NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Buy, Sell Or Hold On Offseason Narratives With Patrick Claybon

Episode Date: April 9, 2018

A room filled with some heroes- Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Chris Wesseling & Patrick Claybon- get into the latest news from around the league, but not before revisiting a terrifying tornado that Patrick experienced early in his broadcasting career (5:00); Andrew Luck shares his progress on recovering from injury (10:30); More potential trouble on the Throne Of Ease? (15:00); Plus, buy, sell or hold on offseason narratives (24:00).Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast. Won a Stitcher Award. I think. Where the hell is that thing? Welcome back to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hanses, and I'm Joe.

Join the room filled with some heroes. Patrick Lebon, back in the house. Chris Wessling back in the house. And Greg Rosethal, what's up, boys? Hey, Dan. Greg, still in the house. Greg's still here? I'm not that excited.

It's important to have... It's good to have the guy that he knows there. Greg's here. Wes, how was your vacation? It was wonderful. Couldn't have been better. I feel like you crisscrossed America looking for a Reds win. Yeah, I'm still looking.

I'm still looking. It's not good. ate very well, which is something I haven't been able to do for the last year. Very good. But this was the great fried chicken sandwich tour. Oh, we just ate great fried chicken. I mean, let's be honest here. And this is a good conversation to have

with Mark. Mark will be back on Wednesday, by the way, so we should better get this conversation in now. I mean, pound for... Because it's related to food. Especially, but meat and a fried meat product. I mean, pound for pound, you want to talk about just a delectable, sinful, delicious sandwich? A fried chicken sandwich.

Let's fly. There's a wide range of how well they can be made prepared for you. You can have some basic fried chicken that you'll never want to eat again, but the best fried chicken sandwiches. It's like, all right, I don't want to eat that again tonight. Your thoughts, Patrick Claibon. Welcome back to the show. It's good to be back.

I love getting that direct message from Greg Rose. Anytime you get a DM from Greg Rosen. Oh, you know, it's special. Oh, man, I got some juice here. And then he's asking me to come on the show. It's even better. I've gotten some lewd DMs from Greg. Maybe it's not, it depends what kind of DMs.

Who hasn't? Wrong one. The problem with a fried chicken sandwich Sometimes people go too much on the bread Yeah And it takes Because it's breading on the chicken too You gotta be careful

Let me let the chicken be the star Can we just do that? Hey absolutely Hey if you want to put a little buffalo sauce on it Yeah I'm not gonna be mad about that either This trip This trip reminds me of

We once my wife and I had a summer Of fried chicken in New York She used to have little projects She would like basically make it her You know Your wife's chef Yeah Emika She was looking for the best

fried chicken in New York, so we just spent the summer crisscrossing the city. Not the whole country, but looking for the best that we could find. Very worthwhile project. Yeah. And? I think we found it. We had fun. I don't know. I'll be in a dark later. I don't remember one, but it was a great summer. One last thing on sandwich

talk. Isn't it true that you... Not quite as bad on the waistline as the summer of milkshakes. Oh, interesting. You, Patrick Claibon, and your wife often have a sandwich Saturday? Oh, yes. Pre-child in the tour of the planet. One of those fun things to get wiped away as soon as you have a child.

We can't necessarily go, well, now that Malcolm's a little bit bigger, we can probably take it to more places, but every Saturday we went to one of these renowned sandwich shops in L.A., based on some asinine lists. Oh, wow. And we created our own list. That's adorable. How much money? You have that list.

Yes, Yusta, I believe it's how you say it, Venice. And Greg, if you could circle back with Emeka and let me know what is the best Friday in your head. Okay. I can think of a few. Good talk. Good talk. Welcome to the Monday edition of the Around the NFL podcast.

It is April the 9th, which is a bit of a quiet time on the league calendar. Let's face it, the draft is about two, two and a half weeks away, and things will catch fire then. But we'll let you know what's going on. Wes, you're coming back at a good time. This is like when I like getting Wes on the show. We can really dig into like just a lot of speculation and just basic thoughts and like, you know, loosely formed opinions on what's going to happen this year, definitely. Yeah, we got in at about two in the morning. I was just telling Greg before you came up here

that this is the part of the offseason where I have to convince myself that my job even matters. So we will go through the news, such as it is, as well as a, yeah, a segment that ties into this time of year. Offseason slash draft narratives. Are you buying?

You're selling. You holding. Got three options there. options. I don't know. Should you hold in a segment like this? No. I mean, poor podcasting.

I mean, you got to, yeah, you got to take a stand. You can't hold if you want, but maybe there will be some judging eyes. Is there a conceivable situation where you could show some onion, just hang some onion on a hold? Is that possible? Maybe. Maybe we'll find out today because I think Greg might have something cooking. I feel like.

The way he's replying. I'm just saying, I don't want to all be selling. I feel like there's going to be a lot of selling. And so maybe it takes. It's more courage to hold sometimes. I feel like if you're going to be holding on a podcast, maybe the medium isn't for you. That's fair.

It's fair. A lot of hot takes. I got a good feeling about this show. All right. Let's get into it and start with a suspension of a widely respected linebacker in the NFC's South Division. North, South. Okay, let's do some news.

We go in the closet. We're all in the closet. The doors fly back there. the door's flying open in the front and me and a person we made a lot of friends tonight here in the kangaroo we're holding the door shut trying to keep everything from flying around back there it's crazy I mean you know the voice if it's like a silkier version of Barack Obama that's Patrick Claybond's and I want to say that that's a compliment when I do my research before the show and do a little digging Claibon working his way through

the ranks back in the day, stumbled on a video of... Why does your research include watching old Claibon clips? What does that have to do with the show? Don't dig into the method behind it, but just know that I found this YouTube clip of Patrick surviving a tornado. Where was this a little background? This was in Gravesville, Alabama. Right.

And so there's severe weather coming through Central Alabama. And me and my sports producer that day, Chris McCulley, we're just sitting there. You know, everybody's loading up umbrellas and getting all this material. You just feel left out. Right. And so it's like, where are we not covering? So like idiots, we charge out into the storm to go cover a spot in Jasper, Alabama, where nothing was happening. It's like a twister two plot.

Yeah. And people are holed up in a hotel. We're there with them. We did a report. And then it's like, all right, let's go back. So we see our friends are at a gas station on the way back. I'll pull in to say what's up. Our friend Mike interviews a little girl.

And then the lights drop. Boom. Black. The door, the sliding door, the automatic door at the front starts buffeting loudly and cracking. And so the gas station attendant puts everybody in the freezer. Mike is doing a live hit. The top of the ceiling is shaking and door flies open, and that's the soundbite that we had there. And me and some random guy, go grab the back of the freezer door and trying to keep it from blowing off. And then 30 seconds go by and everything's quiet. It's wild. I was saying Claibon on our instant messaging service

that shall not be named that I was lucky enough and all these people complain if you grew up in the Northeast oh I can't believe it's still winter I hate it here and it's like one thing you grow up in the Northeast and I wasn't around for Sandy

five years ago or whatever but you really miss out on most of the extreme weather and those type of events Tornado West I'm putting it right at the top of the scary natural disaster power rankings I've never been involved with one, but just imagine that bastard coming right towards you, churning away.

It's similar, so I grew up in the Midwest, which is tornado alley. We had a lot of tornado watches, but it's similar to an earthquake where I realized that a year or two after living in L.A. that you sort of just have to give yourself up and turn yourself over to Mother Nature because you can't fight it. You just sit in your bed and say,

do what you're going to do with me. Treat me like a ragdoll because for a minute of my life, I'm not going to know what's going on here. So you didn't go down to the basement, you didn't do anything like that? We did that. Oh, okay. I thought you were just like, Like, F-U, tornado, I'm just going to lay in bed. Look, Mother Nature is not some Disney movie. It's a killer.

It will eat you, and it's feeding time 24 hours a day. So, Patrick, I'm having tsunami at the top of the rank. Hey, tsunami, that's a good one. They all suck. I mean, that's the weird thing about coming out to L.A. And, like, earthquake happens, and then people are like, oh, that wasn't nothing. And I'm like, the ground moved. Yeah, straight up.

People are in danger, and all these situations, like Wes said, it's coming for. Tsunamis atop the power ranks until you get a huge volcano eruption or a meteor coming from out of space. They all suck. Those are very good. Life is precious. Very powerful. All right. Start with Thomas Davis.

Glad everybody's alive for now anyway. The Carolina Panthers linebacker announced on Twitter on Friday. He violated the league's policy on performance-enhancing drugs. That will cost them the first four games of the 12th. 2018 season, and Davis left a two-minute video on his Twitter and social media profiles explaining it. He was completely caught off guard. He said he took ownership of the situation. But this is Davis, the 2014 Walter Peyton Man of the Year.

So this is a bit stunning, Claibon, for a guy that has really been the face of that franchise. So this is a little bump in the road in his career, obviously. And you mentioned Walter Payton Man of the Year, and that's something that you saw in his response because you kind of measure how people are by the way that they respond to these things. And before we even knew about it, Thomas Davis has a two-minute and I think 30-second statement looking dead on into the camera saying he's not a cheater. He never intended to cheat. But if you go to the NFLPA website, the list of banned substances is scrolling 26 pages long. Oh! There's a lot of places where a guy could get caught up. In terms of Thomas Davis,

I believe him here. I do, and I also raised my eyebrows when he said he hasn't taken anything different in the last six or seven years. And I believe that. So I do wonder about the testing a little bit. Like, why would you fail something now? And this has happened with different athletes that they fail a test with a substance that they've been taking for a long time. Like, it just makes you wonder about the efficacy of the testing in general. Davis is 35 years old.

He just turned 35. Possibly will have a lesser role this season, but to start the season, Shaq Thompson is going to get a lot more work with Thomas Davis out of the lineup. In other news, Andrew Luck. Obviously, the big mystery, the great mystery of the offseason right now

is where will Andrew Luck be in week one? Will it be on the field with a uniform on and shoulder pads and a helmet? And he's barking out. play calls and he's taking that hike and he's throwing the ball down field that situation or we'll be painting a picture with words thank you thank you or it'll be the one where he's on the sideline in the track suit and with the earpiece in and depressing everyone and it will become you know a big part of that telecast just shots at andrew luck we don't want that we want him on the field and he spoke to the media uh during phase one the start of phase one of the cult's off season program he said he is yet to throw, as he calls it, the Duke, which is the NFL football, official football. He's been throwing smaller-type balls. We need the siren sound drop for that one.

The Duke has potential to become one of those words. Yeah. That the NFL writers just pick up on it, and then everybody's saying it one year, and then you go back to next year and nobody's saying it ever. It has that potential. And here's also what Luck had to say about where he is physically right now. I'm not a perfect-feeling athlete right now, by any means. So there's still a focus on me to make sure that I can feel really, really good and then be unbreakable.

I don't want to put myself in a situation where this happens again, and they have to go through the same thing again and again. So as far as a breakdown or percentage, I'm working on throwing technique and a lot, but it's hard for me to give you a number there. Wes, your thoughts after watching and listening to Andrew Luck today? Well, I guess if you're mining for a takeaway, it's that don't expect him to be on the practice fields much this offseason, that he's really aiming for training camp. After so much optimism, perhaps misguided last year, the Colts had been very careful about the message they've been putting out, and luck has been careful about it. Everyone seems confident, and probably the most honest anyone's been, it's been Frank Reich on our podcast.

When he said, we hope that quarterbacks go right in front of us, all the picks in front of us, because we're that confident that Luck's going to be ready to go in week one. But we're all just guessing until you actually see him, as he said, without a governor on in training camp. What is that? The governor is something that – it's like a restrictor plate in NASCAR. It controls what you can and can't do. He's saying without limitations. I think that has a chance like the Duke to take over.

Everyone's – you know – You never been in a golf cart and felt like you get more out of it? I always dream when I'm in a golf cart that I could really let it lose. That's the governor? That's the governor. If you lift the seat and yank on a few wires, you can kind of alter it there, depending on where it's ambitious for you. Yeah, that seems like a lot of work and under the hood stuff, which I don't have skills at. So, yeah, I think that's fair.

What? Greg. Greg? Yeah. I listened to it and I just wondered, like, how difficult this entire process has been for Andrew Luck. I don't know if he's, I think he finds some solace in literature. And I think he's been reading a lot. I don't know if it's been self-help too kind of in the mix or whether he's talked to people about it.

But he had a lot of guilt for having disappointed his team. He thought he was a distraction. I think he's such a smart and obviously motivated guy that this has been kind of a year of struggle. And he's trying to, and he seemed very positive today. Like he was in a good place today, but that had taken kind of a long time to get to that good place. He also looked like he was jacked more than you've ever seen him. So that's a good thing. Maybe part of that, the guilt you're talking about if he does, in fact, have guilt is what he's saying about some of the methods and his recovery last year, maybe not skipping steps in a lazy way, but trying to expediate the process led to him having a setback and he wants to get everything right this time.

Yeah, as a guy who's never been in this situation before, he's used to playing football this time, throwing it this time, and he fell into that. And what I like about this stage, the 2018 version of the luck injury story is, like Wes mentioned, the honesty. Like, we're going to be upfront about our cautious optimism. We hope he's back. If he's not, we're not going to do anything stupid because he's the most valuable person on our team. And we don't really have any actual hope without him.

So we're not going to do anything dumb. And I appreciate that versus, oh, yeah, he's good. He's going to be back on Tuesday. And then Tuesday rolls around and next Tuesday. When he was speaking about skill. some steps in the process. I don't think you had to read too far between the lines to look back at the 2016-2015 season and how the Colts and Andrew Luck,

who wanted to be on the field for his team, kind of handled the initial injury. And I think if they could all do things over again and they tried to get luck to talk about this, that's really the point where I think they would do things really differently. Meanwhile, on the throne of slees, the Boston Herald reported that Rob Grunkowski was, quote, chastised in front of other Patriots players for being a TB12 client last season, early in the prior season. And that incident was a, quote, big part of Grunkowski's irritation with the team that, I suppose,

lingers into the present day. So we'll see what that means. And I think, Greg, you are programmed to say, don't worry about this. deal but well that's been your narrative this off season right that I just say by the way I knew I wasn't going to be able to finish this setup I was just going to say that and then Greg was going to get mad at me and start talking

that's been your narrative all this off season but what was your narrative last off season it was that I was downplaying the Patriots and that I always say that they're terrible that actually know they're you know they're not guaranteed to win a Super Bowl that I was downplaying so you're basically saying I'm the exact opposite this time I don't even know what you're talking about. Every year you say they'll be fine. I'm not worried about them. But last year, as you were saying

as you guys were saying, give them the Lombardi trophy in April, cancel the season, they're guaranteed to win the Super Bowl. And I was saying, well, I don't know. I don't think they're a perfect team. I don't think they've got issues. That's what I'm saying. You said that was ridiculous that I was always downplaying, which is basically the opposite. My

point is, are you worried about this? Usually when I ask you this question about the Patriots, are you worried about blank? You say, no. Are you worried about this situation, the Alex Guerrero, TB12 method, Brady, of course, that's led to some heat with Belichick. Now, Gronk is doing the same method looking trim and fit, and Belichick not happy about that either. These are the two most important players on the team, and there's friction with the organization.

I'm concerned about Gronk's distaste for whatever's go, or ambivalence about the Patriots and playing football in general, because he's the second most important player on the team. The Guerrero specifics aren't that important to me. This was a story Tom Curran reported about a while ago that they got on him about his training methods. I think it was just Belichick making kind of a sarcastic comment about it during training camp last year. And, you know, gronk, it stuck with him.

And it has not been officially announced by Mr. Tom Brady that he's playing this year. I'll say it again. I love Tom Brady. Or gronk. Or gronk. But, you know, most importantly, Tom Brady has not come out and said, I am playing football this year. You know, the last couple of years, Dan, you and I have had a back and forth on Tom Brady

and you wanting to, the gradual decline was setting in. And I was on the opposite side of that. I'm not going to take that stance this year. Uh-oh. There's some smoke to the fire. When he's talking publicly about the end of his career for the first time and that his family might not want him to play anymore, to me, Tom Brady sounds like a guy who's more near, he's accepted he's more near the end of the line.

The age 45, I want to play. We'll see about that. Coming off a Super Bowl lot. Moving on. I mean, how many times does this have to happen before people stop doing bits at the airport security line? Oh, not the place for bits. Packers' wide receiver Trevor Davis arrested this weekend,

charged with making criminal threats after making a joke about a bomb at LAX, the public information officer, Rob Pedragon Pedrugan Told the SBN Davis was taken into custody Released May 3rd Court appearance

He was asked basically And this was the bit Claibon Okay I mean When are we gonna learn people He was asked And this happens

He was on it He was heading toward On a trip I guess to Hawaii He was asked If whether there was any Arasol cans, knives Weapons or explosives

In his luggage Davis turned to his female companion and asked if she remembered to pack the explosives. He was then taken into custody and booked. Can't do it. Can't say bald. Don't do it. Is he?

Our whole lives are like an opportunity to tell a joke versus whether you should hold, hold back and not go for the laugh. Yeah. And, you know, it's a balancing act, but every few years you have to remind yourself that, you know, sometimes the laugh just isn't worth it. I mean, he's just trying to make his girlfriend chuckle. Right. And he got banged.

The risk reward in this one is pretty off. This was like the Chad Ochosenko signing of the Patriots of jokes here. I mean, the possible reward was pretty low. Risk massive. At the most, right, three people are going to hear the joke. Right. And you're one of them. Two of them have control over the next, you know, however many nights of your life.

And finally in the news, the Lions began their off-season program on Monday. So good for them, Greg. Getting to work nice and early this year. After learning a very hard lesson that there are no shortcuts during the summertime in the NFL. You famously weren't happy that they started training camp after all the other teams, even though league rules didn't allow them to start training camp after all the other teams. I think they realized they're going to have to be all in this year. It's going to take another level of commitment considering the backup quarterback they signed.

Who was it again? Oh, it was your boy. Matt has. Oh, yeah. That didn't even make the show. This is what happens when you go on vacation, Wes, that Matt Castle signs and it doesn't even make the show. I don't know if I've ever seen anything like this in the NFL where a guy has demonstrated that he can only throw in a 10 by 10 yard box and people still keep signing him. We should try to get mad on the show.

It's like if a Matt Castle signing, if Matt Castle signs and Wes isn't there to deride it, did it really happen? I feel like Matt Castle would probably be right there with West. It's like, get me out, guys. I'm not even blaming him. But did the lines not watch the last two years of tape on MacCat last three years of tape? He hasn't played a little bit. The Dolphins game was gloriously. He is in the Josh McCown or I'm trying to think of some other examples of these guys.

Josh McCown is way better than the castle. He is, he is. But in theory, they sell it as he's a great veteran to have in the room. It's like another coach. Well, then again, he's just now reaching the phase of. I hear another coach. It's like another coach in the room. He's just now reaching where Matt Schaub was in 2000.

And that guy's still in the league. That's true. Maybe the reason they did start practicing on Monday is Kiss Castle is like, I'll sign on one condition. You guys work hard this. That's the guy we want in the building. They're going to try hard now, baby. Leadership.

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spartan baby all right here we go west it's your favorite time of year so let's dig in to some saucy narratives of the off season are we buying we selling we hold in okay okay okay well i I don't want to, like, undermine your segment. I'm still not clear what a narrative is. By the way, it's our segment, Wes. You're back from vacation, rejoin the group. I'm in. I've got some narratives that I think are narratives,

but I'm still not sure what a narrative is. We're not going to start with you then. So we'll get things off on a steady foot. And let me get it going. I'll start with, uh, there's a report. You ready? Is a report count as a narrative or is it help to... That's what I'm saying.

What is the narrative? Maybe we shouldn't call it narratives. It's stories. I feel like a report is only one. one faction of the narrative. A report would not be a narrative. The second of it could be, is this a narrative? This is what, you know, it's funny?

That's true. What's funny is that, for instance, a report today, an NFL talent evaluator told NJ Advanced Media is Matt Lombardo, the Giants will select USC quarterback, Sam Darnold, if he is available at number two overall. Okay, I was going to do mine and the name of it. That was going to be in the news. Now it's moved from the news to the narrative. That was also going to be my narrative.

Okay, here we go. I had it as the Giants will trade out of the number two pick or select a player who isn't a quarterback. Okay. That was the narrative that I was unloading. That's fair. That is kind of the narrative. And I will sell hard on that narrative for this reason

that the Giants are too smart to mess this up. In my opinion, knowing this organization and knowing everything, there have been bumps on the road recently for the Giants. They really butcher the Eli Benchurch. and how that was handled in general. And maybe some people aren't so hot on this head coach hire. The 2017 football season, I feel like, was a misstep for the organization. It was.

And maybe that's either, you could look at it two ways. Trying to win football games. You could look at it two ways. It's either that was a bump in the road for the organization, a bad year last year, or maybe they have some issues right now upstairs and it's leading to bad decision-making. However, they are number two, and they're very lucky to be there. because they haven't been this bad in many years. And it just happened to fall where they dropped a 3 and 13 bomb

when this was a rich prospect class. They're sitting at number two. Eli and you guys, I know you guys love this stuff. He's 37 and is showing clear signs of decline at this point. And I know they, you know, they love the Notre Dame Guard and I know they love the Penn State running back and all that. But it is just crazy to me to think that they would not build a bridge to the future with one of these hot shot guys.

I don't know who it would be, but I would be stunned if they trade out or don't take a quarterback. So I am absolutely selling on the idea that they don't do it. This was mine, narrative too. And I would just add that especially against the backdrop of what's going on in the NFL this offseason as far as the price that teams are paying to go up and get a quarterback. What the Jets gave up to go up to get in a position to take a quarterback, the Giants are already in that position. And you're telling me they're going to pass on. a guy who can replace Eli Manning who, come on, that guy cannot carry the Giants' offense. They'd be lucky. Even I'm an Eli supporter, as you guys know, but they would be very lucky

if Eli gives them two more years of even average quarterback play. It's just the nature of the game and the way you're selling, Wes. I'm on Dan's side on this, and in fact, more confusion with the narrative. How does this even become a report that some random talent evaluator, not even in the Giants front office, is saying what the Giants will do at number two, as if David Gettelman's going to tell some guy not affiliated with the organization what his plans are at number two. Yeah, that's why it can't be the dominating narrative. It can't be a narrative

because it's completely made up or not taking. Unless, of course, it's a Gettlement smoke screen. Oh, okay. I think he's doing a little bit. Now we're through the looking glass. But I would leaning holding here. I agree. I agree

that it's a preposterous situation considering the price, as Wes mentioned. But if somebody does let's say buffalo is there at 12 and they've got their cachet picks if they do make an offer that's wild to Gettleman and he's not sold on Josh Rosen like a lot of people are like I would say yeah if Rosen's there if Donald's there you take one if you look at history Gettleman's never traded back in the first round that doesn't necessarily mean anything but just worth note but you know

if in Buffalo that's what they want to do and the price is right I can see them trading out but I could who knows they might have traded with the Jets, if the Jets had just picked up the phone, I mean, that was a crazy decision by the Jets not to call the Giants because I am buying this narrative. I'm on the other side. And it's because I just think they've gone too far down the road with Eli Manning in terms of telling him how much they love him. He made it very clear after the season that he did not want a number two overall pick in the building. That story's kind of been forgotten because it was even before Pat Schumer was hired. But he made it. pretty clear in some interviews that he wouldn't really appreciate that. What quarterback would? Not blaming him at all. My point is that they have gone so far to the mat for him with him publicly and they've kind of talked about building this offense and how Pat Schumer is the perfect guy from like I'm I believe them because I don't think I think taking him almost would be a slap in the face to Eli. I mean not you know as much

as people thought starting Gino Smith was but I think the way that they've positioned it that they said Eli is our guy. And so I am believing them that they want, I don't think it's a good idea, but I think that's what they're going to do. They're going to take Chubb or someone like that or they'll trade back. They'll be right back in the same position next year and can take a court. I kind of agree with you. I as a, you know, I haven't necessarily rooted on the Giants over the years on this show.

I'm fine. I'm fine with them sticking with Eli. Go for it. All right. Let's move on. Patrick, do you want to try? Yes. Let it rip.

submit this if it is a narrative the idea of a culture change to fix your team and make it a better team in 2018 I've googled Chicago Bears culture change I've Googled Miami Dolphins culture change I've heard that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

are going to change the culture in their locker room the Raiders plan on doing it I can't for the life of me figure out what the hell it means so the general idea of a culture change I like this he's thinking big that it even means something. All right.

That's a narrative. So what are you, are you, you're selling them? Yes. Super sell on the, on this nebulous idea that you're going to change the culture of your locker room.

I have a hot take. You can change the culture of your locker room if you have the right guy that comes in and can do it. Like Bill Parcells, he could change the culture of an organization overnight, but there aren't a lot of Bill Parcells. Most of the, if you're asking Matt Patricia to change the culture, I don't know. And a lot of the teams you mentioned aren't even changing your coach.

I'll allow it if you're changing your coach, right, who's going to have meetings at a different time. But if you get rid of Vendomac and Sue and Jarvis Landry and so now it's like, we've got a different culture now. Well, that I agree with totally. That's BS. Yeah, as it turns out, banishing J. J. J. J.I.E. to the Super Bowl champions doesn't really change your culture.

I disagree. I feel like it really had a positive effect on J.J.I. That's true. Is Adam Gase going to be changing the culture or is that culture going to be improved? just because Sue's not there, even though there's a lot of talk that Sue wasn't even a bad guy. It was just a situation where he got stuck with that type of stigma. I'll sell that, too, because there's 53 guys, there's 90 in the off season, and then there's 53 in the season.

That's, it's like, it's hard to change an entire culture just with, you know, whatever that even means. What does it mean there? 53 doesn't mean anything. Culture matters, but our ability to change it by making decisions is overrated. It evolves naturally And usually from a bunch of people Playing on the same team together Coming up together

But even then you can add somebody Who changes the I do believe that culture can be changed I just don't think We can do it Whatever we want to Or however we want to It's beyond our control

I might have picked a bad No I thought that was It was good to Because we're all, it's all auto sell And it's just like Ah All right Wes

You want to give us It's provocative Very provocative I'm audacious. Again, confusion with the narrative here, but pick from any of the above. Josh Rosen's intelligence is a problem, his status as a millennial is a problem. Him being too stubborn or cocky is a problem. How about he had two concussions last year?

Shouldn't we be talking more about that than all of this nonsense about having, as Kevin Clark from the ringer put it, a lot of the same traits as Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers mentally and Peyton Manning mentally? And this is what's getting picked apart? The guy, here's what we know about Josh Rosian. Everybody agrees he can play. And he's smart enough to do everything in NFL quarterback has to do with the line of scrimmage and post snap. So he can play and he's smart.

And we're worried about all this other nonsense. I'm selling on any of that meaning anything. I'm with you. Yeah, especially the way that Mora put it. He's a guy that wants to know why. Good. Like, why is that a bad thing? Is that big Sean McVeigh would have any problem with that?

The smart coaches get that. And maybe Mora would say, I don't want to, because Moore has gotten himself in enough trouble. I don't want to, you know, I don't think he never necessarily said the Y comment and then the millennial thing as a hardcore negative thing. But you have to have the right staff to handle a Y guy. And it's like, I mean, if you don't, you have that staff, then you're like Rich Cotite staff or something. And you're already screwed anyway. Yeah. If you don't have that staff, you're playing for like eight and eight.

If you're, if you don't have that staff, you're coming and, you know, working for. Renaville Network. And people were Yeesh! Oh no. People were confused about like, well, is that a negative thing

that Jim Mora is saying it? He was saying it in response to a question about why he would have put Darnold as the pick for the Browns. So, yeah, everything. That was weird because

Darno was more suited to the city he would be playing in. What does that even mean? They're from like 25 minutes apart. Yeah. What is it? He's like,

it's like Sam Darnold's from a coal town that's hard down on his luck. He's not. You know, he's coming up. And then you got Josh Rosen, the liberal elite out there with his anti-Trump statements. And it's like, oh, because honestly, I feel like that's the root of it. He's smart in the wrong direction. Yeah.

The concussion thing is a concern, though. It's a fair thing. It's a fair thing to bring up. Yeah, the health risks are fair. Because concussions, what we know is that if you have one or two or three, you're more likely to have more. We just don't know. we have no ability to predict when those concussions will happen. Greg, your turn.

All right, here's a narrative for you. Yeah. The Rams, they've added too many players. Too many guys. I mean, it's going to be, they're asking too much of Sean McVeigh. Too much doubt. Like a lot of different personalities here, a lot of changes, a lot of, you know, keep Talib and Sue and Peters, a lot of handle and expectations.

There are people, but that's your narrative. That's your narrative. A team needs to sign a bunch of players without personalities. That would be tough to do. Mutes. So you're selling that narrative? I don't know. Are we?

Yeah, I'm saying. I thought you were just throwing them out. I think you could definitely argue they're less likely to repeat their success just because so much went right last year. And health is always in the NFL. They were one of the healthiest teams of the last decade. But I don't think it's because Wade Phillips and Sean McVeigh can't control these men. Too many players. Yeah, what does it mean?

actually. It means that it'll be so much new talent that they might struggle to find for these guys maybe to get comfortable and also to find, put them into the scheme in a way that will be as successful as the previous players. People are uncomfortable, I think, with the idea in football that like, okay, you add a bunch of star players and then suddenly you're good because that doesn't necessarily work because it's such a team game. But that's like so many of the recent champions have added a ton of players like the seat, including the Philadelphia Eagles. I mean, which team made more transactions over the last two seasons than the Eagles.

Like, adding, like, I think that's kind of an old, that's the way NFL used to work when you were able to have continuity, but adding a lot of players, like that alone is not going to make me discount you at all. That's basically how the NFL works now. I think the narrative is an offshoot of distraction truthering. Like, you know, these, this guys, they're going to have a conversation in the locker room and then they're not going to like each other and they're not going to play well because they're distracted, right?

I mean, that's the idea. Yeah. Somebody's going to say something. Do you know your team is in a really good place if the number one narrative of doubt is, are there too many good players now on the roster? And like expectations. How are they going to handle expectations?

Which is like they were one of the worst teams in the league two years ago. So if that's like your biggest issue. It all comes back to culture. Do you have the culture in place that can handle expectations? Culture in this instance is a gym that you find in a, Another narrative is kind of that Sean McVeigh can do anything, that they just trust, you know, send your people to Sean McVeigh. It helps when your offensive coach is smarter than the rest of the offensive coaches.

Less than a year older than Andaman Suu, by the way, Sean McVeigh. Wow. Over under, Rams wins, Patrick Claibon, 12.5. It's been set. 12. Very high. You said 11.5 last show. It moved up.

Line moves. I'm taking the under. I just want to see if anybody was super bullish on that. this Rams team. Just checking. It's a tough conference. I don't have that much confidence in Jared Koff. I'm sorry.

That's fair. That's fair. All right. One more time through, I will talk the Buffalo Bills. And the narrative around the bills is that they will use their two first round picks, I believe at 12 and 22 or 21, one of those, to get one of the, quote, big four. Who are the big four? We know it by now.

Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, or Baker Mayfield. Why doesn't Lamar Jackson get to be part of a big five? He has not been brought up in that narrative sense. Oh, because. Like, he's in the, he's been grouped with the Lamar Jackson and then. So the big four is a subset narrative of the prime narrative. Yes. Okay.

Am I, I, I'm right, right? These are the four guys that are grouped together. Yeah, no, I think that's the narrative. Jackson and Mason. Rudolph or in that like next tier, it seems. And I think the over under on quarterbacks taking in the first round is probably five and a half or even six, you know, because I think at this point, people expect Jackson to go in the first round and maybe Mason Rudolph.

Anyway, so yeah, the bills will use their two first round picks to get one of the big four or make a play to get one of the big four. I am buying on this just because they're in too deep now because the Jets made their move. So they're going to get one of the big four. the Patriots now, of all teams, it's like an independence day when the ship goes over the White House and it's just waiting there

and you're waiting for them to strike. That's the Patriots. So that adds more like stress and anxiety, I'm sure, on one bill's drive or wherever their facility is. I think that might be right, actually. I think it is. One Bill's Drive in Western New York. So what is Billy Bean going to do?

Brandon Bean. He's not going to stay and let the pick come to him, I don't think. And by the way, I believe he tries, he trade or the bills traded out of their pick that became Patrick Mahomes last year. So you got that history and I just don't think that they are going to come to this point to let the draft come to them

because they would have serious egg on their face, especially if you don't believe AJ McCarran is a 16-game starter. So I believe they make a big move and it might cost more than those two first runners to get it done at this point. And I think this is very good news for the Browns at four, the Broncos at five potentially,

The Colts at six, definitely. Maybe even the Bucks and Bears at seven or eight. I think the bills are making another move to get up. I don't think anything they've done makes sense if they don't end up falling through on that. Nobody, unless they love Lamar Jackson and they think he's going to get to them. But would they wait? I think even if it was a Lamar Jackson, they would maybe want to move up to make sure they don't get left out in the cold. It's kind of, I would think it would be a very unsettling time to be in the Bill's front office when you see what's happening in your

division during this draft especially after you're amassing all of this material in slow motion and then the jets bang you and go ahead and make their move and then you're you're sitting there left with all this ammunition they already got banged by the jets and you don't even know if you can if you can use it here so i'm i'm going to buy it as well i don't very rare that the jets bang anyone so i'll take they've got them in checkmate right now yeah i'll i'll buy it as well because i think one of those quarterbacks they don't necessarily have to get into the top four or even five that drafts are surprising and maybe one of them that they happen to like slips past

and they only have to move up to eight and it's not going to cost them a crazy amount. They're going to do it. They're not going to sit around. They made the playoffs last year and they are not currently relevant. So what do you do in the NFL to become relevant? Because this is a team without an identity. What do you think of when you think of the bills? Their defense that Sean McDermott in theory has a sound.

They're a team in theory. Right. As a sound defense. Sneak theory does. And I'm... No, I'm just saying like, yeah, they were a solid defense last year. It's like, oh, they tackled well, they, you know, they didn't... And if a team is desperate for relevance and really wants to finally get back on the map,

and the bills really, even though they made the playoffs, Baker Mayfield feels like a guy that they would maybe just say, F it, let's fly and see if this works out. They're the Vladivostok of the NFL. They're literally off the map. I was thinking what... That's a West ref I don't get. I missed it.

It's an outpost in... Patrick probably knows. It's an outpost in far eastern Russia, closer to Japan, but yeah, it's way out there. There are many teams that you could qualify as rebuilding in the NFL right now. I think the bills would qualify and the Cardinals would qualify. I'm not sure if any others. I guess the Bears are still.

Jets are not going to rebuild. Bears have been for a while. Browns aren't perpetually rebuilding. I guess I was thinking NFC off the top of my head. Claybon. Ryan Tannahill, still quarterback of the future in Miami. That's a good one. I'm going to hold.

You thought it wasn't going to happen? Wow. That's our second hold, bro. You thought it wasn't going to happen? It's happening. And here's why. Because they are holding. They aren't really sure.

They don't really, they're not buying, but they aren't filled with the confidence and maybe not with the agreement between coaches and front office and they don't know how this draft and everything is going to go. So maybe this isn't a good position to be in holding from their end,

but I don't think they know whether they can do better. So they're just kind of seeing what's going to happen. If it depends on the draft, though, if the draft shakes out differently and quarterbacks are there at 11, does that... Yeah, then...

If that impacts decision, then are they really that invested in him in the first play? I very rarely... It's a great point, Patrick. I rarely get a chance, or we don't get a chance. We go off reports on things, but we actually had the head coach in the room with us at the owner's meetings.

And the way he explained it, you know, he said, I've only had Ryan for 13 of my 33 games. And the way I read it, and he was an interesting guy to try to read, but I think he really liked what he had in Tannahill when he was healthy. And I think Gase, I don't know what it means for, like, future, or is he the long-term answer? but I don't think Gase is going to bail on Tannahill in 2018, even if there's somebody in the draft that they like.

I think they have so many needs on both sides of the ball that they keep rolling with Tanna Hill. So I am buying your narrative. Well, before this became a full-fledged narrative, and it was only a report way back when... The good old days. Yeah, you know, a couple of months ago. Yeah.

The perception was that one of those guys, Baker Mayfield or Josh Allen, would be available for the Dolphins, and it was easier to buy then. I think the quarterback market has moved on the Dolphins. And for better or worse, they're stuck with TANAP. Wes. Strange things are...

Did you, West, Patrick, did you offer your buy-hold sale there? Oh, I'm buying it. You're buying, okay. Strange things are afoot in Foxborough. Meaning that starting with the Seth Wickersham long form on Belichick and the problems with him and Brady and Kraft, I don't think that's been ironed out and Dan I'm going on record the dynasty's over who yes I've never said this but I I think there there is something really there there are

problems with with Brady gronk and bellichick and and brady and gronk are the best in the NFL at what they do right now all that can be ironed out but it seems to me that there are real problems those are the three most important figures in the whole organization gronk's not one of the three most important figures i mean robert craft is but that that's a small okay i'm just saying it's grong it's grong all right three of the top four most important figures you okay now greg yeah they they're both the two players are crossed with the coach and the coach i don't think a coach is going anywhere oh i'm with you i'm buying in and you know i'd buy anyway but actually believe it and as much as i enjoy it i'm actually going to hold uh this conversation

in this narrative because I think what we've seen starting with the Wickersham article is like a narrative regression to the mean with regards to the Patriots like everything has been so glowing you know these guys were doing their job they're the best franchise ever

they do it the Patriot Way yeah that was last off season when they were gonna go 19 and no but now like there's just casual stories like we don't even know what Belichick said to Gron he could have said hey I hope those avocado shakes are good and then everybody had a good laugh.

Doesn't sound like it, though. And now he wants to be a wrestling. It does kind of sound like it that basically Gronk had a really poor start of training camp. He knew it. And Belichick, which you can really easily imagine, made some sarcastic comment about, you know, looks like the new training regimen, you know, not working out too great, Gronk. And, you know, I need a jerk about it, but that that big a deal. Nick's my hold.

I'm a full-fledged sell on this. The Patriots have been, they're a team that's been coached well and they have good players. And I don't think that's changed. So, yeah, I'm saying... Good on you getting off the hold. That's fair. I'm going to sell and just remind something of West said at the beginning of the show. This is the time of year when you wonder if any of these stories really matter at all.

Oh, it goes back, though, to a time when football was being played. It goes back to the coach screwing the organization for a Super Bowl strategy. But I guess I would say since all those stories came up, they had one of the great comebacks against one of the great defense. in NFL history, they were tied in the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl. And that's why I'm selling, just that I think the dynasty might be over in the sense that they're unlikely to win another title, just because the odds are against them. But I think they can be a good football team, just like they were after the whole Brady thing. You neglected to mention that the coach cost them a Super Bowl with this ridiculous decision to

bench Malcolm Butler. I wouldn't say that that necessarily cost them. No, I think it did. But what does that have to do with anything? That has nothing to do with, that has nothing to do with Tom. Brady being unhappy. Do you feel the game would have played out differently? Of course.

Of course it would. I'm just saying that then a million different things are different. How do we know that Tom Brady wasn't unhappy with Belchick about the buck? But I don't think that affected his play during one of the great performances in NFL history. It didn't, but it could affect how many years he wants to play. Considering this team and the ownership and the coaching staff and all of the personalities, it was never a personality problem for the Patriots before. But now we see these guys clashing.

I don't think it ultimately really matters any personality clash. Like, can you execute well on the field? They've done it well. So, like, Brady and Belichick might not really like each other that much, and that's okay. It'd be almost weird if they did by this point. It's after all this. Greg, finishes off. How about that the Broncos will not take a quarterback with their selection?

They've spent so much guaranteed money on Case Keenum and John. John Elway would not want to put himself in the position of having taken two first round picks in three years, because if you were wrong a second time, then you got real problems. And I'm selling on that. That they... I think they are in the market for a quarterback. I don't know if they'll take it or not, because it has to depend on who is available and certain things. I don't necessarily think they're trading up,

but I think they have to be in the market for a quarterback. And I don't think John Elway would be afraid if the right, if he's into one of these players and it gets to him, I don't think he'd be afraid to take one. Why? Because of Case Keenham, give me a break. I agree with you that I don't think Elway would rule out a quarterback. Maybe he loves somebody.

But I did, I'm a little surprised just seeing this now that Keenum, Case Keenum just turned 30. And when I bring that up, it's because if he really, if Elway really does. like Keenham a lot he might see him as the long-term answer and he's not a two-year band-aid but at the same time do I necessarily believe that probably not because Keenham had one real good year in his whole career I'm gonna hold on this one I think this one yeah this one's a little I'm vexed by this one because I think if Keenom was 36 or 35 I'd be like oh well you know he's definitely got a even if he

didn't even if he loved Keenom he'd have to look down the road I think Keenum is young enough where he if he likes Keenham he could say I'm going to build around this guy I've lost all confidence in John L.A.'s ability to manage his quarterbacks. Look at their decisions over the last couple of years. They draft Paxton Lynch in the first round. He's been an unqualified bust. Case Keenham, they've got a guy in the building who's been every bit as good as him. Well, up until last year, Trevor Simeon, they could have had Keenum for a lot cheaper the year before.

They didn't want him. Now they won him for $40 million more than they were unwilling to get him for the year before. and they brought Brock Osweiler back last year. What is going on with John Elway? And I just can't, I can't trust his ability to read quarterbacks anymore. This after almost giving Brock Osweiler the money before he got money from Houston in the first place. Well, the crazy thing, too, is like Elway was, you know, praised relentlessly until the last 18 months or so. The one thing you wouldn't think he would actually struggle with was a quarterback and knowing the right guy to pick.

But that's where we are now, where there's doubt whether Elway knows. how to pick the position. He feels desperate, and now he's, instead of getting out in front of things, he's reacting to things, and that's what's driving his decisions. So are you buying or selling or? Hold got a lot of pop on this show. Hold got more pop than, more than we expected. I continue to voice the opinion that if you are going to hold on a podcast, you should probably

get into a different line of work. Whoa. Like you're on, it's a vocal medium to give your opinion. I think Claibon, Dan, and myself, also. all have one hold each. But Gabon got off his hold. You're hosting the show. Once a show, it's just the solo show.

My princess alike hour. I'm going to sell. I'll buy. I'll buy. Wes, respect me. Yeah, I think it's pick dependent again. I think it depends on who gets there. If he's not in love of Josh Allen and Josh Allen is there, I think Baker would be

the pick. But again, it also depends on what Buffalo is willing to do. Are they willing to throw in a first next year? Something more from this draft. including the two firsts they have to move up, but I'm also selling. As Greg said on up to the minute the other day about Paxton Lynch in the future, they don't wish ill on Paxton Lynch, but let's be honest.

That was a Greg quote. Well, yeah, they said we have, you know, we still believe in him. And I was, yeah, it was a smokescreen signal. I was like, well, I don't think they wish ill on him. I'm taking the position here that the guiding principle is John Elway's delusioned that he has a championship caliber ball club, and he can probably go to another position because Keenham can win them a championship.

All right. There you go. Good talk. Fiery. Good, uh, buy sell hold. That's fun. Yeah. All right.

Patrick, I got to look into another career, as do you guys. It's time to move up. You got off your hold. Patrick, you are the man on up to the minute live on NFL network. which airs, I believe, at 2 p.m. Pacific time, which is 5 p.m. Eastern. All over that. Yeah, nailed it. And he gives you all that up-to-date information from the newsroom.

So if you want to be in the know during narrative season and more importantly, draft season, check out Patrick. And also, if you want those hot takes, we want to do some hot takes. We don't want to force it, though. But just know that the hot take on Budsman always is on the lookout. So follow Patrick at Patrick. Claibon for fiery takedowns of bad tweets. Love it. All right.

We'll be back on Wednesday. I think we might go five across with Mark Back and Connie Fox. So a lot of catching up to do. So looking forward to that. Until then, this is Dan Hansa signing off for Claibon. Braesville's finest. The mailman, the old boss, and Lindsay Fulton behind the glass. Yes.

That was great! Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it.

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