NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Favorite NFL Rivalries and Aaron Rodgers' New Contract

Episode Date: July 27, 2023

In a room filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Marc Sessler and Patrick Claybon put an ATN spin on their favorite NFL rivalries. Before they get into the rivalries, the guys talk aliens (01:16), Aaron Rodgers' new contract (08:40), Sean Payton's WILD comments about the Jets (19:30) Jim Irsay's comments on the running back drama (25:38), and more! After the break, the heroes give you their opinion on Netflix's new series "Quarterback" (31:09). Finally, the guys talk rivalries that include Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow (48:30), Las Vegas and the league (01:00:12) and Bill Belichick and Andy Reid (01:11:25).   Note: Time codes approximate.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast are most definitely humans. From the Chris Wesleying podcast studio, it is Around the NFL. I am Dan Hansis. I got heroes all up in this place. Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sessler, and the return of Patrick Claibon. Hey, Pat. What's up, man?

How are you guys? Good. What's the reference with the human business? Well, I'm a little bit, I think it's a perfect episode for Patrick because I think Claibon, one of the things that makes them great on Mike and just an interesting fellow is, you know, he'll be a bit of a naysayer on things. He'll say this take is something people need to calm down about. Now let's talk about what's going on here in the world because I don't think it's being talked about enough right now.

Okay? And look at Patrick's reaction. He's got takes that are going to be fine. I think I know where we're going. In that beautiful mouth in just a couple of minutes. That took it to a place. You ever hear that meme out there? The Simpsons predicted it?

Yeah, I've seen some things up that alley. How about hashtag ATN predicted it? This is a drop that was cultivated years ago. in peace. They seem friendly. I say we trust them. How great for our planet. Is it great?

What we thought. Man, I missed the throne of Siles. That was some good heat. And then, and then, this just happened. You say that the government is in possession of potentially non-human spacecraft. Based on your experience and extensive conversations with experts, do you believe our government has made contact with intelligent extraterrestrials? Something I can't discuss in public setting.

Okay, I can't ask when you think this occurred. If you believe we have crashed craft stated earlier, do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft? As I've stated publicly already in my News Nation interview, biologics came with some of these recoveries, yeah. Are they, I guess, human or non-human biologics? Ask it, got it. Non-human, and that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the program I talked to that are currently still on the program.

Hello? Hello? Hello? And then, tugboat this morning, as I do, I wake up, and I went to check New York Times, and I was like, obviously this is a major story. Right. This was David Grosch testified under oath that the U.S. government has. has recovered non-human biological remains from the crash site of unidentified craft. Made that revelation during questions from South Carolina's U.S. rep Nancy Mason at Oversight Committee Hearing.

I couldn't even find it on the Times, okay? The Grey Lady, the paper of record. So what's going on? It's a cover-up, Claibon. What do you got? Because I feel like you're exploding to get a take out there, probably to take down the whole thing. No, I mean, it was the same take I had yesterday. So we have a person who has given some interviews and said some things.

And then instead of answering the question, he references the interviews because he's under oath, right? If you want to talk about, like, a non-human biologic being on a craft, that could literally be a paper airplane with an ant on it. Oh, Patrick. Like, he didn't specifically say that these were extraterrestrial organisms. Why got to be so Claibon about this? Because. Come on a journey. So, again, the thing that.

What's the story with this guy? I have to admit, I've not, I've learned everything about this story. That's what the government wants to do. Greg is scanning the Washington Post for this. I haven't been, no, I'm scanning who the guy is on Wikipedia. If the government was so motivated to stop this, would he have been able to say this in the first place? I just, I don't know.

I'd say my antenna is up a little bit on this story. Well, I knew yours would be. But even beyond, like, Mark and conspiracy theories and otherworldly things, I mean, and I have a cousin, Big Dog, who's way into aliens and has been for years. He said he spotted one right above his pool, his father's pool. A craft or a biologic. And I said, do you get the camera out?

He said, now we were in the pool. Of course. But I believe him, too. Something's happening here. I believe your cousin more than I believe this particular person, based on the way that they approached this. I did see our friend Jason Zumwalt was asking for an apology for anyone who's ever doubted the existence of extraterrestrial being

and I had no context for it because you're right I guess this story has been buried I think the sound drop though is in reference to the woman on the plane who was convinced that someone else on the plane was not a human and I looked at Mark at that time and he looked skeptical even just assuming that we're all humans here

you didn't seem to be accepting that as a truth this thumb drop actually came in when Greg made a reference like these players are human So this has been holstered for a bit, and it just kind of worked. Although it works on this level, too. It works on multiple levels, like any good Zumwell drop. And not for nothing. Descartes, are to my right?

Kind of a classic alien move to be like, oh, it could be an ant on a paper airplane. Classic alien move in hiding. If I had evidence of extraterrestrial intelligent life and somebody asked about it, I would answer the question. I mean, unless there could be repercussions to. Well, it's only a repercussions if you're lying, right? Yeah, if there's repercussions, then why would he be there in the first place?

Or if you're telling the truth. All right, let's stick a pin in it. If you want people to know, tell everybody, like, Mr. Alien Man, like, don't go on News Nation. I think, like, maybe he doesn't feel safe because this is that big. You know what I mean? It's not a small story if it's true. It's a large story, and it's going to, I mean, it's still, like, we'll still be talking about Patrick Mahomes all the next three months, but. Oh, Barbenheimer.

It's like, how about what? check out what's happening in these hearings. We're not silenced in this on ATN. We're ready for the discussion. We're not a part of anything. We're leading the show with it. Yeah. Exactly.

That was important to lead the show. If you want a being to believe a society has developed technology to travel faster than the speed of light, they came all the way to Earth. And they're like, oh, no, the carburetor. And then they, like, struggle in our atmosphere. Like, go for it. I knew you were going to do this. I knew it. It's logical.

They figured everything out except oxygen. They're like, whoa, what is this? Like, ah, this is too much. Gravity? Oh, God. Mark. I believe. I tend to, I'm open-minded, I'd say vastly open-minded to the concept.

And I feel like you're not even, you're close-minded to anyone that's closed-minded. I mean, I feel like you're in. You're in. You don't like it if someone else is closed-minded. I would say, I'm not, like, I think there's a lot of stuff out there in the past that is a little Fugazi in terms of people wanting to project false ideas and stuff, but like, do the idea that we're the only thing that's in the entire universe is absurd to me.

Yeah, and I'm definitely not saying that. Yeah, I mean, I'm with you there. I just, I'll get off the fence, Rosenthal. I listen to what that guy said, and I don't believe that guy. That's all I'm saying. There's an issue with that. Well, that's your right. And you nod your head in agreement, Greg,

but you don't know about that because they've been hiding this story in this hearing. We've got to, we've all seen it. Why didn't it gets to Wapo, like Greg's in. The conspiracy runs deep. I like to see that you're open-minded, Dan. I thought maybe you'd be on the other side. No way.

And think about that, because usually this would be something you would think that I would poo-poo. Right. But the fact that Zusser is on us. Yep. Got Daddy Rich in the corner. Can't convince you that Lee R.V. Oswald might have had a little help, but on this front, you're...

It had a great angle from the sixth floor. Dan says he was built different. He had momentum. He was cooking that day. It's like tweets from 1969. I mean, terrible what happened in Dallas. Sure. It was an assassin that had a good day.

Officially tracked as like a terrible shot in the Marines, but that's fine. Suddenly, I'm sure he worked on it in his spare time. It happens. Blonde squirrel. Blonde squirrel. All right, let's get to the news. This is even crazier, I think, than what we just talked about.

Aaron Rogers and the Jets agreed to a new two-year $75 million guaranteed contract running through next year. Pellraiser had this. Rogers is taking, can I just tell you how weird the last few months have been as a Jets been? And I'm waiting for the football to get pulled out while also being more optimistic than I've ever been about an incoming season. season. It's very, I'm very, you know, it's clashing, obviously, internally. But everything that's come out has been good news. And this is the latest good news. Rogers took a pay cut of roughly $35 million. And just to put that in perspective, Sequin Barclay just signed that Fugazi deal with the Giants who wouldn't play ball for him, trying to get an extra million. Like, he's just like,

I'm going to give up the rights to get this franchise tag used on me this year. So maybe I could hit incentives that get me an extra mill and get me to 11. Rogers took a pay cut of roughly 35 million as this previous deal had nearly 110 million guaranteed remaining per Pelliserro. And a lot of the money is, comes due next season, which is Rogers, more reason to play a second season, which alleviates some other. Here's Aaron Rogers talking a little bit about his situation. The team gave up significant pieces for just to be a one-year deal. I'm aware of that. I think there was, you know, an awareness of that.

Now, again, anything can happen with my body or with the success we have this year. But I'm having a blast, so I don't really see this as a one-year-and-done thing. Mark, part of this feels like the biggest setup of all time for Jets fans, because right now it's like everything seems great. And then we learn a day later that Davin Cook is visiting with the team, and they could be very close on a deal, and they have all this extra money now laying around. It's wild. Yeah, I mean, this happened right after we wrapped yesterday's episode.

And in that episode, we were praising Justin Herbert for taking just a little bit less than he might have in his deal. And then this came out, and I read this while driving and nearly went off the highway because I don't, there's no experience like this where a player took this kind of a haircut, a chop. Has this ever happened? No, no, I know. But it's also, I think it's just, to your point, like, I'm finding it, it's a chore to be cynical about the Jets. and I've long been cynical about... Sean Payton will disagree. Yeah, well, that's fine.

I've long been cynical about Aaron Rogers, and I'm struggling with that. And it's like, we're months removed from, like, everyone poking fun at him for going, you know, into a dark cubby below Earth. But he came out happier than ever. And with a healthy disdain for materialism that completely helps and changes the Jets next two seasons.

So what's not to like about this? It was so surprising that, you know, my immediate reaction was confusion and trying to find out, what are the details? Because this doesn't make... Like, is it fake? Is it one of those? Yeah, is there more to the story?

It's like Woody Johnson offering like a wink, wink, not, not. Hey, you want to get into Big Pharma? It's nice on the other side. Like, I don't know. And so I did some research trying to like figure it out because you asked if it ever happened before. Drew Brees took a pretty significant pickup very late in his career when he didn't have to with guaranteed money.

His play was declining in a way that Rogers was. And it wasn't this big over two years. So that's the only thing that would be even close. And I did some research. And one thing I didn't realize is he actually gave up the guaranteed money for 2024, which was 47 million, most of this really. Actually, back in April or May when this thing happened, no one noticed. When they restructured it back then, actually, he had already given up the 2024 guaranteed money, which I did find some analysis at the time the few people that did it and they were like really surprised because actually was

really surprising back then too my I mean my takeaway was just like he didn't he didn't have to do this we know that almost certainly he's the plan is he's going to be there two years that's my biggest biggest takeaway and and I it's strange in part this year because like they're not really going to spend that money this year so it's not just about helping the the jets it's I don't know. I am sort of at a loss, at a loss on it. It's about spiting the Packers. A little. Packers have a bigger cap hit than the Jets this year.

Aaron Rod. Do you think so? I do think, I do think it's like, I don't think it's just simply that, but I agree with you, Patrick, that it's trying, I think, like, to set the table for a couple things, because to your point, Dan, like, if the whole season goes south, and he's making that much money, and they gave up assets for him, and you don't get the version of Aaron Rogers that you thought

you would, I mean, it will turn so ugly. But there's so much goodwill right now that even if it takes till next season for everything to kind of gel, there's more patience around it. And I do think it's a, hey, Green Bay, you kept twisting and twisting the knife. And now I'm somewhere where I'm happy and I'm refreshed. And this is the version of me. But he got all that guaranteed money from then. He also squeezed the knife to get that three-year, 150 million dollars, first player ever. And I think that was more than the money. It was like, it's a disrespect that. Like, the Jets are like, we're all in on you. He's all in

on them. And in that, it kind of, the Packers kind of get it both ways from, like, my question would be, like, how somebody who was going through a contract situation with the Packers in that time frame might feel about, like, how does Devante feel about this circumstance?

But, like, because I was looking at Spotrak, SpotRack, I don't know how to say it, shout out to the dude, but it was a 40.3 dead cap hit for the Packers, and he's just going to account for 26 million combined over the next two years for the Jets. and it's going to help them planning their 2024 season no doubt like i don't i don't know what

other explanation there is like unless aaron has just decided like to forego worldliness well he's also made i mean 37 million he's made a ton of money and how much money do you do you need but how did they get to that number how did it even no kid go there you know kids are expensive they can be god anyway um i mentioned davin cook uh the running back uh dan the light just went out in his eyes briefly. I've been solo dadding it this week and it's starting to pile up a little bit. Running back, Dalmatook is flying to New York

today, Thursday to visit with the Jets this weekend. Pell-Rays are reported since Dalman Cook's release from Minnesota. The Jets have been one club rumored to be interested in the four-time Hall pro, Brees Hall. On the Pupp list right now, they think the world of Hall in terms of his future, but things are a little murky right now

coming off the ACL tear. So it makes a lot of sense to me. That would just pump up expectations and excitement. Even more, Greg, there's a rival in the AFCs that also is in play here potentially. Yeah, the Patriots are also reportedly in the mix. So Devante Adams might be kind of being like wondering

what's up with that Aaron Rogers conjure. But Dalvin Cook's loving it. They got a little extra money. Now there's a couple teams bidding for them. And I have an assignment this month of the 2024 free agents, starting the early list on that. And one thing that's not helping these running backs, I realize this year and thinking long term,

is the outrageous free agent class next year of running backs. Like everyone's up. I think that's part of the reason it's down. Sequin, Jonathan Taylor, Josh Jacobs, Austin Echler, Derek Henry, J.K. Dobbins, A.J. Dillon, Tony Pollard. I could go on. So it's like, that's partly why running backs haven't been paid, but maybe Dalvin Cook could be the exception now. Let's, because this is kind of connected to the Jets, let's talk about Sean Peyton, who, man, Sean Payton's feeling good. He spoke with USA Today, and he was in a chatty mood.

He was a real chatty Kathy. Jarrett Bell will give him the pop here. He did the conversation and then wrote a fairly explosive story. Here are the details. Peyton called the work Nathaniel Hackett, who's now the OC of the Jets, and close to Aaron Rogers, kind of helped lead to that situation coming together in Jersey. But Peyton called the work of Hackett and his staff. what they did with the 2022 Broncos, quote,

one of the worst coaching jobs in history of the NFL. Is this something that ever happens either? This coach on coach violence and said there were, quote, 20 dirty hands around quarterback Russell Wilson's career worst season when he led the league to 55 sacks through just 16 touchdown passes. The team cratered, obviously. And Peyton summed up the experience of what happened last year to this year. everything I heard about last season,

we're doing the opposite. Hamina, I'm gonna, Gregi. Like I said, you don't usually see coaches go after each other. Peyton does also mention he doesn't even know hack it, which made it easier, I'm sure, to fire off these shots. Very interesting. Yeah, he says it doesn't happen often where an NFL team organization gets embarrassed. And that's what happened here.

He said they spent so much effing time trying to win the off season, the PR, the pomp, and the circumstances. marching people around and all this stuff, which I got to say we kind of got on them last last season about as well. We were very big. We pointed out that Hackett was in awe of Russell Wilson in that opening press conference. It seemed a little bit weird.

Well, it was entertaining, but then it became very non-intertaining. There was like a three, you know, and it was great that we got this access, but there was an interview on NFL Network, a couple weeks into the season with Hackett and Wilson together where it was like, this is how we all came together. And they were just not reading the temperature. Russell Wilson.

At that point, it was already going down. Very exciting. I love this, though. Like, it reminds me of another Peyton story this off season. I don't know if you saw that video that went around. Around the draft, he was, yeah. His hands were full. I'm just saying, when have I said some of the things that I regret the most in my life?

When are my words a little looser than others? Maybe like the real deal, even a little like harder-ed, cynical words come out. Sometimes it's in that situation. So I'm not, I'm just connecting dots here. Maybe, maybe, maybe you can connect them. You think during this interview that maybe. I mean, I have, it's a little loose. It's a tug and cheek, but yes, yes.

Have you ever been to Denver, Colorado? That's what I'm saying. Sometimes, like, the truth or maybe even worse than the truth comes out where you're just trying to, like, like, bury people. I don't know. I don't know that it's that spicy. I feel like the things that he said. Can I give you a little bit more?

Yeah, give me the spiciest one. All right. So then after all that, and then he direct. Beckley goes after another team, which is the Jets, which is, by the way, and probably not a coincidence where Hackett is now. He mentioned, like, we're not marching around people and all this stuff. We're not doing any of that. The Jets did that this year.

You watch, hard knocks, all of it. I can see it coming. This is where he really started, like, he's rolling. He's like, I'm about a roll. Before we get Claibon slots, let's hear. Robert Sala, obviously, he meets with the press at training camp in Florin Park, and he's asked about his team getting buried. by Peyton somewhere in Colorado.

Well, I'm not going to acknowledge Sean on that. He's been in the league a while. He can say whatever the hell he wants. But as far as, you know, what we have going on here, it's, you know, the, I kind of live by saying, if you ain't got no haters, you ain't popping. So hate away. Oh, yeah.

Something right if you got to talk about us when we don't play it until week four. Oh, they're playing. You know, but week five. You know, the guys in the locker room, they've earned everything that's coming to them. and really excited about what's going on. I think Hackett's doing a phenomenal job here.

The coaching staff is doing a phenomenal job, and we're focused on us. I get it. There's a lot of external noise. There's a lot of people who are hating on us. There's a lot of people looking for us to fail. There's a lot of crows pecking at our neck. But all you can do is spread your wings,

keep flying high until those crows fall off and suffocate from the inability to breathe. Whoa. Well, my name's Papa. By the way, this is the coach that didn't want to be on hard knocks. It's going to be like one of the better hard knocks. soliloquies of all time right there. You can hear the Hard Knocks music going under.

Yeah, exactly. Patrick, your thoughts? That was, wasn't all this the reason that Coach Sala didn't want to do Hard Knocks? That is wild. He was kind of like. He was kind of on Peyton's corner. He didn't want to do it. He was like a distraction truther about like the way this. And so Sean Payton's saying what Robert Sala initially said before Hard Knocks.

Like he just mentioned the Jets and like the conversation around. Sean was very loose and he was shooting from the hip, it seems. I don't think he said like Robert Sala and the Jets. are going to do a bad job or anything. Like, he believes in this, I guess, myth that, like, you watch, he said, makes you play bad or something? Like, I love this phrase, marching people around and all this stuff. He says, you watch, I can see it coming.

He's saying the Jets are going to flop this year because of the things that they're doing. I think, I think part of it, because, you know, Sean Payton, who was a pupil of Bill Parcells, who was a master of this kind of stuff, part of it is, like, he's looking at a locker room in which Russell Wilson essentially lost the team a year ago. I mean, beyond all the fire of what he's saying, I think he's trying to reset the table and be like,

we've got to believe in our quarterback a little bit. There are reasons beyond Russell Wilson that this team was an epic disaster last year. And I think from a coaching angle, he saw malfeasance, just an absolute loss of responsibility. And when we watch the Broncos, I mean, literally, that stadium was booing them

because of time management. Peyton mentions that too. They had more pre-snap penalties and fractions. they couldn't even get a play in all that was true i mean he's just saying that's all over now crazy that Peyton i mean he's a guy that's very confident in himself and is known as kind of a dude that will you know not afraid to stick his chest out it's in that old parcels mode that you'd be so public about it but i think maybe he's trying to rebrand the broncos after a very humbling year and i don't hate on it i just would you know

now it's pretty wild yeah like we're doing uh you know fun NFL rivalries later i mean Broncos Jets is now on my list. Spicy. Peyton, Salah. By the way, Sala would kill Peyton in a physical battle. Week five. That's true. At midfield, I would love that. Peyton's giving me, like, late career parcels with the cowboys and then dolphins' vibes, except, like, he goes out and has fun and doesn't seem, like, miserable off the field.

It's an exciting combination. Like, that's the thing, though. And that's why, like, I point out, like, the whole distraction, truth or thing doesn't mean anything. Because, like, Sean Payton has been at the center of so many distractions. Yeah. Like, Sean Payton had a biopic two years ago. Like, he knows that this whole, like, oh, people paying attention makes you bad. Like, no, like, Sean Payton knows that you execute, you put guys in the right situation.

You're going to win football game. And he just likes doing this. And Bill Parcells loved attention, too. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Remember, even when Sean Payton was forced out of the league by Bountygate, he made sure there was a giant poster of Sean Payton's face in the practice bubble in that ensuing season with the script, do your job underneath. Even then, he was like, this is going to be about me. He likes it. I mean, these are not.

I was signed up for it in part. Right. These are not ego-free individuals. These are not, you know, they're external power-based ego-heavy dudes who like, I think this is, I love that it's July 27th, and this is the kind of spice. Yes. And I don't want to hear. I saw some things like, has this ever happened where coaches come and at each other and stuff?

And it's like, I can't think of anything recently. But when you read the old, like, historic football books, like, they used to go at each there's so much more because it didn't get as much attention where they would be talking trash like crazy about other teams players other teams coaches coaches going at each other let's bring that back i may have one for you during our segment oh good oh and i guess that reminded me of this just to put a bow on it having seen nathaniel hackett with his two daughters leaving las Vegas after he took them to the taylor swift show kind of feel bad for him yeah well he's getting you're just absolutely he just started to like restart his career yeah and and you got this

Goon and Denver just bringing it back up and dragging him through the mud. Just like us, we woke up and learned that these quotes were available to the public, and so did he. And it got to have ruined his morning. Hackett's like, what are they? Like, he's checking Rotterworld. He's like, what, they change the site? What, like, which one is the player new?

Wait, and what did they say? Like, who's that on the grassy? No. Oh, my God, is Sean Payton? I don't even know him. He's also reading that at his job, you know, that he has. And there's plenty of coaches that did not have all. all of these things happen, and they are currently not employed.

He's definitely more upset about the rebranding of Roto World, which has been confusing for all of us. We're working through it. Jim Urse, another guy who likes to talk, the owner of the cults, all the drama about running backs, not getting their due, running backs doing text chains, running backs doing Zoom meetings, running backs leaving their teams without signing their franchise tag. And Ersei is like, what?

even his own running back Jonathan Taylor has been very vocal about wanting a new deal and Ursay had this to say of the big storyline we have negotiated a CBA that took years of effort and hard work and compromise

in good faith by both sides Urse wrote Wednesday in social media to say now that a specific player category wants another negotiation after the fact is inappropriate some agents are selling bad faith. Greg, do you agree? no because CBAs are changed on the fly I just teed you up to destroy agents again

this one I'm on the agent's side I guess I mean I think he was responding not to Jonathan Taylor's specific situation but Jonathan Taylor has been vocal he seems as upset with his contract situation as any running back out there and so that's that's part of this but I actually think Ursae was responding to Najee Harris spoke about that maybe they could adjust the way the franchise tag for running backs. And adjustments do happen to the CBA actually before they re-sign the whole thing. So the idea that they're bringing this up as a potential solution is definitely not inappropriate. And I think Erse just needs to work. Like he's never that, his tweets are never clear. He needs someone, he needs an editor. Well, he used to always reference

his administrative assistant to reach out and, you know, do trivia and all. all this stuff with her. This, like the whole running back situation, I'm starting to get, the topic is starting to become tiresome because there's nothing new to say about it. It starts to make me, I just feel like they may be, they need to find a way to truly make a difference because it's like, you know, there were once a bunch of angry British people who decided to leave England for the new world. Like, what if every running back banded together and say, we're out of here? Like every running back leaves every roster. And it's like, go play a football season with no running backs. Let's see how that works. Yeah, it's, do they have the power and capability to do that? Like, unfortunately, well, just don't show up to work. For Jonathan Taylor, for Sequin Barclay, like, the solution to all of these things aren't going to happen in the span of their careers, right? Yeah. Like, the rookie wage scale went in in 2011.

Like, Jonathan Taylor may have been 13 years old at that point. Like, these things happen on these giant glacial timeframes. And so, like, the average length of the NFL career has shortened since that CBA, right? and it continues to get shorter. And if you don't play as long, then you're not going to have as much opportunity over time. And so, like, the most recent CBA, I think, passed by 60 votes. It wasn't like a slam dunk that they got this deal done.

And so, like, that's why I was looking back at Sequin, like, what were his actual options, like, for him in 2023? Right. I think that's what some guys are going to have to ask themselves, because the solutions might not exist while they're still playing. Right. I mentioned all those free agents. this topic is tiresome, I agree, Mark, and it's not going away.

I think it's going to be cranked up next year with all those free agents. I did want to mention Jonathan Taylor's agent responded to that tweet, bad faith is not paying your top offensive player. So this is something where, like, the loose lips, I guess, of Ursa here is creating an actual issue. Even if it's not about his running back, if it's the owner of the cult saying this, of course, Jonathan Taylor's going to be like, huh? And, hey, JT, just so you know, and I like you. I think you have a big bounceback season, perhaps,

coming up, if that ankle is healthy, you're not getting extended because Chris Ballard then followed up the GM of the Colts. We're coming off a four-win season. We have a new coaching staff. So we'll kind of let it play out as it does and make those decisions when we need to make those decisions. So tough sitch, tough sitch. Maybe he should play, have a great season if the Colts make the playoffs.

Maybe Jonathan Taylor should say, all right. See you guys. Peace. It's real. Finally, eight o'clock delight. Greg. Oh, shoot. J.K. Dobbins is on the PUP list, but John Harbaugh and his sneaky John Harbaugh way kind of made it obvious.

It might be a holdout situation that you got to ask JK about it. You're not going to contract anybody. Buda Baker is in camp, got a little extra money, got an incentive, so no hold out there. Good job by you. Cowboy Safety, Donovan Wilson, is out four to six weeks. Ooh, he just got paid too. Jalen Ramsey got carded off the field in Dolphins camp. We don't know too much about that, but it's a little scary.

Yikes. Trey Hendricketray of Saints Feen gets a one-year tacked on to his career. And then John Ross, the number nine overall pick of what draft was that? 2017. Yep. One pick ahead of Patrick Mahomes. You pointed that out. Sorry to take your night.

No, that's okay. She was ready to fire that one. No, that, I mean, that draft had very few wide receivers. He was the only one in the first round. Cooper Cup went in the third, though. Sounds like a classic redraft scenario. it's good first round in general but not for the Bengals

I never did the real redraft on NFL.com always seems fun nice exercise that's what's happening in the news we'll be right back all right

before we get to our conversation piece today which is our favorite rivalries heading into 2023 let's start with as promised long teased Mark, our conversation on the Netflix series quarterback,

the eight-part series, Omaha Productions. It's Peyton Manning. He's the executive producer of this project in conjunction with NFL films. It's kind of on fire. Like he does the podcast at the end quietly. And what is quarterbacks? If you haven't watched it or quarterback,

it is a study of three professional passers in the NFL at different levels in their career. Patrick Mahomes, the great Patrick Mahomes, Kirk Cousins of the Vikings, and Marcus Marriota in his final season with the Falcons. So let's get into it, Mark. Well, all right. So, you know, to be real with you,

I told you that I knew I was on vacation with family last week. Yes. And the minute this started to percolate and everyone's talking about it, I'm getting DMs about this show. I was like, oh, I'm like, just like, well, no, I'm hoping that you guys discussed it while I was gone. because it's like I don't have the bandwidth

to watch eight episodes right now on this vacation or suddenly do it all in one day and I just decided I made this decision well a couple things like I just made the decision at one point I'm not doing it no harm no foul I'm happy for Peyton Manning I'm just not going to do it in this like wave of freedom came over me but I did add it to my list

of you know everyone's these shows that everyone's telling me I have to go watch that I have it's here it's somewhere on this list I will watch quarterback After The Wire, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Big Love, The Shield, Deadwood, Dexter, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Freaks and Geeks, then Quarterback. And I want you to feel free to discuss this wonderful series the way that you wish. So I'm going to heart out of this conversation. But I want to leave you with Connor Orr's comments from a couple days ago about this, because this is what sent me on this journey of not caring.

By the way, later this week, we will offer some of our thoughts about quarterback, the Netflix series that involves Patrick Mahomes prominently. Have you been watching that, Connor? No, because I think 90% of that is just terrible bullshit. It's just like all this stuff about like, oh, inside the mind of a quarterback. Like he memorizes plays and throws the ball. And it's like, yeah, man. and we work hard at what we have to do.

Like, we're all amazing. All right. All right. Mark's leaving the room. It's taken off his head set. Like a big spectacle of himself about this, it seems. He's left the cat computer. He's going to have to come back for the segment.

But for now, the door closes slowly. It's so, like, it was awkward. Is it, I'm sorry, because, again, I was said on the other show, like, I, am I just a goober for being into this content? Is it a cool thing not to watch? to watch this? No, I think it's gotten maybe... Is it edgy to skip out on this? No, I think it's gotten different reactions,

but I think it's got a lot of fans. It's done by NFL film. I sure like them, quarterbacks. I can't watch... I can't wait to watch this show. Did NFL films make it, or they just use the NFL films? It wasn't clear to me.

It has a very... The aesthetic, right? And of course, if you use NFL films footage, it's going to have that. But there's something about it that feels rather hard-nox-ish. I mean, they produced it. one of the three production.

They were definitely part of it. But it's, if, just to give you, because, you know, I was doing some research on it and NFL Films wasn't actively promoting it in the same way that Omaha Productions Twitter handle was promoting. It doesn't really matter. We're in the weeds a little bit. So, but while Mark is taking his break, I, I want to share my thoughts on it because I, I loved it from the perspective of learning more about Mahomes and Cousins.

And I thought that was really interesting. Some of the other stuff, the structure of it was maybe familiar to other programs you've watched in the past. But I think Mahomes, I'll start with Mahomes and I'm curious what you guys think. Like, I found him to be so interesting in how unassuming he is. There's nothing for a guy that has had the level of success and the greatness. There's nothing that feels like mythological about him or awe-inspiring the way he walks, he talks, his stature, the way he carries himself. It's not like there was a moment in that when they get into the AFC title game and they show Burrow walking in and he's all swaggy and he just has this look and this aura about him.

Mahomes to me doesn't have that and yet he goes out there and he is arguably unpaced to be the greatest quarterback ever. So I thought it was kind of cool how to see someone this special be, I don't want to say normal because there's nothing normal about Patrick Mahomes. But it seemed like a relatable regular dude and not it's almost. it was kind of jarring to me to see him not be this bigger than life figure in the context that we get to know him in the show. He carries being Patrick Mahomes pretty lightly

considering how difficult that is, I think, for a lot of people. Like, I don't think a Tom Brady could have invited cameras in at this stage of his career and been comfortable about that. And there's a story how Peyton Manning kind of convinced Mahomes

didn't want to do it, and Manning did it, just thought it would be a really interesting exercise. And I thought about that, because I think I understand why Jalen Hertz would say no. I would understand why anyone would say no. But I can also see why Mahomes is uniquely able to just say yes because like he's so comfortable in his own skin and that he can handle anything because everything is going

on around him. There's he's got his family. He's got his brother is a little bit of a, you know, issue. It's different. Everything's happening. He's got, he's got being Patrick Mahomes. And he carries it all. It's just like, well, of course.

This is what I'm doing, and you're right. I think it gave a good look into that. I haven't finished. I have to admit I have not finished it yet, but I'm... I don't have like a hot take on it. I mean, sometimes you don't have to tweet about something. Mine is like, it's pretty enjoyable watch. It's like a perfect thing to watch while you're like eating lunch.

It's like maybe you're not going to carve out 9 to 10 p.m. to sit and watch it necessarily, but I'm going to get through it because there's enough interesting parts about it. I enjoy it. I think the only, I don't really have a hot take. I think Dan may be expecting you to have one. No, I don't. I don't. I don't know everybody thinks they have. I have a hot take.

No, no. It's just like in the context because I've seen it about. A few criticisms. About all three of these guys. Right. People who generally are very, very critical of Kirk cousins have come away saying, oh, well, you know, I feel better about Kirk now. Well, I think that's what context does.

And it's not like perfect context because this is like produced for these quarterbacks, right? And they do want people to be a part of it. But I think maybe the takeaway some people should have is, well, as good of a job that folks do in NFL media do and as good of the job as the teams do, maybe there is information that I don't necessarily have access to when I'm making judgments about these particular people. And maybe I should be a little more lenient, like the Mario de situation about quitting on the team and all those things. Because I think that's come up a few times where the team always wants you to have surgery on your time, right? Don't have surgery on our time, on the team time. Right. Like a Michael Thomas type situation.

But it's like, well, if I'm looking out for myself and my body, if I'm going to get cut anyway. Yeah. Like, shouldn't I have the surgery now if I want to play next year versus like I'm going to. Oh, I disagree with you guys on that. I think Mariotta, I felt for Marietta a little bit because it was clear and it makes sense. He put all of his eggs in the 2022 Falcons basket.

And he talks about that as the season's beginning and ramping up and they have a little bit of success at the other september and you know he had this golden opportunity to be a starter again this former heisman trophy winner who was a number two overall pick and it hadn't really worked out now here it was out in front of him again and when it goes sideways um you know i i i see they go into the by week and he gets benched during the by week a day after his baby's born and that's an emotional time for anyone um his head coach says listen he there's nothing going out with his knee that has restricted him this season in terms of practice and games. And he just took off and went back to Vegas.

And, you know, you had a young quarterback on that roster that was now becoming the starter. I, it actually surprised me based on basically how I portray saw him in relation to cousins. Mahomes is a guy that maybe the passion is not at the same level. And I was a little surprised that the Eagles then jumped out of him and brought him back in, brought him in there. Even at the end of the last episode, he says, he has a quote where he says, I was really hoping for something West. I was trying to come back closer to home,

but Philadelphia was very supportive. I just don't know if he's like the dude that's really all about ball and leaving that team. It's just, I think, something you don't do, and he did it. I think it's going to be a lot harder for him to get this opportunity if he waits to have surgery four months ago, right? Like if he doesn't do the surgery. What kind of surgery was it?

It was a meniscus surgery. Right. Right. And so, like, we talk about timelines and, like, the severity of surgery. It's still surgery, you know? Like, I don't think people are necessarily doing it for fun. Right. Arthur Smith, I guess, was putting it like he could play through it and then have surgery later.

But he needed. He also left the team. He was just gone. He flew back to Vegas and that was the end of his connection to the Falklands. The big winner is absolutely Kirk Cousins. Like, he just comes across very likable. It's interesting to, like, I haven't watched. whole series, the episode on them playing through pain and they tried to structure in a way where

there were different themes. And I think there were some benefits of that. And there were some negatives. Like one was like the mental side of it. One was like playing through injuries and everything. But you just see how much it means to Kirk Cousins. And he's a very likable person in general. And you see how good, I think, how he communicates with everyone around him. That's something I wouldn't have understood like his his coaches. Kevin O'Connell, but I just love him in general, and he comes off. I like their relationship. Yeah, he comes off really, really good in this, too.

The trick is to what you said earlier, Patrick, is like, it is, it does feel a little infomercially, even more than a hard knocks, I feel like does. Like, it just could have been much shorter. That's all. It's like, I don't need Patrick Mahomes for five minutes at an amusement park playing with it because there's nothing interesting about that. So you're asking someone to watch that, and it's like, there's nothing compelling about that. just a few too many items of that. Just like we're having a barbecue, but like nothing, there's no dynamics within that barbecue that were interesting either.

So it's just like was eight hours? So it's like it could have been three hours. You know, it could have been like four hours or something. Some people might like seeing that more. I like it, but I guess like you could pick and choose because there were parts where they featured their private life that were compelling and interesting. But it was like eight hours is, you know, it's like the whole Godfather series. I saw Floreo said it's immediately the most important and, like, compelling, you know, NFL show there is.

And I would argue. He's a Vikings fan. I would argue against that. Because I don't think it's giving you as, like, real a look as he was kind of cool. But I think it was entertaining, too. I'm not, I'm not pooping on it. I just wish it was a little shorter. In terms of the miced-up stuff on the field, like, we get that.

Like, Films is doing that stuff all the time. And I think it's the best part. Like the O'Connell Cousins interaction during the Bill's game where Kirk is getting beat up. Like Ed Oliver landed on his ribs and his ribs were already bruised and he's having trouble breathing. And O'Connell's like, you okay? He's like, no, I'm hurt. Yeah. That's real.

And there was one where he kind of gets mad at Kirk fritzing out on a play call essentially. And Kirk's kind of audiblying into a sneak that leads to a bad, you know. Yeah. And it was so funny because Kirk was saying his dad scouting report of him. back when Kirk was like a high school player is the same thing now. And even in this show, you can see maybe what prevents Kirk

from being another level. I mean, he's maxed out his career pretty well, but he's so hard on himself. He's always kind of revisiting all the things he does wrong that you almost feel like that. That is a weakness maybe that maybe the greats aren't quite like that. Like he's always beating himself up and sort of revisiting in the moment what he's doing wrong.

Like he can't totally let go and you see that a little bit. Here is cousins looking, he was looking at the, his dad was, I believe he was his coach in high school and sharing kind of an end of the season progress report, which he did for all of his players, including his own son. He said to work on, you need to be a more vocal leader. Your footwork needs to get better. And so it's funny because if you were to give this to a scout on the Vikings right now, they'd probably say that that's pretty accurate for this day. You know, 20 years later, I was 14 when you wrote this. And then he wrote at the end. He said, Kirk, if you keep developing, you could someday be an all-conference and maybe even an all-state player in high school. And I remember when my dad wrote that, and I thought, wow, my dad thinks I could someday be an all-state football player. I mean, that's big time. I remember thinking to be all-state. And what's interesting is I didn't make all-state. I wasn't that good. As I guess as a father of two boys, that gets me a little bit. And I just have some for cousins before we move on. And Mark, you could come back in whenever you want to.

I have so much respect for anyone who could reach the absolute, like, sealing of their potential and maybe even clear it a little bit. Because Cousins doesn't have the greatest size or strongest arm or most athleticism. He isn't, you know, in terms of personality traits, it's not what you say is like what you're looking for necessarily in a franchise QB1. But it's clear and you see it in this series and you see in his production in his career that he works his ass off. He's passionate about what he does. He's tough as hell. He's real. And I think that's one thing you kind of.

this series helped for me see with him like we we kind of see kirk cousins like i see somebody take seriously he's so confident in who he is and even if that's not the archetypal quarterback his players his teammates like him you could tell because they know he's an authentic person literally you know at ease with who he is and i think it's easy to admire him and it just will change mark not that because a lot of those things you mentioned by the way i would watch before this also like the wire for instance my order that's Yeah, yeah. But I feel like, I feel like Big Love was like a little high on the live.

That's a little high. I do like Paxton. Rest in peace. But Cousins, I'm like, I feel like going into a season. This is a nice like pump up primer for the season. And I'm looking forward to following Kirk Cousin's career more now after watching. So, you know, being back to number one, I kind of enjoyed listening to this podcast versus being on it. That was kind of enjoyable.

It could be a range. We wouldn't want that to happen. Right. That could be the end game. But, like, I would say ultimately that the Cousins clip, I mean, yeah, it affects me. It changes how I think about him. But there also was a request from... Maybe not as much as the Deadwood premiere would hit with you, but we don't know yet.

That's why on my list. I still haven't seen Deadwood. That's a good point. There was a request to maybe weigh in just for a minute about selecting his outfits. And there was a series where Kirk Cousins his... A request? From behind the glass. It's like a little bit more...

talk about his clothing and his fashion. His wife picks out his Patagonia stuff. That's fine. Oh, I did. That was one other thing I wanted to share. Shout out to Brittany, Julia, and Keome. Yeah, they all come off.

Nice job. Great job by the wives. No, I heard a different tale about the Mahomes individual. No, I think the families come off really well. I didn't see it, so it's not. Wait, you didn't see it? No. There's a dedicated subset of people that I think because of

Jackson maybe mainly that like Britney's never going to make a comeback in their eyes like it doesn't matter how positive anything portrays them like there's people that I see very supportive and very knowledgeable of his career and like when his injury that guy won the Super Bowl by the way on one leg all right quick program note we are undefeated when it comes to timing about an hour after we taped our Thursday podcast the news came out of Cincinnati that Joe Burrow had suffered a calf injury and was carded to the locker room. As of this time, we don't know how serious the injury is. When we recorded the second part of the podcast, we didn't even know an injury existed because it hadn't happened yet. Freaky, huh? Anyway, we'll have more on the Burroughs situation on our next podcast. But for now, here's a conversation about Burrow, at least in part.

Enjoy. And let me seg now into our conversation on rivalries because let's start with Mahomes and Burrow. Oh, that's good. because that dude, that unassuming all-time quarterback, Patrick Mahomes, his ankle was destroyed against the Jaguars, and he just gutted through the end of that season and beat Trevor Lawrence, then beat Burrow, then beat Jalen Hertz and his dream season, doing it on one leg. And I found it so interesting when Burrow and the Bengals beat the Chiefs earlier in the season. and was it the third time they'd be they beat them in the afc title game the year before three in a row three in a row and you had all that stuff about burrow head and joe burrow owns the chiefs and patrick owns it's his time to step down and it's burrow's time and i was part of that chorus uh in january saying this is burrow's year and then what does mahomes do on one leg he finds away and wins that game and then wins the super bowl um but it also reminded me they did play it and quarterback can we get that Travis kelsey who deserves a medal for this i don't I don't know, just like a gold medal for the post-game presser immediately after the AFC title game.

And as well as just great television, amped up this robbery even more. Yeah, I mean, first of all, I want to thank God, man. Burrow had my ass. It's my home's house. Love it. Right before that interview with Tracy Wilson of CBS, and you saw this on quarterback. Mahomes and Burrow after the game and Holmes is repeatedly saying many more, Doug. I think it is.

I think this is the best rivalry since Peyton and Brady. And just this week, Reggie, uh, for the desert heads out there, uh, Burrough surpassed Mahomes. Um, he's now plus 600 for, uh, to win NFL MVP over Mahomes at 650. And it's just like the two guys that are seen as the best quarterback. I would take that my home's number every year. year. So would I. Yes.

Including last year, by the way. You guys got on me for picking them as MVP before the year. Congratulations on that. Anyway, so they've squared off in each of the last two AFC title games. I hope it's not the last of it, and I don't think it will be. I think it's the best rivalry in the sport, both team, Chiefs, Bengals, and quarterbacks Mahomes, Burrow. I'll give you a, sometimes, you know, conflict can be man versus self.

And, like, the rivalry that I feel kind of growing, because I almost put Chiefs, Bengals, bills as this triumvirate atop the AFC where it's like I could see the bills in some world coming out of this but my rivalry right now the way I feel because I think a year ago you just ticket the Bills for 1314 wins in an AFC title game appearance they seemed like that team in the AFC because we were questioning

what would happen to the Chiefs a year ago but right now I think it's the Bills versus a mounting sense of internal dread and just basic dread and I just feel Bills be thyself exactly man versus self That's a tough one. What I don't feel this way about the Chiefs,

there's incredible optimism, no matter what the challenge is, you trust the coach and the quarterback to work the way out of it. We already saw that all last year. Bengals, to me, sky's the limit for just the reasons you mentioned because of the quarterback,

because we've never seen a Bengals team like this. Something about the Bills feels a little snake bit and a little ominous. And I don't have proof of what's going to come next, but I just think that's going to be a theme. They went through it last year. I think the emotional weight of last season caught up to them by the end for a lot of reasons.

They also were incredibly resilient. Josh Allen became a leader. But I just think this year is going to be a little bit different for Buffalo inside a very tough division. You know, and I agree, and that almost makes me think, hmm, maybe this is the year they surprise people because it always seems like the year everyone thinks once. Like last year was not supposed to be the Chiefs City.

But Tom Brady's first year with Tampa was not supposed to be the Bucs year. That was supposed to be like the year they build up to that. And we're all thinking about this because that is the right answer in terms of just like right now, what's the rivalries that define the NFL? And I think rivalries are why football, American football, is a better sport, frankly, than the most popular American sports. Or it's one reason is they're more popular, I think, than the NBA and basketball, because rivalries are so important within the division.

And then you get these, like, like, Bill's Chiefs is an incredible rivalry. When the Bill's beat the Chiefs early last season, it really felt like a moment. You know, like they had gotten over. some hump and that those playoff losses that they had are insane but then you think about Bengals cheese and then you just sort of think all of Mahomes' rivalries he has a rivalry with Allen

he obviously has one with Burrow every time him and Justin Herbert play it's like the Chargers just kind of play the Washington Generals but all those games are amazing and both quarterbacks always play Herbert's numbers versus Kansas City are insane tellingly Mahomes says after the Jaguars win when he's back at his

house with his family someone at this party says to him who would you rather play? And he says he wants Cincinnati. Like he respects Buffalo, but it's the Bengals that he wants. Like that I thought, I thought it was the Bills.

It was a weird season for Buffalo and nearly like a horrifically tragic one, obviously with DeMarie Hamelin. But I thought when they lost at home in the snow to Cincinnati, they fell behind. And I view them kind of outside of those big two now. But you can easily see it the other way around. I guess the thing is when you have greatness, and we've gone from.

one dynasty that's never had anything like it in the NFL history, the Patriots, where we got most of the best rivalries involved the Patriots for a while. And we segued with an actual game right into the Chiefs having all the best rivalries. I mean, Mahomes, to me, his most incredible season was his first as a starter. And Belichick really prevented them from getting that trophy or Tom Brady did. So even Mahomes Belichick, I'm glad they're playing this year. That's a rivalry. All the Chiefs' rivalries are the best because they're the best.

yeah the feeling about buffalo it's hard for i think especially me and i know for a lot of people to get that image of buffalo in the snow just getting trounced and ran out of their own building and that like that influences expectations but we have these discussions coming into every season and it seems like the folly of expectations shouldn't like we should realize that they went 13 and three last year like the things we expect aren't necessarily going to happen right and so like i i think buffalo could be fine, but it could also go horribly wrong. And unfortunately, due to the nature of the game, it could be like that for the Chargers. It could be like that for the Bengals. It could be like that for the Chiefs. Like, we don't want to see it. But I think the thing that I love about the Burrow Mahomes situation is, and it may happen. But right now there's no like, oh, Joe Burrow can't win the big game or any dumb shit like that.

Like people are recognizing, like, these guys are good. Like, Aaron Donald makes a play or Patrick Mahom. and Travis Kelsey make a play and it doesn't like define careers like they just lost and I'm glad that we haven't had the dumb stuff yet and he the mohomes is the oldest of the three including Josh Allen and he's 27 it's kind of crazy yeah and Mark to your point about the bills I think it was an episode you weren't here last month we did the urgency scale I had the bills at a perfect 10 points that's how I feel this is such a tremendously important year in the history of the organization because I think there's a is part of that dread was that window was the last couple years and we didn't get it done at home in January the previous year

the 13th second game like was that the window where this team was But isn't that sort of what we're saying is it's like I could project the Chiefs making four or five Super Bowls over the next seven or eight years I would have no problem with that. Bengals, sure.

I mean as long as they can continue to, you know, keep the roster together, but the bills to me feel like the window is slowly closing. Which might be unfair because like Alan is still young and he's got 15 years, 10, 15 years ahead of him. They could reload as well. But maybe it's this core and then, I don't know. I felt strongly entering this past season that they were the team.

Now there's a little doubt around him. Maybe that's not the worst thing, Patrick. How about you? Rivalry. Favorite? Are we going? What order are we doing? Anything you want.

Okay, so one rivalry that jumps out to me that is bananas because we just talked about Sala and Sean Payton and like it feels like there's actual animosity there at this point. Tootong of Aaloa and Justin Herbert are two of the nicest people on planet Earth. They would never say a foul thing about literally anybody, but their fan bases are so passionate that this thing has been created off of pure conversation about who should have been drafted, where, who's the better quarterback. It's the best thing that ever happened to, man, you'll watch it.

You ain't got no haters, you ain't popping. That is so cringe. I just remember going, I literally. You ain't, bro. You ain't popping, bro, if you ain't got no haters. Yikes. But it's just a, it's a sign of, one, how, like, annoying conversations can be, but also how much energy and attention it generates for the game.

Because these two guys, like, literally wouldn't hurt a fly. Like, they would never say a cross-thing about anybody. But I'm excited about this game. Like, this has been years in the making, and I'm not excited about all the things that people are going to say about it. But I'm just, I'm glad that we have these guys, and I'm glad we have people who make this thing. You know what?

if you don't want too much attention on that. And I think you're right. The build up to the game will get a lot and the post script will get a lot. But the fact that it's week one, it's not in a primetime spot. And it's actually opposite the Tony Romo Jim Nance game in week one. We've already seen the assignments of announcers. Nothing made me feel like football is back more than CBS. What are we got?

The announcers. Never too soon to talk about it. I'll bring them up. But I know that Romo and Nance are on Eagles Patriots at 425. and Packers Bears is also on Fox at 425. So you're burying dolphins chargers there in a relatively big spot. We need to send the top team to cover the Patriot. I remember Charles Davis is on Bengals Browns because I just remember thinking,

oh, Mark will and if he wants to watch that. Here we go down this road again. We all enjoy Charles Davis and I and Eagle. And I was like, that'll be a pleasant call. Just an option. I will watch all the games. So I will watch. But that specifically, that will be a choice for you.

Yeah. Well, Patrick, I'm so with you on the fact that the two quarterbacks probably could be best pals and go on endless road trips. But that was a, with their prime time encounter last year. They're too quiet, you know? I wouldn't want to watch it. But that's another show I wouldn't watch. But that was a dark night for X, aka Twitter, that whole clash they had in prime time. AKA Twitter.

All right, let's pause here for one second. promo baby football's back celebrate by watching his teams across the league take the field for training camp back together weekend presented by YouTube with two full days of practices

player interviews, miced up moments and fan fest across the league it's a can't miss NFL reunion NFL Network and NFL Plus have you covered with coverage on Saturday July 29th and Sunday July 30th with additional coverage on ABC and ESPN

go to NFL.com slash backtogether weekend for ways to watch. While we're here, let's take a quick break and we'll get back to more rivalry talk. All right, we're back. I'm going to go with essentially Raiders versus everyone. Now, below that, it's Al Davis. Al Davis and the Davises versus the NFL.

I mean, that's the ultimate rivalry. They hated each other, him and Pete Roselle, the commissioner. I mean, they lived up to their name. They merged, like, he got this merger. He wanted to have this big spot in the NFL. Roselle ended up burying him, taking him off the competition committee. They hated each other. Like, the Raiders in the NFL always were getting at each other.

They were truly renegades. And then they tried to not let him go to Oakland. They sued the NFL. They actually won. They basically hated themselves until the end of Roselle's career. Roselle said when he retired, one of the reasons he was retiring was Al Davis was such a pain in his ass all that time. Fast forward to, like, Mark Davison, we still got problems.

We still got the NFL, rightfully, but being involved in a situation where John Gruden's career ends with the Raiders, and there's still tension here. Oh, they wouldn't let him go to L.A. either. Right. Or their biggest fan bases. Between Al Davis and everything. There's still all this stuff. And then I think Mark Davis is definitely more genial. But then I thought about it.

And it's like, everyone thinks they have a rivalry with the Raiders. Like, Chargers games are different when the Raiders show up. It's like, oh, no, like Raiders fans are showing up. You saw it on quarterback. Like, the Chiefs actually consider the Raiders their biggest rival. Broncos kind of feel that way. It is kind of amazing that they've got to track some of the history of the game, too. Yeah.

These are AFL teams. Exactly. They killed each other in the 60s and then merge and that stuff leaves a long tail. But the fact that the Raiders specifically have been able to maintain this despite 20 years of sub-mediocrity is pretty impressive. That's just like, even though they've been bad, they still are sort of the team. everyone around them and the NFL like are they kind of like cowboys of the afc in a way that they have the branding and yeah they're just something special about them but they haven't been special well i did that like um back when we used to write like long

articles like uh you still can by the way i know well no i feel i feel it's very possible but i had the assignment to cover the last game in oakland um but before it was it was a feature on talking to like 20 different raiders and i came away with it being like yeah just to your point that there is a cowboy's like aura to, I mean, not that I didn't know that before, but just to see that these players who hadn't been on the field in 25 years, one guy, a couple of them just getting

angrier and angrier on the phone talking about games from, you know, two and a half decades ago is like, there is nothing like the Raiders. The U.S. fans hate the Raiders still, even though they've been bad forever, which I love. Just think about how rewarding to see your byline on NFL.com. There's nothing like it. Putting in the

work. There's nothing like it. Doing the 20,000 words. Yeah. Letting the audience see your gift for writing the craft. You could do that again. I think what I'm doing is if there's too much of it, there's no need. So if I wait seven or eight years to do another one, then there will be that appropriate need.

Make them want it. Terrence Malick. What's the historical one you were referring to earlier? I was hoping it was. It was very much something that Wes and I used to talk about all the time because before Wes dispatched the Bengals, back in the days of Sam Weish, in the old AFC Central, which all those teams,

talk about teams, there was no friendliness between they all hated each other, but it never peaked more between the old Oilers and Bengals than it was Jerry Glanville, who was, I found him to be highly annoying as a Browns fan, but entertaining years later just to see he was a truly strange character. And Sam Weish, these guys hated each other.

And I'll never forget this one game, 1989, when the Bengals, at the height of their disdaintinger, for the Oilers and Sam Weish's hatred of Jerry Glendville, who he was, what he represented, the kind of teams that he put on the field. They beat the Oilers 61 to 7. And there's an incredible story on the athletic about this, where they were up 31-0 and went forward on fourth down.

They recovered an on-side kick leading 49-0 and then kept throwing the ball nonstop. That's what we need. John Peyton, you got to level up. That's a thing. That makes me excited for Jets Broncos because they ran a fake reverse after. that. The score was 58 to 7 at one point with 30 seconds to go and they kicked a 30 yard field goal to make

it 61 to 7. And then Sam Weish in the post game, there's a great oral history on this on the athletic and he blew the doors down and went on like a 25 minute tirade about the person of Jerry Glanville, the football coach Jerry Glanville, what he produced,

what the Oilers represented in football. And Sam Weish was one of the most charitable kind people. Everyone thinks that you don't live in Cleveland, but there was this whole the side to him where he was a Bill Walsh disciple who was involved behind the scenes and helping so many different people but Glanville just got under him

and he could never calm down when they played the Oilers and it was one of the more delicious rivalries. It's sort of forgotten right now. I love that one. That reminds me of the Belichick Titans game where they put like 60 on them in the snow and he tried to pretend it wasn't partly because he didn't like Joe Fisher. It was like absolutely your calling

I think they called a play where it was like a like where you handed it off to the wide receiver threw it back to the quarter to Brady it was like 49 to 6 it's like but those games you remember him like there's nothing wrong with a little blowout it's fun to tie it together think about if

Rogers is having one of those Sundays where he's like in the Jordan shoulder shrug mode and everything he throws is right on the money after Peyton went after his good buddy hack it and Sala what you heard from Sala there oh that would be delicious to see my Jets run up to score on Peyton's ass.

Whoever is leading, if they can, they will be trying in that game. I'm with you. I feel like you're going to be drafting that game number one, potentially that week. It's in the running for me. Are we allowed to take Jets games from you? Take as many as you want.

I'm watching it regardless. Except that one. I think they're going to give you that one. Patrick. Popped in my head. It's an old rivalry, but I think it still exists because there's back and forth as the story continues to get told.

Golden Tate versus Percy Harvin. It's still going on. Wait, what is it still happening? I love this. Specifically because it fulfills my agenda. And that's why I will take the opportunity to talk about it, for those who don't know. The Seahawks are about to play the Broncos in the Super Bowl. There's a conversation about whether or not Percy Harvin's going to play.

Golden Tate is like, whatever, it doesn't matter. We didn't need Percy to win the last game. Percy didn't like it. through Percy's telling in the story and Cliff Averill's and several other people Percy punches him in the face Golden Tate ends up in the trash can they go and win the Super Bowl

In the trash can In the trash can Wait, he like fell into a trash can He wound up in the trash can Again that's that's percy's telling What a great punch Golden denies that But the way that it fulfills my agenda

Is these guys didn't like each other There was literally a fight It wasn't a distraction They blew the Broncos out Harvin was awesome. Percy Harvin had to play the game. Yeah, like, all you have to do is execute. Like, you could not like people, whatever.

They went out there and did it, and that's why I love the rival. The fact that they're, like, all beaten and bruised and out of the league now and still talking about it. I love it. I love that you say this fulfills your agenda. It does. It confirms my prior. What is the agenda? Just be clear to me.

If you play and you play well, then you're going to win. Like, it won't be a distraction. Like, you don't have to get along there. There's no human emotion involved in any of this. can do it. I don't think you needed receipts on that one. Well, I mean, it's constantly argued against me. But either way, like, you can do it with NFL films watching and there could be quarterback, there could be wide receiver documentary, but as long as you go out there and

do what you're supposed to do, you're probably going to win it. Well, that one on my long list was Russell Wilson versus the Legion of Boom, which never ends. Like, no, they enjoyed it. They enjoyed it so much last year. Like, it still feels like it's going on. So that was that team. And there's, and like, it was all about, like, gets the credit, which is where a lot of this stuff starts. People want the credit. Yeah, and yeah, that team, it's kind of crazy.

They only won the one Super Bowl as stacked as they were, the play with Malcolm Butler. That is maybe ground zero for the heat that will forever be between Russell Wilson and the play caller and that defense. Dante Hattaire made an

incredible play on the play before. He did. Took down Marshawn Lynch. You got one more guy? What should I pick here. Let's go, let's give McVeigh versus Shanahan, because they're playing twice a year. We had Jordan Rodriguez, and we didn't really talk too much about the playmakers, but we did. But man, you really get the feel of how weird and complicated that rivalry is. And yes, McDaniel and Lafleur are kind of in the mix, but it's really more about Sean McVeigh and

Shanahan and to the point where they're obviously copying each other on certain things and watching each other, but that they know that the other guy knows that they're watching and so that they're too prideful to exactly copy it and they just do some BS cosmetic change where like, we'll use a tight end on this sweep where it's a receiver so that it's a little different so that it's us and like it's really ours. And I love that because it's one of my favorite parts of the whole thing is how they all take stuff from each other. And I love that because they're doing it for just each other because the rest of us nubes we don't we don't know all that but they know that Sean McVe is going to be watching them on tape and think like oh they stole it from us and

so it's just this totally petty thing back and forth and it was so complicated because you understand like their friendship whatever it is their respect is on hold they kind of they respect each other but they don't like each other I mean Mike McDaniel used the word exploited to talk about his relationship with Kyle Shanahan, which was kind of like a little thing he threw in there. And it's all very complicated. Lafleur was just kind of like, I like everybody, you know, to start to the side of everything. He's like, I don't take it. He actually says, I have no ego.

And I was like, okay, I kind of believe it with him. But that's like a fun element. And they're playing twice a year. Now I'm going to have a better context to use your word, Patrick, when I watch those matches. I think of the game where Shanahan, when they like blew the doors off the Rams and had that like 16 play 11 minute long drive where you knew shanahan was just rolling and they've basically owned mcvay other than the big moment where they didn't it definitely is in mcvay's um craw or whatever you want to say that they've owned mcvay and i wonder how that conversation and getting asked

that question before that game so many times has affected their relationship yeah like i think it's probably been tougher Sean yeah and hearing kyle shanan talk about it especially even in the last week. I mean, that loft to the ramps. Like, yeah, he's owned

Sean McVeigh, but McVe won when they won the NFC championship and actually won the Super Bowl, so.

Good stuff. Let's close it out with going kind of full circle and Andy Reed and Bill Belchick. Hmm.

I pulled the numbers just out of curiosity. So Reed is 65 years old. Belchick 71. um bellichick has 298 career wins 662 percentage reed has 247 641 wow so if he just keeps up his pace and actually you know did the coached as long as he as belichick did he has a chance postseason belichick unbelievable 31 and 13 six super bowls read 22 and 16 um he has two super bowl rings uh belichick has been the head coach of nine Super Bowl team, six wins. Reed, four Super Bowl teams, two wins. Reed is the first coach in NFL history

to coach in five consecutive conference championship games. And Belichick right now has him, obviously. Well, Belichick did too. He was the first coach in NFL history, I guess. So maybe Belchick was the second. No, Belichick went nine straight. Take it up with the Kansas City Chiefs Press Marketing Department. I'm just saying they went nine straight.

nine straight conference championship but then they go five in a row yeah they went nine straight that's like to me the most wow that is crazy the craziest stat of the of the

Belichick so what I'm saying here Belichick obviously is in pole position and if he finds a way to get one more kind of ride out of his career it's not even going to be a question he's going to just basically have every record but it's interesting with Reed being six years younger if he could

stay healthy and on the sidelines if he still wants to do it and Reed seems like a guy who's going to want to coach forever. Patrick Mahomes, as we mentioned earlier in the show, is 27 years old. And I think the next five years are going to be very interesting to see where Reed is then, because yes, if we measure it

ultimately, if you want to do a bottom line, you know, six Super Bowls, it's six V2 right now. But I don't know, does Mahomes have three titles in them? Then what's the conversation? I think the rivalry is these guys have a lot of respect for each other, so it's not like a person.

hate each other. It's not personal. But I'm very interested to see what this looks like when the dust clears and you start to say, Belichick, clearly right now, the greatest coach ever, does Reed have a chance to really enter that conversation in a meaningful way? Yeah, it does because I think it's like they're

flip-flopped in a way because Belichick, you know, post-Cleveland, had Tom Brady right out of the gate a year in and all that success came. And now we're now every talking head is like, is Belichick actually the great coach we think without Tom Brady, which is a ponderous conversation to me, but it exists.

And there was a long period where can Andy Reid be a good coach, but is he truly great? Like, is he a Super Bowl winning guy that does this over and over? It's like, now he's got the quarterback, and yes, he does. Hmm. I apologize. The Patriots that made eight straight, so that was...

Wrong! I think they were saying Reed achieved it before Belichick, not alone. Was it with the Eagles? Is that what it was? I would go look, but I think that's what... Unless the PR department's just trying to pull a fast one on us, which would be more exciting. Did the Eagles make five straight conference championship? Well, they definitely, they definitely made four straight.

He's the only coach to win 100 games and appear in four consecutive conference championship games with two different franchises. There you go. And they made five straight now. That's why I was thinking five. Either way, it's going to be tough, but I think it's a great rivalry because to me it's the best defensive mind of his era, Belichick, a couple eras, and the best offensive mind and the most influential offensive mind in Andy Reed.

and they have come up against each other enough that the respect is massive. They've each had pretty big moments against each other. But to me, it's going to be tough for Andy Reed to pass him. I guess he could start just like, he could pass him in wins. He could win more Super Bowls and then you talk about it. But Reed came up against Belichick in such big spots a couple times that their careers would have changed. I'm thinking, of course, the Eagles Super Bowl appearance after he finally broke through

and got there, it was the Patriots best team ever that shut them down. And then I'm thinking 2018, which to me with hindsight, but even at the time, to me, feels like one of the most important games the last 20 years for the Patriots to get that win on the road in overtime for Brady's last Super Bowl in Mahomes' first year MVP. That was like a sliding door save of a moment. And Belichick came out on top both those times. I think, but even in both of those situations, one is literally a cornflip.

the other is a metaphorical coin flip? Yes. I'm surprised you believe in metaphorical coin flips just based on what I know about you. But I'm just saying, like, in terms of the degree of difference, right, between the outcomes and those two things,

it could have gone either way. Like, there's universes, right? Yeah, it's not 61 to 7. Yeah, wins both of those. Well, that one I truly am with you. If the coin had flipped the other way, I think Mahomes would have scored at that point. They had a...

Like, Belichick was a great first half plan. They did nothing. It was their worst first first. half of the year, and then they just, they were scoring every time at the end. Maybe if it does get close, right, and Andy Reed and Mahomes win a few more Super Bowls, maybe the fact that

John Harbaugh and Doug Peterson have both won Super Bowls, whereas the Belichick coaching tree is kind of floundering, maybe people make a case there, but hopefully, like, history will be able to be like, hey, both of these cows are really good. Like, we don't have to put, you know, two bad boys against each other. Then Andy Reid retires

two seasons from now, and the conversation is totally mute, and we remove it from this episode. And I was going to say, oh, and maybe will they have one more big stage together in January? I think if that happens, Belchick kind of puts it to bed a little bit as well, because not that there's any downing of Belchick, but if he's able to build up one more big Patriots team, post Brady, it's like, all right, here's your flowers, here's your lollipops. Good luck, Matt Jones. Would he do that?

Like, would Bill leave just to, like, in a Rogers Packer situation to say to the boss, like, look at what I can do for somebody else. Like, this is, this is me. getting out on my own go back to cleveland i i'm happy they're on the still pounding that drum schedule we get it we get a little read belichick this year monday night football late in the season uh it's been a minute you know it's been it's been it's we got a little cheese hypothetical mark craft in belichick the egos they can't coexist it ends after this year bellichick goes to cleveland you want to talk a pomp and circumstance i have unfore

business here and go grumble grumble i love always love this place this is the this is the heart of football cleveland and it's our time i think that would that would be too uh nostalgic for me to ignore would you write a letter to this one being answer me this time around answer me this time i run i probably email him all right speed around here speed around the leftovers rap versus Sheffter. We hit that this week, but that's clearly... I got a rap versus pell racer. Okay. In-house heat. That's a huge one. Falcon Saints, I had to at least do.

I know you guys didn't want to... But Falcon Saints. Remember when Vic flipped them the bird? You probably don't. But there's a lot of good stuff there. Raven Steelers. I was trying to think of like a matchup. The whole plane out of painting. I think Stefan Diggs and Soss Gardner could develop into one

because Soss Gardner did quite a good job. He gave him one big play against him last year. But other than that, really did a good job. on Stefan Diggs. So that's just a matchup I'm looking for. I'm excited for Jet Dolphins this year. In a way, I haven't been in many, many years. That's a good rivalry.

I think at some point, Mike Evans and Marshawn Latimore are going to play a full game against each other. I'm really looking forward to seeing that happen. It's true. Like the NFL has done a nice job keeping the divisions the same. NFC East, AFC East. All these go back so far. That's a good job by you.

I'll give you a couple with no commentary attached. Okay, go ahead. All right. Dak Prescott versus talking heads. Kind of annoying. It's a good one. Dougan Browns fans first, Jettison Browns fans.

They really hate each other online. I've experienced that. Lamar Jackson versus his own body. Cozhar versus Elwood. I mean, that's stupid. Well, of all people, he's not. This is future rivalry. Belichick McDaniel, they couldn't be more different.

I cannot wait to see what happens between Patriots, dolphins this year. I think it's going to become bigger and bigger. Cynical Jets fans, not you. You're an optimistic one. But cynical Jets fans versus themselves. Melichick-McDaniel, you said. Mike McDaniel.

Not Josh. Mike McDaniel. Mike McDaniel. I think the polar opposite nature of the two of them, I cannot, there's just too many, this is exciting. Like Dolphins Patriots has not brought me much joy over the years, but this, now this might. Okay, good. Aaron Rogers versus the Packers.

Oh, yeah. That's a pretty good one. The DMV versus Daniel Snyder. Rex Ryan versus Gino Smith. Yeah. Those are all. Those are all great. It's very annoying that the Jets went to Lambeau last year.

Just missed. I'd almost just changed the rule about interconference play and just, you know what you could add? They add an extra one. They should have done something about it. All right, that's enough. That's enough football. It's a lot this week.

A little too much. Too much. A little too much. But great. Good talk. Patrick, always a pleasure. Always on this side. These aliens are going to make you eat your words, Clayvon.

No, they'll come for you first. I have no issue with the aliens. I feel like the aliens would have issue with the characterization of this story. That's what I feel. I love that. Check out Patrick on ITC. What is that called? Do you get 10%?

It's back together weekend. I'm saying he's got to catch a person. Enjoy yourself. NFL.com. Please download it. This is an IHeart podcast.