NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Coaching Roundup: Gannon, Stefanski and Carroll are Gone, Who is Lucky to Stay?

Episode Date: January 5, 2026

On 'Black Monday,' NFL management braces for a shakeup. In 2026, the casualties include the Arizona Cardinals parting ways with head coach Jonathan Gannon, the Cleveland Browns keeping GM Andrew Berry but dishing HC Kevin Stefanski and the Las Vegas Raiders letting Pete Carroll go after one season. Gregg Rosenthal and Nick Shook deliver news and analysis for every major change around the league, with plenty of predictions and debates along the way.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Welcome to NFL Daily, where maybe Nick Shook has some dead money with the Browns right now. Everyone else does. I'm Greg Rosenthal. And I'm here in the Chris Wesleyan podcast. I guess, no, I'm not. I'm at home.

I'm just used to saying that. Man, Nick Shook, it's here on a day we don't look forward to. So it's what used to be called Black Monday, the artist formerly known as Black Monday, but we can call it that. No one's really paying any attention anymore. And I mentioned the Browns because Andrew Barry is still employed by the Browns, despite a ton of contracts for players that weren't good this year and won't even be on the roster next year, but he survives.

And so I didn't know if, you know, your contract back with the Browns back in the day, maybe it's still going on. Maybe they're still going on. I didn't make enough money with them to even register on some sort of backed pay owed. Trust me. Your cap figure wasn't huge. They weren't like voiding extra years or anything like that. I mean, you want to tack on some void years and give me some, you know, look, the best job is to be a college football head coach and get fired after two years into a five-year deal because then you get paid millions for the next three years.

They want to do that for me? By all means, you know, backdate it. I'm down. Okay. I think you'd make a good coach. You'd be a good leader, amen. But for now... I'm a bad teacher, but thank you.

You're one of the leaders of NFL Daily, and we're going to go through the news of the day. Essentially, the coaches that have been fired, the GMs that have been fired, the guys who were retained a few odds and ends, eventually some injury stuff. But let's start with the guys that are gone. Right now, we have six head coach openings.

I don't know if I said it on our show, but it looked going into it, that like six and a half was the over. under. We could always have a surprise shake loose a little later. I'm going to go in the order of surprise. So let's start with the Cardinals because Jonathan Gannon being fired does not surprise me. We've been talking about it on the show now for a minute. But the insiders were continuing to hammer this story that he thought he was going to be safe, that he was safe. And in the end, he did lose his job after three years. Monti Assenfort, the GM, who

helped to hire Gannon, who came at the same time, will remain. I watched a little bit of that press conference. And there's a lot that was interesting here. But I just want to get your kind of overall thoughts on Jonathan Gannon losing at the end of a tough season for the three and 14 Cardinals. Yeah, a really tough season for a team that started 2 and 0. But when you lose 14 of your last 15, you're basically doomed. Like there's, you know, no matter how close you lose lose these games, it is a results-based business. That is going to be the defining theme of this entire episode. It is a results-based business. And unfortunately for Jonathan Gannon, his team did not produce the results that mattered most, which was wins. You didn't need to stack a bunch of

them. You only needed a handful more to probably save your job because this team, the defense finally came around. And that's his forte, his defense. They were much better on that side of the ball. But they did not finish games well. Until they weren't. Not late in the season. I got to stop you were. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. They did cave in. They also had some injuries, especially in the secondary that they were dealing with, as most teams do. But they didn't finish games. They lost so many one score games. There was that whole stretch earlier in the season where they were losing one score game after one score game after one score game. He had the quarterback dysfunction with Kyler to Jacoby-Berset. There seems to be a bit

of a lack of direction on that side of the football. It bums me out because I could have signed up for another year of Jonathan Ganon because of the defensive strides they made at least earlier in the season, but I also can totally justify the fact that they fired in when you lose 14 of your last 15 games. It's why I just never bought the insiders on this one, because you start losing games by as much as they were. He finished 15 and 36 overall. I think for that amount of games, you know, he was in the bottom five percentile of all coaches hired. Like that, you just, it's not going to happen.

Kyler Murray was an interesting part of the press conference. The Jonathan Gannon Cardinals went 13 and 17 with Kyler Murray over the last three years. in two and 19 without Kyler Murray. Despite that, it really seems like Kyler Murray is done with this organization. Monti Ossonfort was asked about their quarterbacks in the press conference. You know, as it pertains to Kyler, you know, Kyler's under contract, Jacoby's under contract, Keaton, Slovis is under contract. You know, we just came off the last game of the year. And less than 24 hours ago, we just left the field. And so, you know, there will be a time and place for those discussions.

You know, I think when you come off a season like we have, you know, I'd say all options are on the table. So I really thought it was fascinating. We was like, we didn't ask you about Kadan Slovis. Keaton Slovis, yeah. He bounced around in college a couple different places. I thought that was funny that he was even mentioned there. Just throw all the quarterbacks in there.

I'm not familiar. We didn't ask you about Jacoby, by the way, either. We asked you about Kyler. and then he put them all on equal playing ground. You know, Caden Slovis and the guy who you went to Oklahoma in a big show to show how much you supported him as the new management, like, when you came in. So they tried to follow up with him a little later too. And one thing I noted was how he said, you know, Kyler, you know, we had some issues there,

you know, finishing games. And Jacoby played well for us. And I was like, okay, it's as clear as can be that he's pointing out that he thought Jacoby played pretty well. So it wouldn't surprise me, actually, if Jacoby Brissette is back plus another quarterback, but there is every reason to believe that Kyler Murray will be on the trade block and a really interesting option. I think I'm not buying a ton of Kyler Murray stock, but I'll take some of it if people

are selling at a low price that maybe he could have an interesting second part of his career. It's not going to be with the card. Yeah, I think it matters about fit. And we'll obviously tackle that as they explore their options in the trade market and everything else or if they want to cut bait entirely. I believe that contract is actually, they could pretty much manage the cap hit if they were able to cut him. I know two is a different story when it comes to cutting guys.

So, yeah, it's, we knew this is coming. I mean, Kyler basically got soft benched earlier this year. And it seemed as if, you know, Gannon was coaching for his job. But they also understood that the offense performed better with you, Hobie Purset, which is damning. evidence for Kyler Murray because look Jacoby Verset for as much as he's a reliable backup has a very visible ceiling your offense should not perform better with your backup than your starting quarterback unless your starting quarterback does not fit what you're going to do now we're entering an

offseason in which Monte Austenford has to hire a head coach and figure out what they want to do and that's going to you know marry with the head coach in their vision as well so you kind of can't put the cart before the horse but there's a lot of questions for them to answer so Kyler Murray has only one year left of guaranteed money it's quite a bit but it's not crazy it's 36.8 million dollars. It's like for one year of Kyler Murray and not a long-term commitment, there is another year on his contract after that. That seems fine. And you're right, they could cut him and basically have face no cap it. They could also trade him even for a minimal price and they would save $35 million against the cap. So they'll be motivated to find

a price for him. He will absolutely have a market. I think there is no question. It's just whether he wants to, you know, really control the process and negotiate where he's going to go almost force his release or if there's a team out there willing to trade something for him that he would be down to go to. So we'll have to see. And watching this press conference was a reminder. And this is going to be a theme on this show. We're going to talk about your Browns Day. It's always better to be the guy sitting next to the owner in the owner booth. It's to be the guy on the field because, man, Michael Bidwell and Austin for it. just kept defending how good the roster was, that we think it's a really good roster. And the reporters really pushed back on that. Like, you haven't drafted a pro bowler. Are you really happy with Marvin Harrison and Darius Robinson your recent first round picks?

Like, why are you so happy with this roster? And they went through the reason a lot of young players are, you know, playing for them, yada, da, da, da. But it just is a reminder, it's better to be that GM. So let's go to the Browns, actually. We know, and if you're watching or listening to do this, I'm sure you know by now. Kevin Stefansky is gone.

Andrew Berry, the GM, is staying, which to me was the most notable part of this, because I really believe the correct move would have been to start from scratch. And if for some reason you wanted to split the baby, as they say, like, I'd be keeping Stefansky, not Andrew Barry. As a Browns fan, what were you feeling when you found out this is how they chose to So I have a lot of thoughts on this because I had friends hitting me up as soon as the Browns game was over yesterday. Where is the fired Stefansky tweet? Like where is the report?

Why isn't it not here yet? And I pushed back against it because I felt like with this team. Kevin Stefansky, yes, he won coach the year twice. He also was asked by this organization to turn water into wine on multiple occasions. And he did one year. 2023, he made the playoffs with five different starting quarterbacks. He got a big stroke of luck with Joe Flacco showing up and still being able to sling it. but he also, you know, crafted the offense around him and enabled that to happen.

In the last two years, he has not been afforded those same opportunities. All of this goes back to the Deshawn Watson trade. I could say this till I'm blue in the face, but they handed a guy who is an offensive-minded coach, a broken offense, a lack of personnel that only got worse over the last two seasons and expected him to, what, extract blood from a stone here? Like, what are we doing? You're not going to win games with the offensive roster as it was constructed. The offensive line was getting old.

You didn't have anything at quarterback. Nick Chubb aged out. You drafted two running backs. You didn't have any talented receiver. The Jerry Judy contract was an abomination. None of this has worked except for their tight ends that they had. And yeah, okay, tight ends can be a rookie quarterback's best friend, but you had two rookie quarterbacks and Joe Flacko this year.

Of course you were going to lose a bunch of games. You're setting him up for failures. So to make him the scapegoat, I thought was unfair. I also think about the immediate reaction that was going to follow Kevin Cephancy getting fired, which is exactly what happened today, which is he's now a top candidate to get hired somewhere else. could be a front runner for the Giants and for the Titans. G, if you're the Browns, a team that wants to make a change

because you haven't won many games over the last two years, you'd think that you would maybe keep the coach that two teams are instantly going to be listing atop their wish list. There's so much to this. And I feel like if you're going to hold anybody accountable, you do it with the GM who gave you this, you know, badly constructed roster who maybe had his own hands tied when the Browns traded for Deshaun Watson

and robbed this front office of three first round, picks. How do you keep a team competitive when you don't have three first round picks? But Barry is more responsible than Kevin Stefansky. Yeah. And everyone likes to point that out. Oh, the Deshaun Watson trade isn't their fault. The ownership made them do it. And this kind of recognizes that. Well, first of all, Andrew Barry and Kevin Stefansky, but especially Andrew Barry, when they brought Watson in. They're all up out there on the podium, telling all the reasons why. And I'm sure they were part of the conversation when ownership wanted to do it. It's not like they weren't consulted. It's not like if they didn't think it was a good fit,

not as for what he did off the field and the culture and the fact that he was facing a league suspension, but even just a schematic fit coming off of an injury, they could have stood up and do that. So I don't buy that at all. But let's put Watson over to the side. There's a pretty strong case that Andrew Berry is one of the worst general managers in the league. if you just ignore Deshaun Watson entirely. In a year where they needed a bunch of players, I know they got a great draft hall, and that's what saved them.

They even cited that in the press release. And the kicker. Don't forget the kicker. Can't forget about the kicker's improvement. That was a big feather in Andrew Barry's cap. He had a great draft at non-premian positions, but a great draft. I'm not going to argue with that.

But he's had five drafts, right? And here's what else he did. that has nothing to do with Deshaun Watson. Here are some players that they are paying next year that are literally not on the roster next year. David and Joku, kind of a relative bust in terms of self-scouting. Keep just paying them and paying him.

New contract. Maybe not a bust, but I don't think he's lived up to the money. $24 million cap hit next year. He's not on the roster. Wyatt Teller, $10 million cap hit next year, not on the roster. Ethan Postick, $5 million cap hit next year, not on the roster.

Joel Betonio, $9 million roster next year, a cap hit next year, not on the roster, probably retiring, a great one, an all-time round, good for him. Jerry Judy's contract, you mentioned, a disaster, one of the worst wide receivers in the league this year in terms of his consistency and his drop. Jack Conklin's contract, that's not really looking at that good. They just excited at him, too. Guy can't stay healthy. Like the oldest, most expensive, offensive line, and this was all.

self-scouting. Those guys were in the building, and the problem I have with very more than anything is they held on to try to win these last two years because they were kind of win now years or else we're going to get fired. They had the most expensive roster in the entire NFL the last two years. I know Watson's part of that. There's other expensive quarterbacks in the league. He's not the only one. They have the most expensive roster and they won eight games. Like, what are we even talking about here? I think I'm extra annoyed because he's mystery analytic, but in terms of like his decision making, the process hasn't been good and the actual decisions haven't been good. So it's just crazy. Yeah, correct. He's got to help to

and he's got to have the thing where whoever comes in next year, unless they win right away, everyone's going to want Andrew Barry fired. So then it's like you're back in the same cycle. Yep, absolutely. And what you have is a bit of confirmation that's happening here, confirmation bias on the part of the front office because they have to confirm that they made the right decisions by, you know, extending guys and that sort of thing, keeping their own. oh, we're homegrown talent, that sort of thing. But really what you have here is new age Mickey Loomis. Nobody loved void years in the NFL more than Mickey Loomis when he had Drew Breeze.

And now nobody loves void years more than Andrew Barry. He's been doing it with Watson's contract restructuring every year. He's been doing it with a number of other guys to get everything under the cap and try to stay competitive. And eventually it buries you. And pun unintended with his last name being Barry, different uses of Barry. But yeah, it's not a good situation. And, you know, I got to push back on. one more thing, too. Not on what you said, but just on this whole decision and the fact that

Kevin Cefansky was essentially scapegoated for being put in an unwinnable situation, the discourse that also follows this well outside of this podcast, that it's somehow related to Shador Sanders. Like, Shador improved. I didn't even know that. Very just marginally, you know, game by game by game, showed improvement, but very far from being a confirmed future at quarterback, right? If you kind of went throughout the reaction to Sifanski being fired, everybody liked to, not everybody, but a lot of people like to pivot it back toward, he didn't develop his quarterbacks. He really robbed Shador of his, you know, the mismanagement of Shador and the way that they handled quarterbacks this year. That's what cost him his job. That had

nothing to do with his job. The fact that he got fired was because he didn't win enough games. He was given that room and tried to make the best of it. So let's not pivot that towards Shador, even though I know it's going to get to clicks and everything, but that just really drove me nuts because I'm like, we're missing the point here. Oh, I didn't even know that that was an entire fire. That's insane. I would say Shador, I'm evaluating his story as a a rookie and development and how it relates to C-Fancy, I think it was like solid. It's like a C-C-plus. You have a late-ground guy who started games, who showed some promise, who's a developmental

quarterback. He's not likely to be competing for the starting job next year unless he was like a big underdog. But if you find a guy that you think might be like a long-term backup or better, and he certainly has a chance to do that, he showed flashes like, that's fine. Well, what hit me yesterday when watching the Cardinals right after watching the Browns, Shador could be like Jacoby Percette plus in his career. And that's totally fine.

That's a long career. That would be a great outcome. Yeah. Zofansky's winning percentage, by the way, Bill Barnwell pointed this out, was somewhere around 450 in the end, I think. Every other Browns coach combined since the 2.0 started is around 300. And there was only one playoff appearance before Stavansky. He got two.

So ultimately, he did well. And yeah, he might get a job. He might even benefit from not taking one of these jobs and having that year off. Because I think he should be a head coach that feels comfortable enough to think I will get another job at some point. And sometimes the year away helps. Pete Carroll last offseason was not one of those guys. He knew. Actually, let's listen to Andrew Barry.

We just buried him for a while. And we got this clip that our producer, Chris Bobona, worked hard on getting him. So let's listen. Coming into this season, we were realistic that, you know, we were a team and a roster in transition. And ultimately, this decision is born from the fact that we've ultimately felt like we did not see enough progress in areas that were controllable, independent of certain game outcomes. I can, I can opine on that for a second. he's not entirely wrong. Operationally, there were problems with this team.

There were way too many illegal formations and false starts and that sort of thing. That comes from coaching. But if you understand that you're a roster in transition, then there are other areas that you should accept you're not going to be very good at, which is your final record being the most important one. Well, the main thing for me is, if I'm Kevin Cefansky, it's one thing to be fired by the Browns. I'm sure that wasn't pleasant, but there might be a sense of relief, to be honest,

that he couldn't carry it. But I think the moment where he would probably get angry is listening to Andrew Barry talk about him coming short. And Andrew Barry releasing like a four-paragraph press release. Andrew Barry gets press release statements about firing head coaches. It's just crazy. Pete Carroll mentioned him quickly there that he only signed a three-year contract with the Raiders.

Even going into this job, it felt like a short-term deal, even if it went well, it might have been a short-term deal, it turns into one year. I don't have that much more to say about Pete Carroll and the Raiders, frankly, looking back. I think what's most interesting, Shook, is looking forward. I noticed that in their press release, Tom Brady's name was mentioned. And that's the first time they've done this, that it's going to be Brady and the current GM, John Spitech, who is making, you know, the decision on the next coach. Albert Breer has mentioned Jesse Minter, who has some Michigan ties like Tom Brady, so there might be some familiarity there.

You know, Brian Flores has been mentioned. I think just from a pure roster perspective, this is the toughest of the sixth job because there's no quarter. Like, Titans get an advantage because they have a quarterback and then the other rosters are just better or they have a quarterback. So just from a roster perspective, I think they have the most. most to improve upon. And when you look at the picks last year, it was a lot of carol picks. So it really feels like they're kind of starting from scratch.

Yeah, you know, it's interesting because this portion of the year is an interviewing season, right? And typically when you're hiring, you're looking to be convinced on why you should hire that candidate. But for teams like the Raiders, they also have to sell their situation to candidates they want, which is why you often miss out on the biggest guys. It's why Ben Johnson chose the Bears over other opportunities last year. And I think that this is a really tough team to sell to the highest-level candidates.

Because if you look at their roster, like you just said, weaknesses everywhere, held together, patchwork defense. And I think about, all right, who are the players that you could put on a billboard and show to that coach? And you got three. You got Brock Bowers, Max Crosby, whose future is not guaranteed to be in Vegas. And Ashton Genty, who struggled behind the worst. offensive line in the league. That's it. So it's going to be really hard to replace him with somebody. I like the idea of leaning toward a mentor guy, not necessarily because of Tom Brady's involvement, but because I feel like he's just built like a future head coach. And if there

were ever an opportunity for him to get his first shot, I think, you know, this is one of them. This seems kind of ideal. But God, there's so much work they have to do to this roster to really make themselves competitive again. I can't believe, and this is on me, that I was seduced by the Gino Smith trade as much as I was in the offseason. I was so excited to watch them. I can I definitely believe that I was seduced by it and they only got Gino because Tom Brady couldn't close the deal. Tom Brady is essentially a businessman there, right? He was, he went there to make it happen. My name and my knowledge of the league is going to make it happen. So he met with Matthew Stafford and Matthew Stafford said no thanks. And he met with Ben Johnson and Ben Johnson said

no thanks. So let's show us what you got here, Tom Brady. There's not really the hot names like that, but he is absolutely running this organization. Obviously, John Spitech is the more day-to-day guy, but in terms of the biggest decisions, I believe that it's going to be Brady making them. And, yeah, Patrick Graham was the defensive coordinator there. He becomes an interesting coaching free agent, but it's going to be tricky. The one thing they have to offer is an owner that is willing to spend in a great facility, not just the stadium, but like the practice facility. They treat their players well. Like all that sort of stuff.

Actually, the Raiders have come a long way. And that's why Mark Davis deserved a little bit of credit for having like six or seven different coaches on his payroll right now. None of whom work for the Raiders. He just keeps trying before he gets in. I was like, how many former head coaches

is he's still paying right now? We got McDaniels, Pierce, Carol. Just the list goes on from there. It's crazy. Let's take a quick break. and then we'll come back with some of the guys who are staying put, and just a few more odds and ends for me. Back on NFL Daily, where I'm going to make Nick Shook play the uncomfortable role,

or at least watch me play this role, of a guy who seems annoyed that other grown men professional. kept their jobs in this site. That is an interesting stance to take, but let's do it. I mean, I just, I'm voicing some of my frustration with how some of these organizations are run and maybe representing how some of the local fan base feels in different cities, starting in Cincinnati. Got the text from Nick Wessling.

He was not surprised that the Bengals announced they are keeping Zach Taylor, the head coach, and Duke Tobin, who runs the front office. If you're watching us on YouTube, appreciate you guys. If you're looking for the recap show on YouTube, it's a collaboration. It's on our site, but you can see the Mike Brown statement where he points out that he knows the season's been frustrating and disappointing, but that they're going to keep Duke Tobin and Zach Taylor, that they are the right leaders to guide them forward. they have proven that they can build and lead teams that compete for championships.

He mentions that they were in a Super Bowl and made it to two AFC championships. It's no surprise, but it's just very Bengals that we saw Marvin Lewis Day for 16 years without winning a playoff game. It's going to take a lot, I think, for these guys to leave. I just go back to the fact that in the last three seasons, when Joe Burrough starts, Zach Taylor's Bengals are barely over 500, over a three-year span. If you had told me after that second AFC championship game in a row that they weren't going to be in the playoffs for next three years, I know Burroughs injuries are part of it, but not really.

They haven't had a playoff worthy record when Burrough starts. To me, it's just not good enough, and they're kind of accepting. the middle. Yeah, you know, the first thing I thought of when they announced this, which wasn't surprising, a little disheartening if you're a Bengals fan, is how many years does a Super Bowl appearance Bayou of leeway? And in Cincinnati, it's at least four, because that's where they're headed at this point after missing the playoffs for three straight years. The problem is that in order for this to make sense, you have to, at minimum, win nine games next year, which is where they finished the previous two seasons and missed the playoffs. And, you know, you know,

You got to be in that range. No, you got a win. That's not good enough. You should be like win 10 or 11. But they finish with six wins this year. And they lose in week 18, which doesn't matter, but they lose in a fashion, which, as we covered on yesterday's show, your coach is saying he's out there fighting for their lives. And it just feels like I can't take any of this seriously.

You have a franchise quarterback. You dedicated a lot of money to your receivers. Your defense has been a disaster, although it did get better in the second half of this season under a new defensive coordinator. It's like, do you just believe that another offseason of talent acquisition and everything is going to make this right? Because I have seen enough evidence over the last three years that Zach Taylor can get you to mid.

And I don't know if he can get you above mid unless everything's working really well for them. And I know Joe Burrough's support of Zach Taylor is really important. Well, yeah, Joe Burrow loves Zach Taylor. He lets him do whatever he wants. He kind of runs the offense. And I'm not even saying that that in and of itself is a bad idea. letting Joe Burroughs voice, you know, be the most important. But it's sort of not Zach Taylor's offense.

I don't know what the theme of their offseason will be this year. Last year was all about we got to start the season fast. They did. Yeah. And it didn't, it didn't matter. It's keeping Burrow healthy. There's a chance that Al Golden loses his job. I would be surprised, but their defense really struggled.

There were some schematic questions of how they were playing, but more of the same in Cincinnati. The same is true for the Colts. And we mentioned that on Sunday night's show. We didn't go at length about them keeping Chris Ballard. It's going to be the GM's 10th season. Talk about a guy who I think has done a mid job to use your word. Like he hasn't been a bad GM. He's somewhere just in the middle.

He's had moments that were positive. He's had plenty of moments that were negative. He's just kind of in the middle. You can see some pluses and minuses. But they have had no playoff success whatsoever under Chris Ballard. So that's a long time for a decade. But he's going to be the GM. Shane Steichen's going to be the head coach.

Let's listen to Carly Gordon Ursay in her first press conference after a season as the main owner of the Indianapolis Colts. She shares ownership with her two sisters, but she is the front facing in the building, making decisions on a very daily basis owner of the Colts. And she explained the decision online. to our fans my sisters and i want to extend our heartfelt gratitude for your loyalty and support as always but particularly this season you're right to be frustrated with how the latter part of our season went i'm pissed we are all pissed i don't know because she was looking up at that point. I was like, did she write I'm pissed into the written statement? I think so. Maybe, maybe not. Or maybe she she freestowed there. She did say she was pissed later. I did watch this because I was

curious. Not a lot of owners go up right after the season. She answered tough questions. And she was very careful of what she would say and was kind of asking follow-ups to the reporters to make them clarify. I liked it all. It made sense. I don't think there was a lot of breaking news from it beyond her just saying that the urgency is even higher this year than it was last year. And the urgency was high because people wanted her to say it was a playoffs or bust. But she basically says, we have to finish the season this time. And a reporter noted that it's the last year of Chris Ballard's contract. And would he get an extension? She said, well, we haven't talked about that yet. So I think she made it very clear that she thought it was a better path to maintain continuity

and give this regime one more year together. And she really wouldn't answer the question directly, but I got the sense that she looked at them as like a package deal, that if they're going to start over, they'll really start over. And ultimately, I agree with her, because I think Stuyken is worth keeping. And Ballard isn't so offensive to me that you have to get rid of them this year. I think going one more year and seeing if they make the playoffs

and are a contender is worth a shot. Okay, so first off, this is the first time in my life. life, and she's older than me, but not that much older than me, in which I felt connected to an owner, like, generationally, her just saying, I'm pissed, we're all pissed, I was like, yes, you're speaking my language, and you should be. The other part of this is, I totally agree with what you're saying. They are a package deal. They should be together, but I, going into this season, could not believe that Ballard was still employed, just because I felt like he was real close to getting fired each of the last two previous seasons. Now, you look at those results from the

Colts until they lost Daniel Jones, or maybe the two games before they lost Daniel Jones and everything, you know, went off the rails. And you can use that as evidence to justify keeping Ballard. I mean, he put together a pretty good team. At one point, we were talking them the most dynamic and perhaps complete offense early in this season. Now, a lot of that had to do with the acquisition of Daniel Jones. It also is them conveniently making people forget that they spent the fourth overall pick on Anthony Richardson because they had Daniel Jones. And they arrive at this crossroads in the offseason because they know they won't be able to have Jones available because of the injury that he suffered. And it makes you think, okay, if you're going to

prove that you're worthy of this job, you have to nail whatever you're going to do at quarterback next because that's going to determine whether you're competitive next year. And if you don't nail it, you're not going to have to point to any reason because the win loss record is going to take care of the job for itself. So I'm on board with this. I felt like Stuyken did a really good job. Was that almost two or three, two years ago? Three years ago at this point, I'm losing track of time in which Gardner Minchu kept the ship afloat. And they were competitive throughout the season after losing their starting quarterback early in the year, Anthony Richardson. And I think that he earned the goodwill that he's gotten to this point.

Ballard saved their partnership with his performance constructing this roster this year. So they each get one more year. And I hope it works out for them because watching the Colts be a competitive and really explosive team was fun until they weren't an explosive team anymore. And then it was just kind of depressing. So hopefully they get back on track. Yeah, she kept hitting the point that, you know, she, thought she saw improvement, that they had specific things, they wanted Chris Ballard to work on, and a lot of it bore fruit this year. And this part, she wasn't specific about, but they have a really good offensive line where they've actually replenished it with younger players. They have

a better defense because of their coordinator. Lou Anerumo is getting a head coaching interview in Tennessee. We're back, baby. It's 2022 all over again. There's some promise there, although one of his big signings, and this is obviously not anyone's fault in the organization, Charverius Ward said on Monday that he's considering retirement because of repeated concussions. So you wish all the best for him, but that's something to keep an eye on. Soss Gardner trade, you know, she was asked about, and obviously she okayed that. And she said, you know, positive things about what Soss Gardner could be moving forward. Look, they don't have their first round pick the next two years. So that might be another reason to keep Ballard anyway.

and see through his vision. And basically, it really sounds like both sides want to bring Daniel Jones back and I don't really know about what Anthony Richardson's future is. I bet he doesn't have one. Speaking of quarterbacks and futures and whether they'll be with their head coach, let's talk Lamar Jackson.

Because we did the show immediately after the Tyler Loop miskick in which Jordan Rutt reminded me that we greeted with Total Silence, for like 15 straight seconds because we're in the room with Patrick and it's just like, oh. Oh, no. That is empathy.

And then it's like, showtime. Great job by Patrick. And then he's back on the air doing Black Monday coverage on NFL network, you know, eight, ten hours later in a suit. So what a pro our guy Patrick is. We didn't have any Lamar Jackson sound or any sound after the game. I just thought this question to him about John Harbaugh

it was interesting. Take a listen. Well, do you want to see John to bring the coach trip here? You asked me about next year, Jameson. I'm so caught up in what just happened tonight. I can't focus on that right now. I just told you.

Like, he asked me, are you stunned? I'm stunned right now. I'm still trying to process what's going on. Like, I know we lost, but, like, you know, that's all. So they asked them about John Harbaugh. That was Jameson Hemsley of ESP. the end. And I think Lamar answered it in a perfect way. He was very emotional and upset

about the loss. But he also had a chance to stand on the table for a coach that he's been with a long time. And he didn't. So I don't think it's crazy for an adult to read into that a little bit. Interesting. I actually, you know, I don't think people consider this when they give a non-answer that you have the opportunity to defend somebody and you don't. And that resonates. Like, that sends a message. I mean, I understand in that moment why he was emotional. Non-answer is an answer. That's why you sometimes ask the questions, you know? Yeah, you're absolutely right.

He played his tail off, but you're right. Because if he was fully on board, he would have been like, look, he guided us here. He got us through this fire. And yeah, we came up short, but we love him. And he didn't. So, good point. So Baltimore, we don't know what's going to happen. There's been some reporting that coordinator, there could be changes.

I think the Harbaugh status is up in the air until. totally confirmed otherwise. Clearly, the odds are that he is going to stay. But they said on the pregame shows, Ian Rappaport on the NFL Network, said that they were going to have a conversation after the season. And they haven't had that conversation yet, or they're having it right now.

And so we'll see. So in the safe for now category, Baltimore, Tampa looks just safe, safe. It's not like they released a statement, but Todd Bowles did a press conference on Monday. Business as usual. Some teams have let their coaches do press conferences on Monday and made a change. The Bucks pretty famously made a firing, I think, two weeks after the season when John

Gruden got fired. So you never know. But he did his press conference. All the reporting around the Jets say that Aaron Glenn is going to be safe. And Miami still employs Mike McDaniel. They will not be employing to a Tung of Iloa, I don't think. for very long to do it was asked by three local reporters, including one from the Miami Herald on Monday

about whether he would want a fresh start next season. And he said a fresh start would be dope. So one more for Tua, the most honest man in front of a microphone, sometimes to his detriment for the 2025 season. Although this one, I'm fine with him just being real with it. Yeah, he tagged that with that would be good with it, which just tells me, get me out of here.

And I think that's why Mike McDaniel is still employed. I think we know who the Dolphins have chosen in this apparent rift. And it's the coach, not the quarterback. Interesting to see what kind of market develops for him. Tougher to move that contract, post-June 1st trade is a little bit easier. Cutting is almost not really doable unless you want to eat the cap hit like the Broncos did with Russell Wilson. And also, where do you go from there? I mean, Quinn Ewers is not the future.

He had a nice game and a half, kind of. He also had an ugly game. But that's where the dolphins are right now. You know what, honestly, Greg, this is crazy, but we talked about Kyler earlier. I could see a world in which the dolphins somehow acquire Kyler Murray and pair him with Mike McDaniel. And it would be weird.

And I'm signing up for it because I like weird stuff in football. Why not? Yeah, I could see that. You could see Malik Willis. There's a few quarterbacks that'll shake loose. I think Aaron Rogers is going to get a job next year. I think he's going to want to play. That's not really the fit that I would look for.

So we'll see. There's a sneaky amount of like 1B quarterback options available this offseason. We'll see if Cliff Kingsbury is available. Diana Rossini, the athletic indicated maybe like a rift between Kingsbury and the front office of how they were doing things. It just was interesting to hear Jane Daniels on Monday really go to bat for Cliff Kingsbury, how much the Kingsbury means to him and some other players did as well. So it's gotten to the point where they're responding in public.

That's just one situation to watch. Before we wrap up here, Shook, it's time for delivering results presented by Uber Eats. When football makes you hungry, order Uber Eats. So Cam Ward, he's our guy for who delivered. Not the fact that he's coming off of an injury, but that he delivered some good news on Monday, Nick. His shoulder will not require surgery. And ultimately, I think he delivered a really good rookie season. all things considered around him.

I don't feel any lower on him after his rookie season than I did before. I think he's going to be fun, and I just want to see what coach he has next to help him in his development. Yeah, not necessarily parallel comparisons here between Caleb Williams and Cam Ward, but I could see a similar jump with the right coach in year two. I think it's a pretty good comparison. I mean, there are big differences. There are differences, but I...

Yeah, there are differences. In terms of the area that they occupied at... as rookies, it makes some sense to me. Yeah, yeah. There's questions to answer there. They obviously don't have as much talented receiver as the Bears did in Caleb's first and now second year. But I like what they developed with Chmary D.K.

And, like, I.O. Manor and, like, this group is, they got, they became a fun team to watch. Even though they weren't very good down the stretch. They weren't this dreadful operation that you dreaded watching every week. They were, they were fun. And a lot of it had to do with Cam Ward. So I think they probably should feel pretty good about what they got out of their first overall pick and continue to trust the process. But they got to nail the coach. They got to nail

the coaching hire. And that's the biggest thing on the checklist for them right now to make sure that Cam's development continues. But it's good that he is, you know, taking on a leadership role within this franchise already because he already said weeks ago that he wanted to be involved in the hiring process. So that should make it potentially a little bit easier to find the right fit for him. And he will still have to rehab and get that shoulder healthy. But the fact that it won't require surgery means I think it'll be more like weeks into a couple months instead of an entire offseason in terms of his recovery. Hopefully that goes well and he doesn't eventually need the surgery. That was delivering results presented by Uber Eats. When football

makes you hungry, get game day deals on Uber Eats, the official on-demand delivery partner of the NFL order now. Speaking of the Titans, just a few quick interview, update. on their list, according to various reports, Lou Anorumo, the Colts Defensive Coordinator, the Broncos defensive coordinator, Vance Joseph, both chiefs coordinators, Matt Nagy, who's a coaching free agent, his contract is up, and defensive coordinator, Steve Spagnolo.

An item that occurred in the last handful of days that we haven't mentioned on the show is that the Titans elevated their GM, Mike Borganzi, within the organization. and essentially demoted this other guy, Chad Brinker, which we have talked about on the show a few times. It was a little nebulous what he did, sort of like president football operations.

But it's just funny because literally the Titans have changed their power structure every off season, sometimes twice a year, for about five years straight. So a new guy's in charge. And as it pertains to this head coaching search, the new guy's from Kansas City. I mean, he's been there in the building for a year, but he comes from the chiefs. So if they hire Matt Nagy or Steve Spagnolo,

which I would more support, it's hard to get too excited about Matt Nagy. It's hard. I mean, I don't know, man. I feel like Spags is like a great coordinator. Hasn't been a head coach in a long time. But both are retreads, right? So it's like, how excited can you get about a retread?

Am I just jaded? Some retreads work. You know, our buddy, Ali Connolly, he thinks retreads are. A little underrated. And historically, retreads sometimes do work, but you just, you got to pick the right one. Okay. Nolos seems like he'd have a chance, you know. He knows a lot of people in the league.

He's still a good, you know, scheme coach, which I love, I love a coach that can give you a schematic advantage. I've listened to Chris Long's podcast, who played under him in St. Louis. No one was winning in that situation. And they all played well for him, and they liked him. That was one of the worst run organizations you could possibly have. So, I don't know. I'd be open to Steve Spagnullough. Belichick was a retread.

Pete Carroll was technically a retread with a stint in college. I mean, we've had a number of successful retreads. You're right. And in a coaching market like this, in which there is no ascending young coordinator that is a slam dunk, like a Ben Johnson, for example, or even a Liam Cohen, who exceeded my expectations, maybe the retread is the perfect time for one. We'll see. We'll see.

Six openings now in terms of the head coach. in terms of the GM, I think there's only two. Is that right? Because the Giants are keeping Joe Shane. They officially announced that. I don't know if they've released a statement on it before, but it is kind of funny that at the end of every season, they have to make a statement that Joe Shane still has his job.

Like, that's not a great sign. It's like, oh, it's already, just use the one from last year, you know? Just say. It's really important. It's got to be in your email history somewhere. Just pull it back out and change the dates. Yeah, I mean, look, with this, there's two schools of thought here, which is he's probably overstayed as welcome.

And if you want to make a change for a change of sake, then it includes him. But also, like, you want to find wins and you believe in Jackson Dart and this past draft and the defense that I think is, he's constructed fairly well. And an offense that showed some potential, then yeah, you keep him. I don't know. It feels like we're going to do this again next year. It does. But it is the offseason of keep the GM fire the coach.

That's definitely been determined. It sets up a very similar scenario, and this is true of the Browns, too, to what just happened with Atlanta with Terry Fon. I think Rahim Morris paid for the sins of Terry Fond. Yep. Because I think Rahim Morris would have been given at least one more year. Get to year three. The first two years weren't that bad.

But because the GM was on his fifth year and had a. terrible record, then basically the coach gets thrown out with him. So whoever this next Giants coach is is going to be on a short leash or Shane will be on a short leash. He's 22, 45 and one Shane since taking over. That's pretty bad. And that includes the first year where he inherited most of the best players from Dave Gettleman. In the last three years, he's 13 and 38. I mean, you're entering year five and you're coming off two seasons like the ones they had. Those types of guys don't usually get to keep having chances. But they do have a good nucleus. I do think this is kind of the sneaky best job if it wasn't for Joe Shane because I do like Abdul Carter and

Jackson Dart and Andrew Thomas and Malik neighbors. There are there are players here. Brian. This is where I would like to see Kevin's fancy land a head coaching job. I think it makes the most sense. I would love to see what he could do with Jackson Dart. I think there are elements of Baker Mayfield to Jackson Dart that worked for Stefansky in Cleveland that could work in New York. And he has plenty of had coaching experience, so he's probably been seasoned enough to be able to deal with the pressure that comes with coaching in New York because he's already robotic, so he's not going to feed into the drama that is pervasive within New York football franchises. So I think that would be the best fit, but how does he work with Joe Shane?

We'll see. And Shane really emphasized in his press conference today leadership. We need leadership more than anything. And I was like, I don't know. Is he talking about Stefanski? Is he talking about Harbaugh, if Harbaugh ever shook loose? I think they would love a coach. like that or of Mike Tomlin, but I don't think...

Is leadership like code for experience? Like, guys that have won somewhere else. Yeah, I think so. That was how I took it. And man, no media group hates a GM more than the Giants media group hates no shame. Man, the question for him who are brutal. They were like, why are you so bad at your job?

That wasn't really the question, but essentially the subtext of every single question. Final items and we'll say goodbye. The Rams expect Quentin Lake and Devante Adams back this week, good news for them. The 49ers are going to be without Tatum Bethune, their linebacker for the rest of the postseason. That's a big loss for them at a banged up position. They're not sure about their other usual starter, D. Winters either. So they're banged up right now. And the Dolphins GM interviews that I just throw some of the names out there. The Eagles assistant. Alec Hallaby, who were a fan of here. Rams assistant GM John McKay, I think is going to be an interesting name to track.

Another McKay out there, Rich McKay, who's long been in charge of the Falcons in some form and other and actually got moved to a different part of the Arthur Blank Empire. He wasn't fired, but he kind of was moved off the Falcons. That was part of the changes in Atlanta. He was one of them. But the overarching takeaway from these interviews was just that three of the six were from San Francisco where they worked with Mike McDaniel. So I don't know if you want to connect the dots there. I think you're properly reading the tea leaves, Greg.

I believe we have a course that the dolphins are going to follow in the coming weeks and months. Not a crazy one. I don't mind seeing Mike McDaniel get another shot. He does what I say I like the best, which is provide a schematic advantage. except for when they're in third or fourth and short. In which, according to, I think it was Chase Kaufman, I hope I'm getting the right account, had some numbers on Blue Sky that they are the worst team in the NFL

on third and short and fourth and short situation since McDaniel got there. It is really noticeable when you watch them week after week. But, man, I mean, when you're a team that plays a lot of perimeter-based offense, that can be an issue, short-yardage. Yeah, Tyree Kiel had some ideas for that. He was like, stop running A-chan. Yeah, A-chan's not the problem. Tyree. All right, we have a lot to go through in the off season. We're just getting started.

If there's any other coaching firings or news, we will hit that on Tuesday. Chris, let's hit the music. Are we going to keep this under 50 minutes? I said we'd be around 40. We did okay. We're going to be back on Tuesday, Colleen Wolf and Jordan Rodriguez and I, finally reading those holiday cards that you guys sent us. We're also going to pick our award winners in any other extra news that happens. Look for us in the beat's either. This is an I-Heart podcast, Guaranteed Human.