NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - GM Power Rankings

Episode Date: April 11, 2019

A room filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Chris Wesseling, Gregg Rosenthal and Marc Sessler bring you all the latest news around the NFL including the Redskins potentially not pursuing Josh Rosen (09:03) the Giants paying Sterling Shepard, (12:04) and Aaron Rodgers thinking the Bleacher report article was a "positive" (14:00). The heroes give their GM power rankings to end the show. (26:25).Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hanses and I'm joined in room filled with here. Rose, Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosenthal. What is up, boys? Hey, Dan. Welcome to the Thursday show. We're now exactly two weeks away from the NFL draft. How about that?

What was it that you were saying to me as our mics were cut? You defamed me as we were going about to enter the show, and I did not hear the insult. I did not defame you, but every once in a while when we are in the studio, Mark is a little impatient when we're doing too much chattering before because you're trying to get home or out of here. And I had a bit that I was saying what you were actually going to because you told us you were going home because you had to do chores. None of us believe you. So there's something, you're doing something after the show today. I had a bit, but I can't say it on air because it's my current life cannot be more dull.

So I have no other plan to hatch. It is 10.57 and we were supposed to start the pot at 10 a.m. Well, we had some things we had to tape some television appearances. In theory, we're going to start at 1040. It is 1058. I mean, if you want to see this. I know that Wes agrees with me. Light attitude from Mark, you can check out up to the minute on Friday.

Our hit will likely be around 1145. There you go. Drop what you're doing at your job and go run to a local tavern where it's on with no sound. I don't know. I do agree with you, but only because in the seven years, of this podcast or six years, it has never once started on time. Well, we would have had, yeah, well, you're right.

There's a lot of complaining for delays that were done to ensure the podcast was better today. That's what it's about. I am not complaining. I'm just pointing out a fact. That's what I'm doing also, simply operating in facts clock time. All right.

No one loves chores more than Mark, Esther. That's what I've learned today. There are no chores. Come do these chores. All right, today's show. Got a good one. Oh, yeah, two weeks from the draft and mentioned this on the Twitter show

in passing during a segment we did and you could check out our Twitter show. I think I have it pinned on the top of my Twitter profile if you want to get it there. It's a good show. You're on the episode. Twitter show we do every Wednesday. But I said how if you could throw one thing into the black hole,

it is this period of the calendar, which just seems excessive and unnecessary. I fleshed it out a little bit just to, if any, shadowy league figures are listening. In fact, I'm going to pound in some tables and go upstairs with this because I think this works. And let me know if you agree. So, Super Bowl, first Sunday in February, fine.

Combine, last week in February, first week of March. Fine. Mid-March, free agency, the new league year. Fine. So far, everything's okay. Now we get into trouble, right? So the owner's meetings at the end of March, that's fine. But what I want to do there is build in a GM ice cream social.

that same weekend. And these guys can really get in the room together, you know, have some desserts and work out different deals and have the conversations that you need ahead of the draft. During this time, all the pro days, they have to be done by March 1st. So let's not drag out the pro day process. Thank you.

And after your ice cream social, though next week, the first Thursday of April is the draft. Who says no? Just condense this stuff. Open up the spring a little bit. Nobody that cares about quality of life would say no. I think that's an improvement. But I also think the suggestions in the past that they,

and I think a lot of people inside the league would agree with this, that you put the draft before free agency is intriguing. That you do the combine, and then you do the draft right after that, basically. You do the draft where free agency would be now, or maybe even a week before, and then you do free agency after that. It would be a whole different way to build teams, Other leagues do this. The WNBA had their draft like a day after the NCAA tournament,

and the NBA essentially does the same thing where they do it immediately after the NBA season ends. They have the draft the next week. It's great for us. It's like the NFL, which, you know, is overtly attempting to stretch the calendar out to the point where there's no free months at all. But every coach of the combine's like,

Ivan even had a second to look at tape. Don't even ask me about quarterback X. So you're truncating and compacting their schedule. Maybe the ones who don't like it. Well, that's easy to say. As we continue to learn, they all lie. They got time. They're watching.

Even if they've said, I haven't had time to even look at the tape. They've been pouring through all this tape. It's all lies. What did DJ say, especially this two-week period? It's all a lie. It's all a lie. And now I'm starting to learn about the business almost 10 years in. Everything is lies at all times.

And you've got to parse that. That's why I have Chris Wessling here. I remember when Andy Reid stood up there and said over and over again, I am not trading Donovan McNabb. Then like two days later, traded Donovan. I mean, it's all lies. All right. Here we go.

Today's show. Sorry children out here. We're really disabusing you of your optimism at a young age. That's true. We're actually pretty big in the 8 to 10 year old demographic, surprisingly. Destroy that demo. Let's defend football for a second. I mean, the number of lies is minuscule compared to, let's.

say the arena of politics. Okay. So, you know. And they're mostly white lies. It's all relative. This running back, we're not letting go of them. I'm like, that's fine. If you do, the world continues to operate.

That's fair. Hey, general managers, yes, they lie. Sometimes it's lies of omissions. Sometimes it's just straight up lies. And I don't know if you factor in their ability to tell the truth or willingness to tell the truth and the general manager power rankings. But we're going to do it today. We're going to put the general managers of the NFL

into different groups and break down who's cutting the mustard and who's the opposite of what cutting the mustard is. I wonder where that came from. Seems weird that you cut mustard. Yeah, very strange. And, of course, we're going to do some news. Let's start there. And, yes, let's start, speaking of the Twitter show,

with some news that we broke in the NFL world, the cognizante. Let's hit it, Ricky. I mean, if you're quitting bagels, he might as well be quit in life. Live a little. I can't disagree with you there, Greg. I mean, you should eat what you want in life. Overrated food.

You know, maybe don't, you know, just eat with some nice portion control and then you can eat whatever you want. Eat bad food all the time. All right, let me say, because you and I have two very different body types, that some people can eat what they want. And even if you do some portion control, it just doesn't work the same way. But I think, to your point, don't have two bagels.

a week or a day have one we're not talking about like a double cheeseburger with bacon on it it's a it's a bagel it's bread it's carb it fills you up it's carbony it's fine like you need that for your life bagels are the food that work at any time of the day in my opinion except when you don't want to over chew your food it's it's it's the thing i miss the most about new york is the bagels because you could even find a good slice of pizza in l.A it's not easy but you can find it. Bagels. I would like you to come to New York bagels on Wilshire in 22nd and just check.

In there, good shop. Writing it down. Wilshire in 22nd. Hang on. Wilshire. 20 second. I'll pop over there on a Sunday morning about 7.50. You know, sort of in my pajamas.

And I'm back. Just a treat to everyone else. A park in my home. Your metabolism just going crazy. I could drive there and be back. with the with the bagels in like 11 minutes total. I think I accidentally dropped an F-bomb there, Ricky. It was only like 40% of an F-bub.

All right, let's get into the news. We didn't break the news. Sorry, I just want to be clear. Mike Garofolo, our friend, NFL Network's own, Mike Garifolo, an East Coast guy. He was on our around the NFL Twitter show on Wednesday. The subject of Josh Rosen and his future came up. Rosen, who did report to workouts, voluntary workouts with the Cardinals,

but seems like his days are numbered in Arizona with Kyler Murray on the way. I asked Mike during the show if he buys into the reports out there that the Washington Redskins are a likely or potential landing spot for Rosen. Here's what Mike said. No, no, that's not true. I heard that myself. They have done a little bit of homework here or at least tried to figure out what the Cardinals price would be, but they're not actively chasing him. And I don't know that

they haven't a hard offer on the table because I know for a fact that they are still going through the motions with the guys in the draft currently and that they've had made no firm decision about are we going to draft a guy or are we going to go the Josh Rosen route or try to trade for somebody. I just don't sense it. I really, everything that I've been told, I asked Ian Rappaport about this yesterday. We briefly touched about it on his podcast. He's hearing the same thing. So I don't really believe that it's a sizzling market for Josh Rosen. And Mike made a point too, Greg, that I thought was a good one that there is talk. Well, keep them both on the roster. And that does, there is definitely logic to that. Keep them both on the roster and then trade Rosen down the line. Is his value actually

going to get better once you bury him on the bench for a month or a year or whatever it is? This probably is, if you want to get the best value, it's probably in the next three months or so, I'd say. Could be. He made the point that a team that suffers an injury isn't going to be looking to a second year quarterback to take over. They would rather kind of a replacement level veteran, which that makes some sense.

And it makes sense that the Redskins need to go through these rookie quarterbacks to evaluate Rosen versus them. Because if they like a quarterback that they can, take let's say with their second they think they'll be able to take with their second round pick and they like them better than Josh Rosen and then that's what you do or even maybe their first round pick. If they liked him enough

they would suspend their due diligence and trade for him now but they are not overwhelmed obviously by what Josh Rosen put on tape last year. I think the difference too is with the draftable quarterbacks and Gruden has said look at if we're taking someone at 15 he's not a project he starts

right away. He's like there's a lot of veterans on this team that aren't going to use the year 20, 38 to win, they're going to start right away. And they have a chance to meet and get to know every one of these quarterbacks. And he talked about grilling them hard on third down situations, all sorts of whiteboard stuff. Josh Rosen, because I don't think they did a ton of homework on Josh Rosen last year after trading for Alex Smith, you're having to bring in a guy who is a polarizing figure. We might like them, but there are a ton of GMs and coaches in the NFL that are scared of the Josh Rosen experience based on various anecdotes and reports. And I don't know if that's

perfect fit for Jay Gruden. We've never seen Jay Gruden try to develop a guy. I mean, the closest he's come to it is Colt McCoy. And Colt McCoy played out first. Didn't he develop cousins? He did, but he didn't draft him. I mean, that wasn't his choice. That was Kyle Shanahan's guy. And yeah, he did develop up. I guess I mean a guy where, hey, we're going to choose a Redskins quarterback and hopefully he can, you know, be the future of the position. They've never, they've never had that. Moving on, the Giants continue to move on in a post-Odell Beckham world. The Giants are in the process of finalizing a four-year $41 million extension with

Sterling Shepard, Mike Garifolo, reported the deal would make Shepard the team's highest paid wide receiver. Of course, Golden Tate also joined the Giants in free agency. So that is the one-two punch there at wide receiver. Shepard, West, has never had a 1,000-yard season. And, yes, quarterback play and injuries have held him back. but this is, to me, this is a good signing. It's a nice salary for the guy that hasn't done a lot,

but I think there's upside there with Sterling Shepard. I mean, you could look at it like he basically got the Adam Humphreys deal. Slot receiver for the Titans got four years, $40 million around there. And Sterling Shepard, to me, is a better receiver. He's sort of a high-end number two, not quite a number one, and I think the contract reflects that. I think he's underrated, or maybe not underrated, because I think people respect him.

but he's a better player than his numbers indicate. I think this was a very good value for the Giants in terms of the money that they got because I think if he was a free agent or you got to next year and he's probably going to have a big season in terms of volume, he would cost a lot more. I mean, their third wideout right now is Corey Coleman.

So it's not as if the need has been entirely washed over. Right. You got to keep finding out of the player. And I saw some criticism. I guess some people are down on Shepard. Like he's not even as good as some other wide receivers who've got similar money. I disagree. I think this is actually a good

value. And I'm not worried about Golden Tate and him being duplicative. Yes, they're both better on the inside than outside, but you're not making your three to four year plan around Golden Tate. And I think we all like Evan Ingram too, and of course the running back is special. So there is talent in place on the offensive

side of the ball. They just need to address the quarterback. But it was there last year too. It's just less this time around. Moving on. following up on the Bleacher Report bombshell around Aaron Rogers and Mike McCarthy.

Rogers spoke on the radio since the last time we did a podcast but then he was at voluntary workouts with the Packers this week and he elaborated on his comments

in the initial response to the article which he called by the way a smear attack here's what Aaron Rogers said on Wednesday well first of all standby and everything I said, you know, and I just kind of want to refer to that as far as any other comments go. I said it on the show, and I meant it. It has been a great week. I've heard from, you know, 100-plus former teammates and coaches and current teammates and coaches, and

that's fun, especially some of the guys you haven't heard from in a while, checking in and encouraging you. And let me just throw out his comments or part of his comments to ESPN, Milwaukee, radio station. The thing is about this article, it's not a mystery. This was a smear attack by a writer looking to advance his career, talking with mostly irrelevant bitter players who all have an agenda. Rather, they're advancing their own careers or just trying to stir old stuff up. Then what happens is the same tired media folks picking it up and talking about it. It's just emphasizing their opinion about me already. I think it's valid for him to push back on it, but I

was most interested in the places that he and then Mark Murphy, the president, pushed back. They were strongest about saying that the conversation between Murphy and Rogers, where Murphy, the president, told him, don't be the problem. They were so adamant that that didn't happen. Where to the point, like, that's how, when people are denying things, you kind of look like, how hard are they denying some of these things? The smear attack stuff, that doesn't hold water for me. He's used this attack before.

That's not what's going on. I get that Greg Jennings and Jermichael Finley are basically enemies of Aaron Rogers who are trying to bury him. And I think when you're reading that, you have to take that into account. But they weren't the only two people talking in it. But when they talked about the Murphy Rogers' conversation, they're so hard against it, they kind of convinced me, okay, maybe that part of the equation did not happen that way. And that was one of the more interesting parts of the story.

Nothing about like Tyler Dunn or what we know about him suggests a guy who's writing smear attacks, and it was too, the research was too wide and what he put it in, the picture he painted was too convincing. I do think, though, if you're Aaron Rogers, it is fair to be annoyed by what are repeated, if it's a minority, it is a repeat incident of certain players bashing him over and over. And if you're him, it is encouraging to hear from a hundred plus people that say, there is no way to have one overall opinion of Aaron Rogers that everyone must agree to. he's a guy that generates different reactions for different reasons. And I don't have a problem with a starting quarterback rubbing a couple starters the wrong way over the course of his career.

I was sorry I missed this discussion the first time around because it reminded me so much of reading the Jordan rolls, the book by Sam Smith that came out in the early 90s with all the teammates talking about Jordan. And Jermichael Finley playing the Horace Grant role where the personalities just clash. Yep. He said that Aaron Rogers is like an addict. and I got to thinking, what is he addicted to? It's sort of the hyper-competitive stubbornness and ego when you're invested so heavily that a lot of great athletes have. It's a byproduct of that competition addiction, and it's hard to put up with ineptitude when you're so invested.

I think actually Antonio Brown has some of this in him. But I think, like, Mark Murphy says this is a positive for Aaron Rogers, and that's why I see it as a positive, because he's out to prove to everyone this year, he's not the problem in Greenback. Well, and there's multiple ways to kind of look at all of these issues. For instance, Mark Towsher, who did this interview, it's kind of his home base weekly radio spot that he's done with Jason Wildy forever, Aaron Rogers. So it's kind of just interesting how you play the media these days that,

okay, I'm going to make my statements on my home base station and then refer the actual questions to report that from everyone else to those statements, which I think is fair to. look at as not cowardly but it's convenient you know you're not really answering the questions that are out there and rogers has a long history of instilling fear in the reporters and maybe teammates around him that he'll he'll kind of strike back at you if you don't like the way that he's talking and one more rogers note he revealed on that radio show um that his leg injury suffered in week one that opener, Sunday night opener, was more serious than perhaps was reported.

In addition to a sprain knee, an MCL sprain, he had a tibial plateau fracture, which, if that sounds familiar, that is the same injury that ended J.J. Watts season back in 2017, costing the final three months. Now, some people then will say, well, he's making excuses because he didn't have the best year. All right, your mileage may depend on this one. But if it's true, and I don't imagine he's lying about the injury, it might give you a little more insight why Rogers did not have a Rogers-like season because that is a serious injury.

He did some good things. If he was going to make excuses, he'd have done it during the season. He played through that. Give him credit for it. I do want to say one last thing because I do think this whole thing's fascinating. And this is in defense of Tyler done too.

The article was mostly about the toxic relationship between Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rogers. And when you listened and read between the lines of what Rogers said on this radio station, he was not nearly as accurate. adamant pushing back against that. He brought up some little facts, like, why would I re-signed and this and that? But I think the point was that they, their relationship ultimately undermined the Packers. He did not push back against that. And that's the part of the story I still, I believe,

and I think it held a lot of weight. He pushed back too hard, just like Jordan did about the Jordan rules, because it ultimately showed a flawed human being, which we all are. And people understand that about Aaron Rogers and Michael Jordan. Meanwhile, on the throne of ease. The Patriots are in a post-gronk world, and they made a move this week. They signed Austin Safarian Jenkins to a one-year vet minimum contract rap sheet reported. Of course, the last time you heard about ASJ, he was the starting tight end of the graybeard, so I bid him a do. I view him as a player with still upside, and he'll probably have roughly 1,200 yards on the Patriots this season, if that's how it works. Yes, Dwayne Allen released.

as well by the Patriots off-season. So they have a wide-open tight-end room, and ASJ enters the pole position as their top guy. I don't know if he'll stay there. I think if their goal was to find someone who reminded them of the November gronk, who Dan decided was washed up, they found the right guy.

Well, not really because he's not a blocker at all. He's a big, huge tight end who is theoretically a blocker and can't really move well enough to be a huge threat as a recent. He's had some moments. I mean... He doesn't move well.

I'm not criticizing the rundown in any way, but I cringed when I saw they signed Seferian Jenkins as gronk replacement. I was like, oh, my gosh. I mean, he's not a gronk replacement. Okay, then Matt Lacoste is the gronk replacement. I mean, somebody's got to replace it. He got $50,000 signing bonus. So that usually means you're almost unlikely to make the team.

They're going to draft someone, I hope. And then I think Severian Jenkins might be a nice little upside guys as a number two. And I heard that little arrow, Wes. Gronk was mostly washed up last year. He put it together because he's an all-time great and had a couple of games. Put it together because he got healthy. He was washed up when he was playing through a high ankle spring.

He's getting out at the right time. It's finished, Wes. Finish. What I saw in January, the guy could definitely still play it. He got them a sixth Super Bowl. He got it did it. Oh, you're a Patriots fan again now. Oh, I'm always going to be a fan of this era.

I mean, it's been shifting endlessly over the last couple of years. I said once Belichick has gone, so we're still well into it. Fair. Stephen Gostowski also re-signed with the Patriots, putting an end to the most boring saga of the offseason. Will the Patriots retain their kicker? And they have.

Good for them. I looked at their roster, and I thought, if Jason Garrett was the coach, how many wins would you give the Patriots? Tom Brady's still the quarterback. I would get that's a good question 11 wins nine stop uh yeah i'd put the over under at eight and a half uh and fine one last patriot note uh a chiefs fan was cited for shining a laser pointer at tom brady in the a fc title game he was a 64 year old man oh come on grow up peter pan 64 and you're at a football game

shining a laser light into the eyes of a... I mean, it only makes sense that he's older because that was a very popular classroom trick like in the late 80s and early 90s. I remember people would take it to the movie theater too and it's like, bro, what are you getting out of this?

It's not a great or good, Frank, no. It's amazing what he was able to overcome in that game. He really brought together. Eric and I remember watching it up here at the end together. It was beautiful. moment finally so you are a patriots fan that's good i was i am i am i said through the belichick

era it's not like a drop we should have like a something on the wall and we know is frank a patriots fan today always be a fan yes or no yeah i don't think the narrative is constantly changing finally in the news the eagle signed wide receiver charles johnson to a one-year deal um he's the latest or just one of many uh aaf players who have now found homes uh with nif teams, which is a great thing because the way that league folded was a disgrace. I think we could all agree. It wasn't necessarily the fault of all the people involved with that operation, but the way it fell apart was just not fair to the players involved.

So it's good to see some guys getting deals. Johnson, who was on the Orlando Apollos, led the league in receiving. He had 687 yards and 5 TDs on 45 catches in just eight games. So that guy was balling out, as the kids say, and now he'll get a chance. to stick around with the Eagles. He's an interesting guy. There have been portions of his career where you thought with his size and athletic ability,

he's got like number one receiver potential and he's just always been injured or having run-ins with coaching staffs or they just don't trust him. And the teams seem to move on from him pretty quickly. Is this the same, Charles Johnson? Yeah. I mean, we've been on this guy's path for half a decade.

Former seventh round pick of the Packer. Incredibly underwhelmed by what he's produced. More than 30, yeah, he was a making the leap guy. Did we say that? Remember back in the date? More than 30 guys from the AAF have signed, including, I think, their sack leader, J. Ron Elliott. But I found it in none from the Memphis team.

So terrible job by Memphis, developing talent. There are no shit. But I thought it was interesting. The dolphins who are, you know, in this kind of rebuilding thing, they signed by far the most. They have seven AAAF players on their roster. I think the Steelers signed sick. Which is like, I think that's smart actually.

Who did that? Who made that sign? The Dolphins. Oh, the dolphins did? They're trying a little different approach. We're hopping in a tank to talk a little A&M signings in Miami. I like it. I love it.

And they might be on to something. This is like if you can hit on one or two of these guys. Or they might not be on to anything. We'll see. Or it's part of the organic fish tank. Let's get a bunch of guys from a lower tier of professional football and pass them off as actual top tier talent. That checks out. And go three and 13.

Also a possibility. That's what's happening. happening in the news. All right. Controversial SEG because Greg, I feel like you've had to deal with some pushback in the past from general managers and teams over an article that you write every spring. Well, this was last year was the first time. And yes, it got quite a bit of pushback.

Yeah, both internally and externally, fair to say. Well, what would the internal problems be? Like, you know, Greg, you know, not a great job here. Could have done better work. Yeah, West feels that about most of the things I produced. But other than that, I would do. I think internally, like most articles produced internally are met with like a quiet art, basically.

Yeah, I would say internally was met with indifference. But the bears were unhappy. Someone in the Chicago Tribune wrote a whole article about ranking Ryan Pace too low. And you know what? He then won an executive of the year. So I got my favorite. Does that shake your confidence a little bit going into this year?

Because it's not up on the site. You still have to write it. It's coming. I have a, you know, I've been working on it, but it's not coming until next week. This is more, you guys are going to, you know, we're all going to make her own. This is a separate exercise. Greg's GM power angles will come up down the line, but this will be our discussion about it. And I think, you know, the good way to break it down is, first of all, who are the new GMs?

Because even though they did, they've had the free agency, they haven't had a draft yet. So they get the incomplete grade. So we're going to leave out who have four or five teams in the, conversation. Chris Greer for the Dolphins would be one. Right. So people let. I don't really consider him a new GM, but fair enough. I do because he didn't have the decision making power. And they were pretty clear about about that before that he was kind of just. Brian Goudicunst is pretty new. I would put. But we got to be going first guy. It's kind of hard to judge because he was in cappel. Anyone that's had really less than than that was hired before 2000, I mean after the

2018, like the start of that off. Got you. Have you divided Marty Herney into two people, the pre-gettelman and the post-Gettlement? I like that. That's fair. All right, so let's get into it.

So factoring guys that have a little bit more of runway to shape the team, let's break it down. Let's start here, actually. Let's start with kind of the gold standard. Who are the GMs or team builders that even if they have a bad office? season you don't you're not shaking in their confidence they're just guys that are kind of above even

this conversation of risers and fallers and all that who belichick obviously has to be at the top of i would put howie roseman in that group i would too and i would put kevin colbert there and not everything he's done is perfect but i think he has a 20 almost a 20 year track record to clarify howie roseman of the eagles and kevin colbert of the steelers right and uh i think colbert over time you have to kind of just trust how he's managed all the different ways of that roster. He does a really good job of kind of filling in holes that aren't even holes yet, and then they develop them, and then they have players ready to step in. Wes, I just want to applaud you.

I want to take a real quick break here to applaud the advances as a broadcaster there. You said I threw out some names, and most football fans are going to know which teams they were, but as a broadcaster you said I'm going to make sure you know that Colbert is with the Steelers you know you're going to know Rosemans with the Eagles I think if we did not have a big listenership in other

countries I wouldn't do that as much but I always think of like our United Kingdom fans and our European fans and our Australian New Zealand and Mexican and all that's why I do it because I know a lot of them are new to the game you imagine like NBC night nightly news stopping down for like two

reporters to compliment each other how they handled the previous segment. Thank you for that compliment, Dan. That's better than Greg's unfair attack on what I would do with his article. I was surprised to hear that. I was joking. I was joking.

This GM ranking, who really knows? It's just entirely subjective. Of course. All right, here we go. So Belichick, Roseman, Colbert. We don't want to put anybody else in that list? I wouldn't put him right there, but John Schneider and...

Thomas Dimitrov is... Those two guys I thought, too. I would put it right under that. Yeah, they're hovering where... Dimitrov and who? John Schneider. And you know what? Schneider, and I'm glad you guys are really helping me do this exercise.

You mean Thomas Dimitroff of the Atlanta Falcons? Yes. And John Schneider of the CL Seahawks. Thanks. Well done. I really think we should just stop down and talk about the, you know... High five, Mark. The hosting ability that Dan's really distributed.

The leadership. Schneider had a really good year. I think Schneider and Carol, you can't really separate. separate them. You could almost put Pete Carroll right there with Schneider because you know that he's part of the personnel decisions. The fact that they were able to rebuild on the fly and they never turned into a losing team. Like there's this feeling I think that 2017 Seahawks like totally fell apart. They went nine and seven and then they're back in the playoffs this year. So they're right there. I think Schneider is going to be moving up ahead of Dimitra. I would put less

Sneed in this group too personally. I'm with you. I agree. I don't know what at what more he'd need to do to be near the top. They showed great patience as an organization and see they believed in even when the results weren't there. And now we're going on two straight years, two NFC West titles. And I think in general, one of the things you want in a front office is you want to be able to trust the guy's vision. And I think they absolutely do.

And I put him in that right below the tier. I think also like you don't have the trade tsunami become anything more than just talk unless you have less need being one of the guys that led the charge there. I mean, it's changed the way the GM's up. I think you're right, and it's a good, it's a good question for me to have to deal with writing the rankings. It's like, how much

do you knock him for the Jeff Fisher era? Essentially, is this a power ranking of where they are currently, or is it a total, like, last year I think I looked at it because I'd never done it before and thought maybe it's a one-off of their entire job. And you got to knock him a little bit for the Jeff Fisher

era, but maybe Ryan Pace and Sneed are an example of there's only so much you can do if the vision of your head coach and your head coach is holding the organization back. Because I think everyone who defended Ryan Pace to me a year ago saying what could he do here with John Fox, it really isn't fair if you kind of look at the personnel that he's actually put together. It's good. They were right. And he was able to change on the fly, just like Sneed changed on the fly once he got a good point. My problem with body of work, like it certainly is a factor for your Because he's been there since 2012 and they were pretty mediocre.

Right, but less need should get points for evolving and changing the way the GMs, you would want your GM to. He's a riser. He's a riser. I just wonder how much of the credit should be going to McVeigh. Also fair. By the way, Ryan Pace dead last on Greg's rankings last year. So let's get into some risers because I'm sure Pace has to be rising. Well, he'll be the biggest one, yeah.

For you at least, Greg. Really? The biggest riser? I mean, I guess on paper. but to me, Chris Ballard is clearly the biggest riser over the last calendar year. What's your favorite type of rock? I didn't even rank him because... And I would put John Dorsey right there with him.

To me, those two guys are joining, they're ready to join the upper tier. I think that's absolutely fair. Ballard, I left off that list because a year ago, because he didn't, you know, he had one year a body, you know, he hadn't even gotten to his second draft at that point. If you think about what he inherited, they can't protect luck with that offensive line. They can't run the ball. they haven't had a hundred-yard rusher in five years. They have no back bone on defense.

This is an undisciplined soft team with nothing in the trenches. And they are 180, 180 degrees opposite of that. And on top of that, the Josh McDaniels situation, the way he handled that, the having to answer nebulous questions about Andrew Luck when your ownership is steering people in weird directions on that and just never any drama. Ballard might vault very high on this list.

And Dorsey, I think will be even higher. And the reason is Ballard gets a little bit of a boost, and it's not his fault, because he's only been in the league two years, and those two years have been fantastic. So you look back at Colin Kaepernick's career or many players throughout NFL history, where through two, three years, they were on a trajectory to be great. But I think general managers, over time, you've got to give the experience and, you know, doing it year after year after year as a bonus. And now I look back at the Chiefs time in John Dorsey and it's like you kind of got to give John Dorsey maybe a little more credit than I was a year ago for what he did with the Chiefs.

Give him credit for maneuvering up to draft Patrick Mahomes for the Chief before he left for the Brown. So like Ballard to me isn't going to get in that top five because he's only had two years, even though those last two years have been as good as anyone. You can argue that Dorsey made the two best front office moves. Dorsey, of course, is now the Cleveland Browns General Man. and he used to be with the Kansas City Chiefs.

All right. Ryan Pace, of course, Chicago Bears. He wears the same khakis pretty much every day and a nice brown sweatswear. They all white gym shoes. Chris Ballard of the Indianapolis Colts. But Dorsey in moving up and making the power play to get Mahomes and then the recent trade of O'Dell Beckham are probably the two best moves any general manager has made in the last three years. He's a cowboy.

Dorsi walked into a great situation and I think that a lot of people, about a year ago at this time, simply refusing to believe that John Dorsey, the experience of John Dorsey, too, the baseball hat, the sweatshirt, like, in theory, an anti-analytics guy, which he's, he's not, they still have Paul, or they still have DiPedesta in their, in their building working with them, and they are listening to his, but point being, you look back at Sashi Brown's drafts, and Sashi Brown was awesome at setting the table for what came next, but his drafts, and the football people in the building at that time, produced very little outside of Miles Garrett, which anyone, One of us could have made the number one pick logically.

John Dorsey has brought in way more talent in a short amount of time. His first draft was okay. It wasn't a Duke Johnson, Agba. I would say it was a B. It was an average draft, and the second one was kind of a disaster. Duke Johnson was Ray Farmer. Let me lay a comparison on you here. Lyndon Baines Johnson, who historians feel is underrated compared to how the general public feels about him.

Let me just jump in. Former President of the United States. He became president with John F. Kennedy. He was assassinated in 1963, got elected again after that. And by the way, you're not getting any LB. Can I finish my? No, let us finish. Never.

Go ahead. So the number one job of the chief executive is to pass legislation. Lyndon Baines Johnson had the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, the Revenue Act, the War on Poverty. This is getting, your job is to get things done. John Dorsey gets things done. He doesn't build huge portfolios of draft picks, and he doesn't really have. He got left all that cap space, but he converted all of it into blue chip talent.

That's your job. So Sashi in this case is JFK. Yes. Well, I have some issues with all of that. I don't, like John Dorsey doesn't have like ballooning the Vietnam War into an international crisis on his resume. But other than that, yes, he did, LBJ moved a lot of things along. Where is Sashi these days, by the way?

Sashi. That's a great question. I mean, he, maybe he slipped back into the law field. I don't know. All right, any other risers before we move to the Fallers? Any other risers going once, going twice? Hold on. I might at least, well, John Robinson was pretty high a year ago.

How about Tom Telesco? I like Tom Toledo. Yeah, he's continuing to move up. And Tom Telesco, I think, quietly has done a really good job building up that roster. And they've done it the right way where they've really done it through the draft. And you can see the culmination of all the years that they've done on their roster. We forgot two guys that we should put in the new category. Okay.

Mike Mayock, of course. Of course. And Eric Dacosta of the Ravens taking over for Ozzy Newsom. After what was a 25-year internship. Yeah, it's an interesting situation because DeCosta's been very big in that organization for a long time. And the longer this goes on, the more I realize, Ozzie Newsom is still kind of, he might not be the GM.

He works for them. He's in the decontas. He was at the owner's meetings. He's at every league function. He's there at their office. So he's absolutely working, and they worked something out that, you know, he's maybe not working as hard as he used to. He's not in the top chair.

But they're still like a partnership. They've just changed roles, which is a credit to them. All right. Who's falling? I think Steve. Dave Gettelman. Yeah. Yes.

Dave Gettelman. That's one where I struggle with body of work when you have moved into what feels like painful team PR mouthpiece. amidst like a rash of beguiling moves that leaves your fan base off the side of the road. And when I, when I ranked him this high, I got some pushback from Carolina people that thought Gettelman was getting too much credit.

What did you have them last year? He was 13th. And that he ultimately inherited all the best players on the Panthers, which is accurate. You know, they had the core of players there when Gettelman got there. and definitely his time with the Giants hasn't helped him. I got some more fallers.

So you're another one. John Lynch, to me, it would be fair to rank him number 32 right now. Yeah, I don't even think he got ranked last year. 49ers, gentlemen. He will be at the bottom, near the bottom of the list. I think a classic faller on and off the field over the last year, since you've done this, is Cardinals' GM, Steve Kime. Yeah, he's the one that struck me as a...

What is he doing well right now? As a big-time faller. And here's why, because when you change coaches and everything completely falls apart, to me that, like, that's the sign of a great GM is one that can win and do. I gave Dimitrov a lot of credit for having two good eras, too good with different coaches

that I don't think of as, like, the best coach in the league. Kime's kind of the opposite. He lost his coach and he fell apart. I'm quite surprised still, and good for him. He's a man with the family and all that, but that he retained his job after the free fall of last season and the way Josh Rosen played and internally they obviously did not love him

on top of the DUI, which was bad. I'll throw it out, got to do it, love doing it. John L. Way. He was on my list too. You had him ranked seventh last year, Greg, which I would have said was high last year. This year I think he should definitely be in the 20s, perhaps, because I don't think he's done much of anything positive in recent years.

Obviously, he drafted Bradley Chubb last year, but that was kind of a no-brainer, and they fell to him, so I don't give him a lot of credit for that. I was giving him credit for all those 12-win seasons and a championship. I get that. He has its strength. He doesn't draft well. He hasn't been able to fix the quarterback.

He hasn't been able to fix the offensive line. He has demonstrated that he can absolutely woo free agents. At the time, he had been in charge of, you know, probably the third most successful NFL franchise throughout the decade, and so I was giving him some credit for that. But I agree, he was too high. No, he was way too high. How about Bruce Allen?

Well, he can't fall too far. I think he was second to last, and he still might fall. So I think you're out to something. I think that Dave Caldwell and Jacksonville has, he's been a part of drafts that have brought a lot of talent to the Jaguars, so I don't think that he lacks skills. But I'm concerned about any of these GMs that seem to be in a place where they're in a power vacuum,

where they've got all these people around them that have way more power than them, and what is Dave Caldwell's say at this point inside that organization? got one for you guys we did risers we did fallers and feel free to jump in with more fallers or even risers but i got the dalton line okay dalton scale for new listeners is a concept we came up with where andy dalton well west completely came up with it is the prime meridian of quarterbacks he is right in the middle if you if your quarterback's worse than any dalton you need a franchise quarterback and if your GM is worse than this guy you need a new GM, if he's better than him, you're probably in decent shape in your front office.

Jerry Jones. I actually had this one bolded, and this is going to be kind of inside football, but I think their VP of personnel, Will McLeigh, it might be their acting general manager. He gets a lot of credit from people who follow that team as their personnel guy, and I think the Cowboys have actually built a pretty good roster. I would not put him as the Dalton line, Dan, and I don't know who to give credit to. Maybe it's Mr. Will, you know,

not familiar with his work. Or Stephen Jones is certainly very active. I actually think as a player procurement and drafts and everything, he's been better than average for sure. They've had some shortcomings. So is Andy Dogg. Hmm. But Jerry Jones, like...

What if Duke Tobin of the Bengals is the Dalton's game? Are you separating the Jerry Jones that also, like, annually turns the Cowboys into the biggest, biggest marketing sensation in sports? Yes. Yes. This is a player person. But I think that his GMs are been really good over the decade. But they are. I don't think they're Jerry Jones' drafts the way that they were in 2005.

To Wes's point, but it's Stephen Jones, too. Like, they talked about over the last half decade that they, a lot of that has been handed off to others inside the Cowboys. He is, his title is general manager. Oh, wait. We've got an announcement I'm willing to maybe put Mr. Will's name on the GM list Maybe a slash with Steve does

And then another bigger one I'm seeing Mickey Loomis is here Number 11 last year That he is going to be He might be totally replaced But he's going to get a slash Jeff Ireland Slash Sean Payton Maybe Loomis is just totally off the list

And it's how mine goes Loomis Ireland Peyton Because at this point I don't know So I just I wanted to just point them Just for bookkeeping purposes and just as you put together your piece. So it's a bit of a slippery slope, a little bit of a Pandora's box. Once you start, like, divvying out who's making the decisions, you might have to do it for almost every team.

No, I don't think there's that many. You're right. There's a few. But Loomis is a particularly, as Mark loves to point out, you know, he's usually on some, you know, sales call for season tickets of the New Orleans Pelicans. I don't know how much we can. Figurehead. But then Jeff Ireland has to.

to be a riser because his stock could not have been lower in a certain. And Jeff Ireland and Sean Payton, you do get the, I think talking to people, you do get the sense Sean Payton has more power than most, or almost any head coach. So I think Ireland and Peyton are the ones really running that franchise. I guess I just mean for the purposes of both this conversation and your article, when you start saying that Jeff Ireland is soaring up the GM power rankings when he is not in fact the GM, it just gets a little, like, foggy. But what do you do with teams who just.

Use the position. Should I go, I'm willing to. And we know they're lying to us. How about Loomis? Not do the segment. I don't know. Well, there is no official GM. I believe Loomis has a better title than that.

He's like team president and consigliary and, you know, executive vice president and GM. How about Loomis slash Peyton then? And Ireland's not even on there? I don't know. You're going to have to do this with, I think there's like eight starting to make my head. There's like eight teams you have to do this with. The Patriots being one, Nick Cisario.

But every team, there are obviously. top-of-the-line guys for every organization, but it's a collaborative effort for every team, I guess was the point I was making. Right, that's true, because it does open it up, because John Gruden would have to get on there with the Raiders. There's no way that Mayak has more power. Jeff Ireland is the win beneath the wings of Mickey Loomis.

I like that. Jeff Ireland. It's a different article. Greg can use that article. The win beneath the wings rankings. He's had a very Rick Spielman-like comeback. So Rick Spielman's the GM of the Vikings who left Miami. I think he's on his third.

team left Miami in ridicule in the mid-2000s. I mean, Dolphins fans chased them out of town. They thought he was a joke, and he's had a great run in Minnesota. Jeff Ireland similarly run out of town in Miami as a joke, and now is doing great with New Orleans. So that kind of makes you wonder what's the real problem in Miami? Well, it's a lesson in scapegoating, because it's like you're either scapegoating the coach or the GM.

It has to be, it can't be one of these wind beneath the wind. Wings guys that no one's heard of. It's got to be someone who's been lashed in the press for going on months. Spielman has built a good roster for the last half decade. That's true. For new listeners, Win Beneath the Wings, a very popular 1980s song by Bet Midler made famous in the movie Beaches, also starring Barbara Hershey. Greg, you may upload some information into your central processor unit? That was good.

There's a lot of info. Wings. Mom was a big fan. I was about 9 or 10 at the time. Yeah, my mom, I think, had that soundtrack, as I recall. Oh, yeah. My mom also was a big fan. All right.

Mine, too. No, it's just like, okay, who, I mean. Did you just roll your eyes? Mark is already doing chores in his mind. Well, this is one of them. I am not. Yeah, he can. I am not.

All right, good. Do can you find, Ricky, to play out today's show, we can't play the actual wind beneath my wing song, but a similar equivalent in our library. I can try. All right. Let's break down the schedule again two weeks out from the draft. So next week, you'll get another show on Monday and Thursday morning, because then we are on the road. We're heading south for the Chris Wesleying Bachelor party. hope to have Connie on one of the shows next week

and we will do one of our favorite segments you're the GM makes its return next week so tune in for that and Twitter show Wednesday 1030 Pacific 130 Eastern maybe 530 in London and then next the week after that is draft week and we're back three shows and a Twitter show

a lot of content so good stuff this is Dan Hansa signing off for Quiet Storm Listen to that. Oh, it's beautiful. The mailman, the old boss, and Ricky Hollywood behind the glass. Till Monday.

I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more.

Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand.

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