NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Hard Knocks, Cold Feet, & Playoff Predictions

Episode Date: August 7, 2019

A room filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Chris Wesseling, Gregg Rosenthal and Marc Sessler bring you all of the latest news around the league including Antonio Brown dealing with frostbitten feet (4:25), more bad news for the Cowboys (12:53) and Head Coach Freddie Kitchens threatening to fire anybody who leaks information. (22:49) The first episode of Hard Knocks with the Oakland Raiders premiered and it was juicy (27:31). The heroes want to be the first ones to predict who will slide in and who slides out of the playoffs this year. (44:15)Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast is thinking about Mark's slot. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast presented by Sirius XM. My name is Dan Ansis. I'm joined in a room filled with heroes. Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosenthal. What is up, boys? Hey, Dan.

the money drops are getting so inside baseball that we don't even get the joke anymore I'm jogging through my memory and I have no idea but that's okay I'm totally out of loss someone else out there it's a reference to you the other day uh sort of waiting to talk because you hadn't thought about what you're going to say when you when your turn came up yeah it's it's got to the point where someone would reference something that happened like on monday show i don't remember five seconds of monday's show it's kind of like with a joke if you have to explain the joke the joke's already failed if you had to explain the money dropped

but that's sort of on us because it was a recent reference you're right we can just move past well I got it delete the last 40 seconds Wes came up with it apparently so I did not come up Dan you did yell like Mark I can't stop thinking about your slot and a lot of people were tweeting it and stuff so I feel like

they'll get it really at home I don't blame you Dan I'm sure I did say that I say that a lot to Mark both on mic and off all right here we go Monday We are, I believe, 29 days away from kickoff of the regular season. On this upcoming Monday, or? You know, it's Wednesday, right?

Is today Wednesday? Yes. I know you were in New York, but the whole world moved on. Did it? We had our Monday and Tuesday, but you were busy. Yes, I was in New York, a great weekend with the family, went and saw the Yankees, I got to see the Rolling Stones with my dad, Keith Hansis, the biggest Stones fan alive. So that was all special.

And then my plane gets delayed, so I get back to L.A. at 11 p.m., and then it's straight into Hard Knocks duties, which we're going to get to later. The old Zusser is not clocking in and hopping into the sack until about 4 a.m. last night. Little rough. I mean, I do like, it's good to always fly home and have a weekend that you could have had in 1986. Yankees baseball and the Rolling Stones. It was. It was a nice turn back of the clock.

Or 76. Or 66. Today's show, yes, Hard Knocks premiered on. Tuesday night. So I handled the write-up over on the dot com and we're going to discuss what we took out of the first episode, which of course features the Oakland Raiders. Playoff predictions. It's always fun to take a look at where everybody finished last year. 32 teams, 16 to the AMC, 6 teams in the NFC, 6 plus 6. It's 12. 32 minutes, 12. It's 20. 10 teams in each conference. So there's 10 teams in each conference that don't make the playoffs of that group of, is that right? Yes, I nailed it. You confused me with the last part, but I think. Sure did.

I wasn't confused. Like, you know how math teachers or whatever say show your work? Like, don't show your work. I got there, though, didn't I? So there are 10 teams from each conference that did not make the postseason last year. We're each going to nominate a couple teams from that group that will get into the dance this January. And yes, zero-sum game, baby. So we got to take some teams out that,

did make it last year of the 12. And those teams are shaking in their boots when they learn what we come up with here. Hopefully they're very busy in training camps. You don't want to have that voodoo on you. So stay away from this podcast, NFL teams. Also coming up is the news. So let's get to it.

Here's what we're hearing presented by Sirius XM. Ricky, let's do it. You know, the season's nearly starting. The game starts this week. Is there any Giants fans out there? Is there any Jets fans out there? Is there any Patriots fans out there? Oh, the capacity crowd at MetLife Stadium and Jagger, who, you know,

has Mick Jagger ever watched the NFL game? Yeah, or nay. I think he's seen, well, hasn't he performed at the Super Bowl? Yes, he did the Super Bowl 40 in Detroit. Maybe part of that one. Perhaps. I think he, I even vaguely remember, yeah, when they did the little press conference, whatever. It was clear they were not, you know, American football.

Right. They kept the real. They're the stones. I thought that was Neil Reynolds for a second. It does have a bit of a Reynoldsian vibe to it. Let's get to the news. And yes, this is a story. Let's start here.

When you go into the Hall of Fame of Weird Sports injuries, we have a new one. And it's submitted by Antonio Brown. the prized trade acquisition of the Raiders who had a mysterious foot ailment that he's been dealing with for weeks now, and we didn't get really any true insight into how he injured the feed. I mean, obviously it's the offseason. How would you have a foot injury that basically wipe you out of training camp to this point? Hoping to hear more on hard knocks last night. You didn't get any more details from hard knocks. But there was a report that came out on NBC Sports on Tuesday

that he was dealing with frostbite on his feet because he went into one of those cryo chamber things. Is it a cryo chamber? Cryotherapy chamber. But wasn't wearing the right shoes. So it messed up his feet leading to blistering and peeling

and all that. And it was now, so that was thrown out there Tuesday. And then Wednesday confirmed by ESPN, confirmed by NFL network, that that is indeed. how Brown injured himself. And now you can connect the dots, Mark, why John Gruden, we got the report a few days ago,

was annoyed that he hasn't had his star player on the field. This is an all-timer. All-timer. Oh, yeah. I mean, it keeps up a proud 5,000-year tradition where the first case of frostbite was discovered on the feet of a pre-Columbian mummy in the Chilean mountains. But I will say this because these athletes,

they're doing all this stuff in the off-season. and I wouldn't put it past it to have a cryo chamber in his own house. But I would just say this, if it's in a facility, the same way when you go to the dentist and if someone, a dental assistant, you know, took a molar out of your mouth by mistake without any warning, you know, if someone allowed him to go into this chamber with the wrong footwear, is that on Antonio Brown or someone else? Or with no footwear. Or with no footwear.

I just don't have the facts here. He probably just didn't know the, well, I read that this took place in Europe. And for that reason, he can be placed on the not football injury list. Or the Raiders, if they wanted to, could seek some money back because this is a non-football injury. It happened in Europe not playing football. But he already practiced. Right.

So, I mean, he went out there. It's frustrating, and maybe we'll talk AB and Hard Knocks. But you could see how frustrating it is. And it kind of makes sense because when he showed the, maybe he wanted this to get out there because when he showed it, he showed the pictures of his feet on Instagram. Many people's reactions were like, those aren't blisters.

I don't know what is happening there, but like that's not a, those are, that makes sense. Like, yeah, you can see a guy who is famous essentially for his practice regimen is being,

you know, not able to do it because of this. It's a real thing. And they don't seem to know that he's out indefinitely. I don't know what he's out. I would say where are we now? So where today's Wednesday,

you say, for it, August 7th. I mean, if by the time we get to next week and he's still not practicing, then it's not to get legitimately nervous. So that's why you kind of hesitate. You don't want to make too much light of it and have too much trouble with it. But at the same time, it's pretty funny. I mean, it's like a guy that was trapped on Mount Everest for three months who was saved

and rescued. That's what his feet would look like. And the pictures make a lot more sense, but Frostbate essentially destroys nerve endings and can lead to amputation in the most severe cases. Like it's serious and it's a story, but you're right, Dan, there would be something, you know, funny if like someone missed week four because of gangrene, you know what, which is basically what's happening here. It's a serious.

Sort of a World War I injury. Right. It's like a foxhole injury. And there were two, I was a little confused with how it was presented on Hard Knocks, but they, at one point they show him working out with his personal trainer, and he is moving around gingerly. And I wrote on NFL.com, it was kind of like a 14.com. It was kind of like a 48-year-old dad at like a flag football where he was all gimpy and trying to spread,

but you can tell his body is just not going along with him. Maybe certain members of our softball team look this way. That's how I feel running the pace. And then you saw him in camp for a practice, and I suppose, I think he practiced around July 30th. He practiced for 30 minutes. Yes. And he was lighting everyone up.

He looked like Antonio Brown. He looked good. He was amazing. And that's what everyone who watched the practice said was he torched everyone in front of him. but he also lasted 30 minutes and then he had to stop. So he was probably playing through pain. What a mess. Hopefully it gets worked out soon.

But I can understand why John Gruden's pissed. I mean, come on. This is Antonio Brown. Much less, you know, the front office that invested millions of dollars. All right. In other injury treatment news, Bobby Wagner, he just got a three-year, $54 million extension from the Seahawks a couple of weeks ago. well, he's out indefinitely following platelet-rich plasma injection.

Pete Carroll, the Seahawks coach, didn't really delve into it with the public, just saying that there was a, quote, little procedure done on Wagner's lower body. The News Tribune reported that Wagner should be ready for week one. This is not exactly the type of thing, West, that you like to hear. He's a 29-year-old linebacker, a superstar.

You just gave him all the money in the world, and he's getting these injections. Usually not a good thing. But I know in the modern medicine realm of professional sports, maybe this is just routine maintenance at this point. It's beyond my reach. But still, you'd rather not hear about this. You'd rather not be reading about Bobby Wagner getting platelet-rich plasma injections

in his ailing knee. Well, especially in relation to the Seahawks roster where the first-round pick, L.J. Collier has a rare ankle sprained, and now they're saying it may not be as bad as they first thought. K.J. Wright coming off his worst season in which he was plagued by knee injuries throughout. Geron Reed suspended six games, Frank Clark gone, Bradley McDougall, the best player in their secondary, coming off knee surgery this off.

Zig Yance hasn't practiced. There's a lot of question marks for the Seahawks, and I think if you want to look on the bright side as far as Wagner goes, D. Ford from the 49ers, I believe, just had a similar procedure, and they only have him being out two weeks. So I'm sure every player is different and every case is different, but this doesn't sound like something that will haunt him going into the regular season. They also said he's had it before, so.

I like it when we have. have a new procedures just added to the mix and we're expected to just know what that means because suddenly platelet rich plasma surgery or injection is everywhere. Like everyone's just getting the plate with like we have any idea what that. Isn't they spin the blood? Let's put that into Antonio Brown's feet one. Let's put those in those frostbitten feet. See how that helps.

But now it's like going to the dentist. It's just like, oh, yeah, I'm getting a PRP. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah, what you said earlier, we don't know. I don't know. Maybe it's nothing. Maybe it's everything.

I don't know. I'd be a little concern, especially in the D-Ford case, just because he's had so many knee injuries. We need, like, a medical attache that we can just reach out to quickly on the phone for these types of things. Our own, Dr. David Chow? We need a Chow.

It's like a Chowdown. It's like a Chowdown. It's got to be an auxiliary individual to Chow. But it has to be, he has to have the last name Chow because there's just so much to go with there. You can find a few Chows. A mailman story. Yeah, the Wednesday night Chowdown with David Chow,

get him on the horn. What was that was? When I deliver him in Kentucky. I mean, we could call them. 96, 97, every person in Kentucky, Northern Kentucky had a dog that was a chow. They all had the same chow and they were all named bear, every single one of them. Why? Why?

I don't know. That was like the dog of choice for this area of the country and they were all named bears. Chow's a smaller. They're named bear because they're kind of like have that furl around their heads and stuff and hunched shoulders. That's a Kentucky type dog. They sort of surprises me that that would be the dog you'd find in Kentucky. I'm not talking about like the blue grail. part where you might find hound dogs.

This is closer to the city, like closer to Cincinnati. Like the she-she, Kentucky elite. I would call them ghettos. Okay. I'm more confused. More injury news.

This had a Cowboys camp. Jane Slater reports defensive Ed and Robert Quinn fractured his hand during a practice in Oxnard and is Oxnard? Yes. Oxnard.

I like Oxnard. Oxnard. I'm sure there's some locals that do that. nerdy ox. El Segundo, El Segundo type vibe. Yeah. Anyway, broke his hand in Ox Nard, California, heading back to Dallas to have surgery. Another 29-year-old that is a key role on a key member of this defense.

They expect him to be ready for week one against the Giants, that from Stephen Jones, the team's executive vice president. But Greg, again, there used to be this line that used to drive Yankees fans crazy. Gerardi, their longtime manager. Anytime you asked him a question that was something negative about the team, he would always start the answer the same way. Well, it's not what you want. Well, in this case, it's not what you want.

And it drove everybody crazy. No, and another thing everyone says at this time of year that drives me a little crazy is they're all expected to be ready week one. Newsflash, they're not all going to be ready. They're not all going to be ready to play a full complement of snaps. Robert Quinn's been injured a lot over the years. Here are the key cowboys who may not practice for the. entire month of August.

DeMarcus Lawrence coming off surgery. Robert Quinn coming off surgery. No one has any idea when Tyrone Crawford, who is also starting on their defensive line. So that's three of the four. Byron Jones, by far their best cornerback a year ago coming off surgery. Ezekiel Elliott, we don't know where he is.

Like, that's a lot of key starting players on the Cowboys. It might be to the Giants' favor, playing them in week one. I don't know if they're really going to be ready for that. so great if Eli lit up Wes's Cowboys in Week 1. Oh, what a party that would be on Monday. It's just like too many.

It's too many players. With what receivers? I don't know. Eli running for maybe 70, 80 yards. I'm just saying if I'm a Giants fan, that's the week. If you're going to have to play in Dallas, that might be the week to do it.

I would think that the Cowboys look at it the same way. Thank God we got the Giants Week 1 with all these injuries. That's fair. And one thing. Wes is not moving off that. It's the Giants. Can someone in America stop acting like the Giants? It was just a joke, last.

It was just the joke. They're always bad and everyone thinks they're going to be good. Are you going to make me root for the Giants Week one just to go against you? They're becoming likable. One of my rules that I never want to see happen, I don't want anybody on my offensive line or my defense line to have the club. And Quinn's going to get the club. He's going to have the big old club. And you're going to hear Collinsworth explained, well, you know, he's been working with the club a lot and it does limit him in some ways.

But he's doing his best. And it's just like, no, get him out of the club. In other Cowboys news, they're still trying to get contracts done with a variety of big-name stars. Greg, name some of them, NFL networks, Jane Slater once again, she's nailing that beat. They're keeping her busy. Friend of the pod reported Tuesday that the Cowboys have, quote, generous offers on the table for quarterback Dak Prescott, wide receiver, Amari Cooper, and running back Ezekiel Elliott that would put each one in the top five at their present. What do they have, like, quadruple the cap space of any team in the league?

Just make everyone a top five star and pay? Anyway, Slater adds that the Cowboys are ready and willing to get deals done, but if both sides can't agree on numbers that make more sense, they're prepared to play this season with each player on a prove it deal. And finally, Wes, over the weekend, Jerry Jones confidently said, quote, it'll happen when asked about the Trio's contract situations, noting that the Cowboys are in too good a place not to resolve.

resolve the situations. Well, generous is in the eye of the beholder, right? If they were generous enough, they'd be signed on the bottom line by now. So obviously the players didn't think they were that generous. And I think when the Cowboys, this is unique. Dak Prescott probably wants to be paid more than a smart team would pay, Dak Prescott. Zeke Elliott has, what, two more years on his contract.

That one's especially unique, yeah. And Amari Cooper, I mean, he thinks he's arguing from a position of strength because he saved the Cowboy season last year, but he's not a top 20 wide receiver. Whoa. Well, by production. I think Dak and Cooper, I mean, look, they're at practice. They don't seem that, Cooper especially, doesn't seem worried about it all.

And I think if I could, I would, well, I can't put money on it. We work for the other. No, no, no, no. You are not allowed to. I'm going to predict Dak Prescott has a contract before week one. And it wouldn't surprise me if, and if I had to, I would predict Cooper has one, you know, before week 10, you know, that he has one. Zeke seems like the one that, I don't know, who knows?

I mean, you look at these three guys. The way Jane reported it that the generous offers would put each one in the top five at their positions. We don't really know what that means. It's too vague to dig in, but let's just say. It's not a surprise because you have to pay them that much to get anyone to sign these days. I got you. But like, if it truly is when you factor in the guaranteed money and that's the most important thing, a top five, I would say if you're Amari Cooper or Dak Prescott, you take that money.

Those guys, you know, that's good money for guys that I'm kind of on West's side with where Cooper is as a player. Prescott is on the right side of the Dalton scale. And I don't know if he's going to go too much further than that. Maybe he gets better as he ages. Zeke is a top three, top two, maybe the best running back. He's the guy that's different than those two guys. I mean, I do feel like at this, you know, for the amount of time we have to spend covering every nook and cranny of the league that the only thing that could possibly be more annoying than one touchy contract situation. in Dallas is three contract situations.

I mean, I would just simply like some of these to get resolved to take them off our place. But Jones also said that I'm sure this is going to get resolved because it's good for everyone. It's good for them. And I agree with that. The Zique one is, I think, different, but the other two is going to happen. Let's roll through a holdout conversation. Jadavian Clowny of the Houston Texans. He's been staying away from camp as he wants to get that big contract.

He hasn't gotten it. The Texans placed the franchise tag on Clans. Clowny, the soft seasons. He expects to report this from Rapsheet that he will report after the team's third preseason game against the Cowboys on August 24th, which of course is also the last game, unless you're Bill Belichick that you play your starters typically. So Clowny sitting out training camp, sitting out preseason, assumingly taking care of himself and will be ready to roll week one.

Nobody panic in Houston. Have a contract year? I mean, if he has a huge year and finishes it off the way he did last year, really the last couple years, he tends to close very strong. I mean, he is going to get an incredible amount of money. He is ranked fourth in my top 25, 2019 free agents list coming out Thursday. They said it was too early to do it in August. It doesn't matter.

I'll put it out anyways. I mean, other sports, you talk about free agency like a year in advance. Get ahead of it. Hey, here are the guys that you're going to kind of be like watching. and Chris Jones is in there. You know, DAC for now. Think about it. Philip Rivers.

When you think about the football cognizanti, Cooper, as we know it, everyone has their writer, reporter, who handles certain types of articles. Okay, so let's say ESPN has Bill Barnwell. I think he'll be agitated at this. CBS has so-and-so. NBC has so-and-so. He loves it. NFL.com, Greg's our guy.

So Greg is in competition with all those other dudes. So if you get it out, if you don't get it out first, you get it out last. That's what I mean. I think Barnwell will be a good. We're giving him this information. This is the first time I never done in August. Barnwell is going to see it and go, that's neat. I should have done that he's going to say.

You're a competition with MDS. Did you know that? It's more that I've known, like other sports, they're talking free agency all year round in the NBA. I know it's not as good in the NFL. Greg, you're cutting. We know that. By the way, I, what, trying to do your job well does not mean. Cunning.

Cunning's a compliment. It's not really. I asked your boy move the sticks to rank because I was seeing if you would agree with me. Chris Jones, Clowny, and Lenny Williams, one, two, three. What do you think he would do? Wait, say it again? Chris Jones, Clowny and Leonard Williams. What does Cunning mean?

Cunning, no, you guys are right. It's having or showing skill in achieving ones ends by deceit or evasion. It just makes you think of like a villain basically in a movie. Yeah. I thought, see, Machiavellian, I knew. was a negative thing. I thought Cunning was just more like sharp of mind and kind of a step ahead of the game.

Oh, it's just creating some content that people want. Why not? Picture the bad guys on our IT dirty stuff. What's that? The bad guys on our IT videos. See, those are Machiavellian figures.

Yes. Anyway, check that out, that piece by Greg. Oh, what were you saying? It doesn't matter. Leonard Williams, Chris Jones, and Gedevi and Clowney. What about them? Three big boys.

Those are the three guys. Rank them. Oh, I put. I had DJ rank. I was curious. What was his rank? He went in that, or Jones, Clowny, Lenny. Yeah.

Lenny's an interesting guy. He is. I think, by the way, I think Clowny is in kind of a similar boat to Joey Flacco years ago, where the Ravens probably could have gotten a deal done. Would have been expensive, but not exorbitant, and they decided to wait it out. They got banged. I wonder what happens with Houston here? Well, what would Nick Casario have done here?

Nick Casario? Yeah. I mean, I think he might have sealed this thing. up if they had gotten the right GM in their, you know, I think Clowny will be playing elsewhere next year. They have a GM. They have a head coach playing GM. He's the general runner.

He's trying to do the Belichick thing. We'll see if that works. He's got a pastor as their GM. That's right. Finally in the news, Mark, your boys, the Browns, ain't no leagues to be found here. It's a new era in Brownies football, a little saga that broke out on Monday during the Browns Press conference

with Freddie Kitchens. First of all, Bob Wiley, who we all remember from Hardnock, the erstwhile offensive line coach big old belly big old mustache drove a Lamborghini wild situation he kind of he kind of came went on the radio and got after the Browns a little bit obviously he's he's upset that he was let go and he found out that he was fired he said when he was in the hospital after some surgeries to his lower body and maybe some platelet rich plasma injections I don't know but Wiley basically goes out and says Freddy Kitchen

is the coach. Come on. He only got that job because he's Mayfield's boy. And that led to Freddie Kitchens addressing it, saying, you know, Bob knows what Bob knows about why he's not here anymore and that. But I also, while I'm here, I would like to make some statements about the ship here in Cleveland in 2019. You know, the days of inside information and the days of unnamed sources and stuff like that have ended. So you're not going to get any information like that ever. Anybody. And if I ever see it, they're fired immediately.

That's the way we're running this organization. And I can take it. John Dorsey can take it. We won't crack, I promise you. How do you think he got there from, did you think the reason he chose not to bring Wiley back is because he thought he was a rat? Well, he made one good point.

All rats off the ship. Well, he's a huge Jackson guy, Wiley. Right? And Wiley, like, I guess, had gone on and on about the fact that he wanted to retire, and he wasn't actually under contract with the Browns. So it was like, is that the guy you want to bring back as your dude? I mean, I think there's that. It's something like there was some bitterness. I thought it was interesting that he named Ken Zampizi as the architect behind the late season offense, not Freddie Kitchens. It seemed a little bitter. But, you know, I don't know, Kitchens hasn't been in Cleveland for a long time. But there has been a 10-plus year, much more actually, 20-year history of,

really damaging leaks in that building coming from multiple regimes. It seemed like no matter what happened, regime after regime was taken out by really ugly leaks. And he took it to the, I think Hugh was leaking stuff. We all know that. But to me, I love this. The thing is, here's the problem you say, maybe so. If you say you're going to fire someone, something's going to come up. And then at that point, you're going to have to put a man on the case.

We might get Frank Signetti on the Brown's payroll. You're going to have to handle some of these cases if someone leaks something. By the way, but if we ever see it, they're fired immediately. What if Baker gets frustrated and says something to your girl, Mary Kay Cabot? There are levels of, you know, who said what.

The most, I think Freddie was understandably just annoyed at this guy because he took some pretty direct shots. And then the most, I think, direct was that Dorsey wanted Freddie Kitchens because he wanted a head coach he could control. That was basically what he said, that Dorsey did not want a guy that he had to go head to head with like he did with Andy Reid in Kansas City and lose out on.

And he kind of has that in Freddie Kitchens. But I don't necessarily think that's that bad of a thing. But if I was Freddie Kitchens, that annoys you. Of course you're going to be annoyed by that. The way, the rhetoric from Bob Wiley, as if that was the only reason that you wouldn't hire Greg Williams because you wanted to control your head. Greg Williams comes with many reasons not to hire him. That's true.

I don't, Freddie doesn't strike me as a guy like a puppet that you can pull the strings on too easily. Right. That's true. I don't think so, no. That's what's happening in the news. Four men on a search. Each man different. Living his own way, searching.

Discovering Numero Uno, the new thing in Cologne's friend. men. In all the world, there are only four basic masculine scents. Here's the best of each. Numero uno gold. Numero one green. Numero uno red. Numero uno silver. Four Numero uno colognes. All different, all wild. Find yours with a searcher kit, a jigger of each scent. Then get a full-sized bottle of the one that makes it for you. All right, let's get to it. Hard Knocks is back. The acclaimed, venerable, cunning,

HBO toky series. Return for a 14th season on Tuesday. The subject, of course, the Oakland Raiders. And, yes, for the eighth year, the Zeus are writing up. Episode Recaps on NFL.com, where have the years gone? And getting better, I might end. They have gotten markedly better and better organized.

Not that it needed to. But the writing itself has gotten, like, you're bringing it up a level. You have a historical grasp of the subject, some historical knowledge. It does. It kind of pours out of you when you track the show this close over the years. And this was always, once it was announced, once it was rumored, It was always going to be about John Gruden And there were other players

And we'll get to it that jumped out and coaches perhaps But the episode opens The first thing you hear from is John Gruden on the field And that was kind of I think what the table setting was in episode one That this is what the John Gruden experience is And Oakland's hear a little bit from the second year coach There was a saying around here

Once a Raider Always a Raider We are going to be physical most importantly we're going to be smart and we're going to be relentless you can lead the league in effort because it takes no talent it's just a decision that you make we have a chance to be one hell of a big story this year man if we put our heart and soul into this football team

we want to win and we want to win now knock on what if you're with me okay we should start doing that by the way whenever we're having a show meeting and like so we're all agreement on that and go and we all knock the table together all in that feels like a good move um so west i'll start here with this episode first all i don't think for the the hype building up i don't think it was one of the all-time hard knocks episodes i thought the premiere last year for instance with the browns was much more interesting i don't

think this was a dud by any stretch but i think that the um that you want to come out of each episode like last year it was a home run because you had all that palace intrigue involving todd haley and hugh jackson and freddy kitchens who people forget was also in that uh argument about guys sitting out practice and that was such catnip for HBO films and of course the audience. Nothing quite that good in this premiere. But I did get me thinking as I'm watching how John Gruden, even though he did the cliche trope thing as the head coach leading up to the show's premiere where he said, oh, we don't, you know, I don't need to be on hard knocks. John Gruden, this is a good platform for a guy who, and this room right here is a good

microcosm of that because I know mark you've been outspoken on this but you're far from alone the idea that why should you believe in john gruden as a head coach in 2019 and and he's in the midst of a tear down and rebuild and it's going to take years to show whether or not he's somebody who should have your respect as a head coach in the modern NFL landscape but for now a show like this can show what john gruden really does behind the scenes and I think to me the first episode he came off well he didn't come off as a relic to me So that was one takeaway to me He seemed like he was control of the ship

He didn't feel like an ancient guy Trying to push his old teachings onto a new generation But it is important to know us And remember how long it's been Since Gruden was relevant as a coach 2007 was the last time He took a team to the playoffs

Which is forever ago In any measure But especially in the NFL What were your takeaways on Gruden in episode one? I think as far as Gruden goes I think what you say is true Maybe to most people he came off well I think I've reached my saturation point with John Gruden

And to me he always comes off As a relentless hype man Salesman Carnival Barker I just don't believe anything he says Well he's He's great at a party Like that's what I think you know They had that little get together at the end where

What was it? Season ticket holders or? I think it was ex players a lot And I was just thinking like John Gruden would be a great guy to have a party. I think it'd be a great guy to have on your Monday night football team that you like work with him.

Like he's just great at smoozing and dealing with people and he has a little bit of a salesman too. And so whether that helps, yeah, he's absolutely. I think all coaches have to be salesmen. Right, whether that helps as a head coach, I don't know.

Like, you know, the speeches and the knocking and the always the raider, it's like, you know, you can see if you're a veteran that's been there for a while. That stuff's only going to work for so long. Like I'd love to have an analytics

study how much speeches help? Like, are speeches going away in post-analytics world? Because my analytics say you can make no speeches and it probably wouldn't make any difference. That said, because I already came in with fearing this... But I enjoyed him, by the way. I love watching. Yeah, I came in fearing this edition of Hard Knocks

for a couple of reasons. And I would say I would have put Gruden and Antonio Brown at the top of the list. And I put them both in my winners column personally because the way they directed the episode, which wasn't a total banger, but I thought it was, they shied away from total tropes

and some of the stuff that I saw with the Rams season that, with eight minutes in, I was done with that one. I thought they did another, they understated some things, and Gruden to me, I think I agree with you, West,

that all that stuff I feel too, but I kind of came away liking him and thought that he did himself a service and the Raiders overall. I mean, I thought when we see Mark Davis, who knows what's going to happen there, everyone kind of was less was a little bit less annoying to me and more watchable than I thought they would be

Ricky what are your thoughts about speeches and hype speeches I think they're really important and Greg that was a really dumb comment wow analytics that's your speech I am client so I wanted to give her the platform I just feel like you're like analytic show that speeches don't make a difference like when you're what joke oh okay I just mean like all these shows there's speeches all day every day and it seems like for grown men that are professionals. Bill Belichick agrees with me.

Like he doesn't make any speeches. Bill Belichick does. He does. He does, but you pick and choose. But I mean, you're still dealing with your emotional human beings too. Here's the parade that's they're organizing already ahead of their Super Bowl win. I mean, it's the same stuff. Bill does it too. I just

mean like the amount of it in the NFL I think is a little much. But you have to get to get people together, to get them believing i think it's really important i think that's the difference is these are NFL players this is in college like these are young kids these guys are as motivated and as professional for the most part the ones that succeed as john gruden he's got a young roster and you could tell that there are a lot of kids obviously the three first round picks um and they i don't know you you can't tell just from watching

a reality show but it did seem like they he had you know and i hope he had coach wood but their their full attention was on grude and they seemed they seemed to be buying in and one thing i like you were talking about mark about how once you watch season after season of hard knocks you sometimes you see kind of a hard knocks trope coming and that's why i did like the scene uh because i don't track some of these bottom of the roster guys even if a pft does a news item on it i'll typically miss it so i didn't know anything about ronald ali i didn't even watch last chance you so i was not plugged in on this at all but ronald ali was a undrafted free agent who appeared on Last Chance You, which is that Netflix show, Greg, that I know you're a big fan of.

And when he shows up in the beginning of this episode, you're thinking to yourself, if you're not tracking the Raiders day to day. Oh, this is obviously a five-episode arc about Ali who survived community college football. Now he's going to make it all the way to the end of cuts. Well, no, he kind of shows himself to be a little lethargic or not quite all the way in. He pulls himself out of a practice, misses a training session, and Gruden says, get out of here. And just like that, as a Hard Knocks fan, that

was a little jarring. It's like when Samuel Jackson got eaten by the shark in Deep Blue Sea, you know, you know that scene, obviously. Or when Stigal... I saw it in the theater while driving the country. Certain shocking movie deaths, that was kind of a shocking

hard knocks death, so I did kind of like that, although I feel bad for the young man from Mississippi state there's a lot of like you know this is the NFL this is how the I mean if that wasn't an NFL moment I don't know what is like it's incredible kind of how sad it is how long his journey was this is a guy who watched his that his parents were murdered when they were both of them were murdered when he was five years old and he had his issues in terms of like working hard and good but a very like really likable guy that you know beat the odds his first person in his family

to ever go to any college, much less, you know, community college. And then he gets through that barely, but he kind of excels. And then he goes to like a low D1 school and does well enough to get this one chance. And it's like over like that. And it's a reminder, I think, the biggest difference I think between the NFL and those low D1s is like practice. You know, like practice is so professional. I think if you're coming from, I forget where he played. Nickel State.

nickel state it's like you better be ready to to practice like a professional immediately or that's it like that might like that whole process of he had literally hundreds of people helping him along the way to get to that one point and it might be over at the bottom of the NFL roster it's so the it's such a thin razor thin line margin of error you could tell the way it was being presented that he wasn't quite all the way there mentally and that's it you're done once you're in that place and you're not realizing There is no, you can pull yourself out of a practice with a sore Achilles, but you cannot, if you're on the edge of a roster, then miss a training session. You're just asking it to be sent home, and that's what happened. This scene and some of the scenes from all or nothing take me back to, remember when we had Kara Sneed on and she had that iceberg example, 90% of the stuff happens beneath the surface? We watch on Twitter and we watch games and we see the stats and we see the play,

but we don't get to see the personalities that much or what's behind the scenes. And when you watch some of this stuff on the reality TV, you see how some players might get a reputation for being a little bit softer than other players, why some players get cut, why some players aren't playing as much, because maybe they don't try as hard in practice as other players do, and that gets them in the doghouse. And there was a great comment inside the show by one assistant to another saying

how tough it is to coach players that aren't driven the way that Greg mentioned, that it's just a pain in the butt. Brenton Buckner, for the people that got into NFL network in the early days was one of the most enjoyable, parts of the NFL network. He was like a player's correspondent and then sort of was an analyst. And like the network's a lot more serious, takes itself a little more seriously than it did probably.

Just a bit. They just let Brenton Buckner kind of have the land in 2006. And he was, he was awesome. You know how Sam Farmer just got into the Hall of Fame journalism wing for his coverage of Los Angeles and the scene? Yeah, that's a big achievement by Mr. Farmer. That's that's your ticket to Canton in terms. of your knowledge of NFL network history,

especially the early days, the Wild Wild West days, which no one is as plugged in as you are, Greg. I mean, you reference it many times on the show. Like, you know NFL network better than anyone else. Well, I watched it. The most I ever watched it was the first four years it was on, because I'm just stuck in a, you know,

apartment in New York City. A debtor's presented to that issue you have the game of the game. I'm hoping they have some news on it for me. A couple of other thoughts. We hit on Antonio Brown. He was obviously a big, part of the episode. Can I say one quick thing? I was so fearing the hot air balloon scene. That's the kind of thing I can't stand. I thought that the way that they shot it, I want to get on a hot air balloon.

I don't want to be Dante Stalworth and crash into a telephone pole in Miami. But I thought that the way they shot it, like, subverted what I thought it would look like. He was less annoying. The whole thing was just relaxing. You know, my thought was like, Antonio, I hope they don't have a random test when he gets off the balloon out of the basket. Have one of those tests. Troubling. Well, he seemed to be very relaxed. Very relaxed. I noticed that his comment about the basketballs, they all fall out, right? That's not getting as much traction as Jared Gough's sunrise, sunset thing.

Or right, Tan Hills, who's in the AFC East? How long would it take to put 275,000 basketballs in a balloon anyway, A.B? Jonathan Abram, one of the first round picks, the safety, he stood out. He seemed to really like the camera. You could either think that's fun or that could get on your radar. I could see where you are on that mark I just You know what I get

I get it enjoying the cameras I think that like if you looked at the reaction too there was there were probably two camps like he's the breakout star I don't know if star means likable because I thought that he was and I'm not trying to be an old idiot about this I think it was a little disrespectful to Gruden

saying you can't cut me you know no matter what I do there was a twinkle in his eye though I get I got the same a little bit of an uncomfortable feeling there too he created an awkward situation with Derek Hart at the dinner where like this guy taking everyone out to, it just rub me a little bit the wrong way. And I thought on NFL network today, Steve Smith felt the same way and called him out about hitting people in a padless practice. And, you know, and Abram turned around, or he basically turned around and said,

challenge Steve Smith. Like, you'd be scared of me if I did that to you. And it's like, Steve Smith was like, no, I wouldn't. Like, I mean, at some point, settle down just a bit. He's also enjoyed it all. One of the subplots is, like, how the cameras change things. I mean, someone, a Raiders reporter who's been watching all this says, he just thinks people are 10 to 15% more on guard or a little different when the cameras are around. Like, of course, like, the cameras kind of change the alchemy of everything. Like, I think of that with the Gruden stuff.

Like, all of it. But that's part of it. That's fun. And my final thought was Derek Carr, who's friend of the show, future MVP, obviously, famously came on the show and unblocked Greg and I from Twitter. or has a bit of a reputation as being a sensitive fellow. And such a nice guy, like one of those guys that's almost like,

you're almost put off by it? I don't know, maybe that's like of a New Yorker in me that I'm a little weirded out when someone's too nice. Will, does the John Gruden, Derek Carr, is that a match, a personality match? I still have my questions. Even Gruden at the end of the episode, he's like, tell them to be mean.

Tell him, you know, he's like, he said, like, you know, he got to get you angry or something. I don't think it's in Derek Carr's nature. That, to me, remains when you look at, for me, the Raiders in 2019 and beyond. That marriage just seems like maybe a mismatch personality-wise. It doesn't mean he can't succeed Carr going forward and get back to his 2015 ways. But is that a long-term marriage? I don't know.

I think Derek Carr, there's skepticism surrounding him, not just with the coaches, but with other players. And to me, the scene with AB's kid where he said, Where's Rathlisberger? I just wrote down. I hope that's not the theme of the Raider season. Yeah. There you go. So check it out, NFL.com slash Hansus every Tuesday.

We'll have recaps up on the site. By the way, the intro is unbelievable with the autumn win. Like, where else are you seeing poetry on HBO just, you know, read for like a minute, which they also did in the middle of it? It's cool. I kind of like the way. I mean, there's very little about. any other team or any of their sport

that has the tradition of the Raiders like I'm still into the Raiders being the Raiders that they have the Cliff Branch jersey that Mark Davis and Al Davis like I don't know there is something special about them the John Madden moment is awesome right I like that they really play to that history there's only a few

of those franchises and it's cool to see that the Fascenda remix of the Hard Knocks theme was unbelievable yeah all right finally let's do it let's have a little fun we haven't done this we usually do this like during the quieter times we held off this year when we make those fun old playoff predictions and what do you do i explain to the top i'm not doing

the math again i'm not doing it again i got it right what are the chances i get it right twice not high low stay out of it anyway i reached out to NFL research okay i reached out to NFL research before the show and new playoff teams by season okay dating back to 2014 5 and 14 4 and 15 6 and 16 8 in 2017 7 in 2018 so 12 teams make the playoffs you do the math it's it's the turnover is over 50% on average and look at the worst the first then when you go T's teams that finish the previous season. In fourth place, they go all the way back to first place. It happens every year, and usually multiple times.

The Redskins did it in 2015, 4 and 12 to 9 and 7. The Cowboys in 16 went 4 and 12 to 13 and 3. The Jags 3 and 13 to 10 and 6 in 2017. The Eagles, 7 to 9 to 13 and 3 in the Super Bowl, the Bears last year, and the Texans last year. Both went worse to 1, 5 and 11 to 12 and 4, 4 to 12 at 11 and 5 respectively. So there you go. That's going to happen again. History is instructive, as Chris Wessling famously says.

I think Satana might have beat me to do it. So I say that to set the primer that we're probably going to be right with some of these predictions. So let's give it a whirl. I'll tell you how I did it, by the way. I looked at the 10 teams from each conference, and I put stars next to three, and then I ranked them one to three most likely to do it. And then I did the same thing. the opposite way in terms of the teams that made it most likely to fall out.

Very scientific. Very scientific. And look at the research I did. I went to L.A. researchers, just an amazing crew here in NFL media. We would not be the giant that we are without the research team. Mark, get us going. Let's start with you. And please, do not be bashful.

Don't leave a certain team out that plays in the Midwest just because. Just because. Well, I'm not. I am going to the Midwest, but it's not. where you think, potentially. I have had my suspicions about the Chicago Bears. Yes, you have. I feel like everything last year.

It was a great story. I like the organization, awesome fan base. So let's leave all that by the side of the road. 12 and 4 last year in a division where I think the Vikings were still figuring themselves out. A lot went wrong with the Packers last year. It was sort of a meltdown organizationally. They are reborn, Green Bay. And I'm not a huge Green Bay support.

quarter. But if we're going to... Wait, wait a second. Timeout. I don't want to step on you. But you're not buying into that. I'm coaching the game. I'll call time out. You're not buying that. You've been telling us for months you don't buy that. Here's the thing. I don't buy them as automatic Super Bowl contenders, but this division to me is totally wide open. I think you've got a, you've got, you still have Aaron Rogers at the peak of his career. I think for all this business about can Aaron Rogers and Matt LaFloor get through their, how the pre-snap adjustments work in all this business. Don't

care. I think they've reloaded on defense. I like the upgrade from Dom Capers to Mike Petten, always have. Your instincts on the Packers, it should be pointing out. It's been pretty darn good. I didn't like them at all last year. And I'm not saying I'm signing up, signing them up for the next Super Bowl. You didn't like them. I'm not saying I had to like them, but part of it is, like, I don't think that there's some sort of roving trash bag. There's talent on those sides of the ball. It's a anti-Bair. It's a bear. It's a bear's thing. I think the bears. The Bears last year, the These teams where you are getting... It's like American Beauty.

You're getting turnovers every single week. You're getting key touchdowns off of turnovers. You're winning games with those defensive touchdowns by three or four points. And you're hearing reports of Mitch Trubisky. And I, listen, I wish him well, but that he's already been very inconsistent in an offense that I thought schemed around the quarterback as well as you could possibly ask in the NFL. And you're asking him to make a big leap, big leap if that deep. defense doesn't come in under a new coordinator and double down on what they did last year.

I just think the door is open for, and I think we're going to see it right in week one, that there's going to be a little bit of a snake bit feeling to the Chicago Bears this year. It's not going to go just like last year. And Green Bay, everything went wrong last year. If even five things that went wrong, don't go wrong this year. Let's start with Aaron Rogers playing every game, then I would be absolutely fine with a totally healthy from wire to wire Aaron Rogers, a rebuilt defense without Don. Capers falling asleep up in the booth, went in key situations.

Ouch. And an offensive group that I believe in just enough to win the division or at least not take that playoff spot away from Chicago. Okay. So you're doing the one for one. You're putting the Packers in. Packers in and Bears out. And Capers, you know, rest in peace.

It was not their coordinator last year. I know he wasn't. But Mike Petten was not the major issue last year either. I miss Monday show. But all right, let me jump in here and say, I'm with you. I was surprised because I knew you weren't a big. Packers guy of late because I also think the bears I am an objective journalist no offense to the bears but

all the things you just said I agree with so I had that number one of my list to fall out and it's not all because I think the bears are going to collapse but because that division it's I think year to year it's just chaotic but I have the Vikings as that team that come in and go and get the bears and kind of take back the north after what was a disappointing season I've talked about it last week's show I don't need to go down that road again why I think the Vikings will be better, but they're my pick.

And I had the Packers, too. So I do think we're going to see a shakeup in that NFC North, and it's going to be very difficult for the bears to repeat what they did last year. Now, Wes, you like Trubisky, I think, a little bit more. Mitch Trubisky could get better. And he was just in his second year, right? I am wholly unconcerned about any training camp practice reports about Mitchell Trubisky. It doesn't matter.

Right. It just doesn't matter. What I do like is that Matt, there are only, I don't know, less than fewer than 10 coaches in the NFL who are great at getting playmakers the ball in space. And Matt Nagy is one of them. He did it with Tariq Cohen last year. Now he has Cordero Patterson. He's got David Montgomery. He's got Mike Davis.

He's got a lot more players to get the ball in their hands. I think the offense takes a step forward. The defense, they're too talented to me to fall apart unless there's injuries. But I do expect major regression, as Mark pointed out. I don't expect a 12 and 14. And they were incredibly healthy last year, especially on defense. Mac missed about a quarter of the year, or at least wasn't Mac for about a quarter of the year. But other than that, they were very healthy.

Yeah, I think to me, the best argument against the Bears is just I think the NFC has so many good teams that you shake it all up. You just look at 10, 11 teams where four to five of them are going to be left out of the playoffs, and their fans are going to be pissed. Like, there's expectations. They're pretty high for about 11 teams that where, if they don't make the playoffs, people are going to be mad. And the Bears, to me, are in the toughest division in the toughest conference. Wes, why don't you give us your pick?

Well, there was, out of all the playoff teams, there was one team that stuck out like a sore thumb to me as the obvious choice, and it's the Houston Texans. They, according to Warren Sharp of Sharp football, they faced only two quarterbacks last year have finished above average and success rate. They played the easiest schedule of quarterbacks in the last four-plus years. They faced nine backups or rookies at quarterback, and they had the NFL's easiest overall schedule. This year, they're projected to have the hardest schedule in the NFL.

They're facing Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady, Andrew Luck, Drew Breeze, Philip Rivers, Cam Newton, Matt Ryan. And they're the only one of these playoff teams with two major glaring weak spots, the offensive line and the secondary. that secondary a little bit was covered up by the fact that they faced so many bad quarterbacks last year but they weren't good last year and I think they got worse this offseason and those two glaring weak spots they have are the two weak spots that are hardest to fill by rookies you put an offensive lineman rookie and a cornerback rookie they're usually going to

struggle in their first years I just see this as a threadbare roster they have some stars that can elevate the team and that's how they win games but I don't see them this as a as a playoff team so who takes their spot Cleveland Browns there it is somebody had to say it I was hoping Mark Wood I mean on my paper I have something very similar you do you have exactly that it's just that I it feels so obvious for me to go there and I'm a little I'm trying to but you simmer down on the joy the moment there's already this Brown's exhaustion that I feel nationally which is tedious to me so I'm trying to you know I'm not jumping on the bandwagon in some sort of zeal up Is that how it's pronounced it?

I pronounce it. See a lot. Everyone else pronounce this word. It's completely differently on the show. Oxnard. Also, Matt Kaleel, I can't believe that a... He's their left tackle. I can't believe that a Super Bowl hopeful is what the Texans think they are

is entering a season with him as they're starting... By the way, I don't know who the GM is. I guess is Bill O'Brien. Go call the Redskins. It is Bill O'Brien. Trent Williams. I mean, not officially, but yeah, it is. Trent Williams is there to be had.

and if you fancy yourself a contender. $40 million in cap room and clownies out there unsigned and use that cap room. Use the cat room, cap room give up. I don't know. What's it going to cost you?

A second round pick? Maybe a third? Maybe a third and a fourth or something. Do it because you can't leave Watson. This guy has gotten absolutely destroyed, especially last year. You like set records in the beating that he took. Most sex taken since 2006.

And the hits were off the charts too. Yes. And here's another weak spot. But if you take out Deshaun Watson's runs, the Texans would have finished dead last in rushing DVOA per football outsiders. And they're one injury away in the backfield of having literally nothing. And yet if you're a Texan's fan, I agree with you, by the way, they would have been very close to the top of my list of the teams that fall off. But if you're a Texan's fans, you can make an argument, like the receiver group of Kiki. I love Kiki Kutte.

Right, and Will Fuller is healthy. Like, that's the best receiver group they ever had. You have Watson. You have Watt fully healthy coming into his season. and I want to be a billionaire mode. There's recipes there. And it was last off season. But I still agree with you because that division, another division where I think there's no easy games in that division and you could see them going two and four.

We were killing Houston's floor last last off season two. And it's not the same. It's gotten worse in some areas. But that was the concern they could be a playoff team or they could be four and 12. They were 12 and 4 last year. They were 11 and 5. 11 and 6. You guys make good points, by the way.

But, you know, every once in a while on the show, you've got to just go sit on a mountain, get your sword and shield out and just fight up there. So I'm just going to stay on Texans Mountain and you guys are going to keep coming up. You've been the Texans guy. Interesting stance for me. You got like the catapult thing with a rock on it. Like you guys, you got the arrows with a fire. You've been right more than not. Bill O'Brien's had a winning season and end the playoffs every year that his quarterback didn't get hurt.

This also stems. It hasn't been a great team, but they made the plan. This stems from a Dan, I believe it was an article that you wrote where, in Houston. talk radio was tracking you down because you destroyed the Texans and like they were the whole city was after you so it was many years ago mark you know the way that bill brian found be in the worst division in football that's the way this is what i'm talking about you don't play blake boris twice here anymore because he's not that great of a coach wait a second he beat out your colts for the division title last year and then got smoked by my colts in the playoff i'm just saying though

that game 16 games they were the better team it was a tough game no i don't think so all right I'll throw another one out there. By the one thing, I was looking at football outsiders or the Almanac. Look at you. And, yeah, see, preparation for a show. Everybody should look into it. You know, they're not as bullish on the Browns. I was surprised.

They see them and their projections, Greg and I were talking about, they have them. Usually they're a little modest with, you're not going to see a lot of projected for 13.2 wins. But they have them as an eight-win team. And they cited, yes, the offensive. line, which you've talked about a lot, Mark, but also that the defense specifically, they were takeaway machines last year. And if the one thing in all these, and Bill Barnwell wrote a piece on ESB, and that was in a similar realm to what we're talking about right now, teams that will regress and get better. Two things that don't carry over is turnover rate. That very rarely can

you do the same thing two years in a row if you did it really well, and record in close games. Right. So the teams and the Cowboys, he picks. as a regression team, because I believe they were eight and two in those such games. Those things tend to balance out cosmically, and the Browns, for those reasons, they saw as a five-o-old team. I totally agree. Can I make one quick counter to that? Please. Look at games where I think they had like six turnovers in the week one tie with the Steelers,

where those turnovers didn't generate or turn into wins. And Hugh Jackson, before he was fired, lost so many close games. I mean, they lost games they should have won. They lost games because of their kicker. So it's not like they're one of those teams that out of their seven wins, they all came in these fluky last second pick six type scenarios. So the eight wins is not crazy. You can also compensate for some of that regression by adding talents such as

Olivier Vernon, Sheldon Richardson, greedy Williams. Like the other, that's a way of offset. Their offensive line, left tackle, right guard, right tackle is highly suspect. Right. There was an article last week in the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Is it time to start worrying about Greg Robinson? I was like, if you're asking the question, it's too late. Why did you go into the season with him as your only option?

I mean, I've been worrying about him. I think we all have, you know, for a years. They have the Houston Texans left tackle from last year as they're back up. And then the other statistic, the data that they say, Greg, this kind of flies in the face of your, Gino Smith, Week 16 and 17, 2014, Hill that you've been dying on for all these years. It was a four game run. I don't know. It's been dying for four years. I went back and watched the tape.

I absolutely will not be betting against Mayfield, but they said that there's no data backing up a strong second half corroborates into a big... The game film backs it up following season. For a team, yeah. Usually the full season sample size is the more trusting data historically. I can still look at the throws he makes and the kind of throws he makes, though. That'll carry over. All I'm saying is I think it's important with the Browns to throw this stuff out there.

So it's not just all like, Browns to the Super Bowl. Well, hold on. First of all, I can't stand people. I don't feel like if I ever done that. No, I'm saying that. I'm trying to counter what's annoying you. Those clowns are driving me nuts because, like, how about go, don't start one and five. Their early schedule is brutal.

Well, I know that as a former Bengals fan. If you're trying to climb out of the cellar and eradicate ghosts, you got to the next year after you finally show progress, do not go O for October. All right, we're creeping up on an hour here. Great, give us one more. I got to sneak one in. Yeah, sleep one and let's get out of here. Because this was inspired by Bill Barnwell, who had his five. teams that are going to improve and get worse this season.

We were going to try to have them on the show. Didn't work out scheduling wise. Just shout out to go by well. He's also on a competing podcast and I'm sure he was thinking himself, I'm not going on the, you know, really. He was taping his. I'm not going on that show because I want to beat that show. He's on a day. He's on a gambling show on ESPN.

We don't gamble. That way he was taping. I don't know why I brought that up. I don't either. It's one of my favorite articles every year. Good job, Bill. And I was going to try to get some spicier ones, but to me I'll take the easiest ones now that left on the board

because you guys have taken to them. To me, the Seahawks are almost the most obvious answer here. The defense, the defensive talent is just not great. I don't really trust the offensive coaching staff. You have Russell Wilson, but if you just stack up their rosters and you put that on most teams, like that looks like a six, seven win, eight win, you know, team at bass. I give Pekar a lot of credit, but in that conference,

I'm not really feeling the Seattle Seahawks. We didn't feel them last August either. I did. Had them in the playoffs. Except for you. Oh, that's true. That's true. This time around,

though, I just think the roster is even worse than it was. They have injuries. The defensive line, especially, I don't like. And then I think just people are ignoring the Steelers too much. Any team that has been Rathesberger and that continuity on offense. And overall, I really like the defensive talent. Like, they haven't performed as consistently as you would like. But for the most part, they've been a pretty.

pretty good defense. I think they've got very good players. They've got the best quarterback in that division, you know, until proven otherwise, I believe. And to me, they should be one of the AFC Super Bowl favorites. And they're just kind of not a fun team to talk about right now. You should Pittsburgh? Pittsburgh. Yeah. Put them in. I think that's fair. So you're not swapping them. You're just throwing them. No, I know. I know. The Steelers are a seventh NFC playoff team in this exercise. Be easy to take the Ravens out with all the Seahawks and the Steelers. Unless the Seahawks reach in the A.C. I'm taking out the Texans, and I'll probably take out, I haven't really decided.

In Greg's world, the Seahawks are still in the AFC. Okay. That's why. I didn't know you had to do it that way. Chargers were next up on my AFC. Chargers would probably be where I would go next. Although the Ravens, I think just because they're in that division, it's going to be tricky. I doubt this was addressed on Monday show, Wes, but I think maybe a correction is an order.

We talked about D.K. Oh, yeah, that was my fault. I got duped. Yeah, there was, we were talking about, you know, whether or not Seahks were putting too many eggs in the Metcalf basket as a rookie, you know, the guy that almost fell out of the second round. Wes, you had mentioned that he had been asking for pictures and practice and size order and that was rubbing some people a long way, but that was actually not a real thing.

No, I thought, I got duped by, basically there's a new site that is like... Somebody tweeted me this, so I thought we should bring it up. It's like the onion for rhodo world blurbs, and I fell hookline and sinker for it. I have since been in contact with some of the people who run that site. And they are friends of our show. Oh, they are. I thought you were going to give them a peace of your mind the way you're setting that up. It's the guys from the fantasy.

The guys who did the Fantasyland podcast about my cancer. They sent something to me about that. It made the Reddit port. I didn't want to bother you with it. I thought we just let it lie. I thought in fairness, and in no way West of the. to blow up your spot. But in fairness to D.K. Metcalfe, we're not the National Inquiry here.

We didn't want to draw out that, you know. Absolutely. I was wrong for even bringing it up, and I apologize to D.K. McKeth and all Seahawks fans. We are not the Weekly World News. Remember that weekly world news? Remember the Weekly World News had like Bat Boy, has been found, like, every week? Male baby, born pregnant, you know, typically with that was a common theme. Yeah.

All right. That's it. That was true, by the way. that baby was pregnant, which was the first. That boy? Well, no, this was a separate baby born, a male baby born pregnant. True. Male baby born pregnant.

Tough break. A lot of red tape. All right. We'll be back on Friday with another incredible cunning episode of the Around the NFL podcast. So make sure you check that out. And yeah, we have a lot coming up this season. Again, check out the Around the NFL subreddit and leave. iTunes reviews and leave five stars and do all that good stuff that helps the show.

And hopefully we'll have some announcements coming up about the 2019 season. Exciting times for both the members of the Around the NFL podcast, including the wonderful Ricky Hollywood and all the listeners. Thanks, Dan. These are the good times, right? They are. They are. You can hear it in her voice. Pretty good.

It's swept up. It's pretty good. Pretty good. Pretty good. I just want to say real quick when you guys were talking Cowboys, I was at Cowboys camp yesterday. Uh-huh. And every pass was to Randall Cobb or Jason Witt.

So watch out for those connections. Just a heads up. Insider. Love it. I love it. Randall Cobb. Let me write this on Jason Witt. You know what?

You ever heard of Jason Wynn? Save that for the fantasy corner because that's coming up later this month. In fact, we got to get on that. Maybe next week. Well, the fantasy extravaganza or the week after. We'll figure that out. See, that's the stuff we'll do after we sign off. So let's, let's end the show.

We've got to work out the schedule. Shuttages and end when we signed off. We grind here. Dan Hans is signing off for Quiet Storm, the mailman, the old boss, and Ricky Hollywood behind the glass. Till Friday. Thank you. This is an IHeart podcast.