NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Haunting NFL Stories, Pittsburgh’s Biggest Problem and Ravens-Dolphins Preview

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

Gregg Rosenthal and Jourdan Rodrigue preview the Week 9 Thursday Night Football matchup between the Ravens and Dolphins. First, Gregg and Jourdan get you caught up on news from around the NFL including the Saints naming Tyler Shough their Week 9 starter (02:09), Patrick Surtain II's status (04:30), Brian Thomas Jr.'s trade potential (07:15) and more. After the break, Gregg and Jourdan tell you what is haunting people around the NFL including why penalties are haunting Ben Johnson (15:53), the Steelers defense is haunting Mike Tomlin (20:45) and the Colts are haunting Gregg (33:40). Finally, a preview of the Ravens on the road to take on the Dolphins on Thursday Night Football (41:20). Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet,

we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL fantasy football. football podcast on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and

NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome.

to NFL Daily. I'm Greg Rosenthal. And I'm here in the Chris Wesleying podcast studio. Surprised by everything about this intro. And I love it. Yes. It's going to be a spooky version of NFL Daily, a.k.a. the latest meeting of Honkers Anonymous.

myself and Jordan Roderick. The haunted honkers. Yeah, we're here. We're here in the studio and we're going to be talking about what we're haunted by a little later in the show. Honking Anonymous would have been the better title. We both like to honk. I never say stuff like I'm just like immediately credit. Yeah. We both, you know, if we were basketball players, Jordan, we'd both have high usage rates.

Colleen will be back. You know, I know that. I know the schedule has been a little crazy on the see you next Tuesdays, but I'm really excited the next couple of weeks. We have big shows planned, Colleen, back in the mix for those. And yes, QB Island, just two weeks from now. And I noticed it's been pretty stable. If you look at the players on QB Island, they're all playing great other than Lamar Jackson, who's been hurt, but he's coming back on Thursday.

And he's still Lamar freaking Jackson. So we'll talk about the Thursday night football game in just a little bit. The city is a buzz with Dodgers glee. We all stayed up and watched the game. Electric 18 innings. I was telling you before the show, I went to bed the minute that Show Hey, Connie said, I would like to be asleep as soon as possible.

It's a good sign. If he says it, you should listen to that man. I was at the last 18-inning World Series game. So it's a reminder. It doesn't mean just because you win that one that it's going to carry over. Let's talk some news. Let's talk some NFL.

We have a decent amount of news right off the top of the show. Then we'll get to that segment and TNF. Let's start with the latest quarterback change. Tyler Shuck will start difficult first matchup against the Los Angeles Rams defense. Been playing well lately. Good pass rush, obviously. The timing does make sense. Even though it's unfair, it's like, you know, you tell children very often, life is not fair.

I don't think this changes fair to Spencer Rattler, and yet I totally understand it. I think both things can be true. Multiple things can be true. We love to say that in here. This is a tough draw to get for your first NFL start, if you're Tyler Shuck. Because, as you mentioned, it's not just that the Rams front is front sevens playing very, very well and really aggressive rushing the past. They're stopping the run really well. You know, they're also coming off a bye week.

So not only that, but they are rested. So this is a tough draw if you're Tyler Shuck. I thought he looked good. When I went to rewatch, you know, live, I was kind of looking at results in thinking about the three pretty off target throws that I think Tyler Shuck is going to have. I don't think he's as accurate a quarterback as, as Rattler, for instance. But I think he's going to have more high level throws. And I thought he was relatively decisive in that game.

They moved the ball a little bit. I get it. He's your number 40 overall pick. The Rattler thinks things because I think he played really well for six weeks, but looking big picture for the Saints. I think they kind of got exactly what they needed to out of the Rattler evaluation. I think he earned himself a solid eight to 10 years in the league

by the way he played these first six weeks and he's going to be a good backup for either the Saints or another team or maybe get a chance to start somewhere else down the line. I think they learned that about him and now you find out about the second round. He could even become the new Prime Meridian for backup quarterbacks eventually in his career trajectory.

I could see it happening. I really could. I think he gives you enough to potentially be on that type of trajectory. The weird thing is I felt like he had sort of a Kellyn Moore governor on him the whole time. Like he wasn't playing his truly freestyling way of football, but he did it really well. And then I think he got a little too amped up for that Caleb game. And it just went a little south, but he didn't even play that that bad. It's just time to see the young kid.

Let's talk about who's not going to be on the field this week, including Patrick Tertan. He is week to week with a peck strain. The insiders did that thing where they were like, this is good news. It's like, no, it's not good news. Like, that would be very painful if you had a peck strain and he's missing games. And multiple insiders, Ian Rappaport included,

said he could go to IR, which is usually a pretty strong indication. He will go to IR at some point, I'm guessing later this week. So, you know, the Broncos without CERTAN, it'll be an interesting test of a really good defense, a good secondary, but removing the defensive player of the year.

Yeah, well, I thought that they, I thought Van Joseph had a good schematic plan based on, you know, missing him in and out of the game throughout the first half before he finally left the game for good after that first half. You know, and we were worried about this because when I saw that shot of him walking to the locker room,

he wasn't grabbing his shoulder. He was grabbing right to the outside of his armpit, which indicated that it was going to be a pectoral issue. I think where you're relieved, everything's relative, is it's not torn. If it's torn, obviously you're just not coming back. At least there's a chance, especially potentially activation before the postseason.

And if he does go on IR, that this a strain or a sprain can heal a little bit. But it's the safety. I thought the safety's played fine. The problem that they're going to have is that everybody's going to throw at Riley Moss and try to draw these penalties. And also that Jaday Barron, we saw really good stuff from him last week. But that hasn't really been consistent throughout the entire season. So while I do think they got really good performance in light of the sudden change

circumstances of having your best defensive player on and off the field repetitively through the first half. I thought they looked really solid. And having a whole week to plan for this, yes, there's a drop off without Patrick Sertan, but I do think that Vance Joseph's got some good scheme

to help play around that. It's funny because Riley Moss might get targeted less now because he's the best quarterback. People see the flags flying every single time and they're like still going to try to get this guy to P.I. I loved Beaumani Jones's take last week. that the pass interference against Riley Moss at the end of that game against the Giants

was racist, that they just, they didn't believe that Riley could play such good coverage. It was a terrible call. But he's the best cornerback probably on the team. They brought in Chris Abrams Drain for a lot of that game. And then you mentioned today Barron, which people probably haven't been tracking as much, but was a really highly thought of first round pick added to a deep secondary, lost the slot cornerback job pretty early in the season to Jaquan McMillan. hasn't really played that much.

So he might get in the mix a lot more, too. And they've got a lot of big games coming up on the schedule, including the Kansas City Chiefs in two weeks. Looking forward to that. We got the trade deadline coming up. We did the most interesting potential trade targets. Me and Nick shook. We had a couple receivers on that list.

Check out Monday Night's show if you want that. That's after the Chiefs Commanders recap. Brian Thomas Jr. was not on that list because we wanted to go with the most realistic ones. and this one felt a little far-fetched although possible interesting Liam Cohen addressed the report from the athletics Diana Rossini that Brian Thomas Jr. could potentially be available. We have no plans on moving Brian Thomas Jr. at all.

Saw something about that over the weekend. But I mean, I talked to him for a good amount of time this morning and it's just a good reset for a lot of these guys to come in fresh four and three with everything ahead of us regardless good batter or indifferent what's happened in the first seven games we all have an opportunity to

write a narrative we own the narrative and so I got a lot of confidence in them I really do believe that we can turn the corner and get better in the past game that way not a lot surprises me from the insiders but when I saw that note in Diana's

column over the weekend and she usually has some pretty good nugs in there I thought, where is that coming from? That's fascinating. That is not what the Jaguars obviously would want out there at a precarious point in their season. Well, and it's why he responded that way. Maybe.

I mean, sometimes coaches are two-faced or sometimes there's different parts of the organization that have different agendas. Either way, it got out there. You're right, it probably wouldn't be from the Jaguars. They would not want that to be out there. And he said he addressed it, you know, with Brian Thomas Jr. personally for a while.

but not out there for nothing. So I find that interesting. It has to come from somewhere. Maybe it's other teams trying to... Maybe a motivational tactic. I don't know. There's a lot of different reasons why there's a lot of different things

at a lot of different times before the trade deadline. Brian Thomas Jr. is a second year player, though. Would he hate being traded away from a guy who just throws him a bunch of hospital balls in a system that's not quite working for him? man, if he was available, that would be fascinating. I find this Jaguar team still as fascinating.

Well, he's saying he's not available. He's pretty much shutting the door. He said he had no plans. I've heard a lot of coaches say, we have no plans, which is, to me, the ultimate 95% he's here, but I can always say plans change. Jared Goff is our quarterback right now. Right now is even more dangerous.

See, that's where you'd mark it down from like 95% to like 50%. You probably get a first round pick. For Brian Thomas Jr.? Hell yeah. You get a first round plus. I'd still, I'd still evaluate him as like a top 10 to 12 wide receiver, quote and quote, asset in the league just because of the contract and because of his age. But it is fascinating that you have to look at both Trevor Lawrence and Brian Thomas

Jr. and say they were playing better last year. Weird. There's a lot of good stuff in that. The Roger McCreary kind of, she had that, Diana was circulating the Roger McCreary reporting and he did get traded. The Rams picked him up. The Rams needed cornerback help with Akello Witherspoon on injured reserve right now. They're hoping it's short term, short-ish term. It's like a 12-week recovery process for Akella Witherspoon. Their coverages have been really dictated by that injury.

And Darius Williams is a little banged up. So trading for Roger McCreary was a thing that they had to do. Why are the Titans just desperate to get off useful cornerbacks? They traded him for nothing. It was a fifth to sixth round swap. I didn't mention it very briefly on Monday night. but I found that mystifying. I know he's coming to the end of his contract,

but he's a good young player. The last good young player they traded away was Jarvis Brownlee, who immediately became like one of the Jets better players in the secondary. So I just don't get, what's the point of trading if you don't get literally anything back? You mentioned IR and injuries for the Rams. The Rams put Tutu Atwell on IR, and I mentioned that in context with something you noted,

how players can be traded off. IR, which not that interested in Atwell, who could be a rotational piece for someone, but Trevon Diggs was placed on IR for the Cowboys after what was reported as a concussion, and he's still in the concussion protocol. But after a week being out with a concussion, then they placed him on injured reserve. And Jerry Jones indicated that Diggs needed to be in better shape in a, press conference after last Cowboys game. Jerry Jones just said some shit.

What? Yeah. And, sorry to the... Look, they indicated that, look, maybe he wasn't physically ready to be back from his torn ACL. Michael Parsons, for instance, was asked about it. And he said he thought the Cowboys really did Chavon Diggs dirty by essentially

forcing him to get ready for week one when he, physically wasn't ready. He's been on the field all year. And we say all this because Trevondix was a first team all pro four years ago. And then a good player the year after that. He did back up that season. And this contract and this injury has just been fascinating. So weird and not good for the Cowboys defense. And I do think the Cowboys could potentially take advantage of that rule that you can trade players on IR with Dig specifically. Yeah. And it's interesting. You've seen some Difference-making players move that way. Akeep Talib was traded, you know,

2018 after that rule change. So, yeah, we'll keep an eye on that. You mentioned the peck strain being a relief for Patrick Sartan. Unfortunately, no relief for the Bills and Ed Oliver. He has a torn biceps. It's a bummer. He's just the biggest difference maker they have up front right now. Joey Bosa's been okay.

They're adding Michael Hoyt and Ogonjobie into the mix, but that's a tough one. because they're very likely not going to get him back this year. Maybe there's some scenario if they make the Super Bowl deep in the playoffs that it becomes a question. But barring a trade, and I think they are about as likely as literally any team in the NFL to make an eye-opening trade, and I think defensive line would maybe be their number one target.

Yeah, I mean, it should be there down to it. And listen, like, Michael Hoyt's a good player. Larry Ogunjobie's a good player, has had some really good years. And, but they still, they're so thin along that defensive line. It's like Dionne Walker, who's showed flashes, got some stuff to him, Greg, showed flashes, but you can't account for depth and you need more of it. So that's where I would say, yeah, I would think the bills are on the phones right now trying to figure out what to do next.

Yeah, and that trade deadline is a week from today. So we got a lot going on next week. We'll do some mid-season content. We'll do some trade deadline recap to be fun. wrapping up the news before we take a little break. Just some quick notes, Carson Swessinger, who I had as the defensive rookie of the year so far

has a high ankle sprained, reportedly not a particularly bad version of that, although I don't think there's any great versions and they're in a buy, so maybe he doesn't miss too much time. He can still go get that award. You mentioned the McCreery trade. Shamar Turner,

who is a high draft pick for the Bears, was getting snaps there in their defensive line rotation, has a torn ACL. He is out for the season. My Patriots signed Marcus Jones. We've been talking about the breakout season for Marcus Jones, who's got a three-year deal, good business by them, not just great on special teams, but really having an awesome

season at cornerback, playing better than Carlton Davis, for instance, who's, you know, getting $17, $20 million a year. And then the Bengals, I'm sorry to bring this up, guys, but they had a player's only defensive meeting. So that's, season's over. Stick a fork in done. As it turns out, you can only somewhat revive your season when you have players-only meetings, but people are either late or don't show up to them. Well, here's the thing, though, the dolphins, glad you mentioned that, they had a lot of those players-only meetings, and then they got blasted by the Browns. And from everything I heard, no players-only meetings the week after. And then now they're back in our lives. All right, let's take a quick break. And

when we come back, we're going to do a segment, what we're hunting. by NFL Daily. We're festive. Hey, this is Matt Jones. And I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel?

That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more.

What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development To team-building philosophies, coaching trends in how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision-makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day.

Plus, we dig into coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a die-hard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant.

And I'm Michael Fiorio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fans. fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Love Halloween week

Love that it's kind of turning into a week Maybe that's because it was on Friday this year But there were a lot of Halloween parties Last weekend It was in New Orleans The Halloween parade Last weekend

Everyone was out in the quarter In their costumes already So this has been A long buildup I'm being neighborhood dad and having everyone come over before we all go out trick-or-treating. So I got to get some stuff. Are you going to wear a costume? I'm not going to wear a costume. I was going to say, let's not kick. Let's not get crazy. I have and I

would. And if someone just like made it very easy for me, came up with a good idea, like that I could execute. Maybe I would do it. I feel like your, I feel like you could come up with some really good ideas that they would be so niche. Like that's, no, I'm not into like being creative. I'm more into like wear something inflatable. Like the wavy arms guy from the car dealership. That was a big one. I need this now. I need to see this. I got some good pictures. It's on the IG.

The segment, what we're haunted by. Maybe what people in the NFL are haunted by. It's a little open-ended. I will let you start. Well, Ben Johnson and the Chicago Bears are absolutely haunted

by all the penalty. Oh, okay. Yes. The penalties, Greg. 64 penalties for 533 total yards. 26 of those are pre-snap penalties. They have a 28 penalty differential on their opponents this season. And those numbers are per Scott Bear and Josh Dubot. And it's staggering. Ben Johnson seems to be closer and closer to his complete breaking point

when it comes to expressing his true internal nerd rage over these penalties and how catastrophic they've been, it's been start, stop, start, stop, start, stop through all of these games. And they're starting to be like the passive-aggressive comment. I mean, I'm making a big deal over it. He's started to crack, I think, a little bit. Let's listen to him. We've been harping on it as a coaching staff.

And when it results in a loss, I think it just magnifies the issue that was at hand. How was that message received by your team leaders, your captains, and then what actions would you like to see them take this week to change those penalties? Yeah, I would like us to stay on sides. So, you know, it's simple. Yeah, it's discipline. You know, I think they're as fed up with it as everyone is in the building. And so they understand it's just not what good football teams do.

And I think they're going to take ownership of it. I think we're going to be just fine. Seems okay. I know. I'm making a thing over it because he's haunted by it. Really, Greg. No, it... He is, though.

It's been consistent. It's been since camp. It's been since OTAs. It's stuff that he was losing his GD mind over on the practice field that still is not fixed. And he's mentioned he's had some pretty loaded comments previous to these most recent ones, just about how, like, they are coaching it the way he wants it to be coached. And there's a little, I think, insinuation that maybe they're being inordinately penalized by officiating and all of these things.

You can't say it out loud, obviously. You get it fine. But there's, it's just, it's a mess. The pre-snap stuff, though, is like, you can only blame yourself, ultimately. And it's a really interesting point to make because I think it's so integral in what they do is all the pre-snap motion and everything.

And I thought it was really interesting. After the biweek, he basically said, okay, we were conservative and didn't essentially run the office. I wanted to run the first month, but now we're going to run it. We're going to do all my stuff. And for the most part, it led to better rushing performance and things looking better when they did get the snap off. But ultimately, yeah, they need that to be the Bears team they want to be.

Here's the good news. They play the Bengals, potentially the worst defense in the league. And then they play the Giants, which shockingly has the worst run defense since at least my subscription for. FDN fantasy allows, which is only to 2017, even worse than the Panthers a week, a year ago. So they have two of the easiest possible matchups the next. That adds to him being haunted by this because these are, if there's, if the only reason that they can't get this offense off the ground finally for good are the self-inflicted penalties,

I mean, I'm just saying the nerd rage. Yes. I love a little nerd rage. Okay. I'm going to go more my own rage. But. it's about Mike Tomlin and it's about this

Pittsburgh Steelers' defense. And I think sometimes it's the ghost of that steel curtain. It's the history of what the Pittsburgh Steelers are supposed to be back in the 1970s. But more than anything,

it's the ghost of what Mike Tomlin said just a couple months ago in August Mike Tomlin said that this could be a historic defense I got some

I got some clown calling me little bro on Twitter being like Tomlin never said that here's the quote Little bro I'm your big bro you're my son no here's Tomlin

we got to write that story but we've got enough We've got enough schematics to do big, big things. And when I say big things, I'm talking about historic things. That's Mike Tomlin on August 12th. Fast forward two and a half months. And their offense is performing better than I expected, better than anyone could have expected.

12th in DVOA, they are more than doing their part. What are they in defense? Number 22 in defensive DVOA, dead last in yards per drive allowed, bro. Get off the field. Meanwhile, you got the Rooney family spending $165 million on this defense. That is more than $25 million more than any other defense in the entire league. What's historic is how poorly they're playing. And I know this is especially tough for you to say because the offense is playing adequately, Greg.

And I know you want to hate. I know you want to be a hater. I am a hater. And that's fine. But this is not just haunting, but downright frightening because you can invest this much, not just money, but personnel and and draft picks and all of these different things. Derek Harmon, first round pick this year. Keanu Benton struggling, second round pick. And it's just not looking like they look slow.

they look older and they don't look like they're evolving. Some of that at the beginning of the year you could blame on injuries. You know, Joey Porter was in and out, junior was in and out of the lineup. And at a certain point, Jalen Ramsey was dealing with a hamstring and all of these different things, Alex Heismuth was out.

You could do that to a point. But now you're getting to the point where there is nowhere else to look and Mike Tomlin is being asked about it. Oh, he's looking elsewhere. Let's actually listen to Mike Tomlin. This was part of his press conference on Tuesday.

We certainly need to be better in third down than we've been, but it doesn't necessarily mean dramatic changes in terms of schematics and things of that nature. Why not? I mean, that was what got me in that quote from before was because of our schematics, because of our players, we can do historic things.

I think their players are really good in the front. Yeah. I don't think it's. It's perfect in the secondary, but I think it's more about the schematics that are the problem. And it bothered me. It's why I'm doing this segment that he opened his press conference today, talking about how frustrating it was that they couldn't put together a complete game plan

and that the offense couldn't finish drives, that they were in third and too long too often, and they settled for too many field goals. And I'm thinking, you're opening that press conference with that when your defense, the one you said was going to be historic, just gave up 90-something points and 900 yards or 60-something points over the last two weeks and 900-something yards like look in the mirror you should change the schematics they've been the same since since he got there yeah and and what I think is probably frustrating to sealers fans right now

and to you as well Greg is that some of the changes that they did make in terms of the personnel and I I do point to that Jalen Ramsey trade or excuse me yeah the Jalen Ramsey trade as one of them is is you get some of these players who are supposed to be and no he's not playing like vintage jalen ramsie like let's just be clear about that but he has made splash plays he will have games especially when he is i think set up for what he's more able to do now at 31 years old um play in the slot and kind of be that like tilt coverages and leverage different mathematical matchups and and at the beginning when they when this trade happened it was all the sort of the running line and myself included was this is this is among the multiple

different gestures or signals that you're getting from this Mike Tomlin led Steelers defense that they are going to take another step in a different schematic direction. They are going to evolve a little bit and the production has not matched it. No, and I think when he's pointing out, you know, them struggling to get off the field, it's because good coaches, I think, know what is coming. It is a lot of the same man coverage, blitz type of concepts. And if you wanted to really simplify it, I think it's more of an execution defense.

It's more about our players are better than your players. We're not trying to fool you. And it reminds me of the old John McKake quote, the old Buccaneers coach, when he was asked what he thought of his offense's execution, and he said, I'm in favor it. This defense. It's not executing.

Very Halloween. Not executing. Chop its head off. I mean, I love Mike Tomlin. He's such a good coach, but I think Dave Damashik has done a good job pointing out. Like, there's nowhere left to point. Like, it's always the offensive coordinator. It's always the offensive line.

And I think right now, Tomlin is a big part of the problem. All right, give me what you're haunted by. I think that somebody is being haunted. by some previously very strong comments that were correct made last fall. That is Kevin O'Connell on The Rich Eisen Show. And he said these incredibly truthful words, I believe organizations fail young quarterbacks before young quarterbacks before young quarterbacks fail organizations.

Very true, right? And I think credit to Kevin O'Connell for not only speaking up saying something very plainly and very honestly that's been an issue across the league all 32 for for years, for decades at this point. His comments were not and are not wrong, but they loom extra large right now

as the Vikings walk a pretty impossible haunting tightrope with their quarterback situation in light of the Carson Wentz season ending labrum and arm socket injuries. And JJ McCarthy seemingly returning from a high ankle sprain, which was the

reason why Carson Wentz a.k.a. the human shield was playing through those injuries to give J.J. McCarthy enough time, according to Kevin O'Connell and the organization, to return in a safe and healthy way. For me, multiple things are true here based on all the reporting and all the on the record and radio comments and probably continued questions and comments all throughout this week from Kevin O'Connell, from Carson Wentz, from everybody involved in the situation. it seems like he was really pushing to play through this injury, these multiple injuries.

And that can be true while also teams don't protect players from themselves historically. And it's also true that in this case, the Vikings could not really protect the player who they have spent less resources and invested time in from himself. The lesser of two evils in their minds seem to be okay, let him play and protect our future investment. That's also failing a quarterback. That's failing Carson Wentz.

Well, maybe it's in the words there. He's okay failing older quarterbacks. He just doesn't want to fail the young one. I think you're right. And I think if you go back to what could be haunting this team, it's their off-season plan. Yeah. Because Carson Wentz wasn't there.

You know, they wanted to have Sam Howell. I was forgetting. I was like, who was their backup quarterback two months ago. It was Sam Howell, you know, who they traded for. That was a bust. I think leaving Wentz out there. was brutal when you could have played Max Brosmer last week. Just at least at some point in that particular game, that happened.

I don't know what happened behind the scenes, but at some point the decision was made, Carson Wentz is going to be put down for the year. That might have been Carson Wentz is like, okay, you used me. I'm good here. See ya. You know, because he can't physically play, Greg.

We just literally just saw him do it. So he could in theory. put off that surgery. Like I said at the top of these comments, like everything that everyone, including Carson Wentz, is saying out of Minnesota right now is he was pushing to play through these injuries, right? So that can be true while also this can be a total mess and an organizational failure at the same time. Both of those things can be true because a player will always want to play in an organization will nine times out of 10 not protect the player from himself, right? It's very rare. Both of those things are true. It's a fact of the league. You

don't have to like it. Fact of the league. But the thing is, is this franchise, because you're now trotting out, you have two quarterbacks on the roster, J.J. McCarthy and Max Brosner. They're probably going to add another guy, but it's hard because there's not a lot of people with scheme or system familiarity. And then you're putting more resources into a quarterback room that you already reshuffled right before the start of training camp. You're throwing whoever's out there behind a bad offensive line that's not playing to the level of the investment. And some of that's injury related as well. But an offensive line, not to the level of expectation or investment. And also a run game, not to the level of expectation.

or investment. And when you have all of that, Carson Wentz happens to be the first casualty, the first real, like, noticeable casualty of all of this, but you have to get this right because you have gained the reputation through your very true and correct actions with previous quarterbacks as well as, you know, your reputation and your very correct words, you've gained this reputation as a guy who gets quarterbacks and is the quarterback whisper. And like, to reiterate, he earned that reputation. But it's dangling kind of precariously right now as those words as honest as they were

kind of come back to haunt him and the organization because you could argue that whether or not they got it right with J.J. McCarthy, watching what happened to Carson Wentz, the rest of the system is not succeeding around the quarterback. And, yeah, there's nowhere to hide. I think they were trying to set up J.J. in the best chance for success

by making sure he's 100% back. Look, do I think if he had played lights out the first two weeks of the season, he would have sat as long? I don't. I just don't. Yeah. And a lot of people are forgetting that, that he did not look good,

but for that one quarter. Right. So I think that was a big part of why he had to wait to start longer, but at some point, you know, they had to play him. They would have been playing him at sound, I think this week,

whether Carson Wentz was hurt or not. And it's going to be tough. you got the lions and the ravens right out the gate for J.J. McCarthy. I am curious who else they'll bring on there. But it's also an opportunity. That's a great thing about the NFL. You're like one week away. Like if they could just somehow beat the lions,

then it's like, none of this mattered. All that really matters is J.J. McCarthy's development for the rest of this season. And that quarter against the Bears was enough of a wild card that I wouldn't rule, I wouldn't rule it out. He's got some gamer in him if he's feeling healthy. Like, I just wouldn't rule it out.

At the same time, the lions are a wagon on both sides of the ball. And also, like, again, this, this roster, this, I mean, the defense is not playing up to the level of expectation, the offensive line is not playing up to the level of expectation. All of these things preseason that they tried to construct in order to basically plug in and give this quarterback like a crescendo through the course of the season. It's just not happening. Vikings fans probably don't want to hear, but I'm, I'm with them kind of where I was with

Drake May in the offseason and like, all that matters. is J.J. McCarthy. They're probably not making the playoffs this year. But if J.J. McCarthy has a positive next nine games, that's kind of all that matters for the Vikings. And so that will start on Sunday. And we'll preview that game on Wednesday. Can't wait. Colts. Man, I have a lot of regrets about how I evaluated the Colts.

I'm haunted. By many things. When it comes to picks. But the over-under, win totals draft, that's my baby. Hadn't had a loss in four years of doing it. And my number two pick this year,

partly because Nick Wright took the over on the Chiefs, which is looking good. My number two pick this year was under on the Colts seven and a half. Not only that a couple weeks ago, I flipped my pick on game debut from the Colts to the Chargers, I mean, in that game.

Just absolutely stupid. and there were so many reasons to see what was coming with this Colts team. First of all, that was like the most obvious everyone's piling on type of pick. I don't want to consider myself a contrarian, but I do find myself kind of making picks like that. So for me to just go like a lemming and fall right off the cliff, do exactly what Vegas wanted me to do and take the Colts so early like they were going to be some sort of disaster based off vibes, whatever. That was stupid.

I should have seen what was there, which is weirdly a win-now team full of incredible continuity and really good on the offensive line. Now, did we know Tanner Bordellini and Matt, Matt Gonzalez, I believe he pronounced his name, were going to be as good on the interior? Probably not, but they played pretty well at the end of last season. So there were signs there. But in terms of the weaponry, they've all been in Shane Steichen system now for years. In terms of, terms of their defense, like, it is a veteran group. Zaire Franklin and Grover Stewart and DeForest Buckner and Kenny Moore and they bring in Charverius War.

This is not a young team. Jonathan Taylor, like, if this didn't work this year, obviously they were going to blow it up in terms of the GM and the coach. But also, I think, I sort of forgot the players that have been there have been there for a while and they're good players. And Stuyken has proven he can win games without great quarterback play. And so there was a lot leading up to this season. I think that made us just off target that I should have been able to see.

I should have been a seer. And more than anything, once it started happening, I really should have just trusted it. Because I do trust it. I don't think they're going anywhere. I don't think that means they go 15 and 2. But I think they're the second most likely team in the AFC to make the Super Bowl. And I think the offense is going to be a wagon, as you say, all season long.

They are. Jonathan Taylor having the season that he's having. I know we're too early. It's not even technically mid-season. We can hand out some awards next week. So we could say. MVP type of season. You could say like that he would be your offensive player of the year so far.

He's playing incredibly well. They're explosive. They are getting, you know, their success rate on conversions is like some over 50% and then some, it's incredible. They are, they're fantastic. And I think a lot of what was. maybe the bias that a lot of us, myself included,

came into the season with was this sense that Chris Ballard was just going to do the stubborn thing again and that kind of carry Shane Steichen along in the undertow with him in terms of sticking

with Anthony Richardson and trying to make that work because of the investment and because of the evaluation that they had on him because the investment they had made into him. And that's not what happened. Instead, they pivoted from

a decision that you know, I think, say they pivoted into the right one, whether or not we still know what Anthony Richardson can eventually be. We don't, I don't think. But you can say they pivoted into the correct decision. And they did it kind of without that fear of embarrassment, I guess, of the first decision that they had made to invest in him in the first place. And I think that it's like, we should have just read the tea leaves with Daniel Jones choosing to go there, Despite the fact that Minnesota, he had been, he had just been in Minnesota with Kevin O'Connell. And does he get credit? Does O'Connell get credit for helping to restart Daniel Jones' career or blame that they could have just paid him $16 million this year?

Also could have paid Sam Darnold, just saying. Right, but they could have paid Daniel Jones a backup type of contract. He's sort of in between, but they could have paid him $25 million less than Sam Darnold and kept Daniel Jones. I'm going to say I give him more blame than credit. Well, I'm going to say I give Daniel Jones credit for going where he could see a roster and believe it would be successful. And so like, we should have all followed Daniel Jones, honestly. But I will say, I'm still stuck on you saying you're not a contrarian. Like I got stuck on that at the beginning of your comments.

No, I said I would not want to. I'm like still stuck. No, what I was saying was I, which is kind of a funny thing for a contrarian to say. I would not want to think of myself that way. But I'm open. Don't put on the internet that I'm a contrarian. Exactly. I'm basically saying that I recognize that in myself.

All right, one more thing that's haunting you. Well, you know, I'm an optimist. So I picked something that is hauntingly beautiful, like a treasured spirit that's come into your life or a treasured soul from your past. This is the Chargers offense, specifically out of their heavier personnel groupings with Joe Altback and activating Scott Matlock at Fullback.

and activating all of these different tight ends, including Omari and Gadsen, in the passing game so you can stay in the heavier personnel. Kamani Vidal, 23 of his carries, on his 23 carries last week, 20 of them were out of a heavier personnel. So that's either with a fullback added or multiple tight ends added,

or six offensive linemen and a fullback added in Scott Matlock. Jared Patterson, not on his 11 carries 10 of them were in heavier personnel this is all according to next gen stats the chargers had 207 total rushing yards including 62 by justin herbert who clearly feels more confident using his legs and especially when they can block it up for him and especially when they've got these like human sequoia trees up front blocking for him like i mentioned you can activate actual past catching tight ends and stay in your head. heavier personels. I just got all tingly, you know, watching it. And especially there was like

a second and six where it was all of them lined up and Scott Matlock was in and they had two tight ends and they had a running back as well as the fullback. And it was just this wall of people. It's everywhere. It's your league. Your league right now. Hauntingly beautiful. The Eagles had 12 snaps of six offensive linemen. Everyone's used an extra offensive line. And they're just using, they call it a tight end, but it was just Patrick. It's like basically just another tight end. The Texans went nuts cranking up more six offensive linemen snaps in that game almost than the rest of the season combined.

Patrick Ricard returned for the Ravens, who I kind of feel like is an offensive lineman. So, yeah, heavy personnel is happening everywhere. It is. All right. Let's talk Thursday night football. Okay, these are two teams, the Baltimore Ravens and the Miami Dolphins. on Thursday night football who are coming off

maybe the most encouraging games each one of them has had all season long who like a lot of the teams we just talked about were kind of haunted by backup quarterback decisions okay maybe the dolphins weren't but they did elevate Quinn Ewers one week

and he made it all the way to the throw of the year candidacy and now for some reason Zach Wilson is back to be in the backup but no I really do think like the Vikings are haunted by their backup quarterback situation the Giants for making the wrong I think to start the season. And I think the Ravens for signing Cooper Rush to $7 million when you boy,

Tyler Huntley was right there all along, gets a big win last week. And I just think there was a lot of encouraging factors for Lamar Jackson to return to. They did confirm Lamar spoke to the media. He'll be out there, kind of a hometown game for him. And all they need for Lamar Jackson to be successful is an average defense in the last two weeks. They've been average. All the numbers would say they've been right around average and a good enough running game. And the running numbers have been average, average success rate over the last two weeks.

And when you add Lamar Jackson to that, it becomes exceptional. Yeah, I am really eager to see what this will look like because we noted this on the recap show on Sunday that Todd Munkin called a better game. And this was important for him to do because there had been reports locally of just dissatisfaction around. the building of how it was going to that point. He called a better game. And he also called a game that you could see Lamar Jackson dropping into and elevating, obviously, the quarterback position in doing so. But then also you could see all the pieces and how they would pertain to a

Lamar Jackson-led offense as well, obviously with a huge improvement of quarterback because this is Lamar Jackson we're talking about. So I'm really curious to see what this looks like. Having Patrick Cardback is sneaky huge for them too and activating some of the ways that they want to run the ball and some of the ways that they want to disguise their run-pass looks as well. And having this defense, you know, moving the safeties

a little bit, Aloha Gilman coming in and adding to the group and then being able to move Kyle Hamilton a little bit again. We saw this work last year. It's almost like, would you just want to start the season that way? I know they were limited in personnel so maybe couldn't. But it's like you could start to see

maybe this Ravens team is at least in theory or in ideation what you're seeing them do schematically. on the field, maybe turn a little bit of a corner. You can kind of like look at the snap counts. It's as easy as that to me and see who's playing. And it's like, yeah, Gilman's now playing every snap. And Roquan

Smith, who did not look right early in the year and then they sat him down and that did seem to be one of those injury situations where it was like, you're not helping us playing through the injury that you have. Let's sit you down. They get through the buy. He has his best game of the season by far.

That's a massive deal. Marlon Humphrey is so integral to what they do on defense. And then I even noticed last week, like Mike Green has not been that effective for them as a rookie pass rusher, but they just need him. And he basically was out there every snap. He did have a couple splash plays. I'm not saying he's turned the corner, but he's helped. And it's interesting because I know it's just one week and it might just turn out to be one week. But I do think it's a tougher matchup this week against the dolphins who really showed something a week ago with a lot of diversity in their running game,

certainly to Otung of Iloa's best game of the season. Jalen Waddle's gone 95 yards or more three out of the last four weeks and it might turn into just a blip but that was it, it was a really clean, awesome performance by the dolphins, especially in the way that

they attacked the running game last week. And so I do think it's a tougher matchup than people might realize when they look at a seven and a half point spread on the road. Well, and I think the dolphins would probably prefer to not be looked at too closely because coming in as an underdog is helping them. has helped them. But also, you know, I think a lot of us expected this to be an interim coach by now, possibly even, you know, interim management in the front office as well. And it's not because these guys

are getting a shot genuinely to turn this thing around or so it seems on the surface, right? And so I feel like it's, it's very interesting to me. I actually have not spent a lot of time truly worried about Miami's offense this year, whether it was, yeah, they still, they've, for years, they've had issues in the run game. Like, I won't, I won't say that that's perfect by any means. They need the running game to work better, like it did on Sunday. But in terms of the way to a, for, I mean, a couple of real stinkers of games, but especially last few weeks, playing better, some of the, the vintage sort of timing and

ball handling and, and just different little layers and elements that they add for trickeration, for the handoffs and the misdirection and all of those things, that's there. Jalen Waddle is playing great. Not having Darren Waller, obviously, is a blow. But Jalen Waddle has really been that guy and been that player who it's almost like he's, he's just like shining a little brighter without a Tyreek Hill also demanding some of the targets or needing some of the targets to go his direction because of his pure speed and ability to separate. So this has had to be sort of a rebuilt on the fly a couple of times this year, offense. If Mike McDaniel can just commit, just commit to running the ball. Ollie Gordon, you might really have something in compliment with Ollie Gordon.

I think he's a player that should be part of their future. Like he's a short yardage, big physical back. Jalen Wright got into the mix last week. And then Devon A. Chan is great, whether lined up as a receiver or as a running back. The flip side is where I'm even more curious if it was a one week thing or not. Because they did make some schematic changes in terms of how they were like lining up their defensive tackles last week and everyone got on the Falcons. You did somewhat as well.

I don't think it was about like in terms of how much they were using Bejohn Robinson. It was more like knowing how to use him. Because when you look at that game last week, they tried to use him. It just wasn't working. And so is that a one week thing? Because the dolphins do have talented players up front. Jalen Phillips definitely coming off his best game of the year. I would say Zach Seeler is too.

I think Jordan Brooks has been great all year. They do have some players. The weakness is in the secondary. So that's one where I want to see it more than one week. but that one week was enough, it really isn't one week. If you look at their last three or four games, every week has probably been their best game of the season.

Well, they're all hot seat games for everybody. Right. Even the Browns game defensively, like I know they were playing the Browns, but they gave up around 200 yards in that game. The defense was fine. So I'm always hopeful that we're going to have a more interesting game to talk about on the Thursday night recap.

But I... So is that booth. Yes. I do think they showed some things last week that at least make me think, okay, maybe they're a little closer to the seven and ten, eight and nine dolphins that maybe some people expected

before the season than they are to this total problem. The problem is that they're playing the best offense in the league when it's healthy and it's one of them and it's quite healthy. And also, if it goes horribly, horribly, horribly wrong, just a couple of days before the deadline. The Ravens might be getting a great look

at a pass rush or they should try to make a move for and see if that works out. That's good. Because I think Bradley Chub is probably more likely to be traded, but he hasn't really been that effective this year has a big number. Jalen Phillips is a really interesting young player who you could think about trying to sign long term after you trade for him. But I think the Dolphins should be trying to sign him long term because you're always better

that second year. Yeah, you might be frozen though, whether you're offloading or extending if you don't know if you're going to have a job at the end of the year. That's a great point. So that's why a team like the Ravens could bring him in. They could think, hey, we'll tag him if we can't work out a deal, something like that. Thursday night football. I think the dolphins maybe keep it close.

Closer than seven and a half. Why not? That's it for today's show. We will be back on Wednesday. Are you ready? I'm so ready. Honkers Anonymous. What did we call it?

Honking. Haunted honkers. All bad. All of it's bad. End the show. Spooky. It's going to stay spooky. All week.

See you Wednesday. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the iHeart radio app,

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies,

coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere. else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.