NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Diggs Gets the Bag; Status of the Saints with Katherine Terrell

Episode Date: April 8, 2022

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus and Marc Sessler.. that's it... bring you all of the latest news around the NFL including the report that teams aren't calling the Jags about the number 1 pick, Steve Wilks and Ray Horton joining Brian Flores NFL lawsuit, and the Bills paying Stefon Diggs. The Athletic's Katherine Terrell joins the show to make sense of the Saints offseason and what they could be looking for in the draft. Dan and Marc close the show by sharing their 4.5 pillars of success to starting a podcast.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Yeah Yeah I got out of everybody How are you today I wanted you to have a part too No I just go Hey, dog. Welcome from the Chris Wessling podcast studio.

Not the Mike Franceses studio. They name that studio after him down in Queens. I like our name better. From the Chris Wessling podcast studio. It's around the NFL. And yes, me, Dan Hansis, him, Mark Sessler, the two-man show a la Mike and Chris on on New York, the station that, as we've said on this show, and we've had Chris on the show many times, the mad dog.

We're not here without those gentlemen and their show and the fan itself. So great to do a two-man show, missing Greg, but he's on a well-earned vacation. So we're going to hit this Thursday show hard. Greg had a tweet about what, 30, 40 minutes ago at this point of the ocean of water. And he simply wrote, what was it, Erica, peace for seven seconds? Yeah, he wrote seven seconds of peace. What's that about? Because that's a little out of character.

It suggests that he's not been in a peaceful situation for the remainder of his son. It was an Instagram story and it was a photo, a video of just the waves softly in the distance. And there was a nice little, you know, these walking paths on the beach that are very quintessential Martha's Vineyard. And I responded to it. Don't do it. I think I know what it is. That's when God carried, Greg. Yeah, the footsteps.

No, I think I know why he's sharing that. Oh, actually, now that you say that, I think you know. but what's causing him to be contemplative and open in that moment. Today's show. I like that for him. Is a good, yeah, again, vacations are good. You're going to be on one next week. That's correct.

I'm the only one that doesn't take a vacation. You know, I just keep going. You just went to Disneyland like 80 hours ago. I tried to sneak that one through legislation. I'm going to do it. It's so annoying. I'm the only one that's here every single day. Stay behind that glass and grind.

Wait a second. Don't even start. Don't even start. All right. Today's show. Good one. We, you know, some of those timing things that happen sometimes that are annoying. We finish up our show on Monday and we learn right after the show is over, blockbuster trade between the Eagles and the Saints. And we're going to get the Saints side of that with Catherine Terrell of the Athletic. What it means for them, a lot of speculation. But why don't we go to a trusted reporter down there and get her take on where New Orleans is in two. 2022 because they're kind of a tough team to figure out right now. They are. And I think the move itself was, you know, raised a lot of debate about why it happened. And, you know, the fact that in real life we have talked to Catherine already, I can promise you she brings some answers.

Okay. Should I've told them that? I don't know. The other thing that's going on this week, Mark, is for the past two days, this building here in Los Angeles has been swarming with current and former NFL players for the broad. podcast and media workshop, and we were asked to lead the forum on how to build a successful podcast without trying. And I feel like it's been a very interesting two days. It's been a lot of work, but rewarding ultimately.

Right. The next time anyone in this company points at me and says, not doing enough on the company Manfront, I would call the last two days extreme service to the company, the company, but I came out of this with, no, I came out of this with a sense of gratitude, too, because we got to hang out and talk with, you know, 30 plus NFL players. And I mean, we're talking guys like Richard Sherman, you know, all sorts of dudes. And Larry Fitzgerald, I had an incredible time. Today we got to do a little podcast with them, test or test podcasts, and they were great. And I think that we, you know, we can't air any of them, but we got some great information

out of them, some good background info. Yeah, Cam Hayward. That was incredible. Avery Will Williamson, Marlon Humphrey, Gerald McCoy, just some of the names. And first of all, Gerald McCoy had takes. Yes. He thinks that Christian Bell is the worst Batman, which is very interesting, but says the Dark Night is the best Batman movie. So you guys break that down privately, if you wish. The other thing that I thought was really interesting, and it did get me a little

introspective, Mark, because, you know, and nostalgic, because tragedy took Chris Wessling from us. Greg's on vacation. It's just the two of us, and that's how our show started as the ATL Debate Club. And way back when, in February of 2012,

the first guest that we ever had, it was a 10 out of 10 on the P scale, was Richard Sherman sitting in this converted closet in the old Culver City office that they had turned into a quote-unquote podcast studio. And so it was just so interesting for 10 years later,

almost to the month, here we are again. And now Sherman is basically a borderline Hall of Famer. We've come, as far as we've come in this business, and we got to talk about that with Sherman. He remembered that interview, and I just thought that was like a full circle moment

that's going to stick with me. I don't know what happens with our future, but that was a nice little full circle moment. It was. I also would say we nailed the interview. Killed it. We got incredible content out of him. The room was silent, just breathless,

listening to that three-person weave. And he's great. He has his own podcast. I mean, he doesn't have a whole lot to learn when it comes to podcasting. He nailed it. And the other thing is like, I'll never forget when we had,

we were very new when we interviewed him way back when. And we had been charged with writing endless Richard Sherman Post because that's when he was sort of becoming very loud, very famous. And he had come into that interview, having read every Dan Hansis

and Mark Sessler Post, and he's like, I've been reading your stuff and I got a little bit of an issue with both of you and we thought, oh, this is going to be tough. But he was great then. He was great today. He was, he was.

And, yeah, so that was really cool. And we are now going to spin forward as the draft is approaching here. And before we get to Catherine Terrell talking about St. Eagles, let's hit the news. Martin Scorsese has nine Oscar nominations for directing. But his only win was for what movie? I'm going to have to guess and say eight mile. Does that make you feel better, Eric?

I know you had a difficult... A little bit redemption. On that show. Yeah. Now when you type in like dumbest, weakest link contestant, this one comes to the top. For a while, I think I had that. But Justin actually found it and sent it to me before it started circulating on Twitter. Yeah.

And I was like, he was like, does this make you feel better? And I go, no, what would make me feel better is not thinking about the like $60,000 that I would have had every single day of my life. not to, but you'll never get it out of your head. Totally. Can I just hear it one more time? Because I like the confidence in which he started in the M&M movie. Martin Scorsese has nine Oscar nominations for directing. That all is that?

But his only win was for what movie? I'm going to have to guess and say eight mile. So confident. He says guests, but he's like, you know. Is it the departed? That's correct. That's correct. Yeah.

Which is by far, well, I don't know, by far. worse, but, like, I would say I would put that in, like, his bottom end to the top 10. Same. Goodfellas didn't get it? Taxi driver. You didn't get the statue for a taxi driver? It's problematic. I like The Departed, but it's fine.

It was certainly not his, not Martin Scorsese's finest. Why is she pronouncing it that way? Marty Scorsese. I don't know, but. You know what really hurts? It's one of those movies, one of those early 2000s, aughts movies where the technology, cell phone technology hurts the movie because a big. part of it is like Matt Damon and his fancy flip phone like connecting with

spoiler alerts abound with the Jack Nicholson character get letting him know that the you know the the drop is on and all this other stuff going on and you look at the all I can think about it is like how stupid that phone is look how he has to hit the number one three times it takes you out of it takes you out of it I know this is totally you know it is on topic with what we're talking about now but I guess they're doing this thing where if you go up to someone and I go Mark pretend you're answering a phone anyone that's pretty much my 30 or older is going to do the pinky and the thumb

and put it to their ears but kids under that are like under 25 when you ask them to like pretend you're getting a phone call they fake hold an iPhone kids don't don't do that anymore we're just crazy what else you got?

You were just talking about flip phones that's an interesting fact I think it's topical for what we were just discussing yes let's talk I hate you Let's talk a little bit about this trade, Mark, not from the Saints side because we're going to get to that with Catherine.

But I'd like to talk about it from the Eagles side because they send number 16, 19, and 194 to the Saints. And they get back 18, 101, 2137, and a first round pick in 2023 and a second round pick in 2024. I think the general vibe, and we'll get to it about the Saints, their position to really make a move this year, make a splash. Who knows, maybe get a quarterback. The Eagles, I thought it was a slam dunk trade for them on a couple of levels. One, because you get that another, you still have two first round picks this year. Now you're going to have two more in the future, especially when or another in the future. You don't know what's happening in New Orleans.

It's a rookie head coach, quarterback uncertainty. That first round pick in 2023 that they're inheriting could be a lottery type pick. So I love that. And it allows you to kick the can a little bit on Jalen Hertz. and make him move down the road and give him a long runway here. You look at the fact that they extended Howie Roseman and that one of the reasons they parted ways with Doug Peterson

was a disconnect on wanting to take a more patient approach to the future. Coaches don't want to do that. They want to win now. And this situation tells me that Howie Roseman and Jeffrey Lorry waltz arm in arm in the concept of a more patient build. and they like next year's quarterback class better than this year's and you're right it's immense Jalen Hertz

as your starter for year two under Nick Siriani which he deserves that I think let's see what they can do they had a very interesting offense run heavy last year do you roll that back out do you try to grow him as a passer a little bit but in general like it's a one year audition because I think that one thing

we know about Howie Roseman in terms of his fondness for trading for big moves that if they don't love Jalen Hertz They've got the ammunition. The only team next year with two number ones already, which is like they keep pushing that thing down the road a little bit. It's a good timing for a chance to change quarterbacks if you needed to

or trade for a veteran. Absolutely. More updates on the class action lawsuit that originally started with Brian Flores. It's been amended now, new allegations against the Cardinals, Titans, and Texans, and some other big names joining Flores' aside. former head coach Steve Wilkes, formerly of the Cardinals, and former NFL assistant coach Ray Horton, both black men have joined that federal class action lawsuit filed earlier this year,

alleging racial discrimination and hiring practices by the NFL and its member teams. Now, if you don't remember the Steve Wilkes era in Arizona, that's because it was a blank in your, you'll miss it. It was between Bruce Ariens and Cliff Kingsbury, Wilkes was one and done. It does not happen often in the NFL. It does happen one and done's. But Steve Wilkes claims that he was hired as a bridge.

And he was never given a fair chance to make his way with that team. He also marks cites some issues in that building. Steve Kime, the general manager. He gets arrested for a DUI, leads to a suspension that carried throughout training camp and through a portion of the summer. And he said that hamstrung, Steve Wills, Wilkes in his first year on the job, and also that the general manager Kheim was working behind the scenes

when he shouldn't have been on a David Johnson extension. So some malfeasance by the team. Wilkes doesn't feel like he has a fair shot. And then Ray Horton says he believes he was a part of a sham interview with the Titans before they made Mike Malarkey their full-time head coach, something that Malarkey himself acknowledged in a interview earlier. Yeah, I want to read what Mike Malarkey said on this podcast. interview in 2020, said that the Titans told me I was going to be the head coach in 2016

before they went through the Rooney Rule. And so I sat there knowing I was the head coach in 2016 as they went through this fake hiring process. And, you know, he's, he has also expressed remorse for the fact that he didn't do anything about it. And that, that to me, of all this stuff is the most trenchant thing that happened. Because look, that's a coach telling you that the team turned around and told him, we're not taking the Rooney Rule seriously on any level. And I think that if you look at the Wilkes situation, more birds-eye view, he's saying, look, any coach, most coaches that are in year one have taken over a team with a lot of issues. That's why you have a new coach. And I do think it's fair to say that he was treated like a bridge coach, that he was put in a bad situation.

When would you need to be linked up with your general manager more than in year one when you're navigating a totally different type of job as head coach? Josh Rosen was the quarterback. It was a huge mess. the team had fallen off a cliff at the edge of the Bruce Ariens experience, and they turned around a year later, Fall fascinated it with Cliff Kingsbury, and Wilkes is gone. So it's like, was he given a fair shake? I mean, I, you know,

the Cardinals can point to the team's struggles that year, but he can also then point to, yes, what you're saying, especially with Kime, I think in this situation, Kime and his suspension is the smoking gun. That Kime, by the way, still the general manager there, despite those off-the-field issues, and not only that hurt Wilkes in his mind, mind, Kime wasn't even taking the suspension the way you should.

He was breaking rules during that process. Just that you're getting, when you peel back the layers of the onion, you see some of the dysfunction that's going on behind the scenes that we're not privy to on the surface. It's been a cynical offseason in a lot of ways. And when you see more and more examples, and I mean, it's not just this year, it's every year that the Rooney Rule, while a good idea in theory, has been treated in a disgraceful fashion

by a lot of teams in different ways. And I mean, there's all that you see it all the time, that you know they're going after big name coach X, who we all know about some guy. But then they cycle guys through for interviews. And I understand the feeling that look at these interviews aren't being taken seriously. How do I really have a chance to win this job? And the Rooney Rule is not just about getting experience as a head coach in the interview process. It's about opening doors for head coaches. And that's just not happening enough.

Horton said in his statement Thursday, he was devastated and humiliated when he learned. that his interview with the Titans was a sham, he said, by joining this case, I am hoping to turn that experience into a positive and make lasting change and create true equal opportunity in the future. And then that, of course, you think about Brian Flores and his part of this case, this potentially landmark case with the humiliation he felt, obviously, when a guy that he looked up to in the business, Bill Belichick got caught up in that mistaken text. When he learned, that he was not an actual candidate for the Giants job, according to Mr. Flores. And I should say the Titans released a statement on this connected to Horton and that job situation.

And it read our 2016 head coach search was a thoughtful and competitive process fully in keeping with the NFL guidelines and our own organizational values. We conducted detailed in-person interviews with four talented individuals, two of whom were diverse candidates. It's no decision was made and no decision was communicated prior to the completion of all interviews. So somebody's lying and you can decide for yourself who that is. I would just say with everything that we know about Mike Malarkey, why on earth would he go on a podcast and say that out of thin air? That's my question. I mean, I know who I side with. All right.

Let's move on back to football news. The Bills signed Stefan Diggs to a four-year, $104 million extension. This came after there was some internet percolation with Trayvon Diggs. It would be great to play with his brother. Come on to Dallas and the bill say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop the clocks here. We are not letting this dude go anywhere.

He's been such an important part to what they've done in the last two years. I mean, Josh Allen literally tweeted no at the concept of that. And I think that's because when we look at Josh Allen's rise, it's so tied to Stefan Diggs. And the bills, to me, this was about awareness because you look around the league if you're Brandon Bean

and it's Tyreek Hill, it's Devante Adams. These wide receiver contracts are blowing up and he still had two years left on his deal, Diggs. But they were like, let's do this now to A, put to bed any sort of controversy here. B, and no team in the league, I think, honestly, has done a better job of team building from where the bills were four years ago to now.

I mean, they are now a rich Super Bowl contender and there's no way you let Josh Allen's sidepiece. They work together so well. They love each other. You don't let them go. There's just no, this can't be a Devante Adams or Tyree Kill situation.

It's funny as part of this broadcast boot camp. Oh, can I share one more thing about the boot camp? No. And it was connected to a, I believe, a former bill. So we did it. It was two groups of podcast hosts. It was you and I. And then we got some good help from Rachel Benetta,

from Benched with Benetta, Marcus Grant, from the NFL Fantasy show. and we were alternating back and forth. We had, they had what they were calling. They started setting up their mini pods. It was like 10-minute podcast with 20 guys and we alternated. They started, Rachel started calling it, well, welcome back to the Chop Shop.

Well, it was Marcus came up with the name, but that's what they were calling it, yeah. And then we said, we started saying Chop Shot. And then Rachel started giving us a little attitude. She was annoyed at us. You can't take our subpods name. So what do we do? Well, we came up with the new one. Yeah, we came up with a, you know, we workshopped it during a 15-minute break when we

came up with Chop Stop. Chop Stop. Which actually, you know, this was probably mid-way through the journey of these pods. Right. You know, there's a bunch of people in the room listening to our work and their work. And Chop Stop, the Q rating on it, I mean, it just started to take off. And I think that the Chop Stop came. It's a salad brand.

Like, it's a store. It's like a fast food salad place. Well, that doesn't help us. Well, the players, I mean, it just created a free-flowing kind of raw, dangerous energy in the room with the players. They enjoyed it. And then I know because you're a big preparation guy. We were getting close to when we had our Catherine interview

and there was one more to hit. And I said, let me stay back. Rachel had to get going. So it was just Marcus and I? You know, we did? I don't know. We had a great sit down with future Hall of Fame or Tori Holt.

And we hosted the chop, chop, stop. But what is, okay, because so what did Tori Holt, without any concept that this was this dueling banjos thing, what is his response to that being, the name of the show. General confusion, as you could have. But what I was going to say was somehow when it came turn, a man walks in, introduces himself, it's Jarrett, it's Jarrett, Jarrett,

what is it, Ricky? Jiris Byrd. Jiris Byrd. Jirous Byrd is in this conference room with us and we don't, it's not a chop stop interview. It's a chop shop shop interview and not a chop shop shop stop interview. and I just feel like we should have had Jairus Byrd

Jairoos Bired Any podcasters in the world should have Jairus Byrd Jairoos Byers

That was You know There are a lot of Corpos involved here And they did a wonderful job I really admire the work Who the corpos involved? Yeah I really admire them

But this was maybe a misstep on their part. There's a lack of awareness, unlike Brandon Bean, a lack of awareness here. But now circling back to my overall point as we talk about Stefan Diggs, we talk to a lot of cornerbacks, a lot of guys that have had a lot of success in our league. And the wide receivers are happy that these wide receivers are getting paid like quarterbacks almost now. And the cornerbacks are justifiably like, what's going on here? Why is J.C. Jackson getting, you know, 15 million guarant? guaranteed and the wide receivers are getting 24.

What's up with that? The J.C. Jackson thing came up probably seven or eight times. Yeah, anyway. Stefan Diggs. That's good, though. I mean, they are so locked and loaded. The time is now. And just so you know where this all fits in as the dust settles in this wide receiver derby for the superstars, Tyreek Hill, 72.2 million guaranteed in his deal signed last.

month, Stefan Diggs 70, Devante Adams, 65.7. And, again, Tori Holt, I didn't bring it up to him because I didn't, I didn't know how he would take it. He wishes that he was, obviously, in his prime now to get these paydays, but I did look it up on a website. And Tyreek Hill's salary this year is 43.2 million or something. It's a front-loaded contract. And Tori Holt, one of the best receivers of his generation. And I know different era and inflation. But still, I think he made about $45 million in his career. His career, 15 seasons. It's got to be annoying. I think it's one of the reason he's, you know, looking for work as a broadcaster. Yes.

Well, I hope he's okay financially. Anyway, let us now move on. Right. By the way, like having at some point in your life earn $45 million is not, you know, that's not bad. Hey, but that's before taxes, though, you know. That's true. According to our friend Rapsheet, the phone is not ringing off the hook at Jaguar's headquarters for the number one pick. And, you know, we're going to continue to dive deep or start diving deep as we get closer and closer to the draft.

But it is indicative, especially when we just talked about or about to talk about the Saints. And what they're going to do now that they have two first round picks, like the quarterback situation is affecting the draft. Like you always feel like even when it's a not a big quarterback year, inevitably someone's going on the top 10 or you end up seeing two in the top 10 when you're like, oh, you go to February before the combine, we're not going to see a quarterback taken in the first time. They always get taken. However, there's no Trevor Lawrence or Zach Wilson or Trey Lance this year. And that's why the Jaguars are just going to have to deal with possibly sitting at number one, which could end up fine. But you also don't cry them a river because they had the number one pick last year and they got Lawrence who was believed to be a. generational talent. Right, and it sounds like, you know, they'll just, Aiden Hutchinson will

become a jaguar, you know, looking at most mocks and what people think. And people aren't trading up for that guy right now. I get that. I mean, this is just a, it's an atypical draft. I mean, if anything, we know the quarterbacks are always overinflated to almost an annoying degree, it's not happening this year. And if I look at the teams that I think would go quarterback in the first round, even if some of them feel a little early, it's the Panthers at six, the Falcons at eight, Seattle at nine, potentially. Then you've got the Saints sitting there with their situation, and then Pittsburgh down at 20. And I think a lot of these teams feel like these quarterbacks, if you're going to get one of

them, it's not Andrew Luck scenario. They're going to fall, and I think teams are comfortable sitting where they are. That makes sense. And other news. We're rolling, Sessler. It's a very smooth operation. Absolutely. Speaking of the draft, there was a report floated out there that the Jets offered up the number

10 pick for D.K. Matcalfe. Does that sound familiar, Mark? it does because I I why in what way because I had read about this earlier so it is familiar to me oh good you don't remember the entire segment of the podcast where I laid out a trade scenario that involved the Jets offering up the number 10 overall pick for DK McHF is it does it go away that quickly it does but I think that um I think that probably it tells you that someone like joe douglas is listening to the shows and you know getting ideas from you I don't know about that but anyway it's been shot down in some corners and speaking of big name wide receivers

A.J. Brown isn't going on the trade block for the Titans as long as I'm the head coach, says Mike Vrable. He said that on the Rich Eisen Show. So I don't know, sometimes you don't believe these things. Sometimes you do. So right now, according to one report, the Jets are trying to make a deal with Seattle. But other reports say that's not happening. Seattle's not interested in moving. D.K. Metcalf, same thing with A.J. Brown. But I think we're just trained at this point, Mark, to expect the unexpected at this point. One of these guys moving. We'll see if it happens. It answers the question for me if Seattle, you know, quietly or not quietly,

was open to a massive true rebuild because this was the Jamal Adams pick. They could get it back if you want to move this wide receiver and you want to go into that. I don't think they're interested in that. I think this is a team that is not finished, obviously, at quarterback, and there's more to come. And so I look at both A.J. Brown and D.K. Metcalf, and especially from the Titan side and say, I would never in my life allow for that to happen if I was like.

the general manager to move AJ Brown. He's two keys, too important. Not every one of these wide receivers can have their fancy when it comes to moving around the league. Can we get the, I have a different Titans thing to break down with Grave Digger. Can we get the cans on Grave Digger? Grave Digger.

Grave Digger, what are we doing here on Twitter? Yes. I understand you're very passionate about the Titans and you have your podcast, which everyone should check out, the Titans film room and you did stellar work handling the remote

end of the throwback podcast this week where we broke down the foo fighters and the Taylor Hawkins era everybody check that out if you're a fan oh thank you

of the foos but you coming hard after Peter Schrager a colleague what are we doing here P. Shraig's first mock draft is out and this is Justin's move

for a colleague I know he works on the other side of the country Quote, retweet. I know Schrager is plugged in, but he's obviously not too plugged in on the Titans. Whoa. Sniper fire. That's aggressive.

Bam. Why? Why a colleague taking sniper shots from the observatory? Since mock drafts have started, people have been mock drafting Nikobe Dean from Georgia, the linebacker, winner of the Budkiss Award last year, best linebacker in the country, to the Titans at Pick 26. It just makes no sense. The Titans have two starting linebackers, Zach Cunningham and David Longer. They drafted a linebacker out of Georgia, actually.

In the third round last year, there's just no way that they're spending a first round pick on a linebacker. And I know Peter Schrager bases his mock drafts on what he's hearing and who he's talking to around the league. He drops on the reg, and we love him for it. But I just feel like, number one, there's been a lot of reports since John Robinson took over as Titans' GM that the Titans do not talk to anyone and no information leaks. So that being a fact factor.

And also just the fact that. Like, they're not, I'm telling everyone who will listen, the Titans are not drafting a linebacker in the first round. All right. But Grave-Digger, one question. I mean, we are, you know, a couple years removed from a slight controversy with Peter Schrager that involved myself, and basically him, because he said he respected Greg the most over, over. Or was that he didn't know your name? Oh, no, that was Kyle Brand. No, well, that was, yeah.

Well, it's, you know, it's one thing or the next. But, like, Dan, Greg, all the guys. I fixed that up by telling him at the combine as we were, you know, separated by an elevator door. Love you, bro. Do you, are you now going to need to patch fences? Is that actually what it's called? Men fences with your colleague. This was, what were you doing?

Were you on psilocybin when you tweeted this? This is a bad strategy. I didn't mean this as a shot at Peter at all. And I know that he is legitimately plugged in all around the league. I just don't think he's got a good Titan source because I don't think this. will happen. And I think this is like, people look at the draft class and they're like, this guy's a first round linebacker, so now we got to just match him to a team.

Okay. It's just, you know, with a colleague, maybe there's a better way to put it in the future. Thank you for the-grave-digger sort of doesn't care about the environment around him. He just sort of goes after what he wants. Isn't it interesting to see the grave-digger dig his own grave? What? He should be good at that. Moving on.

Trope alert. Troop alert. Troopalette. Hmm. Troopalette. Perhaps the Jets were rebuffed for D.K. Metcalf at this time. Perhaps A.J. Brown ain't going nowhere. And perhaps that's why Debo Samuel sees the landscape and teams willing to

potentially move mountains to get a number one ride receiver and says, it's time to, yes, unfollow the 49ers in all formats on social media. He has removed any mention of the Niners from his socials. and I suppose Twitter, certainly Instagram, a nice old social scrub. We've been on top of this for years now, Mark, that this is one of the great tropes. But I guess it works.

Otherwise players would have stopped doing it by now. Yeah, it's, I find it increasingly annoying and not trying to be grumpy about it, but it's kind of just like, all right, we get it. You're disgruntled. You're annoyed. You want more money. But it does all, if you're Debo Samuel,

and if you were ever to take Debo Samuel off the night, Niners, and then you're going to turn around and say, hey, Tray Lance, have a nice time starting. That is a disaster. At this stage in the Kyle Shanahan journey, you can't do that. He's in the last year of his contract. Here's the problem right now. The Niners, I know that cap space means nothing, but they had the least, according to over the cap room in the NFL.

And this whole Jimmy G thing becomes a little bit more pivotal because he has a $26 million cap hit. If you cut them, it's not one of those things where you take on $4 billion worth of dead money. they would open up $25 million. So it may be past, you have to look at that situation. If Debo needs to get paid now,

they're going to have to make a few moves to make it happen. Interesting. But still, like, you know, I don't know. The reason it works, I guess, is because now we're talking about it. ESPN's talking about, Skip Bayliss is talking about it and all that. But, you know, I can't imagine the Niners.

After what he's meant to that team, not doing moving heaven and earth themselves, to make sure they keep him happy. Maybe he says, look at how valuable I am. It's time for a race. Like, Kyler Murray's was a botch job. He flew a little too close to the sun, and we were kind of giggling at him

because it just sort of, it fizzled out. They needed a reverse and add all the pictures. Like, Debo is a whole different situation. He is the son. He did a reverse ad? Didn't Kyler put a bunch of stuff back in there? Am I wrong about that? He did, yeah, he did.

What are we doing? You either go in or go out. He came out of it looking utterly absurd. But just keep an eye on the situation. It's probably not anything, but we must report on it. It is a trope alert, but we are a football podcast reporting on the news. Finally. Two things.

Whitney Merciless is retired after 10 seasons, former Texans standout edge rusher. And the Honey Badger Market heating up, okay, he visited with the Saints. You had a scheduled visit with the Eagles today, I believe, which makes a lot of sense for them. And I bring that up, both because he's one of the most prominent free agents left on the market. And also because the graybeards have been unveiled on NFL.com. We're going to talk about it with Greg E and Evan Silva on Tuesday's episode. Honey Badger, don't come to me and say he has to come off my list. if he gets signed today, tomorrow, over the weekend

because once you're a gray beard, you're a gray beard forever. But keep an eye on the Honey Badger Market. Tyron Matthew is too good a player to be sitting on the market much longer. Yeah, it could be, you know, I think he's waiting for the fit. He's someone that would care about the fit and the team he goes to and certainly the money too. I mean, he's been openly tweeting about this for a long time.

I'm going to be away, but I'm going to have to listen to this Evan Silva appearance. I don't imagine that you will. I mean, I mean, not during my time away at some other time, you know, when the days become packed and slightly annoying again. All right. Good. That's what's happening in the news. Let's take a break. And then we're going to get Catherine Terrell to talk St. Strama.

I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael F.Oreau. And together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast. your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters.

Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies. roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you.

Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Matt Jones. Now I'm Drew Franklin, and this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.

What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Welcome back to around the NFL.

Now we're very happy to be joined by great reporter for the athletic, covers all things saints. And we have so many questions after the big draft pick trade that went down, her name? Catherine Terrell, don't ever call her Cat Terrell. Welcome to the Round the NFL.

Mike's up, Captain. Happy to be on. How are y'all? Doing good, thanks. Did a deep YouTube search there. We wanted to make sure we had the pronunciation right. And now explaining it to you, it's like, why didn't I just ask you? But we did the research to make sure we had the pronunciation correct.

I appreciate that, actually. So here it is some good research. Thank you, Kathleen. So here we are, the Eagles sent picks 16 and 19 overall, N-194, six-rounder to the Saints in exchange for the 18th pick, the 101 pick, that's the third round, 237 and the 7th, a 2023 first round pick and a 24th, second round pick. So a really interesting trade, a lot of speculation. I'm curious, Catherine, is somebody close to the Saints?

When you see it go down and you kind of digest it, what did you take out of? What did it mean for the Saints? Well, I know everyone automatically wants to jump to quarterback, and I think it's a logical assumption. but I don't necessarily think that's what the Saints are aiming for here. They're still kind of far back to be certain they're going to get a quarterback. So if that's her intention, they would have to make more moves. But either the Saints have said that they are going to curb their massive salary cap spending

and try to scale back. Now, I don't know if I believe them, but this would be a way to do it because then you get two rookie presumably starters that would be under cheaper contracts than you would if you had to get free agents. So I don't know exactly what it means, but I assume it's something on the offensive side of the ball, the Saints are cooking up. Yeah, it's like there's a need for wide receiver, offensive tackle.

And I do think the quarterback position is something that maybe, I don't know if the Saints are in love with a specific one, but if the right guy falls to them, you think they might pull the lever, get a quarterback, and then have to tell James Winston and Andy Dalton, we've got someone else to compete with you. well they already had to have some tough conversations with james winston when they went after to sean watson and it definitely sounded like that made for an awkward few days so i guess they'd just

be doing it all over again but you know absolutely if the right quarterback is there i think they'll go after them and if the right quarterback is within range i think they'd make the moves to get them i think the worst thing they could do would be to make all these moves just to get a quarterback and reach for one, it's not at the top of their board. If it's just a guy that plays the position and they're trying to fill that need. What's interesting, though, is that they gave a first round pick next year. So, James is only under contract for two years. So it kind of makes you wonder what's the long-term plan here if you don't believe in Winston enough to give him a long-term deal. And now you don't have a first-round pick next year. So

presumably you can't get a quarterback in that class. It's actually really interesting. But the Saints always like to start things up around this time, right? Yeah, no, it totally makes sense. And it's just like, listen, you've been following this team for a while. You know the path they've taken. It's always push everything back, push everything back and load up. You had the Drew Breezer and that all made sense. Some of the immediate speculation around this deal was, well, this is a win now move right now for the Saints.

But when you look at the roster where it is, do you see it that way? I'm not saying the Saints see them as that way, but that's been one of the ways people have read into this trade by giving away next year's first round pick. They think if we get hit on this draft, a la 2017, maybe magic can happen quickly. Do you see it that way? Well, there's a couple of things.

First of all, as you pointed out, I think the Saints see it that way. Absolutely. Do I see it that way? I mean, I do see a team that really should have made the playoffs last year. They had absolutely everything go wrong. And still, if they hadn't had that game, where half the team was out with COVID,

then maybe things would have been different. And they had a lot of injuries. And I think you could say, hey, that team has almost made the playoffs. If they're healthy this year, why can't they contend? On the other hand, I think that this is a team

that's not as good as last year because they're already missing some guys that were key parts of that team. Toronto Armstead is one. Malcolm Jenkins is another. But, you know, maybe it's all wash if you get Michael Thomas back. And, you know, this kind of sounds silly,

but get their kicker back. And that was a huge part of last year of them losing some games. So, yeah, I think I kind of see this team very similar to last team, a middle of the road team that maybe could make the playoffs. And the Saints probably see it as a team where, hey, if we get healthy, we should be able to make a run. With the way that the team is structured right now, is this a Mickey Loomis move alone?

Or does Dennis Allen have a lot of say here? Obviously, Sean Payton had immense say. Is it a different situation that Dennis Allen now sits in the chair? That's a great question because we all know Sean Payton called a lot of the shots since he'd been there so long. I think it's probably made in tandem. I don't think Mickey would make any move without Dennis Allen. I think Dennis Allen was fully on board with going after Deshaun Watson. But it's probably more the front office than Dennis Allen, I would think.

I think that they're always kind of looking to see like where we can improve our roster. But, you know, just how much control Dennis Allen had is something that we're not going to see for a while. I think I think it's going to take a year or two before we see if it's anything like the type of control that Sean Payton had. You should know, Catherine, by the way, that the that's a great question affects no one else in a more positive way than my partner, Mark Sessley here. So you just made the man stay. You should know that, Kathy. I appreciate that. Thank you.

I got to hand out the compliment. Speaking of Sean Payton, people who aren't as close to the team, like us bozos, we think about like, hmm, is he really all the way out, especially if they would have landed to Sean Watson, would he have found his way back in that building? Do you get the vibe that the door is closed, that chapter has ended, or is Peyton and the Saints still a marriage that could ever come back? Well, actually, you saying that makes me remember a point I was going to make a few minutes ago and forgot that the Saints

might be making this move banking on the fact that some other team next year is going to trade for Sean Payton and give them a draft tag back. Boom. Now, what team would it be? I don't know if it's a team within the division.

The price tag is going to come a lot higher. I do think for right now the door is closed on Sean Payton just because it has to be. You can't give someone else a job and give it with the, I guess, the other coach is going to be hanging around.

No, I don't think that means there's any sort of fractured relationship, but, you know, you can't have Sean Payton hanging out in the closet just waiting for so you mean like, so like with Jay Leno and Conan O'Brien, they shouldn't follow NBC's lead. Does that work so well? That worked out really well for everyone. Everyone ended up really happy with that. I would ask. No, for now, it's D.A.'s team now.

I would ask this, like, Dennis Allen, when he was in Oakland, and I get the coaches learned from those first failed coaching experiences. There were a lot of whispers that he was not very well liked by players necessarily that the way, you know, he's a different experience than Sean Payton. Do you get the sense that the Saints locker room adores Dennis Allen? Or is it somewhere in a bit of a darker place, potentially? Darker. I think that the defensive side of the ball really likes them.

I think with the offensive side of the ball, I think there's a lot of work. to be done. And I only get that sense because, for example, Dennis Allen flew out to meet with Michael Thomas in California. And he tried to say, when he was speaking at the owner's meetings, oh, you know, I'm trying to get to know all the players. And Michael Thomas has kind of been on the periphery because he's been injured. So I, of course, said, okay, did you go fly out with any other players and did you go meet them? And he said, no. So, you know, that's one relationship he's going to have to work on because he didn't really need to work on it before. Winston when all that happened, he's got to work on that relationship.

So I think defensively, I think those players really like and trust them, just, you know, based on everything they were saying leading up to the last few months of the season when he took over temporarily when Peyton had COVID and there was a lot of rumors he was going to get a head coaching job. Offensively, I think that's a big question. And he's going to have to answer that. And he has, I think, a lot of other questions to answer to kind of prove that he's learned and moved on from what happened in Oakland. Moving back to the quarterback position and, well, maybe someone who's moved out of the quarterback position, Taysam Hill, who's had a really interesting, unique NFL journey over

the last few years. I get what's happening here because I know it wasn't a full audition, but we saw maybe enough of Taysam Hill last year to say, okay, this is not exactly a guy going forward. But then we learned he's being moved out of the quarterback room entirely. He's a tight end now. Does that mean he's not going to be there, Jack of? all trades. Is it just now a philosophy change with a new head coach in the building? Is Taysom Hill done taking snaps, period?

Well, Dennis Allen wouldn't confirm that he's out of the quarterback room, but I think for all intents of purposes, he probably is. But it might be a role like 2019. I think that worked pretty well for them. He would be the third guy. He would be the guy that, you know, comes in to be the change of pace guy, um, while still, you know, know, catching passes and things like that. I think that's a better role for him than a direct backup. And Alan was saying the same thing. He said, I don't want Tase him on the sideline next to me.

And honestly, I think by this point, we have seen enough of Tasem Hill at quarterback to make that decision. I honestly kind of think we saw it a while ago. I think he can just be utilized better in a different role than, I guess, sitting behind Winston, you know, hoping he's going to get. third shot to prove himself. Back to the draft for a minute. Our guy, Daniel Jeremiah, mentioned Desmond Ritter, talking to people around the league.

As someone, the Saints might have interest in, have you heard whispers at all about what rookie quarterback they might be into. I get that, you know, where they sit, they can't necessarily have their number one pick and maybe they would be open to taking their second favorite guy. I'm not sure about that, but if any names bubbled up. Honestly, with the quarterback, I think that the Saints have. kind of been pretty quiet about that, you know, they haven't really shown their hand on that regard, which is why it's so interesting that they have made this trade so far before

the draft. It's gotten so many people talking as to what the Saints are going to do with it and why do it now versus, you know, do it closer to draft day or on draft day. So I think that, you know, if they do love a quarterback, we don't know yet. I feel like with Peyton, sometimes you kind of knew beloved a quarterback. I think people knew about Garrett Grayson before they took him. It's hard to remember. And obviously that did not

work out. But it's going to be interesting if they take a quarterback. I'm here for it. I'm here for it. Let's do more quarterback roulette after they started four different guys last year. Right. Our colleague who's on vacation this week, Greg

Rosenthal, has a theory. Keep on taking quarterbacks until you hit on the one like did with Drew Brees, although they didn't, they traded for Drew Brees, but you get that point. Finally, a tweet, Catherine, Terrell, not Terrell, from you, 26 minutes ago, drove from Baton Rouge to New Orleans today and my dog threw up three minutes away from getting to my house. Hope everyone's day is going better than mine. I hope we improved your day a little bit, although probably not, but also that sucks. And I'm sorry to hear that happened to you, the worst.

I just thought everyone needs to know what was happening as I was driving from Baton Rouge and I think the dog at least felt bad about it I don't know if dogs feel bad about these things she seemed like she felt bad about it as I was like waving my hands infrantically telling her to wait I just hope everyone pictures that

I do have a question does dog throw up have a similar smell to human throw up Have you never been around a dog before much not to the degree where they're throwing up Do we need to ask? You've never cleaned this up before. Yeah. It did not, it did not have a smell.

Okay. Well, that's a nice quality. I don't know. I mean, normally it does. I hope that you never learn whether it has a smell or not. I hope you never have to. That's how we get the poll. You can do that for me.

Thank you. Yeah. Well, you live by Carosite for Ruby. Yes. She's been racked with guilt since you began this interview with us. So just go over to pat her in the head to say, good girl. Good girl. You'll be okay.

She's been quiet this whole interview. So, I mean, maybe she does feel bad. All right, Catherine, thank you so much for joining us. I hope you get a quarterback in the mix to make things even more exciting, but that's a fun beat to be on it and you do a great job on it. Thanks a lot. You know, I'm all for chaos. So, you know, the saints want to bring that.

Let's see it in the next few weeks. There you go. Thank you. All right. Catherine Terrell from The Athletic. Thank you very much. All right, there she goes. Catherine Terrell of the Athletic.

Hope everything's okay with the dog. And I, it's interesting, the saints are in, I don't want to say perilous, but these are uncertain times. And it just goes to show you, and now the Pittsburgh Steelers are going through the same thing, post-Ben Ralthosberger, that when you do have that legendary quarterback forever, it leads to a period of uncertainty until you find that next guy. And I don't know if this trade is going to lead to them trying to identify that guy now or if they still believe that Winston can be that guy. but it's interesting watching these teams try to figure it out. Now, with the Patriots, there are another example, and perhaps the most prominent example of being in that spot when Tom Brady leaves,

they might have hit on Mac Jones and have a guy they can trust now for the foreseeable future. That's what the Saints are trying to do. I just, I tend to think that quarterback has to be high in the radar, but you could see a combination of like offensive tackle and wide receiver if the wrong guy came to him. I just, I know for Saints fans, like they've been super frustrated with the inactivity of the team and at least showed that they they're not in a coma the front office

and it's it's tough it's tough to figure out their situation here with that because they were so close it seems under sean watson which and we've talked about how you know naughty that issue is with the browns um but if they get to sean watson and once you figure out the suspension situation that's sure to come you have your guy for the foreseeable future that doesn't happen you just now realize, okay, we have James Winston who we're maybe in on, maybe out on, we have a draft class this year. We have two first round picks, but no clear

quarterback to most people. Maybe the Saints love a guy. And then now you don't have that first round pick next year, as Catherine mentioned, you've kind of boxed yourself in a little bit here and need to hit on something and maybe get a little bit lucky. So it'll be interesting to see what happens with the Saints coming up.

All right. Now, I'm sure everyone, before we sign off, before Mark, you head into your well-earned vacation. Well, we have a TV show tomorrow, so unless you're telling me, I don't need to show up for that. It's just you and me. It would be just you alone. I forgot about the TV show, but you should not, listen or check it out, the Around the NFL broadcast on NFL Network every Friday, 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific. I think that's right.

A lot of people, Mark, are saying, okay, so you were asked, boys, to speak to players who may be interested in starting a podcast, how to become successful in the podcast game. And I would say we are successful. We've done it. But we've also never thought about it before. So you and I went and we had a couple of pints on Sunday. Well, you had some Chardonnay because you're classy. Well, it's just like the beer sometimes feels like I'm eating like a loaf of bread. And you don't like food.

Sometimes it doesn't feel like a loaf of bread. And that's when I enjoy it. So I thought it would be maybe nice to share with everyone, including our enemies, our strategy for success. That's how confident we are. So we're going to use this, sign off, to share with you the listener and anyone else, including our enemies, our keys to success that we shared with the players. Is this a good idea? No, it's going to level the playing field. And that's, I don't like that.

But, Erica, is this a good idea? I like it. I think it shows our BDE. You know what I mean? Oh, okay. You can use it for the, for the broadcast. Oh, honey. I don't need it.

All right. All right. Hit it, Ricky. Number one, it's a four pill. pillar to, to, to, to build the house. That is a successful podcast. There are four pillars. Number one, chemistry.

And we're not even going to elaborate. No, that's, they figure that themselves. They have to do that right. Kiss, kiss, kiss. Number one, chemistry is everything. Number two, consistency and patience. figure the rest of that shit out yourself

number three D-Y-H should we even tell them that I think so do your homework baby and finally number four

be yourself I would add a caveat to that for plenty of these failing podcasts being themselves has not worked apparently be someone else Be us. Try to be us. I mean, I feel like we've helped people today. I think so.

Now we just get pulled down into the sea of all the other shows. And don't let Erica's bravado throw you off. I did, at the corner of my eye, saw her furiously scribbling on a notepad just now. Yeah. Yeah, I really wrote down, be yourself. All right, well, I'll tell you something. The players were, they were electrified and in transport.

by our words. I'm tearing up. That was beautiful. Thank you to listening to the show. Thank you to Catherine Terrell of the Athletic. Thank you to Ricky, Randy Chavez, the Gravedigger. And you, the listener, who've been with us since Richard Sherman, and we thank you. Cannot thank you enough.

Number five, get a buttload of super loyal, awesome listeners. That's it. Till Tuesday, heed the call. I'm going to be able to be. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies.

Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the iHeart radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision-makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the

Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.