NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Head Coach Hot Butt Power Rankings

Episode Date: August 16, 2019

A room filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Chris Wesseling, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal bring you some of the major takeaways from the latest preseason Thursday night games (4:37) and then go over the head coach hot butt power rankings. (24:00). Lastly, a very special guest stops by the show...(44:53)Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast is trying to make S. Darn happen. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast presented by Sirius XM. My name is Dan Hansis, and I'm coming to you from a room that's just filled with heroes, Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosenthal. What is up, boys? Hey, Dan. Happy Friday. I don't think we need to make

Estarn happen I think he's making it happen on his own Eston With a helping hand from you, Mark Sessler I mean, I don't feel like that's a nickname that's really taken off Any more so than IR Boomerang took off, but you try

and then you sometimes at some point Iron is in the culture Sort of I don't think maybe it took off as much as we believed it did in the moment but it's not over it's good it's great it's way better than what is the technical term short term iR or whatever that's i are i are designated to it yeah that's like extremely clunky total clunk fest uh yes i'm here uh i don't know what is up with the

los angeles court system you'll zeuser checks in five days in a row they're like now we're cool which worked out i mean yeah i thought you had a good that's great that's what you you said on tech you just picked the perfect game they said it couldn't be done in 2019 that people you know they're calling in relievers in the fifth or the six no you got through all five days it's pretty awesome i don't know if you i'm not saying you need to share it with with anyone listening but you had a strong theory i thought as to why you were not selected i had a theory that i share with my friends privately okay well people can guess it what the theory is but uh yeah so i fulfilled my duties as a citizen I'm in the clear and it's full steam ahead as we move now inside three weeks before the start of the regular season.

How about that, Wes? All right. I'd rather the games mean something. What? Yeah, you, we meant three weeks to the season and you were just kind of like, what, you were disappointed. You want this offseason to go on forever. I mean, it's August. It's still baseball season.

Unfortunately, the games, week two of the preseason began on Thursday night, and while the standings don't matter to most, to me they do. There are some very real ramifications of giant men running hard on the field and crashing into each other. We'll get into some injury stuff. In fact, we're going to go through takeaways from the Thursday night preseason action. Also, also, Zeuser wrote a banger. Time to dig in head coach hot butt rankings.

Now, NFL.com, where I wrote this piece, where you could find it at NFL.com, Hansus slash Hansus, their headline NFL head coach job security rankings, colon, who's safe on hot seat. Well, that's nice. That's, I guess, good for SEO or whatever. But we know what this really is. It's the hot butt rankings. Yeah, absolutely.

That headline leaves out the sizzle. We return the sizzle on the around the NFL. Thankfully, though, the written article, which is well worth checking out, it's got great little pictures, it's got good analysis. It doesn't have the drop, the sound effect that we do. In a lot of ways, it's a superior product. You could say that. You could argue that.

I would refute that claim. I mean, you could also, on loop, play that sound effect while you're reading. I mean, we've retired some sound drops over the years or they've just died off. I think it's time. Let's move on. Well, you're alone on that. Bring back Greg. He does Dallas.

It's been a while. Who could it be? Who is at number 32 on the power rings? I think you know who's won. So we'll get to that. And also a very special guest will join us and we'll keep it as a secret until that person arrives. Wow.

The show. But first, let us get to it. The preseason action, some takeaways from Thursday night. Third down. And 10. out of the shotgun. Jackton will run. Five-set the man.

Dixon's out of the 10. The five, who is a man? Stepped in for the touchdown. Oh, Lamar Jackson with a flash, put a flag on the play. Fun to see it, but I think I'd still rather see him slide in August.

Yes, it didn't count, but who cares if it didn't count? It's the preseason. Lamar Jackson, once again, showing his incredible ability with a ball in his hands, moving his legs on a third in 10. He took off faked. Traymond Williams out of his

Nikes. Not hard to do if you're Traymond Williams not a young defensive back at this point. Well, I'm just saying. Leaped over leapt over Jaya Alexander into the end zone, 18-yard touching around. Called back, Willie Sneed got hit

with an illegal block, but who cares? It was a reminder, first takeaway for me. Lamar Jackson, what a talent he is, which we know, but it's good to see it again. And after the game, it was against the Packers. Aaron Rogers and Lamar met at midfield. And Rogers said, I love watching you play. That was pretty spectacular.

Have a great season. Slide a little bit. Slide a little bit. Certainly in week two of the preseason, get down. One little side note to that Rogers, Lamar Jackson, meetup, was an incredible tweet by typically an annoying tweeter, RG3, who put out video of him just sort of standing there while the two of them made the two other quarterbacks

who are actually playing in the game, talk to each other, and he called himself RG Third Wheel. I thought he did a nice job with that. A little bit of self-deprecation. It's not the worst from RG3. No, it's actually good progress, I feel like, in what's been a roller coaster.

And also, Lamar Jackson very casually referred to Aaron Rogers as goat. Hey, goat. This is the lingo that happens within... Rogers likes that. Within the league. I mean, the whole goat thing is like, it literally says, in the acronym for goat,

it's greatest of all times. Yet now it's become common that there are multiple goats at all times in all sports in multiple ways. It doesn't make any sense. There can only be one. You're right about that. But it has become kind of part of the nomenclature. It's sort of up there with epic. Like everything is epic now.

Got an analogy. It's like when I was in the dating world on these apps, every woman refers to herself as a unicorn, which defeats the whole purpose of being a unicorn. Lamar's the unicorn, though. How about that? I don't know if that's what that stands for, Wes. Well, there are other meanings to unicorn, which, if they're all that. What are they?

What's the meaning? You know. No, I don't. I've been out of the game years now. You've never heard of what a unicorn is? I mean, if we can't explain what your theory about not going to Jerry Duty was, I'm not sure we can tell on this topic. Okay. I believe in this situation that your unicorn may not be what's on the table in all these dating apps.

I would assure you it's not the case. Anyway, he is. Lamar Jackson back to football. I don't put almost anything into these preseason performances. I'm more excited. He did look composed just that by everyone who's watched his practice and what

he said after this game that you just can't compare where I am, Lamar Jackson right now compared to where I was a year ago. I'm so much more advanced throwing the ball and understanding kind of the concepts of the offense. That's what everyone said watching practice. You could see it a little bit in the preseason. I'm not putting too much in that.

But I buy that that he's pretty far further advance as a pass. You see that. And it's a reason to get so excited about Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, who they're saying has more zip on his throws. And he contributed that to being in a full off season where he's not prepping for a combine and, you know, the draft and all that malarkey.

He's able to just focus on the game. These guys that flashed in year one, there's reason to be highly optimistic about what they can do in year two. Wes, what was a takeaway that you had from yesterday? Well, I think we've learned by now that preseason analysis tends to simply be confirmation bias. If you were worried about Kyler Murray and Cliff Kingsbury,

I was worried because you're talking about a very talented guy who's joining the worst team in the league with a terrible offensive line, a first-time head coach bringing a system into the NFL that's never been in the NFL, a subpar receiving core, subpoor offensive line, bad defense, there's a lot on his shoulders.

If you're worried about that, then you're still, you're even more worried after like four punts and a safety to start the season. But if you think that Kyler is going to be a sensation, you just write it off as, hey, it's the preseason. It's not a big deal. So to me, I'm a little worried. I don't put any.

I'm worried, but not because of that performance at all. Because their offense, even more than any other, is going to be so game specific. And it's being so shielded in the preseason that they're so vanilla, that they're not doing anything that they're going to do, that you almost can't look at it. Now there are a few things like him taking false starts and him taking that safety. The clap snap.

That was just bad. You know, he had some big-time rookie moments. Are you worried at all about the helmet to body ratio? Well, Wes, I know you are. What is that? Yeah, I'm with Wes on this. It's like watching Marvin the Martian out there. The hell.

It looks like a Pop Warner player. In general, like his stature, and I know this is way played out if you were part of the draft industrial complex in the months of leading up to the draft when he finally goes number one. is he too small to succeed in the NFL? It does stand out how small and stature he seems on that field. And even at one point he goes to the sideline to speak with his head coach. And Kingsbury is towering over Murray. And I'm not saying there's anything to really take out of that. But he is not a big guy.

And you just wonder, you don't see that a lot. He's not what the typical quarterback mold is. Not saying he's doomed to fail because of his height. Just saying it's striking to see on the field a quarterback with that. The helmet, it's a little like a Marvel, like bad guy character, like the bad guy is Aquaman a little bit. It's like when like short rock stars, you look at a seam in concert and they're wearing big like three inch platform boots. Is that what he's doing with the helmet to get a couple extra inches? I think it's just a normal helmet, but on a five foot nine and three quarters guy.

It's a cool-looking helmet though. He does the visor. I can't think of many starting quarterbacks that come into the league with the visor like that. I like it. My one thing with them is if the offense struggles at all early or it goes through something like we saw last night, night. And it's fair to expect that it might. They have nothing, it seems like they have nothing on defense to support what's happening. Patrick Peterson is out on a long suspension to start the year. Robert Alford got hurt last night. He broke his leg, a starting corner. Yeah, and that

is a concern. In both games, by the way, the opposing offenses went up and down the field on the Cardinals. That's a little bit of concern. But I'm not worried about the offense. They remind me of kind of Mike Shanahan, RG3. They're hiding things until week one. I keep here in that comparison we'll see mark how about you i you know in i know every time i bring up this team it sounds like i'm buttering uh dan's bread to try to like make to not reveal my real feelings but i it's getting weird but i will say this about sam darnal and then because one thing i think you can pull away from these preseason games is how does the first team offense do against what should be mostly defensive starters and so you're really only getting one drive or two

and it's two weeks in a row where the Jets are ripping downfield, and it's not just how they're doing it. It's what we didn't see much from Darnold last year because they kept him under wraps in that hideous offense is aggressive, downfield throws. I think their wide receivers are, it's a talented group that's working well with Darnold. It's interesting to see Ty Montgomery

clearly be a guy that's going to get more usage than I would have thought maybe before this preseason started. I'd be worried about that. He was a disaster for the Ravens. He's their backup. They have Lev Bell. So it's like they also have other running backs they can use. But my one concern, I don't like any team at this point that gets into, you know, a couple weeks before the season.

And you've got this character Tyler or Taylor Bertolet missing extra points and looking like he simply does not belong on the field. Oh, he's done. So he, of course, Charlie Kandizero misses two extra points in week one of the preseason, walks into his coach's office and says I'm retiring at 20. must be nice. Taylor Bertolet or whatever. Bertolay not going to be here much longer. He's going to, he misses two extra points. He'll be gone.

And what's going to end up happening, it seems like the stars are aligned that the Vikings, they just got the guy from Baltimore. They're going to kick Dan Bailey to the curb. And I think Dan Bailey's kind of on the ropes. But the Jets or another similarly needy team will end up with Dan Bailey. There'll be a few of those.

Bertolay's been thrown over the ropes. Yeah, there'll be a few of those kickers cut. I think the, but there's multiple teams looking. Guys out there, by the way. Looking for them. Yeah, there's multiple teams that'll be looking for kickers. I think the Bears, after all this kicking competition and all this nonsense talk throughout all the offseason,

there's a very good chance their kicker is just someone they signed two days before the season starts. None of it mattered. But to wrap that, I know Adam Gase has his, there's suspicions about him, he's got his detractors and how the whole thing can go. I can think of another coach, and I'm not comparing them, that super arrow down on this guy after he totally burnt out with a team,

went back and was an assistant for a while, and someone somewhere prized him, thought he was just this value that deserved a second shot. That was Bill Belichick. I'm not saying that they're the same on any level, but there's something about Adam Gase, and especially his demeanor during this preseason. I love the smelling salt stuff.

I love just sort of the fact that he's a little jacked up and has a huge beard, and he works well with Darnold. I just kind of think he doesn't give an F. I think they're going to score points. They kind of work. I like the annual trick. tradition of Greg Williams calling like blitzes on 70% of plays in a preseason and he and just destroying the Falcons the Falcons and their line looked suspect and their offensive line is

injuries but they're not preparing for those blitzes so again that's one of those things is why though Greg Williams even in a preseason game he has to do it they are so there in so much trouble jets on defense and Avery Williamson blew out his knee and that is their starting inside linebacker and he is a quarterback on that defense or is a CEO yeah that is a huge loss for a defense. It already has no secondary or a real pass rush. I think the Jets are going to lose a lot of 38, 31 games this year, unfortunately. And Greg Williams, his task will be to go nuts, Greg Williams style with blitzing, I think.

That will be their only chance to be hyper-aggressive, but they're going to get burned a lot. That Ryan has gotten so much better at improv the last three or four years. He is not the quarterback people think he is. He gets away from pressure pretty well and makes plays that are not scripted. He's in my top five. He would be in my top five. Greg, you got a. Greg Williams is a perfect – if you're going to have Greg Williams do it

when he's kind of has less talent almost and has to go crazy scheming. Well, that was him – he's a good guy to make a bad defense fine. That's what they need. They need a bad defense to be okay. It's not going to be good. My takeaway is that Dwayne Haskins and Case Keenom are not inspiring Jay Gruden and that he would love for one of these guys to step up. But when they really ask him about Keenum after the game on –

Thursday night. You could just tell he's just, Jake Gruden's not excited about Keenham. Colt McCoy's been too injured to play, and so they have to choose one of them. And Haskins, look, the touchdown throw he made was one of the

best throws of the preseason, standing in the pocket, hit him in stride way down the field. That was awesome. But after that, his next six possessions were five punts and a fumble, and he seems to be making some good decisions, but not delivering the ball accurately, and it doesn't seem like he has a great chance to start week one. And I feel bad for him because the left tackle and their entire offensive

line is just so troubling right now. They don't have Trent Williams. And this quote from Adrian Peterson, which was from before the game, but it really, I wanted to say it because he, it's so telling, he thinks that the left tackle situation is making life so much harder on Dwayne Haskins. It's making them have to think more, not process things as calmly. Matter of fact, I think I think it's impacting all of our QBs. Guys are coming off the edge in practice right there on the QB and the running back every other down. It's been a struggle.

That's what Adrian Peterson said about his teammates. He wants that to get back to his left tackle. Well, he's defended, Trump. Yeah, he's, it sounds like he's close. By the way, Adrian Peterson is still jump cutting like he's 20. He looked pretty great last night. I thought of Wes because there was last show and he reminded us. He heard me saying they could go get Velvet Gordon.

Don't you call him like garbage or something? I just said like, don't. He said he doesn't matter. I said, don't worry about him. long term if you want to go get it's not what he said he doesn't matter um another big injury i mentioned avery williamson of the chargers this is a big one west huge uh safety derwin james one of the best young players in football suffered a fracture in his foot he's going to miss it a significant amount of time he is a candidate for the boomerang i are potentially uh it's that

level of an injury maybe not something at this point that we're hearing is going to end a season but we'll significantly eat into it just to note i r boomerang just so that we can try to to get this thing off the ground a second time. What did I say? Boomerang, I.R. It's I.R. Boomerang. Rolls off the tongue just a little more smoothly. Last year's chargers were the outlier. They didn't have their season decimated by injuries.

And now we're returning to the pre-2018 chargers. You've got Derwin James. Okay. One of, along with Joey Bose and Melvin Ingram, the three best defensive players. Ruslo Coombe, left tackle. Who knows when he's going to be back? Keenan Allen, ankle injury out for the entire preseason.

Melvin Gordon, hold out. who knows when he's coming back. There's a lot of question marks on this Chargers team. And the Okung one is major. We talked about how he had almost a life-threatening injury with his heart. He hasn't practiced at all. And if he doesn't, their tackle situation with Philip Rivers at 38 years old behind him would be up there with the worst in the entire NFL between their left tackle and their right tackle.

And it's not like they're great at guard and in the middle either. That is the thing that really worries me about the Chargers. Anybody else have something? Yes. The past interference call in the Redskins-Bengles game. That was not good. I think replay review sounds great in theory. You fix what's obviously wrong.

In practice, common sense and entertainment value just get thrown out the window on judgment calls. We've seen this for years. And the thing about rules is they're pretty worthless if they're applied arbitrarily and capriciously. The sequence of events in that play. We'll see it play out dozens of times throughout the season and you won't see a flag thrown once. That was the play where he came back to the ball. Came back to the ball.

And the explanation this morning from the officials is that there was a kind of a hand check at some point that threw the defender off balance like 10 yards before the catch, which you can only see on coach's replay except you can't even really see it. I think it's never going to be called. Doesn't it feel like,

then we talked about it a little bit on the last show, there's some pushback going on here between the officiating group and what the owners... They're trying to make a point. Put into the league. The officials hate this rule. And it's all playing on the stage of Twitter where people are going absolutely nuts over it.

I have two little quick things. Love this in the Ravens game. And it's a stretch for me to like anything the Ravens do out of principle. But they have in their stadium now, you know, when you go to an NFL game and it turns, or any sort of big sports stadium and it turns towards night, and they kick up the gigantic Clegg lights around.

It takes like 15 minutes for them to warm up and truly brighten. The Ravens have a feature now, and it happened last night. And that game, by the way, features Trace McSorley, my guy, that is a quarterback controversy in Baltimore. But they have a lights on, lights off feature where it's almost like you're in your bedroom and you just want to go on, on, off, on off, on off. That quickly, the stadium lights shoot on and shoot off. It is fantastic.

It's like Clark Riswold and Christmas Vacation, just flip the switch. I have to wonder if it's a little bit of a nod to the Ravens Niner Super Bowl, but I think it's probably something, it's not that. My other note is that, you know, last year I think we obviously as a group had some issues with Monday Night Football. I'm not sure that they're totally solved, but watching the broadcast last night,

minus Jason Witten. Good luck to him. But Joe Tessator and Bougar were a lot better, I thought, and I thought the testator took up take about 30 to 35% of his exuberance and kind of just brought it down a notch. And I found it a much more listenable, the tenor to me was a joyable program. And I need that. They want that.

I want that. We all want that. So it takes time to grow as a broadcast team. Bougar and Tessator survived. They're survivors because they could have easily been kicked out the door because that was how bad the criticism was, although most of it was trained on Witten. They are now set up well. Once you survive, now you get the opportunity to have the bounce back season, you know,

where people are going to be like, wow, booger and Tess, these guys aren't so bad after all. If they play this right, this will be a very nice season for them. It is a bounce back scenario. And Tessitore. He's got a big reality show hit, too. Is everything coming up Tessitore? It is. Big summer hit.

Well? I think it's with Rob Riggle, golf. It's all happening. Wait, is that the Russell Wilson? the show. I think he's the executive producer, Wilson. All I know is multiple streams of income work for any human being. That sounds good. They had the fortune, too, of having Kyler Murray play the whole first half and something to talk about, where in some of these games, the Sean McVeighification

of the preseason is really taken over. Sean McVeigh last year didn't play any of his starters on either side of the ball for the entire preseason, which was next level in minimizing the preseason. And more and more teams are going that way. Eagles, Jaguars, neither team was really playing any starters. It's like, I like this. It can just skip. I don't need to watch Minshaw versus Clayton Thorson. Just skip it.

The preseason, it started to be down to just weeks two and three. And now it's just down to like some teams week three. Well, the one note, though, obviously with the Eagles is your reason for doing that is to completely eradicate the concept of losing major players to injury. But by playing their backups, they've lost Sudfelt. Nate Sudfeld last week to a serious injury and Cody Kessler is back in concussion protocol for like multiple times in his career. Fine Fitzpatrick, get him up there.

You called it. By the way, the program is called Holy Moli. And it is not Russell Wilson that's behind it. It is Steph Curry and Joe Testatories, yes. Co-host. I've got all the bases covered here. We want to talk about a professional podcast. Plus we got a special surprise guest.

I mean, this is, I think, the first surprise guest in the podcast. history where we'll have to not include it on the description on iTunes or else that would that would blow it so this is truly well that's on Ricky truly an exciting moment the tension will be raised Rick Hollywood has to be plugged in on that too Twitter too by the way yeah whatever you guys need cool good to hear you it's Saturday afternoon in her world right now all right that's what's happening in the preseason of course more games to come this weekend hopefully no more serious

injuries. All right, let's get to it. Fire up the burners because it's that time to talk about it. Now, and I know there's going to be people around the league that work in front office that even, they don't like seeing it. They don't like seeing it. The NFL.com is a story about hot butts and head coaches. The ranking that I've put together is not a prediction of how these seasons are going to go. It's more just a lay of the land. What kind of footing are these men on as they begin the 2019 season. And I put it into tears. And you guys

can tell me how you want to hit this, how you want to handle it. But I broke it down into, I believe, five different tiers. It should be no surprise that number one is Bill Belichick. And he's in his own realm. In a tier called Bill Belichick. In a tier called Bill Belichick.

Because that's how important Belichick is to the Patriots and the legacy he's built there. Maybe Wes. I thought I'd lean on you as a story. Now, you might bring up a certain man connected to the Cincinnati Bengals, a founding father. But since Vince Lombardi, has anyone been safer from the hot seat than Bill Belchek? That's a fair question. Yeah, I would bring up the guy who was the owner of the Bengals while he was the head coach, Paul Brown. Right. How about like Zach Taylor right now? There's no way the Browns

are firing a coach one year into his contract. You guys all said that as Steve Wilkes at this time last year. It happens. It happens. The Bengals would never. The great people in NFL research sent me some info on that. It doesn't happen a lot, but it happens every one or two years, two or three years. Wilkes, Rod Chisinski with Cleveland was, I think, the last guy before that. Occasionally it happened. And with this list, and you guys jump in whenever, I did stick all the first time first year head coaches in kind of the same group right in the middle.

And when it comes down to it, in the last 10 years of the league, it's been really consistent. It's been seven or eight coaches that get let go at the end of every week 17, that Black Monday. It was eight this year. It was seven last year. I think it was sixth the year before that, but then seven, seven, eight. You have to go back. There was one outlier year 2010, I believe it was, when it was just three coaches fired. Good year.

But every other year, there's going to be turnover almost at a 25% clip. So let's jump into it. I want to know where I got it wrong. okay let's start that one guy who sticks out and i maybe this is the greg rosenthal influence on you but john harwall would be like 12 spots higher i think at least i think he would be in that top 10 for me he hasn't you've got him 23rd so you have him kind of as the 10th the 10th the 10th if you're going back to front he has the hottest seat he has the 10th hottest seat which would put him 23 out of 32 a long somewhat of a long shot to get fired but he would be in the conversation

West, I originally, I did make some phone calls as the insider checking in with some things. And I was told, don't be so confident. Don't read too much at. Well, we've been told that for a few years now, and I've never believed it. Here's the bottom line with him, though. I mean, we can say the contract extension is something to just, you know, lock him in. He's safe. But this is essentially a 500 coach over the last six years since that's Super Bowl.

My one playoff with. He's a good coach. He is. A year ago, the question would have been, what if he had handled the transition from Joe Flacco to Lamar Jackson disastrously? Or if he resisted it when everyone else saw it should happen. I thought he handled it perfectly. And to me, it gave him a new lease on life. And I go back to this with some of these guys with John Harbaugh. It's almost like you put him in it, for me, like a Mike Tomlin. A lot of people have issues with Tomlin. Some people have issues with Harbaugh. You move on from them. They both get hired the night they get fired by someone else. And then you as the Ravens have to find someone that you can tell your fan base is better than John Harba. I think he's pretty safe. I would put him in the middle. He is the first guy in that tier. And so if you had just kind of put him at the back

of the other tier, I think he's somewhere there where things have to go pretty wrong. The other part of it, and you could read into this if you want, is you know, Eric Acosta, he's in control of that show in Baltimore now. And when Harbaugh signed the extension, if you want to be, you know,

read into things. In his tweet and his statement, he thanked ownership, but not the general manager. And Dacosta maybe, you know, wants to put a stamp on this team at a certain point and bring in his guy. That is, that's off. Isn't Harbaugh already his guy? They've been together forever.

If you're looking for kind of surprise head coaches to lose his job, that often happens with a new GM, even though he's been. It's a little bit different when the GM comes from in-house and has been the GM in waiting for half a decade. Let it be said, I do not believe he'll be fired. Okay. I have one for you. If we, less, there's more.

I hear where you're coming from. by putting Kyle Shanahan way down at 28. But to me, it would be, number one, we have not seen that coach run a full season with his, with even a healthy roster, much less not having his quarterback. And so this season decides a lot. If Jimmy G. is a good passer and they still wind up four and 12 or five and 11, okay. But unless that 49ers organization, which has burned through coaches over the last five or six years, is convinced that Carl Shanahan is not anything

that most everyone who looks at that team believes that he is, one of the best and most creative coaches around. To me, to move on from him after this season and put him down at 28, I just feel that's in danger territory where I just don't see him that way, but maybe my confidence might be too high in him.

Let me throw out a hypothetical. Let's say the Niners go six and ten this year. And in three years, he's 16 and 32. and they're not moving in the right direction. And on top of it, I think John Lynch is in a lot of danger potentially as well. And if Lynch goes, they might bring in a guy who wants to bring in his own guy. So I think Shanahan, maybe the reason he's a few spots lower on this list than I would have put him just based on what I think of him, which he's a talented play caller, is because he might get thrown out with the bathwater if they don't get better this year.

It's time. By the way, we can make excuses all day about why Kyle Shanahan didn't get his. it done in the first two years or the Niners didn't. If it happens again, at what point do you say, well, maybe this isn't working, this whole regime? The football gods have been pretty angry at Kyle Shanahan since halftime of Super Bowl 51. I mean, you know, the Falcons and then the injuries, that category, so it's seat perhaps warmer than preferred.

And this is your second to last tier, is to me the most fascinating. I'm with Mark. I would have put Shanahan closer to Harbaugh. And I think that Ron Rivera, Dan Quinn, and Jason Garrett, for instance, who are all really interesting names, would have a little less job security than him. I think Garrett needs to, I think Garrett needs to make the playoffs. I think Dan Quinn maybe needs to make the playoffs. And I think Ron Rivera maybe needs to make the playoffs.

And it's all different reasons. I think Falcons are maybe just a little antsy after they let him fire his coaches. If his defense is still bad, if they still miss the playoffs, I think they'd make a change. Rivera with the ownership change, I think everyone loves Ron Rivera. and I think they're in position to make the playoffs. I'm going to prick them to the playoffs and then it'll be fine. But I just think with the ownership change and they might want to change GMs at some point,

like that's a tough situation for him. It's funny in doing the research around Garrett because he's a very interesting case here. I haven't met 27. He's been there for nine years, never been to a Super Bowl or really come close, and they're kind of in a Super Bowl or bust place. Back in July at the start of training camp,

It was such a total cowboy scene where they have everybody up on a dais for a press conference outdoors in Oxnard, and a reporter asks this. What do you need to see from Jason to bring him back in 2020? What did you say? I really didn't hear you. What do you need to see from Jason to bring him back in 2020 is your handbook? I really didn't hear you. I got a damn drill going on back over there. Next question. I mean, that's such a total Cowboys moment,

but it is so interesting that this is Jason Garron's life, Wes. It seems more acute, and maybe it's because of the spotlight with the Cowboys, than anyone else that he has to worry about these things. Well, we've talked about this quite a bit that Jerry brought him up through their farm system, basically. This is his hand-chosen guy that he has brought up and basically installed him. And I don't, to me, I don't know. His job security has always seemed much higher to me than people outside of the Cowboys would think.

But this year is unique with him in his last year of his contract. Especially Stephen Jones seems to be saying the playoffs or bust. I only have one coach on this list that, to me, is in the totally different tier than I would have them. I would move him down two tiers from 14 down to the late 20s. It's Bill O'Brien. Bill O'Brien's had a lot going on. And I think the ownership change there has been quiet. We're bringing out the Bill O'Brien punching bag.

Roll it out. No, no. It's not. All right. No matter what happens going to this season, if he trades Clowny, okay, that's on him. That's sort of he's going to have to own that. Does that work out or not? Like whatever's happening this season, if it all goes wrong, I think the ownership change is something to consider.

Bob McNair passed away. Cal McNair's son is took over. I just think everything that's. gone on with him pushing people out could it get ugly like if that season gets ugly i think they could just think let's let's start over i think he'd be in a lot a little more trouble than i mean as i wrote he carries the hammer there right now and he's he's in a lot of control but i do i do and i wrote that i left it open that things could change quickly and you brought up the ownership and i should have put that in there because that's certainly something to be

um connected to this conversation but yeah they were in last place two years years ago. They turn around last year. If things take a sour turn again and they have a new regime ahead of him in place, he maybe could become vulnerable quickly. The snowball factor is the counter against that is that the McNair family has shown their loyalty to him by letting him fire two GMs in 18 months. That's what I'd say.

That's a counter to it. His DNA there has been surviving through a lot of already rocky scenarios. And, you know, you have to wonder, it comes down to owners, ownership's belief in you. And they've already seen him through, yes, I realize there's some change there, but it's still the same group owning the team to some degree. And they've seen Bill O'Brien through a lot. He may be good at this, by the way.

Maybe not good as a GM, maybe only so-so as a head coach ultimately. But he might be a guy that knows how to sit on the Iron Throne. Like, he's a good survivor. I think you're absolutely right. I think he had a little bit of that reputation, too. And I think it helped him get the job at Penn State and then ultimately get the job at Houston.

That's not a knock on him. He's someone who has ambition and he's gone out and he's gotten pretty far. There's one guy who, another guy I think is too high and I understand why you put him at 11. But my spidey senses are tingling so heavily on Bruce Ariens in Tampa, the whole era that it's going to be. I don't think he went into this with the same. What had done? Potentially? I don't think he went into the same commitment level that he's done in previous jobs.

So he could be the reason he's not safe on someone. I think he would be the reason. I love what he did. I think it shows excellent. leadership in the NFL that he's the one saying I want these minority coaches to get jobs and I'm taking this job so I can bring these guys with me I think it's so cool but he was at a stage in his career where he said I'm only coaching again if I'm not giving myself the responsibility of calling plays well the whole Bruce Arian's experience is him being the play caller that's what

it is he's the quarterback guru he's the play caller and now he's giving that to other people and I just worry that he's all in that's a great call that But there's a little, it's a little reminiscent of Mike Shanahan in Washington. Yes. Which it almost felt like Mike Shanahan took the Washington job, not just for the money, which I'm sure was great, has a Dan Snyder wing on his house like Dion Sanders. But that he wanted to set up his son and all of these young coaches. And that seems when you hear Ariens talk to be a big time motivation for him.

He believes not just Todd Bowles, but especially on the offensive side, Byron Leffington, Harold Goodwin, all these assistants that he's not only giving them jobs, he's helping their career, he's trying to lift them up. But that's maybe not like what you want your head coach to be primarily motivated by. I feel that a little bit too, Wes. But I guess for this exercise, I kind of more focused on guys that could have the job taken from them against their will. I could see him coming back and not having the fire and be like, this isn't for me, or he doesn't feel well physically.

He's had health issues. It could be him doing that. It could also be that everything, the snowball factor is high here too. Yeah. That one James Winston wins comeback player of the year. Real quickly, I don't have a huge problem with where you put Anthony Lynn at number 13, but the name that came to mind a little bit, the parallel, because there's so much talent on that team,

that the way they moved on from Marty Schottenheimer after a season where they had a dominant record, where you have to ask, I like Anthony Lynn, but you had a chance to go out and get one of those four or five coaches that are a true game changer, Would you ever move on from... I like Antheon, but I can't point to you why I think he's a special coach. I'm just saying it. I'd go the other way.

I'd put him in the top 10 with Pete Carroll and Matt Nagy and Frank Reich. I mean, he got the Chargers 12 wins last year and I think has the respect of that organization and that he'd have a really long rope. I'd even put him higher. I like him. I just something about if like Sean, you know,

Peyton became available or something like that. I don't know. Two things working for him. I think that makes him ultra safe this year. One, they took a big step last year, not only with that great season where they gave the Chiefs everything they could handle in that division,

but then they go and they put together a brilliant defensive game and beat the Ravens, and that was a really impressive showing. And then we look at Philip Rivers, a guy that looked like he could have been on the way out a couple of years ago. At least he was becoming a sloppier quarterback,

and he's just been a much safer quarterback with the ball ball while still being kind of an elite. I'm more thinking if they go nine and seven and with the talent they don't, that's all. I'm not talking about today, but a year from now if it's disappointing. He reminds me a little bit of John Harbaugh, and that's a compliment that I think his players believe he manages the team extremely well, like manages the personalities and the coaches and all that.

And on some level, that's the biggest job a coach has. I also, like at the Combine, talked to him in the elevator for roughly 96 seconds and really liked him. So I'm rooting for him. Let me throw out one name that I struggled with where to place him. because he's done a nice job there and I think he's well liked but he's coming up

a really disappointing season he's an older guy Mike Zimmer with the Vikings I have him at 26 which was my way of being like I don't know either he's really safe or he's surprisingly not safe

where do you guys come in on him you have him with Rivera Quinn and to me they're all three very similar they have high expectations and they're good coaches So they would have to like really fall on their face But I think that the patients might end up wearing thin If they have a disastrous season Okay now the danger zone here we go

This is these are the guys And again it brings me no joy to report this But if you had to If there's going to be at least five guys that get let go These are the guys that I would I mean you could express your lack of joy By not playing this sound drop I think it needs to be done.

All right, so here we go. DMX, he taught us. It's dark and hell is hot. Here we go. Matt Patricia at 29. He replaces Caldwell, who went 9 and 7 back years ago, 6 and 10. The whole organization seems to be a little bit of a funk. They play in a tough division.

I got Doug Marone at 30. Obviously, hellish year last year in Jacksonville. Tom Coughlin was probably pretty p-oed about how last year went, so you got to get things going. Quickly, number 31 on the list, I had Pat Shermer of the New York Giants. And I don't know what it was, for some reason, when I started writing his blurb, this is the first thing that came to mind from this Pranus. I came to late for that.

I know. But lately, I'm getting the feeling that I came in at the end. The best is over. I just get the feeling that Schumer is going to be an unfortunate. He'll be a footnote, and what will be viewed is kind of like, a downtime for this organization that's in transition, that he's not part of the building of whatever comes next, that he's just going to be left behind. Yeah, it just feels like he's been tugged around by a lot of team messaging and decision-making that I'm not sure he may be the outlier who

doesn't agree with what they're doing, but he has very little power compared to some of these other head coaches. Yeah, that's well said. And I want to give a shout out to Pat Leonard of New York Daily News. Finally, we've got a Giants Beatwriter willing to say, move on from the Eli era. and he's pointed out that basically sure you've looked close enough to finally you know bother to read an article no one else in New York is saying this name me someone who said move on from Eli I mean I could send you probably a hundred articles let's see you right okay at minute 43 of literally every episode we have this conversation I just want to thank Pat Leonard thank you for good job Patty and finally number 32 the man most likely I believe to get left go let goes Jay Grunner the Redskins tough situation And, you know, five years, no playoff wins, three straight years without a postseason birth, that Alex Smith injury threw an entire wrench into the whole operation. And now he's tied to Dwayne Haskins, who may very well turn into a good pro or a great pro at quarterback, but maybe not right now. And Jay Gruden needs a quarterback and a team that's going to win right now. And I'm just not seeing it.

I think you nailed this tier. Yeah, I agree. Patricia is the only one that I would even quibble a tiny bit that he's only going into his second year and he's got a GM that I think if Petrips is fired they're going to fire the GM too and I think ownership is maybe going to have patience enough where let's say he went six or seven games again

I think he'd be fine maybe the fans yeah I think he'd be I mean there's a thing though Greg coaches don't get fired after two years too often when there's an alignment with the front office when there's no ownership issues or anything like that. I think Martha Ford, if they win six or seven games, is not going to just blow up the Quinn Patricia thing after only two years.

Here's the thing, though, Greg. While I agree with everything you just said, history, Chris Wessling, is instructive. And then you go through it. You get that third year, though. You know, I'm saying you go through it and the great people in NFL research, help me with this. Seven or eight guys are getting canned every January now.

So you've got to find them from somewhere. Now, maybe it is, this year will be the 2010 year. And maybe Matt Patricia, even if it is seven or eight guys, won't be among that green. I think those guys like Quinn and Garrett and Rivera are in more trouble just because I think their playoffs are fired. Well, see, I don't know. But they have better teams, so they have a better chance to keep a job. That's fine. My problem, maybe Matt Patricia isn't in the danger zone, but who do you put him much higher up in this list?

You name some guys, I don't agree with that. I would keep Matt Patricia where he is based on the fact that that team could also go four and 12. and they look optically, a team that wants to run the ball first and do all this stuff that feels like it's from 1992. It's got to work or you look like you're lagging behind. He's got to make his team interesting. That's the challenge. All right, there you go.

Check it out, NFL.com slash hansis. A banger. A banger. Thank you, boy. The problem is you can't write another article. Yeah. Because the way that works, they just go to your writer profile page. And if this bangers are placed by two or three.

I'll let this one sit there for you. I was going to say, just hang off the banger territory. All right, let's now get to it. Oh, yes, a little treat, a Friday treat. All right, you know, we promised a surprise. And around the NFL podcast has always had a very, you know, rich history and connection with the hip-hop world. Last year, Ice Cube in studio, of course.

Reggie Bush, our friend from the Twitter show, dated Kim Kardashian, who's married to Kanye West. Connie Fox went viral with that Cardi D freestyle. Pretty B. Wes and Mark went to school with Grandmaster Flash. Not true. And of course, Greg likes rap. But it all started, the connection, all started with a woman from the Bay Area who's got the whole scene on lock, Lil Debbie.

And with the Raiders and Antonio Brown back in the news, we had to bring her back. What is up, Lil Debbie? Hey. Hey, thanks for having me back. It's been a while. Oh, it has been too long. And you know what? Oh, listen to this.

Turn this up. Turn this up in my headphones, Ricky. Oh, yeah. Listen to this. New stuff. Yeah. This is the new stuff about Bay Chronicles, little Debbie's latest.

Side hoe. I love it. Yeah. What is side hoe about, by the way? I think I might know. I have one of those in my life. That's amazing. I love that.

I always support that movement. Do you be great? Live your best life. I love it. All right, Deb. Here's the thing. So you're a Raiders fan. And if you're new to the show,

you should know that Lil Debbie, in addition to being a rap star, is also a big fan of her hometown Raiders. And Antonio Brown, this melodrama around him with the frostbitten feet from the cryo chamber, the helmet drama.

I imagine, Deb, none of this could sit well with you. I mean, I'm a diva myself, and I understand, but I just, here's my thoughts. Even though I am a diva, I surely understand that if I want something, there's a way of saying it. And I just feel like if he had said that he wanted his helmet back in, in a nicer way, they probably would have just given it to him, right? Well, you know, according to the NFL, there's new rules where he had a grandfather period where he could have done it last year, but now it's by rule.

Let me flip it a little bit, an analogy here. Let's say, Lil Debb, and you're always touring right now, I believe you're on a little bit of a break, but you're on the road a lot, right? Let's say your record label told you you can no longer use your preferred, let's call it, plant-based relaxant. okay okay and instead they told you what you could smoke wouldn't you fight that tooth and nail wouldn't you cause a stink wouldn't you walk out on your tour potentially to get what you thought you deserved no I would never walk out on my tour but that was a test

you have integrity and I understand fighting for what you want um but like I said I just as a woman, I also feel like if I want something, there's a certain way that I go about it. You know what I'm saying? It's kind of just, you got to be tricky. You got to be a little nice. You know what I'm saying? You might have to kiss them, but I don't know, you know. And I truly believe that.

So I get it. Divas are divas. And I do believe there's a lot of divas in the NFL. But like I said, there's a way of going up. about it. I don't know if there's a diva quite like Antonio Brown, but you got to deliver. If you're a diva, you've got to deliver the talent. Like, what are some of the, like, management troubles that you've had over the years where you've

had to experience, you know, show some diva behavior? Oh, it's more like green room diva behavior. Like, when I get to the venue, I'm like, everybody is up and out of my green room. I don't really know you. I don't play well with others. Things like that. You know, you got to. to have my veggie platter,

you know, my boove, water. I've walked into venues and they not had water for me and I had to, you know, kind of get a little sassy. No green M&Ms ever. Yeah. Exactly. Things like that.

That's when the diva really kind of comes out. As a very plugged-in Raiders fan, I guess my question is, you know, you're on the road a lot, but when you are home in Los Angeles or up in the Bay, do you go to watch games at a local sports bar with your contingent? Or do you just sit? I would imagine you live in what would be like a small castle or something.

Do you watch games at home? You live in California. You know what it would cost to live in a small castle. I assume you have that kind of money. I have, there is a cute sports bar near me on Wilshire. That's very cute. But, you know, since I'm traveling on. a lot like Wednesday I watched hard knocks um in san antonio at the hotel look at you how are you

like in this hard knock season i i like it i mean derrick car he's looking real good you know i'm really excited for keel and doth i think you know with this whole Antonio stuff going on that you know it's it's dope for him because he gets a chance to kind of like prove himself and shine a little And he's a Bay Area native. So I think that the ladies are going to love him. And I think that it's just a dope position for him to be in. That was one of my takeaways from Das that, you know, Hard Knocks always picks their underdogs that they get behind and they'll track his journey. But John Gruden's head coach seemed equally hung up not just on his ability on the field, but like how he does with women.

And that seemed, it came up multiple times. And I just, it gets a little weird after a while, doesn't it? But who doesn't love the ladies? You know what I'm saying? Fair point. I mean more like his 55-year-old head coach, like keeps coming back to it. It's like, you know, stay out of his business. She said, you're in on Gruden, though, right?

You got to be a Gruden fan. Are you talking to me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Sorry, I'm like, who mean? I think that, you know, with all this Antonio stuff going on, it's funny to see for me. because I'm like, oh, diva, you know?

And as a female fan, it's funny. But it is causing some problems, and it's causing some drama, you know? And I think there's more important things going on, and I don't think it's making him look the best. And he's a good player, you know what I'm saying? And so I just feel like he needs to just chill a little, you know, and maybe figure out another way to go about this. I mean, one thought for you, you know, you're up there,

you're sort of one of the Raiders' signature fans. You have a voice. John Gruden, the coach, is under contract for another 10 years guaranteed. So there'd be some run on this. Why not put together a kind of a Gruden anthem song, corner that market and just had that thing blasting at the stadium week after week? That's true. That's where the money would come from.

I would totally be down to do that if I could, you know, get into. to games for free. Yeah. Equip, pro quo. All right, we can maybe, I don't know. I don't know if we can somehow. No, we can't do anything. I don't think we can help that, but maybe we can somehow set you up with someone to talk to.

I mean, it was big. I mean, as big for Wiz Khalifa, black and yellow, you know, that could be a big, big move. That's a good point right there. That's a very solid point. Let's not ignore the, you know, 800-pound gorilla in the room, though. They're leaving your town. Are you going to remain a Raiders fan when they go to Vegas? well I actually was currently in Las Vegas maybe a month ago and I'm a I'm a

Las Vegas fan I like to do trashy things so that's you know my side thing Erica just like you so I I we drove into Vegas because I live in LA and it's like three to four hours three if you're speeding and I got to drive by the stadium and it's very impressive as of right now so it sounds like you're sticking you're in you're in i'm in i'm in you know i live in bag i mean i live in l a it's close to Vegas um it's sad and i actually went to a game was at the beginning of this year or maybe the end of last year in oakland um so i've got to see the raiders there it was a really great experience me and my home girl's photo got to be up on the screen, you know.

We did all like the hashtagging and all that kind of fun stuff. And I'm excited for them because I think it's going to be an improvement for them. And I think they're going to be happy with the setup there. All right. Lil Debbie, I mean, you've done it. You came. You've conquered. And, you know, this woman, she releases music at the pace of Bob Dylan in the 60s.

There's always new albums coming out. It's prolific. But the latest is Bay Chronicles. It's out right now. It includes that single, Side Ho. Oh, yeah. Oh, beautiful. Follow Lil Debbie on Twitter at L1L Debbie.

And, you know, maybe next time you're on the show, come visit us in the studio again. I would love that. I would love to see all your faces. Awesome. We liked the gift you gave us last time. I know that I personally enjoyed it. So more of those, please. Yeah.

good. All right, Little Debbie, thank you. Thank you for having me. You guys enjoy your day. You too. You too. Bye. Thanks, Deb. Oh, Little Debbie. She did it again. Delightful. She's the best. I forgot to ask one question of my notes that I, for the listener,

to be honest, like there's been this it's been going on for a couple years where people, some people, conspiracy theorists, believe that Little Debbie and Tiny Box Colleen Wolf are the same person. And I was going to get her just to comment on the fact that that's absolutely not true

didn't get to it, the theories still live. Yeah, if you are among those people in that group, certainly you now saying it after the interview is over only fuels that fire. I'm finally doing this thing. Well, Debbie, that's why they're a third time

in the show, fourth? I think it's her maybe one in person visit. We've got to get her in the studio next. Remember there was a delay last time because she had matters going on in the car in the parking lot she needed she did yes it's a famous appearance yeah she she had notorious yes yes the car was parked but there was action inside the car i don't even know how to put it leave that to the imagination all right awesome all right everybody have great weekend we'll be back

next week our reminder the fantasy extravaganza with a big fish coming into the boat next wednesday no jury duty we're flying I was ready to, I was going to serve my country. Just like if we ever got, our generation, we got very lucky, let's face it, no draft or anything for wars. I would have been the first guy at the draft complex. Well, we don't know that. You can say that, but that's, you know, that theory will never be tested. Yeah, you can't enlist.

That's open and available. Because if you're saying you're first for the draft, that just means you enlist. Yeah, but those are the real heroes. Those are the real brave guys. I'm saying I'm the next tier. I don't think they have like, hey, I want to be at the upper draft list. That just means you're entering the military. The men and women that serve this country and they enlist, I have so much respect for them.

They are true heroes. I mean, you're almost getting too old. You are not part of the conversation. No, if you were making a power rankings on American heroism, I would never put myself in that group. But I'm right below that. Nor would anyone else. You are not in the rankings. You had a choice.

You could have made a career choice to be a military person. You're ahead of, you're ahead of the first responders. You're ahead of, like, firemen. I don't know about it. No, no, no, no. I'm not ahead of them either. So you just said. But that's a different power ranking.

Wait, this is the, you're going to have. I'm ahead of you guys is all I'm saying. No, that is also inaccurate. That is highly inaccurate. You guys are going to walk you down to the recruiting office. You guys are halfway to Canada. This is absurd. And I'm right there talking to Uncle Sam.

I mean, a lot of talk is. There is a part of being a hero that says. You buy it, right? No, yeah, definitely. She has to. She says she has to. Removing all aspects of self-promotion, would we be one way to be a hero and a bit countercultural today. Instead, you're telling us how fantastic you are.

Give me a break. I'd be there. First in line. Was that a shot at Cameo? No, it was not. I'm going to be a proud member of Cameo. All right. Everybody, wherever you are, Canada, the United States, the UK, Australia, listeners all over the world.

Have a great weekend. Stan Hansa signing off for Quiet Storm The Mailman, the old boss Lil Debbie and Rick Hollywood behind the glass till Monday

This is an IHeart podcast.