NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Look Away! Freaks of the 2023 NFL Draft (with Ben Solak)

Episode Date: April 19, 2023

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler, and Gregg Rosenthal recap all the latest news from around the league, starting with the report that several teams have called the 49ers to inquire about Trey Lance's availability (5:25). Allen Robinson was traded to the Steelers (14:53), and Damar Hamlin returned to practice (19:37). Then, The Ringer's Benjamin Solak joins the show (21:38) to discuss the biggest athletic freaks in the 2023 NFL Draft, including Florida QB Anthony Richardson (26:27), Georgia TE Darnell Washington (31:51), Georgia defenders Nolan Smith and Jalen Carter (34:03), Kansas State RB Deuce Vaughn (37:57), and smaller wide receivers Zay Flowers and Josh Downs (41:46). Stay tuned to the end of the show for a BIG draft announcement (48:41). Note: timecodes approximate.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast was not the oldest person at Coachella. Bondi was there too. Thank you very much. From the Chris Wesleyan podcast studio. It's Around the NFL. I'm Dan Hansis, Greg Rosenthal,

Mark Sessler here. And yes, the time has come. I liken this to the particularly high profile Aaron Rogers' appearances on the Pat McAfee show when suddenly you're hosting a much larger audience than typical. So we welcome music fans right now. And the time has come now for Mark Sessler's review of Frank Ocean's controversial weekend closing set at Coachella. Greg, I think the right move here is for us to just kind of get out of the way and let Mark monologue this and take us through boots on the ground.

Mark, there's a huge global audience here right now. Pins and needles for days. They waited on Monday. We're surprised and disappointed. Now they're back. The floor is yours. I could give you a more comprehensive review of snail mail, which was occurring during the daytime.

I had a very atypical strange weekend. It was wonderful, but I didn't stay for the latest stuff night after night. Wait, but we've planned out. The numbers are just like 20 more minutes of your monologue is on schedule. The way to actually set up a segment like this would be to check with me on what I actually witnessed and saw with my own eyes. Well, certainly you listened on Monday, and he really built this up. I thought Bad Bunny was amazing. Did you see any of that?

He brought out Post Malone, and there was a massive technical glitch that caused problems among the people there live. It was, I don't know if you've been, but it was fun. I've never been. It was a, like, one of my main goals was to avoid, like, a Danish. dangerous sunburn, which I partially did, I believe. Congrats. And I'm a big snail mail fan, so I like the shout-out. I've seen them.

She was great. A few times left. So for the Frank Ocean audience. Yeah. We just don't have anything. I think it's, isn't it like sort of on brand that I would go to this and not come back with like the, you and I might have different goals when we'd go there? And I maybe missed some of the things that would have been high on your list.

So did you go? It was late night. You were saying that they went to one of the. in the morning every night. You didn't stay till one in the morning every times. It's been a lot of reporting since then. There were supposed to be an ice skating rink, all these people that they had hired.

Didn't see an ice skating. Right, no. Frank Ocean suffered an ankle injury on a bike on the Coachella grounds. Did you catch that or any of that? No, so what I did was like went around like 10, 11 in the morning because it is so crowded. If you go during the day, everything is wide open. And so I'd do more like 10 to 8, 8 or 9.

And then went back and watched some of the later stuff on a, live YouTube feed. Would you go back? Absolutely. Because I think next time I know how to attack it completely differently. I was a, you know, a total newbie early. What are your feelings on the youth of America?

Is the future bright? I think it's fantastically bright. People were great. I was not the oldest person, by the way. There are definitely other people floating around of my age set. But, you know, I would say there's, it would be unquestionably in the older rung of ages.

all right Justin did you have anything before we move on oh shoot you caught me off guard no I hope Mark had a great time I mean who is this even talking I don't even know

Mark did you have fun that's all that really can't I had a wonderful time I'm sorry I cannot give you a completest review on each of the acts you know you're no no sweat no I mean I floated we built it up we got the audience

yeah and they learned a hard lesson here. I think they did. So did I. Next time I'm going to be more cautious on my return. Coming up today on around the NFL. Oh, my God. Jesus, take the wheel.

Take us to draft night. We're not there yet. We got more. We got more draft talk coming up. But we're lucky to have someone that's excellent in this realm. And really, the NFL overall in terms of coverage, Ben Solac from the ringer. we're going to have him on to talk about some of the kind of outliers and some of the oddities of the 2023 NFL draft.

It's kind of a weird draft, especially in like the measurables department. I think he also explains it really what he means by that and what it means for the future of the draft too is intriguing. These are human beings. So we're going to change the, you know, we're not going to call it the freaks of the draft. but it's kind of like, you know, who's a little different. I kind of like that headline. Okay, I like that. That's a pretty good sort of what they are.

Specimens. Let's go. Let's go, yeah, guys who stand out a little bit. Maybe we haven't hit us hard. Oh, about physical specimens. Yeah. You want just freaks. That sounds like it's something I attest to.

The freak show, that is the 2023 NFL draft. Look away. Freaks. This is a showman right here. Look away, slammer. Freaks of the 23 NFL draft. Not bad. I think it's, you've got something to sing.

with their they're hideous colon all right before that let's hit some news purdy back time pumps now going to throw for the end zone wide open glared at iute touchdown san francisco

iu iute iuke is on fire yeah so is brock purdy Oh. Monsters, comma, all of them, colon, breaking down the 2023 NFL draft. You're a storehouse of concepts. Brock Purdy, he took the league by storm late in the most recent NFL season. Mr. Irrelevant, as he's known, the final pick in the draft, stepped in a quarterback for the Niners after injuries to Tray Lance and Jimmy Garabolo and Thrive.

And although he suffered a serious elbow injury in the NFC playoffs, the Niners are very high on Purdy and see him as the future of the position, which takes us to a report from NFL networks, Ian Rappaport. On Wednesday, he said that the Niners have fielded calls from teams interested in trading for Tray Lance. Rappaport added the Niners have not actually picked up the phone themselves to dial up any teams, but they have answered the phone when teams have inquired about his availability.

Ian added no trade is imminent but you know those things can change quickly and they want to make sure Purdy's rehab is going well but there's interest in Lance from other teams. Mark you're back so I'll tee you up I know you are a big Purdy guy

Big 49ers guy sneaky big 49ers guy and Trey Lance was once the future they traded up a huge amount of capital to get him and this is the first kind of open sign that they might be looking to kind of cut ties and move on. I wouldn't be surprised if something like this happened.

I think the big problem PR-wise for a rather Teflon, John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan, I mean, extremely, like they haven't really needed Trey Lance over these past couple years. They've still gotten deep into the playoffs is after you gave up so much on a quarterback that is essentially barely been able to be on the field, it looks like today as a,

big of a quarterback whiff as you could find, and somehow that stink doesn't really stick to Kyle Shanahan and company. What do you get back for him? Because it's like there's no way for them to win that battle. And it's like, yes, you're also at that point gauging and hoping that the small sample size you got from Brock Purdy is who he really is, because just the league is going to catch up. And it makes me think of our friend Chris Wrestling when we got that six game sample size from Jimmy G after they traded for Jimmy G a couple years ago. And he looked at like the second coming of Joe Montana, and then we got the real version of him, which was much more variable.

Do you do all this and do you go into next season after quarterback depth has been their issue year after year? Do you possibly move on Trey Lance and then go into next season with that quarterback position being like Brock Purdy or bust? It's Purdy. And then right now, Sam, Donald, Greg, let me tee you up just by reminding people what they gave up to get Trey Lance. They traded with the Dolphins right before the 2021 draft.

They got the number three pick. change for the number 12 pick that year, the first and third round pick in 2022, and a first round pick this year. So they paid dearly to get this guy. Right. It was essentially a similar trade to what the Panthers just gave up to go at number one overall. That's what it costs. Two extra first and then the extra pick.

And you still gave up, you know, the trade down in that draft. And we haven't seen him play. He's had 132 snaps dropping back to pass in the NFL. and half of them were in a monsoon. And so people like to throw out Lance's numbers. And that game, I watched that game. It was just... Forget about it.

It was a preposterous game. And the other times, though, he hasn't looked totally ready to go in terms of his little regular season action, made a couple nice plays, his preseason action. You know, he's looked like a guy who needed development, which isn't surprising for a guy who didn't play that much in college and played at North Dakota State. I think you don't worry about what you get back if it's, like, reasonable. I mean, the Lions just traded Jeff Okuda, who was the number three overall picking the draft. What, just one draft after Lance or one draft before him, like the exact same, you know, level.

And they got a fifth round pickback and you move on. If they could get like a second for Trey Lance, I think they would take it. And I think the fact that Ian is reporting this and the way you framed it, Dan, I think was smart. The way Ian reported this makes you think like this is very much like the 49ers a year ago putting out, similar reports that they're getting offers about Jimmy G. Now, maybe history is instructive there. Nothing ever happened. But it really feels like it's the 49ers who are putting up a little bit of a for sale sign here on Trey Lans,

which would tend to make you think it spells the end of him. This is fantasy. It's Fugasey. But there is like logic to that 2021 NFL draft, which started with Trevor Lawrence and moved to Zach Wilson, then to Tray Lance top three. Mack Jones taken seven or eight picks after that. God, Tray Lance for Mac Jones? Does that make some sense?

Trey Lance for Zach Wilson? I don't know. Field set, wait, was Fields. Oh, Fields was in there too. And then Mac Jones at 15. Right. So, I mean, that was a, when you look at that, obviously Lawrence is a hit.

Zach Wilson is a bust right now. Trey Lance is, you know, trending toward bus, but he still hasn't played enough. Justin Fields, the bears think that's a big hit. And Mack Jones is this big question mark. I just wonder what Trey Lance's market is because the things he has working for him that, for instance, the Jets don't have with Zach Wilson, who I'm sure they would like to trade if they could, is Zach Wilson played a fair amount and not only show that he was injury

prone, he showed that he wasn't playing at a high level and then handled some things poorly with the media. Lance is still kind of a mystery on some level. I mean, I think also the Mac Jones thing is interesting is obviously there's some connective tissue to Kyle Shanhan. I don't know how Zach Wilson would ever be involved in a trade for Trey Lance. I think you can still look at Trey Lance and say untapped potential. There's a lot.

Teams think they probably could do with them. There are tools there. He just had extremely light college experience and has extremely late NFL experience. So it's an unknown. A team that stands out, though, to me a little bit because it keep feel like we are hearing that the Texans are not interested in maybe taking a quarterback at number two. You've got D'Amico Ryans, who knows Trey Lance. You've got Bobby Sloick, their new offensive coordinator,

who was the passing game coordinator under Shanahan and worked closely with Lance. They'd at least know what they think they're dealing with, and you could get them for cheap and then use those first-round picks to make your team better. That could make some sense? Like the Titans could make some sense. I mean, I don't doubt in any way Ian's reporting. So he's saying that they're fielding calls. And he's clear to point out they're not making them.

Now, if you're Trey Lance reading this reporting, I don't know if you are that invested in the parenthetical that they're not making them. I think you see these reports and you're not too excited about it if you're Trey Lance. But I don't doubt that teams are making those calls. And I'm sure those calls are like, how low is this price, essentially? Because I'm sure a team like the Titans would take on Trey Lance if the price was like a compensatory third round pick. I doubt it's that low. and it's figuring out during the draft, how low will the 49ers go?

Like the Lions, for instance, again, with the number three pick, I know it was a cornerback and his one year old, they basically were just ready to give away Jeff Okuda no matter what. They had decided that. Alan Robinson, who we'll talk about later,

the Rams were going to give them away no matter what. I don't think the 49ers are at that point. I think they're closer to where they were with Jimmy G a year ago, which is if they don't get the right price, and I'm just going to guess a two sounds about right for them, then maybe they just hold on to him one more year and see what happens as a backup

because it's too late. His peak value's gone. It reminds me a little of another Trey with the Hawks. Trey Young right now. It's like the value, it's too late for it to trade. Different sport. Different sport.

I know it's, you know, it's not the same as the NFL, but in some ways it's similar. Football is completely different than basketball. In that case, it may not be. Maybe, maybe not. It really makes those, like if you were betting. Trey cool of Green Day. You know, his value was higher,

maybe in 2004. Now, what are you going to get? I've just said that if you had like best of all the possible mark drops that things he said, it's kind of bizarre. That's the one that's been hammered the most on this podcast. It's got legs. Legs for days. Last thought before we move on because we got to move.

We got Solac coming up. Butterfly effect dog. Like Brock Purdy was the last pick of the draft. They had no intentions of playing them. And now you fast forward a few months, half a year. And he is their locked and loaded future. right now they think uh they let jimmy g go they're going to trade potentially number two three pick from a couple years ago and then it's sam darnald who's backing up brock purdy it's like there's a lot

invested in purdy being the real deal now in san francisco unless unless there's something else up san francisco sleeve let's move on yes alan robinson he is on the move i was a little surprised that they found a taker the los angeles rams but then you look at the trade terms and it's like okay. The Steelers acquire wide receiver Alan Robinson, who was really pretty terrible, let's face it, with the Rams and his one year there. So the Steelers get Robinson and a seventh round pick from the Rams for a seventh round pick. And this is important as well, Gregi. Los Angeles will pay 10.25 million of Robinson's 15.25 million salary. Yikes. And they get to move up 17 spots in the draft. Still 17 spots in the seventh round. There can't be a lower.

total that anyone can be traded. Can I just say, like, you know, it's not a big deal, but I feel like the Steelers lose this trade. They move up. Stop. 17 picks in the seventh round, who gives an F, and you're paying Alan Robinson $5 million this year? Alan Robinson's a $5 million player right now?

I don't think that's a crazy risk-reward scenario. That was some pretty bad tape last year. And he was pretty bad with Chicago the year before that. I guess that's a fair enough point. Like, who else is making around that much money this year? Paris Campbell signed in free agency. He's making around that. Darius Slayton for the Giants is in.

Give me those guys. But I see your point. He's going to be their third receiver. They were very thin after Deontay Johnson and George Pickens. He's a little too similar to Pickens in me. Like, there's not that many of those guys out there. And so there was a huge drop-off after their top two. So he would be their third receiver.

It doesn't seem like a crazy. gamble but you're right it probably won't really result in more than like 500 yards wide receivers are still left i mean he averaged 34 yards for game over the last two seasons so you're right that chicago year felt like it was a mailing job and last year i mean we were you know going into into september coming out of rams camp with the most flowery reporting around alan robinson possible and it completely flatlined and it now with what they've traded before it looks like a complete disaster if we're looking for depth for pittsburgh i'll use the graybeards my team of 30 and over veterans.

Odell Beckham, off the board. Jarvis Landry, still out there, right? Yeah. Would you rather Jarvis Landry? T.Y. Hilton, still out there. Julio Jones, still out there. Randall Cobb. Robbie Chosen Anderson is off the market.

Now, Sammy Watkins. Anyway, these are other options. Probably you can get it at a cheaper cost. But I guess you can look, you could squint and say maybe, and the Steelers are good with wide receivers, they can unlock something in Robinson that wasn't there last couple years. I mean, they're not asking it to be number one. I guess I'm just saying, like, I'm not going to go nuts slamming him when he's making like a little more than Byron Pringle and Nelson Aguilar.

That's sort of the level they're at. But you're right. The Rams were, I guess, just happy for anyone to pay any of his salary, which is telling they just wanted to total. They just were paying to give him away, which is crazy. You know, he appeared on our show, during Corona. And his career went off completely off the map very soon after. I'm not saying that they're related, but it's. just a warning to players in general.

If you were to appear on this show, like the future is a mystery. Pretty bad segment with Alan over the last summer. No, in at the Rams camp as well. So a lot of a noise being picked up by. Well, right. Aaron Donald was right next door with our friend, Ricky Hollywood making a lot of noise over the loudspeaker.

And Alan Robinson was disrupted. That might have been where it changed. I'm not going to point fingers. And I know, especially after the last show with Justin, but Gravedigger. That was a bit of a test for you at Rams Camp last summer when Ricky was alpha dogging that and doing this loudspeaker interview with Aaron Donald. Like you could have went over there and pulled the plug on that interview so we could have gotten better Alan Robinson sound. The ship has sailed, but that's all.

Sorry about that. I guess I really dropped the ball there. But it was cool to see Ricky out there just doing her thing talking to Aaron Donald, you know? Do you think that? Somebody answered some great. It's like a PR flag But Erica is a wonderful former colleague of mine And a friend, it was good to see her

So you don't She had Daniel Jeremiah on her podcast the other day Put that on the ATN story So just, you know, shouting her out We love Ricky We love Ricky Went to Australia She did

Killed it She tried out as a Rams cheerleader recently I haven't heard the results of the tryout I'll check in with her I think pending She saw Taylor Swift In Tampa I know that's an important thing for her.

If Taylor Swift closed Sunday night at Coachella, are you watching? Absolutely. In other news, this is cool. This is very cool. Tomorrow Hamlin, he plans on making a comeback in the NFL. And he got into more detail in a press conference, his quote, I'm here to announce that I plan on making a comeback to the NFL. He told a reporter he's 25 years old.

Of course, he had that really horrifying incident on January 2nd on Monday night football. He explained the nature of the cardiac arrest, one of those one in a million, one in a billion, whatever it is, hit at the exact wrong time that messed with his heart rate and it needed to be restarted, obviously, and it saved his life. The bills announced the safety was cleared for football activity, so the bills are cool with it. Hamlin's cool with it. This would be one of the great comeback stories. and really not since Mark, let's see, what would it be? Alex Smith, would there be more of a slam-back, slam-dunk comeback, I know it's a different sport, slam-dunk comeback player of the year than Demar Hamilton?

I mean, we're months removed from wondering, like, A, if he would survive, like, B, if he would live a normal life, and now we're here. And, like, it would be incredible just to see him on the field. And I think you're right that if you just pull the comeback player of your odds off the table because there's literally there's no second place opportunity for anyone to even survive in that contest. I think I got kind of lost that

he was an important player for them like a good young improving safety. They did bring back Jordan Poyer this year but he'll have a big role on the team. I mean, I'm sure I'm not the only one that's going to be somehow like seeing him out there is going to, you'll have mixed feelings. Like you almost, you're just hoping for the best.

You know, how can you not think about what happened? But all power to him that he's, He wants to play. He's ready to play. Absolutely. Best of luck to DeMar Hamlin. That's what's happening in the news. Let's take a break.

And then welcome in Ben Solek. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that. What was that?

Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative. and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody?

Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from Scouting Reports and player development To team-building philosophies, coaching trends in how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision-makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze match-ups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig into coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year.

Whether you're a die-hard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. to pull up some Frank Ocean-like music. How are we doing over in the music department? Well, I don't know how much they have to pick from, but they've made it a selection.

Joining us now is a man who knows his stuff. Here, here's the thing about our podcast. When we have a draft person on or someone that knows the draft, they are the real deal. So let's welcome in, Ben Zolak, of the ringer. who does excellent work, covering the league as a whole, but also just obviously a stud when it comes to the draft season and we're going to get things going with Ben.

How are you, bud? I'm doing well. Greg, you're looking vibrant today. Just bright orange, loving that. Thank you, yes. Still Hawaii in my mind wearing a nice, dull sweatshirt. But thank you for pointing our listeners to the YouTube channel. I know you're a big YouTube start.

That's how you do it. We're trying to grow it there. So check out my sweatshirture. Well, I just had it, Dan, and I, Look, when you're in that front. Largely muted, largely great scale. What is over your left shoulder right now? What does that say, Ben?

Before we get into the outliers of the NFL drab? Yeah, so that's my whiteboard. It goes up a lot, like Greg said, I do a lot of shows for the ringer, and the whiteboard always got a bit on it. And for the past month, it's been Anthony Richardson, no matter what, which when I wrote it, I didn't realize that Zoom was going to cut off Anthony Richardson most of the time.

So I've been explaining this a lot. It's obviously a call back to the great Kevin Koster film Draft Day and also my feelings on the top of the quarterback class. Okay, so we're going to get to the draft step, but I want to start there because this continues to pop up. And I think maybe Ben is someone who's active on social media and has a following. You are pushing this narrative that Draft Day is a good movie.

Why are we doing this? Why are we pretending? Like, if we go back and watch that film. I still haven't seen it. In which Jennifer Garner plays a capology. just tell me that that is a good movie or just a movie that has football in its narrative structure and uses the real logos. To me, that's the only thing that movie really had going for it.

Are you going to say that was a good film, Ben? Absolutely not. Not a good film by any stretch of the imagination for 358 days of the year. Now, is it a nice centering experience to hear them like, you know, make these, like all of all all of the memes, all of the tropes, right? Where it's like, ask me if anybody went to his birthday party. Oh, you should see how far he's throwing the ball. Like, it just reminds you that, yeah, everything we talk about in the NFL draft,

if you were to just put it, like, get a third person view on it, you realize how bananas this entire process is, how all of this is contrived. It's all made up. And that's why draft day is fun to watch. All right. Maybe I'll revisit it. Let's start. Wait, but I want to know if Ben is aware, because Ben was probably 14 years old when it came out,

that one of the three hosts here's, had a pull line used in the promotions of the movie. And the line was full of heart from start to finish, dash Mark Sessler. And it was literally in the trailer of the movie, I believe. Can I literally just give a little bit of backstory to this? Because I had gone to see. You're part of history.

I mean, I had gone to see. I learned a great lesson. As a younger person yourself, like, I hope you would not fall into this trap based on this parable. But like, I was at my, parents' house in South Carolina and it was well into the evening and had a couple of glasses of of wine to me and had at some point offered to give a review to the PR team of draft day. In short, they called me on the phone and I read something that I had written, which was a little

too flowery and maybe a little too, they pulled one line out of it and suddenly it goes national with me glowing over draft day and I've never lived it down, so don't follow in my path. By the way, too long didn't read. Mark was drunk when he gave that quote. Is that accurate? No, I would say head in there. We're going to summarizing. Yeah. And I'll say, I've said it before.

We're going to get to it, but now we're on this draft day thing. We were there at Radio City Music Hall when they were shooting scenes for draft day. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll never forget the panic when they were looking for Frank Langella, who played, I think, the owner maybe of the team. And they're at, where's Frank? The owner of the Browns. Yeah.

Where's Frank? Where's Frank? And Frank Langella was wandering down Broadway. And they had to send a PA to track him. down so he can get the shot before the draft started. A little inside base. Imagine if they had not gotten that shot, imagine. Flangella.

All right, enough of this. Would have lost the whole show? Let's get to it, Ben. Should we start Richardson? Yeah, he's like the only, he's the ultimate freak. Anthony Richardson, no matter what, the Florida quarterback. And you are obviously, based on the whiteboard, a huge fan, one of the heaviest cubies ever to test at the combine and scored off the charts on all the measurables.

And do you say, Ben, because of that, because he's such a athletic freak outlier that you've got to take a chance on this unicorn. Yes, but also no. I think that the most important thing to say in the Richardson evaluation, we talk about him, is that while he is a project, right, he does need to build him, he's got rough edges, he needs work. He is not nearly like the raw ball of clay, you know, a year away from being a year away. He's not that caliber of project.

There's shades of gray. We love to go like either guys, a project or he's ready to play. And it would be nice if the world were that. binary, but it isn't. When I look at when Tray Lance came out of North Dakota State, he goes three overall. When Josh Allen comes out of Wyoming, he goes seven overall. Those guys were doing fewer developed things as pocket passers than Anthony Richardson was. Richardson is one of the lowest sack rate quarterbacks to come out in recent years. He is unbelievable like buying time in the pocket, finding a checkdown, getting rid of the football. This isn't like a crazy

scrambler, make it all up, it's always back yard football. He does legitimate 202, 303 level things at the football field. He's only started 12 games, so he's not complete. There's inconsistency. There's easy mistakes. But it is not challenging to see the final form of this player in terms of the actual like, you know, professional top button button quarterback stuff. And then he runs a 4-4 and he's 240 pounds. He can throw the ball 60 yards. And so now we're, now we're describing a truly elite ceiling, not saying he's going to make it, not saying he's going to be Josh Allen, but saying that the idea that, oh, if you take Anthony Richardson, you're going to lose all your games in 2023, and then maybe by

2024 he's ready. I don't subscribe to that. I see a player that's going to need a little bit of time. The first couple starts are going to be rocky, but I could see you getting a functional NFL offense out of him very quickly. And you you guested with Danny Kelly on the PFF mock draft, and you had the number one overall pick

for the Panthers, and you boldly just took Anthony Richardson and mentioned a lot of the stuff that you just did. I do wonder though, because Bryce Young obviously is another outlier in terms of his size, his weight, and how you project that over the course of time in terms of durability. When you made that pick in that situation,

when your mindset, is it pro-Anthony Richardson or is it also mixed with concern as, in that case, the general manager or coach taking on the Bryce Young project beyond the stuff you like about him? Yeah, it's a mix. It certainly is. The way I like to talk about Bryce Young is this. I love watching him play.

Great player. Awesome dude. He's an inspiration. He's sick. He's so much fun. Can't wait to watch him play for somebody else. I'm so excited to root for him when somebody else takes the swing on the 5 foot 10, 200 and pound quarterback. Do you feel awkward at all as a slighter, shorter man

to talk about a prospect that way? Extremely so. I did our big Bryce Young scouting report video for the ringer this week. And literally in the top minute, I go, now I understand if people are frustrated about a person my size complaining about Bryce Young's size

because it really does feel like a very small pot calling a larger kettle black but that's the reality of it is I'm not trying to play the NFL he is right and for for young the size in terms of shortness is a concern ability to see over the middle of the field the weight affects his dropbacks the size in terms of slightness is a concern the durability the hits he plays a style of ball that invites a ton of contact and you have to be concerned about the body armor the durability how long he can sustain his level of play five six seven years I think that, like, Young has already succeeded from an outlier perspective in his size by playing as well as he did in the SEC.

Like, he is already shown that he can handle it and he can, he can get it. He can get it done. He can, he can achieve at this lower size at the college level. Now we've got to do it again at the pro level where everything gets ratchet up a couple of notches. It's a very, very thin eye of the needle that you're trying to thread. To me, I don't know if I don't want to make the pick. Right. And it sounds like he's got to go first and they're not going to be that worried about it.

He did take lots of hits in the SEC, but to stick with Richardson, one last thing is like, I don't think he's been overhyped. Like, I've been getting some grief on Twitter that I have a type in terms of quarterback prospects. It's like there is no other type that's like Anthony Richardson coming out in the draft. Cam Newton is the only one that could compare physically in terms of what he can be as an athlete, but he might have the best pocket presence in this class. And so that's why he doesn't seem like he's that big of a risk.

I think he has a high floor. maybe he doesn't have, and he has a high ceiling, too, and maybe he doesn't reach that, but his, like, inaccuracy doesn't seem that bad to me. They were just throwing down the field, and for the most part, he was accurate enough. And my type is, like, athletes, but it's also pocket presence. Like, Philip Rivers is my favorite quarterback just about over the last 20 years because he has insane pocket presence, and Richardson has that, which is, like, you kind of can't teach that. He moves around and makes time in the pocket.

So that's, like, two things. to me it's hard to imagine having those two things and not succeeding. And he's the ultimate freak. He would be the most fun person to have in your team. That's all. Mark. Absolutely, I would agree with you. Oh, I didn't know if you had.

Oh, I have someone that I had been fascinated with. And I heard you talk about him a little bit. It's Darnel Washington. When we talk about a physical freak, 6-7, 264, and just watch some of his tape, just the way he appears next to other human beings, even very large human beings, the field. I guess the question is, because there's no, there's no doubt that like he would

absolutely be a tantalizing idea for scouts for coaches and what you might turn him into. Do you think that he can come in and be highly productive as a pass catcher after what you've seen of his college tape? Not in year one, because right now, Washington is a guy that in order to produce, you have to funnel him targets. You have to choose to throw him in the football. He's really good yards after the catch, right? He's really good turning a shallow pass into a big long run. In terms of his route trait, in terms of how he had. dresses the ball downfield, he's in need of development. The reasons because Georgia had him and Brock Bowers, who you feel to watch college football, Brock, man, Brock's about as good as it gets

for a college tight end. He's unbelievable. He's going to go very, very high next year. And so they let Brock be the receiving tight end. And then Washington would stay in him block and occasionally they'd leak him out, use him on play action. And then he'd get a catchier, catch there, become a stampeding Tyrannosaurus Rex after the catch. But he's not like he just got a ton of reps and a ton of opportunity to develop in terms of a true pass catcher. So if you draft Washington early on to get him to produce in the passing game, you have to decide, okay, we're running a darn out Washington play. Hopefully, over the time he plays in the NFL,

we're in a plus blocker for you. He's a weapon in the running game so he can lead block, right? He can be impactful in space. And then with those catches that he gets in the design game, he starts to grow his route tree more downfield, more mature route tree that you tend to see from NFL tight ends. And now you got a stew going. I mean, now you're cooking with that bad as complete of a tight end.

as you can get. He's very, very exciting. I'm increasingly becoming accustomed to the idea of him going at the back end of round one. I think if you're talking like two or three weeks ago, I would have said, no, I don't think it's happening. The closer but yet, the more it seems like there's a couple chances for him to go late round one. I think by pick 50, he's gone. Well, you brought up, you know, his playing time and you kind of have to look deeper when you look at that Georgia roster, like why you're not getting them any snaps. And so when I think freaks are size outliers, like they have two more in this draft. that we could talk about.

Nolan Smith, to me, is like a prototype that we really don't have in the NFL. Maybe it's Asan Reddick. Maybe the way that defenses are now playing like five defensive linemen, essentially, like, five-man fronts at the same time. And the fifth guy is like sort of defensive lineman, but not really. And that's a son-redic. That could be Nolan Smith, who just seems like an insane pass rusher, but it's just incredibly light. And then also you have Jalen Carter as your number one overall player, and he's a freak in terms of talent in terms of what he can do at that size.

And we haven't really talked about Carter that much other than the off-field stuff. So I guess between those two, I'd love to hear, like, why you do have Carter first and kind of taking away the off-field stuff, because he's also a guy that hasn't ever played more than 400 snaps in a season, which is wild for a guy who was the presumptive number one overall pick. Like, why would he be that high without seeing him on the field as much as you would want in Georgia. Yeah. I'm just like moving my hands around a lot. There's no there's no way to talk without hands. It's never been done before. It's like a 74 year old Sicilian grandmother. Like in a

kitchen. Go ahead. Now my in my family is, is Russian, right? Russian immigrants and just always everything. All the time I'm on pods and you're hearing snapping and clapping in the background because it's me imitating my mother. Carter and Nolan Smith, man, I don't know what they feed him in Georgia. It's unbelievable. When you talk to college, people who like look at recruiting, they say the biggest difference between Kirby and at Georgia, Nick Sabin and Alabama is saving kind of recruits guys who get a good high weight speed. And then we can add mass to them.

We can develop them. Kirby just drafts guys who just move differently than everybody else moves. He just scours the country, finds the 10 guys you can't teach it and gets them all in a bulldog's uniform. So with Nolan Smith, this is the sort of body type and athletic profile that years ago was going to be carrying 230. 30 pounds, it was going to be playing wide receiver. Instead, now he's carrying 240 pounds, and he's playing, he's playing the edge, playing pass rusher.

The enthusiasm that this young man has for defending the run at this size is really sick. I mean, it's, it's awesome to see. And it gives you hope that he's going to be able to hang on the edge of the NFL level. You bring up a son Reddick, Uchenna Nuwosu, who a long-time charger now with the Seahawks is another example of he's going to stand up. He's going to line up super wide away from the tackle. He's going to be impactful pass rusher. Can he stay on the field for all three downs? Can you put him on the field in first and 10?

the big question with him. And with the way he plays the run in the SEC, I think you can, but I be holding my breath. I mean, really, those first couple weeks, watch him in training camp, you're really hoping that he's got that stuff. He's going to be at about an 80 pound deficiency to the guys he's playing in the running game. So it's scary, but he's got an encouraging film. With Carter, the, the rotation at Georgia is part of, is part of the result of how well they recruit. It's also part of the recruiting process. They are willing to get young players on the field. We're willing to put really talented freshmen, retro freshman sophomores on the field. And accordingly, you kind of get some of these low snap counts. It doesn't bother me too much with

him. Carter's the sort of guy where, you know, you watch him for about 5, 10 plays. You go, oh, yeah, no, 310 pounds don't move like this. This isn't real. This is a figment. This has been doctor. This is AI footage. It's, it's endomic and Sue-esque, in my opinion. I've heard Fletcher Cox. I think that's a warranted comparison as well. This is a guy with double-digit sack potential from the interior. Yeah. Conditioning is going to be a question in your one. But if I'm taking him top three, top five, top 10, I'm trying to maximize his role in my defense such that, yeah, if he needs some time off in year one, I'll give him that time off in year one to ensure he's the force he can be on third down. So I'm not too concerned about the

volume. Let's let's circle back to because everything with this draft and we talk about the outliers, the freaks of the draft. This draft small. It's like it's going to be a short number one pick. You got short arms. You got smallish wide receivers. But let's talk, Ben. The short king, deuce Vaughan, running back, Kansas State. Five foot five. Gregi, five, Gregi. You got him. The shortest dude ever measured at the combine.

MJD, one of the great running backs of the aughts, also NFL employee here now, has him as his number fourth rank running back prospect. What do you think of... MJD, who they rounded up to 5-7 or so. Right, there's something there. But also weighed about 30 more pounds coming out. Ben's friend in coworker, Danny Kelly, called this player MJD with a tapeworm. So there is some connected tissue.

So let's talk about our short king out of Kansas State. He is a delightful young player. He's quick as a wink. He's tough as nails. It's actually really good in pass protection because he's naturally predisposed to chopping blitzers. He's a great cup block player because he can't really be much of anything else. So he's actually really good in pass protection. I think there's a way that he's a special team's player.

I'm not sure that he's got runaway speed such that like, you know, he's he's going to be like a truly impactful returner. But he's up, he's physical and he can hang. He can definitely make guys miss. You are very limited in terms of what you can run with him as a true running back because he's just not going to be able to break the number of tackles that you need him to in the first level. It's really hard to get him to run between the tackles consistently at the NFL.

So I'm sadly out on our short King Duce Fawn. However, I do find Duce Vaughn a delightful player. He's very fun to watch. He's a lot of college career. You just put another chip on his shoulder. It feels like, have you looked in the mirror and just thought like, you know, you've been down on some of these shorter, smaller guys.

Is there something you need to work out, you know, in terms of like, is it coming from the inside, you know? Short king on short. King Violetian. That he just likes the big guys. I'm trying to say, be proud. Like, I love me some tanked L. I like some of these smaller receivers.

I think we have something. Let's raise them up. Let's lift them up, Ben, instead of trying to hold them down. Oh, football's for big guys. Let's bring this up on the screen here. And this was a tweet that you responded to the other day. Someone, explain this, Ben. Someone's coming at you in this time of year when you're obviously putting a ton of

working about your actual playing history. And you swatted them down. Yeah, the folks like to say all the time, this guy's never played a Snapple football in his life, which means that they haven't watched fifth and sixth grade Strausberg High School football. Exactly. I was the starting slot back.

Thank you very much. We were in a practice in seventh grade before the season started. And future first round pick of the Colorado Rockies, Mikey Nicorak, who was our quarterback, hit me in an Oklahoma drill. He's a quarterback now. Hit me in Oklahoma drill and left an indent in the turf

where my body landed. I distinctly remember looking up into the sky and going, yeah, marching band. I think is probably that's where you're Mark the band and cross cut out that's going to be the move

that's all good Mark's Pop Warner days have floated our show for years we've always needed that like what are our bona fides like Mark played in Pop Warner

I played in the backfield and if I were not roughly 20 years older than Ben we might have faced each other on the field I wanted one of those fields but absolutely yeah

it's um I love the I love the you never played it's like yeah man like everyone knows. No, nobody was watching my stuff going, well, this guy definitely played in college.

And they saw your tweet and they were like, wait a minute. No, he didn't. You're not breaking any news. Do you have a favorite of those small receivers? Do you, any of that you like? Because you mentioned, I think there's nine that are under 180 pounds in this draft, which is just crazy. And there's guys like, like Tanktail, who's probably going to be a day two pick.

But, you know, it's like 165, which is just another level. Yeah, if I can sneak Zay Flowers in there, the young man in Boston College is 182, I love Zay Flowers. That's an explosive player with a lot of deep potential. I think that, I think Zay is going to go earlier than people think. I think Zay's got a good chance to be wide receiver one, depending on where Smith and Jamba goes. Wow. He likes him a lot. The Patriots have like met Zay Flowers' third cousins at this point. Like the Patriots scouting staff has just lived with Zayflowers for the last month. It seems like he's a legit option there in the teens. And then if we go true under 180, Josh Downs at a

UNC is really fun. It's always cool to see a smaller receiver be really, really effective in contested catch situations, which was what he is. He's got a great knack. We've got a great eye for the ball. Very, very shifty. He's just a slot. They're just all slots at the NFL level. And the slot position is moving away from small, speedy guys. And it's moving towards big guys who can contribute in the blocking game and can contribute in the running game. And so it's just harder to find homes for these dudes than it was five, 10 years ago. One little note on Zay Flowers today. He is actually working. working out with Patrick Mahomes, the chiefs brought him in for that specific reason.

I know they'd have to move around to get him, but that would be juicy. Indeed. I love it. And we'll end things with this, a tweet from earlier today from Benjamin Solek, where you could follow him on Twitter. Day one of the 2003 NFL draft is in eight days. And I think I could better predict the first five picks of the 2024 draft than I could the 2020. I kind of like that. Yeah.

Like, the drafts there, you could kind of nail the top 10 or get close to it. Not as compelling to me as these wide open years. So it will be fun, Ben, to see how it all plays out. That's the sentiment of somebody who does not attempt to bet on the NFL draft right there. Those of us on my side of the line. I really like those ones. You can figure out what's going on in the top 10. I do like that.

And I do like you said to me, like we've now reached that point of the draft process. You put a moratorium on new draft takes. more new draft takes. There you go. Everything has been said. And now we just kind of ride right out the next nine days. Nothing new. Yeah.

Anybody who's dropping a I think X could Y on April 15th, you're just bored. You're just bored and out of stuff. Time to stop. We've done enough. Let's see what happens. Ben, thank you for joining us, buddy. And everybody follow Ben on his NFL stuff, his draft stuff at the ringer, of course. And the ringer NFL show on Spotify.

And anywhere else you get your podcast. podcast. Ben, thank you very much, bud. Appreciate it, fellas. Big fan. See you, Ben. Thank you. There he goes. Good stuff from Benjamin Solek. All right, one more break, and then we'll finish up the show. Hey, this is Matt Jones. Now, I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero.

We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be in, formative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more.

What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from Scouting Reports and player developers. To team-building philosophies, coaching trends in how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision-makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze match-ups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day.

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You know, we've been doing this show a while when, yeah, people we have on were in their teens when Draft Day came out. don't really know that but that would be my guess i don't know where he's at i think mid he's 26 i believe let's just say ben is most likely younger than us and perhaps significantly so but he knows his stuff and uh yeah yeah i don't there are people that will and speaking of which here's a plug mark you have your mock draft coming up um justin graver our producer kind of put his uh kind of made his big arrival at the draft last year in terms of our universe by competing with his own mock draft that he really did well. Yes. And now what we have here, Gregi, and they are different sports.

But there's a bit of a magic bird thing going on here now between Graver and Sessler in terms of the mock draft coming up this next week. So I'm very excited. I don't know if I'm magic or bird in that scenario, but if magic or if one of the two were massively detached from the pending results, that would be. be written about this, documentaries made. It's definitely missing, you know, kind of one component, which I think was a factor in the whole Magic Bird thing.

The racial component's not here, but, you know, or any talent, yeah. It could be it. Yes, we're missing the racial component of this mock draft rivalry. It took the most good. It took it to another level. Yes, Justin. I haven't putting a lot of pressure on myself to actually do well this year because I feel like I did pretty well last year, you know,

10 team player matches would have tied for first, according to the huddle report, that grades all the mock drafts. Humble brick. But now I'm like, if I don't live up to those expectations I've set for myself, I'm going to be very disappointed. And it's an unpredictable draft.

As someone who I think nailed maybe one pick last year, I will tell you that you'll wake up the next day and life continues to forge on. You've said, Mark, I don't know if this is still the case a few weeks later, that you've been reinvigorated by the draft process this year, which makes me think you might be ready to deliver your masterpiece.

I will. I think that, as Ben was saying, this is the, if Ben Solac has done thousands of hours of work and does not believe he could even do a better mock than just simply guessing next year's draft, I think that's an ominous roadmap for myself attempting the same process.

But I think that also says anyone can, like my mom could do one of these and probably get in the top five thing of this little thing. You just gave me another idea. Yeah. Can we get your mom to do a mock draft? Yeah, it would seem like the hard air thing

I think it's for my mom would be knowing which players are going to be good at football at the NFL level. But you can't really do that immediately after the draft. You can't really, no one knows who is actually good at doing that. They don't know. So Graver wins. They don't know.

I'm going to be kept up at night about the missing racial component of the mock draft off. I'm just saying you're expecting it to take off. That's sort of the unsaid Larry, you know, bird magic thing. Right. I don't think it would have taken off in the same way. Two whites takes away some sizzle here. Hey, speaking of what?

You got a big announcement. What day are we dropping your mock, by the way? Do we have a plan for that? I'd love to know. I'd also love to know the answer to that. How about next week? The whites are out of the year. What day next?

Later in the week. Let's go later. Obviously. Next Monday? No. Next late Wednesday? Sure. That's the latest we can go.

I think went right up to the edge is when we do it because there's new information coming in. Oh, because you do it like the, The Mayock version, it's like, I'm not with all these. The riff-rath, I give you one mock draft, and that's all you get. There's no 2.0, 3.0-4-1-4-1. I think there's probably no point to it. We've done it on Wednesday. Yeah, we'll do Wednesday.

Big announcement. Because I always remember draft day, you're like, oh, things have already changed. My mock's all messed up. He does care. I like that you do care, Mark. Yeah, like, a little dog, like, biting at your ankle as you're just attempting to just do your thing. Can you just shut up? Big announcement on the draft.

We've been teasing this, and now here it is. Do we have the horns? Do we have the medieval times or the height of the English Empire? Yeah. Some call it a fallen empire now, but listen, we have a huge overseas fan base, so we would never say that.

We don't reference them that way. We will be doing a live stream of the 2023 first round NFL draft from the NFL media headquarters here live YouTube stream we will be on camera this feels like a mistake we'll be on camera for all three plus hours of the first round chopping it up discussing the different moves the picks the trades we'll have obviously if you're familiar at all with the Friday fun show we'll have a comment section we'll have we'll interact interface with our listener

slash viewers, as well as other fun things to come, which we should be planning post-haste. But that will be a component as well. Some guests, hopefully, we'll be coming in, sitting with us. It's kind of like a hang. It's a hang. We're still got anyone who's the audio only, we're still doing the podcast afterwards, recapping round one, as we would always do. And if you wanted to check out the YouTube, it's going to be best live.

But I think it'll be up there on YouTube after the fact, too. You can just re-watch it over and over. And Mark, people say, this is revolutionary. No one's ever done this before. A live stream. And that's just what we are. We're innovators. I think from a technological angle,

we've always been aggressive, and this is another example of that. It's like, have you ever wondered what it'd be like to just hang out with us as we watch the drag? They're just like regular guys. It's like hanging out with guys at the bar. That's the show right there.

That's the show. Do we do the thing now where we brag about not going to the men's room the entire time? We just sit in his chairs for three hours? No, I will be using the lavatory multiple times. Okay. So many times. So many times.

As we please. See, that's one of the things about Dan when you're, when you watch games with him. You're just like, what is happening? Where's Dan? He missed the entire third quarter. Irish goodbyeing. He had halftime and he's still gone. Is he okay?

That's what separates our show. We're in the bathroom all the time. It's very different. It would be a lot of fun. It's like, they're just buddies. It's like, that's the show. too many drops at this point we haven't done this though

it will be a fun a fun time to hang I am looking forward to here's my here's my pitch to the audience because we really want you to join us the listeners it could be really good and fun it could be really bad also yeah what if we get like 38 minutes in

and we realize this is uh ishtar this is a complete that's what I mean if we're all of a sudden doing our version of draft day it's we're in and you get to see that Although it could be like Dan's surprise birthday party that Emily threw. Dan could just be like, no, we're ending this. Can we do deuses if we don't like the flow?

I think so. I don't know if you get to do that. A pandemic Zoom call you can parachute out? It's not on NFL now or anything like or NFL Plus or anything. So it's like we're running. It's our call. That could be part of the dramatic tension. Will we get to hour three?

I do like that. The shadowy league figures seem somewhat invested. Oh, here's a. Oh, here it is. Look at this. From April 8th, 2014, Draft Day's official Twitter account, I wonder if that still exists. Draft Day movie, I guess it does.

Mark Sessler, NFL, colon, hashtag Draft Day delivers on the great tension of the NFL draft. There's full of art. Get your tics. Boom. What a disaster. I have absolutely retweeting this with no content. And there it is. Full of heart from start to finish.

Mark Sessler, comma, NFL.com, comma, around. the league. That was the beginning of my break with Twitter, roughly a decade ago. Wait, when is it? Are you broken? You're still together. I lost interest in it,

and it was because of that and the resulting... So thanks for retweeting that, Greg, if you're going to be finding that right now. Appreciate that. What happens to these Twitter handles when the movie's long gone? I guess it just... Oh, man, Dennis Leary was terrible in this movie.

Got to still be there. They've got to retweet of Rich. who had Garner the Capologist. They put P. Diddy in it? What a mess. Anyway, all right. It was meant to be the Bills before the Browns. That's right.

Oh, yeah. The other thing is, how could you ever get behind? As a sports fan, any movie that opens with the Seattle Seahawks defending Super Bowl champions have the number one overall pick. Get out of here. Yeah, what are we doing here? I'm going to find this. There is a column somewhere on NFL. where, Dan, you and I both gave our viewpoints on it.

And I know that you've recently come down so hard on it. I want to go back and see what you wrote because I thought you were a little bit closer to the middle. And I will... I'll drum up my results of it. Perhaps. Perhaps a little closer. That was an NFL.com. It was a fresh review.

I remember our boss at the time was very pointed in, hey, you can't kill the movie. We have an investment here. Sort of an absurd, like, written product if we can't give an actual review. If we could track that down, if you read that back and forth because you weren't over the moon about the movie until you had the glasses of wine.

No, but it's been advertised as if I consider it to be like Apocalypse Now or something, which is not the case. No, Greg, the Seattle Seahawks in the film are the defending Super Bowl champions as I think they were in real life at the time. I see. And then they were like they had the number one overall pick. Well, I mean, yeah, the Seahawks have the number five pick here

after the first round play. I'm just saying that. I don't think that's ever happened in the history. of the sport. Bit of a stretch. Anyway, all right. That's it. Anything else?

Live stream next Thursday night. Huge. Mega. Mega. 8 p.m. Eastern or something like that. Be there. Seriously. Be there.

And heed the call. Is never too old to rave in the desert with black pink. Doesn't know what a black pink is, but that's not going to stop them, baby! Need someone to hold this camera so we can get a good pick in front of the giant Ferris wheel. We'll be at the Mojave stage if you need us. This is an I-heart podcast.