NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Draft Mailbag + Scouting with Mike Tannenbaum

Episode Date: April 20, 2023

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal answer your questions in a special draft-focused ATN mailbag! Then, former NFL executive Mike Tannenbaum joins the show to discuss the most difficult positions to evaluate (27:31), why Hendon Hooker is his top quarterback in this class (31:30), why the Patriots might trade Mac Jones (38:36), and much more. Note: timecodes approximate.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast Still thinks they could pass for college students. From the Chris Wesleying podcast studio. I don't know who is claiming that in this room. Is that the consistent, like, angry ageism theme coming from Jason's own? I think it might have been a reference yet to the concert goer over. It's Around the NFL.

I'm Dan Hansis, Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sasser. Yeah, Mark went to Coachella, what of it? Why is it made such a tremendous deal of? I don't know. It seems like someone else has issues with it much more than I do. I came, I went, I've moved on, it's now, was it Thursday? It's Thursday. The most surprising thing about it was you are a self-admitted, not a music guy.

Yeah, but that was the only surprising thing about it. Well, first of all, I wouldn't, that's an over-explanation that's off base. I do like tons of music. I went there and found new stuff that I liked, but there's about 7,000 other things that you can accomplish there and see and do. So, you know, get off his back is what... That's the takeaway here.

Who's they? Well, we're going to have to ask my producer. I mean, they came back here with all these production elements attacking my weekend choices. Yeah, what's going on? What's going on behind the scenes? Who propelled you to go down that road, Justin? I didn't write that drop,

but I did receive it a little while ago, and I thought based on the things that had happened earlier this week on the show that it made sense to be, you know, a follow-up to yesterday. I would imagine that not all layers of the pre-planning process have been revealed to myself.

The narrative was in place, you're saying, Justin, and you were just extending the narrative. Right. The through line of this week's story. I always try to find a zoom drop that relates to what is happening in the show. That's just good producing.

You know what else would be good producing, suggesting that, you know, it's the off-season, we've got some extra breathing space here. We should do the 7,000 things at Coachella not involved in music that you can get into. Podcast. I think that would be fun. It's made a bit of a mouthful, but I'd like to hear all 7,000. Be happy to host that.

And I think Zumwold and any writers behind the scenes might have some, that might be more material. Exactly. Unbelievable. It all folds into one seamless production. Speaking of our producer, Justin Graver. there had been as I understand it this was a little surprising to me but people aren't clear

on some details of our live round one stream of the NFL draft and what exactly it is I guess we didn't do me included by the way so we didn't do the job that we were trying to do in the last show in terms of explaining what it is so do you want to perhaps provide clarity

to those members of the audience and Mark absolutely I would love to. So we're going to be live on YouTube during the first round of the draft. Who's talking right now, by the way? I played it. Walt Dan was done. Oh, you did.

But just for you, guys. During the first round of the draft, next Thursday night, April 27th, we'll be live at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific, basically to watch the first round of the draft. If you guys have ever wondered, what's it like to watch the draft with the ATN heroes, this is your chance. We're not going to be broadcasting the draft footage. or coverage.

So it's sort of like a compendium. Put the draft on your TV. Compendium. On NFL network. Oh, done. Open up your laptop, your tablet, your phone, stream the ATN show, and hang out with us during the draft.

Were people wondering if we'd be tipping picks or something like that? I think people were wondering if we would show the, like, Goodell announcing each pick or anything like that. We won't be tipping. We won't be tipping picks. We won't be doing any of that. We're just going to be, like, hanging out watching the draft. So join us.

It's going to be fun. And I love the word compendium. I also want to say. say like if people don't want to do it in concert with the telecasts, I say you should and watch NFL network. But we're going, as soon as the trap pick is made by Roger Goodell, we're going to repeat it as well. So we could be a one-stop shop if you need us to be as well.

We certainly will be mentioning it. We will not be calling it a compendium, though. Compendium? Yeah. I think you were trying to think of addendum? I don't even know. A compendium is a summary according to dictionary.com, a brief treatment or account of a subject. I don't think it works in this context

In any way, companion or addendum, I guess. I don't think a compendium would be three plus hours long. No, either way, it's not a word that makes any sense in the context of used it. English is kind of hard, you know. It was fine, Justin. You could just roll it. An auxiliary. You can tell Greg to shut up to.

I think it's an auxiliary show. I mean, if we're going to give them props. It's a nice word. There's some people that have told me they've learned English by listening to this podcast. Who told you that? I wouldn't want to. Would you please shut up? Lead him astray.

Today's show, good one. More draft coverage. Mike Tannenbaum, former front office GM and executive vice president. He's done it all in our league. And now he's an insider for ESPN and a friend of the show. This is Mike's first trip to around the NFL land. He's going to join us a little bit later.

But before we do that, speaking of the listeners and viewers that we love. Oh, so much. Sent out a mailbag prompt yesterday. Draft questions, comments, theories. What do you got? And I thought they did a nice job. I thought they did a nice job. Is that always the case?

I mean, I feel like the performance goes up and down. Up and down. This time, they seem primed. I would say who's like a inconsistent, like who's known for being inconsistent in the NFL? like he can't quite put a finger on his performance see like a baker mayfield yeah it's like in a baker mayfield sort of fits that yeah so we're but this was baker

playing the broncos on christmas or whatever great performance let's get to it maybe we're shorting the audience with baker yeah that feels a little franchise in turmoil and you know how about kirk cousins let's do that he's kind of steady ed derrick car car's a little of a derrick car let's go there

But that's only when it comes to the mailbag. That's rough. Let's go through some questions that kind of jumped out that were solid. Justin, let's go. Do you want to read them, Justin? I'd be happy to read them. Okay, go ahead. All right, at Dan, at around the NFL.

You don't need to, yeah. Okay, well, this one I did because it's where do you, Dan, and each of the heroes want to see Richardson land. Also, I implore Mark to flex his third eye after his stay in the desert to peek into the future and relay to us whether this young man's tale, be tall or tragic. That's from Jakababro. I like that one.

Very good, Jacob. This man is celebrating 420 today, this tweet, the author of the tweet. Hey, 420, bro. 420, bro. Ow! That's a shout-out to our friend. Dave Damasek would do that in the newsroom very often. Very often.

Anthony Richardson, polarizing, tantalizing draft prospect out of the university. of Florida. Mark? My first instinct is enough with this jazz about the Falcons telling us that Desmond Ritter is the second coming of someone else. Like, just go get Anthony Richardson. I love the idea of him being developed there in a run-heavy offense that can use everything he does. You can use Ritter this year and let Richardson grow into what he is. I think Richardson is someone who's going to be like, oh, he's a raw project who will be starting by the second half of week two. Yeah, I'd love to see him with the Lions. That was my easy choice. Like, I think

the Seahawks should take them. It's taken me a while to get to this point because you know how I feel about Gino. But I just think with their system and the way they develop players, I think the Seahawks actually should take Richardson because it's such an opportunity at the top of the draft. But I don't think they will. And I will be happy that they don't if the lions grab them right after that. And he's the quarterback of the future there. Exciting. If the Falcons come out of this draft with Desmond Ritter and then all these different free agency, they brought in I'm going to ether their asses on Saturday night. Go get a quarterback.

I'm looking forward to Desmond Ritter week. They're interesting if they get a quarterback that you can really get excited about. Some people think that's Desmond Ritter. Raise your hand if you're out there. Next. All right. Next question from Blair Kerrigan. Quote, intangibles.

Quote, get out of jail. Phrases used by GM's league wide. First question. Over under how many times this will be uttered on draft night and second part, top 10 drinking game words for Draft Night That's good Let's see

I mean value you would be drunk If you'd use the word value Aaron Rogers You'd be sauced Let's see What is it bendable Yeah I think bendable I feel like sometimes can be a little more

of a day two or day three Where they're really doing the old stretch for content Whatever we need to do talk about how the way his legs and ankles move. Trade up, trade back. Tremendous upside. High motor guy. You could do a bingo card.

You really could. Sleeper pick. Student of the game. Intangibles is annoying because like intangibles could mean literally anything. Off like off the field means almost anything. Like Jalen Carter for instance has a very serious. thing that happened in his life that changed his life. And I think that should be considered.

But I've seen it kind of thrown that in like the fact that, oh, does he play hard every play? Like, and they just throw it into one big intangibles bucket. And it's like you've got to spell it out what you're talking about. Does he pass the eye test? He does. That's a good one. And as for the over under, I would say intangibles on the, you're talking about the, and we, everything we drive through the NFL network telecast, the 8 o'clock to 11 o'clock or whatever,

Eastern NFL network telecast. say 14 and a half. For intangibles. I'll set the over under. Best available player, that's one. Here's one that annoys me. It's like, you can plug them in for 10 years. Like that's a 10 year starter.

Plug and play 10 years start. It's always 10 and it's always a guard. And by the way, guards like haven't been that safe picks in general, but it's always like, oh, plug and play 10 years. This guy was, his pro day was unbelievable. All right, what else we got? I like this one, by the way, trash can full of dirt. I don't even know.

What does that even mean? Yeah, that's pretty common. You know, maybe we should make a bingo card for our draft show next Thursday and play this game as it goes. Great call. We'll talk about it. Defensive linemen who are hard to move out of the way, a trash can full of dirt. Have you ever tried?

It's pretty good. It's a heavy object. I think we could come up with a fun list. We would be drinking, though, Gatorade. Right. The official NFL sponsor. So much Pepsi. Yeah, let's get a big whiteboard, a bingo board.

Yeah, it'd be fun. All right. Next question from Joe Lifting. A draft theory, actually, not a question. The Detroit Lions will take two D-Linmen and or edge rushers with their picks at 6 and 18, and defenses across the NFL will be overwhelmed with this talent complimenting Hutchinson and Houston, and the Lions will surpass the 70 sacks of the Eagles. Okay, so that's 70 sack.

That's a high number. I don't know about all that, but I totally believe they should do the old, speaking of tropes and cliches. I think the line should think very hard about doing the all defense draft where the team that feels like it's only one side of the ball that's giving them trouble and then they very consciously only draft

players on that side of the ball I feel like the Cowboys have done that three or four times under Jarrah in the last 10 years or so I love the idea of them going and getting whether it's Will Anderson or Tyree Wilson Carter might fall to them at 6th

that would be crazy Carter next to Hutchinson would be pairing with Hutchinson and then have a real strength in your front seven. Because I don't think the offense, it might be asking too much for the offense to be as good as it was last year, but I don't think it's going to crater. So I love the idea of building up that defense for Dan Campbell

and then seeing what happens. I like the spot they're in. I don't feel like they have massive deeds so they can do whatever they want. I think they want to take defensive linemen. I think it'd make more sense at six because it feels like defensive linemen get pushed up a lot. This class seems not super deep.

and taking one again at 18. They have taken Hutchinson, Onu Zerike, Josh Pascal, Alim McNeil, and there's another one I think that's not even on the team anymore that slips my mind. They've taken a lot of linemen under Dan Campbell. I mean, Hutchinson worked out so far. That's part of it.

It's like actually hitting on these draft picks. The Detroit Lions have been drafting top five for like seven eons in a row. And remember the Lions, they get four games against the Bears and the Vikings. Maybe the Vikings will be better on defense this year. That is a Viking shade. Their defense was wretched last year.

13 teams. All right. What else? All right. From the Strength of Record podcast, big pop for them here. If the Packers draft a wide receiver out of spite, is that what it takes for Rogers to get his second ring? But with another team, chip on his shoulder. What is going on?

Let's check out that wide receiver room for. It's pretty rough. The Packers. It would be kind of ironic if Rogers is gone and they use the first round pick after having two last year. It's Watson and Dobbs are there one and two, which seems insane. Because Lazard is obviously gone now there too.

It seems insane. And they don't have a three. Samari, Tori, I guess. And they had two first round picks last year in a great wide receiver class, and they punted on it. And now they're almost desperate for a wide receiver and it's not seen as a great wide receiver class.

So, of course, they will probably take a wide receiver. It looks like spiteful timing. But I mean, if you suddenly are good, going to roll with Jordan Love, which they are, like, you have to build, it's not the same thing with Aaron Rogers where you trust him, his smarts, his pre-snap, et cetera, to do it all for you. Like, Jordan Love needs to be surrounded by human beings that can help them out. They might be looking at the graybeard's lineup and seeing Jarvis Landry. They need to bring in some veteran.

They need a tight end too. So I think they could take the first tight end off the board at 14. Wouldn't be totally shocked. And as for the strength of record podcast theory here, I do think there is some juice to get behind about Rogers, all the great ones. We'll find motivation and try to stick it to the Packers this year. I don't know if it's going to be the Packers drafting a wide receiver. That really is what gives them the eye of the tiger, though.

So, no, I don't think that's going to do it. But check out the Strength of Record podcast. What is it about? Five times a week. Yeah. I don't know what is the strength of record podcast. Is it a football podcast? Didn't look into it.

I don't know. Okay. Dangerous. This one comes from Robert Comdichet's burner. Oh, good. Going into last year, it was the consensus view among analysts that Seattle had one of the worst rosters in the league, a narrative that proved totally wrong. Which team or teams with a good draft class could exceed expectations in terms of roster

talent this year? The first thing that comes to mind is if they go quarterback, which they're going to do and they get it right and the quarterback plays right away, the Carolina Panthers. I think there's a lot of talent on both sides. of the ball and you've got that Frank Reich coaching boost. A lot of chaos has been put away and I think there's just they've played without a quarterback

for ages. Things could change. I think that was a perfect choice. I don't know if I can top it. The Falcons I think have a chance, the rest of the roster. They've just signed a lot of okay guys, but the okay guys are upgrades over what they have and so I think they're only a couple

pieces away. They would be another one. But I like the Panthers answer better. I will throw out the Chicago Bears who have a lot of draft assets and they have added some bodies in there and Justin Fields hopefully is fully healthy I think with a good draft class they could be a team that is in contention in that division potentially that's a wide open division I think the NFC North it's interesting division Fields is the key and he needs help all right more mailbag to hit but let's pause for a quick break hey this is Matt Jones now I'm Drew Franklin and

And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get.

Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision-makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else.

It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. All right, we're back. Here we go. This next question comes from Will Savage. Is the Colts moving up to two or three, I guess, to get Stroud or Young a real possibility? Would the Texans be willing to trade down? I'm assuming he means with the Colts.

Doesn't it feel like Jim Mersey has something up his sleeve? Do you see his tweet? No. He basically said we can move up, we can move down, we can do what we can sit right where we are and get someone. They're going after a quarterback. Wait, so what did that tweet actually, what was he saying? He said, like, would the Texans actually trade down to the courts?

No, but what does Jim Ursay saying with that? All options seem available to the Indianapolis Colts in terms of, like, what they'd be a license to go do, get crazy. He also, didn't he like, he like sent out the pictures of the different quarterback? It's, yes, he did. It's preposterous. I like the theory. I think I saw it from Trevor Sycamma. Apologies if I pronounced it.

wrong from PFF, who thought the whole Texans, like, we're going to not draft the quarterback smokescreen is all about like getting someone else to trade up to the number three spot. And they end up actually taking a quarterback at the number two spot, and that leaves the Colts out in the cold and not getting their quarterback, which I like that as a theory. Because why are the Texans putting it out there so much that they're not going to take a quarterback?

Maybe it's the truth, but I don't trust anything. Like, they are absolutely letting national reporters know, like, that's their plan. So they're going to go to those extreme lengths just to essentially pull one over on the cults? That's so savage. I think it would just be like it's overly complex. Wheel savage is what it is. How about cults focus on yourselves? And same with Texans.

I don't think, I think the cults come out of this. If they gave Lamar Jackson the cold shoulder to this point have, I think. think there's no way they don't come out of this draft where they are right now with somebody they really are feeling good about. Could be Will Levis. DJ keeps saying a lot of teams like Levis. Okay. Next question from Matt Anderson, actually another draft theory.

Joe Douglas can't be bothered to trade for Rogers as he's tired of the Packers games. Instead, Douglas packages picks and moves up to draft Will Levis. Thoughts? I did think about what if there was more going on than we realize. Is it completely out of the realm of possibility that the Jets pull a shocker and take a quarterback? Is that a possibility? Probably not. We're probably too far down the road here with Rogers for anything to happen.

But at the same time, like, we know Rogers is a short-term fix, too. Like, we don't know, even if he is a jet, how long he's going to be there. I wouldn't rule it out, but like I said, on a previous show, I would be stunned if they do anything else but take a offensive tackle on night one. I mean, if you're Joe Douglas, first. of all, like, if this Rogers thing ever went south and there was a plan B, like, that's not going to be received well no matter what. But, like, if you're Joe Douglas, part two, the idea of drafting a rookie who two months

into the recies and you realize this guy also is not working out a la Zach, it's like, you can't let, you have to go get Aaron Rogers because it's the one thing, even if he is substandard Aaron Rogers, no one's going to blame the Jets for going, having gone and done that, or Joe Douglas for going to get it done. I appreciate how quiet it's been, actually. We would be getting on Rogers saying he wants so much attention if they'd be keeping the drips and the drabs over the last month. It's just been quiet.

I don't think there's any chance. I think he's 100% a jet. Right. It's just happening. It would be wild, though. They'd turn in that draft card and it's a quarterback. It'd be a great draft moment. I would be glad to be on a live stream with you at the time.

Just let's get the disc trade done Thursday night, though. That would be cool. Because we're not doing a live stream for rounds two and three. And just think about the content. Help us out. Think about our content specifically. We have done our Aaron Rogers emergency podcast already, though. That's been filed.

We did have a live stream of Mark Sessler when Johnny Mansell was drafted. We invented the live stream with that. It was actually just like a video on a cell phone. But it went on the internet. Let's do a quick speed round. Okay, quick speed round from Jeff Yates. With Joe Mixon's off field and contract situations, how are the Bengals being slept on for a destination for B. John Robinson?

Yeah, I love that. Well, they'd have to trade up. I don't think they're going to get them there. And I think Grave-Degro- Where are the Bengals right now? 28? He's absolutely a Bengal if he's on the board there, but I just don't think he'll be on the board.

But if they moved up 28 to 18 or something, who knows you? Yeah, I love the idea. There would be a lot of excited people in Cincinnati. What else? Let's say the GM app is real. Which GMs would have the hardest time actually using it? Which would have the easiest? Okay, I did see this, and I was thinking about,

this. I think Jerry Jones would struggle. He's got Steve in there. Yeah, but at various times of the day, I think he'd struggle for various reasons. I don't think Bill Belichick gets kind of cute. He wouldn't be good, but maybe he would be. I don't know. Well, we've seen

him struggle with cell phone and texting, and it led to a major lawsuit against the NFL. You're right. That's a tough. That was a bad bead for Bill. There's so many young GMs that I think that the vast majority would be absolutely fine with it. We need a GM app, though. How much

longer can we deal with this i don't think john lynch um super mobile i don't know why he just seems like he's not living in that world all right keep going justin all right i think we have time for a couple more only all right from johnny eastgate mark sessler's mock draft the highlight of any draft buildup when's it going to happen i know we talked about this but i think wednesday yeah without fail without fail yes all right last question from Sean Black for each of the heroes who's your guy in the draft?

All right. Who wants to start? Well, so on the episode where Claibon and Colleen joined, we each picked a draft, our guy. And it went right through that there was been no grumbling

about the fact that it went right through all the clearinghouse boards and all the executives. So you think. I picked Joey Porter, Jr., because I love the idea of him going either to the steel, where his father played, or in a major chaotic scenario,

going to like the Ravens or something, where he goes to their number one rival. I just was pointing out that it always annoyed me as a younger Browns fan when the Browns, who were searching for any sense of identity or help, passed on Clay Matthews Jr. Or everyone who passed on JJ Watts' brother. It's like, let's stop overthinking these things and picking, like, the bloodlines we know we're going to succeed.

This is like a 6-3-193-pound defensive back who can hammer people Joey Porter Jr. is my guy. Pro nepotism. Nepo baby. In this case. You are a guy. I am saying if you're going to go down NEPO road, get it right.

This is one way to get it right. Go ahead, Greg. So many options. I mean, Anthony Richardson is the guy I'm going to be the most excited to watch and rooting for, but he feels too top shelf to pick as. You must have to go non-quarterback.

So I got to, yeah, think about our upcoming guests here, Mike Tannenbaum and go, Tajay Spears from Tulane, the running back who you can just see placing him in there and he's going to follow the second or third round and then he's going to have a Matt Forte-like career. I know he's a different player than Forte, but excellent vision. The way he can make people miss in small areas,

he's good on all three downs. He is a player, and he's going to be reping the green ways. He is officially your guy. Let's go to the kicker club. I like Eddie Ogamba out of South Dakota. He's got a howitzer. A little inconsistent, though. Ty Zentner out of TCU.

You got to pick us one year guy. Yeah, I'm just narrowing it down here. We have Jonathan Cruz out of Ole Miss. Very talented. He's got a big boot. Tanner Brown OSU, 95% last year, 22 of 23. And he split the uprights from 53. But his leg's not huge.

So I'm going to tell you my three guys that I really wrestled with here. Chad Ryland out of Maryland. Guy was Mr. Automatic last year. He hit 250 plus bombs against Michigan. He could be drafted. I like Christopher Dunn. A lot of people say Christopher Dunn out of NC State. He's your guy.

He's the Lou Graza winner. He's got a ton of swagger, which can go both ways. Monster Legg hit 96.6% field goals. But my guy, he's out of the U. Michigan's Jake Moody. Two-time Lou Graza finalist. He has one win. Hit a 59-yard field goal in the most recent college football playoffs,

the longest ever. 64% touchback rate on 100 kickoffs. He was tremendous in the Shrine Bowl. That's what they say. He could be a fourth rounder on Saturday. Jake Moody is my guy. Bold. He is officially your guy.

So that's it. All right, let's take a break. You have any questions about the kicker? I was a little surprised. You went through like eight different guys. Moody, look, when you hit a 59, Yarder in the college. Hey, this is Matt Jones.

Now, I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining.

And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL, visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. the conversation that connects the dots from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that

shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Paul semifinals, that's hands as material. Yeah, yeah, you will see him on Sundays. Let's take a break and get to Mr. T.

Welcome back. Our next guest is Mike Tannenbaum, a.k.a. The real Tannenbaum, not verified, but nobody is anymore, aka the ESPN Insider, aka former front office Puba in New York and Miami. And a man once said, it's been said of this man that no one handles billionaires

in conversation better than Mike Tannenbaum. Whoa. Wow. And now he's on with us. Decidedly not Billionbaum. billionaires, but I still feel good about the combo. What's up, Mike? That's something. I've been called a lot.

I never realized I had that monitor as well. You've never heard that before. No. I mean, that's, look, you worked for some powerful people back in the day, but now you're doing the real fun stuff. Draft prep. There's nothing like it. People say what it's like.

It's like an open book exam. You better know two to three sentences and quickly get to your notes. well thanks Mike for joining us and yeah I guess we're going to go in a few different directions here but I was curious because of your experience in front offices kind of start here what is for you the most difficult position when it comes to player evaluation is like is there a position in where it comes to game tape in college where it's most likely to betray you at the next level like what what position makes you more nervous in terms of studying in this process? Yeah. Look, the obvious would be quarterback for all the reasons that you would think. But I would say receiver. I'll give you some of example. Kevin White was mis-evaluated by a lot of people coming out, just given his production. And then when you go back and do the autopsy and look at things like Routree and sort of playbook, you know, that's when things become a little bit more complex. So you really have to have a deep dive and understand, you know, what's expected of the players, what knowledge. they need to have, how fast they can play, their experience. There's a lot of things that go into a level of competition. And, you know, he's just one of many receivers that didn't work out for, could have been a number of reasons in Kevin's case in particular.

But he was somebody I liked a lot. He didn't work out, drafted high. And sometimes when you go from varied offenses and some, I think, are the benefit of doubt cuts against them too much. And the inverse is true to where some receivers get pushed down. me they didn't have production because of the system they were in. Yeah, and lately it's like you can't get a receiver pick wrong.

They almost all seem to work out and this seems like a class where there's going to be a lot taken in the second and third round especially. I'm thinking about what you would be doing when you were running the jets and when you were running the dolphins at this time in the process like a week

before the draft and what you think a team specifically the Texans are doing with with these reports that come out there to the point where it seems like it's intentional that they're getting out there, that they might not be taking quarterbacks. Like, what do you think that's about? And how are you laying the groundwork as a GM as a decision maker over the next week, kind of leading up to the draft?

Well, let me tell you guys a story because it's a cliche, but I lived it and probably lived the most dramatic moment in recent memory with the NFL draft, which is you really need to be prepared for everything. And in the 2016 draft, the number one player on our board was Laramie Tunsell. And for a lot of that draft, moving into that year, Tennessee had the first pick. And everyone thought Tunsel would be the first pick. They needed tackle. And let's move on. We had a good, not great left tackle at the time.

And Brandon Albert and Chris Greer, our GM at the time, who's still there. To his credit, you know, we went through the process of making sure that we thoroughly researched Laramie. and as we know he had a bump in the road and on draft day in real time it was an unbelievable drama in the back of my mind I'm thinking you know like Baltimore is going to need to tackle

they make a lot of great decisions I'm sure they're going to take him and when they took Ronnie Stanley and not Laramie I was like gosh I looked at Chris Greer I looked at Adam Gay Steve Ross our owner one of my billionaire conversations and said hey

you know we went through this process Matt Winston who will be a GM one day It was an Airy Scout, went into Ole Miss in the fall, when it was quiet. And lo and behold, there he is at 13. And, you know, six, seven years later, he's still one of the best, if not the best left tackles in football. So to answer your question, Greg, like you really have to say, like, hey, if we're picking it at, in Houston's case, too, and we try back to seven, we better have seven players that we are rock solid on because something crazy is going to happen. And I don't know, is it maybe Anthony Richardson going before C.J. Stroud? Like, that would not shock me.

I would be surprised, but I wouldn't be shocked if that happens, guys. So you are in the world now. When you were a general manager, everything was behind closed doors. You were in a secret world. Now you were having to put out mock drafts. And I know that the element of your most recent mock draft, the Hendon Hooker to Seattle, absolutely drop draws. And people were just, how can you do this?

How can you put them there? How dare you, frankly, Mike? How dare you? I love how much, because I've listened to some of yourself, how strongly you've come out in favor of him and that he's a little bit lost in the mix because of the knee injury, his age, you know, why would Seattle do this?

Why does it make sense? Explain to me why you made this pick. Yeah, and I'm just making sure that you're talking about my feedback on my mock draft because there was nothing negative that I saw on Twitter. No, okay. Well, no, I guess it's just a few things,

you know, when you lose that blue check mark, it gets tough. I pay for my blue check market. Is that not that? Oh, did you? He just assumed. Tynebaum kept it. Breaking news. Mike T.

Coughed up the eight bucks. Or ESPN did or someone. We don't know. No, ESPN did it. And I will say this. I am not a billionaire and I spent $8. So both those things can be true. But for me guys, like, you know, you talk about like, I will say like I've seen receivers

struggle sometimes again with the transition. And obviously quarterbacks, there's a lot to be said. And I've learned a lot both highs and lows. but when you fundamentally look at the biggest challenge, in my opinion, with quarterbacks, it's experience. And there's nothing like game experience for quarterbacks. Heddon Hooker has started 37 games. And if he was healthy guys, he may be the first pick in the draft.

He has prototypical size. He has a great arm. And I'm telling you he has rare character. I saw it with my own eyes with two different situations. One was the Orange Bowl. I'm on the sidelines. I'm supposed to be scouting, you know, Tennessee and pregame. I am just kissing Peyton Manning's ass

trying to get on the Manning cast, so I'm not going to think of it. And I'm watching Hendon Hooker who's not playing. He's in the huddle with his teammates, as passionate as he can be in a very meaningful way. Fast forward three weeks later, I'm covering the practices for the Senior Bowl. I'm on the field guys.

And here's Hendon Hooker, who cannot play in the game in the huddle in a practice on a Wednesday afternoon in Mobile. And I said to him like, what in the world are you doing, Hendon? He was like, hey, I'm just trying to, help my teammates get better. If somebody's like that vested, like nobody would have blinked if he just left Tennessee,

went out to California with one of those QB gurus, nobody would have held it against them. But here's a guy that was vested at Tennessee despite transferring. Here's a guy that was at the Senior Bowl at every rep. Like that's who I want to be my battlefield commander. And then when you throw on the fact that he led the nation in yards per pass attempt, and I push back on the notion of Tennessee's offense and how, you know, four wide, and how quick they were. I understand there's going to be some challenges in the transition,

but if he goes to Seattle at, let's say, five, they did a wonderful job of extending Gino Smith. There are some outs on the contract. And I just think the old Axiom guys have win for today and DeVell Tomorrow fits really perfectly between Gino Smith and Hendon Hooker. I mean, you've got him as your top quarterback overall. So it's not just you think he would fit well in Seattle. You think he's going to be the best player at the position in five years.

have Bryce Youngnecks and Richardson third, then Stroudon and Lovis. That is bold. That's your guy, Mike. Hendon Hooker's career and your career is now. It's together. Everyone's going to think of you when they think of Hendon Hooker. You'll have to get a tattoo on your bicep. How do you know I don't have them?

Prove it. But look, you know, you have to look at talent and character, and I think he has both. I don't see any holes in his game. I do wish sometimes offensively they stress them more, which they just don't, but he's an underrated athlete. The age doesn't bother me. The experience is a factor in a positive way. I just think when it's all said and done over the next five years, while I love Bryce Young and his foot quickness and how well, how quickly he plays guys. Like the statistics are against Bryce Young.

Like if we were running an insurance company and we had a bet based on data, the data is against Bryce Young. I think he'll be an exception, but that's why I would give the best. for the doubt to Hennon Hennon Hooker over Brichshund. It's not always the buzziest pick for the especially fan bases that wait all, you know, for months ahead of the draft. And then Thursday night comes and then you grab that offensive lineman in the draft. But at the same time, people who know is these winners are built in the trenches. Peter Skoranski at a Northwestern, who's a big time player.

The belief among some people is that he could be a Canton level player if everything clicked. Are you that high on him? Do you see him head and shoulders above the rest of the linemen that are expected to go high in this draft? Yeah, I like him a lot. I don't know if he's Quentin Nelson, but I think he's rock solid. And if I'm the Bears,

I think he's a force multiplier. I plug him in. I start him at guard, ironically, going back to Tunsell, you know, we put Laramie at left guard for a year. And candidly, that was an ideal. Like, he was a little uncomfortable at first, but he slid out to left tackle a year later in the rest of history. And I think, you know, they could certainly do the same thing in Chicago.

I think he has a really, really, really high. floor you know there's a lot about his arm length but he's very functional he's very strong he's tough um so to me i don't think there's a lot of downside and when you're the bears like let's see justin fields with a really good offensive line this and i think there's no better example today than the eagles look jalen hertz has great talent great character he's a markedly marked improved player but i think part of that is the offensive line he's playing behind all right so when your career began way back when it was bill bellichick who uh i believe he read a book that you tried to publish about football scouting etc and decided to hire you way back when so you understand

bill bellichick i want to hear more on that wait how did he read it if it wasn't published i had so many questions you could explain that but you got copies to people did not bill bellichick read something that you wrote is that correct that is correct so i actually put out uh it was 60 books that I sent to every head coach and GM was Greg Rosenthal University's law school. I was at Tulane. I was an unpaid intern for the Saints, and I was very lucky guys.

The first year and a half that I was in the NFL, I was an unpaid intern, the salary cap came in. I just took notes and sort of had observations about how to build a team in the salary cap era. I got 59 rejection letters, and Mike Lombardi and Bill Belichick hired me in Cleveland for the 95 season. and I still have all the other rejection layers.

I still have, like, my original binder as embarrassing as some of my thoughts were. I think what Coach Belichick, though, was what's interesting, wasn't the fact that he hired me, was the fact that he hired somebody that he thought could give them a competitive advantage, knowing that the salary cap was going to be an important part of team building. And I love that. I love that backstory. And you were there just a couple years after Bill Belichick parted ways with Bernie Kozar,

which set the city on fire. I mean, you go to New England right now, and it just feels like the end. energy between Bill Belichick and Mack Jones has been off for a year. Plus, we all know what happened last off season. Today, as we talk to you, Will Levis is in there visiting. There just seems to be interest potentially that New England would look for a different solution to quarterback. Do you think that knowing what you do about Belichick, is there a possibility that there's levers being pulled here in a month from now? Mac Jones is just somewhere else.

Yes, and I would not do that if I was them. But Coach Belichick, would absolutely, he is beholden to one thing, in his mind, the absolute truth. The standards are the standards and the best players will play. I think Mack Jones is a good NFL quarterback. Look, we could argue if he's top 10 or 16, but he's a good player. He took his team to the playoffs in year one, which is hard to do. And look, I don't think there's a super high ceiling, but I don't think this team is as far away. They have a great defense.

Their offensive line, in my opinion, isn't what it once was under Dante Scarnicchio. But if they can get maybe another weapon or two, people that can run. I don't think Smith-Schuster changes what they are in offense. I still think they're pedestrian. If they can fix that, the offensive line, and hopefully another weapon, I think they could be right in the mix as one of the seven best teams in the AFC. Man, how would they even do that? That's a tricky one because if you can't get him traded and then he's your presumptive starting quarterback,

you have to manage that. I'm thinking back when the Jets once went after Peyton Manning and then Mark Sanchez was still there. Like, it's a lot. What do you think Mac Jones? I'm surprised even thinking about this, but what do you think he would cost? Like, what would you give up?

If you were a team that needed a quarterback right now, what do you think Mac Jones could get for you? Probably a second or third round pick. You know, he's a solid quarterback. And again, like context is everything here, guys. If you don't have a quarterback, Mac Jones looks really good. Now, I think where he falls behind is I don't see the athleticism that all the other quarterbacks that are playing at a high level in the AFC.

Like, let's put two aside because the injuries, but when you talk about Josh Allen, presumptively, Anna Rogers, Burrow, Mahomes, Herbert, it's just, you know, Lamar. It's just one after the other, these guys are young, they're athletic, and they can really stress the defense because not what they could just do with their arm, but with their feet. And that's what's missing in Mack Jones's game. Now, with that said, I think they go 12. personnel with Hunter, Henry, and Gaseki, and that can make a big difference. And Ramadri Stevenson, to me, is in a really effective runner. So what they're missing is maybe one more player that's fast, one more really solid offense alignment.

And then I think they could win a whole bunch of games, but I don't think this is helping Mack Jones. You know, I think what's hard for them is this guys, there was a lot of things that were really special about Timebury. That's obvious. But part of it is like rare mental toughness and resilience in the form of the years of his career and mac jones may not just have those like superpowers and somebody in his ecosystem is saying like hey did you see this rumor and that rumor and you know we all say the

same thing in this industry like oh we don't read anything and it doesn't bother like you know that's bullshit like everyone reads everything and i'm sure it does impact them so um and but knowing bill b i don't think that would that's not going to stop him from doing what he thinks it's right for his team um i want to go above the tree tops again here Mike, is somebody that has, you know, such experience running front offices, how do, let's call them external factors affect your decision-making potentially? If you're a GM who knows you're in a position where it's kind of a playoff or bust year, does that make you potentially more aggressive to take a big swing?

Or would that maybe put you in a position to go a little more meat and potatoes and be a little more conservative? Like, you've been on both sides of it. Like, does it change as it's human nature? Does it change how you approach a draft your personal job security within an organization? Yeah, look, it's a totally fair question. Look, I was able to do it for a long time over 20 years. And what really served me well was like what's always best for the organization. And if we sort of use that as a grounded temple as we make decisions, like that's going to lead to more right decisions than wrong.

And you hope that, you know, your boss beat Steve Ross, Lee Johnson, whomever, isn't going to make a decision. outcome determinative on any one pick. And that typically will lead you to the right decisions. And candidly, like, it's other people you're worried about more so than yourself. There's a lot of people whose, you know, families and kids and jobs, like, depend on the performance of the organization. And I always worried more about them than myself. And I always thought, like, if we just bring in really good players that are high character that love football, we'll get more decisions right than wrong. And usually that took care of itself. It's fair.

You drafted Derell Revis once. Do you have a cornerback in this draft that you like the most? Devin Withers, well, it's funny. There's one in one A here. Like Witherspoon is a lot like Antoine Winfield Senior. And I hate saying that because it makes me feel so old. But Antoine Winfield was one of my favorite players, like the late great John Butler. When they drafted Antoine Winfield at the bills, I saw that again.

I'm like, man, that was a great pick. He's like, well, we only drafted him to cover Corbett. I was like, oh, man, that hurts. And when you look at Witherspoon, he's from the Panhandle, wasn't highly recruited, has a massive chip on a shoulder, and he's playing linebacker in a corner body. Like he loves to tackle, he loves to run support. Christian Gonzalez was, you know, out of Colorado, transferred to Oregon, and he has more of an elegance about him. And he's a great, great athlete with great hips. Isn't the physical player that Witherspoon is, but I think they'll both play for a long time.

But, like, a guy like Witherspoon to me, like, I don't think he'll make it this far, but, like, I think he is a Pittsburgh stealer because I think he's tougher than tough. And I just see him, like, thriving with a guy like Mike Tomlin. I wonder where you come in on the running back thing, because I think about the 2009 Jets and how you guys just went as far as you did by hammering people in cold weather, completely destroying their will. And there's someone like Bejohn Robbins is sitting out there. And it's like, oh, it's a running back and you might only get four or five great years out of this great player. Well, that sounds like a pretty good first round pick, relatively speaking, to begin with. But how high, like, depending where you were, how high would you say, this is our guy and I'll defend it till the end? How high in the first round?

Yeah, you know what's really interesting? I had a chance to sit down with Tom Herman a couple weeks ago. He's now the head coach at FAU in Boca Raton and told me a really interesting story. He said, you know, as a play caller, if we thought that there was an automatic check at Texas where if he was in the slot and they thought it was man to man, like that's where they were going. There was nobody that could cover him one-on-one. And I think what's like a little unfair for Bijan is like, you almost hate to say guys,

but like there's almost a stigma of like, oh, you play running back. And if you take like the position off of him and think of him as an offensive weapon, he's one of the clearly 10 to 12 best football players in this draft. So to me, if you have like a plan for him, especially out of the backfield, a little bit like a McCaffrey, a Cameratite,

I think he's a top 15 player. and there's a couple teams like Buffalo and Dallas in particular or two teams. Like I'm really curious, like, do they maybe try to trade up for him? Because I think those are two teams that would really benefit with his skills. Not just running the ball guys. Like, again, like you see it on tape. But boy, like talking to Tom Herman guys, like it's amazing, like confidence they had him as a route runner and his hands and his ability to adjust to the ball. Mike, thank you so much for joining us.

Before we let you go, I'd want to ask you something non-draft related. The old heads know, the OGs that have been following the Hard Knocks franchise for years, know that it's very difficult to top the 2010 Jets Hard Knocks season. Shout out Roscoe Diner, shout out Mike T, trying to catch as many puns as he could in his arms. Where do you come down on these teams being so openly out on Hard Knocks? I'll point out of Bear's CEO, George McCasky, who kind of went out of his way to say, don't pick us. Did you find it to be something that was a legitimate distraction?

Or is this just these teams are getting their tidy whiteies in a bunch for no reason? I'd say both guys. So let me tell you a story. We were like a finalist for the 09 year. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, we're not doing this. And everybody else wanted to do it except for me. And then after like to think about for quite a while guys, Ozzie Newsom, who I have a ton of respect for a longtime GM of the Ravens and great player,

he made a really interesting comment. He talked about how they got better practices because when players know that the cameras are on them actually get better efforts. And that really, like, changed my opinion of it. And then NFL films, you know, the institution guys is just a really, really special. Like when they talk about like confidentiality

and, you know, things won't get out that are going to embarrass you, they really mean it. So it was tremendous for our franchise. We obviously had a great year. Went to the championship game. Despite me losing hair, gaining weight, dropping punts, not signing our best player. You know, beyond that, it was really good.

Very good. You did get it done. In fact, the greatest ending to any hard-knock season. And as a Jets fan, this might seem biased. But it's Daryl Rivas coming on to the practice field with the teammates mobbing him after that saga that played out. And Mike T got it done. And he continues to get it done just in a different capacity. Thank you, Mr. T.

Thanks, Mike. Thank you. thanks so much guys really appreciate it all right there he goes yeah george mccaskey the quote was um there are a number of teams that have compelling stories to tell on hard knocks and then a reporter asks that are not the bears and he said 31 others i don't know what it is it i don't get it i think who needs more juice than the bears come out and get out there at least half the teams around the league could use i typically look at like i think things can go south because i can think of like the Hugh Jackson scenario where him in a room or bossing his other assistants around looked

bad and it stuck with him. But in general, like, how most of what comes out about these teams is positive stories and getting to know people better. And like, you can't hide stuff now anyways. Why not like go and have NFL films do the best job they can with it? Right. It almost seems like a lack of confidence. Like, we're so afraid that like they're going to expose that we're actually just, there's

nothing behind the curtain. and how about be like the lions and be proud of who you are and America falls in love with you. And I love that Ozzy theory. That's, I think he nailed it. If there are 100 cameras watching and you could be the focus of a segment, you're probably going to bust your ass just that much harder. Just how humans work a little bit, I think.

I mean, and to Mike's point about them relatively from them taking care of you ultimately, I mean, they were just following the Cardinals every week during. Oh, they protected the Cardinals. One of the most disastrous seasons anyone's had in a while. I wish we had made it through an episode without bagging on the Cardinals. I'm sorry. But all I mean is, like, actually, I watched most of those, and I did see some positive things out of the Cardinals that were genuine,

and I thought higher of some of the people in that building because of that. And, yeah, there was other stuff on the side. Are we visiting the Cardinals' Nest? I'm advanced Joseph. Uh-oh. Not again. Um Um

Tough Sitch Not good for birds Not good, not good. Um, all right. So, another week in the books for around the NFL. Next time you hear from us, it will be draft week. What do we got coming up? We got a show on Monday.

We haven't figured that one out yet, but we will. Wednesday we got figured out it's the Mark Sessler mock draft eagerly awaited and also I guess will we are we going to roll out the Graver mock competition as well

I don't know we'll have to figure that we'll figure that out could have dueling days but I would invite him to come I'm not unlike the McCaskies and the bears I invite the competition and the camaraderie very good I love that outlook on things Thursday we got you a double header of good

We have the first ever live stream of round one of the draft. And immediately following that, we'll come to this studio right here and record the round one recap. And then after, you know, we reset on Friday, tracking the draft as we do, Saturday night. We recap the rest of the draft and any other big thoughts on the league that is the NFL. I think you've said it.

Little winners and losers usually on that Saturday. We usually do that. We hit those winners. and losers. All right. Anything else? I like your new shirt, you know. It's a golf shirt.

Took this golfing in Vegas with the buddies. Fancy golf. It's like Aqua Military. It's nice. Check us out on YouTube. Aqua Cammo. He the call. This is an I-heart podcast.