's the highest compliment you've ever given to me for my management we got to we got to get patcher on

the show because patcher who is the only salt of the earth as they come and a good guy and a good salty of the earth salty of the earth salty of the earth salty of there than a good football writer. He's found love, as everyone that follows him on Facebook can attest based on his profile pick, him and his little ladybug in an embrace on a beach somewhere. And if you read what she has to write, no, and she seems delightful. And what she has to write is she's plugged in, completely tuned into Patra's crankiness, and she's on board.

I mean, she's made multiple mentions of it, am I wrong? Like, I thought that's just how everyone from... I have a lot of connection with her right now. I've never met her. What is she? No, on Facebook, when she's described an outing with Patra or a photo, and Patra in the photo, she's very happy, and he's got this, like, he's just got a Patra look, and she very, she seems to be on for the entire Patra experience.

I just love this crusty snuggle bug. I gave myself a Facebook suspension until Donald Trump is out of our lives. It might take eight years. Oh, my God. All right. What a depressing note to end then. Yeah, we will be back. uh tomorrow three shows this week uh where we will talk about something uh it's not clear actually

no we did have an idea what we wanted oh we're going to talk about the dalton scale tomorrow we are okay we are so get your thinking caps on uh the annual dalton scale discussion we'll take place tomorrow where we kind of figure out where some of the 10 to 20 area quarterback we need we need to officially rename the dalton scale because we have we'll figure Andy Dalton have. I think it's Dalton scale in perpetuity. Wow. Well, West disagrees.

So we'll have to discuss it. I mean, they don't call the Mendoza line something else now. Well, Alex Smith scale was getting some heat. The Tana scale. Tana scale is a great. Great ring to it. Anyway. Okay.

So we'll be talking about that on Thursday show. So thank you for listening. Until then, this is Dan Hansa, signing off for Quiet Storm. Get some food in that belly. Snuggle Buck. The mailman. The boss, an Irish behind the glass. Till Thursday.

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