NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Christmas Games Recap + Broncos Fire Hackett

Episode Date: December 26, 2022

A virtual room filled with a couple heroes - Gregg Rosenthal and Marc Sessler recap the rest of Week 16, from the Saturday night game through Sunday night's matchup, starting with Packers at Dolphins (1:44), followed by Raiders at Steelers (13:47), Buccaneers at Cardinals (21:42), and finishing this mini recap with Broncos at Rams (29:28). Gregg and Marc also react to the Broncos firing Nathaniel Hackett after Sunday's loss with more discussion to come on Tuesday's show. Note: timecodes approximate.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast. The alternative rock of football podcasts. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. I'm Greg Rosenthal in a virtual room filled with a hero. Mark Sessler is with me on a show unlike any other, Mark. We've never done a mini post-Christmas recap. I hope your Christmas was great.

Consider this like the heat and light podcast, except it's like the cold and dark podcast. Yeah, there's a very similar vibe to that show and what we're about to bring to the listener right now. I hope you had a good Christmas too. We texted a little bit late at night. There was nonstop football starting here on the West Coast at 10 a.m. until deep into the evening.

And I think that's how the NFL wants it. It was a lot of football. It's not going to be like that every year. It is rare that I guess Christmas will fall on a Sunday. I did go back. I noticed last time it was on a Sunday, it was two games, though. So they did push it a little farther. In seven years, I'm looking forward to the podcast when there's seven games on Christmas Sunday.

It is impending. Yeah, Justin Graver. Also with us, Dan is sitting this one out, and we'll be back with Dan on our regularly scheduled Tuesday show. I hope everyone out there had a great Christmas, including you, Justin. And let's get to the first game. Let's start in the AFC where the biggest games were really played. I think the best game that we haven't covered, we have Christmas Eve to cover, and the three Christmas games, the best of those games was played in Miami.

Second down and six now for Miami of the 31-yard line of the Dolphins. Snap toa, looking right. Heves it right side. Intercepted. Intercepted. Rasul Douglas, and there is your dagger. The Packers' defense. Coming through in a big spot out of nowhere.

26 to 20. That was Tua Tunga Vailoa's third interception of the fourth quarter alone. My God, what a meltdown after the dolphins raced out to a 20 to 10 lead, had a chance to go up even bigger before halftime, and then it all fell apart in the second half mark. The Packers are alive in the playoff race, and the Dolphins let you down, because I know you wanted the Dolphins to win this game, right?

You know what I want to see was just the dolphins kind of proved that the last, the troubles they encountered over the last, you know, three plus weeks outside of the Buffalo showing were a typical of them, that they aren't that team, that they had a chance to, you know, in a young system, first year head coach, come back and show they were the team from the early part of the season. I mean, instead, it keeps Green Bay completely alive. And I think this is a very different Packers team than I feel like I was watching, you know,

weeks ago. They've kind of changed themselves, especially on defense. But the narrative around Tua, I think it's really fair just to look at his body of work over the last, you know, three or four games and say, there are a lot of questions about Tua. Like, he was in the perfect environment, the perfect scheme. And, you know, like, they didn't, the Packers didn't use a ton of man-to-man coverage the same way that we saw early on with the Niners game and then against the Chargers. It was a lot of zone and they still figured him out. He seemed to sort of lost to me.

I thought all three of his picks were really on him. It wasn't one of these situations where if you watch it, it's bouncing off of two people. He admitted each of me, went through one by one by one, each of the picks and just sort of said, the last one was a communication issue, but they were on to a. and it sabotaged the Dolphins who really had no business losing this game with all the big plays they got early on. Right. Like you mentioned it, the Packers defense in the first half of the game

was the Packers' defense we saw a year. They had 270 yards at halftime the Dolphins. I thought they could have had about 35 points at halftime. And Tua was playing great. I mean, he was throwing the ball with anticipation, and he was right on the money. You had the 80-yarder to Jalen Waddle. At one point, Tua had completed five passes for 192 yards, which is just wild.

And they were up 20 to 10, and the defense for the Packers looked like they weren't going to get a stop. And Geron Reed caused a fumble right before halftime. It was 20 to 10, and the dolphins were theoretically driving to go ahead, maybe 27 to 10. At that point in the game, the only way the dolphins had stopped was penalties. and like mistakes. Tua actually fritzed out and fumbled the ball on the third down early in the game.

That was a little canary in the coal mine for what was going to come because there was a couple times in the game he just did not show much poise, but they recovered that fumble. They kicked a field goal on that drive and the Packers seemed like they had no answer. They forced the fumble there.

They get a field goal before halftime. It's only seven points. And then the second half defensively was totally opposite. This is a majorly concerning game for Tua. We'll get to Green Bay quickly. we're not going to like make this an hour-long show, Mark, I know you don't want. I mean, I do think of the one thing about Green Bay that felt to me like they,

Aaron Rogers, for all the little items that I find annoying about him at times, he seems locked in on the fact that like their playoff chances are real right now. He mentioned it over and over. Everything went right on Saturday for Green Bay. And I thought they approached this game with a kind of win or die situation. They went for five fourth downs. I think they converted three of them. They had that bizarre fake punt from their own 20, which was a botched job.

But to their credit, the defense from their own 20 allowed just a field goal to Miami. That could have been like a backbreaking kind of situational problem for Green Bay right there. I thought they were very aggressive. Aaron Rogers didn't look perfect to me. He made just enough throws. I think we got to see what goes on with Christian Watson because it's a hip injury. And, you know, that to me losing him is a major issue for Green Bay. If he goes out, he's been a star for them.

Yeah, it was weird because they actually weren't unbelievable offensively off all those turnovers, four turnovers. They scored nine points, so they didn't get a touchdown off the turnovers. And then they had the kickoff return to start the game, which returned the ball to about the 10-yard line, Kishon Nixon, who also got hurt. So two explosive players for the Packers, Watson A and Nixon got hurt, and he only got three points off of that. So Rogers was up and down, and I thought it was telling he had told the announcer's like,

I'm glad I can really play quarterback this week. I hated the way the Rams played us. And what that meant was like Rogers was going to just hold the ball forever, try to make a play, make some hero ball plays. And he hit a bunch of them and he missed a bunch of them too. He did not play well in the first half, but he got it done. And the two interceptions, you mentioned how he went through it one by one. Okay.

The third one to me was by far the most concerning. At that point, he had already been picked off twice. a row to start the fourth quarter. First one was just like a bad throw where he tried to force it in there between four guys and it would have had to been perfect, and it was just a bad decision and a bad throw. The next one, Rahim Moster and him weren't on the same page. That one's hard to really know what happened there, but another play where it seemed like Tua predetermined what he was going to do.

And that was what happened on that last play. Some smarter people than me pointed out, Tua, you know, has the open receiver underneath here. The coverage dictated he absolutely had to throw it to the underneath receiver. It would have been a first down. And it was like he was already in his own head and was going to throw the deeper throw. And the Packers read it and picked it off. And I give them credit for making a bunch of plays. But to a, oh man, to have that sort of confidence issues coming into the home stretch, Mike McDaniel was asked about it after the game. And I thought what he said was pretty telling. It's a challenge, but it's also something.

something that, you know, every quarterback really goes through, it's a, you know, it's kind of one of those, you know, necessary things that you have to, that you have to really figure out how you don't let mistakes snowball, and that's one of the reasons, you know, the approach and the way we've gone about things has been so intentional in that regard, because because you can't let past influence the present. And I think that, you know, there could be some portions of that that have to do with, you know, him kind of snowballing in his own mind. But he's such a strong individual that, you know,

the good news is that I'm very confident that he'll be able to get through that it's just that this team needs him. It's a chunky sound bite there. You know, sometimes, like, Daniel feels like you're driving across the country with someone and he's riding shotgun and you realize he just talked for six straight minutes and you're just focused on the road. But I am that person, though. But that sound like that was concerning, though.

Like, I think he was kind of saying like, yeah, I am a little concerned. That was a question about Tua's confidence specifically. Well, I mean, remember, you know, Tua, first. of all, on the, on the muster throw, he said that he might have called, he was wondering if he called the wrong play, which is, you know, that's a concerning thing in December. I don't know for a quarterback, if that just stuff happens here and there, I would imagine it does and you work your way out of it. But this is a guy that, like, that story came out midseason where he was asking himself a year ago, do I suck at this? Like, I mean, I think there is maybe not

a steel confidence there with him. And secondly, you look at this offense and the way he's been helped by Tyree Kill and Jell and Wilde. Just like pointed the cat stuff where it's like, If he had two pedestrian wideouts, you're getting the two of from other years. And so I do think his game's been elevated by that. And teams have figured him out to some degree. I think there's a competence thing going on. And like Mike McDaniel sounds a little down there. They've got the Patriots on the road.

And then they've got the Jets who have Mike Whiteback in the finale. So their path to the playoffs, which seemed assured, is in hot water right now. Right. They've lost four straight. They're still in good position. You win those two games. You get in. even if you split those games, you have a decent chance,

but there's a whole mess of things going on. And the fact that the broadcast talked so much about, like, you had to rebuild to his confidence. Like, I love the honesty. And I love, like, these guys being open and vulnerable. But sometimes you almost don't want, you want your quarterback to have its blind confidence. And Tua was also, you know, quoted earlier this year in some reports that,

like, after that concussion, like, he had talked to his family about, his future as a as a pro and it's just it's a lot everything feels like on the precipice for this team playoffs future of this team we don't need to get into all that now quickly on the the packers they're at seven and eight everything that needed to happen for them this weekend did happen the lions lost the seahawks lost the commanders lost even the giants who in theory could I guess be in that mix of falling out of the playoffs lost. The Packers have a good chance to make it to the playoffs if they win their final two games,

which will not be easy against Minnesota and Detroit. There's a real chance mark here. Detroit, Green Bay is the final game of the year on Sunday night football. Although about four things need to happen for that to happen, and that would include the commanders and the Seahawks losing in week 17. That would set up a win-in-in, like, playoff game between the Lions and the Packers. I'm willing to accept at this point that the Green Bay Packers are probably going to the playoffs. And some poor division winning team, well, I guess it would probably be, I don't know,

it's going to be some poor division winning team is going to have to deal with Aaron Rogers who's becoming increasingly. Minnesota, San Francisco. I know. I just think that's sort of a hot mess for whoever us to confront Green Bay in January out of nowhere. We'll talk about it during the week. I'm not totally buying that they're going to pull this off. But I got to admit, I think they make it more interesting.

So I enjoyed this result, if only because it makes the AFC race messier and the NFC race messier. Let's go to the other AFC game. Oh, someone locked up the dolphins. Gravedigger. How was your Christmas? It was great. We had a really nice Christmas, Yessica and I, with some family FaceTime calls. But I did lock up the dolphins, so they kind of ruined my Christmas a little bit in the morning.

But enough time to get over it later in the day. I don't get the sense that. I watched this game, Graver. I watched the last bit of, I saw two his last interception. I love Graver. He's a football guy. I don't get the sense that losing this locker that the Christmas Day results were getting him too worked up.

And that's to your credit, Justin. That's a compliment. You're also so far removed from the top slot that the drama around you winning or losing on a weekly basis has been diminished. Yes. I'm five games back of Greg now. I'm in last. Even though I lost this week.

So you didn't lose any ground. You're still in it. Eight to play. You're not in it at all. You know who is in it? Just barely. The Pittsburgh Steelers, let's get to their game. Shotgun snap.

Four-man rush. Fires for the end zone. Touched out. George Yeggins. And the Steelers forge ahead with just 46 seconds left. Pickett to Pickens. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah.

Pickett to Pickens, picket to Pickens. That was WDVE, Bill Hargrove on the call, along with Craig Wolfley. I don't think I've ever read the call letters before. This is, you know, new times here 10 years in. I totally forgot on the Dolphids game, too. George Pickens capped a stirring finish on the 50th anniversary of the Immaculate Reception

in the week that we lost Franco Harris, Kenny Pickett, had a drive that he's going to always be remembered for. I kind of hope he has a great career with the Steelers just so that we can look back, Mark, on this one as like the moment it all took off and they knew that Pickett was their guy. Yeah, it's a second fourth quarter comeback

of his rookie season. And, I mean, this was, I mean, we forget, because it seems like a million years ago, but that Saturday cluster of games that was so impacted by weather, that was absolutely true in this one, too. I thought it was just absolutely frigid out there. And both offenses were pretty much asleep at the wheel for large chunks of times.

So see Pickett to go do that at the end was commendable. I think that if you're, the way that they got to that 13 to 10 result was a Raiders offense that the things that have worked for them completely dried up. I mean, you have Devante Adams 15 yards on the day. Josh Jacobs held a 44. It's the first time he had 100, under 100 total yards from scrimmage in seven weeks. That's sort of been the key to their offense in general. and you have Derek Carr completely melting down when it mattered most.

He was one for nine with 34 yards and an interception of passes of 10 plus air yards. So they had really very little vertical attack to speak of in the Raiders, which I thought were a fraudulent team, although they were getting a little spicy in a big spot against the Steelers team. They really should have viewed themselves as a better than Pittsburgh in general. I don't know if they are. I think the Steelers are going to end up with a winning record. They're going to do it.

They're going to beat Baltimore and Cleveland. and this whole Tomlin first losing record business is not going to happen. It would be funny if they went 8-8 and 1 again, like they get a tie in one of these two games and do that back-to-back years. The Steelers are not out of the playoff mix yet at 7 and 8, but unlike a lot of AFC teams that are 7 and 8, the Patriots, for instance, the Steelers are buried in tiebreakers.

They're still only 11th in the conference. Their percentage according to 4.5. 538 to make the playoffs only went up from 1% entering the week to 3% coming out of the week. And it's because they're 2 and 7 or now they're 3 and 7 in the conference. And they basically lose every single tiebreaker there is. And if the dolphins or Chargers, if the dolphins win another game, basically, they're out or they each win one more game. So they still almost certainly aren't going to make the playoffs. But I think you can remember this game if you're a Steelers fan in the end of this season is something encouraging.

Hayward was awesome. You mentioned the defense was dominant. The Raiders last nine drives after they had the touchdown drive to start the game. They had a total of seven first downs in car through three interceptions. In the second half of this game, Mark, the Raiders had 50 yards in three first downs. So you're right, like, even though Pickett got his chance to do it, and he did make good, it really was a good drive, and he played a good fourth quarter. They had three points entry in the fourth quarter, and they scored 10 in the fourth quarter. And the weather was absolutely a huge factor. It still is something that Pickett in the big moments, made some big throws. He had one on the sideline. The touchdown was a rip, certainly. He made good decisions. And Carr just didn't, man. That last interception, like the guy's open.

And you mentioned Jared Goff struggling in the cold the other day. Derek Carr's numbers in weather under 40 degrees is, like, is outrageously bad. And this was the story of the Raiders season. And these late season results, I think, have impact on what's going to happen moving forward. And I just don't think the Raiders are going to have Derek Carr next year. I completely agree with you. I think this is the kind of thing where, and if you go listen, you can find this on Twitter pretty easily,

Josh Jacobs, what he had to say about essentially the entire offense, the plan, what's told to them before the games and what the results are, seems so dejected and down. I doubt that Josh Jacobs is back. I don't think Derek Carr is back. Well, I'm saying, you know, they could offer him money and no one else does him. Maybe he changed his team. Maybe a tag for him.

Sure. But I just, I listened to him speak and he just seemed, and of course, you know, came after loss, but extremely dejected. And I'm with you. I don't know how you can really roll out the concept of Josh McDaniels and Derek Carr next season. When it's as easy to get out of his deal as it is, depending on what comes their way. Like if it's a Tom Brady situation, check you later, Derek Carr. but if there's nothing available, then they run it back, perhaps.

Yeah, they could probably get a good pick for Carr, I think. But I do think this has probably been Carr's worst season since the first season after his broken leg where he started, he kind of struggled when he first came back. And then since then it had been a slow build, and he's been struggling. And I loved for the Steelers to all come to the stadium wearing the 32 jersey, and they have the emotion

halftime celebration. It just felt like the most Steelers thing ever. This is why you knew. You knew, Mark, that, like, the, you've watched enough Steelers over the years, that the Steelers, even though this is a weird Steelers season, we're going to create something magical. And on, like I said, on the 50th anniversary of that game, they scored 10 points in the fourth quarter to win 1310.

50 years ago, they scored 10 points in the fourth quarter to win 13 to 7. Like, on a day with absolutely not. no offense. You locked it up. That was smart of you. I felt it was one of the rare times where like I switched my lock and I just felt like, wait a minute, this is a home run because there's so much weight on this franchise and not a negative weight just a pat like a total absolute passion to go win this game after what happened with Franco Harris. And I was gutting it out. I mean, it was just, you know, it was tight. But somehow you just believe in Tomlin and the Steelers in situations like this. And again, I think they beat Baltimore, who is a

compromise team right now, and they will beat Cleveland, and they'll end up nine and eight, and we'll see what happens from there. This is an absolute Steelers-esque end of the season. Absolutely. And they're young guys stepping out. Like Najee Harris having the big game, he had 105 yards from scrimmage was the key guy pick-ins. Friermuth ended up having to get the, they have to feel about as good ending the season as any team that there really has no shot to make the playoffs just because of their young players. And anyone that jumped in with the rainmaker by this weekend is, By the way, this weekend is feeling good, too.

We're raiding down money on Christmas Eve. It was close. Some might say, why didn't I lock up the Steelers if I was going to go Rainmaker with a two and a half point favorite? But you know what? They won by three. So it rained just enough. In your own way, you're very much a Santa-esque figure

to the people that followed your advice on this one. Well, I know Dan would have gotten on me eventually for a losing streak here. So I think the Rainmaker, I had lost track of what my record is. It's like six and three, something like that for this season. We inflate it because we don't know either. Yeah, nobody knows. Let's take a quick break and we'll get to the other two games.

All right, we're back. Let's head out to State Farm Stadium in Phoenix. One yard field goal. The kick air board. My suck up is it good? It's good. It's good. It's, it's good.

And the Bucks beat the Arizona Cardinals in overtime. Buccaneers beat Arizona. N-O-T. Tom Brady, engineers an overtime drive that gets in the run. range of riot suckup who just made his fourth field goal of the game and the buccaneers win 19 to 16 how about them bucketaires oh jean deckerhoff even jean didn't give like a full-throated this is a miracle victory on christmas he knew this was a a weird game a 19 to 16 overtime victory for the Bucks.

That was on W-F-U-S. Dave Moore also involved. And they're making people work extra on Christmas mark. They're playing extra football. Tariko's there. Collinsworth is there. And the Bucks are just replaying the same game that they play all season,

making a 10-point comeback in the fourth quarter to narrowly beat one of the worst teams in the league. They've done this exactly three times now, but get the victory. Yeah, I don't know if it's the plan, but they are following the blueprint over and over. And it was like Tom Brady, you know, a turnover machine completely asleep at the wheel with an offense that, you know, lost another Josh Wells, they lost another tackle. He was already in there for Donovan Smith. So they are a compromise. I think that affected what they even thought they could

do on offense. It turned into like just a get rid of the ball kind of game for Brady. totally unproductive until that overtime drive I think hits six straight throws and you get another one of these sort of Brady-esque patented last minute victories I do feel like this season and maybe you know it's just a feeling but so many bad games have gone into overtime not good games going into overtime where that you want that but like I texted you like late in the night you and Dan and gravedigger thinking are you seriously taking this into more time this game which I actually watched I might have been one of the 12 Americans that watch this game and uh it was an unrewarding uh stew late in the evening uh i have to admit i did catch up on this game after the fact and yeah it was a lot of bad football that's what tom brady said

earlier in the year when he watches football around the league a lot of bad ball and most of this weekend was about the weather and there have been a lot of fun good teams i think not in the primetime games but we keep getting these teams like the bucks and the cardinals as repeat visitors And we've just seen this Bucks game before. And it's kind of like they keep doing the same thing. They have these sequels to like what was not a great movie in the first place, which was Bucks Rams. I think that's really where this started where they were absolutely terrible.

And at the very end, they go hurry up and Brady wins the game after getting like 17 chances to win it. And now they're having like the sequels. And they're not like they're getting a little worse each time. There was the Saints one. That was a crazy comeback, two touchdowns at the very end. And then this one, where it was against, I believe, the worst team in the league. And it just makes you wonder, why do they have to wait until the very end to go hurry up? They're such a better team when they go hurry up.

Brady had his best two throws of the day in overtime that you mentioned. Two really nice throws, one to gauge and one to Mike Evans, both outside throws. But the rest of the game, like he was off target. it. He missed throws. They were out of sync on third and short. At one point, they tried to run the ball three straight times on second and one and could not get a yard. And that's like what this season has felt like is just like looking at Todd Bulls being like on the sideline dumbfounded, being like, man, I can't believe we can't get a yard. What's going on? But they never can get a yard. Yeah. It's like, I mean, if these are sequels, they're not exactly pack them in at the mall

fair, but it does kind of leave me a bit mystified with this whole journey with the Bucks because the whole calling card coming in, the reason that it would be good to get Bruce Ariens out of the mix. And again, I think we've said it all year. I think there's something missing without Bruce Ariens playing his old role. But it was meant to be a positive because Tom Brady and Byron Lefich could mine meld on a micro level during games and as the, you know, forming the game plan. And they look more lost than ever. And they haven't adjusted the way out of it. Like even from drive to drive, it seems like all they're able to do is go out and process things the same way and produce the same sort of milk toast results.

It's like, where's Brady in this? Like, where's Lefwich in this? And why are they still in these issues post-Christmas? I find it really strange for that kind of quarterback after what we know about Brady. Well, because I think it's everyone. It's such a team sport. I mean, Mike Evans had one catch for five yards

until the very end of this game. He had six targets. He ends up making a catch or two of it. It's like they have a million different problems. And Brady's one of them. Like the two intercepts. He's not used to throwing interceptions. and he threw two in this game both were on him one he just kind of threw up right because he

was about to get hit and then the other one he was like really late on an open receiver and that got picked off by marco wilson and that was like totally on brady and we sound so negative they did win the game they set up uh you know a win-in-in scenario for themselves next week against the panthers the the bucks clinched the nfc south with with the win next week. But if they lose that game, the Panthers have control going into week 18. And my feeling watching this mark was, I have given up. I'm sure everyone else has, too, in terms of them, like, having the light switch on.

But I kind of feel like they're a little bit like the Patriots and that they just are asking to be put out of their misery. And, you know, spoiler alert, I'm picking the Panthers this week. I don't know if the Panthers can close it out and win too straight because the Bucks will still have a chance to win the division, even. Even if they lose in week 17, if the Bucks, if the Panthers then blow it in week 18 and the Bucks win, they're all division games. So like the Panthers do not clinch the division by winning this next game. But this feels like a team that's not having fun and needs to be put out of their misery.

Quickly, I'm just going to throw to a Tom Brady sound because I think the way he sounded after the game sums up what I'm talking to. Defense really stepped up. This was a great way to, you know, down 10 in the fourth quarter on the road. It's great to find a way to win. What's going on here? okay? I don't know. I listened to this. He sounded so old. He does not sound enthused. I will note that the Panthers, when they played the Bucks the first time, more towards the middle of the season, did run for 173 yards. I think this Panthers team, when they get weird and when the ground game

is working as it has and when it's exploded a couple weeks, like you could compromise the Bucks because I just don't see them really able to put up more than 16, 70 points, and the Panthers defense has been solid for the past month. Yeah, we'll talk about that. later in the week. And you're right. The Bucks run defense isn't quite the same shot. You know, credit to your guy, Trace McSorley. He fought.

He almost got it done. They were up 10 in the fourth. He had a throw or two. He has a big arm. I was surprised by that, unlike that Hail Mary in a couple of things. J.J. Watt played great. Their defense has been playing hard. But it wasn't enough.

What a painful season for the Cardinals to go through all these different ways to lose painfully in prime time. Kind of like the Raider season. but in a different, even more pathetic way. We can talk bucks later in the week. But finally, let's get to the final game we're going to cover. That was the Christmas afternoon game, Broncos and Rams in L.A. Rams have three takeaways on the day, all of them interceptions.

Can they get a fourth down stop on downs and cement this week's 16 victory? Rip and Hassel, Rams rush four, throw goes to the right side. It's intercept at the 15. Kobe Durantz. Down the side line, 50, 40, 30, all gas, no breaks. Touchdown. Tommy Durants to cement a Christmas Day win for the Los Angeles Rams. I love it.

Oh, we're getting bongos on a Monday morning. I didn't even know that was possible. I do love hearing our friend J.B. Long with KSPN. Good to hear him having fun. And man, this was fun for Rams fans. and Rams announcers. Kobe Durant there, yeah, with the 85-yard interception. He had two interceptions on the day of the three that Russell Wilson threw.

It was crazy. It was 51 to 14 Rams. It was like 31 to 6 early in the second quarter. This thing was absolutely insane. And I couldn't have been the only one, Mark, that watched this and thought, oh, man, I don't know if they're going to wait to the end of the season to fire. Nathaniel Hackett now, and as we're taping, Justin, we got some breaking news here. Let's hit it.

Yeah, the Nathaniel Hackett era is over. The Broncos announced their coach has been fired after only 15 games. Sad way to go out. And we can talk this game a little bit in a minute, give the Rams some f***es. Oh, that was banned. We're not giving any flowers. Beep that out, Justin. But let's talk Hackett.

It's over for Hackett. That's the bigger news now. Yeah, it was inevitable. And I think this is the kind of late season game where, you know, any coach in his position, this is sort of the, everyone gets it, the exclamation point, floor falls out. Russell Wilson, who you came in to develop, I mean, kind of everything that Hackett, who, you know, understandably seems like an engaging personality and like a likable dude. There's no, it's not really like a Mike Zimmer burning out because of your personality situation.

here. It's just that what was your calling card? I'm going to come in and flip the switch on Russell Wilson, the most exciting quarterback hire of the entire offseason and Denver's sort of hope and pride for the future, looking like the worst quarterback in the league, looking as lost as ever, which has been consistent all year long. There were those reports that he was calling out Seahawks, you know, audibles at the line. It just seems like he's never really understood what's going on in this offense. That extends to everyone else. And then the defense, which you've wasted entire year on, absolutely, like, crumbled yesterday. And I think you're seeing a lot of, like, flare-ups on the sideline, a lot of lack of accountability, in-house issues.

There were all the actual game situation issues early in the year. And it's like Hackett seems completely underwater and in control of none of it. So what as a head coach are you offering at that point? I think there's a bit of a heater principle for some of these play callers. Like, you're kind of meant to stay at the play call level. head coach is for a different type of personality and different type of, I guess, you know, ability to control a varied group of individuals

and the Broncos have seemed out of control since the word go. Yeah, it gives the team a chance to get a head start and the rest of the league, in theory, depending on who they wanted to hire, if they wanted to go non-NFL, you know, they could start that process right now. It's a little more complicated

if you're just trying to hire NFL assistance. they did announce George Payton, the GM will remain with the team and lead the coaching search along with ownership. There was, yeah, the owner George Penner had that. And yeah, when you lose like that, it felt like the defense led by their coordinator, Agero Eriverro. Graver, check for me if we know who the interim coach is going to be while we're recording. This is all happening, but I'll continue on it.

It felt like this was the game where like both sides. just kind of gave up and Sean McVeigh who had Evereaux on his staff for a long time with the Rams. He was a defensive assistant with the Rams forever. It's like he somehow knew exactly what to do and it's putting him out of their misery

and yeah this was a Christmas game where one member related to the Walmart clan dynasty Stan Cronkey who married into it who's the owner of the Rams was going against another couple members of the Walmart money, and apparently they were seen, like, hugging, you know, before the game or saying hi, they're related through cousins and all this stuff.

And I think when you lose like that on what's probably one of the most watched games of the year, you lose to a 410 team 51 to 14, the worst offense in the league like that. I don't care who you are, how new you are to the league. That had to be so embarrassing that they were just like, figuring out what the statement was going to be this morning, like, during that game and just that it was over for Hackett. Oh, it's sad. What a touching tale, like, you know, even the losing billionaire ownership team still floating away in their, like, cream-colored Porsches before deciding to fire the coaching

staff. I mean, I would say this. It is, it's a tough, it's a tough business. It is, they get paid a lot, but it is a tough business. How do you, like, honest question, because I think, like, this didn't cut out the cancer for Denver at all. The cancer is the quarterback and the quarterback contract. Like, I really am interested to see which coach thinks they can come in and fix this. They're saddled with this. And they're going to have to have immense belief that the fact that all of the, what we've seen about Russell Wilson has nothing to do with him actually just

becoming a bad quarterback, that it's totally fixable. I don't think, I think you're, you're looking at a really tough situation. No one's going to, no one's going to think that, that it's all on Hackett. This is the move sort of they had to make. I'm with you. We'll talk about it in the coming weeks. that everyone's saying that you have to keep Russell Wilson, that he has all this guaranteed money,

that it's going to crush your cap. Mark is shaking his head, and I saw him with a really well-worded tweet on Christmas night saying that he doesn't need that. He doesn't need anyone convincing themselves that's going to work with Russell Wilson. And I'm with you. I don't think they necessarily have to do it.

I think there is an argument for taking all the same. salary cap pain now. You could actually make them a post-June first cut and it would only add $17 million to get rid of them on next year's cap. And I think like taking your medicine, if you're convinced the dude can't play, is actually the better move. And Sunday's game was maybe the worst he's played all year. The interceptions were just, were just gathsly. There was one clip someone showed on the all 22 on his third interception where Sutton is on the sideline wide open for a first down. And he's like literally waving at Russell Wilson, waving, waving, waving, waving. And on the broadcast, Tony Romo points out, oh, he could

have run for 20 yards for the first time. But instead, Russell Wilson's like trying to be a hero and he throws it deep. And while the ball's in the air, Cortland Sutton doesn't even look to see what happens. He just starts jumping up and down, upset, and turning to the sideline and walking away from the play as if he's Steph Curry shooting a three and knowing it's going to go in, except in this case it was Russell Wilson and Cortland Sutton knew it was going to be an interception, I guess. And just like walked off the field and was so mad and it was an interception. Yeah, I think that's like to your point about my point, about your point, about not sticking with Russell Wilson is like, there is a human element to this. And I think it gets

forgotten in all the metrics and all this business that like this locker room is totally lost. And they're totally lost because they don't like Russell Wilson. I don't think at all. And when you're not good and you're unliked like you've got big problems. They don't like how bad he is more than anything. Well, that's, that's, it all's all mixed together, but you don't get a feeling like, you know what, we're watching this guy that we've gone to war with that we love, like, fading. It's like, this was your first experience with him. He's been a mess the entire time. And like, I am 100% of belief that you could, it's not, you can't money ball it like baseball, but you, to your point, take your medicine. You deal with the money part of it. It's one,

a one year situation. It's not that different in a different universe had they traded for like Gino Smith instead, who would have cost a lot less on a one-year situation. And you get through it, you might just get better results with a locker room that is not from the word go with a new loss, with a new coach, ready to stage insurrection. The only problem with it is they're keeping George Payton who made this trade. And so you just get into like, is he, would he be willing to admit that mistake? Usually a move like that. And it's hard to even say usually because there's almost no precedent. This is on track to be, you know, one of the worst. trades in NFL history. It certainly has been now. Now their draft pick, by the way, gets even

worse. So Seahawks fans were loving this Rams victory. I saw a couple on Twitter that, you know, the Seahawks are falling apart, but at least they're enjoying Russell Wilson blowing this pick. I mean, yeah, it was tough. It's why back in week 10 or 11 when the Broncos were only scoring 7, 10 points in a game and people were like, oh, the Broncos have hit bottom. And we've done this job long enough that it's like when there's seven or eight weeks left with these bad teams, Like, no, there's some, you can hit a lot more bottoms. And this was truly bottom because the coach got fired. They gave up a 50 burger on Christmas.

And Russell Wilson got roasted by Patrick from SpongeBob. And so what's that? Oh, there's Russ Wilson. Oh, no. Oh. That's called on an introsception. It was. It's a Bobby Wagner.

Yeah, that's not what he was. Wanted to cook. Oh, God. Did you say interception? He said, that's what they call it, intraception. I mean, he had a good line there, too. That's not what Russ wanted to cook. And even mentioned that Wagner was his teammates.

I did flip over to the Nickelodeon broadcast for a little, and they were having fun over there. I think that was probably the most appropriate way to watch this game. More fun than Broncos fans. I would say, like, you know, where we were seven weeks ago about mentioned where we were at the Broncos, Sean McVeigh was in a dark place. Baker Mayfield was being talked about like Russell Wilson.

It's kind of crazy what can happen to you in just a couple weeks because I think if nothing else, Baker Mayfield proved like in a Sean McVe system, if he's used right, he can play and he's totally a viable, very leading, almost plugged in candidate to be their number two quarterback next season. I think they want that. And McVeigh, who was, you know, we're a question if he's going to even come back and coach. I don't know. I mean, who knows what will happen with that situation. But the last couple of weeks have been a very very.

different vibe around a Rams team that it got real ugly there. Absolutely. I'm glad you pointed that out because even though I'm saying like there's a long time left in the season, you can always hit bottom. You could have said that about the Rams too, but they are going to feel better about themselves the way they're ending this season. They've had their best couple of games now in a three-week span. They're competitive.

Kim Acres is running the ball really, really well. Had 147 yards from scrimmage. three touchdowns, just playing with a lot of juice. McVeigh is showing that he can be that coach again, maybe give himself some confidence. Baker finishes 24 for 28 for 2.30 and two touchdowns. And yeah, most of them, I think 18 of those throws were five yards or less. But he had a nice touchdown versus the Blitz.

He was very controlled. Tony Romo said how like under McVeigh he's using to use his eyes a little better in terms of not being as predetermined. some get to like his third read, he just looked like a very competent quarterback. To me, this was way more encouraging even than that Raiders' comeback win. And like other guys are stepping up for the Rams like Wagner's a leader and Hoyt and just things you can just feel better about putting a 50 burger on feels good no matter what your record is. Yeah, they didn't waste their final four or five games, which you see teams do. Nothing changes. You don't grow. Like they've used it

to develop younger players. Find a backup that they can trust. And I think you're right. Give Sean McVeigh a sense going into the offseason. Like, I haven't lost my fastball here. And give their fans something. All my daughter I'd asked for for Christmas was a Rams win. And I know that place wasn't like super rocking yesterday. I texted our friend Jason Kleinman, who was there with his family.

Perfect. Perfect Sunday for the Kleinman. You go see a 50 burger. Probably it's such a blowout. You can leave early. He told me he was right behind the Broncos. side line. So he texted me about the fight that was happening before I even heard about it on the broadcast. He was like, they're arguing on the Bronco sideline. Someone just pushed Brett

Rippin. And he was right. That was an offensive lineman and Brett Rippin the backup quarterback. So he gets to enjoy that victory. J.B. Long, our friend gets to enjoy it. And then, you know, the Kleinman's come home and they celebrate Hanukkah another night, you know, at night. Perfect day. Well, just one bull's eye after the next for the Kleinman family. All right, this is our closest thing to a bullseye here, Mark, I think we did it. What did I call it at the beginning of the show? The cold and dark podcast, the dark and cold podcast instead of the light. That sounds bad, though.

I had fun. I enjoyed it. You know what? I enjoyed, I think the broadcasters yesterday tried to have as much fun as they could, including Jim Nance. I gave Jim Nance some credit for being as Jim Nancy as possible to start that Rams Broncos game. Russell Wilson and the Broncos about to take the field in Los Angeles to take on Baker Mayfield and the Rams and Santa's going to find out which quarterback has been naughty or nice on CBS.

It never gets old. I think he used the same line in 1996 and it probably hit the same way. I don't know why. When I heard that, it really made me laugh. gotta find out who's been naughty or nice i guess uh baker's been nice and russell wilson has been naughty all right for mark uh this was a pleasure for justin graver uh i'll be back we're doing a monday night recap tonight with jordan rodrigue and we'll be back on tuesday with a special guest and so uh the train keeps moving on uh but until then heed the call

You know, This is an IHeart podcast.