NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Bears-Vikings MNF Recap, Frank Reich Fired

Episode Date: November 28, 2023

In a virtual room full of heroes - Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, and Marc Sessler break down the Week 12 Monday Night Football matchup between the Bears and Vikings (01:00). After the break the heroes get you caught up on news from around the league including Frank Reich being fired in Carolina (19:03), injury updates to Myles Garrett and Dorian Thompson-Robinson (34:05), and the not-so-certain future at quarterback for the Giants (47:00).  Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Janique and Gokwe just limped off the field for the Bears. This one is intercepted by Chicago. And Kyler Gordon, Justin Jones, was bobbling it. And Gordon came away with it. really good but they finally you let a team hang around long enough they're going to put a drive together and put themselves back in the game Gordon went back to the sideline briskers over there to end zone hockinson touchdown they're going to let it tick down 30 yard try in essence to win it

for cairo Santos play clock at four good snap good hold good kick bears are back on top with 10 seconds to go. The bear stayed on top in a 12-10 win over the Vikings in a pretty hideous Monday night football game that, you know, provided just enough entertainment value in the back end to save us all

from truly having an agonizing Monday. And it is the Vikings, the team of around the NFL now looking within, we would imagine after losing an unloosable game to a Chicago team that was doing everything they could to keep Minnesota in playoff position. And yet here we are. Dan Hansis with Greg Rosenthal and Mark Sessler. Yes, Joshua Dobbs, the patron saint of ATN throws four interceptions in this game. And even two gnarly Justin Fields fumbles in the fourth quarter weren't enough to get Minnesota out of this game. Gregi, there's all sorts of goat horns to be handed out here.

But let's start with the bears who, you know, get a win when they need one. Matt Eberfluz finally has a division win. And Justin Fields, I don't know what to take out of the field's performance. I want to start with the goat horns. I'm sorry. I'm too caught up in my Vikings wish fulfillment that they would come through with for us as a team of ATL. And I'm not backing off. We knew it was going to be bumpy.

If I even said when we picked them, if we're picking the better team, like Houston Texans, they're better at football. We got to be in for the ride. But the thing that drives me crazy is on this night with four interceptions from Josh Dobbs, to me what stands out is the coaching losing its nerve in the final three minutes. After Justin Fields fumbles that ball, as crazy as this night was going to be, I thought we were going to be celebrating that, wow, it's the night that Josh Dobbs through four interceptions and they won the game anyways.

but then the play calls after that on both sides of ball were crazy. Kevin O'Connell going run, run, screen pass. He gets one yard, he gets two yards, and he gets a screen to burn all the bear's timeouts when he was calling for fourth and seven plays at midfield earlier, which I didn't mind. He was trying to be aggressive, but to get so conservative in that moment, and you're so far away, you can't even kick a field goal there because the plays didn't go well to punt it out of bounds.

And then for Brian Flores, even more surprising to me, Mark, the Blitzmaster, and it had been working all night, suddenly backs off in the final drive for Justin Fields. He's sitting back there patting the ball. And he ends up firing a bullet to DJ Moore up the middle of the field. Only Fields is second throw all night, Mark, to the middle of the field, second throw over 10 yards. He hits it, and the Bears win. And I do feel like at the very end, the Vikings lost that Hutzpah that we love him so much for. Yep. 34-yard completion to DJ Moore. And the Bears somehow became, you know, there were 29 teams that have failed to score a touchdown this season. They are the first team to do that and win is a weird game. That's kind of like what we're dealing with. And like, I kind of, it's like, Dobbs is a wonderful story. One of the great stories of the season. Tonight doesn't change that. But he's a deep backup, if you really think, about it and like oh let's not pull back the reins now and call him a deep backup well i mean it's

just that like we're asking him to lead the team of atel and i love him i love his personality i love his energy and his fire but like we're seeing the flaws tonight and like it's it's it's a rough ride it's going to be a rough ride because i think what we were introduced to on thanksgiving was a team in the green bay packers that are like maybe we're we're awakening and now you've got this NFC north that's in flux, and I wonder if the Vikings are heading in a different direction where the Green Bay Packers are heading upwards, not downward. They have a buy. They're six and six.

We can get into their long-term stuff, but they have a buy in their six-and-six, and they still have a lot of season. There's going to be ups. There's going to be downs. Yeah, we can't. We can't bail. We can't. This is the team around the NFL.

We're not failing. You know who's not the teammate, Cecil, you know who's not the team of ATL? The Packers. They're not. it's the Vikings and we need to pull together not fall apart at this moment but we can internally there can be tough love and Brian Flores as you're saying Greggy that is a man known for his aggressiveness on the football field that is a man of valor that is a man of bottomless integrity look what's going on in his life beyond just what he does on the sidelines look at Justin Fields

in the previous two possessions the man didn't want to want to win. Well, he wanted to win, but he was incapable of it. He couldn't protect the ball. He was holding the ball all game like he does every week. All you had to do was send the heat. And there was a very good chance. Justin Fields was either going to throw one up or grabs, take a gnarly sack to kind of blow the game or fumble while being pressured. And to let him off the hook like that, I just couldn't believe it. And Troy Aikman couldn't believe it. And yet we can't put everything on floors because like I said, the goat horns instead of the Viking horns, everywhere. Dobbs obviously is the other big name here. And you know, you're right. Like I don't

think he maybe he's not a true QB1. Maybe he's in this like purgatory where he's just a top rate backup or a lower level starter. So a game like this can happen to a player like that. Um, but yes, if you're a Vikings fan, you're a little nervous about, you know, is the pixie dust now going to disappear. The good news is again, as we now, that's internally. That's stuff we talk about. inside the house. Outside the house, we get at Vegas against the Raiders, you know, which is not a, not a team as they weren't as bad as they were when Josh McDaniels was there, but this is no juggernaut. And then you get the Bengals on, on the road in Sinty, which I would say was deadly if Joe Burrow was still around, but he's not before the Lions. So this one hurts a lot, just like

the Broncos game hurt last week. But it's not over yet. NFC's wide open. No, their defense, you know, played well for most of the night. Fields came out, and I'm with you, I wasn't sure what to make of that game from fields other than the Bears should just run the ball more in short-yardage situations. I mean, they called a very crazy game, too. They went for a fourth and ten early from around midfield. They hit it. And they also chose to kick field goals on a fourth and two and fourth and three.

And look, points were out of premium, and you can look at the final result and say, that makes sense, but they weren't running the ball with fields until they really needed to late in the game, and then it worked. And his numbers were great to start. He was 12 for 12 for 100 yards. They had a nice opening script, but everything was lying a scrimmage or close to it. Everything was to the side. And it was a response to those blitzes. And it worked for a drive that resulted in no points. And then they got the three points. And then after that, it just, it wasn't working. And they didn't have a pivot and they didn't really use him as a runner. And I thought Josh Mattelis was brilliant. Like the Vikings defense played really well. But a lot of that, and I know Twitter

is all about fields. And I like field. I think he is an NFL quarterback. I don't think he's a guy you would pass up the number one pick for. But some of those plays were on him. I mean, he misses Mooney when he's trying to scramble to make a play. He makes a bad decision on one hot Reed to Mooney, I mean, to Moore where he throws the ball. So he was at fault on a lot of these. And then the fumbles late were brutal as well. Yeah, he's got seven fourth quarter turnovers this season. I just, I don't, I think it's okay to have a football game once in a while, even though this was like an island game from like Beaselbob, like where like, um, we don't have to have 4,000 takeaways. I'm just to be real. Like, I don't, I don't come away from this having like major, like,

identity, like, associations with either team. It's like, I'm not, this didn't sell me on Justin Fields. It didn't not sell me on them. The Vikings are who they are. They've got, they're going to try to survive with Dobbs. I think Dobbs will also rebound next week and be fine, but it's like, I don't, I didn't need to come away with this with like a Russian novel, to be honest. Is that okay? It's just like, it's like, it was a weird game. I think Troy Aikman like identified it as a weird game like 400 to 500 times tonight. And it is what it was. Like it's like cool Like it happened

If this were on a Sunday It would be the eighth or ninth game We'd talk about Yeah but that was a four There aren't many four interception games This year That was kind of a meltdown by Dobbs Anytime he was under pressure

He was just kind of throwing it up There was one of the three And four interceptions That you know He put a lot of juice on it But it was essentially dropped by Addison One of the interceptions Was a great play by Jalen Johnson

You know The first one The other two were mind numbing and he could have had one or two more, which is why the four number doesn't even seem unfair. Because at some point, he just was losing, like, when to give up on a play. Well, so Dan and Mark, though, are ignoring one of the darker aspects to this contest. The Locke brothers who have been historically successful.

Dan, not a good night for us. Like, I mean, in general, not a good Locke season for us. We've nullified it. It doesn't exist in our book, but. We'll have to start after Thanksgiving, your own one. I want to see how far we can take this. How bad can we get? Virtually every favorite one.

All you have to do in this block competition is pick the right team that wins. There's no spread. You just got to pick the right team. The NFL is a very wonky place in 2023. But I say that. And then you got old, you know, horseshoe up as heinie Rosenthal over there every week, drilling his picks, piping them every week. But there's really nothing to say.

It's disgraceful. I mean, it's, I think we're both two games under. And at this point, I've even, I even thought about it. Like, because I'm out of the law competition and I'm not catching Greg, why don't I just go with Greg on every pick the rest of the season? Why don't I just and at least try to save my, uh, my overall career record. No, that's obviously, don't put that stink on me. I see.

Obviously, you know, yeah, you see you know me well. Um, uh, because obviously, uh, the instincts are wrong week after week. But, you know, like so. many other locks that have failed this year. Everything checked out for me before the game. I felt I felt great about this game. And I just didn't see the I didn't see Dobbs laying this big an egg obviously. And and and they can, you know, they still have Justin Jefferson. At some point he's coming back. He's not been seven weeks. He has to come back after the buyer. He has to be on their roster. Yeah. And the expectation is they were trying to give him one more week for

the. And I don't want to totally put everything on Dobbs too because I thought the offensive line had a bad game. for the Vikings. I thought O'Connell, you mentioned how conservative was when they had a chance to salt the game away in the fourth quarter and he ran it three times and then he punted. But, you know, a lot of early down runs that were that just the running game was going nowhere. And it was just in general, I just didn't like on both offense and defense, just not an aggressive game by the Vikings. They kind of just let the game play out and thought they could eventually steal it. And, you know, they nearly did. But they didn't. And that is one in nine. now, Matt Iber Fluse against the NFC North.

That was the longest active division losing streak in the NFL. So, and it was the Bears longest since the 1970 merger. So you get that monkey off your back. I think Iber Fluss is just trying to hang around and get another year in Chicago. And I think Fields, the only thing I'll say about Fields, and you're right, Mark, we don't need to give this game too much more because, yes, it was played on an island, but also it deserves to be on a deserted island. is that Fields is going to have to be a lot better in these last five weeks or so to have any chance to stay in Chicago.

If he wants to stay in Chicago, but if this is the type of up and down roller coaster efforts we're going to see the rest of the way and really we're there's no reason to think that won't be the case based on the larger sample size that he's given us at this point. He's probably, you know, playing his final games as a bear. So he has to turn it on. Anything else? Yeah, I think Iver Flus, who is 0 and 9. I saw that stat, I wasn't aware of that before this game. I thought, oh, this man, this man can't continue to coach a team if he's 0 and 12 against the division.

I mean, through the end of the year. So I tend to think he has a less than, you know, fighter's chance of returning next year. The only chance is to probably go four and two in their next six. And this win is a nice way to even start that beforehand. Like to start winning games and to kind of convince the. the ownership that it's somehow heading the right direction. I think Fields is in a similar spot where to me, if the Panthers give them the number one or number two overall pick, Justin Fields has an uphill battle to say, I'm more valuable

than that guy because you can get a pick for Fields. I think he's shown enough that he's going to be an NFL quarterback. Worst case scenario, you're probably getting like a two and a three for field, something like that, and you might be able to do better. And you want them to do better, but are these the coaches to really lead him that way anyways? That's why it always gives a certain meaningless feel to a season when you feel like you're building this quarterback, but the coaches aren't probably going to be there anyways.

Yeah, I feel like the bears are in this weird place where, like, I'm with you. I see a lot in fields, but then, like, also I could see them easily looking beyond him for someone in the draft that they had that kind of a situation. And it's like with Iber flus, like they have been better over the last, if you look at the last month of the bears, you can start to see it coming together a little bit. Like they've been a better team, but, like,

Iber Fluse is almost so resistant to giving us any impression of anything special or original or unique about him. I don't know what it, like, some coaches just have this thing where you're like, we could attach ourselves to them and, like, kind of fall for them in a certain way, whether they're good or bad.

Like, Iber Fluse, I just have no concept of what he's doing that's unique for the bears. And I think that's a problem for a coach in 2023. I agree with you on that, Mark, and he's one of those guys, and this is a second year, right? Where still, every time I see him on the sideline

for a split second, I'm like, oh, who's that? Oh, Iber flus. Well, he was the guy. He was the guy in the coach. He was not looking through the pictures. And he's just like, there's no way that guy's a coach. Like 10 years from now we'll be like, what was that guy's name?

This feels mean. His defense is coming together a little bit, T.J. Edwards, Jalen Johnson. But it's like a lot of these guys aren't going to be there. either. The one good thing, Mark, about Monday night football, no matter how bad the game is, it's a chance to spend three and a half hours with Joe and Troy, two men who genuinely enjoy each other's company, one of them a Hall of Fame quarterback and I know a longtime Sessler favorite and as good as it gets in terms of a color man in the booth. And Buck,

who is like his father, going to be joining him in the broadcasting hall of fame one day. And I just, I think there are heads and shoulders above every other play by play team in the sport right now. And they're just throwing that easy cheese. And there was a moment in this game. And I'm glad and a shout out to Sean Kelly, one of our great people behind the scenes here, uh, who had the same thought as I did, uh, that after Jalen Johnson dropped, they would be pick six, which was the second week in a row. The talented bears cornerback had came very close to making a game, uh, changing play. Aikman mentioned, you know, that he was going to, or Aikman was going to mention he was going to catch heat for being critical.

And then Buck kind of took us inside what it's like to be in this public position. I just thought it was fun. Let's listen in. I mentioned the one. He doesn't want to hear about it. I know. I mentioned the one that he dropped last week against Detroit that likely wins the game if he makes that play. Detroit scores on the very next play.

That's a pick six again. So back-to-back weeks, he has an opportunity for a pick six, just unable to make the play. He can't hear you now anyway. No, but he's got family. He will just hear about it after and then be mad and probably post something online. And then you'll hear about it for the rest of the week. And then we'll all forget about it. It's 3-0.

Bears on top as they go back on offense after a 47-yard punt. I mean, they're just throwing high 90s with a big old breaking ball and a devastating change-up right now. I would say as someone who's, you know, from time to time put things online that I did not intend to. Yeah, you just ride it out. You just ride it out. The chef's kiss for me there was him saying, and then we'll all forget about it. That's what puts Joe Buck over the top. He went through all that, and then he points out at the very end, like, and it will all be completely meaningless.

We'll have no memory of it. And Dan, you once said, you know, almost hurtfully to me that I always want to disagree with everything you are saying, just by reflexive nature. So I hope you know how much this means to me is I couldn't agree with you more about your Joe Buck and Troy Aikman take. This is the best broadcast right now and it's not even close. All right. Good. Let me see that makes me feel good as well. And you're right, Mark. You know, they say the internet never forgets.

But, you know, life goes on. Obla de, obla, da. Yes, it does. Take a break and we will hit some news. All right. Welcome back. Here is the reporting on Monday morning from Ian Rappaport out of Shoreland. owner Dave Tepper, Mike, did not want to make this move during the season.

It sounded like the preference would be to evaluate after the season. That was the goal. And it is always the goal until and unless you just cannot watch any further. It's a brutal game on Sunday. Plenty of mismanagement. Quarterback did not play well. Owner Dave Tepper deciding this morning that Frank Reich would be out less than one season after taking over the Carolina Panthers head coaching duties.

And it is once again a coaching search on in Carolina. Ah, yes. Unbelievable. Frank Reich is out after just 11 games, which is we're talking history. We're talking he didn't last as long as Urban Meyer. And that guy was the worst. But maybe we should have known it was coming because as we talked about in the Sunday show, Teper walked out of the locker room after that loss of the Titans shook his head and said, it was bad news for Frank Reich and sure enough the meeting on Monday went as poorly as imagined he leaves after a one intense start of the season and no growth from number one overall pick Bryce Young and let's face it Mark that is ultimately what got Reich canned it's one thing and I really do think as Tepper is so I think in it so involved perhaps overly involved that you know he's freaking out about the Bryce Young situation down in Houston as well. Like this is this was too big a decision to get wrong. And he is like a CEO has his hands in

everything and has decided, man, we got to get this figured out at quarterback. We got to get this team on the right track. So you get rid of the head coach, which is something that he's been known to do since taking over this team. It's a total disaster. I like part of me like just feel for Frank Reich, because I think we have enough evidence to tell us that Frank Reich is a good head coach overall. Like, I think this was a mess. The roster was a mess. They put Bryce Young into a tough situation. Their offensive lines are disaster. I don't know. I guess for me, I'm like looking at overall at the Tepper experience so far. And, you know, we talked about it before. Greg, you mentioned, like, on Sunday night show that, like, the NFL owner that comes

in from another life venture where you succeed and you play the high roller and you fire people left and right to create the right environment. That works in other places. I don't know about those places because I'm not good at other jobs, but I do this job. But like in the NFL, like, you're good at this one, Mark. I don't know if I am. But like the NFL owner like is going to learn real quick that like this kind of situation where you're still paying Matt Rules assistance at this point. You signed Matt Rule to like an eight-year contract that threw a bunch of other owners like into a tizzy because it was ridiculous. You're now paying, you still are on the hook for 25 million to Frank Reich. The impatience level, if you took an overall look at the roster, what were you

expecting this season? Like, what are you asking Frank Reich to accomplish? Like, I've been down on Frank Reich. I don't think he did. I don't think he was special this year at all. He didn't like actually come in and really make things great for them. But it's like, Frank, Reich is just the scapegoat here. I mean, where's the patience level? And I think the Panthers have one of the worst problems you can have as an NFL fan, which is your owner is creating the maelstrom. Your owner is creating the firestorm. Your owner is creating the problem. And I don't know how you get out of that. You don't get out of that because it's not solvable by firing anyone else. Like, TEPA right now is the problem. Right. And he has fired between,

his MLS team. He bought an MLS team a couple of years ago. It was an expansion, so they were building it up, but they started playing last year, and then he's got the NFL team. Between those two teams, in the last 18 months, he has fired four head coaches. That is not the interim. So he had his MLS team. He fired the coach after one season. Then he fired Matt Ruhle in the middle of last season. Then the MLS team made the playoffs, actually, and he fired that coach anyways after one season and now you know here's uh right and it's all fine like obviously like if you're in that press conference tomorrow the question is like well why should we have any confidence you know how to pick a coach because you are self-admittedly terrible at it you have said four different

times i'm bad at this i need to fix my mistake you gave you said it matt rule got a seven-year contract frank rake got a five they were the most expensive coaching net staff in history frank rike with all these assistants. So he's bad at it. Why should you be any good at it? And it's not even Frank Reich's fault necessarily when the reporting from Adam Schaefter was that he wanted C.J. Stroud or Anthony Richardson. There was differing reports on that, that Frank Reich did not want Bryce Young,

but that the owner did. And so that is just as messy as humanly possible. And you saw it. I mean, I watched the game yesterday, and you could just see Frank Reich on the sideline, just his body language. and he was just struggling. It was tough for him. And then when you think about that kind of stuff,

you know, this is his last chance. Let's face it. This is Frank. You got fired by two straight teams and back-to-back years. He's not getting another head coaching job. It would be a stunner if he did. Do you want a quote from him to Scott Fowler of the Charlotte observer today? The quote was,

this is probably the final chapter of my NFL journey. That is such a sad. And that's sad. And if you only get one more bite at the apple, you kind of and you get hired as a guy that has a lot of experience, both as a player and as a coach and the pedigree coming, you know, before the coach job from the Eagles. You, you, I think what Tepper needs to learn is you should defer to people that know this business more than yourself. And maybe if you listen to Frank Reich and some other football

people, you have Stroud or you have Richardson, who we don't know what he's going to be like. But we certainly know Stroud is the. dude. And I don't want to oversimplify it or repeat myself. But it is this is the other thing that I imagine is massively frustrating to someone like a Dave Tepper is if he just picks the other guy, none of this is probably happening. Now, I'm not saying Strah would be doing as well in Carolina as he is in Houston because there's a different coaching staff down there, different players. But you get the feeling that if he makes that decision differently, we might, we are probably not in this situation he's probably not fired but i feel like it would still be a mess but it wouldn't

be the same i don't know man like here's the thing like and he's gonna some great quarterbacks in messes you know as rookie quarterbacks he's sure and and and but i've seen a lot of quarterbacks too Greg like from my time as a jet's fan when you're when you're like at the bottom of the qbr list there's coming back from you'll look at Alex smith there's a couple cases through the year i stafford Eli like it happens but it's also many times a sign of a bad sign and and he has been very bad this year Bryce Young and hopefully someone comes in that connects with him but young being this guy so far and the fact that they don't have a number one overall pick and the fact that Tepper is who he is like who wants this job this is not a very this is not a very attractive job on the

open market I don't think yep that was my thought too was like it's going to be tough to pull at this point I would imagine Tepper wants to hit a home run you know from an optics standpoint and you're asking a coach to come in and work out of a corner because like I think like the quarterback is the number one thing and like Bryce Young dan I think you said it well like last night like he plays small like we we there's things you like about Bryce Young but it's like the next coach like what kind of coach is it going to be that like you've been stripped of picks um you traded away your number one wide receiver there's a very few weapons. The team has a disastrous offensive line, and you're not sure the quarterback

can play. Like, anyone will take an NFL job at some point. But this is a rough ask, and it's like you're not going to get a premier candidate. So, like, Tepper might wind up with someone even more unknown or riskier than even Frank Reich. And it's like, I just, I don't know. I think it's like the Panthers are in a really rough spot right now, and it's because of ownership. Well, yeah, don't tell me, by the way, you didn't want to do. do this. I know Ian is just reporting what they were saying. You know, Ian was saying, like, this was not the plan. He didn't want to do this. The hope was to make it to the end of the season. No, you did want to do this. You did it. It's literally the earliest coach been fired in 40 years.

You fired him faster than Urban Byra. You couldn't wait to do this. So you did it. Well, he didn't want to do it. But then he did it. He did want to do it because he did it. You know what I mean? He wanted him. He wanted them to be 10 and 1 right now. There's a lot of things he wanted, but that's not the reality. The context of like a couple weeks ago, oh, I don't, I don't want to do it. Just man up. I wanted to do it. I made a mistake.

I don't, I don't even like hate that in a vacuum of like, you're at this point. We don't need to like belabor that this isn't going to work. Let's move on. It actually might help. I mean, it helped last year when they hired Steve Wilkes. That's why they fell down to the ninth pick and had to trade up DJ Moore. And the number one. picked to get the number one overall pick because he was so impatient last year.

If you had let Matt Ruhle play out the string, you probably wouldn't have won all those games and you wouldn't have traded all those picks. Let's just go over some things that have happened with Teper. He has a half-built facility in the middle of South Carolina. We keep hearing how like, oh, he closes deals. Well, he didn't close that. It's literally a half-built building. He wanted Deshawn Watson.

Couldn't get him. That worked that well, at least. Once they get the doors built on that facility, they're going to close them. closing all those doors. He wanted Matthew Stafford. Remember that? They thought they had Matthew Stafford. They didn't close that.

They traded Christian McCaffrey. They turned down a couple high picks for Brian Burns last year. I mean, it's just, it's depressing. It's a depressing. And we'll talk more about the Panthers on Wednesday because guess what? We've been teasing this for a long time. It's been in the works. There was a scrubbed pilot edition of the program,

a couple of weeks back. That was an editorial error on our part. But this time, this week, Wednesday, the premiere episode of Tepper B talking. And again, stylized, that's Tepper dash, the letter B capitalized dash talking, no G at the end, just the apostrophe there. Tepper be talking because he has a press conference,

10.30 a.m. Eastern on Tuesday. And I should just get before we move on, special teams coach Chris Tabor has been appointed as interim coach while offensive coordinator Thomas Brown who just he right gave Brown play calling duties and then took them back and now Reich's gone and he's once again on the play calling duties with help from senior assistant Jim Caldwell Jimmy Caldwell still in the building also let go by the way Josh McCown who once upon a time was being touted as a head coach who was didn't even need any experience just put him right up there he's he's he's he's he's he's canned and also do Staley, a hard-knock star for the lines last year. Their running backs coach, uh, who jumped ship went to Carolina. And that was a mistake. So a lot of mistakes being made around the Panthers. A Giro Evereaux, who is a defensive coordinator was also in the middle of that Broncos mess last

year when, uh, Hackett got fired before the end of the season. So he, he has had some tough luck in terms of the defense as he's coordinated. We have both played well. And you mentioned. McCown wanted to skip right to the head of the line and become a head coach without any, you know, college or professional experience. The same can be said for Greg Olson, the number one analyst in the Fox booth, who's potentially getting bumped down to number two if Tom Brady actually decides to broadcast.

And he is letting it be known through a source close to Greg Olson, who, you know, sounds a lot like Greg Olson to me from the outside, that Greg Olson would listen if David Tepper was interested in offering him the Panthers. He's trying to lure him with that like stinky Dan Campbell cheese. Listen, I'm a tight end. You like me. I connect with the players. Okay. By the way, that is made if Dan Campbell coached to the NFL for about eight years though before he got. Yeah. I know. But, you know, that's major points for the side of, uh, the side of, uh, coin arguing Tom Brady's on his way to a booth because Olson's already looking for a parachute. He's like, I ain't dropping down to number two. Well, yeah, Richard Dich was a head

coaching job. Richard Dich and Joe Person, this was a joint reporting. I should give them credit for the athletic. And Richard Dich is their media journalist. And he said that it looks like right now, yes, Brady, you know, that is probably going to at least try it for for a year. And that in that, in that scenario, Olson would be bumped down to number two. Oh, isn't that a shame for you guys mostly? Right now, right now, it's not, it hasn't happened. You know, we'll see. That is a disaster, by the way, because Olson and Burckhard are excellent together.

I don't understand. I don't get why Olson would want to leave what he's doing right now where he is in a great spot doing a great job to go take over a team in like disaster mode. I don't know. It feels very Jeff Saturdayish to me, but. because he's butt hurt because old Tommy boy is riding in to take his job well Greg and I have theories that you know the Tom Brady may never take that job but at this point it sounds like you know what he took a year off to study announcing

please I think we have sandwich props on that one if I'm not mistaken yeah I believe I believe we do and uh let's go to me another angle is like John Lynch he he uses some outside interest in returning to the league to leverage a nice little raise there at Fox. But we'll see. Okay. In other news, Miles Garrett thought he heard a pop in his shoulder in Sunday's loss to who mark? I'm blanking on it. The Denver Broncos.

The Denver Broncos. However, according to rap sheet. the injury is not believed to be serious. The shoulder, quote, checked out okay. And that is, you know, season saving for the Browns because there's, you know, you could take away Nick Chubb and somehow survive. You could take away Sean Watson and still chug along. But if you take away the great Garrett, I think the jig is up.

So hopefully he will be healthy and his normal dominating self. This week, Dorian Thompson, Robinson, not so clear after he took that wicked shot in Denver. That could mean, Mark, more of the other Cleveland quarterback, which we do not need to see more of. Well, I think the big question is if they put Joe Flacco in there at this point, who was wearing a, it's very odd to me, very odd to me to see a Joe Flacko in a, a Brown's hoodie on the sideline yesterday.

That did not feel right to me on any level. But, you know, I think if we were in a world where, the MVP race wasn't just simply who the best quarterback is which is just that's all it is at this point Miles Garrett is in that world like for Cleveland

if you look at what he's done for the Cleveland Browns I think he's in that kind of you know space where he's won them games where I think in years past he's been more of a T.J. Wattish type character this year where he's had major like an incredible impact game after game

yesterday watching him he couldn't lift his left arm at all. Like they were trying to, like, teammates were attempting to give him a high five. He had to switch his body around, high five with his right hand. So I thought like we were going to get devastating news today. So this is quite a boon for the Browns who,

you're right, without Miles Garrett, check you later. We can't have Joe Flacco on the field in 2023. Come on. It's right across the sidewalk. We actually might all have to go. We might have to.

Joe Flacko. He is the ultimate. painful game too. They're seven and four. The Rams are trying to get in the man. I had to watch Joe Flacco on games. I counted last year for my team. Joe Flacco can still throw a tight spiral as many old dads can. But that man is the ultimate Stone Age pony in the pocket. And even worse, if you even sniff around him in the pocket, if it gets a little bit muddy, that ball goes flying. I'm, I still stick to the theory I was sharing with you yesterday in the newsroom, Mark, that Flacco doesn't want to play. He's like,

No, I just, I miss the guys. I miss being in the buildings. I miss the meetings, the camaraderie. But don't put me in. No, he looked very comfortable just sort of like hanging out in street clothes, you know, as part of the collection, part of the crew. Suddenly you're in a game where you're getting like destroyed by like a 240 pound defensive end. Just getting smoked by guys born in 2002.

And it's just like we're not. Aaron Donald. How about Aaron Donald? Aaron Donald. Like, yeah, come meet Aaron Donald four days from now. that'll be fun and think about it like with with flacko his johnny unitas biopic fell through and at this point he already thought he would be you know knee deep in his hollywood career and and since that never took off he's just looking to fill the void and that's just being in buildings and being around the

guys being in a lot i will tell you i've mentioned this before but like in the when we went to the super bowl in new york and on you know that night as we were leaving we were i think we're the last people to leave that stadium it started to snow and greg um had verbal words with our taxi driver who tried to like get gas in the middle of that trip and overcharge us. But the next day it was snowing pretty heavily. And I was walking down the street outside our hotel and Joe Flacco like came out of a, you know, swinging door. And it was like, like other quarterbacks that you just think on the sideline look like average dudes. Like he was a strapping like handsome man. So he's 10 times cooler in person than you'd think just by looking at him in a hoodie on the sideline. So we'll

see, but a him on the Browns makes no sense. He's Mark's type. No, but him on the browns makes no sense, right? It's one of the most jarring, bizarre things that makes no, like, visual sense. I mean, it's almost as weird as Carson Wentz taking snaps for the Rams on Sunday. They didn't let him throw the ball, but just watch it and run out onto the field. What if we saw, I mean, I do not want Matthew Stafford to get hurt or anything, but maybe he has to go to the bathroom for a second. We see a little Wentz versus Flacco in 2023. I know we should move on. but I don't know. How many more times

we can have a chance to talk about Joe Flacco. Super Bowl 47, Superdome. The Ravens have just pulled it off. And Joe Flacco just won Super Bowl MVP after one of the greatest postseason runs by any quarterback ever. It happened.

Look it up. And Mark, you and I snuck on the field at the Superdome. It was right before they did that thing where you have to scan your badge to get onto the field. And we kind of, I remember we ducked through these curtains because the Superdome,

you know, It was kind of a dump in some respects. And they didn't have a, they didn't have it secure. So we kind of snuck through these curtains, got on the field right after the game with the confetti and the canons and the celebrations all around us. And there's Joe Flacko and next to him is one of his brothers. And Joe looks, taps his brother on the shoulder in like a quiet moment during the celebration after they did the riser stuff and pointed out this this beautiful 2013 or 2013 or, 2014 Corvette that was given to him for being the Super Bowl MVP, and he goes, hey, that's my car.

Pretty cool. I love it. Let's be cool to be a quarterback and have success. All right. Let's move on. That's my fucking car. Maybe the best half of football, it is my answer for the, the first half of that game is the best half I've ever seen any quarterback play in person, period.

It's not even close. outrageous. It was outrageous. So Garrett expected to play Sunday, DTR uncertain. Shack Lawson, brutally frustrating a loss for the bills on Sunday. And imagine a loss like that. And then you're in Philly with all those fans everywhere and they're giving you a hard time. He ends up, Lawson, he got caught on video in a confrontation with fans during that game. And, you know, I actually didn't have a chance to take a look at this. But he did. did apologize and say he respects the game and he respects his opponents. He was giving his side of the story that before the game, there was a fan behind our bench, making life-threatening

remarks towards us and our families. Whoever you are, Bradley Cooper, you got to cut that out, all right? This is just football. But anyway, there was lines that shouldn't be crossed, Lawson said, and they were. And, you know, so obviously a very emotional situation. And he shouldn't have used hands but I could see it too I have a feeling the NFL will react strongly to this because it's on video if it wasn't on video which no one had heard about it until you know some I'm going to watch it posted it on Twitter um you know no he wouldn't have gotten punished but this is this is the NFL's nightmare is him getting right in his face right at right in the front row as the game ended I wonder if the fan came down even in further if he was there the whole

time but it's an ugly scene i'm looking at it now did he he bumped him it looks like they were like in each other's face you can't really tell from that angle maybe there was a little pushing um but thankfully it didn't go further by the way that fan sucks whoever you are you suck of course yeah of course and i mean this it's a very it's a high stress environment an emotional game uh you are there to watch a game not taunt the players and try to get a reaction you suck anyway Alvin Kamara with you. Greg, set up this Alvin Kamara quote because the saints are in very desperate straits right now. It doesn't seem like anything on either side of the ball is particularly noteworthy,

but it's the offense especially that is in the crosshairs, an offense that has been failing miserably in the red zone and everything is hard and the quarterback is not getting it done. And neither is anyone else, really. Here's tell us about the Kamara words. Yeah, well, Comerra has been an interesting person to listen to this year. because he's clearly just frustrated. I think it's not too hard to read between the lines of the leadership.

You know, there's some liking of tweets from Michael Thomas that would maybe indicate like they're not thrilled with the quarterback either in the coach. But in this case, I thought he very pointedly, in a way that you don't hear a coach or a player almost call out directly his head coach in terms of the words that his head coach uses. And he did that after the game on Sunday. Now, this clip is from Nick Underhill site, Orleans football, but it's a special edited clip from a guy on Twitter,

Nola Flint, at E-F-L-Y-N-T, and he had a little fun cutting it up. Let's listen to it. Just, I don't know. We need to find a real fix, not just a, oh, we got to be better. Because that's going to be better every week. That's obvious. Like, let's get past that. We already know we've got to be better.

How are we going to get better? What are we going to do to get better? One Day Later. Yeah, look, I mean, does it need? to be better, yes, you know, I'd be the first one to stand up here and tell you that it needs to be that it needs to be better. And it really hadn't been quite where we needed to be in the last couple of years. So it's going to continue to be an area that we'll address and try to work on and try to be better at. I don't know if we could use all that, but he literally said,

I'm sick of hearing you say we got to be better. Tell us how to be better. How are we going to be better? This is a man, Camara, that was coached by Sean Payton, who I think is very good on the details, the small details of the game, and that's where the Saints are struggling, 29th in the Red Zone, all sorts of penalties. And he's like, give us some answers. We're not getting answers. I feel like the Saints, like this offseason kind of made it clear outside of, you know, attempting to try to convince us that Derek Carr was going to help things, that they were very content with winning eight to nine games. And Dennis Allen was sort of like the signal in the symbol of that. And like, I can't imagine a team that could have more

changes coming this off season. I could see a lot of transition. Uh, yeah, for sure. I mean, we talked about it. Uh, we did the what you people don't realize. We are going to see a lot of turnover in head coaches. We've already now seen to go by the boards and we just crossed Thanksgiving. There are going to be, uh, you know, potentially 10 changes here by the time we get to January. It could be one of those real bloodbath, uh, years. NFC South feels like one coach survives, basically. Like whoever wins the division, you keep your job. Maybe Arthur Smith could keep it if you like went eight and nine and didn't win the division.

I don't know. But I don't think that's the way it's going to work out. Imagine like having your dream job that you fought your whole life for. And it's coming down to whether Desmond Ritter can get you across the finish line at eight and nine. That sounds very stressful. That sounds like an ulcer waiting to happen. Injury news. Well, no, let's hit some Raiders.

news they cut marcus peters the veteran cornerback he had to pick six a couple weeks ago and was playing for them but they had a team meeting they had a meeting with him and he was due i believe a million and a half in incentive money if he played the rest of the season and i think that played a role in the decision to part ways as the raiders obviously are not contending right now a rodrick teamer he gets a DUI on a game day uh so uh he gets cut as well Yeah. Maybe Peters ends up with his old Ravens team. They could use a corner guy. And then he would play like he was 26 again. I could see it. The Jags put left tackle Cam Robinson on injured reserve. Dolphins left tackle Taran Armstead is week to week.

We'll see where he comes down health-wise. And anything on that, boys? Well, I feel like every couple of weeks we have our like, wow, Taran Armstead, they're just not the same without him. And Saints fans can kind of mention like this was their experience with him too, great guy, but almost never plays more than eight to 10 games. And they really aren't the same offense without them. And that's a big loss for the Jaguars too. They're starting left tackle, even though they have some good depth there. And finally, Joe Shane, he came out and did a press conference. He's the general manager of the New York Giants. And he said something that I guess raised eyebrows that did a little bit less for me and we could talk about it after listening in on his

words today i think we're going to have to do something in the quarterback um whether it's free agency or or the draft i mean just where we are tie rods um contracts up you know de veto is obviously under contract and daniel you know we don't know when he's going to be ready so you know just from an offseason program standpoint you know i think um that'll be a position that we'll have to look um again there's different avenues free agency or the draft but we'll have to address but we'll have to at some point. It was also said by Shane that the expectation is Daniel Jones will be the starter when healthy. But listen, we've been doing this for a while. That's what they almost always say. And that allows you to kind of cover yourself. And also, you don't have, you don't get accused of

lying because in the moment you're saying the expectation is that he's our starter. But then you go through an off season where you check out what's in the free agency market, the trade market and the draft market and it could be very different. I'd be surprised, quite frankly, if the Giants end up with a top five pick and don't pull the trigger on a QB. I don't think you can go into next season if you're Brian Dable trying to sell Daniel Jones to the fan base or to yourself. I think he's like, you know, they came out of a year where he was the most productive version of Daniel Jones and got the contract, but it's like they're going to be in position to draft someone. there are going to be a number of quarterbacks that are available by a trade.

And it's like he'll at least have intense competition for the starting job because I'm not convinced he's a reliable starter on any level. Well, their win, you know, that we talked about on Sunday was really potentially huge for their draft position. And then the Bears winning tonight is another team. There's quite a bit of separation now between the top three picks. Carolina at one win, obviously that's the Bears pick. and then the Cardinals and Patriots at two wins. Everyone else, including your Jets, has four wins. So the Jets are even in the mix for like a top five pick at this point.

There's a lot of teams, but there's some separation there. You don't say. They're like Arizona and the Patriots and then the bears are a pretty strong one, two, three right now. And they would all have to win multiple games to fall out of that. If the season ended today, I'm on the great tankathon.com. It would be top five would be Chicago from Carolina, Arizona, New England, Chicago again, Washington. I'll give you the top 10. Giants at six, Tampa Bay 7, Jets 8, Chargers 9, Tennessee 10.

Where things stand right now. And yeah, picks four through 10, I'll have four wins. So get excited. How about that, Greg? How about that week 18, Jets at Patriots? that's a wild one because the Jets it's probably the Jets' last chance to beat Bill Belichick

which they outside of one miraculous playoff win could never do and the Patriots need to lose that game most likely but they literally can't lose to the jet they've been trying to lose to the Jets for a couple of years now and they still can't right they can't beat the giants no matter who they throw out there

and they can't lose to the Jets and I thought I would just from you know I would have I guess that would have been one of those fans that could actually root against, you know, the team I grew up rooting for in a situation like this, because I do know it would be bad. I really do want one of those quarterbacks that would get me excited. But when it came down, I can't root against the team when they're on the field against the Giants. I still wanted them to win until the game's over. And then you're like, especially the Giants.

Yeah, especially the Giants. But until the game's over, but really any of the games. And then you're like, okay, actually, now that that's a half hour old, that's probably good that that actually happened. But how can you root against your own team? Can I just double back, Mark? I came too strong there. I feel like the Daniel Jones thing maybe has a little more. God, they just gave him this huge contract.

And the whole season was a loss season. He gets hurt. Are they going to bail on him? I know there's only one year of guaranteed money left beyond this year. But also, Dable is now, if Dable really does like Jones. And I would imagine he liked him a lot because he had to be fully on board. you would imagine or with the decision in money.

I don't like it first of all like the kind of the contract is what for they're tied to him for one more year. I think it just depends what other opportunities come up. Like Brian Dable after this season, I mean assuming it just continues in the skittish fashion that it's been in like you're coaching for your job next year. Like do you tie your job to Daniel Jones? I would not.

I would look around. He did. I mean what I'm saying is three months ago or whatever. He was perfectly comfortable with it. or four months ago, whenever the contract was handed out, did they, did he lose the faith of the team that quickly? I guess it's certainly, certainly, and maybe they're trying to thread the needle, Greggy.

Maybe they're, they're looking at like the old, the old, um, Chargers model. And it's like, well, we got Drew Breeze here, but let's draft Philip Rivers. And then if Drew Breeze plays well, we could trade him and then give Phil, you know, maybe they're hoping they can maybe Jones is still involved next year. And then they have a backup ready to roll either way. Yeah, I think they want to. be ready. I think they will absolutely get a quarterback if at all possible. But if they have the

sixth pick, are they going to maybe trade picks up to get a quarterback? No, then having Daniel Jones maybe changes that and we'll see what veterans are available. But I always thought, as I usually do with quarterbacks and the Giants, that ownership was involved in that contract, I think they were big, they're big fans of Daniel Jones getting that thing over the finish line. And it's only one more year. And this year could not have been anywhere, Stan. mean that if he had had this year a year ago it's not like it would have been a decision you know what i mean so and he's coming off in acl i don't know i'm not a huge danny dimes guy and i always thought it was a little weird that like the last four games and a playoff game before the eagles loss

that's really what got him paid when he got hot there i thought more than anything else it always seemed weird that he got the deal but i don't know they got a big decision to make uh anything else boys not particularly for me has the christmas parade ended mark yeah like what time did you get into your apartment mark 11 something 11 something like uh you know you could have like parked like a mile away and then like walked or something like that i could have if you really needed to get back for some reason right i live in a magical you right i live in a magical place but uh this was a disaster. So I am. What's up? Like I don't know. I don't know this because I don't produce, but could Mark have like jumped on on his phone from the car if he's sitting in traffic anyway, if you really

like cared? Yeah. No, I mean, yeah. It's definitely a possibility. I don't want to throw you under the bus. But I think, um, I want to say we had Bonetta on her phone at one point in the Friday fun show last year too. She'd have dropped out. But no, I will also say, I will also say I've been in the Hollywood area. Yeah. Signal out there probably would have been a nightmare and it would just created problems. I will give him that. So it probably could have been done. You said what you said, producer, Eric.

Sorry, Mark. Thank you, Eric. We'll talk to you later. Have a nice night. All right. Everybody have a nice night. We'll be back. Check out NFL Plus where we broke down

Eagles Bills. And we'll be back Wednesday. It's Connie Fox Wednesdays. And the premiere episode of, yes, Tepter be talking. So you can't miss that. Until then, eat the call. This is an I-heart podcast.