NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Lev Bell's Done & Teams Marc Hates

Episode Date: November 14, 2018

In a room filled heroes – Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Marc Sessler and Chris Wesseling – react to Lev Bell not playing in 2018 after missing yesterday’s reporting deadline (4:50), the NFL’s decision to move MNF Chiefs-Rams game out of Mexico (12:35), oh, and it is time to revisit a prop bet [get those sandwiches ready] (16:50), also, is Lamar Jackson’s time nigh in Baltimore (24:30)? Following the news, the heroes psychoanalyze Marc [both scary and beautiful] to solve why he dislikes certain potential playoff teams, including – quit coddling Green Bay (30:30) and the Rams’ luster is wearing off (35:00). After, it’s desperation time for the Packers and Seahawks on TNF (47:50) and lastly, Ey Oh, it’s mailbag time (53:50)!Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The Around the NFL podcast kills it at Trivia Night. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hanses, joined in a room filled with heroes, Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosenthal. What is Up Boys? Hey, Dan. That's actually a good point. I feel like if we ever did this, right now it's 25 cabs, 25 locations.

What's a good point? If we all came together as a foursome and went to the local trivia night down at the motor, is that what it's called again? The garage. The garage. And we... Only been there like 74 times. We pulled the intellect of the four of us, perhaps.

We would win. I think we might. We kind of cover all the bases. Cover different bases. Most places, but not the garage. That is a very crowded field of trivia minds on that trivia night. I've been on a couple teams that came close in that room. Yeah, but you did win.

I would not count us out, is what I'm saying. There's also like five other taverns within walking distance that have trivia nights. Those taverns we can dominate. That's the, that's big fish, small pond, though. Right. We're going to do it. Let's do it. Who's in?

It's not a hard sell. I think you can't go in with nine or ten drinks and you've got to go in, you know, cognizant. We need to do that. We need to diversify. I mean, you asked, yeah. I mean, even when I did have all the time in the world, I was not looking to spend it at trivia night

with a bunch of Jemokes. All right. There you go. Very on brand. Big show coming up today. I mean, why can't the four of us just go out and enjoy each other? That seems like more fun to me.

Dan is trying to stress the option of a group activity and maybe achieving something to get that. That would be enjoying each other. That would be fun, maybe. Just saying, there's only so much time left on this earth. How much do you want to spend it at Trivia? What? A lot.

I mean, come on. Everyone is different. Right, I don't want to spend it, you know, at Mitzki concerts, whatever. Right, exactly. We all have our own. We all have our own. Well, I tried. All right.

Well, the three of us will go. We'll text you and we'll send a photo and tell you how it went. Uh, get the Mitzki concert. Well, have fun, guys. Oh, do you want to jump out? No, yeah. No, she's going with me to the Mitzki conference. She's going with me to the Mitzki conference.

concert she's just coming back around all right big show coming up today um teams mark hates in fact i will i will uh i will add a word there good teams mark hates or i could i could even add a few which is more like teams mark hates but we don't understand why that's a lot of words yeah but that's kind of hitting at it because you because you hate even more teams but these are the ones that confound us that you hate i like to call it the latest things on mark's radar that's also see all these things are accurate Mark do you agree with all these I think you're getting closer and closer with each retitling of the segment also we are going to hit the TNF preview we've had a series of dogs bad games on Thursday night but maybe the streak ends on Thursday night in Seattle Packers Seahawks two evenly matched teams and I feel like we're getting good a good one I feel good about this Greg I every time these two teams play in Seattle it's a good one all right and for that opener you went to i don't really remember that was a one side of blowout defending champions but still you know too high you know whenever aaron rogers is in seattle and the

crowd's going nuts fun well not according to mark we'll get to that we'll get to it also if we have time we're going to hit up the mailbag but before we do that let's start the way we always do with some news Mayfield, behind the center. He's going to the entry for the novato. There's a hole there's a week. There's a 20.

Nick Chopp. Still, he's still at the feet. 30. Nick Chowp. 25, 40, 50. Nick Chob!

After the baby! Nick Job! Touchdown! Yes, sir. The novato, with the course,

the new battle. Tremendon a wayco for the right and he says to God to the Falcos. All right.

That's a lot. Nice, nice work. That's okay. We have the Monday night football crew. We would, you know, we should clip that off, by the way, add it to in the running for top calls of the year. That's a great idea, Dan. The Spanish broadcast calling Nick Chubbs a 92-yard touchdown.

Longest play of the from scrimmage all year by any team. Can we get that broadcast on Monday night football? I think it's impossible. Telemundo. I think you have to move to another area. of the world. It might be worth it. All right.

Let's start with, all right, so Nick Chubb running back on the rise. Running back completely out of play for this year, and we won't see him again until 2019 is Levyon Bell, because the months-long saga around whether Bell will report to the Steelers is no more. The deadline on Tuesday came and went. He did not sign his franchise tender,

which means he foregoes the full $14.45 million. And I like, this has been an annoying. reported story all along. And the most recent one was and $200,000 in benefits. All right. Well, we got, you know, $14.5 million. That's enough.

That's fine. Just tell us that. Eight quarters falling out of his pocket. Exactly. So he kicks that money for whatever reason. He has his reasons. And he's deciding, don't touch me. Kevin Colbert, the GM of the Steelers, issued a statement.

I want to confirm that Lev Bell did not sign his franchise tender today. and as a result, he won't play this season. The Steelers, Greg, still have some semblance of leverage when it comes to player. It's not like this totally cuts ties between the two sides, but this has to be the end, right? It sure sounds like the Steelers are happy to let him go and test the free agent market without making any real effort. Even though there's some talk that the relationship is fine, and who knows, they might even make some sort of offer like they did going into this season,

which was aggressive, they did not seem to want Bell to show up this season. And at least by the time they got to mid-October, this was the result they were hoping for, which is amazing to think about when you think that Bell has, you know, averaged over 1,800 yards from scrimmage over the last two years. I know finger-wagging football Twitter has decided nobody's allowed to have an opinion on Levi-on-Bel's actions. But this seems like one of the most futile holdouts I've seen in sports. He claims to be doing it to help other non-quarterbacks.

I don't see how it helps anyone, including Levi-on-Bel. On the other hand, I understand it's important to have principles, taking a stand on things that are more important than money. I've done that in my life, so I totally get it. Go follow your own path. I'm fine with him doing what he wants. When the story turns tedious, because it's been going on forever at this point, is when you're getting bullied by sports writers on Twitter to don't have anything to say about Levian.

You're not allowed to. his business. But from a football standpoint, I know there's going to be two or three teams. I don't think it's going to be six to eight or ten. I think it's going to be a handful of teams that are going to be willing to potentially give Levi-on-Bel a massive contract. The Jets have been talked about as one of these

teams. I don't, Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt, all these guys that are drafted and give you a low-cost. James Conner option. It's a very successful option running back. Do you really want to go pay Levy on Bell, this massive amount of money that he's demanded? You can make, you can make

the case that the holdout achieved the exact opposite because all it did was show that the Steelers were probably right not to give this guy entering his late 20s a huge contract when you can always look inside in-house find the young guy that's cheap that can give you the same production. Greg, you can say that this is the opposite of what Lev Bell was trying to do. I don't know if I go if I'd go that far. I don't think he's happy. He wouldn't have looked to be out for the season to begin with. So yeah, James Connor doing well. He did say that last year that he was willing to do it. He did say he was not playing under the tag and he's not going to play in the season if it's under the tag.

And so he's stuck with that. I still think he's going to get paid well. I still think it's not a disastrous move in his career and he has a long time moving forward. And I do think he's still a really special player who deserves a lot of money and people don't need to be so dogmatic about this position deserves money and this position doesn't. It's like, Tremaine Johnson was the most paid player in free agency. Because of the franchise tag. Partly, yeah, because it raised... What do you mean?

He got paid because of the franchise tag. Two years in a row. He was an unrestricted free agent, and the Jets decided to pay him a huge amount of guaranteed money. After he had gotten more than he would have gotten on the open market from the franchise tag. I guess, but that shouldn't really, if anything, that makes Leveon Bell's floor even higher for him

because he's just gotten paid a lot under these two franchise things. Someone's going to pay him. I'm just saying from a team bill. perspective. I trust the Steelers because the Steelers have been one of the best team builder and operations around. And if they decide not to pay Levy on Bell this huge contract. But they did. I mean, they offered them a long-term deal. Right. Todd Gurley got paid. David Johnson got paid. Levy and Bell will too. Great players should get paid and he's a great player. And a lot of players that aren't great in the NFL like Nate Solder get paid. So, okay, you can tell me that you paid. He would

have got paid had he accepted the Steelers off. Right. Exactly. And he will in the end. My point is, yes, everyone's saying, you know, there's some finger wagging. You can't have an opinion. But there's just as many people kind of on the other side that's just saying it's such a stupid thing. What a horrible mistake he made. Or that we won't know if it's a good idea or not until we see the contract. And I don't really see it that way. I think he made the decision that he thought was right for him.

It's not just about money. Because if you're just waiting to see if he's going to get a better contract and whether that makes up the money, that's not really the way he's looking at it. And I agree with Mark that I think from the Steelers side, I have no problem, and it makes sense everything that did it. It's almost something where I don't think anyone made a crazy mistake. It just was a confluence of a lot of different events coming together.

Both parties seem fine with it. Right. So that's what I mean. I wonder, and there's no way to know this, but I wonder if in 10, 20 years, Levin, on Belver, we'll get giving up almost $15 million in the prime of his athletic life to play football. But I'm not judging him. I'm just wondering if when he looks back on it.

It is. Will he regret it? It wasn't going to make him underpaid to take that money. It was going to make him the highest paid running back in the NFL for two straight years. The career that he's had in the toll that he's taken, like taking a year off from getting slammed, you know, from other defenders. I don't know. No one knows what effect that's going to have, whether he thinks that's a positive in the end

to take a year off of your career. Like if any one. Negative. Right, it could be a negative. It could be a positive to take a year off in the middle of his career. I don't know. I do like, though, that in all these situations, we always assume the player is going to come back. And this is one time where it's like, I guess there is another outcome.

You know what I mean? Like we always just assume, well, this is going to eventually end. And not every, not every time because when's the next time someone's going to give up that much effing money? It's just amazing that it came to this. I'm old enough to remember Sean Gilbert doing it for about, what, two or three million? Right. That was like 15 years. Then he got traded for two number one draft picks.

That's a different time in the NFL. He'll get paid. Maybe there won't be a ton of teams. Like the Jets, as an example, they'll back up the Brinks truck for Levill. The Jets are for what it's worth the betting favorite. Well, let's find out who the general manager is. It's not worth much. But, yeah, the Jets are the betting.

Well, all this talk that, like, he won't be accepted into locker rooms and teammates. I mean, come on, stop. Vincent Jackson went to the Buccaneers and was held up as, like, one of the best community players they ever had after he had after he had done that in San Diego. And the thing I think just. that has been lost. I know he's a running back, but he's a guy that Chris talked about,

and we all talked about in this podcast, was unlike any running back we've practically ever seen. And he was one of the best running backs, I think, that we've seen in the last two decades. So it's like that, and he had a great Steelers career. He sure did. Moving on, a big change. The NFL is taking great efforts to expand the sport

beyond the United States. And one of their showcase games this year, addition to the London series, was their game slated for Monday night in Mexico City at Estadio Azteca? It's not happening because the Chiefs and Rams over issues with the quality of the field. And whether or not it was playable, it had been beaten up, bad weather, a Shakira concert, which I don't know if I, would I go see Shakira? Maybe. She seems like she'd put on a good show. I'd go.

It's beautiful, beautiful woman. And talented. and intelligent. Talent at first, Greg. Why do you need to... I mean, I'm only aware of, like, one of... I'm only aware of her songs. That's not true.

But we don't have time for that right now. You know at least three Shakira songs, I bet. Antweans. That's not one of them. You got the one with Wycliffe, that, of course. Hips don't lie. The league announced Tuesday that's all I got. That's all I got.

That the Chiefs and Ramps, two nine and one teams, a potential Super Bowl preview, will be playing at the L.A. Coliseum this upcoming Monday because of the issue. with the playing surface. Mike Garifolo of NFL Network reported earlier Tuesday that the league was monitoring the situation. We had some players or we had some reporting

that bubbling up about players saying they might sit out of the game and that probably feels like a tipping point. Once the players were putting it out there that their safety was in danger, it kind of in some ways potentially forced the NFL's hand. So the game now goes from Mexico City to L.A. the one thing in the NFL never gets credit for things. But I think they did the right thing. Getting it out of Mexico City, if their field wasn't good,

as big of a pain in the ass, that is, for our poor friend, handsome Hank, and everyone else that put in months of planning for this. Also, they smartly kept the L.A. Coliseum vacant for this week in the event that something could happen, and that's exactly how it played out. That's an NFL rule. I mean, with all the London games, too,

that stadium has to be available if needed. And it came in handy here. You just think about, and these are such different events, but you just think about what an insane couple of weeks this is for the Rams organization. You know, more than 20 players were evacuated out of their house. They don't really have a home. A lot of the, and even more of the support staff,

you know, we know that the PR director was evacuated from two different places, his house than the next place he went to a hotel with their family. One of the reasons when they went to Colorado, this week, that was to prepare for the Mexico game at altitude. So the entire Rams organization is in Colorado this week, preparing at altitude, when now their game is actually in Los Angeles. And they took another plane of family members and support staff with them to Colorado

because so many of them are outside of their home. And it's not that, you know, there's a lot of people suffering because of these wildfires and everything in Los Angeles. but it's just like a wild like couple of strange weeks for an NFL team to go through. Or just not that they're not that their struggles are somehow comparable, but just it's a strange thing because there's nothing more logistically complicated than suddenly they're moving this home game to Los Angeles and it's just a, it's a cluster. Yeah, as you mentioned on our Twitter show yesterday,

this is the last thing the NFL wanted. Years go into planning something like this. It's the showcase game of the season. one of the best regular season games we've had in years. This is the last thing they wanted. And kudos to the NFL for putting player safety ahead of anything else. The one thing, I mean, to have this game at a neutral site gave it more of almost of a Super Bowl feel because you would have had a real mixed crowd.

And this completely changes that it's an obvious competitive advantage for the Rams to play back at home. I do like that the Rams are giving a major amount of tickets to first responders from all those five. and they're using the they're not using this as some sort of cash grab they're using it the right way good for them yeah i do uh and good for gregg who owes me a sandwich off of this let's talk about that let's talk about that um greg mark you said that your your prop paid off here i would what was your prop it was so this is from the preseason why don't we do someone have what the thing was weather is is listed right i'll do i'll do i'll do you one better i really do believe this is going to happen there's a lot of issues in the states um some of them are natural, some of them are man-made, we will find out. At least one NFL game will

be relocated to another city this season. This has happened before. One game. Okay, due to either inclement weather, and that doesn't mean a light shower, that means something large, a natural disaster type issue, also large, or massive civic unrest. Okay, so I got way too specific there, but I will say that this statement from NFL executive VP of International Affairs, Mark Waller, until very recently we had no major concerns, but the combination of a difficult rainy season and a heavy multi-event calendar of events at the stadium have resulted in significant damage to the field that presents unnecessary risk to player safety. Rain is a major reason this field got junked up the way it did. It is a major reason

and they had no concerns at all until a significant rainy season, a weather event altered the conditions of the field. I mean, but Shakira altered it more. You said this can't just be right. You literally said this can't just be like regular old rain. This needs to be a major weather event. And it wasn't really a major weather event. Well, let's just listen to the very beginning again.

Okay. I do believe this is going to happen. There's a lot of issues in the states. Some of them are natural. In the states. All right. Have your way. I don't care.

In the states. It's fine. I think you nailed it. You know, it's just like, it is not going to get past this crowd anyways. I don't care. I don't want to act like a small town sheriff about this. I think you nailed the spirit of it. I mean, it's, I'm fine.

Our sandwich props about the spirit or getting it right. I think he got it right. All right. I mean, I'm, I'm tempted. I'm leaning towards just letting Mark have the sandwich. Difficult rainy season. You know what? I'm just going to do a bunch of props from here on out about

guaranteed money. Player X will make more guaranteed money than some other. Here's the thing. You said it's going to be weather, natural disaster, massive unrest. There's no way that that's not why it's movie. It's because they didn't take care of the stadium at all. But it was mostly because Shakira and they... Combined with the...

They didn't say it's mostly because of Shakira. And they had a ton of soccer events and all this other stuff. And Mexico City is not in the United States. Well, that too. Those two things... I will not take the sandwich, but I find it absurd. But we don't really even... At this point, we haven't exchanged sandwiches.

It is highly absurd. Let's move on. Mark, maybe we could talk about this more. I would rather not. All right. The bills say goodbye to Torel Pryor. I think we're going to lose Mark for the rest of the episode now. You can have the sandwich.

I don't want it. Like, it makes no sense to take it at this point because it's just, it makes no sense. If we can have you back, we'll give you the same. I have, this is my job. I have to sit here as it is. You got the baker one. You got the baker one. You got this.

I am just going to essentially I'm going to mail in the sandwich props so hardcore from here on out. They're going to be so vague and so soft. You bend the language to whatever you want it to be. You'll win every prop. So congratulations. I have a new strategy now.

Let's move on. The Buffalo Bills on Tuesday waived wide receiver Torel Pryor after just two weeks with the team. Pryor is 29 now. This could be, we're getting near the end of the road now for this guy. Played two games for the bills after signing a one. your deal. I barely, I forgot he was on the team. The bills destroyed my team. And I didn't remember seeing him on the field in a game in which the bills went off on offense. So that tells

you a lot. And he played starter snaps. That's it. I mean, come on. I mean, it doesn't even make an impact. And here's the thing. I will say this about trial prior. And Mark, you saw it in Cleveland, the Redskins. He was never healthy. But he was able to gain some separation in his time with the Jets. He had some touchdowns at the Jets. He can play. So once again, There's something missing here. Why was he jettisoned almost immediately when the guy can play a little bit? Well, this is overdue, but we used to have a segment. I think Mark inspired where we would shoot news makers out of a cannon off the show permanently.

Is it time? This is enough for Terrell prior. Why are we still going over this? Goodbye, Terrell. But as a send-off to Terrell, I will say that, You know, I had the theory that he comes in and cleans up locker rooms. I did, because I was on... Bills are going to make the playoffs now.

This was on my radar. Well, what happened? Their last game before he got cut. They stomped on his former team. I got the locker room audio of the... Right after he was signed, what happened in the locker room. Let's listen to us. All right.

People who really want to have a good time won't come to a slaughterhouse. And we've got entirely too many troublemakers here. Too many, uh, 40-year-old adolescent. felons, power drinkers, and trustees of modern chemistry. It's going to change. Sounds like our London trip. So there he is. He cleans up another locker room.

I mean, he's put his fingerprints all over two of the worst teams in the AFC. I mean, he's job accomplished. I need to see Roadhouse. Oh, you have to see Roadhouse. I think you would appreciate it. I actually think you would. He came in there. He told the bills, get your act together after a 4110 team.

He's back on the road. He's in his Mercedes. He's driving to the next slaughterhouse. He galvanized the troops. Were they using him for Jets-specific information? Because that would explain a very surprising rump. That's potential. Although, judging off what we're hearing about Terrell Pryor,

was he paying attention when he was on the Jets? I don't know. Let's move on the Cleveland Browns are coming off their best win of the season. However, they're doing it with an interim coach, Greg Williams, and John Dorsey, the general manager. His job is to figure out who is the next guy. who is going to be in a full capacity, take this as you will, but he is keeping Greg Williams in mind, at least publicly.

He said, when asked if the list includes Greg Williams, Dorsey responded, I think he deserves that. And there's not too much to make of that, but it does get back to what a huge decision, Mark, this is, coming up for the Browns, but just don't hire Greg Williams. I mean, I'd be kind of shocked if the answer was anything. other than a very keep the piece. Yes, he'll get an interview because every interim coach, for the most part,

is thrown into the interview cycle. And then almost always quickly. Has there ever been an interim coach who didn't get an interview? Right, right. And I'm, listen, I don't think. I'm not sure Joe Vit has ever. Well, that was a different type. Joe Vit had a couple different interim jobs.

Dan Campbell did, I remember. Yeah, they did give him an interview. Campbell got pop. Greg Williams will never be the head coach of this team. But I do think that the one thing I've heard a few times is that their practices, when Hugh Jackson went to the senior bowl, and it was described as some of the worst practices the senior bowl's ever had. They were disorganized in a big mess, which was a red flag to me. They have talked about, and I don't even know, what does this even mean?

We don't even know on the outside, but their practices have been much more organized and much more focused, and the players have gotten more out of them. So it's just to go from here to the end of the year, I'd rather have that than what was going on before. Finally in the news, Joe Flacco has a hip injury that seems troublesome. It seems like something that could shelve the quarterback for an extended amount of time. He's not practicing to start the week. And it seems like a possibility that he's going to miss time, maybe extended time, this injury. Is it at the end of the Joe Flacko or in Baltimore?

We shall see Robert Griffin, the 3rd, who has really been off the radar in the NFL for a couple years now. there's a chance he even starts, Greg, in the next week or so. Or even on Sunday, is that in play? That is very much in play. And Lamar Jackson was, you know, when this story first popped up during the Ravens by week, the thought was immediately, okay, it's time to fly with Lamar Jackson. We're going to see what happens. But the athletic reported on Wednesday that the Ravens have been mentioning RG3 as a possible starter.

And so we don't know if they're just trying to keep it vague so that, you their opponents can't prepare. But when this Flacco story first popped up, I got to admit, my antenna was up. It just seemed a little, it seemed a little strange and convenient that suddenly Flacco has this injury that came out of nowhere right during the biweek.

I don't know. It just, something's going on. First of all, what's going on is he's injured. And their coach says, if he can play, he's going to be out there. Normally if you're, normally if you're just trying to push him away, you're not going to say yes. If he's capable of playing in any way,

but is it something that he's been playing through and they're just like, look, Joe, you need to get this, you need to get this ready. You need to get this right before you play again because you're playing through it and it's not helping us. And in mind, hey, right, and in their mind it's like,

hey, we have our biweek. We're at four and five. This is our last stand. You know, maybe it's just the right time. Anything to get RG3 in there. Well, here's my other thing. I thought you were going in a different direction. Okay.

My antenna raised a little bit because I was like, why wouldn't the obvious move be to put in the number one pick? I'm with you. Does that mean they're a little worried about his progress? Same reason at the end of the preseason when they came out publicly and said, if something happens to Flacco, it will be RG3 under center, not Lamar Jackson. Well, I don't necessarily buy that RG3 would be the starter Sunday. First of all, I would kind of expect they would both be out there if RG3 played. And we don't know right now.

It's competing reporting. I would just say you have rookie quarterbacks playing all over the league. That's what, why not put Lamar Jackson in there here in late November and give him a shot? He's had plenty of weeks of practice and preparation. They're trying for a playoff run. If he's not ready to run the offense, which is a lot different than taking a trick play every. So I'd say, yeah, I would say his last time we saw RG3 play a major role in a team, he was nothing special. It's not like they have something.

Last time we saw both of these quarterbacks play in the preseason, RG3 was much better than Lamar Jackson, who didn't look like he could run the Ravens offense. It's fascinating. Preseason, though. Right. I mean, you either can run the offense or you can't. Well, it's also been two months, so we don't know what's different. It is a fascinating moment, though, for John Harbaugh and just this Raven staff. Because you really do feel like if they don't make the playoffs, he's probably gone.

And he's keeping a good attitude. He did the whole, like, Animal House, you know, was it over when Germans bombed Pearl Harbor bit at his press conference? Uncle John. Press conference this week. and, you know, so he's keeping a light tone, but it's big, it's tense times. Mike Francesti used to call that, whistling past the graveyard.

Believe that was a song. Screaming Jay Hawkins. Maybe it's just the Patriots fan in me, but there is something about the Ravens that I sort of expect they will find a way that it's not over for them. They have that in them. They're going to be in the mix in week 17 or maybe. It'll be over soon enough.

Are they one of the teams on? I mean, we have this conversation about the Ravens every year. If I had to pick who gets that sixth seat, I think it's either it's one of those AFC South teams or it's the Ravens. Those are the favorites. If, Wes, if what you're saying, which makes sense and you're basing it on when we saw these guys in action, that RG3 is the better option, that makes sense.

But if you're John Harbone, you kind of need a Hail Mary to save your job a little bit. Is RG3 the best? Better solution, or do you throw this kid that's a fantastic talent in the fire and see if he gets hot? I don't have enough information to say if that makes sense. But just logically, it would feel like for a team that's fading, inject some energy in youth and see if something crazy. Who would scare you more if you were an opposing defense having to prepare? I think R.G3. Well, then they are.

I just think there's a difference between running trick plays and running an offense. And I don't know which one of these guys is more ready. but what the Ravens, everything the Ravens have given us suggests to me that RG3 would be the guy. That's what's happening in the news. Okay, before we get to the TNF preview, this is something that came up. We were watching Sunday Night Football just to pull back the curtain. We record the bulk of our Sunday night show leading as the Sunday night game kicks off. We usually finish the hour-long taping around halftime, and then we stay in the studio together,

and we watched the rest of Sunday night football, and we use that time not only to watch the games and converse and Greg to four guys hanging out. Spending some time. That's what you like. We don't need trivia. Yeah, you don't need that. Trivia is trivial, is what you're saying.

We also sometimes will talk about plans for the show, and Mark was getting fired up about the Packers, I believe. What was the game we were watching? I'm trying to remember the context of how we got into it. What was the Sunday? We were watching the Eagles, Cowboys. Eagles, Cowboys, okay. But anyway, the Packers came up or the Rams came up,

and there's certain teams that really, Mark hates. They're on his radar. And that's what we're going to talk about. These are teams that are in the mix, that are getting coverage, that are in the playoff fight. But Mark don't like them. So let's get going, Mark. What do you got?

The Packers are the obvious starting point because I feel like the three of you adore the Packers, and you have your own reasons, and we can next time do the segment on why you love this team so much. I think it's the same segment. I think you say why it's probably happening in this segment. I just, it's this year especially. I don't understand why Packers teams, no matter what happens to them, they are viewed as like just send the train

ticket straight to the NFC title game. Well, I'm not buying it this year. You're four, four and one. You're one three and one against winning teams. You can't win on the road. And everyone's just waiting for Aaron Rogers to save the day with a bunch of half milk toast parts around them. I'm not buying it. The Packers, to me, do this every year. You have not won a Super Bowl since 2010. And I do not need to be part of this fantasy that just assumes they're going to topple all these better teams in the NFC. But you don't like them when they're good, too. Whether they're good or bad, you don't like them. I also think that it's a fan base that's had excellent quarterback play for three

plus decades. That's right. And it's, I don't know. There's something about the whole thing. But I think I figure out what this segment is. We let Mark explain why he's angry about the team. Then we step in and we try to diagnose what really is the root cause of this. And I think you're hitting at it here. The back-to-back five Rogers thing has always annoyed. Stuck in your crawl. It's just the whole experience.

Like I love Aaron Rogers. I use a great player. It's not. There's nothing about. But you don't. There's nothing about it. I'm not critiquing his play. It's just this is just this.

Have you ever like when you were. in school, and every guy in class like the same girl, and you're just like, no, I'm not buying this one. Like, I do not need to be a huge Aaron Rogers fan the way that other people are. I just don't find this team. I don't need this team on prime time as much as they are.

I am an outlier here. They annoy me for some reason, and I am trying to self-diagnose it half the time myself. I just don't buy the straw man NFC title game argument. Like, are we not supposed to cover any team unless they can make a title game? we've seen with this team whenever Aaron Rogers is healthy

they go to the playoffs whether it's relax or run the table and this team is no worse than those teams I think they're going to relax all their way to 8, 7 and 1 here's the other thing they lose in the playoffs when they should and also they go in with these stacked teams

I think this started for me when they had that 15 and 1 campaign and got taken out by the Giants go handle your business so do the Patriots that year right it happened they've had an enormous amount Patriots are not

Patriots don't stumble in big spots in general They've had an inordinate amount of bad playoff losses. But in their best seasons where they finished off the best, they look terrible around week 10. So I don't know if we can tell anything right now. There is an argument to be made. And I don't even think of the Packers as like one of my five favorite teams, if I'm making a list.

It's just that like Aaron Rogers is maybe the best player I've ever seen and maybe it's up there with the most fun players I've ever got to watch. So I like to watch them. The most captivating. Right. So I like them. And so, yeah, I do root for him a little bit. You know how you always said, West, you needed your women to have faults and flaws?

He's too perfect for me. Like, I'd rather see him go through some stuff. And it's just like, I don't know. But he has. He's went through a lot. He's gone through a lot. There's an argument, though. Don't cry for me, Argentina.

It's not been through that much. Give me a breaks. Fine. I was thinking while the Packers were struggling with the Dolphins for a little bit watching that game, there is an argument to be made that non-packers fans, that are Rogers fans, which I would consider, you know, me, Dan and Wes, that we just like watching play. There's an argument to be made.

You should almost root against them this year to finally get the stink of McCarthy off because I'm just, I've been saying this for a few years. I want to see them with another coach and only missing the playoffs might accomplish. They went halfway with Dom Capers. My final thought is that if I had to make a list of the top 10, top 20 games in the last decade,

whether it was a winner or loss for the Packers, they're probably on that list more than any other team. Yes. I'm not saying this is logical on my part. All right, who else you got? Oh, the Rams. Okay. Oh, my God.

Look, are they good? Yes, they are good. They're great. They're going to go right to the Super Bowl. But for me, it reminds me of when I was young, and you live on the East Coast, and the only game you get at the 4 p.m. slot was the Joe Montana or Steve Young-Niner's beating teams up 45 to 20 every week.

And so the Rams are now the same thing. Every single week, Todd Gurley, 150 yards, and two touchdowns. Oh, Jared Goff, you threw for three touchdowns and zero interceptions again. You win 12 games, 38 to 24. I mean, I'm telling you something, are they good, are they a quality team? Yes. But, of course, here, because we live in L.A. And an NFL network is super cozyed up to the Rams.

We're going to be working inside their building in a couple years. We have to sit here and lavish them with nonstop attention and love. And I like going to their games, too, and all this stuff. But how about go through some adversity before I buy a second of this? I want to see a team go through some ups and downs, and every Rams game is the same. I've covered like 12 of them for the site. Counterpoint. First counterpoint.

The last six Rams games, 38, 31, 33, 31, 23, 21, 23, 2320, 39, 10, 29, 27, 45-35 loss that was tied 35-35 in the fourth quarter, and 3631 win. Right. Let me ask you. The national narrative is actually the opposite of them. It's like, why can't the Rams win by more than one score is what most people are asking? How many Rams games have you sat there and you're shivering thinking they're going to lose? They, if anything, could pour on another 10 or 14 points in those of these games. That's a fair point.

There's one game like that, which was the Broncos. They could have lost either of the Seahawks games. They could have lost the Packers. They happened to win them. The Vikings game we went to is a good example. The Vikings hung around. There was not a single second that night when I thought, uh-oh, Minnesota is going to win this. thing. Not at all. It's like their defense has some issues, like a ton of defenses in the NFL.

The Rams are constantly up here, and then they're giving up a little bit here, a little bit less, and they win these games by, they look closer than they are, these scores. I don't buy that at all. They've all been down to the last possession. I agree with some of what you're saying. And I remember growing up having the same feeling about those Juggernaut 49ers teams, it got boring after a while. But nobody in this podcast studio is cozying up to the Rams just because they're in LA. Right. It's because he took over Jeff Fisher, the worst offense in NFL history, according to football outsiders, and then had the best one in one year. And he's doing things that we haven't quite seen, Sean McVeigh, that is.

And it's exciting to watch, like, a team do it in a different way for a team to turn Robert Woods into an afterthought into one of the best receivers. They play an entertaining brand of football. Why not like that? I get annoyed when teams are good for too long, the Patriots, the most obvious example, the Warriors and the NBA and other. example. Maybe the Rams. They've literally won no playoff games with this. Maybe the Rams become that team down the line in a couple years. But I see where you're coming from, Mark. I just don't know if they're there yet

where you can kind of hate on them for being too good because they really haven't accomplished anything. I want to die can I? I was going to say, Dr. Rosellis. That actually has a ring to it. Oh, yeah. I feel like there's probably a few Dr. Rosenthal's out there. Yeah. My uncle, he's Dr. Milner, but

you know, he's a psychotherapist. So I think a lot of it stems from the NFL network's impending move down to Inglewood. And even some of the relationship between the network and when the Rams first moved here, that really bore out on NFL network where we covered it quite a bit because it's in our backyard and it's a big deal for the NFL. And there's something about that that really grinds. It does.

And again, that's it. That is absolutely it. And there's something else happening. I can walk to NFL network in eight minutes from my house. And now it's like I have to uproot the entire family or like I don't even own a car right now. I had to go buy a car now. I had to go buy a car and drive 28 minutes through ridiculous L.A. traffic to some gigantic hulking. It's like 20 minutes, right?

That's that's the buy car and that is 12 minutes more than it's taking me to get here. leisurely walk. You can put a book bag on and take a bird? It's just a development I did not need. All right. That was diagnosed well. Nicely done, Dr. Rosenthal. All right.

I wish we got straight to that, but now we know the answer. That's not how psychotherapy takes time. Do you have another one? The last one is the panther. And the Panthers, to me, all right, look, they represent a bunch of teams. And this is when Greg and I get into it too often, I know. But the Panthers, to me, were totally and utterly exposed.

last Thursday night. And here it is, this team that we bandy about is a Super Bowl spoiler. It's just a slow, steady march to failure. We're going to sit here and deal with them for the next six weeks. They're going to go on the road in the playoffs and get totally whacked. I guarantee it. I guarantee they will not achieve anything beyond a playoff loss. And we're just sitting here and waiting for it to happen.

It's another 60 days of dealing with this team. There's a bunch of teams like this, and it gets me. highly annoyed. Do we want to go straight to the diagnosis? Yeah, let's hear the diagnosis from Dr. R. All right. When the Steelers especially are playing in a big primetime game, you could maybe throw the Ravens,

but especially the Steelers in a big primetime game, Mark wants that opponent to show up. He thinks he's seen it too many times over the years, the same story as the season moves along, that the Steelers end up starting rolling and it's another AFC North nightmare. And so when the Panthers showed up on Thursday night and didn't really show up, that hurt you.

And now they got thrown into this bin. The other thing was that I had to sit in this office and watch that half of it because we had to come up here for 98 seconds to recap the game, which I could do from my house on the phone if I wanted to. Just imagine doing it next year from Inglewood. You're going to have to drive it for that.

See, I was part of it. I was part of this. So you, why weren't you able to watch it at the house? There was something going on at the house, wasn't there? It's Thursday. Yeah, it's like it's not easy to. It's fun to watch games if I don't have to, if I can kind of like let them go with my kids. I'm really starting to enjoy that actually.

But that night, we got to focus and take notes and stuff. It's like I got to clear out. It's the sun's down. You already put in a day of work. You're in the office. And now you're sitting at your cubicle alone while everyone else in your mind. You're thinking, this is my Friday night because that's, That's the way our schedule breaks.

Eric is up in West Hollywood, like on her fourth martini, and I'm sitting here watching the Panthers not show up on Thursday Night Football. And you're sitting in your cubicle and you're watching this game slip away. You just want a good game. It's just a waste of time for me. You're mad that your Friday night essentially is being impacted. That may be true. Wait, so I wanted to be clear.

In the parlance of our social media times, the Steelers have been sunning the Browns and Bengals for 45 freaking years. And you want somebody to knock them off. So to be clear, though, you said you guarantee, because the Panthers fans are a vindictive bunch, and you guaranteed a play, it only is ending in a playoff last. Did you mean like they won't even win a playoff game? It's an immediate playoff loss.

What I'm guaranteeing is that they are, they're going to hit January and be an ultra non-factor. When we look back on what ultimately happened in the playoffs, the Panthers are. Like last season. where they went out in the first round. Not meekly, but they're better than last year. I don't know.

I think they have a shot. I think there's better teams in the NFC than last year. I think they have a shot to make some noise. But they might get buys those better teams, and then the Panthers could win a game, and then who knows what can, I don't know, okay. I don't know. I mean, I get your point.

I don't know if I'm really allowed to say this, but I am with most of the players and saying I do not like Thursday night football. I especially don't like when there's really good games. Like, that should have been a good game. And Mark, you've made a point. of it on Thursday, that probably would have been a great game. The last week's game, what was the Panthers and Steelers?

Steelers. Would have been a great game on Sunday at 425 on CBS or Fox. Instead, sometimes these teams don't show up, especially the road teams. And that's why I don't even put a ton of stock into that game. Like, I don't think they were exposed. I think they got the ball started rolling on them and it turned into a snowball. And I just say, screw it, that game's gone. And I bet they make a deep run of the ball.

I like this team a lot. I think, like, the Thursday night thing had a huge impact. I don't think that result ever would have occurred on Sunday at 1 o'clock in Pittsburgh. But they were exposed, though. I don't just give them a free pass. That's two football teams that played each other, and they were exposed. Steelers have housed their last five opponents. It hasn't always showed up on the scoreboard,

but they've been the best team in football the last five weeks. They've been as good as the Chiefs in the rain. I really believe that. Saints. Just for five weeks. Saints are in a league's right now. It's tough to. But I'm saying the Steelers to me just for that five-week stretch are in that league.

You play five straight opponents and you physically dominate all five of them. That's hard to do. Let's see how Carolina does against New Orleans. Steelers are playing with three downs. Saints are playing with four. You good, Mark? I actually feel a lot better. All right, good.

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It's possible this highly exclusive club is just right for you. All right, let's get to the TNF preview. Yeah, like you can't find any tennis courts. We need that long-of-way to Ricky Hollywood versus Dr. Rosenthal match. Oh, I know. Maybe down to the LATC. I mean, there's like 50 free tennis courts everywhere you look. Yeah, but this is a community, Greg.

Please. The Green Bay Packers, who we just spoke about, and a lot of pressure on the Packers to prove Mark wrong. 4-4-1 spanked the dolphins last week, but here's a challenge. They're going to Seattle to face the Seahawks. Seahawks who are playing for their season right now, Let's just keep it real.

They've lost two in a row. They're four and five in a loaded NFC. Four and six means goodbye. They are playing for the season. This is a team that Greg has said repeatedly. He views as a playoff team and they can run on anyone. You saw they ran for almost 300 yards and a loss to the Rams. I think they're going to run on the Packers.

The question is can the Packers keep up with them? I think they can because the Packers play a style where, they lean on their quarterback, and the Seahawks play a style where they're trying to hide their great quarterback, where Russell Wilson is such a secondary player in this offense. I think they've gone too far. They're too in love with the fact they've run for 150 yards, six straight games, which is wild. Like the Seahawks are basically the best running team in football right now, even when Chris Carson was out, I mean, just by the numbers. But I don't think, I think over time, and you saw it, I think, in last week's game, and I know they ended up keeping it close with the Rams.

Russell Wilson had about 59 yards passing going into the fourth quarter. I just think that makes your margin for error on third downs very tough. It's a tough place to play, but I would rather have the team where you're relying on your quarterback, and I think the Seahawks are a little too in love with this run-run pass when their defense is just, okay, it's good, it's not great. It's a fine defense. I like it if it operates the way the Cowboys did. in years past where you're taking Green Bay off the field by controlling 35 plus minutes of the game.

I don't see Seattle doing that effectively week after week. They are running well, but it's like you're not going to just be able to play keep away from the Packers. One of the reasons the Chargers won is because they started selling out. They paid no respect to the receivers whatsoever after the first quarter and just sold out knowing it was going to be run the whole game. I think you have to mix it up just for predictability. see last week i thought the packers maybe it was just because they were ahead but they hit on an offense that makes sense to me erin jones getting 75% of the snaps devante adams getting quite a bit of targets focus on your best players keep jones on the field i mean that guy he kind

of defines shot out of a cannon they we hear you hear shot out of a cannon a lot when i hear shot out of a cannon right now i think erin jones well down to that ball when he come out of the cannon though yeah helps it he's facing lighter boxes than any running back in the league oh Oh, what's that? It's earlier than I meant, but I'm going to lock it up for the Packers. Wow. Another road team for Greg. I like it.

You need this. It's a loser goes home match for Greg. I went home. So I'm going to go. I'm home and I'm rooting. I found out that I win a sandwich if anyone but Mark wins. So now I'm just rooting for Wes or Dan, I guess, if Dan gets in the mix. I am in the mix.

I'm two games out. I'm all right. Dan's in it. Well, too, yeah. I have the same record as Dan, so by technicality alone, I'm also in it. Yeah, everyone's in the mix. Everyone's in the mix but me.

Who just made that pick from his home. This feels like a juicy spot for a lockoff, but I'm not sure I can. It is. It is very tempting. Is this a Jimmy Graham revenge game? There's no logic to it. There's no logic.

The Packers are banged up. It's a short week. They're missing two of the players in their secondary aren't traveling for this game. Nick Perry is not traveling for this game. why because he's struggling because Reggie Gilbert is a much better player than Nick Perry at this point in their careers

but I just I just have I just do believe that the Packers it's just a gut feeling that they are going to start figuring it out on the road in prime time I don't think that's it I mean it's also a must win game for them

you can't go four five and one in the NFC right now they would have probably one loss to play with but I don't think you I don't say they're definitely dead at four or five and one Not definitely dead, but it's like, what are you selling us at that point? We've already been down this road. You're four, five, and one, what are you selling us?

Yeah, you could be two and a half back if the Vikings win that Sunday night. You've got to win out, essentially. That's a pretty big deficit. Wes, Jimmy Graham, I may not win the sandwich prop that we have because I think I set the yardage too low, but I stand by the fact that he's just not the same place. Well, you said it would be he has to go under 700. You got a shot at that. His pace is a little over 700.

It's about 800 right now. But I just don't think he's the same guy anymore. Greg nailed this one throughout the offseason. Aaron Rogers is giving him so many chances to make plays, and he hasn't made the plays. Yeah. One last thing I wanted to mention of the Seac, just because sometimes you get really good players

and then you just assume they're good, and then they don't get mentioned for a while. Like Bobby Wagner is playing as well as Bobby Wagner has ever played. I think he's the best middle linebacker in football. If you had to pick one, he would be the one I would pick. And he's the number one reason why their defense has not fallen off too badly. Everybody wants to stake their claim to Bobby Wagner or Luke Keakley and then change their mind the next week.

That's fine. I mean, they're both up there. That's true, I guess. Whatever, they're both unbelievable. But Wagner's been under the radar. Bobby Wagner just never misses a tackle. All right, there you go. Let's pick this game.

So Greg obviously has the Packers. Packers. My NFC Super Bowl team. Better win. I'm so tempted to lock this up, but I just, I don't know. It feels too. Do it. No, it feels too emotion-based.

And I always get whacked on those. I'm going to pick Seattle, though, to win. in 2320. Packers. America needs it. Score. 3126. I had 3027 for the Packers' late field goal with the dub.

All right. Before we go, real quick. Let's send out a mailbag prompt. Let's have some fun. In fact, let's use a little 8 o'clock delight to keep moving along. Holy God. Is Mike McCarthy out if the Packers missed the playoffs? Marcus Dilley asks.

Yes. Yeah. He's gone. Yes. Greg will make sure of it. I tried last year. They should have listened. Eleanor Weston Selvin asked, why did you fork the fork?

It was honestly my favorite segment. I love the fork. It doesn't have to be out. We haven't ruled that officially yet. It died of natural death. The better forks are kind of starting around this time of year. So we could still, we could still do the team. I want to bring back not only the fork, but Dan's funeral dirges.

That's true. Jasper Wahlberg has to ask or chooses to ask. Aaron Rogers plays his career under Belichick. How many Super Bowls do they win more or less than Brady Belichick? All of them. Less. Exactly the same amount. What is that?

Four, five? I don't even like this question. Tom Marshall asking for a friend who's a Jets fan, are we seeing evidence of Tom Brady in decline, Wes? Yes. I actually think it's inarguable. I'm not saying this is the end. I'm not saying he's a liability.

I'm not saying he's passed to, you know, he is he's just declined he's he's not the best quarterback in football anymore and I think you see it in his mobility his arm strength his unwillingness to take a hit he's he's had his worst stretch since 2015 but you know then he bounced back he's made a career out of slaying dragons and it wouldn't surprise me to see him slay another one mark rich asks if we don't really die at the end then what well I've thought that question my whole life I think you probably move on to like it's a computer sim or something and you wake up to like everyone that you were in life with you're in some room and everyone's kind of shaking hands

Christopher for the theology I don't have an answer to that one sounds nice I like sing for the day who delivered some amazing Baco shop yesterday thanks Chris best Thanksgiving side dish I like mashed potatoes man I love pasta stuffing pizza he says you got to get rid of that how about Chardonnay are you a communist no you just got to get rid of the turkey and have a real dinner Stuffing. Something solid. I go with mashed potatoes as well.

I mean, you can put some spices. It's up to the person cooking the turkey. If you just want to go boring, throw it in the oven. Yeah, it's going to be boring. What do you think, Erica? Spice it up. Definitely mashed potatoes. Oh, bang.

Greg, from Chad Wicked, is Matt Stafford good? Candy yams are underrated. Ooh, this is good. Yes, Matthew Stafford is good. I define good as better than average. He's a better than average starting quarterback. I agree with Greg. He's probably about in that 12.

12 to 15 range. Mark, Corey Derman asks, is Nathan Peterman actually the worst quarterback of all time? No. All time. No. No. He's in the conversation, but no. Recency bias.

West, if we don't really die at the end, then what? Man, I've struggled with that one. I have really struggled with that one. All right. It's okay not to know the answer. Save it for the theology podcast. We'll be back on what is today? What's happening?

It's Wednesday today. So we're doing another show tomorrow? Yeah, tomorrow's like the point of... I mean, can we get one week where we can stop talking endlessly about our... It has taken me 39 years, but I'm finally sick of hearing myself talk. It's over. Hey, one thing, the 2019 Pro Bowl vote is here. Which NFL players do you want to see at the 2019 Pro Bowl in lovely Orlando?

Vote today at NFL.com slash Pro Bowl vote. And yes, check us out Thursday night. That's when the show goes live late Thursday, early Friday. You'll have a recap of Packer Seahawks and then previewing all the week 11 matchups to come. Fun football stuff. Let's go. Seahawks punter Michael Dixon,

that's who I want to see in the Proble. Yeah. I like it. Dan Hansa signing off for Fix it pop. Quiet storm. Hell man. The old boss

in Ricky Hollywood behind the glass. Ricky Hollywood behind the glass till Thursday. I'm Marcus Grant, and I'm Michael Flawio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

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