NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Chiefs-Bucs MNF Recap, Saints Fire Dennis Allen

Episode Date: November 5, 2024

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Nick Shook to react to the Buccaneers and Chiefs facing off on Monday Night Football. Gregg and Nick talk about the inevitability of the Chiefs, followed by a discussion on what DeAndre Hopkins brings to the Chiefs (06:28), Todd Bowles' questionable decision making through out the game (13:03), and Patrick Mahomes' injury scare and play (21:07). After the break, Gregg and Nick get you caught up on news from around the NFL including the Raiders firing their OC Luke Getsy (24:31) and injury updates for Dak Prescott, CeeDee Lamb, Christian McCaffrey, and A.J. Brown (27:55). Finally, the show is wrapped up with Ryan and Adam from the Saints Block Party Podcast to react to the Saints firing HC Dennis Allen (44:34).  Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. This is third down and one. At the two-yard line of touchdown, walks it off, hand off Kareem Hunt, right side. Pary, he is. Give it time. Touchdown! Kansas City, it's a walk-off touchdown by Kareem Hunt

and the Kansas City Chiefs. Stay undefeated at 8-0, the only unbeated team in the national. Football League, 14 straight wins for the Chiefs Kingdom. That was Mitch Holtus of W.D.A.F. The Chiefs are inevitable. 30 to 24 in overtime. Greem Hunt, he's inevitable.

Patrick Mahomes, he's indestructible. You can't get injured. And the Chiefs in overtime, you lose that toss, you're going to lose. Chief State Undefeated. I'm Greg Rosenthal. This is NFL Daily and Nick shook fresh off writing up the what we learned on NFL.com. What did you learn, Nick? I learned what I already knew about the Chief's offense, which is a slow, methodical, grinded out offense. It's going to paper cut you to death. But what I really learned is that occasionally they can impose their will on you up front and just run it down your throats for, touchdowns in the biggest moments. We saw that tonight as soon as they won the toss in overtime. You had a feeling.

It was going to look a lot like that touchdown drive in the fourth quarter, and that's exactly what it ended up looking like. Yes, in the overtime drive of the Super Bowl and the overtime drive that haunts our producer Eric's nightmares against the bills and all the overtime drives, as long as they're on offense. Chiefs fans don't like to be reminded of that 2018 AFC championship overtime I'm sorry. I thought the ball control was really interesting tonight.

And yes, this Chief's team isn't as flashy, and we're going to get to some new things. Like DeAndre Hopkins was such a big deal. But they had the ball for 83 plays on Monday night. The Bucks 52. The Chiefs had 28 first downs in this game. They dominated time of possession 40 to 25. We've seen that a lot.

But what I think is different and interesting about this team is a lot of times these comebacks, Nick, have some. started by running the ball. They were down 1710 in the fourth quarter of this game. They've actually come back at some point in the game in seven of their eight wins. And a lot of times it's the second quarter, it's the third quarter, and they actually come back by running the ball. They didn't run the ball that well in the first half of this game, but they had that drive when they were down a touchdown, and they just got it going. And that interior line is just so good. And on a night where the bucks pass rushers, I thought, did really well. And I think Todd Bowles had a pretty

good game plan defensively. It still didn't matter that the chiefs get it done. Yeah, it was interesting that Bowles approach shifted. And I understand why, because with an offense like this, you can't blitz them to death and force them into mistakes because they're not trying to throw the football down the field. You kind of have to sit back and trust your base rushes, play coverage, and really worry about stopping the run, especially in the second half. So that was a bit of a surprise. But what was more surprising is the fact that the Chiefs were able to still make it work with that happening. And you're right, the pass rushers for the Buccaneers did a good

job, especially in the first half. And then you get to the second half, you know, the Chiefs only put 10 points on the board, and they look like they have for most of the season. They're unimpressive. It's the reason that everybody gets on me about putting Patrick Baham's so high. Oh, he's got more picks than touchdowns, is what they said a couple weeks ago. It doesn't matter

because he plays within this offense at an expert level. And the Buccaneers just got a first-hand experience with why he's ranked that high. because he just does it so well. He's almost impossible to stop. Add in Kareem Hunt, who goes over 100 yards, which, by the way, it's great to see Kareem Hunt

thriving relatively with the Chiefs again in a different fashion than he used to when he was there before. But you add that in, and suddenly they're that much harder to defend, and it just puts that much more stress on the Todd Bulls defense, and that's how you end up with a drive like they had in the fourth quarter that goes 15 plays, 78 yards, takes eight and a half minutes off the clock. I mean, it was a death march of sorts. It's like they just play by play.

I'm just watching them going, oh, they're just getting what they want. None of it's big chunks. It's Mahomes on a bad ankle, throwing to Travis Kelsey on third down to convert, which by the way, 12 for 18 on third down. This is how you win football games when you're not super explosive. This is a champion of team. It's not how anyone else wins football games. 12 out of 18 on third downs is.

But what's the difference? The difference is Patrick Mahomes is the guy is operating this offense, which is why he should be regarded so highly even if the numbers aren't there. Well, I'm glad you mentioned that. He did throw three touchdown passes tonight. So now he's finally over the touchdown interception threshold. He's now got 11 touchdown, nine interceptions. That's an overrated stat to evaluate quarterbacks.

It's okay to have there, but it's not the one thing you need to look at. Look, he went 11 for 13 himself on third downs with 10 first downs, three touchdowns. You know, the only third downs that they didn't get, and it's interesting, that overtime drive just felt so inevitable. these short passes and then the run on third and short to finish it. That was a five-minute, 52-second, 10-play drive. That was actually a drive that was the fourth longest drive of the night by the Chiefs. They had three other drives that were longer. An eight-minute, 15-play touchdown drive that gave them the lead in the fourth quarter,

a six-and-a-half-minute 12-play touchdown drive that tied the game. and then a couple 10 plus play drives in the first half, one of which went for 70 yards and a touchdown and took over six minutes. So this is who they are. And Troy Aikman said it on the podcast, just like they're an offense that they get into third and four, they get into third and six,

and if they need six, they get seven. And literally, as he was saying it, they hit a first down just too easy. And Kelsey's funny. I mean, he had 14 catches tying the career high for only 100 yards. He's averaging like seven and a half, eight, eight yards per catch this season. And normally you see that kind of stat

in an old tight end and you say he's washed, but that's just what they need and what they're going to need in this offense because they don't have enough explosive plays, but they do now have DeAndre Hopkins. And just tell me kind of what you saw out of DeAndre Hopkins. He goes eight for 86 and two touchdowns.

And this offense just feels different with him in it. Yeah, it does. What I saw wasn't much different from what I've seen from him before. It's the way they used him that was different. They were moving him around. They were using him within the comp, like the restrictions of sorts or just the bounds of their offense. It wasn't Hopkins going deep, say, for that 35-yard catch would set up that touchdown.

That was a masterful catch. I mean, that's DeAndre Hopkins, as we've always known him to be, catching it in traffic among two guys to set up a score. But otherwise, it's short passes, and he's there. He's making the catch. He wins a slant on the goal line. It's a five-yard touchdown catch that the defender had no chance of stopping. Because imagine, I try to put myself in that defender's shoes in that situation. You're one-on-one on the goal line with DeAndre Hopkins.

you know that for the majority of his career, he's running that fade to the back corner of the end zone. But against these chiefs, it's a different story. So, you know, Aikman's like, you've got to drive down and prevent that slant. Well, yeah, what am I going to cheat inside? And I'm going to give up the fade that I've seen him catch a million times in his career. No, I'm going to try to react.

And I'm a step slow because it's DeAndre Hopkins. So in his first game with them, it was quiet, two for 29. They still win the game, obviously. But this was like a bit of a coming out party within the bounds of this offense, in that he can still find a way to make an impact because he's still such a good receiver and they actually know how to use him and it gives Patrick Mahomes an option

outside of the tight end group because since they've suffered those losses at receiver they just haven't gotten much production out of receiver. It's just been all tight end short passes and now he has another guy to go to that he can lean on consistently that'll really, not elevate this offense in terms of explosiveness, but elevate them in terms of options.

Now he has other places to look. He was perfect for tonight. He's his own beater. And that's what they need. And on one hand, it's like, wow, we're adding another slow, big receiver to the chief's offense. But he's way better than any of the other options, like a juju-Smithsuster, whenever he gets healthy. And, you know, they had great chemistry in terms of knowing what the other was going to do on that play that you mentioned. And that play where Mahom steps into a completely crowded pocket and throws it despite getting hit into a window that just you could tell the inner,

at half time, Todd Bowles was so frustrated. That play even happened. How many times does it happen in the Mahomes era where the coach is just like, I can't believe that happened. All we got to do is knock down that ball, but it's Mahomes. And for a second, I was like, yes, this is the Mahomes we need to see more of, like the making actual magic Mahomes, like exciting Mahomes. And he tried to uncork a deep pass later in the game. I forget, was that one to Watson. And I was like, oh, the old Mahomes is back, but it was overthrown by four or five yards. But. But, Hopkins gives a guy they can trust at a moment where they can't trust Xavier Worthy. If you watch that Raiders tape last week, he's just making mental error after mental error every week.

And then he starts this game by basically giving up seven points, by not knowing where he is on the field with a wide open touchdown steps out of bounds. Then he gets the ball one other time. And instead of continuing forward on what might have been a doomed trick play, he still stopped his feet and tried to change directions instead of using the speed. And he might have been able to outrun the defender. He's just not making good decisions. Those end up being the only two targets he has in the game. So Hopkins comes in and he gives them what they need. They've been a bad red zone team all year, Nick.

Their 25th in red zone efficiency coming in tonight. Tonight, four for four, Hopkins has two of them. Let's actually listen to Hopkins' second touchdown. Mahomes calls an audible and backs up behind Crete Humphrey. Here comes a blitz. Quick passes. Cut this side. Touchdown.

Kansas City. Hay Hopkins on the quick left side slant the second time. D. Hop has tasted the sweet nectar of the Chiefs Kingdom end zone and the Chiefs League 2317. The sweet nectar of the end zone. We're finally here. We're back. You know, and the defender's name is Josh Hayes in there.

You can see him. Little stutter off the line, breaks inside, makes the catch. He fits in this offense so well because they are so methodical. What I liken them to is a boa constriction. just squeezes its adversary to death. That's what they do. And I think that he works perfectly, like you said, zone beater, finding the soft spots and coverage.

That's what the tight ends have been doing. Now you have another guy with a ton of experience and trusty hands to be able to get the job done working with arguably the best quarterback on the planet. I just can't see a way in which you stop them. If you know that the deep ball is not there and you're going to try to play defense short, it's still going to be a challenge.

What a trade. And watching DeAndre Hopkins in a good interview after the game with Laura Rutledge of ESPN. I mean, he was so emotional. Like, we think, oh, this is another just win for the Chiefs. But he's been in Siberia for a while now. I mean, those Texans teams he was on early, they were good teams.

He was in many meaningful games. He made the playoffs a number of times. It was only on two teams that actually won a playoff game. But Arizona, that was a pretty dark run. He gets one playoff game there. the Titans, you know, as irrelevant as it gets. And he was, you know, almost tearing up saying words can't describe, you know, what this means to me. I manifested it, you know, with my mom.

We talked about this all the time. And I'm just going to stay present in this moment. And then right after that, Travis Kelsey's on with Scott Van Pelt. And he just says, like, what a difference having a guy like Hopkins adds to that locker room, especially some of the older guys like Kelsey or even in Mahomes, like that he has so much confidence. And then seeing, it's like those championship teams that add a little extra player to the mix. I had a not really well thought out tweet, Nick, that the chiefs are doing the Patriots dynasty in reverse. And they've now reached the 2003 Patriots team.

And DeAndre Hopkins in my mind in this situation is Corey Dillon. And they're just this team that's kind of like slugging you out and it's a really good defense. But, you know, the offense, it's getting better, but it's opportunistic. I don't know if this even makes sense. But they're no longer like the 2007 or 2014 pageants. They're now in 2003, but however you're going to win. I really think Hopkins has some intangible qualities here that really adds a lot to this season. Should we talk about Todd Bowles?

Were you annoyed by Todd Bowles not going for two? They scored the game tying touchdown. And yes, Bucks, we're going to fans, the ones that are out there, like, we're going to give you some flowers. They're showing up every week just about this season, given great effort. They could have won this game. They get the touchdown with 30 seconds left after a great job by Baker. Did you think he should have gone for two? Did you want him to go for two?

Yeah, definitely. And this is the second time that we've spent a Monday night talking about a Todd Bulls decision at the end of the game that hurt their team in one way or another. Last time it was because Chris Gobbin got hurt at the end of the game they weren't going to win. This time, it's conservative approach just to get to overtime against a quarterback and a team that you know,

and you just witnessed, by the way, is going to methodically drive down the field and squeeze the life out of you if they win the coin toss. So you essentially leave it up to a coin toss. Not a good call. You have momentum in your favor. You're in Arrowhead. You're on prime time. It's wet. Go for the win, Todd. And I think that I hate to say this because I think that the Buccaneers obviously have a good chance to battle for this division title with the Falcons. But as it stands right now, when I think about the Buccaneer season in full with half of the season to go. I think about that moment against the Ravens where they lost their top two receivers. And I think about tonight as the two big

flash points in this season where you're going to look back and say, that defined our year. It was the decisions made by the coach in those moments that maybe we'll define our year. And this one, you know, you have to give him a pat on the back because I thought Liam Cohen did a fantastic job as an offensive coordinator of adjusting this offense, knowing he doesn't have the verticality with those receivers anymore. Knowing KDoughton is your best past catching option. And you have this three-headed attack that combines for less than 100 yards. They each go for like 20-ish apiece. None of them have a really good average. One of them, Sterling Shepard, two for 21. Like, they're getting creative to stay alive in the run game, but they

adjusted their offense well enough to still find success on a wet night, on the road against the Chief's defense that has been known to carry them to Super Bowl victories in the past. They made it a competitive game because of Liam Cohen and his, you know, understanding of Baker Mayfield's strengths and how they can still move the football. So you feel good about that. But at the end of the day, you still lose a game that you could have won against the defending champs, against the team that's undefeated. And now you're four and five and you're just like, man, can we get out of our own way? Right. And how about the Thursday night game against the Falcons?

You know, it wasn't necessarily coaching decisions other than just Kirk Cousins eating up their blitz all night. But these are three massive games in prime time where you really have a chance and the margins are so slim. And Todd Bowles is not winning on those marks. margins, and the way he answers the questions after the game annoys me almost more than the decision itself. Let's listen. We wanted to get at the overtime with the wet conditions on the field. We felt like we had to go in overtime instead of to go for two. So we had our shots, you know, we lost the game. Did they advise you not to go for two? What was? No, we went for one. We took our shots. We had our chances all game. We just lost the game. It didn't come down

today. It kind of did. It kind of did. It never comes down to one play, but you had the chance to win the game right there. Okay, so that whole sequence was both impressive and frustrating. First of all, half that drive was just Baker Mayfield throwing out routes to Sterling Shepard. Shepard made a couple great catches. Mayfield's timing was really good all night. I've been critical at times of Baker this year. I thought Liam Cohen, as you said, called a really good game. I thought he outcoached Spagnolo. Yeah. It's crazy because the Bucks got way more quarterback hit. They sacked Mahomes four times without blitzing. And the Chiefs blitz quite a bit more didn't get a lot of pressure on Baker.

And there were open receivers, and they moved the ball pretty well. Now, it was an evenly played game. Like I said, like the Bucks defense couldn't really get off the field either. They were just dying a slower death. But they did a really good job of coaching. And I think Bowles just hasn't realized this is an offensive team. Go look at the DVOA. sign up for the FTN subscription over there at FDN Fantasy.

The DVOA tells you they're the 27th defense in the league and they're the number eight offense in the league. And oh, yeah, well, they don't have Chris Godwin and Mike Evans. I don't know. They look pretty good the last two weeks. They just played quite well against the top five defense. This is not just about those receivers. Now, they'll be much better when Mike Evans returns.

Unfortunately, they're not going to get Godwin back. But Kate Otten's making great catches. And the offensive line at this point, there's no way I could come up with five offensive lines that are better right now than the box. They weren't perfect tonight, but they play well together. They have enough high draft picks. Everyone's playing well. And so embrace being an offensive team. There were three spots in this game where he didn't go for a fourth down conversion or could have been more aggressive.

Two fourth down conversions and the two point. So right before halftime, there's a fourth in four around midfield. It's 30 seconds left. You're in that in-between where you don't want to give the Chiefs a chance, but maybe have a little confidence because you're not going to win just punting the ball away. They punt the ball away. Second half, they don't go for it on fourth and two.

They're at their own 38. I know that's hard for Todd Bowles to wrap his mind around in the year 2024, but they punt it away. And the Chiefs are back on that 38-yard line on their way to scoring a touchdown. You know, eight or nine plays later. It takes them a while, but they get there. they score a touchdown. You're probably not going to stop him anyways. Go get the two yards. I promise you can do it. And then at the end of the game, I understood them not going for two

a little bit more, only because Todd Bowles had already botched the situation by taking a time out when they got to the one yard line on first and goal. And Troy Aikman was all over this. You got to let the clock run there. You just gave them a homes a whole extra possession. If the clock is running there and they end up running that play on second down, let's say with like 10 seconds left, then I'd feel more comfortable going for two. You know that the Chiefs probably aren't going to score anyways. It's even more worth the risk. One thing that you worry about going for two

is that you can get the two and still lose the game with 30 seconds left. So you're almost between a rock and a hard place. Either way, like, I just don't think it's playing through your strengths. And so it's just very frustrating. And everyone apparently who knows the Bucks better knew he was never going to go for two there. Ryan Fitzpatrick tweeted it out like with two minutes

before they even got to that point. There's like, there's no way Todd Bowles is going for two. Yeah, and that's my concern with them going forward, too, is that this is a defensive-minded coach for the defense that doesn't stack up. So for him to force himself out of his traditional ways, which is, all right, let's tie the game and lean on the defense. You can't do that when your strength is your offense, like you just said, and not going for two there, I don't care if there was 30 seconds left,

there was five seconds left, because this Chief's offense, while it's Patrick Bohm's still back there, have not shown the explosive verticality of previous years. And yes, they had three times. timeouts, but it was a wet night. And essentially what you end up doing is forcing them into a position where they have to try to get within Harrison Buckers range on a wet night. Like, that field goal is not guaranteed no matter how good of a kicker he is. So take the chance. Go for the win instead of leaving it up to a coin flip in overtime, which obviously they

ultimately lost. The two worst drives of the night by the Chiefs were the last two in regulation where they get three and out twice. Once to give the bucks a ball back. And once again, Baker played well got that excellent touchdown drive and then they get it back with 27 seconds left and man first of all the bucks did the thing where they just kicked it and gave them ball at the 30 I'm annoyed by that each and every week but Mahomes almost threw the ball away there a couple times one time Antoine William Winfield almost made a great play on the ball it could have intercepted it and the chief's undefeated season would be over but it's not over partly because Patrick Mahomes is doing crazy things like creating space as he does,

drawing defenders up to come after him in the red zone and then throwing a touchdown to Somaget P-Run on a play that he got injured. Let's listen to the call, and then we're going to listen to Patrick Mahomes talking about the injury right after that. Hopkins goes in motion, left or right. Tight wing right side.

Mahomes on third down and goal to go. Now we'll scramble to the right. side. Now you flip it late and it's cut a touchdown. Kansas City and Mahomes is down. Mahomes is down on all fours as he flipped the ball forward to Samajai Piron for a touchdown. Kansas City, but at what price? I was obviously running for the goal line. It was about kind of committed to running the football and at the last second saw Samaj

and so kind of awkwardly rolled the ankle a little bit. definitely scary. I think it hurt more just because it's the same ankle I rolled last week. So it scared me a little bit, but once I kind of took my breath and kind of calmed down a little bit,

end up being not too bad. We're able to go in there kind of get the re-spat and go back on the football field. Shout out to Eric, Roberts, behind the glass, having a great week after this Dodgers championship. I mean, we didn't plan that ahead

that you're going to do those two in a row. He gets the injury talk during the show. That was like him being Mahomes, in the ball at the last second to Samadjip Ryan. So thank you for that, Eric. Good job. And yeah, I guess what Holmes, he's just, he's indestructible, Nick. Yeah, you know, it's, it just takes me back to the Super Bowl a couple years ago when he's got this bad ankle and everybody's worried about his ankle.

And then all of a sudden he takes off for a long run to set up the, you know, we know how that game ends, you know, the holding call and the field goal and everything else. It's just like, this guy can be hobbled and he can have foot issues going into games. He can have ankle issues going into games. And that's, you know, you roll the inside of the ankle. It kind of freaks you out. out because it's an unnatural movement.

And yet he just bounces right back and leads, there was a sequence in the next drive where he scrambles forward and I'm like, oh, God, he's going to run on that ankle. And then he immediately finds Travis Kelsey for a first down. And I'm just like, man, this guy, whether he's an indestructible or superhuman, I don't know, but I would hate to be coaching defense against him. Yeah, and he's playing better. And it's okay to say that Patrick Mahomes can play better.

These guys aren't just robots. Hall of Famers, the best of all time. Tom Brady has good games, bad games. There's ups and downs within all of his seasons and throughout his career. The last two weeks leading into this game, I thought were probably the best two games of his season, maybe week one against the Ravens,

and then this was another excellent game by him too. So I think Mahomes was playing at a lower level, even if he shouldn't have been, I'm not saying he should have been ranked that low on QB index, but I do think he's playing better now. And that's great news for Chiefs fans, as if they need more. All right, let's take a quick break.

We're going to do some news. Oh, yeah, Dennis Allen got fired today. Forget to mention that. We're going to talk to the Saints block party guys about the Dennis Allen firing later in the show, but we got a lot of news and our players of the week to get to before that back in a second. Now, I'm Drew Franklin.

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Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Back on NFL daily, and yeah, the Saints changing head coaches in the middle of the season for the first time since Joe Vitt was the interim head coach. That was the biggest news item on Monday, but it wasn't the only coaching change. Just put a pin in the Saints for a minute. We'll get to them at the end of the show. But for now, let's do some news.

News. All right, so right after we stopped taping on Sunday night, the Raiders made some coaching changes. This feels so long ago at this point, too. It's funny, these items, Nick, that if this happened in the off season, we'd get three days out of this. It would be the biggest thing to happen all week. And now it's like, oh, yeah, the Raiders fired their offensive coordinator

after half a season, like a first-year guy. They also fired their offensive line coach and another assistant. Luke Getzzi is out with the Raiders. They have not announced who their new offensive coordinator is. They're in a bi-week right now. Scott Turner, the former Panthers and Washington coordinator and assistant is on staff there

and is believed to be a strong candidate. And I've always thought it's maybe better than the consensus opinion of him, which would mean that he's okay, because I think a lot of people haven't been a huge fan of him. He would make sense to me, but man, I thought this is a bad sign for Antonio Pierce and his tenure that he's already having to make changes, whether these are the changes he wanted to make or whether they're, you know, from above, they're making him make the changes and get rid of Getzi this early. Yeah. I mean, in your first year, you're already firing your coordinator is not good, but then again, visually, the Raiders haven't been a good football team.

And Antonio Pierce, we talked about on the show last night. He's grasping at straws at this point in a quarterback. He's benched guarder Minshu multiple times. He lost Aiden O'Connell to injury. He puts Desmond Ritter in there and doesn't get any better. So the next thing you do down the list is, all right, well, let's fire our offensive coordinator. It did make me think once the news came down, is Luke Getzzi going to get another OC job in the NFL because now he's lost two within this calendar year.

I don't think so. I don't think the results are there. But you got to do something when you rank 29th in total offense, 32nd in rushing, and 19th in passing. Your best stat is passing, and you've changed quarterbacks like. four times. So things are not good for the Raiders. They're headed toward a dark place right now. Yeah, one of the worst rushing games of the last 20 years. I think that's the main reason why they were so pass-heavy on Sunday against the Bengals, although they kind of moved the ball and were relatively effective for a decent part of the game. I don't know what anyone in Las Vegas

was expecting. They have underperformed, but considering they don't have Devante Adams and they've had some injuries like I don't think they're underperforming by that much this this offense was was never going to be good and yeah it makes you worried about Antonio Pierce this year because that could be something where ownership is already getting involved and frustrated and then the change happens right off the bat so yeah a lot of kind of the I don't know the national teams are struggling right now the Raiders are struggling the Giants certainly are struggling The Cowboy season feels over. Dak Prescott is going to miss multiple weeks,

according to our insider, Ian Rappaport. Injured Reserve is possible because of his hamstring injury. C.D. Lamb has a sprained AC joint. He has a chance to play this week. He's week to week, which I guess Michael Parsons is as well. But, yeah, Cooper Rush starting against the Eagles this week. It was already over, but this is like a necker. level of over where they're thinking, well, I wonder how high our draft

pick is going to be. Yeah, rivalry or not, I think that's going to be a ugly game for the Cowboys. And this is a team that's just been crushed by injuries on both sides of the ball. But they also were a pretty talent poor receiver to begin with. And when you lean that heavily on C.D. Lamb and then you lose him. And Jack Prescott actually had a decent game before he exited with an injury. It just kind of cap, it just captures where they are as a team this year, which is just low ceiling. Not going to be that good. I don't care how good of a coaching job Mike McCarthy might even do, they just don't have the tools necessary, and now you lose your quarterback. It's not going to get any better anytime soon. No, Zach Martin isn't playing

that well at guard, like the offensive line in that game, even against the Falcons, it's crazy. And, you know, for once I actually thought, there's actually some open receivers there for Dak. We were playing the Falcons, so I guess that happens. But man, it is brutal because they're in a lot of TV spots that we need to take them out of because I do not. need to watch this Cowboys team in high leverage. Let's get the flex going. Let's start flexing. Please. More on that in a minute. There were, there was one trade at least. We're going to do the trade deadline spectacular on Tuesday, but there was a trade. The Broncos traded Baron Browning to the Cardinals for a sixth round pick. They also signed another pass rusher. The Broncos did

Jonathan Cooper to a long-term extension, four years, $60 million. So that that room was really crowded for the Broncos. Baron Browning is going to be a free agent in the offseason. It's almost like they kind of are choosing. We've got like four guys here. Browning maybe doesn't fit our scheme. Cardinals send them a late pick. They could certainly use some pass rush help. And Browning's a talented player who's been up and down, I would say, in his career, but he jumps off the tape when he's good. Yeah, he was a highlight a couple of years ago, but I think that illustrates the differences in regime changes. When you lose the coach that maybe elevated you, previously and suddenly a new regime's in there

and you're not that guy anymore you're not their guy anymore and they've got to make choices like that well that tends to happen you ship them out for a day three pick that doesn't really amount too much at least on the surface and decide to go with the guy you prefer which that's business in the NFL plain and simple. I also

like it's interesting because it kind of shows where the Broncos are not that Browning wasn't that important of a player for them he's coming off an injury but just they're sort of in between where they're willing to probably be buyers and sellers like if something comes along. They're just fine-tuning their team. Third year of Sean Payton is kind of their go year.

That'll be next season. And I like that the Cardinals are in a place where it's like, yeah, we need bodies. We need a chance. We're trying to make this happen. There is a playoff spot available for us in this NFC West. They got a chance to do it. So they're trying to improve their team. We'll see if they'll do it anymore on Tuesday. Another NFC West team, the 49ers opened up Christian McCaffrey's practice window. I think we're getting Christian McCaffrey back this week, at least according to John Lynch, their GM. Long overdue. The 49ers could use that jolt offensively. I mean, look, this guy's in the cover of Madden. He's one of the best players in the NFL. I'm very much looking forward to seeing him coming back and adding that weapon to an offense that could definitely

use him. Yeah, cover of Madden, though, you know, it's at a check of history. No, the curse is overblown. It's overblown. Peyton Hillis. That was a fan vote. We were in a, and, a book off at the mall on Saturday, and my son was looking for, you know, old video games to buy. We got an MLB, the show, actually, like a two, 2020. I was just like, I'll get you that for some, you know, like, use video games. There's seven bucks or whatever. I was like, sure, let's get it. Anyways, I saw the Madden. They have old ass Maddens there. They had a Madden 08 with Vince Young on the cover. And I was like, the kids don't know, and it's not a college, it's not like coming out of college. The kids don't know

rookie Vince Young was a good time. And like I totally get why he was on that cover. He was a great time for a minute. And like people think of him as a bust or whatever. He had a lot of good moments in the NFL that a lot of quote-unquote busts never have. So I will always defend rookie

second year Vince Young. I agree. Could you tell me who was on the cover the year before? I know you can't but I'm going to tell you. Well, there were a couple wacky ones there. I'm trying to remember. Tell me. The wacky ones came later. Haddon 07, Sean Alexander was on the cover. Okay.

No, that makes sense. He got the MVP. One of the more underwhelming MVPs of all time. Don't come at me, Seahawks fans. A.J. Brown is not expected to miss significant time with the knee injury that he had, according to Jeff McLean of the Philly Inquirer. So maybe he has a chance to play this week. Although, with the way this Cowboys team looks, maybe don't rush him back if you don't need to.

A couple other just small injury items. The bills sent Keon Coleman to an ever. MRI for wrist injury. That sounds a little dicey and maybe getting a second opinion. So I don't like that. Duane Smoot, who's played some good snaps for them as a rotational defensive lineman's going to injured reserve. The Titans lost quandary digs for the season to a Liz Frank injury. They are also hopeful that this is the week for Will Levis to return. And then finally, we got some flex news. Look, I think every time we do a flex, you should flex. I should have told you this ahead of time because you know you got you got the long sleeves the shirt under here i mean i could

take it off if you want no please i mean we we do use you for you know your massive sex appeal shook but i don't want to go i don't want to go that far uh that they flex the jets out of primetime that's fun because i'm thinking back to before the season the NFL said the jets owe us some primetime games and i was thinking during this last one i was like okay they they've owed us enough and they took the Jets out of prime time in a couple weeks. I think it was what? A Jets, man, now I'm forgetting, it was a Jets Colts game in prime time. Yeah, you don't need the Colts again. And they're putting Bengals Chargers. Now, the Bengals could very easily be four and six going into that game if they don't win this Thursday night against the Ravens. But who cares? The Bengals are still going to be

in the mix at four and six. Bengals, Chargers, Herbert Burrow. That's fun. Yeah, that's fun. A matchup of two of the brightest young talents at quarterback. Although they've been in the least, league long enough now that. I don't know if I can necessarily say they're quite as young as they were before they feel fairly established. Herbert's on a heater, which we discussed in yesterday's show, and Burrow has been good all year. So that attracts more eyeballs, I think, than another week of Aaron Rogers and, you know, the saga that is the Jets against the Colts team that really underwhelmed in primetime on Sunday night. Right. And it'd be Rogers versus Flacco. I mean, the Colts are, I'm sure, a big part of this, too, like after seeing what they did on Sunday

night football NBC was like no thanks don't want to do do that again we don't want the flacco Rogers like you know Ravens Packers rematch from 2014 if that ever happened I have no idea if that ever happened but you know those two guys would be slinging it around with strong arms you know what time of the show it is Nick it's a big time it's a great time it's it's time for the captain's corner presented by Captain Morgan as always I'm letting you start first all right well we're going to go with what might seem like a bit of a layup pick and it's going to be none other than Joey Burr, Joe

Burrow, for his five touchdown performance, right? That's what is deserving of Captain's Corner, but that's not why I'm picking him. I'm picking him because Joe Burrow threw his fifth touchdown pass of a romp over the Raiders and you could tell that he was not at all satisfied with

where the Bengals are or his performance in the day because he knows it's only one win and because of the hole they dug themselves in early, they have a long way to go. Let's listen to his post-game. to his teammates. We're traveling on Wednesday. Today's Sunday.

Get your bodies right. Get your minds right. It's a big one on Thursday. You know, he's still thinking about that play that play that he and Chase didn't connect on because he's a perfectionist, even in a game that's 3817. The position they put themselves in, the mentality from now on has to be after today's game, nine down one to go.

The expression in that clip, if you're watching on YouTube, which if you're listening on podcast, he is as stoic as can be. He just threw his fifth touchdown pass. He's had a great day, not excited at all. That expression says it all. Look, we were in a bad spot early. It's been a very frustrating first quarter to half of the season, and we're finally starting to hit our stride.

But guys, we cannot enjoy this with victory cigars because we have so much further to go if you want to actually be in this race. That is the leadership that I expect from a selection for Captain's Corner, and that's why I'm picking Joe Burrow right there. It's funny because, Greg, it reminded me. I went Saturday night and hung out with my niece and nephew. I played Nintendo with the Switch with my nephew and I'm killing him in Mario Kart

and after like three races he just I look over at him and he's just stone face and I'm like hey what's wrong he's four and he's like I don't want to play this anymore that's what Joe Burrow looked like it struck me in that moment so good on Joe for leading by example great choice I love the reasoning too

and yeah that reminds me I didn't even mention Jack Jones with one of my favorite defensive players of the year on a pick six on Burrow earlier in the fourth quarter So maybe he was salty about that. They had a three-and-out earlier, and he knows that they can't be making those mistakes

against the Ravens that they were making in the fourth quarter, even if it felt meaningless. And that's why Joe Burrow is who Joe Burrow is. And he also might have been annoyed because his rookie receiver let the team down. I meant to mention this during the recap show, and I think it's worth mentioning here because seeing him on the bench reminded me of a clip

that was going around social media. at some point in the game he said something Jermaine Burton who's their rookie third round pick and he looked very serious saying it and Jermaine Burton looked serious listening to it and then Jermaine Burton got up off the bench and the speculation was that Joe Burrow was like you have an urn sitting down

he's in street clothes you have no right to be sitting down during this game who knows if that's exactly what he said but the reporting in Cincinnati from Paul Dainer of the athletic in a few places was they talked all week that they were making Burton a big part of the game plan the whole team the players he's really matured all this stuff and they wanted him to kind of step into a starting role because Yoshubas has been a little quiet as the second or third receiver whatever he's going to be Burton's talented has been playing better and he literally

didn't show up on Saturday for walkthrough which is crazy and that always makes you a little worried whether there's more to the story. We don't know. I don't want to speculate on that. But whatever it was, he did not show up to the walkthrough. And the way his coach and his teammates talked about it out afterwards, it was a broad spectrum of just pissed, worried, disappointed, and just like W-2F, like, we cannot trust this kid.

So who knows? Maybe he was a little salty about that, too. I just wanted to mention that because it was a little interesting wrinkle of a guy that had some issues coming into the league, and now you wonder, like, are they going to trust him again at any point? Because in theory, he should have a big role in Thursday night's game if T. Higgins isn't available yet. Yeah, I mean, you're dealing with whatever team deals with,

which is injuries at certain positions. But at receiver, especially, it's very important to this team because they learned early in the season that they have to put up a lot of points. And the defense has kind of come around a little bit, but they still know they have to put up a lot of points to win games. And their backs are against the wall. So now is not the time for you, rookie, to not show up because you overslept or whatever it might have been.

Get to work on time, be a pro. And I'm glad Joe Burrow is taking the lead on that. Well, they didn't, like, they said, like, no contact from him either. So that's a tough one. You don't hear that too often at the NFL level of just, like, total no-shooth. But he was there on Sunday. Ironically showed up, like, with pajama pants on, which. If it was a road game, he probably wouldn't have made the flight.

For some reason, I was just thinking, like, I know it doesn't really matter what he showed up in, but if you're going to not completely show up and then basically get suspended, you know, like a soft suspension for the game on Sunday, you know, just put on some jeans or something. Dressed for work. I mean, come on.

Pajama pants. My captain, I almost forgot, we're still in the corner. It's just got to be the Cardinals coaching staff in general. Yeah, I'm going to coaches. I'm going to multiple coaches. This thing is loose. Nick Rawless, the defensive coordinator of the Cardinals, great game plan against the Bears,

has done a good job, I think, with an underman team all year. But he's getting the nod here because he named his son Dominic Kaiser Rallis. Yeah, he named his son after Kaiser White. One of my weirdly favorite players in the NFL. You brought up a tough...

Yeah, you brought up a tough memory for me mentioning the Patrick Mahomes high ankle spraying run that he had in the Super Bowl because the guy that he did in the open field, which changed the course of Super Bowl history, was Kaiser White. But naming your son after Kaiser-Wa-Wa, love that. Who knows? Maybe they'll just call him Kaiser.

I don't know if he's going to go by the middle name or the first name, but good job by him. And then just to spread it out, I'm going to give Jeff Rogers, the special teams coordinator, some love, too, because some great punt coverage, some diving on the one-yard line, but especially that his players We're prepared for something that's literally never happened, at least that I've ever seen. And it's not in its current formation where on a free kick, the way that the blockers are set up is the same as the kickoff, the new dynamic kickoff, 10 yards apart. So this has never actually happened, shook, in the history of football. Tori Taylor of the Bears did a free kick where you punt it, but he did a free on-side punt. hunt and the Cardinals were completely ready for it and Tori Taylor nailed this thing he hit it straight up in the air

it only went about 10 yards forward and everyone on the Cardinals was like fair catch fair catch and they caught it and everyone just walked away and the broadcast booth like who who's ever even seen anything like that before you know who had apparently the Cardinals special teams in practice at some point in the off season so good job by Jeff Rogers getting them ready for that moment it was just a small stupid thing. It tickled me in the moment. It's like, okay, I've never seen that before. I mean, sometimes you get things you never seen before, like Sequin Barclay, jumping, you know, ass first over someone, and then you get stuff like that. This was not as impressive, but it's still pretty cool. I feel like I've seen that in a game recently, maybe in the last couple weeks, but I might

be wrong. Maybe I'm just like, everything's blending together at this point in week nine. But good on him for preparing his guys. I will say this. Naming your kid, the middle name after a player, definitely trumps Nick Siriani's award for the defensive player who got a takeaway of a parking spot. I think the name carries more permanence than a parking spot for a week. That's fair. Yeah, Kaiser White, he's followed him from Philly to Arizona. Good on the Cardinals coaching staff. That was the captain's quarter presented by Captain Morgan. It's delicious and crisp. Perfect for game day with friends. Spice it up, visit Captain Morgan.com to find a captain near you. Please drink responsibly. Now we're hitting, you know, one of the tougher

for parts of the week for me, Shook. It's my time without you. I got to wait all the way to next Sunday to get back to Nick at night, back to back nights. We've got to get you on a midweek show one of these weeks. Yeah, I mean, absolutely, I'm always down.

You know it, but I'll tell you what. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you came straight from a sales background with the way that you just laid that on thick. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. All right, we're going to talk a little Dennis Allen and the Saints. What is next for this organization?

What a crazy situation that they are in moving forward. Talking with the Saints' Block Party podcast about the Dennis Allen firing after the break. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.

What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody?

Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game. from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends in how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers,

and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction,

and the trends that shape the league. year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score,

this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Back on NFL Daily. excited for this conversation.

Not sure how this conversation is going to go. I'm looking across the city of Los Angeles at my friend Adam. I'm looking at across the country at my friend Ryan from the Saints Block Party podcast. Yes, some of the most frequent

guests of this season. They were on after week two when we were talking about Super Bowl aspirations for this Saints team. They were on after Sean Peyton kind of does about four feet of the grave for Dennis Allen and now we're here after yes Dennis Allen has been fired by the Saints and there's no one I wanted to talk

about this transaction with more Adam you look you look too happy for another man's downfall it's like I'm not gonna say it's like Mardi Gras for y'all but it's like it's like Lundigra it's like the day before he's getting paid seven million dollars a year with a 26 and 53 head coaching record I Respectfully, I do not care. I don't care, Greg. I don't care. Okay.

When you heard the news, obviously, it couldn't have been too shocking coming off of that performance against Carolina. What's your, like, we've buried Dennis Allen enough. That's not fun to do at this point. You mentioned his record. Yeah, that's 147th out of 149 qualifying coaches in terms of all-time winning percentage. Now, most of that was with the,

the Raiders, but he was 18 and 25 with the Lions, which is not great. We can move past it. Look, this is a man who coached up a lot of good defenses for the Saints as a coordinator, but he's the ultimate Peter Principal, head coach in the NFL, good coordinator, bad head coach. We get it. Big picture, they named Darren Rizzy the interim, but I think there was a lot of interesting takeaways from how this transaction was messaged and some of the reporting. that's come out about it. Where do you want to start? Let's start with the two biggest things I found so interesting is that Gail Benson has woken up. For the last two weeks, she has essentially not been listening

to Mickey Loomis and what he's been telling her how the team is doing, how he's been telling her how Dennis Allen is doing as the head coach. And she went out and talked to players on the side, talk to personnel people on the side to get their thoughts and opinions on Dennis Allen. It seems like she is no longer listening to, I won't say the lies, but maybe the fluffing that Mickey Loomis was doing. And she is trying to be an active owner because as much as she may not be a sports person, no one who had a product wants to continually have their product be seen and

look embarrassing. Losing to the Panthers, one of the worst teams in the NFL for the last three seasons, was embarrassing. And so she also made the call to relieve Dennis Allen of his duties. This was not a Mickey Loomis call. And the second thing, kind of to tie into that, the people that addressed the team after when it was told to the team that Dennis Allen was let go was Foster Monroe and Darren Rizzy. Why would the NFL general manager of a team not addressed the team when this happened?

Why would he, why was he not there front and center of the press conference and Darren Rizzi's out there? He's going to have his spot on WWL, but I'm not saying Mickey Loomis is going to get relieved of his duties, but there's something happening within that building on Airline Drive, and it's just not the, I believe the Dennis Allen part of it is just the start of it. What do you think, Ryan? 100%. He's 100% right. It's refreshing to see that Gail Benson is alive, though, because look, she's been the owner for a couple of years now. since Tom Benson passed. Nobody really knew how she would move in this situation because she hasn't had to really make any moves. Mickey Loomis has been the de facto manager, owner of the team.

He's the one that made all the move. She's been encapsulated with her circle. So nobody really knew, you know, we were covering this last night. You know, we were wondering what the NFL gets fired. And we thought, look, if he were to get fired after this Panthers game, it would have to be a Gail Benson call. Would she make that call? And she did.

She got out there and she talked to the players personally. She went around Mickey Loomis. And I think that just speaks. It says so much just right there. It just shows that there's a level of trust that's decreasing just a little bit. Not a lot, but just a little bit as far as running the organization. Because Dennis Allen was his guy.

Right. So let's back it up for a second. Mickey Loomis has been with the Saints organization since 2000. So he precedes Sean Payton. He precedes Gail Benson. Now, you mentioned Gail Benson's only been the owner of the team for so many years. I think Tom Benson died in 2018. I was actually weirdly on NFL network, on call all that week, to talk about Tom Benson's legacy.

I read the book Jeff Duncan wrote about Tom Benson just to be ready for that moment. So weird, because they just knew I was a safe guy and they didn't have anyone. Very weird. So she's owned the team for six years. And look, they were married since 2004. So she's been, you can say she's not, doesn't have a sports background,

but she's been in this game for a while. Now, we don't need to get into the whole story of how she became the owner. There were lawsuits between her side and Tom Benson and his daughter from a previous marriage and her kids. And ultimately, in his will, the team was left to her. So she is the active owner. And to me, this is her first real test as the active owner

because when Sean Payton essentially quit, the idea was, let's just keep it rolling. Let's keep it rolling with Mickey Loomis. Let's not upset the apple cart. Dennis Allen has a good defense. Let's just keep it going. And everyone decided to do that. And now the question, as you guys said, was was she actually going to make a move on her own?

And I want to read the statement that Mickey Loomis released on Monday. His statement read, Dennis Allen is an excellent football coach. This season, we have had an avalanche of injuries. It took its toll. Dennis Allen never offered excuses. He fought each day for his organization and this team. And that's what makes today disappointing. Dennis has been an integral part of this organization's success

for the better part of 20 years he will be missed. I never heard a GM release a statement like that. That felt like he was upset. And when you're saying that she contacted the players directly, there's been various reporting. Nick Underhill at New Orleans Football has reported that. It's been out there in different places, New Orleans Times Picayune,

different versions of this. story that, yes, the players were involved. And that's crazy. And that tells me that Mickey Loomis is probably not long for this job. But every Saints fan, Adam, tells me I'm wrong. Every Saints fan is like, nope, they're never going to get rid of Mickey Loomis. It's never going to happen. And I think when an owner does a move like this, it's a sign that she's open to anything.

Going on with that, I've heard, not only was Gil Benson canvassing information for players on Dennis Allen. I also heard that she was canvassing information on Mickey Loomis from players, from personnel. And when you're doing that, I'm not saying it's going to lead to something, but the structure, the crumbles and the fractures of trust is definitely there. I kind of felt like Mickey Loomis, to use a Game of Thrones reference, Mickey Loomis was like Littlefinger to Gayle Benson.

He goes, just slides. job preservation job preservation and at some point Sanzah comes to her senses and just like no sorry just completely just nerdy Game of Throne talk but came to her senses like no you are not I don't want to hear it from you because I know you're lying to me

it feels like that's in motion right now within the team hierarchy and going back to that statement you just read like I was confused was like Dennis Allen fired or was he promoted like it's such a weird statement what it was almost a defiant statement you know yes

The wheel was red. It was, and this is a defiant guy. It's a defiant organization. Look, they stood behind Mickey and Sean Payton through Bountygate, like, as hard as it as they possibly could. Mickey Loomis and Sean Payton, look, he was the best man at his wedding. And Sean Peyton goes, they stood behind Mickey Loomis. This is a man that helped run the New Orleans Pelicans. It does on some level still, but, you know, was on a more day-to-day.

level. So it's a very fascinating organization to me in terms of how it's run, but it was absolutely defiant. And this is a guy, Mickey Loomis, for what it's worth, we want to talk GM records, 46 and 61 without

Sean Payton at coach. And one of the reasons I bring all this up, and maybe this is getting too nerdy for our listeners, but I think it's really interesting, is there is no way for this organization to move forward to me unless it's a total restart. Because the way they've done things in terms of pushing all that cap money into the future,

and Derek Carr has a lot of money next year, and there's a lot of contracts that are next year, and there's a lot of old players on this roster, I think it only makes sense to start over with a fresh front office and a fresh restart and a group that's going to be willing to maybe feel some short-term pain. It might be a year or two. It might not be. Like some of the teams with huge dead cap money have been very successful, including the Broncos, like right now. But a team that's really willing to rip the band-aid off. And to me, keeping the same guy that's run the team, Ryan, since 2000,

how could that be a fresh start? Exactly. I mean, you got to make a move. Like, will he get fired or will he move into, like, another, you know, position within the organization? I don't care. I don't care how they do it.

But something needs to happen. There needs to be a large organizational change. They need to rip the band-aid off. Look, the cap nerds have been screaming about it for years. The Saints keep, Oh, God. Like, to keep kicking a hand down the road. And I hate that analysis.

But to be in a situation like this where we're picking top five, looking like we're going to pick top five in the draft, and use $75 million over the cab next year. That is, that is just, that's this terrible business. Right. They've been spending into the, to Dale Benson's credit, they've been spending more money in the last five, six years in terms of cash than they actually used to back under Tom Benson.

And it's quite a history because when you think about it, like, Sean Payton helped get Mickey Loomis fired. They could really write. This is like some telo novella stuff. You know what I mean? It's all mixed up. And look, everyone's got a little egg on their face. I went back and listened to that week two show just for fun this afternoon. Because I got to admit, I was looking for a sound bite where I could clown y'all.

and play something funny, or myself. We stand by it. You know what? It was more composed than I thought. You guys went way harder on your podcast, on Saints Black Party than on mine. That was where Ryan really hit it when you guys talking about Kendrae Miller.

Oh, Ken-Drey Miller was the difference. When Adam asked, are you guys, are we Super Bowl contenders or not? And Ryan answered, well, if Kendra Miller comes back healthy. Kendra Intes-Rathing, baby. That's the difference. Oh, man. You did say they were the best O line in the league.

It just is a reminder how seasons can change fast because they were two and O scoring all these points. We thought it was maybe going to be a Derrick Carr Renaissance. Instead, Derek Carr and his coach have an interesting statistical factoid that Dennis Allen's the only coach to ever be fired in two places with the same quarterback. Unbelievable. And before the show, we were talking about, ooh, the Saints should get,

Arch Manning in a few years, which would be interesting. And I don't know if you know this fact, Adam. Derek Carr, this last weekend, tied Archie Manning for losing to the most organizations in the NFL, 31. So I don't know who's the 32nd. I'll have to find out. The Raiders. Okay, the cars, yeah, the cars could, you know, he could break that record at some point,

but I don't know if y'all can wait around long enough to get Arch Manning. That's a while. Yeah, it's a while. It's a while, and I will say this. From what I heard this morning after all, everything happened, the Saints have their eyes set on either Detroit coordinator, which is funny because Aaron Glenn interviewed for the job when Sean Payton stepped down and I was told like he blew the Saints organization away for how like how well he interviewed. It sounds very kind of coded. I think they interviewed him as like a Rooney, like a Rooney checkmark and like was like, oh, like he. actually might be a good head coach.

So they're interested in Ben Johnson. They're interested in Aaron Glenn. They're interested in Mike Drable. They're going to see how it goes with Darren Rizzy as interim head coach. Just as a fan, I'm just happy to hear those names. Does it mean that they're going to land any of those, any of those names? Who knows? But it just needs to shift away from, you got to let the past be the past.

And you have to evolve. You have to move on. And this is the first step into that. But, like, you keep saying, if Mickey Loomis is part of it, it's hard to kind of let go of the past when he's such a prevalent part of the past. Exactly. Because, I mean, one of the big reasons the Saints have such a bad salary cap issue and the Saints aren't as talented as they were is the draft. And the drafting has been horrible the past couple of years. Azaevowski, second round pick, Brian Bazee, who looks good, but, you know, isn't, maybe hasn't lived up.

you know, oh, my God. I mean, you can go on and on for days. They have to take a look at what they're doing, the way they're building this team, and really start back fresh at the table and continue to build up, you know, from that, you know, from the foundation because right now the foundation is just crumbling. It's tough.

They're in as tough a situation as any team outside of Cleveland, I would say right now in the NFL. But they're there. But things can, they can change fast. Like, we have seen in the NFL, if you get the right coach, certainly the right quarterback, you can be rolling in year two. So it doesn't have to be some really long rebuild. But, yeah, that Derek Carr doing that Michael Jackson move in the end zone while you were in the crowd in Dallas. That feels like a long time ago.

Dennis Allen, after the game, dropping some Kendrick-Levon lyrics. Like, eight-year-game since. Not a game since. And the NFL season is long. Speaking of which, Darren Rizzy has got a coach. eight games here. Our friend Randy Chavez cut some sound bites from Darren Rizzy. He was their special teams coach.

I love the sound of him at his press conference. Let's listen to a couple answers that he had. Listen, they should be pissed off. I'm pissed off. The fans should be pissed off. The people in New Orleans, the people of Louisiana, no one should be happy. And I think this city deserves a winner. They know what winning football looks like.

And, you know, it's our job. to bring that back. You know, there's a bunch of different ways to do it. I think we've been doing things around here the same way for a long, long time, and maybe some are good, maybe some aren't. We can make some changes, so, but there'll be some different things that we do for sure. Ooh, we've been doing things the same for a long, long time. That was good. This could be fun. I don't know if you guys remember the Joe Vit era, but he's giving me some Joe Vit vibes. I love a fiery special teams interim head coach, like what Dan Campbell was the interim head coach in Miami, like, he's got to give you guys

some fun, and you got the Falcons coming up, Ryan. This is like your Super Bowl. The Raider Special Team's coach for a little bit. Vasatchia. He was, there you got. Yeah. I've been calling I've been calling, this my interim head coach for weeks not, because I knew this day was

coming. And he just, definitely he just like exude that his head coach, just gets a team hyped up for two games, you go and win two and then lose the rest. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's the most we're going to get. And that's fine with me. Let's not win too much here. You know, let's not win too much here. You know, maybe get a top five pick. I know, I know, like, I hate,

I hate that type of thinking, like, you know, just losing to get picks. But look, man, this is where we are, you know what I'm saying? But you want to win Sunday, right? This is, oh, this is not Super Bowl. It's like the Patriots Jets game two weeks ago. That was the Patriots Super Bowl. They just wanted to drag down their rivals into the mud with them. Tell me it wouldn't be fun. I know our friend Spicerack, Brad Spicer's out here with the fired coach principal. He's going to be believing in your saints. They're going to be playing hard. When I saw some of those quotes from from Honey Badger and Alvin Camara, players are already having Rizzi shirts. They have Rizzi shirts. I'm going to, Carl Granderson's putting up

Instagram posts of walking into, I mean, I feel bad for Dennis Allen at this point. Please don't. Please don't. And here's the, here's the crazy part of it. Yes, we want to beat the Falcons, and that's, and that is huge. You know, this is, quote-unquote, our Super Bowl. But I want to, like, point out to another little thing in the dead and Rizzi thing, and I don't, I don't feel like I'm reading too much into it. When he was asked, you know, the teams have two young quarterbacks on the roster, could they see them, like, getting looked at them for evaluation for the future?

And he said, like, you know, I envisioned Derek Carr being the starter for us on Sunday. he did not he did not go further than that like it was on sunday um so i i do think if the if the season continues to go how it has been maybe they they beat the falcons maybe they lose you know you know a cloud or a cluster of games at some point you you have to see what you have in rattler in a better situation with hainer in a better situation because you're going to be comparing these guys and you're going to compare them and grading them and grading them how of this upcoming quarterback class, the Cam Ward, the Sanders, the Quinn yours,

because you have to know, do we need to draft one in the top five or do we feel like we can go BPA and maybe we could go with who we have in the building? It's a crucial question that they have to know going into the offseason. Man, I don't feel like they're going to get a good situation for them to play with. And I don't think either of these quarterbacks really have a chance, talent-wise, makeup-wise,

to be able to excel. the situation to change any of their draft plans. Doesn't mean they can't be in the mix next year and you never know, but I have a hard time believing no matter what Spencer Rattler does this season, that it's going to impact their draft status. But you never know, sometimes things get freaky with interim head coaches. Sometimes they get them winning. Maybe it would be fun.

Let's actually listen to one more Darren Rizzy sound before we go. This one, Randy flagged, and it just cracked me up. LeBron can drop 60. J.R. Smith can go two for 21, like you know. normally did, and LeBron could, you know, they're still going to win. I heard that earlier, and I was, I was like, J.R. Smith getting just shots? For what? I think he was saying, like, the stars can play well, but if your role players aren't playing

well, then it's not going to matter, but he sort of stumbled on it. You was talking about Aaron Judge, but that's what I like about interim coaches. You never know what they're going to say. They're going to be media trained. Appreciate you guys. it really feels like this was our Star Wars trilogy of the Saints season

maybe it's the Godfather trilogy because the third one it's just like it's not going right but yeah we got the highs we got an emotional loss to Deshaun Payton

and here we are with big changes appreciate you guys thank you for having us all man that's that's Ryan and Adam from the Saints block party

podcast. Everyone check out their show. That's it for this one. We're going to be back very soon. It's trade deadline. We're going to put up the show a little earlier. Me, Mike Garifolo, Jordan Roderig, responding to all the trade deadline, so those will come up on

Tuesday. And yeah, when the Saints are making big old changes, you know football is back. This is an I-Heart podcast. Thank you.