NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Jets-Patriots Week 11 TNF Recap and 2024 QB Re-Draft

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

It was a good day to be a Drake Maye lover. After cruising to a win over the New York Jets on Week 11's Thursday Night Football, the New England Patriots became the favorite for the No. 1 seed in the AFC with a league-leading ninth win. Drake Maye looked incredible, TreVeyon Henderson had three touchdowns, and the Jets looked like the Jets. Gregg Rosenthal and Nick Shook recap the game, then re-draft the 2024 QB draft class, comprised in part by Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels, Drake Maye, Michael Penix, Bo Nix and J.J. McCarthy.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up? It's Cam Jordan. I'm back with season three of your favorite podcast, the Off the Edge with Cam Jordan podcast. Tap in every Wednesday to hear conversations with my friends and stars for the NFL,

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on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Drake is trying to move from a place. Snap to May, looks to his left, he pumps, he throws, Fulton in the edge of a touchdown, Patriots. And who caught it? Trinion Anderson, a hat trick for the rookie.

I don't play sports. I mean, I don't play fantasy football. But who's got that kid on it, man? Three touchdowns tonight. You're breaking records. He's going to get another one, too. Tony's going to get the heads out four times. Oh, but he didn't score four.

Scott Zolak, taking an L on the same night that his beloved Patriots got a 9th W. The first team in the NFL, Nick Shook, to clinch a winning record for the 2025 season is the New England Patriots. 27 to 14. Yes, that was also Bob Sochi on WBZ, 2714. I think it's about accurate in terms of how this game felt. The Jets were competitive, but ultimately you never felt that the Patriots were going to lose. All it took, Nick, was Ramandre Stevenson and Thorell Jennings getting hurt for Trayvion Henderson to become that dude, and he delivers with three scores on a night where everyone

got to enjoy the young Patriots players. It's like I tweeted during the game. I'm old enough to remember when Trayvion Henderson was barely even a part of the game plan. Right. Now he's the star, the central figure, at least when it comes to scoring touchdowns for them tonight. A classic Patriots performance, classic in the new age of Patriots that Drake May at the, you know, at the controls and powering this offense. And then Henderson finishing the drives off with touchdowns, a different game than what we saw against Tampa Bay last week, which is perfectly fine and very encouraging for the Patriots who on a short week come home and largely handle their division rivals in a game. in which they just needed to take care of business.

And once again, their quarterback puts together a fantastic performance. 25 and 34, it might not look that great to you, but I promise you, there are so many highlight throws from this game that are worth watching an NFL plus. You got to go back and check it out. Drake May had another great night. You know what's crazy is I think that drops his completion percentage on the season, which is nuts.

And he doesn't top 300 yards, which he actually hasn't done yet as a pro. So Mack Jones, still the last Patriot to top 300 yards. And yet, as flashy as the Henderson touchdowns were, and they were interesting for different reasons, the offensive line did a good job on both of them, and we'll listen to those later. Drake May's season is one of the biggest stories in the NFL, not just that he's that dude.

And we're actually going to do a little redraft after we talk about this game, picking who we would take out of the 2024 QB draft class, just like our top six or seven, if we want to include Spencer Rattler in that mix. And obviously, May is going to be at or near the top of that, depending on how you feel shook. But, like, he's at the level where he's elevating the people around him.

It's not like the past protection has been great. Tonight, I would say, considering the opponent, it was okay. It was up and down, but it was okay. But it's him handling the pressure. And then elevating guys like Pop Douglas and Matt Collins and Stefan Diggs, even at the later points of his career, and making them look better. What to you, it was kind of the most impressive part of this performance by me?

Undoubtedly, it was his ability to sit amid pressure in a pocket that was ever changing, step up effortlessly, keep his eyes down the field, and hit precise throws with such precision that I'm, you know, on my couch, watch you just going, wow, multiple times just audibly saying, wow, there was a throw he had over the middle to Stefan Diggs that Diggs dropped that as he took the throw. I went, oh, no, you did it. Like, just there's no way you're making this attempt. He does it. He steps up in the pocket and hits another receiver with incredible precision. He does it to set up a touchdown. Like, it's just to move the chains. There's one play where he's rolling to the sideline. It looks like he's going to give up on any

channels his inner Josh Allen and just tosses a little soft one to digs. That moves the chains as well. Like, it's just no matter the situation, he is so calm and poised for a guy who is only in a second year. And you combine that with the, what I will say is elite accuracy. And we've seen it, especially over the last couple of weeks, and you've got a quarterback who can pretty much handle anything, do everything, and propel your offense forward. And there will be more tests. And they continue to pass these tests of taking care of business against inferior competition, which at this point, it's fair to say not only the Jets are, but like next week's matchup against the Bengals. Like, that's a game that the Patriots should win. And so far,

they keep winning those games and they keep winning them by a couple of scores. But you're so right, that incompletion, by the way, to digs over the middle, which at that point, was the best throw of the night is a great reason to watch Prime Vision because you realize how just completely balzy that throw was. At that point, he was 11 for 11. That was actually his first incompletion on the night. The push pass to me was part of the drive that really showed what Drake May is all about. And that was the second drive of the third quarter. It's only a 14 to 7 game at that point. It starts with the drive with a throw where he layers one in to Hunter Henry. Like he has to go over the underneath defender. Oh, no, to Matt Collins. The

Underneath receiver was Hunter Henry. Hollins actually makes a nice catch for him to start that drive. Then it's the deep over to Stefan Diggs, and that was the play where Will McDonald wins cleanly off the snap on the right side and May just calmly steps up in the pocket, and there's also some pressure on the left side too. And I'm with you, just the pocket presence is awesome. And then the next play after that is the Diggs push pass where he is just in create mode. Because the comparisons and the numbers, obviously he's playing for the Patriots,

So all these numbers that he's setting, the first guy to do this since Tom Brady. And there's nothing similar about them except for Tom Brady's superpower was pocket presence. I always thought that's the thing he was the greatest at that, you know, compared to any other quarterback that I've ever seen. And May does it in a different way. But a lot of times his pocket presence and his ability to get away from defenders

is staying inside the pocket. It's not rolling out and throwing. He can do that sometimes. But a lot of times it's staying in the pocket. And that's what he did tonight. and yeah, a couple of his best passes even weren't caught, like that one to Diggs, and then he had a 50-yarder down the field to Matt Collins

that he hit him in stride, and then it was a nice play by Brandon Stevens to knock it out. So I'm with you. It just doesn't seem too big for him. And man, if he, this is going to help Patrick's points in the MVP conversation, you know, we'll have to talk about it Sunday, but he's in the mix.

He's in the mix. Yeah, I mean, even the touchdown pass to Henderson was a thing of beauty. Like, it's a play in which he breaks the pocket. It looks like he may run. The defense is fully prepared for him to take off. Because, by the way, he's one of the best running quarterbacks in the NFL, especially when it comes to extending the play and finding guys downfield.

And then he just calmly off one foot, tosses it over a defender. Oh, there's Henderson in the back of the end zone. Again, great accuracy. Makes it look easy, effortless. Like, he's doing everything so well right now. And I just can't help but enjoy watching him play football every single week. And to go back on that Brady point real quick, he had one other superpower, which is his pre-snap diagnosis of coverages

and helping determine where he was going to go, which that came with years of experience. May, I mean, I feel like I don't even need, like that throw that you mentioned the one over Henry to Mac Hollins. I thought when I watched that live, oh, God, he just forced that ball. I didn't realize that he layered that one in that well. Like, we're just talking about a quarterback

who's exceeding all expectations. I honestly don't think Patriots fans have fully come to terms with just how preposterously. No, they're enjoying it in real time because that little pop pass, You heard the crowd like, ooh, like, oh my God. Like, they are, but for whatever reason, I think people just didn't see last year how good he already was before getting McDaniels and everything. And the types of things that he's doing as a second year quarterback, like when you bottom out as a team, the hope is that you get a high draft pick and you get one of those dudes.

And it just, I don't, like, they're taking it for granted that it's actually happened this way. And not just like a dude that's like pretty good. Like Trevor Lawrence is maybe not even in that category, but one that, you know, has a chance to be one of the five to eight capital D dudes for a while. Now, you mentioned the pre-snap stuff, and I think you see it with how defenses are approaching him, and they're good at adjusting, and that's where McDaniels deserves credit, because they played way more zone than they normally played tonight, and it took them a little while to adjust because I think they wanted to prevent what he normally does as a zone guy, I mean, as a scrambler. And in theory, like, their running games should be helped more by May, but it's really been inconsistent. Even with Trayvion Henderson, it's under 3.5 yards per carry, but they have been better in the red zone lately.

Let's actually listen to the first touchdown of the night by Trayvion Henderson. They will squad under center. He takes the snap. He pitches it near side for headers and he starts inside a defender, spins inside the four, driving the pile with an assist. Touchdown! Patriots! He got a push from a pair of teeth. He's in for six.

You got to be happy about this rookie. Yeah, Henderson is showing that he can run with a little power, and they're showing that they can mix it up with a crisis Tonga. Chris Tonga in at fullback on some of these and an extra offensive lineman, Ben Brown, so they're going heavy offensive line, and that's at least help him in the red zone lately. Yeah, and I love this trend in the NFL where we're just throwing six linemen. We're throwing linemen in his fullbacks inside the 10-yard line sometimes inside the five,

and just playing man ball. Let's just run you over and block better than you can. But that play in particular really demonstrates why Trayvion Henderson was a second round pick, why he was considered one of the best running backs in this class in 2025. We knew he had the home run ability from his time at Ohio State, but I think a lot of people didn't understand that he could run with the power that you just described and that we just saw on that play. Now, of course, his teammates all rally behind him to push him over those last few yards

to get in the end zone, but he's got to keep those legs churning. What made him special on that play was catching the toss and instantly seeing where he needed to go, putting a foot in the ground, and then bursting forward to evade the defender who had properly read the play and could have cut it down on the backfield, and then breaking a tackle. Those are all the things you want to see from a running back, who you know has top end speed, who can hit the big play, but you need him be able to thrive in the situations in which the lane is not perfect for him, and he's got to make something out of it. He certainly did that tonight.

Yeah, he, I don't know if vision is his strength overall. It was great on that play. They still aren't that effective on a down-to-down basis. Their success rate tonight was 35%. Last week against the Bucks, they were actually dead last in rushing success rate for week 10, despite those two long runs by Henderson. So on a snap-to-snap basis, they're struggling a little bit. They're better when they do the pin pull stuff. Nate Tice pointed this out on Blue Sky that, you know, when they get a guy pulling in motion, they have big time plays, but pretty much any of their other zone or like duo runs.

Like it's not really working for them. Michael N1U on one new had a great block on that second touchdown though so good job by them there I do notice like how when they need a play so often in the passing game it's Stefan Diggs and he goes over 100 yards tonight and it's not an every week

thing where he's going to have this type of night he goes nine for 105 but man when when they need a third down like it's Stefan Diggs he had a couple crucial ones tonight and even on the first touchdown drive I'm thinking Drake May threw a fastball in on like third and medium,

and Diggs made a great catch that only went for three or four yards, but it's set up a fourth and two so that they could actually go for it. And it's been an underrated part of May's accuracy is that between Hollins and Henry and Kishon Booty, when he's been out there, they really missed him tonight

because Kyle Williams is always part of these miscommunications. Those guys have made a lot of tough catches for Drake May. So they deserve credit to Stefan Diggs more than anyone. I remember we spent a lot of time this summer debating how this receiving court was going to shake out, which guys might make the team. And through most of it, Diggs, you know, arrived ahead of schedule in his recovery from his injury. But I felt like we were pretty cautious on what we might expect from him. I think he's exceeded every expectation possible for him.

And that's even for a guy like Stefan Diggs. At this stage in his career, he has given the Patriots more return on an investment than I think they ever could have imagined. And I think that that's also what is lost in the whole Drake May, you know, the, the, build of the narrative and the excitement around him is the fact that he's also making a lot of magic with a guy who's, you know, established a career for making magic with other quarterbacks. Diggs has been a huge part of this offense this year. And they have him signed for the next two years at good prices for them. Now, he's a year to year type of guy at this point. And it wouldn't surprise me if like this turns into the honeymoon year and his age 33 season

next year, which he's almost certainly going to be back for it now because he's playing so well. It doesn't go as well. That's how these things go. But they're really happy, I think, that they have him under contract, and he's been really important to them. On the jet side, look,

the passing game is limited, but it was just a case where tonight, I think they took turns making different errors. Adi Mitchell drops a dime down the field. On on one third down early, on another third down,

Justin Fields misses A.D. Mitchell pretty wide open on the play. They have a really great first drive. The Patriots continue to give up first drive touchdowns. It's six times a season. They've given up first drive touchdowns. But the running game and Justin Fields running the ball aggressively kind of went away for most of the night.

The Patriots lost Milton Williams pretty early in this game to an ankle injury. He played under 10 snaps, so that's a concern for them. But ultimately, no Garrett Wilson on the field. you kind of figured the Jets would be limited offensively and Fields isn't showing that like he has the ability to kind of overcome what's around him, despite pretty good pass pro. Yeah, good pass pro. And honestly, he had a few good throws.

And I'm not taking this stance as the Justin Fields defender because you can see the limitations. But it, and better pass pro than we've seen for most of the year, which is a nice encouraging, you know, thing to see from the Jets. But like, he had a few throws that were just flat out dropped. And most of them were A.D. Mitchell. and I'm a believer in AD Mitchell if he can figure out how to catch the football

because he runs great routes. Seems important for a receiver. Finish the job. You run great routes. You get open. He's putting the ball right on you. You got to catch it. You can tell he was kind of in his own head,

which has been the story of his second season in the NFL, really. But, I mean, at one point in the fourth quarter, Mitchell comes off the field after dropping another pass. And I look at the guys out there, and it's like John Mechie and Tyler Johnson. And I'm just thinking, like, half of this receiving corps wasn't even on this team to start the season. Like, this is such a team in transition.

It's a tough situation for Fields, but it is not the sole explanation for why this offense struggles. I was surprised to see him do better as a passer tonight, even if some of those passes weren't completed because he's been so bad for them for most of this season. And yet the result ends up being the same because they can't get out of their own way very often. He runs for 67 yards with a touchdown.

Need to see more of that, I think, from him. Yeah, but then the Patriots shut it down in the second half. Like, it wasn't really a viable option. And especially when you go down by two scores, you know they can't stretch the field. You knew this game was basically over, which is the story of a team that's two and eight. Yeah, they had a two-game winning streak coming in. And even though he threw the ball better, he ends up with 116 yards and 26 attempts. Although, obviously, if A.D. Mitchell had caught a couple of those passes.

That'll be, I'm already seeing the, this should be the last we see of Justin Fields stuff from, for instance, the athletic. I saw put that out there in like, maybe. First of all, Tyrod Taylor is very unlikely to stay healthy for the rest of the of the season, which it would be, what, still like seven more games? Like, that's probably not going to happen anyways. I think they have some pieces. Their tackles are good. Olu Fashtonu and on the other side, Membu have played well.

And I think that's something to build around along with Brees Hall, but just too many mistakes, including, like, you know, penalties in big spot, you know, a couple like unnecessary roughness penalties that they didn't need. They had a holding penalty, which gave the Patriots a field goal attempt at the end of the first half. It was just a lot of mental errors. And I just don't get this thing with Aaron Glenn. He won't say who his quarterback is until, like, game time. It was literally Thursday afternoon, and Albert Breer was like, Justin Fields is probably going to be the starting quarterback.

You don't really see that too often in 2025, but it's like, why such a mystery? And then the way Glenn is sometimes acting when reporters ask him, questions. Here's Aaron Glenn actually earlier this week when asked about Garrett Wilson, who by the way was placed on injured reserve on Thursday. I'm going to pass on talking

about injuries since Rich, he's not here, has all the answers, so you guys can get all the injuries from Rich. It's like, he's talking about Rich Samini, by the way, who reported that Garrett Wilson would be out three to four weeks and then a couple

days later they put him on injured reserve, which literally announces that he's out for four weeks. And he gets, I don't know. It's just unnecessary. It's a first year coach kind of trying to figure it out. It reminds me a little bit of Gerard Mayo and the way that he dealt with the media. He's better.

Patriots last season. He's better at it than Mayo was kind of a disaster in that department. But it's just like, it's unnecessary. I understand you're frustrated and you're upset that information gets out. But seal the cracks in the building. Why are you so frustrated? He's doing his job. It's the agent.

It's also like, don't worry about other things. It's really not that important. Shout out to Christian Barmore, by the way, who gets a sack tonight. It is his first since missing almost all the last season with blood clots, but he had a couple pressures. He has been good for the Patriots defense, which I still have my questions about.

I don't think they're going to be good enough to get through an AFC gauntlet. People in Foxborough are dreaming about the Super Bowl because if you look at their schedule, they are now nine and two. They are going to be heavy favorites in at least like four of their remaining games. And then they also have the bills and the Ravens on the schedule. Like it is pretty easy to see them getting to 13 wins, which will give them a good chance at winning the division and possibly even being the one seat.

And then, of course, you dream about the Super Bowl. I have my questions about whether the defense could get it done in this AFC. But if ever there was a year to do it, I guess this might be the year. Depends where the other guys, are you buying before we move on to the quarterbacks? Patriots, like, where do you put them in the AFC hierarchy of teams most likely to make the Super Bowl? I'll say it that way. So you have the bills, of course, you have the Chiefs,

you have the Chargers, you have the Ravens. If you want to throw in the Steelers out of respect and the Broncos, certainly, where do you put the Patriots in that group? I mean, let's not forget the Colts, too. Colts, oh my God. I've been banging the Colts drum. Yes. Okay, so I want to give some credit to, like,

like this defense has put together a season that is much better than we thought it would be like the play of Caleb-on-Shayson, for example. You know, he's leading them in sacks. He's been great for most of this year. But I also, and you have Christian Gonzalez back there and you got Marcus Jones and everything else, but this is also a defense that was largely patched together

by a lot of off-season additions, Milton Williams being one of them, Robert Spillane being another one. And I saw a weakness tonight that makes me concerned about how they could perform against a team like Baltimore. I don't think they have a linebacker who could effectively spy a running quarterback

and that could be their biggest weakness. Jack Gibbons isn't getting it done for you? Jack Gibbons actually played pretty well. He's actually played pretty well for them since he got inserted in a couple weeks ago. But yeah, I hear you. Yes, but Gibbons, Spillane, none of those guys could spy Lamar.

And so I think that could be their weakness. But I do believe. Or Mahomes or maybe even Daniel Jones. And that's going to take a lot of discipline and defensive integrity. And I don't know if they've gotten enough time together to really do that in the biggest spots. But I do think that they'll give every team they play a game because of what we've seen from this offense.

It's a little bit inflated. Like there was, what, three or four years ago where the Vikings, I was like, that's one of the most overrated 12, 13 win teams, wherever they were that year that I've ever seen, the most fraudulent. And they proved that when they lost the Giants in the playoffs. I wouldn't say the same thing about these Patriots. I just don't think their ceiling is as high as the Super Bowl. So I would agree with you.

Yeah. It's going to depend on the matchups. But like I said, it's crazy. Nine and two. It does make me feel like, okay, we're here. We're at a point in the season where a team can be nine and two. And, yeah, they only have six games left. And four of them are against the Bengals, Giants, Jets, and Dolphins.

Doesn't mean they're going to win all four, but they'll be favored in all of them. I give them a chance to win any game, but one and done in the playoffs also wouldn't be a surprise depending on the matchup. But I give them a chance because of their quarterback. Let's take a break. And we will redraft the 2024 quarterback class after the break. Hey, y'all, it's me, your man, M.G. Marcus Grant.

And I'm Michael F. Lurio. And I'm Laquan Jones. If you're looking to win your fantasy football league, you need to tune in to the NFL fantasy football podcast. It's right there in the name. Every week, Florio, LQ, and I bring you the latest news from around the league. We break down every matchup, give you our analysis and advice so you know who to start, sit, drop, and trade to bring that championship trophy home. I just want to remind everyone how good Rishie Rice was last season. is three healthy games. He was the wide receiver two in fantasy. I think Rishi Rice just goes off this week. The Chiefs come on a flip

past to Rice. This side. Touchdown! Remandre Stevens is my sleeper this week. This is a match-out where I think I can slide in Stevenson into my flex position and he could deliver double-digit points this week. Drake takes the snap. Hands it off. Remodry running it right and running into the end zone.

Touchdown! It's never too late to turn your fantasy season around. Subscribe to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

If you love breaking down football from every angle, you're in the right place. Every week on Move the Six, Bucky Brooks and I dive deep into the game from the X's and O's to the front office moves shaping the league. We kick things off with Brian Baudinger, breaking down what really went down on Sunday. It is as good a timing rhythm offense as there is in the league right now. Vinrette Lewis joins us for our rookie draft and coordinator of the week. where we highlight the rising stars and the masterminds calling the shots. DJ talked me into Arronday Gadsden Jr. He had a monster game.

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Hi, I'm Cam Jordan. Do you want to go off the edge with Cam Jordan? Because I'm going off the edge with Cam Jordan. That's right, season three of the Off the Edge with Cam Jordan podcast. I'm back. It's on. Let's go. Oh!

Who is this man? Okay, I've calmed down now. But I'm super hyped about this upcoming season. Not just for what the Saints are going to do, but for what we got cooking on the pod. Each week, I'll talk. with your favorite stars from the NFL, the sports world in general and entertainment about everything and anything

from teams and players making waves to pop culture, and you know my music takes, stay hot. Now, Tupac, I just don't... You know respect for Tupac? You took a whole class on Tupac. You got respect for Tupac. And you're like DMX and you're on like Tupac.

And I'll tell you why. Get all this and more on the new season, the season of more. On the Off the Edge with Cam Jordan podcast. Catch new episodes every Wednesday. on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Back on NFL Daily, it's time. It's the 2024 quarterback class redraft.

Okay, college tape matters, NFL tape matters more. Based on the now year and a half sample size, we have one of the best quarterback classes we have seen of the last 20 years. We are going to redraft. this much debated class. And we'll each give our picks. But I want to hear yours first. Who goes first out of your quarterback? There's really only a couple options.

I would assume it's only Drake May or Jaden Daniels. But who do you go? Yeah. And you can accuse me of recency bias. I don't care. It's Drake May. Like home run, slam dunk, Drake May. Easy choice because of what we just described. Yeah, we talked about him a lot on this show already.

I think it's clear just because of the style of play. And I got some pushback already on social of just like, look, Jaden led his team to multiple playoff wins where he was the biggest reason by far they won those games as a rookie. And I think that's all fair. And I think if you want to say it's a little unfair, and we'll just talk about these two guys now together because I have May number one and Jaden, too. You can tell me if you have Jaden two in a second, but we'll talk about Jaden. I think the durability stuff is somewhat fair to talk about with Jaden because of his frame.

And then I just think with how unique that offense was, you have to worry just a little bit more than May long term about how he keeps improving and stacking how he is as a quarterback. That said, I think he is so sharp and has so many assets beyond his. his incredible athleticism, that's Jaden Daniels, and his incredible accuracy, that, frankly, I'm not that worried about his ability to evolve as a player and an excellent quarterback. And he would still be in my, like, top 10 quarterbacks I want long term. And I'm still, like, very high on where Jaden Daniels' career goes. It's mostly just the durability and the size, which I think is a skill that makes me take May over Jaden Daniels. yeah when we look at his career in hindsight whenever it ends this is a season we will completely

throw out the window like a professor throws out your lowest test score you know at the end of the semester like it's it's it's completely incomplete this evaluation this season because he's been hurt three separate times he's had a number of guys around him get hurt the circumstances surrounding him have been terrible and quarterbacks in the league it comes down to two things usually for them talent slash you know ability and experience that's all like in one bucket and the other bucket is situation. And the situation for him last year, he elevated this team, but he also had enough around him to capitalize and maximize what they were going to do that season. And he did the rest of the work, which is why he had such a great season. He had an offensive rookie of the

year's season. We all held him in high regard. This year, all of that fell apart. That does not diminish how I see him. But I do think the durability questions are valid because of his size, like you said, because of what we saw this season and his style of play, somebody who extends the play somebody they like to let run read option with that whole dynamic element of his game it matters long term now we said the same things about lamar early in his career he has missed some games but it hasn't been as much of an issue as we thought it would be and i think the same will be true for jaden overall but the durability is the reason that i would put him right behind drake may at this point after only you know almost two seasons you know i think labar came into the league with better

pure pocket passing skills at least that were translatable from a pro offense that he played in college, which is why I always laugh when Kirk Kirby just keeps talking about how much he's improved and he wasn't a pocket bastard. He was always that guy. Now, he has, of course, improved Lamar, that is. I just think Jaden, like I want to see him in different types of offenses, but it's a small thing. By the way, if May winds up getting, let's say, top five MVP votes, that type of thing, top three MVP votes. I did a little research while that second half was going on. Second year quarterbacks to win MVP, Patrick Mahomes. And of course, he didn't even start his rookie year. Lamar Jackson, Dan Marino, and then Kurt Warner, who was an interesting case because

he played arena ball and he was 28 years old, but he was a second year quarterback. That's about it. Peyton Manning came in second in the MVP as a second year player. So it's rare, like all-time greatest stuff to get that high. In the end, I personally don't think May is going to wind up with the MVP, but even to get in the mix is rare stuff. And, you know, for what it's worth. Now that we have more voters, you can go one through, what, five on the MVP? Jane Daniels came in seventh last year. So, like, he was in the mix last year.

All right. Is Jaden your number two pick? By the way, I should have confirmed that. Yeah, he is. And I just want to expand on that real quick, because I was thinking about top five MVP guys right now. And you hate MVP discussions at this point in the season. I'm just going to throw it out there.

Matthew Stafford, Baker-Mayfield, Drake May, Jonathan Taylor, option number five. Like, May is very much in that conversation. Oh, man. May is ahead of all those guys. No, that wasn't a specific order. I was just throwing those guys out there, yeah. I still, just the way that Herbert and Mahomes have played,

I'd probably have Stafford, May, Herbert, and Mahomes would probably be my top four. But Taylor, Taylor is right there too. Okay, is number three, Caleb Williams for you. Yes, it is. And I think this is the end of a clear line of demarcation in this group. Because, look, Caleb is not. super consistent over four quarters. And I'm going to say the same thing about Vaux Nix later in this group. But what he has done over the last month and a half and his partnership with Ben Johnson

makes me think that he can actually live up to expectation. His fourth quarter play in some of these games is just absolutely scintillating. Like just injected in my veins, Taylor Williams clutch gene. I wish I could just spread it to everybody on the planet that they could perform under pressure like he does, whether it's running, whether it's throwing. The moment is never too big for him and he has those natural abilities that again he doesn't necessarily show off over an entire game but god when he scrambles and just lets that arm rip that is special he has an arm that is very rare and once they harness that over the course of the full four quarters he's got to be one of the best quarterbacks in the league as long as he stays in this track and age matters

a little bit to me here and you know Caleb williams is 23 years old he uh is more than a year younger than Jane Daniels. For instance, Drake May is almost another year younger even than Caleb Williams, which is crazy.

Caleb's about to turn 24. You know, May just turned 23. So that, I think, bolsters May's case in general. I always thought,

at least coming into this season, that Caleb Williams' floor is higher than people realize that he showed more than enough as a rookie that I was like, oh, like his floor

is cutlerish, which... It's kind of where he is now. Right. Like, people, people will mock that, but Jay Culler, like, kept getting $100 million contracts because he was, like, the 12th best player in a league, and sometimes he looked like, quarterback in league, and sometimes he looked like the eighth, but he wasn't the consistent guy that you want. That's his floor. I think it's going to end up being higher than that, and I think we've seen a steady improvement that, like, the way he plays is so special that it really can

create plays that even Drake May and Jane Daniels can't make, and that he's improved. on all the other stuff like players do because like they're young and the experience is going to help so to me situation to me his ceiling still might be like as high as jaden and drake maize i i don't think it's that crazy to say i just think you have to base a pick like this off of what we've seen so far and their ceilings are still sky high and and we've just seen i think some of the next level processing and everything like that more than Caleb Williams to this point. But I think he, I think Bears fans feel great about him now, maybe significantly better than they did at the starting of the season. Maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, you know, you know how I know

they're feeling better about it? Because they're getting in my DMs more when I don't rank him high enough. Okay. Speaking of which, I am very curious and this is where it gets even more interesting. Who is number four for you? This is going to be tough, but I would probably put Bo Nix there. Okay. I did two and I had to like really look at myself in the mirror and say, is that just because I'm afraid of the Broncos fans? And I haven't answered that question in my soul.

Because if it was my team, would I really take Bo Nix over PennX and JJ and Rattler? I don't know. But at this point for what he's done, I think I would. I am a firm believer that eventually they are going to figure this out, that his lack of consistent. his absolute disappearing acts until the fourth quarter of some of these games is just a product of them not quite getting their bearings offensively, which doesn't make sense because Sean, this is not Sean Payton's first year there.

It's not his first year with Bo Nix, but there's been a difference in offensive style. It's almost like they've tried to force themselves square peg into a round hole and they're now starting to pull back on that and realize maybe that's not what we should do. Like last year, they would roll bow out so much, get him out on the perimeter, and that's where he was really good. You don't see that intentionally nearly as much this year. I think there's been more of a focus on the ground. game, which I think at times has limited their offense.

It's just like they have, they don't know what they want to be, and the lack of identity has held them back until they absolutely need to turn it on. And I think that in the moments in which he turns on, you can see how special he can be, can we see it over at least a half or maybe three quarters. I'm not even asking for all four quarters. That, that combined with what I saw from him last year, save for the, you know, wild mistakes that he tended to make in the back half of last year, makes me believe that he can be there.

His ceiling is not as high as the first three guys we talked about. but I feel better about him, no, because of the product that I've seen so far than Pennix or J.G. McCarthy, for example. I think McCarthy probably has the highest ceiling of the four remaining quarterbacks. I am including Rattler here. But Bo Nix is turning 26 in February and he's just played a lot of football and he will continue to improve. Of course he will. But the fact that he's played a lot of football, you do wonder like how dramatic that improvement is going to. going to be. Ultimately, I did put him forth because I think he's proven he's an NFL QB. And, and like, that's a real thing. Like, he's an NFL starting quarterback. He's in a perfect system for him right now. And there's every reason to believe that he will be able to improve

as he goes. And ultimately, I think with the athleticism, and frankly, he's made more impressive downfield throws consistently than Michael Pennix. McCarthy is just a total wild card and so we'll get to him. I agree with you with Bo at four. In the end, that's where I went. And it wasn't just because I'm afraid of Broncos fans, but maybe it's one.

No, you can come to Cleveland. I'm a man. I'm 33, to quote Mike Gundy. Okay, who's five? This is hard. This is hard because are we talking about potential or are we talking about product? We're talking about a redraft.

So you're starting, so it's basically potential because you're starting your Nick Shook League, your team and you have them for the next four years or whatever you know it's a redraft you're drafting him who do i got for good and that's why i say it's like interesting bo versus j j for instance because j j j is more of the mystery box right now but he is maybe a little toolsy a little toolsier pennix has the bigger arm you you you like i like how he carries himself i like a lot of the things about him but i haven't loved what's on the field as much so who is your your fifth guy God, the mystery box could be anything.

He'd even be a boat. God, I think I'm going to go with McCarthy. This goes against everything that I felt about this class. I felt McCarthy was overrated coming out of Michigan. Well, primarily because the whole thing about him was, oh, he's a winner. He's rarely ever lost. He does make a lot of plays. He did it at Michigan.

He's done it at times in his very brief NFL career so far where he has the athleticism to take off run and pick up the key downs. And I think that will benefit him over the course of his career. It's just that, like, I have the most recent performance in my brain right now, and it burned my eyes watching that game against the Ravens, just the missed throws, the unnecessary risk. This is your franchise for the next five years, Chuck? Yeah, do I, do I? And yet you just took it.

You just took him. Yeah. I was saying, don't overrate what you just saw. Here we go. Okay. I think that's probably the right move. I wrote down panics ahead of them because I think I'm sticking to my priors. I think his floor is okay.

Michael Pennix. You do worry. You know, you think about his early sample size last year. And that looked really good right off the bat. Michael Pennix. And I think he, quarterbacks are going to have their ups and downs. And I think he's in a little bit of a lull. His floor is higher.

JJ right now, I just don't know from snap to snap what's going to happen. And I do worry a little bit because he has been in that building. And everyone's like, well, it's his rookie year. It's like, okay. I mean, you did get the benefit of being with Kevin O'Connell and being an NFL building for a year and a half. It's not exactly his rookie year. I mean, I know Patrick Mahomes was on the field and everything,

but he didn't play his rookie year. Like, I just think, let's say he was Drake May, for instance, or he was Jaden Daniels. Like, you would know it after that, you know, being in the building and stuff. Joe Burrow, you knew it in week two of his rookie season. That's all I'm saying. And so do you take what I think is with Pennix a pretty decent floor,

is he going to be like at the Dalton scale line, you know, right in the middle? Like that could be Michael Pennix's outcome. Obviously, you hope for better because he does have limitations. I don't love a quarterback that's not consistently accurate. And that's kind of what Pennix is right now, a guy who can run pretty fast in a straight line. That's not his MO at all. all, but the once or twice he does it, you're like, oh, you can do that.

You just want to see him do it more, but it's just not natural for his game. It never was. Whereas J.J. McCarthy, I think,'s a better athlete and plays with a little more aggressive. I just changed my pick. We haven't thrown the card up. I am taking McCarthy over Pennix, ultimately. I think I would. No, I think the clock might have ran out on you there.

You did a lot of hem in and haunt and haunt. That's what I do. If the clock ran out on me, like, this podcast would get canceled, you know? Too much honking. I'm taking JJ now. myself into it because you know what i don't want to aim for the middle and i do i'd rather flame out uh with kyle bowler uh just hoping oh yeah i love that com that that it's hoping that it's actually lamar jackson instead of just like aiming for i don't know someone someone else

yeah at least ripped the bandit off yeah instead of aiming for someone in the middle but i hope for more for pennix uh i guess that means rattler is is seven for you yeah but you know what it's not a big gap to me. I would love to see the Saints trade Spencer Rattler to the Jets or the Browns and see how it works because I know he had a really hard crash and burn those last couple of games, but the tape before was really encouraging and I was on board, baby. He is, I mean, he was an older prospect too, but he's a little younger than Pennix and Knicks. And I don't think his tape was much worse than or much different than Pennix and Nick. Maybe I'm buying, you know, the pre-draft kind of hype that I'm just grading off the draft even now.

Because I don't think his tape was much worse. The problem was he wasn't quite aggressive enough for a guy that I think would need to play that way. And when I'm saying that size is a skill, like McCarthy and PennX are much more of the build and, like, the prototype of what you want out of a quarterback compared to Rattler. So I'm self-hating here. I'm picking on the short guys, you know. Not the Rattler short, but for a quarterback. I mean, there are shorter guys that are still in the league and one's on IR right now that is a topic of conversation

that we've talked about. And he was the number one overall pick. That's what I'm saying, Patriots fans. Like, you can get all the way up to the number one pick and then you can have Kyler Murray and you can be like not totally sure about him six, seven years later. Same thing with like Justin, I mean, with Trevor Lawrence or certainly with the Darnolds and even the bakers in their first spots, you know.

At times. It's no guarantee. I think we know now. All right, we did it, Nick Shook. We had a great show. Appreciate everyone checking out the TNF preview. We will be back in the feed with my week 11 picks with myself and Cynthia Freeland. By the way, we're back in the studio here on a Thursday night.

I know that makes Chris Bobona feel like a little more alive. He doesn't like it when I go home when I'm in the home studio. Yeah, check out my picks. Six-week winning streak right now with the picks against the spread. We'll see you there. Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game

from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael

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