NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Intriguing NFC Training Camp Storylines with Bill Barnwell

Episode Date: July 12, 2024

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by ESPN's Bill Barnwell to take a look ahead to training camps and tell you the most intriguing storyline for each NFC team. The guys open the show with the NFC East (02:25), where they discuss the uncertainty around the Cowboys' roster and the new look to the Eagles' offense. Gregg and Bill then shift to the NFC North (11:20), where they discuss whether or not Caleb Williams is in a place to succeed with the Bears, followed their reaction to Jamal Adams signing with the Titans (22:03). The show is wrapped with the NFC West (25:09), where they discuss expectations for Cooper Kupp next season, and the NFC South (40:35), where some think the Falcons have a Super Bowl ready roster. Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. NFL Daily, where we're four days in to realizing daily is both a promise and a threat. I am beyond lucky today to be joined by Bill Barnwell of ESPN, the best pro football writer on the interwebs, the TV star from Around the Horn, host of the Bill Barnwell show, the podcast, and someone who is wearing a suit right now coming straight from NFL live. thank you for just outshining me, Bill, in the first week of this show.

You know what this is like? This is like when you have 10 people on the field on a play and 12 people on the field on a play. The average is 11. The average is just right. I feel like the appropriate garb is halfway between my outfit and your outfit for podcasting. Yes, for the YouTube body. Sorry, I keep starting this way talking about what we look like when most of y'all are listening.

I do have my Jerry from Succession, you little slime puppy t-shirt, which I, I bought it like one in the morning with a Twitter ad. They work sometimes. Bill, I promise I am not going to bring up the time I saw you speak at some bar in Manhattan for football outsiders 15 years ago. But that shows how long we've been doing this together, yes. Do you know who was in the bathroom when I gave that speech and I went to the bathroom? Absolutely not.

No. Raiders head coach Antonio Pierce. Wow. And Giants great Antonio Pierce. was also the subject of the first question I ever asked at a Super Bowl press conference to Bill Belichick in 2007. I just thought he, I know he likes talking about other players more nicely than his own players. So I had some sort of Giants linebackers, Antonio Pierce, the history of Giants linebackers question. And he totally gave me a great answer. There you go. Love

Antonio Pierce. Love the NFC. Love this entire week of NFL Daily. and Bill, I thank you for helping me wrap it up. We're going to go through every single NFC team. We're going to talk just like I did with Mina yesterday about what we think is the most intriguing storyline about this team heading into training camp. Could be part of training camp. Could be bigger picture. I'll get going right now with the NFC East.

And I'm going to start with Jalen Hertz. One of the quotes that I found most interesting over the last couple of months was from Jalen Hertz talking about how it's going to take him time to get ready and comfortable with this offense and that need to rep it, rep it, rep it until he really knows what it is because 95% of this offense is new. And that told me this really is Kellynne Moore's offense. It's not Nick Siriani's offense. And that offense that they ran was wildly effective, should have won the Super Bowl, like had a much better offensive performance in the Super Bowl than either of the teams last year. That's for sure. It didn't get it done and then slowly eroded. And it really does seem like

Nick Seriani is handing over the keys to more. And I don't know how Jalen Hertz and the rest of this team is going to handle it. It's going to take some time. But to me, that's the most exciting thing and most intriguing thing to me with this Eagles team going into camp. Yeah, a couple of things. I would say number one, I want to see how it adjust in terms of what it keeps from the Siriani offense. I know one of the big things that popped up with the Seriani offense is that really did not have good answers for the Blitz. They didn't have a lot of like the built-in adjustments

that teams have. A lot of it was just Jalen, you know, make a guy miss or toss the ball up to one of your star receivers and let them figure it out and I'd like to see more built-in answers for the Blitz. But I also wonder what happens if the offense struggles early in the season, which adjusting to a new offense is going to happen

very often. I think there's real concerns about, you know, are they going to abandon what they did and go back to what worked in years past with the Siriani-style offense. Are they going to, you know, sort of be willing to endure some of the growing pains that happen as you adjust to a new offense? Because we did see them a couple of years ago. Jalen Hertz's first full season as a starter really shift the offense as the year went along.

And it was for the better. I wonder if they might do it again and have it for the worst this time around. And the patience just isn't going to be there. It's never a great situation when it's a do-or-die year for the coaching staff. Yet there's new systems on both sides. of the ball. It's a weird combination and yet I do believe in the roster. The offense is so talented. The defense I think is more talented than people give credit for that. I think they will figure it out. Another team obviously at the top of the division, it's the Eagles and the Cowboys

and it's everyone else. They're trying to figure out who their running backs are, who their wide receivers are. So this is one intriguing storyline to me that is about camp because I want to see how it shakes out. These are some position battles that matter. People were a little more surprised than I expected that Brandon Cooks was in decline last year because he had been in decline for a couple years. Yeah, I don't know if he's like done as an effective receiver, but he's not a great number two. And then you have Jalen Tolbert and Kvante Turpin and Jalen Brooks. I don't know how that's going to shake out at running back at Zique. It's Dowdell. It's Deuce Vaughn. It's Royce Freeman. Like I don't know if they're going to pick up

someone during camp for either of these positions, but I am. curious, who ends up getting the reps? It does feel like it would have happened by now, right? I mean, there's guys out there. Hunter Renfro's out there, who's a very viable slot receiver, has been at his best at the past. There were running backs out there who the Cowboys could have signed, could have drafted. They did not address any of those positions.

They've been talking about playing Deuce Vaughn in the slot, which feels like peak off season in terms of stories. I actually, I ranked the Cowboys, I think 17th or 18th in my playmaker rankings for ESPN.com. off season and expected more pushback than I actually got. I mean, CD Lamb is a, you know, a legit number one star and yet they're below average outside of tight end everywhere else. I mean, they're maybe top, bottom five running back situation, maybe bottom five, wide receiver two, wide receiver three situation. This offense would be DOA if CD Lamb got injured. And that's

great leverage for CD Lamb as he negotiates a new contract. And DOA, if Dak Prescott wasn't making them all look better until the playoffs getting under appreciated. Washington, this is an answer. We probably won't get fully until the regular season. I'm curious, you know, what does this version of Cliff Kingsbury's offense look like? But more specifically, does he have a little offensive line, magic? The nicest thing you can say about Cliff other than, you know, his handsomeness and his houses and his ability to, you know, make money, let's face it, despite like losing record. I feel like it every way. No, I think they did a good job with their offensive lines in Arizona that kind of got swept under the rug.

Like, they always thought they overperformed in terms of the talent that they had in the running game and past protected Kyler Murray pretty well. So they're going to need to. Like, this offensive line is not that talented and that, to me, is the number one concern with Gene Daniels. It's any rookie quarterback that would be a concern. And someone that didn't always have great reps under pressure, you know, most college quarterbacks do, but he was so good on the reps he was protected, that it was a big difference that I do worry about that.

But maybe Cliff can cook up some schemes that's going to protect his young guy. I'm really intrigued. I sort of wonder, is this going to be an offense where it operates the same way it did in Arizona because Arizona was one of the most empty friendly teams in football? They ran empty at one of the highest rates in the league,

sent five receivers out into routes at one of the highest rates in the league, blocked with five players at one of the highest rates in the league. And, you know, there's ways to make that work. It's not always simple. It's just, you know, max protecting and sending as many blockers as possible because if you have more blockers, that's usually the defenses will add on more rushers. It isn't as simple as saying, hey, we're going to block with eight,

send two guys out that'll solve our problems. But it also is easier to block with extra people. And so they did go out and sign Zach Ertz. I wonder if this is 18 that uses more two tight-in sets this year, as with Benson not there as well. I wonder if they are a team that goes out and tries to make Janet Daniels' life easier by having more people in protecting

than maybe there were for Kyler Murray in Arizona. Yeah, that's a good point because they drafted the tight end too and it just isn't that talented. I mean, these are positions that they're not going to be stars, especially in the offensive line, but you can find some veterans, maybe cuts. When I mentioned the Cowboys,

like if they're going to do it, they would have done it by now. It's probably guys who couldn't make other teams rosters, which is never how you want to build your team. But I have a feeling guys who don't make other teams roster might be able to make the Cowboys at least at running back and receiver. And maybe the Washington offensive line. Finally, the Giants, you're a recovering Giants fan.

You try to hide it. I always like to bring it up. I could bring up the QB battle because I think it's going to be battle. That's fun. I could bring up the front four, which is awesome. That's cool. But I do want to get your take on my take that this hard knocks off-season

is actually the best giant season since maybe Ben McAdoo, maybe even the Super Bowl. What do you think? Yes, I think it's better than the Ben McAdoo year. I mean, that was a good, that was, you know, Eli kind of,

wasn't Eli kind of great that year, if I remember? Like, that was kind of a fun year. He was. He was actually impressive with McAdu really turned things around after they went out and changed coordinators there.

I, I've liked it, Because it feels honest to me or mostly honest to me, which, you know, I think there's been like this shock reaction to it of just like, oh my God, they're talking this way about these players or like, that's how front offices talk about people. That is what you get from people behind the scenes. So I know they're hiding some stuff.

It does feel like I like Joe Shane a lot more. I didn't dislike Joe Shane, but it does feel like I like the people who are in charge of the Giants more. And it's put in a position where they look like human beings, which after the Joe Judge era, That was the exact, and they've got them an error, I should say. That was the exact opposite of how I felt about the Giants front office. So it does feel like they're humanizing the people who are making these decisions, which I think is nice. Yeah, can we lay off Florio and I saw Albert Beer write about it too?

It's like, is this going too far? Are they giving away too much info? And now we're not going to get cool content. It's like they're not giving away that much. This is selectively edited. Everyone looks great. It's interesting. Like, let's not be a snitch here.

those articles, you're like speaking into existence are the reasons why NFL films will be having some sort of meeting and they'll be printing out Florio and Breers article. It's just like, let's calm down. It's interesting. I'm just pleasantly surprised that to me it's been more compelling than a lot of the in-season hard knocks or maybe maybe even the camp hard knocks because we've gotten to I agree. I agree. And you know what? Seeing Drake May

break down a play, it doesn't mean you have a secret into Drake May. It's going to be okay. It's going to be fine. All right. I'm going to have you take care of the NFC North Bill and tell me what you got for most intriguing storylines. We're going north. Okay, so let's start

with the Chicago Bears where everyone's talked about how great the receiving court is for Caleb Williams, but what about the offensive line? They traded the fifth round pick for Ryan Bates, a guy they tried to sign

as an RFA a couple years ago. Ryan Bates was benched by the Bills after one year as a starter. He's probably going to start at center when he played tackle and guard for the bills. Nate Davis, they're a big free signing for me year ago at guard wasn't it mandatory minicamp was not good last year they're kind of relying on

him to be a regular upfront Coleman shelton figures in somewhere here but for all the talk we had this offseason about how great Caleb Williams the situation is and it is really great at receiver and with the playmakers legitimate concerns about whether the offensive line is up to the task on the other side of the the offense yes absolutely because we just don't know with this coaching staff whether they can provide like a schematic advantage for them or not. Like, I have, I have high hopes because it's Caleb Williams and like you have a lot to work with at wide receiver.

But on paper, it's not great. And I appreciate your professionalism bill and just trucking through us playing like the hard knock sound underneath the Giants. Because I mean, like, you're a TV pro now. You literally came straight from the set. I almost feel bad now that you just went from an hour of live TV to doing this. But yeah, bears will be on hard knocks too. That's a long way of me saying, like, that's cool.

It's fun to have a cool bear's team. The Iber flus glow up is awesome. And the defensive talent, at least in the back seven, is great. But I absolutely agree that is the number one concern for me for that team. Really, both lines. And it's why I'm not going to pick them to make the playoffs. Spoiler alert for an article or a podcast like months from now. Because they're not, I always go like for the teams that are kind of on the borderline,

which they would be. Like if who's the best offensive line, defensive line? Like it's such a dorky thing to say. It's kind of true. It just feels like it provides a floor for a team. And they probably don't have that floor on either side. Yep. Detroit Lions, a little more traditional fantasy football analysis here.

Does the James Williams hype survive training camp? Because it is easy to hype a potential impact wide receiver in May. This is the Sky Moore rule, if you want to go back to last year. Not so easy to hype them in training camp and into the season. James and Williams, of course, we can say, hey, he was injured for most of his rookie year. He was suspended for the start of his second season. I know he had a, he scored that reverse touchdown for the Lions in the

international championship game. So that was, this is highlight as a pro so far. But this is a guy the Lions traded up in the first round to grab. They saw him as a superstar. And it's what they need. It's like the one piece on offense they don't have is a guy who can win at all three levels. So does Dan Campbell still say he's the most improved player? on the roster by the training cap.

I hope so because Dan Campbell love him for this is very giving in terms of not hiding where a player is at. Like when he has a player he doesn't like, I'm trying to think of who it was. Was it Donovan People's Jones? No, it was someone that they ended up cutting Denzel Mims. And they're like, yeah, he's on the roster, like when they ask him about him. And they let everyone know, like, we're not happy with Jameson Williams. And then they flipped late last season, and I remember going back and watching a ton of Jameson Williams' routes, hoping to do a little segment on his growth, like, about what they're talking about.

And I don't know if it was all there. There were some really good, just regular NFL routes, like comebacks where it was timed well. And it was like a 17-yard catch by Jameson Williams. And it's like, you hadn't seen a lot of that. And so that's nice. But it wasn't a ton of them. So I don't want to get too carried away. I was surprised they didn't look for another receiver.

So usually teams speak with their actions, and they spoke with a lot of confidence. And if you remember, he also had a big time drop in the NFC championship game. But he also made an incredible catch. And I'm hoping I'm remembering this right to essentially give them a chance to kick an onside kick, you know, on fourth down when they were wasting too much time at the end of the game. So it's like he's giving you some nice plays. He doesn't need to be the best receiver in the league. But if he can give you 800, 900 yards and a bunch of big plays, they'd be thrilled. Yeah.

I mean, they did not replace Josh Reynolds after they let him go to the Bronx. goes this offseason in free agency. The Green Bay Packers, really fascinating what's happening here with their defensive coordinator situation. They hired Jeff Hathley from Boston College after he was the head coach there. And over the last four years, Jeff Hathley ran single high coverages more than any other coach in college football by a considerable margin. I think he was like, 67%, someone else is at 61, nobody else was in the 60s.

He was head and shoulders about the competition when it came to see. single high looks. And this is a league where it's been talked about plenty. I have to use my jargon correctly. Sorry. Single high being a lot of jargon discourse in the wind right now, Bill. One safety. One safety in the center of the field.

Typically teams have moved to playing more dual safety coverages, more split safety coverages, play two safeties back with the hopes that you're taking away the big plays, but you're also sacrificing something up front in the run game. Jeff Hathley is going in the opposite direction. And the Packers have spent accordingly. They spent a ton of money opening free agency by signing Xavier McKinney, one of their few free agent signings.

They used the second round pick on Javon Buller, who was the free safety in Georgia last year. That's two guys that can both play center field. But in a league that is more and more too high are the Packers going to thrive by going to single high coverages instead? I'm fascinated to see that too in C because, look, Halfley wasn't working with a full deck at Boston College and got a lot of love for his creativity there. So I don't know if it was personnel issues of that. That's partly why he leaned so hard into that. But we've seen it. We saw it last year with Jim Schwartz. And I think

he had more talent to work with. But defensive coordinators who take over someone who is doing a bad job and can get everyone on the same page and has a decent amount of talent can go from submediocre, which I think the Packers defense was last year, to good, pretty good. Pretty quickly. And so I'm optimistic because to me, they do have enough really good players on this defense to excel. Roshan Gary's off the ACL. Kenny Clark is still a dude. You brought in Xavier McKinney, which was really nice. You still have Jaya Alexander. Like, I like this defense fine. And so they needed something new. I'm excited for it. Any, any, they just need to be average. And I think the offense takes care of the rest. Yeah. But I feel like we've been saying

for years, like if the Packers just have a okay defense, they're going to make it to the Super Bowl. And every year the Packers have... I thought they were going to be awesome a couple years ago, but I choose to blame that all on the coaches. Fair.

Not unreasonable. Last one for the Vikings, very straightforward. We'd love to be a hipster and talk about like, you know, is Ivan Pace going to be the green dot in his second season?

Like, no. Is Sam Darnold going to make this an actual race to week one? No, I appreciate that. Like, you play the hits. Yeah, sure. We haven't had enough QB battle talk on these two shows

with Mina yesterday. And I do consider this a competition between you and Mina. It is, and I'm going to lose. You're both going to be winning. I'm the Sam Darnold of this comparison with Mina Kimes. I think Donald's going to win week one, don't you? Yeah. How do you think starts week one?

I think San Donald starts week one, and I think they have such a difficult schedule early in the season that I could see Sam Darnold starting for a couple weeks, a few weeks. They gave him $10 million. I think nine and a half was guaranteed, like or eight and a half was guaranteed. They paid him like he was going to be their starter this year if they couldn't find somebody else. They gave him more than backup money to ensure that he was going to go to Minnesota. And I don't believe there's anything different about Sam Darnold versus what he was a year ago when he just threw some garbage time passes and I think some week 18 passes for the 49ers.

He was not especially great in those situations. But we've seen Sam Darnold when things are perfect around him, when he has protection, when he has good receivers. when he's not trailing, he's been fine. And so I think in their head, they believe, hey, if we just do right by Sam, he'll be okay. I don't think that's going to play out in reality, but I could see them talking themselves into that because Sam Darnold is going to look good in camp because he always looks good in camp. Right. I was going to say, like, there's very little reason to think that J.J. McCarthy in his rookie season is going to look better than Sam Darnold at picking up a new NFL offense against Air.

Tim Donald's issues come when the pass rush is coming, and he just does some inexplicable things. And I do think he's gotten better as a pro because he had that Panthers season where until week 18, he put together a really strong string of games that was like, hey, I can be a league average quarterback. And he collapsed in week 18,

and that always stuck in my mind. And he'll throw that in there. But he's a real dude. And he's more talented than J.J. McCarthy was coming out of college, too. So I think they're going to fall in love with him. It probably will have more downs than ups once you get over a long regular season timeline and then you see Jay McCarthy.

But I have for a long time kind of been annoyed by the Darnold Hive. And I kind of want them to have one moment. I'm going to give them that. And I think this is it. I think he's going to have a moment because Kevin O'Connell's pretty awesome. And I think the situation for either quarterback is great.

Yeah. All right. That's AFC North, I mean, NFC North and NFC East. We are going to take a quick break. and we're going to come back with the other two divisions and even a little bit of news. We'll be right back. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you.

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Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow.

We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig into coaching strategies. roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Back on NFL Daily. Bill's suit really fits that music. It's just, it's serious. It looks like it came from Super Bowl 5. I love it. It honestly just puts me in the mood and let me know if y'all agree out there. We have an email address.

I was going to mention it at the end of the show, but why not now? NFL Daily podcast at gmail.com. Let us know what you think of the music. We're going to do. news here for the first time on this show. Look, this show is going to be a lot different, Bill. I launched in maybe the last completely dead week. Next week will be a hybrid week where it's still pretty dead.

And so these types of shows, to me, are, they're preview-type shows. They're different than it's going to be once the news is happening. And it's going to be a real news-heavy show to start. But we got a little bit of news on Thursday. So Eric, hit the sound. Oh, wow. Touchdown! Unbelievable! Thank you, Joe Buck.

Yeah, the Titan signed Jamal Adams. That came out of nowhere. I like that. Dinard Wilson, who's their defensive coordinator, was his position coach with the Jets. I do feel like Jamal Adams is still a big enough star, and I know he's like that's not his playing level right now. that he is worth having his own little news items in a show like this.

What do you think, Bill? Well, your sound was seemingly dialing into America online. It kind of feels like that was the last time Jamal Adams was an impact player in the NFL. And that's unfair. I do think Adams, at his best, is a player who can be really valuable. And I think he has to be really thoughtful about how you're going to use him. Seattle seemed like they went back and forth. They found spots for him as a blitzer, his first year, that were really valuable.

He got injured a bunch. He was not good in coverage. And I think there's a real question about whether he's going to be a safety or something closer to a linebacker or really maybe best as some kind of hybrid player. I actually really like the idea of him being in Mike McDonald's defense before they cut him, which I had to cut him for cap reasons, for financial reasons. He was making too much money. But I do wonder, you know, going forward.

If he plays regularly, I would assume he'll be, at least on paper, a safety. But how often does he play in the box? How often is he blitzing the quarterback? Because that's really what his aim is at this point. You don't want him in coverage. You don't want him against tight ends. You don't want him against slot receivers. You don't want him against Debo Samuel.

But rushing the quarterback, being a guy who does, you know, factor in when you're blitzing, I feel like that is kind of a useful player in the right spot. Yeah, Dinard Wilson, who, as you know, Bill, comes from, Baltimore and the Mike McDonald tree. We're going to talk about that on Monday, actually, with Nate Tyson and Jordan Rodriguez. Oh, wow. You're pulling out the stars.

Yeah, it is. We're going big in the first week. I'm excited about that show. This defense is weird. Kenneth Murray is heavily involved. Also a player that hasn't been great in coverage. Like, I love the Legerius Sneed pickup. It seems uneven.

We don't know much about Wilson. I think it's a below average group in terms of talent. but I think Jamal Adams is worth a shot. Like these prices, like he absolutely is worth a shot. Also worth a shot, the NFC West. I'm going to do my most intriguing thing to start with about the Arizona Cardinals going into this year. And it's just Kyler year two in Drew Petzig's offense. Kyle Murray's 26 years old.

Like I could do the whole like, he's only this much older than Michael Pennix. But it's a thing. Like we do not need to write the book on Kyler Murray. We have seen players that talented who, in their first. four or five years of their career, they're good and you see the talent, but they're maybe not exactly what you expect. And they get more mature. They get more football intelligent. They get more emotionally intelligent. They take big hits like a torn ACL that keeps you out for half a season. And you come back and I thought he was a nice fit last year. I went back and watched his

offseason tape. And I thought he did some things just from a plane from the pocket perspective and making good decisions that he hadn't always done before, and he wasn't quite all the way there physically, but he was pretty good. And a full year healthy in this offense with Marvin Harrison Jr. I'm really excited because to me, he is still box office and like he gets, I believe, slept on a little bit as a guy that's like, would it be that shocking if Kyler Murray when Bill Barnwell is writing his week eight MVP, like bladder? I know you do that. I used to do that. Like that Kyler Murray's on it. He's literally been on it like twice. before. It would not be that shocking if it happens again, where he just like starts really hot

and is the old exciting Kyler Murray. The way you said I used to, like it was just, oh my God, that was something, that was something, you know, I don't, I'm above that now. But in the past, I used to do that. I used to do it weekly. That's all that was in my mind. I assigned it to myself. It was fun. I should do it here. I should do it on the podcast. It's fun. You have every right to do that. I think the thing about Kyler Murray that makes that so accurate is this isn't like an Andy Dalton situation where Andy Dalton was kind of okay for four or five years and then just had that one year where everything went right. The offensive line was healthy. He had great playmakers and he had a career year that was so far beyond when he played at any level

for any significant period of time. Kyler Murray was an MVP candidate earlier in his career at midseason. I think that was the year, I want to say the Bills Hail Mary year, right? They beat the Bills in that game. And if things fell off a cliff, but yes. Yes. No pun intended. At that point of the year, it would not have been shocking in the slightest to go and talk about Kyler Murray as a, not an MVP favorite, but certainly deep in the MVP discussion. And we have not seen him, number one, with all of all of him being true. We've only seen him in a Cliff King's beginning of her offense before last year, which Cliff might not be a great NFLOC.

That's not out of their own possibility that he's upgraded massively offensive coordinator, Richard Petting. He has not been 100%, which in last year he was, like you said. He was better. He could run, but he was not necessarily consistently 100%. And last year, I believe when he came back, Marquise Brown was pretty much hurt for the vast majority of that stretch without the entire stretch, which meant he had probably bottom three NFL wide receivers for that entire stretch.

He had Tray McBride, which helps, and James Connor was really good last year. But now you're adding a legit potential number one receiver in Marvin Harrison. To me, I think it's so much. better around him this year, that that's absolutely within the range of outcomes where Kyler Murray is an MVP caliber campaign. It's also, he could be the 24th best quarterback in football. Oh, see, that's where I push back. I don't think he could be. I mean, as long as he's healthy, I think his floor is middle, middle of the pack. And I know there's more good quarterbacks than you think when you actually write out the list, you're like, wow, the 17th best

quarterback is pretty good. But to me, that's his floor. That's how much I believe in him. And I think this offense ran really well, for the most part, like schematically, it was a really good running game at the end of the last year, and he'll help that. And yeah, I expect Marvin Harrison, Jr. to be awesome. Maybe I'm just projecting, but Trey McBride already is awesome to me. He could be a top five quarterback. I don't know why I went, or top five tight end. I don't know why I went MVP. Like, I guess just put a, I was not playing that. You put a mic in front of me, and it's like, I just feel like I got to go first take. I just, I'm excited. I'm excited to see what he, what he does. Let's go to the Rams. Little drum beat this offseason. Got to be careful.

in OTAs. This does tend to happen, but the Cooper Cup revival season is just, it's been sprinkled out there. We're friends with J.B. Long, who's there, play-by-play announcer, and I've seen in a couple other plays, just people just who are there, and they just see what cups look like this offseason. And maybe it's just hope. They're hoping for this guy who put together one of the all-time great wide receiver seasons only a couple years ago that he could get back to where even close to where he was because he was so far from that last year. And just health-wise, we're not going to learn much other than he needs to get to week one like that. But by all accounts, he's looking explosive in a way that he maybe hasn't, even in OTAs, even in practices

for a couple of years. So that's just one thing I'm intrigued by in watching. Because I think they need that to be as good as everyone thinks their offense is going to be. Our friend Mina had them, I think, number two in her best offenses. I think that only happens if Cup is, is close to where he was a couple of years ago. Showing Faye is going to make the Hall of Fame one day, and I'm going to be grumbling about the 2020 season when they were down like two touchdowns in the fourth quarter, and he was still throwing like bubble screens to Cooper Cup.

And I'm like, you have a, he's the only good player on your offense. You're going to get ruined if he gets hurt. And then, of course, he did get hurt, and then missed the chunk of 2022. And then he was, even when he was playing last year, the rest rest of where he was on 100%. They kept insisting he was healthy

and Cooper Cup would go like the entire game and get one target. So I'm still skeptical he was 100% for when he was on the field last year. He absolutely wasn't. You could just tell what his movement. He wasn't. And to me, having Pooka Nakua goes a long way. I don't think

he has to be the guy from the crazy season, which is looming more and more like a huge outlier. But the other factor here is I'm not sure Kyron Williams is going to be there because Kairn Williams has a history of foot injuries. Shum McVeigh has a history of downplaying or flat out lying about the severity of injuries.

You know, if you have Kairn and you have Nakua, I think you can get by without Kup, but when they had all three in the field last year, Matthew Stafford would have been number two in the NFL and QBR, which maybe relates to why Mina was so optimistic about their chances. But I think Cup, you can't count on Cup. Like even if you're feeling good about him right now, he's a receiver.

I think he's, is he 30 or 31 now? Is that my talk to say that? You know, you're not at that age. I don't think you can count on any receiver to be as good as they were three or four years ago. That is just the reality of aging curves in the NFL. I don't think he's going to fall off a cliff, but I do think if you can get what you got from him when he was healthy last year for a full season, I think you'd be happy with that.

I need more. I need more. He was not. He was just, he was just a guy last year. I think he would say that. And I think that's why the people around the team, they knew what he was really going through. And I think they feel, at least for now, that he's not going through that in a way that probably hasn't been true since, yeah, that season 2021. He is 31 years old. So he can be in number, he can even be a number two. That's a great point about Kyron Williams and their actions drafting Blake Corum might speak to that. And he might do a pretty good facsimile if Kyron Williams isn't right. I'm looking at the 49ers next. And just wondering if and how they keep everyone happy,

even in a world where Brandon IUke gets his contract, there's just a lot there. And they've done a great job with it. But George Kiddles coming off a pretty serious core muscle surgery injury. He doesn't seem like he'd be unhappy if he's not getting enough targets. But I think he was having more fun last year when he was back to being like George Kittal. So you have Iuk, you have, you have Debo. Maybe it's his last year with the team.

You have a first round pick. in Pearsall. You have a guy in Joanne Jennings, who's low drama, certainly, but just got a contract too. And it's a lot of mouths to feed. And I hate it for the 49ers and their fans that I think a team that's been this close year after year after year, they have a lot of the same negatives of what happens when you win a Super Bowl without actually having won the Super Bowl. Like the disease of more that Pat Riley likes to talk about and the expectations and you being circled on everyone's scheduling. They have all of that stuff. and it's just hard.

And they've done a great job kind of keeping it together. I give them so much respect for, I think that's the hardest thing to do in the NFL is like make the final four or the final eight almost every year.

And they've done it. But I do worry about the human side of this. Can they kind of keep everyone happy with their roles, especially the skill position guys? So what I'm going to say sounds dumb. And usually when I say that, it actually is dumb.

But I swear it's not. They benefit in a way even thinking this in my head, I feel dumb. They benefit in a way from how often their star players get injured. Yes, right? I get it. Like, they're an element of,

okay, well, George's missing a couple of games. I guess we're going to have to go with more, you know, more Debo in the offense of playing this week. Oh, Debo is hurt? Well, George, Brett and Ike's going to be the focal point of the offense. CMC's banged up. Okay, we're going to throw the ball more. Like, it almost benefits them in a way

because you don't want to lose those guys for the entire season. You want to have them healthy for the postseason. But when you have Debo missed a couple of games, I think that has sort of like natural built-in windows for other guys to get the ball more. And it opens up opportunities for Joanne Jennings. It opens up an opportunity for Pearsall to play more. I don't want to see anyone get injured,

but it feels like that's the way to do it, or just play faster, or just turn into the chip Kelly Eagles and just play as fast as possible and get as many plays as possible as the way for the 90s to do this. Yeah, the positive. spin to that, which is, is that they can survive injuries in a way that just other teams can't. And they're built for it. And injuries are going to happen. So you're absolutely right. And so

that it's a great, it's a great retort. And it's absolutely true what you're saying about people getting there. It's like one of the reasons the Celtics had one of the greatest seasons in the regular season of all time is all the guys that would take games out. Like they loved it when two of their five best players were off because then Jalen Brown and Derek White could just eat for a night. And And then they'd be off for a couple of nights in Tatum and Holiday could, or Porzingas could eat for a night. And it's like, yeah, it kind of works better that way if everyone takes a turn. It's like this podcast, you know, you eat, I eat, the Seahawks eat. They are the last team in the NFC West I want to talk about.

And yeah, I'm, I just am intrigued by how Mike McDonald is going to use a handful of specific players in this defense. Because he definitely has, I think, more tools to work with and people really think, like, Draymont Jones was a really compelling. player before last season in Seattle where he disappeared. How is he going to use him? Byron Murphy is just a ball to watch on film. I think the Rams wanted him and the Seahawks wound up getting him. How is he going to use him? Tyrol Dodson had a run in Buffalo that was really impressive at the end of last year and he's going to be playing linebacker. And then mostly Devin Witherspoon, who Pete Carroll did a great job. And I think any coach would, but especially Carol's great with the secondary. And just how is this defensive coordinator who is as good as

anyone the last two years, work with a group that I think's above average. I think it's a better defensive group than people give credit for. The edge rushers, like not stars, but deep. It should be fun. And I don't, again, it's another team where I don't think they need to be great. I think the offense will be good enough that if the defense is just solid to good, they're going to be much better than a year ago. You know, we always talk about, or I don't know, we even, I always talk about the idea that when a team gets rid of a coach, they typically go for the opposite coach with their next hire. So, you know, you would figure Pete Carroll kind of old school, but players coach, you

know, but a defensive-minded coach, maybe you flip it, maybe you figure an offensive-minded coach, a guy who maybe is a little more of a, a little more Coughlin-esque, maybe, when it comes to his personality. But they did not do that. They hired another defensive coach, which is going to lead to a really fascinating kind of reveal, right? I mean, on paper, you're right. The Seahawks will get they have a lot of impressive pieces.

I mean, someone even like Greek Woolen, who was really good as a rookie, seemed to take a step backwards last year. Julian Love made the Pro Bowl last year, if I'm not mistaken. You know, they signed Jerome Baker, who I think has been a good linebacker in his career. Boy, Amafé was good last year. There's a lot of stuff, I think, that we're going to find out. are those guys as good as we expected? Are those guys as good as their reputations?

Does Mike McDonald get the most out of them and kind of reveal that maybe Pete Carroll's defense was not all that great by the time he left? Or do we find out that Pete Carroll actually still a pretty darn good defensive coach? Maybe those players are not as good as they seemed. I feel like this is almost a referendum strangely on Pete Carroll on his way out the door in Seattle.

I mean, I think Pete Carroll was a very good head coach over the last five or six years or a good head coach, but I don't need Mike McDaniel to tell me anything. The defenses were bad. Like, go to your old site, you know, go to DVOA. You know, now you can see it at FDN. They were literally below average, I think, every year or maybe every year, but one for seven years. And he's a defensive coach, and they put a lot of resources into it.

And I think he was so good at all the other aspects of coaching that it made up for it. And they had enough offensive talent, too. And so you can't just look at that number, but they weren't an effective defense. And so I think it absolutely makes sense that Mike McDonald's going to do a better job with their defense. Let's take one last break. We're going to do our final division, the NFC South. And then we're going to wrap up the week just a little bit after that. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you.

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with Intel Wi-Fi 6E and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech search. Power up at Lenovo.com. what's up everybody daniel jeremiah here and i'm bucky brooks on move the sticks we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies coaching trends and how front offices construct winning rosters every week we study the tape talk to decision makers and share the insights you won't find anywhere else is the kind of conversation that connects the dots from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow we break down the draft analyze matchups and a evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year.

Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael F. Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast.

Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. business, but Bill Barnwell goes nowhere. He is a foundation upon which this business

is built. Don't go up. I told you I had to get on with customer service at ESPN Plus just to read your articles. And Zach Lowe's, I got to admit, it's both for you. But it really bothered me. Somehow my cookies were messing it up and I'm just too old and I had to get into the, but yeah, the best writer out there. You're going to help us go through the NFC South and then we'll do a little extra and take it bye. Beautiful. Let's start with the New Orleans Saints because there's like a weird game of reverse leverage happening in New Orleans.

Alvin Kamara, when he signed his deal with the Saints, I think was five years, $75 million, one of $15 million a year or his agent wanted $15 million a year on paper. So he had a basically fake, unguaranteed salary for his final year, a big leap in his final season, up to $22.5 million. He is not going to make that. And there's no way he's going to make it on the open market. But his agent hasn't holding in, I guess, because he can say, hey, listen, I'll take

a 50% pay cut if he guarantee next year. But now that Kamara has been below four yards of carry each of the last three seasons without Drew Brees, and he is not an $11 million player at this point of his career. But he also has no trade value. He's making a little under $12 million this year. There's no real trade value for him. So the Saints can't really get anything for him. So to make him happy, do the Saints who are generous with their money,

guarantee him a $1,000 million next year? Does Kamara get traded? Is there a team that suddenly wants him? I don't know. But what happens with Alvin Kamara in New Orleans? Love that you brought this up because this is one of those rare offseason stories that I think actually could result in a guy changing teams or real. holdout or something happening because I think multiple things can be true with him yeah he's not

worth that right now and so a holdout seems a little crazy and maybe indicates he's just not incredibly thrilled about some aspects of what's going on there in general and he wouldn't be the first player that that's true of but those numbers lie and I trying to check my bias because I love Alvin Camara, he's still a really good running back. Now, maybe not above enough above league average because the explosiveness is not the same, but his intelligence, his receiving ability, his ability to make guys miss in a small area and maybe turn three into seven versus three into 30 like he used to. I really do believe if he was on a better, more cohesive run blocking team over the last couple years, those numbers would look a lot different. But I also love

that dude, man. I mean, so maybe my eyes are lying to me, but that's what I believe. And I do believe this is a real thing that you're bringing up. Marshawn Latimore is another one. I know he showed up for minicamp too, and that does seem to have settled down. I think they want to keep Latimore and they know how valuable he is. But the Saints are a team more than any team in the NFL, I feel like where you could just see something like, oh, wow, that happened. Kind of like the Chauncey Gardner Johnson trade a couple years ago. It wouldn't surprise me in August. Yeah, I can see it. I have a lot of running back and rushing-related ones for the NFC South.

But Carolina Panthers, does Jonathan Brooks come off of the Pupp list in camp? This should be on paper a much better rushing situation. The Panthers spent a ton of money at guard on Robert Hunt and Damian Lewis. And if Brooks is healthy-ish, he's not really a lot of competition. Miles Sanders is a sunk cost at this point. Chuba Harvard has been fine, but it's not like they're going to have Chuba Hubbard, keep Jonathan Brooks from getting onto the field. There's no reason to rush him, I guess.

You don't want to have him re-injure his knee, but on paper, he's by far their best running back. And in reality, they want to do everything they possibly can to get Bryce Young back in a good place as quickly as possible. Yeah, it's a shame to me that as good as he looked, big power back with nice movement ability. He's coming off in ACL and it was in November. like that was not an early season injury and it just feels like they're not going to be fighting

and playing with a full deck early in the year i also look at zavier legate as a guy that was like maybe but it's going to take some time you know it does not seem like he's a guy that's going to have a full command of like the NFL route tree right off the bat and so the two guys you're adding to really help with explosiveness along with dante johnson and try to make this offense more watchable frankly. I'm just thinking of it from a selfish perspective. Like, might not be all the way who they are until 2025. So that's my word with Brooks. Fair. Legit.

Tampa, I'll go with one more running game. And then I'll get to the Falcons who are not Russian game related. Ken Liam Cohen and first round pick Graham Barton on track what has been a horrific Tampa Bay Buccaneers running game. And I will refer to the NFL's next-gen stats project here in 2022. The Bucks ranked 31st in expected yards per carry, and they were 32nd. And then in 2023, they were 17th in expected yards per carry. They were 32nd again in yards per carry in reality.

So maybe pin that on Rashad White. If you want to, you can pin it on the general offensive confusion, losing Ryan Jensen to a basically career-ending knee injury. But this is a team that has had absolutely no run game the last two seasons. and they've changed the quarterback, they've changed the coordinator, they've changed basically everything but Tristan Worf's and the receivers. Does this new group get the running game going for once in Tampa Bay?

I hope so, but, you know, what, this is their fourth coordinator in four years? Is that right? I believe so. No stability really since Ariens left. And Liam Cohen is a little bit like Alex Van Pelt in New England is the guy that's like testing the bounds. of do all the McVeigh-Shannahan-Tree guys work?

Because they were the guys that McVeigh and Shanahan weren't picking, really. So Van Pelt's the coordinator, and he was under Stafansky, and Liam Cohen only lasted a year with the Rams, and now he's with the Bucks. And Canales did a great job last year, at least with the passing game, and I think it was cohesive. Yeah, I worry about that. I worry about this team just kind of poor Bucks fans.

It's like they just won a Super Bowl, and they just want a playoff game. in the divisional round, and yet they do care about how much attention they get, and they're just not going to get much attention. They are, like, as off the radar as a team with as much recent successes as they've had in all these division

championships in a row could be. And it's partly because, yeah, the offense looks like it's going to be blah at best. Yeah, it does feel like the post-Curt Warner Cardinals, right? Like, you know, you guys made it to the Super Bowl, but if you asked fans to name 32 teams, they

probably get 30 and forget the fucking I feel bad. They're a fun team to watch at their best. Defense is really fun. They were compelling last year, I have to admit. Yeah. And if they had any sort of running game, I think the offense would actually be good.

So hopefully they can just get to like 24th in yards per carry. If they can just average like 3.4 yards per carry every single week, that would be fun. Atlanta Falcons, 30 second and final team in Greg's breakdown. Are the Falcons really going to go into the season with this? as their pass rush. I mean, their top two rushers last year by sack total, six and a half each,

Galeas Campbell and Bud Dupree are both gone. Their biggest additions to the off-season were James Smith-Williams from Washington and Rook-O-R-R-Roe-Roe, sorry, too many rows. That's on me, I apologize. And Braylon Trice, so a couple of rookies to the front seven. Not really a lot there at edge-rusher even last season with Dupree as their primary edge rusher.

You know, they have Lorenzo Carter, they have some young guys, but for a team that signed Kurt Cousins, which tells me, they think they're capable of making the postseason this year, for a team that has pieces in the secondary, kind of shock they did not do more to add pass rushing in terms of veteran pass rushers to this roster. I love that you brought this up. I love that you've been like a little more negative, I would say, than me and Mina in this exercise. And that's, we need that. We need a little bit of that. Because when I've heard, like, the Kirk Cousins, like, joins a ready-made Super Bowl roster. This team was lucky to be average last year. I mean, I'm not say Arthur Smith, like, did a good job maximizing their talent.

That's, that's not my point, but they were lucky to win as many games as they were. They had a profile of more of a five or six-wing team like the rest of the NFC South that because their schedule was unbelievably easy. Not even in division, but out of division. all looked like a little better. They weren't average. And defensively, you know, Ryan Nielsen goes to Jacksonville and you get Rahim Morris, who has done a great job as a coordinator. But pure talent, I think it's bottom five in just pure defensive talent. And so when you're a coordinator for a team like that, especially with a pass rush, other than Jared and Anyamata are good,

good inside. But I don't know. I don't see it as some Super Bowl made ready roster because the defense matters, and there's some questions on the offense. Obviously, Cousins' his health is number one, but it's more about the defense. Yeah, I mean, you named Jared and Anyamata. Those are good players, but aren't they both on the wrong side of 30? Yes, yes. And Anyamata coming off two really good years, but also two really good years in this same style system, which isn't quite the same in his best two years. So, yeah, and Jesse Bates is there, and AJ Terrell is there. Like, they have dudes, but it's kind of like the Cowboys receiver group. It's like, it kind of doesn't matter if you have two dudes in the secondary.

If you have two or three spots that are just way below league average, those other two can only help you so much. Right. All 32 teams. We did it. We did it, Bill. You did 16. I feel like I get half credit for this one.

But I'm happy to take credit for MENA's accomplishments at any time. So I'm happy. I did all 32, wonderful work by me. And, yeah, wonderful to spend this week starting this. this show, NFL Daily. And my after-dinnerment today, just a nice little way we wrap up the show here, Bill, is just answering like some questions I've heard from the listeners. I've had one specifically from a friend of a friend Dallas, friends with my guy Steven, who is just like, can you tell, and I've seen this from our listeners too, of just like, what's the regular season schedule

going to be like? So I'm just doing some housekeeping here, Bill. And I'm pointing out, you're like, yeah, of course we're going to have a great preview show. and I'm really excited about that and the details of that are coming and we'll have our Sunday night recap show and I love as an NBA fan I love the shows that go live right after the games and you can either watch it right afterwards or you have it in your podcast feed like an hour later or at worst if you're on the West Coast you know you wake up and you play it and so that that we're going to do all that like the Monday nights Thursday nights obviously preview the recap shows and I've told you who's who's going to be part of it I told you who's on Monday I'm really excited to a fun show coming on Tuesday with Colleen Wolf and Patrick Claibon and a special guest there. And so that is it from a scheduling perspective. And I want to thank you, Bill, for joining me and Mina and everyone that's been on this show this week and everyone that has reached out those closest to me and then also the listeners, look, it's been challenging. It's been a week, too. It's been a lot jumping into this. But I'm so excited about just

making this show better and doing it every day and like growing with it because it's going to get better and it's fun right now and I don't know I'm just so corny that like I love football like I really do and I love y'all and like I love being able to do this and I appreciate everyone close to me who's been reaching out this week it does mean a lot to me and if you've made it this far in the show you are one of those people you are close to me and uh bill is just laughing over there. But yeah, the email address is NFL Daily Podcast at gmail.com. Any thoughts, any questions? We're going to start integrating that into the show. So listeners can reach out. You're doing overtime, Bill. You're off. You did an hour of television and now an hour here. You are done.

Thank you, my friend, my longtime friend. Of course, Greg, a lot of people, myself included, are rooting for you. So I hope you guys enjoyed this week's shows. Hopefully I didn't drag it down. Happy you for the end of the week. You got the stars out. first, but anytime, Greg. Not at all. We wanted to go big first week, and I was like, Mina and Bill would be great. So, yeah, we will be back on Monday, as I mentioned earlier.

Jordan Rodriguez and Nate Tice talking schemes, getting dorky, getting a little dorky, I got to admit. And then we'll have some fun with Colleen and Patrick on Tuesday. Until then, Greg Rosenthal for NFL Daily. See you next time. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech at Lenovo.com.

Dominate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming, and performance that won't quit. So you can push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors. For the next era of gaming, upgrade to smooth high-quality streaming with Intel Wi-Fi 6E, and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech search. Power up at Lenovo.com. Lenovo, Lenovo.

I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy. vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6, we take you inside the game from

breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sundays. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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