NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Does this matter? With Patrick Claybon

Episode Date: June 16, 2021

A room filled with some heroes – Gregg Rosenthal and Marc Sessler are joined by Patrick Claybon to bring you the latest news in the NFL and determine what actually matters. Robby Anderson thinks Sam Darnold has a new “glow” (3:33), Xavien Howard is holding out in Miami (5:43), and Tua Tagovailoa threw five interceptions in one minicamp practice (11:37). In other news, Danielle Hunter has worked out his contract with the Vikings, who are also bringing back Sheldon Richardson (17:35), Matt Nagy will not start Justin Fields Week 1 (21:54), Derek Carr has threatened to retire (30:05), and Jamal Adams is absent from minicamp in Seattle (35:50). Stick around as we wrap up the show with summer book recommendations (39:08).Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Around the NFL podcast, the big bad blocker boys. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. Today I'm going to be your host, Greg Rosenthal, Dan hands this out for the show alongside Mark Sessler in Patrick Claibon. time since I did this little introduction. I'm not really totally sure I remember the words. That last part is the most important part of you questioning yourself. But you nailed it, as always, Greg. Yeah, you know, Greg, I think there was one show that you were hosting where you called me Matt. So I think you're off to already a better start than that episode was. You know, it's got to be

a loose show. Dan Redden's a tight ship. He's, you know, he's the host with the most. And we're just going to talk about stories from this week it's you know we're we're all getting ready for a little summer break a little bit shows are going to be a little less often after this the NFL teams are about to go on summer vacation um it's got that last day of school type feel vibe this week except for for Claibon who's wearing a tie right now and I think is working very hard throughout the summer so I'm sorry for the previous 30 seconds Claibon it's okay I recognize You know, I am not the protagonist of reality. And other people's circumstances are different than mine.

And I appreciate it. I'm glad you guys get a little bit of a break. Like, I'm not vindictive about it, you know? Well, I mean, there would have been, we were, and personally, we were heading close towards, like, rebellion territory if we didn't get, like, a little bit of time here. Although we have two shows coming up next week to set out the schedule early. We're back next Tuesday and Thursday, I believe.

So we'll have a little bit of a break, a six-day break. We still got two shows this week, two shows the next week, and then I think we go once a week and we go dark for a little while. And, you know, it stuck in my head when we were in person, Sessler, that Dan said, like, the juice cleanse Sessler is not his favorite Sessler. But at least, you know, which I think it was a little harsh, but at least like on screen, the juice cleanse Sessler might be my favorite Sessler. Sessler looks primed.

He looks jacked. The color is good, the shirt's unbuttoned, you know, you look prime Sessler right now. So it might be my favorite, Sessler. I like where you're going with this. I will say that there's been a huge shift in this house. I don't know if it's the same in your houses, but, you know, the L.A. weather, L.A. regional weather has hiked up a bit. And it's boring to talk about weather. But I will just say that one of the reasons I think I have a bit of a rosier glow is that it's like I'm sweating.

It's hotter than a like a cannonball shot into my face right now. so yeah you know great great weather or historic drought that's going to cause wildfire and untold damage to our state you who can say but it is it is nice much as ravi anderson said about sam darnald this week that there's an aura a glow i see it on mark i see the energy ready to explode from him uh in a positive way not like ah mark's going to you know sabotage a shipping lane i i see it is a good thing like mark's going to hug some people and it's good. So this is more legit potentially than the darn old glow comments, which I found, you know, a variable word. Samon's got to like it too. I think Simone's got to like

this good looking Sessler. Not that he is an obvious. High apathy. I would categorize it as high apathy. Clay, that's a perfect transition because today's show, again, we're going to talk about some stories this week. They would normally be the news items, but instead we're just going to make that the segment. We're going to throw out some things that happened this week. And we're going to just declare as a group, I guess, whether we care or not. Do we care or not? Does it matter or not? And we'll move on. And why not? Like, that's a fine place to start. It wasn't planning on talking it. But do you think Sam Darnold's Rosie Glow? Do we care about that, Patrick Claibon, you know, that Robbie Anderson says he's got an aura. He's got a different vibe about him.

I care enough to make jokes about it because I think it's funny because it goes to so much of the way I think about sports and the way that we turn it into like a cartoon is. to say like, oh, this person is summoning the strength of Thor, right? He's going to wield the hammer. Yeah, I'm glad Sam is happy. I'm glad the vibes are good now. I don't know if that makes him a better football player, but yeah, I guess in the grand scheme of things, no.

If we're saying, does it matter his disposition? No. What matters is he a better football player? Yeah, I mean, it's like Robbie Anderson and Sam Darnold, they've seen some things, having been part of that Jets wreckage. I mean, I do think there's probably something to the fact that they're simply happier. I give Robbie Anderson a little bit of credit for, you know, we're killing these players, understandably, for the endless tropes.

This was a little bit, this wasn't a weather-worn trope the same way that you normally hear about quarterbacks. I mean, we're talking oras, we're talking glows. This is also a player that did not know the Panthers' mascots. So I'm not sure how deep he dug to create this narrative, but I'd enjoy it to some degree. Yeah, I like it. I mean, when you, yeah, when you can go from Gase to Joe, Brady and Matt Ruhle, who I think are going to help Sam Darnold out. Not sure about that offensive line in Carolina.

PFF did like an offensive line rankings going into the season. Steve Palazalo, I never know how to say his last day. And they had him 30th. And you look at it and it's not great. I wasn't planning on doing Darnold, but that seemed like a fun place to start. We are going to give some book recommendations, by the way, at the end of the show. You know, Mark suggested that. I like that.

It's summer reading time. And so that's how we're going to close the show. but let's go to a bigger item of news this week, which is all these mandatory minicamp holdouts, which is the only time you can use the word holdout until training camp because they are required to be there, and they can be fined if they are not there. And Zavian Howard, the Dolphins cornerback,

was a surprise absence this week. He wants a new contract. That's what Brian Flores, the Dolphins head coach, alluded to. And he called it a, quote, unique situation when it came to Howard. Do we care about this one, Mark? I mean, I think it's something to monitor. It doesn't sound like it's like super cantankerous based on what Flores said, and he was kind of veiled in his comments. But this is a player that just signed a new deal, a massive extension in 2019 and now wants more money. It kind of

reminds me of when we talked about Stefan Gilmore on Monday was that. I don't know what at Monday, like that, you know, when he signed his deal, the deal looked great. But then even a couple years later, you're fall down on that list of who's getting paid at cornerback. And he's behind his teammate, Byron Jones, which I think maybe could be a little bit, a little bit of just, I want to be heard. I want to have some money moved around. I don't want to be locked into this from now until the end of time. That's, you know, and so we monitor it, and I leave it there. I think, I think it matters in the sense of what Xavier and Howard's goals are long term, because I think if the discrepancy is between the $12 million for him this year and the $14 million for

Byron Jones, then I wouldn't really be sure what he's doing. If I'm not mistaken, he's the second highest paid player on the whole team. So I don't necessarily think this is as much about 2021. I think the team's potential outcomes in 2022. And he's had a few good years in Miami. So I can see from his point of view the desire for a long term kind of answer to what his career is going to be like because it'd be around a $3 million cap hit if they let him go next year depending on the timing. I'm looking at the dropped battery charges, right? You know,

there was a domestic battery arrest and they were then dropped. I'm not sure if they're a concern for Miami, right, as much as they should concern anybody, right, when somebody's accused of domestic battery. But I think the dolphins might see that as a justification for paying him less because if they were truly concerned, then he wouldn't be on the team, right? So I think Right, that's a fair point. The dolphins would like to pay him less as much as, you know, any, any employer would probably like to pay a productive employee less. And so they see, you know, the way that that's playing out. But I really think it's just him looking for some sort of long-term answer.

But he got a long-term answer. He signed through 2024. I think it does matter. They can dump him next year, though, right? But they never would because he's a defensive player of the year candidate last year who is, you know, relatively affordable for. a cornerback. He signed like a five-year, $75 million contract at a time when I think there were probably differing opinions on Zavian Howard. Like he's up and down. And like at the time, people were like, wow, that's a really good deal for Howard. That's them believing in their young

player. And on the field last year, he backed it up with a first team all pro season. I think it's really unique. It matters in the sense of like any, how much can any story for the NFL matter in June? Because I think it's tricky. I don't see how you give Zavian. Howard more money, not just because it's a precedent with so many years left on his contract, but he signed it two years ago. He signed for three or four more years. Since he signed the contract, he had that domestic violence arrest. I mean, he was in jail. Like, that's significant. How can that not, I've seen a handful of analyses on this situation that don't even mention that. Like, of course that should factor into whether you should sign a guy to a long-term contract,

And then in the two years since, the other year, he missed 11 games or seven game, nine games. Whatever was, he missed more than half the season with a knee injury in 2019. So since he signed that contract, they got one incredible year, one where he was hurt and you had this off-field issue. But I think the main thing is we see this again and again, and we're seeing it with Chandler Jones in Arizona. Guys hate it when you sign a new player at your position to more money. And so he's just pissed that he knows he's better than Byron Jones, or at least he was in

2020. And Byron Jones is right next. to him and he's making more money. We see this at our workplace sometimes. I'm not going to name names. It's at any workplace. I'm not going to name names. If we knew how much everybody was making,

I guess we'd see it more. Sometimes it pops up and you have an idea, though, and some people are not happy. I mean, I'm saying in front of the camera, behind the camera, I think this is a universal thing. I'm not, I once had a terrible, it was a job where you basically wrote like proposals to get business.

This was a sort of a startup company up in Malibu. Long story short, family owned about 20 employees, but some dunderheaded idiot, and it wasn't me, sent out mistakenly the pay, the salary of every single person inside the building. And like, you know, a cornerback room, there were seven or eight people that were kind of grinders that would all be looked at in the same role and they all were equally valuable. But one of them was getting paid like twice as much as anyone else. And one guy who probably just wasn't good at fighting for himself was getting paid like someone that had been hired from a temp agency.

So it caused immediate headaches and volcanoes. It was fascinating to watch. Shout out to that guy. Shout out to Comrade Dunderhead. I feel you, dog. I know. Like normal. I'm all for normalizing salary and financial talk and money talk like in general.

People get too up, you know, people act like it's the most private thing in the world. Let's normalize this. It's just money. Well, we shouldn't be all in our feeling. about it. Let's stay in Miami though for the next story and and talk toa Tunga Vailoa. I feel like this happens with one quarterback every year. Jimmy Garapolo was the guy a couple years ago. I remember he threw like six interceptions in one practice. This time it was Tua throwing five in a monsoon. This is a trope alert.

Trope alert. Do we care about Tua Tuna Vyloa throwing five interceptions in June, Patrick? No. No, like, are we extrapolating his long-term career viability based on a June practice? People are panicking. People were just like, I don't know. I think people are looking for reasons not to like Tua right now or to like Tua and like defend that it doesn't mean anything. People get in their little corners, including me. Whatever confirms your priors, right? That's how we handle June in NFL training camp news, right? I don't particularly think it matters. Like Brian Flores, I don't think this was an excuse what he said. practice is a time to practice to see what works and what doesn't work.

And if, you know, you're picked off five times, yeah, congrats, maybe Zavian Howard and Byron Jones, maybe everything's working back there. Maybe we take the positive news from that. But I don't see it as some sort of strike against Tua that he's throwing picks against his, what was a good defense last year in practice. I mean, also it happened in like a driving rainstorm. There were like two inches of rain were dumped. on that part of Florida yesterday.

And, you know, this is coming with just what the beat reporter said and sort of a chill out, please chill out everyone, that they were like intentionally unfurling, like, passes deep down the field into tight windows to kind of just, you know, show aggression. The other thing I'd say is George Godsey and Eric Studsville, who, you know, because their co-o-sies get a little bit heat on this show, and I think it is a TBD scenario, but Miles Gaskin said it is a new playbook. It's a totally new playbook. This isn't to a, you know, gaining more comfort from the playbook from last year.

It's sort of the opposite of that. And I think that's flown under the radar just a little bit. I have a no problem with these quarterbacks going out and having like one day like that where a certain statistical category gets jacked up. I mean, we complain all the time about beat writers giving us too many detailed stats from a padless or, you know, super basic practice. Well, then we can't, you know, be jumping out of windows when this occurs. yeah i used to write uh these articles during ota mini camp season and it was like a huge paragraph

on each team like which players were rising and falling this was especially did this at rhodor when i was doing more fantasy but i did it here too and i and i see it happening quite a bit still especially in fantasy and and i i don't know if i'm right or i'm just like lazy but i have come to the conclusion there is there is literally nothing you can draw from on-field play in OTAs and mini-camps. Nothing other than injuries, like nothing in terms of performance and evaluation and competition. And Belichick and Flores talk about this pretty often, that this is teaching time. This is teaching and installing and competition starts the first day of training camp.

That's when competition starts. Right. And coaches will also say that the ones, like the groups you can't even judge at this time of year are offensive lines and mostly defensive lines. So it's like we're talking about a quarterback throwing interceptions when like the reason he's going to be held up right is hard to determine in in early June. So I totally sail it down the river. I would just if you're going to report the interceptions, right? Just give us some context, right?

For each, like maybe a graph on each pass. Like what was the average depth of target? What was the circumstance with regards to the pressure of wind rate? I don't know. If we're going to draw stuff from it, then you just need to give us everything. it does it does get to what to a struggle then which was you know deep throws and that they're going to have to improve on that and i think mark your point is really good about that it's a new offense it is a little bit of a concern like if you're a third year player on the dolphins this is

your third offense or if you're evante parker um it's about your seventh offense and it's and it's your third in three years and you're i projected four either rookie or second year starters on the offensive line. So it's a young team. The dolphins have this way of, I think, under Flores, looking like a hot mess in the offseason. And I thought was one of the worst rosters in the league

going into each of the last two seasons. And then they're way better than the sum of their parts. So I'm giving a little bit of credit to the process that they'll make it look better, Flores and Greer than it seems to look on paper. But there's a lot. They're a tricky team to evaluate. With, again, as Mark pointed out,

two offensive coordinators, right? So maybe it's two offenses just in this year, right? Because we don't know who's calling the plays. It's like some kind of imagine it's really one of the two that's leading the way, but I don't know who that. No, but if that weren't the case, or like you just, it's like the way that their personalities mingle matters.

I mean, one of them is sort of like likes to quietly take credit for everything. It's like the guy that wants to be in Tua's ear on the sideline with the other guy's probably doing way more work. It's not Studsville, who's been around for 20 years and is below. love it as he's usually a running backs coach and like is known you know I don't know what happened here but this is one of those things that Flores took from Belichick that he that's like don't take

that from Belichick like Flores has it in his mind that he wasn't even defensive coordinator when he was the defensive coordinator I don't think anyone remembers that like when he was calling those plays in the Super Bowl he was he didn't even have the title they didn't have one then the Patriots also went co-coordinators at one point and then they went to no coordinators in variety of years. So it's a silly thing to take from Belichick, but I don't think it's that huge of a deal. Let's go to Minnesota where I'm going to just tip my hand here. I think this was probably the biggest story of the week, which tells you it wasn't like a massive week. But Danelle Hunter signed a new deal with the Vikings right after we taped on Monday. And then right on the back

of that, Sheldon Richardson returned to Minnesota where he was in 2018, I believe, for one year and played pretty well there. So the combination of those two stories to me, I think are significant because this contract thing happened with Hunter even before he was out for last season. So it had been kind of sitting there for a while. And so they moved up some guaranteed money. And more importantly to him, they'll make him a free agent after this season or they'll pay him $20 million in 2022. So either way, he'll either have his freedom or he'll have his money. And between those two guys, it helps what to me was the biggest weakness on the Vikings defense, which was their defensive line. They might play a little more 3-4. They get Michael Pierce back from opting out. They signed

Dalvin Tomlinson. They added a lot of people in the secondary, including Bashad Breeland recently. That one slipped under the radar. They've got Patrick Peterson. They got Xavier. I kind of suddenly am thinking the Vikings defense, which was a hot mess last year and was the biggest reason why they didn't make the playoffs, it was not the offense, should go back to what they normally were, which is very good under Mike Zimmer, like a top 10 defense. And if they were a top 10 defense, and suddenly you're like, okay, maybe the Vikings are back in the playoffs. Do you agree, Claibon? I do. And I think in the way that it happened, right, the rapidity in which it's like, oh, yeah, this is, oh, okay, they've got Richardson, the Danielle Hunter's back. It shows a clarity of

purpose. There's no, you know, wishy, washy, well, we'll wait and see. Like, this is what the brass wants. This is what Zimmer wants. And, and he, and he, he's going to get it. So I think, right, you can see that there is this cohesion among the coaching staff and the front office with regards to 2021. Like we, you know, who knows what the future holds, but this is what we're doing. And I like that. I can't see a negative to that. Yeah, I mean, Rick Spielman, the GM does not turn out a lot of like low level rosters. If anything he's been, if not like a superstar, he's been extremely consistent. And they just, they had PFF's worst, past rushing group a year ago. And it showed. They just still have the bodies. And so, you know,

I think, like, Daniel Hunter, if he is able to become what he was before, is one of the best in the league. You got Stephen Weatherly. Sheldon Richardson, I thought, played pretty well for the Browns and was a bit of a surprise departure. I know that they're trying to change their scheme up just a little bit. And maybe he didn't quite fit in. But on top of just the player, that was the one move that they've pulled off where teammates were agitated because they loved Richardson. So, you know, I know he's gone. He's moved around from team to team a bunch, but he was popular there and they liked him in Minnesota too and they're bringing him back. So I don't hate that. I think the one two punch changes their defense quite a bit. Yeah, the Browns

did not help Richardson max his money this year with the timing. So he got paid. I think it's with incentives and stuff over like about four million. And he's better than plenty of defensive tackles who signed for more money. He's the perfect kind of veteran sign. He's very much an Indomacan Sioux type signing, but a few years younger, where it's like, hey, you just signed a guy who can play 700 snaps for you. You basically know exactly what you're getting, which is solid production. Like, you know, he's not going to be a superstar, but you just plug him in. And they needed that. And I was looking at this roster. They, we talked about the Vikings. I did the, uh, the Mina Kimes podcast with Lenny this week. People should check.

They drafted 11 players this year, including eight in the first four rounds. Half of those guys were on defense. I don't know these defensive guys. They were 30, fourth rounders, but it's like, I'm not going to pretend I have some hot take, but it's like if you hit on a few of these and a few of the ones on offense, and they sign guys in numbers in the secondary where they just have like six cornerbacks who have played or can play. Cam Dancer was a rookie for them.

That was pretty good. I don't know. I think they could be dangerous. especially in a division that Aaron Rogers might not be involved in. Let's stay in that division and talk Bears this week. Matt Nagy seems to be doing the rounds this year. Seems to be in a really good mood. So that's good.

I'm happy for him. You know, he seems to really go up and down with his mood. But it seems like a happy, I'm just saying as coaches go, he seems either to kind of really hate the media experience or seems like a totally cool guy. He's in totally cool guy mode. and he was talking with Chris Collinsworth this week on Collinsworth's podcast. Let's listen to that.

I do have to ask this one question. Is there a possible scenario where Justin Fields plays on opening night? No. I mean, Andy is our starter. And again, I can't predict anything. You know, that's, you know how it goes. I mean, there's so many things that could happen between today and that week one. But that's, Andy is our starter.

and Justin's our number two, and we're going to stick to this plan. Doesn't matter, Mark Sessler. You made the best facial expression of the three of us, so you get the one. Well, I mean, I guess the one thing, if you're Matt Nagy, maybe you're going back to the blueprint

the chiefs used with Patrick Mahomes, where, you know, if you take a look at Chicago's early schedule, maybe he's just sort of saying, I don't want to put all this on a rookie, because they have the Rams, then, okay, the Bengals, fine, but the Browns, Ravens, Raiders, Packers, Bucks, Niners, and Steelers before the buy. That's essentially going through a playoff field in the NFC and AFC.

That said, Matt Nagy was hired to do one thing, to manage the quarterback position, to manage how you move from player A to B from a group of nobodies to a Justin Fields, who he's gone out of his way to compliment in high order. I mean, he seems to love Justin Fields. So I don't know if this is more of a protection thing. I don't like it at all. Would you treat, is that how you're going to treat your offensive line? A rookie blows up in August and absolutely dominates. So we're not ready for him to be out on the field. It's just sort of like, it's the quarterback position. And I think actually it's the wrong way to deal with quarterbacks in 2021. But I am sitting here. It's his prerogative, but he's leaning into it hard when it felt like it was going to be the first

non-frustrating bears offseason in a while. I find it to be, it's just pressing a little too hard. Why do you have to say any of this? Because of the circumstances, right? If he's Andy Reed and he has the job security of an Andy Reid and Andy Dalton becomes Alex Smith, right, that the 20, whatever, 14, 15 version of Alex Smith, then yeah, you have the luxury of going with the starter. But the best way, the most important job for a lot of coaches and GMs is to keep their job. And the best way for Matt Nagy to keep his job and maintain his importance is to start Andy Dalton until that circumstance becomes untenable and then start Justin Fields. So I don't think it matters because we could say that with any particular rookie quarterback in any starting

scenario. The coach many times is going to do what's necessary to keep his job, especially if he's not coming in with a rookie quarterback. If you are a holdover from a quarterback who didn't succeed in your system and a new quarterback comes in by virtue of the Denver Broncos, choosing not to draft that quarterback, then you have this opportunity to protect yourself. And so I see it as whenever the circumstances change, that's when we're going to get Justin Fields, regardless of how Matt Nagy responds to the dulcet tones of Chris Collinsworth, who sounds like a pitch shifted Jack Collinsworth to me.

I'm looking at a different voice on his podcast, you're saying? It's more sultry. It's a little sexier, which I think we can all appreciate it. Hey, Matt. Now, that matters. That take matters. He once, I've probably told this story before. We've done this podcast so long, but he once pre-taped a weekly question for this digital

fantasy show I hosted in around 2007 called the Fantasy Fix. and you know but he did it all in one one take like in September and we just taped the question for the whole year but it would really crack us up because we would just watch this tape and it'd be him for three minutes going hey Tiffany and Greg like who do you things better this I can't wow it's really falling apart my call you nailed it who do you things better this week uh Frank or or Tatum Bell and then it would just like him going into the next one for three minutes straight. I really, that's my favorite Collinsworth memory. You guys

gave such great answers. Mine is short. No, I think this is all nonsense. And the only reason it caught fire as much as it did on Twitter was, and I don't want to call the person out, I don't know who, remember who it is. They paraphrased it wrong. I was

in the aggregating game a long time and they aggregated it and paraphrased it as Nagy said there is no scenario. where Dalton could be the backup week one, which Collinsworth, by the way, has self-interest. He's calling that game. He's like, please give us Justin Fields. Oh, true. And we all do because we all want to watch that game with Justin. And yes, he started

the answer by saying the word no to like a yes or no question. But then he went into a whole spiel about, well, you know how it is. I can't predict anything. Things change. In the meantime, Chris, and I can't say what they would be, but here's the plan. One of the things that can change is Justin Fields is awesome in August, and Andy Dalton is not. And it's like why these coaches have to answer these questions, but I truly think it means less than nothing. Of course it's the plan.

It's the game that you have to play publicly. I also think it's funny that in some other interviews that he's had, he also makes it very clear that Nick Foles is the number three. and has no chance to move up to number two. Which is, that's kind of funny to me, too. Like, if, like, he's doing this to, like, protect Dalton's ego and what they promised Dalton. But he has no problem saying, like, sorry, Foles, man.

I know you were a Super Bowl MVP. You've been in the league 12 years. There's actually absolutely zero chance that you could even move up to number two. I don't even know what he's doing on that. I think that it's just, like, you know, keep them safe inside, like, a carton or a crate until we trade him somewhere for, like, a late.

pick for a team that gets, you know, ravaged by quarterback injuries. I like to hear that at least he's flexible naked. I mean, if this changes, then change with it. Because you mentioned, you know, career security, Claibon. But, I mean, if fields like were blowing people away visually and played really well out of the gate, that's job security right there. I mean, you guys made the right choice for a change and you're coaching them up.

I just find it to me a little bit like, I know, so we tweeted out QB1, so we've got to stick with that now. I mean, that's, that's, it was on a social media. operative. Like, it's just, let's be flexible and real here, please. Yeah, I, uh, I don't know about, I don't know about the bears. You're right to, uh, Claybon, like the, the Broncos not taking fields. And it's funny because they were, they were far from the only team that could have

maybe used the quarterback to pass on them, you know, the Panthers, Panthers, you know, the dolphins, you know, technically could have, you know, whatever. There could have been other teams that had done it. But the Broncos are the one team because I think they have a, a Super Bowl ready roster if they had like a great quarterback where you are going to be thinking like, wow, the hype would be out of control if they had Justin Fields right now on that roster. But they don't. Yeah, it's what I'm always going to come back to because as much as we lodge Chicago for taking Justin Fields,

my thing is if you think that he's going to start for you, right, for the next 10 to 12 years, why wait till 11? Yeah. I think it might be like, let's see how that Rams defense is looking week one. If it looks like it did a year ago, maybe Dalton can be the sacrificial lamb. And we go week two, Justin Fields. He's got to look good in camp, too. Let's go to one guy who has been in the same uniform, Raiders uniform, his whole career.

You know, they changed it up when they moved to Vegas a bit. And he says he doesn't ever want to play in a different uniform. Derek Carr went as far to say as he thinks he would retire before he would play. in a different uniform that's loyalty claybon do we do we care about this i care i i dare car is threatening to retire in the event that the las vegas raiders trade him that's what i'm hearing uh yeah you can you guys can float these constant trade discussions every single year or i can just say right now uh if you trade me i quit i will not play for any other team i'm tired of this constant discussion uh i see it as mattering because i think he might do it like i i i think i think he would

shut it down, perhaps, just out of sheer spite for this constant conversation that he's been a part of. I mean, we don't know if Derek Carr internally is the guy that's saying and telling people closest to him, I want to play until I'm 40, which you've heard from like eight other quarterbacks at this point. Is he that guy? I mean, it's a bit of a severe kind of like, you know, these things don't work in relationships ultimatums. So if you're telling the Raiders, like, I'm your starter. And if you feel displeased with my play, I'm just, just going to retire. What's like, okay, but I don't think he'd ever actually do that because you're leaving

a tremendous amount of potential money on the table unless you kind of are done with football at some point. Or this to me felt like a quarterback who's always playing from behind with the fan base, a big chunk of the fan base, with the media. Like, I've been hard on Derek Har, but like, honestly, he played pretty well last year in some tough situations. He's not always, you know, had the easiest environment. he does, even if he performs beyond expectations,

he's always sort of this person who's viewed is not good enough for John Grude and not quite what the Raiders want because they're going after Tom Brady. You know, you're thinking they might go after someone like, maybe they'd go after Aaron Rogers. They'd try a trade for someone else. There's always another quarterback lingering in the imaginative distance

and Derrick Har never seems to make anyone happy enough. And he said as part of these comments that people don't know how close he is with John Gruden off the field, which I thought was interesting. Maybe that relationship has gotten better and better. He said, I'm a Raider for my entire life. I'm going to root for one team for the rest of my life. It's the Raiders.

I feel so strong in my heart. I don't need a perfect situation to make things right. I'd rather go down with the ship. It does feel like one of those things that happens in sports, I guess probably more than most industries, but maybe others that like you are loyal to your employer until you realize how disloyal they are to you because I just the Raiders aren't going to be loyal

to Derrick Carr the second that his performance drops. So he I don't I don't put too much stock into the retirement threat because Derek Carr can make a great living and play football for another decade, whether it's starting backup whatever it's going to be in the long run. It is it is fascinating. though, that they've had, like, this run together. He does seem like one of those guys, though,

um, that, like, was really mad at Kevin Durant for leaving the thunder, you know? That's, like, very loyal, wants his players to be loyal to their teams, even though they're not necessarily loyal to him. So he's not going to be, like, doing the Russell Wilson, um, let's leak to the media things if he, if he has a great season and, like, wants to get a bigger contract. His contract's coming up fairly soon, by the way, Derek Carr. But as Mark said, he doesn't have the public capital to do that because people are always getting at him just for being Derek Carr.

Like, he's been pretty good. Well, including us. So I, at least including me. I'll say myself. I've never, I never was totally a believer. And I think he's improved every year with Gruden. And he is an asset now for sure. I think he's a top 12 quarter.

I think he is too. But I mean, we're in a league where unless you have one of those top five guys, it's totally fair game to be looking around. round to be thinking about we could draft someone and he's just always someone you never how often do we think like hey they have derrick hard they're good for the next four or five years no one thinks that right it's he'll be supplanted he'll be replaced by someone soon right jimmy j got replaced maybe he wouldn't have if he had stayed healthy but he's kind of at a similar tier well we'll see whoever the next quarterback is right when it's when it's Aaron rogers or tom brady like okay like yeah i can't be too mad about that russell wilson yeah i also can't be too but once you get into like

maybe below that tier, then you start to get your feelings hurt. I do want to point out, though, if Derek Carr was a free agent, I heard this discussion somewhere else, I forget, like trying to guess what he would make. And, you know, it was somewhere in between that,

like, unbelievable backup and, like, quality starter level, which is, like, 24 is the bottom of that. And I thought that's crazy. I think Derek Carr would make over, $30 million a year. Easily. Because of Kirk Cousins type signing. Kirk Cousins is the perfect example.

Kirk Cousins, when he actually was a free agent and any team could sign him, got 30 million because there was competitive services for him. And I think Derek Carr would be as attractive or more as Cousins was as a free agent. So, you know, you don't have to retire, Derek. You can keep playing. Let's finish with one more sort of holdout. Adams was excused from mandatory minicamp. So it's not a holdout, but Pete Carroll did allude to the contract negotiation taking place

between the two sides as being a factor in why he's not there. And he said that they've been making, that they've been doing good work on Jamal Adams's contract and that he thinks they're going to get there. I think this does matter because Carol's saying that publicly, was more important than Adams not being there. It basically said that it's a matter of time. This thing is going to be signed before training camp starts. And Jamal Adams will very likely be the highest paid safety in the league

topping Justin Simmons in Denver. Mark, what do you think? I mean, I feel like it was all predestined when they gave up multiple first for them and kind of said he's the cherry on top of our Super Bowl roster. That's how we see ourselves. I mean, I love that they're aggressive. you know, when that deal initially happened, I killed the Jets for one thing, not being able to hold on to star players. But looking at what they've done since, where I was incorrect or where I should have been a little bit different in my view of that,

was that he wasn't going to stick around with the Jets. They got a ton of value for him and they found a buyer who bought at a high, high value. I mean, it's like incredible what they now have to deal with because they have no choice but to pay Jamal Adams a huge amount of money. So why have him at mini camp? what he is some sort of a non-contact injury that takes him out of the deal for six months. Just keep them in ice and bring them back because you're forced to pay him now. I don't like that for Seattle a whole lot. I like the player.

There's a lot of drama that comes with him, but I just feel like they have zero leverage. They have no, they have the opposite of leverage. Yeah, I also see it as not mattering. I think Jamal Adams would play with an amputated foot. I think him missing a few days of mini-camp, is it going to be a long-term problem? and like Mark said, and like you've said, Greg, when you make the trade, you've already made the investment. It's just a matter of time before you get pinned to paper.

And so I just see this as dotting of eyes and crossing a tease. And it's not really going to hurt Jamal Adams and his ability to play football. He's not going to forget. Right. They can find him and they're not going to because he's excused. And then the fines in training camp really get aggressive. So skipping this week is one of the only levers players have left to pull, like Stefan Gilmore or Howard or Adams.

It gets harder to do when it comes to training camp. Dwayne Brown, by the way, their left tackle also said he wants a new contract and he has one year left on his deal. He was at mini-camp, so this really isn't a huge deal. But I wouldn't be surprised if they give him an extra year or two on his contract because he's still playing at a really high level, kind of on the Andrew Whitworth plan. Okay, that was fun.

You know, I think we settled it. We settled what matters, what doesn't. Claibon's got like a news hit coming up in about 10 minutes. Do you need to go, Patrick? No, we're good. We're good. Okay. I'm good.

So we're going to wrap up this summary show with some book recommendations. You know, I threw one out out of the blue, apparently, last week, not understanding what our last segment was going to be in our pride episode. But Mark thought this would be a fun way. It's summertime. Maybe you have a little more time. You're going to the beach. That's a thing.

And we're going to throw out some books we like to wrap up the show and go on for a long weekend. At least for us, Claibon's going to be grinding. Well, you want to start, Mark, since this was your idea? Sure. I can throw one out there. I excel at buying books. When it comes to reading them at this stage in life, that's not been. I've not been so successful there.

But I got this book, Room to Dream, put it in front of the camera there. it is David Lynch the director and artist David Lynch it's like an autobiography but why I think it's amazing and I'm only about 40 pages into it is that he co-wrote it with this writer Christine McKenna and she goes and writes like let's say there's 20 chapters that go through his life she did a ton of research interviewed hundreds of people she'll write the chapter about David Lynch from age born to age seven and then Lynch in the next chapter comes back and basically read not rewrites it, but he writes his version of it, because invariably it's going to be different than your research and who you talk to it, which is his POV. So the whole book is going through

his whole career that way. He's number one, an awesome writer. She is too. But his, the way he thinks and the way he remembers stuff, like, then you go watch his films. And it's like, this is one of the more unusual individuals out there. And people don't know he did like Twin Peaks. He did, you know, a bunch of stuff. I mean, he's, he's also an artist. Mohal and Drive. And Mulholland Drive, like, lost highway. I was one of those memorable movie-going experiences of my life is driving, like, spooky L.A. streets, like where I saw some of the scenes, like the Pink's Hot Dog Stand, was right near the movie theater I saw it at.

And I was just like, oh, my gosh. Yeah. So, you know, I like to recommend a book that I've only also read 30-something pages of, which, you know, anything could happen from here on out. But there you go. So you're just throwing out one. Oh, I came up with too big of a list here. Oh, I just didn't want to go in a row.

No, that's good. Clay. one for later. Okay, Claibon. I don't have a substantial list. I probably could crank out a couple. But I've been really big into historical materialism this past few months, starting with W.E.B. Du Bois's Black Reconstruction in America, which takes a materialist look back at the circumstances leading up to the Civil War and throughout the Reconstruction era before it was violently put down, set us on the path that we are today.

So that was a, that was a good book for me, got into it with a reading group and it spawned other readings. So that led to a productive summer of learning, right, which is not summer, I guess spring. I don't know what days are anymore. Especially in L.A. In L.A., it's all kind of the same. And audiobooks are crucial for me, right? Because between the kids and everything, you can't have your attention divided too much before, especially the larger one tries to destroy. some object or himself or his little sister.

So, yeah, the audiobook of Black Reconstruction was good. Then there's Black Jacobins. I guess there's a theme, right, which chronicles the Haitian Revolution by C.L.R. James was a great book as well. If you're into, right, a view of history and circumstances and want to have a better understanding past, like, these people were mad at those people, right? And you want to get into the economic circumstances. Those are two really good books for me. First of all, Claibon had the briefest stop at Dad Summit of anyone. And I only bring this up because I feel, I feel, I don't know if it was your pain,

but I empathize with your situation, Claibon, because I have been there. You came to the party. You were aggressive in hoping to take care of a, what, how old's your daughter? One, she just turned one. Yeah. Okay. he's one and Malcolm is four is four but he's he's such a substantial four that it he is he's a lot and you yeah and you realize I don't know how long it was but it wasn't long

that um nope not worth it yeah it wasn't going to work so it's might have been a half hour it was I I did I've done the exact same thing multiple multiple times you got to pull the rip cord sometimes and that those I wouldn't even have tried the days are not not not a centrist like you're aggressive even trying the baby part of it, like combining it. I would, sometimes I'd leave with one. Mine are older now, and it is, it does get easier. So, you know, that, that's, it does get easier that I think it doesn't get easy, but it gets easier, I think, uh, in situations like that. Uh, and I should read more nonfiction. I don't know. I, I don't read enough nonfiction. I, like, reading is really,

I was going to critique you in the same way, Greg. I don't think you've been reading enough nonfiction and sketch your act together, please. I almost only read fiction I didn't really come to reading this aggressively until I was about 32 so it's never too late but I really found it is the most relaxing thing I can do like it's the best thing I have for mental health

I have never had a religion but I think it's the closest thing I have to a religion where it like it just chills me out and I think it's because it takes you out of your own head at least for me and it's nice to get it's the same thing with a great movie but it takes you out of your own head goes into someone else and said

Because we're football, though, I'm going to throw out a couple of football books. It's been a while since I read these, but I just thought, and I've probably done it before on this show, but I don't care. Bringing the Heat by Mark Bowden is maybe my favorite season in the life book ever. The same guy wrote this book called Black Hawk Down, which became a big movie. But before that, he wrote a season in life about the Randall Cunningham, Jerome Brown Eagles. And it's so awesome. I've read it more than once. It really holds up.

And he really goes in. and the characters on the Eagles team are awesome. Similarly, there's this book, A Few Seconds of Panic by Stefan Fatsis, where he was in the Broncos training camp in 2006, kind of doing this George Plimpton paper line thing where he got to practice with the kickers a whole time and eventually got to, like, you know, kick

during some inter-squad scrimmage or something at practice. But there's so few books that have, like, a real inside look at what a team is like now. And this is Jay Cutler's rookie year. So it's Jake Cutler versus Jake Plummer. There's Mike Shanahan being very Mike Shanahany and like sort of dominating an entire organization. There's Brandon Marshall as a rookie. Javon Walker's there. And it's a lot of time with the kickers and punters too, which is a fun world.

And that is a really fun read. And then to go really old school and see like what the NFL was like the last season of Weeb Eubank by Paul Zimmerman, who I've brought up before, Paul Zimmerman. But this is one of Joe Namath injured seasons in New York, and he's on the plane with them the whole time. And it's a great look at what the NFL was like back then and really well written. So there's some three football books for you. So there's some nonfiction.

I like that. Yeah. And I do read fiction as well. I got the zombie survival guide in my shop. I didn't know. Is that nonfiction? That, I mean, that is fiction. What is that?

I guess, you know. It's a guide to prepare for the eventual rise of the living dead, right? Okay. Do you feel, did it bring up things you wouldn't have thought up? Are you prepared? Honestly, it was helpful for the pandemic, like food prep and storage-wise. Not as much, right, fending off people. But we did see that line of people at the gun store right across the street from the network.

Maybe they were taking it to heat, but not me. You had another one, Mark? So the other one that I've been reading is this actor, Klaus Kinski. Why am I so bad at putting the book in the camera? it's called Kinski Uncut he is an actor that died some decades ago one of the craziest human beings

around Warner Herzog the director did a they did a documentary together based on their many films together called not my best friend but my best fiend because there were multiple times when Klaus Kinski literally was planning to kill

Warner Herzog on set I mean there's some incredible stories he's German he's a crazy man but this this autobiography I don't know why I'm stacking autobiographical reads, but you know, you get like 50, 60 pages into it. You're like, if this is this actually this man's life, I have never read any account of ones living this way ever, ever before. He's a truly strange character, but there are whispers and maybe more than whispers that a lot of the book is just made up, that he went and wrote a huge autobiography, but concocted like huge chunks of it as total fiction. That said, you can tell that some of it is based in his real experiences in a completely different world than we've ever lived in.

So if nothing else, it is a gripping read. You've suddenly read like 31 pages and you have no idea where the hours have gone. Yeah, it's like what's fiction, nonfiction? It blends together, for real. Well, like memoirs and stuff. Yeah, it doesn't matter. I like the more recent trend they call it like auto fiction. It's like, yeah, just write about your life but make up a few things to make the story better.

call it fiction and like that's people like like to read that that's basically what fiction has been pretty often anyways all right um you don't you have to go claibon right yeah i'm copying over a script now okay so go i'm gonna throw out two more just because uh when else are we going to do this dan will be back and he'll be like no books allowed um all right uh we'll say goodbye to you claibon um all right and i'm thank you claibon and i just got throw out two two quick novels to um drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead by Olga Tocorchik, which is one of the great titles ever. Drive your plow over the bones of the dead. It's kind of like a murder mystery where you think possibly animals are killing the humans.

It's not to give away too much. But it's deep yet a quick read. And the other one is called Earthlings by Seyaka Marada, which I think Mark would really like, which is really out there. People that do not think they're from this planet necessarily, or they just feel a little out of step with what's going on in Japan, and it goes crazy from there. But it's a lot of.

Well, I do think you have a bit of a special power in terms of recommending books to me that I like. You have an incredible batting average, so I will write that down. And it will be a book that I'll buy, and then three years from I'll be like, I probably should start reading this. But, you know, it just looks good in the back.

I picked those two because they're both like, not for you, but yeah, they're like 250 pages or less. I think they're both relatively quick reads. Earthlings, yeah, by Marada and Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead by recent Nobel Prize winner, Olga to Korchuk. But it's a fun. But that one is like she even said was kind of her, I need money while I'm writing this tone that took me eight years to write.

And I'm going to take a break and write this murder mystery over the course of like six months, but it turned out to be like one of her best books and is like an amazing read. That's how I feel about like NFL.com articles like in theory, quietly working on something important in the background while punching these things out left and right. Not even left and right at this point.

The speed is slow. Like wait, what are the important thing that you're working on then? Well, no, that's the part that's missing, unfortunately. But I'd like to think, you know, if you whenever you're like have these, you like to think you're working on something important. In fact, I've probably even told people that at various junctures. Is it true?

Not at all. This podcast is important. I mean, if you've made it this far, in this deep in the off season, you've got to love this podcast. Or you really love reading. Who really knows? We will be back on Tuesday next week. And hopefully we'll have some good stories to tell. And hopefully the NFL does not explode in the next day.

two as mini camps wrap up the NFL, all the players, coaches, GM's front office. They are taking their only true time off of the year through about July 4th. Then some of the people start coming back. The players come back for training camp. We'll be around next week and throughout the offseason, but maybe not quite as much. All right. Let's hit the music. There it is. Until Tuesday, Mark Sessler was here. Patrick Claiborne was here. We got help from producing Justin. Keep the call.

Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it.

Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.