NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Coaching Carousel and Coordinator Corner

Episode Date: January 9, 2019

In a room filled with heroes – Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Marc Sessler and Chris Wesseling – react to the NFL’s ‘Coaching Carousel’, including – Cleveland promoting OC Freddie Kitchens to head coach and how this affects Mayfield (2:30), Vic Fannnnngiooo moves from Chicago to Denver to lead the Broncos (10:00) and the heroes make a quick pit stop at ‘Coordinator corner’ (12:10). Will Bruce Arians tenure in Tampa be short lived if he can’t produce quickly (15:00) and heroes, heroes in a studio, is Kliff Kingsbury the most handsome coach of them all [Pete Carroll is pretty fit though…] (19:45)? Next, how will Matt LaFleur help Aaron Rodgers and the Packers organization (27:20), and what are the Jets (33:30), Dolphins (37:40) and Bengals (40:00) doing on the head coach front? Lastly, the heroes take one more spin around Coordinator corner (41:30) before opening up a *small* mailbag with listener questions (43:30)!Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast. Drinks LaCroix like a little B. Welcome. I mean, in today's day and age, too, especially inappropriate. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis. I am joined in a room filled with heroes.

Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosenthal. What is up? You little bitch. Hey, Dan. Well, now we've got to beep you out. It's not so much the drinking of that product. It's just that you put a straw into such a small can. It's a little, you know, extra.

Dan, as they would say. It's a little flourish. Slightly dainty. But I think you're going for that. Especially when it feels orchestrated. When it's that Perry A one or whatever, that's like even a smaller bottle. Like on a scale of 1 to 100, how orchestrated is it to have a little tiny straw in your little tiny LaCroixote.

Are you asking me if it's a manufactured joke? I don't think it's that funny, so I wouldn't call it a joke. Manufactured joke. I mean, it just seems like something that you... Do you care about the environment? Put some thought into. I do.

I use paper shows now. Those are annoying. Gotcha. I'm looking at a plastic one right now. Well, that's Starbucks. That's on that. But today's show. Forget about all that.

Who cares about that? Just how I drink. Let's slide off that topic. We have things to talk about. The NFL, it keeps moving. As we close in on the Super Bowl, it is less than a month away, and we're going to get to the next round of the playoffs, the divisional round on tomorrow's show.

But today's show, our Wednesday show, we will be focusing on the coach's carousel. Because, Greg, it was a little. a quiet, you know, entering the weekend through Sunday, even. And then the last 72 hours or so, we are flying. It was almost as if all the agents and the executives said, let's set up their Wednesday podcast perfectly by dropping all that news right before it. Yes.

So we, as you know, there are eight job openings, or there were. They are filling up fast and furious. In fact, I think there's just, although some things you still have to cross the T's dot the eyes on contract. I think we're only down to three teams, really, Greg, that we don't know who their head coach would be. So we're getting there. Getting close.

And Mark. I thought it was two. Am I off? The Bungles, the Dolphins, and the Jets. Oh, you're right. You're essentially not counting the Bengals as a team. I get what you're doing. Mark.

Everybody forgets about the Bengals. Yes. You ready to get into it? Because we're going to start with your team. Let's do it. Because the Cleveland Browns, just this morning, made it official.

They will promote. Freddie Kitchens They like what they smell in that kitchens And they say keep them around They promote Freddy from offensive coordinator To head coach And because you can't just Especially with the personality involved

You can't have Greg Williams Ascend to head coach And then do well and say All right now you get to be an underling again They say bye Greg Bad day for the triple Gs Greg Greg Williams, after all he did for the Browns in the second half of the season, gets his walking papers. But it makes sense.

But let's focus for now on Freddie Kitchens, Mark Sessler, because you were calling for this for weeks because you loved what he did once he took over for Todd Haley. So you're happy with this move, aren't you? I mean, there's never really been since, and it's so depressing now to go back to like the mid to late 80s to find a relationship in Cleveland where the quarterback and, you know, when he went, Kitchen's was the play caller to now the head coach had a tight relationship that was also creative and thriving. So what bothered me was the idea of breaking that up. I thought this was a very interesting coaching search. One of the more unusual ones in the league where everyone went in thinking, oh, well, Jimmy Haslam is going to make everyone hire Adam Gase because Peyton Manning is his friend and he's in his ear saying Adam Gase is the great guy. Adam Gase never even gets

an interview. Then it's said, well, it's obviously going to be Mike McCarthy because the front office slittered with all these Packers people. And Mike McCarthy doesn't even get an interview. They delayed that. And they could have done that weeks ages ago. So Kitchens, you know, at the last 72 hours got thrust into the role as a very realistic candidate. And then at the end, this Kevin Stefansky thing that blew up, where they brought him in for a second interview. And there was, as early this morning, that, oh, the Browns are doing the most Browns thing. There's an in-house battle based on analytics and more football meathead types, one of them wanting kitchens, one of them wanting Stefanski.

But in the end, you find out, I mean, you're reading that a lot of people were pushing for Freddie Kitchens, starting with John Dorsey, obviously here. So I think they made the right choice, and they navigated what you, a strange pool of candidates compared to other years in general. Jim Caldwell, Dan Campbell, Matt Iber Fluse. I'm happy with it. I don't understand if you're looking, the whole thing is to find someone who can, who shows a skill at calling plays, shows a skill at maximizes.

players like Nick Chubb who had essentially no role before Hugh Jackson left and taking players like that and of course your quarterback in saying let's make this offense as good as it can be they showed vastly different you know capabilities after Kitchens took over why would you break that up and hire another untested play caller or someone else so there's home run for me a home run that's good to hear Mark and you know what it is it's such a great unknown this process he this guy still is an unknown let's face it right yeah he's 44 he's never had a responsibility anywhere close to this. So there is risk to it. You look at a guy like

Jim Bob Cooter who's out on his on his butt now. I was going to say Cooter. He's out on his butt right now. He had his day to shine as an offense coordinator and then that wore off. That's the fear that maybe this was more a quick little flash in the pan with kitchens. That's the fear though. But you can't coat, you can't make this decision based on fear. You had results, which in most cases, people are higher and blind. Cliff Kingsbury, who we're going to get to with Arizona. That's a totally blind hire by the Cardinals that may work out. It may blow up. Kitchens, at least they had this knowledge that he worked well of Mayfield. They were scoring points and they were functional on offense. So I like to hire. There's this cottage industry

in the NFL, think tanks and consultants, agents in the ear of NFL insiders, pushing the right coaches or the ones that get the endorsements. And I thought Joe Banner, former Eagles and Browns president, made a good point. You see guys like Freddie Kitchens and Matt Eberfluse. And I would even extend this to Kevin Stefanski, who did impress the Browns in their interview, guys who come from nowhere and can do the job well. Like, these guys aren't, their name isn't in the news. They're not being propped up for years as coaching candidates. It makes you think.

Who else is out there? Who's a position coach or who's lower on a coaching staff that can do a better job than some of these guys who've been around for years? Like many people, like I went to Freddie Kitchen's Wikipedia page over the last week because I didn't really know much about him. And he was a quarterback at Alabama, which a lot of college fans will know for four years. But he was the quarterback's coach under Bruce Ariens for four years. He was a position coach with the Cardinals for a decade.

It is tough to keep a job in the NFL on the same team for a decade through multiple different coaching administrations. And so the fact that he impressed all those different coaches to keep those jobs, he was tight ends coach, then quarterback's coach, then running backs coach, all with Arizona before he ended up coming with the Browns. It's not like he's a total overnight story. He's been in the NFL for 11 years. And I think Dan's point is perfect is that they do know him better than any of those other candidates. And he's a little different.

Like, I like the way he talks. I like that his wife is named Ginger. I like that a lot. I just see he cuts a different profile than a lot of the head. Ginger Kitchens. A little. That's perfect. I don't even know what that is, but I like it.

Him and Baker seemed like a fun kind of like personality match to. They did talk about it. were so many different people reporting this, that Stefansky and kitchens were so close that they were going to incorporate Baker Mayfield's take on this, and I wonder if that pushed it over the edge. And back to Greg Williams,

I find irony in the fact that Williams caught a lot of flack throughout the season for his hard knocks comment that he had seven job offers on the table when he went to the Browns. And it's funny because Greg Williams will absolutely, in my mind, be a defensive coordinator somewhere. And there are like eight teams, you know, six, eight teams looking for a D.C. right now probably. He might get

seven offers. I don't know about that. He might get it. No. He might get it. He's going to get offers. I don't think he hurt himself over the last two months of the season. The opposite. I don't, but he's a unique personality match whose NFL career would have absolutely ended, if not for Jeff Fisher, who he had such a close relationship with. And that's what the NFL is all about. I'd have to go through the coordinator openings right now and try to figure out a match because I don't think he'll have a lot of offers. He might get one. You're right, Dan. Seven. Just because personality-wise, I don't know how many head coaches are going to feel comfortable bringing

him on. Do you want to put a sandwich on it? That he gets a job? No, because I think you're, I think there's a decent chance. I just, I want to, I would want to look at the teams and think about it. What about he gets seven jobs? Yeah. I would put one on that. He gets seven offers. I won't do that with you. More making the point. He does have more.

of a market now than he does his make-believe market that he had before he got the brown job in my opinion but um all right and yes kevin stepansky by the way a good day for the 60% gs out there we don't want him being the main representative ouch kevin stefansky uh does uh after not getting the brown job he's the full-time OC for the viking so he sticks around there moving on the denver broncos they go in a different direction uh they hire former Bears defensive coordinator, Vic Fasjo, as their new head coach. So in the era where everyone is looking for the next Sean McVeigh, fucks that trend, and he says, I like the guy that's a good defensive play caller,

get my defense back to where it should be. Your thoughts, Wes, on Vig Fajon in Denver. It doesn't really surprise me that John Elway went defense and sort of went against the grain of what's popular in the NFL right now. He went defense with his last hire, And it seems to me that he thinks Gary Kubiak can just come out of the front office, go right back to the sidelines and take over the offense and they'll be fine. But this team has built on its defense, and I think John Elway knows that.

And once it continued to sort of feature the defense is the featured part of this organization. Elway made this comment. He said, I want one side of the ball to be dominant because it's rare that it's both. And I think that this is a movement towards getting back to running that defense the way that he wants it to be. Well, and it doesn't make sense without Kubiak, but Kubiak is the offensive coordinator, and that's a huge hire. I mean, that's, to me, that's partly why they hired Fongio. Wait, do we all have to say there? Well, I mean, totally up to your.

I'm going to get Fangio, because he, he, he, Vangio, who's 60 years old. I mean, that doesn't sound as good. You got to admit that. Yeah. He has as much respect, I think, league-wide and just for the week-to-week game plans that he's come up with, dating back to his days and with the 49ers and now with the Bears. as just about any defensive play caller in the league over the last decade. Like, if you put who's been the best coordinator over the last decade on defense, he'd be in the top five for sure.

And so you're combining that defensive mind with Gary Kubiak, who's up there in terms of offensive coordinators and certainly did a great job when he was with Denver. So as long as Kubiak's healthy, like that's, if I'm a Broncos fan, I feel pretty good about that company. I'm going to throw it over to coordinator corner. Mark Sessler spends a lot of time over there as well as we know. Mark, Gary Kubiak, good buddies with John Elway, probably is hung out in the lobby of the used car lot many times, just shooting the S.

Any concerns if you're Vic Fangio that a Super Bowl winning head coach is now your assistant, and he also happens to be best buds with your boss? I would be a little concerned just because they're totally tight, and if there's issues there, you may not win the push and pull. But I think Fangio, did I say that right? Vic Fangio. I'll leave that to you as well. I mean, that had to be part and parcel for what might be his only shot to be a head coach. These guys are vet. These guys have been in the NFL for 30 years.

They probably know each other very well. Kubiak seems about as much as any head coach I can think of as a relatively ego-free, egoless guy. Not a Machiavellian nightmare. And I was surprised because, like, okay, if your health, why isn't he just become the head coach? And I did ask about it. I heard from, you know, the insiders. He really thought that there's a different health and stress. I believe that.

Oh, 100%. Because he's been in the different roles between coordinator and head coach that he essentially was asking, can I be, I want to be a coordinator again. The Broncos were like, you can't leave. We want you to be our coordinator. But he did not want to be the head coach. He did not want to be considered because he thought that's too stressful. He's been through it before.

What if the Vangio. It's interesting because it's not like coordinators are an easy job. It's harder than 90. Apparently. Apparently, that's what he wanted to do. And that's what Elway wanted too. Because it's like he's not a young man. That's got to be harder than 99.9% of jobs out there.

He said still. Apparently the word is that Kubiak, like you're saying, doesn't want to be a head coach anymore. But Bruce Ariens didn't want to be a head coach anymore a year ago. I'm just saying he's 57. People change. People, their opinions change. He gets back into the sport.

He might get the itch. And what if he starts having conversations with L.A.? Me as a person, if I was Vic Vangio, I'd be a little bit nervous about the other angle because Elway and him are so tight. I'm sure the money side for Kubiak for doing less is probably very good. His friend is going to pay him very well. I'd like to think that the older we get, the less Machiavellian. Right.

Dan would more like able to get along with other people. Dan would be one of those head coaches that would like have sources that buried the other coordinator through the media. I mean, great. Not a palace and drink. Don't be obtuse, Greg. This is a cut-throat business, and there's a lot of backbiting and, you know, all the shop talk going behind the scenes.

That's true. Backstabbing. Doesn't it help that Fangio probably wants nothing to do with the offense on at all? I think Wes is right that. They are all over 50, like, they're 57 and up. I think they're not sweating that as much. It's like that hopefully enjoying, you know. It's like a Jack Nicholson-Morgan Freeman movie going on right there.

Those are great. Let's spin the carousel and move on to another old man relatively compared to what we're seeing in the game. Bruce Ariens, who just brought up, retired, said, my body, my mind. I'll know this NFL sideline business. Went to CBS, went in the booth, didn't like that so much. He got an itch for the game. Ends up getting hired by the Bucks, who have to be, Greg, happy with how this landed for them, because they still, they're conflicted, obviously, about James Winston at this point.

But if you want to get one more shot to see if the number one overall pick is going to fly, how about a guy that loves the downfield bombing attack? Bruce Ariens is another proven tested guy. Not bad. It's a perfect match for Winston's skill set. I mean, they showed, I saw this graph that showed what quarterbacks over the last six years have the highest air yards per attempt per season. and all of the basically there were two players off the charts

and those two players were Carson Palmer under Bruce Ariens and James Winston throughout his career and I think a guy like Ariens probably convinced them that he sees the good parts of Winston in that he seems like a very football smart guy about 95% of the time and he makes some really crazy decisions but he's still 24 years old and has a ton of production it's also a way for Jason Light

who worked with Ariens in Arizona to kind of, this is his last chance. I feel like they are on a hot seat right away because Jason Light is on a hot seat and he's so tied to Ariens, he's so tied to Winston that even though he's signed a four-year contract, it feels like they need to produce quickly

or else this whole thing could get blown up and that is based on the track record of the bucks under the glazers. No one's changed coaches over the last 12 years more than the bucks and the Browns, and they have not made the playoffs in 11 years. So I think the expectations are going to be high, but they should be high with Ariens and Todd Bowles as defensive coordinator.

Byron Leff, which has a play caller and passing game coordinator. That's a nice mix. Apparently, Todd Bowles and the Bears are being inactive. Is that not official? Now they're coming after him. So perhaps Todd Bowles has a decision to make, and I'll say, and we'll get back to Arians, but that's not an easy decision.

Bowles has a good relationship with Ariens we know, and they have some nice players, Wes, on that roster. They are extremely tight. But the bear's defensive coordinator job, that's a good gig. But maybe the deal breaker, Wes, is that Bruce Ariens is a late period Parcell's year-to-year type coach at this stage of his life. Todd Bowles might have a ticket for the big chair if he can get that defense surging,

and then he gets a shot. It's a tricky spot for Bulls because he and Arians are tight. And I do think the buck's defense has more talent than is commonly believed. But you could also be featured as the Bears defensive quarterback. if they can go on a Super Bowl run. And Byron Leftwich could be kind of a head coach in waiting, I feel like to. If it worked really well. The way in which Ariens has built his coaching staffs, I think, is one of the most intriguing in the NFL.

There are only two of 32 coaches who are black. And we're in an era where everybody wants to hire the bright, young, innovative mastermind on the offensive side of the ball. Offensive coordinators are 90% white. Quarterback coaches are just about 100% white. Offensive line coaches are about 90% white. So how do these guys get jobs? I think a guy like Bruce Ariens has gone out of his way to hire minority coaches. He's thrust Harold Goodwin into the play-calling role in preseason games.

Hired a female. And Goodwin's joining him in Arizona too, and Leftwood. Now he's allowing Byron Leftwich to take over the passing game. And I think this is going forward, I'd like to see more white coaches do stuff like this as an avenue toward getting some African-Americans into these jobs. It's going to be a story. Once this carousel stops spinning, we're going to be down to very few black coaches in the league. Where are we on that?

Well, no. I mean, it's what Wes just said exactly because there are studies. Yeah, what is the number we're at? Is it down to one? The Bengals, you know, some of the top candidates there has a chance to be the only team, I think, that has a higher. The Dolphins also Brian Flores has been attached to them pretty closely. So we are kind of waiting,

You're right. It's been a rough season for African-American head coaches. It's the study that you mentioned. It's exactly. It's the Sean McVeigh. Go find the next Shaw-McVeigh. And that pool of candidates is largely Caucasian. And that's an issue.

Let's talk about this some more with Cliff Kingsbury, if that's where we're going next. Yeah. Spin the wheel and head over. Cliff and the Cardinals. Cliff Kingsbury, that's a tough name to say. Gonna have to get used to it. At least for one to three years. Cliff Kingsbury, who was the Texas Tech head coach,

didn't work out, he got canned, takes a job as the OC at USC, a lot of hard things to say here, and then finds out a bunch of teams who are looking for the next Sean McVeigh, wiggles out of the USC deal, moves into an interview process, meets with the Cardinals, the Jets decides Arizona's where he wants the head coach. He is now the new head coach of the Cardinals. Wes, what were you going to say? There's all this criticism that it's such a risky hire. It's not a safe move. Well, who's safe? John Fox and Jeff. Fisher?

Right. Was Steve Wilk safe and he lasted one year because he had a sub-NFL offense? Who cares if it's safe? Right. How about every coach that just got fired? Were those safe or not? If you're an owner or a team president, you're looking around the league and you see Doug Peterson with Carson, Winston, Nick Fools, you see Frank Reich with Andrew Luck,

you see Matt Nagy with Mitch Trubisky, you see Sean McVeigh with Jared Gough. All these guys got immensely better quickly. You also see those four guys' offensive minds come in. and they get Wade Phillips, Vic Fongio, Jim Schwartz. They get some of the best defensive coordinators in the business because nobody's hiring defensive coordinators as head coaches. So there's a much bigger field. If you hire a Steve Wilkes, he fires his offensive coordinator halfway through the season.

You hire Vance Joseph, fires his coordinator halfway through the season. Matt Patricia fires his coordinator after one season. There's just a much better chance. If you're an owner, you're like, why wouldn't I hire the offensive coordinator, have my cake and eat it too? because he's going to hire a great defensive coordinator. People kill Cliff Kingsbury for the college record, and none of us watched any of those games, let's be honest.

But that was a team at Texas Tech where the offense, what he's meant to be good at, was prolific and fantastic. The defensive players didn't go to that team, essentially, and they were losing because of that side of the ball. I mean, he's good at what he's meant to be good at, and they needed to do this for Josh Rosen, who probably has PTSD coming off of last season. one of the worst situations a rookie quarterback could be in.

So you're giving him a shot to be with someone who's creative and new and let that relationship blue. And not a small thing. If you hire an offensive coach, he's going to be there for a few years. You're not going to be changing an offensive coordinator every couple of years. The concern, I think, with Kingsbury specifically, though, is his staff. So what kind of staff is he going to put together? Sean McVeigh had been in the NFL, had connections.

You know, even Matt LaFleur has been in the NFL. maybe Kingsbury does put together a great staff. There's rumors he might hire the Texas state coach as his offensive coordinator that's not as big a hire. We haven't heard about who he's going to bring in. But he's causing a lot of excitement. I was pretty impressed that the Arizona Cardinals changed all their Twitter names to Arizona Cardinals with a K.

I mean, that's buying in, that's branding. Well, that's just stupid. Any other thoughts on the Arizona job before we move on? Oh, he's, I believe Cliff is four years older than Larry Fitzgerald. So another very young coach. Younger than the NFL. I do have another thought. Just his agent's great.

Whoever he is, I mean, the second he lost his job at Texas Tech. A little agent talk? Maybe it's just, maybe Kingsbury is just great at work in the media. Are we an agent corner? Sure. Is that a place? I don't know. On the carousel.

The second he was fired from Texas Tech, there were a number of media insiders who said, wouldn't be surprised if he got some OC, head coaching looks, and he did. They were absolutely right. He takes that USC job, and you have Manish Meta in New York stumping saying, we need this guy. You're hearing rumors that the Patriots might hire Cleef Kingsbury if McDaniels leaves. That's definitely coming from an agent, I mean, please. And that there's just this huge groundswell of like everyone wants this guy.

Maybe he really deserves all the attention, but he's getting represented well. Final thought on Arizona. all of those offensive coaches I mentioned who turned around the program immediately they got a lot of help from the GM in their first year on the job. Les Sneed rebuilt the Rams. Pace rebuilt the Bears.

Roseman is one of the best GMs in the league and Chris Ballard did it with the Colts. So the Cardinals need to go out and aggressively rebuild a barren roster. It's a great division. Just NFC West games are going to be fun between Shanahan, McVeigh, and Kingsbury. And then you have Pete Carroll and the Seahawks

are kind of like the little guy that's a little different. Two comments there. First of all, I feel like Agent Corner would be more like a leafy suburb, right? I would think so. They're making a ton of money

and living. No, not a coldy, like beautiful properties with meticulously landscape front yards, tennis clubs, champagne glasses clinking in the background. Somewhere like, you know, Bergen County, Orange County.

What would be? Trophy wise. Martha's Vineyard. You know, somewhere like a Newport Beach. Not from there. But yeah, certain. parts of Santa Monica, I would say, certainly. Yes. And I would also say

a lot of buzz after these hires that the NFC West has some of the best-looking coaches in the game in terms of a collection. Don't sleep on Pete Carroll. Deb Hansis, my mom has been all in on Pete Carroll since 94. And he has aged like fine wine that man. So don't

just because Pete Carroll's the oldest of the coaches now in the NFC West, everyone's goo-goo from McVeigh and Cliff Kingsbury. He's in great shape, Pete Carroll. If you like an older man. Age. Age. and looks. Carol wins that in a landslide.

Let's see what Tom Nick Bay looks like 30 years from now. Cut that out. A monster is the end. Cut that out, social team. Good luck. Good luck being that good looking in your 60s. Put that on our IG stories, social team. Stand out at your event.

Please don't. And Dan knows what I'm talking about. For the right reasons with the black tucks.com, I do. The black tucks offers the kind of suits and tuxedo styles that would normally be wildly expensive to buy. And you might only wear once west. I noticed you don't have any analysis on that topic. Feel free. On the what to wear to a wedding topic? No, no, no, about the hot coaches.

Oh, I don't really track them like you guys too. West doesn't care about that stuff. I'm all about the pig skin. It surprises me to hear that Pete Carroll's good-looking. It's not in my... Energy. He's got incredible energy. To analyze that.

I just, I'm not good at it. Okay, with the black tucks, simply rent them online so you can blow it out for your big ones. It's like, okay. Take your style of the next level. No, he's being honest. I have no idea if Pete Carroll's good-looking. I'm surprised to hear that. It's not your corner.

He just seems old to me. With the Black Tux's free home try-on, you can see the fit and feel the quality of your suit months before your event. And, Wes, you got at an event, a big old wedding coming up in May. We're all excited. After ordering your suit will arrive 14 days before your event. And if anything is less than perfect, the Black Tux will send you a replacement right away.

See, that's the type of, that's going. the extra mile. Yeah, because we've all rented these things and you're waiting three hours before the event and it hasn't arrived. Yeah, show up. Black Tucks, never a problem. To get $20 off your purchase, visit the blacktucks.com and enter the code around. That's the blacktucks.com code around for $20 off your purchase. The Black Tux, premium rental suits and tuxedos. Delivered. Let's spin the carousel once more. How do you spell carousel, Mark? C-A-R-O-U-S-E-L. Very good. Nailed it. It's a tricky one. Matt Lefleur has a job. And it's a good one. The Packers agree to a four-year contract with the Tennessee Titans' offensive coordinator. He replaces Mike McCarthy. Still on the market. We're going to get to him in a little bit. It's a four-year contract. Greg, with a fifth-year team option per Tom Pelliserro. Leflare. Lefleur. is a man who had a deal with a quarterback that was never healthy

last year in Tennessee. But the offense got better, especially when Derek Henry started having a bigger role. You like this higher for Green Bay? I like that Aaron Rogers with a different offensive head coach. I mean, so it could have been literally anyone. Lefleur is a misdrean.

No, because if it was Bruce Ariens, I have a track record where I would kind of, you know, have a stronger opinion. I don't feel like Lefleur in his one year in Tennessee. I'm going to praise him or kill him too much. He is certainly a guy that's respected around the league. He impressed the Packers in this interview. They didn't even do a second interview despite a pretty wide group of interesting candidates

that they interviewed in Green Bay. And I love that he, it sounds like, we don't know for sure, but it sounds like he's keeping Mike Patton and most, if not all, of the defensive staff, which I think is a huge part of the equation. Yeah, I'm just excited to see what he does. I mean, it shows how quickly things can change in the NFL that he essentially lost his job as a quarterback's coach with the Falcons two years ago. He wanted to stay there. McVeigh ended up kind of giving him a lifeline.

They worked together in Washington. Goes to be the coordinator there. And here he is now as a head coach of one of the best most storied franchisees of the league with the best quarterback in the league. He's a mystery. And we'll find out how much he's absorbed from being next to some of the greatest minds on offense in the last couple of decades. Sean McVeigh, he was with him in Los Angeles, but McVeigh was in golf's ear before the whistle, and when the defense had the ball,

McVeigh was running the offense. So how much was LaFleur doing there? He was with Kyle Shanahan when Matt Ryan was an MVP and the Falcons went to the Super Bowl, and like you said, he wasn't even brought back as quarterbacks coach. Well, that was after Shanahan. Right, to be fair. He wasn't calling the play.

Shanahan was. And then he gets to Tennessee. His starting quarterback has an injury that affects the way he throws the ball and his backup plays in quite a few games. and yet in three or four games with the Titans this year, my notes were this coaching staff is coaching its ass off with very little talent. So I'm intrigued by it.

I just don't know quite who Matt LaFleur is. He was put in a tough situation, obviously, with Marcus Marietta's shoulder, dealing with Blaine Gabbardt, half the season. My one thing with this job, specifically, you could argue, and many have, that it's the best opening and the presence of Aaron Rogers gives you a chance for immediate success. But the last two seasons show us that the Packers have issues beyond Aaron Rogers.

And there is this notion that's, you know, you fix the Mike McCarthy part of it. The next coach should just take Green Bay right back to where we thought they were, this NFC title game and the Super Bowl and finally deliver on Aaron Rogers' potential. It's like there's a lot of pressure. And I don't think this is a Super Bowl team right now. I think there's talent, though. I think there's more talent than maybe any of the other vacancies. It's certainly up there.

I think Patton needs to do a better job. I mean, they had a ton of injuries. but ultimately the defense wasn't any better than it was under Dom Capers. I feel like the football cognizcenti will stop making assumptions about the Packers after the last two years. I don't think there will be an assumption going to next year. Oh, they'll be definitely in the mix for the Super Bowl because I think they've now proven that there's worked. I will wait and see on that one. But I'm just saying, I think that there's work.

I mean, that offense, let's be honest. I mean, I think there's 12 teams that are 12, 15 teams before the season that have a shame. and if you have Aaron Rogers and some talent, and they've got some great talent. There's a difference between a chance and being a favorite. Yeah. But I don't know if they should,

it would be wrong, I think, to install them as favorite. The automatic NFC again after what we saw. It's a good division. And they need to improve around Aaron Rogers. Just from a personnel standpoint. One thing that we saw in the last probably half decade of Mike McCarthy was an inability to find a consistent running game.

And it was just like, we're going to put all this on Aaron Rogers. Well, Matt LaFleur comes from that rollout offense where everything's based on boot action and play action. Those are the guys he knows. And then you saw him midway through the year in Tennessee put the offense on Derek Henry when he needed to. And I think you're going to see a lot more Aaron Jones in Green Bay.

One final note. Every time Greg speaks in our studio here on the door is a pasted head. I know I hate that. I'm taking that down. It's happening to me every day. I am having the worst podcast experience I have ever had because I keep thinking that there's a human looking through the door at us and judging us. I mean, I didn't put it up.

Wow. Crumpling it in my face. Dan got up, got rid of it. It is a little. Every time I turned to my right to set Greg up or have a conversation, there was a disembodied Jared Goff. Right. And that had to go.

So three men in a baby scenario with the other human in the picture. That was a deep callback, but I got the ref and I liked it. It, it, this, nice pop culture rep. This Lefleur hire is a reminder, Mike Shanahan's one of the most influential coaches of the last 30, 40 years. Offensively, there's no doubt about it. And the fact that he had Kyle McVeigh and LaFleur all together

and just the schemes and the offenses that he would come up with on a weekly basis. Bill Belichick always said he thought he was the toughest play caller and coordinator to go against. He wasn't necessarily the greatest that like running an entire team and being a general manager, but he is one of the greats. There will be a black sheep in this bunch.

They're not all going to sort of the end of the NBA. But I just mean that his influence and his offensive style, I think time has borne out how influential it is. All right. So those are the five teams that have a new head coach in place. Let's spin through quickly the three teams that are not connected to a head coach at this point. We'll start with the Jets because Mike McCarthy is the former coach of the Packers. and it might have been what we refer internally as agent porn,

but it came out yesterday. I've never heard anyone refer to that. What? Agent porn? Asian porn? No. Agent. Agent porn.

I've never heard anyone say that. What? You said we refer to that internally as agent porn. I think you texted that yesterday. I texted that to you. Oh, did you? Oh, okay. But that was about Cliff Kingsbury.

Yeah. Did you notice how I noticed that you texted that, but Greg clearly said that. scanned over whatever you were. Yeah, I'm learning that Greg did respond, but I think Greg was just like, I'm going to respond. Yeah, Dan's just stirring the pie. I don't know if you know me yet,

but all my memory lasts about 45 minutes after that. Why is that, by the way? Is there a reason why the memory maybe isn't there short term? I don't think. You're not an old man. I don't think that is a fair question. I don't think that's a fair question. It's been like that my whole life.

My mom's like, there's no outside facts. I just try to like, attribute it. Here's what matters to me is my relationship. and the moment around me, and I'd have nothing left in my brain for anything else. That's a man living in the present. Mark, a quick explanation before I get into it.

What is agent porn? Not Asian porn, agent porn. In this case, it was... Not Kingsbury, the general, what is it to you? To me, what is agent? What I sent to you guys was a text or a tweet where a certain candidate, in this case, Cliff Kingsbury, was raised up to such heightened levels

and the words used were so flowery about someone that's never won an NFL game that I thought that there was a servicing of someone's agent going on in that ancient porn. Let the record show. I responded first to it. You did. But then it just disappeared, like a goldfish. Just forgot the phrase. I forgot the phrase.

Anyway, ESPN reported on Tuesday night that Mike McCarthy isn't pursuing any other head coaching job than the Jets opening, which just seemed to me like a nice little neat repositioning for Mike McCarthy as people to remind the Jets, hey, we love you, baby. And also, well, we don't even want any other job, even though Mike McCarthy didn't seem to have a lot of interviews lined up. Well, the other jobs are all taken except for the Dolphins and Bengals,

who he was not involved. The messaging makes Mike McCarthy look like a completely focused individual who knows what he wants and give it to him. But the reality is a little different. I could be dead wrong about this, has been one of the most easy to see through plans as far as getting somebody hired. Tell everyone that you don't really need a job and you might sit out 2019 and revisit the coaching thing in 2020. That's your story that you're telling everyone for a week.

And then when you look like you're going to be the last one at the dance, you don't have anyone to go out there and dance with, okay, we really only want the Jets job, because that's really, five of them are gone now and we might not get any other one. Well, they're looking at some interesting name, Baylor's coach Matt Ruhle, definitely in the mix. according to Rich Samini of VSPN, New York, and it seems to be the name that might be looking a little buzz here. That's Daniel Jeremiah's favorite candidate. There are a lot of college people that would put Matt Rule ahead of Cliff Kingsbury.

He's got that Kingsbury pop in that people inside the game seem to respect him. He's a young, upcoming guy. He's from New York. He has a little bit of NFL experience and has done a nice job. Like Bruce Ariens, a former Temple coach. There you go. And I have a bailer tie through my wife and my father-in-law, Bob Bates, is way into the bailer bears. And under rule, they have transitioned from the wide open spread attack of RG3 and Bryce Petty to a pro-style attack.

So he has the type of knowledge of the game that would transfer to the NFL. We'll see with that guy. Also, Eric Bianami, the Chiefs Offense coordinator in play with the Jets. So we'll see. I feel like that something's coming very soon with the Jets. What about the Dolphins? What are you hearing about the dolphins great? Well, there hasn't been much.

There's still some lingering buzz whether the dolphins would try to present the Ravens with an offer. They couldn't refuse in regards to John Harbaugh. Pro Football Talk has written a lot about that. Other than that, the name in Miami that they think is the strongest is Brian Flores, who is not the Patriots defensive coordinator, but essentially has those responsibilities for them, been a linebacker coach for them, has a really interesting. backstory and just seems to be you know when when owners talk about like we want a leader of men he

seems like one of those guys who definitely connects with with his players and he might he might be the guy I mean I guess that it has to be stated that you want a leader of men well as opposed there's different styles of that I think though like Bill Belichick is not someone you would you would say that's not the first thing that you bring up you bring up his game plans you know same with Kingsbury perhaps yeah I think guys love Belichick yeah right but you You know what I mean, kind of just like. It should be requisite. That's what people miss about McVeigh, that he's really good at that part of the job, and it's not just that he's a mastermind on offense. And I think it's the priority you put on it.

I don't think that Kingsbury is being hired because he's a leader of men. I think it's because of his work with quarterbacks. I think whoever takes this job, though, I mean, this is a team that's in the zone of almost tear it down to rebuild, and it's not going to be an easy path. And the other name that comes up is Chris Rashard, who also his players, Byron Jones talked about Chris Rashard of the Cowboys, is destined for greatness. Jalen Smith said that right away sends something so totally different. So I guess both good candidates, but this is not an easy team to take over right now,

and it starts at the top. Forrest seems like a really intriguing candidate, but man, Stephen Ross cannot get out of this AFC East thing where he's kind of just endlessly taking people off the Parcells tree and Tannenbaum. And I don't know. If I'm a Dolphins fan, like getting, it just seems like more of the same. But he also, who knows, might be the next great young coach. Wes, why does it feel like from the outside not tracking it too closely

that the Bengals are the only team that aren't even searching for a head coach? Well, sometimes people forget that they're a franchise. I think that's part of it. And the way they run things. I mean, they haven't exactly been in the news, you know, hunting, it seems. But I'm sure there's something going on. They're slow to make maneuvers in generally, in general. There's no huge, well, I guess there is a rush because you're,

They, Marvin Lewis wasn't the first Cincinnati coach to stay a lot longer than most people expected. They are slow to make moves on all fronts. I mean, they seem like they're lined up. Vance Joseph seems like their guy almost at this point, which is how do you, I don't know how you sell that to a fan base. Their interviews have been in-house, Bill Laser, Darren, Darren Simmons, their special teams coordinator, and Hugh Jackson got an interview. Right, but to their credit, if you want to criticize, they are taking a really wide berth here.

They interviewed Eric Bienomi, they interviewed Shane. Waldron. Zach Taylor? Zach Taylor. They interviewed Todd Munkin. I mean, I think they've had eight or nine interviews. So those are all offensive minds. The two guys from the Rams, Taylor and Waldron, and then Munkin, those are some of the

intriguing offensive minds. And like you said, Hugh Jackson, Vance Joseph's a defensive guy. They've interviewed some defense. This can't be a team where there's any referendum to, you know, you're going to stick with Andy Dalton for seasons one through how many more. There has to be an open-minded approach to new quarterback. It feels like Vance Joseph has it. At least from what, you know, Ian and the different insiders,

if you had to guess Vince Joseph might be the leader in the clubhouse. How do you sell that? It's tough to guess what Mike Brown's going on. How do you tell that to Bengals fans? No one knows. It's not credit size before it happens. Right. I don't trust any reporting about what's going on.

Right. No one knows. One more trip to coordinator corner, Mark Sessler, and I hope you're safe. Josh McDaniels is staying put with the Patriots. his word is his bond it's solid as oak so absolutely he's staying there isn't he yes I always felt that for him

that it was the Packers or not I don't think that he would have trusted the situation in Cleveland there were whispers about that that there was some mutual interest but for me it felt like Packers are bust and why not stay in New England you'll still be a name

next hiring cycle whether you should be or not I mean you have a pretty good job Mark you know I do I can't hear you guys over the din. I mean, it feels dangerous. You have a pretty good job. I feel like you should move out of this neighborhood at this point. You know, when you're a reporter that deals with certain neighborhoods,

you become ingrained and interwoven with that community. You represent the street. They trust me and I trust them. I got you. Dirk Cutter going back to the Falcons also, Mark. Are you okay with that? Or is that, you know, Mike Malarkey's going there, too. What's going on?

When he ran their offense from 2012 to 2014, two of those years, they finish seventh and eighth. I think the thing, this for me, tracks back to one thing. And I think there must be a trusted and, you know, wanted relationship with Matt Ryan that goes both ways. I don't know why you do it otherwise. It's not the most inspiring hire based on what we think of Dirk Hutter in general. But his offense in Tampa Bay was not the issue.

It's fine. I have a lot to say, but I want to save it for our upcoming fresh off the wire video we're taping after this podcast that's about malarkey. and Cutter, returning. And you can find that at NFL.com slash videos slash around the NFL. I want the, if you watch this video, you will be the first people to ever watch these videos.

So check it out. It's like, here's the good news, fans of our show. We're going to give you more and more content. The bad news, we're going to make it harder and harder for you to find it. It's like an egg hunt. If you want to hear Wes's trench and takes on the week 17 players of the week, go check it out. there you go hey before we leave i did send out a mailbag prompt from the around the NFL

twitter handle um start with you on this one mark now that the brown this from ryan heel now that the browns got their head coach who would mark like to see is the dc an older former head coach a la wade phillips or a younger dc candidate bill bellichick he's taken bill parcels he's old and retired um nobody really jumps out no to be honest like I would want someone that's not going to, you know, get, I want someone who's not going to fight with the, with, with,

with, with, with, with, you don't have a pipeline to all the best linebackers, coaches in the NFL. Yeah, it just seems like the,

you know, you're starting to scratch on this. The safe answer, just say, Pepper Johnson. There's some shared DNA there. Remember, Kitchens worked under Bill Parcells. Wes.

It could be Parcells. This from Kael, Galem Leslie, which one of the hires do you think has the biggest chance of backfiring? Do you think there's a real chance of, any of them are out of a job again in 12 months. I think, honestly, that the Bruce Ariens hire has the best chance of backfiring because of his health issues.

And if something happens and then you have inexperienced coaching staff behind him, I think that's how you end up with three and 13 teams. Well, and he said in his first comments, the whole thing, the whole franchise will be built around James Wins. That's the other reason. You're counting on that to work. That makes also James Winston one of the biggest winners of the offseason, but it also means if he continues to be the guy he's been for the last four years,

you're right back where you started. All right. Good job. Good mailbag, guys. Do you want one more? One more. I mean, two feels a little light. Less than a mailbag.

I thought you tried to keep these shows tight. It's like a male bag. I thought you guys are going to just go back and forth. I mean, I'm thinking of like someone carrying like a heavy bag of mail like West. used to around the streets of all to come up with that's more

I like I like it was a good job I was my answer as well yeah all right vamp a little bit

Mark let me find one more Greg how you doing over there hello my baby hello my darling did you know Lafleur

is French for the flower Ah Matt the flower it's like we've never podcasted before yeah this is really right

this is cut territory there may be you know post show yeah yeah we the Arter who

his handle. Do you say B, Arthur? Pietre. P-I-O-T-R. Peter. At I survived O-N-16 with Jim Bob Cooter out in Detroit, who's likely to replace him? Jed Clampett, John Boy, Walton, Bo Duke, or a member of the Country Bear Jampery. Oh, I see.

You got Wes. That was good. That was good. Yeah, I was like, how do we know? Jed Clampett is the answer. Petre has got some chops. Last question. Real question.

Greg Todd Rice asks, what does the hiring of Bruce Ariens mean for the quarterback situation in Tampa Bay? You feel better about James Winston there is a long-term option. No doubt. The way that Ariens talked about it on Wednesday is that they're all in with James Winston.

So if you believe in James Winston, like I do, that he still has a chance to be a good starter. He's solid. That he can be better. The opposite of solid. That's fair. It's also the GM picked and the GM is still around. There was a reference.

rent him to keep using James Winston, who's had more turnovers than anyone in the league since he's been drafted. It all makes sense. But he also has accomplished a lot for a four-year, you know, in his rookie contract. There's been a lot worse. Put it that way. All right. There you go. Thank you for everybody. It's sent in questions. We will be back tomorrow with our divisional round playoff preview. Now, I said wild card weekend is one of the best weekends of the year in the NFL. The best weekend is divisional playoff weekend because you got Every game is featuring heavy hitters, especially with that tomato can Pats game no longer an issue like it's been in past years. We've got a real game up in Foxborough and everywhere else that professional football is played on Saturday and Sunday. How about that?

I agree with you, everything you said. Best divisional rounds since we've been doing the show, I'd argue. I'd have to study the past years. Let's see how the results come up. Well, there's always been a couple like, this game is going to be an epic blowout. Oh, Tim Tebow's playing the Patriots. this is not going to go well. I forgot about that one.

Yeah. No, this, everything seems like it will lead to great football, which will mean we're going to see a bunch of horrible blowouts. We just jinxed it. Well, we'll be there in person for Rams Cowboys Saturday night, and then we'll be taping our recap show as normal Sunday afternoon. Very exciting. Okay, this is Dan Hansa signing off for Quiet Storm,

the mailman, the old boss, and the great Ricky Hollywood behind the glass. She's nervous. She's real nervous About the past Nah Till Thursday This is an I-haired

This is an I-heart podcast This is an I-heart podcast Thank you.