NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Dak’s Deal, What You People Don’t Realize, & Sarah Thomas

Episode Date: March 11, 2021

A room filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal bring you all of the latest news around the NFL including Dak Prescott's big contract (11:20), the Chiefs rebuilding their offensive line (25:20), and the Saints are making some more moves (34:50). The heroes spin through some more cuts in the league (46:11) and drop some knowledge in one of our favorite segments,  "What YOU people don't realize" (49:52). Ricky Hollywood sits down with the first female official in the NFL, Sarah Thomas (1:16:20)Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast. Doesn't get the Bob Costis joke. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hance as I come to you from a virtual room filled with some heroes. Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal, a virtual room.

It has been, boys, for a year this week. In fact, it was one year ago on Saturday that we began the bunker casts. And it was the three of us and, of course, the great late. Chris Wessling. And I thought on this occasion... We did it on a Saturday? No, no, but it falls on a Saturday of the anniversary. Wow.

I thought to mark this passage of time to just check out how it all sounded when we did our first ever bunker cast with an added bonus of hearing Chris's voice. So let's hear what it sounded like one year ago this week. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast presented by Intuit QuickBooks official sponsor of the NFL. My name is Dan Hansis and I am joined in a city filled with heroes.

Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, Greg Rosenthal. Oh my goodness, what is up, boys. Hey, Dan. Oofa. This is an odd one. This is different territory for, well, I was going to say for the podcast, but then let me just, I'm going to pull that back, go above the tree tops, and say, human civilization, at least in modern culture. So here we are.

Well, I think we should explain where we are. We're in five different houses littered across the Los Angeles area on some Google hangout that Erica Tamposi did a great job setting out. There it is. Yes, Ricky, and welcome back, Ricky Hollywood. rigged a temporary setup to allow us to even do that, to do a remote show, which we'd never done one before.

And it's really funny as a time capsule boys to go back and check it out because first of all, I say at one point, well, we'll be here this week, probably back in the studio next week. I also say, oh, guys, sorry I missed. I didn't realize that I missed the previous show, the last show at the studio, because I had an illness,

which was probably almost definitely the coronavirus. virus that I had picked up. But at the time, I did not think, I didn't think that was the case. But it's pretty amazing. We're still doing this one year later and not amazing in a good way. Yeah, I feel uncomfortable hearing that. I'm glad it was a small portion. That's the first time I've heard my voice on our podcast since the last time you played it, it makes me want to puke. And I can only imagine. Yeah. Like, just the naivity. And I remember I was, we were pushing to do the daily bunker cast. It's like, this is something we're going to, like, look back and, like, remember

and what a cool, like, thing that we're going to stand apart and do this. And that's all fine. We'll, like, be doing it together. That's all fine. But I think part of that was, like, a thought of, you know, it's only going to be for a certain amount of time, a moment of time that we look back on. In hindsight, it's like, I don't know. If I had known we had been doing it for a year, I'd be like, okay, let's just keep

our normal schedule. Let's not get too crazy. Well, it was the start of free agency, and I thought we... Right, that part made sense. Right. Our method was to, like, no, everyone else was kind of shut down. And thanks to Erica and setting it up the way we did, I think we went, leaned into it hard. And I know that, you know, within days of Corona landing, I was renting Airbnbs and, like, just

enjoying the version of it that... Let's backtrack a little bit, because I have been gone a week. So what, like, do you guys realize that the show wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for me? And I think, I think Greg did a great job in that clip, you know, actually giving me some credit. And Mark, you did too. But Dan, and I think you should probably jump on now and just kind of, you know, talk a little bit about. Here we go. No, I was just, I was thinking that if we felt like we were boxed, then I could have given an El Cita call or Laceda call and we could have gotten straight down.

Well, this episode is deleted. It's true. No, it was amazing, Ricky. You were a huge part of getting us running and you helped the entire company because everybody was caught with their pants down, as it were. Right. I mean, the pandemic's really hurt, you know, the ability to produce podcasts if you look around the country. It's been like no one's been able to overcome this sort of challenge. Greg, do you know what kind of work it takes to make your nasally annoy? You say you want to puke when you listen to yourself?

What about the thousands and thousands of people that listen to the show? Do you know how much work I have to do? So they're not puking out their car windows, out their houses and their families? Are you insinuating that you auto-tune Greg's voice? Yeah. I mean, I have to. If he's going to throw digs, like you're going to get it right back. You know, listen, it's like a brother and sister of the two of them.

Live wire. And you'll notice also that, you know, I was listening to the first like six or seven minutes. Didn't hear a lot from Wes there. And it did make me think as we're very, you know, thinking back with Wes. And I was thinking how like the four of us as a team, if I'm, like all bombast and arena rock and mark is prog rock or maybe a jam band depends on what day you get him greg likes rap uh and then west west was like jazz you know he picked his spots and he filled the space with like smooth efficiency that was west and uh he would he would get that definitely the

highest pff score of the podcast because he didn't uh he didn't need to fill up the space like someone that's talking right now. Yeah, he's like, you know, he was a big NBA fan. I'm becoming more of one. You know, if he was an NBA play, he's like Joel L. Embed. It's like, he's efficient with those minutes, like efficient with you, you give him the ball like he's going to score. I mean, you have a, he was a spurs fan because he just loved their brand.

Tim Duncan, maybe he's Tim Duncan. That's a better comparison. West was the big fundamental of the podcast game. Anyway, that, that is Memory Road. We ended up doing 33 bumpings. bunker cast. That's what they were titled before just saying, oh, this isn't stopping. So we stopped calling them bunker cast. And here we are 12 months later. But we did it daily for, I think, through the draft. That was about the moment where we stopped. So that's, Mark makes a good point.

It was free agency that week. That makes sense. And we'll be hitting, you know, we'll, we'll have special coverage next week and everything. But to keep it going for six more weeks after that, that's maybe how I look back and like, well, I don't know if that really. I love Greg's just innate sort of just the way he is, is so nostalgic about past and just it's a man just who can't get the fond memories out of out of the memory bank there's a warmth when you look at warmth it's not about warm to be fair it's not about warmth it's don't you almost everything i do and this is more a personal thing but or but as a group and everything the only thing i look back on and just think and think about is the things that could

have been better that's maybe a bad way to you know the things we could have done better i'm joking about doing it every day but just in hindsight you know i think we've done done a few things adequately to inadequate level. And when I, and I look back at those shows and I did them, I was doing them in my garage, my rented garage. And I remember, I think back of those shows that like, it felt like there was a little bit of safety in numbers, because it was a very scary time. And everything was being turned upside down in a way that none of us had ever experienced before. And I think that's part of the reason we're like, let's do a show every day, because then there was the 30 to 45 minutes, probably an hour, where we were, you know, together and life was normal

on some level. So that's how I think. Yeah, that's absolutely true. I'm glad. I'm glad you said it that way. We've done this all together. We almost take it. We almost are used to it now. We are used to it that we've done this. But that's part of the reason, you know, Chris is passing. It is part of like this year, you know, this crazy pandemic year. My daughter is going to go to school next week for 90 minutes only for the entire week, by the way. But that'll be the first time she's in school and my son, you know, since, since that week. They have not been there once since, which was also a nice little bonus with the podcast. It gave us something to do that was not, you know, watching them while they're not in school. But it is, we're still so in the middle of it

that it's like we've gotten used to it and it's fucking crazy. So weird. So weird. And you heard Ricky's back and we're happy to have Ricky Hollywood back and thank you to Stephen Manny for helping out while she was gone. Erica sat down with Sarah Thomas, the first female official in NFL history. She actually became the first woman to officiate a Super Bowl last month. And Erica interviewed Ms. Thomas today and an old mark, an old nod to DDFP and how we got our humbles start with the ATL debate club. Ricky will be on the back end of the show with Sarah Thomas.

Looking forward to that, Erica. I know you were happy with how it turned out. Prime real estate. Good job. It was awesome. No, she was really cool and we had a lot of fun. People should check it out. We're going to have part.

I'm sure you'll put it on social too, Ricky, but we'll have it on the round the NFL broadcast, which is back. How about that? We're back. Who knows? Maybe all those podcasts helped us actually get a slot on the network, finally. Because we have had it during the pandemic, and hopefully that continues, even when there's not a like global catastrophe going on but it's nice we're there we're there for good and

i hope we're there for good uh throughout the season and everything either that or we've been just sort of used by the executives to you know fill time and i hope to get back to normal get these clowns out of here we got a new commercial mark sa so i'm excited about it oh yeah they updated well they did it they did a nice little update because rickie jacked on that commercial yeah in the previous one um they have me saying like you just can never doubt the patriots something like that while they were like going you know deep into hell um this time around it's a more bland comment that you can't really tell what now it's mark like is mark's like you always have to doubt the patriots they just need a slight edit to update it um all right

let's get into we have a big new show in honor of the bunker cast um and how we started a year ago we're just going to kind of rip through some news and then end um with a little what you people don't realize as we look ahead to free agency. The legal tampering period starts on Monday. So let's get into it and do some new starting with a big move at quarterback for the Cowboys. That's not the way it works. That's not the way it works. But we've got some guys that are circumcised and the fly, so to speak.

But the bottom line is we've got it down to the nitty gritty. You know, Jera and he had a press conference with people there, which was a bit of a return to normality, at least in Texas, an actual press conference. And he brought up the circumcising an insect again. If you remember a few years back, it was circumcised the mosquito. And that wasn't the first time. Now it's a fly. I still don't know what it means. Does anybody know what Jera means?

It's an old down south expression. and I'm steeped in Texan culture because of my marriage, but I still don't know what that is. I might ask my mother-in-law. I mean, it feels like a completely unnecessary procedure also. I mean, I think, yeah, that's the idea. I think that the idea is it's saying you don't need to get too deep into the weeds here. Let's not lose the forest for the trees to use another metaphor.

Let's not get so hyper-specific that we're circumcising the mosquito. And when we really should just be happy, We have this great mosquito that Dak Prescott that doesn't need to be circumcised. Wait a second. It totally fell apart there. How about we say that instead? Yeah. What is Jerry telling us here?

Because sometimes I do think people tell on themselves by what they kind of notice in others or the phrases that they use. And I don't know what he's saying, you know, by always bringing up circumcision. It might be something that he has to deal with as a person. That's what I mean. I'm totally with you. Cut that, please, for social. All right, let's get into it. Please take that out.

The Cowboys announced with their typical spectacle that they have re-signed DACPres got to a four-year, $160 million contract. He gets $126 million guaranteed, a no-trade clause that's the most. You always have to have one record, so everybody goes home happy. Is the $126 million guaranteed the most ever? Is that what the record DAC got? Yes, it reset. The market, yeah. And it keeps Prescott there.

He turns 28 in July, so through his age 32 season, and they get the deal done, which Mark, I think, is good for the Cowboys because Dak is, to me, a top 10 quarterback, also good for us because we don't have to hear about Dak Prescott's contract anymore. I mean, I just think about the fact that in, you know, four plus games, he threw for almost 1900 yards and how dangerous their offense was before he was wiped off the field with that terrible injury. I am happy for him because, you know, tucked inside an absurd press conference. And I understand that for, I will pause on that for a second. I will just say that I, what I liked about the press conference was that you really got a sense of how the

other people inside that building feel about Deck Prescott. That they, that this is a, this, he has grown as a leader. He is an unquestioned franchise quarterback. And I'm just glad that it's, that it's finished and done. And he said the same thing. Dak Prescott said that it meant a lot to have this behind him and that you can really, it allows you just to focus. And I imagine it would. And, you know, Stephen Jones talked about the fact that the quarterback market everywhere else is so volatile and undecided that they knew they had a sure thing. And so for all those reasons, I like it. The way that this was handled press conference-wise, and honestly, one of the on for an hour and 45 minutes or close to that was highly absurd. And I don't want to be overly

cynical because that was just my raw response to it after it reached 50 to 60 minutes, completely unnecessary outside of the fact that Dak Prescott looking sideways at Jerry Jones when he'd utter some of his absurd commentaries. But this is a Cowboys way of doing things. But we haven't had a press conference like that. In Dallas, they said, for 400 days. Am I being too cynical? I don't need that presentation in those bells and whistles. Don't watch it then. It's not for you.

Right. Right. But even the fact that it was tolerated to go on for that long. The very nature. But the people there, I think, wanted it to. Right. It's not like there was no questions or anything. I think the nature of a news conference is for the assembled media to get what they're looking for,

for the team to give their version of where they're at. And then it gets disseminated in. in portions. Now, the fact that you use your off day to watch an hour and 45 minutes, I mean, that's kind of on you, isn't it, Mark? Yeah, I was not tracking every minute of it, but it was just like literally on in our living room, which is a rare occurrence. But I came into the room.

You went full Rosenthal. I did. I came to the room seven or eight times over the course of two hours, and it was still on. I watched 10 minutes of it, and that was good. I think it's a Cowboys way of doing it, and it doesn't surprise me that it bothers you, Mark, because you do not like hubris, you do not like unnecessary self-promotion, you know, not necessarily like people that value the almighty buck over having integrity. And those are, that's the cowboys.

Like, that's why they are the cowboys. Listening to Jerry Jones, I think, and we can get into the specifics. I do want to of just like the football and the contract. But jumping off you, Mark, like listening to him, you would get the sense. that they were an extremely successful franchise over the last 30 years, maybe the most, and because in his mind, they are.

And in a lot of the way that our country values the world, they are, because they've made the most money. Like, he did refer a few times, like, if there's someone I want to lose a contract negotiation to, this is the guy to my life, who's going to take advantage? Please, no one believes that you're saying that. You know that you're taking advantage of all these players. You've made so much money.

He said, like, you got to overpay. Any good deal I've ever made, you got to overpay. You didn't overpay for the Cowboys. It was an incredible thing. They print cash. And I think to Jerry Jones, that is success. Of course he wants to win the Super Bowl. But I think he's as competitive or more as a businessman.

And the way they run that press conference is part of the reason why that's true. And that's fine. But as a fan, I don't care about all that. So if I'm a Cowboys fan, I'm almost annoyed that they see themselves as the team. When they're not, they've been losing. losing. They've been a mediocre team at best for 30 years. So I'm with you, Mark. I mean, they haven't gone to the Super Bowl in 25 years. And that's that you can't get past that. But I guess there's a part of it. It's like they are the Dallas Cowboys. They are about

spectacle. And that's why there's many people who hate the Cowboys, even when they were great. And they were backing it up with success on the field. It's the star and it's the spotlight. And it's look at us. And we have the biggest stadium and the biggest place. And again, a lot of this ties into the culture of the region where they come from. Bigger is better in Texas. So I don't know, man. I think it's good to have different types of franchises and some that love it and handle things like this.

And then there'll be other organizations that, I guess, a press release will suffice. And maybe that's minimalist enough for you, Mark. I don't know. Maybe there's a middle ground. This is like a Gen X thing. I'm not one of these like, I'm not, like, I think it's fair to note that there was an absurdity to it.

I'm not asking for it to be banned like we're in communist Russia or something. It's fine. It can go on. You're right. I don't have to watch it along with thousands of other totally worthless shows that are out there that I don't watch. I'm fine with a couple organizations being the way they are. And that is the Cowboys stamp. But I think that Greg nailed it.

Here's the problem. He spent like, there were like 30 mentions of Super Bowl trophies and this and that. And it's like, you. been a bad team. You've underperformed. You've been a team that gets to the playoffs and never gets the job done for a quarter century. There's zero accountability. If you're a fan of the Dallas Cowboys, and we all know a few, unless you have your head in the clouds, you'd have to be furious with this owner. And the way the team has mostly been run, outside of the fact that no matter what they do, they're never punished for it, they're put on television 30 times. The record

is mediocre. Because they're popular. The quarterbacks go on to become better announcers than they were a quarterback safe for Troy Aikman. I'm tired of it. To Mark's point, and we'll get to the football. That would be great at some point. I will. I understand. The point has been made.

It is interesting, though. But to Mark's point, they wouldn't have done that press conference. When Josh Allen signs his deal, if Josh Allen talks for $1.45, they'll cut away after 15 minutes. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've been annoyed by it, actually, when they do it too quickly. You know, if it was Lamar Jackson, when he signs his deal, they'll cut away. They're not going to leave.

it on TV. But it's because people watch it and people like it. They are different. And they're similar now that they have this quarterback on their contract for 40 million. I think it's overrated. It's like, you can't build a team around a quarterback with a lot of money. That, to me, is overrated. But it doesn't mean that we all weren't right when we first guessed two years ago that the Cowboys are just going to end up paying way more for dragging this out. This is not something we're second guessing. If we go back and listen to the podcast two years ago, he said them dragging their fee is going to cost them more money. And the two contracts that have changed the quarterback structure the most are Kirk Cousins and Dak Prescott. And it's because they got

to the franchise tag. And it's because they got to the second franchise tag. So they did not self-evaluate. That's been something I've been banging on this entire time we've ever had a podcast. I think it's Jerry Jones's biggest problem. He doesn't know who's worth paying or not on his own roster. And I think that it costs them a little here. I mean, nothing crazy. But if they just paid him a couple years ago, you know, they'd be paying them eight or or $9 million less, they'd have a little more or less, you know, a little more to spend. The contract seems okay to me. It doesn't seem, I mean, it's all funny money at a certain point.

But I didn't get the feeling when I read the news like, oh, man, this really did screw the Cowboys in the end. And a four-year deal that's, I think, works for both sides. You know, I think about it, though, and I know you just said you don't put much stock in it, but I think history backs it up a little bit is once you do sign that second contract out of rookie deal. It does get harder to build a team. It just dollars and cents. He was a, I believe, what was he, a third round pick, Dak? Fourth round pick. And it's fair to wonder if Dallas already had its best chance to win a Super Bowl with Dak Prescott when he was making

virtually no money. When they had that dominant offensive line and Ezekiel Elliott was at the top of his powers and you had the opportunity to use all that extra cap space. to build up a defense to make a well-rounded team. They could never do it. They had a couple good years there, but now they have to go about business in a different way and getting back to the point and on some level you were saying, Mark,

that with the Cowboys, it's all sizzle and no stake sometimes. Is it going to be different this time? If they've learned lessons, are they going to take this salary, absorb it into their cap, and be able to now rebound off last year? We'll see. I think one thing that's fair to say is they don't,

really deserve the benefit of the doubt in terms of team building. It's just the results haven't been there. I do think that the addition of Dan Quinn and defensive coordinator, I know he totally flamed out in Atlanta, but the coordinator world is just so different. I think that's going to be great for them. I mean, they have needs on defense and, but all, a lot of players that last year completely fell off a cliff were better in previous years, not under that horrible scheme they were in a year ago. And so if that can improve, I do again, look at this offense and how productive Dak Prescott was. I mean, he was on MVP pace when he got injured. Why can't they duplicate that? All those people, for the most part, the skill position players are all

coming back. He is a concern. He's an interesting player, Dak, because, you know, even on the show, we've been a little up and down because he was so good as a rookie, one of the best rookie seasons of all time by a quarterback. Not as good the next two years, but his fourth year, to me, he was so good that that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt where he was, which is as a top, you know, eight to ten quarterback, maybe even better than that. And then he started last season great, too. If you could play that well in your fourth season, I mean, you're legit, but it's interesting.

I think it was because he was a fourth round pick that the Cowboys trusted him ultimately a lot less than the Rams trusted Goff and the Eagles trusted Wendt. and here is DAC, you know, the last one standing with his team. I think the Zeke Elliott contract is going to haunt them a hell of a lot more, and it already is. I was going to say. Than the DAC one. What is, how many more guaranteed money years does ZKal?

Because that feels like the next domino here. How are they going to have cap flexibility now that they have DAC under contract to get out of that Z contract? But he just signed it last summer, wasn't it? Right. He only has his guaranteed money through. this year so actually as even though they would have dead money to cut him or trade him next year like they'd still save money so he he he needs to play well i think this year

to to remain a cowboy and keep getting that money where does ezekieliot fall on your 2022 free agency 101 that's where he's had that's a good question 27th i'm gonna i'm gonna make a prediction right now 27th next year All right, before we go full skip A-list, let's get out of this Cowboys talk and talk about other things in the NFL. The Chiefs are making a big move at offensive line. A couple big moves. They have parted ways with both of their starting tackles,

former number one overall draft pick Eric Fisher, veteran Mitchell Schwartz, in a moves that saves close to $20 million against the salary cap, but puts the chiefs, the defending AFC champions, into a position where they have to rebuild their offensive line into key spots. Greg, I know there was predictions of a quote-unquote massacre, which you poo-pooed a little bit.

But there's no way really to tell, like, whether what teams' intentions would have been if the salary cap was 200 instead of 183. I wonder if it was, if they had more bubble room, if both their tackles are gone right now. Yeah, I think that's a fair question. I think there's going to be some exceptions that a player that got cut this year maybe wouldn't have been in a normal year.

I just think that's the exception. But Eric Fisher might be that exception. I think Schwartz, for them to cut him right after he had back surgery, they know a lot about his condition. He's a four-time all-pro. I mean, that tells me they just don't think he can return to his previous level.

sounds like something you would do regardless. Now, Fisher is a little younger, but he's coming off a late January Achilles injury, and you know he's not going to be the same all season. So do you really keep them out, you keep them on the roster just for 2022? Maybe not in a year like this, where by the way, the chiefs, I think, were, you know, among the three or four worst position teams heading into this period. They, they, it wasn't just the saint. You know, the Saints got a lot of attention. The Chiefs were in a tough spot, but they didn't have a lot of logical moves, you know, they're going to push money around and I put them on like potential surprise cuts, but I thought it'd be one or the other, Schwartz or Fisher. And for them to do it both,

they only have one starter remaining from their offensive line that won the Super Bowl. And that was DuVernay Tardif, my Miguel guy who sat out last year. He's the only one left off of their Super Bowl offensive line, which is crazy. That's why I think you're still going to see free agent linemen get paid. But if you're the chiefs, you know, you have to turn around and pay people like instead of paying these two. I think it's health related for Mitchell Schwartz too because there's been whispers that he might retire. I mean, it was during that Super Bowl run where, you know, according to any metrics you look at, he had one of the greatest playoff journeys of any right tackle ever. It was flawless for them two seasons ago. So the idea that

we're now in a place where the chiefs have to rebuild from scratch and you got to nail it because bottom line, I know it's a one game sample, but what happened to them, What happened to Patrick Mahomes in that entire offense with a compromised, banged-up offensive line and neither one of those two tackles in the game, they were boring. They were not fun to watch. They were unproductive and mistake-prone.

Your offensive line goes away. You're in hot water. I don't care who you are. Against the mediocre defense and pass rush, the greatness of Mahomes is going to cover up a lot of warts. But as you could see, when the competition steps up, you're highly vulnerable. And that's why the Chiefs got blown out

in the Super Bowl. They feel more vulnerable. You know, everyone said, like, they're just going to, you know, keep soaring year after year. And I always think it's really tough. Every year is different. And they're still going to be one of the favorites. But they do feel they're going to go into this season,

feeling more vulnerable, feeling like one of the pack of four or five or seven teams instead of being the one that stands apart. People got to stop writing that article the week after the team wins the Super Bowl. You know, Team Blank just lifted the Lombardi. and there's no reason to think they won't keep winning. It's like it's hard to retain a roster to bring in fresh talent when your draft pick is in a preview and your cap is in a tough spot because you have so much great talent on your roster.

Stop assuming things. All right, when's the last time a team repeated a Super Bowl champion? Greg knows. Maybe. Patriots. Come on, come on. Well, your memory sometimes a little bit down. 0304.

I mean, they break all the rules. They break all the rules. And when, before the Pats, who was the last repeat champion? Cowboys, right? Nineers for that? The Broncos, the Broncos. Oh, the Broncos. And the Seahawks, to be fair, we're a Malcolm Butler interception away.

That would have been back to back, right? Yes, it would have been. The Broncos fans would have absolutely killed us if you didn't correct. Well, I would say one quick thing about those. Because it's all you have, Broncos fans. The 98 Broncos team is one of the most underrated Super Bowl job. dug or nots around. I think they just get forgotten because there were all these NFC dynies around them.

That team was absolutely unstoppable. Please, great. You're right? Please, Mark. Jets were up 10-0 in the third quarter of the AFC title game. Don't bring that up. It hurts too much. He's right.

They were a great. That was a great. You're going to have your close games, you know, in the playoffs here and there. But he's right. That team was incredible. I did not do that as an anti-Jets rant, Dan, just to let you know. If we get past the Broncos, we have the Falcons on two-week break with Bill Belichick as the DC and Bill Parcell's a head coach.

We walk into the Lombardy. I hear you would have won that game. All right, let's move on. The Saints, they make some moves. They're always trying to get under the cap. And this year, they're making some painful moves. Emmanuel Sanders. He gets cut as does.

So the wide receiver and Kwan Alexander, the linebacker, both heading out the door, saves $4 million by cutting Sanders, $13 million saved against the cap, getting rid of Juan Alexander, who's making his way back from an Achilles injury in December. Alexander just 26, Manny, in his early 30s, and was, I thought, effective with them, considering their QB issues with injuries this year.

I'm sure he'll get work. They both will the Saints have some work to do. They do, and neither was a surprise to me. I don't think the Saints have done anything surprising this off season except for tag Marcus Williams, that their safety, which we'll get to, but the other tags. But that was surprising to me because that's going to cost him $10 million,

shows how much they value him. It's been fun to kind of follow, this is my idea of fun, you know, over the cap, their cap space page. It's like the Saints were at $270 million over the cap. Each day it just comes down a little more, and now it's down under 30. And they haven't made a move yet, that is surprising.

One thing I have heard from some of the, you know, that I wonder about, too, is just, is a Michael Tom, a Michael Thomas trade to me would be the one big surprise move they could make because I'm not sure what else they're going to do to get under the cap. Maybe it's just moving money around. But that would be a move that I wouldn't totally shock me. It makes a little sense. Maybe a trade too. Right.

That's what I mean. A Michael Thomas trade where you get that contract off the bucks, he'd certainly have suitors if they wanted to do that. I think he would have suitors. but there is some buzz on the streets that he's a bit of a pain in the ass on a high level. Is that somebody you want to bring in, I don't know, he's a great talent, obviously. There's proof of that a year ago, too. I mean, there were, you know.

They cut you Norris Jenkins too. Jack Rabbit could be the other. He was good. He'll get a contract. He was good last year. You're 24 million over about that at this point or over the cap. And so to your point, Greg, it's like everyone's going to get under. But, I mean, they've had to cut.

The Saints, to me, move out of, like, Super Bowl window territory entirely in my book. I want to see what they end up with. They always find a way. And so far, they haven't – I wouldn't be surprised if Janoris Jenkins is back. Like, that contract was signed with the Giants. He was not making $13 million in any season. It reminds me a little bit of Carlos Dunlop where, like, you could see him back on the same team, but just for $7 or $8 million or something like that. What do you have, Greg, for the Saints, if James Winston is the starter.

You got 19 and 0, 18 and 1, 17 and 2, like, where do you come down? Well, that's what I'm hoping for. Or I don't really want Winston with the Patriots because I think that would go poorly, but I kind of just want to see it out of curiosity. I'm going to go 11 and 5 with James, but a nice playoff run, the type of, you know, playoff performance they haven't gotten enough out of their quarterbacks lately. So the upshot is Drew Breeze exits and everything starts to become productive again. No, I mean, 11 and 5 is technically a worse record than they've had.

But yeah, in January, that's when we haven't seen it, but that's when you see the best. That's James Winston Money Time. Yeah, I work under that assumption as well. In other news, the Buffalo Bills part ways with John Brown there, deep threat wide receiver who, you know, always a West favorite, John Brown. In fact, I was just thinking how Norris Jenkins, Wes always just referred to him as Jack Rabbit, just, you know, conversationally. always referred to John Brown to smoke. And it made me think that despite the ankle injuries, and injuries in general for Brown,

he could be somebody's bargain at the right price and free agency. Because if Wes believes it, and I know Wes would say that, then I believe it. I would point to the fact that, like, I know last year he played in, what, nine games, but in the previous two seasons, he missed a combined two. So it's not been all injuries all along, but he had the sickle cell situation and he saves him $7.9 million

and I think if you look at the bills a little bit like they didn't franchise tag Matt Milano I think it's because they're going to turn around and have to spend some money and I look at their offensive line is one area where they've got guys leaving the building and they can't just, you've got Daryl Williams gone,

John Feliciano like you're going to have to replace these bodies there's a couple of playoff teams out here who are going to be chasing offensive linemen. Yeah, I would want my team And if your team signs John Brown, I'd be excited. I mean, Wes, you're right about West. He saw that in him right off the bat when he was a fourth receiver in Arizona, and he could not have been more on point.

I think he was a difference maker last year when he played. He was hurt. I mean, look, he had a nice playoff game. I forget which one it was. I think it was their divisional round win over the Browns. Like, he's pure speed. He's got subtle, you know, skills. He's just banged up.

He's a small guy, but I would love to get him if I was another team. I'm trying to think of a contender that was missing of that type of presence. How about the Ravens? How about, yeah, going back to the Ravens where he had a nice season for them before, yeah. All right. In other news, franchise tag. Greg, you were very concerned about the franchise tag and the timing of it and whether it would be pushed back or not. It wasn't.

It went down as scheduled and a bunch of players got tagged and a bunch of players didn't that you thought could. So Chris Godwin of the Bucks, he gets the tag. Marcus Williams, as Greg mentioned, the Saints, Marcus May, the safety for the jets, among 10 players tagged, not tagged. And this is a little bit more interesting, obviously, because these players are hitting free agency

and there's a pretty decent chance they will be playing elsewhere in 2021. Kenny Gallaudet with the Lions, Aaron Jones, Hunter Henry, Matthew Judon, Shaq Lawson, not tagged. Gallaudet jumps out to me. I wanted to start there because you really get the feeling that Jared Goffs in a lot of trouble here in Detroit, like a lot. And I wonder if I wonder if he came to realize that now when he learned that Gallaudet wasn't come back.

Because Kenny Gallaudet is a big time receiver and he was injured last year. But he was a guy, I think I even wrote in a faulty column. over the summer last year that he was primed to join the superstar club and it just didn't work out for him. But he's going to be a really talented quality player for whatever team he ends up with.

And it makes me think that Gough is just like a patsy being set up to fail for a team that can absorb his contract as they plan for a tomorrow without him. They got these two first round picks from the Rams. They say, you know what? We're not trying to win. So this hideous salary that Gough has

is not a problem for the time being. And then we're going to go two and 14. We are the two, we are the Jags of last year, or the Jets of last year. We're going to get the number one pick. We're going to be loaded up. And we're going to be in the catbird seat like Joe Douglas is this year. And, and, and we're going to roll. And Jared Goff's just going to be left holding the bag here as bag of money, but that's

all he's going to have. So Gallaudet, not being around, most likely, is very bad news for Jared Goff. There is whispers that the, the dolphins and the, Giants are hot on Kenny Galladay. I think you diagnosed the lion's situation perfectly. It's like there was no, the lions weren't seeking Jared Goff as a destination future quarterback. I think that there is an agreement between Dan Campbell and ownership that this is a deep

rebuild. We're not going to try to just float along as seven and nine for the next 300 years, but cut it down to the studs and they've acquired all these draft picks. I think that was what the move was. Right. And they'll get one more, assuming. I mean, Gala Day stays healthy as a compensatory third-round pick, you know, when he signs elsewhere. Still surprised me was the biggest surprise to me just because I was told that, you know, that people that had, you know, people were guessing, you know, our Ian Rapport kind of reported it's going to happen.

So I wonder if they didn't see a trade market for him as a tag and trade and they just decided why would we pay $17 million to a guy when we're, as you mentioned. I think, Dan, you hit it on the head with Goff and the Lions. When we're not really looking to win this year, I guess it doesn't make sense. But it stinks. You know, they've only drafted so many good players, and I love Goladay. The Giants make so much sense to me. I mean, the Dolphins would do. Really, any team.

A lot of teams. Right. So many teams could yield a big-time receiver with a high ceiling. I think he's 26 years old. And by the way, do you think when Dan Campbell was talking about biting kneecaps, he was talking about Jared Goff is one of those people? you'd have to factor that in at this point that may be one of the targets he did talk about like completely rebuilding and he was pretty honest about it and yeah when you let the i have golladay seventh on my list uh that was a shock to me and the other one um that really surprised me was cam rod was Aaron Jones by the way I was a little surprised he's number three on my list that they didn't just want to pay him eight million dollars we'll see maybe he'll return there there's some buzz about that but then Cam Robinson getting tagged by the Jagger is really surprise me. So I think they're the opposite of the lions, which is I think they're going to spend

stupid money. They have the most cap space. They just seem like they're desperate to win now. Urban Meyer and Trent Balky's back and he's just going to do whatever he wants and he's going to set the top of the market and he's going to do things like franchise tag, a left tackle they drafted that really hasn't been that great, but just because like, why not spend the money? There are people that know the Packers far better than I do, so I'm not going to go in too hard on this, but it doesn't make sense to me. If you have a chance to to put the tag on Aaron Jones, a running back, put him essentially on a one-year deal for money that is in the ballpark of the best running backs in the league in terms of

payment, but not at the top of the market. Like, you do it because Aaron Rogers is 38 years old. And you've gotten close to the mountaintop the last two years. Put the best team on the field possible. Now, they may be saying we can take this money that we're not going to pay Aaron Jones if he doesn't come back. I'm working on the deal. Yeah, they might get him back.

Maybe they bring them back and everything's. fine. But if this ends with him walking out the door and they think we're just going to reallocate those assets, I don't know, man. I mean, that guy has been a stud, and there's a reason their offense has been so incredibly efficient in the last season, and it's a lot of it is obviously Rogers, but Jones gave him that balance. Playing with fire, I think. I think they must, it tells you good things about what they think about A.J. Dillon, because he's going to shift in and become a lead guy. But Jones is irreplaceable. Well, I'm just saying that this stuff happens, though, where it's like, especially at the running back position, they don't want to pay $8 million to a running back and they're telling us that.

But, I mean, there are these suggestions that maybe Jones goes out and tests the market doesn't get the deal, he thinks, and comes back to Green Bay. And then you get him for more than one season. He gone. If he hits the open market, he's going. I mean, and if you really do value Aaron Jones, put the tag on him and then try. to work out a deal. And then if you can't work out a deal, he's still on your team. Or maybe you trade them if you really want to go down.

I don't know, man. Again, there are people out there that know the Packers better, but it struck me as strange. The Bucks re-sign Levante David to a two-year contract, $25 million, 20 million guaranteed, 31 years old. PFF, their number one coverage linebacker last year. So this guy is one of the great defensive players in Bucking. history and now he's got a Super Bowl ring on top of it and now he's got more security so good for Levante David. Greg, is this one surprised you a little bit? Well, the money surprised me a little bit. Another West's favorite, he was on that, you know, I remember early 2013-14 on our podcast

that this is one of the great linebackers in the league. I think if if he had been on the Patriots or some other team, you'd be talking about him as a potential Hall of Famer. Maybe he'll get there. I am looking for, though, a text that I just know will make you happy, Dan, from our, you know, friend Mike Berkowitz, who you know is a big Patriots fan. And, you know, I want to get this right, but the idea is basically, he like, he's basically transferred allegiances. He still loves the Patriots, but he started, he's one of those guys that just started rooting for the bucks. And he was like, it's nice to finally root for a franchise that, like, values their veterans and, like, holds on to the guys that have been, you know, great in their uniform. It's nice to, you know, finally root for a franchise with loyalty.

I'm like, you're crazy. What a smooth. I mean, he really hit the ground running as a fan to go from the tail end of the Patriots experience right into this. Right. I mean, he still likes the Patriots, but that's, it cracked me out. Sounds like you like Tom Brady more than he liked the Patriots. But, no, I'm with him 100%.

All right. Let's see. Speaking of the Patriots are taking phone calls we're hearing on Akiel Harry. their underwhelming wide receiver. I believe he was a second round pick a couple of years ago. And what kind of market does that guy have, Greg? Let's be honest here. Not much.

I don't know. Why is this even like an urgent thing happening right now? Who is how many teams? What? Like in our news rundown? I thought, how many teams are calling up the Patriots? I saw this report too yesterday and it's like, okay.

I thought you would have fun with it. See, sometimes they try to give you some. read me they're Dan because it's sort of a it's a sign of just like it's a it's just funny when these reports come out because to me it's just like hey if i'm nikiel harry and i read that report it's like hey bill bellichick hates you that's what i would read into it it it's like this first round pick that didn't work out clearly and i just you know i thought yeah but they're taking calls so there's like there's like a line of teams out there that are like super into nekeel harry after what he's done over the past two seasons.

It had a great game against the Seahawks last year. That's true. Flatlines like in like 13 other games and there's multiple teams, you know, hitting the Patriots complex up on the cell phone trying to get him. Are you doing work for the Patriots? We have a very, our podcast is a big audience. Are you actually carrying the water

trying to move Nikiel Harry in the trade right now? No, I'm laughing at it. I don't. He has struggled. He, they played Demir Bird, the Patriots, 90% of their snaps. last year. I saw this while doing the free. That was the second highest of any free agent wide receiver. That's how bad their offense was. Jacoby Myers was by far their number one

receiver. They were desperate to have Harry do anything the last couple years. And they drafted him over AJ Brown. That one kills me because they were very, they were looking for a certain type of player and they're very similar types of player. And man, did they make the wrong choice between those two? So to be clear, you are not using our platform to improve the Patriots. What do they got to get for him? A fifth round pick? Maybe.

I don't know. All right. In cuts news, cuts, cuts, cuts, cuts, cuts. Guard Kevin Zitler of the Giants, Vikings tackle, Riley Reef, Titans' cornerback, Malcolm Butler, all hit the street. Butler was not the biggest problem in that Tennessee secondary, but he was highly paid. I'm sure he'll get work. I'm not sure what the situation is with Riley Reef. Zeitler actually graded well this year in PFF,

but maybe, again, this comes back to the 183 salary cap situation, and the Giants needed that versatility. He'll find a job immediately, Zaitler. He will. Some of these guys, maybe it is different this year to some degree, because it certainly feels, maybe it also because I don't have West to help. Yeah, but it's like, it feels like I'm adding a lot of guys to this top hundred list over and over. These guys getting cut are in the 40 to 70 or 80 range.

They're like Landon Square in the middle. Riley Reef, he'll get a job. He'll start. Kyle Van Nuoy, like, he'll get a job maybe back with, you know, Malcolm Butler. But I thought it was kind of good last year. Like, he'll get a job. These guys are starting players. I do appreciate the theory that, like, you're going to get a lot of free agents signing one-year deals

because then the cap hops back up big time next year and if you bet on yourself you get a better deal next year. I still don't believe any team is cutting a guy that they really like. That's kind of my over, that's my big point, is that if they believed in them, they would keep them. They would just find a way. You always find a way because you could change their salary to push it into next year.

But they ultimately don't think Zytler or Butler are like difference makers. They just think they're okay and so then they'll cut them. Right, but when you're the Titans and you couldn't cover anybody and now you choose to save pennies or millions, let's be fair, by cutting them off your team. It's like, all right, you better have a plan and you better draft well here. Things are not going to get any better. Finally, Mark, ask me if Drew Breeze has retired. Dan, has Drew Breeze retired according to your reports?

No. That's what's happening in the news. March 11th. Good segment. It's bringing it back. All right. Before we go and before we toss to Ricky and Sarah Thomas, imagine like we're tossing to this, and it's just Erica trashing the three of us to Sarah Thomas.

And Thomas is just like a little bit confused because she doesn't really know who we are. But Erica is just using Thomas as a platform to share a lot of her anger about us and NFL media in general. And we willfully tack it on to the show. I would love to listen to that, to be honest. Erica, is that what's going to happen? we're flying blind on this yeah I mean you trust me right

yeah that's sort of Mark's fantasy you know just hearing people talk you know crazy trash on him like just like I am a bad boy you know well I don't I think you're framing that in a certain way that I finally confirmation of my bad boy status I think it would be cool if Erica

was like dropping verbal bombs on us and then I quit after out of nowhere at the end of our show It would be funny because she would be just like, what am I doing you? What? I prefer the verbal bombs to be on other people, but I, you know, either way, verbal bombs are usually fun. So, all right, make sure you tune in at the end of this episode. Before we go, let's play one of our favorite little games.

What you people don't realize, Mark, get us going. I think something that is becoming clear, but, A lot of people, not on like you two little beta boys, who are supposed to insult each other. And that's what I'm calling you. That's what you are. And we just not realizing. I was kind of into that.

I mean, I thought it was insulting sort of just the general public, you know, listening, you know, anything, not necessarily each other. Oh, well, then remove that. I don't think that you're that you're that. We're not, we have to wake up to the fact that we live. Thank you for my fantasy baseball team, by the way. There you go. We have to wake up.

We have to wake up to the fact that we live in a post-stealers universe. Oh, I like that. Here we are. Well, here's the thing. I don't like it all. I think they have been for years and years, judicious in their decisions, excellent in many of their draft picks on offense specifically. But I'm looking at a team right now that last year had the second worst run-blocking grade.

They could not run the ball. They were an imbalanced mess. And now you say goodbye to Marquis Pouncey. You do not get, you're not going to have Alejandro Villanueva back. That is tough to replace these guys. The offensive line is a mess. Big Ben, you now have a bigger question at quarterback than you do an answer. And I think behind offensive lines that are crumbling, that's when teams start to go south.

You're in a division where two other teams beside yourself made the playoffs last year. Both of them look better than you at the end of the year in the Ravens and Browns. And the Bengals, who knocked off the Titans and beat the Steelers. with Ryan Finley, smiling his way to like 50 yards on the ground in a bizarre primetime game knocking off Pittsburgh. The Steelers are in hot water. They can't just assume they're going to get four wins a year out of the state of Ohio and all this other business.

I sense that we now float into a world where the Steelers are no longer the center of the AFC east or west of New England. What did you call it a post-Steeler's universe? Yeah, Post-Steers America. Wow. You know, that, again, and I'm all for this ultimately because I understand, as a Browns fan, that the Steelers are hyper annoying because they've been an efficient franchise that beat up on you for the longest time. But for like the rest of us that aren't as like plugged into that division, it's kind of been post Steelers for a while.

They haven't even been to the AFC championship game in a decade, let alone winning Super Bowls. But they were also, they were 11 and O last year and they have been a team that's constantly, you just, you would. you would never be laughed at to make them your Super Bowl team almost every year for the past 20-something years. They haven't won a playoff game in four years. That's all I'm saying. I guess what I'm talking about is them floating away from even that area to a darker place.

That'd be nice. Who would you rather see float away to a dark place, the Steelers or the Ravens? Fantasy lands. Let's start with Pittsburgh. All right. We'll start with Pittsburgh. And it's certainly possible.

The big question mark at quarterback. I like that. Greg, do people not realize? I feel like I've already been talking about this. So maybe you did realize you ignoramus is, you know, if you've been paying attention to the show. But if not, maybe people wouldn't realize the salary cap. It's still overrated. I'm not, you know, there's been like some victory laps I've been noticing on Twitter by like, you know.

It's like, hey, tough week for the salary cap is a myth guys. It's like, show me. me the players. It's basically a tough week for Greg Rosenthal. No, it's on my radar. No, I mean, that they're saying that I stand by it 100%. Show me the players that were like incredibly valuable that the play that the teams wanted to keep. And I'll show you guys where you restructure their contract and you move it into the future and you do these ghost years that the saints love doing and everyone, every team is doing now where you sign these phony contracts and you push it into the future when that money is being made.

One of the reasons a lot of these guys, you know, are getting cut is because, uh, and ignoramus may not realize this either. I think your dollar is going to go further in this market. And it is a one year, a one year thing. And I think the teams either intentionally or not, like the Jets, the Patriots, the Jaguars, the Colts, there's, you know, there's five or six, that have more money ultimately in cap space than they really need. They're in a great spot because I think your money.

money is going to go further in this market. So even a team like the Titans who cut Malcolm Butler or some other teams that, you know, that are closer to the cap, they still want, or the bills were another example for me. They still want to get as much room as they can because I think they see a year where there are a lot of veterans out there that they could get for four or five million at a lower cost than they would in a normal year, like Mark said in those one-year contracts. So you still want to get that money this year, and it is a different year that it helps. But teams aren't cutting players they want.

That's my point. Their thing on the cap that annoys me is when you go to over the cap and you look at the list, there's always two or three total trash bag operations that have way more cap space than everyone else. They don't spend money. They don't know how to spend it. They're always in the green or the black, I guess you would say, in a financial term. And they're not good. It's like I'd rather be one of these.

teams that dances around the cap year after year, and you're in the AFC or NFC title game at the same time. Right. There's been too much cap space the last few years. And so that changes this year. That'll be different. But next year, it'll shoot, you know, it'll shoot right back up. All right. Mine will be kind of circling back to the beginning of the show. Let's start with hearing from Dak Prescott at his press conference this week. It's my plan is get a parade in Dallas. I mean, obviously, as a competitor, you watch and you watch people celebrate and you watch people do what you want to do. There's not too many more things that lights a fire under you than somebody having what you want.

As a competitor, you watch and you watch people celebrate and you watch people do what you want to do, fire to it. And you throw on there that I was holding my leg and didn't even have a chance to be out there while guys were doing what was taken away from me. I'm just excited to get out there and show you what this team is going to do. And the next big press conference we have is hopefully in another year after that big parade. So there you go. So Dak is talking about Super Bowl parades and what you simpletons out there don't realize is that you're getting sucked in again. It's going to happen.

And it's not going to happen to me, but it's going to happen to you because Dak does this contract and you hear all the flowery talk coming out of Jera World. And he's healthy, Dak, and that's going to be, you know, built on. and then you're going to hear they're going to sign a couple of buzzy free agents dallas and then they're going to go and get the guy that everybody said they wanted in the draft and then they're going to get to training camp and ezekiel elliott is going to be in the quote best shape of his life close quote and all of a sudden you're going to think the cowboys are going to the playoffs that's what you're going to do i'm not going to do it in fact in fact ricky hit my missive music.

I got to hold myself accountable. Because this is, I've been, I've gotten this so many years wrong. I, Dan Hansis, the old Zooser, aka Big Daddy Rich, aka the new old blue eyes, will not, under any circumstances, pick the Dallas Cowboys to win the NFC East in 2021. This is a binding agreement. that ensures the involved parties, the aforementioned new old blue eyes, has entered into an agreement and is expected to fulfill the obligations under set agreement,

even if the Eagles, Giants, and Washington football team all have a pretty decent chance to suck butt. Close miss him. Wait a minute. What was the nickname you gave yourself after Daddy Rich? Where's Daddy Rich from? Daddy Rich was when I was exploring a nickname years ago, that was what Wes had thrown out there because that was Chuck Daley's nickname with the old Pistons team. The new old blue eyes.

That's just something that's been out there. It's percolating and I guess it snuck its way into this. I mean, if you give yourself like multiple, you know, complementary nicknames, is that like past third person? That's like sixth person. You're so far past it. I mean, that's mostly contract language. I've just in the process of buying a house and when you're signing the final paperwork,

they actually track down every name that's ever been involved in a credit report. And I found some strange, like when I would sign up for like Rolling Stone magazine or something and I used a dummy name. All of a sudden that was on this contract for my house. And I was like, wow, okay. That was weird.

So Daddy Rich, though, you've not used in any financial deal. You were like Ron Mexico or something? At some point, And I don't know when this happened. I signed up as Dan Hewson for something, which is the last name of Bono, his given last name, Paul Houston. I don't know when I did it. I don't know what it was for,

but it showed up on this contract paperwork for this massive biggest transaction of my life. Dan's the guy. He already has fake names for when he's so famous. He has to go to hotels under like an assumed identity. Hey, if you're going to put that contract down there, and you know, you were like, okay, I'm not going to pick them to win the division.

big, big deal, NFL.com picking. You could still even put them in the playoffs if you wanted. How about you just, you know, put a sandwich up right now, then they're not even going to make the playoffs. I'll take you on that if you do. Sure, I will too. Well, I guess, I mean, that's doubling. The thing that does concern me.

Well, that would be called super, like true conviction. Yeah, we would know that you really meant this whole. Well, the contract said win the NFC East, number one. But I, you know, the thing about the Eagles Giants in Washington potentially sucking butt, That is very much on my radar with this, but I'm just working under the assumption that the Cowboys are going to trip over themselves again. But I don't feel confident.

This is basically protecting myself from getting sucked into what's about to happen over the next three months, which is Cowboys hype, ceaseless, couch within a division that's not very good. So I'm not going to take that wager, but I'm also not going to pick the Cowboys to win the NACC. I would just say that if you're the listener right now, We went out a little soft here.

I mean, if anything, you take the sandwich and you, and you show, yes, this is exactly how I feel, but we're hedging bets. Yeah. Well, that's, how do we measure hype? The new, the new old blue eyes. He just, he measures everything. It just, it's, I don't want to go all in. I just wanted to keep this set. It has a very, like, mission accomplished vibe to it.

Yeah, absolutely. Way to go, Brownie. All right. That's it. We'll be back Monday. Again, the NFL Network show is back. Watch the NFL Network show. Give us a chance.

Set your DVRs if that's a thing that you do. Find it somehow and watch it. It's going to be fun. We're going to have some guests and we're going to talk about free agency and all sorts of things and have fun doing it. So check that out. And that's it. Have a great weekend, everybody.

And remember now it is time to throw it to Ricky Hollywood, who may be slaughtering us in the upcoming segment, a sit-down or a virtual sit-down with Sarah Thomas, the first female official in the NFL Girl Power! Let it rip, Ricky! Okay, joining me now is trailblazing NFL referee Sarah Thomas. Sarah is the league's first full-time female official. she's been officiating NFL games for six seasons now, right, Sarah? Right. I just finished my sixth season. It's crazy. I know. And the most recent of which culminated with her working as the down judge in Super Bowl 55.

Sarah, first of all, thank you for joining us. Second, I have to ask, does your head hurt from shattering the glass ceiling? Um, you know, I like to say I shattered the, the grass ceiling. So it's a little softer. Yes. We're on a turf, I guess. But no, I just, um, I don't even think of it that way, right? But I know that it is a milestone for so many young girls that are aspiring to do something that they don't have to say can girls do that anymore because CNN is believing it and they can go do it. So, Sarah, you're a basketball player in college and a good one. Do you think being an athlete or former athlete should be a requirement for a career in, you know,

being a referee? I don't know necessarily a requirement to be an official, but I definitely can say that It helped me and my mindset. Just being a former athlete and the coaches and the teammates is kind of like the same thing in the world of officiating. We have our supervisors or our coaches and we have our teammates, which we call crew. And so it's just being able to go through that constructive criticism and applying it or your successes, that's great. But knowing that you get to share it with other crewmates or teammates, but it's just those trying times as a former athlete that you just have to dig deep. And you don't think you can run another suicide and you just have to find that strength to keep going is a lot like the mentality I have out there on the field.

So I don't know necessarily a requirement, but I can tell you, it definitely has helped me. I mean, you've got to be super athletic, though. I mean, what is the preparation for a game? Yeah, it's, you know, during the off season, but there really is no offseason with NFL officials or really even college officials. but it's, you know, that lifestyle of maintaining some type of strength and conditioning, if you will, and the older I get, I just want it to where I don't, I stay in shape enough to where I don't injure myself, right? Right.

And, yeah, you've got to be mobile and we go through agility drills at the beginning of the season, but at some point you get up in age and all that athletic ability. I mean, I know that the mindset's there, but I'm going to be throwing out the first pitch at my son's game this Saturday in Meribian. I'm like, going, yeah, but it's been a long time since I've actually thrown a baseball from the mound to home play. But, yeah, when you get in your 50s and 60s, I think the athletic ability just goes away. I think it's more of like maintaining to where you don't get hurt.

So for the picking for the Super Bowl, the process, was it like, oh, I got to get my 40 time down if I want to make this game or how does that, how would, did that process happen? No, I mean, yes, you've got to be able to move. Okay. you know we've got to be able to move, be in position, and be focused out there on the field. But those 40-yard sprints really don't mean anything because, you know, we can't keep up with the players out there on the field. We just, and I'm out there on the sideline.

I'm hoping that the defensive team will come up and slow down the running back to where I can catch up. Give me a little relief there. But we are graded. Every game in the NFL is graded. Really? Yes. And so you start out, let's say, with 100. and you can only go down from there.

So it's like you want to make sure you're correct. And if you throw something that's incorrect, that hurts your chances of playoffs. And the ranking from number one to number two is a very, very small percentage. So every game is graded for every official. Wow. Okay. I had no idea that that even happened. That's cool.

Do you have a Twitter? Do you see what people are talking about when the officials are happening during the game? Yeah, so I do have a Twitter, but it's kind of secretive, but I've started to like tweet stuff about my kids because they're, my oldest is the middle infielder, just having the time of his life at Meridian. Nice. And I have a junior that is 6'5 catching as a switch hitter. So I'm starting to kind of want to tweet stuff about them. But as far as the stuff that's on Twitter or any of the social media outlets, it doesn't bother me. It's kind of comical, if you will.

That people sit behind a computer screen or on a phone and they feel as if they're God and they're experts about everything. But I don't see them out there applying themselves, you know. So it's just, it's funny. Are there any specific calls you've made at any point in your career that really stick with you for better or for worse? I would say there are calls that you make that you know it impacted the game and you want those to be in a very positive way. And then the one, ones that you sit back and it's that one play that just eats at you or keeps you up at night, I would be lying if I said that they're not those, but you just have to say, you know, put it to bed. There was a play, my rookie year that I called a fourth time out and there's only three per

half and it's just like I wanted to crawl underneath the turf. But you learn from, you learn from those and you just have to have short term memory because if you're still thinking about it, the next Sunday you work, it's kind of like playing sports. If you make an era, you better clear your head because the ball's coming right back at you. Yeah, I was umpiring for one of my brothers' Little League games like 15 years ago. And I was on first base. And it was a really tight game. It's Little League in New England. Like, didn't mean anything. And I remember saying, out, but I did the safe sign. And the parents on the side, you would have thought that I made the biggest mistake of my entire, you know,

career. And that was the last time I did it. So I think there's something. in you that is definitely better than me. Let's just put it that way. I don't know. Somebody asked me one time they go, how do you get prepared for like the players and the coaches? And I go, Little League football, flag football and little league, like the Pee Wee League, the fans and the coaches is nuts. Yeah. So I can only imagine how brutal it was when you did that. Oh, yeah. No, I still still don't sleep at night because of it 15 years later. Do you have to feel like you ever have to sort of talk more smack or sort of not, you know, hide your femininity, but also sort of like show these boys, you know, these men, these huge football players and coaches like you mean business. Never. Never. Absolutely

never. I just, I've learned this through probably athletics that I've got to prove to myself that I belong because it starts with me. But me, more smack. I just, I'm, I like to have a good time out there. And I take it back to when I was playing, I hated the officials and truth be told they dated me. So I just don't want to be recognized, if you will. I want to do my job and have a good time while I'm doing it. That's awesome. What plans do you think we could put in place in order to make officiating and coaching careers more commonplace for women and young girls? I believe that the NFL is doing that. I think you're seeing a lot more, of course, females in various roles within the NFL. And it's funny when the NFL does something, the other conferences

and colleges, and it just kind of trinkles down. And, and, And it's just letting them get in at a grassroots level. Start coaching your pee-wee, your son's team or your brother's team, just and working your way up. And I truly believe when they're seeing more women out there, more women will get involved. Absolutely. Do you have a favorite call or signal or hand signal? Because these are so fun to watch.

I just want to make sure I get it right. I definitely don't want to call pass interference and give the hand signal for holding, kind of like the out. in the safe. Yeah, oh, I know. It's the unusual ones that we don't call too often, that you go, oh, gosh, what is it? You know, when I'm giving my preliminary, something like that, but no, it's whatever. So on that note, there's some gestures you can't do out there, you know, that you would

like to do. Absolutely. Well, this is well above my pay grade, and I mean everything is, but I couldn't help but think there are some official hand signals that could use a more modern upgrade. And I have a few ideas in mind to kind of liven things up. mind if I run them by you? Yeah, run them by me. Okay.

So this first one I don't believe has its own specific signal yet. It's the fumble, Sarah. And I think, I'm thinking the best way to illustrate a fumble is by making a total yikes face and like shifting your eyes back and forth and then just kind of shrugging anxiously like this. Just like a big whoops moment, thoughts, suggestions. Like this is a team effort, Sarah. I'm totally open to your critique. So the funny thing is we don't do a signal during a fumble, but we do throw a bing back.

Okay. And that's kind of like, oops, I guess, if you throw it, you know. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So this is fumble. Okay, good. So next time I'll be looking to see if, you know, you're doing this out on the field. The next one is delay of game. So if you, of course, know the current signal like this. Well, no offense, but that doesn't make any sense at all. So here's what I propose. You tap your wrists repeatedly, like you're a cartoon waiting in line and just go ahead and throw in an eye roll or smirk for a good measure, like. Yeah. Like this? The back judge does the delay of game. So I'll pitch it to the back judges and say, hey, I think we should consider this. Okay. That's all I'm asking for, just to get it, just to get an introduction. That's awesome. So now this one coincidentally also doesn't add up for me, Sarah. It's the personal foul.

And I mean, like, what is that? I think we totally scrap it and instead act out that Denzel Washington, like, thank God, Giff. You know the one where he puts his hand on his heart and takes a side of relief? Yeah. That feels personal. Like any feedback there? I mean, it's more expressive. When we call it in the signal, I thought you were going to say it's more like punch in or something.

Yeah. Yeah, they did the business. I think there was an official that said that one time. Okay. So do you think, in the Washington, the plug for him. That's good. I think that's good.

Yeah. So if you wouldn't mind taking these up the ranks, I'm happy to pitch these at a, you know, in a meeting or whatever if you think that they're worthwhile. Well, like you, there are a lot of other people that are. or way above my pay grade, so I'll put it to them that have more pool, I guess, if you will. But yeah, I can talk to somebody. Okay, great. That's awesome.

Thank you so much. All right, Sarah, before I let you go, I want to play a game we play with all our celebrity official guests. It's called Good Call, Bad Call. And I'm going to read through some statements, some football-related, some not-so-much, rapid-fire style. And you tell me if each is a good call or a bad call. All right.

Signing Beyonce to a Lifetime Super Bowl. halftime show contract. That's a great call. She is, she's bad to the bone because she could have people in front of her. So others, you know, I mean, Beyonce? Yeah. I say, yeah. Putting olives in a nacho dish meant for a group.

Good call, bad call. Not bad call. Bad call. Wearing vertical stripes. Very slimming. Yeah, good call. Good call. Listening to murder mystery podcasts before you go to sleep.

Yeah, bad call. Screaming at the refs. at a youth sporting event? Hmm. Bad call. Okay. Doing the gritty TD dance after making a solid point

in a business meeting. Oh, yeah, definitely a good call. Absolutely. Proposing to a significant other at a football stadium. Mm-mm. Bad call. Right?

Yeah. Starting an email with the words, it's nice to e-meat you. Bad call. Doing a TikTok dance on your opponent's logo. Hmm. I'll be politically correct here. Bad call. Yes. Parting your hair on the side, aka the side part. Yeah, yeah, good call. Me too. Rhythmically challenged coaches doing locker room dances with the team. Oh, good call. Go ahead. Eating an entire sheetcake minutes ahead of kickoff. Bad call.

Celebrating a victory by smashing your body into tables. Bad call. Stupid. Rebooting Sex in the City without Samantha. Oh, terrible call. Terrible call. Playing catch with the Lombardi Trophy on a boat. I played the fifth. Going on vacation by yourself.

Good call. Asking a woman who works for the NFL, but do you actually like football? Bad call. All right. Last question before I let you go. Practice all those new hand signals. that I already taught you, do you have a secret handshake with the other women in the NFL and can I be included? I don't currently, but now you've got my wheels spinning. So maybe we'll come up

with one and you'll be the first one that I'll do it with. How about that? Yeah, that's perfect. And I'll be looking, you know, next season for you. And once in a while, if you do this, I'm going to be like, that's a Ricky Hollywood shout out. That's exactly right. Sarah, thank you so much. And congrats on all your success. It's been so amazing to watch. Oh, thanks for having me. Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct

winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant.

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