NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Free Agent TE Rankings, Kubiak Arrives, and Isaiah Likely Joins the Show!

Episode Date: February 12, 2026

Gregg Rosenthal and Ollie Connolly react to news from around the league including Klint Kubiak being introduced as the new head coach of the Raiders (01:50) and Mike Vrable talking about Will Campbell's future at the tackle position (09:15). Gregg and Ollie then look at this year's free agent market for the tight end position and talk Kyle Pitts (18:06), Cade Otten (25:00), Isaiah Likely (27:25), Dallas Goedert (32:25) and more! The show is wrapped up with Gregg and Nick Shook talking with Ravens TE Isaiah Likely about the Ravens' season and what's next for Likely (38:52). Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. It's a tough sport. It's not for everybody. You've got to be a little sick to love this game. And we've got some sickos. Welcome to NFL Daily, where football's not back, but Ali Connolly's back in the minds watching the NFL draft prospects.

I mean, talk about offseason. I'm Greg Rosenthal. I'm here in the garage, and Ali Connolly is with me. And I feel like this is the first proper. off-season show. I didn't want to turn the page too fast from the Super Bowl. So, you know, I talked with Daniel Jeremiah a little bit about the Patriots and Seahawks. What's next? Talked with Mina Kimes about enjoying this C-A-Ox victory, but this is the first proper off-season show. Ali, I know you're grinding on the rookie prospects, but are you ready to talk some tight-end free agency

prospects? And nothing has fired up more than me able to sit with you right into the off-season and discuss tight ends. Yeah, it was an eye-opening moment this morning. I got the email that gave me all my due date assignments on my top 101 free agents list, the blurbs and the list. It's all next week. And I'm thinking, oh, boy, you want to get ahead of it. And you never quite do.

So that's how I'll be spending my weekend. I was wondering what I've done with my life when I spent the Tuesday night after the Super Bowl watching an hour of Kyle Pitts. And I was like, this is too much. What is this going to be? 20 seconds on the podcast. We're going to do some news. I'm going to have Ollie, who's a great scout, help me sort some of my tight end rankings.

And then we're going to listen to an interview that we did last week with Isaiah likely, one of the gentlemen we will be talking about and who will be featured prominently on the tight end rankings. And we'll be somewhere in my top 50, let's say, free agents. But let's figure out where that will be in the top 50. Let's start, though, with some news. We got our final head coach introductory press conference. It was with a man, Clint Kubiak, who we spoke with on the field after the game.

Let's listen to him talk about his relationship with the guy who presumably was the most important guy in hiring him. Tom Brady, a man who did not show up for the press conference, I want to point out. Yeah, I'm really excited to work with Tom. and, you know, he made a mistake and give me his cell phone number, so he's going to, he might wish he never did that because I'm going to be calling him a lot.

What I'm excited about is that we're really have different, we have, you know, different offensive backgrounds, how we're going to, you know, how we can pull ideas from each other, but obviously he's the greatest that's ever done it. And the interview process, just the passion that he spoke with

on all things football just got me excited about the opportunity to work with him. Yeah, Clint Kubiak never sounds that excited. But he says he's excited. I'll believe him there. It always hits me funny that he, like, feels like he's so lucky that he got Tom Brady's cell phone. You know, he should be involved on a day-to-day basis.

I don't know if you have any Clint Kubiak introductory press conference thoughts. You're a nerd when it comes to these press conference. Not a guy who, like, gives a lot. I wouldn't say he did that after the game on the field with us either. either, but I don't know if anything else stood out to you. No, I think he's more a tactician in the minds, in the dark halls, trying to scheme stuff up. I'm not sure he's going to get you lifted off your seat pumped up for the new season. I do find the Brady stuff interesting.

You're with me on Tom Brady Island that he's become a very good broadcaster, as I'd say, I think pushing himself up into a different tier. I would like him to pick up and choose and be great at one or the other. I would like it to be as an owner, frankly, more so than a broadcaster. and I do find that a little bit puzzling that he's making these kinds of big franchise tilting decisions and then doesn't show up to announce the new coach.

Yeah, and that it's his third or his fourth job and he has all these different investments and you just would think that's a full-time job. Look, they had eight to ten, like former Raiders' greats up there on the podium with Clint Kubiak, all smiling Charles Woodson and Rich Gannon, I believe, was the only quarterback there, but there's no Tom Brady.

Kubiak is tough. When I told a couple people that I've never seen anyone less excited right after winning the Super Bowl than Clint Kubiak. He came over and there's this feeling that I think he talked about it. Like he had a lot to do. He had a lot of interview. Like he literally, I think, was already thinking about the next step, although he said with us on the mic that, hey, tonight, I'm a Seahawk. And I hope he could enjoy it. And maybe that's just how he is was very flatlined.

But like I said, I've seen it. I've seen a lot of coaches, players, everyone after winning a Super Bowl. And he was really kind of down the line. And I hope he provides that schematic advantage. And he'll be helped if he has a great roster. The question is, will he have Max Crosby on the roster? He spoke on Tuesday just a couple days after Jay Glazer, who's tight with Max Crosby, said that Crosby was done, he believed, with the Raiders. Here's Clint Kubiak talking about it to the media.

I got to drink a cup of coffee with Max this morning. Love talking ball with him and, you know, look forward to continuing those conversations. He was the first one in here this morning working out, so I fired me up. We want him to be a part of our success going forward. You know, there's no doubt about that. And, you know, he's one of the best players in the NFL. So that's a no-brainer to get to work with Max and see him continue to have success with this organization. He looks a lot like Gary Kubiak.

The offense is similar, but Kubiak gave you a little more. Gary Kuback was a guy who would fire you up a little bit. Maybe Max Krosby, though, being in the building on the first day, Clint Kubiak is there. I guess you got to work out somewhere, though, and that's where he's going to work out. Says more about him potentially being done as a raider. That's a story we didn't hit at all last week, so I did want to circle back that multiple people, but most importantly, Glazer kind of said that Crosby will be going the Miles Garrett route

and at least pushing for a trade. We'll see if he goes for the Miles Garrett route and ends up backing off over time. If you were the Raiders, what is the price tag that you would be willing to accept to trade Max Crosby? Is a single first round pick enough? I was going to say first plus to start,

but I was thinking if I even needed two. I don't think you're going to get two first for Crosby. Glazer said something that he thought he would get a bigger haul than Michael Parsons. And I thought, well, why? There's no chance. Why would that mean? No. The age plus injury concerns is just not going to happen.

I think for the books and Patriots, there's a really clear opening that a first round picks make sense for all parts involved. For the raider side, it's one of those difficult deals where it's hard to find a value that works for everyone, whereas part of doing the deal for Crosby will be to alleviate some of the cap burden and get 30 million plus in cap space, they've already got Ouddles of Cap Room. The free agent class that you're, you know, spending your weekend writing about isn't exactly one way you'd want to go and spend 10 million on three players to rebuild the defense and then look around and go, well, we're significantly worse still because we don't have Max Crosby.

So I think it's difficult to find a price tag that would work for both sides on this one. Yeah, he has $30 million guaranteed this year. He keeps getting those short-term additions to his contract with more guaranteed money. And yet they did structure it, SpyTech with the last contract in a way that, yeah, they save a ton of money against the cap in real money if they did trade him. I guess I don't see, I agree with you. I don't see the point for them because I think ultimately they won't get enough of an offer. But if you told me they could get a first, second, and a third for Max Crosby, I'd probably do it. I'd probably do it.

It would be very hard for Raiders fans, I think, to stomach it. If it's like a first and a fourth, I don't even think that's totally worth it. So what it will probably end up with is a similar situation to Miles Garrett where he'll get another one of those raises. He'll get more guaranteed money, and he'll kind of do it that way. So, yeah, I'm a little skeptical about Clint Kubiak. I wouldn't say he's provided, like, an incredible schematic advantage at each stop as an offensive coordinator. I think he's been a good head coach, but maybe not a completely transformative one.

And then that plus him in front of the podium, plus just the situation in Vegas. Am I a little okay to be, like, concerned? I would be hesitant when you look at the entire resume would worry me. I think this year, and he did kind of crest a wave this year to ride into a top job where he was one of like the go-to guys for everyone looking for jobs. I do think he changed his offensive approach dramatically this season where it became more about the players and not the plays. And I do like coaches who are adaptable in that sense when you go from play call to head coach.

And the thing that McVeigh has done in the guys off those trees where the guys who've succeeded versus the guys who haven't had as much success is a willingness to overhaul things everything. season. And it's not just the one approach banging your head against the wall, trying to find the perfect place for it every time. So we'll find out who his staff is and we'll talk about that in the coming weeks as we find out.

Mike Brable and Drake May, they got in front of a podium on Tuesday. Good on the Patriots to get them on the podium on clean out day and everything. Mike Vrable quickly squashed what Daniel Jeremiah talked about on our

40s and Free Agents episode this week about Will Campbell potentially moving positions. Let's listen to Ravel, shut that down. When you sign up to play left tackle, you sign up to play corner, you sign up to play quarterback, you sign up to be the head coach. You get judged, you get scrutinized. Will's 22 years old. He's our left tackle. He'll get

better. He'll get stronger. Moments where he played well, moments where he blocked the guy. There's plays he'd like to have back. We're not moving Will to guard or to center or to tight end or anywhere else. So I don't have to tell you. Not as declarative when you listen to it and like authoritative as I read it in terms of

the quotes. He was talking to you, Ollie. You were the one who wanted Will Campbell to play center before he entered the draft. He's not moving him. What do you think? I understand his rationale. What he said there was really important where he said he'll get stronger. That is the foundational concern.

Will Campbell. The anchor is not at the standard to play on the edge in the NFL. And when you have a weak anchor and people have run through you, which they do consistently with him and not just run through him, they knock him back into the feet of Drake May consistently. It's like the first key play of the Super Bowl was someone just getting dropped onto Drake May's feet running straight through Will Campbell's chest. It is so hard for an offense to work around that. That's not something you can give chip help to when you're getting beat off the snap with a speed rush. It's a one-on-one situation. And if someone just runs through your chest and drops you onto the quarterback's feet on first contact.

It's not really much you can do. And even if you move that to guard, that's still a concern. All those big, powerful rushes in there, you played guard in the Super Bowl where people want him to move. It's Byron Murphy and Leonard Williams. I'm not sure you want that match up. This is Nowosu or Derek Hall, the guys on the edge. So they have a serious problem with him and the anchor.

And so he's got to get stronger. They've got to refine the technique. His technique right now is not good enough. He plays into his fundamental weaknesses. And so that's the technical stuff. they can figure out and kind of clean up, I think, going into the second season. Maybe the injury was a factor. Maybe it was just that he faced a very easy schedule of pass rushers when he was healthy,

so that made him look better than he really was. Did he look better than he really was? I don't think he did. He plays vertically all the time, deep sets, vertical sets, and so he gives people a runway, which is where some of the arm length stuff comes in, and you're inviting a power rush someone to run through your face. he's got to be a guy

who gets them into people's grill off the snap he's so explosive off the ball he sets the terms of engagement he controls people he's really intelligent he gets the right angles and figures it out like I said he's playing into his own weaknesses now that's on the staff as much as on Campbell to try and figure this stuff out

but I don't think it's as simple as if you just move him inside one spot he's not going to have a fundamental weakness well he played better in the sense that there were less moments of him running after the guy that just passed him and who had just sack fumbled Drake May because the competition wasn't as good and May was doing better in the pocket

avoiding it. Yeah, a tough way to end the season for Will Campbell and for Drake May, but he's not moving anywhere. And he also did speak to the media and said he was afraid to say some things he would regret if he had said anything to the media with tears in his eyes after the Super Bowl. But he will remain their left tackle. We'll see. I think the criticism of the Patriots, coaches.

staff being like, oh, how do you leave Will Campbell on an island so much? It's like, yeah, he's the number four overall pick left tackle. They're going to be on an island sometimes. As you mentioned, the matchups were tougher on the inside anyways. Those are the guys you traditionally double team more, and that's what they do. Quickly, let's fly through a couple other things. Brian Callahan is back in the NFL. He did not get a coordinator job. It looks like he's going to be the QB coach of the Giants. So an interesting dynamic, Matt Nagy as the coordinator, maybe the backup plan Brian Callahan as the QB coach. Darrell Beville, our old friend from Seattle,

is now one of those assistant to the head coach with the Panthers. Rob Havenstein, the longtime right tackle for the Rams, retired. I just wanted to put those all on the record on this show. One thing Schefter reported on Tuesday I found interesting is that there's a push for the NFL to start allowing teams to trade draft picks five years out instead of. three years out closer to what the NBA does. I love this. I'm curious what you think about this, who's someone who's so deep into the draft space. I love it. We're in the content game. It's a

transaction overaction world. That's where the NBA found itself as people talk about the trade deadline and don't watch the games. And so if you want to get A.J. Brown on the move or guys moving at the trade deadline, if there's more resources to go around and you're willing to throw in the 231 second round pick, then we're going to get more transactions. Right. And, and And I think this offseason is going to have a ton of trades. I know that's been my corner, the trade tsunami. It's been building every single year. I think we're getting to another level here because there's so many tradable contracts

and so few difference makers in free agency. And people are going to look at this draft is maybe not as spicy. And it's just an easy way with all this cap space to improve your team and get fits where it makes sense where a guy we'll talk about later like a Cole Komet. Maybe he doesn't totally make as much sense with the bears. He'll make sense somewhere else, but why just cut him? Let's get something for him. I think it's going to happen.

And the reason I love this potential change more than anything is it will expose bad GMs more than ever. And it will help good GMs more than ever with a long-term view. It's why I'm not sure the NFL will allow it. Because the NFL is always trying to prevent bad teams from just being dumb and getting worse and worse. I actually think this would be bad for parity. I think we'd have a situation where there'd be some teams like the Thunder and other really smarts teams just loading up on draft picks and playing the long game and getting better and just sticking at the top of the league. Do you think they would put a Steepium rule in where you couldn't do, maybe they make it six years instead of five, but you can't trade back to back so that the fontenance of the world can't go trading for first round picks? Yeah, like they'll call it like the Mickey Loomis trade.

I don't know. Like you have to, it's a sliding scale of your record and how deep into the future you can trade. Like, Mickey, no, you're only allowed to trade one year ahead, actually. We're not letting you sell the future of the Saints. Finally, before we take a break, and I wanted to leave a lot of time for our tight end talk here, just some news on James Pierce, which we did not update last week. A lot of you guys have probably heard of this, but I just wanted to make sure it was on the show that he will be facing five counts.

James Pierce, if you remember, was the player that the Falcons gave up. their first round pick in the 2026 draft to the Rams to get and in draft in the second round. He was a finalist for defensive player of the year at a lot of sack production and was arrested during Super Bowl week and is facing five counts, felony counts of an amissimeter after allegedly going after Rakea Jackson, this WNBA player in a domestic dispute. Police said that basically he fleed after. after what was a domestic dispute and was arrested after crashing his car.

His charges include two counts of aggravated battery with a deadly weapon and aggravated stalking. Jackson said in a statement, she had been trying to add a relationship with Pierce and filed paperwork saying she wants to testify against Pierce. Very serious charges, obviously something the NFL is going to have to handle. All the Atlanta Falcons are doing are saying that we will wait to see what authorities

say. It's a story. Obviously, we're going to hear more about. And it's, I think, safe to say that the Falcons will be moving forward in the short term. And we'll see about the long term, not assuming that James Pierce will be available for their 2026 team anytime soon. But we will have to see there. Let's take a break. I want to come back and talk about another Atlanta Falcon, Kyle Pitts.

And a lot of free agents that will be available at Tight and Ollie. I'm putting them on the spot here is actually going to help me sort these guys out for my final rankings, at least a contributing voice to the rankings back in a minute. This month, IHeart Radio is celebrating the stars of the 2026 Winter Games. Louisville, Kentucky is home to Oxana Masters, a living legend of adaptive sports. A multi-sport phenomenon with 19 Paralympic medals, she dominates the snow in both cross-country skiing and biathlon. Her relentless upper body strength and competitive fire make her nearly unbeatable on the tracks. Masters arrives in Milano Cortina not just to compete, but to continue

her reign as one of the most dominant athletes in history. For more Winter Games gold, search Olympics on the IHeart Radio app. I'm Dylan Playfair. And I'm Tyler Smith. We're putting loneliness in the penalty box by talking to some of our favorite athletes about the importance of friendship. This is Bromance. Bromance is brought to you by Charm Diamond Centers,

proudly Canadian-owned and operator. Charm has been part of your love stories and bromances for over 50 years. And you can find Bromance on the IHart Radio Network or wherever you get your podcast. Back on NFL Daily, Ali Connolly is going to help me set my tight end board. I'm not going to finalize it today, but you give me your feedback. I'm going to take it serious.

Because you're going through the tape, and I realized this last night as I spent like an hour on pits, what am I doing? I got to paste this thing out, but I could spend from the minute we get off this show until the minute these rankings are due, just doing it, just watching and trying to sort it, and it wouldn't be enough time.

Like you could just, you could do it forever. It's addicting, but it's also troubling because there's no right answer, Ali. How do I, how do I solve this? Do you rank to your idealized version of an offense, or do you just say this guy would globally be good everywhere in the NFL? Closer to the second version, but that gets into the question that I have for this first tier of tight ends, like a K-Daten versus a Kyle Pitts. Like globally, I think K-Dat-N,

or Isaiah likely for that matter, fits in more offenses. I think in the version I would want to run too, probably. It's just less of a gamble, less of a, okay, if I have Kyle Pitts, here's the way that I'm going to have to make his skill set really shine. I think there are less paths to do that, a narrower path. And so I find myself probably ranking him a little lower than maybe other places would. But I think that gets to the question you're asking in terms of how to rank these two guys.

Because I guess in a perfect world, if you got the perfect Kyle Pitts situation, although the Falcons this year were I think kind of close to that, then maybe like his production is going to be higher. And maybe the ceiling is a little higher. But you can kind of see where I'm talking myself out of Kyle Pitts. even before I start the argument. I agree with you. I'm very proud of you for having Kate often right up there with Kyle Pitts. That's excellent. I think Pitts, it's a lot of false production. It's a lot of manufacture production.

I think the value ad he brings as this idea even coming out of the draft where he's going to manipulate all the formations and be this mismatch piece. I just don't think that's truly the player that he is. I think he's largely just a receiver who is called a tight end and teams find ways to stifle that. I know he was tremendous down the back half. of last season, but teams have found a ways where they just say, we'll just put a cornerback on him and we're able to eliminate a lot of what he does well. I do think if you got him to somewhere like Sean Payton,

someone who really can find a way to isolate and use a tight end, he would be really, really successful and have some really high-end seasons. I just think someone like Kate Arton is more of an all-around winning player who actually helps you win games for, what, half, 75% of the asking price? Yes, and I'll be curious to see, Otten might get a franchise deck. Pits might get a franchise tag. We'll see. And yeah, if you're watching on YouTube, Chris Bobona lovingly put together all these all these splash plays that Pitts had. I'm going to make the case at least four pits of why he would even be

in this top tier. So for now my top tier is Pitts, uh, and unlikely. And I'm trying to figure out where to sort them and obviously where they'll fit versus different positions. If I was doing this ranging a year ago, I mean, Pitts would be buried. I just don't think he was a good player. I I don't think he's been healthy. He was moving better this season, I thought, to my eye. And especially when you do watch down the stretch. Like, he's not a great blocker as far as I can tell. But they did use him way more in line for what it's worth.

Like the percentage that he was in line this year, it was a lot less in the slot, a lot less out wide. And the idea that you could, like, build an offense around him, for as much grief as Zach Robinson took, I actually thought they used Kyle Pitts quite well with the motions, and he had some juice, and he was fluid, and he was their number one receiver. Some of these delayed routes, like, they got him schemed open pretty well. And I do think he was moving better this season than he had at any point since his rookie year.

And so it wasn't just, like, fake production. His contested catch rate was way better. But even way better was just, like, okay. Like, he's not amazing, and he's not amazing. and he's not amazing with the ball in his hand. So that, again, it's why I want to kind of grade him over his whole career, and he's probably going to be lower on my overall list. But the question is, do I put him over?

Ah, and then likely who I'm kind of leaning towards is my next tight ends of that group. It is a tricky one because I get what you're saying with Pitt. There is more upside. There's more of the splash play creativity, but just down to down. Kate often to me is a significantly more impactful player, both with the run blocking what he puts on the menu in the run, game, which then puts on the menu for you in play action. I guess the tricky thing is that's

stuff that becomes on the menu in play action is the stuff where someone like a cattle pits feast. So with often, you need a dovetail with him to kind of make that stuff sing, which I do kind of feel you need with Pitts too. You need someone who can help set it up. So they're two completely contrasting players. It's more of what you're looking for, I think, and it's more of the type you're looking for. I just think Pitts is what you're going to have to pay him is based way more on the reputation and people would default back to their pre-draft idea of him, look at the final 10 games in Atlanta, and pay for that version. And I'm just not sure that that version is going to be worth the price tag. Yeah. If you told me you're getting 2025 hits consistently for the next

couple of seasons, I would bump up what ends up being my final overall ranking for him. The problem is he has had these injuries. And I'm judging on the four-year career, not just what we saw last year. So ultimately, I'm not overly high on him. KDaten and Isaiah likely have something in common that even a football head like you, I don't think could come up with about how their seasons ended. I guess I'll ask. Can you, can you, I'm putting out on the spot, KDotten and likely how their seasons ended. Tough. How that seasons ended. I don't know. Tell me. They both had like the final, what should have been game winning catch. I think in Otten's, case he did set up the winner there for the Bucks in week 18.

And then likely, I kind of forgot, like had the last play of the John Harbaugh era skying over Jalen Ramsey and reminding you of why everyone's thought Isaiah likely should be a more productive player than he's really been throughout his career, went up for it. Ravens get a little conservative run the next play and then miss that field goal that would have sent them. So they both had what would have been a game-winning type of catch. For Aten, he was lined up. in line and then he just goes across the formation and crosses Merrick and in his wide open and

going back and watching him on tape like look he's not going to wow you as much as likely will in terms of his ball skills or in terms of his speed but would it be fair to call him i don't even know if he's a poor man's a j barner maybe a poor man's a g barner but just allowing you to kind to run the type of offense you want to run in 2025. I love me some AJ Barner. So I don't personally, if I was taking Barner or Otten, I think I would go Barner just because of his, his physicality. But Barner's kind of developed into a guy. You can basically play every snap and be a plus starter, even though I don't feel like Bucks fans like him a lot. I did, I did text your friend John Ledyard, who you do the Red Optional podcast with a couple weeks ago talking about Otton. And then he told

me how bucks fans aren't really that high in him, but he's a good player. Yeah, I think even AJ Barner would say, well, that's incredible. You compare me to Cade Otton in that camp. I think Otten is like a foundational piece where if you drew up now, what is the prototype of Tite End you want? You cannot, go in and just saying you want one of the special ones is like unrealistic, right? But of who is in that maybe second tier camp who just looks exactly like what you want a titan to be the type of guy like Brenton Strange we talked about throughout the season. Kate Otten has slap bang in that camp, a guy who is exceptional blocking on the move, opens up your entire offense. Isn't this dynamic guy after the catch who's going to stretch the

field, but is it in all the right spots, all the right times, catches everything thrown his way, and just makes the offense more explosive by his presence and is an outstanding run blocker. Yeah, but does he have a touchdown dance like Barner? Is he six foot eight like Barner? Am I overrating AJ Barner? I just feel like he helped unlock that that offense so well. I love me some AJ Barner. I love AJ Barner. I just think Otten is a slightly better all-around player, a bit more nimble, can move a little more. Barner, I think, was really impactful to unlocking what Seattle could do in the second half of the season, particularly in the run game. But I just think you can do a little bit more

with Otton. Two-year advantage, though, and I do think it's a position where, especially the guys that are asked to do so much blocking in a perfect world, are are going to peak years three, four, five, six, you know, seven. So that, that Barner was good. And I think that's true of Aten. He's really improved, I think, in his career. Am I too much of an Isaiah likely fan who's going to be on this show to put him with these two guys? It sounds like we're both leading maybe a hot take and putting out and overpits in the ranking.

It does likely belong in this tier or does he belong with the next group, which probably is like Chigoconquo, Dallas Goddard is still a good player at 31 years old. Injoku is in that mix. What do you think about, Likely? I love Mr. Isaiah Likely. He actually reminds me of Goddur in terms of where he's at his best in his usage, which is a lot of these like splitting back across the formation. He's an incredible blocker on the move.

He's not a guy you like line up and say, let's run behind him. And it's like having Gronkowski or one of the great titans, but opens up a ton for the Ravens in terms of how he can move across the formation, locate guys, attack them. and then has juice that I think a lot of the other people we would talk about don't quite have that vertical juice. I think he has still incredible untapped potential to have a monster season. Right. I mean, that's the part I'm struggling with because if you just kind of were scouting these guys for the draft, the NFL draft,

and you're just watching the tape, like wouldn't you take likely over both and the in pits at this point? Because it just looks so good and you're like, oh, the college you know, the college you went to, they didn't really know how to use them. why did he only get 36 targets? Why did they sign it? You know, why did Mark Andrews keep getting like another contract? All that worries me. I'm like, what are the, you know, the Ravens are a smart team.

He has a great quarterback with him. So the fact that he never was insanely productive and never, including this year, was like a featured part of their offense, worries me. Like weeks 15 and 16 of this season, Ollie, he didn't have a single target. I was like, did he not play? Nope, he was out there 40. So maybe what am I missing with Likeley or should we just be grading on potential? Because part of me thinks like he's more exciting than K. Doughton or Kyle Pitts.

It depends on what gets you out bed in the morning. Autumn makes me excited just for the predictability of how he plays the position. Likely has probably the five highlight plays that get you really fired up. And I think if you were asking someone like a Liam Cohen, someone in that vein who's really creative about offense. They would say, get me some Isaiah likely. I can do fun things with him that wouldn't be available with the others and he's willing to block and is up for the fight in a way someone like a Kyle Pitts may not be. And so there's real untow potential there. Well, also he joined us on NFL Daily. So that's, we also saw him in the elevator on the

way out on Saturday, me and my son, very nice guy. Uh, an enormous man. I, uh, like, what do you, like, why do you think? like the Ravens signing Mark Andrews to another contract in November bothers me. Like maybe they just thought they could not get likely. We're about to listen to this conversation. But my takeaway even more from like what he didn't say, just vibes wise, was like he knew his big contract is coming and it's almost certainly not coming with the Ravens. Maybe he got offers during the season and he was just like, oh, we're not even going to discuss this.

And that's why the Andrews contract happened. but also he never was that big of a part of the offense. So, like, do you think there is some sort of reason I'm missing here? I can't see the reason. I think there's a player in there who can get way more production. I think it'll be interesting to see if the Browns are interested, and Tob Munkin is like, I think there's more in there we weren't able to get to, and we can do a fun, Harold Fanon, Isaiah, likely two tight and mobile,

position versatile type players and have some fun with this thing. I think that'd be a pretty big tell if they were a team that was at least interested if they can't get a deal done. I like what you said up for the fight. He talked about that, that he really grew to embrace loving the fight of the blocking. And he's a willing blocker and he's a physical guy. Do you think, okay, the next group, Travis Kelsey,

I'm just kind of putting to the side. Like he's a Kansas City chief. I'll have to figure out where he goes in the overall structure. But he's just, he played pretty well last season. I thought he was good last season. but he's also just almost different than the rest of this conversation. The next group I have is Oconcoe got her in Injoko. If you're making this list, do any of those guys go up into the tier above and how are you sorting them?

I think there's some similarities between those guys. Chig O'Conco, for the listeners who are not familiar, is coming to the end of his rookie contract, a big physical tight end for the Titans who reminds me in a lot of ways how Jonu Smith, rookie contract went with the Titans. Obviously Dallas Goddard, one of the best titans of his generation, still very productive. And then Injoku made an announcement on Instagram saying goodbye to the Browns after saying a few months ago he'd be a Brown forever. But he's at the end of a contract that has a void year on it.

And I think he knows where the wind is blowing that they're not going to bring him back and he'll be a free agent. Yeah, Dallas Goddard is one of my favorite players of the past five, six years. how much is still in there, whether the Eagles were just bringing him back or not, I'm not so sure. He had the production this season. I thought his down-to-down play

was a pretty steep drop-off than what we've seen in recent seasons. Him as this kind of architectural type of, what we talk about with Kate Arterdown, likely this guy who can block on the move and his kind of ding has not been a great block because when he's in the trenches on his own one-on-one, it doesn't jump off the screen,

but what he opens up for you as a movable piece playing in the backfield, at such a high level that I still do love me some Dallas got out. And Oconquo's got some of that to his game too without the tread and the tires. I think he's one of the more under the radar frames who could have a big surge somewhere else. Yeah, I like Oconcoe. He's kind of a one beat of likely in that. I always thought he was going to be more productive.

I mean, he's also my type that just a big athletic guy who can make some vertical catches, but also when he's rolling down the field and running over lineback. Backers, he did it so quickly as a tight end, as a rookie, who it's a hard position to adapt to that you thought there'd be more. But the production never really changed that much, but you can leave them on the field. And I'm with you. I'm kind of leaning towards almost bumping him up to the bottom of the tier below in what will be the overall rankings.

And if I'm picking up, whether you're putting down, I think God are, you know, a little lower there. Yeah, I think Goddard has tremendous value to one franchise and maybe not. to plenty of others. Akonkwo is a difficult one because I do think the run game stuff is a real problem. He has a little bit of the pits where it's, are you just getting a guy who wants to be a wide receiver, but teams don't even address as kind of a mismatch piece? To have that impact,

and we've seen this with Dalton, Kincaid, and Dawson Knox with Buffalo, you can only have so many mismatch guys, and if they're not truly creating a size-ball mismatch, if the defense doesn't respect it, it's not a mismatch. If they just put a DB on that guy, it no longer becomes that kind of a mismatch for the game. the offense. And so with a Conco, it's a little bit like, are you just drafting a slower receiver when you could just have a receiver on the field, which is kind of where the Titans have got to

consistently saying, we'll just put a receiver on the field rather than have chig out there. And Joku, I just don't think is the consistent player that you want a little up and down right now. Of all the, there's a long other list of just others. Daron Waller, I had a good year for the dolphin when he came back. Do I have to put? Darren Waller on my 101. And like here's just a bunch of names I want to throw out because I want to get to our interview. You know, Waller, Tyler Higby, when he came back was, he's a consistent player. Like, he's going to help someone if it's not the Rams.

Daniel Bellinger's had some production with the Giants. He's now a free agent. Then we get pretty deep into it where it's the Titan two-threes with Austin Hooper and Charlie Kohler and probably not names that are going to make my list. But just in case they stand out to you. I don't know anyone there that you have a. soft spot for that you think might deserve a 101 ranking. I'm like, does Darren Wiler deserve to get back in there? I would rather be in the wall of business and the Injoku business, I think,

which is why no one will ever let me run a franchise, because I probably like a dummy eight months later. Charlie Kohler, I think, is really impactful, and someone's going to pick him up, and it's going to be a sneaky thing where we get to week eight of next season and say, is Charlie Kohler a key feature of this offense for reasons that remain unclear? But on the waller, I would still be really interested if he still wants to play obviously as just a dynamic red zone target can still really stretch the field. I was stunned how like live and nimble and explosive he still looks.

I would be big into the wall of business. Okay. Yeah, I think he might sneak in there. And yeah, Kohler is one of those. He'll get a better deal, I think, than people expect because every, there aren't, there aren't many guys like him blocking tight ends out. there. And then finally, look, there could be a lot of potential cuts this offseason and potential trades. Like the list at tight end alone is kind of outrageous I came up with. T.J. Hawkinson, cutting in would save $16 million. They could use it or trade. Like, that would make some sense.

Cole Comette, I mentioned. I don't know if he makes sense there anymore. John O'Smith and Pat Friermouth, both earning, I mean, they barely used Friermouth. I think he's solid, but if you're not going to use him, he could be a potential trade target. Dionyswit, maybe more of a cut. Dawson Knox, I thought of, two. Those were just like a few of the guys I could see absolutely being available, either in free agency or if you wanted to trade for him. I don't know if any of those guys kind of stand out as guys particularly available or

that you like. I think Fryeuf is 100% available. I think if Aaron Rogers comes back, he'll be the first guy to walk out the door. So I think you can go and pick up the phone. and get Friday move today, and I don't think it's going to be that expensive, and I think it would be a pretty great buy-low candidate for a team. I think Kipp Komett, too. I think he's a solid player. Maybe the bears, maybe he's solid enough the bears just want to keep him. But he just, he's like, I think during the final year of his contract,

they'd save a lot if they wanted to trade him. I think he's a solid player. He's perfect for them. He's effectively an extra lineman for you. And with the way teams are playing right now, he can be an incredibly valuable number two piece. It's just the receiving element of the game is so below the standard that it's a bit of a problem. But if you want to play in that heavier world, which a lot of teams do, and you don't want to commit to putting an extra alignment on the field, the next best thing is a call commit. And I know they gave up a lot for T.J. Hawkinson, and like he, you know, catches a lot of passes if you're a PPR fantasy owner, although until this year, but it's just a lot of, a lot of money and they need the money.

I have a feeling he could be available or cut. That's not one I've really seen throwing out there too much. But I don't think they would miss that much if they lost DJ Hawkinson. Am I wrong? No, I don't think so. Okay. All right. Ollie's helping me set the table.

He's a likely fan. I'm a likely fan. Hopefully, Isaiah likely gets more than 36 targets in 2026. Let's listen to my conversation. It's me. It's Nick Shook who met him at eye level, which I appreciated. And Isaiah likely, this was last week in San Francisco. welcoming in a man who is going to be ranked quite highly on my top 101 free agents list

coming up by assuming he makes it to free agency it is Isaiah likely of the Baltimore Ravens joining the show welcome Isaiah thank you for having me my man I don't know why I led with that right now maybe you know it's it's time to make make your money so what the hell why don't you pitch me about I'm going to watch a tape and obviously we've been watching you during your rookie contract, dynamic player, explosive. I think a lot of teams want tight ends like you, but why do you make the case to me, why you should be high on that list maybe compared to, you know,

some of the other tight ends and just what you've developed in your game over the last four years? Yeah, I mean, I feel like, you know, coming into the NFL, a lot of people didn't say I was a great blocker. And I feel like, you know, since I've been in the league, I put on tape that, you know, not only am I willing blocker, but I'm also not, you know, somebody that, goes on the field and you know what the concept is. You don't know if it's a past,

pass play, run play, or for play action anything. So just being able to be on the field, being able to do in line, outside, in the slot, in the back field, I feel like, you know, just being able to be that chess piece for the offense for the Ravens, you know, as I was the last four years, being able to be out there. And then when the ball's in my hands, being able to hit a home run for anywhere. So I feel like that's just, you know, something I bring to the team, whether it's, you know, enthusiasm on the field or on the sideline. I feel like, you know, being a leader is what I had. I like the idea of being a chess piece.

Because if you think about the way you fit into the Ravens offense, it's you and Mark Andrews. But as you approach free agency, a lot of teams are going to look at you as tight end one. For sure. What would you tell them if they were skeptical about you potentially owning that role? I say with me at tight end one, you get, like I said, the chess piece. I mean, I've prided myself on knowing where everybody is on the offense,

whether it's what a receiver has, the running back, where the quarterback protections is, you know, the drop, the yard marks on, what I have to do in my route. So being able to just being out there and be able to get open for the quarterback. I mean, I pride myself on being able to make spectacular grabs, you know, whether it's down the field or intermediate or whether it's short, being able to have that, you know,

piece where the quarterback trusts me to put the ball in my hand and make a play for them. I mean, and they ask you to block. Obviously, you're willing. You have no choice. But it has surprised me at times how, like, that's such a big part of your role. What was it like kind of in these last couple years?

And I know Todd Monkin's moved on. It's going to be a different type of Ravensie. But being a part of that offense with Lamar and the kind of versatility that you guys had. Like what was that experience, especially these last two years? Yeah. I mean, you know, I'll start off with when you play with the Ravens, you know that as long as you have doose, deuce, Deerick Henry behind you, you're going to run that ball. So it's just getting into the mindset of, okay, I can't have my guy make the play because, one, I don't want to hear Derek Henry saying, nothing. I don't want to hear Lamar say nothing. And I don't want to be, you know, the guy that

always has, you know, blocking backside or a loss for my guy. So really just take it the standpoint of just never let my guy make the play, whether it's I'm blocked for Lamar and the outside of a quarterback driven, blocking for Derek Henry on the goal line or in the middle of field and really just being able to, you know, trust my leverage, trust whatever I have and understand that, you know, I'm never going to be the biggest guy blocking. So just going from my standpoint of, okay, what can I do for my guy not to make the play? And that's most of the, most of the side of, you know, you know, outside where we had Lamar Jackson, where it's, if he has the ball on his hands, you know, he's always going to make at least two people miss.

So making sure that, you know, I get him a lane to run where he's clean slate so he can hit 21. Can you take us inside the mind of, because like when people think about catching passes, first they think of receiver, but that they think of tight end. And obviously, you'd like to be running routes all the time. Sure. You know, you block because you have to, but you're also willing to. So can you take us inside the mind of a tight end on the field on a Sunday? Like, because you know that you're not just looking to catch passes.

For sure. And I say, you know, you know, the emphasis in our room is when you're 111. And whether that's in the blocking game, whether that's in the past game, whether that's in the past protection game, whether that's anywhere on the field because football's traditionally into segments and situations. So, you know, when you're up in Baltimore, it was a lot, you know, last year where it's four-minute drill. Well, a lot of teams in four-minute know that you're going to run the ball. So now it's willing on, okay, how do we get those two first downs to end the game?

So now it's we're in heavy personnel where you have at least three tight ends on the field, counting Pat Ricard, and how do you get those two first downs to get victory formation to end? Or it's when you're a tight end and you're in two-minute drill before the half or end in the game, how do you get those first downs to get to chance to have your kick and make a game-winning field goal or to win a game-win touchdown? And I feel like, you know, with Baltimore, they were letting me go, whether it was outside, in the slide, in line, motion me, and be able to, you know, have matchups where it's, okay, Isaiah's on the linebacker, okay, how do we get him the ball the quickest way possible?

Isaiah is on the safety. How do we get the ball up high enough to make him go and make a play? Isaiah has a corner on him. How do we have a big body player make a play? And I feel like, you know, Baltimore did a great job with me the last couple of years, being able to, you know, show the world my standpoint emphasis on what I can do with the ball in my hand or in the route game.

I mean, you're showing the world what you can do with that chain. For people watching on YouTube, a big, likely chain. I don't know what my question is, But, I mean, if you're going to wear a chain like that, I feel like you're going to want to talk about it a little bit. I mean, okay, so my first chain come into the league and I got my area code, 617, where I'm from in Massachusetts, and then likely, and then obviously I got my initials for everything on the back.

Yeah. See, I didn't realize you were a mass. Where are you from? I'm from Western Massachusetts. Okay, okay. You're born in Cambridge. Yeah. You're classier.

I'm out in the sticks. What was it like being next to Lamar for 40? Like, I don't know if you have any perspective that maybe the average fan, someone like me wouldn't have that something you see in practice that just like that it makes you say, wow, that just the rest of the world doesn't even see. I'll say, you know, my first time meeting in Lamar, everybody, you know, when you play Madden,

you pay the Ravens, you pay Lamar Jackson, you're making plays all around the field doing crazy stuff. So, you know, my first day seeing him do it out there, on the practice field, and then, like, literally telling my friends, like, texting my friends, right when I get to my locker, like, bro, I just have my first practice with Lamar Jackson. And then, like, him just walking up to, you know, my locker and smack me upside the head. Like, just doing it.

Like, he just had no reason, just did it. And I was just like, hey, Lamar, like, what it is? And he was just like, so? So just having, you know, that, you know, big brother mentality with him. And I feel like we've grown to the aspect of, you know, that's my big brother at any day. Like, I do anything for Lamar, right, right, wrong different. That's my guy. And that's why I stand up here and talk about how good he is and how good.

great he is because at the end day like he'll do anything for the team for you as long as he loves you and i feel like you know him open me up open r is my rookie year being a super uh super star caliber player that he is was just you know heartwarming because at the end day like i've seen him as lamar jackson like NFL MVP everything all goods and glamour of everything he's done and then like him to just open me open arms call him l call me big brother laugh and joke him all day i can hit i can hit Lamar upside the head in the middle of the day and won't nobody, he won't say nothing about it. He'll probably hit me back, but that's just my big brother. It's like you're going to say it's not going to go as well for me.

If I try to, it shook upside the head, like that's going to end quick. It'd be like a little like, put you in a little chokehold. You give you a nuggie, like your little brother type of thing. It sounds like Lamar went from like mythical figure to like brother, you know. What about, you know, being on the field in that week 18 game in Pittsburgh? Like, can you take us back through that moment, those moments, especially in that wild fourth quarter? Yeah. I'll say fourth court.

like, okay, I always tell everybody, like, when Lamar gets in this mode where it's like, he'll get on the sideline and like he's like telling everybody, like, it don't matter what's going on out there. As long as I have the ball in my hand, we're going to, we're going to score this drive. And that fourth quarter in Pittsburgh, he had that look. And I told everybody on that sideline, like, as long as eight has the ball last in this game, we're going to win this game. So, you know, that whole fourth quarter where he's doing everything, breaking tackles,

breaking sacks, throwing touchdowns, it was crazy. And then we get to the fourth down play where it's like, okay, the first two plays that work, now we're in third down. Now we're in third down. Now it's like, okay, we get in the huddle, we get to break. We get to breathe a little bit. And I looked at all. And I was like, if anything, if anything, look at me, I got you.

Like, and I try to have that aspect in my game where it's like the quarterback's best friend. Understand that, you know, if the quarterback puts the ball in the air for me, I got to go make a play for him, right, wrong, or indifferent, wherever it is. So I just gave him that look like, if you don't see nothing out there and you see me running, just throw the ball of it. make a play. And that's what he did. And that's exactly what he did. He sat back, went up and just looked at it and put the ball in there because that's my biggest

thing with L. I tell him, like, if anything, just put the ball up where nobody can get it but me. And that's exactly what he did in the fourth down. I went to go get the ball. And then I kind of blacked out. Yep, that's that always goes. That's incredible. Is there any spots you're looking at?

Thinking about not really necessarily. I mean, I obviously want to be in a situation where, you know, a quarterback's already, you know, established himself, showing that he's, you know, able to make probably every throw in the field. I understand that I want to be, you know, in a situation where I'm prioritized. I can be the tight end that I want to be. I can be the tight end that the team needs me to be.

And I can show the team that not only, you know, am I capable of making, you know, splash plays, but I can do everything that you need me to do. That look on your face at first told me, like, yeah, I got a couple of them. It's not wise to let those out now. My agent told me not. Yeah, exactly. If you think about it, though, you end up with the young quarterback. Tidens tend to be their best friends.

For sure. It could be a high-volume situation for you. Yeah. And I'll say that. You know, just watching, even the situation that just happened with Chicago, like Loveland being that, you know, best friend to Caleb in situations. I mean, I saw Loveland get like 15 targets. I don't want to say this past game or the game before that he played where they won.

He had 15 targets. But when you have a hot hand like that, Tideon is hard. because you have a linebackers are usually too slow to guard you, a safety. That's usually the quote unquote favorable matchup, but in the tight end perspective, I'd never want, like if I see man coverage, I got to win. And corners are too small. So it's always just, I feel like that's, you know,

the best position to throw the ball to on the field. That's just me saying it's not like I played tight end. A little bit of bias. Yeah, a little bit of bias. I feel like that's, no, exactly what the quarterback's looking for. Whether, you know, Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelsey all these years, I'll say, Trey McBride with whoever he had. quarterback, Resett threw him the ball a lot.

Kyle was throwing him the ball a lot. Brock Bowers, Tyler Warren. I keep going down the list. But I feel like, you know, when you have a quarterback, when your tight ends is your best friend, I feel like good things happen. We're in a great era for tight ends, too. So congratulations on being in the NFL during this time. And it's a lot of interesting names.

It's got to be part of our content and what we're talking about coming up because Kyle Pitts right now, Kate Otten's an interesting guy. But you're going to be high on that list. Travis Kelsey, I mean, he's probably just coming back to Kansas City. If he does come back, Godder, Oconcoe. There's a lot of guys that could be out there, but I'm really looking forward to seeing where you land, and who knows, might be back in Baltimore.

Isaiah Likeley, thanks for joining us. Appreciate you guys for having. Yeah, I really appreciated that conversation with Isaiah Likely. And I've talked to a few people that, like, people are just fans of Isaiah Likely, like the dude, the player. So I do think he's going to have fans around the league, and the Browns would make a lot of sense now that you mention it. Ali, I'll release you.

What rookies are you studying right now? Like, where are you at? We're in full linebacker mode right now. I am addicted unhealthly to Keishon Elliott out of Arizona State, who I believe is like 308th on the consensus board, but I just saw Dane Brukler put him in his top 100. Dane does seem to influence all the other big balls. I've noticed that when Dane says something,

all of a sudden guys fly up. So I think we'll see Keeshaun Elliott become considered like a late riser when people just get to the film and see this guy is a really impressive linebacker. I love that. And I know linebackers are near and dear to you. your heart. We're going to be going through all the rankings. And if for anyone that hasn't been listening to 40s and free agents, I've been doing a similar type of conversation with Daniel Jeremiah, bouncing off my free agency list, a quarterback, running back wide receiver with DJ, and we'll

keep rolling through the positions in the coming weeks. That's it. We will have one more show this week. And then I'm going into the mind. I'm putting my free agency list ready. And we might take a little bit of a long weekend here at NFL Daily. But it's one of my favorite new annual me, Bill Barnwell, going through the top trade candidates of the entire off season. We nailed some of them last year. See if we can do it again on Friday. We'll see you then. This is an IHeart podcast.

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