NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Gregg vs. Quarterback Tiers

Episode Date: August 11, 2025

Gregg Rosenthal and Jourdan Rodrigue are joined by Mike Sando of The Athletic to discuss his findings in The Athletic's annual QB Tiers survey. First, Gregg and Jourdan react to the latest development in Matthew Stafford's status with the Rams (01:15). Then, Gregg and Mike go back and forth debating which QBs are in the top tier (08:21), second tier (12:46), and third and fourth tier (32:00) of the NFL.  Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Welcome to NFL Daily, where we are a mortal. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the Chris Wesseling podcast. studio, joined by my friend, Jordan Roderick. Hello. She's back. I'm back. We're back in air conditioning. Big week. Yeah, you're going to be traveling around to training camps once again,

but we have you in the studio for a couple of shows this week that I'm excited about. We have Mike Sando, your buddy, works at the athletic, talking about QB tears today, and it gave me the excuse to break out my own QB rankings. I'm getting boxed in a little bit by QB Island. Let's be honest. Coming back next week. There's some breaking news for you. We've booked Steve Weish. It'll be exciting. It's a big get. And I love QB Island. And we'll talk about that exercise when we get to it. But it stopped me kind of from making my own QB ranking. So me and Mike Sando, representing the 50 GMs and coaches and coordinators that he talked to, will have dueling quarterback rankings. But first, yeah, let's talk about Mr. Amour.

That is the big truck. What do you even call it that Matthew Stafford entered at the Rams facility on Monday in lieu of practicing? You can explain it better than I can. Yeah. When you're done getting your holistic treatment and certain therapies inside that thing that we're showing up for our YouTube viewers showing on your screen right now. You can always hitch it up and road trip across the country. Just looks like a camper. Good call. It looks like an airstream.

No, this was brought in for the entire team, I was told. And this is something that, yes, was the timing poor that Matthew Stafford just happened to walk into this trailer for his treatment as practice was starting, as media was coming out to practice on Monday morning, the day that Matthew Stafford, was supposed to throw an individual drills but did not instead walking in

full sight into this you know the timing maybe couldn't have been a little bit altered there but it is what it is he didn't throw Monday like he was supposed to couldn't have been better

for a mortal though yeah good pop for a mortal I don't know why I say that so awkwardly but I don't want to say amoral which this show may be

or immortal which this show definitely is not if you've listened to the death conversations and I have had. Yeah, big death talk.

It's all, it's the one thing we all have in common. Look, this worry I've had, this lingering worry about Matthew Stafford, felt like it got worse on Monday because it came after the good news that he actually had this extensive workout before their preseason game

and then he's supposed to practice on Monday and they just said, Sean McVeigh said that he just wasn't feeling well enough to practice and that they're taking it day by day and that they've discussed what would be the best treatment plan, lots of different plans, that surgery was not one of them that he discussed.

That was really the newsy part. And there's not much more to update, but... Still not throwing. As I said from the start... They have to be getting a little more concerned, the Rams. As I said from the start, to me, personally, the biggest red flag on all of this is that he's not getting that joint practice rep time in.

That is the most important time that is considered by this team for the preseason because they don't play starters in the preseason. That's the most competitive they can get. And they can also get schematically competitive in ways they're not doing in the preseason because they don't want people seeing all their new stuff. So these joint practices

were always the most valuable thing not just for Matthew Stafford, but for the collective of teammates around him. And he didn't get, but routes on air and reps on air and install in OTAs, which he did, which is when he did get time and was throwing. But he hasn't had those competitive reps yet

And yes, you know, I hear it. I see it in the mentions, whatever. Yes, he is way more experienced than needing reps, quote, unquote. But I will remind you guys, in 2022, he missed those practices specifically while managing the elbow injury. And they were a disaster coming out of the game. The chemistry, the timing, there was no chemistry with the receiver that they brought in. And it's a very different situation.

Devante Adams is obviously a plus plus player. But this is a situation that I personally think it's right and fair to be worried about, even though I will say in all my conversations over the past few weeks with team sources, they don't seem worried about his status for week one and beyond. But right now, things look pretty concerning. Things change a little bit too. I think this would be qualified as a setback if they were expecting him to practice. And he didn't.

A couple quick items of news. We mentioned the injury to Landon Dickerson on Sunday Night Show with Nick Shook. that out if you want all the preseason recaps. It's reportedly a meniscus injury, according to Adam Schaefter, but the timeline is unclear. He's seeking more opinions before they decide on how they will treat it. And so we'll have to find out. Another couple of injuries, unfortunately. Alexander Madison, the backup running back for the Dolphins is out for the season with a neck injury. You really hate to hear that. All the best to him. And their backfield's a little thinner now. He was definitely going to

make that team. And then the second rookie cornerback, day three pick for the Ravens was lost for the season due to a knee injury. This one was reportedly a torn Patelotenton and Robert Longerbeam. So they lose a couple of guys in their secondary. I

can't wait to get to this Mike Sando conversation. Let's not wait anymore. Here is us breaking down the quarterbacks deciding what are the ultimate tears. So excited for this next segment of the show. talking QB tears.

Jordan, you may not know this, but no one in the history of the internet had ever ranked quarterbacks before I did with QB index. At least not on a weekly basis. Don't fact check that. Year after year I was doing it, not doing it anymore.

Nobody is doing it better right now before the season in a creative, just all-encompassing way than Mike Sando of the athletic who dropped his quarterback tears on Monday morning, a rare piece of internet content that just everyone waits for and then everyone gets angry at.

He talks to a million people from around the league and you establish what are the quarterback tiers of 2025. I'm going to push back with my own tears here, Mike, but I am looking forward to hearing everything that you learned over this process. Well, I love it. And I'm going to put down, first, thanks for having me here. It's been so long since I've seen you guys on Thursday out at Saints camp, which was great.

But I'm going to have another, I've got my results here, and I'm going to keep a column for yours, Greg. I'm going to put them in there and then we'll just see. See, I love this. Maybe if I have time or afterwards, I'll like, say, you were actually closest to this defensive coordinator or whatever. Oh. Maybe you'll be, I love it. I won't name the name, but I'll just see you'll probably be close to somebody. You know, when I talk to 50 years, I'll be like someone else's.

Yeah, the name of the game today. Greg versus tears. I mean, I picture, you know, John Snow in the epic battle with the broadsword raised against all of the takes from these 50 executives, coaches, GMs, former GMs,

league personnel who have certainly have takes and shared them with you anonymously here for a group of 50 pulled for quarterback tears. Mike, so thrilled to have you today, so thrilled to be instigating this entire thing. I'm very excited to hear more

about your process. about some Greg takes on the tiers. Yeah, like back in the date, you know, when I was doing fantasy, I love a good tier. It had a running back column every year, tiers of heaven. That would do great business. Let's just get into it. Let's start with your tier one, Mike.

And it's Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow tied at the very top of the tier. And then Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Matthew Stafford completing your first tier. What was kind of the most interesting reaction maybe that you heard of those guys getting into your first tier? Well, you know, all of them, the first four, Burrow, Mahomes, Alan and Jackson, you know, were like overwhelming. You know, Burrow and Mahomes unanimous. And then Allen and Jackson, you know, I think they got 47 and 46 votes out of 50 in tier one. So no doubt there. I think Stafford was one beforehand.

You know, when you get, he's highly respected. A lot of people have loved him. But I think when you're getting older and people have kind of been awaiting, when's that decline going to come? Certainly he's had some injury issues even in camp. He hasn't practiced. Now, this was done before that. But, you know, I could have seen people thinking he was a little bit descending, whereas, you know, he's 11 straight years in tier two. And he just sort of barely crossed that line.

But I thought that was kind of a cool thing in this whole thing that I wasn't, you know, before. and I wouldn't have guessed that. Yeah, Mike, it seems like he got some respect from the crowd this year of people that you talk to. I guess I would say what I was surprised about, first of all, is this didn't happen sooner, especially maybe after that 2023 season. I'm more surprised it happened now after I think anyone who watched it. Stafford himself would agree this was largely a pretty down season for him back last year.

And especially near the end of the season, he turned it on like we know he can in the playoffs. So maybe there's some recency. Did he, though? Recency bias a little bit. So, well, I would say this, you know, last year he had 21 votes in Tier 1, which was a high for him as well. So this year he went to 26. Well, I don't talk to the exact same 50 people, right? There's turnover in the list.

So this could just be, hey, I mixed it up a little bit, and he got, you know, five more votes. And so he just, he was just on the other side of the line. Now he moved over. I don't think this is a universal declaration that he's finally. tier one he just you know he just moved across the border uh he was close to the border you know then i think people rightfully have had him as a high tier two quarterback so creaked over to the other side yeah i'm reading i'm reading too much into it go gregg like to me like to me like it would be misleading to say that uh you know lamar jackson just finally you know uh you know cracked top tier no

He overwhelmingly went to the top, whereas I think that Stafford just sort of, you know, moved, he was living near the border and he moved two blocks away. And now he's in a different zip code that's more exclusive, but he's the same guy. That's how I would see it. I just disagree that he is the same guy, though. I don't think he was great last year. I think last year, even the narrative didn't make sense. Everyone's like, he picked it up at the end of the year. Did he?

He was, the weather game in San Francisco wasn't great, was not great against the Jets. that was week 16. No, he played poorly at the end of the year. Playoffs was when he picked it. Right, but he didn't play well in the Eagles game. The Eagles game to me until the very end. In the snow. Was a fiasco, but he had like four turnover worthy place.

I think though they were, he had him on that final drive feeling like, hey, this was really close to happen. That's what everyone remembers, but I remember the season and the weeks before that. So I'm going to debut my first tier, but first I do want to have a quote because you do such a good job reporting this out. I don't want these to get lost. You had a quote from a defensive coordinator that said, I guarantee all your ones for Stafford came from offensive coaches. Offensive coaches kiss this guy's ass all the time, especially guys from that system.

He's really good, though. I would take him over Herbert because he's a better passer with better timing. Yeah, I get all that, and I just love that quote. So I'm going to put up my tier now, and my tier is the same, except it's one name smaller. Stafford is not in there. Spoiler alert, he's not in my tier two either. I think he's coming off of his bad, his worst tier, and I have a smaller tier two.

I had a little different order, Lamar, just because back-to-back years, I think he's been the best player. So why not be number one, Mahomes, Allen, and Burrow, but not a lot of disagreements there. Let's go to your tier two, which is a massive tier. And it starts with Jaden Daniels. It goes to Herbert, Goff, C.J. Stroud, Jalen Hertz, Baker Mayfield, Dak Prescott, Jordan Love, and Brock Purdy. Very interesting where that is where the dividing line. line is. And we'll get into tier three, which starts with Kyler Murray. But Jaden at the very top of

Tier 2, Herbert up next. It's really fascinating. The Gough, you know, Stafford, you know, to think about them too. I had to doing this exercise. C.J. Stroud still getting a lot of love, hurts in the top 10. And then Baker really rising in this exercise. It wraps up with Dak and Jordan. You are loving how high Baker is. I know. I love this. I'm the captain of the Baker brigade, you know. I absolutely love that Baker is getting a little respect after one of the best seasons we've ever, if not the best season we've ever seen him play. Yes, erratic at times, but statistically produced and willed that team to win. I agree with those executives and GMs and coaches that you spoke with on that one, Mike.

I have to also say it seems like a nod of respect and an understanding of the situation around C.J. Stroud that he retained his tier. What did you pick up from talking to people about him specifically? Yeah, I think that people did blame more of what was around him and acknowledge that their receiver injuries. The offensive line obviously was a big issue. Now, he could have handled it better. But I mean, he really, I think last year he had a dozen tier one vote. So he goes down to one tier one vote. I don't think anyone was willing to say he overcame it as well as a tier one guy would. But I think it would, here's one thing about the tiers. I feel like there's like a delay. reaction component to it to where they the voters and you know at worst it's people holding on

their priors but at best it's not overreacting you know it's like hey we saw great stuff from cj trout last year that happened and there were some things this year it did now last year well it doesn't put them in tier one like the whole group didn't he didn't get 50 tier ones and then this year he gets only one that to me that would be all over the place this is like uh this is a reasoned Hey, you know, we're doing this exercise. You know, I'm not calling anyone for this until after the draft. So we're not doing this like in February 1st when everyone's reacting to the season. You get an offseason to kind of think about it and put it in perspective.

And so he, you know, he inched down a little bit, but it wasn't just like a wholesale that selling the stock of C.J. Stroud. I think people could kind of see what happened. Yeah, I completely agree with how some of the respondents felt about him. You had a defensive coordinator that pointed out he can carry a team that he's special because, you know, he could throw from the pocket, he can throw off schedule, he's been good with games on the line. I love tiering that.

And my tiers, I think, love Stroud even more. So this is where we differ a bit. And we can get into a bunch of different players here, but just for comparison, in the end, by the way, Burrow was like such a solid fourth to me. I don't think he quite belongs with the other three, but I didn't want to separate him. He's obviously so excellent.

That's tier one. So for me, I only had four guys. in my tier, too. Because to me, that was where the drop-off was for me, who I would want. I just looked at it, like, who are the best, who I would want this year. I had Justin Herbert 5th, Jaden Daniels next, you know, I just have to see something bad to believe he'll ever do something bad. Dak Prescott, who I just, if he's on the field, I feel comfortable, is a huge

different maker. And then ultimately, I had the same faith in C.J. Stroud that a lot of your respondents did. And I thought there was like a little bit of a drop-off just in my heart, Mike Sando, after that. And so that's where I stopped it right there with Tier 2. Yeah.

The quarterback's Greg already does not like did not make it into Tier 2. What does that mean? No, that's not true. I'm evaluating the moment like what I think is going to be this year. And I was a little surprised how much DAC got dinged

that I was so much higher than consensus on DAC, for instance. But I don't know if anything stands out to you about my superior tiers. Yeah, DAC stands out to me because, you know, we forget that in 2023, I mean, he had a really good season. I think he was very high in MVP voting. Was he like second in MVP voting?

He was high. Yes. I think I saw that when I looked at it, pro football reference. And it was like, you know, but I think there's also a lot of DAC fatigue that, hey, even if he has a good year, you know, at the end, they're going to be one and done in the playoffs, and he's just not going to do it. And so I actually think it's good that you didn't fall more. like I just you know that that fatigue factor sometimes with a guy who doesn't get over the top and just like like how excited are you about Dak Prescott in any one year if you've been covering the league a long time yeah I mean I trust him about the same every year it's not his fault though

that he plays for the Cowboys and I think there's been an element where at times he's helped out by the talent around him and at times he's overcoming some of the shortcomings of the organization and I give him a lot of credit. When I look at those four guys for me personally, I'm like, I could put them in almost any situation, and I think they're really elevating it, whereas the other guys are maybe a little more situation or risk dependent, at least for me. I buy that, too. I think that's not a bad way of thinking. Like, one of the surprises to me was that, you know, Jared Goff moved up and did so well when it would have been really easy to say, oh, guess what, they're losing Ben Johnson, and, you know, he, Sean McVeigh soured on him earlier. I could have seen people that have not given Goff that much credit over the years

having a reason to not give it to him this year. And that didn't happen at all. He got five votes in Tier 1. Yeah. Also, by the way, someone I'm pointing to right now who raised his hand. So, Mike, I do want to say, I love what you dug up quotes-wise about Jared Goff in this tier. Because I wondered when I knew kind of you were working. toward this and this was going to come out. I wondered if there would be some extra context that

people are starting to see with Jared Goff because he is taking more command of the offense. He's doing more at the line of scrimmage than he did with Sean McVeigh. And even with the earlier iterations of Ben Johnson. And Mike, I love this quote that you got from an executive. You will see this year if it is the quarterback or if it is the coordinator or the quarterback, but I think it has been more the quarterback than advertised. And I love that you're getting that nuance now as he's matured as Jared Goff has matured through his career because you could very much see that last year yeah yeah yeah I thought you know I'm also curious to see what happens there you know have the lions peaked in some way it could be it could be a little harder

for him but I agree like when I was looking up not that we go with who has the most touchdown pass he has the most touchdown passes in the league the last three years right and that's like if I'd asked you that would you have guessed golf you know I don't know maybe and you have You have a couple of respondents who believe that, like, look, he is the top of the top. Yeah. That he should be in level one, like you mentioned. And I think one of the notes that I agree with that Goff and Burrow, one of your head coaches said are best at anticipation. And from a pure quarterback standpoint, and that is why he went number one overall.

I do think, like, the comparisons to Joe Montana, like, if you were the very best of Jared Goff, like, I can see that. the reason I had him in the third tier was, is that going to work in every system? Maybe that's an unfair way to rank them. You had them eighth. Ultimately, it wasn't too different. Let's just put up my third tier, which is where I went really big.

I could even call this 2.5 because by the way that you, you know, evaluate tiers, I think it'd be more 2.5, like in terms of the way. Oh, he's changing the tiers of that style. Because you have certain evaluation. This is my third tier, but the way that you said that he's lifting a team or not, this is where I went, Hertz, Gough,

So that's 9-10, 11 for Stafford, Brock Purdy, this is where I get Gino in, ahead of Baker, Drake May, who I feel very strongly about this year, Tuatunga Viloa, Kyler, and Trevor Lawrence are all one big tier for me. And this is really based on, I actually didn't think Goff and Stafford

had as good 20-24s as they didn't in 20-23. And, you know, Goff didn't have a great playoff game either with turnover worthy plays against the commanders. Everyone kind of, you know, forgets about that. But ultimately, these are guys who are like top 10 type of quarterbacks. I just don't know if they're like changing every single roster that they're on. Stafford to me was more of like a he's up some weeks.

He's down some weeks. Mike, I have a Kyler question for you. But first, if you'll just pardon me for just one moment, you are freaking crazy to not at minimum have Matthew Stafford at tier two, at minimum. You putting him in tier two and a half, I just cannot. I cannot believe you've just done that. Okay, Mike, so Kyler, what were, what was surprising or maybe not surprising that you heard when you were digging up a little bit extra insight about him? He's in, in your tiers.

He is in tier three, is at the very top of tier three. He got mostly tier three votes, one tier four vote, 32 tier three votes, 17 tier two votes, no tier one votes. What did you hear when you were sort of assessing Kyler? Yeah, I would say a number one theme has just been, uh, that he should be better in two-minute, and maybe that comes down to some of those close games. They do or don't win. I thought that was interesting.

I feel like he's been in a little bit of a holding pattern in the last few years because of injuries, and so I don't feel like there's a whole bunch of new, fresh on him. One of the things I looked up, just doing my own research, you know, one of the concepts I do once or twice a year is I look at the quarterback betrayal index, and that's just basically how much are you betrayed or helped by your defense and special team?

And so, like Kyler Murray over the last three years, I believe he's one of 32 quarterbacks with, I don't know, 25 or more starts, something like that. And he's gotten the worst on an EPA per start basis support from defense special teams. And his offensive production during that time of those whatever 32 quarterbacks is like 13th. And I'm not saying that's all because of Kyler. But I think that he's somebody who, you know, their inability to win and maybe some of that two-minute stuff held against him,

maybe rightfully so. But like if he didn't have the 32nd best support defense special teams, maybe he would be one of those guys that has gotten the playoffs one or two more times and, you know, maybe he wins one of those games. So I feel like maybe that as much as anything could help him be perceived, at least as hello too, because he certainly has a talent to be that. Yeah, I think his biggest issue is, is kind of. kind of why I knocked Stafford and did knock him down a little bit.

I saw him in the top 10 or 11, but that you weren't exactly sure what you're getting from a week-to-week basis, which I think happens a lot with older great athletes, like even the best of all time. LeBron is in that stage of his career. And I think Stafford had some duds last year that you weren't used to seen. To me, it was pretty clearly his worst season in about a decade since a couple of real, like, lesser seasons.

There weren't as many big throws. And that's why I have a lot of faith in him. But when I'm comparing him in this tier to a Hertz or a Goff. It was fascinating to think about Goff v. Stafford that they're kind of occupying the same space right now. And then I got to the very end of the tier, which to me includes Gino,

includes Baker, includes Purdy, includes Kyler. And I want to talk a little about Trevor Lawrence. And if any of those guys kind of finish the head of the rest of this tier, I personally wouldn't be that surprised. I think if the situations around them and Kyler, for instance, in the third year of his offense, just gets a little more comfortable,

a little more consistent. he's got a good attitude this year. I'm buying the attitude. Then, like, to me, they're all in roughly the same group where they're providing an advantage, but they're not the top of the top. Yeah, I think it's interesting. And what I liked about some of the intel that you have here, Mike,

is that you have, people have talked a lot about the running threat that Kyler does present some of these quarterbacks that you have included here in Tier 3, similar status, similar benefits to them. They can make plays happen with their legs. They give you an advantage. I also am buying the fact that they're, going to ask Kyler to do more design runs.

When I was at Cardinals camp earlier this summer, I saw a lot of those installs going in. So I do very much buy that. It is interesting. You have another second year player on here who seemed to get a lot of respect from the people that you talk to, your panel of 50.

And that's Bo Nix. And I think coming into the season, that's a little surprised, that maybe would have been a little bit surprising to people, but watching him play last season, I'm sure the things that you heard about him maybe match the tape that you watched, Mike? Absolutely.

Plus, people are optimistic with him in the Sean Payton offense, that it's going to be good going forward. So good situation. He had a top, you know, five-ish defense. But I think that he, you know, showed an ability to kind of make plays, you know, on the move and keep his eyes downfield and threaten the defense. Obviously, he's a pretty good runner, too. I think people just sort of liked what he was all about.

there was really no red flags on him or yeah buts or huge concerns. I think there was a lot of optimism on him. And so when you look at the 2004 quarterback draft class, six in the first round, it was pretty interesting that while Caleb Williams was picked number one overall, obviously Jaden Daniels is number one now of this group. And then it was and then it was Bo Nix. And then Drake May and then Caleb. There's not a lot of separation between Drake May and Caleb.

But I think Bo Nix, there was a lot more optimism now than maybe for some people coming into his rookie season. Let's look at that tier three that you're talking about, that Bo Nix is in. It's Kyler at the top of it. Then it's Aaron Rogers, Tua's down at 17, which I don't think Dolphins fans will love. Trevor Lawrence at 18. Gino, I did like, Gino was at least, I wasn't expecting miracles here, but Gino at least was ahead of Bo Nix and Darnold. and then the really young guys, Drake May and Caleb Williams. Staying in this tier for a minute, I couldn't help.

I did some scouting on you, Mike, come up with some APO research. A couple years ago in this very QB tiers, I mean, these geniuses had Lamar Jackson and Trevor Lawrence, all but tied as the seventh and eighth best quarterbacks in the league. They also had Deshaun Watson in the same tier as those two guys coming off. one of the worst seasons I've ever seen. It was a half a season for the Browns, but to me it was pretty obvious. So I think that speaks to your point

that maybe they're a little late sometimes to adjust. But at that point, man, they had Trevor up there with Lamar, which even at the time, I think, was completely insane. There was never a point where I think those two guys should have looked at the same. But there is a little fatigue,

I believe, with Trevor Lawrence right now. For him to be down below Aaron Rodger, I don't think that's true personally. But he's around the same ranking in my tiers as well like what did you hear about about Trevor Lawrence yeah well I think there's definite questions about him and just just consistent accuracy and another thing that came through for somebody who was so heralded coming out like what's his special trait what's Trevor Lawrence great at is there anything and I think that's a tough question to answer it's all things

you want him to be great at because of how he's built that's the thing he's so big and athletic seeming that you're almost like projecting what you want him to be versus him actually showing up and doing that thing. And Scouts, Mike, you know, Greg, you know, scouts fall into this so often when evaluating prospects coming up in the draft is projecting your want onto somebody who looks the part versus actually thinking they can fit in and do this.

Now, the situational things with the organization have not been his fault. They've been a disaster in some cases. But I really think it's interesting. You talked to a former GM who said, he hasn't proved that he can take the team up a level or make the team play. better than they are. I definitely think

Liam Cohen can help him if he is able to be helped. I mean, that said so much to me. Yeah, it's like Liam Cohen, there's more hope for Liam Cohn than there is for Trevor Lawrence by that quote. It's crazy. Now, when you go back, yeah, when you go back and take snapshots from the past,

I will say in defense of some of the voters, like Lomar a couple years ago was coming off injuries and there were questions about them and all of that. And Trevor Lawrence had a good year, you know, so So I think there was, you know, there was greater hope for Trevor Lawrence at one point. And I was disappointed last year, not just in him. I know he was hurt.

But I just felt like, you know, Doug Peterson wasn't really bringing a lot to this either. So that's where maybe some of the hope with the fresh start with Liam Cohen, who's, you know, obviously isn't overly proven at this stage. But there's some optimism there that maybe they can be a little bit more enterprising overall. I think that's right, but I also think even though Trevor was coming off a good year, like there was always a little bit of extra projection on him because of who he was coming out. And the accuracy that I love your respondents mentioned has never been there for me. And to me, that's such a basic thing. But he's always just missed way more throws than you expected.

Then again, that knock of like, what is his elite trait? They gave that to Gino too. They're like, he's pretty good at everything. Nothing stands out as elite. There's not one X-Man power where you're like, F it, this guy. Um, how about like-O research on Greg, by the way, big Gino guy. I mean, how about when the entire Seattle offensive line is collapsing and he's throwing a dime with anticipation that you don't even see coming.

If nothing else to me, he pops. If you want to knock him, it's there's some ups and downs where he's a little too aggressive. We are. We are. We know, I kind of like it. I feel like, you know, too, know, some of that is, you know, we love the story. I mean, we love the story of Gino, but, uh, shoot, C-Smith. Seattle gave up on him.

Now, I know they have a new regime, and it wasn't Pete, you know, Pete Carroll not there anymore, but I feel like Gino, the last couple years, maybe a year ago should have been higher than, he's like a 3.0. He's like a 3 all the way. And I feel like, like in a game, all-s-equal or go with the guys, I guess go with the guys ahead of him. How many of the guys ahead of him in tears would you rather have Gino? Let's just say, for in a close game in the fourth quarter,

I'd take him over Trevor Lawrence right now. I'd take him over Tua. I'd take him over Rogers. I'd take him over Roger. I'd take him over Kyler. Yeah. I would take him at the very top of this tier. Yeah.

Yes. Jordan. Jordan's with me. Yeah, I kind of like that too. I would have no problem with him being a little bit higher than that. Welcome to the good side, Mike. Yeah. I know you're not the one voting.

You're not held responsible. I do want to point out, as I often do, my own progress here. You know, the fact that I've got Baker and Gino right next to each other. Gino was that, but like, Baker's right there in the top 15. Brock Purdy, I think,'s gotten better. He fell in your tiers. To me, he improved last year. And I think he deserves to be in that tier too.

Let's put up, let's put up my next tier as well. But to me, Purdy actually, I thought, kind of cemented himself as a real guy that's going to be around for a long time. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from Scouting Reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters.

Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. you're a diehard fan or just love

understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin, and this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that?

Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. I'm Marcus Grant, and I'm Michael F. Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season?

Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL, visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. So I just gave you that long tier that included Purdy, but let's go to my third tier, Eric. The last one was 2.5. This is Mike Sandoz tier 4 to the listeners and watchers. Greg has changed the tiers to symptoms.

You have a 2.5. 2.5 is totally screwing me up here. Now I've got to put decimal points in the column. Well, I was trying. He's taking no. All right. For me, it's three and four. but I was, you know, you had these evaluations like this kind of quarterback is going to help certain weeks.

I wanted to separate it. To me, tiers are naturally wherever you put them, wherever you think there's a drop off. And I did think there's a little bit of a drop-up. I want to see it again from Bo Nix. Have them ahead of Caleb, Bryce, and Pennix are your tier threes? Yes, Bo, Caleb, Bryce, and Pennix. And they're kind of just like a tier of, you know, I expect them to move up to that 2.5 or what is really the three. But I just need to see a little more, a little more sample size.

Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, that's fine. The one area in the tiers where it's a little difficult sometimes is that for me, Tier 4 is like either, you know, Russell Wilson-ish where you're kind of, maybe he's not the full season starter anymore, but it's also JJ McCarthy because you don't have enough info. So some of those things get a little bit skewed, you know. Gotcha, that's fine. All right.

And then Rogers is the craziest one to me. Put up my tier 4, by the way. We'll do it back to back. Oh, he has a tier 4. It's not a 3.75. Oh, yeah. We keep going. I've got Darnold here, which is a right.

the same ranking where you had them, but a tier below because I don't think he has as much long-term promise as those young guys we just mentioned. And then to me, it's Rogers. It's J.J. McCarthy just because we haven't seen it. Justin Fields, Kirk Cousins, Anthony Richardson. I don't think you want to be going into your season with these guys as your starters. If anything, I'm giving Rogers too much love. I couldn't believe that he was still 16th last year. And I get the reputation and all, but he's 41, 42 years old, Mike. What did you hear about Rogers? A guy who really hasn't had a Rogers-like season in three years. He had a bad year with the Packers,

then he gets hurt, and then an even worse year with the Jets to me. The tape to me just didn't support that sort of tier. No, he got votes in four tiers, so let's just face it. Nobody knows what, you know, I think there's a lot of... Someone put him at the very top. That's crazy.

One person put him in tier one, six, put him in tier four. So, you know, there's a lot of respect that he's earned, you know, over the years. And no one really is signing up to want to play him because you know, and any one day he could, he's a pain. But I think that, you know, his combination of it, the age,

coming off the injury, which is a two-way, two-edged sword here, because it's bad to be coming off an injury, but he's a year removed from it, so he could be a little bit better with his movement. There's some people banking on that a little bit. But then he reports in June. He has no history with Arthur Smith, the offensive coordinator,

questionable cast of receivers in terms of the rapport with him. D.K. Metcalf is certainly talented, but also emotional and how's that going to go, you know, when Rogers gives him the brush off or gives him the icy stare or gives him the palms up, like when he throws it to the place like he wants him to be and he's, and D.K.'s running the other way. And like even Aaron knew he was going to go the other way, but still throw it where he's supposed to be. You know, that's the type of stuff that I just wonder how it's going to go over the course of a season. And by the way, now cold weather, tough division late in the year.

What's he going to be at age 41? I think it's all fair. Yeah, Greg putting Sam Darnold after the season he had in the upside, along with a declining Aaron Rogers in the same tier as nasty work, by the way. But I will say that it's, I love this quote that you got about Rogers. I think this says everything. And frankly, Greg, it says a lot about why he should be still grouped in with players who are ascending in their career right now, which is too slow to consistently win with his legs. yet his mind and hard count will have your disguise broken and your D-line in the neutral zone multiple times per game.

There are these little mental micro advantages that having a guy who has just, first of all, seen that much football, who has played that much football, who knows all of the little technical tricks and all the little things that can get your defense feeling unsettled and a little bit rattled and maybe is not going to be able to trust his legs and to throw on the move as much. Maybe they're going to play action him more, which he hates to do, but maybe we'll see that a little bit more. So he's in those natural boots versus the out of structure work that we've seen him create

with before. But this is so interesting to me that they're sort of understanding this is kind of it where he's at physically, but he still has these little things that will give you edges and advantages at the fact. Ahead of Tua is nasty business. I mean, when Tua is on the field, he's a pretty big difference maker. maybe the most accurate, you know, quarterback in the NFL.

Like no other offense falls apart quite like the Dolphins when he's not on the field. So I do feel like Tua got a little underrated here. We got to wrap it up soon, but we'll just fly up our final tiers. My last tier, tier five, just kind of the rest of the guys essentially. Russell Wilson, Spencer Rattler, Daniel Jones, Joe Flacco.

I kind of forgot about Kenny Pickett. You voted him in there. You know, he wouldn't even make that tier for me. And then your final. tier is a little bigger. It has Russ. It has, you know, Justin Fields, Penn X, McCarthy, Daniel Jones, Joe Flacco, Anthony Richardson

and Radler. So just the guys at the end. So where did you have Anthony Richardson? Where did you put him? He was that tier at the back end of the tier higher just because I just have a little hope. He was at the back end of the Sam Darnold Rogers Field Richardson

tier. Just look at this tier for a second. This is a wild group. This is the all over the place. This is so. One guy's never played. This is so chaotic. One guy's never played. JJ McCarthy. You guys are like three, four thousand yard passers that are linting around to half the time last couple years.

I think if Kirk Cousins played this year, I would give him a little more pop of the now he's a year removed from injury and actually had some piece in film last year. Rogers and Richardson in the same one. When Richardson is like the first play. You broke his brain. Like in the preseason, how about how about the lack of recognition by Richardson just gets earhold on a totally. basic hot. It's probably a fair point. And now Rogers is in the same bucket.

Rogers would have seen that like, you know, in his sleep, hopefully at the stage of his career. But yeah, these things get hard. Well, this is why I won in this tier battle, Fando, is because I added chaos to the mix that broke your brain. I was trying to be, you know, an agent of chaos. That's why I put Stafford and Gough right next to each other just to make all the Rams and Lions fans mad at each other, Tua and Trevor. All of that. Off the top, I said you were going to align with one of my voters, but now you're

in front of tears. I don't, I think we lost it. All right, before we let you go, what was the biggest, I know, like, you might be surprised about what the votes come in, but what's the most you know, surprising reaction from fans? Like, in terms of where they, like, you, you didn't

see that coming. Jalen Hertz, way too low, according to not just Eagle fans, but some of the people in media, even that I've had conversations with so far today. Yeah. I just didn't see that coming. I think I understand. I think the voters understand good player, but he's got a ton of great stuff around him. They took the ball out of his hands to run it with Berkeley because that's in their best interest. And I get the feeling that if he

was on a league average team, he'd probably be a little bit lower in this, not higher. I don't think he would necessarily carry them in that way. So I'm fine with where he's at, top 10. He's won a Super Bowl, you know, been to a couple of them. I didn't find this disrespectful, but some people were like he should be in tier one. Mike, have you over the years grown accustomed to bearing the burden of outrage on behalf of protecting all of your voters every single year? Well, to some degree, the biggest relief in this thing for me, the battle that I was hated fighting was when Lamar would be at the top of tier two.

And he's like an MVP and you'd have to get into the nuances of what people are saying. I think now the last couple years where his production has not only been so good, but clearly he has not been what's holding them back in the playoffs. And I think that that was the hard thing earlier because there's always been a feeling in the league with evidence that the guys who rely on their legs and are inconsistent passers die in the playoffs. And that's kind of had happened to Lamar. And so the fact that I think he's broken through that, that's great.

Because for a couple of years there, it's like, okay, Mike, great job in the tiers. Now, Lamar Jackson's not in tier one. I have to explain that for half the show. I'm done doing that. It's still stupid, though. He's behind Burrow. Who are these three or four guys that aren't putting Jackson and Josh Allen, for what it's worth, in tier one?

There are people who think who still are against too much reliance on the legs, and that's what it is. It's stupid. But clearly, to me, Josh Shannon and Lamar Jackson are passing well enough now that we don't need to have that discussion. There are two most efficient passers. in the NFL. Like, that's the thing that breaks my brain is there's no world to me where Joe Burroughs played better than those two. But when you have to pass the ball and they know you're going

to pass the ball, it's different than when they're all gearing up to stop the run. That's a fact. And Lamar has done better than that with that. Get it, get a man who can do both. I know. Mike Sandow can do it all. I just said, we won't make you talk about it. And yet we made you made you sign to talk about it. It was, it was great. I don't have to anymore. He's traumatized. You're done. You're done for the year. We should do this every year. This was a lot of fun. And I hadn't, you got me out of the cave and got to do some rankings, which I hadn't done in a while for quarterback. So I appreciate you, Mike. Everyone check out Mike Sando at the athletic. Look, he doesn't just pop up once a year for quarterback tears. He's writing weekly. I check out your column every Monday morning. Mike Sando. My first things I read on Monday morning is Mike Sando and does a lot of other great work at the athletic. Appreciate you, Mike. Thank you. Love it.

Thanks again to Mike Sando. We wrap up the show. That was, fantastic. I love that so much. With something that I mentioned at the beginning of the show that I don't know if you didn't pick up on or you just didn't want to recognize it. I did call you my friend right at the top of the show. Thank you so much. There was some pre-show conversation of like whether we were just whether we were friends or co-workers, you know. No, when Greg refers to someone else as his only adult friend. I didn't say only. I said one of my only adult friends. I go. Thanks. And he goes, no, no, no.

Well, I was, what I was trying to say there is, like, a friend that you have that's completely outside of work. No, I get it. Like, divorced from work. I get it. I'm in a different tier. No, it's just like, we are friends, but, you know, this is outside of work. That's different. But no, you are a friend.

We are friends. You are the ranking. You are my friend. I am a human. You are my friend. Emotions. Ernest Gregg has left. the building. No, I'm feeling very earnest. Chris and Eric, you're my friends too. You're doing a great job

every day. Chris Bobona and Eric Roberts on the ones and two. Do you notice how Greg only says this on the air when we're recording? Like, I never see him tell you guys this when we're all just, just us, no mics or anything like that. Well, yeah, don't say anything important, not into a mic. Yeah. That part of like barely matters. This is when we're really alive. Well, I say it if nobody can hear it. That is a theme that we're going to continue on our next show. I'm really looking forward to I Can Fix Him. 2000 and 25. That's going to be our next NFL daily show. You will hear in the feed 40s and free agents, Daniel Jeremiah and I talking about some of the offseason acquisitions. You have something to say? Our friendship is immortal and that's how you know. Football is back.

I scared the shit of you. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet.

We've got the insight to help you crunch. your opponents listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Toyota the official automotive partner of the NFL visit toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more this is an iHeart podcast