NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Dalton Scale 2022: Finding a New Prime Meridian

Episode Date: June 13, 2022

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler, Gregg Rosenthal and Patrick Claybon bring you the definitive quarterback power rankings for 2022 and break down this year's Dalton Scale. The heroes talk through their consensus list while searching for a new Prime Meridian to replace Andy Dalton, who was left off the list this year as he settles into his backup role.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast has not considered trading for Baker or shipping. From the Chris Wessling podcast studio, it's Around the NFL. I'm Dan Hansis. I'm in a studio filled with some heroes. Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sessler, sitting to my right.

Don't you dare call him, Pat? Patrick Claibon. What's up, everybody? What's up? You can call me whatever you want. All right. I'm glad to be here. I'll take it.

I got paper in my hand. This is crazy. Dan likes using unpopular ways to say people's names. He likes calling him Pat Claibon. He likes calling me Gregi. which only... Called West Chris. Dan and Debbie Rosen told my mom.

Unpopular is almost like a... There's like a negative connotation to that. It's more just like more off the grid. Like a lesser alias. Well, even lesser is kind of a negative way to look at it. It's just more like off the beaten path of how the person is addressed. It was at the point though, because I, again,

these text conversations that bubble up during the weekend, which we apologize for. No, no, no. They're perfectly pleasant. It's just that I don't always track them as carefully as I would if it were, you know, right before a burning work meeting or something. And it's like, oh, let's have Pat on the show. And I spent a big chunk of yesterday thinking that we were having roto Pat,

who's been on our show before, to join us for the QB debate. Which he would have been great on the program as well. He would have done a fantastic, but I think we've got our guy right here in Claibon. Shout out to Pat Dardy. Yeah, shout out to Pat. Who goes by Pat, right? Right. Yeah.

But it's not a. I call him Patrick. Yeah. It's a not lesser, but Dan would never talk about Revenge of the Sith. He would say episode three. I have no idea. Yeah, I mean, he wouldn't do either, but yes. Right.

All right. Save for the Spock podcast. Oh, Mark. All right. That'll be fun. Just a needle, right? Anyway. He knows so much more than he lets on.

Exactly. Because you have to do this stuff like that. Dan definitely has a Bill Belichick talking about my face vibe whenever, when he sees Star Wars comes up. Facts. I'm not so sure about this. My face. I honestly, I've said it to you, Mark.

have not seen the films. I maybe saw them when I was four or five, the initial ones. Oh. And then I saw Phantom Menace in 99. La Reveal. Well, that's, you, it's like saying I don't eat French food because the one time I went and had food at a French restaurant, I was poisoned because Phantom Menace is the equivalent of that.

But again, also, we don't need to talk about it. I haven't seen any of them other than, I know, once as a kid. I know. And I don't defend more than about eight hours of the entire product. That's the thing that I get annoyed by. It's, I have a, I have institutional knowledge just because you guys won't shut up about it for 35 straight years. And by you guys, I mean, well, you guys, yes, but the rest of America and the world as well. You're our pop culture liaison with a massive blind spot to one of the biggest events in American cinema history.

It's why Mark always wants Pat on the show to even out the Star Wars number. I'll take it. Anytime I can shoehorn five minutes of prequel discussion. I should say, I don't, that's not a self-price. I've never said that I am the pop culture savant of the show. I have a very, I'm passionate about certain things. Well, no, you said of the entire NFL media group at one point. That was sort of where you were going with your trajectory.

Old end around scores being settled here. No, I'm just, that was an interest of you. You like to blend pop culture with football and sport. But I never said, I am the voice of the show for pop culture. Not of this show. You're voicing that upon. I meant more of NFL media. or king this little thing no right so you bring up star war yeah this is my fault and i'm

okay with it because we talked about the person um i will and i have said one of those dopy movies i said to you and zumwald i'll watch it with you right teach me you're overrating my interest in in in the whole thing too uh so no i'm being foisted into a position of like i've already told you what i feel about this gregg is falling asleep right now he doesn't wants to move on anyway i'm just saying like someone that can like compare and contrast different Kerry Fisher biographies are probably in it at the high level that Dan is saying which is fine well that's your opinion which is fine I don't want you ever to feel uncomfortable about it's but I because I am actually there is more

nuance to it that's all tell me about it I'm telling you that I think about 88% of the product is unattractive to me I think they've largely failed in massive ways tough sitch All right. Let's get into today's show because we got a very important program. I'm leaving. I cannot believe we would be caught up with that madness when we have come together for the return. Hit it great. my hand. Ah, I'll get revenge. Nailed it. You are my father.

No, that... It's a little backwards. Again, see. All right, here we are. Here we are. I'm making enemies in the room here. This is a golden boy, again, by Sam Spence, the legend. NFL films. The quarterback is golden boy of this sport and if we have carved out any if we've carved out any niches within the NFL landscape the NFL media landscape through the years it's great that's awesome and if you had to pin something that we've done on the show that has gotten the most traction it's the Dalton scale and the Dalton scale is a creation of the great

late Chris Wessling and you know what I was going to describe what that is but as I always did whenever we did this exercise and we didn't do it last year because last year was a pretty heavy year but we've done it every other year on this show I would always open this exercise by thrown it to Chris and saying Chris what is the Dalton scale I also always needed a reminder you always struggled with it I'm still not totally sure you've got it but let's see I think I have it Now, this is what Chris said the last time we did this exercise with him in 2019. Andy Dalton is the prime meridian of NFL quarterbacks. He represents quarterback purgatory.

If you are ranked below Andy Dalton, your franchise needs a quarterback. If you're ranked above Andy Dalton, you're in ship shape. Everything's figured out. You're good to go. And later in that same episode, it was so nice to go back. and listen and hear Chris's voice. He was in good form. He was healthy at this time in his life.

It was days before his wedding. Days before his wedding. He had beaten cancer the first time and was on top of the world. So it was really, it's a nice listen. If you ever want to go back and listen and hear the essence of Wes. He also went on and explained why the scale works and always will work, whether or not Andy Dalton's evolved or not. The beauty of this scale is that it's truly reflective of quarterback play in the NFL. he could be ranked 14 one year and still be the prime meridian and the next year be ranked 24th

and still be the prime meridian so here we are so right so here we are and that's true and this is tell me if I'm understanding correctly Greg Rosenthal Gregie Andy Dalton is the prime meridian so there can be 23 quarterbacks that are true franchise guys and that just means that there are more upper level quarterbacks than other years in this and using this as an example. But Dalton will always remain that cutting point, the break point between the guys you can trust and believe in and the riffraff. And as a team builder, anyone below Andy Dalton, you probably have to have a serious conversation about whether he should be the leader of your team. Well, I think we need to find who's the new Andy Dalton on some level because Andy Dalton's now

now a backup, and I think we'll get into who we are considering, who are not. Some of the youngest quarterbacks, they don't really fit the Dalton scale as much. It's more for someone that you've seen for a few years, maybe not just one year, not rookies, certainly. So it's also the memory of Dalton, of who Dalton was for the majority of that run with the Bengals. Now, of course, he's a backup with the Saints. And I have a feeling Annie Dalton's going to be part of this 2022 season more than we expect in some way or another. It's just going to happen that Andy Dalton's making a big time

spot start. But he's no longer really the primary. This is the Dalton scale. And yet when I look at the list that we all put together and then we had a consensus list that Gravedigger helped put together, Andy Dalton doesn't appear anywhere because the passages of time. And I would say before we get into our list, before we get into the consensus list, I think it is important that we pay respect to the man for which the exercise was named by Chris Wessling. Hit it Graver. Don't have success thrown in Tyler Boyd out of the slot. He's got single coverage right now.

Green for sure will be doubled at the bottom of his screen. Raven's trying to end it here. Fourth down. Gotten you steps up. Gotting throws. It's complete. Caught by Boyd. Tyler Boyd, touchdown.

Remarkable, the Cincinnati Bengals have stunned this crowd. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Week 17, 2017, Dalton knocks the Ravens out of the playoffs, gets the bills off the Schneide and back into the postseason. Wes was pretty annoyed about that, if you recall. He was. He was not like, I think it. He was annoyed that the Bills were not good.

And he was kind of on that, like, guys, don't respect them if they made the playoffs because they're not a good team. Wasn't there a heat there? I kind of recall that. Yeah, there's a Tyrod Taylor-led Bill's team that. Very different than the Bills team. This is, they are no relation to the team really. No. And they fizzled out to the Jaguars and one of the weirder, like, low-octane wild card games we've ever witnessed.

Oh, that's right. Bortles, right? And I now know, Dan, while you came into the newsroom, our newsroom is, like, very hushed. and it's like a fallout it's really strange but uh dan came in belting that song out uh it turned heads is that the last great dalton moment i mean he's had he's had a couple since uh it's had some decent start since but i don't know if there's been anything like

i think that's the dalton moment which is funny because they were playing out the string as i recall cincinnati and that was just a stunning knife through the heart of the ravens in their building, just a kind of a great, certainly the last great Cincinnati Dalton moment. All right. So let's get into it. Great to hear from Wes. Great too. Pay respect to Andy Dalton.

Hey, last time we did it in 2020, I asked Graver to go check it out. We did this with Chris also to see the previous year what kind of takes stood out from the Dalton scale the last time we did it. And now, if you could share some, and Patrick, I know you also checked out the app. So if you had anything to share, but what do you got there, great there? Great, Dicker. Yeah, so like Greg just said, even back in 2020, you guys were discussing, should Andy Dalton still be the scale? Or do we need to find a new player to be that prime meridian quarterback?

And there was some thoughts that Dave Damichick was actually on that episode. Thought maybe Cam Newton could be that guy, maybe Ryan Tanahill. A couple people said Ryan Tannahill, Jared Goff, but then Derek Carr came up. And there was a big sticking point around Derek Carr because you guys all had him ranked slightly different. You all kind of agreed that Carr might be the new Prime Meridian, except for Mark, who was very low on Derek Carr and actually said he would take Gardner Minshu over Derek Carr back on that episode. That was the hottest bad take, but really all of you guys were pretty low on course. I feel like car. Is Mitch you have a job right now, by the way? Or is he still on the street? Come on. He's a backup quarterback. He's one of the best backups in the league for the Philadelphia Eagles.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Easy. Settle down. Can I mention one. One Derrick car related item? Sure. From the year before, the 2019 one that when West was on fire, multiple people wanted to have Sam Darnold over Derrick Carr. And Greg said he wanted Andy Dalton over Derek Carr. So we have, been all over the 2019. So we've been all over the...

Because he had outside of that 2016 season been a largely hot and cold passer. Yeah. Well, that's... It's interesting because that would have meant... I'm sure I was gassed up because Donald finished well as his... You said it was just like you were positive about it.

When I made my list for this year, I took out anyone that's just one year deep into their career. Just because I think you need to see more. And Mac Jones was the only guy, and we'll get into Mac Jones, because I think he's an interesting case here. But I removed anybody. that's a rookie, anyone that's played only one year, and Deshawn Watson.

Those are the guys I pulled from the list. Is there any other takes, though, that stood out? Or was that? That was pretty much the biggest thing. I thought it was because Shaq had brought up Cam and the idea that there's guys out of the league that could make their way into the Dalton scale. But like year over year, the discussion about the scale itself, it has to be the Dalton scale. It has to remain the Dalton scale. But as a concept, because you go through lists, there's lists online.

They have you guys write lists. Everybody does list. It's hard to get the full context of a list. But what this vehicle provides an opportunity for is to discuss the way that the particular list is made, how important it is for certain things. And so if people look at the list or the consistent list and they're like, oh, you got this guy there. It's impossible. We don't know how they're going to play. We don't know if Derek Carr is going to become the greatest player in the NFL history.

We don't know if somebody's going to have a Josh Allen, like revolution. He's not becoming the greatest player in NFL history. His maturity and his improvement and where he is now, which looking at our rankings, he's at 12, and we all had him almost identical between 12 and 14, so we all saw him in a very similar way. I think is instructive because he's probably been the same guy for the most part throughout, and we were on the fence whether he's really the guy, much like a lot of Raiders fans out there. And I think now we've come to the conclusion that he is, but part of the reason is that he's improved. like you are allowed to improve

and we're baking that into the rankings who we think can improve, who we don't think will improve and Carr is undoubtedly a different quarterback than he was three years ago when he refused to throw the ball deep and now he's one of the more effective deep ball throwers in the league.

He still has the things that we got concerned about back then and that's why he's like in the 12 to 14 range and he's not in the top 10 but he got better. Yeah. You can get rewarded. And it should just so everyone knows, yes, Andy Dalton is essentially being replaced in this conversation but like to use a baseball term the Mendoza line

which was a Mario Mendoza of the 1979 Mariners that's when that was coined of a guy that struggles to get over 200 batting average he's long gone and yet that's always now how it's known it's the Mendoza line that's what the Dalton scale is it will always be the Dalton scale but who is the new Dalton Derrickar is certainly one of those names I think Mark I want to say for me, and I'm curious, anybody else that disagrees, because this isn't a straight

QB ranking exercise. We're trying to figure out that prime meridian. But there are 10 names for me that I feel, and I'll do them in order because they just, there's the order of the quarterbacks I had that are out of the conversation because there's no doubt to me that they belong on the right side of the line. Rogers, Brady, Josh Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, Stafford, Prescott, Russ Wilson and Lamar Jackson. That's where my list cuts off of, debate. I have Kyler Murray still up for debate, Derek Carr up for debate, and then everyone

else. Do you guys disagree with that? Mine is the out of conversation players you mentioned are essentially identical to mine if they're not in the same order. They're essentially identical. Right. The consensus list you were pretty close to. I mean Stafford would be part of that for me

and Kyler would too. And Derek Carr would as well. And that's our top 12 on our consensus. I mean, are we really discussing whether Stafford or Kyler Murray are, whether you're set as a franchise quarterback, both of those two guys, for instance, I think, were the best quarterback in the league for about a month at a time. Matthew Stafford was the best quarterback in the league for the playoffs, which is, you know,

I think you should get a little extra weight for that. And so he was eighth or ninth on my list overall. He's 10th on the consensus list. And Kyler, even though I guess you want to put him up here, to me there's not much question. through seven weeks last season, he was number one on my QB index. And like any quarterback that can put that kind of stretch together and he's had other stretches for his career, I'm not talking about them whether they are a franchise quarterback or not.

He has done it. And he's been a little more up and down than you would want and he's had his minor injuries. But to me, those 12, and I'm throwing car in there, the consensus list was Rogers, Mahomes, Brady, Alan, Herbert, Borough, Dack, Russell Wilson, Lamar, Stafford, and Kyler Murray. I get why Dan has maybe some Kyler concerns, though, because two years in a row, it's been injury-based to some degree,

but they've fallen off a cliff as a team. His play fell off at the end of last year. Other stuff. There's other stuff. There's the idea that is like this guy, a natural leader, is like football, everything that he cares about, maturity. But on top of that, if he reaches those MVP levels, that's what you're going to get if he grows and he becomes more consistent.

He's still young. Right. I think I feel, even though I have them outside my top 10, Patrick, I feel totally fine in terms of us reaching a consensus here to have Kyler and Carr on the right side as well. Are you on board with that? No, 100%. I mean, the way I tried to break mine down is to go, what unique talents do you have that the rest of the league doesn't offer? And my scale kind of favors that. And Kyler definitely has that. You know, there's this asinine question from the franchise about, you know, the future. Like, he's there. Like, he clearly. has the ability, and that's all you're looking for, right? Andrew Luck decided he didn't want to play football anymore. I would have still had Andrew Luck on my team if I could have convinced him to play. And so if you can pay Kyler and he shows up, then yeah, you do that. But yeah, between him and Derek Carr, I've seen enough to say, like, why am I going to go into quarterback purgatory and search for another quarterback when I have a quarterback that I can win with? We agree so much. It's almost outrageous. Like our top tens are essentially the same.

It's almost like we do a show together. Yeah. Boy, it didn't take long to come up for the top 10, maybe two minutes. And I think that's reflective of the whole, the whole lead. Tape study. I think this exercise, the top 12 to 13 and even the top 15, 16, seemed pretty defined. Like, I had Russell Wilson the lowest at 11. Mark had him at 8, Dan at 9, Claibon at 6. But, like, still, what are we talking about here?

That's not like I'm burying him. I think his average level of play has been significantly below any of the rest of the top 10 over the last two years. We kind of forget that he was me to start last year even before the injury. To me, he hasn't played at that like really high level and a lot longer than any of those other names like Dak and Burrow. And I'm sure he's going to light it up this year. But if you're saying the same thing with Kyler, you're saying I can look at a stretch. What about the first six or seven weeks of 2020? Wasn't he completely on fire?

Yes. An MVP. So he had, I don't think he's really in debate. That's sort of what I mean, that we're almost all agreeing. All these names, including Carr, for the most part, are the same. I had Tannahill as my 12, which was the highest I see that anyway. All right. So Tannahill, let's start here on Grave Digger.

I know this is a sensitive topic for you. So just try to comport yourself with professionalism. Tana Hill, you know, we've even, I think, in this exercise made him the Tennis scale. We've talked about it. When he was on the Dolphins, at one point, we thought. thought he was the tannist. He fit very well. Here we are years later. I have him at 14. Gregi at 12, Mark at 15, and Pat Claibon at 15. So he is certainly in this conversation as that guy, right? And you try not to put too much into one playoff game. And Greg, I know you've talked about it before that maybe that game wasn't quite as bad as some people remember in the playoffs.

I did rewatch it, the coach's film. that he made a couple of bad throws, but it wasn't the worst game. The first and last throw were pretty ghastly, but like, yeah, he's still, he was another, he was steady, he's a guy that you can trust, he's taking them on deep playoff runs, and yet where are we now, Claibon, and Tana Hills, we spin into 2022? It's, you feel, you felt a regression. I mean, and I haven't gone back and recently watched those games, especially the Bengals game, but it, it feels like late Dolphins era, Tana Hill, to a certain extent. And when I'm doing the exercise,

because what I did was I assigned 30 points for accuracy, uniqueness, right? And well, it's just playmaking. And so the guys that I feel like can't make plays, like Ryan Tannahill's ability to make plays when athleticism is such a big part of the game, it has diminished recently over the years to me. Do you see that?

Grave digger? Do you agree with that? For the most part, I think one area Tanna Hill doesn't add a lot of value is the ability when things break down to just make something happen off script, like roll out of the pocket and buy time. Like he has good athleticism and he can like pick up yards with his legs,

but he doesn't like buy time, buy time. He's a great red zone runner. One of the better, one of the better. But in a like it has to be called for him type way. And the only way I'd push back there is few guys make more plays when just holding on to the ball. Generally holding on to the ball

and standing there, not a great idea. Ryan Tannahill continues to make more plays in those situations, which is a hard way to live, waiting for the last second. To me, that's playmaking. Like, holding it for 2.8, staying in there and making tough throws. I don't think any quarterback in the NFL played better compared to his raw stats than Ryan Tannahill last year. When PFF had him in their top five all year long, like, it made sense to me watching each

one of his snaps. I would rank them in the bottom three or four in terms of how they protected him. The running game was obviously up and down. Maybe he doesn't, like, elevate you as much as you would like. But to me, he is, like, absolutely a solution. He's a starting quarterback. And I think he's closer to the Russell Wilson sort of car area. Like, those three guys, for instance, to me, are all in the same area, Tanna Hill car.

I have two spots below Matt Ryan, but I'd be willing to flip that if I were trying to build a team at this point. And I think he has blazing toughness. But the Titans have told us what they think. They went out and drafted Malik Willis. Yeah, but they drafted. four guys before that. And if anyone had drafted, you know, like they expected, they would not ended up with Molly Gwila. It's a notable draft pick. All right. How about Matt Ryan, Mark? Because he's a guy that for years and years and years on this podcast comfortably in that top 10, 10 to 12 spot.

But as he's gotten older and his arm strength is diminished and maybe doesn't move as well, not that he ever moved really well. He's become more of a target for the defense. Where do you think? about age 37, Matt Ryan, in a new setting with a better offensive line? I think the setting is good the same way the setting was good for Carson Wentz a year ago. And I have much more faith that Matt Ryan can go in there and succeed right away. And everything they've said about him in OTAs. I realize it's OTAs have been like he's fitting in really well. Everything looks good.

He doesn't look 38 necessarily. But at 13, I think he is a candidate to completely drop down this list if things don't go well. I don't see him sticking at 13. I have him at 13. Consensus is 14. Well, you have them higher than the consensus. He's 14 consensus. Dan has 15.

Greg has 16. Mark has 13. And Claibon has... 13 also. Claibon and I are like in a mind melt here. I want to say right now, I feel like this is the guy. Huh.

I feel like Ryan is the dude. But I'm still open to the conversation and hearing different opinions. But when I think about what this is and I think Greg I know what it is I also think I factor in you know

down for two minutes to play you need it you need your quarterback to be able to make that drive if the guy if in your mind like Kirk Cousins think that's why he's on the wrong side because I don't count on him Matt Ryan I think more times than not

he could get it done especially with the better sporting cast so I think he's right there maybe a touch above but he could be to me the primary. Where you have him on your list at 15, below Ryan Tannahill, above Jalen Hertz, Jimmy G, Carson Wentz, and down and on, that makes sense, what you're saying. Right. I think he's snugly, you know, just above it, but he does hit some of the bells here

that West would talk about with the don't scale. He rises and falls a little bit with his surroundings. But in that way that he's going to a place which I think will have good surroundings for him, especially the coaching, getting rid of the ball quickly, I like him in that two-minute situation. I like how accurate it is. I really think he could be like a poor man's Peyton Manning later in his career.

Not the last year of Peyton Manning, but the years before that, in Denver, he obviously doesn't have that kind of talent around him. And I think you saw it last year. And it was actually last year that convinced me he's definitely on the right side. Because I think he did about, there were some games where you knew that

because they were playing a team with a good pass rush, it just wasn't going to happen. He wasn't going to happen, but if he had any help whatsoever, he would be above that line. And to me, that means you're just above the Dalton's. If it was purely a quarterback rankings list, I would have probably had Matt Ryan higher, but because it's the Dalton scale, right, it's the state of the quarterback position on your team. And I'm not going to have Matt Ryan ahead of Derek Carr, right, at 37. Because of age.

Or Matthew Stafford or bumping him up. The cousins thing, I just had to go into the minutia and like go tit for tat on my three categories. to try to find out those two versus each other. Yeah, they were right next to each other. And I just gave Matt Ryan the edge. I think it wound up being playmaking because it's just so hard to see Kirk Cousins make a play when the play's not going right.

And I've seen Matt Ryan do it more. That was really what it came down to. And you have them both over Tana Hill. And people just don't. I mean, you went and did the work. You used your scale. And it could be dumb, right? It could be dumb.

I'm just saying Tadahill for what it's worth. like in terms of numbers, the previous two years, and there was no bigger fan in this room during that stretch of him than Wesa. It was a top five-ish quarterback. Now, I think you can use your logic and know he wasn't really a top-five quarterback, but just pure numbers.

That's what he was a few years before. Cousins did it again. Cousins is doing it again. Because the same, last summer and last spring, we were having these same conversations, and then you'd be like, well, look what he just did. And then you look at the numbers. And again, with Kirk Cousins,

year after year, the production is there, He completed two-thirds of his passes over 4,200 yards, 33 touchdown, seven picks, pass-a-rating north of 103. And yet we know the story by now about him, that he's not as good as those numbers look. But at the same time, like, if numbers were that easy to attain, and especially if he was in kind of a stale offense, he has some big playmakers, but, like, everyone would do it. So to me, it's hard to get an accurate way to read Cousins because he does produce. He might be the guy then. I think he fits. He's annoying.

Down four, two minutes to play, need the drive. I don't know, though. I don't know if he's that guy. Oh, they did it a few times last year. He did it. He did it. And he was great. He was great in the first half of the season.

Through 10 weeks, we were like, wow, this is a bad season for quarterbacks. Cousins is kind of having his best season. Is there an argument that Kirk Cousins this year is one of the top five or six quarterbacks? But I think it's so telling that about five or six weeks left in the season. season, they kind of did a let Kirk Cook type of plan of like, we just got to let him throw deeper, be more aggressive

Zimmer was doing it, and it all kind of fell apart after that. Was it Daven Cook injured as well? Yes. It speaks to the West. It was like take over Kirk. The Westism is there again. He'll rise and fall and when the cast went down, so too did their production. And West did, you know, ding Dalton for going

into the postseason over and completely flopping. I think that matters. I just don't trust. There was a lack of trust with Andy Dalton to rise up in big moments if the environment wasn't right. And I lacked that trust in Kirk Cousins too. It's not, I don't even know if it's rising up, like, to a certain extent

you are how, that's how good you are, right? And you need to make a play, right? You needed to see Joe Burrow be able to spin away from Aaron Donald, but Aaron Donald's one of the greatest players of all time. And so he made the play. And if, like, if you can't, if you don't have the ability to make a play when the play is not there to be made, then

like that's, you're just Kirk Cousins. Although in fairness, like, he, if he was listening to this, he'd probably be like, Um, like, at least in terms of last year, like, what more do I have to do? Had that play to KJ. Osborne to win the game. The play against the Cardinals early in the season, which they came back on the, the final couple drives against the lions early in the season. Like, he did make a lot of big time.

Like Ryan Mallet has highlights, but like. I get it. But he's sitting at 15 and he's appropriate. He's totally inappropriate. That's where I have him too. And he's a very talented thrower of the football, which I do think gets a little underrated. Oh, that's, yeah, that's a big reason. why he has these numbers.

He's good at what he does, but there are also limitations involved with him. He might be the guy. He might be. I do, but my feeling is that he is at this stage of his career still just north of that place, which is what explains his contracts he's signed.

Right, he's been paid like not Andy Dalton. It's like we're trying to, teams have been tasked to figure out how do we pay this guy because we think he's the guy, but maybe he's not, and it's worked out for him financially,

certainly. The Vikings with this new staff really went through this exercise. they took over, they had to decide whether he was north or south of the Dalton scale because they could either tack an extra year onto his contract and kind of kick the can, or if they really thought he was south of the Dalton scale, they would have done, they just wouldn't have done that. They would have eaten whatever his salary was this year and made it work, and they decided to give him the money. I do think there's hope that Kevin O'Connell bringing a more

Rams-S-type offense will help him grow versus the relationship with Mike Zimmer, which just was such a headache and such a nightmare. He had no belief from his coaching staff. If he grows at least, statistically speaking, he's going to be an MVP candidate. Like he's that close statistically. If he makes a jump from what he's done the last couple of years and is throwing 40 touchdowns in eight interceptions, like

couldn't he jump Derek Carr? Couldn't he jump Matt Ryan? I think he's on the right side. He certainly has it points. But it's annoying though. But for the purpose of the scale, right? Just because guys are lower on the scale doesn't mean the Vikings can't win a Super Bowl. You can still build a team. But ranking the players,

I'm not taking any of those guys that I have ahead of Kirk Cousins, except maybe Matt Ryan. It's true. If I'm starting a team and Cousins is there, man, that's a tough one. I mean, you kind of, I wouldn't want to be in that spot. And I do want him to eventually end up with Kyle Shanahan like everyone's been talking about forever. But it's like after they're both past their primes. It'll just be like the 49ers have totally fallen apart in Kirk's 39.

It would be like in Carolina in 2029. Right. Like the old Muppet guys that are up in the booth during the show. What are their names? Anybody? I know exactly who you're talking about. What was that Kirk? You like that?

I get it. All right. So Tanna Hill, Ryan Cousins are all kind of names that make sense. Just above it. Round zero in this conversation. Now, here's a newer name. Stattler and Waldorf. Yeah, there it is.

All right. take a break and then get to a new name in this conversation. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin, and this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that?

Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Frank. Franklin on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here.

And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape. Talk to decision makers and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow.

We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a die-hard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box, score. This podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sixth podcast on the IHeart

Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. All right, let's talk Jalen Hertz, entering year three, Eagles. We know Gregie, you're pumped up about his ability and what he can bring to this team, even if he doesn't take a big leap in his third season. I have him at 16. Greg has him at 18. You know what?

Surprised. Oh, but you had the rookie. You know what? Graver pointed out, if you remove the second year quarterback from the equation, we all had Jalen Hertz 16th, exactly. We all have him the same spot. Interesting. What does that mean, Patrick Laban? It means we watch the games together sometimes. We're on the same page. It's hard to have him higher, right? When we look at all of the guys that we have, it's hard for him to be significantly higher,

and then it's very difficult for him to be significantly worse. He's the median, and yet I don't know if he's like the Dalton scale guy. Because I think based on the numbers and where we all have them, and the way I looked at it, like, he would be the median right now. Now, is that the prime meridian? Like, he is the middle of the NFL. The thing with Hertz is, like, you expect him either to go up. Maybe he takes a step back if the running game, you know, isn't as dominant.

My thing looking at him and just trying to evaluate him, and we took the second year quarterbacks out of the mix was, I guess I looked at it like if Trevor Lawrence or Zach Wilson or Justin Fields or Tray Lance, I'm putting Mack to the side, but if any of those guys have Jalen Hertz's, 2020 season, a 2021 season this year, how will people view it? And now, granted, the running's going to be a little different, but, like, I think most people would view that as a big leap and as a great sign that these quarterbacks are improving

and that they're maybe going to get to where you believe they would be when they were drafted. And so I tend to give Jalen Hertz the benefit of the doubt that if he's improved this much in two years, Why can't he keep improving? I'm with you. I think he has a high floor. He does bring to Claibon's point special skill sets that other quarterbacks do not in many cases.

And yet it's a TBD for me. I just think that the, I think the Eagles need to see more information before they decide what to do next off season. And I'd like to see more information. 16 feels right. He's only started 19 games. He's kind of a tough. In a typical offense, too. We, you know, this is his third year, but he, you know, only started four games as a rookie.

So it's still. He could almost take him out. But he is the middle. But I think we have it kind of right where we're all feeling pretty good about his chances of getting on the right side of it, but it feels premature to give him that nod right now. Like if we had arrows, right?

We would all have an arrow for potential at 16 with Jalen Hertz to go up the list. Where's two is arrow? Consensus 17. The sideways double arrows. Yeah. Question marks. Well, the situation is so much better.

Yeah. that you think the production's going to be better. And he seems to be right around that line. Like, I've thought, like, the median for his career will be a Teddy type of career. And to a fan, to anon doesn't want to hear that. But, like, it could be worse than that, too. He certainly hasn't come out of the gates as good as well as, as Teddy did. Or, you know, some quarterbacks like a James,

who end up being kind of that middle tier quarterback that doesn't end up sticking. Tua also had about a six or seven game stretch last season where, like, his strengths really stood out. He gets rid of the ball quickly. He makes decisions quickly. He's on point. He's accurate. He has his limitations. But, like, you kind of know who Tua is.

I have Tua at 20, and he begins a period of quicksand where every quarterback beyond him, I have almost no faith. And I would never sign up as my starter. Yikes. And Tua, I think, is someone, a candidate to be benched early on in this season. So it's like, he's in total tryout mode at this point. 21 starts. What do you got, Justin? I just wanted to say three of you have Jimmy Garapolo ahead of Tua,

but Claibon has Garapolo so low on his list that it's weighing him and pulling him down. Down at 27. Hot guy on hot guy crime. It's not, I get well soon, Jimmy. I appreciate what Jimmy brings to the table. It's true. Claibon had hurt 16 to a 17, and that's where the consensus list. ended at two. I had two a down at

23. It's tough because I need to hear more from Patrick because he was just full bustering there. If the rest of the league was busting down Shanahan's door trying to get Jimmy Garoppolo, maybe I would feel like I was wrong shoulder surgery. He's got to factor that in as well. But he, I mean,

he was pretty brutal down the stretch last year. Well, and he wasn't hurt. He wasn't hurt. I mean, he wasn't great early either. I know the numbers were pretty good. But last year was the worst year of Jimmy Garoppolo's career, no doubt, even before he got hurt, I thought, as like a full-time starter, which was surprising. Tua, you could almost take these, I feel like he's too young, too, and it's a bit of a cop-out,

but I think it's just true. But to me, if you're asking the question, like, is your quarterback situation solved with Tua or not? He's below the Doughton scale. Absolutely. I don't feel good enough. Like, I think they're in a good situation that they have Teddy as a backup and that you can have another year to find out, but I'm not feeling like that's solved. And I think, just like we talked about with the top 10 or 11 names that we all felt were comfortably above, I don't think we need to have much debate about the rest of these names unless somebody wants to chime in.

These guys are all at this point in their careers comfortably below the line. Let's see. That would be in the consensus list, Winston, Garoppolo, Baker, Teddy, Daniel Jones, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, Marcus Marieto, Gino, Jake Briscuit, Mitch Trubiskey, Drew Locke, and Sam Darnold. Anybody want to make a case for one of those guys being in a conversation as the prime Iranian? No. A credible case? I do it, Greg.

Go James Winston. I know you want to do it. Well, I think James Winston has been incredibly productive and is coming off the season where he made the fewest amount of mistakes and had the best numbers of his career. I don't think he was as good as the fact that at one point in the season,

he was leading the league and EPA per play. And he was already done for the season. season. Like, he wasn't that. But man, he shows you a lot of the things that you want in an NFL quarterback. He plays really well from the pocket. He shows anticipation. Could he mature and get ahead of that line a little bit like Derek Carr did improving in his late 20s? I believe it. I believe it. I don't think he should be the line right now. I have them below. I have him at 20. He's actually my first name under what my Dalton scale would be. I'd have hurts as the last one above it. And then James is the first one below it. But to me, him and Baker are very close to

that line in that they're going to go up and down with the people around them. And that it wouldn't surprise me if they put together a couple years straight of good play where we think this is way too low for the two of those guys. If you go back to that 2019 episode again where Baker was coming off his rookie year, this was sort of a stunning conversation we had. I had Baker Mayfield is the ninth best quarterback in the league. Greg had him as the eighth. Dan the 13th. Dan was the closest, Wes had him as the fifth. That shows you how quickly things change. And now Baker is, well, I think he is

below that line. The league's telling you that. His rookie season. Right. So that, yeah. But he's a quarterback. Like, a lot of these guys at the bottom half here. If he was on the Jets, I'd have him at wherever you had him, too. Right. These things factor in. Right. No, you made a strong case, though. You had him clumped up with, like, Jared Goff and others, but

it's a reason not to rank these guys for this exercise, specifically in the first two years. Because it's tough. There's so much environment going on with how they perform. And when the environment changes. This bottom third can crumble very quickly. Injuries were a huge factor in the way that I did mine out. That's probably why Jimmy G is so low, why Baker gets punished and why James is, you know, it's hard to see them anywhere on the other side of the line just because like they have to, they have such a huge hill to

climb just to even play. This year, this year. But I think it's, it was interesting that they gave James such a big contract, the Saints, like when they didn't need to. when they obviously wanted a different quarterback. They wanted Deshawn Watson. I know we do this to James all the time, but the man is only 28 years old. The production, and I think he is a perfect guy to have this conversation with. If you put him on those Titans teams,

you're telling me he wouldn't have been productive. To me, he is going to rise and fall, and he's probably right around that line, I think. He's close. Something about it doesn't ring true for me, though. Yeah, because down four with the game in the line, he's starting to pick six. There's that also.

Well, and Matthew Stafford threw that six a whole bunch. But when you have the ability, eventually, you're going to put in a position where if you make plays and you're a guy who takes risks, you make a no look playoffs and you win the Super Bowl. Like sometimes it just... Right. Those guys are getting punished than they should, Baker, James, and Jimmy, because we've seen so much of them that kind of now we know that at best you're like a 1A where you need to be replaced. I think Daniel Jones is a tough one again to put in there just because of the situation. Yes, he's below the line. But I think he'll have a chance this year.

Man, I thought he really showed strides early last year before everything crumbled. And I haven't totally given up on it. He needs to put it together for 17 games, though, you know, at this point. Before we kind of get to our choices for the prime meridian and then maybe we could get a consensus choice, we should hit Mac Jones. Because he was the only guy that kind of stood out, stood apart from the rookies last year. like I initially when I was putting them in I had him I think either right above or right behind Jalen Hertz so around 16 or so and I think the reason why he's so different is A he had a much better season than the other rookies but B he was also in a much better surrounding so you could definitely make the case that Mac Jones is in this conversation already so that's another name to throw in there it's just a little tough for a guy that only has 16, 17 starts.

I have him at 17, and I think he's above the line from what we've seen, but again, things can change so much in season two. You know, he did trail off last year as well. So I just, it's not a shot against it because he was a rookie, and it was a good rookie year. I just need to see more. That's really when I came down on it. You got him at 14, Greg.

I mean, and if the exercise was just, who do I want for the next five years, I'd have him even higher than that. Now, I could be wrong like I was wrong about Baker after one year, but I think his skill sets will travel. And there's this idea that like he was in a better situation than all the other rookies. And I think that's true.

But I also don't think it was an exceptional situation. It was not their best year for their offensive line. It is not an amazing group of talented players around him. And I think he's got skill sets that tend to be pretty consistent and that he should be a top 10 type of quarterback. The coaching, the organization. Absolutely. He had his health in ways that other rookies didn't.

Wide receiver was Kendrick Bourne. So in the offensive line was just not as good as it was the previous couple of years. It wasn't bad either. They spent a ton of money to improve the offense. Absolutely. It's very similar to the Jaguars where I think they spent a lot and they went from like the 32nd group around Cam Newton to like the 18th or 19th. But it wasn't like an amazing group of players.

That's more about where he's ranked though. Right. But there's a group of these players that, are mysterious to us still that simply do not fit for the Dalton figure. Right. He doesn't really fit in this. It doesn't. Because I would much rather have him than Kirk Cousins or

Tannahill or Derek Carr for that matter. See, that's why I need to see more before I say that. But that's, I mean, if you like them more in general, I think so. If someone was making you choose right now though. Yeah. You would still you would go with those guys

for the next three or four years, let's say. Danny. Yeah. We'd name him again. Kirk. You know, Ryan, Ryan Tannahill. Yeah, Derek Carr. Ryan Tannhill, Kirk Cousins.

If only because they have a more established resume, and I don't know. I would just, I just want to see more from Mac Jones. That's all. But it was, it was a very promising rookie year. I could look like a moron this time next year when we have this conversation. How about the OTA conversation that he's hitting a lot of deep throws? He's worked on those dead body.

He's more muscle-bound now. Best shape of his life. I buy into it. I'm all in on Mac. Workout montage. All right, so. Not a Pats fan that much anymore, but I'm all in on Mac. What did you say?

You said I'm not as much of a Pats. It's a weird feeling because I feel like I'm so much higher than consensus on their quarterback. And I really don't think it's my bias. That's not subconscious. You still are a Patriots fan. I like certain types, too. I like different types, but he really reminds me of Philip Rivers. And I just think that, I think that skill set's going to travel.

All right. But let's not. Let's not pretend you're not a Patriots fan. No, I am a Patriots fan. I thought that's what you just said, though. Not as much as a team, but a Mac. That's a tough look, too, that it started to diminish as soon as Tom Brady left. I told you guys that even before that.

I remember Wes got furious. I was like, absolutely, I'm going to be less of a fan when he leaves. It's like, you already experienced the highest of highs. What's the point? It is not a good look. Why do we dictate to other people how they like things? Right, things come and go in your life. Well, do you think it's a good, do you think it's a good look, though?

I think the whole concept of a bad look is dumb. Well, all right. That just drops a nuclear bomb on the whole, like, conversation. Your passions, you know, they come and go over time. But I'm sort of like, it's like after I had already gotten drunk as much as I could, staying out until four or five in the morning, like three to five times a week in New Orleans, I truly had a thought that, like, it's never going to top that. I know.

I'm not going to say it's never going to top that. So I'm kind of done just like being the going out drinking guy. So we missed that era of Greg. We had to deal with the post party boy, Greg? I mean, I was still annoying back then. Like the personality was within me. I just was after. So you're hanging out with this post-pridecast if you hadn't had your party.

It was my kids last day of school. They were at the beach. They needed to be picked up. What about us? Yeah, Mark. The kids mattered more. That is a great way to put it. What about us?

That's your answer. Grave digger, did you find it slightly off? off-putting that Greg finished the pot and took off? Slightly off-putting. First of all, I stayed for an hour making other parents watch my kids at the beach while the entire school, I mean, what gets more SoCal than that? They're celebrating the last day of school, then they all go to the beach, and I'm not even there. Greg, we get it?

You're plugged in with your children. But it was such a great bonding experience for the rest of us who stayed. Randy Chavez, behind the glass. We had a great time. I don't know. I stayed an extra hour and you were already getting ready to go when I left, so I had a We had a marvelous time. Don't hit out.

We went to a second location. Nice time. Were they all there? Yeah, I think the whole crew. It was one group supporting and lifting each other. I pulled you aside and I said, don't stress at all about getting the show up. We're here to have a good time and celebrate everything. Erica made us all stay until Jet showed up, so we did.

That's true. Then we left. I was trying to get out of there before that. And Eric was like, I'll kill you if you leave before Jet gets here. It was great to see. It's not a little tricky at that point. Yeah, a little tricky. This was getting later.

You guys should try parenting if you ever want to leave a situation. That's true. All right, here we go. One more break, and then we're going to figure this out. Probably not. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero.

We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL. coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get.

Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from Scouting Report. and player development to team building philosophies,

coaching trends in how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies,

roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a die-hard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast.

Ready to dominate your fans. Fantasy League this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. all right so i'll stick with where i came down earlier on the show i think matt ryan's the pick for me i like my matt ryan a lot i like his chances in indy but i also think he's right there now where he and i think that's a reason why that's where the colts ended up digging out of their issue here um with carson wince and they remember we we talked about it um earlier in

the off season about now what do the colts do and they had to figure out some and i think this was like the best case scenario that they get Matt Ryan, but still it's this version of Matt Ryan is very different than the guy that went to the Super Bowl five years ago. So I think he's the guy. Greg, who is your nomination? Well, I'm so confused now.

After doing this exercise, because Hertz felt like the guy, but maybe he just doesn't make sense because he's too young. Like, he's an evolving player. If we all at him 16, he felt like the guy. But I actually, I truly believe that James makes more sense

as the median. That if you're James or below, you need a franchise quarterback. And if you have someone better than James in my mind, that would include Hertz. That would include Ryan, cousins, Mac,

Derek, car, like, then you're good. So I actually think James is. But so the, the median is the middle. So the player himself. Yes.

Is not the guy that should be replaced. He's the guy that is in purgatory. He is in between. He's in the dead zone. Right. I think you. Phantom zone. You ranked Matt Ryan 15th.

Okay, so that's pretty similar to me. But to me, you don't need another starter if you have Matt Ryan in my mind. So it has to be someone below it. I don't know, Hertz, Jimmy G. I'm going to go, James. Hertz is kind of a weird one in this exercise. Hertz doesn't work.

I think you just remove. Hertz doesn't work. So for me, because I'm to go off my list, Matt Ryan is a little too high for him for me to agree there. I'm going Kirk Cousins at 15. I think he's in that middle spot where he is a starter.

He has issues. We feel frustrated by him, which were the feelings that I had about Andy Dalton. But then from there, it goes to the netherworld of Mack Jones and Jalen Hertz. We need to see more. And from there, it drops off to Jimmy G. And the Niners have essentially made massive efforts to replace him. And then after that, it's backups and fill in the blank nondescriptors. Doesn't it feel like it's Kirk Cousins' destiny to become the Dalton scale?

It also fits as sort of just the person himself. Wes would hate this because he always was like, as we back. on Kirk Cousins, especially in the 2013 to 2015 early window before he begrudgingly got everyone's respect. I felt like Wes was mostly on an island being like, this guy's a good quarterback. Well, that's why we were kissing cousins, Greg. On that side of the table, he and I both had our Kirk Cousins moment. There was a little bit of a Shanahan fascination there. But you're not, you can't stay as good forever. I think he's declining into the Dalton's school. It will happen eventually. Yes. Yeah, you say he's there already. I don't think he's there already. I think he's a year away.

all right claibon and that's why i i really had to go into it to try to figure out to to slice this bread between ryan tannohill and kirk cousins and just the recent statistical success of kirk cousins and like the plays that he has made like you mentioned crack i i had to put kirk cousins on the other side i think ryan tannihill is the scale i love this wow so we have four different options so and maybe just for fun maybe we'll have a vote put it on the subreddit or on Instagram or both because I'm

nominating Matt Ryan Greg James Winston Mark Kirk Cousins and Claibon Ryan Tannihill so we don't have any way to break the tie within this room

I love it which is great when we did this I really looked at it and thought like I don't know this year I don't know if there is a perfect one I will say that

I'll say this like Winston to me I'm just not on board of him being that high in this conversation and cousins to me, I think what we just said, maybe a year or two away from dipping down and being that guy.

Claibon with Tannahill, that would be the one other than Matt Ryan that I would feel good about and be like, okay, if we're going for a consensus, Tannahill makes sense. Even though on my list, he's just above the line, but I understand both sides. How annoyed would you be, Gravedigger,

if that's how, like, the voting came down with a listenership? Not that annoyed. it makes sense. He's flirted with it before, too. He came very close to being with Miami. Right. I mean, he's been a much better player. And yet, like, it doesn't make sense

this year, but I really think of the guys on our consensus list around the middle. We had Jaylen Hurd's 16 and Tua 17th. Tua feels like a future Dalton scale type of guy that, like, you can never quite

decide. And I think it's too early in his career to totally put that on him, but when you think of players that he's like, I think of Alex Smith, who was very much a Dalton scale guy. I think of Teddy, who's a little below, but I appreciated that you guys actually had Teddy a little higher on your list than me, and isn't that much below. I did that just for you, actually. Yeah, thank you.

And so it's like, I think that could be to his future, but I think we're all uncomfortable. We're all uncomfortable about second year players on this list. It just doesn't quite fit. Yeah. Oh, go ahead. I would say Tanahill makes sense because the Titans are like trying to figure out if they need to replace him. Right. Exactly.

Exactly. I mean, that's a huge indicator with some of these guys. Jimmy G., the same boat. If I'm going down my list, right, and I'm looking at the scenario, I would rather figure it out with Tua. I'd rather figure it out with Jalen Hertz because you can get a big win there, right, in terms of the guys having the potential. I don't see anybody underneath that that it's. that fits better than Ryan Tannahill to me. Like that, it just keeps being the line,

no matter how many times. I don't know how we got back into 2012, 2013, and I'm somehow like Ryan Tannahill's biggest fan here. But I am just saying like no one else in this range, and I guess Kirk maybe would be, would have been top five PFF, you know, grades two straight years.

And then last year I know he was in the top 10, EPA per play, like, among the best quarterbacks in the league over the last three years. last three years in aggregate his numbers and his grades and he's only 33 years old he deserves a little more respect but i do understand it the eye test is all right well does this because it'll be fun to see what the listeners think but does this episode fail in its conceit if we don't have a consensus at the end of the show or is it okay for it to be open-ended mark i think it's okay for it to be open-ended because we each came up with the answer i'm not shifting off of my

answer right at this point i refuse to move it's like the soprano's like the soprano's was a finale. I always liked it. I liked it in open. I liked it in the moment. It's 15 years ago this day or two days ago, I believe it was the anniversary. And I liked it in the moment. All right. Claibon, I just want to make it known that I would be okay to move to your vote. But at the same time, now everyone's dug in. So it's not a soprano's thing because we did definitively say what our picks are. It's also like a sign that like the Dalton scale is perfect in its concept and in its creation and that Andy Dalton was the perfect person for it

and we've never come up with another person Alex Smith felt good for like a year or two but then he like started throwing deep like Andy Dalton was the perfect answer it's kind of like I don't know it's like the perfect law for its time but times change you know where I'm with Dan if I were forced

you know under duress to go in another direction Tanna Hill much more for me than James Winston Apologies, Greg. I just, I think TANN. I would go Ryan of all the other choices. But Ryan, also this is like, are we, Ryan's career could be over in 500 days. Like, are we looking for someone

that's going to be out of the league in a year? Two years? All right. Well, we've certainly given you the listener a lot to think about. Thank you to Patrick Claibon for joining us. We'll be back on Thursday. We'll be back on Thursday with another remote show. We're going to be in Santa Monica for the Talent Summit,

NFL Media Talent. Summit. We're going to be poolside and we're going to try to wrangle up some guests from the NFL media personality and analyst world. So that will be fun. And oh my goodness, a guy in a member's only jacket just walked in and we do have a consensus. The Andy Dalton scale, the winner this year is the man that is the prime meridian is. Hey everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies

to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael F.

Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy

vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. This is an IHeart podcast.