NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Browns dump another first-rounder; HOF recap

Episode Date: August 6, 2018

A room filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Marc Sessler & Chris Wesseling – bring you the latest news around the NFL including the Browns trading Corey Coleman to the Bills (04:23), Doug Pederson’s extension with the Eagles (09:08), Kelvin Benjamin and his bad fit with the Panthers (12:39), and Patriots rookie Sony Michel’s knee injury (18:46). The heroes give you their recap from the Hall of Fame induction ceremony (32:32), and discuss Jon Gruden with Conor Orr (49:21).Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast still isn't throwing in practice. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast, presented by New Era. My name is Dan Hansis, and I'm joined in room filled with some heroes for now anyway. Mark Sessler and Chris Wessling. What is up, boys? Hey, Dan. Hey

Yeah, we were We thought it was going to be the three of us And Greg made a round of phone calls About 20 minutes before the show started To say that he would be Heading north from Chargers camp And after completing a call with Greg Where we sort of said

I said, why don't you just roll in when you can Because we've got a definitive start time Which is rare for the show A guest coming up So I hung up with him I thought a very productive call Productive Call with Greg Went on about my business

and then two seconds later my phone rang again and Greg was FaceTiming me. I thought this must be extremely important. But Greg had mistakenly FaceTiming and I could hear him speaking to some random person at Chargers camp while my face was up on the screen. His was not. So I said, forget it.

It's a typical, Greg's done this on the phone before. So I just hung up on Greg. Ten minutes to go by again and Greg calls me again and then simply hangs up. So, you know, I don't know what's going on with Greg there. He's got a lot to answer to you. He also, and we can maybe talk to him, about this when he's in here.

It feels fair. But he made some bold statements about his driving ability in and around Rams camp where we were obviously on Thursday. And then there were some eyewitness accounts, first person eyewitness accounts that spoke really to the contrary

of his statements that he is indeed a good driver. Maybe we'll get to that today. But we have a lot to get to. So, yes, it was nice being at Rams camp on Thursday. That's what you heard on Friday's show. But better to be back in the studio. I'm happy to be here. This is where we belong.

Safe space. It's not like hot. It's not strangers everywhere. I don't have to shake people's hands. I'm like, oh, thanks so much for, you know, helping us with it. No, I just want to be in here in my little cocoon.

This thanking thing is on your radar. I've been noticed. So we're back in the studio. And Wes, we are how many days away from week one? Probably 30-something. It's 30-something days away from week one. A lot of news to get to.

And it's coming in hot and heavy now. So we're going to get to all that. Also, the Hall of Fame ceremony inductions were in Canton this weekend. So as we do every year, we will check in on the highs and lows from that particular affair. And that it's been a while, our good friend formerly of NFL.com, and now a hot shot over at the Monday morning quarterback slash s.com. S.I.com realm. Connor or, are you kidding me? But actually, instead of playing a game with Connor,

we're going to talk about a recent feature piece he wrote about John Gruden and the Raiders. A toned down or segment. Yeah, a little toned down. We'll get to that because I think... Yet to be seen if it's toned down. Yeah, we'll find out where he's at emotionally. So so much to get to.

And Greg, at some point. Loose Cannon, once again, behind the glass. Hey, guys. Thanks for all your hard work at Lanscam. You're welcome. You're very welcome. Let's do some news. That's why I'm still kissing you in the mouth.

Yeah, I kiss all my kids in the mouth. Don't hate. Don't hate. Stay with me now. Don't hate. I know, I know, I know, I know. I know, I know, I know. The best moment of the entire weekend in Canton was after Ray Lewis.

And it was the background there was that he was saying he didn't have a relationship with his own father and he didn't have someone that, although he had a great relationship with his mother. He didn't have someone to tell him when he was young that he was loved and kissed him. So it was sweet that he kisses the children. But then to show the ESPN showed a long like pan across each of the children dying of embarrassment, which is kind of fun. Yeah. All right. Let's do some news. And the Ravens used to be the Browns. How's that for a transition? Cessler. Well, the Browns were scouting Ray Lewis before they became the Ravens. So What a wonderful two decades it's been.

Why don't we hop into the dog pound to get going today? And once again, the Cleveland Browns are parting ways with a former draft pick that was supposed to transform the franchise. This time, it's wide receiver Corey Coleman, who was their first round pick in the 2016 draft. What pick overall was he, Mark? About 12 was it? 15th, I believe. 15th overall. Suffered a pair of hand injuries and back-to-back seasons to start his career.

and then you heard whispers and Mark this is this was something on your radar for some time that Coleman was maybe not a good fit uh in terms of personality or vibe with the new new new new browns so they trade them to the bills and the bills obviously we just talked about this last week in the podcast West they had a need uh at wide receiver they get Corey Coleman for the price of a seventh round pick in the 2020 draft which is Christian Hackenberg type compensation just a boondoggle by the Browns, and they're moving on. This is the closest you can get to releasing a player without releasing them. A seventh round pick, not even in the next draft, the draft after that. It's basically saying we don't want to cut the first draft pick of the Hugh Jackson era. Well, and I would say that if you're the Browns, if you look at how long front office is last in Cleveland, when you decide to net a draft pick two years from now, good luck if you're the front office making that pick. It's basically, to me, when I saw this, number one, it's bad optics for Cleveland, obviously, on multiple levels.

I think we get that because if you're Buffalo, you desperately need a wide receiver. Corey Coleman's about 24 years old. And let's say he- It's a great trade for them. Let's say he matures and he's still, I thought there was a game against the Ravens, actually, where Cory Coleman scored two touchdowns and looked incredible, and then it never happened again. I mean, you never know what you're going to get. So the trade is mysterious to me on that level where why would you allow a seventh round pick to be the compensation But what stuck out to me is there must be another shoe that drops here on some level, whether it's they know something about Corey Coleman that the bills do not.

Now, he has to pass a physical and all that business too. But secondly, are they planning to make a signing or a trade of their own to bring someone else in? He was listed number one on their depth chart yesterday, which basically tells me they're trying to sell them because they don't believe that. I didn't believe that about him. And that's when the Des Bryant talks will again pick up, which again, does not feel. Well, they have picked up because Raffport said that interest is still there. Feels like a strange fit Dez in Cleveland, we'll see. But, Wes, it seems like, also this wasn't a guy that had some type of catastrophic lower body injury.

It was two broken hands, and maybe that's a chronic thing that will haunt his career. But this seems like there is more behind the scenes. You know, Mark Sparrows have been in his ear. That's why you've been bringing up Corey a lot trying to get him out of town. There had to be more to this story, like Mark said. Well, I think what Mark Sparrows have probably said is some combination of he's a knucklehead in the locker room off the field and when he came into the league

the knock was he came from a Baylor offense where you don't run anywhere close to a full route tree. Will he ever become an NFL level route runner? And I would say those are the two questions he's carrying with him to Buffalo. Yeah, I mean the people who have been at Browns Camp say that rookie Antonio Calloway is

already a cleaner route runner than basically Corey Coleman has ever been. This is a guy from a purely physical standpoint. You wrote articles, other people wrote articles, comparing him to Steve Smith as he entered the league. Right, but there's a DNA chip missing there big time to make him Steve Smith so far. And there is that, there's a wild stat. I think every Brown's pick, first round pick since 2011,

there's no one on the team. Well, I think there's a lot of pride involved in that too. Number one bad picks, but it's new front offices, and we're seeing it with John Dorsey. He's coming in, he's burning down the entire house that he inherited. And there have been five or six front offices or iterations of some. I feel like I heard this stat in 2013 about the previous front offices pick. It's just update the year. It's just ridiculous. So, you know, you have to have one of these, and hopefully it's this one, but who knows,

stick around for 10 years and have a shared philosophy over the course of a decade. It should be noted that this pick was made after they traded out of the opportunity to pick Carson Wentz. Well, it goes down, if you want to cook it up a certain way, you could say almost that they gave away Carson Wentz for this 20. 27th rounder and a few other players. It is one of a stretch. In the end, well, in the end,

it is one of the worst trades of all time because they got very little in the end. And just to make sure I have that stat right, Cleveland had 11 first round picks and the eight drafts between 2009 and 2016. None are on the team. So Corey Coleman, Sianara, moving on.

Well, obviously, Corey Coleman. Obviously. Good teams have stability. at the top. The Browns have not been able to do it. The Eagles have. And we saw that. This weekend, the Eagles on Sunday announced head coach Doug Peterson

and executive vice president of football operations. Howie Roseman have signed contract extensions. No details. But this is a no-brainer as it comes. In Atlanta, they did something last week locking up their brain trust. This is equally a no-brainer because Doug Peterson is the perfect guy to lead that team. and Roseman survived. He went through the five football fields of S-smelling foulness,

made it out clean on the other side, and he is more powerful than ever in that organization. This is their time. This is their glory days, their Halcyon days. Doug Peterson and Halley-Rosman, to me... Salad days, even. Salad days. They were the story of the 2017 season.

The way they've built this team combining analytics with old-school scouting, new school philosophy, to develop a team. that the owner can be proud of on the field as well as off the field. This had to have been one of the most no-brainer, even with so many years left on their contracts. These guys are the story in the NFL right now. I believe Salad Days refers to when you're young,

barely getting by and eating something no more than salad. Is that what it means? Yeah, it means you're like a naive. So I wouldn't categorize. I always thought Saladays meant like these are the good times. I know, but would you think that? Hey, these are the days that Dan Hansis ate salad. Some salads are good, though.

I think it, I will check it out, but I think the Eagles are post-salid days. We got your post-sallad days right here. Okay, moving on. So we knew this was going to be a situation where we had a feeling, even when we were at the Talent Summit, which is kind of an obnoxious thing to say,

but I was at the Talent Summit for NFL Media last month, and they had Al Riveron explain the new rules, including the new helmet rule. And lo and behold, In the first preseason game this year, the Hall of Fame game, what happens? The flags are flying. I believe there were multiple penalties for leading with the helmet. Afterwards, players were perplexed.

Players were upset, confused. And frankly, I would imagine worried that this is the new reality in the NFL, and we're not going to be able to play more than six snaps without a personal foul for going helmet to, not just helmet to helmet to helmet now, Mark, helmet to any part of the body. So a troubling start. Yeah, well, we came home from Rams camp, and that Hall of Fame game was, you know, midway through or so, and Twitter was a glow with the helmet.

The first thing I saw looking on Twitter. We were just refreshing, like ceaselessly. What happened next? Nonstot helmet rule issues. I think a couple people, especially some former players, made a good point, though, that whenever they initiate a new rule, because back when there was hands to the face was a rule a couple years ago,

Jeff Schwartz, the former lineman, point out, that they called it endlessly, in the preseason to get it into everyone's mind. And then when week one came, they regalvanized how often it was getting called, how annoying it would be, how invasive, and they chilled on it a little bit. But it's really to set the tone that, you know, let's not find out in week four that this is a hot issue, find out in week one of the preseason. And that's why I don't want to get too worked up about it in the preseason because we don't

know how it's going to be called in the season. We don't know if it's going to be a minor annoyance or a major storyline every week. moving on Kelvin Benjamin who is now in Buffalo he was a former first round pick of the Panthers wait a second look who's rolling

I'm just trying to get airtime here there he comes the man oh he's wearing shorts first time anyone's ever worn shorts in the podcast video it's not true I used to wear shorts in here quite often until a shadowy league figure

informed me that I was to stop showing up with shorts on I've never seen you guys He's been on the road, though. That's a short... Out there, shorts is the normal dress out there. Ooh, it was 90 degrees. Yeah, it's hot.

It made Irvine look cool. I've never watched you guys from that side of the glass. It looks very professional, like, really good operation we've got going here. Well, that's good. And you were at Chargers Camp? How'd that go? It was good. Yeah.

You know? Better or worse than being at Rams Camp with us? Being at Rams Camp with you guys was more fun. This was just... But then you get at Chargers Camp, you get to, like, pal around with, like, DJ and stuff. I feel like that. Tom Tel Lesson. go.

That gets crazy. It also was over at noon, so that wasn't, you know, a nice thing. That schedule. So anyway, we're going to keep going here. Greg, you want to just jump in? That's the plan. Let's jump in. We're talking about Calvin Benjamin, who was the first round pick of the Panthers,

started out pretty well, actually, his first year, and then things kind of went south. He is now on the Bills. And in an interview with the athletics, Tim Graham, the Bills receiver, talked about his four years of the Panthers. this is what he had to say on his time in Carolina. I mean, I felt like I would have been even more successful if ellipsies. Looking back on it, I should have just been drafted by somebody else. I should have never went to Carolina.

Truly, I just think Carolina was bad for me. It was a bad fit from the get-go. He went on to say this. If you would have put me with any quarterback, let's be real, you know what I'm saying? Interesting. Any other, he didn't say interesting, I did. Any other accurate quarterback like Aaron Rogers or Eli Manning. Ooh, shot across West and Gregsbaum.

or Big Ben, anybody. Quarterbacks with knowledge, they know how to place a ball and give you a better chance to catch the ball. It just felt like I wasn't in that position. Wes, your thoughts? I sort of hated that this story came out because Cam is such a polarizing figure

as it is that people want to reduce the discussion to him of whether he sucks or he's awesome. There's never any room for he's a terribly inconsistent passer because his mechanics are screwy and they will always be screwy. When he's playing hot and his mechanics are all right, he's an MVP.

All the other times when he's not playing hot and his mechanics are off, he's one of the worst passes in the league and yet maintains plenty of value because he does so many other things well. That said, Kelvin Benjamin wasn't lying. Ball placement issues are a major problem with Cam Newton. At the same time, though, I put this under the category of why.

Why do this? Why say this? And by the way, the second question is you're on a Buffalo team with three quarterbacks who we aren't sure we can trust any one of them. So your situation, it's not like suddenly you're with Aaron Rogers and you can sit in your pretty seat and say, the past was rough and rugged for me. No, it's going to get worse now. You're going to find out you're going to appreciate Cam Newton potentially

by week three or four. I totally agree with everything both of you said. But the first thing that stuck out to me was, well, this is why they traded Kelvin Benjamin partly. Right, sure. You can go find, and Will Brinson, did in this tweet, all these insane quotes that Kelvin Benjamin had during his time in Carolina, some of which were very dismissive of Cam or the coaching staff or whoever, and

like that's one of the reasons they wanted to get rid of him. Yeah, but except that a former Panthers coach and former Panthers front office individual traded for him. And then just now had to sit down and have a talk with him about how they want him to conduct himself. They should know better than anyone. Let's take a quick break from news to check in with our sponsor. Is your home an ADT home?

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Wonder when a minor procedure to drain fluid from his knee, rap sheet reported Saturday. via source informed of the situation. He's expected to be back in time for week one, the matchup against the Texans, but obviously not a good start for a rookie. Any rookie doesn't want to be behind the eight ball here. Rex Burkhead, Greg, at the top of the depth chart, New England, and Sony's got to make his way up.

It already sounded like Rex Burkhead was the leader in the clubhouse for touches and that Michelle was having his struggles, maybe because of this knee injury, which Michael Lombardi reported back in April, was a bone-on-bone condition in his knee, yet the Patriots still drafted him in the first round. They do this a lot. They tend to take a lot of injury risks,

and then every once in a while it turns into Rob Gruncowski. But for the most part, it's just drafted a lot of injured players. Is that Mike Lombardi, though, deep inside the Patriots organization scaring other teams off, or is that the Patriots ignoring Mike Lombardi? But that was what I thought at the time, but now it's not working out too well. Rap sheet said about two weeks is how long he should be out, but to me that's two weeks off the first.

field and then to be eased back in because you're dealing with a knee situation, I wonder whether he's going to even be on the field in week one. And in other Patriots news and more knee issues, Malcolm Mitchell has been waived by the Patriots, a former fourth round pick, who, if you recall, had a really nice game in the Super Bowl 51 win over the Falcons. But he's had knee issues that have kept them on the sideline and they are deciding New England now to move on. Again, another hit to the depth chart there.

and you wonder if Mitchell's issues are even more serious than we are aware of because he probably could be a useful player when healthy Mark. Yeah, I mean, this team is crumbling from the inside out. That's all I have to say. There's no way a team that needs wide receivers is releasing this guy if he's healthy. You know, just as a Patriots fan, man, I was ready to just be a huge Malcolm Mitchell fan. Oh, you were. And I am a huge, literally the last time he was on the field.

Way to jinx him, bro. He caught five passes in five targets for, 63 yards in the Super Bowl. And they were all these insane timing routes that took so much precision and was some of Tom Brady's most memorable throws, I think, of his entire career that Mitchell's catched. I'm thinking, all right, we got a decade with this guy. Well, now you have to shift.

That was the last, that was it. Now you shift your affections to known malcontent, Kenny Britt. This is, Kenny Britt just keeps on. I don't mind. I don't mind. He got him a ring. They would not have won a Super Bowl without Malcolm Mitchell. This has become the wide receiver equivalent of Sam Bradie.

Redford's week one game against the Saints last year. I'm blowing it up. It's true. That's fair. Don't forget about Gino Smith's closer to the 24th. Oh, yes. Lightning in a bottle. They're not in the Super Bowl, though.

Moving on, the Raiders, surprise kicking move. You know, I love kicker talk. Giorgio Tavecchio, the second year kicker, who replaced Seabass last year when Seabass went down with his injury and really thrived, especially in the early part of the season, allowing him to stick around. Well, John Gruden, obviously you didn't see enough of him to say, we want you here in a long-term capacity.

So Tevecchio is cut loose and signed as Mike Nugent, who I believe has now been on every team in the league twice. I mean, I guess we're going to talk a little Raiders later, but is this Gruden just saying I'd much rather have someone who's 36 than 24. No, the kicker is supposed to be Eddie Pinniero, who is an undrafted rookie. And Mike Nugent is there competing. He's in the building. It sounds like it's Pinheiro's job.

And by the way, Dan, I do want to mention when I was at Chargers Camp, I scooted over to the second field where the special teamers are hanging out. And I saw your buddies over there. Roberto? They were just Roberto Aguayo, of course. I mean, this has been kind of under the radar. I would think Aguio's back in a big-time competition. In fact, he's had a nice camp.

Against Caleb Sturgis. He's the underdog, Aguio. But, you know, the reports are they're both kicking pretty well. Yeah. Should I dig in on this? They were just kind of sitting around though There wasn't much to see Come on Robbie, get up

Do they feel guilty about that? They were just kind of like hanging around What is Zaglio's hair situation right now Because he's gone bangs at times He's done a little bit of a He's a V thing in the middle He had a helmet on Just trying to figure things out

How do you feel about Greg being on your corner I actually appreciate it Because he was there, boots on the ground I was hoping you were going to I didn't really have actually kicking I did ask someone And they were like Oh, they're both kicking

well too close the call i think it doesn't matter to the game starts you need to get back down in the lab dan and do a little eddie penero film study i think you're right had you heard of eddie pinero before today of course i know every kicker that comes into the league it just i don't i hold back from talking about all of them because i know not everyone shares the passion that's fair right i do about that position it's a veteran move and meanwhile by the way and other special teams news involving the raiders marquette king who gruden said get the hell out of here bro he goes and he's fighting with some like radio station guy over Brandon Stokely. Brandon Stokely is a part of a radio team that interviewed Marquette King and now there's

like a war of words. That guy seems annoying. A little bit. Not Stokely. King. Maybe Stokely's annoying. I don't know. Moving on some sad news, former Philadelphia Eagles and Cleveland Brown's general manager

Tom Heckert passed away at the age of 51. The Broncos announced Monday. Most recently, he was a personnel executive with the Broncos from 2013 to 27. He had stepped away from the team following last season. He was ill. We had not heard a lot about how sick Hecker was, but obviously it was a very serious situation, and he is gone at the age of 51.

You know, we just talked about all of Cleveland's intense draft misses, but if you look at Tom Hekert, when he was there under Mike Holmgren, and that's largely seen as an unsuccessful stint because of the Brandon Wheat and Trent Richardson scenario, But these are the names that he brought in, Joe Hayden, T.J. Ward, Jabal Shear, Jordan Cameron, Buster Screen, Mitchell Schwartz, and Travis Benjamin. Each one of those players outside of Jordan Cameron remained largely,

and T.J. Ward, to some degree, largely productive and have had productive careers. I mean, imagine had he stuck around. He went on to Denver and was sort of hidden away in Denver, but this is sad news. A lot of people he hired in Philadelphia were still there and were part of that Super Bowl, you know, last year. I mean, he was back there in the early 2000s, and a lot of people like Howie Roseman worked underneath him. The disease he had is amyloidosis, which is what Matt Millen has. So best wishes to Matt Millen, this seems like it's going to be quite the battle.

In other news, the Arizona Cardinals are down a starting center. AQ Shipley has been diagnosed with the Torrenwright ACL. He is done for the season. It now falls on third rounder Mason Cole, who will be a starter, most likely. Shipley now heads into free agency at age 32 off a torn ACL, so a bad situation for him. Anything? Yeah. To me, what sticks out about this is Steve Wilkes has really emphasized all offseason. Everything starts up front. That's his new mantra. And one of the most bizarre opinions I've heard from a head coach this year is Steve Wilkes' opinion that the strength

of the Cardinals is the offensive line. This was an offensive line that was one of the biggest weaknesses in the league last year. They added Justin Pugh. They added Andre Smith, who was in and out at Cincinnati over the years, and they didn't do much else adding there. So I think to me, like, okay, the potential may have been the strength of the team, but that's neglecting to point out that almost every position on this offensive line comes with a huge question mark.

The Falcons have agreed to a three-year extension worth close to $20 million with defensive back Ricardo Allen, the free safety. had been in talks with the team for some time, and they get a deal done. So add another piece. Again, Mark, good franchises, have stability. He's a solid player. They've been really active.

They extended Matt Ryan, Jake Matthews, paid Julio Jones. I guess, Grady Jarrett, maybe the last name on the list here? Yeah, I think he should be next, and he's maybe the best player of all those guys. Ricardo Allen was one of the only memorable parts of a pretty quiet hard knock.

season. He came out of nowhere in that hard knock season. At the time, he was just trying to make the team. So this does show you, like, you can remake your career if you land in the right place. I didn't watch that hard knocks, but one of my few ever takeaways from Super Bowl media night was during the Falcons Patriots Super Bowl in that week leading up to it, Ricardo Allen, I looked at as kind of a fringe player who was lucky to be a starter. And you could tell just after that media night, he was one of the leaders of that defense. And now, another edition of Keeping Up a Bowringer. Yes, it is Maurice Bowringer, former draft pick of the Minnesota Vikings,

Germany product, trying to make his way in the NFL, didn't work out with the Vikings. So he caught on with who, Mark? Well, with the Cincinnati Bengals. The Cincinnati Bengals. And what is new with Mobo? What's new is he largely, I wouldn't say flamed out, just did not. materialized as a wide receiver and they have he added on some talents and our boy henry

Hodgson handsome Hank who is very apparently very invested in close friends with moe berringer noted that he added on tacked on some weight has now become a tight end for the bengals everyone and that was another edition of keeping up with bow I think that's my favorite sound drop Sneaky one of my favorite moments of the show I would just enjoy that did a podcast with Eric Jensen check it out I retweeted it last week

what's your favorite bit on the show those mobo updates really I had more too but we can leave it right there short and sweet handsome hanks in Brazil right now how about that? Wow and finally in the news Johnny Mansell made his CFL debut on Friday night

It could not have gone worse It went Nate Peterman bad Four interceptions and one half The Montreal Alwood's embarrassed by the team That Manzel was on before his trade That got him in the starting lineup He got benched I don't know when he gets in the lineup

I think this is the moment West Where we could probably detach from Johnny Until there's any reason In fact you could have made the argument I'm sure about judging by your body language West we could have done it today but it should be noted that Manzell imploded, and that's where we're going to leave him for now.

Well, in my notes for the show was one thing on Johnny Manzell, just when are we going to have a moratorium on Johnny Manzell? More like Boratorium. He is a front office killer because they gave up two first round picks and players for him to get a guy that a week later, two weeks later, is throwing four picks in one game. I'm just happy for a lesser league. I want to imagine the guy they benched for him, Vernon Adams.

He must have been loving it on the sideline. He literally said after he's Gino Smith. He said, he said, I don't want any Montreal fans basically to ever talk to him again. He will never forgive them for like booing him and saying they want Johnny. And he must have just been enjoying this. And I figure like the Montreal general manager, probably not maybe not long for the league. Where do you go after the CFL that doesn't go to like Iceland? I mean, Erica was recently attached to a football league.

went out and saw a Super Bowl. What about that league? I think it's for women only. Are the general managers all women? I don't think you're plugged into it. Do you know the internal schematics? I unfortunately don't have all the info on that. But shout out to the Boston Breakers, won the title.

Renegades. Okay, I just made it. The old Thanksgiving day game with your boys. That's his next league. Whoa. Montrell LHGM getting a drive-by here to close out the news. That's what's happening in the news. Oh, hey Dan.

Yes. Did you get your passport? No, not yet. You'd better get on that. You better get on that. Well, I ordered it. It just hasn't got it. You can travel abroad without a passport.

Obviously, I know. You can't travel to London without a passport. All right, now you're up. Hey, Dan. What? Better get your passport You're not going to London Without a passport

Are you dumb? You don't have it yet? That hasn't arrived yet. You don't just screw yourself. You screw all of us if you don't get a passport, by the way. Exactly. Where's yours, Wes? Oh, I've had mine.

Greg would have lost money thinking I'm the paperwork chump here. I have faith. You put it all in there. You know what? I would say, put it out there. It's up to the government. Put your faith in the U.S. government right now feels solid to me. Dan's distaste for other countries coming back to haunt him in a big spot.

I'm getting popped here right now, and I'm a little bit nervous. Thank you, of course, to the great, iconic Sidney Carlson. All right, let's get into a little Hall of Fame talk. That was like three Sydney Carlson. That was well done. There are no limits to her abilities. Let's move on and talk about the Hall of Fame 2018 inductions. Ray Lewis, Randy Moss,

Brian Urlocker, Terrell Owens, Jerry Kramer, Robert, Brian Dawkins, Robert Brazil, Brian Dawkins, Bobby Bethard, nice class, and a lot of stuff cooking with it, Mark. I know you were super plugged in. What was, like, kind of your, the biggest takeaway for you? Well, I know Greg watched this closely, too. I watched it yesterday on a repeat so I could fast forward through all the...

Humble by. Well, no, I mean, because I can't tolerate. I don't need it to be a five-hour-long show. Get to the meat of it. But I was kind of peaked by something that Ray Lewis brought up. I believe we have the sound for that if we could play that.

It was a wonderful ceremony, but this was an odd moment that got on my radar. Let's play. Oh, did we host that Lombard? And they tried to turn the lights out on us. Now, let's just be honest. Let's be honest.

If you grew up with me and my mama grew up in the project, your light might get turns off every Friday. But Beyonce had just performed. So something had to happen. They didn't just go out. I promise you didn't like this thing go out. But that's the way you're in the career. Okay, so the childhood comments are fine, and I've been

respect a lot where he's come from. But it's sandwiched by two comments about the lights going out during the Super Bowl against the Niners, where Ray Lewis is clinging to this theory, and this is what the oddest moment of the night in an otherwise very nice night in Canton, clinging to a theory that the NFL intentionally, because the Ravens were blowing the Niners out, turned the lights out in the Superdome in New Orleans to blow up the whole mood in that stadium and re-galvanize the game to get the Niners. back in and make it close.

Now, I think that's called an intense scarecrow. I mean, Ray Lewis's entire speech was madness. Yeah, that was like the 10th least, like most crazy thing he said over the weekend. Oh, no doubt. He also told reporters, he said, when I played crime was lower in Baltimore, it's like no one needed to be mad. Everyone just wanted to be happy and celebrate. Well, Dan found something too, didn't you?

What? A little humble brag from Ray Lewis. Oh, one of my favorite humble brags that has ever happened. And this is strange. ESPN had a scroll. Was this new? ESPN's scroll. I only watched it on NFL Network, so that was new.

Yeah, so ESPN has a scroll that allows the players, the inductees to, just to thank you. It's a way to get in names that maybe you otherwise aren't able to get to in the speech. And near the end of Ray Lewis's scroll underneath his speech, thank you to the president of Tanzania for allowing me to bring water wells to your people. That is the first ballot hall of fame, humble. Take out all humble breaks. And Greg's right. Mark's quote that he pulled probably wasn't even like close to crazy. Here's another one.

Come on, though. You tell me that's not an insane theory. No, that's an insane thing to say. The whole thing was crazy. Don't take it personally. He also talked about that he would run 15 to 20 miles to practice every day, high school football and wrestling. But he had a tape of Phil Collins is in the air tonight.

And he would just rewind it and listen to that song over and over. And then he concludes that story by going, I felt this coming in the air for a long time. What about the, I was like, what are you? What about the numerology at the top of the, top of the speech where he's saying how everything five and two and seven and it all connected to God? Just as like an exercise mark,

I thought, what if we took that quote we pulled and just added something underneath it? Because there was this manic crazed, almost dangerous energy to raise speech. Let me just try this. Did we host that Lombard? And they tried to turn the lights out on us. Now let's just be honest.

Let's be honest. If you grew up what me and my mama grew up in the project, your light might get turns off every Friday. But Beyonce had just performed. So something had to happen. have to have dangers go out i promise you didn't like this they go out this is scary scary but that's the way you're in the career what has happened i have the utmost respect for him as a player and i hope no one ever

sticks a microphone in front of his face again yeah he was sweating through that was too. I'm a sweater as well like he had not only sweat through the dress shirt he sweat through the entire jacket which I don't I've never seen that happen no that's tough to do but anyway so 33 minute long speech

am I right about that? That's a lot there needs to be for the sake of modern television in the viewership and where our habits are going no speech that's 33 minutes long well that's what my big takeaway best speech of the night easy was Robert Brazil who's not going to get a lot of like publicity from it

but like a writer, he sort of had a narrative device that carried him through the speech. Yes, well done. It was eight or nine minutes long. It had plenty of energy. It had a couple good jokes and he was happy to be there. It was delightful. So just congratulations for the best speech.

Take some notes from that, please. I think they suggest 15 minutes. And Ray, Ray, I used to say 12 was their maxing. People just blow by it. I think Lewis said before the speech that he was going way past that. So he let people know. And that's a lot of yelling and huffing and puffing over a half hour. Also, you're taking away from the other speakers when you're DEN or not that, not that everyone felt this way,

but when you're taking up that much speaking time, it just, to me, it's like, can you stop yourself at the door just a little bit, please? Which is taking nothing away from a brilliant career that he's had, but it was, he was on brand at this speech. Randy Moss, of course, got inducted and Bill Belichick, and this made news, Bill Belich. and Robert Kraft showed up, and I guess it was a surprise. I think we have sound related to that as well. Last but not least, I'm not going to forget about you. Bill Belichick, I'm not going to forget about you. I want to thank you for being a friend when it wasn't always about football.

You show me how much I love the game. You challenged me every day to go out here and be great. great. You challenged me to be great coach. And I'm sorry we did not bring it home. I picked this one and Greg, we didn't know you were going to be here. So we would have had you pick some sound by two. So let me ask you your thoughts on this. Because if you were, do you remember watching this point on television? Bill Belichick's eyes. I think Bill Belichick is the ultimate football historian and he's in Canton. And I honestly felt for him a little bit because you have these knuckleheads in the crowd

booing Bill Belichick that this is one place where he should not... It's almost respect though. I'm just, I'm going to jump in and say they're booing him. It was absolutely the Eagles fan. You know who it was. That's fine.

And it's just because he's so notorious and famous. I get that, I honestly saw a little bit of hurt in his eyes. Like, I thought that rapport was broken with him a little bit. I totally disagree with you, Dan, that he, I do think he felt something here. And I think it was just, it's something about it. I get that you're Eagles fans or what you're some gibronies out there that root for another.

team something about it did not fly with me well that's an interesting take and i should watch it again but the thing if it was breaking anything it was uh an intense sort of from within happiness that you normally don't see from bill bellichick i was i was surprised that bill belichick was the last person that randy moss mentioned and you could tell how much randy moss and bill belichick love and respect each other the the fact that he showed up there after a patriot's practice for a guy that was only there for a few years and the fact that Randy Moss brought it up last and when he was saying those words to Belichick you could just tell the smile on his face like how much that meant to hear from from another person he considers you know one of the greatest of all

and our guy Ben Liebenberg took an amazing photo of Kraft and Belichick and Moss together and do you remember that moment in the Belichick NFL network special where Moss is in his office saying kind of goading him on to come to that Halloween party that was kind of the relationship they had so it's interesting to think back on that I think Belichick changed not just the Patriots run that they had, but Belichick changed the way people thought about Randy Moss, because within a few months of him getting there, he said,

this might be the smartest football player I've ever coached. And a lot of people are pretty down on Randy Moss in general, and to hear that respect, and even when they traded Randy Moss, they were so much respect coming both ways. I think it helped change some of the appreciation for Moss that everyone has now that they just didn't have during his playing career. I still remember exactly where I was on the Upper West.

side of Manhattan when I found out the Patriots traded for Moss and it was, it was so obvious what was going to happen next that even though he had fallen off a little bit in Oakland, that with Brady and Belichick, that something crazy was going to go down. And to say the least, that happened. He had arguably, you could maybe throw in Jerry Rice and what was it, 88 or whatever, but the greatest season ever by a wide receiver. And that is, I thought that was a little bit poignant. I'm sorry, we couldn't bring it home.

of course a reference to Super Bowl and 18 and 1 and he would have had the game-winning touchdown catch had not if not for the late heroics by Eli and Plaxico so Belichick didn't just change the way people thought of Moss he changed the way writers covered him

writers gave him more respect after that. Terrell Owens did his ceremony in Chattanooga we already know what's behind it but he did confirm it was his reaction to not be in Canton was because the writers he felt punished him for not being a well-liked individual

or being someone that was not seen as playing the game the right way and all that stuff rather than basing it on what the Hall of Fame is supposed to base your eligibility on, which is just what you do on the field. And so that's why he did that. Wes, you wrote about that. I don't know if you had anything to add. Well, it was sort of, it was a speech that had its high points and low points to me.

Like, he made some really good points. And I do believe he wasn't a first ballot Hall of Famer because voters didn't do their job. Voters took into account things other than what happened on the field. They were wrong. He called him on that. On the other hand,

this is an intention-starved narcissist who is unwilling to address the self-inflicted nature of his own wounds. And I think it was Charles Robinson from Yahoo said he's a first ballot blamer. And he absolutely is a first ballot blamer. There were a lot of great moments in the speech, though. And I think the sound bites that ended up going

on Sports Center or NFL Network that night were about the writers and how they didn't let him in. But he had a lot of great moments where he gave credit to a lot of people. And everyone that's played with him has said no one questioned his work ethic. Like that he loved...

I don't think anyone has ever questioned. He loved the game of football. And if he did end this speech, I thought was interesting, kind of saying what he thought the speech was for or for people that were outcast and that had been picked on and bullied and that,

just didn't kind of get along with the rest of society. And that's how he sees himself. And certainly his childhood, if you know about it, had some rough times. And I do think the way he ended, it was poignant. And it meant a lot to him, you know? And I think it meant it to the people around it. But you also can't, you can't blame the media or anybody else for focusing in on those soundbites about it. Because that's what he made his entire Hall of Fame and the induction about being snubbed

and about his issues with the voters. So that he made it that story. It took guts, though. The thing that I didn't like was people saying he's missing out on all this. They know better. Like, you know, even Steve Marucci on our air was kind of almost saying, like, I feel sorry for him because he's missing out on that. And, like, that's not really being a friend. Like, if you really are a friend of Tio, someone that has a relationship, just support him in what he wanted to do.

That's what he wanted to do. It certainly wasn't easy to do that and just let him be. One little nugget about him, hours after this speech, he's trying out for the CFL's Saskatchewan. rough riders. Yeah. How many NFL Hall of Famers have wound up playing in the CFL after being announced in Canton? Sounds like a bit of a stunt, but apparently has a 4-440 speed still. I don't know if I buy that either, but that's just what's being floated.

I just asked that we stop with the martyr stuff. Like, he's not a martyr. And it really bothers me that he's attempting to rewrite who he was as a player. You were the one who hopped on the exercise bike with the sunglasses and the Lance Armstrong uniform and asked for the attention. You were the one who sat in the driveway and did sit-ups And knew you were making a circus You were the one who threw Donovan McNabb under the bus And we're a bad teammate

So don't tell me all this stuff didn't happen Tio And you brought that on yourself That very unsavory, unfair things about Jeff Garcia It's all fair You know Like the media didn't overblow the coverage He started all Well it was a mutually beneficial relationship

I remember watching NFL network Every day during that whole out That's the greatest holdout of all time The Eagles holdout Because there was, like, daily updates where something crazy would happen. Wouldn't they cover it the same way today? Oh, yeah. It would be even more people.

Sure, and it's entertaining, but it doesn't make you a good teammate. Anything else from the Hall of Fame, Mark? Jerry Kramer? I thought Kramer was, you know what? First of all, when I saw Kramer up there, I thought Kramer was in the Hall of Fame like 25 years ago. That was my first thought. It's like, I've been hearing about Jerry Kramer since I was 10 years old. But his speech was unbelievable, and I thought it was a good bit of,

for all the players today complaining about salaries, he talked about signing on with the Packers. First of all, when he got drafted, he had no idea where Green Bay was and had to look at a map with his relatives. Where is Green Bay? And then he had someone in his camp say, what is it I'm supposed to ask for as a salary?

The guy said, you ask for $8,000. And he went to the Packers, and they said, all right, one-year contract. What do you want? He said, absolutely. It's like he knew right then he'd been taken for a ride. And then he asked, and they said, you got a signing bonus too.

And he said, $250. They said, fine, and it wasn't a bonus. It just came out of his first paycheck. So I thought it was a look back at a completely different time. And that part of the show where they talked about Vince Lombardi, I thought that's what, it brought a whole pause to the entire proceedings. And you can say it's a little precious, but it was a nice moment for the Packers in Canton. A lot of listeners tweet asking for book recommendations.

Jerry Kramer wrote the first real football behind the scenes book with a player. He and Dick Shapp wrote Instant Replay in 1968, one of the best football books ever. Holds up really well now. Check out also one more July from Bill Curry and George Plinton, also about the same era of the Packers and Vince Lombardi. Both great football books. And getting drafted and then having to look up where you're going to play on a map is one of my favorite like Heroes Journey tropes.

Just love that story. All right. It feels like Steve Francis in Vancouver. No, I'm not saying he made it up, but it does pop up every once in a while. It's just a fun little trope. Hey, one second, guys. It's been a long off season without football, but Fandul has spent it getting into the best shape of their lives.

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because they pay out everyone, who hits a certain score. So all you have to do is finishing the money to split an equal share of the cat. Make some money. Where's our boy Joey Watts? Joey Watts. Greg's like itching right now.

His arms is like, sounds so good. Anyway, Fanduel also has new options for playing with your friends. Right now you can get a $10 bonus when you make your first deposit on Fanduel. Greg, where are you going? Just sign up at fanduil.com slash around the NFL.

That's Fandul.com slash around the NFL. age and state restrictions apply. All right, before we go, yes, we teased it at the top of the show. It's been a while since we heard from one of our great friends, one of the great satellites of the Around the NFL podcast. I don't know if he's at his haunted mansion in New Jersey right now, but let's hope that he is. Connor Orr, what's up, buddy?

Yo! Yeah. Hey, now. Hey, man. Oh. God, I miss your voice. I miss you guys. What's going on?

What is going on, Connor? What's new? You know, just living life, man. It's still haunted, you know? Is it still haunted? Like, you got the mortgage and everything. Everything is the same right now. I know you have a different job,

so I don't know if anything else has changed in your life since we last spoke. I would say the only major change is that at the peak of summer heat, my air conditioner has exploded. So that's really about it. I mean, you also have a daughter. a child, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's true. And there ain't no landlord.

There ain't no landlord to call about that AC unit either, is there, Connor? No, you just kind of, you know, you go out there with like a wrench and you pretend that you know what you're doing and then you come back in 10 minutes later and you're like, ah, you know, couldn't fix it. But you don't even touch it because you don't know. That checks out. How's the lakehouse? That's it, yeah.

That's it? Good. So, Connor, I wasn't aware. you had a lakehouse but he lives in a it's essentially a lake house so there's a lake in town right close by it's in my backyard yeah yeah but it's haunted let's stick to the haunt we we want to stick to the i had no idea there was a body of water and now that i know that you definitely have like the the lady in 1800s like white gown apparition above the lake at midnight every night oh please definitely going on anyway all right so connor usually when you come on we you know we get wacky

we get a reverent we do maybe a or you kidding me segment or you know whatever but you're doing really good work over at s i peter king said i'm out of here bro peace but you're still there and and and you have continued to grind it's grind 30 for you at s i you wrote a really good piece about a week ago about the oakland raiders and specifically john gruden um about how things It's one of the great polarizing debates, both in this room and in the NFL. The subplot is how will John Gruden take in the NFL in 2018? And you spoke, Connor, with a lot of players from his Tampa Bay days, and it wasn't all sunshine and roses.

Well, I thought, like, it was one of my favorite conversations because I was talking to Chris Sims, and he's like, yeah, you know, I had a lot of issues with that guy because eight months after I almost died on the field. he tried to cut me. And then, like, three minutes later, he's like, but he's an all right guy. You know, I mean, like, but everything is okay. But, so it kind of represents this, like, really strange, like, Stockholm syndrome that all of his players had under him.

Yeah, I think it hit on a great point. It is a great piece, the Bucks piece, because talking about, you know, talking to the former Bucks players and kind of like, how is that going to fly? Is he going to adjust that approach? because I think it burned him in Tampa. People, the players, I think, eventually stopped kind of believing what he was selling because they could be, as you wrote about really well, so nice to their face and then cut them or kill them in front of the media.

And it just seemed to like be a lack of trust. And now maybe you're seeing that a little bit in Oakland too? For sure, yeah. I mean, we've already, you know, the right away, you know, to get rid of Marquette King, to quote had an example, and then to say that Khalil Mack, the defense wasn't even good when they had them, and then, you know, like, he's been calling out, like, a steady stream of players, but what's weird about his approach is he loves veteran guys because they're easier a coach and you can get hit the ground running faster, but he also loves talking crap about players,

and that's the one thing that veterans hate, like they want to come in, take care of their business, and leave the facility and go home and not have their coach, like, taking pot shots. You wrote in like a bullet of what kind of like his greatest hits and tools. He uses the media as a tool to pressure and motivate. And that's exactly what he did with Martavis Bryant in the news right now. He's a guy that's getting tweaked big time. And I think that something that I like that you wrote and what makes him kind of interesting and maybe hard to pin down, you wrote he's neither cold and distant enough to be Belchecky nor warm and engaging enough to be Pete Carroll.

So he's kind of a man without a country or he was by the end of his Tampa Bay. tenure. It's about, I guess, whether he learned or not, during that time away, the right temperature with the team. Yeah. And I just don't think, at least now, like, it doesn't strike me that it's any different, right? Like, it's like, yeah, we're going to go to Hooters and eat wings and, like, say terrible things about everybody and run the fullback offense. And, like, it's almost like Trumpian the way that he's like, we're going to do all the stuff we did 20 years ago, and everyone's like, cool, but I don't think anyone's thinking practically, like, not a lot of this is going to work out.

I mean, one thing... Make the Raiders great again. Like, Connor, when he came to Tampa Bay, obviously inherited a very good team, one that was on the cusp of, you know, going to the Super Bowl with a lot of pieces in place, and he was able to carry that at the distance. And then, to Greg's point, I think the Tampa Bay sort of fell apart from there. And the thing that we thought the Gruden was so great at, which was developing quarterbacks really never happened after the Super Bowl. And it was almost that his stint with

Monday Night Football in the media almost rehabbed the image of John Gruden and made him this alluring, you know, distant prospect that you'd want to bring in as a coach. But did you talk to any players that said, yes, he has all these character traits that are impossible to deal with, but almost like with a Belichick, he's really, he's not the most fun guy, but there's this football acumen and this thing that the team can lean on that will save us every time. Do you get a sense that people feel like Gruden, the football coach, beyond the person, is something that's such, that is worth a 10-year contract at this incredible amount of money? Well, it's interesting. First, like, all the players that I talk to, or 90% of the players

that I talked to all thought that the media thing was a rehab tour. They said, like, he was not well-liked by fellow coaches, by players, and this was a great way for him to sort of reshape his image, which you can do on TV. I mean, we've all seen that, and it's entirely possible. One thing that I will say that a lot of people have said about him, though, is that schematically he is that smart. He is able to do things. You know, Jeff Garcia told me they would implement something, and then three weeks later see another team running it.

It made their lives better. It made their lives easier. The only problem was when it came to the game, he would always sort of regress a little bit and play more small ball because he had a great defense, and Oakland's going to be very different now because this is a team that needs to score 40 points a game to win. Hey, Connor, after researching and writing this and then hearing sort of his comments

throughout the offseason and the moves they've made to bring in some guys and get rid of others, do you have a dramatically changed opinion on what you expect from the Raiders this year after doing this? Well, a little bit, and it's not good. It's just, you know, it seems like he came in immediately, and his kind of MO was always he was going to cut, you know, the guys that he didn't want to deal with. He was going to bring in older veteran players that could pick up the system. And, you know, that's exactly what he did.

I mean, Jordy Nelson's in his 30s. You know, he got rid of Michael Crabtree, and, you know, he's playing with a fullback again. And it's like, you know, I think that maybe conceivably this could work at some point. I think the only thing to his favor is that he has shortened his play calls, which a couple players have told me used to be gargantuan, like, 30-word play calls, now very short, very concise. So maybe he's adapting a little bit to the times, but still, this is a young man's game,

and he's really kind of loading up on older veteran guys. That was his whole shtick on ESPN going through the play calls and all the nonsense, and now he hits the scene and decides to truncate that. Where do you think Reggie McKenzie, the general managers, and all this, because it feels like he had a powerful voice in that organization, and Gruden comes in and sort of trumps everything that was built there and just is making these decisions to reshape it in his image? I don't know. I'd be pretty, you know, I mean, every, every relationship right when you first get there, like, you know, it reminds me when Rex Ryan got to, or, you know, when John had got to the Jets and everyone's like, oh, these guys don't get along, fine, him and Rex Ryan. Like, nothing bad is going to be possibly happen. But it's true. I mean, John and Reggie are very different people. I'm sure they see their team in a very different way. And, you know, it's going to be interesting to see how this fills out.

I don't think, you know, no one's rooting for this to work more than us. I think that having Gruden be successful in this league would be good, but I think that it's healthy to be a little skeptical of how this is going to happen. Finally, Connor, are you happy? I'm very happy. Like one to ten. Where are you at? What's that?

One to ten. Like ten, you couldn't be happier. One, you got poop in your pants. I would say like if it wasn't for the air conditioning I'd be in the left I'd be through the roof wow but I'm probably like an eight right now it's good I don't feel I do I texted you I think a couple weeks ago for an or are you kidding me and I would like to remain in that capacity but there's a lot less pressure when you know I don't have to come on and scream about something you know this in general just feels like

a really like Connor or at peace and maybe it's because we're not making you do it or are you kidding me, but I feel like you're in a good place in life. He's got the house. He's got the lake, you know. He's got it all, Greg. He clearly likes the job better than the one he had at the NFL. Sounds like a much better job. Old Peter King isn't swinging his elbows around, so he's gone, you know.

You still hate Seinfeld, though. Is that clear? You still cannot stand the concept of the Seinfeld franchise. Yeah, it's funny you said that. I texted one of my friends is a Seinfeld Superfan the other day, and there was a marathon on, and I said, I'm going to watch five episodes. So I'm going to text you. I'm going to tell you how many times I laugh once.

You were hate watching it. Yeah, that's... I love five, though. You weren't just dipping in for five or ten minutes. It's five episodes. What made you laugh? Just out of curiosity. I think after a while, like, you know, the 30th time that Kramer just, like, blasts in the door

and does that same old, like, shaky thing where he's, like, it looks like an alcoholic. That got me, like, the prettiest time. I was like, okay. firing shots here. I couldn't even give him that. Jerry doesn't need anything else either. He's happier than all of us. But, all right, Connor, you are, you're a great man.

You could be followed on Twitter at Connor Orr. That is one N and two R's. And he once upon the time went through all of our bios to see how fluffy they were on Twitter. Yours reads Connor Orr is a staff writer for Sports Illustrated in the MMQB. He might have elbowed out Peter King. I like to think that's what happened. Feels that way.

Who knows who's in his way next? Who's in his way next? We'll have some bus tracks all over his back. You've exposed my Machiavellian tendency for all to see. All right, Connor. Good talking you, buddy. Bye, guys. See you.

Hey, Connor. Miss that guy. All right, we're out of here. We'll be back on Wednesday with another show, including our first Hard Knocks Recap. How exciting is Dan Hansus. Signing off for Quiet Storm, The Mailman.

the old boss and the loose cannon behind the glass till Wednesday.