NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Jets Optimism, Chiefs Priorities, and Trade Fever as Training Camp Begins

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic to react to the Jets giving both Garrett Wilson and Sauce Gardner contract extensions (02:20), the Chiefs giving Trey Smith a contract extension (08:50), the Steelers and Dolphins trading Jalen Ramsey and Minkah Fitzpartrick (13:20), the Steelers possibly listening to offers for T.J. Watt (28:50), the Bears giving GM Ryan Poles an extension (36:20), and more! Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Welcome to NFL Daily, where we feel like we are awakening from a deep slumber. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in Tokyo. for one show and so excited to see the smiling face of Jordan Rodrigue still with the athletic congratulations all the way across the Pacific Ocean welcome Jordan thank you so much Greg oh my gosh it's great to see you I feel like in football time it's been years since I've seen you like you look

the same you sound the same your backdrop is shockingly amazing you know yes anyone who wants to check us out on YouTube. You'll have to see the horrible fake backdrop that I have because I can't show you this room here in Tokyo. So yeah, it does feel like a while. Although if you've been listening to NFL Daily, we've had plenty of content in your feed. Thank you to everyone who argued with me about the top 25 players of the last 25 years, but especially thank you to everyone who helped. That was really fun to do. And we're excited to get back to our regular schedule. And this week is still a little different. We're going to do some news today, Jordan, and it feels like it's been a while, but really, it's just been two and a half weeks or so. We'll catch everyone up

on the news. And then on Friday, I'm excited for a show that you're going to do with one of the, I think the longest tenured player in the NFL, JJ Jans, and a special teamer, a long snapper with the Panthers where you're going to talk about training camp myths. That's on Friday. And then on Monday, NFL Daily gets the daily back in the title and we just start rolling where we are right now in terms of teams reporting. The Chargers are reporting today, Wednesday, six teams, rookies reported on Tuesday. The Lions are reporting over the weekend and then the vast majority of the NFL reports to training camp next Tuesday.

So that is what has coming up, Jordan. What has happened while I've been just hanging out in Tokyo. We'll get to at some point. It's been fun to see Andrew Siciliano and Maurice Jones drew over here. It's been weirdly NFL related. But why don't we just jump into the news and life will probably pop up as we're talking? And the Jets gave us a little news. Little Sauce Gardner, Garrett Wilson, back to back the last couple of days.

Let's start with Sauce Gardner because that came down on Tuesday in the States. I'm already over here on Wednesday. and yeah, a year longer than Derek Stingley's contract, but similar in terms of the average per year, he has now signed Soss Gardner through 2030. Your thoughts? And we can kind of combine, you know, Gardner and Wilson as we get into the nitty gritty of it.

Yeah, it felt just like paperwork that one of these was going to happen right after the other. I remember we talked on one of our beloved See You Next Tuesday shows about how there was just this really good aura around the jet. this off season, these really good vibes, Aaron Glenn being such a huge part of that, but Darren Mugie also quietly and I think very much behind the scenes kind of going to work in a very operational procedural mode where they had these guys not only show up to OTAs, which felt like the signal that these deals were going to get done. It felt like a show of good faith for everybody,

but it also just has felt like the culmination of a really positive and like functional off season by the New York Jets. You know, you got to go show it on the grass. But getting their stars, re-signed, extended. This is only the third first round. These are the second and third first round draft picks in a very long time that this team has extended,

which says a lot about the core talent that they're retaining and trying to rebuild here to make a really strong team. Yeah, I think we're going Mugi over Mugi with Darren. Mugi, yeah. Mugi, speaking of which, you know, that is my go-to pen. If anyone knows the Mugi, you know, brand over here in Japan. Oh, yeah, I stole one from you, actually.

You know, yeah, the 0.5 little clicker, that's the number one pen in the game. I definitely made a trip and bought some notebooks for the 20, 25 season and some pens. I'm very excited. You wouldn't be you if that was not a part of your itinerary while in Tokyo. No, it's mostly, it's mostly shopping here, shopping and eating. And a little sports, little baseball, a little sumo, that was amazing. Look, there was no guarantee to me that the new regime would come in here and immediately get these deals done.

That's actually pretty rare that like a new coach and a new GM come in. And the first thing they do is recognize like the great young talent of the old regime. And so I think it speaks to what you said that it's a really healthy situation. And I think Gardner in particular, it's some faith from the new. staff because the metrics would say, like in coverage last year, he gave up some big plays. He was certainly attacked as a run defender, maybe doesn't, you know, bring that part of his game as strong as some other young cornerbacks. And yet they looked at the overall package and they were not too worried about it.

And they even gave him that little carrot. Like if Stigley's going to make $30 million a year, you're going to make $30,000 with $100,000 on top of that. I know. I love that. I love that as a little flourish, you know, that like maybe buys half of the group dinner when you go out to dinner to celebrate this contract. I really, I think this says so much about at least the intent. We have to obviously see the team and the new coaching staff put all of this together. But both of these moves together and like you said, retaining young talent, but also I go back and I know I'm repeating myself at this point, I go back to having all of these guys in the building. together, not having like a rogue veteran, you know, out for an undisclosed reason away from even OTAs or mini-camp, having these guys being very open about their own intent to stay, to be, as Garrett Wilson said, you know, a jet for life. I just think that that says so much about at least the intent of what they're trying to do with this culture and obviously having two incredibly shining stars when Soss Gardner is playing at his best in the mix helps with

that. Yeah, and let's not get a twisted. Like, since he entered the league just by PFF coverage grades, Soss Garner is the number one cornerback in the NFL and still put a lot of good tape up last year in coverage. So I think it was more he just wasn't feeling. If we want to get a little dorky, and I will for a second, it is, they're not technically like new contracts here. And we're going to get to Trace Smith in a second where it's like that contract's actually like a real contract. So when they say that Soss Garner is the highest paid cornerback ever, that's off the four years that they're tacking on to the two years that were already there, and he actually doesn't have that much guaranteed money. Our insiders, and I trust our insiders first, actually

said it was only 60 million guaranteed, depending on how you want to count it. It could be up to 75, 80, whatever. But Garrett Wilson, for instance, it's reported as a four-year, $130 million contract that is fifth among wide receivers. And that's great that they got in at that level. But if you look at the total deal, it's six for 150, and that's the thing that stands out to me, the last thing I'll say on these guys, just like they haven't locked in for six years. That's so much team control. Basically, their whole career, if they want it, will be controlled by the Jets. And it was interesting to me to get that average above Stingley's. The Jets actually, I mean, Gardner's representation actually had to give them another year.

So he's signed for one extra year just to get it over. So really Stingley's contract is better. And that Garrett Wilson contract is going to age very well, I think by the time you get to 27, 28. Yeah. Oh, and when you say better, better for the player. Obviously, Stingley's is better for him as a player. But we go back to Mugi, Mugi, our favorite pen brand.

And he, I mean, this is team friendly. I think it's amenable to your stars because like both of these guys have said this is where they want to be long term. So it's amenable in terms of timeline. you, I, whenever I look at one of these contracts, and I know we've got it, we're going to move on to Trey Smith here in a second, but whenever I look at one of these, I think, okay, how long until they open that thing back up again? You know, you see it with quarterback contracts, with major core player contracts, yes, receivers, yes, corners, how long until they open it back up,

nothing is ever going to stay what it looks like right now. Yeah, it'll be two or three years if these Jets players keep playing well. And yeah, Trace Smith had a franchise tag, if you guys forget, guard for the Chiefs was going to be one of the best free agents this year. Instead, they gave the tag. And then right before the deadline, they give him a four-year, $94 million contract. That's basically all real. Like, $70 million is virtually guaranteed. That's the first three years. Kids, if you want to make the most amount of money possible, keep saying no to those contracts until you get to free agency, and then you get a real deal one like this. He is, like, legitimately the highest paid guard in NFL history now.

And like he got just as much or more guaranteed money than Soss Gardner, which is kind of crazy for a guard that some people don't think had like the best year last year. But the chiefs keep spending on their offensive line. That seems like a smart thing to do. He was a pro bowler. I think some of what they're paying right now is the essence of continuity or trying to build more continuity because you've obviously, you're returning Creed Humphrey. You've got Kingsley, Sumotea, Suametea, who's going to kick inside.

you obviously signed the left tackle. And you have Josh Simmons waiting in the wings with your, with your Jalen Moore, excuse me, is the one that they signed. And then you have Josh Simmons waiting in the wings for whichever tackle does not ultimately work out. And they've obviously got Joanne Taylor on the other side. So you've got this really talented prospect that you drafted waiting in the wings. You needed to shore up and solidify your interior.

You need some continuity on either side of Creed Humming. And I think that's what they're trying to at least establish here. You can't spend everywhere. The chiefs have been excellent at making decisions. But man, they spent on the offensive line. Like the resources, everyone you just went through, like, Juan Taylor's been a disappointment. He's making a lot of money.

Jalen Moore could be a good bargain, but they're giving a lot of money to a guy that hasn't played that much. Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith are at the very top now of, you know, the pace cycle. And Sue Mattaea, right. The Sue of Mateo was a draft capital. and Josh Simmons was a draft cut. So you can't spend anywhere. That's where they've decided to spend.

So I don't want to hear anyone being like, oh, they don't support Patrick Mahomes. The weapons aren't good enough. Well, there's a reason for that. And they are spending plenty on the weapons. Yes, they're throwing money in draft picks at the problem. Now, did they throw money at the right people? We will see.

Creed Humphrey for sure. But we will definitely see over the course of the season if they threw money at actually the right people here. Sossy. Athletic threw money at the right person. Jordan Rodriguez announced a big contract extension over the offseason. You're not doing the Rams anymore. Why didn't that make the rundown, Greg?

It's right here. We're talking. It's in the rundown. So you're now doing the whole league, which is going to be really cool. I'm looking forward to that. The worst news I saw over here, and it happened just a couple of days before I was hanging out at Sumo with our friend Andrew Siciliano, an employee for the Browns,

was related to the Browns. It was Quinchon Junkins. They're running back, who listeners might remember, it was taken in the second round, and he was arrested for Mr. Meener domestic battery. And Tom Pellisero released the arrest report, and it was troubling. Judkins accuser alleged that he punched her with a close fist in the chin lip area. And the investigation, the quick investigation, did show that there was probable cause and bruising.

And so we will basically just say, see what happens with Judkins, but the Browns have a recent history where they drafted a player who ran into a very similar problem, Mike Hall right after the draft, and the NFL with that situation put him on the sidelines essentially for a little bit until they figured out what his suspension would be and then he was suspended. So we will see on this one. Yeah. There's going to be a process with this, especially with so many details in this report being so readily available. So there's going to be a process that I would fully expect to be a quick decision from the league before the start of the season because it has to be. I mean, there's public

allegations, police reports, all of those things. You need to make a quick decision if you're the NFL. Yeah. And I know, for instance, like Rishi Rice had an offseason issue that's taken a long time to go through the process. But the NFL has shown it. It treats domestic violence cases differently and more quickly. Let's get to the news when I was over here that did that did break through for me. Like there was the one thing that I think Eric texted me about. And that was the trade, which is now a couple weeks old. But I do, I do want to hit it because I just, I feel like we should we should have that covered on NFL daily before we move forward. We're going to clear the decks today, Jordan, and that was the Dolphins Steelers trade. How about the Steelers getting Jalen Ramsey

and Janu Smith and a seventh round pick for Minka Fitzpatrick and a fifth round pick? This is what I was asking for. This is why me and Bill Barnwell did the 23 like most intriguing potential trade candidates. We've now hit on a few more. I believe Minkup Fitzpatrick, by the way, was on that list. Certainly Jalen Ramsey was. And man, you just don't see trades like this. You're, You're the Jalen Ramsey expert, but you can take this in any direction. What was your first reaction to this? Well, my first reaction was, I can't wait to see if the contract stays the same, if any was absorbed, if he gets a little bit of a raise.

Because the reason why, for example, the Los Angeles Rams, who were in on conversations and were trying to see if this could be something that they would do, didn't do it, is because of the financials of the situation. Obviously, they have a lot of love for Jalen Ramsey, the person, and the player. this was spicy. I liked this. I like this a lot because not only are you going to a team that very clearly is showing you that it's trying, at least trying to be in win now mode. Aaron Rogers finally joins the roster, trading for DK Metcalf, adding Jalen Ramsey. There's a T.J. Watt question floating in the distance that we're going to get to. But other than that, this is very much a team

that's trying to make its intentions clear for the postseason. And I like the first. fit in terms of the the personality spiciness. Like, okay, what people don't remember is like Jalen Ramsey and D.K. Metcalf constantly beefed in the NFC.S when D.K. Metcalf was a Seahawk and Jalen Ramsey was a ram. I'm pretty sure that even at times when, first of all, they started motioning D.K. away from Jalen whenever Jalen was in the sort of that power star slot position across from him. And you could literally see Jalen talking at him. why are you scared? Why are you scared? Come back over here. And anytime he would make a play,

Jalen would make a play against D.K., he would like rock the baby. And I, it's just, I love the idea that these two are teammates now. And not only should they probably have like a really solid conversation, probably over dinner and drinks, but also the fact that this competition is going to be coming to practice, I think gives the Steelers like kind of a juice that they've really been lacking on both sides of the ball in terms of that. that collision and that iron sharpens iron in the passing game specifically and with the quarterback. And I really, really like the idea of that. And then Johnny Smith is like Arthur Smith's guy, right? He's like his safety blanket. He always has been. He's been that way for years. You could

tell, you know, he's had his eye on trying to reunite with him for a really long time. And so I would not be surprised to see him take on a role. Maybe that certain people on the outside are not expecting in this offense. Yeah, related to the contracts, we haven't heard what's going to happen with Jalen Ramsey's or Minka Fitzpatrick, for that matter. I think Fitzpatrick will just stay on his current salary, which is pretty high. I mean, so is Jalen Ramsey's. I thought he was going to stay on his current.

And whether or not he gets an extension or something obviously remains to be seen. But they've done deals. David Mugeta and Jalen in the past have done deals where you're on the team for a year. Then you do the extension. but he's kind of in like mercenary mode at this point of his career as well. And he's making a ton. And I want to get to the Jonu part of it because I was like, why is Jono Smith in this trade? Like what are the dolphins doing?

I get it, but like the dolphins didn't have to do it. I guess they felt like they had to get rid of Jalen Ramsey because Jailen Ramsey just didn't want to be there. He made it clear that he just didn't want to play there. And they got a very promising player in Mink of Fitzpatrick. But what's fascinating to me is, like, how often do you see two players in what's basically a challenge trade past their prime, I would say, at this point? They'd have to prove that they're not past their prime. But close enough to it that you could see, like, another Pro Bowl or all-pro season left in either one of them.

In both teams, especially the Steelers, betting against Mink of Fitzpatrick is really interesting. He's 28 years old, so he's two years younger than Jalen Ramsey. I would say early in his career, he, like Jalen Ramsey, was on a Hall of Fame-type trajectory. I would say he has not been on, no longer on that trajectory. And we talked about it on this show last year that something was going on with the Steelers' defense. And it really felt like, and sometimes it got out into the media. Minka actually did blame some of his teammates for some problems. And then you saw a lot of sourced reports that, like, everyone's on the same page except one

guy. One guy is doing his own thing over there and the rest of us are doing something. And it seemed clear to me that that one guy was Minka Fitzpatrick. So he is a dynamic playmaker when everything is going well. I think Steelers fans would tell you he has not played as well over the last two years. And so he has a higher ceiling to me maybe than Jalen Ramsey does at this point of his career. But Jalen Ramsey, I think has a higher floor. Like he was still playing pretty well last year and now they're going to use them in a bunch of different ways. So it's a risky trade for the dolphins. But if nothing else, they get the guy back

that they probably regret trading so long ago. Mike Tomlin has also talked very, in a very Mike Tomlin, like not going to give anything away kind of way, but hinted at wanting to make certain changes to his defense, a player like Jalen Ramsey gives you this like master puzzle piece around which you can connect all different types of permutations and things because he can play so many different positions at a very high level.

That's why I really like this. So it's like, what ideas do you have for your defense moving forward? Okay, you can toss out, you know, the fact that he's jumped around from a couple of different teams, toss out the fact that he was on, you know, a failing Dolphins team that just couldn't get over the hump. He still played his butt off, by the way, even late in the season. And, you know, had some collisions with Vig Fangio. And he was wanted out clearly, even with our guy Anthony Weaver there. but still, he is still this player that you can build all kinds of different things around

because of all of the different ways he can fit into your defense. And you don't have to worry about large sections of the field. You certainly don't have to worry about your run defense with Jalen Ramsey, who's still one of the best tackling corners in the league. So I think that's what really made this sort of, okay, as long as we also get these other things that make it worth giving up, a player who used to be really good for us and still can be very, very, very, good. It's only 28 years old. We're going to have to get like Arthur Smith's favorite player back

in return, for example. I think that those are all part of the equation here. Yes. I mean, both sides got a lot, but I think both sides ultimately gave up guys they were okay giving up. The thing was like, what? I know Arthur Smith likes Johnny Smith, but the fact that the dolphins immediately pivoted and were in reports for like asking around about tight ends because they just traded Jono Smith. I was like, why didn't you just keep Johnny Smith? Like, you could have stared the dolphins down on this deal. They would have just done Minka for Jalen Ramsey in some former fashion in the end. They got to like a move up from the fifth to seventh round basically for Jonu Smith. And so that didn't make any sense to me that you signed like Darren Waller out of

retirement to make up for it. I don't know. That makes sense to me though because Darren Waller and Frank Smith, who's the OC over there, have a really powerful connection. Obviously they were like deeply in need of the tight end position, but also Darren Waller, if there's one coach in the NFL who's going to convince Darren Waller to like come back and give it yet another try, but also to have a past precedent of putting his best foot forward. And they have a really cool,

powerful relationship from back when Frank was in Las Vegas. This is something that did not surprise me at all to see that. If you need a player, if you need a tight end, but you also have to make sure that he's going to be consistent and like stick with the team, for example. Right. How did it not surprise you?

He was retired. He was making the worst music video I've ever seen. Because I've talked to Frank Smith about him. And their bond is like a really special thing. Frank really helped Darren through a lot of some of the worst parts of his life. And like if you need somebody and you're going to call someone, anyone off the street, yeah, you're going to look for the coaching connections there. So, I mean, no, it's not like we were going to mad lib it out of nowhere.

But seeing it, I was like, oh, yeah, Frank's over there. So that makes a lot of sense. And he is very cheap. We don't know what the contract is, but it said up to five. Usually up is doing a lot of work. Yeah. And he's not going to take away from any other types of like micro rebuilds that you need to do at the position, too.

Like you got a guy in the spot, but you're probably not going to stop there. Right. And so now you're not having somebody who's going to just sort of take away from whatever else you decide to do next. Yeah. They signed a guy, Farrow Brown, who's been like a. blocking specialist that was on the Patriots a year ago. And yeah,

Darren Waller's only 32 years old. For some reason, I thought he was older. He did have a lot of injuries. He is extremely athletic. And even with the Giants, like, produce them.

So the dolphins are funny because every dolphin's move in isolation always kind of make sense to me. And a lot of them actually have worked out pretty well. But they're very much run like a, like a fantasy football roster, where like how everything matches together doesn't seem to matter and like one year to the next doesn't seem to matter and that they're generally less than the sum of their parts.

I mean, they're taking shots. I don't know if you saw Asante Samuel, I guess you call them Senior now, talking about the dolphins. I mean, Asante Samuel Jr. was thinking about signing there, but basically Asante Samuel, the former patriot, called Mike McDaniel and Chris Greer like weak, like that they can't handle their players,

that they don't know what they're doing, I'm just like, man, I don't know. It is a big and probably very pivotal year for everybody in the Dolphins building. I would say that. Right. And like it's similar when you trade away Jail and Ramsey who didn't want to be there. And then I see a headline over the last couple of weeks where it was like, Cater Cohue knows he needs to step up as the leader of the cornerback room.

And I'm like, ooh, Cater Coahu is a nice story. An undrafted guy who's a good nickelback, but he's your best. cornerback. And then you're asking Minka Fitzpatrick to kind of solve all these other problems. We'll see if he's able to do that. Here's what I'm curious about when you are so blatantly and they have been for the past couple years. Like when they had their speed identity, that was you could very much tell. They had speed and timing offense with Tua when Tua was healthy with Tyreek and Jalen and like they could, they didn't run the ball enough in the winter, but they could run the ball. They had a creative attack. It's interesting. When you see the

deviation from that to now it's like this mishmash of different thoughts, different models of team build, different strategies, different. And some of its injuries with the quarterback, sure. But factoring that aside, it just doesn't feel like this is a coach in a front office that's on the same page with one another. Like, it feels like each one of them has an idea of what they want the team to be. And they like are in separate offices. And like, that's it. Like I just, I'm not, that's not be reporting anything it just what it looks like on paper is like they just don't seem to be rowing in the same direction you know and ownership is doing some stuff over here like it's a lot who knows so he's head on his yacht you know like in terms of you know veteran players coming out of

retirement here here was the quote by the way by asante samuel shout out to to him like if you look at the interception leaders of the the 21st century which is something that i did while doing my research. Asante Samuel Senior. I think he's at the top. Like, you know, he's a playmaker. Forget all the, he wasn't going to make my list or anything, but he was on the top. He said about the dolphins. The reason they didn't, they had to get rid of Jalen Ramsey is because they were too sensitive. They're sensitive. There's no leadership. Mike McDaniel is a pushover. Chris Greer, the GM has no backbone. They're running this team like a Little League team. That's fire. I love it. We need more analysts that'll just go off like that. Eric Roberts lets us know.

Some of the trade targets that hit from me and Bill at the beginning of the offseason. Of course. George Pickens, that was a good one. Debo Samuel, that was a good one. Somehow, Bill pointed out Joe Tooney. No one saw that coming. I mean, that was a home run. Minka Fitzpatrick was a fun one.

You know, Devante Adams didn't get traded, but that was close. DK Metcalfe, we got. And then Bryce Huff was like a smaller one that we hit. So we're definitely doing that episode. You mentioned T.J. Y. Yes. What's your question for you before we get to that. So when you were going for your 25 of the last 25 years, were you, when you were like in pro football reference looking at, you know, different filters of like ages and stuff, what was going through your head when you came across players who like you almost had had almost forgotten about or if you had and you're like, oh yeah, that guy. And then you realize they're like the same age as you. Like what was going through your mind when you had those little moments? are you trying to call me old like I'm aware of it I mean I that's why I embrace this uh challenge because I started covering the NFL full time in 03 so I was like this is it yeah like this is the Greg decade this is the Greg century yeah it's fine 40s underrated I definitely

had multiple moments and that's I think that's what you're looking for in your summer break where I was like took a step back and I was like these are the good old days they're happening right now, like a year ago at this time, you know, Emeka's not totally healthy and who knows what's going to happen with the future of the show. And so I've always liked getting older. At some point, I think that's going to end, but I don't think I'm there yet. That's my serious answer to your goofy question. And you know what? This is all I wanted. I finally baited you and you finally took the bait. I wanted Ernest Greg. I'm like, just give him a rest. Give him a break. Two weeks with his family, you know, soaking up the good.

vibes, you know, getting some sleep, not working. I'm going to get Ernest Gregg. I'm going to get him. All season long, it's Ernest Greg. All right, let's take a quick break. We'll be back and talk, uh, T.J. Y. You mentioned. is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that?

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What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the

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I can't wait to get back to the west side of Los Angeles where the weather's perfect. It's not with 95 degrees every day in humid like it is over here. I mean, it is the one downside of coming here every summer. I do love Tokyo, but it's like you're missing California at the very best time. But that is some high class problems to be complaining about. Speaking of which, T.J. Watt on the trade block, at least that's like the reporting. What did you make of like there's been back and forth over the last couple of weeks, the latest one being Mark Caboli, who covers them for Pat McAfee's show and has covered that team for decades at this point.

and saying that the Steelers have been quietly gauging T.J. Watts' trade value. Yeah, it just feels like a lot of posturing to me. I mean, if this drags into camp, also fine because it's T.J. Watt. And so why not give him some time off, some snaps off, you know, delay the wear and tear into when you actually need him? I think I would be surprised, kind of just watching him for as long as we have, and then that whole family, the competitiveness of that entire family. Like, yes, obviously, get what you are owed.

If you're a player, I am always on team, get what you are owed. But also, this team has made it clear with all of their offseason moves, that they're operating on a one-year mindset right now, right? And so I think that if you're T.J. Watt and you're like, okay, if they're really as all in on actually making a run or trying to this year or breaking past this like middle ground that they've constantly been stuck in for so long, then okay, you can maybe rejoin camp

when you are ready after some time of making a statement about, you know, why you're not there and really give it everything you've got to try to help this team get to the next level and hopefully the level after that. Because you have to look at this team now, everything they've done. You have to basically wipe out all of this multi-year

conversation. Even with the Medcaf stuff, you know, the years, you have to wipe all of it out because you're looking at a one year team build now. This is what it is. You've gone all in, quote unquote, first of all, trying to go for quarterbacks of high status and being interested in a possible Matthew Stafford situation, getting to Aaron Rogers, thinking that he's got what it takes, got what's left in the tank to really try to go out, first of all, the right way for him, but then also to push this team, going after the superstar receiver, going after the superstar corner.

I really think that you have to throw out everything about the 2026 onward of this roster and look at what they're doing right now because clearly that's where they're going to operate. So you revisit the conversation, I think, if you're T.J. You don't get what you want this year. And I don't think anybody needs to be as dramatic as to go for the full trade. Now, if you go for a tear down after this season, sure, maybe then you get serious about trade conversations, but for now, I think it's all posturing.

Right, because when Koboli says that the second, you know, they'd have to consider a second round pick eventually. He almost made it sound like one was on the table. Who knows? Would you? Because that second round pick is going to be the same in March as it is now. You don't get to use it in between. So that seems crazy to me. The downside for T.J. White is he's coming off easily like the worst half of a season that he's ever.

had where he did not look his best. I mean, he's a guy who made that top 25 players the last 25 years. Probably the most surprising to me that I ended up putting him on. But then when I looked at the resume at a hard time, Steelers fans louder than any other fan base about any choice, got some coverage that Troy Palomalo did not make the list. And that was a tough omission. That was a tough omission. There were a lot of tough omissions. The one I actually regret the most was a guy you covered was Von Miller. was the only one where I was like, if I had to do it again, I think I would find a way to somehow get Von Miller. But man, it was tough to take any of those guys off. Can I ask you about Bobby Wagner?

Like, what was your thought process with him as well? Yeah, he was in the top 40, certainly. I mean, when you look at like 26 to 40, it's crazy. If you were just going off all pros, um, he's, he's very close to right there. His very peak was special. But I think his very very peak to me just wasn't as long as certainly the Keekley or Ray Lewis who made it as his position and was too maybe similar to Fred Warner was probably the other one I even just thought a little bit about but he was Wagner because of his longevity like had to be considered he was he was in the mix well I loved the series um I was driving listening to most of it throughout my um my small travels through this break and like I loved it um when he was

Kevin Harlan was on talking, first of all, I could hear you smiling the whole time. I was listening. I wasn't watching. I could literally hear you grinning like an eight year old the entire time you're talking to him. And he was so nice. And he gave you, it was so cool. He gave you so many compliments like subtly through the course of that interview. I don't know if you've listened to it back. But it's so great. And then like him talking about like Aaron Donald, for example, right? Like just about the work ethic and. the sustained excellence and the small details that most people don't see when they're thinking about greatness or legends and they're only looking at stats. I love that you guys considered so many of those extra details for every player, not just for him. And I have to say selfishly, too, I went through and I looked at your finished list. And I'm going through a big transition here, work, life, all of that stuff. And I'm like, oh, my God, I got to cover so many of these guys.

Like, I got to watch them practice every day. Like, I got to watch them go to work and achieve these levels of greatness in this, like, maniacal disposition and way that it's very hard to explain to people who don't get to see it up close. And, like, every single one of those guys, like, Julius Peppers, Luke Keekley, Aaron Donald, like, those guys, I just, it was cool. Von Miller, like, oh, I mean, you didn't have it on, but it was just, it was so cool to hear this. this conversation and, like, it made me feel very grateful, to be honest, that we're living in a time with this kind of excellence. And I know I sound like Kevin Harlan, which is also what I loved, that he was so grateful to, like, be experiencing all of it. It just, it made me happy. The whole thing, I loved it. Well, we got, we got Ernest Jordan back in the house. I mean, it's,

I know. She's kind of always in the house. There she is. I know. She never left. No, you've, you've over-indexed in, like, covering all-time greats. Like, some of these teams did, like Panthers and Browns, weirdly over-indexed considering they haven't won that that much in these great, great players. I mentioned, you know, you mentioned the Steelers, everything's about this year, and yet they are a team that, like, never makes any changes. Omar Khan, their GM was signed through 2028 to an extension. Mike Tomlin's not going anywhere, like stop talking about, unless for whatever reason he wanted to go somewhere else, but he's just shown no reason to think that's the case. Ryan Poles, the Bears GM, that was a little more curious, got an extension to match Ben Johnson's one. through 2029.

Normally I would say these contracts don't mean that much because you can always just rip it up. But the bears don't always have a history of ripping it up. I guess they have

with coaches lately, less so with GM. So, man, Ryan Poles through 29 and Omar Khan through 28. It's fine. Yeah, and I think the timing of that,

I don't know. It feels like it's felt quietly like this. You know, Ryan Poles went out and obviously got the quarterback that they think will be the next great star in Chicago.

He went out and got the head coach that everybody else wanted for multiple coaching cycles. I think that's to his credit. There's also been issues with personnel selection, especially up front with the last iteration of this offensive line.

There's been issues with coaching and assistant coaching selection, maybe letting that previous regime have too much say over who their assistance were that they brought in. To me, this feels like a Ben Johnson statement almost. It's like you're here with Ben Johnson as long as Ben Johnson wants to work with you. If Ben Johnson can in fact be the coach that they think he is, it's a very, it's a very interesting dynamic, the way that these coaching and GM timelines constantly like ebb and flow across each other in terms of

who is really in control and who has the power at any given moment. So them being a line like this, we're going to see over the next couple of years, and I'm interested in that. Yeah, Ben Johnson's in control. Reminds me a little bit of the less need Sean McVeigh timeline with Matt Iberfuss playing the role of Jeff Fisher in this situation. And yeah, it's on polls to make it work with his coach because the coach is the important guy. Now, let's go to something Terry McLaurin said this week. He seems at this point likely to not be at training camp when it opens for the commanders next week. Yeah, I've been pretty frustrated. I'm not going to lie.

You know, everything that has transpired up to this point is just been disappointing and frustrating. You know, I've wanted to continue my career here. I've created my life here. You know, my wife and I have bought our first home here. So this has been somewhere where I've always wanted to be. That is courtesy of J.P. Finley, NBC there in Washington. So that's one that we'll probably be hearing a little more from. I think in the next couple of weeks in terms of him maybe either holding in or something going on.

We will see what happens with Terry McLaurin. So bad news in the NFC 2 over the last couple of weeks that Tristan Worf's, the AllPro, got surgery that was surprised. He was supposed to be back for the start of training camp, but his knee didn't respond as they expected. And he's probably going to miss the start of the season, according to Rick Stroud of the St. Petersburg time. So he might actually miss the first four or five games. of the season, all for a left tackle. And I'm going to really be rude to you because you've been on the other side of the world, but do you know who will be replacing him, Greg, without Googling it for at least the first

couple weeks of the season? His name is very familiar to me. Charlie Heck, I think. Yes. You got it. Yes. Charlie Heck, yeah, the swing tackle. He's been a little bit of a journey man recently, former fourth round pick.

But I was texting some people over there and they were really impressed with like, because it kind of. kind of came as a surprise, it seems like, to a lot of people. And unfortunate, obviously, we're so high on the Bucks offensive line. They're so well built. They're really, really well coached as well. And, like, apparently Charlie Peck has come in and just been like, yeah, you know what? I'm going to do my best and I'm going to be a pro and I'm going to fit in with the guys,

even though they've all been a collective longer than I've been here. And I just, I think that at least building that continuity as early as possible into training camp and him staying healthy is going to be really important. Yeah, they are a team that I think is built from the offensive line out. And Tristan Wirf's, if you're doing a draft of offensive linemen right now in the NFL and you have all the GMs involved in it, there's a pretty good chance. I think Worf's gets taken first overall the most amount of times that he's that good. He's that valuable.

So that's a big loss for them and what I'm expecting to be a great offensive season. but it's not like he's going to be out for the whole season. Huge blow to my Bucks Believership. I mean, it's a month. I believe. I still believe. I think it'll be fine. But, you know, I am high on the Bucks this year. Shout out to Kevin Clark, who made the most shocked and incredible facial expression.

I think I've ever seen from another human when I said the Bucks were Super Bowl contenders this year in the championship tier. Oh, yeah. come on that's Kevin great guy I mean he he's selling you there I love it I love it but they are I agree with you I'm that's the expression I'm giving you so there Kevin I have home court advantage on this show uh you know what one other item that that did make it all the way over here I was at lunch with Maurice Jones Drew and his beautiful family all his kids there he texts me like a couple days before he gets to Tokyo is like hey are you in Tokyo like Tokyo? I'm like, yeah, he's like, hey, we should hang out. I'm going to be there for a couple

days. So we went to, there's like a restaurant here where you can, I mean, it's kind of ridiculous, but you can fish inside the restaurant. They actually make, you know, little fake rivers and you fish while you're in the restaurant and then you eat the fish that you catch. And you better be ready to eat it because some of those fish are way more expensive than the others. And the second you catch it, like you got to eat it. So don't catch too many fish like we did because you know you're paying for all those fish but he is the one that told me Maurice that Najee Harris was in a fireworks accident and this was three four or five days before it came out in the news and I think that was a common thing we're in NFL circles because people

talk to people and I think there was initial word that it was maybe really bad but at least according to our guy in Rappaport it's something that will not prevent him from starting the regular season, even if he misses the start of training camp. But it was a fireworks accident where he took an eye injury, which is just, oof. That's so scary to me. I don't do fireworks. I don't F with them. I don't like them. I think they're stupid. I mean, this is my, this is my hot take. Like, they scare the crap out of my dog. They seriously injure people. It's, they're often not worth it, in my opinion, to go and sit in traffic and then go sit in, you know, amongst everybody else's conversation and cigarette smoke and go watch them.

Like, no, not for me, not I. Hot take. Yeah, I don't want to be anywhere near them. Now, if you're getting me without like a tough parking situation and I can just, you know, go down. Like light sparkler action. I'm like, watch that with my. No, I'm saying, can I just watch it from afar on the beach and it was easy enough to do? Like, I'm fine with it.

But I'm with you. And it was on almost the 10 year to the day anniversary, I believe, of Jason Pierre Paul's career changing when he had that fire. work's accident that was only in my head recently because where he lost part of his finger and really sidetracked him for a minute before he rebounded because he's trying to make a comeback. I don't know. I happen to see that new. He's trying to make a comeback after being out of the league for a year. So good luck to him, but good luck to Najee Harris. Hopefully everything is okay there. And then just a couple little nugs that Joanne Jennings of the 49ers wants a contract were already seeing these pup reports like Mike Williams, for instance, of the Chargers, because

their starting camp today. Wednesday. He is now on the Pup list, which you can be taken off from any time. It just means he's not healthy enough to start camp. And the Chargers also getting some notice that, you know, their second round pick is not in camp yet missed the entire week of their rookie kind of onboarding training camp because almost no rookies in the second round are signed. This is wild. Like 30 second round picks have not been signed largely because the Texans gave a fully guaranteed contract to their pick, the number 34 overall pick, and now everyone behind them is kind of being pressured

to maybe do that or come close to match that. And it reminded me a little bit of the Derek Stangley contract because that contract was so high by the Texans that it actually kind of forced the Jets to step up to the plate. So shout out to the Texans actually for treating their players. I know. This is the opposite of the Shemar Stewart situation

where you're worried about setting a bad precedent for all the players that come after you, in that building in terms of how the team handles the guarantees. Well, this is the opposite. The Texans are like, yeah, sure, have all the guarantees. Now everyone else is like, hey, wait a minute. I kind of want that, you know? Seems like it would probably be a good thing.

It's not even, how much money is it even the second round pick? I know. I'm saying it's a positive. It's a good thing. I agree with you. Yeah. I totally agree with you. Okay, it's $11.7 million for four years for the 34th player of the draft.

Like, if for whatever reason he doesn't make it to, like, the fourth year, like, you're paying like a situational pass rusher that much for one year. And this is the 34th pick in the drive. You can take that tiny little risk that your pick wasn't so great. You should believe in this guy. I mean, that's nothing. I think these second round pick should be guaranteed. Rookie contracts are low enough, actually. They should all be guaranteed.

How about that? There you go. Not a hot take. In fact, an incredibly fair take. Yeah. A fair take. This was fun. It is great connecting with you again, Jordan.

I know. It's nice to know you're alive. We will do it in person again. I'll bring out Ernest Gregg a little bit. We'll have Colleen in the studio. Hopefully, we've got to tell her that next week. We've got to find her first. We have a big week of shows. We're going to our first training camp,

Cowboys training camp later in the week. So that'll be really fun too. And before that, we're going to hear from you and J.J. Jans, from the Panthers. on all the training can't miss. So I can't wait for that. Can't wait to get on a plane. Thank you, Jordan.

Thank you, Eric, for keeping the fire burning back home and getting those top 25 episodes out. There's something sick in me because when I see like these, Mike Williams was placed on the PUP list transaction types, like I know football is back. And I feel better about myself. Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here.

And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant.

And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush. your opponents listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Toyota the official automotive partner of the NFL visit toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more this is an iHeart podcast