NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Kyler Murray Gets Paid; GM Rankings with Patrick Daugherty

Episode Date: July 21, 2022

A virtual room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal bring you all the latest news from around the league, starting with Kyler Murray's monster extension (5:21). Jimmy Garoppolo has reportedly been given permission to seek a trade... again (12:35). The heroes finish up the news (15:24) before welcoming Patrick Daugherty aka RotoPat onto the show to talk through his GM rankings (24:24). The group discusses Bill Belichick's placement on the list at number 2 (27:25), and Gregg pushes back on John Lynch's ranking at number 5 (33:15). They cover Jon Robinson at 9 (38:36) and Brian Gutekunst at 10 (40:38) before zeroing in on John Schneider at 22 (46:02) and Brad Holmes at 20 (49:44). Finally, we attempt to determine the "Dalton Line" of General Managers and explain why it's Steve Keim (53:55). Note: timecodes approximate.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast. By God. Welcome to another edition of Around the NFL. I am Dan Hansis. I'm joined by a virtual room filled with some heroes. Greg Rosenthal, Mark Zessler. And I don't want to step all over this, boys, because we're about to hit it when we get to news.

Obviously, Kyler Murray got a big payday. How do we protect ourselves in the future? We're always striving to get better as a podcast, right? we spent so much time on Kyler Murray flotsam and jetsam and in the end it played out exactly as you would have expected if you were taken out of the bubble of the NFL world since you know that playoff game in January how do we avoid getting sucked into the BS next time when all the other podcasts and networks are going mad where we just nail it and say, we're not talking about this because this guy will do this right before training camp. How do we protect ourselves? You know, my one note that I wrote down here and highlighted, you know, I like to do that was just we went through so much to get here. I will say this,

though, like compared to the Aaron Rogers drama from the previous offseason, I found the Kyler Murray drama a little more delightful at terms because it seems so botched. Like the initial, I mean, in the end, though, Kyla Murray got what he wanted. I mean, he put out the agent's note, which was this Russian novel that seemed to only land like a, like with a big thud and have,

and the anti-effect. And you were questioning if he was going to even be with the team come the summer. Now it's like absolutely worked for Kyler Murray. So this was, I do think, though, the only other option, Dan,

would be if we just went, froze ourselves in carbonite for like two months because it's impossible not to talk about. Right. I've like gone a three, a whole process even since you asked the question like trying to come up with what you can do and I've landed on just acceptance that like if we're here we work for the NFL we're taking that paycheck all year long not just during the season not just really from now through February is

when it's truly interesting other than free agency in the draft and if we're just going to be showing up and collecting that paycheck and working we just got to we just have to accept that it's going to it's going to suck. There's not suck, but just be a little meaningless, a little bit out of air. I think you're right. I think we're just in the grind where I believe this podcast is in its prime years. And there will be a time when we're in our 50s, maybe early 60s, if we're still doing this, God willing, that, you know, we'll just disappear for the entire spring and summer.

And, you know, the quality of the show will not be nearly as good. And we'll just, because of that, miss all of this. and then yeah in that sense we will then we'll come back like the week of training camp be like oh kailer murray signed that deal just like we thought you know where i think we're doing a better job of it already we just don't notice because it's gradual we first of all we bring up that issue when we talk about kiler that it's probably going to just end up this way we know we're just spinning our wheels and i do think we've done a better job in the off seasons not paying as day-to-day attention and putting as much emphasis on the oTAs in the minicam so subtly

Our listeners are actually getting a better product because of our experience and expertise. I think we were fairly suspicious at each ebb and flow of this, too, about what was going on, that it was just going to end with money being paid to him. Money solves 99.8% of all of these issues. And that's what I just, I'd just be like, just get the contract into their hands sooner. That's a good point, Mark. Yeah, that's a great point, Mark. That's a good point, Mark.

Oh, Zach Kiefer, quietly. you missed that one, Dan. It just was like Mark's biggest fan. That had to be intentional. That Mark, that has to feel good. It wasn't. To have someone like a Kiefer just be so locked in on your takes. It just got to feel good.

I mean, I have Tony Grosie, another beat reporter, did the same thing. I'm really, my stock is rising with some of these. We hear those again because that's the thing is they weren't, it wasn't a bit. It wasn't on purpose. He was just so struck every time. with the light emanating from your mouth. That's a good point you made, Mark. Yeah, that's a great point, Mark.

That's a good point, Mark. It does feel authentic. It was like a 15-minute segment or something. It wasn't even that long. I think, Mark, I think this is, it's a sign. It's time for you to go solo. I think it's time for you to fly because when you're nailing that many takes at that level, you're carrying dead weight.

You mean just like a four-hour radio show of my own, a drive-time type scenario? Right, like you follow Petros and Money on KLOS or... Like, listenership just dives off the... They're not KLOS. That's a shame on me. Where are Petros and Money? Where could they be heard? AM 570 in Los Angeles.

AM 570. I am not a true West Coast. All right, let's do some news. Back to throw Murray in trouble, spins out of there to his left, being chased by two Vikings and launches a deep, wide open near side at the 40s. Rondale Moore caught at the 30, at the 20 at the 15. Team 10.5 touchdown.

Kyler Murray, you are ridiculous. Murray Magic, 77-yard touchdown pass. 99.9% of the quarterbacks on the planet gets sacked. But not only does Kyro Murray not get sacked? He throws a touchdown. Ah, Dave Pash, K-T-A-R. Yes, we're inside 50 days until the season begins. and one of my favorite things is the Sunday night calls on the flagship program.

That was obviously a memorable one involving Kyler Murray, who when he is at his best, is electrifying. And, you know, not enough to keep him in the superstar club, but maybe, maybe now with a new deal in hand with the Arizona Cardinals, his career resumes its upward trajectory. The cards and Murray agreed to terms on a five. year extension with Murray. Rap sheet and Tom Pelliserro reported Thursday. The five-year extension is worth $230.5 million with $160 million in guarantees. He's now set to earn $30 million in the first year of the deal, $69 million over two years, nice, and $106 million over three years, according

to Pellasero. And that extension makes Kyler Murray the second highest paid player in the NFL with an average per year value of $46.1 million puts him ahead of Aaron Rogers. behind Aaron Rogers, but ahead of Deshaun Watson, who signed that huge deal with the Browns. It's also official. Gregi, your thoughts on this move? Are you completely confident that the Cardinals are in bed with a quarterback that could take them to the highest level?

Yes. I think what Kyler's shown out of his first three years is incredibly impressive. And I think he's subtly improved every season. as a passer, and he was a very good passer to begin with. We're talking about this 2021 rookie class and, like, what they can do to improve. Like, think about how Kyler Murray stepped into the league as an above-average starter from day one. That is not easy to do. He's figuring out how much he can use his legs.

Definitely didn't run as much a year ago. I think he's figuring out how to use the middle of the field. Did that better a year ago. He has this trend and the Cardinals do as a whole of falling apart. late in the year. That's a concern. But this contract to me, Mark, like, it's through 2028. It just makes me feel like Kyler Murray's going to be there. I think there's a question whether Cliff Kingsbury and Steve Kime are going to be there. They got one of the weirdest contract extensions this offseason because it was for five years on top of the one they already

had coming. So they're through the next six seasons too and Kyler's through seven. In theory, that's stability. But if the Cardinals struggle and I don't love this roster, I think Kyler Murray has some things working against them this year. I do think there could be a change in that this contract helps to say to me, Kyler Murray is the franchise. And like Cliff and Steve Kime, they got to prove that they can stick around with him. I mean, the one thing is that, you know, Kyler Murray and Cliff Kingsbury are tied at the hip because he fits so well in the scheme, too. The Cardinals to me are a strange team. One of the stranger teams out there right now, I find them to be a little bit immature because of the way, I guess that's the word I'd use, because of the way they've crumbled down the stretch two years in a row.

When Kyla Murray is not healthy, it completely impacts his game. We've seen that two seasons in a row too. But when they were 10 and 2 at one point last season, they looked utterly unstoppable, totally powerful and completely dynamic. And that's sort of what Kyle Murray is to me. I think his ceiling is elite playmaker, but his floor is no showing in the playoff game against the Rams. I don't like, I just, I think that I wonder about Kyler Murray, the leader, Kyler Murray, the, how much is football like the center of his world? We'll see.

I think this also takes a lot of the, you know, the feelings he was having that were negative at the end of last season and solves all that. So you're right. They're totally tied into him. He has the chance to be back in that superstar club, Dan, I think if he, if the team, but a lot of that has to do with what the Cardinals doing. I don't know if I trust the team building or the coach, long term. And an underrated part of this, and I agree with all that.

The underrated part of this for him as well, I think, is durability, and he is not a big guy. We've talked about this on the show, and some of these fades down the stretch have been directly tied to him not being 100%. So he's kind of got to prove that he can take the beating that comes with being a quarterback that comes with going through a 17 game schedule. And then being at your best, needing, like, listen, that Rams team, where the Rams were in January. And I was at that playoff game with noted Cardinals fan, Jason Zumalt, way up in the raff. afters at SoFi, and it was a bloodbath. And Kyler, I'm not putting a loss on Kyler, but there's a part of me that came out of that game being like, man, the truly special quarterbacks, they kind of will their

team to stay in the mix and it doesn't turn into an embarrassment like that game was. But again, it's one game. It was a bad day. And I think it's so hard to identify and find a franchise quarterback. I agree with this move. I agree with the contract extension. But I just, I just, there's a little bit of trepidation to me still, and I think there are Cardinals and fans that will agree with me on this.

All right, we feel like we do have to pay him. This is a good day for the organization. But let's just hope this plays out. It's not like when you give, let's say, Justin Herbert an extension next year or Joe Burrow. And it's like, yes, we got this guy. This is seven more years of elite quarterback play and a leader and a guy could take us to the doorstep or to the Super Bowl. I don't know that yet about Murray, but I feel like they had to make the move.

Yeah, I don't know that yet either, whether he's going to be that consistent at that level. But the upside you were talking about, Mark, like the first nine weeks of last season, there it is. I went through my QB indexes for a different purpose a couple weeks ago, just looking at where certain quarterbacks were at the rankings. And I noticed, like, it was week 10 and Kyler Murray was number two. It was week eight and Kyler Murray was number one. That was the type of season he was having until the injury happened until it seems like defenses tend to catch up a little bit on what Cliff's doing. I just think he's just like so talented.

He's just such a talented thrower of the ball, which is such a basic thing. But like that's not going anywhere as long as he stays healthy. He's always going to be like top shelf, top five arms, I would say, in the NFL. And there's some like heady competition. that's just going to always keep him getting paid. Right. I mean, like PFF's pure pass rating from a year ago, Kyler Murray, despite the fade down the stretch of the entire team,

trailed only Joe Burrow and Tom Brady. In other quarterback news, the wheels of the Jimmy Garoppolo transaction that takes him away from the 49ers continue to turn slowly. Earlier this week, NFL Network's Ian Rappaport reported that Garapolo is expected to be clear, medically by mid-August, which is pretty late in the game, considering the season starts the second week September. And then ESPN's Adam Schaefter reported a day later that the 49ers

have given Garoppel permission to seek a trade. I didn't know that that wasn't already the case, but there you go. It was already the case. Yeah. That was a story in March. Literally there was a story from the same reporter that was like a game of permission. Just a reminder, you really have permission to seek a trade. And then Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com added. The more layering to this story by reporting that the Browns are still not expected to pursue a trade for Jimmy G. They're cool with Jake Brisket and then another type of backup, Josh Rosen, formerly of the Arizona Cardinals, a Steve Kime failed pick. By the way, Steve Kime and other GMs will be discussed later in this episode with the great Patrick Dardy, who did his GM rankings for NBC Sports Edge. We'll see where the Browns go with the quarterback, but most likely it is not going to involve Goropolo.

I just think that it is an awful offseason for a mid-level quarterback like Jimmy G to be seeking a trade to another team. I mean, the Seahawks we've talked about, we've talked about this 12 times. I guess the Texans maybe sort of a dark horse because there are past obvious Patriots connections in there and that's been whispered about. But where's he going to go? And who's going to want to pay that salary off a trade? And I think they also know that teams know they have the Niners over a barrel right now.

I mean, I've always thought that the best thing that could happen to San Francisco is training camp ticking off soon. Something disastrous happens to a starting quarterback else were in the NFL landscape. And Jimmy G. is your only other option. Yeah, I think that report that Ian put out that was like mid-August, it was positioned as like a positive thing that he's been throwing for a few weeks and like everything. You know, he's going to be stronger than ever. But I think that mid to late August timeline, it gets out there. And teams are like, oh, you know. No one wants them until that point, that's for sure.

And it was almost like a response, this report from ESPN that like they've officially given permission to the trade, even though we announced that they officially gave permission to a trade five months ago. It was almost a response to me to Ian's report saying like, hey, you can have them now and get them in your building. But it's not going to happen. And you're right, Mark, it's going to take some sort of injuries. I do think the Texans would make a lot of sense because I just think why wouldn't they, if nothing else happens, give him a Baker type of conduct. where they're only paying them $8 million and they'll give up a fifth round pick and they just have another quarterback in their building. I think that makes sense. In other news, Rapsheet also reports that there is, quote, some optimism that Saints wide

receiver Michael Thomas will be cleared early in training camp. Thomas, of course, recovering from that ankle injury. He suffered week one, 2020. It ruined that season. And then he missed all of 2021. He missed most of 2020, all of 2021 because of lingering. issues connected to that ankle. So it's such a big piece for the Saints. You know, they're playing Greg in a soft division. They have a lot of good pieces on both sides of the ball. But there are these two big questions, a quarterback with James and how he

recovers from a reconstructed knee. And then Michael Thomas, is he going to be back? Is he going to put the ankle in the rear of your mirror? And what kind of player will he be after essentially missing two seasons? I find him as important a veteran as any in the NFL. fellow to watch over the next six or seven weeks. We can get a little carried away of what happens in training camp because, you know, we're back in the machine and we're covering it every day and like making too big a deal out of things. But Thomas is someone that you want to really see

and hear progress from over the last six or seven weeks. It is very concerning to me that he's not ready for the start of camp. Like we were hoping all throughout last year like, ooh, is he going to get back? Is he going to get back? And here we are another six months later and he's not totally ready. That's a concern. I mean, I feel like we haven't seen him since about 1988. But, you know, they've got Jarvis Lander, you got Chris Alave. I think James Winston's healthy. That's all great. But it took Sean Payton to mask over the absence of Michael Thomas. I don't know that I have the confidence that Dennis Allen and company can do the same type of magic. Do you want more number one wide out murkiness? Please.

How about Debo Samuel? He requested a trade a couple months back. As far as we know, he never rescinded that trade request. And according to Tom Pelliserro of NFL Network, there is nothing imminent as it pertains to Samuel and the Niners agreeing to an extension. And this is important. It's unknown whether he will report to training camp on Tuesday when veterans are scheduled to report. This came from a Pelliserra report from yesterday.

So they have been in communication. They have had talks about a long-term deal. But it's unclear how close the parties are. This market remains a situation where it's unclear where they stay. them. Yeah. And I mean, this is so tied to the Jimmy G thing because if you move Jimmy G or flat out release them at some point, you open up $24 million in cap room, which they are in a terrible cap situation right now. Also, I mean, I know you could structure a deal any way you wanted for Debo. But the idea of, you know, we're going to get into talking about the Shanahan,

John Lynch, front office combination and what it means, how important is the Trey Lance is the guy they thought he was. But you tried to imagine a world where you put Trey Lance basically, walking off a plank into the ocean if you don't have debo samuel on the field i mean they just have to get it done in other past catcher news the buck signed tight end kyle rudolph formerly of the giants to a one-year contract i think this is a notable signing uh boys because uh kyle rudoff this version of kyle rudolph the age 33 version of kyle rudolph is the perfect guy to slot in you bring in in the summer and then he's going to fail and then you're going to look and be like we really need someone, and then that's when Gronk reenters the picture.

So you need that guy, Mark. You need the dude who's not going to get it done before Gronk can come back. This is the dude that will fail to get it done. This is a masterful central casting move here by the Bucks because you're exactly right. It's just you slide them in, you slide them right out. The minute that, you know, I gronk protest too much about this. I don't care. Tom Brady even called me.

I wouldn't come back and play. I still am fully 100% willing to bet my lease card that he'll be back on the field by Thanksgiving. All right. We seem to have lost Greg momentarily. But I thought you put a nice bow on that. I thought I'd nailed the overall take and then you came in and dropped a hammer on it, Mark.

And we nailed that. So we don't even need Greg's take. Exactly. And finally, in the news, let that be a warning shot for Greg. That I'll drop the hammer. Then you come in with a secondary hammer. nothing the nails already in the rail you know we're like the british bulldogs it's a very

successful tag team operation but you know gregg is sort of like the the manager of the tag team so what if we're the heart foundation and Greg's like a jimmy heart type character yeah i like that i think that fits that fits his vibe and finally in the news sound the trope alert derrick car is getting us going in training camp the right way with one of my favorite tropes not just for the NFL mark but all of professional sports no one believes in us no one thinks we're worth a damn no one thinks the raiders can even hang in the afc west which by the way no one's saying no one's saying what he had to say in a lengthy conversation with the athletic it's going to be fun no one thinks anything of us and i think this is actually how he said it as well and i think

that's what makes it fun is you always have to put the ball down and play the football games. That's exactly how he said it. I like it. I like the quote more with that tone of voice, if that's how he uttered it. I think it's garbage. I think most people view the Raiders as they're in a tough division,

but every other team in the division overtly improved in certain ways. And so I think that's the problem. They're getting lost in the conversation of the AFC West to some degree. But they were a playoff team last year that went through so much and they're better now. I think Josh McDaniels can improve them on offense. I don't quite get the us against the world bit on this one. I mean, yeah, they're a 10-win team that just added the best wide receiver in football. Right. Why would that, why would that trigger

sudden like a non-belief across the countryside towards the Raiders? It's just not the case. Like statistically, one of the greatest wide receivers ever smack in the middle of his prime. I mean, I feel like you at least have a chance. But that's what it is, Mark. I know we were making our way up the chain in the NFL podcast industry. We would have conversations like that as well. Nobody believes in us. Beholden to no one.

In some ways, there are still a lot of people out there that don't believe in us. And that keeps me hungry. I don't know about you. Yeah, I just stopped reading my DMs about a year and a half ago from, you know, anyone's filing a complaint. I just, I could care less. Absolutely. Speaking of that, before we take a break and get to Roto Pat, somebody on Twitter, you weren't with us on Mark, but we talked with Eric, owner of Huckapoo's, about this BS sound ordinance that's been put into place to specifically target the great Tybee Island hang, Huckapoo's, no live music, no music of any kind after 11 p.m. and I called the figure that's behind this

because apparently it's one person that logged a complaint and that was enough for the city council to pull their BS and we're fighting it and we're going to keep fighting it. I called the shadowy figure that's behind this

or perhaps it was members of the city council I can't remember this point but I called them human gutter balls. Okay? And someone on Twitter came after me and said, hey, bozo, that's mean to speak disparages

Lee of a person like that. And by the way, I don't think Chris would have been that way either, said anything like that either. To which I say, did you listen to the show with Chris Wesleying? Chris would have said so much worse than what I said. He would have completely gone off on this topic.

I think people have to remember that when Chris Wesleying was a Roto World writer way back in the day, it was not unusual for him to be logging his updates, and reports from Huckapoo's. He spent all his time there. It was his home, and he spent most of his early days in Los Angeles trying to find a place that reflected Huckapoo's, and it was not easy to find.

And so the idea that he would have been passive about this is completely incorrect. And Mark, by the way, Greg did not come back, and I just see now he just sent a text to Lakeisha in our group thread just now. So I guess he's out. He's out for the show. We'll try to get him back during the break. for a conversation with Pat.

I could see his hand gestures because we could see him, you know, visually on the screen. And he was very flustered and frustrated. And, you know, I think the office Wi-Fi took a big L here. Yeah, no, that is, that's the issue. But, all right, that's what's happening in the news. Let's take a break and then talk best and worst GMs. Hey, this is Matt Jones. Now, I'm Drew Franklin.

And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL professional. perspective a little bit different? Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining.

And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development

to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how team. put it all together on game day.

Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you.

Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies.

Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL, visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. of the fantasy extravaganza. Speaking of which, we'll be celebrating the 27th fantasy extravaganza next month. But right now, to talk about his latest column, a true banger, NFL's general manager rankings, 2022, is rotopat. Not today.

He's Patrick Dardy. What up, Patrick? Welcome back to the around the NFL. Very, very glad to be here. Just here to talk about some of your coworkers. So, you know, I'm not. Too soon, but yeah, you know, is this a good or bad time to publish this article, by the way? I can't ever decide, like, what's a good time to publish anything?

Here's a great, here's a great kind of way to get into that is that Greg a few months ago did his own GM rankings and that I expressed disappointment with Greg, not as a person, but from a podcast sense, that he didn't mouthpiece and say, hey, we should do a segment on your GM ranking. So we kind of missed the boat on it because then the draft came. But Greg, who's been doing this for quite a while, as you know, as you know, Pat, he does it in the spring. So, Greg, I don't know if you want to give Pat a heads up that maybe that's the better time or maybe Pat has it right. I don't know. Let's dig in. I used to do it in the spring, by the way. And I knew that Greg did it.

And this is not a joke. Actually, when I was done with the article, one of the first thing they had was pull up Greg's article. I was like, really hope we weren't like wildly divergent on a bunch of stuff. There was a little divergence. And actually, I thought that Greg was like annoyed and just not speaking right now, but it looks like his screens frozen right now. He appears to have been frozen. Or he's really mad. He's very good at being still.

So I think he actually is here. But Pat, this is a something we definitely, as soon as I saw it and I was reading, I was like, oh, yeah, you put in the work on this breakdown. This would be a fun conversation to have is, you know, and we just did the news and there's a lot cooking now. out of nowhere in the news and now training camps are about to really take off. So this is our last chance to really have fun with an article like this, I feel like, before the 2022 season gets off and rolling like a freight train. So let's talk about it. Mark Sessler, you, I know, buddy, read Pat's work here.

I read all 19,000 words. I really appreciate that. That which is impressive. What was your general takeaways from what Rotopat had to say in the state of the general manager job right now in the NFL. I thought he made some, a couple bold choices. I like him going less Sneed and Sean McVeigh, right out of the gate at number one. I do wonder, because you get to Bill Belichick at number two. I imagine that the reader response, that's where you get some people coming at you for the sense that, you know, Bill Belichick is an excellent coach, but I think sometimes the people view Bill Belichick,

the general manager, has having had some misses along the way. I just, I would say, generally overall, your writing is really wonderful in this. And I kind of found one or two lines for each one of these GMs that just stood out and made me laugh. Because we can always tell when you're, when you've been writing blurbs on Roto World, it's just like there's a little, there's a little extra spice to things that you say. And I thought this, this article was, was dotted and really like imbued with them throughout. This was a really nice piece of writing. It was. I totally agree. Let's start then. Kind of let's focus on the Belchick side of things. Because I think what you said, Pat, is interesting here. You wrote,

the piece that you cannot separate Bill the coach from Bill the team builder they are one in the same uh why do you say that what does that mean yeah so this is kind of the argument i advance every year with bellichick and kind of the argument you have to lean on as they get a little further from like the glory years like listen i know like it seems like bill the coach is still doing a great job and the roster isn't that great but uh what i what i mean by that is like we might not always understand the Patriots rosters. Say like 90% of the time we don't understand the Patriots

roster, but Bill Belichick, the greatest coach in league history understands the kind of players he needs and wants and like in this roster as much maligned as like the past five or six drafts have been as kind of like you know now they seem like increasing

desperation like dipping into the free agent market for kind of very unbelichick like signings you like five years ago if you'd heard Bill Belichick could shout out big bucks for Nelson Agalore. You'd be like, oh, what the heck? Like, has Bill Belichick been incepted? Has he been Jordan Appeals? Nope.

I have no idea what the movie's even about. I think you maybe nailed it. I think you may be. And I think it ties into what you're saying that on Tuesday's episode of around the NFL, we talked about making the leap candidates a piece that Greg was working on. And he was pleasantly surprised as a Patriots fan that there were several choices there. and that speaks to you do have a stable. Yeah, and like, so as questionable as so many of the decisions have looked the past two years.

So, I mean, okay, he lost the greatest player in league history, then went seven to nine. Maybe that's damning with faint praise to say that's an accomplishment, but I thought it was kind of an accomplishment, you know, to essentially not have a quarterback in 2020 and still go seven to nine. And then they just made the playoffs with a rookie quarterback. Like, I feel like normally that's like celebrated in team building circles. like it's not very easy to do and like it's one fact that I guess maybe I could be accused of like leaning on too heavily but it's like so I'm prone to giving Bill Belichick the benefit of the doubt for obvious reasons and maybe I don't

understand every decision on a micro level but macro level he supplied himself 53 players who got into the playoffs with a rookie quarterback so I'm like maybe I'm still going to give the guy a little benefit of the doubt you know a bit of a legacy ranking of course but here here's the top five just So we have it. So yes, Sneed McVeigh with their. And notice, even though it's GM rankings, as you point out in this piece, it's not really, it's not just the GM anymore in the league. More and more it is a collaborative effort. And the guys on the sideline, the head coaches have a big say in roster building in a lot of cases in addition to other people within a building personnel guys, the owner himself, all that stuff. But you have less need and Sean McVeigh at one. Bill, check it to. Greg, who joins us, by the way, is back with us. We'll see where he's at. in a minute. Brandon Bean of the bills at three. Andy Reed and Brett Veach are the chiefs at four and then John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan. I don't get more pushback about number five, by the way, Lynch and Kyle Shanahan.

But people are so much isn't so much tie. I'll give it to you. Yeah, go ahead. Give them some pushback there, Gregie. Real quick, too, Dan, too. You're right. I wanted to call it like front office rankings because I feel like it's less clear than ever. Like who is like.

Not as juicy, though. Doesn't have to say pop. No, that's what I was told. and like who is like driving the yeah like it's a very powerful force again the combination coach like personnel picker to the point where even like mat rule you know has like sweeping personnel powers so it is another era of very powerful coaches right now in the NFL Greg where are you now you're in a different room than when you froze in our studio I am now in shutdown corner that one that's like on the corner like a conference room that everyone walks by I haven't you would think that

there'd be strong internet in our studio, but that seems like a bad place to record a podcast. So are you cool just circling back? Are you cool with the timing of Roto Pat's GM rankings? Because yours came out back in the spring. He undercut me. These are in the dead of summer. Where do you come down? You're trying to create some sort of friction between me and my former coworker, Pat, here. It was successful when you did it with Evan Silva last year.

But it's not going to be successful this time. No, look, our, I think it was our editors. You know, we decided to do it before the draft a long, long time ago. And I think both times are a fine time to do it. If anything, I think Pat's smarter than we are here at the NFL. If you're going to drop something, drop it in that two-week period before training camp starts. That's when you get the most amount of attention because no one's doing anything. That's why our friend, Zach Kiefer, was so smart to drop that luck pod right then.

It was like the biggest story in the NFL for a week. So Pat's smarter than us. Mastering the Dead Zone. I've done it like six different months. And I've finally settled on like July. So but why, with that said, why Greg did Pat botch, number five, John Lynch, Kyle Shanahan, and the Niners? Although Belichick at two. I mean, I love Belichick as well.

You have him at 10. I was literally the first thing. When I finished the article, so I didn't want to read the article, so I wasn't, didn't have you in my head, like in my mind's eye, like, well, I'm writing the article. After I immediately checked and you had Belichick at 10. I got a lot of grief of like Belichick was too high at 10. And then people polarized reaction.

I was looking at more recently and he had a good year last year. I think he did well in free agency and great in the draft, best draft they've had forever. But they've been terrible drafting for a while now. Does John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan get a little too much credit here, especially Lynch here? Like, I still, it still bothers me, I guess, that they, you know, passed on Patrick Mahomes, you know, for Solomon Thomas and that they're still waiting for a quarterback all these years later. They could have taken a quarterback the next year after that, too.

And it kind of made the wrong decisions with Jimmy G. a long way. There's some premier talent there that they got at the top of the draft, certainly. And they've done a good job drafting. But I feel like that's a little too rich for me. Yeah, I feel like by and large, they get like the big decisions right with a couple notable exceptions in there and pretty good at like finding like shanny type players down the board. I mean, one of the shanty's like biggest foible is like these aggressive tradeups for guys like he has to have with any immediately like disregards. You know, like Dante Pettis or Trace or

like what makes like aggressive tradeups. And Tray Lance will definitely be the biggest test like of like was this like a crime of like shanny passion basically we're like the one month he had to have tray lance happened to be like april 2021 and like before and after that he's been cool on him and make it don't you think he's going to like subtly blame john lynch that feels like that's the reason if they think he's setting up a fall guy there that they have a divorce that lynch gets the axe because he's the lance guy and that kyle wanted mac jones all along right because I mean, Shanahan has been about his bulletproof, a coach, and he deserves that they've been to two NFC title games

in a Super Bowl over the last three years. But if the Trey Lance thing goes south, there will be a fall guy, and it won't be Shanahan. No. It's the, it's kind of a good SEG idea, so I'm going to burn it right now, unfortunately. But like, what is, if you had to pick one, like what's the juiciest subplot of the 2022 season?

I think Trey Lance and what happens this year tied to that team with that coach and where they are in the NFC is such a huge storyline because, you know, they are, if Trey Lance is who they thought he could be or approximation of that this season, they're, to me, the NFC favorite. And if he bombs out and you trade Jimmy G. And that's certainly in play right now. This whole thing could go up in flames. So it's just a huge subplot.

And like here's another, Brian Gutikens is another. I want to see where Shanney and Shanahan come down on this. same ranking next year. Maybe one of those guys won't be even in the ranking next year. But Brian Gutikunz, I don't think he's coach GMing for his job this year by any stretch. But it's fair to say that he kind of is in a situation now where the Devante Adams situation played out the way it did. And you could say it wasn't even his fault. I think you used the wording in your piece bat that he forced his way to the Raiders. And he kind of did.

But maybe if if he could have done it again differently, Gutikunz, maybe he had done it again differently, good accounts, maybe he handles that situation and maybe the best wide receiver in the league is still in the team. You have these other project players like Lazard, Watkins, Watson, all in the mix. Where would the Packers fall in this exercise, especially if this doesn't work out this year? It's very interesting to find out. It is. And it's a real quick to put a bow on the 49ers. So it's like the way I viewed it like this, they've made a 53 men roster that was good enough to make the NFC championship game twice and three years with Jimmy Garoppolo. Like that's a good

Ross, like a stockpiled talent on defense, identified shanny type playmakers in offense. But then, yeah, like kind of like a heat check, making a luxury pick, like right in the middle of your Super Bowl window. It is going to be like an era-defining decision for them. The Packers and Brian Gutakuntz, it's like he's gone from Aaron Rogers being out of the long-term plans to now Aaron Rogers is the only plan. And like, you know, his most visible mistake, of course, was not restocking the receiver core but it was fine as long as they had the best receiver on the planet but then the best receiver on

the planet happened to be soulmates with derrick car and like that's sometimes though like them's just the brakes is the GM apparently and now like you know that love story was hiding in plain sight this entire time it was in plain sight wasn't it where well i mean i thought that that interview from last summer or divine to abs like yeah like it's like i'm still a raiders fan like oh that's so interesting and like saying it says college quarterback is on the team and i just like didn't pay any attention to it though like memory hold it. And yeah, the Goudicunds tie wire act really dependent on Devante Adams. And now we're going to see if there was any safety net whatsoever. I had a question for you. I mean, I'm looking at when you get past the sort of top five region, someone like

John Robinson at number nine, I think is mildly controversial because I feel like Mike Vrable has done a lot to make John Robinson to erase some of John Robinson's mistakes along the way. But whether it's him or someone else, was there a GM that you really struggled with where to put him, that he maybe started high and went low? Because I feel like Robinson could be farther down this list, and I wouldn't have a big problem with that at all. Really, the whole John Robinson region. It was eight, Howie Roseman, nine, John Robinson, 10 is Goudicundt, 11, Chris Ballard, 12, Eric Acosta, who I probably do have too low, Eric Acosta.

Like, Eric Acosta is really good. Just kind of, like, have to see, like, slightly more results, even though the president. process has been really good but john robinson was a guy like before i had like done any research where i'd written any words and like you know i need to get john robinson like kind of high in these rankings because they've won what they won 32 games the past three years they've been a number one seed they've made the a fc championship game they've done this with ryan tanahill and i'm like to do that kind of stuff with ryanneal quarterback you have got to have like a great roster but then you kind of remember like oh you know the titans defense you know actually they have jeffrey

Simmons, but kind of like low on overall playmakers. It seems like depends a lot on Mike Rable, kind of like duct tape and gluing things together. And John Robinson getting a lot of big decisions wrong. Like Isaiah Wilson is not even on the team anymore. Caleb Farley, kind of living up to pre-draft durability concerns, the Julio Jones trade a disaster. So yeah, John Robinson was one where I definitely had to adjust my prior. It's like, yeah, I wanted to say this guy was underrated, but now maybe I'm like overrating him. And this is really kind of all about Mike Rable. being an elite coach he hired he gets a little credit i consider that credit for hiring i i consider that in the rankings he was right around the same spot for me i had him 11 but in the same

area he's actually done a pretty good job drafting and he gets credit for tana hill too to to fix your quarterback position uh that well that cheaply is amazing and i got to stand up for my guy goody i had him up at number four it's like okay it doesn't look great that your receiver room isn't totally perfect right now but if if there's a position on the roster that I don't mind being underserved when Aaron Rogers is your quarterback, it's wide receiver. And the rest of the roster looks awesome. The defense looks loaded.

I would say that's a top five defense on paper. And compared to where it was when Goody came over, he has nailed most of his draft picks and all they have done is one. And I do blame the playoffs or anything to me isn't on the GM. He put together a roster that has won so many games. they could go like 0 and 18 this year, they could maybe do it again next year and they wouldn't have as bad a record

as Kyle Shanahan and Lynch do it together who are under 500. I mean, that's how good the Packers have been. I'm just saying, like, I'm giving them a little bit of credit for the first decision you make is Jaya Alexander. You know, your other picks who people didn't love like Rashan Gary looks like a potential all pro. I mean, he has, for the most part, made sound decisions.

I didn't even hate the process of taking Jordan Love at the time. I think I'm one of the few, And even now, if he's like a decent backup quarterback, I don't hate it. I love what Goody's done. I also think like with Goody, it's like a lot of it is, you know, conflict resolution. And the Aaron Rogers thing got really rough, but he found his way out of that. I mean, in another world, Aaron Rogers isn't on that team if the, if the front office completely lost their way.

And LaFleur was the right move. Whether that was totally in decision or not, he was, he was on board with it. So Greg thinks it's quote unquote good if your roster goes 13 and three every year. Right. that maybe you're underrated and your defense is the backbone of the Goody Project where great picks like Jayaeer

like great offensive line too though like Elton Jenkins Yeah and the great free agency finds like Devondre Campbell even and he signs Zedarius Smith right That was the Goody also Resil Douglas yeah But just yeah just those receivers

You know you just maybe hadn't drafted the H-back Josiah Degura the Jordan Love you know just maybe drafted a receiver then That would have been nice I like that you got sucked into the same thing I get sucked into with the power rankings with Andrew Berry and anything Browns-related. You don't really know what to do with them.

So you just pop them in the middle around 17, 16. Because you can't remove, obviously, the Watson, the player from everything else at this point. However, if you did in a vacuum and you said this GM gave up all these draft assets and all this money and got this franchise quarterback, you'd be like, yes, you always make the move to get the young franchise quarterback. So in that way, obviously, he made the team better, but because of all the other garbage that he brought into the organization and he wasn't alone, Barry, you create the situation where they're a very hard team to distill or figure out, including in this exercise, because what Barry did was both a great personnel move and also like a gross life move. So it's just, again, everything is so much more difficult with the Browns now. And just even beyond Watson, everything with the Browns, they've had such like turnover in the front office that I still feel like it's like truly difficult to know where like, like, it's difficult to know where to like truly assign like credit or blame for anything. It's like there's some of this is still like the John Dorsey era. Some of it. What is Paul DePodesta like really doing? Like what is Jimmy Haslam? Like Jimmy Haslam is insisting Andrew Barry was like the brains behind the Deshaun Watson move. But I don't know if I really believe that. You know, it seems. seems very much like an owner move. And yeah, so it was hard to get past my distaste for the Watson move.

And then also just hard to really know, it's an opaque organization with so much turnover and really know what is going on in the front office there. But I mean, I think a year ago, because I think the Watson thing absolutely colors the viewpoint of Andrew Barry and his legacy, too, depending on how this all shakes out. But a year ago, Andrew Barry would have been kind of a sexy top 10 GM. candidate, I think. After taking, you know, when he took over, you know, he returned to the Browns. He left for the Eagles and came back. So there was been a lot of weird changeover and stuff. But when he returned and to turn them into a team that beat the Steelers in the playoffs with a

really interesting young roster, he's drafted well. Like he looked like a shining star. I just think that this move soils everything that you think about the team and him and the front office and everyone else. Yeah, there's nothing sexier than coming in and immediately fixing your offensive line, which is what he did. And like you said, there's an alternate universe. I mean, where he's, yeah, an ascendant, viewed as like one of the most ascendant personnel people in the entire league. And yeah, it's just hard now for, especially, it's just hard to separate it all now. And I don't know if I'll ever be able to properly evaluate. Well, and they underperform last year.

As much as everyone said they had the best roster in the league, they weren't, you know, they were, they were average. That hurt, too. Yeah, they had their injuries and Baker's injury certainly was a big factor. But it's like I've seen Andrew Barry rank, like PFF had their top five GMs and they had. had him like third and process, and it's like you're trying to separate what happened this offseason from everything else. It's like, well, you can't. Well, how can you?

If it works out, that's a different conversation in terms of wins and losses. But there's a very good chance he's going to wear this for the rest of his career. And it was something that everyone put their careers on the line when they made the move. I've got to ask you, Rodo Pat. John Schneider at 22. I imagine this is another one that's getting, you know, Seahawks fans on Twitter. are quite an active group, but... They are.

Active is the right word. Yes, they are active. I mean, to allow Russell Wilson to lead the team, I think that drops him a lot because you're back starting looking over at quarterback, and it essentially allowed Pete Carroll to win the power battle there, which I'm not sure is the right way to go. But where was he a year ago for you versus now? Well, that's what's so funny about John Snyder is this is the first year where I finally just like plunged him like put him I put him beyond 20 and I had always kept him like benefit of

the doubt like top 10 where he was still like eight or nine the past years and I got like so much flack for that like you have Steve Kime above him which I find interesting yeah hold on hold on a second yeah well wait do you yeah does he get the Schneider still get credit from the early uh odds because to be behind the Kine bomb at this point is a tough pill to swallow the Schneider ranking is basically when you're a guy with that long of a track record and who's like been to some Super Bowls and you're getting ranked that low it's basically like a rank that's like a prediction like this person will be fired in a year or two basically and it's hard to me it's a string of legendary draft classes of course basically to begin the Pete Carroll era uh for Richard Sherman

Russell Wilson etc etc etc and then you notice a little diminishing returns uh the past and then like the two signature moves I on this era where my might finally, the passing Golden Age might, you know, kind of be ending, but you don't really want your signature moves to be trading two first-round picks for a safety and then getting two first-round picks for your franchise quarterback. And it's just like hard to shake. And, you know, I personally fine with teams going contrarian to the run right now, as we saw last year, like that could be a pretty successful short-term approach.

Like, I don't think the Seahawks have the defense or the offensive line for that approach to work. and it just kind of seems like Carol and Schneider out of ideas and I don't know why the Seahawks allowed Pete Carroll to win this particular power struggle with Russell Wilson but it just seems like delaying the inevitable and this is going to be like a new front office in a year or two. Yeah, I think we've talked about the ownership issue. I think the fact that they're going to be selling

but they don't necessarily want to change up what's going on there before they do sell. It's too bad because if you just stop time in 2015, you would have said John Schneider and Pete Carroll are some of the best drafting and developing defensive talent minds in NFL history. But the defense has been totally mediocre since then. And basically everything that they've drafted, for the most part,

they've struck out getting above mediocrity and getting good picks. Although I do think on paper this year, they're intriguing. And they might be like a top 10 type of defense, little Pete Carroll Renaissance. Well, it would be, it would be very funny. I mean, as much as I don't believe in Pete Carroll anymore, like, I do kind of want him to win the argument.

I just think it would be so funny. I'm kind of rooting for a contrarian Seahawks, like, go 11 and 6, and everyone's like, well, of course, because Gina's. With Mazoo, Mazoo, great, Drew Locke, under center. Hey, this is Matt Jones. Now I'm Drew Franklin, and this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel?

That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more.

What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year.

Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. Michael F. Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager

or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. All right, I want to look at number 20. First of all, I'm very happy that you put Joe Douglas inside the top 20. He's in the teens.

He's at 19. I don't know if all this stuff is going to work out, but I think he's instilled some credibility for my Jets right now. And now we've got to see if it all comes together. But I like what he's doing. I like the moves he's made. Brad Holmes also, I like what he's doing. here and you make a good point in your write-up pat how you know he got right to work when he got

the job he moved matthew staffer didn't want to be there got the draft picks and has used this draft he's been patient since he's taking the job they don't have their future quarterback yet but while they wait for that big-time draft or opportunity to present itself he's making the roster better better so i like even coming off a season with a really poor record the bigger pictures and view for rotopat. Yeah, I mean, Brad Holmes, I like, he's not trying to cut corners. He's being a box checker where it's very hard to have two top seven picks and not take a quarterback either time.

But I guess this wasn't the right time either. And so he's doing the next big thing, next best thing where he's box checking. Let's get a franchise tackle. Let's take a shot, like a number one weapon for the offense. Let's get the coach. And like Greg said, you can't ignore the coach. you know, make the bows the best the most, I can't speak English, of being a rebuilding team and stockpile the picks.

And it just seems like they're whipping everything into shape. And, you know, kind of the downside of that is that if you kind of get into like seven or eight win land, then you kind of almost take yourself out of position to make the quarterback the next box to check. So I guess that can be like the downside to this approach. But I don't really know what the alternative was, you know, there was no quarterback pick divorced this year. There really wasn't last year either. I mean, unless we believe in Justin Fields. And so I just like the Brown. They certainly could be regretting not taking Mac Jones in a few years.

You know, Mac, you know, Mac, you know, Mac's going to be one of those fast. He's only one of those guys for like the next five to ten years and gets himself into every single conversation. Greg, what do you, do you think that was Mac one of those guys? I don't want to get early career ceiling. Is he already bumping up against the ceiling? or do you really think there's more steps for Mac Jones to take? I've been too on the record about this. All I mean is if he has like a multiple Pro Bowl type of career, which feels very possible that they could look back on,

you know, taking Peney Sewell over him, certainly. But yeah, I think it's got a high feeling. No one will focus on the lines. It'll be all about Shanny not taking him. And so Brad Holmes will be out of narrative hell

because he can just like kind of like sneak out of the room while people talk about Shannie not taking Mike Jones. I love what they do. almost everything they've done focusing on both lines right off the bat. They've been great. And the Joe Douglas thing, putting Joe Douglas in 19th is kind of like Jets fans don't yell at me. Like I like the process more or less where he's doing the same thing as Brad Holmes really. He's taking a shot at quarterback.

They hopefully have their left tackle of the future. It's kind of hard to say what's going on with Bechton. And but this year, you know, they, where they made three first round picks, they get a pass rusher. they get a wide receiver who is the other third round first round pick they got a number one cornerback and i had two like the joe douglas box checking and unlike brad holmes he doesn't have a quarterback alibi anymore because like now he's already on the spot at quarterback and if if jack wilson doesn't take a you know a clear step forward this year the joe douglas project is suddenly looking very shaky but i have liked the postgase approach and gregg i just want to make sure because

i want to pin you down on this if if your boy up there in new england ends up going to a couple Pro Bowls, but it's like the Matt Schaub multiple Pro Bowl thing where he got in as like a seventh reserve because the guy in front of him, his daughter at a dance recital and the other guy. Like Mac Jones's first Pro Bowl. Last year doesn't count. He did actually make the Pro Bowl and made a ridiculous play in it, but that doesn't count. Anything else before we say goodbye to Mr. Roto Pat, who we'd love to have back, by the way, for the fantasy extravaganza. I don't know if he's going to be available. I don't know if we'd have to pay for them, but it would be awesome. Is there anything else, Mark, that jumped out to you or Greg from this list, Trent Balke, by the way, for people

who are curious as it sits at the bottom of the list. That's kind of an incomplete. I mean, I think he might remain there, but that's kind of incomplete. But yeah, I think he might end up staying there. I have a question for the group because, you know, we have our, our Dalton scale where, like, if you have essentially Andy Dalton back in the day as your starter, anything but below him on the list, you need to find someone else fast. And like, what would be the Dalton scale of the GMs? For me, when I took a look at this, I thought maybe, I don't see, I don't really agree where you have John Snyder, but for me, it's sort of Steve Kime.

I was going to say Kime feels like he's it. That does make sense. Because he makes the playoffs every once in a while. Sure, they never win a playoff game. And sure, it might have been Bruce Ariens. But, and sure, he gets every first round pick except Kyler Murray wrong. but he occasionally does some good stuff. And he, yeah, he's, I feel like Kime is the Dalton line of GMs.

I mean, the ownership thinks he's better than that. They've paying him through 2028. I do. There's strange goings on there occasionally with the front of the Cardinals ownership. Like worst decision the Cardinals ownership made was leaving St. Louis, of course. But Greg, that actually plays into the argument because the Bengals held on to Andy Dalton for way longer than frustrated fans would have thought. too. I think Kime's a good one is a pretty good pick.

If you're below Kime, it's time to move on. So again, John Schneider's going to be fired next year. It's a shame. He has a good executive. They had a great run, but he's going to get fired. The pride of St. Louis, Patrick Dardy. Thank you, buddy, for joining us. Say hi to your 14 kids and your wonderful wife. We'll catch up with you soon. My true pleasure and I will make myself available for the extravaganza. Yes. So like 4 a.m. Copenhagen time. I'll be there. Thank you very much, guys.

Thank you, Pat. All right, there he goes. Roto, Pat. Great to have him. Yeah, that's, I think, who else would be even in that conversation for, I think Kimes got that on lock. Well, there's something weird with GMs. I'm looking at all of them, and they either seem like their career is falling apart too

much to be that person or they have too much of a good body of work to be that person. And so I almost, like, because time to me is a bit of a house of cards that I think might be falling apart. So I don't even, I don't even think he's quite there. But he's had his up and down, certainly. Maybe that makes sense. But the rest, like the guys I had in the middle, Tom Telesco, Jerry Jones, like, those guys are too good to be with all. It's kind of survivor, too, getting the Kyler Murray done after all that. You know, that's, I feel like that will help him as well because that will keep them most likely from having like an epic type of fallback, fall down.

the standings, but we shall see. Kime has survived like five nuclear wars at this point. So, I mean, it's, you know, the organization has allowed him to make these mistakes and continue to, continue to reward him, basically. If you miss on a top 10 wide quarterback, usually that will get you. But then he got to pick another guy the very next year. So he's kind of in his own category. It's bizarre.

As has been our final episode with Greg in a conference room. in some part of the building, bright red chairs behind him. It seems like the place where people get fired, that room you're in right now. I think you know which one. It's the one we pass every day, right? That's the closest to the newsroom. That's in between the podcast studio. It's shut down corner.

It's where Stefan Gilmore's picture is right at the front, making that beautiful leaping interception in one of the greatest Super Bowls of your lifetime game, 13 to 3 Patriots. I don't, I don't, obviously. never a celebration when someone loses their job but our office does name the different rooms like you're saying after great moments in NFL history what if there was an office that was only for dismissals and firings and it was like called like naggy's nook and there's a big matt naggy on the sideline looking confused or bewildered or angry not a bad idea and if you like get called

into the meeting and naggy's nook well that might be a meeting to try to avoid or miss yeah because I like that much better because the idea that you'd go and get fired in like the shutdown corner, like every time for the rest of your life when you hear the term shut down corner, it's tied to this awful moment. It would change the way you feel about the sport to some degree. That's terrible. But who would be like a famous NFL figure in terms of like they're almost famous for getting fired a lot? Like I guess Chip Kelly racked up a few in short order. It's like Norv Turner over the years just because he got so many chances. They've lost some jobs. I like Nagy's Nook.

I think it's got some power. I think it's got some pop. I like it goes up the tongue. All right. Like I've said, this is our last show last week with two shows. We'll be back all together in the studio starting on, what are we doing, Monday? Back together Monday? Let's do it.

It's back together Monday or whatever that day is. Back together Monday on around the NFL. Training camp will be in full swing. And so will we. So thank to everybody for listening. And we will see you again soon. And remember, Chris Wesleyan always said. Heed the call.

Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more.

This is an IHeart podcast. Thank you.