NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Franchise Tag Primer, Aaron Rodgers’ Future and Kobie Turner Joins the Show!

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Nick Shook to get you up to speed on all you need to know heading into the franchise tag window around the NFL. First, a look at some news that popped up around the league during Super Bowl week including Aaron Rodgers' future with the Jets (01:30) and Deebo Samuel's future with the 49ers (06:50). Then, a look at players around the league who Gregg and Nick think have a good shot at getting tagged, may get tagged, and are a possibility including Tee Higgins (09:50), Sam Darnold (17:40), Zach Baun (20:08) and more! Finally, Rams DT Kobie Turner joins the show to talk about his time on The Masked Singer and how Aaron Donald helped him become the player he is today. (28:58). Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're recreating Monday nights on Thursday mornings. Yes, I'm here with my Monday night. buddy, Nick shook. And we're going to start really diving deep into the off season. We're going to talk about franchise tags, Nick.

We're also going to throw to an interview we did last week with Kobe Turner, Jordan Rodrigan, I, that I really enjoyed. But it is great to be talking to you, Nick. I know you're playing hurt. Everyone got, everyone has a flu game this week coming home from New Orleans. Yeah, yeah, we're all battling something that we picked up. I mean, I guess it's not a week in New Orleans if you don't board the flight back with chills. But we're here, baby. we're working. I know. Our producer, Eric, got stuck at the airport for about seven hours after

staying up all night because it was a 6 a.m. flight. That's a disaster. And apparently everyone is playing hurt right now. Not feeling strong. My poor son Walker puked in the cab on the way to the airport and on the plane. There was something going on in that Superdome other than the most dominating defensive performance I've ever seen. Look, Nick, we're going to get right into it. We're going to talk a little news, like I said. We're going to talk some tag primer, and I'm looking forward to everyone hearing this Kobe Turner interview that was so good that I just wanted to save it because I thought it was going to get lost last week. It had nothing to do with the Super Bowl, so our listeners hopefully will enjoy that. But let's talk about a couple news items that dropped

before the Super Bowl that I thought were worth actually mentioning. And the first is that Aaron Rogers, it started with Jay Glazer, is unlikely to be back with the J. Glaser, is unlikely to be back with the Jets next season. After Glazer first reported this, basically every insider had a version of this story. They all agreed. And it really sounds like Rogers is done with the Jets, which to me is a fascinating decision. And I'm actually a little surprised. Maybe I shouldn't be. I mean, I felt like any time that a new regime was coming in, which obviously the Jets have one, that they'd be inclined to move on because he's not their guy. He's also 41 years old. And there's no real future with him. But you did think,

bridge quarterback for a year. You don't have your replacement on the roster right now. You're not quite in a position to draft one unless maybe things change in that regard. So that's where the surprise does land, but otherwise, I mean, he spent weeks, if not months, talking about, yeah, I'd love to be

back if they'll have me and ultimately it seems like they won't have him. And there's some debate whether it's his choice, their choice, both are choice, mutual choice, Diana Rossini of the Athletic had a great little item that the Jets said, if you are going to come back, you would have to be at all the mandatory practices. You would have to give up your Pat McAfee show, which is really intriguing and basically saying, like, this is not

going to be the regime that kind of bows to Aaron Rogers, which is really interesting because any team now that you think about that wants to bring him in, he comes with a lot of baggage. Yeah, baggage is exactly what I would expect or what I was thinking too. Luggage, plenty of luggage there, and some of it not really necessary or would fit the plan of most of these teams. I think you accept that if the guy is 35 or even 38 and gives you a chance to win a Super Bowl, but he's beyond that now. So I understand that.

It's just now who's going to be willing to at this point? I like his baggage. that's that's jerry jones uh last week i feel like we're going to be reusing that one a lot part of the fascination to me with rogers is just yes the negatives do not make it worth bringing him back in my mind i think they're making the right choice but then when you look at all the quarterbacks that are available we're going to talk about sam darnold and you look at the season rogers had and you squint hard it's like well there's about seven or eight teams that need quarterbacks and he's still one of the better ones that are just available.

So it wouldn't have surprised me. It would have been a very Jets move to keep him. I thought it was interesting, though, that Ian Rappaport, our insider said with Rogers likely not returning, it could be a package deal that Devante Adams is also unlikely to be back. And while Rogers has no trade value, I don't think. I think they're going to have to cut him because of his contract. Look, the Jets just gave up something for. Devante Adams six months ago, less really. I actually think looking at Devante Adams' contract,

they could get something for him and that he potentially would be a trade target versus a release. But to me, that report indicates, like, they believe in Garrett Wilson as their future. He was maybe honking about possibly getting traded out of there by the end of that season. And maybe getting rid of Adams just kind of clears the deck. And I actually think he, He can provide some value for a team out there, certainly, maybe as a number two receiver instead of as a clear number one. It seems crazy to me that he would just be a packaged deal at this point of his career with Aaron Rogers, but who knows, these two dudes are a little weird.

Yeah, I mean, I know he's north of 30, and folks are going to wonder about the long-term viability. I get that. And the number's high. Like, the existing cap number right now going into 2025 is $38.2 million dollars, that's high. It's a $35 million-based salary. so I maybe a lot of negotiation there like you're going to have to convert a lot of

that into bonus tack on void years and then you're paying in the future for what you're getting immediately and what are you getting but at the same time I still think that he is valuable he proved that down the stretch with Rogers with some of the plays that he made there was a there was a stretch in a couple of games where he became devante Adams again I think he still carries value the package deal idea makes it a little bit harder to figure out because you're you're narrowing the pool of potential suitors but I think Adams on his own, definitely still carries some value. It's just that how do you negotiate or navigate that contract? Although the more, the more I look at it, a $35 million base, I thought it was

a lower base and the Jets had already paid more of a upfront money. That's a lot for Devante Adams. Now, would a team just so that they don't have to negotiate with them be willing to pay $35 million in 2025? It's kind of like a one-year deal and they give up a fifth to seventh swap and the Jets just get something out of it, which is better than nothing. That's possible, but it's also very possible. Devante Adams and Aaron Rogers both just get cut together, which is by the New York Jets, which is a crazy sentence to imagine if you're in the year 2021 when Aaron Rogers is winning MVP's and Devante Adams is the best wide receiver in football. But this is how it ends for even the greatest of players. Debo Samuel over the weekend made it clear through reporting, which you

have to assume is approved by his agent or straight out pushed by his agent or maybe by the 49ers. Either way, he's getting traded. He's on the trade block. He asked for a trade. I'm going to do a show talking a little bit about trade candidates on Friday morning. Bill Barnwell's on that show. Really looking forward to that. So we'll dive into more of the particulars, but it really feels like this is the end shook of Debo in San Francisco. Not totally shocking when you look at what else is going on on that roster. Yeah, and I think they made their decision when they paid Brandon Iuke last year.

Debo has also struggled with health over the last few years just in terms of availability. He's not quite the guy that unlocks the offense that he was in previous years. And they also dealt with a number of injuries. So it's kind of hard to evaluate

his value within this team, but it's pretty clear, like you said, that they're ready to move on. The difference here, though, is that financially, it doesn't seem like it's so prohibitive cost-wise. I mean, he's going into 2025 with a cap number just shy of 16.

million dollars according to over the cap that's not that high to keep somebody like that but then again i feel like they're at a point now where they just go their separate ways in both of their best interests and it sets up an interesting market for him because i think he still does carry some value if he stays healthy and there are going to be a lot of teams that are going to be interested in a player like him yeah there this is all where the agent and debo samuel and what they want to do helps determine the trade value for the 49ers now you wouldn't think they would want to do anything to help the 49ers. The reality is his contract's great.

Like he has a $5 million option bonus and a $1 million base salary. He's going to want a new contract, but he's coming off some bad years. He is not the player he used to be. I've seen some places get really excited about trading for Debo Samuel and I think he can be a good role player.

The fact that the 49ers couldn't get that much out of him consistently over the last couple of years is a huge red flag to me. And so if he wants top tier money, I'm not giving up anything in a trade really for him. And if he's willing to kind of get a little bit of money extra for this year, but it's almost a prove-it year, then a team would want to trade for him.

We'll get into that a little bit more on that trade show that I mentioned. Speaking of trades, like the off-season just doesn't wait around. Tom Pelliserro reported Jermaine Pratt, of all people, of the Bengals, has requested a trade. He's not the only Bengal that could be getting traded. We'll talk about T. Higgins in just a second talking about franchise. tags. I think Jermaine Pratt would have almost certainly been cut this year. I can't imagine that Luana Rumo loves him that the Colts are going to give up a draft pick for him. So I would think he'll just be cut. But it's trade request season. There are going to be a lot of trades. And that really

informs this franchise tag preview we're going to do right now, Nick. So I'm excited. I was saying at the end of the show with Bo Wolf, it's Greg's season. The regular season is over. I love this season. Jordan and you throughout this. It sounds ridiculous for me to say it, but I'm saying it. It's really about five weeks long. The bulk of free agency and trades will be done by about March 19th, 20th. We're taping this in the middle of February. And the first big date that kicks it off in theory is the franchise tag and that being allowed to happen.

That is actually next Tuesday where that opens up and it lasts a couple of couple of weeks there. And so in advance of the franchise tag being opened up, I thought we'd go through all the players that we can realistically expect will be tagged, could possibly be tagged, some guys that we think are interesting, that we don't think are tagged. I used to do this exercise every year on the website. And I think it's telling about this free agency class. It's not a great one. I have zero locks. I put it in a bunch of different categories. I have locks leaning yes, maybe, probably not. Usually, the top of my free agency board is just five out of the top six players are locks to be franchise tagged. Like T. Higgins a year ago was one of those guys. I literally

have no locks this year and I actually do think that is telling of a league right now, which is a locking up its players earlier than ever and there's there's not as many great talents and then b i think it's just a little random that this year doesn't happen to have any guys that are for sure getting franchise tagged yeah we're also getting contributions from younger guys like big time contributions quicker than we did in previous years or previous generations i think and that starts with young quarterbacks but it extends to playmakers that are you know stepping in especially receiver and producing right away. You can also think about a Bijon Robinson as another one.

So it kind of tips the scales away from the free agency frenzy because these guys are playing so well in these affordable contracts that by the time that they come due for free agency, a lot of these teams are locking them up, like you said, and then it takes away a little bit of the juice out of free agency. But that's never a problem for us. We're going to find the interest. No, it's still fascinating. We saw how the Eagles completely transformed their team last year.

The Ravens have completely transformed their team in back-to-back off season. and they haven't finished the job, but they've done a lot of great work that got them in position to do it. So no locks. I have three players in my leaning yes category. And you can just tell me where you disagree, what you think.

T. Higgins, Ronnie Stanley, and Sam Darnold are the three players in my leaning yes. Even since I sent you my document, I've changed my mind about one guy. T. Higgins, let's start with him, was franchise tagged last year. If they have to keep them again, it's 120% of this year's salary. Everyone is out there saying, we want to sign T. Higgins.

It's everyone's solution to their wide receiver problem. The Patriots, the Chargers. You could name about 10 teams T. Higgins would help. He'd help every team, but 10 teams where it's realistic. The more I looked at this, I'm like, why? I know the Bengals don't like, you know, paying players long term, but why not just pay T. Higgins again? or put the tag on him and trade him, which we've seen happen in the NFL more than a few times in recent years.

It happened with Legerius Sneed last year. Not exactly a Bengals forward-thinking move, and yet I think it makes sense for them. They would be able to get a draft pick for T. Higgins if they can create the space to keep him at $26.1 million in March. They have a lot going on this offseason. Maybe they don't want to do that. But I am leaning yes on T. Higgins. Yeah, I agree. And I think a lot of it comes down to market value.

You know, if 26.1 is the 120% tag that he's going to get. First off, you won't see a tag again the following year. But it makes sense even to keep him or to tag him and trade him. Because market-wise, the top annual average salary is Justin Jefferson at 35 million. 10th is Cooper Cup at 26.7 million. Right. You know the Rams are interested in moving on from him. Keeping T. Higgins at a number below that, that's great value,

especially considering how desired he is in the market, how well he played this year, how well he fits into that offense. So it makes a ton of sense for me to, well, maybe you can't figure it out long term, but one more year together. Maybe if we could just figure out those early season difficulties and make another run, absolutely. It makes a ton of sense. This one, I lean toward this happening the most out of anybody.

Wow. Okay. I'm intrigued that you're with me on this. I thought this might be controversial because the Bengals have this. let guys walk away. But then I looked at their cap space this offseason. They have it. They have $46 million in cap space.

That number is very unofficial, the 26.1. I'm going off Joel Corey of CBS Sports, who does great job doing estimated franchise techs. Now, T. Higgins' one is a little confusing because it would be 120% of his last one or the top five. So we're waiting to see what is higher there. But either way, a one-year deal, that's great bargains. Mike Brown loves a great bark and the problem is do they have the appetite for going through another

offseason of drama and T. Higgins will not be happy with this. T. Hendrickson is someone who's not happy with his contract necessarily. Jamar Chase has to get done. It actually would be a very Bengals move to just let T. Higgins walk. I don't think it's a smart move and that's why I'm only leaning yes because I think it makes a lot of sense. Ronnie Stanley, interesting one here. Now T. Higgins, my number one,

wide receiver that would be available as a free agent. Ronnie Stanley would be my number one tackle that's available as a free agent. Started out this season playing really well. According to the tapeheads, maybe didn't finish the season as strong. Has had a lot of injuries over the last few years. The Ravens don't have a ton of cap space castrapped a lot that they have to deal with this offseason. It obviously be a big number for a tackle.

it'd be $23 million or more. He also took a pay cut before last year because of his injuries, and that complicates factors where they weren't willing to pay him then. I know he's coming off a good year, but I'm only leaning, yes. If it was almost any other situation, I would assume you just would tack on another year and keep Ronnie Stanley instead of creating a big issue. Yeah, and history, I think, matters for this with the Ravens, because they've had struggles replacing tackles in the past.

It was Stanley's injuries. it was losing Alejandro Villanueva. They've had to rotate through a number of different guys to find some stability there. And they were able to benefit from it this year with Derek Henry's success and Lamar Jackson's success and everything else. But numbers-wise, after Stanley took that pay cut,

the precedent is set for him to not make that much money. And age is another factor. Even when he took that pay cut, he spoke about how you wanted to finish it the right way. So if you're looking for a one-year option, I guess it makes sense. But financially for me, the numbers don't quite make sense for me, just considering his interest.

history he'll get paid though he'll get paid so much and i know he's had a ton of injuries but it's not in the raven's history to to spend that type of money on a on a so you're saying i should put him to the maybe category which i yeah is where the beat writers would agree with you locally yeah it just doesn't make a ton of sense in terms of history and numbers wise the ravens aren't the team to spend you know recklessly like that they need them all right i'll move him to maybe sam darnold i'm leaning yes It would be a $39 million cap hit. The reason is just that he has trade value. That's it.

That they can afford to keep them in between, that they can get this thing done in time to get that money off the books. They have $58 million in cap space right now. So they could afford to do it and they could get a third round pick out of it. Now, if you're a Vikings fan, you might think, well, wouldn't we get a compensatory pick if he signs elsewhere? First of all, maybe, depends how many players you're signing. And then you also move up the window.

You get the pick faster. Everyone likes picks faster. They're also higher because the compensatory picks are at the back. You know, and that's just assuming he gets a third round pick. Maybe they could get more. If they don't feel like they could get more for Sam Darnold at $39 million, then maybe they just let him walk. The more I listened to Kevin O'Connell during Super Bowl week,

he was very careful and really left it open so that you couldn't draw major conclusions. But he did say a couple times he's earned the right to see what a Pro Bowl appearance can get him. And I just think he has about a 10% chance of being on the Vikings next year. So knowing that, how did they handle it? I think they tag and trade him. I think they get it done. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. O'Connell's kind of had that tone his voice since their season ended that it felt like it was the end for their partnership. And other teams are going to look at this as, oh, they got them on that tag. We can tag and trade. That's like the Daniel Jones value. Why not? Because other teams are desperate for quarterbacks. They can also

renegotiate their own deals and everything else. But it preserves the Vikings' ability to get something for him. So it makes a lot of sense. But I agree 10% chance that he ends up on this roster. I just think they're ready to move forward. And I would even say like if I'm putting 10% back on the roster, I'm putting 50% tag and trade, 40%. He just goes on his merry way. And they just don't get anything other than the compensatory pick, which is, which is fine. They got a lot out of them. You know, don't get greedy, Vikings fans. All right, my maybes.

Zach Bonn talked about him with Bo Wolf on our last show. Trey Smith, the excellent guard for the chiefs. Now maybe Stanley's in that group, because you did such a nice job convincing me. And Carlton Davis, I'm throwing in here for the Lions, although maybe he should be a tier lower. Let's start with Bonn, who was in my leaning year. yes before. And then as we were texting about, like the linebacker money is $25 million because

edge rushers are in there. I still am on the closer side to yes than maybe for Zach Bonn. But how I think it'll play out is they'll just get the deal done before the end of the franchise tag deadline. So they have to, you know, put the tag on them by a couple days before free agency. And they'll almost use that as an internal deadline because they're if they were forced to if they can't come to an agreement i actually do think ultimately they would just use it because you can't let sack bond out of the building that's where we're at in 2025 that's what i believe i actually think he's kind of irreplaceable for them as crazy as that sounds yeah i mean that's how well he played this year and i think that you know financially the number doesn't really make a ton of sense because like if

you look at the linebackers that compare to him position wise roquans at the top at 20 million year average annual value, right? And that's way higher. But then again, he played such an important role in this defense. He had an all pro year. He was just a transformative player that you could justify it. I think instead, what they're going to do is exactly what you just said, which is use it as a deadline, use it as a last ditch type of situation. I mean, for Zach, he's going to get paid. He made $3.5 million last year. He's way outperformed that. And I think that they understand that they need to get that deal done. They're also not operating with the most cap base. According to over the cap right now, it's $18 million going into next year.

No. We have a ton of stuff to do. I think this is just like a preservation method where they're just like, we have a lot of deals to get done. I think they'll ultimately get a deal done with him, like you said, and they just save that as a last ditch. Make sure he doesn't get out the building type of thing. Okay. Yeah. So all these free agents that people are going to see on the list, like a lot of them aren't going to get there.

March 4th is the day that you have to have a franchise tag applied by or they ultimately just enter free agency. So to me, that's like a soft deadline for them. Trace Smith, just the vibes in Kansas City all year, was that they were maybe going to let their 26, 27-year-old, you know, former all-pro, excellent pro bowl guard go. Some football heads think maybe it wasn't his best year, but I don't know if that's that important.

He's had a really great career so far. He'll make a killing on the open market, but the chiefs are kind of in that position where you can't pay everyone. So if it was any other team, I would have just said he's close. to a lock. With them, I say it's a maybe $23 million would be their franchise deck. It's a tough number to digest when they have so many things to address. But we just saw

their biggest weakness in the Super Bowl cause them to lose, which is offensive line. I'm sorry. You know me. I invest in the trenches. I think you do whatever you have to do to keep him. And I think some other contracts are going to be in play. Travis Kelsey's decision on whether he wants to play in the future or not, that could free up some cap space. There are decisions that they have to make elsewhere in order to kind of reorganize this salary caps. situation, but this is a guy you can't let leave. He's still young. He's played very well over the course of his career. It's a key position, in my opinion, and I think you have to do what you have to do to keep him. I don't know if I would like to pay that tag number, but because Joe

Tuni, you know, he's 10th and average annual value at $16 million. And you know what he brings to the table. This would be a lot more. But just in terms of football, you've got to keep him. There's so much caps to be out there. If Trace Smith gets to the open market, he's going to make $25 million a year in the first couple of years of that. deal all these salaries justify them keeping him at that number because of their own situation unfortunately now that i'm thinking about last year and how they tagged and traded sneed i'm i'm moving this up to leaning yes that they it just even even though the reporting is so strong that he that they're going to like not pay him that they're going to let him go so many times i've seen over

the years what the totally uneducated person from the outside thinks is most logical to happen is actually what happens and not what is reported to happen. And to me, it's just not logical that good players just don't get let go. You can't let him go. So I think I'm moving him up to leaning yes. And it could be a tag and trade too, or at least they get something for him. Brett Veach is saying that. Carlton Davis, look, there's not many cornerbacks that would be available. He would be one of the best. I think he's really important to what the lions do. It would be a huge number. I'm leaning more no on this, but I put him in the maybe category. He's coming off a broken jaw, which sounds like the most unpleasant injury you could possibly have. But as a football

personnel guy probably thinks about it, like his jaw is just going to heal. And that's not a problem moving forward. The number at cornerback is $20 million. For a guy who's getting close to $30, that's actually perfect. Give me a one year $20 million dollar Carlton Davis contract. They have plenty of cap space. I actually think that makes a lot of sense. So I'm going maybe on Carlton Davis. Yeah, I would lean on this as well. I mean, it's kind of near the Ramsey's at the top at 24.1 million in average annual value, but like, it's worth it. It's a one-year thing. It's a position that you need. It's an area that you spend a lot to address in the offseason. And then you saw, you know, as the injuries piled up on defense,

that eventually you couldn't get a stop in the playoffs and that contributed to your downfall and you were missing him. So I'd bring him back. It's a one-year thing. It's not like you're paying multiple years. Why not do it? I think they're in championship mode. And this is actually kind of a championship mode move is you tag one of your veterans that you're happy to keep for one more year. The rest of the guys, and look, that's a short list. Usually, like I said, there's five or six locks. You know, there's anywhere between four and five at the very low end and nine, 10, 11, 12 at the top end. You know, we just went through six guys and I think only three or four of them are going to be tagged. And those to me are the most likely. It's going to be a small

group this year. My probably not list, Josh Sweat. I just don't think they're going to pay that much on a one-year deal for Josh Sweat as great as he's been. Paul Senadivo coming off a terrible injury for the Saints, but I just decided to throw him in there. Asante Samuel, it's a new coaching staff, and he's coming off an injury. Justin Reed is really important for the chief, so that wouldn't totally shock me. I thought I'd write it down. And then Milton Williams, who, that was the one in the probably not. I was like, if they could, they could free up enough money and you get bond on a deal, like,

it's not, it wouldn't be shocking to me for them to pay Milton Williams, but that's a lot for a guy That's been like your fifth or six defensive linemen to pay him $20 million a year, whatever it would be for defensive tackle. $25 million actually would be. That's a tough call. I mean, that would have to be a deal that you backload in order to make it all fit right now. I feel like he's a guy who's going to make money elsewhere, ultimately. But because they have the depth there and everything else.

And sweat felt like it was, we were kind of headed toward this way a couple of years ago. And they've drafted and developed accordingly to be prepared for this situation. They made him take a pay cut and a restructure, by the way. So I don't think. I don't think he was thrilled about that and he almost was Super Bowl MVP he actually was quoted I think it was to Albert Breyer saying like maybe I should

have been Super Bowl MVP so that's a guy that knows and teams like this they tend to get pillaged I mean I think about the Giants back when they beat the Patriots a ton of guys cashed in off of that victory did they play that well elsewhere no but this is tends to what happened people come in they grab guys they overpay them and they all cash in

Sweat's a good player maybe not a great player but a very good player He'll get paid like one. A very good season, but he's 30, not the type of guy. I think the Eagles are going to pay. So those are the probably not. Just a few other names that I just thought were interesting. If you were curious, you're out there, you were for the team with these guys on them.

Oh, wouldn't they tag them? I don't even think these guys are close, but Ernest Jones with the Seahawks, he did make a big impact. Javon Holland, I just think, but he would make sense in another scenario, but the dolphins and him didn't seem to have a great relationship. So that's a hard no for me. Osa Odigizua and DeMarcus Lawrence for the Cowboys. They're a little strapped. They're not going to tag those guys.

Julian Blackman for the Chiefs. Keenan Allen, Levi Unwazurike, DJ Reed, the cornerback for the Jets, and Alaric Jackson for the Rams. Those are all hard nose in my mind. It is a hard yes to this Kobe Turner interview that's coming up after the break. But I'm not saying goodbye to Nick. We'll say a little goodbye for the show, Nick. After we take a quick break, we come back. You're going to listen to an interview.

Jordan Rodrigue of the Athletic, and I did with Kobe Turner. This guy's a star just in terms of his personality, his intelligence, and his play on the field. And I just thought it was a cool interview that I kind of wanted, didn't want to get lost. I hope you guys enjoy it. Nick and I will be back on the other side of this conversation. Hey, this is Matt Jones. Now, I'm Drew Franklin. And this is an athlete.

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Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner. of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights

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I'm Marcus Grant And I'm Michael Florio And together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast Your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents

Listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Back on NFL Daily and thrilled to be joined by a man that I now consider a close friend because I've seen him twice in one week. Right? In three days.

Yes. Aren't you sick of us? No, not at all. You guys are incredible. Kobe Turner. Of course, the defensive linemen for the Los Angeles Rams. And yes, we spent some time together as part of the Mina Kimes benefit on, that was Monday night of Super Bowl week in Los Angeles.

And I got to say, Kobe, you sang that night, and you gave me chills. I'm not just saying that because I didn't talk to you afterwards, really. He was starstruck, that's why. No, no, no, we went on stage. He was out, like we were ships crossed. the night. You were very nice when we were watching the show earlier. But man, watching people's faces and reaction to you that night singing. I'm not kidding. I'm not just blowing smoke. I got chills there and props because that's that's what music is all about. How does that feel to make other people

feel that way? Man, it was cool. It was definitely different. You know, go on Acapella and, you know, I, of course, put that song out already on Spotify and then I'll have another song that should be coming out next Friday probably. Do we get a little, like, name? Praying. So it'll be a cover of Praying by Keshe. Oh my God. That's one of my favorite songs.

Yeah. So if you guys saw House of the Rising Sun was good, like this one is the one. Like I'm super excited to be able to share this one with you guys. Yeah. Because Kobe, like everybody saw you on Mask Singer. Everybody knows what you're capable of. But also that's TV to have you there in person. You didn't even have to stand up.

You hit the high notes. So I have to tell you. So I saw Greg. Greg was watching on the monitor backstage. because we were getting ready to come back out. We didn't want to be, like, looking in to be like, oh, hi, you know, and distracting whatever. And watching Greg, watch you, and I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm going to blow you up here a little bit.

But Greg turns to me and he goes, he is a star. And I was like, I know. I know. And it just, it was really cool. And I was like, I cover you, you know, when I cover the Rams or the athletic. And like, it's just something. I'm not saying you get used to it because you don't. But you're just like this all the time.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really cool to be able to share that side. And yeah. And then from the mass singer, you know, you're in this big costume. Like there's, they don't change your voice too much, but obviously you're singing through a costume. So there's different things that they have to do to, you know, to make it sound coherent and to where you're not just hearing the inside of the costume. But it is different being able to do something live. And then also to be able to share all of my stuff out on like all of the streaming platforms. Because it's like, you know, I know that this is more of a passion project, but this is something that I love to do and that I believe I'm really good at and that could have its own direction. But, you know, I'm a football guy and that's what I love to do. But it's cool to do that on the side for sure. It's just so cool. I just, you know, for listeners, I mean, I know you listen to me like wax poetic about all these like superstars that I get to cover in LA. But like Kobe's a team captain for a reason.

You know, you bring people with you and you're authentic and fully yourself. And I love what Mina was talking to you about on Monday because that can be hard to do. Yeah. And this league that wants to, A, take from you, B, beat you down physically. See, it's very mentally taxing as well. Yeah. But you sort of float, if that makes sense. And I guess I wonder, like, where does that come from?

What's your support system? And how do you stay so, I mean, again, you just kind of float through it all, like very gracefully, if you don't mind me saying. Yeah, I'm so grounded in that comes back to my fiance. say, you know, we're about to get married in a month. She rocks, by the way. I finally got to meet her and I was like, you rock so much, by the way. She gets a lot of pop. You're definitely going to be a wife guy. Yeah, I love it. I'm a huge, like, to be able to be a husband or to be able to be her man is something

that I take a lot of pride in being. So she just completely grounds me. I mean, she's there through everything, everything behind the scenes, massing, or everything like she's here today. She's just, she's my person who grounds me. And I'm so lucky to be able to have been able to have been able to have been able to. to find her. And yeah, so the way that I am able to continue to be myself is to have people like her who are in my corner and who are cheering me on and being like, yeah, like post that

wicked TikTok video or like go live and like go because I'm already singing like when I'm in the house, I'm going to be playing my guitar or playing my piano, but she's like, share that with the world. And that's been one of my biggest goals is to just be able to share all that I am with the world and not to just present here's the football side but to be like I would not be the football side that I have if it wasn't for the music side if it wasn't for the man side if it wasn't for the fiance side so to be able to share the totality of all of who I am and to have a support system starting off with her is the reason why I am able to float through now Jordan's giving you in the listener some of the character reasons like the man behind

the jersey of why you're you're a leader on that team but the production matters a lot It does. Speaking of football. It does, right. Let's get to it. If you couldn't get on that field, if you weren't making those sacks, getting those pressures, yeah, that's a big part of it. I wonder, is there a particular way that you like to win the best?

Is there a way you win that is your favorite? So I take a lot of pride in whenever we're in our overload fronts, and I'm the penetrator who just has to crease through the A because, well, one, that's, and I know we might talk cadence and stuff, but I'm able to see. different keys from the center to be able to let me know when to get off so that I'm the person who gets off the fastest. And at times, I get off faster than the old lineman who know the snap count. But it's something fun about being able to club the center. And when you, like, when you catch his arm perfectly and boom, you hit it by. And it's like the center misses. But that's only

half of the battle. And then now you have to rip through and you have to get to the back shoulder of the guard and you trap them with their elbow or you're either, you know, pushing through the back shoulder or I catch a club on the center's elbow and then I catch the guards elbow and throw him by. And then now all I have to do is run straight and the quarterback's right there. I'm watching. If you're watching on YouTube, Kobe is showing how he's doing the club and I'm just, I'm just carrying everything. You just grab. You know what? I'm going to not comment. It's not going to comment. I'm not going to comment. There's a little size difference happening, you know, no problem. Yeah. But no, that's that's one of my favorite ways. Like whenever I get lined up and I'm like,

I'm just creasing this gap from the, from the nose technique. Like I have, there's a certain mentality. That's when I'm at my best. And, you know, I think it was really cool, too, as the season progressed, to continue to find ways to put me in that position in a lot of our overload packages. But you see it, you hear the communication. You're like, okay, like we walked up, say we walked up Hoyt on the backside. He's a bigger body.

So that's going to elicit a 5-0. So it's really me in the center. If it's just me in the center, I'm beating the center. And then I'll be able to beat off, I'll be able to beat the, backside guard and come through, you know, clean through the A gap, but then there's sometimes where they bring a four for three slides to the center sliding a little bit harder, but all of those things I like to pick up on it and then I know, okay, this is my opportunity. And so I like creasing, long-winded version of saying, I like to increase with a egg gap.

We love that. We love that time a year to do it to nerd out. I love how casual, by the way. He also says like, oh, well, first I just beat the center. Well, yeah. And did you see the side eye? He gave a little side eye too. Like, you know, you know, I'm meeting this. Well, but that is correct because we see you do it. Snap in and snap out. Okay. Here's my pitch to you.

Okay. So you write a book at some point because I believe you can do it. You can do everything. And from a D-Tackles perspective, secrets of an NFL center. Yeah. Because you are studying these guys. Yeah. And that's something that Aaron Donald did too.

And I know you know that because we've talked about it. And like we to get into their brains the way that you do. First of all, take us through your process because to win like you do, you do have to know tendencies, cadences. You have to look for little weaknesses. One time Aaron showed me this and it was a frightening experience for me because I was like, oh my God. And because when he grabs you, you're just like, ah, oh my God.

He was telling me about how he would just sometimes walk down the hallways and just grab a lineman by like, oh, is that a weak spot? Does that hurt? Is that a pressure point? And he would look for different like soft spots for these linemen. Yeah. But I know you're studying all of that too. So where do you start? And how do you study? Like, what is your process of studying? And what have you learned? Yeah. Okay. So this is going to be multifaceted. So Facet one. When we talk about weak spots on somebody's arm or on somebody's body, that's a lot that I've actually learned from 80's Knife Guy. We talked about it on the Minacons podcast. So I called 80's Knife Guy. So I hit them up right after NFL honors. So that's a lot of what he's.

he does. It's how to break down different joints. What are the weak spots? Where can you attack? And what's going to be weak on an offensive lineman? Or, okay, hey, if I, say I swipe out on offensive lineman, then how is he going to replace his hand? Is he going to replace his hand back out and up under? And if he does in that time where I'm swiping out and he's replacing his hand, he doesn't have a hand on me. So if I grab cloth and I'm able to throw him by, now I'm able to get back to the quarterback. And so there's a lot of things that you break down in that sense. And that's a lot of what Poodie has helped me to do.

And then when we just- 80's knife guy for those uninitiated. And then when we just talk about like my film study, there's a million and one things that I look through. People are probably, if people sit in a film room with me, they're probably going to be bored because they might not be seeing what I'm seeing, but I'm replaying the start of each play,

the end of each play to see just exactly everything that I can take from it. You know, a lot of times I'm looking first at, what are their tendencies, do they do in pass? How do they like to punch all of these things? But then when you really get to the nitty gritty, right? So I'll take you through a home game. We're playing a home game at so far. A, lot of teams are going to be on a silent cadence. So that means the center has to either, A, get tapped by the guard to let him know, snap the ball, or B has to look through his legs, get a visual cue and then decide to go. Or C, he'll, and he'll call out the cadence on himself.

He'll just ducked his head for the listeners. Yeah. Right. So he'll call out the cadence himself. there's when you play so much and when you really study the game you get to feel somebody's aura and it's not something that comes through so much on tape but once you're in person you feel the aura you feel okay this person is ready to go or this person's not ready and so there's sometimes right where I'll watch the very beginning of the play where it'll just barely be cut off and it's like a fake cadence where the center's looking through his lead but he's not ready and so I'm looking at his knees at how tense his quad muscles are I'm looking all the weight, like I'm keying the knee. Some guys, too, like, there's a couple of centers who

maybe their hand is in the middle when they're faking. And then by the time when they're, when they're trying to get out, they throw their hand back as they're looking down under to kick back. And so we're not going to say the name. You told me what, and I'll know, I'll take it to the grave. I won't say it. I'll take it to the grave. Yeah, well, I'll take it to the grave. I promise. But it's so interesting to be able to see these certain things. And you see it when they're stressed, right? A lot of times people can control their movements when there's not somebody who's about to get off the bar, when they're not worried about who they're growing up against. But every time I look at some, okay, when they think this guy is about to shoot and jump

the gap, what are they doing within their body to give them an extra step? Everybody in the NFL cheats, you know, Coach Giff tells me all the time, if you're not cheating, you're not trying. And so it's a matter of catching the cheaters and catching what they do so that you can cheat off of them. And, you know, if you listen to a quarterback snap, snap cadence or whatnot, like, you're laid off the ball every time because all of the alignment are jumping out right before he says the cadence. So to be able to key in on the particular pieces, whether it be an arm, whether it be a leg, whether it be the fact that some centers, when, you know, they're looking down when they're about to, when they're actually about to snap it, they look down harder

so that they can reset themselves back and back up to be able to get off the ball. So there's So many, like you said, you could write a book on all of these pieces. You will be writing a book. Yeah. I'll only take, I'll only take 10%. It's fine. No, but Kobe, it's cool because like what I don't think a lot of people on the outside when they're watching TV or whatever and they see like their favorite team and like a D-Lineman false starts jumps off sides, something like that. And it's like, oh, he made a mistake. If they're very, if they're a good player such as yourself, actually that's not what's happening. You saw something that you know is to be true. and you reacted to the thing that you'd studied. And I think that is a misconception.

It's like, I've heard you take the blame for things sometimes and all this stuff. And I know you're a captain. You're supposed to. I get that. But like, you're not messing up. Like you saw that Seattle Center do something. Yeah. It's whether it be that, whether it be too, there's some guys that'll move in the

refs don't see it because they're farther out. But being in tune, like there's so many times on film where I'm pointing at somebody and they snap the ball and it's not a fall star or. say we take the Vikings game, you know, Jere, or Akello makes the big play, gets a strip sack, verse takes it all the way. So I'm, I would have been all sides if I was crowding the ball

because I'm seeing the shot clock go down and I'm like, they have to snap the ball. I've heard Von Miller talk about this. They have to snap the ball. The ball's at zero, zero. And it was at zero zero for a second. And normally the refs, they'll let it get to zero,

and they'll give them a chance to snap it. But if they're not snapping it, then they're not doing anything. So I literally stand up. and I'm pointing out the shot clock and they and they snap the ball and actually I was talking to verse about it if you watch that play verse doesn't get off the ball he's like I saw Kobe stand up and start pointing if he's pointing then somebody did something wrong like it's it's off sides or false start sorry and so I'm pointing and then they snap the ball and nobody's ready to go because everybody thinks that it's a delay of game and you know Akello ends up going there verse ends up hanging out at the line and then boom there goes the ball and he you know hits his max speed or whatnot and He takes it to the crib, but it's crazy. It's going in the book. Man, Vikings fans are going to have nightmares about it.

Y'all, you ruin their season. Oh, my God, y'all teed off. A couple different times. I'm wondering, it's interesting hearing you talk because it's the thing I love about football. There are so many levels to it. You can enjoy it on the base level, and you can listen to all the things that go into the interior line play. Yeah. I've covered the league for 20 years, and I have no idea.

You know, I'm learning. My point is I'm like, I'm learning this stuff. I don't know about that stuff, of course. And it's great to learn about it. And as you're talking, I am wondering like, okay, what does Kobe Turner make him like Kobe Turner? And I'm thinking part of the equation might be that feeling of the aura. A thousand percent. It's that.

I'm very cerebral with the game. So you got these guys that are just super great athletes, freak athletes, six, seven, long arms, you know, run a four for whatever and those guys you know those are the guys that get the power five offers out of high school those are the guys that get into the league first like a run in this game right and he's also a guy too who he's combined that with you know work ethic to be able to get to where he's at and to be able to impact the game at that level but yeah and so for me coming from a guy who was a walk on who is short who has short arms all of these things and i and i think it's a similar path to what AD has taken and even a similar path that I think of guys on our team like Braden Fis,

Byron Young, people who weren't looked at, even Jared Verst, who weren't looked at as these star-studded athletes or anything like that and who have had to work their way up, you have to find everything that you can do to make yourself great. And for me, you know, I think that I put myself up there because of the way that I approach the game and the way that I'm prepared, right? You have so many people who go and watch the combine and they look at the 40s and they're like, okay, whatever their 10 split is, that's going to affect their get-off, right? Whoever has the fastest 10-split is going to have the fastest get-off.

Well, I didn't run the combine or I didn't run the 40, and the reason why I didn't run the 40 is because it might have been in the 5-2 range or the 5-3 range. And somebody from-faster than normal humans, I'm saying. And somebody told me, don't do that. I don't have the fastest 10-time, but then if you just look at the get-off, you know, in those past rushing situations, who's getting off the ball faster? and I can guarantee you that the reason why I can even put myself up there with getting off the ball fast and to even be, you know, beating most people off the ball, if not all people at the ball,

is because of the things that I key on mentally that give me an extra advantage. So it's so interesting. Like you said, there are so many different levels to the game of football. I don't even think I have a master's degree in football. I have a PhD in football. Like I study this game and that's what puts me in the positions that I'm in. Can you imagine us talking to you three years from now and what you'll know? I mean, you already know so much.

How about like eight? So here's a thing that's cool. So I was in the draft house when they selected you. And I watched Henny like FaceTime and he was so excited and like I know that's your guy. And like he was he was keyed on you for so long. And a lot of their scouts were keyed on you for a really long time. And I just remember them walking through and like and Ra saying we just got bleeping Grady Jarrett. Yeah.

Like that they, they already. saw the 10-year plan for you because of how impressed they were, not just with how you showed up on tape. Because they don't really, and you know this about their aims. Obviously, you play there, but like, they don't really look at a lot of the testing in terms of what they hold the most weight on. They watch tape and they go meet you and like they talk to you and all of these things. And they were so excited and so fired up to just, they already had this vision for who you could be long term. And I think even to be a captain as, as young as you are, it's not just really because, I mean, it's, it's a young team, but there's some old guys on there too.

Yeah. But you're the, oh, here's Pooka. Wait, you're not going, oh, he got to say hi to. Yeah. We're fair. Well, yeah. Fiance comes first. Yes, of course. Are you going to come. Come on, boys. Come on, boy. Come on. Okay, Pepsi. Hey y'all. So also he knew you were. I mean, I know you, he didn't tell anybody I know, but he recognized your voice. Yes, he does.

Went on Masked singer. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, because I know you didn't tell a soul, right? I didn't tell a soul, right? I didn't tell a soul. But I feel like he recognized your voice when he was watching the show. Yeah, I didn't tell a soul, but he's family. So I didn't tell a soul.

Yeah. But no, all the, all the, all the homies, all of the, all of the family. all of the family knows it right away and he's family that's a good point if he has a PhD now I don't know what happened what's after PhD I'm not sorry

I don't know but I'm looking forward to finding it congrats in advance on your future job as commissioner of the NFL I'm looking forward to that too although I'm stuck in my head because I have just this image of it after you said it Aaron Donald going through the hallway

and just randomly like grabbing people's shoulders to feel weakness points Oh, yeah. That's going to give me nightmares. Yeah. It happened to me. Oh, my God. What do you mean?

It would give anybody nightmares. I'm not going to say that's like psycho behavior, but I would be kind of like afraid of that happening. Listen, I learned. I would be afraid of that happening too. I don't want to know a girl man's hands. But he would do this. Like he would go through walkthrough and stuff. He would like traumatize these poor linemen.

Although, but like also Rob Havenstein was telling me it made them all better too. Because they were like, oh, am I showing that? You know, is that? is that obvious? And so I was asking him about it. That's when he demonstrated. And I was like, I did not sign up for this. I didn't think this was what I was, you know, signing up for when I was badass. So we're learning how you went off the snap, how you watch the centers. And we're even learning a little bit how the greatest of all time, one little piece of how he became the greatest of all time. He was Kobe Turner's mentor. And now Kobe Turner's has taken that mantle with the

Rams. Appreciate the time. This was awesome. It's been a great. week, you know, spending time. I know. We've gotten to see you guys. I know, multiple times. This went by very fast. So we'll have to run this back sometimes. We can talk. We're going to get you in studio. We've talked about this. We really want to get you in studio back in Los Angeles and all of that. It's going to be a lot of fun. Let's go. Appreciate you, Kobe. Thank you. Thanks, Kobe. All right. That was a lot of fun last week. I already both miss New Orleans and I'm very happy. My body is happy that I'm back home in rainy Southern California. And, uh, Nick, before we go, I want to bring Eric back into the show because I had a major mental

malfunction as we were wrapping up in that trailer. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. And it's time to make amends. So I go through and I thank everyone for the great week, really the great season we had. I'm staring straight at my notes because I did make sure. I just didn't want to forget. anyone in a big moment, but one name I did not write down, because I just assumed that's obvious. You don't need to write down this name is the man that keeps this show on the track. Our producer, Eric Roberts, no one puts more into this show. And look, you did a great job around the NFL, and this show has been even more on your plate,

and you just handled it and handle it all in like the coolest L.A., hey, it's no big deal, way possible. You got your bills, you got your Dodgers winning titles, you got your bills winning a lot of games. And I felt like such an idiot. Like five minutes after, I'm just apologizing to the guy, Eric Roberts, the guy should be thanking first. So, Eric, you're the man. I just need the listeners to know how much he's the man. Well, I appreciate it. The best part is when you did realize it, and I'm like standing in a parking lot trying to get files transferred.

and it's like holding a laptop trying to find Wi-Fi and you're like so apologetic I'm like it's okay it's okay it's not that big a deal I'm sitting there drinking an orange juice we're all like on the verge of just careening towards sickness eric's got his laptop holding it up it's dark we're outside a trailer we're in like the back corner of where all this setup is and Greg's like oh my god I can't believe I forgot him and as he was reading those things off I'm like thinking did he already say it and I just missed it no and we told him understood and Eric, as always, just like, dude, no worries. And he's more focused on uploading than anything, which is classic Eric. The same guy that I saw on the concourse at the Superdome

12 hours earlier who couldn't be happier and more excited to take on the day, finishing strong, and it just rolls right off his back. He knows, Greg. He doesn't need to hear the words of affirmation. And I think you had a great week. You're in that oxbox. He had those nice seats. It was like, it is very cool. You know, you, you, uh, You keep this show going, and look, we need to get you, we need to get you a full-time job. I'm just putting this out there publicly. I don't care. The NFL is not coming correct.

It's absolutely ridiculous. And I just appreciate you and everything you do. And Chris Bobona and Gavin Consell, who came in late in the season, Chris was about halfway through. Obviously, Randy Chavez contributed a ton to this show. And we thanked him when he left. But Chris and Gavin were back in L.A. helping with the edits and working really hard and obviously filling in for Eric, too, when necessary. So they were awesome all year long. But yeah, we're not done. Like I said, we got a show on Friday. I actually saw a note on

threads by Tom Brady. We can put that up if you're watching on YouTube. And he just, he sends it out, how long until football season? And I just wanted to say officially, Nick, football is not back. It's too early. You can't ask that. You're right. We have officially hit the, is it true? The off season? Is that a thing? It's actually Greg's season. We're going with this free agency period. But no, football, sorry Tom. That was too premature. I don't know how much you're getting paid to like still post on threads. I only saw that because, you know, on Instagram they put the little messages in between. And I was like, how I was thinking how much percentage of threads traffic is just from people clicking on that. Because that's 100% of my

thread's involvement over the last few years. I'm like, well, maybe that'd be good for the show. Let's click on Tom Brady there. It's my traffic as well. And you know what? I'll say this. We've all earned a bit of a break, but NFL Daily does not stop. And football may not be back, but it's right around the corner. So don't you worry. We'll be here the whole time. It is. We have a lot of great shows playing. I was really excited because the daily format, offers us a chance to kind of attack it in a different way. I used to do it with writing with all these different articles. Who's going to get cut?

Like today, the tag primer. We're going to talk about some trades coming up. We're going to do some off-season previews. Really excited for all that. That's coming up in the next couple of weeks as we head to the combine, too. That's only a week and a half away. I can't freaking believe it. Yes, for Eric killing it all year long and Chris and Gavin and Nick.

You don't even seem like you're playing hurt um yeah when erin rogers has burned bridges with a new team it's sicko season it's gregg's season it's greg's season hey everybody daniel jeremiah here and i'm bucky brooks on move the six we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies coaching trends and how front offices construct winning rosters we study the tape talk to decision makers and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it.

Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football. podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your

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