NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Denzel Ward Contract & Draft Prodigy Josh Norris

Episode Date: April 18, 2022

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal bring you all of the latest news in the NFL including who's skipping workouts, the Panthers leading the clubhouse for Baker Mayfield, and Stephon Gilmore's deal with the Colts. Denzel Ward got the bag, and draft prodigy Josh Norris from Underdog Network joins the show to brag about last year's draft (and give some predictions for this one)!NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

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Greg Rosenthal? And he's back, baby. Mark Sessler. What's up, dude? Oh, he's back! What a treasure to return. I imagine... I imagine you went somewhere, mystical,

somewhere deep. You had conversations with villagers, perhaps. What was your time away like? We went out of her way to stay. and give you a wide berth during this time. There were a couple times when I looked at my phone and they were like I had still been attached to these text threads that were, you know, exploding.

But I- Erica did at one point. I know. That was my fault. I do not blame you. I said, Mark is going to kill you. I did not come back with any aggression. I just sort of let it flow by.

But I did very little, to be honest. We had our kids home for spring break, but I ventured up into Hollywood one evening. Oh, you went into the city? Yes. And this is the wrong draw breaking. We need some bright lights, big city, but I think it actually fits on some level. Had a mystical time.

Had a nice time. That's good. That's a mark move, actually, is to walk around the city, usually find a place where someone was killed, and then do like an Instagram with the, you know, at Magic Hour. No, you're not wrong. The lights going down. It's beautiful. Who can beat the L.A. light? The scene at the end of Goodwill Hunting, where Chuckie is talking to Will and he's like,

You know what the best part of my day is? Those 10 seconds from my car when I get to your door, and I hope that you're gone. And you never said anything. He just walked away. I'm the opposite of that. That's not what I want. I never want you to leave. Okay.

So when I do that hypothetical 10-second walk, all I'm hoping for is that you're there. That's the worst. The worst 10 seconds of your day is believing, oh, this is the day, Mark, is gone. And it went to the northeast to see about a girl. I have immense financial entanglements. It's not going to be easy for me to go anywhere for long. Right. You're not going to be just driving on a highway and a beat-up Pontiac with Elliot Smith playing.

Not in this lifetime. Yeah. He leaves a note. I got to see about a girl. It's a picture from camp. What is it called? Camp Happy. You want the real name?

At this point, that is just the name of the camp. That's fine. We did. There were a few photos of Mark as a. a 19-year-old or a 16-year-old on the gram and Twitter. And sometimes I'm like, uh-oh, what's going on there? But in this case, again, I just let it fly. I think you did comment, uh-oh.

You also used to hit me up when you'd be in Hollywood or West Hollywood, and my phone was silent. Not intentionally. I wasn't trying to ghost you or anything. I just thought maybe your social calendar is very busy. All right. Enough interrogation of Mark. Welcome back, buddy.

You're a mystical man. Coming up on today's show, we had Daniel Jeremiah on the program last Thursday. Mark, while you were out, because I know you've listened to the show since you were away. But we had DJ on the show for exactly 15 minutes. That's what he gave us. And that's what we took. We actually took 17. That was a little stick it to him a little bit.

Well, that's why was it so rule-oriented just because he's so busy? So busy. It was good. It was a good 17. Yeah. And now today we have Josh Norris. formerly of Road to World now with the Underdog Network

and he is one of the top dudes in the game and the mock draft game for the draft because I mean, I'll get to it a little bit later but he is Greg statistically the greatest mock drafter of all time so we're like oh that's the dude to get on the show yeah used to work with him at Roda World but he hit what I believe was

the most accurate mock of all time was a year ago and what he's done since, especially in this draft season, is just spike the football endlessly and remind people that he's the defending champion. As you should. He takes a very serious. He hits. He hits 16 out of 32, first round picks last year. I mean, I've succeeded with my mock draft to times where I've superseded some of the industry. They don't put me in that statistical study. But I think I was bragging when I got like three. Right. So 16 is from another place. Is there a Mark Sessler mock draft coming to show? It is coming back. It's going to be a little different. It's

going to be the whole first round, but then I'm going to have an extra 10 locks that go from rounds two through seven, like targeted two team, player two team locks. And also, this will be offline. This will be maybe on your IG stories or you could find it somewhere else in the sports landscape. Our employer has little interest. Little would be strong. There's been no discussion for the eighth year in a row about that. No, I brought it up to I brought it up to Greg privately. I was like, oh, we can get the Mark Sessler-Mock draft back as a segment. And Craig was like, ooh.

Oh, so it's not even appearing on this vehicle. That's fine. We got to play it out next week. We forgot about that. A lot of buzz. All right. We got so much to get to. Let's start.

But I'm happy. Like I said, Chuckie, he didn't want to see Will. I want you to stay right here. I think that for similar reasons, but yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's that friendship, I think, was like giving and selfless, whereas Dan's is possessive, you know, and selfish. So he wants you for his interest, and that's this show.

Well, different needs. It wouldn't fly without you. Different people, different needs. You've accurately nailed that one, Greg. All right, let's do some news. With the 51st pick in the 2016 NFL draft, the New York JETS Jets select quarterback. back, Christian Hackenberg, Penn State. You know, there was a news item last year.

I thought it would be a little fun as we get closer to the draft to use our news drop to hit on some famous. And in that case, with Christian Hackenberg, infamous draft picks of the last 10 years or so. There was a report recently trying to remember who it came from, Mike Sando maybe, that players, you know, don't want to go to the Jets right now, free agents. and they've tried and they've tried and they've tried. And that's what happens when you suck for an entire generation. When you suck for, if you are a 24-year-old NFL young star, 25-year-old,

and the Jets sucked from age 25 to like age 10, that kind of creates a culture around your organization. You've got to dig out at some point. The Browns are another example that they had to deal with that for a long time as well. That's changing, I think, but. They're buying their way back. I mean, that's the other way you can do it, I guess. Right. All right.

Christian Hackberg never played a snap. Second round pick. Does he in one of those other leagues now? Like USFL started? I watched a little USFL. I did not see his name. I don't think he's there. I can't remember a pick that was so universally accepted as over the second it was made.

And that was right. Like, you know, conventional wisdom sometimes is right. Yeah. In that case it was. All right. Let's get into the news. So big wide receiver. off-season. Huge trades, Tyree Kill, Devante Adams, huge contracts are being handed out,

and the agents of the players, other star wide receivers have taken note, and they are strategizing. Debo Samuel, A.J. Brown, Samuel of the Niners, A.J. Brown of the Titans, Terry McLaren are the commanders, are all skipping off-season workouts. They want new deals. These are all second-round picks, and McLaren's case, a third-round pick that are playing. for relative peanuts, and they are performing as star players in the case of Debo and you could argue A.J. Brown superstars. So you have a situation now where what's happening, Greg, around the landscape of the league is creating a domino effect and it makes you wonder two things. One, is this become a summer long situation with these teams and their stars? And two, could this

lead to one of these players being moved as has happened so often this? past couple months. They're using whatever they can right now, which isn't much, to create some sort of leverage. I think all these teams are interested in resigning these players. Terry McLaurin is showing up for workouts.

We should clarify, but he's not going to do any on-field work. We're not even at them. He's there because he's a quote leader, according to Adam Schaefter, but he's not working out. What does that even mean? I'm just saying that's the reporting.

He's not going to go on the field, but maybe he'll do some weight. weightlifting and whatnot. Most of the team these teams aren't working out on the field yet. Anyways, Debo Samuel said he received death threats and a bunch of racist messages on his Instagram when he took the 49ers team logo and stuff off of his Instagram because he wants morning. So this is like, it's not, it's not good.

Hold together. I also don't think there's much risk of these guys not getting new contracts, but this is just sort of what you do. and wake me up in training camp, basically, with all three of these. I'm with you. Ron Rivera came out very strong early in the offseason on Terry McLaurin being a priority for the team. I buy it. John Robinson, Mike Rable, have said the same about A.J. Brown.

And they're a team that has to start looking at their offensive roster a little bit differently. If you're getting into the later stages of Derek Henry, I believe that they'd have the second-leased cap space in the league, but that doesn't bug me. I think we'll figure that out. Debo Samuel, I just would like look at the way that in Kyle Shanahan's office, offense that when he finds the right pieces, Kyle Usecheck, two contracts, George Kittle got paid. You think they're going to not pay Debo Samuel? It just seems absurd to me. It's just going to happen. The weird thing is that the agents are going out of their way to kind of make this an issue now, but players never get paid now entering their fourth year. They often get paid

before their fourth season, and that's in the post-draft period, just because teams haven't gotten to that stuff now, which is all the more reason why I don't think this is a big deal. All three of these players don't have fifth year options because they weren't drafted in the first round. I mean, they've all famously fell in an unbelievable draft in which the New England Patriots selected Nikiel Harry in the first round. Just pointing that out, a little similar body type to AJ Brown. So it's going to happen, but it would be totally surprising if it happened at this point of the year. It's similar with Kyler Murray. I think that situation is different. But these contracts never happen at this time of year.

for these types. And I would say I can't imagine it either, Mark, with Debo Samuel's that example, but I could have never imagined the Packers giving Aaron Rogers all that money and then trading Devante Adams. That stunned me, so I'm like, if that can happen, any team could talk itself into a reason

why they should trade a guy and, you know, save a ton of money and take draft picks on. There's two sides of that coin. Right. One reason you would want to start putting this message out here now is it's possible, at least, other teams,

jump in or are speaking to the agent, even though that's against the rules, that essentially these players could know what type of contract that they could get from another team and another team might even be offering draft picks leading up to the draft. And that sets a price and it just moves the whole thing along. But it really seems like all three of these guys are going to stay with their teams because their teams know how good they are. Right. I'm just trying to imagine a scenario where Kyle Shanahan in the same soliloquy tells us that we're moving on from Debo Samuel, but we're also going to tell Tray Lance, he's the starter. come week one.

Because the one thing, they had the least cap space in the league. And I know that no one cares about that stuff. But if you move Jimmy G or you cut them, it opens up $25 million space.

Right, there you go. You got to pay Jimmy G. 25 and not pay Debo Samuel 20, 25. Everyone going crazy with like, oh, they're paying all this. So much money to these guys. All the salary cap is going up. Like, they can figure it out.

Don't feel bad for them. AJ Brown is making barely more money than Byron Pringle. So I understand why these guys or agitated. Makes sense. Now do the teams blink and pay them? We'll see.

They will. The Browns. Dude. They're paying. They sent out a industry-shaking contract to Deshaun Watson, and now they've signed cornerback Denzel Ward to a five-year, $100.5 million contract extension. It includes over $71 million, guaranteed, makes them the highest-paid cornerback in NFL history, 25 years old

before the season starts he'll turn the fourth overall pick in 2018 taking three picks after Baker Mayfield Mark A, where are you as a Browns person B? What do you think about this deal? I have not changed my stance on the Browns. If anything, my

interest in them just fades into the distance. I think this is kind of crazy because I think Denzel Ward has worth the money. He is in all metrics-wise, like the cornerbacks get paid, and he's, I have no problem with the idea of it, but if you look at their cap space next year, they have $29 million wrapped up in Miles Garrett, 23 in Amari Cooper,

he could be gone, we never know, whatever Ward's deal is, and 54 in Deshawn Watson, that's $102 million in three players and guaranteed money. I think, if anything, because one thing we heard from the owners meetings is that the Haslam family and Andrew Barry on down have annoyed the league beyond comprehension. It's not this contract as much as the Watson one, but, I mean, it's changing the game to some degree. But this one might a little, and to that I say, wow, wow, like, this one's not offensive. Like, the Browns are playing too much guaranteed money to these players.

It's making us actually have to pay a contract like every other sports league has to. Like, these owners who fail upwards, like, continually when they own these teams. Many of them go through problem after problem, including the Browns. owner off the field and on the field in terms of the coaches that they've been shiny there's been no issue and yet like they they dare to complain that they are in a system that's totally rigged for them to succeed at every single level especially with the salary cap the salary cap's not going away they're ultimately going to only pay to the salary cap you could argue whether denzo ward is worth that much or not i don't think there's much of an argument the five for a hundred extension

actually seems kind of reasonable at some point if denzil ward is as good as we think he's going to be He's going to be upset three years into it that he's way too underpaid. They're just trading guaranteed money for being able to control that cap hit. It won't be that high because it's a six-year deal. They can spread it around. They can change it all around. They can do that with Watson a little bit too. But when I look at teams, if you look at certain teams where you've got 50 plus wrapped up in your quarterback

and 30 in your pass-rusher, it creates issues. Right. But when it's a six-year contract, which this is, it's a five-year extension of the one they had now. They never mentioned that first. It's not really Ward, though. It's the rest of the time. pull that money around and start giving them guarantees and that's how you play the salary cap game unless you're a cheap owner that doesn't want to be paying to the cap and doing everything you can.

The waves of the Watson deal will be shown with the quarterbacks to come, the Justin Herberts of the world. Because what they've done here, and again, this is citing the person I spoke to about this, they're creating a competitive advantage to the owners that are able to give out that amount of guaranteed money or willing to. And if you're not, they're going to get left behind. great but that's not good for the game it's not good for the sport if you're going to have that's that's essentially putting in things like a salary cap i think it'd be great but they're not going anywhere because they're still going to be making a lot of money and there's and the fans are the ones that are going to lose that that's to me the concern i have as a football fan that the changing

structures and the ownership and how this is all going to play out could end up leading to a upper class of NFL teams that are willing to pay that money and a lower class that are willing to just take the money that comes in for being an owner like happens in Major League Baseball all the time now. Teams don't compete, but they don't care because they still make money off TV deals and this and that and sharing ticket revenue. But the money's guaranteed here for these owners in the NFL. That TV money, supposedly the deal that they're reportedly got to do with Apple to do Sunday ticket, like that $2.5 billion. Everyone gets that money.

So they're going to have plenty of money. I would argue, like we're already at that point. Teams like the Cowboys, I believe, and I would throw the Eagles in there. There's a lot. But the teams that essentially haven't been rolling all this cap space over, the Saints do everything they can to spend all the money they can. They've already had an advantage. The Cowboys have had a huge advantage over the last 20 years.

They've been spending a lot more cash than a lot of other teams. And I think that continues. And I have no sympathy for the owners who can't keep up. Let's be careful with how you put that. I don't have sympathy for the owners. I have sympathy for the fans that there could be a creative, like a competitive disadvantage with cheap owners and rich owners. that are willing to spend money.

I just think it could be bad for the sport. And that's the concern. I will watch what happens with the Bengals when Joe Burrough wants this kind of money because they're a team right now that could not do that. I guess my thing too is like the players that are getting the guaranteed money,

first of all, the teams absolutely have that money. And these are only the top, top, top players. Like these are owners who are just cashing paychecks who are somehow saying, like, well, we can't pay the greatest of our players, guaranteed money. If they made, if they, if for some reason they woke up tomorrow and they had to play only guaranteed contracts, they would all be able to do it.

They would all be fine. Well, you don't know that. I'm not, I'm saying how. But then also Devante Adams, Tyree Killer moved. It's, it's something, we're going to see how it plays out. It has something to do with the money, when you guarantee money, has to be put aside in escrow. There's a whole thing, financial side of this story that the Brown's move has unlocked.

And I just wonder what that I, Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert. Those are two names that I think of ownership that is either cheap or ownership that doesn't have a lot of money compared to these other owners. What does that mean for Bengals fans and Chargers fans in a couple of years? It's on the radar. Why did Wes walk away from the Bengals? Many reasons, but. I mean, but ownership and the whole structure of that, you know, handing it down to your son.

I just feel like with the way the cap space is going up and all these TV deals and what's happening with the NFL. They're all so obscenely wealthy. It's good business, being an owner. I just don't buy that. Yeah, there are some that can spend more than others, and they've already been doing that, but I just don't buy that they'll be in trouble.

All right. Let's hit a couple things here before we get to our friend Josh Norris. Rapsheet had this. Also, Mary Kay Cabot, that the Panthers are the leaders in the clubhouse for Baker Mayfield. This kind of popped up. Friday afternoon, Greg got me nervous

when we already had taped our Friday TV show and you were driving to Vegas, but it all worked out. No deal happened. I wonder like... Well, I didn't know that we weren't supposed to go until that morning when I was leaving the building. And at that point...

It's like, Dan, you're going to have to come back and you're like in the Mojave Desert somewhere. At that point, and Kamika were going to the BTS show at Allegiant Stadium, and we were getting in that car. I was not going to wait after that. I'm not judging you for that. That was the right play.

But it almost got me nervous. But the athletics Joe Persson also reported that Baker Mayfield is, quote, not the only guy on the list for the Panthers. I'm wondering, Mark, why would the Panthers at this point or anyone go trade for Baker now? Would it just wait until after the draft and see how things? I don't. I get that there may be, you know, interest. I would say this is probably a Baker-Mayfield camp push more than it is. the Panthers telling everyone how much we want Baker Mayfield,

who has the exact same $18 million cap hit as Sam Darnold. The Browns would have to take, I think, a big chunk of that money to move in no matter what. But I don't know why you wouldn't just wait until after the first round. If you're the Panthers in a quarter, I don't get the sense that they're in love with the draftable quarterback right now. But let's say someone falls to them. You've got a guy you can bring in on a rookie contract, and you don't go for Baker Mayfield. If you're out of luck or you're waiting, try to get them later, and you're sitting there with Sam Darnold, maybe to save him.

jobs, you try to get someone, but I can't find anything more depressing than him versus Baker Mayfield in a quarterback competition on the Panthers after we both thought, Dan, that they would save our franchises. It tells you, don't, well, don't get too high, whoever you are with this draft coming up, chill a little bit. Most of these scenarios turn evil. Imagine if Sam Darnold was in this draft. He would be the best player, so would Baker Mayfield, like by leaps and leaps and bounds in terms of as a prospect when he was coming out. Baker Mayfield would whip Sam Darnold's butt in a camp competition, first of all. Josh is a Carolina fan, a Carolina native.

Josh Norris who's coming on, so maybe we should ask him. But he's got a pretty strong theory about what the Panthers are going to do. And I think to your point, why give away that they're not going to draft the quarterback by getting Baker Mayfield now, wait, you know, even if they're not drafting a quarterback, wait until that happens. And I agree. What does that mean leader in the clubhouse is like what they offered a, sixth, or they said

we'll probably offer a sixth if we don't take a quarterback or willing to pay his money. I think it'll happen day two of the jury. There is no clubhouse in that scenario. Also, we don't need to even go down this road because it's over. But I think if you would have put Sam Donald on those Browns team, he

would have had some success. And wouldn't be so easy to tell who's the better player. I disagree. Yes. But that's an old conversation. I know. Everyone is in agreement that Donald can't play now, but look where he went last year. So he still has never really gotten a chance. Right.

But I'm not saying he's a player, but Baker had a way better set up in Cleveland than Donald ever has. I can, I think at some point you can watch 3,000, 4,000 snaps and know if that guy can play or not. It's like Teddy Bridgewater was in that same situation as Sam Darnold the year before. It looked a lot different. And no one is banging the drawn other than me that Teddy is like some great starter. Like, it looked a lot different. I don't know. I think Darnold is someone that the draft community, a big chunk of them, latched on to him hard.

And it's been hard for people to let go of the idea that he isn't still a starting quarterback at some point. We shall see, because I believe they will end up fighting each other. It's going to be Greek tragedy. All right, moving on time for news and notes presented by Upwork, where you can build the team that will build your business. Learn more at Upwork.com. All right, Stefan Gilmore, former gray beer. well, always a gray beard. He has now found a real team.

It is the Indianapolis Colts who come to terms on a contract agreement with the veteran cornerback, former defensive player of the year. The deal is worth around $23 million. It's a two-year contract. This was a secondary, Greg, that graded out well last year on PFF, for instance. But certainly, Gilmore provides a shot in the arm. Even at age 31, he remains a guy that is more than capable. And they sent Rakasin away, who had been playing well at the end of the year,

and now they replace him with Gilmore, who eventually got his money. I mean, I'm sure at some point he thought he was going to do better than two for 23, and I think he got about 17 guaranteed. But that's about what I would have guessed he would have gotten in the first place. He's 32 years old, hasn't played much in the last two years, was solid when he played for Carolina, but barely had any games where he had more than 35 snaps because I think he was trying to get healthy and get to the end of the season. and he was on a limited snap count.

So it's a good move by them. And it's a reminder. I think there's a lot of free agents left, including Honeybadger, that actually are going to get pretty good contracts when they do sign. There's a decent amount of teams that have cab space left, and they realize there's no point in rolling it over every year like the Colts have done. I feel like that's a waste of resources, and teams are kind of smartening up.

I think Chris Ballard, this is when he has talked about wanting to attack the market for this kind of deal, this kind of player. They recruited him really hard. They view him as a huge leader. And Gus Bradley, it's a Gus Bradley type of cornerback who think, I think fits in really well with Kenny Moore and the rest of the guys. Their lineup on defense, Darius Leonard, they traded for Yanukon Glockway, to Forrest Buckner, Bobby Okariki, Quiti Pay, and you add Gilmore. I mean, this is a solid defense that I think sets up Gus Bradley to, you know, succeed out of the gate. I think that Stephen Holder tweeted this.

And I agree a lot. I agree with it. Chris Ballard's good at his job. And yes, he got the, he got the Carson Wentz move wrong. There's no way around that. But I give him credit for realizing it, along with ownership, it seems, and getting out of that quickly. So they get Wins out of the building for two third round picks. They get Matt Ryan for just one third round pick.

They got Rock Yassin out and got a proven edge rusher in return. And now Yassin gets replaced with a former defense player of the year. So I think the Colts, when we had a conversation, earlier in the offseason about the cults and where they stood. It felt like they were in really a tough spot considering how hot they got at one point during the season and it didn't seem to be a lot of optimism. I don't know what Matt Ryan has left,

but I think you're going to enter the season with some optimism that I wasn't expecting a month or six weeks ago. So I think they've had on balance a pretty solid offseason so far. They might not be done. They're still second in effective cap space. And like I said, I really think teams have gotten to the point where they realize,

rolling over all this money is just not trying hard enough. And you know who has the most cap space now in the league? Effective cap space by a decent amount? The Carolina Panthers can just slide in that old Baker Mayfield. You know, just slide. I'm just saying, what is it doing for you? You've got to tell all your grandchildren, oh, I had one chance at being a GM or a head coach. Right.

That's how this happened, I think, to him. But it's like, it's not doing anything for you. You might as well use it. Why not, if you're the cults, Odell Beckham, I think, still sits out. there because they need a wide receiver they go into the draft with that as a huge need mm-hmm that was news and notes presented by upwork the world's work marketplace learn more at upwork dot com before we bring in josh norris did you have any takeaways mark i know the u sFL um launched this weekend i've noticed by though we had evan sylva on the show last week and uh he's given it the old

over established the run given it the old aaf treatment where they're all over the u sFL's launch um i i so Similarly, you were that way this weekend, as I understand. I watched about an hour of it total. But I did notice that guys like Paxton Lynch showed up on the Michigan Panthers. And that Panthers team had nine fumbles in their loss. Wait, there's a worse Panthers than the one that we just talked about? There is. Well, at least out of the gate.

The thing, though, I found it fun to watch. It wasn't like awful or anything. It had, there was some good play, some up and down moments. But they have like, they'll follow. You'll like this from like, they have a dream. drone kicker cam that when you kick a field goal, like this drone follows it towards the goalpost. It's a little bit nausea-inducing. I think they need to work on it to some degree, but it's watchable, and it's, I think,

some of these guys are going to end up in camps, obviously, because the league totally misses a developmental league, and it's a way better, a way better, I think, audition than sitting on someone's practice squad right now for some of them. But then you're getting some hot mess scenarios in there, too. But like the old New Jersey generals, when I became a fan, when the USFL melted. They used to all the same names and stuff, so it's nostalgic. It's strange, too, though, because I don't know if they, like, it's not the same people. I don't even know if there's some legal thing where they might not even have permission.

They're just, like, calling it the USFL. Well, that's... It's like, it has nothing to do with the old thing. I want one of these to work. This doesn't seem like it has anything set up better than the previous ones that didn't work. In fact, it seems like it's not set up as well. The one thing it has is broadcast agreements. It's on Foxy and NBC at the same time.

What? That's kind of amazing. That's historic. All their games in the same stadium. Kind of strange. Yeah, and there was like a weather delay for the first game. Massive.

Like one game is Monday night here because it was rocked out of existence during the weekend because of weather. Unbelievable. It's asking a lot out of the fan base there to just go to games all the time. Get comfortable, guys. Well, the Easter Sunday kickoff was in front of an essentially. empty stadium and people kind of came in for the second half sign. That's a tough sell.

And by the way, if you want to learn more about the USFL about a decade ago, 30 for 30, the SBN series had a special on the league called Small Potatoes. Who killed the USFL? The answer was a former president of this country. Spoiler. But I won't let you know who it is, and it wasn't Richard Nixon. Or Gerald Ford. Those are the hints. I'll give you.

Ford gets zero. Look back. It was not Rutherford, B. Hayes. You have to piece the rest of it together. That's what's happening in the news. All right. Coming up next, Josh Norris talking draft after the break. A responsible break.

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Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Welcome back to around the NFL. Joining us now, former bricklayer over at Rota World. Now he's doing his own thing at the underdog. Network.com, content strategy and production, and one hell of a mock drafter. It's Josh Norris. What's up, buddy? And Mark, Greg, third-time caller, long-time listener, beautiful people.

So glad to join you. Oh, it's great to have you. Josh, we've already at the top of the show. And by the way, excellent mood lighting over there at the Underdog Network with the exposed brick behind you. Is that your house or you're at work right now? This is a lovely Brooklyn brick. I mean, that is American craft.

It's like you're filming a Dungeons and Dragons special or something. It's intriguing. That starts when the sun goes down, Mark. You look like you're taking a portrait for like an off-Broadway show that's debuting in Nashville. Well, actually, Josh Norris playing the role of Hamlet. Last thing on this, Josh, but it's really, it has to happen now that it's in my head. Can you do the thing where you kind of?

looking into the middle distance with like a half smile. Let me make sure that this is okay. Tell me if I'm off, okay? I love this. Perfect. It's great podcast. That was great for audio content, right?

You can check it out on YouTube, everybody. Josh, listen, you did it. You did the damn thing last year. You want to talk about brand building. You want to talk about establishing where you land in this landscape of the draft mock drafters. You nailed 16 of 32 first round picks last year. and that's brilliant

the entire top 10 the entire of 10 but I appreciate you and that is something is how is that possible and you wrote a great piece where you did your mock draft 1.0 that you have to nail that top 10 and then find quote random player

and team fits from number 16 on so there's a strategy and I'll also say that like I was watching your live YouTube show and I liked how your process is it's logic-based, but investigative in nature. And, you know, there's knowledge involved that you need, but also breadcrumbs and redstring dot-connecting,

like how you know that Ron Rivera doesn't like to leave his house. So when he does, that matters to the commander's draft board. Really, bravo, Josh. Well, it's all wiretapping. That's all it is, Dan. I will add, though, and I think you know this from growing up with Jets. Mark knows this from growing up with the Browns. Like, if there's some level of cohesion in terms of decision makers on a team, like,

you kind of get to know their process a little bit. And, you know, when I was seven years old, the, the Panthers came to Charlotte. And I just became obsessed with them. And I started to kind of figure out how they built their roster, which directions they were going with, whether it be, you know, Marty Herney, Dave Gettleman, and now Scott Fitterer. So all I thought was, but one, let me ask some beat writers in the top 10. But also, let me find, like, the Josh Norris is from across. the other fans of those teams, right?

One that are obsessed from a young age and see what they think. You see how we have a third person there? Nine of the top ten picks. This is what happens when you get an underdog fantasy ad that plays pretty often. Just saw it on NFL network last weekend. It's basically been going. It was sometimes on Thursday night football. And like, it's pretty good.

Josh, Josh, getting big head here. I do want to ask you this, because the mock draft community, a subset of humanity, is so competitive that when you nail nine nine, nine, nine, out of 10 picks. Are you, are there, you know, veiled threats? Are there, um, have you dodged assassination attempts? It sounds like you're a hated person on some of them. Right. Silva's not enjoying you like celebrating and spiking the football this whole pre-draft process season. That is true. They think I should get rid of the bit when they just carry on bits, you know, for three years at this point. Mark, I'll give you an honest answer. I now work for a fantasy sports

company that gives away millions of dollars to people who win. When I hit 16 of the to the greatest mock draft ever of like $84 million that I've been published. I turned to my girlfriend and I tell her that this achievement, a lifelong dream has happened. And she asked, well, what did you win then? Because you company gives away all this stuff. Right. Absolutely zero. Zero dollars in my bank account from all this.

Of course that happens to me. I finally achieve greatness. But you don't work for the NFL. You could be putting some money up for this. You don't work at the NFL. You're not restricted like us. You could have been putting your own cash on the line here. and you would have done well if you had done that last.

Because that's not what it's about, Greg. What it's about for Josh is the work, and the work is a reward. Is she still your girlfriend? She's about 20 feet away from me, right? So I, you know, seemed unimpressed with the feet. Hey, baby, 16 out of 32. She didn't really work that well. She said, what?

Anyway, all right, let's get into it. Greg, you had a idea here based off some over unders. Who provided these overunders? Well, we can go off the fan duel, since that's an official sponsor of us if we want. But I thought it would be fun to go through some over-unders, because you're good at Josh, obviously, getting a feel of where these guys are going to go. And it'll just give us a chance to kind of talk about each one of these players. One of the guys who I think was really noteworthy on your mock draft falling far was Kyle Hamilton all the way to 18.

His over-under now is all the way up, at least on fan-dwell, to 10-half. This was a guy that was in the top five almost exclusively in the early mock drafter days of March. Obviously, he struggled with the 40 time and the pro day that doesn't go well. And maybe that's why we're seeing him slip in some mocks. Washington picks at 11, which is a potential landing spot, which is why that number is at 10 and a half. What are your thoughts there?

I just don't consider safety from a team's perspective, like a pillar position. And this top 10 is loaded with, you know, players at those cornerstone spots, offensive tackle, pass rusher, cornerback, heck even, even wide receiver. And Kyle Hamilton, like you said, number 11 does make a lot of sense. But again, it's just serving where those teams and who's already on the roster and what the investments have been in the top 10 already. And I don't necessarily see it. I could side maybe with like the Minnesota Vikings if they think like their safety

room is getting a little bit older. I could look at, let's say the Philadelphia Eagles. Even that's over the 10 and a half. So that's over. To answer your question, I'm leading the over on 10 and a half. That's nothing to do with Calhampton as the player. I think it's more of the position, despite, you know, more and more two high shells that we hear you guys

and everyone talking about all year long. Drew and James went 17, one of the greatest safety prospects of all time. Right. I agree with you. And so just to answer your question quickly, over 10.5 is where I'd be leaning at the moment. I've got to ask you because you're leading the way, I mean, we're starting to hear more buzz

that Malik Willis is visiting with the Lions. Some wonder if that could be their second pick or their first. He's not going to be there when they pick second, obviously. Are you looking at Malik Willis and thinking, look, there's a chance. And by second, I mean their second pick after the first round. Do you

think that you have a number two to Detroit, that this is a reality that's becoming more and more? What is the over under on Malik Willis? 9.5, which feels steeply too rich. I think is going before that in my book. Okay.

So the more I get like diving into this and the closer we get, the more I think that like the Pittsburgh Steelers at pick number 20 is the first team to take a quarterback. And they kind of showed their hand last year with Najee Harris. And that pick was, you know, slidified in stone early on. I firmly, and I think you guys just finished talking about this, Baker Mayfield or Jim McGroplow with the Panthers at number six, that seems far more likely. Maybe the Seattle C. Hawks, the last time they selected, you know, near this range was pick number 15.

That was a complete out of nowhere selection. And then they've done, you know, similar things throughout this time over the years. So the closer we get, the more I think that obviously with the last year of general manager in Pittsburgh, he has viewed how he rose, how he, Ozzie Newsom, excuse me, what he did in Baltimore and said, look, he left a lasting legacy with Lamar Jackson and his quarterback. I want to do that here with Mitch Chubesky and then the rookie quarterback at number 20. And that could easily be Malik Willis there at that selection. You have, I like this going a little deeper into the first round with the team, I think, is the best team in football right now. And you're doing like your strategy.

You match team needs with players on the board. There's a lot of smoke connecting the bills to a running back. You have Breeze Hall, Iowa State, going 25 overall. You know, it does make me think about what was the last unstoppable? offense that said, oh, let's take a luxury piece in the backfield to kind of bring this all together. Clyde Edwards-Alair to the Chiefs, and that hasn't quite worked out. But that doesn't mean that another team that has a similar ceiling can't try the same thing. The bills, they're looking for that last piece.

Where is he at, Breeze Hall on this list? He's that on the Fanduel. Interesting. So tell us more about your thinking there. It's exactly what you're saying, Dan. And I think part of that is with the Clyeroyard-Eleier's selection at what, picked 32 a couple of years ago. If they had just pivoted over to Jonathan Taylor,

I think we'd be praising that selection, right? And so really these teams only have to be honest with us through their draft picks and through their wallets. Like you hear this all the time when they go up there at the combine and they just lie to you over and over again. They just lie to you. And so with the bills, they pay J.D. McKissick handsomely.

That was a contract that was agreed to. That is the type of talent that I think is kind of tough to find, a hybrid running backs last wide receiver who thrives on explosive plays and in the receiving game. And so there aren't going to be many of those in this draft class, maybe a couple later on like James Cook, Dalvin Cook's brother, but if this team wants to make a strength even stronger in the Buffalo bills and add some true explosion on top of, you know, what, some positive things they've seen a little bit at the running back spot.

Breece Hall makes a ton of sense, but I wouldn't, you know, I would assume, Greg, that like the over under in terms of running back is a half, right? Like you either are in a back going in round one or you're not. And if one is, it's definitely going to be Breeze Hall because his vision and explosive plays are really something special. Right. It's still early in the process. There's like there's things up about first running backs being selected,

different things like that. Can I just say, Mark and Josh, a little housekeeping here internal, but we feel comfortable with you. Mark, you know, the NFL has some strict, you know, guardrails with what we can access inside the building. They do. I try to access this link that has, the over-unders and I got hit with some type of firewall and yet Greg breaks through and again

it's asking questions so where does Greg factor in? I've also broken through I think you have a Wi-Fi issue Dan that's uh you need to be connected to the way-fi channel we were here before the show we talked to it I had to get off the internal one if you sign into the guest Wi-Fi it works which is crazy because we're taking we being the NFL tens of millions of dollars from these companies I'm sorry we've wasted your time Josh one little note in the old days when you'd go to a site that was at legal on any form, not, you know, gambling or beyond inside the building, a big NFL official would show up blowing a whistle. This is a, that is a true story.

That's a real thing. I see, I'm not, we can't get into this stuff. But if we could, if when I was in Vegas this weekend, instead of just walking right past that sports book, which is what I did, right back up to the room. Good boy. Proud of you, buddy. I just look, I didn't forget it. Ignore it.

Doesn't exist. You got to walk the kids to BTS and then I'm going to walk back. Well, plus an NFL employee will be shot on site if you walk inside a sports. I had that image. That was Greg's Saturday night. I think Desmond Ritter going in the first round feels like the surest of sure things that right now has like even odds. Essentially his over under is the end of the first round. And I feel like the closer we get to the draft, the things that people like about Desmond Ritter matches up with.

what NFL decision makers like, like, oh, he changed the culture. He's a winner. Like, he's impressive in the room, which is, which is all great. Like, that stuff matters. He won and all that. But it also matches up with what all the tapeheads love. Like, of all the guys in this draft, I think he's the guy that tapeheads look at and say, okay, he's going through his progressions. Okay, he's showing a little bit of anticipation here. Okay, I don't know how good he's going to be, but he's athletic, so at least there's some upside there. He's an NFL quarterback. If there's one quarterback in this draft that, like we sort of know, will at least be on a contract eight years from now on a team, it's Desmond Ritter. And that's why that

over for getting into the first round and believing that he will get taken maybe first out of all the quarterbacks, but certainly in the top 30, seems like a very strong pick to me. Do you agree? And to make this a bigger point, I think because, you know, draft season starts back in December and January and a lot of these lists from really great people come out. They have, you know, rankings that really firmly set, let's say, Kenny Pickett and Malik Willis above the rest. And even heck, at the tackle spot, it's Ikea Kuanu and Evan Neal above Charles Cross. Once you get to draft weekend, part of the reason we love it is because there's shock. There's all. There's unpredictability other than my mock draft.

And then that's when all the fun happens. And so it wouldn't be shocking to see Desmond Ritter the first quarterback off this list. I think Matt Corral has a chance of being the first quarterback off this list. The big difference here between this group, and I'm sure you've had someone talk about this already, and other ones, is like there's no one that does everything. Well, you know, Desmond Ritter's inaccuracy is prevalent everywhere.

Matt Corral is like a confident Marcus Mariotta in terms of his RPO's and only ran about like 88 snaps of three to seven steps, drops and that's about it. Can he pick it at the NFL level is going to have to win inside of structure working through his progressions, but he never did that really during his time at Pittsburgh. He wanted to escape the pocket. I don't get the picket love. He's DJ's favorite guy. And then Malik Willis is someone who has fantastic athleticism, almost the anti-Lamar Jackson in terms of loves throwing downfield and outside the numbers, but the middle of the field is like a complete blind spot. So any one of those, and I think really, Greg, what it comes down to

is these teams are going to fall in love with the person of one of these quarterbacks. Like build a relationship through his last three months with one of these quarterbacks, and that's the one they want to attach them to. And Ritter, by all accounts, might be that one. That was like a long way to say, eh, you know, I'm not loving your theory that much. Greg, my answer to that would be, I think like two and a half quarterbacks is the over under right now in round one. I would take the under on that. Yeah, I think I might too, but I think I think Ritter goes top 30, top 20.

There's obviously going to be a run on wide outs once the first comes off the board. Garrett Wilson, 10.5. There's obviously two great guys from Ohio State with Chris Olavay, too. Is Wilson your number one guy, and does he go over under 10?5. We've got the Jets sitting there at number 10. I like you using the decimal, 10.5. I like that. Well, that's another way to state it.

Go ahead, Josh. It's mathematically accurate. 10.5. Please answer. Dan's thoughts here on Pick 10 and really what? Is it pick four, their other first round selection? Yes, I think it's a sandwich prop to be laid out here that the Jets will absolutely take a wide receiver with one of those two picks because they've shown their hand throughout all their trials and tribulations in this offseason.

They had a deal agreed with for Tyree Kill. They definitely kicked around D.K. Metcalf. This is something they've been trying to make happen and it hasn't yet. So I think this is going to be the road they go. Good logic there. Also in on Calvin Ridley potentially. Martin Cooper, they were possibly in that deal. So once again, it's the paper trail that we're following with where these teams want

to invest. I think 10 at the Jets absolutely is a possibility. It wouldn't totally shock me if the Jets want to start this wide receiver run. And it's the number four overall selection. The difference here, Mark, is like all these wide receivers do different stuff. And like Garrett Wilson is your true ISO ball, line you up, one-on-one wide receiver, wins with separation, create separation, and then, you know, sustains it. Versus, like, Jameson Williams, who's like, true.

vertical juice speed down the field and then you have the other Ohio State wide receiver and a few others in Drake London at USC so on and so forth. But yeah, I'm with you. 10 and 11 I would be surprised if by that point we don't have two wide receivers off the board. But 10 and a half is

an interesting number there. I would think you might I would just say go over it because it just would be surprising if receivers were taken before that. So you're almost certainly there could be a surprise. Alkins maybe at 8 is the other one.

But you're in a draft where it seems like five or six different teams might have five or six different guys as their top receiver. You're kind of buying in that Garrett Wilson is sort of a consensus one, which I don't think is really the consensus. So I would just take your chances that maybe he ends up slipping and not be that 10 pick. I think it's really saucy.

In general, some of the dot connecting you've done here with the wide receivers because you got James and Williams to the Chargers at 17, and I love that. And you wrote about him, make a strength stronger. Mike Williams with Keenan Allen and Jameson Williams. We are on fire. And then you do the move that, you know, this was a, it's a good dot connect because what are the Packers going to do here?

You know, they just went out and they got Sammy Watkins, but then a report came out that he's not even starting to make the roster. Obviously, they need more. And you have them double dipping with Traylon Burks. And Christian Watson, it makes sense because they have to kind of go in big here. I feel like to justify moving Aaron Rogers big guy out of the room and you have to hit on one of these guys to make them a credible Super Bowl offense. So if my life is now devoted to retaining my title of mock draft stardom, I have to hit on one of these wide receivers at the end of round one. And we all firmly believe at least for one of these spots for the Packers, they will take one.

So, yes, you mentioned Traylon Burks at 22. And with their second first round pick, I had them taking Christian Watson coming out of North Dakota State. And the two are very different. I mean, Traylon Burks was kind of manufactured touch-like player. And if we're splitting Devante Adams in half, which is a dangerous thing to do, he was sports in the NFL in screens last year. Frankly, immoral to do that. Well, sports don't matter that much. If you're going to split him into 0.5, you better to realize there are some legal cuts.

He's a family. Gosh, not everyone is just for you to play your little lab games. So he had a lot of manufactured touches and RPO's. And so Trelon Burks, that's the area where he might shine with this offense. And if we're trying to replace an MVS or a vertical playmaker with, you know, a lot of athleticism than Christian Watson, who did some of that manufacturer touch stuff in North Dakota State would fill that as well. But then you have names like Sky Moore coming out of Western Michigan.

You have George Pickens who really shine during his freshman year at Georgia, then it kind of took a downturn from there. So I don't know, Greg, it's probably what, seven, six and a half wide receivers, six point five coming off the board there in round one. I'm starting to lean the over, especially with how to lead. DJ liked, DJ thought that was the one thing he felt confident and was receivers just going off fast and fierce because they seem like the best players

or at least at the depth of them seems like the best. I mean, Trail at Berks maybe has a lot of Randall Cobb to him, a bigger, better version. And you're hoping even if you take them in the first round. but that, that to me, makes sense with the pack. Yeah, my buddy, Dan Brueger mentioned that he played around 240 pounds last year. Right, and much bigger. Chiseled down about 20 pounds off of him, of us too, and we'll do it much better next year.

It is unlikely, let's be real here, that you report to your significant other after this draft that you've nailed 16 again. That's the thing. If you're setting up that this is what you're doing, you're in trouble. So I was to ask you, I'm going to put your over under at, let's be real, 13 and a half. That's high. I did not go point five. That's high. Well, no, but how much, this is your claim to fame.

Well, he has to bang me over because he's trying to sell subscriptions and all sorts of things. Well, you know, we're just for the people. It's free content out there, Dan. I will say this. I'm going to take it upon me like the 72 dolphins from here on now. As long as no one breaks. Yes. 16 of 32.

I have won. Because otherwise you're setting yourself up for disappointment. To try to repeat as that guy is almost, it's almost impossible. So that's maybe part of the reason why he's been so ostentatious with his bragging. He's enjoying it now while he can. He knows it's all going to end. It's like Miss Universe. No one cares once you get to the end of that year.

You've got to enjoy that one year going around the world, and that's it. We won Best New Sports Podcast for Apple in 2012. I don't think we've won maybe one other awards since then. But you never take that away from us. We're always the best new sports podcast of 2012. That's you. like nothing could ever change that you once got half of an entire first round right i do want to know i'm curious because i would be the same way um i'm not saying you are but maybe you were you got nine

out of ten in the first round who is the team that banged you and that you declare vengeance upon for keeping you from going 10 for 10 uh last year was the Denver broncos the Denver broncos uh took patrick sur tan and i had them taking rshawn slater but yeah not nine to 10 it really is all about And to be honest, we can open up the formula here while we're in the lab. Slater would have been a nice pick for them, yeah. So last year's top 10 was pretty easy to pick when you consider that there was rarely any, you know, defensive players considered as high draft prospects. And if they were going to be, it was going to be only two cornerbacks. So you basically had five quarterbacks to choose from, three wide receivers to choose from, two offensive tackles and then one random tight end.

And that was it. So, like, the number of picks is basically sorting 10 of 15 players versus this year. You have corners. You have edge. You have wide receivers. You have maybe a quarterback and maybe not. So this year is just much more difficult. It's got to be a bad year.

It's got to be a bad year for mock drafters. 14 is your number. I also, I wouldn't walk around demystifying what happened last season because you're taking away from your own myth building. We don't. We'll take that out. We'll take that out of the show. And you also have the consensus.

One and two were locked and loaded. so I'm going to keep that I'm going to because we'll come back to the Saturday night I am going to set Josh's over under for 2022 at and I wish I had the data for what he had the year before to as a return to the average but I'm going to say I'm going to set it at eight to half to normal see that's where I was thinking even that even that might be tough it's a tough draft and it's not a shot against you you're obviously studly in this realm but I think it's just going to be a tough night for the whole industry. An underwhelming selling point, though, for you. I tried to lift it up just to say, go out there and say you're going to do it, and no one's going to know anyway, so. Before you let you go, I do want to just, a couple comments, a couple comments. I'm just saying, Derek Stingley to the Seahawks, I just can see that. There's no need to answer to any of this.

Yeah, this is just comment. This is just Greg talking. This is just me talking. That was amazing. I'm just saying, I'm giving that an award for the best mock pick that you had. The second I saw that, I was just like, oh, yeah, that's such a Seahawks type of move. Jordan Davis, you have going eight, and that's the other one, even more than Ritter, that to me, the over-under still doesn't seem high enough.

I think it's at 13 and a half right now, Josh, doesn't it just seem like there's no way the NFL is letting him go that far? Just quickly on him, I mean, he legitimately is the most athletic prospect to ever enter the NFL, ever. In a draft where no one's excited about anyone, where Trayvon Walker could go one just because people are looking for a home run. So he could go top five, I feel like. Who the hell knows?

And we've seen, you know, Derek Brown go. go top 10. Ed Oliver go top 10 at defense stock. Quinn and Williams go top 10. I really liked a lot of those evaluations. And I understand that, you know, he played about 27 snaps per game. But if you want to acquire a talent at like 6.6.340 of Jordan Davis, you can't sign that in for agency. This is like a new kind of prospect that we've never seen before. So I just don't understand. And maybe it happens how that falls out of the top 10 when like you said, there's so many questions this year. And it's quote unquote, a poor draft. And then you mentioned you're like Mr. Panther's expert. I thought you've had a good theory about kind of what they're thinking in terms of

quarter. You've thought that they were maybe getting Baker this whole time and that the quarterback stuff is smoke. And now it's looking as we get closer like that, that seems correct. But why do you think that? Oh, for a number of reasons. One, like that they've missed out on veterans these last two years. Like that's where they put all their eggs, right? Was a Matthew Stafford trade, a Deshawn Watson trade, heck, even hoping for Aaron Rogers. And I just don't know how a team could bypass the evaluations of Justin Fields and Mac Jones and say, oh, yeah, these guys are definitely better this year than they were last year.

And when you consider that Scott Fitterer traded out during his first year as GM four times, and this year they don't have a pick in round two or round three. And so, like, having more darts, having more selections. And they're all going to get fired if they draft a rookie quarterback who can't play right away. Right. So we're a long way from mutual disinterest.

Right. I also, I'm wondering, like, so they're enamored with what Baker Mayfield has put on tape overall? I mean, I don't know if Baker Mayfield saves your job either, to be honest. No, but I think that this is also a owner that does like to put his fingerprints on things. And while the early Teddy Bridgewater experiment was supposed to be a two-year plan, that turned into anyone but Teddy. So we bring in Sam. And now it's turned into anyone but Sam. So now you bring in either Baker Mayfield or Jimmy Garoppel.

And it's just very clear that they don't want to sit through the growing pains of whatever rookie they put in there. Tough time here for Panthers. And then, yep, you have it. You have them going after offensive line, which is, that's kind of like a key with everything with that team. If you want any quarterback to thrive, you better do a better job up front as well. Josh, you've said it all. And I will say this, you're predicting 14. You had 16 last year.

I hope you do 16 again or higher because if you can get to that, if you can do it two years in a row, you could build an entire you could take everything behind a paywall at that point You just retire Right well you got to cash in once At this point yeah You have to demand

Underdog does pay you a million dollar bonus Like they pay these other things You're doing the I mean I'm sure They're not giving you Are they giving you extra for those ads that I see? That's business You know here's speaking I'm just saying you're a commercial

You're a commercial superstar You're nailing these mocks Underdog has to step to the plate is what I'm saying. But he needs to have 16 more. Right. They're waiting to see what he does. Right.

Exactly. And the ATN odds maker set at 8 and a half, but don't take that as us doubting you. That's just something. You have to set the odds somewhere. I'm hoping you get 0.5 of the draft correct again. Mark, I appreciate your optimism most of all. Absolutely.

I'm on your side. Josh, thank you very much, buddy. Thank you guys. Keep up the good work. See you, Josh. Thank you, buddy. And you check out Josh Norris. Norris and at Underdog Fantasy.

A delightful conversation, a fun guy and obviously knows his stuff. All kidding aside, that's really good what he did last year. And reading his content this year, all that kind of makes sense. Sometimes it doesn't follow logic, though, draft night. Because all it takes is one team to do something insane and everything gets thrown a skew. That would be, we'd have to bring him on again because that would be electric. I feel like he was like a, I'm trying to remember when he started at Roto World. He definitely was one of those that where he just kept emailing Evan Silva every day until he just like wore him down and Evan.

So you got to do. Had like was forced to hire him. I think he also. That's a great thing to say about him after he's. No, no. I mean, it was one of the best moves Evan ever made. He recognized that. But it took that sort of persistence and just like.

Never give up. Don't ever give up. Mark Sessner. I also would say one other thing that 10.5 when we are talking about picks in the draft is different than points I don't call point spreads 17.5 that's 17 and a half

in a college wipeout type scenario but 10.5 in this I think is apt yeah no it's not wrong it was just it wasn't it was a little unorthodox jarring to you but that's fine it's good to have you back Mark

it was like last week was a nightmare i was stuck with gregg all by myself i had a great time last week i'm happy to have this job uh we will be back on thursday and we have one more tv show before we go on a hiatus on friday so if you haven't seen it yet first of all thanks yeah good for you nice job on your part that's that's cool but you have one last chance not to disappoint us on friday the around the NFL broadcast on network check your local listings uh we got a text schrager i don't know shriger knows that uh we're on california time because every once in a while shrags will send a text at you know four in the morning uh but it's nice to wake up to it and uh and he's oh your show was on at 3 a m today

it was and it's monday for a show we taped friday morning a 3 a m air it's you know it's maybe a little bit out of time at that point but still it's good to be on tv i guess i think uh Got such a response over the weekend, just like, wow, these two guys are hot. Let's just put them on nonstop until Monday. Loop it, baby. Loop it, baby. All right. Thank you to everybody.

Thank you to Ricky. Thanks, Erica. You're welcome, guys. That was great. Good. I didn't respond to that. Did you learn anything? That was like an Erica bot that we're going to have to create in the next little while.

That will be something to work on. All right. I didn't respond to that thread yet. I realize I probably should to not get back. into an awkward place with Peter Shrigger. I really respected what he wrote and what he had to say. It just was early in the morning when I read it. Right, right.

And Mark was actually probably awake at that time. Well, I also wasn't on the episode. So it did not involve me. Maybe that's why he was watching. That's your Erica bot. All right, that's it. Dan Hansa signing off for Quiet Storm. The old boss, Ricky Hollywood.

Chavez, Gravedigger, Sean Kelly, breakout star of the... Josh Norris. Josh Norris, of course. Thank you, buddy, for joining us. Till Thursday, heed the call. Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast.

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