NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Fires, Hires and Big Little Liars

Episode Date: June 10, 2019

A room filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Marc Sessler and Chris Wesseling bring you the latest news around the NFL including the Houston Texans firing GM Brian Gaine (5:24) and Joe Douglas being hired by the Jets. (12:50) Cam Newton has been cleared for minicamp (21:18) and the Patriots cancel the last two days of OTAs (26:19). The heroes then list some "Big Little Lies" of the NFL. (30:56)Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast. It's massages only from men. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansus. I'm joined in a room filled with heroes. Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosethul. What is up, boys?

Hey, Dan. Now, he's back. Chris Wessling's back in the house. back west welcome back from your honeymoon and you were a little under the weather which we were sorry to here but you seem to be on the track back to peak condition slowly but surely getting better and you know thanks to you guys i can testify that that money drop is totally untrue i got a couple's massage on my honeymoon thanks to all of you appreciate it and um it was not a guy who gave you the massage or so you thought oh no it was not a guy it was not a guy was

a woman. Definitely a woman. Well, how was the experience? Wonderful. It was my first massage I've ever had. I've never been to a spa. We figured that. We called it a coin flip internally. No, never had a massage and afterwards I was like, why have I been denying myself this

for 45 years? I mean, money, obviously, is not everybody can drop whatever it costs to get a massage every time. Well, we're glad you enjoyed it and we're happy to have you back. And you missed Friday's show. Greg kind of went for the chair a little bit

He went for your crown And with Hey Dan unavailable Greg came in hard with a Yo yo I don't know Was that it? Yeah I was he I think it was yo yo yo And he said he might try to overtake you At the top of the show with his new yo yo yo yo

Well I mean Yo yo I welcome all challengers I don't run from my opponents But also I mean Greg's Greg's big thing always was hey now That's true True, which I really stole from...

Lifted from a very successful... Right. Yeah, from... Larry Sanders show, yeah. Yeah. You're having some issues with short-term numbers. Do you want to tell us about your weekend a little bit? My weekend was the same as ever.

A hazy weekend in Santa Monica. Welcome to the Around the NFL podcast. Like we said on Friday, this is our last week of three shows until training camp. So we're going to have some fun. because quite frankly, not a ton of football news to talk about today. There will be more in the coming days because we have a bunch of other teams holding their mandatory mini-camps. We have some OTAs as well that are voluntary going on.

And then it's after this week where the NFL goes dark, right? Or is it? You're right. Yeah, that's it. It's the dark period of the NFL calendar, the only one really. So until that comes or with you three times a week on today. show this is fun um you know game of thrones is over on hb o'clock so they got to figure out what's going to carry it what are our tent pole programs one of them uh is this nice little show

starring reese witherspoon uh who else is in it uh Nicole kidman oh kidman of course Shilene woodley I believe Adam Scott Adam Scott's in it Merrill Streep this season Zoe cravitz Laura Derns Laura Dern of course The Dyrnaissance. Is Brad Pitt not on this season? Brad Pitt is not on. Oh, I thought he was. Maybe he's not there yet.

I believe that was a possibility. Listen to us, yentding it up over here. But here it is. Big little lies of the NFL. Our little seg coming up later. That's going to be fun. But before that, let's get into some news, some firings, some hirings. Let's get to it.

Hard hit and right. Back at the wall. Toy game! Big Puppy! The Grand Slam! Of course. Our Massachusetts... Are you from Massachusetts? New Hampshire.

Same thing. Yep. David Top. David Ortiz shot in the Dominican Republic. Come on, who is. I want to school up there. It's all the same thing. You guys up there in your little New England hive center of your universe.

All right. Get on track. They've got their own little accent and peculiarities in New Hampshire. Anyway, Dave Ortiz, unfortunately, tragically shot yesterday. He's in, hopefully, on the way to recovery. But the Red Sox are sending their team plane to pick them up as of right now. We hope that this legend of sport recovers quickly. Absolutely.

Let's get to the news. start with... I mean, what a time it was to be a baseball fan of the Red Sox back in 2004 through really 13, you know, the pop. I would just predict that there will be

other aspects to this story, other layers to investigate down the road as well. Greg's so upset that we keep up the salacious aspects of the story. But yes, get well soon. Big Poppy and hang in there, Erica. Let's start with a firing in the NFL.

Brian Gain. Stunning move. The Houston Texans in a classic Friday evening news dump announced that they had fired their general manager who had only been there for about a year. Here was the statement from Texans chairman and chief executive officer, Cal McNair. After a thorough evaluation of our football operations,

we have decided to relieve Brian Gain of his duties as general manager. While the timing may be unusual, this decision was made in the best interest of our organization in our quest to build a championship team for the city of Houston. Now we're hearing, Greg, that Gain, who was not the first

or maybe even second choice to replace the former gentleman, Rick Smith, did not necessarily see eye-to-eye with Bill O'Brien or was not an O'Brien guy, and that led to the ouster, but, you know, we don't know the whole story. Your thoughts on the move? Well, the timing, I mean, you never like it when you're releasing a press release that said,

while the timing is maybe unusual, like you just don't hear that in a press release very often. Getting ahead of the story. Yeah, you, Dan mentioned, like, how is this going to be, you know, just over our text treated kind of in relation to the Jets general manager firing, which was also at a strange time of year. And to me, the difference is you can just see the guy who essentially okayed the high Bill O'Brien is also the guy that I'm putting the responsibility on for firing Brian Gain. So it's just Bill O'Brien consolidating power over the last couple of years. And I think there's at least an argument to be made that he's earned it.

That even though they've had their ups and downs, I mean, they've had a winning record in every one of his seasons except for one. And that if he was not happy with that general manager, he did a bad job helping to hide. Brian game last time around, but I have a feeling, maybe he's a little more optimistic about getting Nick Casario from the Patriots, who was their number one choice to replace Brian Gain, and they've requested an interview, and as we're taping this, we don't know if that's going to be approved by the Patriot. I think there's a huge Pink Pony Patriots link to this. Pink Pony is what? Pink Pony is essentially our Twitter show concept that the Patriots send people out and Bill O'Brien being one of them to other teams.

to cause chaos on those teams. But in this case, there is a real true Patriots link because Albert B.R, former coworker, who writes for the MMQB now, pointed out that the New England's culture coach, Jack Easterby, who was beloved inside the building. The what coach? He was a culture coach. And he reported to Bill Belichick on how elements of the entire organization were functioning.

Laugh as you will, but it's that was, they did not want to see him go. An off-field guy, religion, you know, family, everything, just kind of handling the, you know, out-of-football aspects of people's lives. He went to Houston after the Robert Kraft massage incident occurred, very unlike yours, Wes. It's very unlike mine. They basically, the theory is that he, after spending some time inside the organization, came to the conclusion that we're going to make a change at various places, GM being one of them. and Casario is very tight with Jack Easterby and Casario is very tight with Bill O'Brien and some believe more so than any link

between, say, Josh McDaniels and Casario where there is a, if it works out for him to come to Houston, that that is the guy they want and there are more people than one would believe inside the building with pull to bring him there. Well, the way the league's bylaws are written, if the Texans were to offer Nick Cesario full GM power, the language specifically says high-level employee as defined above,

which is basically primary authority over day-to-day operations, you're the real GM. He's not the real GM with the Patriots. Right. So if they were to give him the GM title in Houston, he could go without getting the Patriots. Although it's a little gray just because the Patriots were able to reject the request to talk to him last time around with game.

So maybe the job description was less clear then. I don't really know. The thing that annoyed me in the coverage of this quickly afterwards was people, and there was a lot of this on Twitter, going through the moves of the last 18 months and either saying, hey, he didn't deserve it. Like, look at what he's done. Or, hey, he did deserve it.

He did a poor job, Brian Gain. You can't put any of it on Brian Gain, obviously, because it's Bill O'Brien. I mean, Bill O'Brien, you can't, I saw especially like, well, they haven't fixed the offensive line. Well, who's the commonality over the last five or six years in Houston? And ever since Rick Smith stepped away from the team when his wife got sick, I think it's pretty clear that Bill O'Brien is the one that is ultimately in charge

in all the picks, all the moves, ultimately have to go with him. If he has the ability to essentially hire and fire a GM, he's the one that should get the blame and gain. I don't know what he's responsible for, but he got in a bad spot is what he got. Yeah, that's what I'm asking? Yeah. Because if it is O'Brien's ship and that all makes sense, what did he do wrong?

You fired after only one year on the job. I don't think he did. The reporting right away was that it wasn't. wasn't linked to one thing that he did. I think that the more we learn, if this Jack Easterby edition is part of it, that they've come to a conclusion that Bill O'Brien

and this culture guy they hired are, see someone else out there that fits the Texan system better. And Gayne and old friendships. That's what the NFL is. Right. Gain came from another, you know, from the bills. How much of this is just everybody wants to work with their friends? Right. I think that's

the NFL all the time. And is more comfortable with them. I mean, I think Gain probably entered a spot, which was very difficult. And I do wonder with O'Brien, I think this should be said. Cal McNair is the acting owner, you know, so it was Bob McNair, you know, for a long time. So there's a little bit of a vacuum. Transition period, yeah. In this organization, a little bit of a power vacuum.

And I think, you know, Brian's done everything possible to try to fill it. Well, we know where else Brian game came from. Yeah, I know this is tough on you, Dan. How are you handling it? Well, the town of friendly people at Pearl River, we lost, you know, that was a big deal because to come from PR and work your way up as a player, you know, a bottom of the roster guy played on some practice squads, as I've said before, while he was trying to make it with the Giants and Jets as a player, he was a substitute teacher when I was a senior in high school, and to work his way all the way up the ladder to become the general manager for it to be just cruelly ripped away from him after. one year. As a Pearl River resident, I'm very upset with Bill O'Brien, but I will reserve judgment. I don't know the whole story. But Pearl River is still proud of you. Do not go back to the coal mine. Keep it up, Brian Gane. You'll get another shot at this. Let me throw it out from this

angle. Someone from Pearl River is not going to let, you know, one little stroke of bad luck knock you down. You're going to come back somewhere better. So it's not the last we've heard of him. Will it be in the NFL? Who knows? He could be working in one of a variety of industries. Could be Pearl Rivers Moonlight Graham. You know, he had his, you know, one at bat in the majors and now he was meant to do something much bigger for the community. Yeah, we're with you. We support you, Brian Gain. Let's move on. Hey, speaking of general managers and the Jets, they got their guy. Joe Douglas hired as the replacement for Mike McCagnon, the former Eagles vice president of player personnel. The move came down shortly after the

game firing, which makes you think that perhaps the Jets who were haggling with Douglass. about a contract saw another GM job open up and said, wait a second, let's lock this down. And they did. And if that's how it played out, smart by them to get it done. So Douglas, who has ties to Adam Gase from their days in Chicago, we talked about it, that Gase, it was certainly a power play when he got McCagnon fired a month ago. Well, we'll see how this all plays out. now we have a situation where Douglas

the power structure is set up that Douglas answers to the owner or the acting owner Christopher Johnson so does Gase and from what we understand Douglas has a great pedigree

and he helped to build the Eagles into a champion so you would think he's going to have some sway in this organization it's fair to wonder how big a voice Gase has right now

but I think this is a smart hire by the Jets and I'm glad that they got it done and I have some other thoughts but I want to throw it to you guys first. Well, like Daniel Jeremiah, he's a member of the Ozzie Newsom front office tree, and he spent a lot of time in two of the most successful, smartest organizations in the NFL, the Ravens and Eagles.

To me, you have to love that as a Jets fan, that that's where he grew up. That's where he got his chops in Baltimore and Philadelphia and excelled in both of those places. I love the hire. I mean, everything you hear, Ed, and we love, maybe not the podcast, but move the sticks, Daniel Jeremiah, who sent to him. out some tweets this morning, and I did a little chatting as the ATN Media Insider with DJ

about this, that this guy is a stud on the way up. Now, he's untested. He's never been a GM before, and that needs to be taken into under account. But the idea of getting a young, you have a super optimistic feeling that this is a guy that you could build a young team around. I like this higher a lot. There is a sentiment that he works really, really well with coaches, that he gets, that he's able to communicate. Well, and I think lots of a reason there's division because the front office

and the coaching staff see each other as like two ecosystems and they don't get along. I think it's interesting they signed him to a six-year deal when Gase was a four-year deal. Six-year deal. They kept on going back and trying to get the deal done. And to Douglas' credit, he knew the Jets really wanted him. And he said, no, give me this, give me this. And the Jets gave him whatever he wanted. He got the John Lynch deal. Manish Meta reported that. that they doubled his offer to $3 million a year from where they started out initially. So that's a good sign for his negotiating skills.

You know, he was only with the Eagles for three years. And, you know, he really made his bones, as you mentioned, with the Ravens. I think it's interesting, you know, in terms of the eagle structure, they have a pretty clear division between the scouting side, of which Joe Douglas was the head, and then kind of the analytics side, which really Howie Roseman is the head, but Alec Halliby is also the head. And there was, I don't think there's any division there, but there are two different sides.

And I think people, when they think Eagles, they think analytics and kind of this, you know, advanced, you know, next level thinking, just how it's done. And from everything we've heard with Joe Douglas, he's about his traditional, a scouting background. Scout Scout, yeah, as you can get, Michael Lombardi spoke a little bit about this, that actually he might have been looking to get out. some point just because not that he there was any division or anything within the eagles but ultimately that was howie roseman's show and he runs things a little different whereas joe douglas is more the traditional kind of scout and also along the the dj lines the daniel jeremiah front they are now they were there was rumors that maybe they were interested in daniel jeremiah himself now the whisper surrounds espn's todd mcshay so they've gotten from one draft and guru to another it's interesting

Guru A to Guru B. It's a tough spot for McShay because you're... Or from B to A. Well, I'm going to hoist up DJ as my A. But DJ it sounds like was maybe the first pick to be his right-hand man. And he was very close with Douglas, I think, in their days in Baltimore and have remained close. But McShay, I believe, was on the same college football team as Joe Douglas. So they go way back as well.

And, you know, I hope McShay, just for your sake, Dan, doesn't get hired. Because then somehow that's going to be just like. like a running little thing mixed with shit. I mean, I don't care. I mean, that's for you guys. That's for like the people in the media. And let me just say something. It's just like, hey, well, you couldn't get Jeremiah.

Us guys? You are also in the media as much as we are. You know, you guys out there, you don't get to be on this subject in particular. You don't get to be right twice. You don't get to have it both ways. You don't get to three, four weeks ago. Go off on the Jets is the biggest joke in

football and how could they do this? You said that. What an embed. Go read some internet. Right, but not in this room. Not here, though. No, not here. We're all too afraid of you for that.

No, read the internet. I'm talking about the internet. And it's like, and you can't say, oh, this team will never get it right. And how clueless to make this decision now and the timing was. And all that you can say is true. But now you don't get to come back and say, wow, the Jets really nailed this one. Great higher by the Jets. The Jets are in better position now than they were a month ago.

No, you dumb farts. You can't get to have it both ways. Hey, hey. Are you saying there was overreaction and hyperbole on Twitter? Not just Twitter. Football cognoscenti. There's a lot of know-it-alls in this industry and a lot of the same know-it-alls

that were absolutely slaughtering the jet as a clueless organization that could not get anything right are now writing little gentle think pieces. Wow, the Jets actually came out of this in good shape. Good move by the Jets. Get them, Dan. You know what? Eat it.

It's impressive. But aren't we those same honkers, about 31? There's definitely some passive-aggressive aspects to this diatribe here. Listen back to the show when this originally went down. You let me know if you're in that crowd as well. No, no, I mean basically every other piece of analysis that we do throughout the year. Don't we do the same thing to other two? I'm on a certain track right now, Greg.

Let's see if you can get a fourth soundbite for this speech. My final point is... Oh, is this for social? I'm sorry. My final point is... My final point is that football, like anything else, is not always a cookie cutter operation. Yes, it would be great if the coach and the GM were hired at the same time or the current GM now had been a part of the free agent signing class. But just because things don't follow the path of what you're used to seeing in this sport or in anything,

it doesn't mean it's wrong. And I think the way it's actually worked out for the Jets is better. I don't know if they end up getting Joe Douglas, who is a hot name on the market, if they were going against seven other teams in January for it. I think everything happens for a reason and the Jets are in a better place now and just reserve your judgment and your slings in your arrows

because I didn't see wall-to-wall coverage on the Texans on NFL Network or in all the tabloids today. The Texans have more winning seasons in the last five years. They haven't won anything. I'm sorry. They've won a couple of division titles, whatever. Also happened Friday afternoon and no one cares about the...

Yeah, networks don't really care about the Texans. It was wall-to-wall coverage of what a joke the Jets were. Well, a lot of it was because Adam Gase didn't like the, you know, the report. I think the biggest thing that came from all that was Adam Gase not liking or the contracts of C.J. Mosley and Levy on Bell. That was like the number one thing. Separate, and you have to realize, do you have to say. They could have hired Douglass back in January to make the point. No one else hired him.

He wasn't that highly wanted. Some of the stuff coming out of the Jets organization was a little messy. And if you're going to root for exclusively New York teams, you're going to have to deal with more media coverage than if you root for a, a football team. Oh, I have no problem with it. I'm just saying if you are going to be a know-it-all and you know everything about how football works and the inside of organizations and the way things should be done and you want to kill the team one month ago, you can't now be like, oh, well, they got it right. They were on the right path all along. Forget it. I'm done with this. Cam Newton's cleared for minicamp. We're just on Dan show at this point. Let's just

I just had to get that off my chest. I like a good diatriop. Cam Newton has been cleared for mini camp this is great news mark sessler because newton shoulder surgery there was concerns about whether he'd be available this season not only is it going to be available for training camp barring a setback he's going to be able to be involved uh this month and going forward so it's going to be a different and we talked about this on our nfl network hit today um this is going to be a different year potentially for the panthers offense but at least you know that cam's right shoulder seems to be in a good place, and that is a major, major addition

or a major good news for the Panthers. If not in the right place, you're staring at just a lost season and a lot of fallout from that. And I'm glad any story that we don't have to, if it's truly healthy and he comes back and just makes constant progress, we don't have to track this, you know,

diligently every single show for the next three months. Well, we hope it sticks, though. He came back very quickly from his last soul surgery, and then everyone was very positive about it. And then you hear afterwards, well, actually, it was never quite right and I was fighting through pain

and it was not reported. There's something very different about this one, and this story has taken on an added layer of fascination thanks to our man rap sheet. Speak, Wes, speak. He said this is more of an unveiling that Cam Newton has really revamped and will have entirely new mechanics.

Trope alert. A new way of throwing the football is what Rapsheet was told. It's going to be. Very different. I don't think that's a tropler. Well, you're talking about a quarterback who had screwy mechanics. He looked like a corkscrew throw in the ball because he doesn't move his legs.

He only moves his upper body. Yeah. Led to major accuracy issues for his entire career, consistency issues. And if he's changed his mechanics, it could be a whole different passer. If I put, that's too violent, I say put a gun to your head. But if I put you on the spot right now and said in week five, you're watching a Panthers game with Cam Newton, quarterback. Do you think that he'll be throwing

differently? I think it looks like the same old can with that like slingshot the very rigid, upright, boom, dart throw. Most quarterbacks revert to what's comfortable. I don't, I think in this situation, maybe he can't physically throw like that anymore. Maybe he's had to. Maybe there's an impingement

or something in his shoulder that makes him throw it differently now. That would be a beautiful thing. Because I'm excited about year two of North Turner. I think their offense made sense and was more consistent than it really was for the five years previous. But I'm not too excited about a wide receiver crew led by DJ Moore, Curtis, Samuel. Maybe those two will both take a big step up.

I like both of those two young guys. They're both run after the catchback. But for them to be their number one and number two receiver, that's a pretty big question. You left somebody out, though, an answer to the questions. Chris Hogan? Always open. 7-11. I don't know about this, a 30-year-old changing mechanics from the ground up while recovering from shoulder surgery,

but I remain an optimist on this front. Well, one source described, wait till you see this, and Rashi said, downright giddy. No, that's exciting. That's June. You know what? I've really come over the years to appreciate Newton. I like him as a player a lot, and I think he gets slept down a little bit. And what's this mark, Mark?

No, it's cool. For you, I find that to be a nugget of personal growth, because in the past, you've been dinged by various media types, switch you to stay in Charlotte for some of your Cam Newton online. It's kind of like the jet spashers who have now come around. It's very much akin to that. I won't admit that I was wrong, though. I can't. Why go down that road?

I won't do it because Cam definitely did annoy me early in his career. I mean, it's right that he annoyed you. And Super Bowl 50 remains to me. Who could argue that? Super Bowl 50 remains, you know, a touchy topic for anybody, any of the Cam. defenders. Maybe all this humanized him a little bit and you kind of like the way he's come out of it. Who knows? Wait, why is it? Oh, oh, it was a tough game you're saying. Both, you know, the play. I'm not that

worried about the press conference afterwards. Oh yeah. That was not a good look. It was not a great night, but it wasn't, it was worse than a bad look. But that Broncos defense made every quarterback look bad. But that's not what I'm talking about. You're talking about the interview. I don't care about the fumble thing. The fumble thing's ridiculous to get on him for it. No, it's not. It's not ridiculous. Wes, the fumble. Oh, it was ridiculous.

I mean, come on. That's for another day. Save it for the, why didn't Cam jump on the fumble podcast? Why didn't Cam try to win the Super Bowl podcast? I mean, it was all happened very quickly. I'm just saying it's micromanic, I don't know. Who knows? His brain.

Well, that's sports, man. Finally in the news, meanwhile, on the throne of sleaze, the New England Patriots canceled the final two days of the off-season and organized team activities that were scheduled for Monday, Tuesday. Mike Girardi reports. And Greg, I just thought this was interesting to note, Giardi, because once upon a time, the head coach, maybe in a more motivated time in his life, had this to say.

And now with a team completely, you know, trying to reconstruct the offense and figure out what direction the Patriots go in in 2019 with their 42-year-old quarterback, and no gronk. So no days off. How about we're taking a week off? I just wonder what that's about. I think he has an appreciation for the guys, his veterans.

Is the fire still in the belly? I mean, he also did the exact. I think it's up in the air, he did the exact same thing last year. And I feel like there's at least a chance that we did the same. And how did that turn out? Same sort of thing. Exactly.

All right, that's what's happening in the news. Did that, the Ortiz thing, Did that hit you hard, Erica? I mean, he's just, like, responsible. Because you kind of grew up with him, right? Yeah, he was the one that broke the curse. How old were you in 2004? 2004?

I think I was in middle school when we broke the curse. Yeah, that was a tough upbringing for you to wait through. Yeah, it was. I'm saying you timed it beautifully. It was great. I mean, Ortiz was responsible for a lot of heartache as a Yankee fan, but he's like one of the one Red Sox that I have respect for, got away with some stuff during.

his playing days, Greg, but he's such an easy guy to like. The whole Boston Marathon bombing thing, that was great. 2013, when he gave that speech at Fenway. Oh, also for all the people who say there's no such thing as Clutch. Stick that in your pipe.

Smoke it up. All right. Oh, I got an ad treat. Oh, this is perfect. This Father's Day. Father's Day is coming up on Sunday, by the way. Heads up, everybody. Go to Omaha Steaks.com.

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Are you kidding me? I had some spicy meatball and I made some pasta. I made some spaghetti and I made a whole meal. And it was excellent. And Greg, how did it go with you and your dad, your father? Oh, wow. He grilled up those filet mignons, which were delicious, the top sirloins. And then I think the underrated part of the,

the whole meal was the gourmet jumbo Franks. You know, people sleep on some massive jumbo franks, but they were... I told you what's going on with Franks these days. Right, they were tasty. They've made a lot of updates. It's not your old big brothers, Franks. I mean, we would also love to be able to tell you about the steak burgers and, you know, some of the other... I had the chicken breast.

Didn't see them. They were pilfered off the top. Those were pilfered off the top. There's a little bit of tax that happens when it goes through our podcast. department before getting to us but from what we had it was like in the in the mob movies where you start out stealing the boxes of the cigarettes off the top of the truck you grab two cartons for yourself before you well i think it was the gentleman that carried over like a 50 pound refrigerated box to your desk is maybe who took i thought it was out sent to i would have got it

i would have got to picked it up to keep the chicken well and it is quite a value valued at 235 said that's a lot of food that's a lot so uh i'm getting it you got to tell you got to In the code, though, you've got to go to omahostakes.com and type the code around. I'm doing it tonight. Going to around. That's omahostakes.com and type around in the search bar to get that fixed package. Wes, maybe hold off. Maybe we can get another free box for you, though.

I want a possibility. The way you describe it, this company sounds tasty enough. I'm going to give him my money. We're on fire. I mean, who wouldn't want to advertise with this podcast? Throw it on the big green egg. There we go. All right.

Let's get to it. big little lies of the NFL now Wes do you want to explain not everyone has premium cable it's all right there or their parents uh password for HBO go so uh you can't explain the big little lies the segment the show just take us take us for a walk well it's a show on HBO it was originally supposed to be a mini series just one season and it was so successful won so many awards people are so invested that they brought it back

for a second season, which started Sunday night last night. They're off the book. It was just one book that was based off. One book. And Keisha got me into this show. And I thought immediately... Went well for Game of Thrones. Why not try it here?

I watched the first episode and said, how am I going to watch less ambitious television after seeing this masterpiece? Wow. It's visually stunning. It's well-written. It's extremely well-executed. Catch me off balance sometimes, well.

Some of the best actors we have ever seen. Perfect music score. Everything about it to me is delightful. but so big little lies the title little all of our lives are built around these little lies we tell ourselves and our loved ones in order to keep up appearances maintain relationships justify our behavior and generally keep insanity at bay for another day if you read the book sapiens which i've promoted on this show a few times you have promoted it was well the difference between us and the great apes the difference between civilizations and tribes is the ability to gossip the ability to form relationships, maintain these complex dynamics, this interwoven nature between humans. And this show, that's what it's about.

It's that we do all tell these little lies, but then you start with the big lies, the big part of it. Political theorists, John Locke and Thomas Hobbs, said we're atoms of self-interest. So we're like these rings around trees our lives are. We accumulate all these layers of richness and depth and complexity, and we double down on this character that we play, this mask that we wear throughout life

based on these lies we have to keep telling each other and ourselves, but it gets big and then it crumbles under the weight of that facade that you have every day, and the big lies are the murders and the politics. Wow. But the big lies don't happen. Put that on social. Until the little lies pile up, right? Until the little lies pile up.

And you know what? I mean, you could write that down and that would be an essay. tears. Every one of us lives these novel existences, right? We all have these rich, concentric, interwoven, complex, dynamic relationships with each other, and the most brilliant writers and artists are able to play God by conjuring up new novel existences and characters that are that woven, that complex. This show does that through how great the actors are. And it really, It really takes you to say, hey, we got to tape a step back and say, look at the art that these people are putting out.

And now we're going to talk about the Packers' Wide Receiver. I mean, if nothing else, I'm watching this show now. I've never seen it. So anyway, which. I'm going to have to. Which little lies are told in the NFL that could snowball into big lies. What an intro. No.

By the way, I told a little lie. Brad Pitt is not on this show. That was a lie that could balloon. and snowballed to something much larger. I think that one's going to stay little. All right. So there you go. That's the setup.

And Greg, I will now throw it to you. No, let's start with someone else, please. Why? I don't know. After that intro, I don't want to go next. I don't know if I understand it. It was just the intro. I want to hear it.

I want to hear you guys. Greg's like, let someone else get buried. Wes, since you did the setup there, why don't you explain a big little lie in the NFL? Okay, so-and-so, quarterback, can still make all the throws. Could be Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Cam Newton, Lamar Jackson, Case Keenham. Hell, Josh Allen can't make all the throws.

He might have the strongest arm in the NFL, but he ain't making all the touch throws. It's a little lie because our lives are filled with these little lies. Dave Geddeman has to go to a podium and say that Eli Manning can make all these throws. Still make all these throws. It's not nefarious. Very few quarterbacks can make all the throws. But Gettleman has to justify his decisions, maintain order and hierarchy in the organization, protect Eli Manning's pride, bolster his confidence, given the best chance possible to exceed expectations this year, make sure that his legacy and statue are intact with the Giants. But it becomes a big little lie through the Butterfly effect.

What if it sets the Giants organization back for a decade or more? We won't know until a few years in the future how big this little lie is. But anytime you hear the word still in front of Kim make all the throws, it's a lie. It just is. Well, it's interesting because this is one that the Giants aren't the only one saying it. I watched on our air last week, Mike Garifolo and Sean O'Hara, make the case that they watch in practice and that Eli Manning can still spin it as well or better than he ever had. You can't.

That's what they say, though. And I saw that, and it was just a moment of dissonance from. I mean, I'm like, okay, maybe I should trust them. They're watching them in practice. Maybe his arm is that strong this June, or at least at this point in the calendar year. I saw videos from practice. He can't make the sideline. And then you saw, and then I saw some other reporters who said the total opposite.

Yeah, they were talking about Eli as a drop down. He was continuing to drop down. I'm just saying what was said on our air. So it almost kind of proves your point that these little lies, just, you know, people that have something invested or they're attached or whatever. they just... How many NFL quarterbacks do you think can make all the throws? Well, that's an interesting question.

All the throws is... Aaron Rogers. It's sort of a logical fallacy because only like one or two people in theory could make all the throws. Matthew Stafford. You know what I mean? Because at some point

there's people that can make even more throws. It's like Rogers, Stafford, uh... It's more of it like can't do like 40% of what he could do before it. Honestly, the amount of hand-wringing still about the Giants quarterback position I would understand

that we'd be talking about the still if they passed on a quarterback in the first round and all the hand-wringing about I can't believe they're still going to Eli and they're paying Eli and he's still the guy in the future they took a quarterback with the sixth overall pick he's going to be

this kid is probably going to be playing by week six what does that have to do with their little lie I'm just saying like who cares like Eli's the past of this organization and there's nothing that I'm seeing I think they're always going to say the right things they're going to say the right things and try to prop you eye up because yes he is

that was my whole point I know he's an important member of the organization and the legacy and the franchise history but the end of it what does it all mean because he's really the book is kind of closed on Eli it closed the second they announced Daniel John's awesome he has an opportunity he has an opportunity why is he still being

propped up as the week one star he has an opportunity to make the playoffs if we're having this conversation next year I'm with you. But I just think it's not closed. He's still starting. They're not even opening it to competition. I think it's because the giants from top down have messaged this as poorly as you can

and he's still the starting quarterback on the field right now. But that's okay. Okay, but a year ago. But by week one, everyone was killing Cleve one for putting Tyrod Taylor in there because it wasn't really a competition and they were right. If this is not really a competition, that's when I have a problem with it. Johnny Medza, excuse me, Baker Mayfield, was in by week three.

So what did it mean ultimately? That's all I'm saying. Because to the point of what Wes is saying, it's a lie. Ultimately, the talent's going to win out. And why are they putting Eli Manning in his situation unless it's a competition? He should at least be in a fair competition

and he should have the opportunity to lose the job if he's not the better quarterback. I regret that I chose Eli as my example. Right. You had other example. Really, it was saying it about any. The Brise cannot still make all the throws. That's fine.

I mean, Tom Brady doesn't make all the throw Well, the little lie is Drew Brees can make all the throws. The big lie is Drew Brees kept the Saints from reaching the Super Bowl last year. Ooh, you said something saucy West on NFL Network today. Said he was one of the worst quarterbacks from Thanksgiving on. And he was. You should absolutely. You know, they had it.

Stats-wise, film-wise, he was. They call it the breakfast table, the Good Morning Football Folk. And they had Cam Jordan in their studio in New York. And Jordan was saying that Breeze is the top quarterback in the league. And that Tom Brady, you know, people take him away from Bill Belichick. Would you still be saying that? who doesn't have a bad coach himself, by the way. He's the guy year after he puts up the numbers and he's a Hall of Famer.

And then West dropped a bomb in the network that you found him to be one of the worst quarterbacks in football. And I know why you say that because he had two awful games right after Thanksgiving. But he played quite well against the Steelers. He played fine in the playoffs. He wasn't great, but he certainly wasn't a detriment. Look at his rate stats from Thanksgiving to them. They went down. They were some of the worst in the NFL.

And then look at the film of him not being able to throw. be on 30 yards. Argue with that. I have something that should not be argued with. It's a big little lie. The big little lie is that anyone in the NFC should be viewed as a favorite besides the Eagles right now. So the Eagles are the favorite?

Eagles should be the clear-cut favorite in the NFC based on where they are as an organization. And again, smart organizations, and I was defending the Jets earlier because I'm a Jets fan, but that's not traditionally a well-run organization. The Eagles have shown it time and time again since Chip Kelly got out of the building

that they know exactly what they're doing and they paid Carson Wentz. He's paid, he's happy, and he's healthy, most importantly. And you just look at what they've been able to build. Now, last year was a tricky year for them. They win the Super Bowl. They come back. The Wentz situation was just cloudy all year with the injuries.

They still went 9 and 7. They still won a playoff game. But now this is the year where I think they are going to be really difficult to deal with because not only you have a fully healthy Wentz, hopefully, they go and they get to Sean Jackson, so you add a major burner, one of the top deep threats of the generation, to pair with Wentz. You go and you got, you, you, we talked about Brian Gain getting fired.

Did Howie Roseman get Brian fired? I'm sure Bill O'Brien was furious that the Eagles traded up three spots. They get in front of the Texans and take Andre Dillard. So they start to fill up that pipeline. because smart organizations do that. They get the best offensive line in the draft. And then there's a tweet from Field Yates right around the time of the Wents extension.

Eagles veteran players now signed for at least three more seasons. Wence, Ertz, Zacheretz, Fletcher Cox, Jason Kelsey, Lane Johnson, Brandon Graham, Alshon Jeffrey, Malik Jackson, Deshaun Jackson, Nigel Bratham, Isaac Samulo. These guys are all impact players. They have the core signed. It's a young dynamic team

that won not so far in the distant past and they are going to kick some ass this year in the NFC and I feel like we're not hearing that right now a lot we're hearing about the same old culprits like the Saints and the Rams a lot of people who's the favorite I think the Eagles should be the clear favorite in the NFC. I think one reason we're not hearing that

through trumpets is because as recently as a week ago people were still asking fresh questions to Carson Wentz about how he feels. And it's not just been one injury two years ago. It's been a second injury. And they have no one behind him a quarterback at this point, if anything happens. But I would also just say looking up and down, the other 15 teams in that conference, it is as stacked as the NFC has ever been in the time we've done this show.

And I struggle to take any one of them and just say heads and tails on June 10th or whatever it is, that the Eagles are the team that's clearly above everyone. And are they really well run? Everything you said rings true. But that's true. Aspects of that are true of three or four other teams. I feel that way about the Rams who have become one of the best run teams in the league with one of the best coaches and a ton of young talent.

Saints? I mean, I don't love the Bears as much as those two teams, but they're a team on the rise. And the Eagles in the NFC East have to get out of their own division. I don't think that's going to be a lot to ask. But the Cowboys are not a bad team either. The Saints are the team that usually fill the spot of the preseason favorite, and I think they probably will be, you know, like number one in power rankings and stuff like that,

because they're the team that was the best a year ago that returned the exact, that returned almost all the same team. Like they didn't lose anyone. The Saints, there's no reason to believe that the Saints will be worth logically. Now, that's not usually how it pans out, but I do, I agree with you, Mark, that if you look at the Rams, the Vikings, and the Saints roster. I mean, those are really good rosters. Well, they're really strong top to bottom, and they should be playoff teams.

And I'm with, I mean, no one, I love the Eagles, so I don't really disagree with that. I mean, I'm just projecting. I just feel like they're in a really good spot this year. Yeah, I am. And even in a very difficult year last year, they still ended up being in the final eight teams. They had a chance in that game. I mean, they had their chances against the Saints to win that game, and then they would have been headed to Los Angeles.

What are the desert people say, by the way, where the Eagles are right now in terms of a Super Bowl? I don't know. Can I just point out that there's a team that knocked the Saints off their pedestal and won the division that the Eagles are in? And this team got better in the offseason, the Dallas Cowboys. You think Cowboys are better team than Eagles? I think that's a fifth. That's a coin flip. I have fewer questions about the Eagles because of their quarterback is clearly to me better than Dak Prescott.

To write, to answer your question, Dan, the Rams and the Saints, are co-favorits, bears a little bit behind, and then the Eagles in a solid fourth. Those four are fairly far ahead of the pack. So you feel like the desert people are lying. But the Rams and Saints are as a pretty... That's a big little lie in the desert.

If you like that, then... No, it's time to get in, but I wouldn't do that. Take a trip. That's not something I would ever do. Oh, yeah, we can't do that. Never. We're not allowed. All right. Mark, give us a big little lie.

I think we tell lies because the truth is uncomfortable. that the lies prevent us from having to deal with something that might not fit even the narrative that makes us feel good. And one of the people that's made me feel really good about football the last couple of years is Nick Foles. And there's no reason not to love what he did in that very well-run, perfectly executed Eagles organization with an offense perfectly suited to his strengths. And what I feel borders on potentially a burgeoning lie is when it's team desperate to erase the mistakes and the lies they told previously about their former

quarterback, Blake Bortles, you have to get involved into maybe even a more dangerous lie, a lie tied to $50 million in guaranteed money and hoping that you get the same version of Nick Foles that he produced inside of a very beautifully run two seasons with the Eagles. But two seasons in which he fumbled the ball more than any other quarterback, than Lamar Jackson in terms of percentage for quarterbacks with over 300 touches. And a quarterback that before his two playoff year runs in Philadelphia never started more than 11 games in a season.

And the one year that he did was in St. Louis when he was benched for Case Keenham. And a lot of that had to do with durability. He's also in the past had spotty play. And again, it hurts to view this as a lie, the idea that he can't go be a four or five year successful startup for them because what's not a lie is he's an awesome teammate. He's an awesome leader.

He's someone that walked away from football, gained perspective, came back, grew as a person, grew as a player, and fit into the perfect moment to become one of the biggest sports stories of our life in football. But the second little lie tied around him for this season that has me concerned is the fact that we're not really looking close enough at what's around him. And that is a bunch of wide receivers who look good when you look at the whole roster, because they're young and maybe they'll pan out, but you can't point to really any one of them in my book

and say, you have got one or two dudes that are going to help this offense fly. And it's going to have to be completely opposite from the Tom Coughlin, Doug Marone approach of the past few years where you get linemen, you get players around them to run a run heavy Leonard Fournet-based attack. Now everything needs to shift to become a pass-happy attack.

And it's run by an offensive coordinator against Coughlin and Doug Marone's sort of nature, in terms of someone who's running the offense, Johnny Filippo, who I think is a skilled play caller, but who got fired a year ago for clashing by running a different scheme than what the building wanted to run. And so you got all these little promises and lies and half-truths mixed together,

and everyone wants to just put the Jacksonville Jaguars back into contention when I look at two other teams in that division that have much more orchestrated, powerful offenses to begin with. So do Jaguars have a lot of work to do, and I'm not convinced that I can believe in Nick Foles as a 16-game starter, much less doing that over the course of five years, as much as it pains me. Who are the two? The Coltson, who is the second one? I think the Texans are a better run offense with a quarterback that I know I can trust more than Nick Foles.

Fair? You spoke about Nick Fools and what he's done in the past, and I have sort of a theory about that. He is more conscientious, introspective, and in touch with his feelings than just about any football player I've heard, and I think that affects his confidence level more than it would a normal quarterback. That plays into insecurities more, and when he's not surrounded by the coaching and the surrounding talent, he probably tends to slump a little bit more than another quarterback would, but when he's playing well and feeling himself, his confidence is sky high. It's a great point, too, of the lie maybe that DiPhilippo is a natural fit with Morone and

Kaufflin and you haven't I haven't really heard that you know it's offseason but it's a really interesting point because there are a lot of parallels to the viking situation I saw a report last week I don't know who said it was someone on the jaguars made a comment like it's going to be all about nick foals this year callias campbell it's like that that doesn't ring that rings to me as a liable because it's not all on nick falls either you could kind of look at the jaguars hornet's got a couple different angles and wonder if there's a big little lie a big lie a big lie around this whole team because foals can be essentially what you expect them to be not a superstar but like a good just on the right side of the dalton scale type guy even and that doesn't mean they're going to be back in the a c championship game this defense has to be a lot better than it was last year we talked about it last friday that they they half as many turnovers they didn't make the big plays the whole team oh telvin smith this year the coaching has to be better the defense has to be better the offense has to be better the running game has to be better the Quarterback, yes, and it's hard not to be better than Blake Bortals.

The front office has to be better. A lot has to go right for this team to get back on track. It's not just we plug in Nick Foles and we'll see you in January. Right, and hopefully that's not all what they thought, but they have not addressed enough. I also look at a team in the Eagles that had Zach Ertz and Dallas Goddard at tight end, and now you are going to a team with Jeff Swain and Ben Coyack, who I liked a couple years ago, but it's like you don't have that either. You run the Coyack trip? Well, I just, during that whole, during their whole, like, playoff thing,

they were using, like, five different tight ends at the same time. Skowing up the lake. Where's the offensive guy that he can look to week after week and say he's going to bail Nick Foles at the bad quarter? That big moment in the playoffs. That Koyak was cool in the playoffs. Josh Oliver, they drafted in the third round. That guy's going to be their past catching time.

Greg, close us out with the big little lie. All right. The big lie, the big little lie. The big little lies in Kansas City are all the, the analysis from people like us and really around the country talking about the chiefs as if Tyreek Hill is not there. Because to me, he is there. He's on the roster. And until we hear more, the longer this goes, I start thinking that he's going to continue to be part of their organization. And so the big lie is sort of like looking at this AFC field and

marking that down with the chiefs that they don't have him. And it's a very tricky topic to talk about. But just in terms of his status, it's totally unknown right now. And I think there's been a lot of assumptions, including from me and anyone talking about initially that he's just going to be suspended indefinitely or that they're going to cut him or something like that. I just feel like if they could have cut him. They have not cut him.

He's part of the organization. The NFL said last week as an update to the news that the district attorney at this point is no longer investigating Tyreek Hill, that it will have no effect on their investigation. So the NFL is still investigating, and there's still very strong possibility for suspension. But we don't really know it. This is a different case than ones that we've seen before, and we don't know what the NFL is going to do. We don't know how long that suspension's going to be. And it's kind of silly to even speculate, but the big lie to me is that he's,

that Tyree Kill is just kind of put to the side. We've put it to the side because it's not fun to talk about and it's a horrible situation that he's put himself in. But it's very much hanging over this season and hanging over the Chiefs and the NFL in general. And I, you know, I think there's a lot more to come. The NFL's in a tough spot because I know how I feel. I've seen enough of Tyree Kill.

I don't need to see him play football ever again. And I think a lot of football fans feel the same way. He isn't, and this was new since our last podcast, they came out and said he isn't the subject of an active criminal investigation, local law enforcement where this incident involving his girlfriend and the son occurred. But the personal conduct policy, that's different. And you don't have to have even, you don't need proof of violence. And there was a report in pro football talk that noted Ravens,

cornerback Jimmy Smith, he got a four-game ban for threats and emotional abuse of the mother of his three-year-old child. So I'm just looking at this from where the black and white of how this all ends up. If the chiefs decide to keep him on the roster, and it seems that's where we're heading right now, the NFL at some point is going to come in and deliver a penalty, you would think. There will be some type of ban, whether it's four games like Smith got or eight games, which is what Cream Hunt is facing this season. Someone they got rid of very quickly, unlike Tyree Kill. Perhaps more than eight games.

So it seems to me that unless something changes that the chiefs are going to have Tyree Kill on the field barring some new developments later at the midpoint or later in this season. And that is surprising and frankly, a little disappointing. Yeah. Or not. Like I don't even, even by bringing this up, I don't know. Maybe it will be a year that he's gone.

I mean, I think this whole thing is uncertain. But Tom Belcera was on our air. He came out a little stronger than I would have expected, saying that there's every reason to believe he'll be in training camp, Tyree Kill, at this point. And I think what Tom is trying to say is that there's been no actual official action taken and that no one knows what action. People would lose a lot of money trying to guess what the NFL would do with a lot of these cases over the years. And we really don't know, but the chiefs don't seem in a hurry to get rid of.

And the biggest action not taken is that the Chiefs have clung on to him this entire time, where if he were a roster fringe player, that would not be the case, I would imagine. Chiefs need to do some thinking about who the Chiefs are. All right. Big Little Lies in the NFL in 2019. Two more shows coming up this week, as I said. We'll be back on Wednesday. One more bonus news item. Oh, wow.

Beaver versus Cruz. Justin Bieber on Twitter over the weekend. challenged Tom Cruise, the famous actor, to a fight in the Octagon. Isn't Tom Cruise, like 60 years old? Cruz is 56. He's older now than Wilford Brimley was when he made cocoon. Yeah, but he looks, probably. He looks like 25 years younger than Wilford Brumann.

Cruz is an extremely fit, age-defying 56. I would take Cruz over Brimley, especially now. Hey, you don't want to mess with Brimley. Suspiciously, age-define. Tom Cruise at 56. Beaver 25, body in a little bit better shape than maybe you would think. He's not the same scrawny kid that he was

when he came out of Canada, as Ricky will attest. So he has some mass to him. I believe he trains. Bieber would win. Yeah, he trains with a guy, you know, physical trainer that does a lot of boxing things of that nature. I don't know what was behind it,

and I didn't do enough research to find out why he challenged Hollywood superstar Tom Cruise to an octagoner. battle but I'm just curious who you think wins and Ricky I want to hear your thoughts as well we'll start with you sure you want to start with me yeah I don't know why he challenged him either I was like trying to look at that at the articles today and stuff um but beaver let's not worry about why and just let's just put ourselves in the octagon Saturday you know in October a beaver is going to damage Cruz and his leg is

I'll counter that because I think that people just will quickly dismiss Tom Cruise because of his Scientology and he's a little bit of an odd guy but he also to me seems like hardcore driven and I think he's got like a will of steel and I just simply don't know that about Beaver Bieber's talented in his own ways but who's gonna break first in after brutal physical punishment?

Tom Cruise is insane. That's what I mean I think he will have the will to win. Right. Tom Cruise will die Also, again, sometimes, you know, there's an official there. And if you've got, like, a finishing move and, you know, Bieber can just get him to go lights out. There's only so much a will to win is going to help you in that moment. A lot's on the line for Tom Cruise. If Tom Cruise loses. The lights go out, they're out.

If Cruz loses to Justin Bieber, that's all that a certain age group of people are ever going to know about him for the rest of time. He can't let it happen. You cite Scientology in his weirdness? I'm just saying that's packed into the public perception. Okay. Well, here are some bigger facts. Again, older than Brimley in cocoon, that's a big factor. Don't care about it.

Also, a legit, like, what? Five foot four? Not a big guy. Cruz is going to get pummeled by Justin Bieber's not much taller, I got to be honest. Yeah, but he's... He's not an issue in the octagon. He's 30 years younger. That's one sport where short guys are the nice little center.

I can't even make a throw from third base to first base, and I'm 45 years. You think Tom Cruise doesn't have built-in injuries from all his life? Bieber sneaky 5-9, yeah. That could also mean 5.8 and a half. We don't know. No, it's exactly right. Cruise 57, 59. That's, I'm not like 6'3 foot 3.

But also Cruz, I think it's hilarious that you compare them to Wilford Brimley, but they are not physically on anything close, physically. Father time remains undefeated. There's a YouTube video that says Justin Bieber's real height is 5'6. Proof. Uh-oh. Well, I'm with you. I think this is kind of like the, maybe like the heavyweight.

fight the other night you know uh beber needs a quick knockout because if as the rounds go on and this just becomes more about the will to win in the in the grappling then i like cruz's chances because i think this man he's not going to be denied he has the heart of a champion why from his movies absolutely he just just seems like you think beber a 24 year old i think mentally young kid for stamina i think i'm going neck up because neither are going to be that talented physically right First of all, he's going to train like crazy. He's going to get a ton of PEDs. He'll be, Cruz will be ready.

And then mentally, I think he would embrace the pain. Is Bieber, like, he's going to want to be punished. He's going to want to outlast it. Cruz will look at it, some sort of, like, life challenge where Bieber will suddenly be there and just be like, what am I doing? You've just painted Tom Cruise as some, like, unbeatable Yoda slash Darth Vader mixture. He is. He is.

Adequately. He does all his own stunts. He's an absolute, he like, jump. off a building for the last year's for analysis we just have to jump in and say it i mean the cruise and a walk and be able to get in some some pummeling but crew like i said would rather die than come out of that octagon a loser like he is that intense a person he's ancient i could not agree more west you are you have shown ageless aspects to yourself same with tom cruz beaver would pummel me right now so at cruz all right i don't know about that um let's go that's it

Stan Hans is signing off for Quiet Storm, the mailman, the old boss, Ricky Hollywood behind the glass. I would pay $59.99. Oh, in a second. Till Wednesday. Okay. Podcast, huh? Still doing this. Let's make it nice, tight and right.

Okay. Yeah, there's only three news items, so you guys should be done in about four hours. This is an I-Heart podcast. Thank you.