NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Franchise Tag Deadlines; Andrew Luck and Colts Deep Dive with Zak Keefer

Episode Date: July 15, 2022

A virtual room filled with some heroes - Gregg Rosenthal, Marc Sessler and Patrick Claybon bring you all the latest news from around the league, starting with the upcoming deadline for franchise-tagged players (Orlando Brown, Dalton Schultz, Mike Gesicki, and Jessie Bates III) to sign their deals (6:10). The Patriots traded wide receiver N'Keal Harry to the Chicago Bears (14:08), Sean Payton has a few teams he'd be interested in coaching next year (19:30), Baker Mayfield is done doing Progressive commercials (27:36), Rodney Hudson's future in Arizona is uncertain (30:49), and Le'Veon Bell announced on Instagram that he will be focusing on his new boxing career (33:46). After the news, we welcome The Athletic's Zak Keefer onto the show to go behind the scenes of his new podcast miniseries "Luck," examining Andrew Luck's career and his shocking early retirement (37:24) before doing a deep dive on the Indianapolis Colts and their outlook for the 2022 season (1:02:36). Note: timecodes approximate.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast loves the Star Wars franchise. Welcome to another episode of the Around the NFL podcast. I'm Greg Rosenthal. City in for Dan Hansis. Our humble host is gone.

But you know who else isn't gone? A room filled with some heroes all across the globe. Mark Sessler and Patrick Claibon in Los Angeles. What's happening, Jets? Well, you're satisfying around the globe portion. Mark around the same place. Well, you're talking about eight minute drive from Claibon. It would be cool, though, if you guys were together at Claibon,

house that would have like really surprised me if you just had your arm around each not that you guys aren't friendly but it just would have been a first for this podcast but uh we're we're setting other bounds here with me it's friday morning here in tokyo it's uh thursday afternoon three p m in in los angeles it's 6 p.m. where dan is uh about to attend or at a yankees reds game so hope him and the boys have fun there we were we were together uh claybon and i think mark might have been there too on the day that Andrew Luck retired. And that's part of what we're going to be talking about this episode was Zach Kiefer from The Athletic coming on to talk about his pod series.

I remember that day well when Andrew Luck retired. You were hosting a housewarming party. Yeah, we were having shrimp boil and things were good. Drinks were flowing. And then everybody started looking at their phones. And we were all kind of stuck in a weird work slash party mode for like an hour and a half as Andrew Luck's news was breaking. So actually, I unfortunately did not attend that party.

But how I tracked that party was because I was home, I was think I was not feeling too well. So I was home on the couch, you know, just tracking Twitter when the news broke. And then obviously the world froze. But suddenly like a flood of text from every other person in NFL media from Claibon's yard, tweeting photos from various angles of the yard of everyone else in NFL media looking at their phones about the Andrew Luck News. So it was just this like event inside the event. I know. We've done this show so long now.

We started it in the summer of 2013 that like now we have like histories that are encompassed entirely while we've started doing this podcast. Andrew Lux career isn't exactly that. I started at the NFL his his rookie year actually before it started. But the podcast didn't start it until a year later. But it's crazy to think back. But what you want to be when news like that happened, where you want to be, is somewhere where you have a great excuse not to write or not to jump on a podcast, I guess, at that time.

And I remember being happy I was there. I was not long for that party. My son Walker, you know, when he was younger, was very afraid of dogs and just couldn't handle the Claibon's dogs. And so we didn't stay there for too long. But either way, you gave me a good out not to go have to fire off 1,500 words for Ali Bun Perry. That's what I do. That's what I do, Greg. I just give people out. That's my job. So this is like, I would tell you one little note about that, and we'll get into it was Zach.

But being at home, that Colts preseason game was on essentially. I think NFL network was, you know, broadcast all around the place. And the news broke in the middle of the game. I don't know if you guys knew that at the party, but it was like you would have known after. But Schaefter tweeted about it. And as Andrew Luck, was in street clothes on the sidelines, the fans at Lucas Oil started to realize their quarterback was retiring and booze started to usher down. He essentially left the stadium floor to a round, angry crowd of booze and had to go into his press conference situation that way. It was very bizarre. Yeah, it was one of the most memorable just like news drops of the last decade, last couple of decades. We'll talk about that with Zach. We'll get into it.

all. I think of Wes a lot when I think of Andrew Luck just because he was such a big Andrew Luck fan. Justin Graver's been digging through the archives, seeing if we have any good Andrew Luck clips from over the year. So I'm looking forward to that. Also looking forward to a little bit of news before we get going, before we welcome in Zach. And, you know, I'm just, I'm looking forward to joining you guys back in Los Angeles. This is my last bit of work in Tokyo. I'm leaving in about 48 hours and then I will see you in sunny, sick Los Angeles where it seems like everyone has COVID, unfortunately. Sorry, that was a down note to end it out. Let's do some news, Graver. The guys drafted after Nekeel Harry include Debo, A.J. Brown, D.K. McCaff,

Deontay Johnson, Terry McClure, Hunter Renfro, Darius Slayton. It was a really, really good wide receiver draft I mean that was just kind of mean I think to pick that as the news drop graver I mean Hunter Renfro he was a fifth round pick yeah and slayton was too right I'm not going to kill the patriots for that but I would I would kind of kill him because the type of

receiver they were looking for we'll get to that in a second let's start with the franchise tag deadline because it is coming up July 15th Friday. I'm already there. I'm on July 15th. I am in the future.

By the time you listen to this, it's already passed in Tokyo. And I can tell you from the future that none of these franchise tag guys have signed before. That's great reporting. It's not an abuse of your power, but it is a questionable use of your power.

It could come back to haunt me too. And then this episode could be completely out of date. but reporting from the future has never steered me wrong in the past and so that I can tell you that the four players who were seeing if they could get a deal done and if you're not familiar, there's a deadline July 15th if you don't sign a long-term deal by then. You have to either play under the one-year tender

that you were offered as a franchise tech player or you could just sit out the year. That's really the only two options for you. Those four players are Orlando Brown of the Chiefs, Dalton Schultz of the Cowboys, who was the guy probably out of these four who there was the most hope for, and he's the one guy who could maybe bang us here at the last second,

but it doesn't sound like he's going to get a deal done. Mike Gassicki of the Dolphins and then Jesse Bates of the Bengals. Mike Garifolo's kind of bit out front of this Orlando Brown reporting. To me, he's the most interesting of the four. Graver, let's hear what Mike had to say about him. I'm not expecting if there's no long-term deal. I'm not expecting Orlando Brown for the start of training camp or really any time during training camp.

That is my understanding. Remember, he hasn't signed the tag so he can't be fined if he's not there. And even week one is in question. So let's see how this plays out over the next couple of days. Like I said, the side's far apart. I'm not expecting a deal.

And that could have ripple effects for Patrick Mahone's blind side protector down the line here. All right. So week one, possibly in jeopardy, Claibon. That sounds more serious than the other guys where this could actually be ugly

and he might try to push this as far as he possibly can and miss some regular season time would be disappointing for the Chiefs. Yeah, disappointing for the Chiefs, but when you consider that they traded for him initially, right? When we have these circumstances where you trade for the guy, you normally assume that the guy is going to be paid,

especially in a circumstance right where Baltimore has to us starting quality left tackles and they eventually make this deal in order to satisfy Orlando's aspirations instead of just paying him. I think that probably would have satisfied his aspirations as well because the only reason he wanted to be left tackle was so he could be paid like a left tackle. But anyway, I think he has a significant amount of leverage here considering that they paid for him unless, right, the chiefs view it as sunk cost being a logical fallacy, which it is. But they just have to make the decision, right, based on. That's why I like having Claibon on. He has good economic hot takes.

I mean, Cynthia Freeland has confirmed that. one for me and so that that makes me feel good because she's significantly smarter than me as as is most of the planet but you you got him for a reason right and that reason is to protect Patrick Mahomes and there's been all of this change elsewhere on the offense so why not pay him I guess I understand why but you would like to have a football team that could try to win a Super Bowl so you you should have your left tackle on pay him right like why play hard outside of quarterback left tackle is the toughest position to find but I think that there's, I wonder what the chiefs in terms of their self-scouting, think of Orlando Brown.

I think he's obviously a quality tackle, but he wants to be paid like a top left tackle. And I think that, you know, the Ravens initially, and then maybe the chief's view a more is being paid like a really quality right tackle. I mean, I think he made this move because he, you know, he stepped into Staley's position in Baltimore, fared well and thought, this is how you make money as a tackle by playing left tackle. He got his trade. and now he wants his cash, and they're very far apart. So that tells me that they're not close to, hey, you know, the chiefs might just have to do this.

It sounds like there's a philosophical difference about we're not paying you what Trent Williams just got in that last deal. You're somewhere else. And, I mean, the franchise tag feels closer to what they think he should make annually. I mean, just based on hearing that they're this far apart. I mean, that is concerning. But he almost has no leverage in a way, too, because if they decide, we'll find another tackle after, after this next season. He can skip camp and do all that, but it's his only chance to make money and play is to come in and be on the field. And whether it's skipping week one or not, I don't think

he's going to skip the whole season based over this. I don't think it's a quick fix, though, Greg, do you? No, I don't think he'll skip any games. Because in this spot, and it's one of the reasons why the franchise tag is such a win for the owners and teams, the player doesn't really have any leverage. Yeah, he'll get paid eventually. But he was a third round. pick, he can make more money, Claibon, in the first couple weeks of the season than he made in the last few years. So if he wants to get paid, like, he has to play. Like, his salary goes up so much as the franchise tag player that you just kind of got to show up 10 days before the season. Then you never do it. And the weird thing is, like, everything worked with this trade that he made last year.

I think it sort of fell under the radar that the Chiefs did fix their offensive line in one year. And he's known as more of a... Right. And he was a big part of it. Right. And he was a big part of that. And he's known as more of a good run blocker than a pass blocker, but he was fine last year. He fit right in. They gave up a first and a third for him and some other later picks also gave up a second back. But I'm surprised that they let it get to this point. But it's another example where I just think the owners and the teams have the hammer because worst case for them, they can just give him a tag again next year. It's honestly preposterous, right, that a guy can start at left tackle for two playoff teams and neither one of the

them want to pay him right and so if he's if he's that bad uh then let him go get him get him to free agency and then see but well it's not like they think he's that bad i my guess is they're offering him up to you know 40 50 million dollars guaranteed top shelf tackle money and he wants to get like top top top top tackle money and and that's where these disagreements have so then don't tag him don't tag him then tag somebody else well that would be like giving it it's just tough to find the next the someone else that's the tough part that's what i'm saying if he's so tough to find then pay him, right? Yeah, they have so many, like, big time contracts on the books.

I think it's one of the reasons they got rid of Tyree Kill. It's not just that it was time for a change offensively and, like, hey, they're pushed to the cap. It's also like, it's almost like the NBA, too. When you have so much of the cap on five players, it's not just about the quarterback. It's about Frank Clark is still making that money. And Chris Jones is worth it and is making that money. And Kelsey and all these guys, suddenly it becomes complicated.

You can only have five or six of those guys. I predict I think Orlando Brown will be one of those guys. It's just going to be like a year from now. And they did a great job building that offensive line with their draft picks and with Orlando Brown a year ago. And it's one of the reasons why I think the Chiefs have a good chance to go to the Super Bowl. As usual, because they have Patrick Mahomes as their quarterback. Gaseki, Schultz, and Jesse Bates, we know isn't going to happen.

Looks like all three of those won't happen. But it doesn't seem like it's as not as much. animosity with those three, or at least they're going to be in camp, most likely, on time. Maybe they'll skip some early work, but they'll be back on the field. There was a trade in the NFL this week. The news gods helping us out, giving us a little something to talk about. You heard it in the news drop, Nikiel Harry, first round pick of the Patriots a few years ago is going to the Bears mark for a 2024, seventh round pick, which is technically the least

amount that you can have in a trade is a seventh round pick that's not even this year. Yeah, I mean, to get anything because this comes off, you know, Mike Reese reporting that they were talking about switching him to tight end, which is just kind of like a last possible move if he ever were to stick around on the roster. I think his fate was sealed when they signed for, when they traded for Devante Parker. I mean, this is a player. I know everyone goes to the, oh, the Patriots don't draft wide receivers well. And we heard all the names at the top of the show that who came at later. A bunch of other teams passed on those guys, too. So it's not just New England's problem. They don't really develop wide receivers that great either. And I think this

was a pick that Belichick went against the scouting staff to pick a 6-4 big-bodied wide receiver that wasn't necessarily what they needed at the moment because of his friendship with Todd Graham, the Arizona State's coach. And it's like, all right, you're Belichick. So we're going to give you an eternal pass on these things. But it has to be frustrating that the team and the scouting staff in general get blamed for it. And then when they brought him in, and Belichick's, you know, hyper-focused on defense at that point. And so it was up to Josh McDaniels to kind of make him fit in. I think he missed the first eight games of his career, like an ankle injury or something

and never really produced. So I guess Chicago, I mean, I think we're all down on Chicago's offense or the stress they put on it in general. But you look at the outside of Darnell Mooney, I mean, he's got a chance to see real snaps. So I don't hate the landing spot if he's going to reclaim his career. Greg, you talk about players' careers that we have. have bookended with our show, it's very possible that we will bookend Nikiel Harris unless we see an uptick in some sort of production here. Well, I mean, I don't see him sticking unless our show's

ending in like two years. I hope that's not the case, but I think, right, it's, there's clearly room for improvement. He's going to get more opportunity in Chicago. I think we've seen receivers go through New England in the past and kind of wonder about, you know, who's playing what and what's the snap percentages. And that's the, that's always the question. with New England on offense because there's so many different guys that are rotating in and out and that's been a constant. But it is a tinge unfair to compare Nikiel Harry to some of these other guys. But why? He was, he's a very similar type of, that's the thing is he's a very similar type of profile coming out of college as D.K. and A.J. Brown in a way, which is that people

thought, well, not in terms of what he did in college. And he was someone that divided draft Twitter and draft Twitter gets a lot of things wrong, but they got Nikiel. Harry right. They kind of thought he was a bust before he got taken. But in theory, a big guy who can make plays after the catch and win at the catch point win one and one battles. That's pretty similar to what D.K. Metcalf and A.J. Brown, what people were hoping for it. So to me, those three very much are in the same bucket. And I bet that they were considering those two other guys and they chose Nikiel Harry. So that makes it hurt me even more. Well, yeah, they clearly were considering those guys because those guys were good football players, right?

People should have been considering A.J. Brown and D.K. Metcalf, especially considering the people that they were playing against. I think we can look back and see Nikiel Harry, right? And this idea that his profile is those guys is just, it's like it gets us to this weird comp territory where like if you're relying on a comp, like you should be evaluating the player more so than what they hypothetically could be and so it's there's there's an opportunity for to kill Harry but when I think about Todd Graham and Bill Belichick two notorious textures right there's there's it's it's it's there's there was mistakes were made yeah you feel bad for him you feel bad for Harry because he

didn't ask for it he probably and and the idea that the player is the bust as opposed to the decision, right, the decision to put that player in that particular position, like that was, that was the mistake. Like, Nikiel Harry is Nikil Harry. Hopefully he's healthy. But the idea that he had this hypothetical career and then, like, he messed it up now that he's just him. The process was the bust.

There's this idea that, that, well, you know, now that Brady's there, he can't, like, fix the mistakes, the Patriot. I mean, they made plenty of mistakes drafting receivers with Tom Brady, too. You can't change who he was. was. I've watched every game of Harry's career. I don't have that much hope that he'll rebound in Chicago because he doesn't make plays after the catch. And that's sort of the way he needs to win in the NFL. And he just doesn't make that first guy miss. His hands weren't really that reliable, which if you're going to play like him, they've got to stand out. So he's not

getting open. The hands are reliable. I'm not going to make plays up to catch. It wouldn't, it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't make the bears. And if he does make the bears, I would would be a surprise if he had a big role. That's unfortunate for him. That's unfortunate for the Patriots. The Bears, why not take a shot? You know who's got to be taking a shot next year, clearly, at getting back in the league is Sean Payton.

There was a report in the Miami Herald this week that Sean Peyton is interested in coaching again. And an associate of his told Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald, who over the years really punches a bunch of. above his weight and getting spicy stories. I don't know if they all come true. But at least, like, he gets mentioned on this show a lot, so that's good for Barry Jackson.

What's that shot at Barry Jackson? That very sleek slicing shot at Barry. He goes national with his stories, I think. He goes out, I mean, there's a dolphins angle to this, obviously. I actually had, you know, it's because I remember way back at Roder World. I actually sort of had a no Barry Jackson policy at Rotow World for a while because he would just have these notes. And it was like, you couldn't tell if it was a.

report or just kind of like throwing stuff against the wall and like I didn't necessarily trust the like let's not have that blaring like it's interesting to know but it not necessarily news this one though he said he had an associate of Sean Payton which he strongly indicated in the article was not Sean Payton's agent for what it's worth and he said that associate listed the chargers the dolphins and the cowboys as potential teams that Sean Payton would potentially want to coach. Oh, but no, he's not interested in teams that have coaches in place. He would never do that because he respects the coaching fraternity too much. He just says associates that are willing to talk to the newspaper a year in advance about those teams who just hired

head coaches, at least in the case of the dolphin. So, like, don't have it both ways. It's fine. Just try to get these jobs, Sean Payton. I'm fine with that. But stop with the, like, I respect the coaching fraternity too much to go after jobs. Like, this is going after him or tell the associates to be quiet. The names mark, the teams that popped up were kind of interesting. Dolphins make sense because there were quality reports that indicated the dolphins were interested in Sean Payton before they went from Mike McDaniel. So that makes sense. The Cowboys obviously make sense. The Chargers being thrown out there is kind of spicy. I don't see that happening. I do feel like Brandon Staley is a long-term coach there, but I guess you

never know. Yeah, you think Brandon Staley's probably set up to have for him a bounce back year in terms of like that defense looking like it's going to get so much better up. That report included the fact that Sean Payton wishes to have one, warm weather, to a roster that can contend and three control over the personnel decisions. None of that's surprising. But if you want to float your name out there, why not get attached to essentially Justin Herbert? That makes too much sense. I mean, that is a 10-year career right there. And he did pretty good with a former Chargers quarterback and Drew Brees. I just find it a bit insane that, like, if you're Mike McDaniel, you've never coached a game

and you've got a fan base that already previous to your hire dealt with the Tom Brady, Sean Payton, want to team up and take over the Dolphins whispers that, you know, bubbled up this offseason. And now you have Sean Patent's, and I mean, I have to believe Sean Payton completely knew this was coming, this whisper campaign, draped over your first season as a head coach. So it's a little bit of a mess. I mean, to me, I feel like Stephen Ross, he gets these big ideas sometimes. And he could be someone that maybe would fall for that kind.

I mean, I'm saying you're fault where Sean Payton is an excellent coach. But it would be a shame that someone, even if they fared pretty well, were bounced after year one to get the bigger prize in Sean Payton. But that's how it goes. Yeah. It's Sean and company playing the game of Thrones, right? And not only tying yourself to these teams, but tying yourself within those divisions as well, as if, to say, hey, I might be coaching here. And you can just imagine the money.

It's like the worst kept secret in the world that he's going to be somewhere. And that's why it's- He even said it in his press conference retiring from the Saints. He actually said, I see myself in football again. It might be on the sideline. Like, so that was pretty, even in that press comment, it might be on the sideline next year. Like, he admitted it even then.

If you're Mike McCarthy, doesn't it just feel like you're with someone that you knew? You're just like, I'm hanging on for dear life. I know we're breaking up at some point. I will be dumped for this ex-boyfriend, Sean Payton type character that the Cowboys have been infatuated with, Jerry Jones infatuated with. It's like, you know it's coming. It's going to happen.

Be the Cowboys coach. It's like Mike McCarthy just go through the motions for the next nine months. Have a good time. Especially considering, right, because during Mike McCarthy's time away from coaching where he became a computer, right? And he was analytics man. He's ran the numbers. And he knows, right?

Mike McCarthy knows it's not like a clock. He's perfectly well aware of watching this situation. And that's okay, right? He's got a ring. He got to coach the Cowboys for a couple of years. And if it goes south, it goes south. He's getting paid. Right.

Some team that has a good quarterback that's expected to do well will be a disappointment this year. It might not be the Chargers or the Dolphins or the Cowboys if you want to throw them in there. It might be some other team and they will watch on Payton. But I'd be a little worried because it said, I'm reading from the article here, Mark, you mentioned the warm weather, that being a fact, okay, quote, having a good quarterback would be helpful, but that isn't the number one or number two factor, the associate and says it, okay. On a much lower scale, the close associate said he would also, Sean Payton, prefer to work in a market where he could golf some. What?

I get that. It's so nuanced. There are no golf courses. Right, right. I mean, I guess he wants it to be like, you know, in the winter probably, too, during the season, I would guess. Of course, they throw in the caveat, though his work ethic and long hours largely limit these opportunities to the opposite. This associate really has a little bit. And there's no one more similar in the last 15 years to Bill Parcells to me than Sean Payton, who was his mentor.

and it is giving me Bill Parcell's getting that final paycheck in Miami vibes. And I know Parcells wasn't coaching at the time, but golf was a big priority for him at the time too. And that was a fiasco where he got like the biggest payday of his career and gave very little in return. And I don't think Sean Payton would be quite like that, but he is getting closer to his 60s. And if golf is mentioned in the article, that's a red flag.

I don't want him. I mean, Parcells only took that Cowboys job prior to the dollar. The Dolphins won to pay off his divorce. So, I mean, not only, but that was a large motivating factor. Guys, you're breaking the myth for me. Bill Parcells only worked super hard, and he was super about the game and motivation. You're telling me he was just a person? Oh, no.

He was just a selfish guy. Who our guest earlier in this offseason, Mike Westoff, had some rough things to say about, including off air. We can't repeat that. But I do apologize, Clayman. I cut you off in the middle of that. But that is the first time someone's ever cut you off from Tokyo live on air. So that's great. We're breaking new ground.

I don't mind. Cut me off whenever. Okay. I don't know what's coming up. By the way, you're wearing a plain white tea. Are plain white tea is making a comeback right now? Because I've been wearing a lot of plain white teas. I've been wearing plain black teas for about 10 years.

And I did decide this summer. It's like time to mix it up. Now it's all about the plain white tea. It's the color temperature of the sunlight coming through. It's actually a light blue. So, when you say that, I can see that. I would have thought it was white too, but you're right. And don't take fashion cues from me, Greg.

I know nothing about fashion. I actually rejected as a concept. So I just put this shirt on because it's comfortable. Well, I'm colorblind and my family rejects me as a concept for that reason many times. They make fun of me. It's real. I'm really in the like my kids are in the middle of their childhood and their dad is the butt of all jokes like section of my life.

So that's what this trip is. Well, I think colorblindness is often funny. to children too. So that adds to it. All right, a couple of more quick news items before we get to Zach Kiefer and talk Colts. And we'll talk Andrew Luck and Colts, by the way, with them. Baker's progressive ads are over. I thought that was just noteworthy. We taped our last show before Baker had a media availability with the Panthers. Nothing big came out of that. He sort of, I guess, would set all the right things if you think there is such a thing about the Brown. didn't get too spicy.

But the most notable thing for me was he did confirm the progressive ads are over that he had pitched an idea to Progressive of doing like some moving out of the stadium, which I, hey, you don't blame him. He's one of the finest actors of our generation. And I think the idea would have worked, but Progressive said no, Mark. Are you and your children disappointed? Mine are. They love those ads.

I grew to not like them because I think the thing, And I think Claibon, and I've talked about this before, where these ads need to be scaled down when the player is going through a traumatic season where it's like, oh, your team's down 30 to 7 and now here's a whimsical ad about you eating breakfast with Bernie Cozor in the stands. I don't need that.

So it's like less than more. The other thing is we will talk Andrew Luck in a minute. In one of those great six episode pods that Zach did, I'd mention that Andrew Luck as a first round pick, simply refused and turned down millions and millions of now. national ad dollars because he's like, I'm not doing this till I know I'm a good quarterback in the NFL. It's like, okay, that's the other way to go. I mean, Baker, you know, that rookie season, I think set him up to fly as a national sponsor. But I thought they were

often egg in the face compared to what was happening with the team on the field outside of that playoff year. Which is why you shoot two commercials, right? Every commercial we have a good and a bad and you roll the bad commercials, the game's bad and the good commercials the game is good. I think it's kind of the theme of the off season is people not wanting Baker anymore and progressive to be that final strike in that aspect that had to be tough for. I think it was good, though, that first of all, take the money. There's an argument to be made take it because you don't know. And your opportunities might be in a short window for Baker. Not everyone could be Andrew Luck on the purity scale with that too. I get that.

Didn't somebody complain about luck doing our commercial in his rookie year? I feel like, I feel like that was a story. You know, they did try to compare, and as Mark mentioned, Zach's podcast kind of broke up this dichotomy. People, including Wes a little bit, I remember, or I think we talked about at the podcast, would talk about how much RG3 had a million ads that. Yeah, it was RG3, the contrast. But maybe there was one.

Also, Luck might have known his strengths and weaknesses. Like Baker was smart to do that because I think he might have set up future work, whether it's in advertising or just acting. I think Andrew Locke knew that probably wasn't going to be his strength. as an actor on commercials, he probably would have been awkward, and it's fine. I also like Baker's total, I wouldn't say disregard of Sam Darnold. They talked about, you know, competition, all this, but he made it very clear that he expects to start week one against the Browns, and he's looking forward to that game, which is sort

of putting Darnold to the side. And I don't blame him too much for that confidence. I think he'll be starting that game, too. Final couple stories, quick one. Rodney Hudson's future up is up in the air and Arizona. I only threw this one out there because, A, he's like a really good center and was key to their season last year. But B, it was interesting to me how social media can shape a story. They sent out a tweet this week that said, like, getting ready for the 2022 season, like, ready to protect or whatever.

And they just sent out their four starting offensive linemen without Rodney Hudson. Why did they do that? Maybe don't send that tweet. Because it's like, people didn't need Justin Pugh. in a hype tweet on July 12th. They sent out the four, but they left Hudson out. It's just like, no, just send out one of them. Send out Calvin Beech him by himself.

So they send out the four without Hudson. And I think pro football talk was the one that noticed this. So I'll give them credit on that. They also are in the practice of sending out happy birthday tweets. And Hudson shared a birthday with another member of the roster. I need to, I should find it now. A lower level meant like a friend. I wasn't familiar with this man, but he shared a birthday with him.

They sent out the birthday tweet to him, but not to Rodney Hudson, whose birthday was also that same day Tuesday. So something's going on there. It's just something to watch. It's actually one of the only contractual or disagreement sort of battles, I think, that might go into the season. It's very rare that actually happens, but it wouldn't surprise me if we mention this as an aside on August 30th that this is still happening. And one little note, because, I mean, the Cardinal, were hot on it. We were hot on their trailer out of the gate last year. I thought they were fascinating and they really crumbled, but a big part of it beyond, you know, the injury to D'Andre Hopkins

was when Rodney Hudson went out, they won the first two games, one against the Houston Texans, and they beat up on the Browns, and the Browns were in a bad spot. Then they lost the next three without Rodney Hudson, and he was a huge part of it. And so they don't really have anyone on the roster right now to fill in for him. So I do wonder, because we've wondered if J.C. Tredder might wind up somewhere. They're going to have to find someone to replace them because that's a major gaping hole for the Arizona Cardinals. He's on $10 million, so they should just either figure out what's going on. I'm guessing he wants to be paid more, which makes sense,

considering what centers are making. He's one of the best ones out there. Well, there's Chuck Harris from USA Today had a tweet, said, followed up on Rodney Hudson's status, asked if he was done in Arizona and was told believe so. So I don't know if it's just simply a quick fix with money. We'll see. By the way, the other player, I shouldn't disrespect this man, Majai Sanders, who it was a third round draft pick this year, a linebacker.

So, you know, has a promising career and does deserve to be wished a happy birthday. Yes, but Rodney was here first. Right. So happy birthday. Right. To Majai. I just want to say like we're like a lower level player. No wonder we don't know him.

He's a third round rookie. He hasn't played quite yet. Finally, Mitchell Schwartz has retired. Happy trails to him. one of the best right tackles of his generation missed last year. Really a back injury ended his career a little early, but he had a great run there with the Browns. And then Levyon Bell says he's sitting out 2022 to focus on boxing.

He's boxing Adrian Peterson coming up, Claybon, something I never thought I'd say. I guess like someday we'll have like a, we'll talk about Leveon Bell's retirement, but this feels like this is basically the end of his career. What a weird career. But for three or four years, one of the most dynamic running backs I've ever seen in my entire life. He'd been at his peak,

I would say top five running back I've seen in the last 15 years. And which right is another reason to hate the tag because we really got robbed of a season of Levion Bell when he was at his peak. And it would have been nice to watch a really good football player play football. But there was this opportunity to not pay him.

And so they took it. Yeah, he sort of expressed some regret, I think, about that. I don't know if you would say regret, but he said he would handle some things differently on Twitter this week when it came to 2018 if he could go back and do it again. I don't know what that would be. Well, and the way he said it, Greg, you said, like if I had a legit time machine to go back to 2018, that would be so lit. That's what he put in his retirement statement.

Which a lot of people would take that opportunity, right, short of erasing children. Right. No, I would too. I feel the hands of time bearing down on me more every day. I'm definitely going to be one of those older people that just thinks about death all the time because I'm 43 now. It's okay. I think it's a way to enjoy life while you're here too, like be appreciative of every day is be conscious that it won't last forever.

But 43 is at the point where it's like, well, you do the math and there's a solid, you know, there's always a solid chance. more than halfway. But even if you have good health, like, you might be after halftime here. You might have just, you know, they might have just done the halftime show. You might be like starting that first third quarter drive, something like that. I'm just, these were the type of pep talks that Greg would give me when he was my supervisor back in the day that just kind of get you, you know, ready to roll. Just like, you don't know how many more seasons you're going to have, Mark. Let's really write up this story on Ben Hartsox training

camp injury. All right, that was the news. That's it. Let's take a quick break, and then we'll get to Zach Kiefer. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development

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That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is. exactly what you're going to get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the I Heart Radio app,

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Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. I'm Zach Kiefer from The Athletic, and I'm the host of a new podcast series called Luck.

It's the Andrew Luck story, as you've never heard it. The series looks to answer this question. How did the greatest quarterback prospect since John Elway, the very player the Colts moved on from Peyton Manning for, end up walking away from the game before he was 30 years old? All right, we are excited to welcome in Zach Kiefer. I led into the break kind of with some existentialist talk. What is life?

really mean. How do you maximize that time? Do you do it through finding meaning through work? I do. I mean, I at least feel like that's an important part of life. Otherwise, it'd be too much time to kill. I think Zach Kiefer being here talking about Andrew Luck is the perfect guy to let us know. Because when I think Andrew Luck, weirdly, I think he brings up, Zach, more existentialist questions than most NFL superstars of the last, you know, a couple of decades. Let me ask you guys this. So you heard there's a six-part series coming out on Andrew Locke, three years after he retired, he hasn't said a word in retirement.

Like, what's your first reaction? Is it like curiosity? Is it disdain? Is it ambivalence? Like, should people care about them? I'm just curious. What do you guys think? You know, I knew we were doing this today.

So I had a big wide berth of time because we're doing the show much later than we normally do. And I was like, I want to research this properly. And it was you and you've done great work with us in the past and your piece on West. I knew from a writing and research angle that you were going to deliver. I found myself initially being like, I kind of feel like I know everything about it. Not everything, but I kind of have a sense of Andrew Locke. And it was around episode 2.5. And I will show you something right here.

I don't know if you can see this, but this is like my little tracker that shows how long I walk today. I put on the AirPods and walked 4.5 miles just listening to these episodes back to back Because I think it became more and more layered. And I just find Andrew Luck a perfect contrast of the modern day quarterback who is not just a robot stuck in the game. But beyond that, you really hit on from a football side, which I kind of think I forgot about because he retired at a young age and you start to have an idea of Andrew Luck, maybe not loving the game as the next person. It was DeQuelle Jackson who said outside of Frank Gore, no one had a greater passion for football. No one found more joy in it. is competitive nature. I think there was the line about the monster that lurks within

from David, from David Shaw. Like, I mean, all the stuff I found out from a football angle, but also the personal angle. It's like, it is a must listen if you want to just deep dive on the life of an NFL quarterback that made a really unusual decision. Yeah, that's a great point, Mark. Like, there's this great duality with Andrew Luck, right? Like, does he love football? He walked away young. But, like, you just heard from Dequel Jackson, like, Andrew Luck love football so much that it made him question if he loved football enough and he was a 10-year linebacker in the league and he ran counter to all these stereotypes like he was this star quarterback in texas but like he was the valedictorian and he went to stanford and he was an architecture

major and he didn't really care if he won the heisman and then he was in the NFL and he had this little velcro wallet with his college logo on it he was a millionaire and he had this velcro wallet and he had a flip phone and everyone knows about the flip phone but like his teammates would get pissed off because they would send him pictures and they he couldn't open up the pictures. Like, he genuinely didn't care about the nonsense. Like, he just didn't. And he cared about football. And there's this great Matt Hasselbuck quote. He said, like, a lot of guys in this league just love being in the NFL. Not all of them love football. There's a difference. And luck was the latter. He loved football. And his career is just, I think the podcast does two

things. If it does it, well, it explores the personality and how he's unique. And it also explores his career, the Peyton Manning thing, and that's really unique, too, to me. Yeah, it's an opportunity to not just look at Andrew Luck in his career, but football in the way that we perceive it, right? And what got me interested was the first ad that I heard and shout out, right, to, you know, Zach, if you were a part of putting it together, because it immediately got to the core of me, right? What if the Colts had protected Andrew Luck? And this uniquely gifted football player that we were able to watch, but so much, many different aspects were striking against the person that he is. And there was this whole

conversation about the player and the way he went about it and like what loving football actually is. But Andrew never got to be a part of that discussion. Right. And so like to have him be able to be a part of that after the fact, I think it's good because it's there are so many different things that go into this game from a player's perspective that we don't really get because of the atmosphere and attitude surrounding the game. And so any time that we can turn and look at football in the mirror is a good opportunity that we should take. Oh, yeah.

I mean, to answer your question, Zach, I was like, oh, this is a great idea. I mean, because he's one of the most fascinating characters that we've had in the NFL, because he was one of the most fascinating players. Unfortunately, just the way my simple mind works and probably the... There's other people like it. If he wasn't one of the most dynamic, exciting players on the field, and I would put him right there to me with Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson as just like as a player, just as exciting as any player.

Justin Herbert, I'd throw in there now too as just that I've seen come into the league in the last 15 years. Maybe I'm not quite as interested, even though I know he's so interesting as a person and he's a unique guy, but the fact that he was that good, that he gave that much joy to me watching and thought, well, this is perfect. And I thought of Wes, and it's interesting because, you know, listeners might not be familiar. Zach wrote a great piece about Wes and the athletic, and we talked to him for a long time about that, and he did a great job with that.

So we associate Zach with Wes too, but I associate Andrew Luck with Wes because not only was West, like a huge, huge fan of luck as a player immediately. He was sort of fascinated by him. I think he saw the story of luck as fascinated. And I think he saw him as the next great NFL player from minute one. I started doing this article called QB Index in 2012, and it was just following that rookie draft class. So I watched everything. And he was such a fascinating player. So I put that all together. And I'm like, I was glad you were doing it. And even then, to Mark's point, I sort of felt like I knew luck, but I kind of forgot the timeline of it all. You know, I forgot how strange it was that it was the calf and the ankle injury and how

surprising that was and how the 2018 season when he came back from those two lost years, really almost three lost years to injury that affected him, how great he was in 2018. And that's what made the retirement all the more stunning. And so I was relearning things. I had really forgotten how crazy and how condensed the timeline of it was covering him in person, Zach, I know I'm going on here, but I kind of want to get back to something Mark said, which was the dichotomy of just like what it was like covering him. And I'm kind of thinking before the injuries came up that like he was like a cocky MFer

on the field, you know, and sort of what that dichotomy was like where like it was such a different person off the field but he's like he played like a cocky guy like he played like he thought he was the best player in the league when he was on the field he couldn't hide that that's the great contradiction right he's this goofy nerdy architecture major who has this goofy laugh and would use words like modus operandi and perpetuity and press conferences and then after the press conference gaggle breaks up he'd come up to me and say hey did i use that right like i've been waiting in weeks to try and use that. And I'm like, you're the weirdest dude.

And then you hear David Shaw describe him as this monster who's going to kill you and then step over you after he killed you. And there's the scenes from his first game at Stanford when he runs right into the safety when he's supposed to go out of balance. And he runs off the field and he goes, I know, I know, I know. I'm supposed to avoid the contact. And Shaw's like, yeah, we design plays so you don't get hit. And he's like, I just had to get hit, man.

I just had to get hit. So like both of those things were at war. And it's really like the story of his career is this like goofy nerve. But inside he was kind of like this beast who could have played tight end, could have played linebacker. I mean, he would drill linebackers to the turf and then help them up off the field and say good hit. Like, we're going to see another Andrew Luck? Like he was one of a kind in a lot of ways.

And I'm not allowed to take my reporter hat off. But let's just say I did back in the day. It's fun as hell to watch that dude play. Like those teams were not good. That Colts team was not good in 20. They won 11 games, 7 at the buzzer because this rookie quarterback was insane. I think one thing that you really educate people on, too, because no injuries are more hidden in the NFL than quarterback injuries in general. You find out later that, you know, someone was playing with this leg malady that they could barely walk.

And, you know, they took to Andrew Luck's recovery was almost done in covert fashion where he'd be in before other players taking every type of shot. And they, you know, they would be a fraternity where normally they would say, I'm going through something and you know it. But in this case, it was very much hush, hush. And you described in words a couple times that at the end, you saw a man who'd been drowning for four years through this pain. And that the fun, all this joy that he brought, the Frank Gore level joy, turned into a daily hell. And I really learned from that. And I do wonder, just because I also found out that he and I went to the same school in England, that American school. I mean, and his whole childhood was so different.

Like the little nugget about watching Adam Vinatari in a worldly game. And then in his first ever win as a starter, Adam Venetary 17 later is kicking the field goal. He just had his dad had a lot to do with that too. But his childhood, his early path, did that contribute at all to making peace with an early retirement versus I'm just going to gut this out for more money and just do what I can to do? Don't you think it did? I do. Yeah.

Don't you think that shaped everything? Like, you heard Tevita Pritchard, who was the quarterback at Stanford that lost his job to Andrew, be like, make pop culture references when Andrew was in college. And Andrew's like, what are you talking about? Like, he was reading the Game of Thrones books before it was even a show. Like, he's just different. Like, I was, when I met with him a couple of months ago, you know, I was reading this book and I'm like, I'm going to get him.

Like, I'm going to name this book he's never heard of. And I named it. And he's like, oh, he named the author right away. And I'm like, man, like, you know, like, you know, like, you can't even get that past him. And I think it plays into everything. He was very worldly. Like his view of vacation is very different from what an NFL player's view is.

And I remember looking at him that night, the night he retired. And it wasn't just the physical pain. He was mentally beaten down. And it made me think, like, what do these guys owe us? What do they owe the fans? What do they owe the league? Do they owe this idea that they're supposed to play as long as they can? and they're supposed to, you know, Y.A. Tittle, walk off the field, blood dripping down their forehead.

Like, what are they supposed to? What's the script? And this career didn't follow the script. And I asked myself to this day, like, he's 29 years old. He walks away 15 days before the season opener. Like, how did we get here? Like, how did this guy that they moved on from Peyton Manning for? And that's episode two. Like, it's hard to nationally put that into context. Like, you don't move on from Peyton Manning for. like he was the whole city he was like the mayor and they did and it was the right football move but like how did we get here and that's kind of what we try to answer but that's a good point you made mark like it starts in london it starts in germany it starts in this overseas childhood that makes him see the world a little bit different i i like think though yes the background made a

difference but it seemed like he was just kind of heartbroken and i guess that because i think people conflate that okay he has these other interests he's smart he had you know he can do other things in his life so he can walk away from the game in a way others can i don't know like you tell me if i'm wrong but i feel like that's sort of misreading it it just felt like his heart was broken like sort of by the injuries that he that he and i think this has happened to other players probably too they're just not in the same position as andrew luck that that that he did love the game so much that like that that entire process with the shoulder which you that's what I really learned more than anything and this is it's a great it's a six-part podcast it flies by really quick I think the pacing

is really good Zach like it didn't feel like like it always felt like it was really moving forward quickly you did a great job with that but it just felt like he loved it so much it was almost like this thing that he loved that total that sort of didn't love him back and at that moment, his heart was just broken and that he sort of loved it so much that he couldn't do it again, that it was over, that it wasn't about like that he had other interests. It was almost that he just, he felt too strongly about it that he couldn't continue. And I think that that somehow makes like sense as a human. I looked at him that night and I remember telling myself, football has been beaten out of him. Like, that's what happened. It's, it's the kidney, it's the calf,

it's the ankle it's the throwing shoulder that's torn for four years it's the it's the it's the i'm missing a body part but name one and he's he's busted it up um yeah i mean gregg but here's the thing like and i go back to this a lot like nobody retires from a calf injury like a calf strain right wasn't the shoulder that that did it like the shoulder recovered from you i mean he nearly walked away at age 28 from the shoulder and he came back and he had this great season and like everything looked great with frank rick they were getting the ball out fast frank's got these crossing routes like the offense just made sense they they get quentin nelson and they've got this line that protects him and he makes you know he's an NFL comeback player of the year and like

i wrote in 2018 like the future of the a fc is patrick mahomes and andrew luck and i thought it was and to your point like why not just rehab why not just rehab for six weeks why not just rehab for two months. Why not take a year off and come back? That's why this doesn't make sense. And he was working like crazy to come back until the last minute, like crazy. And it just, I've never been as surprised in my life as I was when I read that to me. And seeing, right, seeing that rehab process play out those. And we've kind of seen a corollary where Cam Newton undergoes shoulder surgery and we see him come back and there's a similar path, right? There's the lack of velocity. There's this question of how how is this player in this part of his career going to reconcile being a

different type of player and from the outside looking in and I apologize I haven't been able to get into the pod just yet but but I do wonder how much of playing like if I were to go on to a basketball court right now and try to play pickup there's things that I can't do now right that I remember being able to do and when you're Andrew luck and when you're out there against professionals and you're thinking about things that you can't do anymore even at 28 years old, how much that plays in to a decision of whether you want to do this anymore when you can be good at other things, right? And you recognize and you have the privilege because of where you've come from, because of who you are, that you feel like you can make

this decision and you're financially capable of doing so. That was my view from the outside looking in. If I can't be Andrew Luck, then I'm going to go be Andrew Luck in all the other parts of my life. That's a really good point because that's something he said the night he walked away was, I don't want to be 75%. Like, this team can't handle. Like, that's not good enough for me and it's not good enough for them. Now, 75% of Andrew Lux, better than 100% of a lot of guys. Jacoby Brisset, who started that year.

But I want to mention one thing that happened the year before when he was coming back from the shoulder. Everything was fine physically, but mentally he wasn't there yet. Like that cockiness, that swagger that all these alpha-type guys have. And he goes up to Tom House who brought him back, the throwing guru. and he says, am I ever going to be great again? Am I ever going to be myself again? And so he had to go through that. And you would just think that Andrew Luck shows up on a football field.

And if he's physically healthy, he's a badass. But like in his head, he had lost all that confidence, all that confidence. And I think that is a really good point because it played into the same thing a year later when he said, if I'm dealing with this foot and if I can't move in the pocket, I'm not going to be myself and I'm going to start to hate myself again. And the mental struggle was real. Like he was in some dark places. And that's something not a lot of athletes.

talk about but that's a really relevant thing here right i think um you did a great great job painting the picture when he was in the netherlands and and he and he actually had a long conversation with you i think it was the next off season coming back talking about how dark that place was in that and even then and i think when tom house talked about it it felt like luck was still he struggled to talk about the mental side of things. And I, listening to him, you know, and you can understand it, he sounded like someone who is depressed and was struggling with everything that was going on. And that might have played a part of the retirement. I know you had sort of an off-the-record long meeting with Andrew Luck. I am curious, like for at least what you can say. Like, how do you think he's doing

now? Like, how do you think he's doing in retirement? Like, I want to, I want to believe in a happy and your luck and that it's going well. You can. You can. That's good. It was a great meeting. Like it kills me that it was off the record. I get that.

But I'm going to honor that. He wanted it to be off the record. He's doing great. Like I got no sense at any point that he was thinking about coming back, that he's ever thought about coming back. But the funny thing is like none of the story followed the script. And even to this day, it still doesn't all add up like you think it would. Like he lives five minutes.

from the Colts facility. Like that threw me. They're over there trying to replace him. You know, Carson Wentz, Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan. And he's right there. Like, you could throw a baseball in probably his house. Yeah, I was surprised he lived in Indianapolis. No shade to Indianapolis.

Yeah. When it comes to Andrew Luck, I mean, what is his goal? Do you have a sense that he has like another part of his life that he wants to like go be the best at? Because I think the thing that would be hard is like to do this thing so well, have it stripped out. He had a very philosophical approach to it. I think there's a lot of hurt attached to it too.

He sounds like he's in a good place, but then what's the next thing? Because he is so young. Yeah, like, imagine being that good at something and then just not being able to do it at 29. Like, you got to pour yourself into something else. You're super competitive. Like, all these guys are like that.

I don't know. And I think he, you know, this is my words, not his, but I think he struggled with that. Like, I think, like, Andrew Luck is still like this. ghost in Indianapolis like I'll get text messages like I saw him at the grocery he's alive like the specter of Andrew luck has kind of become this like mystery in Indianapolis and like what does he do to fill the days like he's got like money's not an issue for the rest of his life like but that's not ever what's made him happy so that's another layer to this that I find so

fascinating like what would you do if he had all the money in the world but no outlet no purpose you know he stayed at home and he's you know he's got a two-year-old daughter and um like that's been a big part of his life for real it absolutely has but that's what i'm excited to see next and he started to come out of hibernation he started to show his face a little bit more he thought about doing the podcast he really did i thought he was going to do it but then he ultimately declined so um but that's a good point mark and like i don't only he can answer that you know like he's he's going to have to do something maybe maybe it's private like i know he's given a lot he does a lot of stuff like off to the side that no one knows about but like he's just too bright you know to not do something to help

the world maybe. Right. He was majoring in architecture at Stanford. I don't know if you guys had any friends that did architecture in school, but that was the hardest major possible. It was the smartest people possible and it took the most work possible. It seemed like if you were in architecture school that you couldn't do anything else. And he was doing that while being Andrew Luck at Stanford. So maybe he should get into concrete. I don't know. It's a great series. It's a six-part series. It's called Luck on the Athletic. Zach, we want to keep you to talk a little bit about the 20-22 Colts while we have you. We're going to be selfish and take up more of your time. But before we do that, I did ask Graver to go look just for some clips of us talking luck during

his career. And this is a happier moment. This is maybe the peak of Luck's career. I think the win he had against Tennessee in 2018 to get back into the playoffs. If you remember, they started one in five that year was after he missed two years where he thought his career might even be over and he came back and he won that game. That's one peak. But I think if you think of one game of Andrew Luck, I think you think the huge wildcard comeback against the Kansas City Chiefs. Here was the around the NFL podcast reacting to that comeback. What was that now? Eight years ago. Wow. Wow. That's the only thing I could say. Andrew Luck is the first step towards legend status. is this the beginning of the Andrew Luck

arc towards greatness? Yes. Yeah. If it wasn't already, I mean, he's broken the records for comeback victories, and you just can't ever count him out. He puts the team on his back.

He starts running. He starts passing. He's physical. He does everything well. His instincts are great. That fumble play was awesome. He's 24 years old. He's not even 25 until September.

Next September. This guy, I mean, it's unreal what we're seeing at this young and age with this little experience. I can't even imagine what we're going to see five years from now. I feel like the ceiling's been taken off. There is no limitations to what this guy can be. Look at him. Look at his surrounding talent.

I like him as he was pulled what appears to be out of Amish territory. And, you know, we talked to Greg today before the Bengals game, and you said that you would rather face Andrew Luck and the Colts over Andy Dalton and the Bengals. And that shocked me because I wouldn't want to deal with Andrew Luck on any level in the playoffs. He is just flat out finding a way to win these games. What about T.Y. Hilton? Outrageous. Yeah, he's great. And they use him a lot like the Eagles used to Sean Jackson.

I mean, Andrew Luck was so good. He was almost the best quarterback in this game. Oh, damn, man. You got to get me with like two terrible takes in one little clip graver. I was a stray from Mark. I mean, not only did Mark point out that I said I'd rather play Dalton, but I just made an illusion to Alex. That does feel drug-induced. I think that was a fair question on my part. Alex Smith did play great in that game.

Poor Alex Smith has had some terrible luck over the years, too. And that was maybe the best performance of his career, too, and ended up in a losing effort because luck was so good. We're going to take one more quick break. And then, Zach, we're going to get you a few questions about the Colts, and then we'll get out of here, and I'll head back to the U.S. What's up everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here.

And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow.

We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams. put it all together on game day plus we dig in the coaching strategies roster construction and the trends that shape the league year after year whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level we give you the full picture if you want insight that goes beyond the box score this podcast is for you don't miss it listen to the move the six podcast on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Hey, this is Matt Jones.

I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining.

And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast,

your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. All right, back with Zach Kiefer. We talked luck.

There's no Andrew Luck on this team, Zach. Matt Ryan is not going to be able to do the things that Andrew Luck did. Matt Ryan should not be seeking out contact like Andrew Luck did. In fact, I think that's one of Matt Ryan's best strengths that he can avoid that contact. Him being with Frank Reich, what do you think that combination's going to be like? Like, how do you think Ryan will be different? How do you think Reich's system will be different? Because listening to the podcast, going back to the luck thing, it sort of reminded me,

Oh, man, he only had that one year with Reich. You almost forgot. And that was the most efficient year of Lux career. He got sacked the least amount in the entire league. So he totally changed who he was as a player. And it's one more piece of evidence to me that Frank Reich is one of the preeminent coaches to have if you're a quarterback. And I mean like top two or three. That's my opinion.

So how do you think that Frank Reich? system and everything is going to work with Matt Ryan. How do you think it's going to be different? Five quarterbacks in five years for Frank Wright. Like it seems like a made-up stat. You know, it's funny. I haven't thought about the current cults at all for the last three weeks because I've been on this deadline.

So yes, Matt Ryan is a quarterback. And it's crazy like during the spring, you know, talking to people around the organization, it's like they're just like laughing at how well this turned out. Like literally like there were Baker, Mayfield rumors like there were Marriota rumors like this team had no plan like they just entered pre-agency and we're like we don't really love any of these guys out there we're just going to sit and see what happens and then Matt Ryan magically sort of became available due to all the circumstances with just on Watson really yeah and then like every single word we've heard about Matt Ryan

has been unbelievable praise like he's he's a legit dude like he's he stepped in and they're just like Carson Wentz who like they're like we've got the guy. And maybe that's a little bit ahead of myself in terms of like it just seems like it fits perfectly. I don't want to drink the Kool-Aid too much because like I know how this league works, but you know, they're comparing him like Reggie Wayne. Like Reggie Wayne said this. He's like, it makes me sick how much he reminds me of Peyton in terms of a leader. They're not the same quarterback. Let's not get ahead of us. But like Matt Ryan came in and just owned the offensive meeting room. And like he's just stepped in right away. And that fast, quick release is

going to be huge. Carson, Carson Wentz made football so much harder than it needed to be last year. Like he had a beast in the backfield, Jonathan Taylor, and he has a beast in the outside and Michael Pittman. And like, Carson's got to hold on to the ball. He's got to wait and wait and try to make this heroic play. And sometimes he does, but like Matt Ryan is going to be the opposite in terms of efficiency. And I think it's, I think it's going to work. Like, Nahim Hines told a reporter a couple of weeks ago, like Matt's going to make the layups. Like, that's a telling quote. Like, Nahim Hines is a really good playmaker, and they just forgot about him last year because

Carson stopped throwing to him. And so I think Matt Ryan is going to run the offense Frank Reich once, and I think it's going to be a lot more efficient, maybe a little bit less splash than Carson, but like I feel like it's just a, it fits like a perfect glove. You know, check with me in October. I might look like an idiot. I would ask you this, then, because you're right. On this show a couple months ago, we went through all the quotes about Matt Ryan, and they

are glowing does not do service for what they are. are. I mean, it's almost like a... We're not even asking these questions either. Sometimes they just say them. They're offering them up and it's so glowing and so gushing that I, all I would ask is if you're Jim Ursay and you're hearing all this information, we've got our guy. We've got Peyton Manning the leader. Matt Ryan can still play. It's such an upgrade. We gave you what you wanted. Now, if you're Jim Ursay, and I, because the culture seems really good inside team walls. I mean, Chris Ballard, everyone views them as a top flight GM. We all love Frank Reich. But if they go and win nine games, is there a scenario where the pressure inside this building turns up higher than people

expected? Yeah, yeah, it needs to. One playoff appearance since Andrew Luck retired, zero playoff wins. And they've had some good teams. Like, I'll give them credit. Like, it was a stunning retirement. It was historic. Like, a lot of teams would have cratered, right? I mean, they just would have. They didn't, but they also haven't won enough. And Ersei's pissed, man. Like, Versa's pissed. Like he ripped into his scouts and his staff when they lost the Titans last year, two in a row. Like they can't beat Vrable and the Titans. And the Titans took a step back on paper, but I'm a little hesitant to count them out because Vrable's so good.

And he gets as most out of his roster as just about anybody. And the Colts have just found a way to shrink in those moments against that team. So they've got to win the AFC South. And if they don't, you know, Reich and Ballard are on these extensions through like 26. but you know they they the Andrew luck get out of jail free card is over like it's done like there's no more leniency with that they need to win they screwed up with the Carson wins trade they got out of it miraculously like the move ballard made getting too like come on like that's insane but they got to win man they need to be playing into January this year for sure one one thing

you said Zach that makes me wonder about this franchise especially coming off the luck discussion, right, was they didn't have a plan, right? And then the Deshawn circumstance happens and they wind up with Matt Ryan. But this continues to happen to this franchise where they're in a situation where they don't have a plan. They wing it and they make it work. What needs to change for them to have a consistent plan, not just at the position, but maybe let's say they do eventually find the universe hands them another generational quarterback. What's it going to take for them to have a plan the next time. I can't wait for you to listen to the podcast because we've been asking

Ballard this question for three years and at one point he just kind of lost it and he goes look everybody wants me to pick a quarterback but if you rush into it and pick the wrong guy everyone's going to run my ass out of town and he's right so like maybe winging it is a little bit of a stretch because they haven't panicked right they haven't had a good draft pick like they just haven't like they traded one first round pick for DeForest Buckner you can't really knock him for that he's a monster you can knock him for the Carson-Winstrap. They didn't have a first-round pick this year. So they've just tried to fix the hole without making it worse long-term, and they're not going

to jump until they're ready to jump. They need to find the long-term guy. But Matt Ryan's here for two years, and Ursa's thinking three or four. Now, he's an optimist, and I don't know about that. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. But if this goes well this year, there's no reason why this can't be a two-to-three-year thing, and that gives them some time to find the next guy. But like Ballard said, they're living like the other half of the world now. They don't have a top pick with Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning, and this is what everyone else in the NFL has to do, unless you're the Green Bay Packers. Well, but the Green Bay Packers used to be run by Ron Wolf and Ted Thompson had the same philosophy as Ron Wolf when he took over, which

was take a quarterback every single year. So it's like, you could start doing that. You don't have to take them in the first round. Take a third, take a second, take a six. Maybe it's not, and they've taken a couple eight rounds, but just like. Sam Ellinger, Jacob Isons with the Seahawks now. I get it. It's like, but you can try. And I think they need to keep trying during the Matt Ryan era. But I'm optimistic. I actually noticed their over under win total moved up to 10. So the optimism for the Colts is nationwide.

Only five teams in the NFL have a higher over under win total. Now, they're tied at 10 with like six or seven teams are right at 10. But that's telling to me, the schedule plays a big part of that. I'm sort of on that train too. The offseason is so damn long that we start going against the opinions we had initially. I was like, actually, the Colts roster isn't as good as it used to be. Let's not get too carried away. But now I'm back on the Colts train.

The secondary feels like it's totally boom or bust. But they feel like they should be the favorites. And I think they have a chance to win some playoff games this year. Yeah, I mean, like the last time they played football was atrocious. It was one of the worst losses I've ever seen watching this team 30 years. I mean, the way they lay down on Jacksonville. So, yeah, I mean, you had in Gacway, and that's the one thing this defense really needed. They needed a pass rusher, and Gokway's probably just pencil him in for 10 sacks.

They had to Gilmore in the back end. Can he still play? I think so. Various Leonard's a question mark, though, because he's coming off this weird back surgery that's supposed to alleviate pain in his ankle. And, I mean, he was a freak last year. Like, he had like 15 turnovers by himself, but he was playing on one leg. And this ankle thing keeps being an issue.

And that's, I mean, he's their best. player besides Jonathan Taylor. So I don't know. I think that's the fun part about training camp. It's like we don't know. And this team could be like seven wins or they could be like 12 wins. Yeah. And we will be tracking it all.

It's happened. I've kept everyone too long. You know, Claiborne's got his son is running around the room. My kids are now up. Zach's, it's dinner time in Indianapolis. What a lovely boy there in the backer. Mine are like two minutes from burging in.

So I feel the pain. So we should take off. Zach, thank you for joining us. Again, the series, luck. It's all six episodes are out. You can find it wherever you get your podcast feeds. And we've got the lovely, both Claibon kids are here. Thank you, Patrick, as well.

Why don't we all say goodbye together? Just say goodbye. Thanks, Zach. Thanks, Claybone. Appreciate you, Zach. Can we get the kids on the mic or no? There we go. again that was Zach Kiefer Mark I said like maybe we'll do 45 50 minutes today we don't have that

much to talk about and now it's like an hour 10 I believe you know what it's because we enjoy the roles that we play I'll say it that way why make it 40 minutes when we can make it 64 minutes so I just wanted to jump in to point out that Zach said good point mark or great point mark three times and I really was I was thinking you might have because Mark has great points. I know. I think anyone that's listening to, I mean, he listens a little bit. He probably knows that's the quickest way to curry favor with at least one person on the panel here. Don't hit that mute button. Clayvon's hitting the mute button with the kids around. Thanks to everyone. This is a sloppy show. This is what happens when Dan is gone. Dan will be back next week.

He'll still be in Jersey, but I'll be back in L.A., and we are getting closer to all being back in the studio. I'm not sure if it's going to be Monday. or Tuesday, we will find out then, but I believe we'll have a Monday show. Claibon, we haven't seen you in like a month. It was nice to see you. I hope you've had a nice summer. I see their work and you're pretty hard, though. You know, it's good to be wanted.

You're like doing some good morning football stuff. Is that the... Yeah, coming up next week, I'll be playing the Will Selver roll. If I get to go in, we've got some pending tests in the house. Okay, that's... Knock on wood there. Things don't change. The more things...

change the more. They stay the same. Until then, for Mark Sessler, Justin Graver, Patrick Claibon, Zach Kiefer. I'm Greg Rosenthal. See you next week. Need the call. In one of the more shocking

happenings in the NFL's recent history, Andrew Luck announces his retirement from the NFL, the Colts superstar quarterback announcing that injuries have taken the love from the game for him. So a man who's turning 30 years old on September 12th met with Colts owner Jim Ursae earlier Saturday to explain his decision. And this is Dan Hansis of the Around the NFL podcast presented by Sirius XM. I'm joined by Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, Greg Rosenthal.

And boys, this is an absolute bombshell that changes the complexion of the Colts, obviously, but the AFC and Wes, luck. Nobody knew this was coming. We were at Patrick Claibon's shrimp oil, in fact,

in the middle of a cornhole game and everyone was just dumbfounded and you could say the same thing about everyone else connected to football, Andrew Luck, done at age 29 in the NFL. When you're recording the show, what, 36 hours later, you're reacting to so much more than just the news. You're reacting to the reaction.

You're reacting to what you should have seen for three years, considering the comments he's made. And just looking, doing the research on what he said over the last few years, this is every bit as much of a mental health issue as a pain issue, as a physical issue. As Jim Ursay said in 2017, it's about the four-inch field. between Andrew Luck's ears. And Ursae took a lot of crap for that from people who didn't know what they were talking about and assumed they did from the outside looking in. But in Luck's own words, he is referred to the dark place, not a fun world to live in, scared to my core, a low point, miserable SOB, I withdrew, my life was empty,

I have shame, I don't know about my worth as a human, I'm weathered and less naive. And then at the press conference, he said, this is the only one. way I see out of it. And out of it is the severe depression and identity crisis that he's been going through for three years. And he said that already a weight had been lifted. And even though the press conference, Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies

to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season?

Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strength. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL, visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. This is an IHeart podcast.