NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Jayden, Josh and NFL Draft Primer with Nate Tice

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Nate Tice to get you ready for NFL Draft season. Before a look at this year's NFL prospects, Gregg and Nate put a bow on Conference Championship Weekend with a break down of how Jayden Daniels played (02:40), the decisive 4th down play late in the Chiefs win over the Bills (10:32), and Josh Allen's play in the game (22:25). After the break, the show shifts to players entering the NFL Draft including the quarterbacks (30:00) and a deep tight end class (45:55).  Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're always watching what's happening in, Duval. I'm Greg Rosenthal in my garage and really excited to be joined on this show by Nate Tice of Yahoo Sports. You can check them out at his great podcast Football 301 with our friends Charles McDonald and Matt Harmon doing an awesome job all season there. Good to have you back, Nate. I was thinking you actually were on our first week of shows and I had so much

respect for your time. I'm like, man, he is grinding over there. I feel bad asking you in season. And then I heard you a couple times killing it on Bomani Jones's show. And I'm like, well, if he can do Bomani Jones's show, he can do this show. So welcome back, Nate. I'm always available. Thank you first off. I'm always available for you, Greg. You know, you got to carry the G load around here because I got, I'm zero percent G. You know, so, yeah, you know, so that's why this is a great pairing whenever I'm with you. No, but thank you again, always for having me. I've always fun. We're starting to do the Super Bowl bookings. I know you'll be down in New Orleans.

And I mean it, Nate does a really good job. Recapping the league, he does a good job. Previewing games, just getting into the X's and O's, but also is a great draft mind. And that's why I wanted to talk today. Just switch gears a little bit. Do a little intro to this 2025 draft and talk a little bit about, you know, the games on Sunday night.

But first, when you say 60% G, I was thinking, We're doing our bookings already for some of the Super Bowl appearances. And I think we're going to get Greg Olson on, which I'm pretty excited about. But, you know, I was thinking, like, I don't know if he's going to struggle just confidence-wise being with someone that's 60% G when he's only 50. It's like, it's tough for the one G-G Gregs to deal with sometimes. Yeah, it's G-Rag and G-Reg. That's right. Greg's got enough confidence.

That's a great point. Right, right. He's halfway there, but he was, at least he has flow to make up for it. That helps it out. Flow for days. And since you mentioned it, every so often when the Greg clip pops up on Twitter,

there's so many people that are like, I can't believe this ever happened because there's still all the young kids out there, they don't even know. So if you don't know what we're referring to, I believe the sixth floor, crew, look it up, treat yourself, and get ready for that interview. I'm excited about it during Super Bowl week.

Okay, I have a theory, Nate, about, like, the championship games and about reality TV and the Super Bowl, too. I love Top Chef. That's my favorite. But I would say it's true of other reality shows. You spend a whole season building up to this moment, and then there's like 60 seconds of after the moment you find out who actually won to talk about it. And I kind of feel like that happens with these big games, too.

I'm in such a hurry to just move on to the next thing. So I did think before we get to the draft today, you've spent today grinding some film. I've been watching some as well. And I thought just a few final thoughts in this game, maybe especially about the teams that we're not going to be talking about during the Super Bowl as well. And you're such a good quarterback whisper, you know, just guy to listen to about I want, I'm curious about your thoughts, rewatching and seeing jade and daniels on film kind of isolating his play in this game specifically and then just thinking about kind of what he needs where he's going in year two yeah i would say just even this whole year and what you saw yesterday is yesterday was the first time i've seen jane daniels in

a while take a i don't want to say bad sack but a sack that went for yardage maybe that's the best way and i want to say that as a compliment because one of the biggest hesitations i have with jane Daniels coming into the NFL is he takes a lot of sacks he scrambles a lot he's not that big and he's going to take a lot of hits oh i don't know how that holds up the fact that this season i can't recall how many big hits quote unquote that he's taken yes he heard his ribs but it was kind of a freak hit um that he got on that one but i wouldn't say that as a compliment that jane and danels adapted to the NFL even more fluidly and better than i could ever expected i knew he would be more pro ready and be a guy that could have find some good answers and i thought

That's where I saw it again yesterday against Fangio. Fangio was giving him, Vic Fangio, defense coordinator for the Eagles, was giving Jane Dino's a lot of like, hey, take this. We're going to see if you can keep doing it. What do you do on the first drive? Kept doing it. He just kept taking the five-yard gains, the seven-yard gains, the six-yard gains. What we saw yesterday was the limitations of this offense. They don't really generate a lot of explosive plays outside the go balls.

There isn't a lot, you know, Terry caught the yak touchdown, which is really nice, Terry McLaurin. But this offense, outside of those go balls, those haymakers we've seen throughout the year, the last time these two teams played, two teams played Terry caught one, the Bengals game against the Blitz, Jane Daniels hits the one go ball in the end zone. Outside of that, not a lot of explosives. So what that puts a lot on the quarterback, a rookie quarterback, is he has to be precise, four yards, five yards at a time. That's hard to do against a bunch of dudes, but against probably the best defense in the NFL,

at least top three, top five this year. And I thought so good with Jane Daniels was he took those answers. You sound to be accurate. Some not have a lot of negative plays. He doesn't really put the ball in harm's way. There was one deep ball early. I did think he put a ball in harm's way. And in the end, he had the interception.

But the game was kind of out of hand then. But then he took a lot of the simple answers, which is good. That's what you want to do. I've always wanted to see him maybe push over the middle a little bit. But again, saw that yesterday. Saw the dig throw. He had to Diami Brown. That was really nice.

That's what I still want to see more of is more of those in breaking throws. The thing is so far that hasn't limited his production. limited his production. So it's more of just me, maybe seeing that next step because he's an older quarterback and everything. But I'm watching him and I'm just like, he was the better quarterback on the field. I thought, even though just like overall, I really did because I just don't think he makes a lot of mistakes, which is really good, on top of being explosive with his legs, which is really good as well. So I still want to see a little more as a thrower, maybe pushing the ball a little bit more. But as far as constant efficiency, I think he's just had a really good year. It's been a real

I would say a pleasant surprise, but the fact he's been able to do it consistently has been pretty remarkable and really fun to watch. Yeah, you liked him. I followed your draft coverage last year and you liked him, but you had him third, I believe, behind me.

Yeah, I knew that for sure. And the thing I was most impressed about in this game and throughout was just like, he would make mistakes and he would not repeat the mistakes. I think he did some things in the pros, which makes sense. You're totally focused on it. The coaching is,

better and you're surrounded by better players, although his teammates were pretty good in college too. And he improved throughout the course of the season. And man, I do wonder like year two, I don't know if Cliff fell into bad habits because there was another version of that game where it's like your defense doesn't have to be that bad. You're running game outside of Jane Daniels doesn't have to be that bad. Your teammates don't have to fumble four times. There's another version of that game where being a relatively efficient passer, wins you that game 23 to 20 and they don't really do much differently

than they did. His teammates just play a different game. So he was kind of in a spot where I don't know if it was a, that was basically a no win scenario the way that played out where he hadn't done anything wrong and it was 14 to 3. They're already losing. They make the comeback. But I'm excited. Would you still take Drake May over

Jaden Daniels knowing every based on all the film we've seen this year? Oh yeah. I would still take May. May's numbers were really good. this year. No one just noticed, you know, as far as like the underlying, yeah, the underlying metrics noticed. They were, they were probably sick of me talking about. Oh, I know. So that's not just like an eye test. Like, oh, big arm, good athlete, all that stuff. It's like the underlying metrics were good for May this year too, which makes me even more like chest out about them, I guess.

No, I think May is still the prize of this draft. I will say that Daniel, and I'm still not out on Caleb either. I think Caleb did a lot of nice things this year. It's a tough situation. There are some concerns that maybe I was like, oh, okay. that maybe I waved that away that maybe I should have focused on a little more, but you got a great coach for him, I do think. But I think Daniels was closer than those two than maybe I gave him credit for. And I also want to say he's a little older. That's that's the one thing. He's playing a lot of games, a lot of football. And then you can see that. That's a compliment. Again, it's a double-edged short. It's a compliment and kind of a, you know, I don't say a diss, but kind of a negative where it's

like, okay, is there more for him to grow into or is this him the rest of his career, which isn't the worst thing in the world. I mean, here's the answer to that, though. It's not. It's not. It's It's not. Sometimes we get into this idea of like, okay, he's played a lot. He hasn't played at the NFL level. He's still 24. Like, we are seeing the best version I think of Jared Gough right now. Now, in the end, does he still play a little bit like Jared Gough? Yes, but I still think he's like the best version that he's ever been. And I would expect that to happen with Jane Daniels. But that's interesting that you stick with me. To me, the NFL tape should be more important than anything you've seen before. So I would certainly put him ahead of Caleb now. biased, though. I would still take May ahead of them, too. I'm like, but I would have moved, I would move Jaden ahead because I've just seen enough at this level that some of the stuff you can't even see on tape are so obviously huge positives and are good indicators of a great career, like what he's done in that building, that like you believe that he can improve all the on the field stuff in a way that like it's, it's tough even for me to say May over Daniels now,

but since you did it, you're giving me the guts to do it too. Why I bring up the age thing is that, Is it 5% more growth from him 10% or where I think, and again, these are just odds you're betting on, you know, or is it May has more room because he was with a terrible coach his last year in North Carolina hasn't been taught anything. Is there more to tap into here? As opposed to Daniel's his last year was with Den Brock and Brian Kelly and the guys that have like really coached football. So that's kind of like the one, why like a May or even a Caleb, it's like there's more to tap into here. But I think Daniel and Caleb are much more. I think. I thought there was a difference between them as prospects. Now they're obviously much more equal or Dane knows something leading to it. Like you said, the NFL tape stuff. I also wanted to talk a little bit about the, the Bills game. I was glad when I saw a number that helped confirm just my vibes that I talked about kind of on our recap show, which was the Bills felt lucky to be in that game compared to some

other games between them, certainly the 2021 divisional round game. I was like, yes, I would have liked to seen the Bills win. And that's my bias. But I also was like, you know, the Chiefs had one of the highest success rates that they've had, like, passing the ball in a game this year. They had a way higher success rate than the bills. The bills fell on six fumbles out of six. Josh was a little all over the place in a way that was part of how his season ended, which I felt like the season ended maybe weeks 13 on, really starting with that Lions game, which was a great high. And then onward, it was a little up and down.

And that performance was up and down. So I didn't feel like they, I felt like the best team on Sunday one, which I always like to feel as a, as a fan. I did see you talk a little bit about that fourth down and you're a former quarterback and the condensed formation and spags, you know, throwing the blitz at them and wondering what Josh should have done. And I thought something was interesting today that came out from, you know, one of the offensive linemen who spoke to Tyler Dunn for his substack where, you know, he said they've been

showing that look to them all game and they kept not coming and they basically saved for that moment basically they saved to actually go and that's why the protection slid a certain way and why it ultimately hit so much what was kind of your view in terms of how Josh Allen handled that and then the offensive line and everything else in that play it's kind of funny is that one of the biggest areas of growth for Josh Allen has been the mental and obviously the accuracy and all that. But, like, he's really been, he's one of the best quarterbacks pre-snap right now, which I think would maybe surprise some people.

But he handles as much as the guys that we consider the sheriffs and everything. Like he changes protections. Like, Dack. Like, who else? Dack. Burrow, I guess, would be up there. That's usually the guys that you can, well, Burrow probably gets the most praise for it. And he does do it.

That's why he's great. But Dack is another one. But I say Josh is up there. Mahomes is up there, of course. Mahomes calls freaking. Mahomes is calling the front south as he's doing the cadence which is so absurd to me but that's what he's bored

during a regular season he wants new challenges you can tell Mahomes does so yeah I know we're talking about Allen and stuff but those guys are remarkable Lamar's gotten so much better at it too but no those guys are really good but anyways that last play it was interesting to me

in hearing that that I think it was Osirte's Torrance that said that that they were showing they didn't they showed that look but didn't bring the blitz and then Spags puts heat on making you do the hard thing on the last play of the game or the big, the, the high variance plays of the games. If you remember last year's Super Bowl, the one where Trent McDuffie puts off the slot, that was another one where it kind of haven't shown it. What happens in a lot of those got to have it situations is, you know, the offense coordinator is get a little cute. You know, there was a five-man protection with Khalil Shakir in the backfield.

Okay, they know he's not past protecting. And then last year in that Super Bowl, George Kittles in the back. backfield. They sent a kind of a, it wasn't that exotic, but fairly exotic blitz. George Cato is a great blocker. He's not a running back that gets trained in past protection. And it's not just the physical side. It's the mental side to pick up what's going on there. He just doesn't have the training. So like Spags, on that last play, the bill is often sliding left because that's what they've gotten the whole time. And on it, they should be sliding right. But if they slid right on it and just kind of like too long didn't read version is the little leap of faith.

It's really going like, you know, if we do this and we're wrong, we're guaranteeing that Chris Jones might be unblocked or the defensive end that ended up dropping might be unblocked. But if we're right, we wad this up and we have all the time in the world. And everyone's going to kill them if Chris Jones is unblocked on the biggest play of the game. Correct. But that's what Spags makes you dare. And I bet you Josh Allen in the center, McGovern, have done that look before and have adjusted. And I actually know they have because I have a clip against Todd Bowles that I tweeted out from this year, I believe. where he is sliding the protection into that type of blitz to a corner blitz.

It's just that once fourth down on the road, got to have it. Am I going to do the 5.01 level thing? Or am I going to just do one-on-one, snap the ball, and I'm going to play? And that's what Spags does. He dares you to do it. And Allen, who is so mentally sharp now and the offensive line, they were just dead in the water. Because even if they did slide it right, say, four guys, which is probably what they would have done, the corner McDuffie would have been free anyways, just because of a number count.

If they got the perfect answer, which is sliding all five, which you can do, that is, again, a such an exotic answer to an exotic question that it's like, that's the advanced level test. That's the Ph.D. level in the biggest play of the year. So it's just that's what they do. That's the stresses of those blitzes. And on top of it, the play before, they ran cover zero and they try to throw a screen against it, which actually was a good call. Mario Cooper becomes a little bit of a body catcher when he's stressed. So he caught it, takes a second, slips a little, and then George Carl Office made a nice play and retraced on it. But what I get what Joe Brady and the bills were trying to do, they were trying to get everybody out knowing that it might be a blitz.

You either want to get everybody out, all five guys and have five guys protecting, or you want all seven in. And then we really block it up. But then if you got all seven in the day, don't blitz, you're wasting blockers. So again, this is the conundrum of specs. and that's that's why he puts you know makes offenses look foolish like this or have makes breakdowns turn into giant discussions about everything in awful announcing articles written about your oh my gosh that poor guy Ben Solac just getting killed oh man oh man that is I get why I guess it's a hard answer what he was trying to say but holy crap what's what's everyone doing a lot of

heat coming at him yeah I think it's just it's such a complicated sport. It's why I fell in love with the sport really when I started to cover it. Like, I loved it, but, you know, it takes a few years to realize how little you know. And I'm always amazed by there are people that cover it their whole lives. They still don't realize how little they know. At least I feel like at least I realize how little I know. And you're talking about this 501 level stuff. And I find it all fascinating. And the sport works at at every single level. You can shout about it. You can simplify it. And you can also simplify it to the fact that they have Steve Spagnolo, who is one of the best defensive play callers literally

of all time, that to me now the resume he is putting up is getting up there with Belichick. And one of the reasons he's getting to that level is because he sort of has the luxury. It's not his choice, but it's the luxury that's all he's doing. He doesn't have to worry about running the team while calling the plays. and the resume he is putting up year after year, the Rams talked about the weight-bearing walls of Cooper Cup and Aaron Donald and everything. It's like the Chief's weight-bearing walls

include Steve Spagnolo. It's either three guys or four guys. It's Mahomes-Reed and Spagnolo, or it's Mahomes-Reed Spagnolo, and I'll throw in Chris Jones just because the resume that he's put up over this longest stretch is just incredible. And so you can understand all of that.

Then a guy like our friend Ben, you know, makes a reasonable point on it. And but someone sees a little bit of a little bit of weakness that and they attack because no one wants to be told that they don't understand the game. And they don't want, especially by someone that's like my size or Ben's size. But that works at it. You actually like nose ball. That's what's. Oh, yes. I just want to say some of the guys is like, hey, keep the same energy when some of your former NFLPA.

Right. That's a great point. How much kind of swear on this? Spout out some bullshit and that don't even do the work. Like, you know, keep that same energy for that, you know? That's what I just want to say. That's it right there because Ben understands it on a deeper level than I do. And obviously not as a deeper level as, like, NFL coaches and players and all that stuff.

But you and I know in the media, like half the ex-players are barely paying attention and don't really know ball that much anyways. And a lot of them know it at a level that I can't possibly fathom. But there's a spectrum. And some of the people with the biggest outlets and regular jobs, like, are following at the least. So you don't need to go too crazy with respect. And yeah, yeah, it's just like every field. It's a spectrum.

Like some are actually those geniuses. They're incredible and do all that. And I'll say this about it's not every player. A lot of these players, though, and I'm not saying the ones in media, but a lot of players aren't like, I turn on the game. I watch play one to play 60. And I watch every single play through on film on all 22. I had a coach make me a seven play cut up.

I had a coach make me a 12 play cut up. I had my coach make me a five play cut up. That's what that was quote unquote film watching for a lot of the guys. Not everybody. Quarterbacks obviously did a lot. But you know, some guys, yes, they watch every play. They're junkies about it. But some, you know, they just watch some cutups and some to even watch that.

So it's kind of funny for me to like really put their chest down and yelled about it. So, but no, Chris Jones, I loved your, you quote to me, tweeted me about, I think he had a, he had seven pressures in the first half. And I think you said he's probably put up the resume as maybe the best playoff defender of all time or something. That's sort. I don't want to put words in your mouth. I think I said this century. Yeah, just like, and it was more like the total resume. How we measure Tom Brady was ultimately about the longevity of it all.

Like obviously here in Donald is, is another level or even Lawrence Taylor. Like, there are a different level, I would say, than Chris Jones. but because he's always in the playoffs, like the resume he has put up now and the amount of playoff appearances and how many games he's literally changed the outcome of, I don't know. I don't know who else would be there

over the last 25 years. I don't think anyone. It's like him, like 2015, Von Miller was a hot year. Well, sure, that's what I mean. But Chris Jones gets it. He'll get a couple games every year like this. Dante Hightower had a ton of moments. Like he would be my Patriots choice.

Ty Law was incredible. for a couple of playoffs. Not Troy Brown when he played nickel for you guys. No, that wasn't one of them. How about Mariano Rivera? That's another playoff for four of them. But Chris Jordan says this is now what, six straight, you know, playoffs? Seven, six years, yeah.

Von Miller had the Rams year too. So he's another one. Aaron Donald, of course, just because he's Aaron Donald. But that's, I, because I was a great, I loved you tweeted that. And actually, I meant to talk about it on our pod. Because I want, but I always go along if you guys can't tell. And I started kind of really just thinking on it.

And I was like, man, I think that's the answer, though. Because I was trying to think of someone in the early odds. And I just couldn't, no one kind of came to mind. And maybe it was just because I wasn't focused on Patriots defense as much. And they're, you know, Eagles defenders, maybe Ronde Barber. You know, like it's, you know, for the box. Like, but that was only a couple in the early odds, you know. But even it's, you even think about like last year was like his pressure kind of ended the game in the AFC playoffs.

That's right. really pushed Dawkins back, right? Right. There's so many where it's just like you can, if you really look into it, he completely changed the game. I went longer on this part of the show than I expected, but that's just what we do. You did perk up for a second,

and I'm going to leave this Bill's section with this, and I'm sorry to our producer Eric, who's a diehard Bill's fan here. But re-watching it, it did strike me that the end of Allen's season was a little weird. He had more turnover-worthy play. according to PFF in this game, I counted it up, then the last 10 weeks combined,

which is not what you want. And you go back to his season, actually. If you think about, I'm trying to go through the games. Like there was the Patriots game, which was a really weird game the first time around. He did not play well in that game. They almost lost that game. Then he bounced back.

He played well against the Jets to end the regular season. He comes in, plays well, you know, against the Broncos. And then last week, like he was barely there in a way that wasn't his fault, but also like didn't happen all season. And I was just like, what is going on here?

Like Josh Allen was such a small part of this game. And then this game was a little weird. So it was just like a little bit of a up and down after, after what had been an incredible, possibly MVP season. Just ended on a weird note. I mean, shoot, was it early December when he had those games against the Rams and the Lions.

It was like, oh my God. Like this is, We're not going to see this. He wrapped the MVP up right there. But it felt like in these playoff games, at least last week and this week, it almost was like we were watching Alan from a few years ago, early Allen,

where it was like his biggest highlights or his best plays were the big arm throws and him as a runner, you know, except for the QB Sneaks. And that was incredible. Yeah, like props to the Chiefs defense. But anyways. But I think that's where he almost devolved.

into that, that first drive was worrisome if I were watching it. Like, I know Alan can be streaky early. He kind of always settles in. He's a guy that needs a lot of quarterbacks are like this, or not a lot, but a chunk more than you would think. They need to get hit once and then to kind of just go, okay, I'm good. Like, all right, I got kind of, I need to, I got, it was a little wild there. All right. Now you kind of get slapped a little bit. And he's kind of like that. And I could tell he was kind of a little juiced up early, which kind of reminds me more old Allen. But the thing is, is Allen of this year, and really of last year, too, because I think this year was a continuation of it, has turned into such an all everything quarterback. Now,

I would say the big arm plays and throwing far and the crazy plays out of pocket where he's one yard from the sideline. But like his instructure stuff and his accuracy, that first month of the season was tremendous until they ran into the Ravens, I think. And then the Texans game was really wonky. But his meant, I already talked about the Mendel side and the blitz side. That's very real. And then also just the accuracy stuff that work from the pocket. Like, he deserves to be up there. I consider one of the elite guys. It's just that sometimes in these moments, he kind of devolves into his, I don't want to say lesser self, but more of his id, you know, like he, yeah, you know, he listens to his id. I guess I do you even listen to your

id, but I guess that's what he works sometimes too. He has the touchdown drive to tie up the AFC championship game when he absolutely has to have it in part because of that id. And he made he made a ton of plays. I'm not trying to say he played poorly because he he made a ton of plays. I mean, he's making it happen with Matt Collins. And, and you're right, the teammates make a big deal. Rewatching that Amari Cooper play hurt me today because I was thinking like, oh, man, like Shakir makes that first down, I think, right there on that screen. He makes the guy miss and it's too bad. Mac Collins with a dunk, what a beautiful dunk, though. That was pretty awesome. Trusting Matt Collins in a big spot pays off.

Against traffic Duffy. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to come back and we're going to talk about the draft. Before we do that, though, I do not want to forget to talk about a show that's coming up next Monday. Nate, you're not going to be able to make it. I don't think you're in Las Vegas, but it's in Los Angeles. It's hosted by our friend Mina Kimes. All the proceeds to it are going to fire relief.

Thankfully, we got a ton of rain over the last 24 hours in Los Angeles. was just like never have, I've been so excited to just see rainfall. First of all, it's been like eight months, which is crazy or 10 months. Same here in Vegas. But there's a lot of recovering that still needs to happen here in Los Angeles. And every ticket sold to this benefit is going directly to fire disaster relief. And so Mina's hosting it. But I will be there.

Jordan Rodriguez of the athletic and of NFL daily and of heed the call. She will be there. Some other hosts from The Ringer, the guys that do The Watch, who are great. I think she'll have some other special guests that she's working at. It's at the Belasco Theater. It's in Los Angeles. I try not to ask our listeners for much, but if you're in the L.A. area and you think you'd like the show, please come out. Again, it's downtown.

It's really cool. They got a beautiful theater. So I'm going to be mentioning it all week, and we will have Mina on the show tomorrow. actually. We're going to go over all the coaching hires and everything that's been going on there. And we'll talk about the benefit a little bit. Shoddy thoughts? Yes. I wanted to mention that. Before we take a break, we'll come back. We'll talk a little bit about the Senior Bowl and the NFL draft. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech at

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Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Back on NFL Daily. And yeah, Nate, you mentioned the shoddy shots. We could spend a while on that. Yeah. But instead, we're going to break down all the press conferences.

There was four on Monday. We're going to break that out on our next show. But Brian Schottenheimer, Liam Cohen. With a very awkward moment, the reference I started the show with, let's listen. Jacksonville, the community. Duval. How do we do this together? Oh, no.

I'm going. I was watching that, and I'm thinking like that's the biting kneecaps moment of this coaching cycle. Just the facial. Just the facial. It was something about the eyes. there was something about as i watch it though i i felt better i mean it's just it's just a press conference it's awkward he might have felt a little defensive because of everything that that happened there and and by the end i was like this this is a good you mean the he said she said he's sick

she's sick thing that we had going on most fan bases it was a lot going on but yes we'll hit we'll hit all the coaching stuff uh on on wednesday show are you excited though about the shot in hymer era quickly sure it's a big shrug which I think is just what I think everybody's reaction to it. I don't know, man. People are trying to ask him a question. He started talking about Barry Switzer. And it was just like, oh, oh, boy, oh, boy, strap in.

The William Cohn thing reminds me of Brett Bielmo went to Arkansas. He was my coach at Wisconsin. And they did the Wu Picsui. And you could tell he thought he just had to do it once. And they did it like three or four times. And you could tell he's like, oh, we're doing it again. We're doing it again. But that's what that reminds me all with the dude.

It was like you got prepped by the PR. guy, but right before it started to say it. And it was the first time doing it. And it didn't quite track, but good luck. I want to see good quarterback talent play well. And we'll get into that more on the next show. But I think Liam Cohen's a good one for Trevor Lawrence. Let's talk quarterbacks to start about this 2025 draft. I preface this by telling our listeners, I'm a basic when it comes to the draft. I'm excited that we have this daily format. And I don't do a lot of draft stuff until now because I'm just in it. I don't have the brain power that Nate Tice does to do a big board in the middle of October I went and found.

And you're on 4.0 of your mock draft. So you're grinding through these guys. I am excited to go to school and kind of hopefully the listeners will be on this journey with me as we kind to learn about this draft class in particular. And this is really the start of it. So I just thought it'd be fun to have one of my favorite draft minds out there, Nate, you on, because it's senior bowl week. And we don't have to be too locked into everything that's going to happen at senior bowl week. We're also going to talk about at the end of the week how it went down. But when you look at this class overall, like not as much sizzle, maybe up top because of the quarterbacks, but still an intriguing class.

Like, how would you evaluate, like, the overall class, like, in terms of top-shelf talent? Oh, top-shelf talent. And, like, where it's strongest that. Okay. Overall, with the quarterbacks, I'll start there. Not a great quarterback class overall at the top and depth. I would say Cam Ward is my number one guy. And then, you know, Shadur Sanders right now is two, but it's not, I don't have a true

true first round grade on him. It's more of like a, you know, it's that next tier where I would maybe slot him in. But then after that, it's kind of, I mean, even with Schrader and Cam Ward is kind of dealer's choice and your flavor that you like, I'm, I'm bullish on a guy, Riley Leonard from Notre Dame. I like a lot of his traits. But the thing is, that's bullish in the sense of like third round, not like, oh, sneak him into the first. There's guys like Jalen Milroe from Alabama, who's a good athlete measured in today at the senior

bowl with very small hands about picket sized, which is always concerning, but very good athlete really improved this year. I mean, in after that. Austin Eccler size or eight and eight and a half or eight and three quarters, eight and three quarters. I love, I love that you had like an actual answer for that. Just Tom Brady hit Austin Ecclare with the small hands when he fumbled on Sundays. I don't know if you cut that in the broadcast. I was like, damn, Tom. That was tough. Fumbled in a big spot and you got Tom Brady talking about your small hands. Okay, Jalen Milro, yeah, he's at the Senior Bowl. Yes.

And the rest of the class. The rest of the class is just kind of, you know, again, it's flavors. Jackson Dart from Ole Miss has got some hype right now. He's also at the Senior Bowl. I look at him as an early day three guy right now. Maybe you have to die back in. But it's a lot of those. It's a lot of early day three types.

It's like, oh, I can maybe see him in the third, as opposed to sneaking them up in the first. To me, Cam Ward is the only one I trust from Miami is the only one. I would like feel okay taking in the top 15 and I'm sure he might even go top five but other that like outside quarterback it's a really good running back class really really good at the top and depth wise every round every type big guys small guys um ashen gentie from boise state it's going to get the most hype he's incredible uh he'sman finalist uh I have a top 10 grade on them and I feel good about it if he he can go anywhere in the first round I totally get it then you got shoot it's going from there you

You got from Caleb Johnson from Iowa, you have the Ohio State running backs, Trayvon Henderson, who's a really fun guy. I think you're going to really like him because he's really good in pass protection, he's really fast. He's like a pro. Yes. I mean, like my quote, my scouting is watching the NFL, you know, national championship being like, oh, wow, these guys.

I'm checking out. Okay, they really are, they really are going high because they kind of look like guys that would go high. I'm going to stop you. He's going again. Oh, yeah. Sorry. at the quarterbacks, because Milrow and Dart are at the Sooner Bowl. And so is Riley Leonard.

I know you liked Riley Leonard a lot at Duke. Maybe he had like a bit of a disappointing year. Milro seems like he's so physically talented that some team's going to love him, right? Yeah. But you, for instance, were huge on Anthony Richardson. I know they're completely different quarterbacks. they both had elite traits and are special runners or at least you can tell me maybe milro is not a special runner if you don't think so but has special speed certainly um when you look at he's a very

good athlete he can he can he's an excellent athlete uh yeah the richerson comparisons keep coming in but richardson still has he's three inches taller 30 pounds heavier and probably runs the same 40 and has a better more lot i think he's better i know what this is crazy to say richerson's feel in the pocket and everything is way better than Milrow, even though Milrow has improved and everything this year, Richardson always had that. That's why I was always so bullish on him. Still am. Yep. And he's very young. And I was kind of going to ask you about that because maybe that's why you thought it made sense with the traits that Richardson could go that high because I was with you. He was so good at avoiding sacks so good. I feel in the pocket and even going through

his read sometimes. Like, is Milrow a guy you think in the lead up to the draft could do a that he kind of gets in that mix because from the outside not knowing enough, he just seems like that guy that's like, okay, you guys can tell me that he's not a first round pick now, but he's the guy that usually by the end of the process gets pushed up pretty high. And do you think he should, basically? I don't think he should, but I think he will. I think his best case is like a Justin Fields, you know, like that's more how I picture him than Anthony Richardson.

Not really saying the top quarterbacks right now, but that's kind of how I picture him more of. And so to me, he's more of a day two dart throw than a guy I would bump up even in the first round. And I know people want to make the contract stuff and everything. As soon as you put the first round grade or one dash 24 next to a quarterback, he's on the field. You know,

so I'd much rather take that dart throw on day two. I would say the, the Bama coaches got, I mean, they were whoever took that job after safe. and was going to be under heat no matter what. I thought they did a really good job of streamlining things for Milro in the sense of like, all right, one, two, go, one go.

And I thought there's that old coaching adage. If you make a mistake, make it fast. I think Millrow was doing that much better this year. I wanted him to stay another year or figure it out how to do it. But he's entering the draft. So we'll see. Yeah. And he'll be in Mobile.

So he'll get a lot of attention. Yep. This week, Jackson Darts, a guy who. you know, played in a wonky offense a little bit at Ole Miss, bombs away, that people that are fans of teams that need quarterbacks this offseason and are just annoyed that they weren't in the draft last year, you know, and they're looking at this free agent class, and I'm just, like, adding up the teams, and there's just not many good options possibly out there.

I think Matthew Stafford's probably the bell of the ball, because I think there's going to be a sense that he's available, and we'll see. But then there's Darnold, and it's russ in fields after that. It's pretty slim pickings, and it's slim picking's in the draft, and yet there's about seven teams that are going to be looking at quarterbacks in the draft. And so, man, some of those fan bases are out there. They're talking themselves into, like, Jackson Dart could be our dude. I know.

What do you think? like what are his pluses and minuses? And if there's like a quarterback, maybe that that is there in Mobile that you think might have like a week there to keep an eye on. Yeah, with Dart, it's, he has tools, he has traits. He put up production as a runner and thrower. The thing with that link, if an offense, it will miss, it's a money play offense. And so it's like, watch Matt Corral just do the exact same thing a couple of years

to go. I feel like I'm having the conversation all over again. But the, with him, with Dart, is. that, I don't know, his feel, I've never gotten there with his feel for the playing the position. I think he does throw a nice ball and I do think he can make some nice plays. It always just was a Harris late to me. Like, you know, okay, there's, it's open. Okay, now there's the throw as opposed to anticipating the throw.

I've also just seen end game situations where he's not even making the right read. And maybe it's like stress, stresses him out, which scares me with a guy, especially if you're saying first round. He might have a week. This is the perfect type of week. he also has to show he can grasp a you know when kiffin has a quote unquote NFL offense but it's more about terminology but like as far as the depth of the playbook is probably not there at old miss um and i maybe want to see him like how quickly he grasped his stuff how quickly he can do one to two to three as opposed to like it's a lot of one and done because like if it goes this mfers can be wide open you better

throw it you know as opposed to like okay you got to progress through this so i've hesitations with him I see him getting a lot of hype too. But again, like I, you guys stick to what the grade is. Not like, oh, there's somebody's got to rise up. It's like, no, no, no. If you have a bunch of third, fourth round grades. That means they're third, fourth rounders. Doesn't mean they have to get bumped up just because they're QB3 or QB4 by default.

So he's one I'm kind of always tepering. And I would say, again, Leonard is the guy that maybe has a good week. But I think he's panged up after that college football playoff. He waited. It was like a week ago. It is crazy that he was. he's way 210 today. So he's probably worn down. I think he's like 225 normally. So that's brutal to go, I mean, immediately from the national championship into the senior ball, into the entire draft

process into your NFL season. It already seems kind of like a brutal process. But for him and and Will Howard, you know, who knows? Yeah, Will Howard. Yep. Who is also there? Who do you think the highest drafted player there is in Mobile, potentially. Some options. Shamar Stewart is there who is an edge player. Lerlin. Armand Mamboo, I believe from Missouri. I couldn't believe. I've been following it enough that I was surprised when my friend of me, Daniel Jeremiah, put him 11th in his mock draft. So that's a tackle for Missouri that maybe is rising lately. I mean, Charles had him in in our first round and people got mad at us and all of a sudden DJ bumps him up the top 11 and everyone's like, oh yeah, yeah, I got to check them out. And it's like, hey, I'm going to the chiefs at like 30 or

whatever it was that week and everyone freak the F out on us. Like, who the hell is this guy? It shows you're onto something. And this happens. Like Jeremiah, he doesn't, he doesn't throw that in there in a vacuum because it's a mock. It's not his top. It's not his top 50. He hasn't released that yet. It's him talking to the rest of the league and being like, hey, this is going to make me look smart in April because this dude is going to be the dude. And I kind of showed that I knew my stuff. So that's exactly it. No, there's, there's, there's some real good offense alignment there. Josh Connolly from Oregon. And boo, you just brought up. And why am I, there's another tackle that might be a guard. And for some reason, I don't have it written down right now in front of me.

Oh, then they got Jonah Salavit, Salvinia from Arizona, who's a, uh, a guard that might sneak into the first round. Wyatt Milliam from, he's a tackle from West Virginia. I think he's a guard. But it's actually a pretty, it's an interesting offensive line class. Like there is offensive line depth.

It's just not those, there's no freaky tackles. Like I really like Will Campbell from LSU. He's not at the senior bowl. But people are like, oh, he's a guard. I think he can stick out the tackle. But it's a lot of,

I actually want the Patriots to draft him, by the way. But I think the, the, this offensive line class in the tackles, It's a lot of like, is he a guard or is he a tackle? Is he good enough? He's a good athlete. Is he strong enough? Oh, he's strong enough.

There's a lot of just tweener types that's like, this guy's a starter. I just don't know which position he's starting at. And if he's like a Pro Bowl starter or just a solid starter. But I think it's just, it's a really going to be a big time eye the beholder, Offensive Line class. And I think someone, people are going to hit. Like people are going to find some pro bowlers in this class. I really do think that like late, like late first or early second types.

But it's just. got to be the right fit for all these guys. So maybe not a good one to be looking desperately for a tackle at number four overall, just because it's so deep. Maybe you can go to a different position there. I will be sad if Travis Hunter is as exciting in the pros as he is, that they won that stupid game against the Bill's backups. Because if they were won overall, would you, if you had the first overall pick

and you were, let's say, like the Patriots, you didn't need a quarterback, but can basically use someone anywhere else, where would you go? That's, well, first off, I would try to convince everybody that Cam Ward's the greatest quarterback they've ever seen in their life. Assuming that doesn't happen. First thing, yeah. I would go, man, because this is really hard to because it's not, I would go offensive line because I just do, I would go trenches.

That's my first answer. And to me, it's like, all right, is Abdul Carter is it will. Campbell and Carter I think is a better player I don't think he's as general people are throwing out generational with him it's like come on guys chill but he's a very good prospect and I it's like do the Patriots need that do they absolutely forget even the Patriots or think of it as a as a generic team because yes the Titans new GM makes the comment that they don't want to pass on a generational talent at one kind of indicating like hey we're not going to just take a quarterback just

to just to take it and everyone is like he must mean Travis Hunter and then everyone else is like, no, actually he means Abdul Carter, the interior rush. Yeah. I'm always trenches first, so I would, but I have Travis Hunter as one on my board. So that's what's hard. That's what's hard too. He, if you're going best player, we do not care of the position. It's truly BPA.

I would say Travis Hunter. But if I, where do you play him? What does he do? Corner. He's a corner. And I think he's a, but he's a special corner. Like he has top, you know, all pro first team every year type upside. He's not that big, too, like size-wise.

That's the only thing about playing both ways in the NFL. I'm a little scared about. I think he's a corner full-time and a receiver four that you play for eight to 12 plays a game. And I just think that's what they try to use in my Colorado. He is so raw as a receiver. I feel like he only knows a quarter of the playbook, which I understand playing both sides is really hard full-time, physically and mentally. I think it only gets harder in the NFL. So you keep that package real small and then let him just be dominant at a corner.

I thought of the guard, by way. It's Marcus Mimbao from Purdue, who I like as well. That's other guys, sorry. And then like when you're looking at like, if I'm, if I'm going trenches, is Abdul Carter, you know, so it's like, okay from Penn State. So like where else do you think like the draft is, is weak and in most strong? Because, because I cut you off. You said the running backs deep throughout great at the top.

wide receiver doesn't seem like it's as flashy a class as the last few it's okay where do you think the class is at its best tight end is the other position running back and tight ends where my eyes go and then defense align defense tackle and edge you know like that those are probably the three top spots like starting on offense like marj brought some of the running backs but tight end wise I see at least two going in the first round and like that and I wouldn't be shocked if maybe even another guy sneaks in there but Tyler Warren from Penn State is a freak it looks like a three down why that's also explosive I've seen kittle comparisons that's pretty extreme to me but it's it's not like like totally

out of the park you know like out of whack to like compare kiddle to that which is that that's but that's the high high high end upside I think DJ had him in the top 10 DJ had him going seventh which I was like, is that the Brock Bowers effect? Not that he's Brock Bowers or even, you know, the same player. But it's funny because you look at last year's draft and all that, you know, supposedly the Rams want to trade up for Brock Bowers. Everyone wanted Brock Bowers. It was kind of like Mahomes back in the day after the fact everyone wanted to be.

Although I think it was credible. They really did want Brock Bowers. And you look at it and the Raiders kind of settled for him because they didn't get a quarterback and thought, wow, that's high for a tight end. And now you think like, no, that's not too high for a tight end. that's a difference maker. It's the same thing as the Jamir Gibbs argument, except it maybe even more valuable position. And so you could see Tyler Warren, especially in this class going higher. It's my one, Warren two is a true inline why. Like he can put,

he lines up all over. He's wildcat quarterback sometimes, but he can play in line. Bowers is a slot receiver slash tight end while Warren is truly a tight end, you know, and I think that's a difference as well. I, and this is a big philosophy I have with team building. That's why I even said I would go trenches first. I'm always big about how many plays you impact. And that's why I'm always offense aligned first, the edges first, before I get to receivers and corners and everything is because I think they, like if you're drafting a guard, oh man, guard, really?

Oh, he's on the field every single play. And he's going to have something to do that, like, impacts the play 80% of the time. You know, 75% of time. While if I draft a receiver in the top 10 and we're a bad team, four, point. plays that, you know, 12 plays tops, you know, like that, that they truly can impact it early. You know, maybe they learn other things that can help out their craft. So that's why I, a guy like Warren in this type of draft class that doesn't have a ton of blue chippers, it's kind of more, it's, it's going to be a big kind of eye the beholder type

draft, just take them, you know, like it's BPA. He can play, he can stay on the field because he can block for 40 plus snaps. And that's why I think it's like, all right, well, that's a difference tight end than a guy that might be receiving only, you know. a guy that's only out there for 25 snaps or has to be hidden in the run game. Like, those things really matter. Well, or even more than a wide receiver.

I present to you the Rob Grunkowski-era Patriot. It's not that you're going to find Gronk probably in the draft, but you have a hard time telling me that there were many wide receivers more valuable on a down-to-down basis, changing what the defenses had to do than him. And that's obviously the dream. He's another one afterwards. Everybody want to Gronk.

Everybody. Oh, I least. these three coaches I've heard over the years, now I'm in a conversation I've been a part of, have gone. Well, he was my one, when we did our draft grades, there was one guy we had to go for each position that was the gold guy. And Gronk, we were trying to come up with a different grade

because he was better than gold. And I was like, well, why didn't you draft him then? It's like, oh, the back injuries. Also, he was monosyllabic. Like, I was there at his Combined Press conference. I never go to the players ones anymore. I don't stay that deep into the week. We actually haven't gone in a while.

while, but I am going this year, and I hope to see you there, Nate. And I'm excited for that. But I was there for Grong's press conference, and it was funny. I mean, he could barely, he could barely speak English. You're like, what is happening here? And they're just like, yeah, this guy at the back surgeries, but man, is he talented? And good pick. I'm just always curious that he was from, like, Jersey and PA, and he went to Arizona. There was just, you know, and I, if he probably asked him, he probably had a great official visit. So it's like, it's warm. Who's Warb? That's why I went to Tulane.

Last player I'm going to ask you about is someone you wrote about that you liked a lot. And just his profile and what I've seen from him gets me excited. Do you think Jalen Walker goes maybe a little higher in this draft because of the Zach Bonn impact? Is there any Zach Bond similarities just in terms of maybe what he could do at the next level? And is everyone going to be looking for their own Zach Bonn? I feel like off-ball linebackers are back to being cool again. We're going back to the 80s, like off-ball linebackers and running. We're back.

I love this. We just need more full-cage face masks, maybe some neck rolls. It would be good. No, I love Jim Walker. I think he's actually probably one of my favorite players in the whole draft class. I put him in my top 10 in mid-season. Even before the season, I had him in my top 20. And I was just kind of like, you know, all this guy does is make plays.

And Georgia is so annoying to watch, like as far as an evaluator because they rotate their guys so much. They run like 500 different fronts. And it's just showing off so they can go to coaching clinics and just go like, look at this play that we ran twice the entire year. Like, you know, like they just love doing that. And so watching Walker, it's kind of like, are you an edge? Are you off ball?

Are you doing? I just want them in my front seven. And I think I'm glad you brought Zach Bond. That's a great comparison. I mean, there's a whole bunch of these guys right now. Van deresh, you know, you know, for the Vikings. What other Wisconsin Badgers kind of name? Leo Chanel, you know, just name a badger.

But all these guys. Van Ginkle, you mean, not Van derrash. What do I say? Shout out. Shout out to Laten Van derrish. Van Ginkle. Andrew Van Ginkle, not late in Vanderesh. My bad. AVG.

They all look the same, you know. Yeah, right. Three, yeah, my bad there. But no, these guys, I think that's more of a, we see what defense of linemen where it's like, oh, this guy's an outside linebacker, but when we go to nickel, they're a defensive end, which now we just call it edge. And I think that the bond thing, what you see is,

oh, this guy's got past rushing ability. So it's used them on simulated. So let's use them on blitzes, creepers. And you're just, okay, we're still only rushing four, but the guy that's got past rushing chops is now rushing the passer against a guard. And then now we're dropping one of those outside lineback. We see the Rams do this all the time, dropping one of those outside linebackers into coverage.

and you're just inverting the rolls. So when you get a guy like Bond, who actually has some coverage shops, is good against the run, he's just, it's kind of one of these guys that's like, oh, this is what you should have been the whole time.

When they do come on, these creepers and simulators and blitzes, they're still a weapon and everything. So I really like him with the Cardinals. That's been kind of my like, ooh, I like you there. But really,

I mean, any creative defense that you can picture, I would like Walker on it. But again, like I said, when this type of draft class without true bullet chippers, he to me is a blue chip.

chipper. It's just I don't know what position he's at. So, you know, but I just think he's one of the best players, the top 10 player. So I think he should go high. Yeah, I always, you know, get a little worried about those, those type of guys, Isaiah Simmons, right? And the Cardinals, the Cardinals would know what to do with them. Your funky favorite tape grinders coaching staff, the Arizona Cardinals, they came through for you. Both you and Jordan were pretty excited about them coming into the season. And I know it didn't end well. Go over there. I mean, it wasn't, it was up and down. But I think if you look at it, the total view ultimately, they took a nice step forward for you. Yeah, they did. It's, you know, now I got, I got to study Kyler too. Kyle has become one of the

most, you know, kind of an enigma as far as studying wise. Because it's just like, he's one game he looks, I'm like, oh, wow. Like, no wonder you were MVP candidate that year. And at some games, it's like, oh, man, Kyle, what are you doing, man? Like, what? So maybe year three with this coaching staff is going to be like another leap for, which I'm excited about. I'm looking forward to. I am looking forward to the build up to the draft, the whole process. We got free agency coming up.

Really, the end of the conference championships, even though I'm really excited for the Super Bowl, I'm excited to go to New Orleans. And next week's going to be all about that. We're going to have lots of great guests. I do feel like today, as we're taping this, it almost feels like the first day of the off season because there's like there's literally one more game. And they're doing, there's a whole, as Ian Rappaport said, on Twitter, there's a whole parallel NFL that is going on right now in Mobile.

And they have moved on to 2025. We're coming up on the week where Matthew Stafford and Kirk Cousins are both like quietly talking to other teams. And then next week is the week that they actually join those teams. So it is coming around the corner and we're going to be covering it all on NFL daily. You, you stepped up in a big way, Tice. this year. You did it. Football 301. You got your own show. You were on NFL network on Good Morning Football. Yeah. Here and there. You were on Bumani Jones's show. All of it.

You're writing a lot. You're a draft expert. I really recommend everyone go check out Football 301 and subscribe. I'm always really impressed, Nate, when you guys do a kind of an abbreviated recap show and you'll cover like a big game and you do it in like four minutes and then you just move on to the next game. I'm like, wow, you can do that. That's amazing. good job that's why it's my own lack of hosting ability no it's it's really not like you're sure if you make a mistake make it fast just do quick just get through it very well said it's like i really appreciate really key points and and you'll move on and so you you've killed it and i'll continue to check it out and i'll continue to bug you during the whole draft process that's it

for today's show thank you nate play the music thanks like i said we will be back it's a big show It'll come out early Wednesday morning. We got Mina Kimes, we got Jordan Rodrigue, we got Colleen Wolfe. We're going to go through all the coaching hirings and the coordinators, a lot of weird stuff, the press conferences. And yes, when we're talking senior ball, you know football is back. We'll see you Wednesday. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down.

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Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision-makers,

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