NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Combine Day 2: Lovie Smith, Lance Zierlein & Matt Money Smith

Episode Date: March 2, 2022

A convention center filled with some heroes- Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler, Gregg Rosenthal and Colleen Wolfe bring you all of the latest news surrounding the second day of the combine. Head Coach of the Houston Texans Lovie Smith stops by and so does Bengals Director of Personnel Duke Tobin. We close the show with some hot sizzling draft analysis with Matt Money Smith and Lance Zierlein. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

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I'm sorry. Come again? From the Indianapolis Convention Center, welcome to around the NFL, Dan Hansis on a riser filled with heroes, many of them anyway. Greg Rosenthal, Mark Zessler, and The Wolf, Connie Fox. Yo. That, I feel like the money reads have been pretty fire lately. Like, we're rolling in that department. I love that one.

That's a good one. In fact, as a, as a, uh-oh, turn it up in my headphones. What's that here? How could Wes not like this song? There's a wolf. There's a wolf. It's just such a great song. It is. Lasting over the convention center.

Everybody loves it here. So great was Money's tag today that, We're going to have them on the show later here at the Combine. All right. Still going. If Ricky's going to leave it high in the mix, I'm going to listen to it. Beautiful. Money and Lance Zeerline are going to be here a little bit later to give us a primer.

I think Connie, you gave me that word earlier. That's right. I'm assisting in words today. It's good to have assistance in words because last night was a big one on the town in Indianapolis. We had dinner and drinks. And the fact that we're on the stage, Connie, shows, again, a level of professionalism that you don't see everywhere. We faced a lot of adversity today, and we have fought through it. And I think that we deserve.

I mean, we're taping this at 4 p.m. Shut up, Greg. No one needs to know that. By the way, I brought you guys a gift. You did. What? It's on the ground, because I forgot to bring it up, in that bag over there. Nice presentation.

Suspicious bag, by the way. Erica, can you grab that? bag real quick it's for you too um this is something that i absolutely thought of you guys for when it was bought and essentially i just need legitimately excited to see what i just need to get this out of my hotel room the real gift is the um bitterness and yelling that erika is gonna give you later so for having made her do that rickie was really nimble up and down the riser i'm giving you guys all of my snacks because they cannot be in my room anymore. So I have a half a thing, a pringles. This is not even half. This is like maybe a fourth full.

Reese's thins that are individually wrapped. These are good. Those are opened as well. I have some popcorn in here, some fruit snacks, some cookies. Why do you have all this food? It's weird that you would just be ordering all that stuff at like one in the morning. Some chocolate covered almonds. Yeah, muchies, perhaps. No, I was just hungry. So, you know, when it hits, it hits. You are, you're a wonderful woman. And thank you so much. And we'll give, and because we're a gentleman, Erica, you get the first draft pick of the grab bag. Mark, as a fooditarian, we're going to slot you in at four, but then you get to double up there four or five.

That seems fair. I mean, all the items seem slightly concerning based on what I'm looking at. And the Pringles, I know I'm not supposed to mention them by name, sorry, are, it's happy. The unique potato chip shape. There is only half of them. Why can't you mention them by name? Not a sponsor, Greg. You're a broadcaster.

Don't give them the milk when you can. Have sex with the cow? No, that is certainly not the saying. Why pay for the cow if you're getting the milk for free? Yes. I like mine. Let's get into the show. Yes, Lance and Money will talk combined guys they are in love with the guys that are jumping off the page as they begin the process here.

Drills will begin in a couple days here in Indianapolis right after we fly out of town. Because the press conferences for the coaches and general managers are over. over here at Indianapolis, and that's why we're heading out of town, but the Combine is just getting going. So Lance and Money are going to give us a nice primer on that. Also, guests galore, Bengals director of player personnel and a leading figure in that organization's rise, Duke Tobin will join us, a former Chris Wesleyan favorite.

I remember a feature Chris wrote at the Combine about Duke Tobin. I think that's a good example of he wanted to be a Bengals fan secretly, that he enjoyed that they actually actually had a real personnel guy that wasn't a member of the Brown family. And at the time, we thought had built maybe the most talented roster in the league minus their quarterback. And Wes was not a press conference guy where he's, you know, marching around yelling

questions at person A, B, or C. But Tobin was like the one guy. He did like four or five questions in a row for that article. He fired a few off at him. It was good. Yep. I mean, that tells you so much if Wes was firing off press or questions. Also, the head coach of the Houston.

and Texans, Lovie Smith, will join us on the show. But before any of that, Les, get you caught up on the news of the day from Indianapolis. Hey, whatever Tom wants to do, Tom should be able to do. He's given us all enough. I think at this point in his life, and, you know, if he thinks he's done, then he's done. If he's not, then it wouldn't shock me. Do you believe it? I'll believe it when I see it.

I'll believe it when I see it. Josh McDaniel's new coach of the Raiders long time offensive consiglierie to Tom Brady up there in New England yet another voice in the chorus expecting Tom Brady to be back maybe not this year but next a little taste of this day in Combine history McDaniels was very loose and like laughing a lot he almost is pointedly presenting a different figures than he did in Denver, like, knowing the mistakes that he made there.

But it says a lot where we're at that he got more questions about Tom Brady than he did Derek Carr, who we don't know, like, his future in Las Vegas. Yeah, well, that is the power of Brady. Let's get into the news. Big news around the Arizona Cardinals. Obviously, we talked about it on Tuesday show, Kyler Murray and all the drama that is around Murray and his agents, Jerry McGuire-esque mission statement about the future.

and the Cardinal say they want to back is all sorts of melodrama. And then a little, this is interesting. Out of nowhere we learn on Wednesday that both general manager Steve Kime, Kynbaum, and head coach Cliff Kingsbury, a lightning rod figure, are there for the long-term signed to multi-year extensions. Connie, this had to be surprising to you. It was to me. I didn't see this coming, but it's good news.

It's good news for us because hopefully this means. that there will be a resolution at some point with Kyler Murray because now they can focus on getting those negotiations done. Obviously, these negotiations for Kaim and Kingsbury were being done behind closed doors because that is what's normally done. That's what's normally done with the players too. But this whole thing with Kyler Murray is playing out so publicly,

the statement was so aggressive from Eric Burkhart, but he also reps Cliff Kingsbury. So there's a ton of communication going on between the two of them. Steve Kheim said that he's had constant dialogue with Burkhart, obviously, about Kyler. But I just, I didn't see this coming. It was a bit of a surprise. I wonder if it leads to a split, though, because it seems like if you're Kyler Murray, this power struggle took sort of like a hard right turn into darkness. He's had just a terrible three weeks in terms of his cue rating.

We talked about the messaging from the agent, you know, 24 hours ago. And it's like, who does the organization back? Like we, you know, we talk about like this, the Russell Wilson, Pete Carroll dynamic, a couple. How would that have gone? Well, it's like they clearly backed the coach and the GM. And it makes me just wonder if all these whispers that have been out there about Kyla Murray are coming from deep within the organization and that they don't want to look at this player as someone that right now they want to extend. He's forced his hand on that front.

And it seems uglier to me than we ever would have thought two or three months ago this organization would be in this place. The more I read and see about this, I wonder if those whispers, are coming from the very top or near the very top because there was a column by Dan Bickley on Wednesday that ownership is very likely seething about Kyler Murray's recent reactions if you know the bidwells. And Bickley is a guy who's, he's like the guy,

you know how every town kind of has the guy as the columnist? He's the guy. And you don't need to know that much about, you know, journalism to know he's that you know where he's getting it from and you know he's not just writing that out there and he was doing a lot of speculating about how upset the organization

would be about how Kyler Murray has handled this situation and maybe how he handled the playoff game and then he also presented the other side of the argument which is that there are a lot of players who haven't been happy with the Cardinals organization for a long

time including this very week when Steve Kimes spoke about how much they would like to have Chandler Jones back, and Chandler Jones quote retweeted it with laughing emojis to the end of the line. Like he's using up that character count. And Tyron Matthew, there's been other players that believe, and this was Bickley's words, but I just think you've got to trust someone that knows the situation better than you, and I think it was very informative, that you have a lot of players that believe this group

in Kime, who one person texted me this morning and said, like, what pictures does he have of the bidwells because they just signed up to 27 that that players think that kime and kingsbury say things very differently in public than they present themselves in private and that they feel that they're a little two things well and we talked about at the end of the season and i was getting on kuyler a little bit and gregg you were more in the it's a it's a cliff issue and the thing that i did agree i did agree with you on was that kingsbury cannot get a pass for the way this past season ended and that the program yes i know they made it to the playoffs and they started great but it was such an ugly fate.

It felt like it negated a lot of the growths that you saw from the year. And it felt like it made sense that this was going to be an important referendum on Kingsbury this season. And you let the year play out and see where the organization is. And then you also can continue to track Kyler. Instead, they go all in on a GM and coach that, to me, still are not proven commodities. And you potentially isolate and frustrate the franchise quarterback. What was up with 27 being the extension? What happened to 24 or 25?

Who gets a six-year extension in the NFL? That part of it was not like Super Bowl winners. This is like the Panthers and Sam Darnold, I feel like, just picking up extensions. And listen, for me, I'm wondering why, like, how this plays out in the locker room with his teammates, Kyler Murray. Like, when they see their quarterback scrubbing the Instagram

and then doing this with, it's an aggressive move. That was an aggressive statement to put, out there. Like, how is that taken? Because I would be like, come on, man, what's going on here? And that article that Dan, or that Greg is referencing, talked about the fact that this is a player that, you know, the whispers, he took himself out of that playoff game. That's not going to look good to your teammates. Well, you refuse to go back into the game. But, I mean, in general, in general, it's just like, that's the exact opposite message you want to send as I'm your franchise quarterback for the next half decade or decade. And that maybe he looks at the money he's

making right now. I think he's 38th and paid for stuff for quarterbacks. And looks at baseball. He's a two-star athlete and says I could go to the Oakland A's and have a career that would pay me more money where I'm not putting myself in harm's way in an offense that wants me to dash to and fro with my feet. I think this thing's happened. I think whatever the odds are, and this isn't a rainmaker here. Actually, we're really not supposed to get into all this. But there are probably our odds of with Kyler Murray's going to be on the Cardinals this year or not. And I'm sure it would be, you'd be picking the underdog to say he's elsewhere. I think I'm taking that.

I think I think this. Marky has said that to you yesterday. I said Marky, we don't give up hope. We could get a big domino here, though. It might take a while because Bickley threw out Kyler for Deshawn Watson as one of the two major options. Almost that they're trying to put that out into the ether as something like the Cardinals would be. That doesn't feel right. That could be next off season or months from now.

But DeAndre Hawkins? I can kind of believe it. But Dan, baby with the bathwater, I was saying that in general, the quarterback movement, There was all this nonsense, and that we didn't know all this about Kyler as much a day ago, but all the other quarterback movement, I don't buy into it all until it happens. Wake me up. What is with the baby and the bathwater? I don't know.

What is that even? Because you throw. In general, you would dump. You throw the baby out with the bathwater. You don't do that. In general, you don't throw the baby out. The bathwater is probably soiled to some degree. You want that out of your house.

But who is that like a, would that have been a problem back in the day? Like, whoops, threw away the baby. It's just general advice. Yeah. If they didn't like it, in the old times, you just leave me in the woods or whatever. They don't do that as much anymore. Well, not today. Right, in the olden days.

In other quarterback news. Yes, Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson is another huge domino. But I like Mark saying, this one is a situation. This situation doesn't feel like it's going to end with Wilson playing for a different team. The Seattle Seahawks and their head coach were here. You'll probably be traded while we're at dinner, but that's fine. Right. Well, that would be wild. But Pete Carroll spoke about the future and says,

we don't anticipate Russell going anywhere. At this time of year, you know, there's conversations about everybody. We talk about everybody. And that's commonplace for us to have conversations with teams about all of the players, particularly marquee players. And that's not changed. It's been the same every year we've been here. So it's the same as it's been. We have no intention of making any move there. But the conversations John has to feel those he always has, but nothing specific. that's always annoyed me about Jamal Adams now a member of the Seahawks

he got so angry with his former team the Jets for picking up the phone when a phone call we'll pick up the phone if you want to come to us with a godfather offer in this case it would be Russell Wilson I think that makes sense but at the same time I think they know they're still better with Russell Wilson

especially where Carol is in his career at age 70 I don't know what to believe because there was a report out there that like anyone calling Schneider at least the answer right now has been he's not available which would make sense sort of even if they were interested in tradium that would be the leverage move at this point in the offseason maybe but i i just can't imagine it and i don't see where he would want to go anyways it only makes sense to me in that the quarterback market right now is so bad for teams that need a quarterback because there's no one in this draft class there's the free agent market is

so thin you have like who knows what's going to happen with rogers and then wilson is the other name. So a team could call up and just offer them like the bank. Well, the one team that stands out to me because typically very conservative, Ron Rivera on the quarterback front, the way they've operated with quarterbacks in Washington so far, he's talked over and over. Like, you might have to go spend a lot and go make a big move to get the guy. But I just don't think the door is open for them because, and I get all this could just be lies. Maybe no one on the planet tells the truth. But Russell Wilson also basically shot down the concept of going to the commanders

as a concept as well. He has some choice in the matter, and if you're choosing organizations... I like the way you said commanders. I mean, I just still... It feels like a name from a football movie with no NFL licensing. It's not too late to change. Okay, I guess... It is definitely too late. They've already changed the crest, though.

At least I got that right now. It is too late. Carol, one thing I found interesting in that presser, though, was he was fairly non-committal about Bobby Wagner being back when you think the Seahawks, you think Bobby Wagner making a ton of money, definitely not like a top three or four middle linebacker like he used to be. So that could be a surprise cut coming up. Interesting.

Ooh, he was slot in on the old Greg Rosenthal Free Agency 101. Ouch. Where is he in his career? I mean, older now. I tend to overrate like the name brand guys who, you know, maybe you get a couple good years out of him when he shouldn't be that high, but he'd probably be in the top 40.

In other news. Thank you, Greg. Ouch, 40th. That's pretty good. There's like, 200 guys. Teddy Bridgewater. Just going to mention it. I was like, all right, where is Teddy must put this player below?

The teddy line. It's a real thing. Anyway, speaking Wednesday on Good Morning Football, which is a program on NFL Network. Connie, you are prominently involved with the weekend version. That's right. Saturdays, but that's not happening in the off season. And not in the off season. Don't check it out because it won't be there.

Get excited for the return. That's right. Anyway. John Lynch was on Good Morning Football, the general manager of the Niners. And yes, obviously the questions around the Niners are tied back to the reports about where is Trey Lance? Where's his development? What's Jimmy G's future? All that.

And John Lynch says, don't worry, anybody that's floating ideas that we're a little worried about Trey Lance, it's bull. It's bunk. You know, it's pretty obvious. You know, we put a lot into Trey Lance, and we're loving the development of Trey. The development was tremendous. I think Kyle did a great job of finding ways to develop them without playing a ton of football. The fact that he got some action and got to go get a taste of it was great. And I loved watching him get better in those games.

You know, I tell people he's everything we thought he was when we traded a lot to go get him and more. Trey is made of the right stuff, both talent-wise and in his spirit, who he is, the intangibles. Guys like playing for him, guys like being around him. and we're certainly excited to see what he can do. Yeah. Connie. Yeah. I mean, the old lady doth protest too much.

It's not that he's a lady. Right. Well, you know, the saying. Another term from olden days. The key there for me was, you know, they traded a lot to get him. So now it's time for Tray Lance to deliver to make sure that John Lynch is proven correct. That's exactly what this is. Meanwhile, Jimmy G. has to have shoulder surgery.

And John Lynch also talked about that today and talked about the fact that a lot of teams have interest. He was, like, so open with Peter Schrager on GMFB. Shreg bombs all over the place. I know. Well, that's like a for sale sign. I felt like, like, this is a house that's for sale that you just realize you have to get a whole new septic system into. And now they're, like, trying to paper over it with, like, pretty pictures. You know, like, first of all, there's so many things to have problems with what he said.

We like Trayland so much. We didn't play him after Jimmy G had a shoulder injury that he needed surgery from and that he threw the ball like 39% completion percentage afterwards. Like they should have played Trey Lance. They would have had a better chance to make the Super Bowl. I will always believe it. It was such a glowing review of Trey Lans to a rookie season that was quite mystical or strange to us.

I mean, that's not how it played out on the field. John Lynch also talked to Amazon about being a color commentator, which is weird. And they have a lot going on this offseason. Quisky Tark, Kewan Williams, Lake and Thompson, Arden Key, a lot of free agents who played big-time minutes for them. So he's going to be a busy man. Yeah, so it's time to get that focus back

in the San Francisco 49ers, you know, now that those negotiations did not pan out. Those talks. By the way. Well, you're saying he had the app. We don't know the details soon. I'm just joking. But meanwhile, Al Michaels is still on the one-yard line.

I know. What is going on with that? Either go into the goal line or, you know, I kick the field goal? I don't know. He's at least back at the 6th for a delay of game. I need to know what's going on.

Amazon has had Al Michaels at the one yard line for three and a half weeks now waiting to see if they can get a partner. Right. He needs a partner. I got a lot of questions about John Lynch. Well, what about Connie Fox? What are your questions? And Al Michaels.

Just how it's going to work. What it's going to look like beyond who's in the booth, who's on the road for the pregame show? Does that work out? I got a lot of questions and I need some answers. I know someone who had that job. TNF sidelines. Thank you. Hobran.

There we go. That's why I came on today. Finally in the news, before we get to our wonderful guests, first impressions of Mike McDaniel of the Miami Dolphins, the new head coach. Everyone fascinated with the man. Big scrum, a report is around him. Mark, I know you had boots on the ground. Are you in love with him, or is it a Nathaniel Hackett solo joint for you? Not a solo joint. He joins Nathaniel Hackett in that world.

Greg and I were, you know, shoulder to shoulder watching Mike McDaniels speak. And it's just little, the little ways that he phrases things. Someone just asked a general football question. And he could have just said, like, coach speak, like, you know, we don't have an answer for that right now with the offseason. He goes, we will adapt in ways it's impossible for me to forecast at this time. Classic alien behavior. I love it. I adore it.

He also said, they asked about, like, you know, finding another. version of Debo, Samuel, he said, Debo wasn't found by looking for the next Debo. I mean, I just think that he is, maybe this thing in two or three years melts because like the football heads are like, get this sort of nerdy-looking guy out of here. Or he just fails. Or he just fails.

Or he fails. He has more losses than wins. That's probably the big fact. It's not going to be the bullies and the media sending him out. He is a departure in terms of how he speaks, how he looks, how he does everything, and I'm on board. I enjoy it. I am on record when he was hired. I was a little, I understand there's only 32 big chairs.

I think there's a lot of built-in risk that he doesn't have control over around the dolphins right now. Yep. So he's going to be facing challenges that are unique to him potentially here that could really affect the trajectory of the organization. However, I'm with you when he's a different dude, he's got a different vibe, he's got a sense of humor. All that stuff is welcome in our league. I'm so happy about it. I got to plug in more on him because I was like I missed the press conference. Mark already called him because we, Greg and I both like McDowell.

I mean, I like McDaniel. Yeah, we both got in on Hackett yesterday, too, and it bothered Mark. No, no, this is the off season. I am not. Well, the hip-hop dancing is really what caught me, too. You should have seen how mad Mark was when he found out that I, too, loved. I didn't I actually, didn't I actually a minute later, turn around and say that I found it refreshing that you actually liked one of these coaches. Right.

Two things about Mark that you get to know is he falls in love easy and he's very possessive. Right. Well, that's not all the qualities. Like, that's the, no, it's just like, you think you know me, but you don't know almost 2% of me. Now, I don't want to project too much, but I like McDaniel up there because he's one thing as a coach that I personally think we need more of, which is spacey representation. He seems kind of like a space. He's a little spacey. Like in, and I've talked to people who've worked with him and stuff, like, he's a little spacey, you know, sort of mind is drifting.

Whenever you can have the biggest trait of Adam Gase, you've got to grab it. No, that's not in a bad way because, look, I feel I'm a little spacey. Emica, my wife is Spacey. We come from long lines of families of Spacey, and you don't usually see those Spacey type of people in the big chair. It's an experiment. It's nice. Spacey bloodlines. It's an experiment.

Good luck to the men. Not too much good luck. He's in the AFCs, but whatever. That's what's happening in the news. All right. Let's take a break. and then we are going to welcome in the great. Lovey Smith.

What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week we study the tape,

talk to decision-makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you.

Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple, podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.

What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones. and Drew Franklin on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL, visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. I'm Marcus Grant.

And I'm Michael F. Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. All right, this is real exciting. We are very happy to be joined by the new head coach of the Houston Texans. Lovey Smith, lovey, welcome to the Around the NFL podcast. Thanks, have him now. Exciting time, of course. You know, Texas guy, high school product, getting a chance to lead his professional football team.

It's pretty neat. Very cool. Plus, you get the vibe of our show right off the bat. I appreciated you, you seem to want to help Colleen when her chair started to break as she sat down very professionally. Did you notice their reaction? Yes, too. Not a gentleman down south. We did very little, actually.

That's also up to par. They also, you know, you were on the riser doing your press. This isn't press. This is like family, obviously, love me now. Us talking. Sure, thought. Our colleague, Mark, often laments that men's fashion is just not moving forward. But when you have the beard like that, that's almost a fashion accessory that raises everything.

I did want to just know that because, you know, when we saw you in the past, the beard was not part of the milieu, but you've made a sharp and wonderful aesthetic right turn here. How did it come about? Well, times change. You know, I'm getting older, number one, and you kind of embracing that a little bit. But, you know, a lot of times you go on vacation, you just kind of let it go. Sure. And I did that one summer, and my wife of 42 years loved it, so it's been with me since.

I like it. How has this first month been as Texans head coach? One thing that struck me when you were up there, you were asked about the Deshawn Watson situation, and you said you were looking forward to putting it in the rearview mirror, that you couldn't wait for that to happen. Like, what will that happening solve one way or another do for you as a head coach? Well, just sad. I mean, it's there.

I mean, elephant in the room, whatever you want to say. You know, Sean is a heck of a football player. And, you know, sometimes divorce is a good thing. But you just wanted to play out as much as anything. We're going to have a 20-22 season, and we need to, have clarity on some things and but time will do that and I'm confident of that and I can't wait for that day to get here you said you said that excellent players need to be playing somewhere just out of curiosity when you take over his head coach you were the DC obviously before so you were in the building

but Deshaun was well he was in the building but he wasn't on the team last year and all that did you have a one-on-one talk with Deshaun about whether there was any path forward with him in Houston well I I've had discussions with with Deshaun just from you know last year of him being in the building and of course knew who he was and enjoyed my time talking with him but we haven't had those type of conversations since I became the head football coach what are some of the advantages of being able to build this thing from the ground up I feel like so many people look at the situation in Houston and they talk about how many needs are there and it's all about the negative but that's got to be positive

for you to know that you can build this thing from scratch almost uh exactly and my glass hills have full and when you do build it from there i mean your guys coming in all coming in we understand the situation but we all look at the opportunity as much as anything that's how how my life has played out is about getting opportunities and we have that we have a model on what on what we would like for our football team to look like uh you know as i said you know being the head football coach here you kind of started the process getting the staff together and guys that believe in this way that we're going to win football games, but it is about the players.

The process has started. Being around Nick Casero last year, we got a chance to get our profiles together on what we're looking for at each player. And I think we did a pretty good job of getting some guys in last year, but to build on it, you know, from game one to game two, there's normally a pretty big improvement. Year one to year two, we're expecting a big improvement to.

I mean, we saw growth from Davis Mills. Yes, we did. And, you know, you at this point, point have to, you're in charge of the whole thing, and you're going to ask, you have to get a billion questions about who's going to start week one and who, who it would be. I mean, Davis Mills, I think we just had some draft Knicks on who said he would be favorable to any of the quarterbacks in this draft, but do you feel like you need to go find competition for him or do you feel comfortable rolling with him at this point?

Davis Mills in general, I had a chance to be around him an awful lot last year, got a chance to see his demeanor, how you handle the situations, loved everything about him. and his error course has pointed that way. But every position on our football team, you know, injuries happen. You need more than just one guy that you feel comfortable with. So that will be our plan as we, you know, build this model of what our football team would look like. He was better than the top two picks in the draft. So it's a little sore subject with Dan here.

He's a jet fan. Yeah, we don't need to say that. We watch the games the last four or five games of the year. It's a fact. I'm biased, of course. We start with that. But I did get a chance to see. And there are some good young quarterbacks coming.

up throughout league. But I thought Davis compared with those guys. So that's why, you know, Stanford guy, smart. He's a better athlete than people give him credit for also. So, and, you know, another year with Pep Hamilton, you know, coaching him. We're excited about it. I'm really interested about the perspective that you gained from, you know, this is your third head coaching job, having been in Chicago and Tampa Bay,

and then going down to the collegiate level at Illinois. So what did that, how did that change the way that you view things and run things? Well, I think every stop along the way, I learned something, you know, just experience teaches you so much. 2004, when I first moved into that head coach's seat, there was so much I didn't know, I thought I knew. And a lot of those things, I mean, it is different coming in. You know, I said some of the things, as simple as I'm going to call defenses.

I never understood why you become a head football coaching, and all of a sudden you quit coaching, you know. last year as a defense coordinator I coached a nickel position so some things like that and and just on how I'm going to do things the best of who I am and all the experiences I've gotten from all those other situations I've been in you know hopefully the Texans will you know benefit from that you hear that all the time I've mentioned the Jets Robert Sala it was written a lot DC and San Francisco gets the job he's in more of a CEO role he's you know keeping an eye on all sides of the team but but But it makes sense if your expertise, if you will, is defense. You want that head coach to be prominently involved with the defense. So I hear that. There's a lot of ways of doing things, but I feel pretty strongly about that. And you look at, for some reason, too, defensive coaches don't do it.

There's a lot of offensive coaches in our league. They're all call plays. So, again, I feel comfortable doing that way. And people say, well, there's so much other stuff you have to be concerned with, well, yeah. And there's enough time to do that, too. I mean, you were part of a Tony Dungy staff, and then, of course, you had a similar defense in Chicago. That changed the league because when you installed that Tampa 2 in Tampa

within five or six years, half the league is playing your defense, essentially. And it's changed over the years. I kind of laughed that you got a question about, like, what do you think about the new too high safety trend, like, taking shape of the league? And you were just like, do you know who I am? Like, what I wanted to ask was, like, how is your Tampa 2, though, and your defense now different than it was 20 years ago. Did you really hit him with that?

Did you know it in a laughing way? Well, I was just joking with him, of course. Everyone paused so you could Google my name, sir. We will wait. Because I just think that cover two in general. Now, you know, most games are won based, I'm talking defensively based on whether you can play man coverage. You have to be able to play man coverage,

but there's zone coverage involved. And whether it's man coverage, 3D, you're playing quarters. The corners are some positions by themselves. The receivers are too good. That's why cover, I feel like cover two. We and our family of defense feel like cover two has to be a part of the defensive package. And most defenses in NFL have some form of cover two. I haven't gone.

I don't know if I've ever gone into a game without having some form of cover two. I've always wondered when you're calling a game on defense, offense, how many people are screaming in the headset while you're trying to run the show down on the sideline well i mean there's a lot of people but there's a lot of people also screaming in the stands you have to be able to lock in of course and have tone vision a little bit uh but we of course we have a process we go through and everybody know their role a little bit but that's not much of an issue well love you smith uh thank you so much for joining us best of luck we hope there's resolution at quarterback and then the it feels like then the franchise could really move forward

and it sounds like that could happen soon but we're in a waiting position but good luck to you this season thanks for having me all Thanks, Lovie. There goes Lovie Smith. And also, it's time to say goodbye to Connie Fox, who is such a busy woman that you have to head over across the street to Lucas Oil Stadium. But we wanted to thank you. You've said it all. You know what?

And I brought all the gifts. I'm going to leave the Pringles out specifically. No? I mean, I don't know. Are you worried, though, that the people across the street who you're showing up a half hour late for it to do this podcast are going to realize where they are in the pecking order versus the around the NFL podcast? It's something I've thought about. Yes. I'm going to have to smooth some things over,

but I can handle that. Thank you, thank you. All right, we'll see you at the old steakhouse tonight. I, later. See, yeah. There goes Connie, and let's keep the show rolling here. Lovey Smith, nice dude. Liked him.

He's gotten three big chairs now. It doesn't happen a lot, and he certainly knows this is going to be his last shot to make it happen. I mean, he went to a Super Bowl, right? Yeah, against the cults. He's part of a driving a historic game. He really, that's why I hate that phrase. He's like, you can't, you got to put people in the Hall of Fame if you can't tell the story of football without him.

It's like. You hate that or you like that? I don't like that's kind of true of Lovie Smith. I don't think you need to put him in the Hall of Fame. But I think it's true. He's sort of an architect of a detail. You should have brought that up to the, during the interview. An architect of a defense that changed the league and was part of the first Super Bowl with two black head coaches.

It's very rare for a black head coach to get a third crack. It's almost never happened. only white coaches almost have gotten that opportunity over time. So he's been a part of our lives, especially in the NFL for the last 25 years. Who is the last head coach that got a third job? Period. Any head coach? Yeah.

Well, this is why. Ricky? This is why Win West's toaster was hard. Sometimes when you ask on this spot. While Ricky finds out that information, let's throw it to our next conversation. Yes. a favorite of Chris Wessling, a man that helped rebuild the Bengals.

Duke Tobin, take it away, us. All right, this is very exciting. We are happy to be joined by director of player personnel for the reigning AFC champion Cincinnati Bengals. It's Duke Tobin. Still, as a lifelong football fan, a little strange to say that. The Bengals have gone from a place where they were for a lot of fans,

also ran status to now becoming a superpower. almost overnight. How does it feel to be a primary architect behind that happening? Well, we had something else in mind other than just being an AFC champ. So, you know, you get the taste of it. You want to get back. You want to finish it. And so our focus isn't on where we've been. It's not about the past. It's where we are right now and where we're going. But, yeah, it feels good. I'm happy for our players. We had a lot of players that kind of came together. and really played for each other, and the culture that Zach's brought is great.

And so it's nice when that's rewarded on the field. We had Brandon Bean on the show, and he was talking about, you know, the way their season ended and heartbreaking fashion against the Chiefs before you slayed the Chiefs. Have you been able to go back and kind of absorb the Super Bowl

and how that ended? Not really. No, I know how it ended. Yeah. You're aware. I don't know that there's much to do about it. Right. But it ended and we moved on.

And is it easy? It's not easy to move on. I don't know if I'm thoroughly over it yet, but I get up in the morning and my feet shuffle and here I go. So that's about where I am with it. But, no, I haven't, I haven't dwelled on it. I don't go back and grind on the tape and see what could have been. I know what it was. It's healthy.

Well, it's such a quick turnaround. Not to make it all about us, but it really hurt that taking that extra week out of the season, you add one on the back end, then you take it out of what normally would be a couple of quiet weeks. And then you guys are going straight from the Super Bowl. Here, it's only two weeks apart. Like, what are those two weeks been like trying to catch up? Yeah, it's your team evaluation, you're planning for free agency, you're planning for the combine. And all our scouts have been working at it.

So they're up to speed on what's going on. but yeah it's you can't dwell on on what just happened you got to just you know grind forward and see you know where you're going and but yeah it's there's not a lot of time there's not a lot of time it's a long season and you know our players deserve a rest for sure for so many years the bengals were categorized as you know not spenders in free agency smaller scouting department maybe doing things a little atypically to some of the other NFL teams but in recent years that's completely change you spent a lot of money last off season and then the year before what happened inside the bengal's organization to take on this new approach i don't know on the on the spending thing

i i know what's said uh i i don't know that that's really ever been the truth um you know over the beginning of the last cba you know over over the different tranches in that we've been an upper half of the league spending team and so i i know what's said um i don't know why it said but cash to players we're spending on players and we continue to do it sometimes we spend on our own each team's different sometimes you have to spend to keep your own sometimes you have to go out and and recruit others and so we've gone out and recruited others because our team demanded that and this year it'll be a blend it'll be a blend of trying to get our guys back that we know and like and going out and seeing if there's guys that can advance the ball for us but in terms of our scouting staffs

size. It fits for what we do. It's what I want. I like working closely with guys. I like having a tight-knit group. I like relying on the people that we have. I like letting them grow in their role and feeling a sense of importance to what we do. So if you got the right people, you don't need a ton of people. Now, you need a ton of people if you don't have the right ones. And then good luck determining who to listen. How do you determine who to listen to if you have a ton of people and you don't trust any of them but if you got a small group that you trust you know who to listen to you think you spend a lot again this year because you got a lot of cap space again we'll we will we will use the resources we have to make our team the best we can make it

and we've never had restrictions in that area and we'll continue to do that but it's going to be a blended approach because we got guys that we want back we've got a number of guys that we want back and so we'll see if we can make that happen that's a director of player personnel answer that you just got served by Duke, Tobin. You know, it's interesting because everyone looks at how this season, not just how it ended, but the playoffs that Joe Burrow struggled to stay on his feet. He got taken out a lot in the divisional playoffs,

happened again in the Super Bowl. So there is this oversimplification that comes from bozos like us to say, that's it. Bengals, fix your offensive line, and you'll be right back in the big game. But at the same time, it is oversimplified, Duke. But isn't it also kind of true that it is, the offensive line that you have to focus in on and improve to take the offense and the team to that next level?

Yeah, you know, the thing, I'll give you a player personnel director answer on this one too because I know you like it, but here's the thing. Yes, the sack numbers were up. But the other data to look at is we had two receivers go over 1,000 yards, a third almost. We had a running back go over 1,000 yards. Our quarterback led the league in passer rating or maybe he was second. we are a top 10 scoring team and our yards per play we're a top 10 yards per play team so the offensive line factors in all of that success as well so yes there is the piece of sacks but

there's a lot of productivity in between those sacks and so we've got guys we believe in and want to and want to work with and yes will we go out and see if we can get better absolutely we're going to go out and see if we can get better at every position but that's every off season that's that's what we that's what we do so yes is it something that we're going to look closely at and see if we can improve absolutely yeah but i'm not going to sit and say that the the offensive line is a reason we didn't finish the last two minutes of the super bowl but they're they all have one thing in common they're all afc champions and and my hats off to them for the job that they did there is because everything you're saying is true about the production of the offense was

excellent i think and we've talked about it on the podcast we've love watching burrow he's such a great exciting charismatic guy that you actually get where he has the serious knee injury year one he gets takes more sacks than any other quarterback in the history of the playoffs now they played four games obviously right four games so that factors in as well but just the idea of yes he's going to produce because he's a baller and that offense is great around him but how do we protect him so he doesn't have his career impacted by all these hits well you know i i i've seen Aaron Donald play against other teams other than us. Fair, fair.

And, you know, we kind of had Murderers Row on the defensive line on our path in the playoffs. And those guys do it to other teams other than just us. And so maybe part of that is if we don't have to play Aaron Donald and Chris Jones. Avoid those guys. You know, Oakland's outside edge guys. And, I mean, we had Tennessee's defensive line was one of the very best in the league. And so our guys had a tough, tough chore.

And, you know, hats off to Joe for hanging in there and making it work with a very tough chore for an offensive line to deal with. One thing I loved about the Bengals this year was how you handled your own division. I mean, just absolutely taking the Ravens apart twice. I mean, just, you've been there for so long yourself. Just a Browns fan, by the way. He's a Browns fan, so he enjoyed you guys taking the Steelers and the Ravens out. It was just like it was a long time coming, and something about it felt like sports justice on some level. But was there a time for you maybe when those games were happening compared to where we were in September thinking, oh, damn, this team is good?

Like, you know, in the summer, there were a lot of these narratives about, you know, all this stuff. You maybe took the wrong guy in the first round, all these other things. Everything kind of panned out well for the Bengals. You were healthy. You peaked. But was there a moment where you just said, we're sitting on something special here? You know, we felt that early in camp with our team and how the unit was coming together. and I think how people rally around Joe and how the defense was starting to form up

and play as a real unit. And so we felt it very early. You know, the plan is always to win your division. And, you know, we got nothing but respect for Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Believe me. They're great organizations. Didn't hear Cleveland mention there, but that's okay. Well, we didn't beat Cleveland twice.

We actually lost the Cleveland both times. But your question on Baltimore and Pittsburgh, that's the plan. We respect them a lot more to know that that's not going to be the norm. We're going to have to battle with those guys. And, you know, it'll be fun to see it. Don't try to put Duke in the corner. Can't put Duke in the corner. I attempted to.

It didn't work. You failed. What is it like about Jamar Chase that makes him so special? Because he's someone like we've watched. And it's almost like I'm not sure what he does that makes defenders look so bad. Like how he gets that open? Because it's not like just pure speed. It's not like raw athleticism maybe all the time.

And yet I would put that rookie season with any rookie season in the history of the NFL alongside Randy Moss. Well, he is fast and he is athletic. I'll tell you that. I just mean like there are other receivers that way and he elevates himself in a different way. There's a combination of all the traits that you need and he really lacks for none of them.

And the strength in his play is really important because he can run through jams. he can run through guys in his hip pocket. And I think the confidence level he plays with. And then obviously, you know, the cohesion he has with our quarterback, which was important to us. And he's obviously got that. And they have a real vision together when they're out on the field.

And it's just kind of natural for him. But he really doesn't lack in any kind of physical trait. And then his confidence is great. Do you feel like you can kind of like kick your? feet up and not worry about your skill position players this entire group is going to be going up against those browns and they're signed through 2024 at the least Higgins boyd chase burrow mixing all together at least for three more years that's just seem like a kick your feet up on the right that's a pretty rare that you know though that's a pretty rare thing for a team to have all those

young players all together locked up long term and and we're happy that they're with us and and the plan is for them to be as successful as any, you know, quadruplet or whatever it is, you know, and you put Tyler Boyd in there as well. And, you know, C.J. Uzama and Drew Sample, you played really big roles in what we do. And, yeah, it does feel good, but we're never satisfied. If we can get better, we're going to try to get better. If we can add a piece that will give us a niche that we think will make us more explosive or harder to defend against, we'll do that.

And same on defense. I mean, we've got a lot of guys up. that we want to get back because we think the unit's cohesive. But, you know, every year is a slog. I think we've got 46 guys under contract, so we've got a long way to go before we get to 90. I don't want to break news on your behalf, but I feel like one position you will not attempt to upgrade this off season is kicker.

I mean, let's talk about Duke Tobin and the Bengals knocking their draft out of the park. Jamar Chase was a brilliant receiver in year one. He wasn't even the best player in the draft relative to position, because Evan McPherson was perfect, especially when it mattered most in January. I know obviously you thought highly of them to take him in the fifth round because a lot of teams don't even do get into that business. But, I mean, talk about something, having a vision

and then it hitting exactly how you want. It can't beat what McPherson gave you. Really an impressive guy to be around because he is tough as nails. And he just doesn't get rattled ever. And that's what we saw. and he's certainly got all the physical traits you want. And in my humble opinion, we've really got the best special teams coordinator in the league

and a guy that can instill confidence in guys, fix problems when they come up and, you know, in Darren Simmons. And so that combination was fantastic. So, yeah, we probably won't be adding at that spot. If you have one, you have enough. Evan McPherson is the player that made me realize that I'm very old because he looks 13 to me. Yeah.

He was kicking in Alabama high school like four years ago, and now he rules the world. But let me try to make a headline here. But how about Evan McPherson watching the halftime show at the Super Bowl? That's just inappropriate and unacceptable, right, Duke? I didn't see it, so I didn't see it. It was worth seeing. I wonder if you have any stories of Bengals fans over the last month.

Unbelievable. We have an experience, you know, we had a, a co-host on her show, who was no longer with us. He was a big fan of yours, actually. He wrote a great article about you. I remember, like, six years ago. Chris Wesley. About, yeah, Chris Wesleying, building how you built up that first roster in 2015.

You've been with a couple coaches now in today. But we had all his brothers come to the Super Bowl to watch you guys and just meeting all the Bengals fans that were out there for the game. I don't know. There was some sort of joy and something special about them. I didn't know if you had any stories about what it was like. to put our fans on display for the world to see because now the world knows what we know. They're football savants.

They love the Cincinnati Bengals and they'll show up. And it was in Tennessee, the crowd we had at that game. And then afterwards, you know, it was fantastic. The amount of people that were still in the stadium cheering for us at the end of the Kansas City game was fantastic. I mean, just really impressive. and then out at the Super Bowl, it was Houday Nation out there. So, you know, just it was great to see the world recognize, you know, what we know about our fans. They were still happy afterwards.

That was the thing that got me. Like, they were just like, well, we made it here. This was fun. They were still in a good mood afterwards. It is something. It's crazy. I'm a Jets fan, full disclosure, and I've never been able to enjoy going to a Super Bowl. But walking the concourse at the game and seeing all the fathers and sons.

and we're talking like middle-aged men with their elderly fathers and you're thinking this might have been the first time they've experienced a Super Bowl together and like there's a lot of responsibility on someone like you and on the head coach because these teams are like the fabric of the community in a lot of ways so I'm sure as disappointing as the way the game ended you gave people that experience on Ottawa so good job we feel that I mean we know we're beholden to the city and to our fans

And that's, you know, we do the best work we can. We work as hard as we can because we want the product to be something that they're proud of. And our fans have been great. Do you get noticed around town? No, I'm pretty incognito. You got the hat on right now, too. I normally wear a hat, yeah, and just kind of bald, hide my bald head. I got in a fight with my dermatologist, so he got the better of me before I came.

Well, you got to listen to the dermatologist. Duke, thanks so much for coming on and best of luck this off season and everything that's to come in 2022. Appreciate it, guys. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. There goes Duke Tob.

I like the cut of his jibs, Cecil. Easy to get along with. It concerns me that most of these guys now seem about half a decade younger than I am. They used to seem like adults and I was a child. But I can see why West Dougham. I think that he has got incredible, like historical, organizational. data on the Bengals. He's been there through it all

and he's got to be feeling himself right now in that city. He's five years older than you, buddy. How about that? Very unassuming in that hat, too. Well, I just felt older. It wasn't like an expensive hat either. It was just kind of the one

that they gave him, I think. He said he'd been to the dermatologist, so I think maybe it had some, something going on there. Yeah, exactly. Speaking of Chris Wessling, that was something he learned. You have to protect the dome

when you shave it down. All right, what? All right, here we go. All right, this is, I know it's been an action-packed show, but we've saved the juiciest breakdown of the draft you could possibly find on the internet for last. You're going to enjoy it. Let's welcome in right now, Matt Money-Smith and Lance the airline right after this break.

What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decisions, makers and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to

the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score,

this podcast is for you don't miss it listen to the move the six podcast on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts hey this is matt jones i'm drew franklin and this is nfl cover zero we're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different did you see the colts pretzel that was my other big takeaway from that what was that oh my we think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet,

we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. And here they are, Lance Earline, Matt Money-Smith. They'll be anchoring the NFL network coverage throughout the Combine. And now they join us on the Around the NFL podcast.

And boys, we had a nice dinner out. Yeah. Salt on Mass. Greg and Mark weren't there, but it wasn't because they were left out. It's just the way it happened. They weren't inviting. We were organically not invited. I wouldn't even have thought about it, but then you just made it into a total lie.

Do you know how Dan managed to join us? Lance and I were walking out, and Dan comes strutting in. His chest all puffed out. With steak and shake. He's got food with him. What are you doing? He's like, I'm just going to go up in the room, mash this burger. It's like, we're going out to dinner.

I had to come with us. I had an whole game plan because Mark and I had a couple at the hotel lobby right after our taping on Tuesday. And then I said, all right, I'm going to slow down a little bit. I'm going to smash the smash burger or steak and shake burger. And that'll be back at 9 o'clock. Then we see these two guys in the lobby. and I go out and we had a nice time. Yeah, we did.

Dan's tipping point came at about one, Ricky, what was it, 1, 1.30? Okay, about 1.30. When I say, hey, we're all going to go and Connie was with us, it was a great crew. It was Colleen and Sarah, and I'm like, hey, we're all ready to go. And Dan goes, you don't have time for one more? I was like, because he had bought the previous rounds, so I think intimating. I'm some sort of cheap skate. I'm like, sure.

I'll buy you one more fine so I go to the bar I get him his vodka soda oh you got me that okay and so I hand it to him and I'm like well I guess we're having one more I feel like we're talking about a different guy right now because this is very interesting the story and I know it's an audio format but perhaps you guys can help me with the visuals so Dan gets the drink and he's got his empty in this hand and he carefully aligns the bottom of the glass and drops it into the empty and then he takes a sip bad one and I see him go struggle to swallow it and then he just looks I'm telling you he looked at the Tidos and Soda for the next 10 minutes and I finally go are we ready to go now he's like yeah we're ready to go

this is that's a typical for Dan Dan is typically you wouldn't know how many he's had any Irish goodbyes out of there usually I had my game plan yeah and the game plan never fails but then when I audibled that took the night in the different direction I'd say that was probably your 15th

stay with the call stay with the call plays the audibles all Often do not work. Yeah, off script. But he was a pleasant drunk. Yes, I had a great time with you guys. It was fun.

Now, and again, as we said at the top of the show, it's not about what happens the night before. If the real pros combine week, you get up the next day and you perform on the stage of hours. Right, we had a 2 p.m. call time, so I don't know if that's. That helps so much. It's like a regular war hero over here.

I saw Greg in the gym this morning. He barely paid attention to me. I was like, hey, Rosie. He's like, boom. You just kept walking right by? Oh, no, no, no. I haven't seen these guys for two years. I come back in, and there's a new alpha on the set.

And it's Greg Rosen, though. Like, I don't know what happened over the last two years. Yeah. Something has happened that Greg has usurped all of you guys' power. Very hungry for power. That's never been, not been true. Nothing's happening. We are taping this in such a way that Lovey Smith is coming up soon.

You're having a very nice conversation off to the side, which we all get caught in right now. We're friends. We've been friends long enough. Lance that I knew I would say that you wouldn't be bothered by just hearing me say like Lance let's go that's exactly what you said yes sir and it and I came up and I jumped up we were all taken it back but at the same time Greg and I've been noting this recently you've had these random acts of masculinity that keep popping up lately and this is just another one in the list so something has changed I believe they're not rams they're realms random acts of masculinity they're realms

There's something that happens. It's very special in every young man's life when they turn 43. They become a man. And that's what happens. Not to suggest you weren't masculine, but possibly to suggest that previously. There's a curve. It's going up. All right.

Ben, here we go. Let's talk football. Let's talk comment. Lance, I don't know why money doesn't have one. I don't know what's going on. I was assigned one last night at about 1230 a.m. All right. I'm dead serious.

Can you do a mock draft for us? I'm like, it's 1230. more prime but I guess so yeah post-taste so keep an eye out for the Matt Money Smith mock but right ask the coaches while you're in prime they're there I'm looking at lances 1.0 and we go up to what five I'm only going to go to three I like that that's an alpha move I've got one coming after the combine though so this one is just kind of a whatever mock I do mine after the draft yeah it's always love it so I shouldn't get sometimes I worry I still have nightmares about the

Eric Fisher, Luke Jokel draft. When I see Evan Neal, Alabama tackle, number one, is that telling me this isn't going to be a fun draft, or is he just such a great fit for the Jags that that's where we start, and there's still plenty of fun players to get to as we go through this adventure? I don't know I would call this draft fun, Bob. This is not what I would call a fun draft. I think it's a draft unnecessary.

This draft is like when your grandma would buy your socks. You need the socks. You know, you need the notebook paper or whatever. Way to sell it, Lance. But this is socks and notebook paper. This draft is about things you need. I can't wait for this thing to start. I'm not saying this.

I'm not saying there are not luxury items that are available to be had in this draft. I'm just saying when you start having tackles that are slotted number one, it's a nuts and bolts draft based on need at the top. And that's what this is. And I think the flashy stuff comes in the middle of it. Like, I actually think the top five or sixth, the fun stuff to me begins in, like, the middle of the first round is when a lot of the fun stuff happens. And I think there's some really high upside players to be added in the second and third rounds of the draft. And so while, you know, we're not going to have the headliner migrating scale, 7.0 or higher, what I think we have is we happen to have for hardcore football fans and draft people, there's some really intriguing talent in this draft.

it just happens to live in rounds 2 through 4, I think, the most intriguing. Yeah, but the Fisher and Jokal year, people weren't that high on them then. They weren't. Like, people said, and they were right, going into that draft, this might be one of the worst drafts we've ever seen, and it turned out to be. Almost no one out of the top 15 made an impact in that draft. But I don't get the feel that that's the case in 2020 at all.

It's just not as many headliners. People like, they like Neil. He's giant, he's nimble, he's going to be fine. And they have a quarterback, you know, and I think if, look, if, put it this way, if Nick Bosa were coming out this year and he was the number one pick, would you be like, is there sizzle there? It's not a quarterback, but it's a, you know, yes, there would be. And I think, so you need pass rushers, you need guys that will protect against those pass rushers

and you need quarterbacks. That is the foundation of football success. So in the case of the Jaguars, they need someone to protect their number one pick who got wrecked last year and it just, it's the way it lines up. And, you know, when you don't have a quarterback there, it's hard to trade out. You just, you're not going to get enough value, I think, to trade back. And that's kind of where you then maybe start talking about the notebook paper socks, sort of character of the draft.

Yeah, and that's why the Texans, you know, the guy to me that's the most fun in this whole draft is a safety. And that's not typically going to be something that sizzles. But how often do you have a guy who's six-four who's going to grow into a 230-pound frame who can play as a linebacker over a tight-in like a, you know, like a guy like Travis Kelsey, a guy who can play on the back end like he's a single high safety or someone who can play in the box. He's a freight train as a hitter.

He is a talented cover man. He's a really, he's a good football, high football character guy, a guy who's going to be good in the locker room. I'm going to interrupt you real quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you. Yeah, yeah, thank you. It was the buildup.

And you have a mock to the Jets at four. And I think I took, you know, our team took our team. Jamal Adams, number six. We talked about last night at dinner. Isaiah Simmons, another hybrid guy that maybe hasn't fulfilled expectations, but this guy's different. He's a safety. Isaiah Simmons was becoming a lot.

Kyle Hamilton's going to play safety. Kyle's a big safety. He's like if you went all the way back to like David Fulcher. I mean, he's an old school 220 plus pound hitter who happens to be a great athlete and who's diverse enough to cover. So I think, you know, from a sizzle standpoint, safeties don't typically do it. But when you watch his, I showed you last night, Dan, some of the hits that he has. he's a real dude now he will come up and smack you but he's also versatile so I got him as my highest rated player in this draft the thing is you're not drafting

safeties first that is a true story by the way Ricky yes we were having dinner in the middle of our main course how our dinners happened Dan was eating his chicken fried chicken with jalapeno gravy and Lance and I said Dan I think you need to see this but what did you say you said watch this I'm going to search Kyle Hamilton hits like a train. Twitter, Lance, and there was the boom. And he was laying out dude. It's like a video game. And I had audio over

it. I put in myself. I was pretty proud of that. That was pretty nice. And then we had a hot draft. Just push a tee. We had a hot draft argument between us about whether or not he'd be available at four. Yeah. He's probably the best player in the draft and maybe the Texans take him at three just because he's that Derwin James kind of difference maker that can really

remake a defense. I think Greg and I missed the event of the year here potentially. I have a man crush already. Mark's Level of annoyances rising. I know I am starting to do my homework. I feel good. I'm also waiting on us. So you did miss quite a soiree.

I can tell. I can tell. I'll attempt to make up for it tonight. Mark's Rage Index and Greg's masculinity index both going up like this. Why? What do you suggest? Dign diagram now? Mark wanted nothing more than to be left alone for dinner last night.

And he was. So I think everyone got what they wanted. I do what I want. And that's how that unfolded. Speaking of Alpha male. You got Kenny Pickett 11, Lance. Yeah. Obviously, let me ask you this way.

Kenny Pickett's in last year's draft, which was much more fruitful quarterback-wise, is he top 25 first-round pick? No. No. He is in the discussion with Davis Mills, and he goes ahead of Davis-Mills. Kenny Pickett would have been the for sure next guy up. I think he would have been drafted ahead of Kyle Trask. So I think Kenny Pickett.

So he would have been a sixth quarterback. He would have been a second-round pick. Yes, he would have a second- round pick. I think he would have been a top. Another huge selling point for this draft. I think you would have been a top 40 pick. So, I mean, that's not bad. Like, I know we're looking at mocks and everything.

It's early for that. Who do you think in the pre-draft process, because there's always a quarterback that rises, has a chance for everyone to fall in love it? Because it seems like that the tapehead just think Malik Willis's ceiling is going to be higher and that he seems like the logical guy that is going to go way higher than anyone is projecting, at least in January and February.

Well, I think he is because, but it's not because of anything on tape. His tape's not all that good, to be honest with you. I mean, three different games with three interceptions. The second half of the year was really terrible, frankly. It wasn't good, but the thing is he has rare size arm strength. His arm talent's like Jay Cutler arm talent, which is really, really high. I know Jay Cutler's for some reason kind of a bad word now, but Jake Cutler was ridiculously talented coming out and could throw the ball from slots and platforms that other people couldn't

and then he is what he is is a better runner than Jalen Hertz and this is my thing like I started thinking about this came to me when I was writing up Lamar Jackson back in 18 like a diamond bullet right between the eyes I said you know I was sitting in it hits so here I was 2018 I'm at my grandmother's house in Kansas right enough Lamar Jackson as it were in the socks you get as it were And then what happened was I started thinking, you know, Lamar's completion percentage, and I realized I just watched the Astros win a World Series, completely legally and fairly. Don't start. And I thought, you know, one of the things in baseball, they care less about strikeouts now,

and they care a lot more about home runs. And when you think of it that way, Lamar Jackson's a home run hitter who's going to strike out some. But you live with the strikeouts because you get the home runs. And when you look at it that way, Malik Willis's flaws that he has right now, you can never go wrong with a guy who is an elite runner and he's an elite runner because even when they don't throw the ball they find ways to beat you and I mean he is a really fantastic runner not to Lamar's level but just below it and then from an arm town standpoint

I think he has better potential than Lamar Jackson as a thrower but Lamar was more consistent coming out of Louisville so that's why they built their entire team around Lamar like that's the problem so if you drop Malik Willis are you going to make that kind of commitment one or two is there a bridge like that's why the free agency process and like what we heard today was such so depressing for those of us that want to see franchise quarterback movement it sounds like we're not going to get any of it so I think that's kind of where that that's why like to me there is some interest because it does feel like this group of people likes picket

this group of people likes wills I think there's a group of people that like Matt corral the most out of all these quarterbacks that feel like he's kind of the athletic he's got great arm talent so like that to me is that does add some intrigue i don't know where guys are going and that's the thing i don't know if they're going to go in the first i just wrote an article for nfl.com they every year that's it's the same article they plug a different quarterback here are the potential fits for tua here are the potential fits for willis but the thing that i found when i was writing it with twoa i had like three or four guys and then that with three or four teams and that was it with willis i i don't know i mean my leaders in the clubhouse were washing

and Pittsburgh, and then just below that in a different level. You have Pittsburgh trading up for... See, I think if he falls, I think Pittsburgh would consider trading up because I think that Kevin Colbert wants... I think it's a very interesting storyline to see if Colbert, his last draft,

does what Ozzy did in his last draft. We asked him about it on the show yesterday. And with his thoughts? Whether he felt any pressure. He gave us very little information on the front and then didn't really answer. Because you're cute. You want to laugh at a question?

Try this one on precise. Ready? Would you rather have any of these quarterback? in the draft or Mitchell Trubisky. Oh, that's a, oh, gross. That is an awful destiny. What is happening? We've avoided the weird.

I saw your tweet earlier. I did it just to twist your nipples a little bit. That's what I asked him the question. It's like, what happened? Like, Mitchell Trubisky didn't play a year, and then everyone who never gave up on the Mitchell Trubisky could actually be good has come storming back this off season. Ryan Pace is pumping his face.

I don't want to have to answer it. It's like he'll marry your daughter while. throwing for 6.3 yards per attempt. Yes, he will. Now, it's interesting because Mitchell Trubisky is almost in that Kirk Cousins level of his stats are way better than you think they are based on what people say about the guy. They were way better than I thought.

I got in an argument with my co-host on the radio, and he's like, Mitchell Trubisky's not that bad. I said, not that bad. But it's also he was the second pick of the draft. So, you know. And the Mahomes factor. And the Mahomes and that we watched him play 50 games. And that by watching those games,

You could see he was not nearly as good as those stats. The stats are irrelevant. But he is the next one. Everyone has this hope for a backup quarterback. And so the hope is maybe there's a resurrection of Mitchell Trubisky. I would rather, money, I would rather have somebody from this draft. I'd quicker wait for Jesus to come back around. Great.

I feel like Malik Willis might get a little bit of that. I think everyone thinks you can find a Josh Allen now. Like, just that you can, if you have that level of talent, don't worry about some of the tape and some of the numbers. and you can build the thing around. So you said something. Remember the pendulum swung away from that for a minute. Everybody was like, we got to stop basing this on trades.

We got to look at accuracy and make up. But coming off of these playoffs, especially when he looked like the best player. But remember when it was back-to-back small quarterbacks when it went, okay, Baker Mayfield. And Baker played well that first year. And then it's like, okay, Kyler Murray, we can buy into smaller quarterback from a system.

We can buy into it. Now Baker has, has, if Baker and Kyler, let's say, Matt Corral was in a draft immediately preceding those two. Matt Corral would be a more talked about quarterback right now because everyone would, their subconsciously would, because money hit the point. Right now off the Josh Al, the year of Josh Allen,

Malik Willis is the guy. And Justin Herbert. Malik Willis is the one who fits into it a little bit more than Kenny Pickett. So obviously two years ago, Justin Jefferson blows up. Jamar Chase obviously this year. Now we're being told that this is not a draft that has that type of transcendent talent but in our league it's not unusual now for a rookie to pop off immediately and be a big time player is there a skill player tight end wide receiver that you can see stepping into the right

offense and becoming a pro bowl player it feels like it's a good wide receiver draft it's it's got some depth yeah it's got some depth i don't the last two years were way deeper i thought last year was a fantastic wide receiver draft um see i think chris oliva is a guy who can work all three levels of the field and can be a possession guy a touchdown guy a speed guy he strikes me me is one that could do that. I think, you know, James a hundred percent could have been if he were healthy. So for, you know, fantasy football guys, from a dynasty standpoint, you obviously want to keep him in mind. But I don't think, I think Garrett Wilson is going to

take a little longer than some people think, because he has a hard time getting off press, and that's the first thing you have to learn to do in the NFL. And sometimes it takes time. And I don't know what money's thoughts are on this, because you're on the West Coast watching Pack 12. That's what I, you know, I talked to a scout on the West Coast who loves him, and I don't see a guy who I think runs very fast. I don't see a guy who separates. But for me, as an evaluator,

I watched DeAndre Hopkins just murder the league, and you could have said similar things. But I thought he was a little bit more sudden with some of his movements. And so I don't know where to place a six-foot-five receiver who wins all the jump balls. He's just so explosive. I mean, I think that's the thing is the juice doesn't show up, but what's the old Marty Schottonheimer line?

He's going to be eating Doritos off. your head. I mean, that's what Drake Lundon did. I saw a dunk the other day. I saw a windmill and I was like, okay. That's what I'm saying. He's got that kind of a explosion. I immediately wanted to go rewrite the scouting report because I said, okay, I better, I need to go put that magic word explosive. I think he's going to show out. I need to put explosive in there. How about this wide receiver? I was listening to him today. He is someone that grew up watching Westerns with his great grandparents. The Good Bad and the Ugly was one of the first movies he ever saw. He's He had a huge game against Alabama.

He spent times hunting... He hunted pigs with a knife. Trailin Berks. This is my dude. Yeah. I'm looking at Mark's notes. Just in case he forgot, he put in green highlighted words

next to Traylon Burks, man crush. Love it. He just seems to fit in that street spot in the middle. He didn't trust himself to remember that, but it just sets. He was like number one on a bunch of lists at the start of this whole process. He's still number one. You still your number one guy?

People who don't have him number one, they don't know what they're doing. See, you got the right man crush. You got the right crush. A, I didn't know he hunted a hog with his bare hands and a knife. That's awesome. I just raised him to number four on my list. So thank you for that information. That's, by the way, the next thing Greg will be doing as his alpha male tendencies ramp up.

Yeah. Let's not lose control on that front. Now, the westerns thing, I'm going to back him back down a little bit. But Traylon Burks is like six. He's 225-ish pounds is what he's going to be. he's got more wiggle than A.J. Brown. A.J. Brown is his comp, but he's got more wiggle. He's phenomenal with the ball in his hands.

He's tremendously competitive, but he's a physical specimen. Like A.J. Brown, when you see A.J. out there. And everyone comes up with the same comp, A.J. Brown. Because when you see him, guys who are 225 pounds who play like he does, you don't see a lot of those guys in the league. But he's not somebody who played in a slot. Now, he played a lot in a slot for Arkansas, because that's the way they wanted to get in a ball as quickly as possible

and said, go, Treylon, go. and he is you've got the right man crush to me he is far and away the best wide receiver in this draft far and away how's that for sizz it's good how about you like it who's the guy that you have a man i have bias i always have bias you know i mean when wide receivers are like drake london i'm biased i like that i fight for the west coast we don't get enough attention when it comes to college football conversation your california produces the best players it drives me crazy um birch is impressive. I mean, he's going to be all mussely and people are going to decide he's going to put up big numbers. The tight end group is good. Who am I going to mention? Greg Dulcich, because it's the

West Coast. But he's going to run really fast. He's going to run crazy fast. Is there anyone in the next couple days, you know, we're taping this before the, you know, the Combine events start that you think will just like become the story because of what they put out there? Well, I think Greg is one of, Greg Dulcich is one of those guys from UCLA because DJ's getting hot on him now. And so it's going roll downhill because DJ's going to be talking about him a lot. He's going to run really fast. And then tell us how that bothers you. You're going to, I mean, listen, DJ, listen, DJ deserves all the credit he gets.

But the thing is, a lot of people, he has to step on a lot of people's backs to get all the way. Wow. He's the wholesome assassin. Listen, I know, I know he, did you see him come in today with the sweater just to give it a little like, hey, it's just me, guys. And I know he's got beef with you guys. I assume.

Sure. I'm going to take up my headset. And while you keep that up, I got to get out of it. You know, that is the voice of the Chargers, by the way. And his play-by-play man with him is. Hey. I love DJ. We go back and forth on players all the time.

No, he's done a great job. Like, when he put Justin Herbert 20th in the draft, he's fantastic. Never fails. This, I mean, that has got to be at least the 30th time you have referenced that. A bridge builder. It's good to have a running day. But think about it. Like, Lance, one heartbeat away here.

You are almost in the big chair now. No, and listen. Mayock floating on the periphery here. I wish it wasn't you that had the chicken-fried steak with cream gravy. I wish it was Daniel Jeremiah than that. Okay? Daniel, would you like some more of this skillet bread with butter? I'll give you a name that no one's talking about.

And it's because I saw him at the NFLPA bowl. And from the, I would say, the first five minutes of the first practice I was at, I was like, the hell is that guy here? And it was Sam Williams of Ole Miss. And Sam is going to test well. He is going to test through the roof. he's going to get drafted in the third round and by the Chiefs and everyone's going to be like,

why did he slide and you'll find out why he slid and it's just like he is a complete freak of a defense event. He terrible against the run and a monster against the past. Like just really good. Another big test is going to be from West Coast, Kyler Gordon from,

so Trent McDuffie's going to test well. Kyler Gordon, I don't know if you know his background. Do you, where's your, do you have notes on him that are highlighted? You know, I did, but it's in a different file back at the hotel room. The way the Wi-Fi went down. Listen, Cessler. Let's get your highlighter out here. He was a dancer.

And when I say dance, like, at eight years of age, they said they believed he was going to be a Broadway dancer. That's how, like a stage dancer. He was heavily involved in Kung Fu. He was heavily involved in Kung Fu as well. And he will also knock your face off. He's going to jump about 42 inches vertical. So dancer, Kung Fu.

That sounds man-crush-worthy. Yeah. When you said bra, I thought you were to say the bullshoy, and then all of a sudden Broadway came out and I was like Broadway. No, boy show. No, it could have been either one. This is how talented he was. The Texans have their men.

All right. Then excellent, gave us a nice taste, getting us on our feet a little bit as we try to figure out and navigate this. Balo, obviously, Lance and Money all over NFL network and the dot com throughout this process. The app, don't forget the app, you know. The app, of course. A lot of action on the app for us this week. That's right.

Money, thank you for taking care of me on the way out at Prime last night. We'll do it again tonight. Sounds good. And Lance, you're a hero. And the Astros did cheat. The Astros did cheat. Let's stop. We're leaving. Listen.

No or not. We're getting one more. All right. Here it comes. Are you sure? You should have said no because I probably wanted to put up a fight. But anyway, then you got that story. So you got your money's worth.

All right. Thank you. Lance, money. There they go. Those men are educated on the topic at hand. Well, even if they weren't, we wouldn't know. I mean, they're able to sell it, but we don't, I don't know it. Right, it would have been funny if they just decided before the segment,

we're just going to throw out fake names. Just snow us under. And we wouldn't have stopped them. Oh, yeah, you know, Kyle Krabowski. Like you look a little closer at the URL of his mock draft and it's not actually NFL.com. It's like, MFL.com. It's like, oh, no. No, that was good, though.

It's interesting when you start to kind of dig in and get excited with, the mock dress, with your teams and whatnot. By the way, what do you want for the Patriots to come out of the first round of the draft? I haven't thought about that. I guess a wide receiver. Just because they keep messing it up. And one thing I was thinking about

talking with Lance and money, it's like if you're a GM, you should just draft wide receivers. The last two years, if you've drafted a wide receiver in the first three rounds, almost all of them have been incredible and better than their draft pick except for Nikiel Harry. Like, literally almost everyone has outperformed their draft pick. You got like Terry McLaurin in the third round.

You got a million different people. And they've all, like, been drafted too late. Like, all the receivers are good, except for Nikiel Harry. They've done a bad job with Whiteouts for ages. And I'll raise you at Denzel Mims. It's not. He was fine. He's been fine.

Not always. But my point, that the hit rate's been high. The receivers have been great. And they need him. So that would make me most excited. Dan, why I do have a question, though, you, the whole dinner thing, Did you come home to a bag full of shake shack that you ate at a later time? You had already purchased a nice dinner.

Listen, a lot of mistakes were made last night. And all I can tell you is I paid for all of it in the morning. But again, the true measure of a man, the true measure of a man as a broadcaster as a pro in this city, this time of year, is do you rise to the occasion the next day? Or do you stay and pull the curtains closed and call out sick? So what time were you? As a young journal, I witnessed some things early on in the combines before I even knew you guys

that I was amazed by the performances of some people. It had a much tougher schedule than we do. Well, sometimes it has been us, though. I mean, in the past, just to be totally accurate. Yes. So, no, that was a tough night, but we have recovered, and I'm looking forward for our final evening in Indianapolis. It's a lot of fun here, and I do hope that we will be back.

eventually down the line, but it's been a fun ride here in Indy. Probably not next year, but I expect to be back. And if we're away one or two years, that'll only make it sweeter. Like this year is a little sweeter after missing. Greg is a little wind-up doll that the league is going to love his answer. It's true. I mean, this is the best place to do it, but they're going to change the game on us. I like my job, because if you don't, it takes up all of your day

and then you just don't like life. I still find the answer lacking authenticity, but that's We can move forward All right, so that's it from Indy However, we have one more show coming this week It's the Free Agency 101 special Greg's annual list on dot com

And we are going to pull it apart like putty Then light it on fire Then get an extinguisher out Hose it down and then mold it back together Keep it safe Put it right back on the shelf where it was originally I'd like to do a 2.0. I thought about that for the first time, actually.

Interesting. Why not? Because I immediately, I had some people responding to the 101, you know, and some people I trust, multiple people. And I immediately was like, oh, yeah, well, they're right. I should, I should move him up or down. And it's like I would like to, I have more information now. Like Teddy Bridgewater somehow being about 70 spots higher than Andy Dalton. Like there's that much difference between Teddy Bridgewater and Andy Dalton. Save it.

Same for Friday. Just so now you know it's coming, baby. Like a freight train. I can't believe what you said to Lance, by the way. Lance, let's go. You barked at him. I mean, no one, unless you have some sort of, like, fragile ego is going to take that personally. It was just like telling him, let's do it.

Let's go. Well, you're the former boss who sometimes forgets that you're the former boss. You don't bark at a, he's a coworker of yours. And when you say that nobody, nobody on the point. land it would be offended by that. I'm saying you're misreading the entire room. If someone is offended, that's their problem. Oh, you're pulling the old, I'm sorry if you

were offended card. I'm not. I'm not sorry. I'm not sorry. This is what Dan and I were dealing with for half a decade, just to let the listener know. All right, thank you everybody for listening. See you Friday. Until then, this is the old Zusser.

The old boss. An old Mark Sessler with Ricky Hollywood. Until Friday, You know what to do. He'd the call. Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters.

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