NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Hall of Fame Weekend & Seth Payne on the State of the Texans

Episode Date: August 9, 2021

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal bring you all of the latest news in the NFL including Saquon Barkley practicing with the NY Giants (10:27) and Josh Allen's new contract (14:01). The Dolphins restructured Xavien Howard's contract (19:17) and the heroes hit some 8 o'clock delight (22:10). Nick Shook joins the show to recap the HOF game and Peyton Mannings speech (27:24) and Seth Payne joins the show to talk Deshaun Watson and the state of the Texans (45:08). Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast has never exchanged sandwiches but would for the right sponsor. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis. I come to you from a virtual room filled with some heroes. Greg Rosenthal.

Mark Sessler. Listen to the people. People got takes. Some people called it the Great Betrayal when Greg skipped out of the show at the end. But I think there's two things, Mark, that people need to keep in mind. Number one, and this is the most important thing. Greg came back. Okay.

I'm not saying it doesn't mean we don't have to break bread anymore, but Greg came back. Number two, there were children involved. and a responsibility, and that's where it gets a little murky. But where do you come down with some time to really think it over 72 hours later, Mark? I mean, I wouldn't say I've really softened my stance from what I spoke about and what you spoke about on the show. I do think that the listeners seem almost to strongly side with Greg's parenting decision here. I've noticed a lot of brushback.

And in general, I think, Dan, we get a lot of, you know, you guys are too hard on Greg. Or you don't stand up to Greg enough. It's like, well, you know, we're in an awkward place. In this case, I think that breaking bread and circling back to discuss this issue might still make sense. I'm not going to soften my stance or move off of where I've attached to on this issue. I did get a note. I haven't, I did want to go back and listen to it. Haven't yet, but I want to.

But I did hear that Mark, that Mark is extra, it was extra salty these days. That was a comment from a friend. And I was like, well, it does make sense for Mark to kind of let any, like, internal thoughts he has about me filter it through this idea while I'm not there feels like on brand, you know. I don't think I was necessarily guiding the ship, though, Dan. I was just, you know, I was seeing where Dan was coming from. Listen, I was, no, I was Dan Rather, boots on the ground in Vietnam just trying to take the listener through it. What, you're saying my priorities are out of whack or something? I mean, this is been a time that we've had all summer.

I think it's a knotty issue. I think there's a lot of ins and outs and what have you is involved here. And it's a tough situation. But I'm glad you came back. I mean, what we need to do is we need to get another driver's license in that house. But I don't know if you want to have that conversation on the podcast. No, I don't. Starting a podcast on time would also help.

That would be good. Like, we're always starting at Hansus o'clock. Um, it's about seven after, you're hitting out. I love it. Seven after the hour. That's all, all that time. That's not me relaxing on the couch. That's me trying to put together the best show.

And sometimes it goes over to tugboat time. And I apologize for that. But anyway, we're still together. People thought that could have been the end. About those sandwich, we that we would exchange for a sandwich endorsement. Apologies to a listener named Doug Chin. Uh, I found. some coupons. He sent us for sandwiches for the 2015 Super Bowl while I was cleaning out my desk

in Culver. We didn't use those. So you gave us a nice gift. I wish we had done it in San Francisco. I think they've expired at this point. I would imagine. It was a really nice thought. It was a great thought. It was a great thought. Very nice. And I was actually in Culver for the first time, our home office in 18, 24 months, whatever it's been. And 18 months. And I picked up our Sharon, AFL, Australian Rules football, and I have it behind me. So all you Aussie listeners out there,

Oz is in the garage right now. That was from our friend, Tristan, one of the earliest loyal fans from Down Under. And I, you know, I went to the office and I was there for, I am not kidding, maybe three and a half minutes, The only things in possession on my desk were of an ancient photo of my children. They looked like they were from years ago and in a notebook of film notes from like 2019.

That's all I took home with me. I would guess that the photos were from years ago. Well, they had to be. They weren't current. But yeah, that's how that works, I guess. All right. It's Monday. The true start of the season for me.

It's not the Hall of Fame game. It's not the Canton. inductions, which, by the way, we're going to dig into a little bit with our Hall of Fame, Pro Football Hall of Fame correspondent. Nick shook. The pipe. He's going to be here. He was boots on the ground, Dan Rather style in Canton this weekend, where they inducted

both the 2020 and the 2021 class. We're going to talk to Nick about what he saw and heard there. But also coming up, Seth Payne. he is boots on the ground in Houston during a very odd time in Texan's history and we're going to get the latest on to Sean Watson and the mess going on down there in Houston. Full show.

But what I was going to say, and I lost the train of thought, and now it's back, is that, no, it's not Canton, it's not the Hall of Fame game. It is the premiere of Hard Knocks tomorrow, Tuesday. That's when the season begins, at least for the old Zuster.

So check that out on Tuesday. And Tuesday nights, my recaps go up. Football is back. Get ready for that. It is now happening. The train is on the tracks and it's going full speed ahead, whether Sessler's on it or not. I'm on it. Like, I have nowhere else to be.

So, I mean, just I'll ride with you. There is a fair amount of anxiety the minute hard knock starts because you're right. The machine is just, it's not stoppable at that point. No, hang on. It is not. Also, not stoppable. The news right now. The fact that I had to go outside in New Orleans from the ages of when I was 10 to 14 in the summer on our front street wearing a sweatshirt filled with pillows up and down my sleeves and my chest so I could catch passes from you when it come in totally bruised and in pain for days after all those times.

is that, if that is not mentioned in your speech and I am not personally thanked for that, I'm going to be a little disappointed. Thought about Chris Wessling, thought about Mark Zessler, and all the other people that don't really like the Manning Brothers sense of humor. I don't think that it was a little bit overrated,

but you know what, I love these goofy dudes. And Eli talking about what it was like growing up with a athlete of Peyton's, pedigree coming up through his teen years. And by the way, doesn't that sound actually really cruel? And I had a little brother, Kevin

Danger Hanses. And yeah, you get a little rough with your brother, but the idea to send him outside and be throwing this projectile at him over and over again, and knowing it could hurt him to the point where you're putting protection underneath his shirt, and he comes back with bruises

and in pain, like, that's pretty hardcore. And it's 95 to 100 degrees and about 70% humidity in the summer there. That should not be overlooked. You don't want to go outside at all, much less to go outside with pillows inside you. That's brother on brother stuff, though. I remember I have a brother Eric. Eric Danger Sessler. Eric Danger Sessler. I'm not sure that's the middle name. But he, when he was young enough to be wearing like footsie pajamas, you know, we'd get up very early in the morning. And I'd fill from his entire pajamas with Legos, like little tiny, sharp Lego pieces, and then walk him upstairs to my parents' bedroom

around 6.30 in the morning with it zipped up to the top and he couldn't move and it hurt because you got sharp Lego pieces. This story makes no, I don't know why I told the story, but brothers do strange things to each other and that seems like a fitting thing for the Manning brothers to do. And I also, by the way, I don't think, I don't like their humor when they're scripted. This stuff that they do, I think they're going to be great doing that little broadcast version of the football games because I think they are good together. They are funny. I don't like the scripted mid-career Peyton Manning business. That to me was nonsensical. They've renamed that broadcast, by the way, on ESPN 2 or whatever.

It is now just called the broadcast that is going to make Steve Levy crazy. I knew it. This is so on your radar. How pissed off are those other ESPN announcers? I'm going to watch them. No one's going to watch them. I get it. But it's like, hey, hey, career achievement.

You got Monday Night Football. Oh, by the way, like, we're going to get a way bigger draw and put you on our other channel. All right. There is a chance. There is a chance that the Manning Brothers broadcast takes off, assuming they don't get overly cute and Rob Riggles in the booth and Anthony Anderson and other Disney agency properties. I mean, assuming that doesn't happen, which is a big assumption and assuming that it's as good as we think it hypothetically could be. And then assuming that the viewing habits of the NFL viewing public is going to want to seek out a secondary broadcast. I think it's still going to be far and away the ESPN telecast gets the most eyeballs and ears. But you're right. I'm by that. There's a siphoning of the audience potentially here. I get that.

Maybe Levy's eagles, ultimately. Maybe he's like, who is it, Richard Deich in the athletic? He's going to be writing like the week one recap about the Manning brothers and just Brian Greasy is somewhere stewing. I don't know what, like if I was in Levy's position, as the lead play-by-play guy for Monday Night Football. I'd be like, that's great with the Manning Brothers. I just, for me, it's about growing the game. And the more people that watch it,

it doesn't matter if they're watching me or listening to me. It's people watching the game because that's what I'm in service of ultimately. That's what I would be like. Yeah, you'd be that selfless. No, you would be, you would have like a bow and air network. Yeah, please, you would have someone completely taken out if they got in your way there. Let's be real. Sequin Barclay's back in practice for the New York Giants.

Thank goodness. This comes off the news late last week, reported by Rapsheet, an NFL network, that Sequin could be out of action till as late as week three of the regular season for the Giants, but also with the window open that he could be there for week one as well. So it's still a fluid situation, but it was reported throughout social media on Monday that Barclay is expected to start practicing this week, and he's going to come off the pup list as early as Monday. I don't know if that's happened.

He's doing individual drills. Okay, great. That's it. So there you go. So Barclay is officially now on the path to get back onto the field. We still don't know his availability for the start of the season. But this feels like Greg is step in the right direction. It is.

But Ian's report late last week that he'll be back by at least week three to me was a bigger story. Because doing some individual drills a month out. is it's a step. I think it was part of the plan, but it's pretty far away from, you know, a full load of work. And the fact that they're already thinking about this a solid month in advance, I, you know, I think raises real questions, as is the fact that Saquan Barclay wants a new contract. And I think that is absolutely part of the equation here. And it gets complicated. I think the giants want to sign him long term. And I think he might want to make sure he's 100% healthy before he hits the field again if he's not taking care of long term?

I mean, he has been, you know, they said he's looked impressive, running, sprinting, cutting. He was leading certain drills. Yes, I mean, it's, you know, the whole reporting around it is suspicious. I don't think the contract thing, that only makes sense. It's kind of a tough, you know, figure to put on, say, come on Barclay to decide what you're signing for and for how long. He's missed 17 games over two seasons. Why does that make sense? Like, why would he have any leverage in a contract negotiation right now? I don't think he has leverage. So what's the point then if he has no leverage?

I don't know if I buy that. The reports are that they've been talking, that the Giants are interested in getting him long term. And you could just imagine, though, he's at this point where he would maybe be a little apprehensive because if he did suffer another injury, you know, then he's in big trouble. I'm just like, if you get the contract beforehand, that would be great. I don't know. You're right.

I don't know if they will. The Giants, do we want to? to do a long-term deal with the running back whose knee just blew up. Sequin, do I want to sign a deal when I'm coming off an injury where it's affecting how I'm viewed in terms of how valuable, I don't know. Might not be the optimal time for him to be pitching his skills. Corey Clement might be, you know, the leader in the clubhouse here for week one touches. It's supposedly the former Super Bowl heroes looked a little better than who is it,

Devante Freeman, who's in there. But these injuries, like them coming back. it's like, okay, they're back on the field, but OBJ is another one. You know, he's not in our news. But there's no reason to be concerned about OBJ, but he's not fully practicing. Just because he's looked great in all these Instagram videos, it's like they're taking it slowly. He's going every other day. It's not 11 on 11.

Like, there are steps in this. Like, I think you can wonder if OBJ will be at full complement of snaps week one. Like, just because they're on the field, I guess, to me, is not an idea that they're going to really be all the way back. all right in other news let's talk some money we'll start with josh allen this happened last week the bills signed their star quarterback to a six year 258 million dollars extension that includes 150 million guaranteed so he's kind of right in that window patrick mahomes still the top of the mountain as he should be deck prescott who got that huge deal earlier this year so he's right in between those dudes josh allen just 25 years old coming off a season where if aaron

Rogers doesn't go nuts last year. Allen's probably the reigning MVP right now. Mark, this just makes a lot of sense. And it also, for quarterbacks looking for a contract, it continues to shape the market for what a star quarterback is worth and where everyone else falls beneath that. Yeah, I think it's, you know, one thing I really love about football is that, you know, in one year's time, we can feel so different about players. And, you know, I think that Josh Allen was one of the more polarizing prospects at

quarterback that we've ever seen. Certain scouts going absolutely nuts for him. The analytics community essentially were mostly down on him. There were outliers there. But, you know, I think even just football watchers, some people took the early seasons of Josh Allen and thought, this guy obviously is athletically gifted and freaky, but there's just certain things that quarterbacks need to do that he's not able to do. And I think he went and put so much work into his game. And I look at also Sean McDermott and Brandon Bean, the absolute loyalty they showed towards him. It reminds me of the Ravens and Lamar Jackson. He is going to be our quarterback. We're going to make this work. Josh Allen, they have never questioned on any level, despite all the doubters. They built a really

nice offense around him. The contract makes complete and total sense. And kind of looking at how it breaks down, because it does get more complex for the bills who've been so aggressive in their team building after next season, because he makes 10 million this year, he makes 16 million next year. That still gives you a solid, you know, next year window to make moves and, you know, position for the Super Bowl. But then after that, his pay puts you in the position of one of those teams that has, you know, one of the highest paid quarterbacks. It's harder to maneuver. That said, I love it. I love it for Josh Allen.

He's one of the best stories in the league. Good job by the bills. You keep calling out, you know, the doubters of Allen. And I just want you to say my name. I can't get you to do it. Just say. I don't think, I don't think, Greg, that you were like. the only, I think it is more a community of people who were down on. I was aggressive about it on this

show. Well, I mean, if I call you out about something that you've, you know, been faulty on, you could turn around and name probably 70 or 80 on me. And I know the way you operate is you probably have like a written down list of things. You have to, Greg, there has to be, listen, listen, let me be, let me be the guy just kind of in between here. If we've reached a stage where Mark's afraid to criticize you because you're going to come back at it, maybe we just need to reevaluate some things about the relationships here. Like we need to have that dinner, that's what we're talking about. I mean, I'm going to be wrong a million times, and I'm going to honk when I'm right.

So, look, Josh Allen would have gotten a lot of draft Twitter fired. I don't really consider myself part of draft Twitter. Hey, fuck you, Greg. Thank you, money. Like, I like that feeling. Come at me. I thought Rosen, that was a year where I did go and watch the stuff, and like a lot of people, I liked Rosen better than Josh Allen.

So if draft Twitter was actually running a team and they happened to be up, with the 10th pick, they would have gotten fired because they would have taken Josh Rosen, who I think might see his career end this month. He's losing a Nate Sudfeld

for the number three quarterback spot in 49ers. I don't know if he's going to get another chance. Meanwhile, Lamar's won an MVP and Allen and Baker's going to get his contract and Allen's gotten this money. We couldn't have been more wrong.

Anyone who thought Josh Rosen was better than Josh Allen. I mean, it's such a crap shoot. I remember the year before, or heading into last season at the Combine, someone that's hugely respected in the draft industrial complex saying to us, oh, yeah, the guy to watch out

and stay away from his Herbert. And Justin Herbert was one of the greatest rookies in NFL history quarter. It's such a crapshoot. Donald was taken ahead of Josh Allen. I do think the contract structure is just worth pointing out. I've gotten less into this overtime. But I think it's interesting.

These guys are taking these long deals. And okay, it's basically five for 164 once you break it down, once we got all the details, you know, before the bills could potentially get out of it. So that's like a big commitment. That's essentially guaranteed that he's getting that 164, which is huge. And that's great. That's why Josh Lund would take it. But per year, that's only, you know, 31, 32. Like, he's going to be underpaid sooner than later.

And both he and Mahomes made the decision, we're going to give up leverage, long term, and kind of let the chief. chiefs and bills control our entire careers because we're going to sign such long contracts versus what Kirk Cousins did and Dak Prescott, to a lesser degree, did and take these shorter deals. If you want to make the most amount of money, the cousins and DAC routes actually is the way to go, if you want to make sure you're all good and you're happy with your team and you're going to be happy them kind of controlling your situation for basically your whole career, go the Mahomes-Alan route. It's just two different routes to go. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other.

Other contract news, Xavier and Howard is not going anywhere. The 2020 NFL Interceptions Leader restructured his deal with the Dolphins, adds $3.5 million in incentives and guarantees. Also, the Dolphins waived the nearly $100,000 in fines for skipping minicamp. I thought that was something that can't be done. I don't understand how this stuff works. The mini camp, you can't, the training camp, the training camp, you cannot waive those, Dan, and the mini camps you can.

Okay, that's why he did his little holding by rule. So there you go. Thank you for clarifying that. Anyway, so he gets a little bit of a raise. It makes him happy. And voila, he's back at practice after sitting out the last couple days with an ankle injury. So there you go. Xavier Howard's back.

And also, Darius Leonard, the star linebacker for the cult, signed a five-year $99.25 million extension that takes him through 2026. Over 50 million of that is guaranteed. He's the highest paid off ball linebacker in the league, beating out what Fred Warner just got with the 49ers. He should go Xavier and Howard now, Fred Warner, be like, I'm not playing for the Niners until they egg me richer than him. Anyway, so Leonard gets paid and a huge, huge victory for the entire Colts organization.

I mean, take a second rounder, and then all of a sudden the next contract you give him is a superstar contract. you did something very right in your draft preparation. Well, in that same draft, too, they drafted Braden Smith, who was a right tackle who played guard in college. They moved him to tackle, and they gave him a monster contract two weeks ago. So those are major wins.

It's been a tough month for the Colts, but those are two major wins for them. And Quentin Nelson is next up. They have a lot. All the bills are kind of come and do for how well the Colts have drafted, but those are good problems to have. I get just a reminder that, like, Chris Ballard is a premier GM who has been through so much in a short amount of time. You got the luck retirement.

You have the, you know, hiring Josh McDaniels, then he backs out. You've got what's happened to quarterback since, what's happening this month. The luck injury, too. He missed the whole, you know, there was a whole thing they had to deal with before the retirement even. I mean, it's been like five or six years of quarterback turmoil there, and they continue to be a good team. I mean, what they're dealing with right now, the floor might fall out for this season. We'll see. Howard, by the way, I do want to.

mentioned, like, he, it was kind of like the Aaron Rogers deal. It was cosmetic. They gave him a little incentives. That was nice. They guaranteed a little bit of his money next year. But I mean, he was going to be on the team next year anyways, unless something crazy happens. And they gave him this verbal agreement. That's the thing that is interesting to me, that they'll revisit it, assuming his performance and injury status doesn't fall off. And it's kind of what the Packers did with Rogers. I guess I'm just curious how this like verbal agreement, we're going to revisit thing works out. I haven't seen that. As a player, I'd be careful with that. I'd be careful with that. I feel like that's something they'd very easily a team will walk away from if it

doesn't help them on some level. All right, 8 o'clock the light. The athletic reports that T.J. Watt staging a Holden at training camp until he gets a contract extension. He's turning 27 in October, one of the best defensive linens in the league, Greg. He wants to get paid. The Holden's, they're taken off. This was such a quiet one. Stefan Gilmore on the PUP list also quietly, I think, having his own hold in. So I think some money is going to need to happen for either one of these players to get back on the field. Cornerback, CJ Henderson could be on the move. ESPN reports that multiple team executives believe the Jaguars are shopping the cornerback. He was the ninth overall pick

in the 2020 NFL draft, Mark. Yeah, I just, it's a reminder. I think Urban Meyer clearly has his types of guys, and it's happening with DJ Chark a little bit, too. He didn't like his body the way he was sort of a little too light. I think with this, there is a reporter down there, Eugene Fernette, who basically tweeted that when he was, when Jaguar's coaches last year were exiting town, fired, someone said, watch out for C.J. Anderson off the field. I think there's something else going on here beyond just his talent.

In other Jaguars news, Urban Meyer said, DJ Shark had surgery on what was deemed a minor break in his hand. Come on, Greg, minor breaks in a hand for a wide receiver. No such thing. They say it'll be back week one. I believe that. But when I start reading the camp hype about Laquan Treadwell, looking good, filling in, it's a little, it's a little concerning.

Will Lutz is going to miss the start of the regular season with a groin injury. Tough news in the old kicker club. Go for the comment. 11 Saints that were starters to end last year might not be starters this year. That's a big number. 11. And finally, Lamar Jackson, non-committal on getting the vaccine. after receiving or getting COVID for the second time.

He's not ready yet. He needs to learn more facts. Some of these quarterbacks taking these stances. It's our... Yeah, Cam Newton's another one. Jackson also had significant symptoms for the second time because he talked about how it was pretty brutal first time around and John Harbaugh intimated.

It was pretty brutal this time around too, which is crazy. But he's still learning. He wants to learn more. Who could teach him? Who could possibly teach the man? I don't know. or maybe back to a doctor.

And Kirk Cousins is back also. Did you guys say that? Well, he is. And he actually, um, he ruminated to the assembled media. Hey, maybe I could build a plexiglass.

A little Kirkworld around my body. So I won't get COVID. Maybe he could wear that. He could wear that on the field. He struggles with pressure. Have a nice little plexiglass thing around him. Could you do that on Sundays? That would be.

I don't think that would be allowed, Greg, if you're asking that, seriously. I'm just so, like, exhausted by it all. And I understand here is the obligatory people get to make their own decision. I get it. But don't tell me you're thinking about building plexiglass around your body in the quarterback room. And then also blame the team for the reason I was a close contact was because my quarterback's room was too small. So it's their fault that I got sick. Or just say you don't believe in it.

Stop hiding behind. I need to do more research or that it's personal. It's not personal. This is a public health crisis. It's other people that we are concerned about. It's not ourselves. You're a public figure on a very public, at a public workplace, a football team. All this stuff, all these guys, just be honest.

I don't know why they're not being honest. You get the feeling, you also get the feeling that Mike Zimmer has just lost patience with the whole Kirk Cousins experience. One item, like big plexiglass. Like, what a year it's been for them. I'm not happy for why it's happened. But, like, classrooms all over the country have, like, you know, hundreds of meters of plexiglass being shifted into. Our newsroom.

I mean, you know, Plexiglass probably doing all right all the time. But now they just exploded over the last year. Why did you just slip into the metric system there? What was that about? What? Is this got, oh, you lived in England and you spent time in Australia? Hundreds of them. My English days were my best days.

You were like three. How do you? Why are you? I've also not said any of that. of that. So again, it's just, it's misquotes. It's false narratives. I am, hundreds of meters of plexiglass is something that you could say visually. That works. It's a measurement. Metric. I know, it's just unusual, especially where you were a football podcast, you could easily said yards. It was painful though, watching the Olympics and seeing the American announcers

try to convert the meters in the shot put and stuff like that. I don't know how much Olympics you watch, but it was like, it was a painful exercise. It really made me feel. like let's go America at least. I feel like you'd have like a mathematical graphic that would do that instantly. Why are they having to do that sort of mentally? It's a fair point. It seemed like they were doing it in their head. They're like 64, that's 62 feet.

Ah, well, you know, come on. We can handle meters. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel that

What was my other big takeaway from that? What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more.

What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day.

Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season?

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All right. So that's what's happening in the news. And now, as promised, he is the man, the myth, the legend. He is shaved in the head area. He is very well built physically. He's an Ohio native. So going up Canton, what a ball must have been for the pipe, Nick Shook, who rejoins us on the around the NFL podcast to share his adventure in Canton for a Big Hall fame weekend. What's up, Shookie? You hear that? I do.

Made those noises this morning. Yeah, you do. You're feeling... The clockwork. Brett and that all shook? Because, you know, you're on the show. You're like, hey, I'm the big guy. I'm the strong guy on the show.

Seth Payne's coming on later. Played at 6-4-304 when he was in the NFL. Look, there's enough room for... Maybe he's the biggest guy. Yeah, there's enough room for big guys everywhere. It's okay. I'm never... threatened because when you are a large man, you are confident in the space that you take up in the

space that you must give others. Listen to that. I was a prepared answer. I like that. Shook. All right. So you were boots on the ground there. I'm saying boots on the ground a lot. I'm just going to moratorium on the boots on the ground refs by the old Zeus are in the biggest of all spots on the show for the rest of the podcast. All right. Shook, you were in attendance in Canton. It was a different weekend. Give people like at Cliff's notes of why this was different compared to past Hall of Fame weekends. Well, typically at a Hall of Fame weekend, you got a maximum of eight in Shrinies. But because of COVID cancellation last year, you had a total of 28 this year. You had two classes, and you didn't just have two classes because that number, mental math,

well, why shouldn't that be 16? Well, last year they had the biggest class ever known as the Centennial class to mark the NFL's 100 year anniversary, and then they didn't get to celebrate them. They used the Centennial class to get some guys who had slipped through the cracks in previous years into the Hall of Fame. So as a result, I believe eight of the members are no longer with us. But that still left 20 to be enshrined. So they had to split that up over two days, 12 on Saturday, eight on Sunday. The first time, I believe, that they've ever had a two-day enshrinement.

And as somebody has been to many of these growing up just up the road from there, it was strange to see Chris Berman use the same opening line two nights in a row. and it was also strange because that's usually like the crescendo of the weekend and you were like we got done with 12 which kind of felt like a marathon and then you got to Sunday and you're like we're doing this again you got a game on Thursday too and you were like hanging out you were hanging out in the little interviews and whatnot what was the bourbon line that he used twice and do your best vermin uh his one part of his opening line was uh after two long years away well all right I'll say it. We're back, back, back, here in Canton. And he did it today, and I was like, oh, that's funny.

And, like, I got a nice cheer. And then he did it Sunday, but, like, he spent through it. Like, he knew, I can't believe I'm doing this twice. It's the all right I said it that makes it sound rehearsed. Yes, exactly. All right. I'll say. Waiting for it. It's also a baseball thing, so it's a little bit. Yeah, but it's part of his brand. So I guess I understand. We'll give Chris a pass. He's part of all of our childhoods. We're going to give Berm in a class.

pass you're with me leather. All right. So I think the headliner of the weekend is Peyton Manning. And I think Manning really, and it was good to read about him this weekend because the way his career ended, even though he won a Super Bowl in his last season, he was such a shell of his former self. But then when you go back and kind of remember, especially those cults years and how we revolutionized the game from the line of scrimmage and just how great he was for so many years, it was just great to see Peyton, Manning again. And let's cue it up with hearing some of that, again, that Manning humor that Mark loves so much. The 2021 induction class wants to thank those previous inductees who gave

long-winded acceptance speeches, forcing us to have a whopping six minutes to recap our football careers. I want to give a special thanks to my old rival, Ray Lewis, for being here tonight. Ray just finished giving his speech that he started in 2018. Bam. And then Tom Brady was in attendance. Nice, classy move by Brady. These two men going back decades as great rivals. Also, Brady looking like, start to look like George Hamilton, by the way, as he gets deeper into his 40s. Here is what Peyton had to say about Tommy Boy. Next year, accepted speeches will probably shrink to four minutes. And speaking of rivals, my good friend Tom Brady is here tonight by the time he is inducted. By the time Tom Brady is inducted in his first. year of eligibility in the year 2035, he'll only have time to post his accepted speech on his

Instagram account. Nailed it, Chucky. Yeah, yeah, he absolutely nailed it. My favorite part about that sequence of jokes was something we didn't get on air, but they got on the video boards at the stadium. Ray Lewis got out of his seat in reaction to the

joke that Peyton made at his expense. It was like he started walking menacingly towards me. No, that would have been something at the WWE. He just got up and took his hat off and did the whole waving and everything else. That's my favorite thing. It reminds me of the chief's locker room

and hard knocks during the dance off. People just running all over the place. Hard Pollard's greatest moment. I have to ask you real quick. I mean, you were there. The thing I love, Elkanton, it is a great weekend. It's a great kind of primer for football and general. Something very pure about it. But the access, you can just walk

around all over the place. I think Tom Brady, to me, is getting hotter and hotter. He looked very dangerously summary in that clip we just saw. How close did you get to Tom Brady? That's really the only thing I care about. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of meters away. Oh, okay. Good riff. Brady's presence there reminded me to settle a score here on this podcast. How remember that Peyton Manning Super Bowl when he was playing the Seahawks in the big conversation. It was the centerpiece of our NFL.com that day was, will this, would this win cement Manning as the greatest quarterback of all time? And it's a reminder, you know, for you,

LeBron, people out there. It's like, we don't need to decide these legacy things mid career. Yeah. It's like wait till the end. Why do you need to settle scores like this, Greg? I just think this is right now. Because they're only one year apart. So you think of them as like different generations now. It's like wait till the end of the careers and then we can have those discussions. That's certainly fair, Greg. That's certainly fair. But I think what gets forgotten because Brady is just what he's done, no one's ever done before. Hey, fuck you, Greg. Money's right again. What Brady's done has never been done before and all due respect to him. And I think he is the greatest with these five years. But what Manning did how he changed the position and essentially

what he did in the late 90s and early 2000s is the template for how all quarterbacks are now. Aaron Rogers is another example. Like, I think there's something to be said for that. Yes, the longevity isn't the same as Brady. Brady has more Super Bowl wins. But who was the more kind of important quarterback to the evolution of the position? I think that's still certainly something you could say Peyton Manning. Fair, unfair?

Hmm. I think that's fair. I go Brady in every category that exists ever. But I, there is a debate. You're just going to say how hot he is. No, no, it goes beyond the aesthetics. I mean, no one would have even thought Brady was in the same league of, Peyton Manning until like 2006 even and that's when you can even start talking about them

against each other and you're right Dan like the just like the mastery of it in a way though I don't know if Manning is a symbol of like changing the position if anything I feel like he's the last of his kind like he was the court a Belichick said it on that top 100 show he playing Manning was like playing the coach the coordinator and the quarterback and won he's calling all his own plays he it is his offense you saw that when you go to denver they basically just made you know he was the coat like i don't know if there is a quarterback now i don't think there is that has that much control and that goes back to like johnny unites other than tom brady though i mean i don't i don't even think tom brady ever was at the same exact level of running an offense the whole time as well

i vastly disagree but i really i just think in terms of the way the coaches were in the In more in terms of the play calling on the field, like that was some old school Peyton Manning stuff. Yeah, you know, we spent some time this past season marveling it, and we've done this before with Russell Wilson a few times. I think it might have been two years ago when his helmet, the radio shut off and he just led this drive where he was calling all the place down the field. And that was like a big deal that we made a big point of that. That was Peyton Manning on every possession of every game he played in for more than a decade. Soul career. Yeah, exactly.

He also raised the bar of Manning, his dedication to his crap was, and Brady gets all. the love in this category. And he deserves it as well. But Manning's dedication to what he, he stayed in Indianapolis in the offseason. That's all he did. All he did was try to get better, work hard, be the coach, like Greg said, be the best player on the field, be totally responsible. As Wes used to say all the time, he created that skyline in Indianapolis. He was so important to that organization. So I don't know, I just think because Brady Star is so bright, I think it's taken away on some level what Manning represented and what he was in the league throughout the late 90s, throughout the 2000s, into the 2010s, everybody kind of

forgets because they got destroyed by the Seahawks in that Super Bowl, and that was an historic Seattle team. But how awesome Manning was when he went to Denver and had the 50 touchdown passes, 55 touchdown passes, that's incredible longevity. The fact that the wheels fell off at the end is kind of a bummer. And I don't know if that's just the way the Manning brothers are built because Eli, a similar thing happened. And I wonder if anything could have changed or he did have the neck surgery.

We had some serious injuries. If there's any way, if fates were different, maybe him and Brady are lockstep in their 40s, but it didn't work out that way. What else shook in terms of the weekend stood out to you? I know it was a big weekend for the Cowboys, too. Yeah, for sure. I mean, to that last point, just to kind of close that topic, you know, when writing about that on Sunday and in the lead up to this, too, I kind of always wanted to make a point that there

was a time, as we just discussed, that there was a debate between, were you a Peyton Manning guy or were you a Tom Brady guy? It was those two at the top of the league, and that was it. There was no other argument otherwise. And I think that their legacies can coexist in the fact that they were different for the reasons that we just discussed their strengths and weaknesses and what made their their legacies stronger in one area and, you know, Peyton and all the stats and everything else, Tom Brady with the rings, we can go on and on. So he's got a strong top five or top four, or whatever number you want to put on an argument, Peyton Manning. Yeah, absolutely.

I think so, yeah. And his contributions of the game should not be overlooked. And I thought that it was, I was surprised. I talked to the president of the Hall of Fame in the lead up to this about two weeks prior to the giant weekend. Yeah, David Baker. Yeah, David Baker. I love that guy.

And he told me that, you know, we were talking about the shortened speeches. So they had a time limit. And he goes, Peyton has already sent his and told me beforehand that he was writing for six minutes and when he got up there he was he was very um he had like a pace to it it was well paced like he was really trying to get everything in there and it almost as if he was a little nervous which was a little surprising to me and kind of um uh endearing considering the guy that he is speaking in front of 17000 people there that's a little bit when you're playing and you're in the moment it's a little different on a podium and such a big moment in his life so anyway what else

uh from the weekend so uh my favorite experience the whole weekend uh was the gold jacket dinner which is on traditionally on friday nights typically in past years it would be uh You know, kind of the dignitaries of Canton and some fans would be able to buy tables and they would have meals and kind of be among the company of families of gold jacket, you know, in shrines, those people in the returning gold jackets. But because of COVID, it just became kind of an event that they just sat down in rows of seats. But the lead up to it in this adjacent area called the McKinley Room where they basically had a cocktail hour that was about two, two and a half hours. and it was just all these Hall of Famers one after another and their families and friends. I mean, you want to talk about a who's who and seeing football legends of, you know, the past 50 plus years all meeting and talking.

It was just, it's a great experience to witness. I've seen it before because I volunteered doing this growing up, but it was a very exclusive event and to just kind of be on the fly on the wall and hang out, hang out in the back and just, you know, see these guys interacting. And, you know, I watched Ray Lewis get to an argument with Booker McFarland and Derek Brooks is nearby eating shrimp and just laughing in between every bite of shrimp as they're like passionately arguing about something over a buffet table and then a few steps over there's Tony Dungy talking to Berman and then you know you look over here and

it's Franco Harris talking to Alan Fannica Jackie Slater and Orlando Pace two Rams great tackles hanging out meeting up with Isaac Bruce you can go on and on but my favorite moments from those I think one of my favorites was you know Peyton Manning has a son and a daughter his son's name is Marshall and he was dressed to the nines but he was also very focused on making the most of his first trip to canton he had a football you know one of those white hall of fame footballs that are made to be signed and he covered that thing with as many signatures from hall of famers as he could get doing laps for almost the entirety of the event leading up to the actual gold jacket uh ceremony and it was just it was great to watch this kid you know you can

obviously see that he looks like his dad and he's just walking around his little suit getting one signature after another and after another. And it was just quite a scene. It was quite a scene. Did you think you were a player, Shook? No, are you kidding me? I didn't have a gold jacket. I don't have a gold jacket.

I'm not worthy of an autograph in that situation nor in any other situation. You did a great job writing that up, by the way, Nick. I think anyone should give that a read. I do think it would be interesting to get some sort of a clothing type person to provide someone like me who's like 5'8 with a Hall of Fame and a totally fitted Hall of Fame jacket and walk around Canton like you totally own the place and people like is that a kicker did he how did this person get into this all like just absolutely act like you are part of the whole like everybody will think you're ray guy that was just like that's what I was going to say that was my choice yeah you would

fit in some of the older guys you know gravity has its effect you shrink over time uh not saying that you look old but height wise stature wise you'd fit you you probably work for you'll play that one jockey i mean um i mean Drew Pearson rather played at 180. So I can imagine he's not at that now. Like he, he just finally made the Hall of Fame the great Cowboys receiver who started that number 88 tradition, who's, who's a big character. And like, if he was 180 in his career, yeah, he probably, he's probably not too much bigger than than Mark Sessler right now. He pointed that out during his speech. He goes, a little different pigment, but yeah, of course. And, and he's got less hair than Mark does.

So that's where he and I share that. I was doing something else. A little different pigment. Is that what it was that? All right. Shoki, you've said it all, unless you have something else to add. I mean, the Hall of Fame game was kind of a snoozer, but preseason football tends to be like that. What was like, um, is there anything after the game and stuff in terms of talking to players and coaches,

just being a media again at like NFL games in? That was great. I mean, there was no specific highlight other than the fact that it was just great to be in a stadium again, a largely full stadium, a crowd that you could tell was very excited to just cheer for something together. That was awesome. And yeah, like you said, Mark, Micah Parsons says, awesome. Like the Steeler, or not the Steelers, the Cowboys nailed that. I think if he stays healthy, I'm really excited to see him on the field in the regular season action. He wasn't on the field very much, but you couldn't,

you could not ignore him. I mean, he caught your eye on almost every play. Some of these opt-out dudes from 2020 college, I'm keeping, someone's going to have to write like the analysis of this but the guys that skipped playing last year if they i'm just curious how they're going to do because there's a couple joe try and with the bucks being another one who have come out like a like a house on fire and if if players start coming into the NFL as good or better than they would have been if they had played college football in the first place like a lot more people are just going to be skipping i just i just read about a top prospects he skipped this final year of high school to go to car before we know people just like they're just going to

skip everything. Just going to go from like seventh grade straight to the NFL and like this is the path. He's going to Ohio State because he's set to make up to a million dollars in NIL money as soon as he gets there and he might not even play yet. Unbelievable. Shuki, thank you, buddy. Great to see you. And if you would be so kind, we're going to need your help again come regular season time with Sunday night recaps in the regular season. If you can help us out with that, we will be very, very happy. That's not even a question. You already know I'll be here. Cool. I mean, and you get all the Browns games, Mark,

as surprisingly volunteered to just cover the Bengals. No, I'm going to be staged a hold in to have my salary doubled. That's, you know, keep doing the work, but a lot of antagonism. We'll give you an escalator for every Bengals game you do over the Browns. Not including Browns Bengals twice a year. Negatory. There he goes. Nick Shook.

Thanks, guys. The pipe, they call him. One more Hall of Fame note, by the way, before we bring on Seth Payne, a special congratulations to Bob Glauber, friend of the show, all-time good guy, Rockland County guy. And he's worked for Newsday in the New York market for decades. And he received the 2021 Bill Nunn Jr. Award, which is given to reporters who put in the work for years and years and years. And it's a great recognition of a great guy. So Bob Glower, congratulations on that. That is quite a career achievement. One of the nicest guys ever.

Well, the first time I ever met Bob, you're Greg, you're right. He's just a total gentleman. You know, actually, because he is the Pro Football Writers Association lead right now, he actually called me up. I don't think so anymore. Well, all right, so he was. He called me up to have an earnest, honest, honest conversation about why I could not be allowed into that. And I was like, this guy is an absolutely great guy.

But the first time I ever met him was at this other event, and he came up and talked about our show a long time ago when it was the four of us with Wes. And he just said, I want you to know something. Like, I've been covering football for a really long time. What you have right now, the four of you, is very special and it won't last forever. And it always stuck with me. But he also was dead on right. He just has good perspective.

He's a good person and he's a great football reporter. Congrats, Bob. Love you, buddy. All right. Now, as promised, God, we love this dude, too. Another friend of the court. He is the co-host of the morning show on Sports Radio 610 in Houston. He spent 10 years in our live.

league, it's really his league, with the Texans and Jaguars, Cornell guy. Ever heard of it? It is the great, the legend. Seth Payne, welcome back to the around the NFL. Is this live? This is live? What is this? This is live? Live, one of the great rock bands ever, of course. Pain lives by the Riverside. I think it was works a lot. It's got your name in it. But also, right now, there's a lot of pain in Houston around the Texans. And like the seminal alt rock band, you're legendary as well. So that's your new intro, if you're cool with that. Yeah. No, that's great. I think they're out of York PA, too, which is at least within six hours of where I'm from originally. I mean, like live, you peaked, you know, 15 years ago. My physical, yeah, my peak, my celebrity peak, all of that.

It was all 15 years ago. They should have figured out that as the internet grows, if you're attempting to search for live anywhere on the internet, it brings up everything but the band. I mean, just a terrible tag. Not exactly impression on Ed Kowalchik's part there. They were by far the dumbest SEO band of the mid-90s. Well, no, they weren't. That was bare naked ladies. That's true.

All right, Seth, enough of that. Idiocy. You're the man. You are dealing with. What are you dealing with? I know you guys are, you got that. You still got the Astros down there. And you got your heads in the sand about what their reality. But that's good. They're playing great baseball and good stuff on that. But the Texans. What's it like around the Texans right? Take us through it. It is. You know, when I first got into sports radio, I used to look up synonyms for dumb or stupid because that's a word you use a lot or overuse. You know, look at this Ninkin poop. Look at this moron. Look at this dullard. Now I've realized I've got, I've got a start looking up synonyms for weird because I found myself saying weird over and over again. Let me say you this stage for like just today. Today was a day at training camp. We're out there discussing. Let's see. How's Tyrod Taylor going to look, you know, if he starts 16 games this year? Will Davis Mills potentially start sometime in the first half of the season? Jeff Driscoll is your number three quarterback? I don't know. Meanwhile, meanwhile, mind you,

Deshawn Watson is standing right there on the practice field. We're having these conversations about Tyrod Taylor and Davis Mills. And Deshaun Watson standing right there. It's really weird. It's strange. And yet at the same time, I would say that it hasn't been outwardly as much of a distraction as I would have thought it was. It doesn't, you know, you can't read dysfunction or mayhem or anything, at least on the faces of the players who are all just trying to make the team yeah and let me set it up as i should have before we

started watson um he practiced on monday he he reported to camp july 25th yeah and then he uh we know he requested the trade all the legal issues he practiced for the first five days he's practicing as a safety or running back some some idiocy and then he disappeared for five days and now he's back again yeah and let me ask you this the venerable uh john McLean down there, tweeted very matter-of-factly today, Deshaun Watson will never play another snap for the Texans. Do you believe that as well? I personally, I will believe anything anybody tells me about what will happen three months in the future with this team. But right now, if I had a handicap it, I don't think Deshaun

Watson's going to play for the Texans. I think they'd like to trade him. I think the biggest obstacle by far is that you have this extremely murky legal situation that's not any less murky now than it was three months ago, where Deshaun Watson's being accused of sexual assault in the civil courts by 22 women. There are 10 women who have filed criminal complaints against him for sexual assault during massage therapy sessions. Two of those women aren't part of the lawsuits. You have 18 other women that have vouched for Deshawn Watson who provided him massage therapy at some point. All in all, there's about 45 women that we know of that he's pursued massage therapy from in the past year or so, his attorney is at least admitted to

consensual sexual activity within some of these massages, which would sound a whole lot like prostitution. And guys, I'm going to tell you, Greg, I think I heard you a couple of weeks ago talk about how largely it seems like people have stayed hands off with this because it's such a, it's so complicated. And there's just almost no way to talk about it without like spending 20 minutes explaining all the vagaries of it. So I'll stop right there trying to explain the details. There's no, it doesn't look like there's any end insight. Deshawn Watson does not want to settle according to all reports. If he did settle, it would according to his attorney only be if there was no non-disclosure. So like usually somebody settles and that's it. They don't

want any of the plaintiffs to talk about it. Deshawn is actually saying, no, I want to talk about it. I want to be able to tell my side of the story. And it looks like there might not be any clarity on the legal side of things until next January, February, when Deshawn Watson would first be interviewed by the attorney. So I think that this is going to be a murky situation. The commission is exemplous. It's probably going to happen at some point. And nobody trades for them until next spring. That's my personal read on it right now. Right. And that makes all the sense in the world, everything you just said, except for like what's going on this week. Like someone make a decision.

Yeah. Someone make a decision, whether it's the Texans or the NFL, ultimately, I understand why Watson, just where he is right now, is showing up to work. So you need to take it out of his hands because you said it's like murk, you know, as murky as it was three months ago, it's murkier because the criminal investigation is going on. And that wasn't the case initially. And that, that's, that brings a, you know, potential jail time.

it's everything and yeah everyone's saying like they're managing it great like that's fine the guy who just turned your whole franchise over to is there in the building it's it's got to be on everyone's mind it's got to be weird to use uh to use your word and like david cully like i know everyone's going to say well he's getting paid great money to do this like he's not he's not getting paid enough to just like look like a ham and egger up there trying to answer these questions that are impossible to answer every day they're the Texans organization are putting his him in a terrible spot by like rolling him out there. And I just, I don't understand like where and like if this is going to end before the season, like do it now. And if it's not like, I don't

know. You've got, like, do something NFL, do something Texans. I don't know. I think so I'll tell you my theory and I've received some positive feedback on this theory. But I think at least part of the Texan strategy right now is, hey, everybody who's going to wait and see if Deshawn Watson showed up or not. You know, once all these allegations came out, Deshaun had threatened to, well, Deshaun had asked for the trade back in January. That was before all the allegations came out. But the question would be, okay, what happens if Deshawn shows up? And I think there are likely at least a couple things going on with the Texans. One is that they perhaps just wanted to make it as uncomfortable as possible for Deshawn Watson so that he would either consider waiving his no

trade clause if that were a factor or or be that he might decide all right this isn't worth it i'm leaving then the texans could start fining him perhaps getting him a conduct detrimental voiding some of the guarantees there's that and then there's also the possibility that the general manager nick casario just flat out doesn't want to let this precedent of a disgruntled player being able to just say well my ankle hurts and i'm going to stay over in the training room and and that's where we are I'm with you, Greg, and the Texans have not earned any, they've not earned the benefit of the doubt with anything they've done over the last two years, except now that they're in this situation, I don't, I really don't know what the, what the correct avenue out of it is.

You know, do you wait until next spring when you can maybe get three or four first round picks? Do you just try to dump them off right now? No, honesty. How about occasionally answering questions honestly? because he's he's lining up as their fourth string quarterback. So it's, you know, how about do something with, like, integrity and just tell the public, which you don't think you owe anything to, except you're asking for season tickets to be bought. How about being transparent with them?

Well, that's a lot to ask in the NFL, Greg. That's a, that might be a, that's a tall glass of water to ask somebody to suck down. And look, this is, look, this is the team that when they hired Nick Casario, from New England, they sat at the press conference and said, hey, we don't want to be called New England South anymore. Like, you're just, you're introducing a guy that you just hired from New England. This is what you're trying to do. You're trying to be New England South.

So that part, that part's been super awkward. Because David Cully, who I'm still convinced that probably 85% of NFL fans, when I say David Culley, don't know who the hell I'm talking about. He's the head coach. hasn't been a coordinator in the NFL. Hell of a nice guy. Almost too nice, I think, because he's the one that is left to answer questions every week. And I think they've given him his marching orders about what he should and shouldn't say. And he has a really, really hard time with it. And I'd like to say he inherited this situation, but he accepted

the job when he knew that Deshaun was asking for a trade. It's an absolute mess. Do you think a theory I have here, Seth, is with Cully. And I hope it's not true, but he's an older guy. He gets a chance to be head coach. So of course, you're going to take the job. But then I wonder if behind the scenes, the Texans aren't looking for their future at head coach. They're just looking for someone to manage this absolute catastrophe for the organization, a good guy to take the bullets. And then when it comes time to move forward with whatever comes next to this organization, Cully will be shown the door as well. And I guess he'll be paid well for it. But I just wonder in terms of the integrity of the

hiring process if Cully is ever going to get a chance to really lead this organization onward out of this particular mess. I think you're exactly on the right track there, Dan, and that's what's scary because if there's one thing you know about the NFL, you really can't have a master plan. There is no, hey, this is how things are going to work out over the next three, four, or five years because things change every single year. You have different issues pop up. And I know, look, one player told me that Jack Easterby, the director of team development or wherever the hell he is right now during the season told him that this might not be a one coach fixed. They don't be the second coach that gets you out of here. So I think that that's

very much, that's very much in play for what they're thinking. So don't, don't worry. There's a plan. That's the, you know, like as a drunken bridge builder tells you, is his pants are falling down around his ankles. Don't worry. We've got a plan. You'll be fine. You'll get through this storm. You also worry about someone like Nick Casario, who I think, you know, is, the very potentially talented general manager, tiring out and going back to New England like some people do. If this thing gets ugly enough. But you are down there, you're dealing with you.

I think about the fans too. You've got all these people that have been Texans fans since 2002. And there seems to be this massive disconnect, more so than any team in the league, and more so than any franchise I can think of right now, where, you know, the owner, this Jack Easterby guy, and the rest of them, they're all talking left and right and they're trying to act like there's all this integrity around what they're doing.

and the fans have been completely, you know, tossed out the side of a moving car by the side of a road. I mean, when you're dealing with these guys calling in all the time, what is that, are there, are there fans out there that are saying, we just want to see Deshaun Watson, no matter what happened? Or are most people thinking, like, this is a train wreck, they've got to find a way out of this thing? What's the mental state of this badgered fan base? I don't think there's a consensus necessarily right now. And one of the weird moments out at camp this year was Deshaun was out there the first few days. Okay, that was strange.

Then the first day that fans were allowed in, the Texans allowed about 2,000 fans in. They've got a nice covered area. And at one point during practice, a we want Deshawn cheer started coming up. We want Deshawn, we want Deshawn. And I think it was the next day that Deshawn stopped coming out to practice before.

So that little hiatus there they had. So I don't know if that was team motivated. I don't know if that was Deshawn motivated. whatever it might be. There's some people. And I guess, you know, that mark is the other dynamic here that's interesting is you ask, okay, which GM is going to trade for Deshaun Watson? Because there's a PR component there. You've got this guy that's accused of sexual assault by many, many women is because of the complexity of this thing and because of the nature of it, if Deshaun were to settle, if Deshaun were to settle in Houston and if somehow the criminal charges, you know, weren't filed and you never faced charges. I think because it is so

complex, you know how it is with the public. If it's, if it's, if you want the public to know a really, really complex news story, it's not going to happen because people want to hear, give it to me in three sentences and let me know how to feel about it. In this, this case isn't quite like that. It's all these individual cases with different accounts from different women. Some of the cases are likely much, much stronger than some of the other cases. And I think that if he gets, if he were to settle and go to another town, I think that

would, it would probably be easier to smooth over than it would be locally or with some other fan bases or with some other types of transgressions. I think that's true, but it also makes me believe the actors trying to trade Watson now,

whether that's Watson's camp or the Texans are comically full of themselves that they think another team would go for him now with a criminal investigation up in the air. I just think it's so tone deaf and I don't think it's working. I think you've seen like these little rumors pop up that are quickly squashed down. No one's trading for a guy who could be going to jail for sexual assault. like sorry like whoever is like endeavoring to want to do that like that's not going to happen

for you and that's where yeah and that's where it gets really confusing because we don't know okay every attorney is going to say look my client's not settling we don't want to settle but is it perhaps closer to him settling and in which case a lot of times if the women that are part of the the women there's only two women that have filed criminal complaints but that aren't also part of the lawsuit so far that we know of, so would the vast majority of those go away, the criminal complaints go away if you were to settle? That's one of the big X factors. But you're right, Greg, I think in terms of asking for transparency from the team, if they wanted to be completely transparent, I think they'd have to say, look, there's no end in sight for this legal matter.

We're probably not going to get the right price or the fair price for Deshaun until we know exactly what's going on there. So we're just going to put them on hiatus. And they might just be waiting for the league to put Deshaun on the community. is exemplous to be able to do that. I agree. From a PR standpoint, you know, frankly, I don't, I just don't think they're as adept, and I don't think they have the pull in the sway with the league office that maybe some other ownership groups would.

You've said it all, but before you leave, I'd love you to get in a plug. You have a podcast as well, the deceptively fast. It's the deceptively fast podcast. I got a feeling that you might have been called that at some point during your career. I was a grinder. I wasn't, you know, that much of an athlete, but I was just a football player. player, damn it. I remember Gary Mueller. One time I had a really great play, and I had a really great play, which was actually like maybe one of the more impressively athletic plays of my

career, and Gary Mueller was watching the play, trying to compliment me, but insulting me the entire time. What you've got here is a guy? I'll tell you, he's not the fastest guy. He's not that strong, ugly at birth. Mother didn't love him, but look at him. That's just a football player. That's a one fail guy. Well, you know the double thing work. and Seth. You're a big white guy. Yeah. And you were Ivy League educated. So you had that like what Ryan Fitzpatrick gets as well, where it's like, well, he obviously, he's smart. He's diligent. He works hard. You have two things working simultaneously. Well, just like Ryan Fitzpatrick, to try to counteract that, I did some

really stupid things on the football field. I mean, I jumped off sides three times in one half before as a nose tackle. I mean, if there's other, if I can't fight, if I can't fight the perception that way, I don't know what I can do. All right. Seth, you said it all. Let's hit Seth's theme music as we sign them off. And again, follow him at Seth's D's. That's performed shirtless a lot, if I remember, didn't they?

Yeah. Oh, all the time. We hope to have you, you know, talk about Nico Collins and the wide receiver battle or something else to do with the Texans at some point. He's one of those opt-out guys that you said might show up and really excel. With a better quarterback, you might be really excited to watch Nico. I like pain to be agitated. I do this.

I think that you've hit a home run with us because you're sort of always bent out of shape and a little agitated with the franchise, which I enjoy. You did take the bait with that Astros dig either. So that, I mean, just the class act. I'm immune to that. I'm immune to Astros. Oh, no.

Oh, did somebody sneak an inflatable trash can into the stadium? And they threw it into right field? Oh, you clever, clever folks. Let me tell you another thing. These kids, I don't know if you guys saw this or not. This this pavilion full of 12-year-olds chanting bleep el-tube, bleep el-tube, as their drooling and salivating and so proud fathers stood around filming it on their cell phones. Just go ahead, go ahead.

The one guy that refused to participate, well, one of several that refused to participate in the cheating scandal, a five-foot-six kid out of Venezuela, whose parents made about one-one hundredth of what your rich and fancy parents made. I can't wait. I can't wait until you're arrested trying to buy meth your sophomore year at Brown or something. Don't have... How do you deserve Hose-Al-2-A? He was wired for sound

in the ALCS in 18, and you know. I'm out. I'm out. All right, there he goes. Thanks, sir. Wow. Okay. He painted a picture there, the meth sophomore at Brown. I'll buy that.

All right. Wow. I mean, you want to talk about two of the great contributors to the program, Seth Payne and Nick Shook. Thank you to both of them for joining us today. We'll be back on Wednesday. A little bit of a different schedule this week with some things moving around and also with the preseason kicking off for all 32 teams on Thursday. So our next podcast will be on Wednesday. Our NFL network program will be on. Well, is it air on Friday morning or Thursday? I believe Friday morning, taping Thursday, that's of no import to anyone, but it will be on television, I believe Friday. Although I could be wrong. Well, maybe we'll get back to you with info on that. We're going to clarify that on Wednesday's program. But thank you to everybody for listening.

Until then. Heat the call. Thank you. Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a

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