NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Dak, Geno Shine in TNF Fireworks Show

Episode Date: December 1, 2023

In a virtual room hero Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Steven Ruiz of The Ringer to recap the Week 13 Thursday Night Football matchup between the Cowboys and the Seahawks. First, we take a look at Dak and the Cowboys performance (3:20). Next, we examine the Seahawks offensive performance and late game decisions (13:15). And finally, we look at Pete Carroll and the state of his team (27:31). Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Smith. Fires over the middle. Great grab by Matt Camp out in front. And he will go all the way for a touchdown. 73 yards. To the left. Looks toward lamb.

Shoulder shake. Throws. That's going to be caught by Ferguson. Touchdown. Locked. It comes to the slot. Here comes Parsons, and he forces the pass incomplete, and that will wrap it up.

That will wrap up a 41 to 35 Cowboys victory on Thursday night football. Maybe you couldn't tell it from Al's voice there, but we got the best Thursday night game of the year. Maybe ever. Maybe ever. Who knows? I'd have to go through it. We got the perfect guest for it, too.

It's Stephen Ruiz of the Ringer, who's been doing yeoman's work all around the podcast land. It's Stephen Ruiz week. And what better game to have them on for than the Gino and Dak are our gods among us showcase. Thank you, Stephen. I texted you right after that Gino touchdown to open the game. He knew I was coming on today. He's going to give us a show. Yeah, the last time you came on was the, was the, uh,

you know, he don't write back game for Gino. So it's been too long. And this was a great Gino game, but it does feel a little beside the point to start with Gino. The Cowboys put up 41 points in a shootout in a game that there were no punts, according to Scott Hansen's researcher at Red Zone and whom I to doubt his researcher at Red Zone. It's only the fourth game in the history of the NFL to have no points. Five, if you include the Colts, Chiefs, Peyton Manning versus Dick Vermeal and Trent

Green Showdown in 2004. That was like my first season covering the league. That was exciting. This was just a preposterously great offensive performance by both quarterbacks, both teams. But to me, we start with just like the majesty, I would guess, of Dak Prescott right now, that he just has an answer for everything opposing defense, especially to see Hawks' Debt. defense was trying to do. Yeah, I thought Seattle played well defensively. There was a lot of talk about the Sacks. They didn't get a stop. I mean, considering that, they were putting him under

pressure. Now, he was making tight window throws. I really think there's an alternate universe where you put two other quarterbacks into this game and they have to handle that pressure that both quarterbacks had to deal with all day. And it looks horrible. And we don't get anywhere close to 35 to 31 or whatever the final score ended up being. That was, I thought the two quarterbacks were the story of the game. And do you watch, do you watch on the prime vision that gives you like the All-22? I do enjoy that. I got a little Schwarzene action in my life. Right, right.

I love that. It was just a magical performance from that view, too. It really allowed you to appreciate what these guys were doing. Yeah. Early on, you know, I'm thinking, man, these Cowboys receivers are open. As the game wore on, I'm with you. The pressure built up. The windows got a little tighter.

But DAC specifically, and I misspoke by saying, saying they didn't get a single stop, the Seahawks defense. There was one stop all night by the Seahawks defense. And that was in, I'm counting it now, nine drives, not counting the kneel down drives. And that was just when C.D. Lamb dropped a ball, a wide open, just, you know, short pass on fourth down. Otherwise, there literally would not have been a drive that the Cowboys did not score on. And the thing that impresses me is he just, he just has answers for everything.

like I think of actually a fourth in one situation where he checked out of the play two different times where they were clearly going to try to stop the sneak up the middle then I don't know what he saw the second time but he checked it again and he checked it to the perfect play a run to the outside and they get it so even on plays where he's not throwing the ball he's just kind of seeing everything you're doing

and he's making all the right decisions and he's not missing any throws I mean he was just on the money with just about every throw tonight. And then I think he's adding on top of that, like the old school DAC creation stuff out of, out of structure. He is the best quarterback in the league statistically out of structure. Not Josh Allen, not Patrick Mahomes, not LeVar Jackson, none of these guys. Dak Prescott. What do you mean? Like out of the pocket or plus two and a half seconds? How do they measure that? Out of the pocket and PFF, according to PFF, when the defense,

the pass for us, forces the quarterback to move off of his spot. So it's not a straight dropback. He is the best in the NFL by PFF grade. He's, He's got like a low 90s grade. The next highest guy is like in the 70s. It is ridiculous. And I do think his season changed on that Sunday night game against the Chargers where he ran for that touchdown. And I think he ran the play before on a play that actually he normally wouldn't have this

year. He scrambled. He came up just short on like a third and nine or something to set up a fourth and one. And he put his head down and I was like, ooh, there's Dak running again. That's what we always want. And I swear since then, the rushing yards aren't crazy. Like tonight it's 23, but there's four plays where he helps himself with his legs running, which is just a really important four plays.

And then as you say, also just making great decisions outside the pocket, which he did, you know, on a number of throws tonight. It was just like unless you have just an elite pass rush and the Seahawks just don't. It's hard to think of how you're going to get this guy down. And it's tough against this Cowboys. offensive line, which is playing really well. That's why I would say, like, I thought that defense didn't play too badly, and I didn't think the defensive game plan was too bad, because I thought the way they got to Dak Prescott was blitzing. There was a lot of, like, corner pressures,

a lot of, like, zone pressures. And I thought Seattle's approach to the game, they're thinking going into the game was, we're not going to get to DAC unless we play, like, a reckless style, and that's our only chance of being in this game. It didn't work out, but I think it, like, make sense as a strategy going into it. And I think if they would have just rushed four and dropped back seven, Dak would have picked them apart. I mean, we're both Gino fans. And because of that, I've become a quasi-Ciox fan.

Maybe you haven't gone that far. And so the defense was frustrating me. Yes, they're sending a lot of blitzes, but they can never finish them. They're just bouncing off of them. There's that play, Daryl Taylor, who's not like a safety? I mean, he's a defensive end, has him in a bear hug. And I don't know what happened. And the play, that just like shrugs him off.

And that would have been, like, there were so many plays like that. Adams had another one. Whereas like, if they could just bring him to the ground or bring some of the receivers that caught the ball behind the line of scrimmage occasionally to the ground, it's like they would have them in big time negative yardage situations. And they just couldn't do it. And so again, once that Chargers game happened, I was like, wow, he played just about perfect game, that game.

And then the next week, he's like, perfect that week. And people weren't really picking up. on it yet because they were playing lesser teams and the record wasn't as good then but he's he's almost been throwing like a perfect game every week since week six it's great he he at this point is I think going to come out of this week you know one of if not the MVP front runners which is crazy because he was like plus 3,000 three weeks ago and it's high degree of difficulty it's not like he's like he's like dinking and dunkin out there he's throwing like these covered seam balls these tight window passes uh he's throwing on the run he's throwing out of structure he's throwing with guys

hanging off of him like we saw tonight, he's up to his game another level. And I think he's finally starting to get credit for stuff he already did well. Like, he's finally starting to get credit for like the pre-snap stuff and being that brain before the snap. Like you heard Kirk Herbst tonight kind of compare him to Peyton Manning in the pre-snap phase. And I think that's apt. And I think it's something he never got credit for. And one of the reasons I think he's so polarizing as a player, even though he's been this like steadfast winner and guy who produces at a high level since he's entered the league, beyond being a Dallas Cowboys quarterback and everything that comes with that, is that it's kind of hard to appreciate the things he's really good at because they're so

subtle, especially if you're not watching week to week and you're not watching like the film and you don't really like understand what's going on pre-snap. I just think like if we gave him that credit, I don't think we would be having these debates about Dak Prescott every offseason. I've been trying to, I've been trying to give him that credit. I brought up the manning, you know, that he, I don't think he's Manning or, or Brady, but as that generation was still playing, but aging out, I was like, well, he's the, he's the guy that's of the young generation that's like the most like that. Like, he's the, he's the quarterback's quarterback. He's, he's how, you know, Greg Cosell wants the game to be played inside the pocket and figuring it out out mentally. And it's

all coming together. And he's had, he had, he's at an age where it's all perfect. He's got a unreal number one receiver. And I think this game is going to be important for him just in the way, not important for him in terms of what you're saying he's playing great nothing needs to change but MVP race and then their playoff race and even as a team they were really tested in this game by a good opponent I know Seattle was struggling coming into this game but their offense certainly wasn't struggling tonight like I don't know if a team is going to beat up this cowboy's defense any better than the Seahawks did tonight and so DAC was really pushed in this game The score was 28 to 20 coming out a halftime once Gino got the kickoff

and to start the second half went right down the field to go 28 to 20. Cowboys get it closer. And then the Seahawks score again to DK to start the fourth quarter. And so it's 35 to 27. He has to make a fourth quarter comeback. They have the field goal drive. They have another touchdown drive there by DAC. And then they tack on the field goal.

So just kind of like those situations that I know, like they shouldn't need to pass these tests, but they do need to because they need to win some close games. It's not just going to be blowouts in the playoffs. And they found a way to do that even though I have some issues with Mike McCarthy's game management. And we can get to that in a minute. It sort of doesn't matter when you only face, I think they only had four third downs in the second half. I mean, that's the thing. These two teams put up these score with very few possessions. You know, it wasn't like a 13-12 possession game where they put up these numbers.

Like they had almost no margin for error and he hit it. And he could have actually had more. There was that CD drop on fourth down. And then one of the best throws he had the night, which was the field goal drive in the fourth quarter that came up short, which looked like a crazy pass. He put it between three people, but it got to CD and he actually didn't bring it down in that scenario. That's why I was like watching the end of the game. And I was like, no matter how this ends, it's going to be very disappointing for one of these teams. It's going to be very disappointing for us for having to, like, come up with losers in this game.

Because I just thought it was played at such a high level that even if Dallas had lost, I don't think I would have come on here and been like, oh, they're frauds or everything we thought they were. Like, Gino just played so well and under pressure, too. It's not like Dallas made it easy on him. At one point in the fourth quarter, he was like 11 for 12 under pressure and averaging 10 yards per attempt. Yeah. Like that's insane. Nobody does that.

Let's get to the Gino portion. We've put it all off long enough. But I'm with you. Like there are no big losers here. I'm going to be a little annoyed about the Seahawks defense later just in terms of roster construction and everything. And some of the game management stuff and Jason Myers missed another important kick in this game.

But just in terms of the way this season shapes up before we move to Gino, it's like it was absolutely vital though. They got this win to stay in the NFC East race. still think they can win this division because I just think, you know, the Eagles are underdogs this week. And then the Cowboys are probably playing for, are playing for first place next week. And so that's like, it doesn't get much bigger than that. They actually do have it right there in front of them. I know their schedule is brutal. So it'd be hard to finish that out. But there's a very real chance that they're in first place in the NFC East with, and they're going to have

extra rest going into that Eagles game in 10 days. Whereas the Seahawks, it felt like this was their chance to sneak one in here during this brutal stretch and they couldn't get it done. And it's so surprising to me, Stephen, that they put up 35 points in the first 50 minutes of this game. Their offensive line and everything going into this game and their offensive cohesion did not indicate that this performance was coming. No, I did not expect this performance and I did not expect it because of that matchup, the offensive line versus the defensive line. And Dallas's defensive line, despite not getting a lot of sacks, they did get pressure. And I thought they one for the most part.

I thought Shane Waldron, the offense coordinator, called the great game. I didn't like the calls at the end. I thought he kind of, that's one thing. That's my one thing against Waldron is that he gets a little galaxy brain that time. He kind of out thinks himself a little bit. I don't know what that last play was, but it kind of looked like a screen pass, like a late slip screen pass, which is an interesting call in fourth and, what was it, fourth and five with the game on the line.

Fourth and two, yeah. Fourth and two. And it gets blown up. and it never really had a chance. Well, no, yeah, Parsons got there and the next-in stats measured it in 1.3 seconds. I mean, it was Parsons. Yeah, they tried to like totally unblocked.

I'm not sure where the protection went wrong, whether that was supposed to be the running back. It went wrong somewhere. They needed to reset. I don't know, like, who that's on that. It's happened more than you would want to for the Seahawks this year. And yeah, to get into that position, and there were a couple drives in the fourth quarter

where they turned it over on downs and they were in short-yarded situations. After having such a good night on third down, finally, they've been a terrible third down team all year. They kind of went back in the crucible to just a couple bad plays there on third and one, fourth and one. I'm also thinking about the drive before. The same thing happened.

It was good to see Gino adjust because there has been talk about him getting the ball out quicker. And I think that is one thing you saw. You saw him make that adjustment. And I think it would have been a big red flag if you heard that talk from Gino. You heard that talk from the offensive coordinator. And then he couldn't do it. so I think that like I think this was a

I don't think it obviously it derails whatever playoff hopes Seattle had or kind of but they still got it they still got it but it's still have a chance but it hurts it hurts they had an opportunity tonight for but I think this is a good sign for the for the team going forward like I think like that Gino

still has these moments when he can he can light up a game and he can match a MVP candidate throw for throw right and you know statistically he've been getting rid of the ball about the same time this year the pressure just been getting there faster. He's been avoiding sacks much better.

Actually, he's, that used to be, you know, one of the worst parts of his game last year, even in his breakout was still like below average, but not terrible. This year, it's pretty good. And you saw that tonight. Like, if you had looked at the box score, you would have no idea. And I know Parsons got three QB hits, but you would have no idea that Parsons kind of dominated this game. And Lawrence had a good game too because Gino was getting rid of the ball.

I mean, some of those dimes early to D.K., it was also great to see D.K. a game like this because I think the Thanksgiving game kind of encapsulated what's been a really disappointing season for D.K. Not winning contested catches. Just being kind of a little lazy with his routes on the sidelines, stuff like that. And tonight he was like, he was DK what you imagine him to be. That first dime that Gino threw to him just felt like it like kind of freed the two of them. And he threw so many good passes tonight. It was, it was a beautiful thing. I mean, being Gino guys, to have him out this night in an island game, it did feel like a release for me, a little weight off my shoulders, you know.

And I like how you got to see him thrive under pressure. Like you've got to see that this is what he's been dealing with all year. He's been dealing with this type of protection and receivers that I don't think have been running great routes. And it's kind of hard to say when you're outside of the building, but there's been a lot of miscommunications. I think that's the best way you could put it. And you didn't really see that tonight.

Like, you saw Gino get rid of the ball and the receivers ended up where they were supposed to be. And the ball ended up where it was supposed to be. I think if this team could find any consistency, they might look like the team we see when they're at their highest. Like, when they have these breakout performances, because they are capable of it. We've seen it like a handful of times over the last two years, just stringing them together. Right. And defensively, they have so many players. You would think that they can have some better games than the ones that they have.

they've had, and I'll get into it a minute, but they've just been a sub-mediocre defense, like a very below-average defense, and you saw it tonight. But if they can get their offense going like this, they did have Abe Lucas back in the run game, which, you know, maybe that helps Zach Charbonnet, though, was 19 for 60. He did have a 39-yard catch, too, but he left late with a knee injury and was immediately ruled doubtful, which that is not a great sign. Maybe Kenneth Walker's back next week. But Smith and Jigba made some play. plays until he had that miscommunication on the turnover on downs on the on the drive before the last one. And lock it, I think one of the plays Seahawks fans are going to remember is the

Cioxx are up 35 to 30. They're driving. They mean, right? They had the ball up 35 to 30 to possibly kick a field goal to go up eight halfway through the fourth quarter or even, you know, score a touchdown and kind of put the game away. And Gino has one of his. his best anticipation throws the of the night. It gets there, you know, after Lockett, you know, makes his turn. And it hits him right in the helmet. And Gino gets sacked the next play. Right.

Or it was a, maybe it was a pressure and a throwaway the next play. But that drive ended right there. And they would have been in field goal range on one of the better Gino passes of the night. They're robbing our boy, Stephen. They really are. And I feel like we're talking about how well these quarterbacks played. I don't think the receivers played all that well outside of D.K. Now we're sounding like we're just like it's a pro Gino thing.

I mean, there were a lot of drops. There were a lot of balls that hit people here. There were some drops. Fant had a nice catch. I mean on both sides. I mean, on both sides. Yeah, on both sides, certainly. There were some drops.

I mean, Smith and Jigba, I like that he's getting more consistent. He had the touchdown that was overturned on review, but at least he drew a long PI on that call. There were a lot of PI calls. And we'll hit that. But first, we're going to take a break. Okay, we're back. You know, I mentioned before the break.

I mean, the penalties were a huge story of this game. There were 257 penalty yards, Stephen, in this game. That is the most. For a game in regulation, since Bears Bill's 2018, which I don't have, it was in November. I don't have an immediate recollection, but likely a Mitch Tribesky, Josh Allen showdown. Ethan Peterman. Oh, was it? Wait, really?

Yeah, I think it was a Nathan Peterman special. Al Michaels commenting tonight on the penalties. Let's listen. We're going to take the rest of the night off to the clique, Blakeman call the game. You buy him? Sure. I was getting so mad.

I don't know if he was having, occasionally he has like senior moments, but like he literally said like, oh, and guess what's next? When the flags came out, like on four straight plays at one point. point in the third quarter. He was just like beside himself. I mean, Al, this was a great performance, a throwback performance for Al in my opinion. He was back and Gino and Dak. He was right

there with him. I'll, I'll buy that. I would like a little more excitement there at the end. I would like, it's more of a Herb Street thing, but there were a lot of game management situations at the end of the game that were very interesting. And they didn't really like go over ahead of time or even afterwards, you know, the Cowboys had the ball. We might as well talk about it now. They had the ball after they turned the Seahawks over on downs and they get it with two, let's see how long it was left in the game. They get it with 143 to go.

And they basically, or no, sorry, they get it with 3.11 to go. That makes more sense. At the Seahawks 49-yard line. And two first downs, basically wins the game there. And they immediately get into the red zone on that drive. And they get into a situation where it's third and three. The Seahawks are all out of timeouts.

And there's 140, maybe a little more left on the clock. And they throw a pass from, I think it was the 14, into the end zone. I know it's one-on-one CD Lamb and he's been so great tonight, but it wasn't really close. He was well covered. The ball was, you know, it was kind of through it a safe pass to make sure it didn't get interception. And it's incomplete. And I love being aggressive, but that's actually not being aggressive.

That's just, that was just bad game management. If they run the ball there, it goes under a minute. And you run the ball there because it's fourth and three. And you kind of plan on you run the ball twice and you win the game and it's over with. And if you don't get it the second time, it's under a minute left and they're inside like the 10 yard line or the 13th yard line. I thought that was crazy by McCart. Now, that's always the thing with McCarthy, right? Like, every time I'm starting to think McCarthy's turning it around, like, getting

DAC to play like this is an accomplishment. I have to give him credit. I'm not going to take credit away for doing that. But these are the moments where you're like, uh-uh, like, that's going to come up in the playoffs. And I don't think he's going to make the right decision. Like, there was even like a two-point conversion chance earlier in the game. And I don't know what the analytics say about it, but a lot of people were wondering why

they didn't go for it to tie up. Yeah, it was 20, 26. It was like, why were you not going to? for two at that moment. And then I, for me, it's not, later and they got it later. It's not just McCarthy. Like, I got questions about Dan Quinn. Hmm.

Okay. And it's the same questions that anyone would have about Dan Quinn and that like style of defense that we've seen like, we see it in Seattle. Like that cover three lineup and play, we're not going to like do anything to trick you. I just think it's a defense that can be schemed up. And it's a defense that can be exploited by the best quarterbacks in the NFL. And in order to win a Super Bowl, you have to beat the best quarterbacks in the NFL. And that's my worry.

Yeah, it's a fair point that like the Cowboys defense has been great this year. I mean, it hasn't been like Ravens Browns level and it's got great talent. But this is the first game in a long time. And granted, they haven't played many great offenses. You know, they did a pretty good job, I thought, against the Eagles overall. They gave more points. and they should have, but it was, they played well. It was disarming to see like a team go up and down the field,

throwing the ball on them. I mean, Duran Bland, Michael said, gave up more yards in that first half than any cornerback in any half of football all year. So his defensive player of the year candidacy was always silly to me. I mean, give him an all pro. That's fine. But people were trying to talk that up this week. Like, that's over with now.

Even though he had an electric interoperable. interception. That was not even a bad throw by Gino. I didn't think. If anything, Bland just kind of bodied Lockett out of position on a play. Lockett, like had position when the ball was thrown and Blan made a great play. But Blan got cooked in this game. And you're right. Maybe the secondary, like, do you think there are holes here, like in the back seven essentially for, for Dallas. I do think it can be attacked. And I think if you can mitigate the pass rush, which I don't think Seattle did in any shape or form tonight. But I think there are teams that are capable of doing that like San Francisco, as we've seen, that I think it's going to be an issue.

And I don't think, like, Dan Quinn's style of defense offers you, like, schematic help. It's really relying on execution and talent and I think fundamentals, which is, like, a great way to play. And it makes sense with their talent. It's just when you run into offenses that can match your talent, it becomes a problem then. Yeah, because, you know, who, like, bland is playing outstanding. Gilmore's still a really solid starting corner. O'Digizua and the guys inside are good.

Parsons is just outrageous. I think I might, as great as Garrett's been, I'm still holding out my vote there. It's like we got a long way to go. And like in my heart, I still feel like Parsons is actually better and having a better season, even though it's not quite there.

So I'm allowing the possibility that he might just close really strong. And then Lawrence had a huge fourth down stop on Charbonate. It's just those little moments of the game where, like, their best players stepped up. Like Jake Bobo on a screen to play before. It looked like he had more yards to pick up. I mean, these are what you think about when you're a Seahawks fan. I'm a Quasi Seahawks fan now. What happened to me?

You don't get to claim that. Aren't you a Patriots fan? You don't get to claim that. I mean, I've, I jump on different teams depending on the year. And this Patriots team was dead. You start losing a little bit. I mean, my great friend, Chris Wesleyan, I mean, they already made fun to me. I remember saying even as the Patriots run was over, I was like, I'm not going to, I'm not

going to be as into it once Brady's gone. It's just like, because I know it'll never be the same. Like, what's the point of chasing that high? I mean, you're a Panthers fan. So you've had a tough week. That's why you've been busy. That's how I was with Cam. That's how once Cam left.

Like, I'm a panthers. Fans is a strong word is how I'll put it. You've been busy. They got you just like doing the whole podcast circuit. you did Mina's show. We should have coordinated me and Mina. So it's like it's maybe too much Ruiz for the people out there. Nah, nah, it's not enough.

Do people need more? Yeah, like, trog me out playing like Sarah McLaughlin music with like the sad puppies. Like, that's who I am. It is tough. What is, what is your opinion of the, here we go? Sure. Yeah, here we go. Like, do you hear it while you're walking around?

Is it just like part of your life like it is mine at this point? It is. And I didn't really notice it until people started pointing it out. I always felt like Cam Newton had a weird one too. So I'm like kind of partial to them and I don't hate it like everyone. What were Cam's? He was always high in my cadence ringings. He had a nice deep voice, but I can't think of them right off the top man. I think it was similar. I think it might have been here we go. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. It was like it was it was like ready. It was something like yeah. Ready. But it nice and deep. And in Dax just got that base. Yeah. It really. started for me in the Rams game. I don't know why I didn't notice it before then. I still want to get on Pete Carroll before we go. Just because of the way they've built this team. Like as I see Jamal Adams getting pressures but not really finishing the play on those blitzes. And when I see him like in position but not doing anything about the ball when the ball's in the air and they're throwing it to Jake Ferguson to win the game and there were other plays like that. And I think about

what they gave up for Adams. I know he's gotten hurt. And Wagner has been good, but he'll get frozen a little bit in coverage, like on that first tight end, and that first touchdown. He's not even moving. And then, you know, Darrell Taylor's bouncing off him. And I just think of all the picks and they traded that pick for Leonard Williams his second round pick. And I just think they came into this game 23rd in DVOA. I know it's the Cowboys, but the Cowboys

looked as good or better against this defense than they've looked against anyone. So that net number is going to go down to like 26. It's a defensive coach. They've been above average one time, Stephen, since 2017 in terms of DVOA. And they were 13th that year in the COVID year. So even that year, it's not like they were great. It's like, I don't know. I don't really believe in building around defense anyways, but they've put too much into it to me

for this whole thing to make any sense. because they often, like, it's, you've got like a good quarterback, but you don't have, you don't have a top five quarterback. You need your defense in running game to help out. Yeah, it's tough. I think Pete Carroll's a good head coach, but I agree with it. It's kind of like the Belichick thing where you got to separate the coach from the team builder. I think he's a good coach too.

And it's not like a total thing. It's just their defense is disappointing. Like it's, it's very often. and less than the sum of their parts. And he's a defensive coach. It's never more than the sum of their parts. You would think just by randomness, they would luck into like a number six defense season one of these years.

But they don't. I'm really surprised they're below average. I'm surprised. No, like, and that was kind of the point I was going to make. I think like the thing that we kind of overrate with Carol maybe is his defensive mastery or whatever you want to call it. Like, I think that's the overrated part. I think the way like he motivates a locker room and keeps a team.

together. I think that's the secret stuff. But like his best defense is, I mean, give me five Hall of Famers and I can give you like a top 15 defense at least. Like he had Earl Thomas and he had Richard Sherman and that like that wasn't even how his reputation was built. His reputation was built on like the 90s 49ers who had like 10 Hall of Favorers on their roster. Well, he did it at USC too and it was like it was the right defense for that time. They had talent on that team too though. Right, right. And it's the it's the Belichick Brady argument. It's it's the Walsh like

it's always symbiotic like that's football that was the right he was the right coach for those groups of players and he and he was right to target the certain body types and he hit he hit the lottery and he made it like maxed it out you know except for uh finishing out that Super Bowl against Patriots but you know he maxed it up but that was a five year run in the in the defense you know it's it's no longer happened by the way did you notice the moment then they had fourth and one at the end the half? No. They threw it.

Seattle threw it again. Right. And they threw the slant. It was like their same route combination too. They threw the slant. Gina competed the slant. Russ couldn't complete it. Difference in the Super Bowl.

Right. And man, now I forget, because I was running around at one point and then caught back up. The Seahawks also ran like the same concept as the Patriots go ahead touchdown in the Super Bowl like pretty I mean that the Cowboys ran the same concept right against the Seahawks but basically the Patriots had run to go ahead so it was like a it was a fun little vintage night we got Dan Quinn we got it all this was beautiful we didn't have a punt we got all these penalties um this was it this was the game to have Stephen Ruiz on I appreciate it um Stephen where can we check out your work I know where it's the ringer

what days are your podcast on give me the give me the lowdown wednesdays in monday mornings okay in the ringer NFL feed you've got um the quarterback rankings yeah outstanding on wednesday we should have like a quarterback rankings off between you and uh our new uh kuby index writer nick shook i've read him i read his every week i i keep an eye on the competition oh yeah he he's great and he helps us out on our Sunday nights because look you you've been doing this while he's been doing it a while now too but just started the QB thing um but he's bigger than you like he's just like a intimidating looking guy like he's huge so all right then his his quarterback ratings are the best just know that no i just want i just wanted you know because you probably never seen him just like

check out um check out shook we call him the pipe um just check out like his little avi uh but yeah people should check out stephen uh i've been following his work now for for a while. Stephen is young and yet now he's a veteran. He's been in the game a while and people should read everything he writes and check them out on the podcast. That will do it for tonight. It was a fun one. It was a great one. It was great talking to you about it. Stephen Ruiz's week is over. But the podcast never ends. We will be back on Sunday with the Flag Tick Show. Until then, heed the call. This is an I-heart podcast.