NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Closer Look at Playoff Picture & PFW President Bob Glauber

Episode Date: December 12, 2018

In a room filled with heroes – Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Marc Sessler and Chris Wesseling – react to the latest NFL news, including – the Vikings and OC John DeFilippo parting ways (3:50), the Raiders move on from GM Reggie McKenzie after seven seasons (9:30), will the Eagles shutdown Carson Wentz (13:45), Lamar Jackson is officially anointed as Baltimore’s starter (15:40) and what’s Big Ben’s status (18:20)? The heroes then navigate the choppy tides of the NFL’s playoff picture (23:30) – what’s going on in the AFC North (24:30), will Aaron Rodgers splendor shine bright enough to illuminate a post season path (27:45) and can the GGGMMEEENNNN *cough* Giants *clears throat* take control of the NFC East (33:50)? After, is Philip Rivers the MVP favorite if he and the Chargers overcome Mahomes’ Chiefs on TNF (39:30)? Lastly, will the gracious Prez of the Pro Football Writers of America, Bob Glauber, bestow an MVP vote on the heroes (50:30)?Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Find a store near you. That's nautica.com code football. Around the NFL podcast is getting the band back together. Oh, ho! Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis, and I'm joined in a room filled with heroes, Mark Zessler, Chris Wesleying, and Greg Rosenthal. What is up, boys? Hey, Dan. What band? What band? Is that Delaware? Did he be band back together for the 80th time in four weeks?

I know. When are we not together? For those that may be new to the show, Greg, during his high school days in New England, formed a Prague. Western Massachusetts. Alternative rock band. Sound out Western Mass. Acid rock, I would call it. Emo, a hybrid of some kind. Greg played, he tickled the Ivories, I believe, and did Vox.

And the band was called Delaware. I don't remember you tickling the Ivory. None of this is true, except like we were, yeah, some 14-year-olds, and I. I sang in a band. I would say it was more they might be giants-esque. I mean, we got a little bit of your Annie Lennox sample the other day.

They might be Giants slash Dead Milkman. How long were people hanging around from singing in this? Yeah, I wasn't trying to croon with those songs. It was more a chant. More like talking. Okay. Can we hear some Greg vocals?

No, let's please never. I don't want to do that to you guys again. What is the birdhouse in my soul? Is that the name of the album? I like Be Giant. That was the first concert I ever went to. They might be Giants. I'm with Greg on that one.

Smith College. Frank Black opened. They played at the spring. Good ratio at Smith College, by the way. What is that a all? All women's school. Where? Right up your alley there, Mark, Sessalon.

They're like dotted throughout Massachusetts, these all women schools. Northampton. Western Mass is like the king of all women schools. They might be Giants played North Eastern Springfest in 2002. I sat it out. Sounds like I should regret it. They were fun. I think they were of the moment.

They were of the moment by, yeah, by O2 even that might have been past that moment. The only song I even know from them is the Malcolm in the middle theme, which I did not find enjoyable as a song. But I'm sure they have some bangers. Yeah, I wouldn't say that's like the perfect snapshot of their catalog. All right, here we go. It's the Wednesday show. A lot to get to.

Some big news. A general manager got axed. A offensive coordinator was let go. See, I'm trying to use different words than fired. out of respect. But then axed is kind of cruel as well. Axe sounds worse. Because it's basically execution is the connection there.

It could be. Or it could like that Jaguars punter who axed himself in the shin. Yeah. Who was the punter? Pop quiz. Someone Hanson, I believe. Yeah, I think it was Hansen. I think that sounds right.

And we have some quarterback news before we get to that. Also coming up, I should say, we're going to take a closer look at the playoff pick. sure and preview Thursday night football and then and perhaps most importantly we need to talk to the president of the pro football writers association who just happens so happens to be Bob Glover longtime columnist for Newsday in New York so we'll talk to him at the end of the show and make a formal pitch we'll just leave it at that for now let us get to the news How could it happen?

Where the fuck are they are? They got to keep the other end of the gold line safe. Oh, my God. Jesus Christ. You knew they were going to do it. Are you shitting me? The Temposi House. What was that?

That was a fan video of the Hail Mary? That was like an 80-year-old grandfather in some New England, you know, den, living room area reacting to the Miami Miracle. That was Alec Baldwin and outside Providence. Is that what it sounded like in your house growing up, Erica? No. Not at all. No, very civilized and, you know, we don't have accents. There you go.

Let's start with the decision by the Minnesota Vikings to part ways with offensive coordinator John D. Philippo. This happens 13 games into DeFilippo's first season. as the OC spent last year and won a ring with the Eagles. And, um, Mark, the idea of D. Filippa was great when the hiring and it seemed, oh, Kirk Cousins is in town. We get this guy that's a young hot shot from the Super Bowl champ staff. And it just never worked. And Mike Zimmer makes the decision to move on and, and quite frankly, a stunning decision.

Yeah, I wonder if age had something to do with it coming off of the Sean McVe situation because As everyone kind of thought of Frank Reich is a second or third or fourth or fifth type of candidate, and you learned months later that Frank Wright had a lot to do and maybe was a driving force in Philly's, you know, surge down the stretch last year in their creativity and their approach to analytics, their willingness to fit that in. And the Eagles are a bit of dead weight, and D. Filippo's out of a job. I still feel that one of the biggest issues for any offensive coordinator coming into Minnesota, I mean, beyond for D. Filippo getting along with the head coach, was a offensive line that was hamstrung from the start

and currently ranks 31st in pass protection. And that plays out. I mean, Kirk Cousins, as you guys have said, has not been the primary issue. He also has had some bad games. And whether or not you like it, a quarterback is tied to the results of a team. But good luck thriving if you're Kirk Cousins behind that line.

He's been punished far too often. And the record probably reflects some of their major weaknesses. Before Tony Sparano passed away, he and Di Filippa worked closely together, and they were excited for this season. Spirano, one of the best O-line coaches and run-game coordinators in the league. He was behind last year's team in which Latavius Murray and Jared McKinnon were one of the best backfield duos in the league, and the offensive line really blocked well for Case Keenham. And this year it's been totally different.

Yeah, that's been, I think, their number one problem, and that's led to the running game problems. And I think Kirk Cousins overcame some of the line issues, and now he's gotten into some bad habits where I don't think, no matter how much you like Kirk Cousins, you can't argue that he played well on Monday night, even taking away the offensive line issues. I can think of three or four, five different plays where protection was not a problem at all, and he was late to see receivers.

He made some indecisive throws. But the firing's timing is shocking to me, because three weeks left in the season, you're in the number six spot. You just don't see that much. Yeah, we saw it with the Ravens, you know, before they won their Super Bowl after they were blown out in a game, and Jim Caldwell ended up.

taken over and they won the Super Bowl. So who knows. Kevin Stefansky, who's been there and is the quarterback's coach, is a guy I think that's pretty highly thought of around the league and inside of that building. And some people thought he should have gotten that job a year ago. And it makes you wonder if DiPhilippo and Zimmer were ever totally on the same page. Just because reading between the lines and also hearing some of the reports, Zimmer was talking publicly that he wasn't really a fan of some of the DiPhilippo philosophies in press

conferences and judging by some of the reports out there and certainly even some of the play by play and color guys who meet with Zimmer, I think he was talking a little trash about just not getting on the same page with Di Filippo behind the scenes too. So maybe it's just a philosophical difference, but it's a dramatic decision to fire a guy with three weeks left in the season. You are doing it consciously knowing that it is going to hurt this guy's job prospects, John D. Filippo, who's going to be meeting for head coaching jobs you would presume. If he fired him in October, it hurt his head coached prospects too.

Absolutely. It's just the timing of it's interesting. And it almost, I don't, it's maybe too much to say it feels personal. But I think if you have a strong relationship with a guy, you're not going to fire him with three weeks left right as he's about to try to get a job. I think context is so important, though. You have to understand what was going on with the Vikings entering the season, the expectations, all that money they gave Kirk Cousins to be the final piece of this offense.

They bring in D. Filippo to be this guy. that will connect with cousins and take their offense to an even higher level than it was with Case Keenham. And Mike Zimmer is like, I got to save this thing. This is a disaster for us that we were this dominant NFC superpower last year. And now we're clawing to go 500 or close to it to try to make a playoffs. But I saw it as an act of a desperate team. I didn't see it as a personal shot. I'm with you.

And they blocked Stefanski from going with Pat Schumer to the Giants. So that tells me to Greg's point that maybe Zimmer all along. felt like this was the guy he knew. He was already on his staff and they wanted to elevate. But maybe the DiPhilippo, who was a hot name coming out of the Super Bowl, was hoisted on him. There's whispers of that. And then you can't make that.

You can't just necessarily magic wand that relationship. It may not work. And it didn't work. But I don't have a problem with them making a change because their offense needed a change. And we've seen it in Cleveland. We've seen in other places even this season where when you make that shift, things starting to change. And it's like, why not?

It couldn't get worse. let's move on another dismissal this one in Oakland the Raiders let go of Reggie McKenzie after seven years as the general manager he had a meeting with Team Scouts Monday and informed the group that he was let go according to Rap Sheet and Tom Pelliserro and this was a shaky setup from the moment John Gruden arrived and I think a lot of people thought the moment John Gruden arrived that Reggie McKenzie, for all intents and purposes,

was already out his general manager, at least in the capacity that he was hired for. So this feels almost inevitable this move. Exactly. I think everybody saw the writing on the wall as soon as John Gruden got all the power. And then we heard reports in the last six months that basically McKenzie had already been kind of sent to a corner of the room

while Gruden's scouts and Gruden's executives took over everything. He got Rosemond. And if you look at McKenzie's drafts, I think outside. side of the 2014 draft, which brought Derek Carr and Khalil Mack, they've been among the worst drafts in football. He was a punching bag on this podcast with you being in the Mike Tyson role, Chris Wesleying, back in 13, 14.

You kind of couldn't believe that he was continuing to keep that job. The one defense I would have of McKenzie is that I think he improved the situation. He, I think, inherited, if not the worst, one of the worst situations, any general manager has inherited this century. What Al Davis did to the combination of maybe one of the worst rosters that we've seen with one of the worst salary cap situations we've ever seen was kind of a no-win quickly situation. And he fleshed it all out.

He got them back to the point where they were in the playoffs a few years ago. They're only winning season since 2002, which is amazing. It's almost under the radar how unbelievably terrible they've been for the last 15 or 16 years. And they're in better shape now than when he arrived. I don't know if John Gruden's ever going to be able to say that. I mean, a lot of GMs and other organizations would have been swept out earlier. I mean, that 12 win season bought him a lot of rope because that was sandwiched in between win totals of four, four, three, seven, and six.

It was heading up. It was. And he had that one draft that, I mean, that changes teams. When you have a draft like that and of Derrick Carr, maybe it turned into something a little more than we feel of them today and you kept the other pieces. You've got a franchise in place. But now it's going to be Gruden making. the draft picks. And if you look at Gruden's drafts back when he was, forget the Oakland years,

because that was largely the Davis family, I would imagine, if not him alone. But if you look at him in Tampa, he ate up their first two drafts by being traded to Tampa for two first and a second. So that's not on him. They made that choice. But he drafted Michael Clayton, who essentially had one relevant season as a wide receiver. He drafted... Michael Clayton ruined a lot of my fantasy team. There you go. He drafted Gaines Adams, who played in a first round, I played 40-second games as a pro. a second round guard who played 31 games, a third rounder, who I remember playing for Cleveland for a couple games,

Sabby Piscitelli. And the only pick that I really think he nailed was Akeeb to leave in 2008 when they had like the eighth pick in the draft and it was a home run type dude. And almost didn't really come through for the bucks. And that draft included Dexter Jackson, a second rounder who played seven games. I mean, they're a teased dot.

So you're handing over all of this power to who? Maybe Bruce Allen. I do wonder if Bruce Allen who's with the Redskins break out. should make you come over and join his old pal, Johnny. Let's talk some quarterbacks. One more thought on that, actually. So they're going to replace McKenzie, I assume, even if Gruden is the guy. But it'd be like a guy under Gruden essentially.

Is that a job you even want? Like what's the upside? If you're somebody who pines to be an NFL general manager, is that a gig that you want? It's an end of career type job. No, I think it'll be someone that Gruden has some sort of connection with, whether it's through his tree of coaches and is willing to be, you know,

a younger assistant almost to John Gruden. The only thing is if you're in New England, there are all these hidden front officemen under Belichick who have been rooted out to other organizations. If you succeed, they figure out who you are. Bad news for the Eagles. Let's talk some quarterbacks. Carson Wentz, who's dealing with back spasms.

Rapsheet reported on Wednesday that Wentz is not expected to play in week 15. It's a big matchup. They're seasons on the line, essentially, against arguably the best team in the NFC in the Rams, and it will most likely be Nick Foles behind center. So, Greg, a season that's just been filled with disappointing for the Eagles, this is just another tough setback. This was supposed to be the Circle, the Wagon's game, keep our season alive,

and now you're not going to have your star quarterback. Yeah, it's interesting because there are one game out of the playoffs, about one half game. So as terrible as this season has been, I think eight wins is going to get you into the playoffs. I don't know if eight wins for them would get them in because the Vikings have the tie and then there's tiebreakers. But if he's not playing this week after finishing off last week's game,

to me, it's almost a sign that, hey, we're going to let you play through this on some level when we have a legitimate chance and believe in our chances. But the Eagles have shown who they are. They're a six and 17. So, I mean, that was my question because it's, He finished last week's game with two great drives. In back spasms, and not to downplay that at any level, that could be awful.

But, like, it's Wednesday. We don't know where he'd be three days from now. Why is he not a game time decision at this point? And you figure that out. Right. In rap sheets saying he might be out for the season, depending on how this week goes. And I don't think you're winning a game in Los Angeles with Nick Falls. Sounds like it.

It may be helps explain some of his accuracy issues, which was if he had any knock coming out of college, it was accuracy. see, I don't think you had seen it too much, maybe a little in his rookie year, but he's missed some throws this year. Overall, I think for the most part, Carson Wentz played quite well coming off at Torne. I don't think he's been a huge issue. The passing of the torch is official in Baltimore. John Harbaugh announced that Lamar Jackson, their first round pick rookie quarterback, who has won three of his first four starts,

will indeed officially replace Joe Flacco as the team's quarterback. Flacco, who is dealing with a hip injury, is healthy, but he's the backup RG3, Rob. He goes back to the inactive list. Wes Lamar Jackson has had a nice schedule so far. So you have to understand the context with his start. But this feels like the right move for a team that's going in the right direction, even with Sunday's tough loss.

I think you said it well. You have to factor in the schedule. He's going to face after the Bucks game this weekend. Probably the five worst run defenses in the NFL. And the Ravens have become the run-dominant team along with the Seahawks in the NFL. I think what sells it for me is that they have an identity now with Lamar Jackson and Gus Edwards and Kenneth Dixon. And with Joe Flacco, they had no identity. Not even for this year, for the last few years, they kept struggling with the run pass ratio under Flacco.

They were very pass-heavy and could never establish a running attack. And now they have an identity that goes with their defense. Yeah, they lead the league in 10-plus play dry. So even though it's not a great offense and the schedule's helped, I also think that John Harbaugh thinks this is his best chance to save his job because Lamar Jackson gives him the best chance to win. It's like he's making the most important decision possible. And the way that they've been able to rally,

I think we could be in a totally different world if Patrick Mahomes doesn't make one of the great throws we've seen of the last few years. And in that world where he doesn't make that play, the Ravens are in first place and everyone's talking about what an unbelievable coaching job this Raven staff is doing. And they've got to see it through. And as far as Joe Flacco goes. I don't think he plays again in Baltimore.

What is his value? If he hits the open market. Like the Jaguar should run to the open market and get it. Yeah. I think he'll get a job. I mean, the Giants could be looking for a quarterback. The Redskins will certainly be looking for a quarterback, you would think. So I would think he's going to have a good chance to be starting next year.

Ben Rathlisberger will be starting on Sunday. A huge game against the Patriots. The Steelers season might be on the line in this game. And Ralthusberger exited midway through Pittsburgh's loss to the Raiders with a rib injury. And then that's when things got murky because he doesn't come out and start the third quarter with the team. He stays out of the game until there's about five minutes left.

and the Steelers had fallen behind. He comes back in. Of course, this is what Big Ben does. He leads him to a touchdown. And then there's questions after the game. Why weren't you on the field sooner? And it was a bit of a mystery. And it was explained as this week has gone along that that old dump in Oakland,

which also, by the way, cost him a game because Chris Boswell couldn't even put his foot down. Chris Boswell, by the way, watch out because Kai four best working out in Pittsburgh as we speak. Guys, Guy. Not only, is their turf terrible, the X-ray machine, at least according to the Steelers, was not good enough to give them an accurate read to let them know that he was okay to go into the game. A rib injury could be scary business.

Let's hear what Ben had to say about it. He didn't have great clarity, to be honest with you. I wasn't able to read the x-ray to our satisfaction. It was probably a dated piece of equipment, what have you. That was Mike Tomlin. So, and just to, if you're scoring at home, Greg, here's a tweet from Mike Shainman, who covers the Raiders for the Mercury News. This, last week there was a skunk running around the locker room in Oakland and in the hallway.

And Matt Schneiderman cataloged it all. Dead animals post game three, two mice in the soda machine. one skunk in the hallway. Two Raiders wins. And a defective X-ray machine and a horrible playing surface. Get out of there. Let's blow the place up.

Make sure it's empty. And then blow it up. It's over. The A's have to play there. It doesn't matter. The A's going to be more irrelevant. That's not true, actually. They have a nice...

Do you make the playoffs? Yeah, they have nice to do this. I apologize. Athletics. But you deserve a new stadium as well. All that foul territory. It raises a point, which... Let a man win a batting title, Wes.

All that foul territory. You speak the truth on this issue. You cannot win a batting title in that. I got to say, though, I hit it 200 feet in foul territory next to first base. And out. It's a put-out. I was once on my way on a road trip back through America where I tried to see as many baseball games as I could.

Weird flex as the kids. I got to say, yeah, it was like 24 years old. Wasting time. One 20 afternoon midday game at Oakland Coliseum with about 7,000 people. people in the crowd. One of the most underrated sporting experiences I've ever had. I could see that. It was a blast. You're the only one rating it. What? No.

No one else is rating. And there's 7,000 people there. I'd say it in the 7,000. I'm just saying it was a great, it was a great, it was a great place. I went to an A's game and get him for about six bucks. Right. I went to, I drove up one more five in the morning to a Raiders Brown's game. And I will say this. Like, it is not a bad fan experience for the fan in the stands. I don't know about my. Right. The 7,000 people that were there were going wild.

And to bring it back to the Raiders, though, it does, this thing that you're bringing up, you know, we're having fun with it. But there is like a real issue coming up. And I thought ESPN had a perfect headline for it yesterday, Paul Gutierrez. Well, he didn't write the headline. Where will the, he might have. He's a double threat.

Where will the Raiders play in 2019? And why isn't anyone freaking out? It's kind of, it is kind of an amazing story, considering the history of the Raiders in Oakland, that there may only be one game left, ever in their franchise history in Oakland, and that no one following the team or with the team knows where they're going to play football next year.

They seem to want to play football in Oakland, but Oakland doesn't necessarily seem to want them. It's a ridiculous thing right now. Yeah. Could they be the San Diego Raiders for a year? It seems like there's a lot on the table. It's like, let's find the only stadium that's in worse shape than our stadium. Go down to old Qualcomm.

I do remember, like, because it was a, I believe it was a Thursday night football game, and we were here, that the last Rams game ever, you weren't, you didn't know if it was the last Rams game ever. And like, that's what this, that's what's going to happen in Oakland. It's like the Raiders fans deserve a lot better than they've been getting. I agree. All right. That's what's happening in the news. Hey, did you know that Lowe's is the new home of Crasman? Now we do.

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Loz is the new home of craftsmen. All right, boys. Let's take a closer look at the playoff picture. So many things. So many things can happen in the last three weeks. But as we get into it, maybe we'll kind of take turns, you know, throwing a team out there and talk about their path or where you see them going, whether people are sleeping on a team or people are not realizing that a team's already dead.

That's what the conversation is about. Let's dig into the playoff picture a little bit. Mark Sessler, you're the first person I just locked eyes on. And it was a gorgeous view, if I would say so myself. Thank you. Get us going. I mean, the fascination for me, because I feel a lot of the NFC is set, and it is personal for me, is what is happening in the AFC North,

a division that I think, you know, three weeks ago, I would have just said it's Pittsburgh's, and they don't look like a team that's about to crumble down the stretch. And now there is very much a possibility that that division could come down to the final week, because you're Pittsburgh and you're 7-5-1, you have a half-game lead over the 7-6 Ravens, but you've got the Patriots and the Saints on the road the week after that, and you close with the Bengals team.

So let's say you basically need to get to nine wins in this division, if you're Pittsburgh, to not get into a last week scenario that could be ugly. You've got to win two of those three. That's a tall order. If you're Baltimore, and I think there's a lot of belief in the Ravens in this place, you're 7 and 6, but you can. could easily, easily be eight and seven heading into, because you go on the road to the Chargers in week 16, heading into a final game with the Cleveland Browns at home. And the Browns play

the Broncos this Saturday night and then play the Bengals. That's two winnable games that would bring them to 7-7-1. What are you saying, Sessler? I mean, is it going to happen? There's a lot of bizarre improbabilities there. But the Pittsburgh schedule plays against them. If they're going to be a team that fails to show up against the Patriots, which they do annually, and then cannot handle a high-powered Saints team the week later. There's a lot of variables here. It makes it very exciting in the final three weeks. Would that be, yeah, it's looking too far ahead.

But, like, is there any chance that's, like, playing for Mike Tomlin's job? If they lost six straight games to lose a season, I don't know. I always feel that Tomlin. It is. Sunday is so important to both teams, because the Patriots are looking to get a buy. the Steelers, if they lose this game, the scenario you're laying out is why, and I'm all in with you,

right down to the Browns playing in week 17, and what else could you ask for, Mark, just even talking about this as a possibility. But if the Steelers take care of business on Sunday, I think this is all hogwash. Well, then it's over. Then they go two and one, because they'll nail the Bengals,

who can trust them. And you go nine, six and one. But it's at home. But it's not that crazy for the Browns to have a playoff meeting. matchup in week 17. It's not crazy.

It's amazing even that they have a meaningful matchup this Saturday night. And you got to win that one, obviously, if you're the Browns. And then I think you can start getting a little carried away, wondering what could happen. I don't think it's a gimmie to go to, I don't think any game for the Browns is necessarily a gimmie, but certainly not a road game against a Denver team that, yeah, they're banged up. But they've been pretty good at home this year. And they're not a pushover by any means. I love it.

I love that we're talking about the Browns flying through. You can tell that Siciliano is all fired up this week. Mark's fired up. Really? You tracking Andrews Siciliano personality? Yeah, he was like he put it out there. He's putting it out on social media the different ways the Browns can make the playoffs. He's just letting me.

How about it, you know, be a professional. You're a broadcaster. You're not supposed to have a rooting allegiance. Wait, so you're saying you don't? This is not about me or anyone in this room. It's about other people that should be held to standard. Yes, you can't have it both ways. If you don't take us seriously, then we get to.

to be fans of teams. All right, Wes, you're up. I look at the Packers, a team which football outsiders gives, I believe, less than a 7% chance to make the playoffs. However, if the following things happen this weekend, the following reasonable things happen, the Packers win. In Chicago. In Chicago.

That's the least reasonable part of this. I agree. That's the big thing. If the Vikings lose to the dolphins Possible Two pretty equal teams right now The Rams beat the Eagles Very possible

The Saints beat the Panthers That's some dolphins love I smelled from Chris Wesley The Jaguars beat the Redskins Very possible If all of those things happen Can I make a point here? The Packers will have a 75% chance to win If they win out

According to 538 Okay They go from, I don't know, 7% to having a realistic possibility. And the rest of their schedule makes it very possible too. I read elsewhere, Wes, that it was 4%. But you're right. And I was looking at their schedule too. And you don't want to get too excited because the Packers have been

underwhelming all season. That could not be more true. But if they beat the Bears, everything else, the Vikings need to lose twice, the Panthers lose once, the Redskins lose once, the Eagles lose once. And the Packers went out. They are in. It's not going to happen.

I don't foresee a six-seed being that dangerous, although you never know if a team can turn their season around in the final three weeks, like the 2012 Ravens, for instance, which if we had a podcast back then, we would have beyond buried when the dolphins dropped them like 45 to 7 in week 14. You never know what could happen. But the Packers have kind of like shown no ability to win three straight games. So that's the trick. I think you guys are right that if they manage to win three. straight games, eight wins with the tie, because you know, you only have seven losses, there's a solid chance the Vikings don't get there. Part of their problem, though, is the Vikings have like a 70% chance, according to all

these analytics site. Because they're in first place, they're in the sixth spot right now, because they have that tie and because their schedules pretty soft. So if they get to eight wins, like they're almost, if they win two out of three of the Vikings, they have a great chance because all these teams have been headed in the wrong direction. It is interesting that the two teams we brought up made high-profile firings that were essentially because of the offensive side of the ball and the Vikings are the third team in that mix.

Greg, what do you got? I'm keeping an eye on our Thursday night football game, which we'll talk about in a little bit, so we don't need to break it down. But the impact that that game could have in terms of the AFC and the chance that the Chargers still have with three weeks left of the season to go ahead and be the number one seed, to go ahead and be great,

to have some home games here at the stubble. hub hub. You want to hear a home crowd, maybe get the one seed. Or maybe it wouldn't happen. And some Ravens or whoever's coming in here would just rage and whatever. Just be weird. Let's get weird NFL. I don't think it's crazy for the Chargers to go to Arrowhead and win that game. I think the Chiefs are the better team, but the Chargers are certainly capable of beating anyone. They're not going to have the tiebreaker over the Chiefs. So they need the Chiefs to lose two games. But the Chiefs are going to Seattle the following week. So if you could beat Kansas City on Thursday night, Kansas City has to go to Seattle, win that game to keep the number one

seed. It is not a crazy scenario for the Chargers to take care of business. And their schedule's not cake either. They have to. They have a very difficult schedule. They have to beat the Ravens on a fun little Sunday night or Saturday night game on NFL Network, I believe. And then I think they finish with the Broncos. So it's not in Denver. In Denver. It's tough. But here we are three weeks left of the season. I don't think that's a crazy scenario. the playoffs go through the stub. Are we calling it the stub? I mean, we just have.

The Patriots are going to get the first seat is what I'm, everything you're here, everyone has a tough schedule. There are two games back. You're right, the Patriots. I can see it now. In theory, yeah, the Patriots route is the Chiefs losing those two games I mentioned, but then the Chargers also Stubbed. Stubbed against Baltimore.

That win over Pittsburgh. And, Dan, I believe you're in this crowd as well. Well, that that's the game they would have dropped and we could have started to wave goodbye to them. They're going to go to the, they've had one playoff game in eight years. This is, this team is not a flawed team the same way as the previous ones.

They have one loss since week three. And I trust them to, I think they can beat the Chiefs. The interesting thing about them is, I think you should lock it up. They have Melvin Gordon back. I don't even trust them, even though, even though I'm a fan and I'm looking, I'm hoping to happen just because of recent history.

But that seven-game wins. Here's a thing, no, West. Here's the thing that, chargers are a dangerous five-seat. If the chargers are going to Houston or Pittsburgh or Baltimore or wherever it is in the first round of the place, they actually have a better road record this year than they do home record. And they don't have – You're buying into this. They don't have much of a home field advantage, the Chargers either way.

So either way, I think they got a shot, but give them the one seed. That would be fun. You're buying in. I am. Sue Bridget has to say. Then she's – Greg is back on the assy. Well, see, she's a computer.

and her map says... Haven't heard from Bridget a lot lately. This feels less drug-induced than some scenarios we've come up with. She's been busy. She's in the garage under locking key. She's, yeah. The people behind the Bridgett 2000

have been trying to mass produce it with all this demand around the holiday season. Our fans trying to buy up Bridges are lonely fans all across the country for their own Bridgett. Google searches for the Bridgett 2000 are definitely going through the roof this time of year. Mark, do you have another one?

I could cook one up. No, no, no. Do you have another one? I thought mine was pretty complex. It was fine. I liked it. It was good. Wes, did you have one?

I have one if you guys don't. Go ahead. Go ahead. You haven't gone yet. You haven't gone yet. All right. This one is, you guys, you know, you're not going to want to hear this. I already know.

When you talk about paths that aren't impossible. This show is too predictable. Yeah, but like if you talk about, if you want to talk about the Packers' path. Exactly. If you want to call what's, what's, what's, Overly predictable. Okay, maybe me bringing back the G-Bun into the playoff conversation. But just listen to it.

Hear me out, because if you're going to hear out the Packers, you should hear out the GMEN. Call for Dan Hansis. You just got hired by Newsday. Here we go. You ready? They got to win out. Just like the Packers, that might be the biggest basketball, because it's a flawed team.

But who are they playing? Home against the Titans. Please. What do you mean, please? They're not better than the Titans? Please. All right. Lock it up.

Titunes. Forget it. on the road against the cults okay that's a tough matchup am i going to say that they have no chance no i'm not going to say that and then home against the cowboys home game against the best team the nfc east not an easy road but not impossible okay then the vikings need to lose three out of their last four okay and they've already lost one so they need to lose two of their last three excuse me so they have to lose dolphins at home lions on the road bears at home. That can happen.

When's the last time the Giants played a team that wasn't incredibly short-handed? I think it goes back to their buy. They're playing very well right now, Chris. No, I'm talking about the opponent. The teams that they've beaten. You can only focus on yourself. Like the Sanchez Redskins, the Chase Daniel Bears,

and Eagles defense missing six of 11 starters, the Buccaneers without Levante, David, and Gerald McCoy, and the 49ers. So are we going to bring up the Giants without Odell Beckham, if we're going to go on this road? Sure, you can have Odell Beckham

against the Sanchez Redskins. They can only play their opponent, Chris. I agree. I'm just saying, let's be realistic about who they are, unlike the New York media, who is not realistic about who this team is. The Packers just need to lose one more game.

Okay, bears on the road, jets on the road, lines at home. The Panthers need to lose two of three. Saints at home, Falcons home, saints away. That can happen. The Eagles need to lose two of three. Rams away, Texas. All these teams are terrible.

The biggest problem is a bad team like the Giants has to win three games against teams that will not be at their undermanned worst. This is the problem with you dismissing them, though, West. None of those teams are dominant teams. A road, a Titan team on the road, the Colts team at home, and the Cowboys team on the road.

If they were going to Dallas, I'd say, oh, yeah, that is too much to ask of a Middling Giants team. I'll give. Let's just say, I'm not even saying it's going to happen. It is not. But if you're going to throw out the backers, you got to throw out of the teams. I mean, yeah, to your argument, Football outsiders who's DVOA is rather high on the Giants in general.

They have the highest DVOA of any team in that division. Which should tell you something about DVA then. I think they've been a better team than their record throughout the season. I think they're an average type of team. They have a higher chance to make the playoffs, Danny, than the Browns do at least. 1.4. They're giving them 1.4%. They have a 1.4%.

The other two sites I check out. So you're saying there's a chance. ESPN, FBI, and then 538, they give them almost like no chance at all. It's not a, I'm not saying it's going to happen. I'm just saying it could happen. And also, it doesn't matter what any of these pollsters think anyways. That's great that there's all these percentages flying around. The Giants could just go win all their games, take care of business, and let the rest of these.

If you trusted the pollsters, Hillary would be in the White House right now. They're not pulsed. They're enmassed over and over. 538, 538, you know, stopping on the. Trump's grave, and then they got their hat-handed to them. That shows a total, first of all, they gave Trump a much better chance than almost any other site. And like, hey, that's how percentages. First of all, that's true.

No, but I mean, they did not get it right. Come on. Of course you didn't get it right, but when you give someone a 40% chance, that means that they have a 40 out of 100 chance to win. You have a very admirable analytic mind, but there's also something called a human experience, where the giants could just spin magic, and you're the one that says any. can happen to all these teams. The Giants would be one of the most magical things to happen

in a long time that an 8 and 8 Giants team sneaks into the playoffs, and then Eli Manning goes on one final run in this podcast studio explodes into a thousand shards. Or they lose the next three games. Because it was a year ago we were bearing Nick Foles and the Eagles as having no shot.

We don't know anything ultimately. All right. Do anybody want to throw out one more or do we want to move on? We're just going like crazy? Yeah, we can move on. Let's move on. This is a good conversation. Do you have one, Wes?

No, that's a good note to end up. Anything is possible in the NFL. Ooh, add that to possible catchphrases. Dan is hot and masculine. Good trade old sister. Remember the last time she said that? Thank you, baby. All right.

At least Bridget no longer seems to infuriate Mark as much. I mean, I couldn't be more. It's so coming from a far. It's so obvious What was that, Bridgett? Good one, Mark. Not. That one doesn't bother me because I find her

funny. It was the one about Dan that really. It's just so we know what it is. It's just a manufactured joke. And it's four weeks later. The one thing I think they got to work. Popping it up is hilarious. Wait, he's starting to get angry.

I'm not. I literally can care less. I think one of the reasons we haven't heard from her in a while. I think Bridget 3,000 needs to work on the comedic timing, just like timing that not, you know. update it she's not a comedy bot she's not by design a comedy bot but she's working on it she's got bits all right let's know she's no scarlet johanson and her you know she doesn't have that type of uh hardware or software uh here we go thursday night football let's talk that game that the chargers

have their chance gregg you're excited uh this special time for a franchise that's been looking to get over the hump for years and years bury some ghosts um and or eradicate some ghosts. And here's a big opportunity, but the challenge is even bigger because you've got to go to Arrowhead to face the Chiefs. And Patrick Mahomes, who's now going next level.

Now he's doing no look passes. He's completely revolutionizing the position and he's at the absolute height of his power. This is like Michael Jordan in 1990, just realizing his great potential. Wow. It's like, how are you going to win in this situation? I mean, the Ravens had the recipe to do it.

they were a play or two away. But the Chargers have, at least under Anthony Lynn, showed no ability to be competitive with the Chiefs, which is a concern, I think. These two coaching staffs have matched up three times. It hasn't been competitive any one of those times, including a very similar situation in Week 15 last year when the Chargers could have put themselves into playoff position

and they got freaking dropped. I'm a little worried about a few things with the Chargers up front. We haven't seen the offensive line protect Rivers well lately. Sam Tevey's the right tackle and is among the worst right tackles in the league, according to pro football focus. Their center, Mike Pouncey, has been struggling, not sure if he's injured, which he often is lately giving up a lot of pressure. And you got D4, you got Justin Houston, you got Chris Jones, who has a sack every game for 10 weeks. That's problematic on the road on a short week. And you haven't seen the Melvin Ingram Joey Bosa show together yet.

Ingram's been very quiet over the last month. I think he has one QB hit plus sack in his last four games. And this is a great player. And so you want to see those two guys getting after Patrick Mahomes because I think that's what the Ravens did really well. I think between Mahomes having right there with Rogers is the best armed talent in the NFL and frankly expands more possibilities on a given play than Aaron Rogers. And then Tyreek Hill's speed, the chiefs can do so much more on a given play than any other team in the NFL. The possibilities are almost endless. I think you'll see that's the difference between the Chiefs and the Charger. Let me ask you a question, Wes, because I trust your reasoning in this realm of professional football.

And have you seen so far the Karim Huntless Chiefs, has there been a drop-off? Yes. Are they less? Yes. Oh, absolutely. Yes, I think Spencer Ware is a guy who, by the way, is injured this week and not yet practicing. He's a guy who runs short, choppy steps, and they don't like him getting to the perimeter. or they only like to use him in the middle of the field.

So they use Damien Williams for all the outside stuff. So they're trying to use two backs to do what Kareem Hunt could do. And neither of those guys is nearly the playmaker that Kareem Hunt is. I know that they have more rushing yards. This always happens. When a star running back goes out, that can do so much. They'll use a committee and they'll get more rushing yards, and that will show up in our statistical package week after week.

But Kareem Hunt, the way that they used them in the air game as well, like he's irreplaceable. I just think that he's... Last week, I thought I heard him, yeah. Absolutely. Just anecdotally, their drive success rate is probably plummeted. They're still scoring points, but they're getting three in outs and punts more often. I wonder, like Tyreek Hill described his injury as bad coming out of last week,

and he has that heel. He was limited in Tuesday, along with he said where we might get Eric Barry back. But then on the flip side, like if Melvin Gordon, who sounds like he's going to play in this game, if he weren't in because Austin Eckler is also not out, he's out as well, That, for me, would be a Chiefs win because I don't know what you do here. The Chargers thing is they don't turn the ball over, but getting Gordon back evens the playing field.

These are the top two teams in the league, according to football outsiders, in terms of efficiency. I mean, this is an amazing way to wrap up the Thursday schedule. And it is an opportunity, as much as logically the chiefs are better, hey, Philip Rivers, been talking about him as, you know, one of the most underrated quarterbacks ever. He's got a shot to win an MVP.

I'm not counting it out. If you go to Kansas City... Wait, hold on. You go to Kansas City and you just drop a hammer. Aren't you the guy who says there's too many guys in the MVP discussion? I do, but I'm just saying if Rivers went to Kansas City and outshine Mahomes, if then he beat the best... The huge stage.

Then he beat the best defense in football at home. It's really hard to do. The Ravens? The Ravens are one of the best statistically, you know. All right, one of the best. You're right. In L.A., and then you finished it off, and then you got the one seed. I at least could see a ground swell.

So he needs to do something special. Mike Williams has been making. I'm amazed Mike Williams only has 530 yards because every time he makes a catch, it just seems enormous. He's got to make special plays. You need Derwin James to go say, hey, I'm the defensive rookie of the year.

You need their stars to just step up. Look who's all in on the Chargers? Of course. Wow. We always knew it was in Greg, but now... I've been talking about this for five years. This all kind of checks out to me. You're basically a Chargers fan now.

Yeah. No, I'm not. But you can appreciate other stories, other in other teams. It doesn't pain me the same way, like, when they lose as, or if they lose in the playoffs, let's say, as the Patriots. Do you think George Kittle or anybody's better than Travis Kelsey right now with this quarterback and in this offense?

I think Kittles is a better all around. If you could just take one guy who had the best season, I think it's Kittle. I think. But Kelsey's amazing. Kittles a better blocker, and it shocks me to say this. He's better after the catch than Kelsey. But Kelsey's better at using his body, I think, in traffic. Let's pick this game.

Let's see, now I'm in a... I mean, I think the Chargers can hang. They really can. I think they're going until the end, but I think this has a 27, like 25-type feel, Kansas City. This is one of the legit home field advantages. It's a short week. That's a huge factor.

That would be a victory. If you could hold the Chiefs under 30 in that building in Prime Time. I don't think it's a victory if they don't. I think any loss is a big issue with the Chargers. If your defense is able to keep them under 30 points and you lose, that's a big bummer. Chiefs, 33, 27, and I'm locking it up. Oh. Oh.

Oh. And guess what? And now that I am, we'll get to this on the preview show, I have fallen out of the race and I'm just going to enjoy what's shaping up to be a great battle. It goes through the Super Bowl. What are you talking about? Well, it's going to be very hard, put it that way. So from my perspective, I think I'm too far out. So I'm enjoying this battle between the Kiss and Cousins.

That feels like psychological warfare. If my team, if I, my team was two games out through, like, with six or seven weeks to go, and my coach was like, we're just going to sit back and enjoy, like, the Patriots and Dolphins go for the ASE's title. How dare you? You put the lock trophy on my desk in October in a bit of psychological warfare, and now you're accusing Danham. But I labeled it as such on Twitter two seconds later.

I don't know how this would qualify psychological work. You're like, oh, I'm just going to sit back and not care anymore. Nonsense. We have seven weeks left of the season, right? Right. Seven weeks left. You're down by two games. I think I'm out four games now.

I've been struggled. Three. All right, who cares? But my point is I'm picking the Chargers. I'm not going to lock it up. I'm not going to lock it up. Wow, we've got to lock off. I'm not locking it up.

I'm not locking it. So what was that whole thing about? I was just more, I was kind of into this race right now. I'm really into the lock race. But I, so, and Wes locked up a team. It's the only reason. playing the NFL season right now. Exactly.

But I, this is more, I'm rooting for this. I'm rooting for a fun Thursday night. Daddy's going to have a couple of Titoes and watch the game and it's going to be fun. And what would be better than Phil Rivers going down the field and winning a ball game in the fourth quarter at Arrowhead? Yeah. Patrick Mahomes doing his 90 Jordan thing? There it is.

My head in my cold heart, my head agrees with Wes. I almost thought about locking up for the Chiefs. I don't like the Andy Reid, Gus Bradley match it. But there's no way I'm going to do that. And since there's no repercussions, why wouldn't I pick the chargers? That's who I'm rooting for. That's what I want to happen. Are you locking it?

No, that's what I hope happens. You've already given up on the locks. Why don't you just make it interesting? Hey, you never know. You can have a three-way lock-off. You never know. You're not going to try to lose. I mean, you never know.

This could go, this, my lock situation, I think I was three under five. It could be like the famous Marshall Falk comeback in the picks on NFL game day morning in 2011. Or like to try. You are such a football. or the Rob or the Rob Riggle come back no I'm making this up or the Rob Riggle come back in 2015 because you're in last place that no one cares about no I'm serious I'm different I really invest in the picks and there was one time Terry Bradshaw in 1997 was down nine games with 10 to play he didn't give it up he kept

you don't even watch that show right this isn't you made that up hey still I'm gonna go Bradshaw 99 you don't watch that show still in search of the perfect holiday gift Bradshaw 99 just said 93 Bradshaw doesn't even remember 1999. Nautica's got you covered when it comes to last minute gifts. Nautica is something for everyone on your list. Help friends and family stay cozy all season long and cold weather

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He kept picking those Sunday night games right. He passed Bob Costas. We all say what you do. You're trying to belittle their great pick battle because for another year, you're also ran. It's not over. I'm saying it's not over. It may be it's not. You've said it's over for like a month now.

We're not playing into a second of this. All right. Coming up now. And this is the only reason I'm here today because. by way of introduction we, last week, we decided we deserve an MVP vote, you know? And then we did a little research

and we found out that the man that runs the pro football writers association by runs, I mean he's the president is Bob Glover and it's time for a discussion with Bob, quite frankly. Bob, are you there?

Yes, I'm here. That sounds a little bit terrifying. Bob is like the uncle that I didn't even know until I was like 34 years old when I started beating him at NFL events. Yes. He's been at Newsday, a big-time New York paper as an NFL columnist since 92.

But Bob also grew up on the other side of the Tabinsey Bridge in Westchester and actually lived in Rockland County where I'm from. And I did, yeah, he grew up in the cold, right next to the coal town, Pearl River, New York. So So me Here's someone who cut that off

Back here's someone who knows Leafy suburb Bob grew up in Nanuette Or it didn't grow up in Nanuette He lived in Nanuette For over a decade Which was the The arch rival

Of Pearl River And we played the little brown jug game Every year This is real small-time life That's town life That Bruce wrote about But here's Bob Glober Welcome to the show Bob

Well thank you very much gentlemen I mean, and it's just a pleasure. I've known you guys a long time. I've admired your ascent to the upper reaches of NFL communication. No, seriously, I really, I go back to our time. But not the press room. No, I go back to the time in the press room at Lucas Oil Stadium when you guys are, you know, four ham and eggers just trying to make your way.

And now, you know, you're big time and kind of all around the world. Yeah, Bob is one of those guys. Like he's just been around who, Bob started the journal news or made his bones. Also the paper I started writing at. But since 1992 has been at Newsday, who stays at one newspaper since 1992? Clover's doing something right. It's amazing. I am so grateful for Newsday.

It truly is amazing because that business has changed so much. It's incredible. I feel like we're like I call Newsday an oasis of stability and just a mad business, a crazy business. And, you know, it's not like just locked into one job doing. the same thing over and over. There's so much variety in this, and you guys know, it's the greatest thing going. And to be able to do it for a long time, I'm eternally grateful. Very cool.

So Bob's a good dude. And first of all, you're at the owner's meetings in Texas, right? How's your hair today, Hansis, by the way? It's still all right. I think I'm about two weeks, two to three weeks out removed from my most recent haircut. It's called the Gentleman's Contours, the name of the haircut. And so it's kind of still in the back end of its prime before I know. need to get another tune-up.

All right. Is there a lot of product in use or no? Yes. There's a lot of product, a lot of conversation, a lot of... What Dan likes to do is he'll come into the office with his hair untouched, and then he'll stand up and kind of shift his body around so the entire newsroom can see him take his gel that was sent to him by the company, and son has put it through his hair, and it's like an in-office thing, and then he sort of sits down at his keyboard.

Like, that's a normal thing for a man to do in a newsroom. That's all accurate. No, he really does have incredible hair, and I say that to him every time I see him. All you guys have your most distinctive features, and I love the fact that I have nicknamed for, I think, all of you, right? What are they? Well, Rosenthal, who gets younger every time I see him is Benjamin Button. All right? I'll take that.

Wesleying, who is a very well-read young man who loves to write, and all are good writers, very good writers, great writers. But I call him Bartleby the Scrivener for some Edgar Allan Poe ref. Oh, yeah. I read that book in high school. Yeah. I would prefer not to. I can think we went over this. Yeah.

And Cessler, of course, the aggrieved Browns fan. And Hanzas, I just call Hanzas, but, you know, hair, it's just the hair. So I think you've called me hair, yeah. Many a winter or that. We need to have Bob on every week. This just feels good. So I mean, it's just, I hope you don't mind that we go in this direction a little bit, but it's just, I've, there's just so much pent up demand here because I've never been on your, no, it's great. I'm, I'm thrilled.

And I mean that. We'll see if you say that at the, by the end of this segment. All right. All right. All right. Yeah, I've been forewarned. Go ahead. All right.

So here's the situation, Bob. So we have, as you alluded to yourself, we've been on the rise in the industry, our podcast. is a global brand, to be quite frank with you. So I've heard. And we're influential in that sense, within the sphere, the podcast sphere, which no big deal, but podcasts are kind of a big deal in our industry now. So put it all together. Okay.

And I feel like we have a voice in the football cognizanti, if you will. Okay, yes. I'll agree with that. You have voices, yes. Collectively and individual, yes. So we're talking, and we love talking about the MVP race, and it's so fun to really figure it out because there's especially this year who's going to win MVP who fell behind this week who's who's catching up who's a dark horse we're just talking

about Phil Rivers what if he goes off on Thursday night and Arrowhead does that buy him some stock in the MVP race all that good stuff but the one thing we don't have Bob right is an MVP vote and it got us thinking we don't need four MVP votes we just need one and it would be one that we all collectively come together. And before I throw it back to you, Bob, we did prepare a statement, a formal pitch that you're going to hear over the phone here, but a letter will follow a certified letter

to your Long Island estate later. Sure, certified and, okay, okay. So here it is, without further ado, Mark Sessler, it will be notarized. Of course, Mark Sessler reads a prepared statement to you, Bob Glouber, president of the Pro Football Writers Association. Dear Lord Glauber, we humbly kneel before you with a request to make things right. We understand the guidelines of the hardworking noble PFWA.

Yes, it makes sense for most of the NFL's in-house media limb to be kept outside the doors of your organization. Someone like Daniel Jeremiah should not be allowed to vote on the MVP, Totally on board with that. But there is a foursome inside our building who have given their day-by-day lives to covering this game, not just tracking one team and maybe catching a few primetime tilts when you can, but every single contest all season long.

This four-pack of football nerds even includes a duo named the scientists, Chris Wesleyan and Greg Rosenthal. West studies every play of every game and overcame cancer. Greg studies every play of every game and does a good job with that. Bouncing out these zealots are Dan Hansis, a Jets fan, and yours truly, a Browns fan. We've never jumped ship, which should tell you something about our loyalty to the sport we cover. Are we NFL writers? Hmm.

NFL research notes, the four of us have combined to write more than 14,000 articles for NFL.com. Humble brag. And we live in America. Box checked. Our commitment to observing every player from every team and every game, every week for years and years on end, makes this foursome the Around the NFL podcast uniquely qualified to cast one unified MVP vote. We will make you proud, my lord.

A true leader does not hide behind the rules. He or she creates new boundaries to match the changing times. Preach. And in this case, the evolving world of NFL coverage, you have the chance to spark a revolution and change football forever. The pigskin is in your court. Can I get an amen? Amen.

Matt. Bob, the floor is now yours. I mean, Sessler, that was brilliant. I humbly accept your entreaty. I find it incredibly thoughtful and passionate and impressive. And begging is off the charts. I love it. Fantastic. You can never go wrong begging. and I hereby bequeath you an MVP vote for however you want to name it,

you know, the fearsome, foursome, or whatever your foresomes name it. The heroes? The heroes? Yeah. Just keep going. Oh, that's great. So the heroes, the heroes shall have a vote for the MVP in the context of it shall be another important voice in the cataphanie of a voice among MVP.

Now, that's untoward, Bob. What? You got our hopes up. No, the other shoe drop that was untoward. But here's the thing. Here's the thing. Which MVP are you talking about? How about the Associated Press?

Okay, you're talking about the Associated Press. That is the recognized MVP award. I know you guys have your own and that's great. And sporting news, they do a nice job, whatever. But we want the big tamale You want to go for the gusto hands is correct? Absolutely, that's what we do. You want the AP MVP vote

To go to the heroes Yeah, have one From now and forever, right? Correct. Or at least until you're no longer in office Or we are no longer around. Well, now I don't know how the This is going to be tough

Letting you down easy on this But I'm not the gatekeeper on this one. Oh, you're passing the buck. So what about? But here's the thing. Uncle Bob. Is it not? true that we're not even allowed into the pro football writers association because we work for

the NFL. There are guidelines for the pro football writers of America. By the ways, pro football writers of America, that if you work for a team or the league, that there is not a membership spot. Don't, I mean, I have my rejection letter from Jim Trotter framed on my wall, so I do understand Goddard gave you a rejection letter? Yeah, and now he's here. We haven't been able to talk about that.

I've done my research, Bob. You were the vice president of the association. The Dick Cheney of the whole operation. And one can only call. I was the hitman. Trotter was the smiling face. I was a hitman. You are.

And what could, yeah, I mean, what could only be described as a power grab by Bob, he probably pushed Trotter out the door to NFL media, knowing full well that he would be rescinded and stripped of his power. Right. So that's a good example. Jim Trotter is a former president of your association.

Now in a bloodless coup, you took over, and he's not even, is he even allowed to be in the organization now that he wasn't? He's cast out. Here's the thing, though, Bob. You have influence in the industry, and you know these AP votes are jokes sometimes. 50 people have them. It's also the Associated Press votes, and I'm not going to name any names, but there are certain television organizations that have votes and they give it to on-air personalities that have

their assistants do the votes. What a disgrace. You have certain beat writers that may have just joined the beat and they have to send it out to other people and say, hey, can you help me with this? And that's the people voting and we can't get a vote. All right.

Now, I can't, listen, I can't answer for them. I truly can't. Do you have an AP vote? I have an AP vote. So you have some influence. You've probably done it before. Give us your vote. You could certainly bring it up. Let's hear Bob out.

Let's hear Bob out. I'm one of 50. I know the AP writer, Barry Wilner kind of organizes the voting process. He sends out the correspondence. Barry Wilner is a long time national writer and columnist for Associated Press. W-I-L-N-E-R. He's next. N-E-R.

I know Barry. He's a Rockland man, Kansas. Oh, good. All right. He's a Rockman man. So you can, like, find his house. I will. I will find his house.

I will. Knock on that door. So Barry, Barry Wilner handles it, and he asked me about, oh, man, I don't know, 15 years ago. Just, you know, when I started doing it, maybe 20, I don't know. It's the years all go together. And, man, you better believe that's a high honor. Right, yeah. I mean, imagine how it felt to Bob Costas' assistant.

It was one of the best days of his life. Oh, see, you came out with it. Well, that is a good. You could not hope. Dude, did you realize what you just did? Rosenthal, you made news. Uh-oh. Oh, man.

Go back. Go, go, go. You're going to erase this? Or are you going to let this go? Oh, it's staying in. I'm, you know, unlike... Uncover the hypocrisy. I think the media, especially at this time in the world,

should be worried about truth. And that's all I'm about is the truth. John Lennon said it. Give me some truth. I think what we're dealing with here is, do you put more weight on integrity or the appearance of integrity? Of course I put more weight on integrity, and I hope that – no, no, seriously. And I'm going to just take all the joking aside, seriously.

I absolutely take this and the AP All-Pro vote extremely seriously. I have a lot of discussions about it, and I try to do the best possible job every year. Because, you know what, this is important stuff. Can I give you a compliment? Sure. The All-Pro voting, the last couple of years, has been better than ever. better than ever? I think so.

I think five, six years ago, it was almost a joke. Some of the guys getting elected for the All-Pro team in the last couple of years, I think people have been doing a lot more homework. You know, I can't speak to anybody. Although I do consult with other All-Pro voters, and we have discussions. You know, one of the people I trust a lot

is Jenny Vrentis from Sports Illustrated. I think she's one of the best football minds in America. and I give her opinions a lot of weight. I talk to coaches, former coaches, quite a few former coaches, and people who know what they're seeing. So, yeah, it's important. And you, listen, you guys are as smart as anybody in the business. There's no doubt.

And I'm not sucking up. It's just, it's true. There are a lot of smart people who are watching this game and who are studying it very closely. Just because they're not, you know, one of 50, you know, voters in this somewhat, it's not arbitrary, but, you know, just because you're not selected doesn't mean the heroes, doesn't mean the hero's voice isn't heard. All right, Bob. Thank you. Thank you for having this conversation and an honest process. And we're going to go after Barry Wilner next, because we're not going to stop. Is it basically where this, our conversation ends, but the journey continues.

And I do think these PFWA rules are out of date. I mean, they were written before a lot of the – I mean, think of all the conflicts of interests, a lot of – there's a lot of conflicts of interests. You don't have to work for a league or team to have them. And I think an organization like that could have the intelligence to kind of pick out who could be part of such a thing. Well, I will say that we have had a lot of discussions about this. Sometimes there's a slippery slope that you go down because not everyone kind of falls in. into the same group. You have some team hired writers who are, you know, have access to every single thing going

on, whereas writers for, I guess, for lack of a better term, mainstream media, do not have that. So how do you, how do you, you know, kind of walk that line? Rosie, it's very, it's deep and it's complicated. It's basically like the JFK assassination part too. I've talked to a lot. What's that? It feels like the JFK assassination sort of part two.

It's that much of a, it's a wormhole. Or the Kramer spit, you know, how many times did he go. Bob Glover is a good sport. He's a good man. And he has a new book out, by the way. Guts and genius. Finally. The story of three unlikely coaches who came to dominate the NFL in the 80s.

It's a book about, and this is, you know, I talk about it all the time. Growing up in Pearl River, you know, after church. And there's Poppy sitting on the couch, watching. in those classic NFC East games on his brown couch seat and drinking his rupee or eating his pretzels. This book is about Parcells. It's about Gibbs and it's about Bill Walsh. And what else, Bob?

Why did you write the book? Well, I wrote it because I like NFL history. I actually lived that era. I started covering football in those great days. It's a different time in football. And it's kind of hard to relate to now because, you know, free agency has really evened out the talent pool. and you don't have these great long-standing rivalries from year to year.

You have great games, and you have a great league, and you have a great product. But you knew every year who your team was, who your quarterback was, who your coach was. And those three coaches in particular, Parcells, Gibbs, and Walsh, were very unlikely when they started. In 1979, if someone had told you, okay, over the next decade, over the next 12 years, I'm going to give you three names. These guys are going to be Hall of Fame coaches who are going to preside over potentially the best decade of pro football and that's bill walsh bill parcels and joe gives if you had heard that in 79 you would have said what are you talking about i i've never heard of these people because that's how

obscure they were when they came into you know into their jobs and they they kind of gutted it out early they all thought they were going to get fired within two years of uh getting hired they didn't think they were going to make it and they persevered and they really did change the sport and I find it amazing incredible that all 32 of today's NFL coaches even the the interim coaches they are all part of either the parcels or walsh coaching tree wow and seven yeah 30 of 37 super bowl since wals won his first one have been won by either walsh gibbs or parcells or someone on their coaching trees and that includes 17 of the last 18 and it will and it will soon be 18 of the last 19 because they're

all on either of those trees. Remarkable. Who is the one? Another one? Dungey? What do you mean? Oh, Bill Cower was the one who was not on either tree. Wow. He was the only one. He was on the Marty Schottenheimer tree. He's on the Schottenheimer tree. So it's not

from the Parcells or Walsh trees or Gibbs Street. Now, Gibbs tree was kind of non-existent. He just kind of came and went. He was this brilliant flash of a coach who won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks, and you could make a case is the greatest coach of all time based on those restrictions that he had a quarterback or limitations.

Those other two guys were, you know, they were all incredible coaches, but I think the legacy left behind, especially by Parcells and Walsh, it continues to reverberate in today's game. What's the predominant offense in today's NFL? It's the West Coast offense forged by Bill Walsh. In Cincinnati, oddly enough.

On the banks of the Ohio River. On the banks of the Ohio with Bert, the infamous Bert, the famous Virgil Carter, who couldn't throw a ball 30 yards without it being intercepted. But Walsh came up with the system, perfected it, grew it, and other coaches kind of taken that and run with it. And what I find amazing is that, you know, both Parcells and Walsh had this real desire to help others. And Parcells got it from his basketball coach, Mickey Corcoran,

his high school basketball coach in Ordeal, New Jersey. And he says, Mickey always told me, you got to help others. You've got to do it. It's your responsibility. And Walsh got it from being passed over by Paul Brown in 1976 when he could have been the Bengals head coach. And, you know, Bengals fans have heard this, but, you know, he would have been completely happy

to spend the rest of his career in Cincinnati. So Paul Brown passes him over. And then at that moment, it was a worst time of this. It was a mistake. It was a mistake. And then Walsh handed it to the Bengals and their only two Super Bowl appearance. There you go.

There you go. Book ended his two Super Bowls over the Bengals, and Paul Brown was on the field for both times, and it was tough for Paul Brown. But, you know, Walsh promised himself and promised the people around him that if you ever did get a chance after getting passed over, that he would help every coach who worked with him. And out of that despondency, after he got passed over,

came the most impressive coaching tree in the history of sports, not just the NFL. Bob, it's a great subject matter, and it's obviously a great Christmas gift, and you can find guts and genius, the story of three unlikely coaches who came to dominate the NFL in the 80s. Anywhere books are sold, including Amazon, let's be honest. I mean, Amazon's going nuts right now. I'm currently reading it, and I would say it's not a given that all these football books are going to be well-written. This one is well-written.

It spins a good yarn, and it'd be a bit like. like if there were three Belichicks in the AFC for the last decade and a half. Wow. Bob, you're a good sport. Appreciate that, Bartleby. Thank you. You're a good man and a great uncle. All right, thank you. Bob Glover.

All right, kids. See you, Bob. See you, Bob. Love it. All right. Take care. All right, there goes, Bob Glover. We don't have our vote yet. Obviously, the goal there was to end that conversation with a vote, but we're going to fight on.

Barry Wilner is next. I mean, I'm not surprised it wasn't just a one-step process. These are big organizations we're going up against. I am after hearing that statement you read. We did our part, but we'll keep doing our part. We're going to keep fighting. We're just starting the battle. Okay, we'll be back Thursday night with a recap of that great charges chiefs battle

and then a preview of all the week 15 games on Sunday and Monday and Saturday as well. So let us get out of here. This is Dan Hansen signing off for Quiet Storm. the mailman, the old boss, and Ricky Hollywood, behind the glass. We will persevere. We will get that boat because we deserve it, damn it. Until Thursday night. This is an IHeart podcast.