NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Bucs-Falcons TNF Classic with Gerald McCoy and Most Intriguing Defenses with Ron Rivera

Episode Date: October 4, 2024

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by former Buccaneers DT Gerald McCoy to recap a thrilling Thursday Night Football matchup between the Buccaneers and Falcons. The guys start the show by discussing the wild finish to the game (02:06) and Kirk Cousins' play (07:03). Gerald talks about what it's like to play through the ups and downs of back-and-forth game (13:10) before the guys give Buccaneers fans reason to be optimistic (18:40) and make a case for Mike Evans to be a first-ballot Hall of Famer (23:39). After the break, Gregg talks with Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic and former NFL HC Ron Rivera about the most fascinating defenses of 2024 including the Vikings (35:00), Broncos (45:40), and Bears (51:47). Plus, Ron discusses what Jayden Daniels has done for the Commanders and gives his Coach of the Year candidates (56:05).  Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. So now 902 to play in the overtime, London off the field. Here's Mooney in motion with cousins, and they're going to gun it, and it's caught to Darrell Hodges, 35-3. Take it, baby. Johnny, the K-10-5-Benzhen. Drive home safely.

Oh, my goodness. Welcome to the game, Kaderl. Are you serious? A walk-off for Kandaril Hodge and the Falcons. Welcome to NFL Daily. Yes, we are serious. Kirk Cousins just did that. 36 to 30.

The Falcons get it done in overtime. That was West Durham on WZ. G. C. I am here tonight. And Dave Archer, too, by the way. Joined by A Legend of the Game, one of the best players in Buck's history. He's shaking his head right now. Gerald, I wanted to deliver a better ending for your Buccaneers here, but that was one hell of a football game that they lost tonight. Sorry about that. Man, we as Buccaneers just don't have great fortune on Thursday night versus a foul. I said it before the game.

I had us picked, but for some reason, on Thursday night versus these freaking Falcons, man. There's something about this Kirk Cousins, Falcons, team in overtime, but it's every Kirk Cousin's team. It was back when he was with Washington. It's back, obviously, with Minnesota. It's these crazy primetime games he played. The difference is lately he's been winning them. What a wild ending to this game.

Yeah, you hate to see it as a Buccaneer fan, player, coach, whatever. you hate to see the way it ended, but as a fan of football, freaking incredible game. What a way to end it, man. Atlanta fought for that one. I give them that. When you lose those type, you just got to let them have it, man. They earn that one.

Yeah, this is seriously testing your professionalism, having to come on right after. Yeah, for sure. But I'm a professional, Joe. I got to do what I got to do. Yeah, of course, Gerald McCoy on Game Day Morning on NFL network, the great podcast that he has with Kyle Van Nuoy. He's popping up on Gil's Arena over at Underdog. So he is doing it all. And yeah, we're going to break down

this game bit by bit. But we got to start at the end. And I think the end of regulation is what strikes me. For a second, Falcons fans think Jesse Bates did it once again. He saved our team, this guy who's one of the best defensive players at safety I've ever seen, forces a fumble with the peanut punch while the buccaneers are driving up three with under three minutes to go or so and gives the Falcons another chance and you think, oh, that's going to be the key play. But what do the Falcons do? They don't go three and out. They go four and out. They go backwards. They go for it on fourth and 15. And your former teammate, the ageless Levante Davis, picks off a pass, at that point, what are you thinking as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a,

a buck? Well, one, Levantay's freaking incredible, you know, that's what he does, very timely plays. And he was due for one. Tate was due for a pick. But, you know, in that instance, you're like, well, all right, we good to go. Oh, here we go. Way to go, Levanté, yeah, he did it. And then that happens.

Then that happened. You got her cousins on the screen behind you. Let's actually listen to our friend Gene Deckerhoff's call of that Levanti David interception, which I thought was going to be the call we went into this highlight with. Well, the Falcons are going to go for the fourth down for the third time tonight. They need to reach the 35-yard line. Buck's guilty of a pass interference.

The last time it was fourth of law. popping back that though Kirk Cousins, Kirk Cousins, has time, those have all up there. It's intercepted, picked off by Levanté David, and the Buccaneers have the football. First take away by the Buccaneers tonight, Levanté David answers the bell again. Yeah, that's WFUS, and that helps remind me.

There's under a minute and 50 seconds left at that point. I thought it was the smart decision by Rahim Morris to go for. His fourth-down decisions in this game, I think were good overall and mostly helped him. He went for a fourth and three that led to a field goal around midfield in the second half. He knew it was an offensive game. He went for another fourth down in the red zone. I think that led directly to a touchdown when most people probably would have taken the points

in a situation where they could have tied it up. And then there he goes for it. I think that makes sense because it gives you two chances to win the game. And I go back to this point because you just can't go backwards at that point. And to me, of all the mistakes you could point out, because this was a great offensive game for the most part from both these teams, both these quarterbacks, they don't go anywhere.

They throw a pass that goes a little backwards, and then they have a holding call, which actually knocks them out of field goal range. It was tough to see, Gerald, because your offense is looking awesome. Baker Mayfield is playing great. And Liam Cohen, your offensive coordinator, has been on one in the last couple of weeks.

I spoke about before the game. I did a couple of interviews before the game. game and I said that the good teams find a way to win and the buccaneers have been on the wrong end of these too many times and what happens is at the end of the game it's technique time it's where you do your job and you can't have untimely penalties and everybody has to do their job and the technique has to be has to be right man it's just untimely things can cause you to lose games and that's why they say the NFL is a game of inches because one wrong decision, one wrong step to the right, one interception, one holding, and the game changes. And that's what

happened. Yeah, it's really crazy because you train all offseason. You have all these injuries in this game. You train all week. And then yeah, it just comes down to a couple little things. That drive I was talking about, Rashid White loses three yards. Had a big run in this game. but the running game was a little up and down. Buck Irving had that fumble. He then picks up seven yards, but you have a penalty on your first round pick, Graham Barton, and then they throw another pass to Rashid Wright

that loses yardage and they kick it off. At that point, I mean, they punt it away. At that point, the Falcons have the ball at the 20 with no timeouts needing three to tie. Kirk Cousins, who, by the way, set an all-time record for Falcons passing yards, with five hundred and nine yards. Yes.

Like we wouldn't make the proper adjustments. I don't know what the heck we was doing. He was finding those holes in our zone all night, all night. And we watched what he just did a couple weeks ago to Philly. And same thing. This one was a little different, though, because, man, he looked like a different, because, again, it's all out of the pistol. It's all in shotgun.

It's not what you used to him with play action. and under center, but he was throwing it into some tight windows. A lot of times I was like, that's good coverage. And those are just good throws that he had some great anticipation. Darnell Mooney dropped a huge one in the fourth quarter that looked like a big play. But a lot of great throws into tight windows. Drake London had a monster game. My guy from Tulane, Darnell Mooney goes nine for 105 and two touchdowns. London gets 154. But there's Kirk Cousins with the ball at the 20. When he has it there in about a minute, 20 left, no timeouts. what are you thinking are you confident your buck's defense is going to stop him if i'm being

honest no i mean freak you ain't stopped them all again so you know at that point you just you want to you know sacks um they're drive killers you know and and i said before the game in the interview that curt is one of those people who are flammable and that place is extremely electric. So if you let a guy like Kirk Cousins gets comfortable and he gets relaxed and what he's doing he'll kill you. 509 yards ago

we see you got what I said should happen. They got to get Kirk Cousins uncomfortable early. Get him out of his rhythm. Okay. Get him uncomfortable. Get them moving.

That's when Kurt starts to make bad decisions. That's when Kurt starts to get flustered and be all over the place. He never got uncomfortable tonight. So when you go into a final drive where he needs to get a field goal, I'm not overly confident that we're going to get this stop. Now, I'm wishing and hoping, but overly confident, no, I wasn't. No, and they had just lost, yeah, yeah, Diabi. It's worth pointing out Jordan Whitehead, their safety got hurt in this game. They came into it already short-handed, missing a handful of players, Collijah Cancy, Antoine Winfield. We're talking the best bucks player. So I think if you're a bucksbacker, there's some positives here that you're

going to get healthier on defense and your offense is looking great. But you're feeling even better if you're a Falcons fan because you've managed the beginning part of this season, which was very challenging well, especially with these late comebacks in prime time. I'll say, okay, so in that drive, Cousins, eventually he has a couple short passes, one to Mooney, one to Pitts, one to McLeod. then he gets the ball around midfield, third and one, 21 seconds left. He throws it in completion where Zion McCollum, who's been great all season, bats the ball down. I'm thinking there's only 12 seconds left.

They are in deep trouble. Let's listen to the play call there because most of us watching are thinking they have to go to the sideline here. Instead, they go over the middle. Snap to Cousins. He's looking to cut it loose quick, does. In the middle of the field, that's London. Eight seconds.

It's seven, six. Atlanta runs to the line now. Newzel up over the football. Three, two, spike it. They did it with one to go. Wow. That, to me, was the play right there. I was expecting the defensive players to just kind of get in the way. I know they didn't want to get a penalty or anything, but that thing happened fast, Gerald. I get that, but you got to do something. Like, when you tackle them, just hold them for a second.

Because you know you only got a few seconds. They have no timeouts. And just hold him for just to say, just lay on him. Like on a regular play, if you lay on a guy for too long, nobody pays any attention. So do the same. It's like he still has to get his, he still has to get his leg free.

And then boom, we got it. But again, Atlanta earned this one. They earned us when we didn't do what was necessary to win the game. and that was another example of, you know, one second. It was absolutely crazy. We've got a comment. If you are watching live on YouTube, yes, send us some comments. Andre Kuna says, dude, this is amazing.

Having a former player live react to the game so proud of you, Greg. I mean, I'm proud to have on Gerald, too, you know, a great buck. Did they put you in the ring of honor yet? They got to get on that. I don't even know it to do that. I would love if they did. Three-time all pro. you know, one of the best defensive tackles of the last two decades, Gerald McCoy and someone

I really enjoyed watching. But I got to admit, Gerald, the initial kernel of this idea to have you on actually came on a morning. I was on the couch with my son, and I'm thinking, I got to get someone for that Falcons Bucks game. My son is nine years old. And my boy Walker, he goes, you got to get Gerald. I was like, Gerald. I was like, oh, yeah, that would be great. And I'm like, you're on a first name basis with him? I didn't know that. He's like, oh, I love Gerald. He's my favorite on game day morning.

I'm at work at that point. I love it. Walker, that's my guy. Yeah, and we're actually, we might hear from Walker a little later. Yeah. So, Youngwee Koo at that point, I'm circling back to the end of regulation, nails a deep kick. It was an up and down night for Koo.

He missed a short one early. And then he hits the long one. to send it to overtime. He also had a field goal blocked in a situation where I thought maybe Rahim Morris would go for it on fourth and six in the second half. I mean, there were so many ups and downs in this game. When you're a player like in the game and there's so many swings of who's in control, and the bucks were mostly in control in this game, but it was going back and forth in that fourth quarter. Are you guys like riding that roller coaster or how does that?

feel because there are so many different moments in this game where I was like, oh, Falcons are going to lose. Oh, Falcons are going to win. No, you can't, man. You have to stay even kill because it's a game of momentum shifts. You know, and if you ride the wave, then mentally, one, it'll drain you for sure. So by the time the game is, when it's crunch time, you need to be at your best. You'd be so mentally drained because you're riding a wave of emotions. You can't do it. You got to stay even kill. Regardless of what happens is next play, next play. Interception, next play, sack, next play. Incomplete, next play, first down, next play. It's a next play mentality. You have a next man up mentality. So

if somebody goes down, next man up. That's how you got to play the game and two is over. So the fans, they can ride the way with emotions. We're, we as players, we're allowed, but we shouldn't. Yeah. So technically we're not allowed to. Right. And they, like, there were just so many ups and downs. You go back to the first half, and to me, the story of the game at the time was, like, neither team could get any pressure. The Falcons are just sending tons of blitzes, and they're not getting near Baker-Mayfield at all.

And that's why it felt like it might have come down to who won that coin toss. I know they put the rule in that you got to score a touchdown, but I was like, man, I kind of like either of these teams to go score a touchdown right now. Falcons get the coin toss. They go to overtime, and then, yeah, Kirk Cousins gets it done again. He ends up 42 of 58 for 509 yards, four touchdowns, and that interception to David. The crazy thing, Gerald, is I have some next-gen stats here. He only threw four play action passes.

He only threw one pass outside the pocket. So that's 57 passes. This guy is not moving. He's just sitting back there. that is surprising to me I thought that was going to be a problem for this team but he showed I guess you can you can make it work can you make it work

with a quarterback that immobile you shouldn't be able to and it goes to it's a testament to what I said this past week on game day morning the buck struggled to rush with four you know and if

when you blitz you take people out of coverage and if you do that against the wrong person this can happen So when you take people out of coverage and you're trying to rush with four, but you're not playing great zone in the back end or great in the back end, you'll get picked apart. Shouldn't be able to throw that many times from the pocket and be able to pick somebody apart. Sometimes you have to get out the pocket, but they wasn't making Kirk move enough,

and we just got to get more coordinated up front. Now, we did get to the quarterback more this week than we have in past weeks. Well, not last week, but weeks prior to. But just sitting in the pocket like that, we got to get him off his spot, man. And that's why I said we had to get Kurt uncomfortable, and he wasn't uncomfortable back there. That's why he was just sitting back just picking us apart. Yeah, he ends up, you know, finding Cadaral Hodge on that play. There was a huge third down to Drake London.

Drake London is an absolute boss. I think he's kind of having his moment. Tell me what you think about Drake London. He's really good, man. you got some guys who just need the right person throwing him the ball, but somebody that's just truly skilled at what he does, great hands, a really good route runner.

You know, he's just a baller and he's consistent. That's what you want. When you want, looking for a guy, you need somebody who's consistent regardless of who's throwing him the ball. And that's what Drake Lundner has been. That's why getting a Kirk Cousins drafting the Michael Pennick so early

because you know you got pieces. You just got to get the right person to get him the ball. Great thing is, Kurt Cousins has been playing very well, so you don't have to rush Michael Pinnock into the lineup. He can sit back and he can learn. But as he's learning and getting better, you got Drake London, who's improving and getting better. So when Michael Pinnock do come into the lineup,

now you got a dynamic duo that's going to be extremely scary. Add B. John Robinson to it. And I hate that Atlanta figured out that throwing Michael Pitz, the ball actually works. I hate they figured it out tonight. I wish they would have figured it out next week, not, not tonight. Jeez, man. That's the thing.

Like, Kirk has been getting a little better mostly each and every week, but this was different. Yeah, you mentioned Kyle Pitts gets a 32-yard, nice pass up to sea. I mean, a lot of it was just nice throws. Kirk, he's always thrown a pretty football. Yeah, Taylor's in watching on YouTube says, Kirktover is here. He has been an October monster. He gets Hodge involved.

Ray Ray McLeod, who's been in the league. minute goes six for 66. I mean, my guy, I've always thought Darnell Mooney is a fantastic player. He knows how to get open. He just, he's kind of like, like a very, very, very poor man's Antonio Brown in that like the quarterback doesn't always know exactly where he's going to be. He's just going to be open somewhere. And so that's been a problem for him, but he was great tonight other than that job. We should give the buck some love though. So I was mentioned in the first half of that game when the Falcons are sending a ton of pressure, a ton of blitzes, not getting any pressure on And Baker's back there cooking.

I mean, Baker only wound up with 24 passes in this game, but very efficient, 180 yards, three touchdowns. They're moving the ball down the field. Your old teammate, Mike Evans, he just, he's getting it done very physical, a couple touchdowns, nice routes by Liam Cohen. Like, this offense, I think, has a lot to feel good about. Bucky Irving goes 9 for 44. Rashid White, Rashad White goes 10 for 72.

Godwin's looked better this year. Like, this is a better Bucks offense than I expected this season. Yeah, and what it is is when everybody was saying Atlanta was the favorites to win this division, it was because of how it looked on paper. And I said there's no substitution for chemistry. And that's what the Bucks have had with Baker Mayfield. See, the time put in, there was... All the other rosters were new.

You know, they were trying to develop timing and new guys in, new coordinators, this, this, and this, the bucks have the same people, you know, and Baker, the chemistry he was able to build with Mike Evans and Chris Galvin last year and Rashide White, I knew it was going to carry over because Baker, there's nobody more dangerous than a person who has the belief of his organization or the players around him. and they believe in Baker Mayfield, and that's what he was looking for. He had a great season last year, almost one comeback player of the year. So I knew coming into this year, the offense was going to be even better.

And you see in the chemistry he has with Chris Godwin over the first five weeks, you see, Mike is just Mike. Mike has been Mike since he got in the league. But having a quarterback that you have chemistry with, that's why this offense is flowing away is flowing. We just couldn't get it done tonight. Yeah, it was fantastic in the first half. they did have a three and out to start the second half,

and then that three and out at the end in the fumble, there just was no margin for error. You can't fault an offense when they have six scoring drives out of nine. I mean, the offense played well, but there was just no margin for error. It really reminded me of that lion's Seahawks game. Suddenly, offense is back in the NFL. The difference this time is Gino kept scoring and scoring,

and the lions kept responding. There was a moment here where the box offense stopped, responding. The Falcons did a lot good. They made the Falcons, the Bucks defense struggle with tempo at time. That's something you can do with the veteran quarterback. But look, these two teams are three and two. Jared, I believed in your Bucks. Before the season, I picked them to win the division. For many of the same reasons, you said, and I just think, if you just look at their top 10 players, is like, they actually are a very talented team. You know, they have a lot of

high quality players. And then I thought the continuity with Todd Bowles, on defense and for the offensive players. I wanted to see what Liam Cohen looked like, but I think that's worked out well. This is a fun division, the NFC South. They're both three and two. The Saints are pretty frisky. They're going to be in Kansas City on

Monday night. Like, hey, I want to say a message to the schedule makers. I'm sure you agree with this back when you were a player. We don't need to just put the NFC South in primetime at the beginning of the season when we're opposite baseball. We should be putting NFC South in prime time all the time. It's a good time. There's no division

quite like the NFC South. Yeah, and the crazy part is a lot of people thought the NFC South would be like one of the worst divisions going into the season. But Atlanta, they're fighters.

New Orleans is better than we thought. Carolina is all over the place, but, you know, you got the buccaneers who obviously have been playing great up to this point. Even tonight, the game was not like neither team played bad. There was just no margin for like you said, and I said before the game, like, we can't go kick field goals.

We got to go get points versus Atlanta, especially on Thursday night. Man, I don't know what it is. There's a couple things. Atlanta on Thursday night and our cream sickle freaking jerseys. It's like, it's something about those cream fickle jerseys. Atlanta on Thursday night with the buccaneers, man. It's just, I don't know what it is, man. I don't believe in curses or anything like that, but it ain't been great for us over the last 10 or

years. Well, you get a chance to, yeah, maybe put the creamsicles on and beat, beat Atlanta back in Tampa. I don't know. Later in the season, that'll end up. No, please don't wear them. Okay. I'm not an advocate for them. We just, we just, we lose in them. Stop wearing them. And the funny thing is the glazers are superstitious. So if we keep losing in these, stop wearing them. Please. I love it. All right. So before we let you go here, I do have a couple little items. I did want to give some love, again, to your former teammate who, man, he's building a Hall of Fame case like you did during your career. Let's listen to Mike Evans, have a big time noteworthy touchdown earlier in this game. The books line up and a shotgun set with two receivers wide to the left, one to the right.

Baker Mayfield, belt high, snap, looks, looks, looks, those the ball toward the end zone. He's got Evans, he's got it. Touchouts, have a Bay. Evans has two. Welcome to Atlanta number third. That's a hundred career touchdowns, Gerald. 100. Man, that was a cold-blooded route. And Mike, Mike is funny, man. Mike do some stuff where you like, Mike, that didn't mean nothing to you? He was like, man, whatever.

You know, I just, you know, he's just Mike always shrug everything off. But he really loves what he does. He puts the working time in. He learned from a great mentor and Vincent Jackson, rest of the piece of Vincent Jackson. He taught him how to be. what we used to call the Ultimate Pro, which is what Vincent Jackson was. You know, when Mike first came into the league, he was a chubby kid from Texas. You know, a big body could play the game.

He was a little chubby fat face. Then he realized, okay, let me get my body in shape. Let me take care of myself so I can play longer. I can sustain this level of play for a long period of time. And that's what Mike has done. He's a measure of consistency. If you need consistency, put Mike Evans, pitcher right next to it and he's just been incredible man and he said that he wanted his

hundredth catch the ball he wanted his hundredth catch receiving touchdown i mean that was his hundred touchdown he wants his hundredth receiving touchdown that's the ball he's going to keep because he just keep giving the ball away okay that's a that's a good point there was i think a fumble recovery touchdown in here yeah it's it's badass it's one of the cool things about the bucks that Baye has been there for a while. Godwin, you were with Godwin for a couple of years too. His rookie year, I was there. Yeah.

And he's consistent. And it's really been cool, actually, because I really loved him in his first few years in the league, just what he could do after the catch. And you could tell the injuries for a couple of years affected him. But he looks like he's all the way back. He's in a contract year. He's going to get paid again like that. They are a lot to deal with.

They were missing, actually. They're number three and number four receipts. tonight, and then another receiver went down. So like I said, I think both of these teams get out of the first five games of the season, feeling pretty good. I mentioned my buddy Walker, speaking of Mike Evans, my son Walker is a fan of yours. And so it's his bedtime. He's gone.

We're not letting him stay up to watch the end of the game or watch this show. But he did want to send a little message to you. So we're going to listen to that now, Gerald. Hi, Mr. McCoy. I like your show on Sunday mornings, and I have a question for you. Is Mike Evans going to be in the Hall of Fame? From Walker. I love it, man.

I love it. I'm a dad's dad. I'm a family man to my core. I got five kids, man. And I was just at a carnival earlier with my 10-year-olds and my 5-year-old. So, man, hearing that little voice, I'm so used to hearing it. It's incredible to hear from Walker. And Walker, to answer your question, yes, I think we question whether Mike Evans should be

in the Hall of Fame or not. And the question should be, should he be a first ballot or not? But Mike Evans, for sure, Mike Evans for sure is a Hall of Famer, Walker. You are a Hall of Famer from Gerald and his family to you guys. we love you so much, Walker, and I definitely appreciate your question and all your love and your support. Yeah, he's a big fan,

and he's going to have smile ear to ear when we wake up tomorrow, and I'll play him that. That is awesome. Tough night for your bucks. Appreciate the professionalism. The very last thing we're going to do here, Gerald, is we actually are going to give a little bit of love

to someone you went against. I do on this night where they honored Matt Ryan we are just going to listen to just one little clip from a guy that you've faced off against. To the Falcons fans, Atlanta has become my home. You have become my extended family. I want you to know it was the thrill of a lifetime to be your quarterback. Every day I was trying to be. best I could for this organization and for you. I will never have another job that I love as much

as the one I had here. So that's, that's a guy, Matt Ryan, that you went against. It's making me feel old a little bit that Matt Ryan's going to the Ring of Honor and Roddy White's up there. And do you have any, any Matt Ryan, you know, facing off against Matt Ryan, what that was like story? Yeah, I love Maddie Ice, man. And calling him Maddie Ice is like a Cardinal Sin for a, you know, for an opponent, but I love him to death. Matt Ryan is one of the best competitors I ever face. And Matt Ryan is actually where I learned to turn flammable. I used to use he's flammable, man, and he was one of those people. When he gets started, if you don't, if you don't stop him early, he's flammable, especially in that building. And that's why I knew

that building is so electric, who's ever a quarterback. And I faced off against two guys that were there at the same time. I faced off against him and Roddy White, but also freaking Julio Jones. So I had to deal with all that over my time in Tampa, man. But Maddie Ice, everything he's getting, he deserves. He for sure should put on that gold jacket with Mike Evans, along with Julio Jones and my buddy, Levanti David, and, you know, it's just been a, it was a great run playing against Maddie Ice. Actually, when my last game as a Buccaneer was versus the Falcons. And I had a feeling, wasn't too sure if I was coming back and not, but I had like a little

inkling. So I told Maddie Ice, I said, hey, listen, this may be my last time in the NFC South. Can I have your jersey? And he signed it for me. I got Matt Ryan's jersey, man. And a freaking incredible career as Atlanta Falcon, love competing against Maddie Ice. Yeah, I mean, I just think of how he came into the league. I remember his very first game.

him having this crazy drive at the end to get it done. And that was his career, although I got to say not to annoy both fan bases here, when the Bucks backed up out of field goal range in that spot, it reminded me so much of the Falcon Super Bowl after Julio made that catch that should go down in history as one of the greatest catches of all time and that one of the greatest throws of all time in the Super Bowl and they're in field goal range and they're probably going to win it. And then they get a whole. holding penalty to back them up and they give the Patriots another chance

and that kind of happened to your bucks tonight. They give the Falcons the other chance and hey, the new Maddie Ice, Kirk Cochains, he's swag surfing out there. He's clutch and this is going to be a fun year in the NFC South. We'll be watching you.

Gerald, listen to your podcast with Kyle Van Nuoy at Yahoo. Check him out. Game Day morning. Yahoo Sports. Check us out every Tuesday NFL game day morning every Sunday morning best show on TV

I appreciate it yeah thank you so much no no problem walk walker's favorite Gerald McCoy all right I am flying after that and yet this show's not even over after the break I want to throw

to a conversation Jordan Rodriguez and I had with Ron Rivera who's yeah now working at NFL network we picked his brain about some of the most fascinating defenses of the season was a really fun conversation that'll be after the break. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take

you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week we study the tape, Talk to decision makers and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you.

Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.

What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. I'm Marcus Grant.

And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy. Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now. to learn more.

Back on NFL Daily and back in the Chris Wesleyan podcast studio here. Really excited to be joined by my friend Jordan Rodrigue of the athletic and my new friend. I don't know if I can call him a friend, but we've met a few times now. Ron Rivera, maybe a friend of Jordan's here, former coach of the Washington commanders and the Carolina Panthers. And he's just chilling here. at NFL media. Before we turned on the camera, he was so comfortable. He had his famous,

famous cookies out and his bag on the table. And we're like, we're recording this, Ron. We're going to take it away. But I love the shirt for our YouTube audience, too. Thank you. Well, something very important is happening exactly one month from now. Yes. We've got to make sure you take care. Go vote. Yes, yes. But thank you, Greg. Thank you very much. And Jordan's always great to be with you. I'm so happy. This is very surreal for me to be sitting, first of all, on the same side of like a lectern or a desk or something with you, Ron, after covering you for so many years. But then also, I'm, I'm really happy because we're going to talk about defense today, among other things. And Ron just has such great perspective to lend for us on that. Yeah, we thought it'd be fun to talk with Ron about the

defenses that we find the most fascinating so far. And like, so we're not, we're not ranking them. We're not saying these are the best, but just ones that would be interesting to talk about, Ron, because it's, it's a year for defense. Yes. Right now. Like, it's, it's, happening. It's the run game. It's defense. We've been waiting sort of for this push and pull. It started a little bit last year, and it's definitely happening more aggressively right now. It is because I think the game is changing again. Every so many years, you see this kind of trend going one direction to the other. I think

the trend now is heading towards running again. And part of the reason is because I think the defensive players have gotten smaller. Because the defensive players have gotten smaller, you see offenses being more physical, more aggressive up front. People are running the ball more. We talked about this earlier, rushing yards are up compared to the passing yards which are down. So that's something that I think is due to the fact that defensive players are getting smaller, quicker, but the offensive linemen are getting bigger, more physical, and they're athletic. Yeah, in part, that's the domination of the spread. Obviously, that's

forcing defenders to be more hybrid, smaller framed, more multiple play them in the box, play them back deep if you have to, keeping a shell over the back of things. Like we have heard some people yelling about on TV, not you, Ron, never you, but other people yelling about on TV. But, you know, it's, it is interesting because we are in sort of a sea change and one of those things. And some of the defense we're going to talk about today are built for it. And some are interestingly built for the past, but still doing some, some cool stuff. Yes. For the present. Yeah, let's talk about them. So I guess I want to start with the Vikings because

they are, they are the team that is the most gonzo. They are the team that you watch and you think, like, what exactly are they doing? Now, they've been blitzing for a minute now with Brian Flores and their blitz rate still very high second in the league. But to your point, they are going very light. Like, they play with their dime defense, I think 31% of the time, which is the most in the league. So they have three safeties on the field quite a bit. They use them in all these creative ways, Harrison Smith, Josh Mattelis, Cam, Bynum. But they also have three cornerbacks on the field quite a bit. So they essentially have six starters, like how do you see this Vikings team?

Like, how are they doing it? Well, the biggest thing is, too, is up front, they're very stout. They still play very physical, whether it's four down linemen and a lineback or four down linemen and two linebackers. One of the things that Coach Flores does very well is they're very simplistic

in terms of some of the things that they do and they're very good at being very basic. But then the complexity gets you because of the pressures, the way he uses the pressures, the way he mixes up his coverages. He's not always sitting in the same thing and because of the different personnel groupings that he's willing to match up with,

sometimes you get mismatches in the defensive favor as opposed to offense. The offense is always getting the positive mismatches. Yeah, Ron, I wanted to ask you this from your perspective as someone who has called defensive signals and plays and had to counter offenses and communicate with the mic and really make sure that those counters are implemented with your defense. You hear some of the former players in that system talk about how late the call is getting into the green dot and how late it's getting communicated not in a bad way in a way that he's almost giving them a third counter, especially with all this pre-snap motion that

offenses are using to try to take the teeth out of some of the pressure he does run or some of the formation changes they use. So from your perspective, like if you're going to do it that late, you kind of see it the way they built their defensive roster with those veterans, what are key elements of that communication to add that late counter, that third counter right up until the snap. Well, first of all, the biggest thing you just said was about having veterans, having the right kind of guys back there that are your, what I call air traffic controllers. They're the guys that are making those decisions, making those late checks all of a sudden. And so what you have to do is you do have to have very bright, intelligent guys that can

help make those calls and checks and get them across to everybody. But also, you also got to have guys that are committed to the work ethic of what it's going to take. And with Coach Flores, I promise you, their walkthroughs, their meetings, those things are very, very good. I mean, they're constantly probably talking about the what ifs, how can we handle these things, and what are our adjustments. You know, back in the day, they're called AFCs, automatic fronts and coverages. Based on what you get from the offense, you check on defense. I learned that from buddy Ryan, Rex Ryan, and Rob Ryan used some of that when they were coaching in the league as full-time coordinators and head coaches. Those guys were always thinking that, again, we want to put our defense in the best defense to match what the offense potentially does at these formations.

It's interesting, though, because now offenses are giving more questions to the defense. They're asking, they're asking him to declare what they're going to do, essentially earlier in the snap, earlier before the snap than ever. So the fact that he can make a second check, and safety's joke about this, oh, maybe one day we'll finally win because we'll get a third check. Well, Brian Flores is able to give that third check because he can lean on the communication element. Let's talk about that, too, because they are, they're on a, you know, the cliché is they're on a line together. but phone line too. I mean, they're not able to talk to each other

directly in the helmets, but the fact that they can communicate in this way, they're kind of gaming the system a little bit with what offenses are trying to get them to tell them. First of all, they're not showing what they're actually going to do

because they're countering it with that check or that rotation so late in the down or in the snap. And that's so important. Again, you know, it's not just about being able to disguise what you want to do

and give the presentation to, hey, we're going to play this type of coverage because we got we got a safety tilting that direction. Okay, that could be a false key. You know, again, just because I'm tilted doesn't mean necessarily I'm going to stay down. Or I'm aligned up over the top of the number two receiver and the nickels cheating in like he's going to go ahead and run a pressure.

You know what I'm saying? So again, disguise is just as important. And being in tune with one another so that if I see he's stepping down, okay, for this specific call, that doesn't necessarily mean on the quarterback's eyes, oh. they're rotating that direction. No, we could be doing something different because I know he's moving this. He's telling me something else.

Right. The quarterbacks just seem like they're confused. They're holding the ball longer. We were talking at our desk, Jordan, about that. It might take a quarterback, you know, really being confident to spot throw because there are going to be holes here. If you're blitzing a lot and they blitz about 40% of times,

it's actually less than last year, and you're dropping a couple of safeties back, That's a strange way to do it, but that's kind of what they're doing. They're trying to, in theory, have an umbrella over everything. There should be some spots to hit on the field. Are they kind of willing to give up some big plays in order to make some big plays if you're Brian Flores? You need maybe a quarterback like a Gino or an Aaron Rogers or some sort of veteran.

That's a little, it's a Stafford, a little more confident throwing into those areas when you're playing a defense like that. And you don't find many quarters backs like that in a league anymore. No, because, again, what they're trying to do more something else is if they're going to give anything up, they're going to give things underneath up. And, again, a lot of things they're going to do are going to also be based on down and distance, you know, understanding that, hey, second and long, hey, it's okay. Yeah, they complete something quick underneath.

We'll drive down. We'll make the tackle and will be in third down. Or if it's third and long, hey, we're willing to give this up because, again, it's about making the tackle, getting them down, getting out of the situation, forcing the punt. So, again, a lot of the things that they do are all calculated. I promise you, Coach Flores is really. really looked at these things, thought about these opportunities, put them in the game plan. He's got guys that understand it that can communicate that to the guys that are lining up

out there on the defensive side. It's an interesting way to ask, like, to dare a quarterback. We think about daring the quarterback with the pressure, right? But you're daring a quarterback, essentially, if you want to beat us, if I'm Brian Flores and the Vikings event, if you want to beat us, you have to play truly blind football in a way because when you talk about spot throws, what Greg's saying is throwing to a landmark on the field without maybe even seeing where that is

because there's so much pressure coming into your face. And it's going to be underneath. It's not going to be the explosive pass play. So you have to play this like egoless blind football. And quarterbacks don't want to do that. No, they don't. They're second right now in EPA per play, fifth in success rate.

So they're top team in terms of total efficiency and DVOA, if you want to get into the numbers. And I just, you got to appreciate coaching. Because what I just from a more of a layman can understand is when a new coach comes in and the players that were there before are performing better in certain aspects, Harrison Smith, we thought was maybe getting towards the end of his career. I swear he's playing as good as he's ever played.

Josh Mattelis, no one's ever heard of Josh Mattelis before. They got him play in six different positions. He's paying down linemen and he's like a safety. they got him playing linebacker, they got him playing safety, they got him playing cornerback. He's a really key part, Cam Biden him. You have guys at cornerback that are like journeymen, Gilmore and Byron Murphy is a nice signing,

but Shaq Griffin, and they're all playing I think better and they understand what the coach is asking him to do. Exactly. And I think one of the things too is when you've got guys with the same skill set, okay? And now all of a sudden you can sit there and say, well, they can't create the mismatch that they want. We can create

the mismatch. Why? Because we have three guys that have the same skill set, whether they be three dbs or corners or they'd be three safeties. Now of a sudden you have one guy that can come down and play like a linebacker and you say well the other two can't well all of a sudden you start motion and all of a sudden instead of these guys chasing him they rotate the other direction you can go okay so now we know they're in zone but guess what they're playing man

yeah you know what I'm saying usually when a guy runs across what he got what you usually got man and I love that I love that they're countering motion this way because motion like I mentioned before it exists in part there's a lot other things now that smart coaches are doing with it. It exists in part to get the defense to tell you what coverage is they're playing.

It's an information seeking tool. Now, of course, there's formation changes, things like that, but they're not giving any information. And in fact, they're getting more from you when you go in motion because then they are going to give another check. And a great example team that uses motion to ID or to

undress the defense is Miami. With the way they take their receivers and they move them over here and they put somebody over there and they put them in stacks. And what they're looking for is to see how you align against them. If you align over the top, they're thinking, okay, we've got man covered. You align shading on the inside,

two, three yards off on the inside. They know they got zoned. So again, if you can disguise, if you can move yourself properly and put yourself in position, that's one thing. Then if you put yourself in the right position, can you react and get to where you need to be?

Right. Right. Examples if you get motion outside and you get a linebacker goes out and lines up over the top and all of a sudden you sit there and go, wow, we've got man coverage. Well, you've got a mismatch. got Christian McCaffrey against a linebacker, now of a sudden, where's the safety favor?

Now, if the safety's favor over there helping against Christian McCaffrey, now who's that open? Well, over here, you know, we've got Debo open, or he's one-on-one because they're showing single high. That's what the defenses are looking for. How does the defense counter that? Well, I can favor over here, but I can play middle of the formation. So there's things that you can counter to help support what you want to do on defense by, again, proper disguise and understanding where that helps going to be. It's the defense

is dictating. I know Ron Rivera loves that. It's like when he was on the field for the 86 bears, we're going to dictate, not let the offense dictate, and Flores has been so fantastic this year. I think he will see how the rest of the year goes, but I think he's

worthy of getting some head coaching interviews. I think that's going to be an interesting moment for the league, considering the litigation that he had had with the league. And I I really hope that it is in a situation where he doesn't get coaching interviews because that would be a bad look for the league. He didn't last year, which definitely caught my eye.

And we will see. We'll hold on to that for a second. Let's go to some other defenses that we find fast. You throw out a favorite. We could go Broncos. We could go Bears. I mean, the Broncos, I'll throw out the Broncos. I want to talk about the Broncos.

The Broncos are surprising to me. They are the team that's leading the league in Blitzes right now. It's just crazy. almost half the time they're blitzing. And they're just testing your protection. And I was surprised that they seem to outsmart Aaron Rogers, who you would think is among the best play callers in the league, even though he's a quarterback and he gets help, obviously,

from his coaching staff and everything. And their offensive line was a little scrambled where that pressure was coming back. They made him hold the ball. They hit him 14 times. They sacked him five times. And they've been really effective. I think Vance Joseph maybe made the decision,

maybe we're not the most talented group up front totally they're not bad but like we're going to need to scheme our way into being great well i think one of the things again if you go back and think about what happened last year people wanted to see vans joseph fired from denver and again now of a sudden he you know sean sticks with him gives him the next year coming into it and what does that mean well it means that these guys on defense are now in the same system they have a little bit of experience of what do you expect from what what coach Joseph wants, and now of a sudden there's this communication aspect, because when you watch these games and you see these guys, you know, giving the hand signals, you see the looks,

you see the points, you see the movement, now of a sudden it starts being put in the place. Everything he wants to do is all based off of these guys communicating, and that's probably the biggest word that we can use in terms of why their success is you've got smart players who can communicate, you've got a defensive coordinator of trying to put these guys in proper position to make place, but they're also being given tools to like we talked about earlier is we can check we can go from one coverage to another we can show zone and play man we can play man and show zone we can split the defense and play quarters on one side half on the other so we can roll up and take away a specific side of the of the offense so there's a lot of tools that these

coaches especially these veteran guys that you're seeing you know these guys are you know guys that have the experience that have been have done it before and now they've got the players that can match what they want done. This is their moment. Okay. And I love though, you know, when we talk about blitzes and bringing extra pressure and those types of things, it can sound maybe like it's complicating things. But in the case of the Broncos,

they've actually like made things less complicated in the sense that they're playing with this ethos that is very trademark that is rare that people don't actually get a lot of these days because they have a shut down elite corner. And so you can flex a lot of different coverages, like you

said, you can be very malleable and play very free and mathematical on the back end. If you have Pat Certain, who, by the way, has only allowed eight catches for 85 yards through the four games when targeted. And that's against receivers that he's shadowed over 60% of routes. D.K. Metcalf, George Pickens,

Mike Evans, and Garrett Wilson. When you are simplifying things in the sense where you're like, all right, I've got that guy. Now, everything is going to revolve around that guy taking away at least three pieces of math for the offense because those receivers, those caliber receivers are plus three players. So that revolves around taking away that amount of math,

essentially, and then flipping the leverage. Okay, yeah, you can send extra secondary players and linebackers to Blitz because you don't even have to worry about the plus three. You can send plus one, plus two on your side because you've already taken care of plus three. And it's interesting because they've simplified it in that sense

where it's like, we got a dude. So, yeah, we're going to revolve things around the dude. Do you ever have a cornerback like that that changes the way you coach the rest of your defense? You do do that when you have that guy, most certainly. And you have guys that are similar to that, you can do it as well, whether it's at the

corner position, the linebacker position. Exactly. Although you had two of them. Yes, you did. But when you have guys like that, now you coach everybody else differently because you know that, hey, they're not going to need the help inside in coverage. So we can take those, those, those safeties and play them a little wider. We can play a little bit more middle open defense, which you're starting

to see a lot more right now is to try and stop these passing games. And that's also part of the reason why I think there's a little bit more running going on is because teams are playing a little bit more covered two shells. Okay. And because of that, you're getting less guys in the run box and more guys are running the ball. So again, it's about whether you have a player or a positional players that you can say, hey, you know what? We can add one or two and take away. one or two from them as well. So again, having guys that are pretty special, you know, Luke Keeckley, Thomas Davis,

those guys, those guys, when you have those types of players, that's a special situation. And now, as she talked about Certaine with Denver, now you can roll your coverage opposite. Okay, and you're going to say, we're not going to let this particular guy beat us. We're going to put our best guy on him. He's going to know he's either going to have help to his inside

or help over the top. Every now and then he's not going to get a lot of help. and we're going to try and eliminate this over here with the other 10. We're going to try to help Riley Moss out, who's fighting for his life on the other side. A second year player was hurt last year and teams are going after him. And he's holding up, okay, some penalties, some bad plays. But they've been very consistent. They're 10th against the past, fifth against the run, fifth overall in terms of DVOA.

And they're making it work. And it's made them watchable because these Bo Nix games, this is where I feel a little. I got to do a lot of work, man. I feel a little sick because I'm just like, I kind of. miss just, I like different flavors. I love me a Gino Gough shootout on a Monday night, but I kind of like a 10 to 9, just like

oh man, are either of these teams going to score Slop Fest Broncos jet? So I like having different flavors in the NFL. Broncos giving us that. What's up everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from Scouting

reports and player development to team building philosophies coaching trends and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after you. year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper

level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Matt Jones.

I'm Drew Franklin, and this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit. it different? Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh my. We think NFL coverage should be informative

and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL cover zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL.

Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael F. Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Let's talk about your bears. You can still consider them your bears. I guess you've been going up against them for like 30 years. Yeah, but you know what? When you've played the bears, you'll always...

Okay. Okay, so you've... I was just in Chicago. It was great. So you've coached against Matt Iberflus a couple times, went and looked. I found a 12-7 Washington victory. Oh, yeah. Their defense was already played.

and well back then against you guys. My question for them, and you can tell me what you just think, how they structure things, I've had questions of some teams, are they built for this 2024 football? Because to me, they're built very much on both sides of the ball, like, we're going to stop the pass, and the numbers would say they're one of the very best stopping the past, getting after the quarterback, and maybe we're not as focused on stopping the run. Offensively, I think they're also kind of built to throw the ball and not as much to run the ball. And I'm wondering if those

teams could be in a little bit of trouble this year. They haven't really stopped the run that well, but we think of them as like an elite defense. I don't know if they're quite there. They're very good in past situations, not so much against the run. Is that kind of the Iber Flues defense or what is it? To me

what I've always kind of thought is almost a a bend don't break type of defense. Keep the game close. That way during crunch time, something big can happen on the defensive side or special teams where I was about saying that's the one one thing that don't forget about what they've done on special teams in terms of they blocked a punt

return it for a touchdown I believe that was the Tennessee game yeah their punter also against the Rams completely iced that game out Tori Taylor I mean people uh were getting on them for a fourth round pick that's way more valuable than the majority of fourth round pick come on I mean he really did if you think about where they kept pinning yeah I mean that you know, statistically it is very hard to go 80 yards and score touchdowns. It's even harder to go 90 yards and score touchdowns, let alone 98 yards to go and score touchdowns. So having that weapon has really helped their defense again as well because if we can keep them

pinned on their side of the ball, I mean, excuse me, of the 50, you're going to give your defense opportunities to be successful a lot more, plus what it's going to do is create better field position for your offense. Yeah, they're one of the few teams that I think you can. can genuinely consider that special teams unit as an extension of specifically the defense. And especially with, you see actually that that's part of the plan with the way that the bears are pressuring more in the second half versus the first half. And they really dialed things up.

I saw it in person this past weekend. You know, it's interesting that that actually shows you that even though they're not usually playing with a lead, that they're still going to rush the passer or try to dial pressure as much as they can on opportunities that other teams are throwing the ball. And they have to throw the ball because they're backed up. And so that's even if you don't, you know, even if you're the bears and you're in a deficit, if you can back the other team up, they're going to feel like they have to throw the ball against you. Teams that have had success against the bears are always in front of the chains. They're not chasing it. And if you can get them as the bears, get them

to chase it, they're going to be very successful in a terrific pass rush. You know, Montez-Swett, I think, is really one of the really, really good outside edge rushers in this leg. And he'll continue to do those things for your guy yes he is a good good football player and he has really helped that resurgence since he got there last season so a lot of big pluses for them as far as that's concerned and again a lot of things that matt does on on defense for the most part is very solid sound football they're not doing anything overly extraordinary what they're doing is they're doing the basic things very very well and all the little wrinkles they put in there are very good and they've drafted and develop to that strength.

They've taken a lot of players in the defensive backfield. Some hit quick, some took a little longer, but overall now, it's one of the best young groups in the entire NFL. They've got to try to win that way. But yeah, the Bears special teams excelling. We're a long way from Cody Parky and the double doink way back in the day for the Bears. All right, let's, before we let you go, let's sort of, I don't know, do we have a favorite coach? Actually, you're, you know, you're with the commanders last year.

Before we talk, like, maybe our favorite coaches of the year so far, you know, are you still in touch with what's going on in Washington? Well, I pay attention to what's going on throughout the league. And, you know, and I know Coach Quinn very well, Dan's done a tremendous job. I'm a big fan of his, you know, because, again, I had to compete against me. I was thinking almost every year when we were in Carolina. And then, you know, he goes to Dallas and I finally thought I got rid of him when he's in Dallas and not to deal with that again. I've stayed in touch with Dan and big fan of what he's done. done, also a big fan of Cliff Kingsbury, what he's doing for the commanders and he's doing

with Jane Daniels has been tremendous. It really has, you know, Jane's done a tremendous job learning and growing and continue to develop. And Cliff probably one of the biggest things and best things they did, knowing that this is their guy. He went out and tried to find out what he did best at LSU, okay, and took that and kind of morph that and evolved his offense. And now this quarterback is not just necessarily learning a whole new thing as much as he's learning to do what he does best and improve upon it and the young man has worked very, very hard for them. Yeah, and to expand even further,

we see the best coaches and coordinators do this. We see them do that research to not just say, here is my system, and you are going to run the plays in my system, and we have selected you because you're a fit in my system. Instead, you identify plus traits, exceptional traits, and you select, it's not the whole playbook, but you select from a,

bucket of those plays that are plus plus plays or that are comfortable plays or that are plays that you can understand make a difference in that quarterback. And as you know, we did that in Carolina. We did that with Cam Newton, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Schuller, they go down and they spend time with Auburn. They learn as to what they did and how they used Cam Newton, try to find out what best fit Cam. And then they took those things and they mixed them and put them together and created the offense that we used in Carolina for all those years with Cam Newton. Odds are odds that Mike Shula was down in the Auburn Heat

still wearing the same hoodie. Oh, yeah. Probably. Mike's a Mike is a creature of habit. Little Mike Shula inside joke. I love it between these two. It's like, I don't know what you guys are talking about. That's amazing, though.

It's cool to me that you mentioned you were on the phone with Cliff and everything that, like, you know, you were there last year and you're talking about and hearing about the things that he's doing with Jane that's... Ron just left good coaching. That's football. It really is. It's football.

I mean, and that's what it's about. It's about the business of the game. And when you see coaches do some really good things, you know, you want to make sure you get an opportunity to talk with them, acknowledge it. I mean,

things Todd Bowles are doing in Tampa Bay, getting his opportunity again. You know, and somebody that people keep forgetting about is Andy Reed. I mean, sure he's won back-to-back Super Bowl, but let's be honest about it. People get bored with success or resentful.

Your guy, Andy. My wife and daughter, they're both just. they're more casual fans, and they're just like, we're sick of the Chiefs. I think they represent a lot of people. They don't want to hear about Andy Reid. We recognize Andy Reid's an all-time great. Think about how hard.

He's got to do it again. He's got to do again. But, you know, the guy that he has on his side that helps him an awful lot of Steve Spagnola. Yeah. And again, we talk about defense. We talk about a guy that schemes up things, the guy that grew up in the Jim Johnson system. And a lot of people remember who Jim Johnson was, one of the great all-time defense coordinators.

I put him up there with Buddy Ryan. I mean, these guys, you know, they had, their own way of doing things and guys like Steve got the opportunity to learn from it and look at what he's doing. Look at the success. He's an aggressive play caller. He gets after quarterbacks, okay? When he knows when to back off and play coverage,

they mix their coverages, they disguise their coverages very, very well. Reed might be my coach of the year so far. That's an out of the box pick, which it shouldn't be because they're four and O. It's wild that that's out of the box. I know, but it could be that every year. He could, but this is a year where I think they're making more with less and they're finding ways to win.

And that was how they ended last year, frankly, and that's coaching, that's margin. Well, and then, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, that's your pick for coach. That's your pick. Well, I mean, we're four weeks in. Okay. I mean, we know he's got coach Flores taking care of the defense. Go do your thing. But what, look, look, look what he's done with Sam Darnel. Yeah. Yeah. But, but I would also, I would push back on you a little bit, Ron, for not the first time in my life.

But I think that hiring Brian Flores speaks a huge significant. amount of Kevin O'Connell, not because of, you know, the, the prestige and the, and the reputation as a former head coach, but because you're coming in and you're buying into a system that is going to come into practice every day and absolutely freaking torture your own quarterbacks. And that's an egoless decision. It's an egoless decision. And I think he knows. And also, like, not forcing as an offense. Oh, you know this, dude. Offensive coaches, oh, man, this is, I'm sorry, I'm going to rant a little bit. Offensive coaches, they so often get into this habit of hiring or going after defensive coaches

who are going to complement what they do on offense, less so assert a completely holistic identity on defense. And the Vikings are saying we are going to kick you in the teeth on offense with smart scheme and sound quarterback play and a balanced attack and interesting ideas. And we're going to be aggressive and we're going to throw the ball even though we're up 28 to zero. and also on the other side, cut loose Brian Flores, assert. You're not complimenting, quote, unquote, in the way that we talk about complimentary football. It's complimentary in the way that it all works, but you're actually saying,

okay, I want that unit to assert with its own identity. And I think that is a huge, huge trademark of what we've seen from Kevin O'Connell and his identity as a coach so far. And I think it puts him in contention early. Well, that to me is not the only reason, but I think a lot of it has to do with the way Sam Donald has played. And I think part of it, too, is having the opportunity to practice against Coach Flores' defense every day as well. Got better against the Blitz, right?

Absolutely. Then they help each other. And that's the, to me, and I agree with what you're saying, because when you see the aggressive nature of your defense as an offense and you see the way they're taking the ball away right now. Yeah. And you can say the same thing about Detroit, the way they're taking the ball away. That's great. Why? Because they're putting us in position to score.

That's one of the big things that we always used to talk about in Carolina. was winning the takeaway battle and not just that, but scoring or putting the offense in scoring position. Go back to the year Philadelphia went to the Super Bowl, they led the league and takeaways in the first half in their, on the opponent's side of the 50-yard line, which led to more scores, and their offense was the leading scoring team after takeaways.

So these are things that you try to preach to your team, and when you see it happen as an offensive unit, you get fired up. You can't wait for your defense to get back on the, the field and take the ball away for you. And now they're the opposite, the Eagles. I think they've lost the turnover battle in 10 straight games. It's hard to do, just luckwise.

And that's a reason why they're at 2 and 2. Or maybe even lucky to be at 2 and 2. You're right about O'Connell and Flores that it takes a little bit of a lack of ego because I was hearing reports from some of the beat writers there during camp that there were moments where they're like, can you just let Sam Darnold and our rookie like complete a path? There were just some days where they were just totally scrambling the quarterbacks and they couldn't get good work in, but eventually that's going to help them out. That's why I have Jordan here.

She's smarter about all this scheme stuff than I am. It's why I have you here, Ron Rivera. I'd love to have you again because you show me how to wear like perfect glasses that fit perfectly, which has been a goal of mine forever. I mean, you're killing the glasses game, killing the T-shirt game. Appreciate you coming in, Ron. No, thank you for the opportunity, guys. This has been a lot of fun.

All right. I got to argue with you again. I love it. That's even better. It was great to see you guys. You know, just real quick, though, whenever we used to have press conferences, and Jordan would start. If she was at the end of the press conference, we would go over.

We would go longer than I was supposed to be out there because she would come back with something and then I'd have to talk about. Then she says, well, say, yeah, but what about this? And so it was more, you know, that's like our podcast. I'd even follow you into the golf cart sometimes. That is very much like our podcast. That's why we're still going right now. Like, we can't stop honking.

But we got to get Ron on a plane. You're heading back home. You got to get to the airport. Appreciate you. Appreciate everyone. Checking out the show. We got one more show this week. It's going to be my pick show with Cynthia Freeland.

So check that out. That comes out Friday afternoon for Ron Rivera and Jordan Rodriguez of the athletic. And Gerald McCoy, what a star-studded show. We got the big name. football is back. Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game

from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision-makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning. strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the IHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL, visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. This is an IHeart podcast.