NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Coaches Carousel, Texans Talk with Seth Payne and Mailbag!

Episode Date: January 12, 2021

A room filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, and Marc Sessler bring you all of the latest news in the NFL starting with Chase Claypool talking some smack on TikTok (3:39), Keith Hanzus leaving a message for Marc (5:01) and the coaching carousel spin begins with the firing of Eagles head coach Doug Pederson (6:52). Seth Payne stops by to talk Deshaun Watson and the Texans (25:05) and the heroes reach into the mailbag (42:00).Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis. I come to you. I'm a virtual room filled with some heroes. Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal. What's that, boys? Little playoff Tuesday show. How about that?

I feel like I needed that Monday to, you know, we had some work to do. We all did respectively, but I needed it to recover a little bit. Six versus four games, like that was, it was like underrated how much different that experience was. That was intense, and I mean, we know the NFL that nothing's, going to ever contract. It's only going to expand. So that's our life for the wildcard, super wildcard weekend for the rest of time. But more than ever, I think that my

actual naming of bloated wildcard weekend, there is an argument to be made that it was just a tad bloated while also being enjoyable. If you're working it. Yeah, if you're working it, that's a lot. Like we said, we were never consulted on this as creatives, but things can always change. You know, we talk about the Super Bowl. That was initially the AFL, NFL, NFL, NFL championship game for the first two years until Jets Colts in 69. So maybe we still have a window to get in on bloated Wild Guard weekend. I don't know if that's going to fly. I don't know. I don't think that's a message they're hoping to say, you know. It feels like it might have a critical connotation. I don't think it felt bloated. There were just moments where I was like,

just like a human being, it's like, hmm, I'm feeling a little bloated at the moment. I won't four hours from now when games are still raging on. But there were Twitter. in turns that felt a little bloaty. Wild card marathon. How about that? It's maybe not the league's fault. It's the Bears' fault. If the Chicago Bears, that game wasn't plop in the middle of the Sunday schedule,

things probably would have felt different. But anyway, we say this now, but come this summer in July or so, when we're cranking through shows trying to come up with ideas of things to talk about, we're going to laugh at, you know, talking about playoff football. not being up to snuff. I mean, we're going to be looking forward to the preseason for cripes' sake. All right. Good perspective.

Tuesday. That's what I'm here for, Mark. Tuesday. Mark's still floating. Floating on air. You can tell. You can see it. It's coming through.

The Browns are one of the final eight teams. And we're going to get into all of the playoff matchups in the divisional round, the best football weekend of the year on Thursday show. Today, we're going to have a more traditional news. news show. We haven't had one of those in a while. We're going to get through a lot of news, what's going on in the league, what's going on with the openings GM. We have another coach change. We're up to seven now. And then there's a lot of stuff going on down in Texas and Houston with the Texans, as we know. We're tracking this with some of the decision making that organization is making

and Deshaun Watson being unhappy. We had to get Seth Payne back on the horn, who does great coverage and he works down there. And he's been on our show before to just give us a look into what's going on with the Houston Texans and a really important offseason for them. All right. But first, as I said, we have a lot of news to hit. So let's go. You know, a bad loss, but Browns are going to get clapped next week.

So it's all good. Steelers still talking, Chase's Claypool, saying that the Browns are going to get clapped by the chiefs this weekend. Mark, your thoughts? I mean, I think there are maybe three or four people on the planet that when they speak about the Browns, I listen or care what they have to say. Chase Claypool is not one of those three or four people. I think most people have been wrong about the Browns all season.

Chase Claypool is saying that after they were beaten by Cleveland two times in a row. I think there might be better things for him to wax on about at this point. And on the subject of the Cleveland Browns, Ricky His name is Keith He's dance dad No doubt about it He's a big

Brown What is he going to say About the name today What is he going to say About the name today Congratulations Mark on the Cleveland Browns Not only making the playoffs

But destroying The Pittsburgh Steelers And Big Ben last night I myself have never been a big fan of the Steelers and I know they've been your arch rival for many, many years and have been trashed in the Browns. So I know it has to be particularly satisfying for you. So you're an inspiration for Jet Fans.

Good luck against Kansas City. Go Browns. There you go. How about that message from my old man? That is one of the three or five. four people I would listen to because the first time I ever met your dad at the Super Bowl, this is someone who's been tracking football for decades. He knows the game very well. And my hope is that the same will happen for him and Jets fans too, because Dan's dad is someone

who deserves a little bit of sunshine at this point. And he does it every year. He sent a text to me and my brother this morning on this date, 52 years since Joe Namath rose the finger as He jogged off the field at the Orange Bowl after the Jets upset the Colts 16 to 7 in the first Super Bowl, Super Bowl 3. So, man, to not get back to that game since then. It is cool how much the Browns win. Like, it's awesome to see how happy everyone is. Like, I think people really identify, like, people were more into that game because of you, Mark. My friend Dave, who listens to the show sometimes, said he was, like, so fired up, like, after listening to the beginning.

and my dad was texting me during the game fired up for you. Like you are Mr. Brown. How come your dad didn't send him a message then, Greg? If he, you know, was it too? I don't think they've ever spoken. I mean, so I could give them the number. It's true, though. Like the Browns represent hope to the hopeless.

So if they could do it, if they could rebuild their organization and win in that type of way, who can't? All right. Let's get into it starting, yes, with the latest head coaching announcement. one was percolating a little bit. Initially, Doug Peterson was safe after week 17. And then last week there was a meeting with Jeff Lurie, the team owner that we were told in a report on Monday didn't go so well or on Sunday. And then on Monday the report where it is announced that the Eagles have parted ways with Doug Peterson, the coach that brought the franchise. It's only Super Bowl

just, what, three years ago. So now he is out ending a partnership. and we see what happens next with both teams. Lori had a video press conference to discuss this seismic move within the organization. Here's what he had to say. My first allegiance is what will be best for the Philadelphia Eagles and our fans for the next three, four, five years. It's not based on does someone deserve to hold their job or deserve to get fired. That's a different bar. It's not about, did Doug deserve to be let go?

No, he did not deserve to be let go. That's not where I'm coming from, and that's not the bar in the evaluation process. A lot of Eagles players came out in defense of Doug Peterson wishing him well. Greg, was this the right decision? I think it was. I think they needed to make a change. And it was either going to be Peterson or Peterson and Howie Roseman. So, you know, I think it wasn't working.

You could hear the whispers in the telecast that the front office and the head coach weren't getting along. You could, you know, see from Ian's, you know, tweet on Monday, you know, Peterson was tired of being told what to do. And there's been more reporting that basically the, you know, ownership didn't like the idea of Peterson elevating press Taylor to be his offensive coordinator. They had other ideas. And it's like, like I get it from Peterson's. perspective. If he's the head coach and he can't choose his offensive coordinator, then he shouldn't be the head coach. And they probably knew he was going to take that stance. And it's time to make a change. It's unfair because he's the first head coach to get fired within three years of winning a

Super Bowl since 72. Don McAfordy, who won Super Bowl 5. And it's not like the Eagles have struggled the last three years. Like they almost made the conference championship two years ago and they made the playoffs last year, in 2019, despite a ton of injuries. But I also think it's, like, better to get out a year early than go on when it wasn't working between them, too. And Howie Roseman has earned some rope, I think, that he can build up a successful team. He's done it a few times. I mean, Howie Roseman will be onto his fourth head coach. You know, he hasn't been in the same position the entire time.

But he's chosen well when he's had the, you know what I mean? He has. And I think that a little bit of this might have to do. And if you listen to what Lori was saying, and he's, I think, Jeffrey Lurie is one of the more straight talk. He's a straight talker, I think, to some degree about what he feels. And I think he talked about collective vision that Jeffrey Lorry and ownership were not on the same page with probably what needs to happen. Like the team's best players are over 30.

The only Pro Bowl player they've drafted since 2016 is Carson Wentz. This is a team that needs to take, you know, a deep look at how it's built. It's in salary cap hell heading into the offseason. And I think Lori is sort of saying we might not, it's not a rebuild because owners don't say that. But there's a lot that needs to happen here for the team to get back into the model of a team that'd be successful for years on end. And Peterson would go into the year on, you know, on the hot seat, I think, already. And wanting to do everything to keep the Eagles just sort of in this current mode where I think that he'd be in a tough position. He's not seen eye to eye, like he said, Greg, with the front office.

And the owner, I think, showed a little bit of self-awareness and a realization about where the team is right now. And there's probably a little bit of the Carson Wentz stuff going on, too, where Peterson and Carson Wentz, that relationship felt ultra-fractured at this point. I feel like Peterson was scapegoated here, and ownership obviously sided with Howie Roseman and said that, you know, Roseman's not the problem, even though you just mentioned that, like how many pro bowlers have been drafted into this organization, he's still Roseman getting

the benefit of the doubt, whereas Doug he entered this year in a place of supreme job security, but, and this is how it works in the NFL, the quarterback went in the tank. Somebody's fault. The quarterback wasn't seeing eye to Iowa Doug anymore. That's somebody's fault. It's Doug

Peterson's fault. Get him out of here and that will fix things. I just don't know if this is going to make the Eagles better. And, you know, I've been, yes, I would be too. And actually, I might be relieved if I'm Doug Peterson because there might be some dysfunction behind the scenes with this organization. And I just wonder if the Eagles, when the smoke clears here and they hire whoever they hire, is it going to be a better solution than what Doug Peterson was?

And will that guy be inheriting a team that's kind of in a sneaky bad place right now? Well, what would you, they are in a bad place, I think, with the roster and the cap and everything. the fact that Wentz is, if they were to trade Wentz, would be very difficult to trade because of that contract. I guess my answer to you, Dan, would be like, what else would you do? I think you could cut, you could, you know, not to answer my own question, but I think you could get rid of Howie and Doug, but it wouldn't make sense.

It's not like you're going to get rid of Howie keep Doug and then have a new front office. Like, you can get rid of Carson Wentz, and maybe they still do that. But I guess they had to do something. I don't know what it was. I feel like trading Carson Wentz and moving. Moving forward with Jalen Hurts was the move. But maybe they'll end up doing multiple moves here as they try to change where they're going. While we're on the subject, let's start spinning the carousel, the coaching carousel.

Hell, the GM carousel, because where are we at right now? We are seven openings at Head Coach. It's very creepy. Seven GM openings. So I'm just going to spin through the latest, what's going on. We'll start since we just mentioned the Eagles. The Eagles requested to interview Buck's defensive coordinator Todd Bowles for the team's head coaching vacancy. Also, they want to interview Robert Sala, who's obviously high in demand and Arthur Smith.

The Eagles, in addition to the messiness of all this, they're playing from behind because every other team has already been working on this for a week, if not more. And speaking of Robert Sala, he is, it was reported, he's flying in for a second interview. or has a second interview scheduled with the Jets. And it's reported that he's a finalist for that position. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, Jets fans would be over the moon if they got Sala. Also keep in mind, of course, Doug Peterson, Joe Douglas, the ties there back in Philadelphia.

I would say, and who knows how this all turns out, the Jets ending up with either Peterson or Sala at this point, that would be, to me, the two favorites to get that job. I personally would like Sala, but I wouldn't be totally against Doug Peterson either there. I would love Sala for the Jets. If your dad wants something that he could be excited about, that also, Robert Sala's best man at his wedding was Matt LaFleur.

And he is super tight with the Loflores, which includes Mike LaFleur, and he's also attached to Mike McDaniel. These two coaches have been the secret sauce to San Francisco's offense, and they are the two names linked. One of them, it would probably be one of them, that would go with Sala to the Jets to run that offense. That would be a new day. I could not, I would immediately feel very differently about the New York Jets if they pulled that

off. To get him in there for the second interview, don't let them leave. Don't let them out of the room. And that's when you have to trust ownership to get that done. Sala is everything, Greg, that Gase is not and was not from whether you're talking about the optics to his reputation in the locker room, to his demeanor, to his ability to work with the media and be camera friendly. It's a totally different setup there. I totally agree. And I think the number one question with all these guys is what staff are you going to build? I think that's more important when you hire a defensive coach

because to me, offense is more important. And so you better have a good answer there. You better have someone you're excited about. And the names Mark said, I think you would be excited. I think that's perfect. And a second interview means you're ready to hire them. And they always say finalist. And sometimes the second interview is like,

okay, it went okay. Let's interview one more guy. But how would these things always go? you never bring the guy back a second time unless you're potentially ready to close that deal, like you guys mentioned. Especially in 2021 during trying to bring people in person

ever, they are serious and I, Dan, this would be huge for you. Right, so they want to finish it or, you know, they want to put pressure on him to say yes too, potentially because he is a guy, we don't know, you know, all these teams are interviewing the same guys. It's a little annoying, but

it's like everyone's just, it's like Arthur Smith, Robert Salah, like it's everyone and interviewing the same guys, so they're going to be competing. They should do like a huge, just a huge job fair. Why are we doing this an individual? Just get everyone in the same giant convention center. Given the climate, getting everyone underneath a gym auditorium roof, maybe a bit messy.

But in other news, coordinator news, Dan Quinn, the dismissed Atlanta Falcons coach who made his reputation as the DC of the Legion of Boom Seahawks defense. Well, he's back in a DC position with the Dallas Cowan. He was high in demand, and now he is paired with Mike McCarthy to try to coach up a defense, Greg, that was woeful in Dallas under Mike Nolan in 2020. It's funny because I think there's personnel, they didn't change it that much, fits with the Dan Quinn defense, which isn't that different than, you know, the Rod Marinelli type of defense that they had two years ago. And this is where being the Cowboys does help. I think Quinn, you know, because they're going to pay their coordinators more.

Oh, Kellan Moore, you want to go to Boise State? How about we pay you more than Zach Taylor's making as a head coach of the Bengals? Dan Quinn, whatever you want to do, like we'll put you on national TV and we'll pay you a ton of money to be our coordinator. Just come on over. It seems like a great fit. I love it too. And I think he's some of these guys that, you know, you find out as head coach that that job entails so much more. And I know that the defenses in Atlanta were largely pure.

And they didn't really develop players. That's a concern. But this is a high-energy guy. You remember that Wes and I felt for Dan Quinn pretty hard after talking to him at the Super Bowl. I do think the players really like Dan Quinn, especially in the coordinator role. So it's a big step up from Mike Nolan for the Cowboys. It's funny. You guys give me a hard time about Matt Rule and you think that I get upset about him not going to the Jets. It was Dan Quinn that I was really upset about because it seemed like when they were going through the process of replacing Rex Ryan. Oh, with balls. And they went with bowls instead because Quinn was going through the Super Bowl and the Jets

didn't want to wait. And I was worried that Quinn was going to be a decade plus studded head coach. I mean, he got to the Super Bowl soon after that. But now he's back perhaps where he is best at D.C. Speaking of D.C., Gus Bradley hired as the Raiders defensive coordinator, formerly replacing Paul Gunther, who got canned in December by John Gruden. Bradley has his work cut out for him. Obviously, this is a bad Raiders defense that allowed 30 points a game last year.

My favorite part of this, Mark's let us know that they sent the announcement. The Raiders did on Twitter with a picture of Ken Wisenhunt. Close enough. The problem is, you know, that there's like a 23-year-old social media, you know, lever-puller right there that made that mistake. and then we'll change. Where's Wiz? Yeah, former Charger, too.

So he was a former Charger coach and coordinator. Nice strong jaw line on Wiz. We haven't seen him in a while. It doesn't really look like Gus Bradley. Now, Gus has got a nice jawline, too. You're telling me, you're telling me, if you put Gus Bradley and Ken Wisenhunt, side by side, right in front of you, you'd immediately be able to tell who was his. Stop, of course.

Yes, one is bald. Yeah, one's bald. That helps. And Ken Wisen, I've seen them both in person. Whizzenhunt's an enormous individual. Oh, that's right. Wisenhunt, oh, I thought he was bald as well. You're right. No, Wisenhunt's a good-looking guy. I mean, Gus Bradley, we're talking about two former Legion of Boom play callers who are getting, you know, they'll get work until the end of days. We got Nick Shook on this podcast. We have Chris Wessling on this podcast. You seem to hint

there that because Ken Wisenhunt had hair, he was a good-looking guy. No, I'm not. That's not what I'm hinting. That's what you would like people to think that I'm hinting. I always thought I feel like that's where you were going with that. I mean, Nick Shook is a good-looking man, so is Wes. When he, like, coached the Cardinals to the Super Bowl, I remember covering that Super Bowl and thinking, like, this guy seems like a military general. That's Ken Wisenheim, you know?

Like, he commands it. And we mentioned Bradley and Quinn, both off the Seattle coaching tree. The Seahawks, they make a move while the team's quarter of the league nearly is looking to fill their GM post. They make sure John Schneider doesn't get away. He signs a five-year extension through 2027 this comes after the Lions saw permission to interview Schneider so

the Seahawks say no no no you stay right here let's fly get that Microsoft money what a great what that's a great organization to to to work for I mean Pete Carroll's like building like separate vacation homes that are like somehow attached to the the facility like he lives on the lake and it's just like oh you just send this little report out and And, you know, I know Paul Allen, the Microsoft guy passed, but they still got that Microsoft money. I think it's just like, oh, no, you're not going to go to Detroit. Here is, like, a truckload of cash. That was never going to happen.

But also, I'd say Pete Carroll, he already had that USC money. I mean, he's had money going on for a long, long time. It just seems like there is no ownership there quite right now. It's just sort of like, like Carroll, I think, has more power than maybe any coach in the NFL. including Bill Belichick. He's as close to an owner as like a coach gets. I'm sure he didn't want Schneider to go either. And speaking of Bill Belichick, finally in the news,

Bill Belichick announced that he declines to accept the Medal of Freedom that was offered by the White House. And Donald Trump in a statement, he said that recently I was offered the opportunity to receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom, which I was flattered by out of respect for what the honor represents and admiration for prior recipients. Subsequently, which is like, however,

the tragic events of last week occurred and the decision has been made not to move forward with the award. Bill got, you know, love in a lot of angles of social media there. And I get it. His decision comes at a time when Trump faces near, universal condemnation for his role

in last week's assault on the Capitol and Trump is facing his second impeachment in the past year as we record this so Bill's getting praised for saying thanks but no thanks Donald but even Bill a man who walks to the beat of his own drum would understand the optics of heading over to the Rose Garden this week to get a trophy from Donald Trump can we please calm down with saying this was some type of brave move

by Bill Belichick, it's the no-brainer of the century. Well, especially when he's talking about those weekly social justice meetings that he had with his team, which he mentioned actually at the year-end press conference as, you know, like he would lose his players. Apparently, though, like a couple golfers show. He might lose his job. Right. It's like, what's the one?

Well, I don't know. I'm not so sure about that one. I mean. I don't know, man. Right now in this climate? I get it. He's doing a grip and grab with Donald. I don't know.

Right, I get it, but a couple, well, first of all, you know, we don't need to get too deep into it. But this, you know, the NFL had plenty of support for, for, and Belichick was, you know, tied to Trump certainly. But a couple golfers did take the award, apparently, the day after they, like, they showed up and everything. And people were, people were just like, people were just like, come on. You know what it reminded me of, Dan, though, is when, when it was announced that Trump was going to pitch the opening day game at the Yankees, Because this news that Belichick was even getting this came out like Saturday night out of nowhere and immediately everyone was fired up. And even at the time I was like, oh, I wonder if Belichick has like said yes, yes to this. Because I think they're just like trying to put them in a tough spot and trying to like get some good PR here.

I'm struggling why golf, why golfers are receiving the presidential medal of freedom to begin with a bit. What have they, what have they done? Have you ever played golf? It is very difficult. I attempted it once and I agreed that it's, I don't know what that has to do with. the, you know, the core tenets of freedom. I mean, it's a, it's a total, totally fair question, mark. I have no idea.

And in fact, I'm going to research that. Roger Staubach got it once, which is Belichick's boyhood hero. And that apparently had some meaning to him, but he's going to have to see now. Grumble, grumble, grumble, I got screwed. All right, that's what's happening in the news. Let's now welcome in one of our favorite friends of the show. He is, listen, you can say it. I say it.

He's royalty down there in Texas. He's co-host of the morning show on Sports Radio 610, played 10 years in the National Football League for the Texans and the Jaguars. Went to Cornell. Ever heard of that? He is the great Seth Payne. Welcome back to the Around the NFL podcast. Thanks for bringing me in after the presidential talk.

But then also, I only caught a little bit of the handsome coach ranking. And I got to tell you, that's kind of my wheelhouse. I know that you guys brought me on for something else. But Kevin Stephansky, a man who is very, very strict about mask wearing, I realized a couple days ago that I didn't even really remember what he looked like. And I looked them back up. My God, ruggedly handsome. So you're on the same page there.

We've heard about that inwardly for months. I mean, Mark sends out, like, random texts at, like, three in the morning about how handsome Stephansky is. You go from Freddie Kitchens to Kevin Stefansky. Imagine if that was, you know, in another world, someone you went to from a dating angle. If you were a nice young woman and you started, you go from Kevin from Kitchens to Stafansky.

I mean, we've wondered if he's potentially a synthetic human and not real. Dan is wondering that. I also got a, you know, because he was in the news a lot last week, obviously for the COVID and being in the basement. And as someone who watches a lot of date line on NBC, he looks like the guy that's been in every date. line when the wife goes missing and there's some life insurance that hasn't been paid out. Yeah, but that's the bad boy appeal.

All right, enough of that, funny business. We need you to help us out with what's going on with the Texans, the Nick Casario, hired Sean Watson unhappy. This feels like catniff if you're doing radio down there. What's your over general vibe of what's going on with Houston? Is it a total mess? Oh, oh, it's a disaster. And I know the smile on my face would tell you a different story,

but I know you guys have been recording. And listen, I'm so happy for Mark because you've been simpatico with me the whole time on this whole Jack Easterby scenario. And so Jack Easterby was the vice president of football operations. He's been kind of, he's been an intriguing figure since he's been here. And a lot of people would point to him as a reason. for a lot of the divisiveness within the organization right now. So you guys have been on air or recording this podcast.

Andre Johnson just tweeted out. If I'm Deshawn Watson, I will stand my ground. The Texans organization is known for wasting players careers. Since Jack Easterby has walked into the building, nothing good has happened in or for the organization. And for some reason, someone can't seem to see what's going on. Pathetic! exclamation point.

So there's, yeah, look, Deshawn Watson is very, very unhappy. And I think the important thing to keep in mind here is that Deshawn Watson is not a malcontent. Deshawn Watson's not the guy that complains about stuff. If anything, he was criticized at times this year for being too positive and being too happy as all of, as they were having such a hard season. So at the end of the year, he says very, Very simply, on Monday after the Titans loss, we need a culture shift, that we need better leadership.

There are people that think they have the power and that they don't. I'm paraphrasing on the second part there. And a lot of people pointed to Jack Easterby. And at least, at the very least, when you talk about culture, this was a culture created by Bill O'Brien, who came from the Patriots. Jack Easterby, who came from the Patriots, and it was supposed to be the cultural maven. and, you know, it was supposed to bring in all this positive energy and whatnot. And Deshaun wanted something different. When all of a sudden, Cal McNair hires Nick Casario, who's very well qualified by every measure,

but he's from New England, I think that Deshaun Watson, who had been promised to have some kind of input and that he would be listened to, he was caught off guard, as were a lot of other people in the Texans organization. and it really felt like there was like skullduggery at work here that somehow they had departed from the process where they were going to use a search firm and use one of those candidates. And there's a whole lot more that goes into it.

But yeah, it's a mess in Houston right now. I mean, so Eric B. Enamee's name just came up before we started recording this as a candidate that they can talk to when the chiefs at some point are eliminated. So Monday. And if you are Deshawn Watson, Does that, would that settle him down? Because that was someone he particularly named himself.

I have a second little question. Have you ever, do you look out the window and see at any point, sort of like a suspicious black sedan parked out of there? You've been so vocal on Jack Easterby. I have to believe that Easterby, a mysterious figure might be having you tailed. I just would be concerned for your safety in the middle of all this. You know, the second part is something that came up in a Sports Illustrated article during the season. It was a big expose about Jack Easterby.

and this guy who is supposed to be incredible at creating the perfect organization, whereas there were a couple players quoted in there that thought that 85 to 90% of the people in the building don't trust Jack Easterby. And then one of the accusations a couple players made was that they felt like they were being tailed at some point. Personally, I think I'm safe, Mark, because frankly, I am one of a cacophony of voices singing out, raising our voices against Jack Easterby. I mean, Andre Johnson now joins the mix. I have talked to a bunch of people since that Sports Illustrated article came out, and there's no reason to disbelieve any of the sources in that article.

All of it kind of fits. And I think that when it comes to Biennesty, yes, Deshaun Watson admires Eric Biennamy. But I think he would be really intrigued by hiring Eric Vianney, but I don't, I never got the sense that Deshaun Watson wants to handpick the coach. but I thought, I think that the owner told him that he would have input, that he would be listened to, and I don't think he necessarily feels like he's been listened to, and especially because, you know, I don't know how explicit Deshaun would have been in explaining what's wrong with the culture, but it sure feels a whole lot like that when you tell, when you're telling people and you're trying to say, hey, there's a problem with the culture here, and you just bring in the best bud of the guy that, perhaps some people like Andre Johnson think is actually destroying the culture there. He got peeved. And a lot of other people, you know, the Jamie Roots, the team president, is not on stable ground right now.

A lot of people in the organization thought that the Texans were running an actual search and it didn't look like they were. As far as Eric Biani goes, look, Nick Casario, and this is where things get a little nuanced, I like the hiring of Nick Casario as long as they're not trying to import the Patriots way because it doesn't work outside of Foxborough. But he just started working a couple days ago. I think it's now a matter of Nick Casario getting on the same page with Deshaun Watson, working with him, trying to settle this thing down.

It's January 12th. We've got time, you know, before any kind of trade would need to be executed. Do you think it will, though? Like, how, you know, when you see, you know, Chris Mortensen reporting that Watson sees Miami as a destination that he would be interested in. That was the first time that I thought, okay, maybe this has legs. Because it's going to be all up to Watson, how serious he would be unwinding to force a trade.

If they can calm him down and the emotions of the season ending kind of wear away, like it would be insane to trade to Sean Watson. Like, I don't think any, it's not like Nick Tessario, I think, would come in and want to do that. It would be insane. Like it would make, first of all, you'd have dead money on your cap to be getting rid of one of the best five, you know, quarterbacks in the NFL, like Henry is primary. Literally, there's never been a precedent for a trade like that, not for a quarterback that young and that good. So it would be insane. But do you think, like, how much legs do you think it would have for Watson to like stay angry, I guess? That's the question. Okay, is this going to be entrenched? Is it going to take, is he going to feel this way two, three, four, four. months. I think it depends on a couple things. One, I don't know how much Jack Easterby weighs into

Deshawn Watson's personal opinion about this. I know that Andre Johnson and other very just reputable guys that don't whine about much have strong feelings about Jack Easterby. It might be as simple as the elimination of Jack Easterby. I don't know. It's not going to happen. I mean, there's no chance that's going to happen. He just picked, he literally just picked the head coach after here's the thing about the ETHRB stuff. I know we've hit it a lot on this show, but basically everything that we were sort of bringing up

as a supposed conspiracy theory came exactly true. As recently as last weekend, every single reporter, including some on our network who have expressed regret about it, was buying the whole idea that Esterby might not be on solid footing. He might not have any role in the organization

and that he's not even involved with the hiring. So then a day later, they hire the guy that they were hanging out at the Patriots Super Bowl ring party and that they got accused of tampering with. That's his best friend. So, like, no one knew anything. It's clearly Easterby and McNair, you know, has McNair here.

Yes. Yes. You see me waving my head in my hands and shaking my head emphatically. Look, guys, I smelled this a mile away. When Jack Easterby was here within a few months, as soon as Brian Gain was gone, as soon as Jack Easterby got here, Brian, an actual general manager, got fire.

Pearl River native, by the way, Pearl River, New York. That's right. That's right. That's right. As, is it Rockland County? Yes, look at that. So as they're in pursuit, hot pursuit of Nick Casario, I predicted at that time, you know, a year and a half ago, you know what? Jack Easterby will be standing after Bill O'Brien is gone. It's that kind of a scenario. And people thought I was crazy, excuse me, being a conspiracy theorist.

But this is what he does. He sidles up to very important people. and gets them to believe things that just simply are not true. And he creates this distorted version of reality. As far as the Miami thing goes, Greg, to get back to that, I think that it's important to note that Deshaun has not requested a trade. Deshawn, including the people close to Deshawn, nobody has credibly said that Deshawn wants a trade.

I think that he said he'd be amenable to a trade in Miami. me like that would be an okay destination but um it's not at that point yet you can see not to keep buddy but you could see quickly after the watson news came out they interviewed the offensive coordinator tim kelly who he likes that was like a hey Deshawn look at this and now hey we're interviewing eric bian and me like i think they're going to do everything possible to make it up you know in life you've heard about it when couples are in danger uh the relationships flaming out oh, let's, you know, do the Band-Aid baby. And it never works, and it's not good for anybody involved.

A Band-Aid head coach seems similarly flawed, doomed for failure. Let me kind of my last thing to tee you up on here, Seth. I'm going to play devil's advocate, okay? Deshaun Watson, he's a Hall of Fame-level talent. But the Texans in the wreckage of the Bill O'Brien era are so poorly set up for the future right now. Well, who's to say that trading Deshaun Watson for a quarterback like a Tua or a Sam Darnold

and let's say three first round picks. Greg, put your hand down. This is for Seth, this question. Is not actually, although popular opinion wouldn't be with you on this, and clearing up your cap and all the other stuff, is not the best things for the Texans franchise that got as far as it could

with the setup they had and now needs to reboot. I would say this. The Texans came into existence in 2002, well, their first season was 2002. They found Deshawn Watson in 2017, and you had to trade up to get them. And it was a spot in the draft where it's not necessarily a slam dunk. You feel great about it. Nothing is worth something that might take another 17 years to replace.

It's just, I mean, how many, look at the Jacksonville Jaguars. How many times did they have to use draft capital on high picks and swing and whiff on it? So it's a beautiful dream is what it is, Dan, but you can't fall for beautiful dreams like Bill O'Brien and Jack Eastry did trade after trade, signing after signing. If only, hey, remember how good these guys were in 2016? That's all we need is for David Johnson and Randall Cobb and Brandon Cooks and everybody else. You can't fall for that line of reasoning. Right. I mean, Watson's the most important person in the organization.

I mean, he is more important than the owner, at least to fans he should be, because, like, you can get other owners. I mean, you're not going to. But, like, Watson is, to me, irreplaceable. And people act like they're in such a crazy, tough spot. No. I mean, you're missing a couple of draft picks. You got them next year.

Like, you've got some good players. You've got one of the best left tackles. I mean, you've got Deshaun Watson. I just, the thing that Texans fans are worried about, which I understand and they're going to stay worried, is the process to which you got. to this point, if the process is super flawed and the people running that process are flawed in how they got there. And I would put Easterbee and ownership into that. Then that makes you

feel like it's doom. But here's the thing. I'd still keep up, you know, Watson around for the next regime that takes over in three or four years, if this thing blows up, he'll only be 28 years old then, and you still have Deshawn Watson. Yeah. And as far as the actual situation goes, you make a great point, Greg, because look, are there teams out there right now that would trade, the Texans don't have a first and a second round pick right now. Are there teams out there that would say, hey, we'll give you a first and a second round pick and we'll take on Deshawn Watson's contract. We'll take that in a heartbeat. And I'd say half the teams in the league probably would. So the situation is not as dire simply because you have Deshaun Watson.

All right, Seth, I hear an engine idling outside your front door right now. Be careful. Head on a swivel, my friend. Keep up the good work down there in Houston. And thank you for joining us always a pleasure my kidnapping will be live streamed thank you guys there he goes the great set fane give him a follow on twitter and check out all his stuff he's great um you know that's that's a thing about all this that you feel for texans fans because man i just went through it with jemal adams who's a safety uh when you become attached to a star player and he's like the face of your franchise and then you're just holding your breath every morning that the news isn't gonna see thing spiraling further out of control with your star and your team. So it's a time of unease

and Seth has it nailed. So it'll be, I think, one of the top storylines to track this off. Oh, I mean, it's going to, it's going to haunt our podcast every single episode. This is a good one, though. No, it's interesting. Like, Dak Prescott, Dak getting paid, that's going to haunt. That's, that's ponderance. This one at least has some intrigue. I just feel for the Texans fans that aren't going to be enjoying the roller coaster. This isn't a total parallel because the age of the two quarterbacks, is so different, but you could kind of look at what Carson Palmer did when he just got utterly frustrated with the Bengals. He said, I've made enough money. I'm simply not going to play for them

anymore and forced to trade. I mean, I agree with you, Greg, that Deshaun Watson, if he really wants out, he has more power than anyone else. But if you're Nick Casario, you think that you're 45 years old, you've took your first GM job and your first headline move is to remove the team from Deshaun Watson, I think that they're going to do everything they can to prevent it. All right. Good stuff. And thank you again to Seth.

All right. Before we go, I did put out a prompt there to the fine listeners of the around the NFL podcast who, as always, they brought the heat. And I gave them about an hour. I got hundreds of replies for questions here. And by the way, the ATN subreddit, which is a fan run board, just past 15,000 members.

and Ricky Hollywood, who does incredible work over on the ATN podcast on Instagram. That's closing in on 20,000. We want to get over that hump. So get on there. Ricky's always putting up good junk for you to enjoy. So thank you to the fans. Here's our thank you to you. Be involved with the show.

Here we go. Greg Van Popering asks, where will Doug Peterson land? Mark, this feels like to me, again, the unusual circumstances around. a head coach who wins a Super Bowl three years ago for a franchise that had never won in 50 years before that and then gets canned in some type of power struggle. A guy that might land on his feet immediately in another head coach chair, do you see it that way? There are seven gigs here, six gigs for him. I mean, they parted with Andy Reed. They parted with Chip Kelly, and both of those coaches got head coaching jobs right after.

And I would argue that Doug Peterson, there are different types of teams out there. There are different types of ownership groups. And there's a lot to like about Doug Peterson. I believe if you're an NFL owner, there's a little bit of a stink on him. But, Dan, like, there are people that think the way that you do, too, that he probably was a little scapegoated here. I wouldn't put him at the top of the list, but I wouldn't be surprised if he got a job at all. Yeah, I agree. I think he's got a chance.

And if not, he'll be back in the mix next year. It may not be – almost every coach always says that – like, it's not the worst thing to take – a year in between. A gap year. You know, you can work on Fearless 2 when I told Eagles ownership to shove it or something. I don't know. I guess he could say Fearless 2 for winning Super Bowl with the Jets or the Chargers, Falcons.

You don't want to burn that title. Fearless 2, colon increasingly fearless. I kind of like that. Josh Perry, Big J. Powsky on Twitter, asks, how many fingers, and answer this seriously, Mark, how many fingers would Mark sacrifice to Gepard? guarantee the Browns win the Super Bowl this year. Would you give up a finger? There's a lot of this going on, and Mike Rable started this about cutting off a different body part of his.

I wouldn't sacrifice a body part for things like this, no. Okay. And for those that don't know, if you don't remember, Mike Rable said he would sacrifice his dick. I mean, I definitely wouldn't do that. But as our friend Will Brinson said, he'd do that, but he won't, you know, go for it on fourth and two at the 40. That's fair. There are other ways to get there. That's right.

How about a pinky toe, Mark? Sure. Oh, I hate feet and they're like, I don't, yeah, in a minute. You would hate your feet enough to mutilate them. Now that's interesting. I mean, like, who sees my feet? Nobody. So if I had to cut off a toe or if someone's like, why are you missing your pinky toe?

And I was like, well, I did it and ensured the Browns want to, so I'm wrong if I say I wouldn't remove a body part. Not fingers, though. I've known you for a decade, Mark. I don't think I've ever seen your feet. I don't think I've ever seen your bare legs. You're a pants guy. all the way.

I mean, I think I've worn, I don't think we've gone like swimming or to the beach together or something, so that's part of the reason. We stayed in hotel rooms together and in the same room? Hotel rooms and no. I mean, in my hotel room, I will, there will be bare legs. I must have seen them when Mark and I went running by Anderson Cooper at the audience. You did. Anderson Cooper saw them also, so a lot going on there.

All right. Here we go. This from Angus Bell. What do the Seahawks need to do to fix their anemic offense is Schottenheimer the problem, Greg? I think he's the easiest solution is to change out Schottenheimer. I did not like what I heard out of Pete Carroll that his takeaway from the end of the season was that they need to run the ball more and more effectively. They were pretty effective running it. Now, the problem is they weren't effective enough throwing it.

But that, to me, is a coaching problem when you have players as talented as Russell Wilson, D.K. Metcalfe and Tyler Lockett. Zachariah Lewis asks, should the Bears reboot minus Matt Nagy head coach and GM Ryan Pace? This isn't the same apples to apples comparison to what's going on with the Eagles. But me, I hesitate because the quarterback situation was so sloppy for Nagy. Pace, maybe do what you will with Pace, but throwing out Nagy because Mitch Trabisky and Nick Falls stink, I don't know if I feel good about that. I'd reboot the whole thing hardcore because, I mean, well, look it, let's just say definitely Pace. Pace, you charts, a lot of their issues chart back to Pace decisions. Mike Kavanaugh asks, considering how historically bad the Jets are at drafting, how many first round picks would Dan give to get to Sean Watson? good question.

I mean, you've got to stay within reason here, but I would give up to three first round picks to get a 26-year-old quarterback who's on a Hall of Fame trajectory. I think there's almost no offer that I would say, oh, no way in hell. Because, Greg, as you point out all the time, like, these first-round picks are such a crapshoot to start with. There's nothing crapshoot or crappie about Deshaun Watson. Yeah, you could try to finage. some other trade where to get one of those you know get an extra first round pick like you trade down

from the two i guess you'd probably have to include that number two overall pick but yeah three or four whatever whatever it takes what like what is the number where it ceases to be something that you would do greg 10 first round picks for deshawn watson would you do that i mean that's just seems no weird i think the bigger thing i wouldn't want to do is like trade a first second and third for like three straight years. I mean, that's the thing is like, you know, the second round, clear out your whole draft. Right. Are almost as, almost as valuable. But yeah, and I don't think the Jets' draft history should matter here. Like, look, Joe D. had a good thing, but at least, I would give four at least. Okay, there you go. Follow-up question from Ryan. Worst case, in parentheses, realistic

coaching hire for the Jets. That's Marvin Lewis, who came in for an interview and all due respect to Marvin Lewis, the respect that Mark has never afforded, Lewis. on this podcast. Well, Marvin Lewis is an idiot. A co-type, like, hire for the fan base. So Marvin Lewis, I don't care how well he interviewed Johnson family. Do not do that. Jeff Yates asks, depending on who the coach is,

which way do you think Detroit should lean in the Matt Stafford situation? Should they build around him or should they blow that situation up? Mark? The problem with moving on from Matthew Stafford is that who's there. I don't think you start a new coach with, hey, we're going to remove our franchise quarterback. And by the way, it might take 25 years to find another. So I want to know what you're getting in return for Matthew Stafford. And it better be huge and pivotal.

I think Matthew Stafford wouldn't be opposed to a fresh start, though. Milo asks, do you think Cliff Kingsbury, the Cardinals head coach, should be on the hot seat? Now, I write a hot butt column every August ahead of the start of the season. And he is going to be, for me, a little higher up on the list. What do you think, Greg? I don't think so. Because I still look at a team that won eight games in the two years previous and was in a really low place.

And they won eight games last year. So I don't think he should be on a hot seat going into this season. Now if they win four or five games next year, it's like, okay, then you're on it. But they've been on an upward trajectory. I'm glad they asked about Cliff, though, because of all these gutless punts, that we've seen, I never got a chance to mention what I thought was the most gutless punt of the entire 2020 season

when Cliff punted. And I know it was 4th and 20 Cardinals fans. I know but it was at midfield. And the season literally ended with the punt. There was like three minutes left and he had one time out left. And he just decided instead of going for a 4th and 20 down 11, I'm just going to go to the off season. I've never seen a more gutless punt than that. Like I'll try to get a holding call or something. A defensive only call. Like, do something. What is going on? I'll tell you what, Greg. I got it. I'm pushing back on that

because that's bad. Bad job by Cliff, and I think he deserves to be under some scrutiny right now. But Mike Rable, punting on 4th and 2 at the Buffalo 40-yard line, or at the Ravens, yeah. Ravens 40-yard line with Derek Henry

on your football team coming off a 2,000-yard season with your season hanging in the balance. To me, it doesn't get any worse. Mike Tomlin. Tomlin in that category. gory too come on i mean god god dang that was very bad too i don't know what's going to because it was i don't maybe he didn't know he only had one time out which would be equally bad but like it was literally just like okay let's let's all let's go home pack it up i would hate to be a head coach right now though where everything you do there are all these like

whippersnappers on twitter all these like hyper nerds especially gregg well no but everyone is like everyone knows better than the head coach yeah i'm a whippersnapper yeah hey you gregg uh two more questions. This one from Andrew Savory, does Earl Thomas ever sued up in the NFL again? And if not, does he make it to Canton? Greg, this one's interesting big expose on Earl came out this week. This guy is one of the great safeties of this century. And he just seemed to have a personality shift that in addition to his declining play is taking him out of the league entirely at what, age 31. it's crazy i have that article instapapered i want to read it still but it reminded me like oh yeah i forgot i forgot earl thomas wasn't on a team what the what the heck i mean uh it's insane he played well

last year too it's not like he was a dog last year i think people in seattle will say maybe the personality didn't change that much he was kind of uh on his own planet the whole time but you know when you're you know one of the best players in the league you just allow it i think you Instapaper that and catch up on it, great, because some of the things you learn about that tenure in Baltimore tells you a lot. Okay, I need to read it. Why other teams, you know, these coaches, these GMs, they all talk. I think he makes the Hall of Fame, by the way. Sorry to interrupt.

I do think he makes it, yes. And finally, Mark Sessler, a question for you from Drew, Drew Smith. Does Mark intend to carry his Blue Jays fandom into next season, or was it? it's simply a one and done for those that did not follow over the summer, Mark had had a standoff, almost combative relationship with Major League Baseball. But during the pandemic, got behind the Toronto Blue Jays franchise. You're going to run it back this spring. Part of it was that they were in Buffalo for the year. But I went in thinking this could be a venture that's over in 10 days, 10 hours if it was too boring. My issue with baseball is that

it's on every day it's like four hours long so engage me and i found them to be a quite i think i picked the right type of team to latch on to um i'm really in favor of how short that regular season was so that i think the you know the acid test will be am i ready for six months or seven or eight months however long this season goes on for um of everyday observation that will be a heady test but if i am rooting for any team and it's for them uh that so TBD. On the fence again, Sessler. They could be back in Buffalo.

I thought those days were over. The Raptors are in Tampa, so the Canadians are smart enough not to let any of us in at this point, and they're like, they might be back in Buffalo if we're not in any better shape by April. Oh, man. I thought this stuff was all going to be taken care of by 2021. How come that's not the case? That was faulty logic.

Oh, suddenly it's New Year's Eve, and the entire world will be fine by morning. Wouldn't that have been cool, though? That would be cool. Yeah, I guess maybe January 31st. When we hit to February 1st, everything is cool. No doubt. That's how it's going to play out. All right.

The schedule to come in our podcast, Thursday, the preview pod, divisional round. We dive deep on all of those games. I already reached out to Nick Shook. I want to have him involved for the Browns preview. And then Friday, you could check us out on television, the around the NFL broadcast, the television show. That is airing nice, cushy time slot there at 3 p.m. Is that 3 p.m. Eastern?

Well, I'll take it either way. Okay, just check out your local lists. I think it's 3 Pacific, 6 Eastern, and then METI re-airs. I heard from someone very high up in the company that they were, in quotes, stunned by the ratings bump of our show and it may not be the end of better time slots. We did a huge number last week.

And then if you are an overseas listener, I believe you can access that with your Game Pass international login. And then we will be back, of course, Sunday night for the flagship show breaking down all the action. And Mark, that game, the Browns game,

I already checked the schedule. Sunday, the early game. So that will give good or bad you'll have plenty of time to kind of process it before the show begins because that was quite a challenge. One, I thought you handled very well on Sunday night coming on directly after that game against the Steelers. This time you're going to have some process time. Well, it's easier to handle, I guess, a tough assignment about talking about football when the team wins. But we'll see.

I think, you know, like you mentioned, a little house money vibe to it. I'm willing to accept whatever happens this weekend in a different way than I would have a couple days ago. The Steelers, yeah. Shout out, and a happy birthday, by the way, to my son Walker. Sixth birthday today. All right. How about that? Funniest guy I know. The biggest football fan I know now, he's addicted. He was just making lists before last weekend of which games he was most excited about, which teams he hated the most, just a lot of rankings, a lot of lists, I think. It's perfect. This is like a Jack and Joe Buck scenario here. I can feel it. He's going to seamlessly slip right in there for Greg when Greg decides to. Hang up the cleats. He thinks he's going to be a player, but I haven't had the heart to tell.

I haven't had the heart to tell him. There are not many, like, 5, 5, 140-pound players. Let him find that out on his own time. Happy birthday to the boy who will be king of Rosenthal home. All right, that's it. Stan Hans is signing out for Quiet Storm. The old boss, Ricky Hollywood, behind the virtual glass. One, two, Thursday.

Thank you. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Fiorio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

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