NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Mike Tomlin Steps Away From Steelers, Coaching Carousel Roundup

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

Gregg Rosenthal and Jourdan Rodrigue react to Mike Tomlin stepping down as Steelers HC, the Eagles moving off of Kevin Patullo as their OC (21:30), the Chargers firing OC Greg Roman (24:30), Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti talking about the future of the team (30:20), Matt Ryan's new role with the Falcons (41:00), John Harbaugh's market (45:30) and more as the coaching carousel starts to spin. Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Welcome to NFL Daily, where it's the end of an era. I'm Greg Rosenthal here with my friend Jordan Roderig in the Chris Wesleying podcast studio, ready to talk about a lot of coaching news from around the league and looking at some of the openings and vacancies. But yes, this is the day where we talk about Mike Tomlin stepping down after 19 seasons as head coach of the Pittsburgh. Steelers. Jordan, I have a big question for you. What were you doing in 2006 when Mike Tomlin took over that job? Oh my gosh. He was 34 years old. I'm going to give you some time by

talking. You know math is not my forte, Greg. I think I was like 12. Okay. I think. So you're just like going to sixth grade or something. Yeah, maybe 14. Yeah. So I was a lot of changes in one's body happened. Whoa, okay. We're just talking about coaching here, Jordan. No. That's insane to think that, yeah, you're about the age of my daughter. I was over at Rota World covering the NFL at the time.

And I remember Mike Tomlin, maybe NBC had just bought us, was a relatively unknown assistant, relatively, I would say. He had some buzz as like a position coach with Tony Dungey back with the Bucks. And then he did have one year as a defensive coordinator. under Brad Childress. But Brad Childress was a defensive play caller and defensive coach. So sometimes you don't get a lot of attention. And it was a surprise hire.

And it went fantastic. He wins a Super Bowl, what, in his second season? He gets back there early on to it's been a minute. And I guess we aren't shocked, Jordan, because we've been talking about this for the last month plus as a possibility. And yet, when you see the news, it still does feel like a shock, even though we literally were talking last night on the Monday night show that this could be it.

It's a sea change. It's the end of an era. As you mentioned, Greg, you'll never forget kind of the day that this changed. He is an institution in football. He is an institution in the NFL. He was the picture of consistency, whether that was a good thing or whether it eventually became a negative for him as well. But when you talk to any coach who's coming into the league, any coach who has been in the league, for years at this point. And there are very few with the tenure now that, you know,

Mike Tomlin had and that John Harbaugh before him had as well. All of it was just awe. If only we can have a career like the one that Mike Tomlin had. If only we could establish a legacy like the one that he established. That is the sentiment pouring out of these buildings right now. A lot of respect for that guy. And the immediate thought, you know, for what's going to be next for the Steelers and Tomlin? In terms of Tomlin, Ian Rappaport and various insiders, but him specifically talked about the Fox job could be open, like that Jimmy Johnson's seat,

they never really filled that because, you know, you got to get six guys to fill three minutes, you know, at halftime instead of five. If you can, you should. You should, especially if it's Mike Tomlin. That that might, that's been one that has kind of been put out there. Sounds to me like maybe that's the one Mike Tomlin wants, that TV might be an idea for him, similar to Sean Payton a few years back.

Remember, he spent a year with the Fox crew, and then he jumped right back in. You never know. He's 53 years old, so a relatively young man for, you know, head coaching. But I remember when Bill Cowher lost his job with the Steelers, the expectation was he was always going to return. He was always rumored for all these different head coaching jobs in the NFL and in coachman. He just never did, because he didn't need. the money and he realized like this is nice. So you never know. What do you think? What does your gut

tell you about the future of Mike Tomlin? I think TV would be great for him. I don't think he stays away for long. That's just me personally. I remember a story, Greg, I was lucky a couple years ago to go be a fly on the wall shadowing scouts at the Senior Bowl. And there's this room in the convention center in Mobile, Alabama. And it is curtained off and all the prospects go through and they do what they call the car wash. It's these 15-minute pieces of interviews that really don't tell you much, but no coaches go to the Senior Bowl unless they are very much a high draft pick, unless they're coaching in it, which means their team was really bad. No coach really wants to be there. Mike Tomlin wanted to be there. Mike Tomlin would love to visit with everybody.

He loved connecting with the scouts. I remember he would poke his head through these curtains into these different sections and sort of like prank the other teams that were around him. this is a man who loves ball. He loves ball. He loves the process of football. And that's why I think, take a break. Yes, survey the landscape, understand the ways that the league has changed, that you probably haven't had time to do so in many, many years. And then I do think that he's going to be one of the most coveted coaching hires in this next cycle.

I almost feel bad for John Harbaugh, because Harbaugh was only there one less year than Tomlin. And yet, Tomlin does feel like a bigger deal. He just felt like such an institution. And as I mentioned, he was an unknown assistant when he, you, arrive there. He leaves there tied with Chuck Noel poetic, right, for ninth in all-time regular season wins in NFL history. And here's the list of the coaches in front of him. Don Shula, George Hallis, that's from 1920 to 67. You get to have a long run when you own the team. Bill Belichick, Andy Reed, Tom Landry, Curly Lambo, Paul Brown. These guys have the

stadiums named after them. And then shout out to Marty Schottenheimer at eight, underrated. Now, one thing Tomlin has in common with Schottenheimer, he's the only one on that list with a losing record in the postseason. Eight and 12, big losing streak. Multiple things are true time, which is that he's a very good coach to maybe even great. The fact that he could keep that record of staying at 500 or better all this time, despite the quarterbacks that he's had, the last five or six years,

That says a lot. But it's interesting to think about the Steelers fans in your life or maybe even in the media. That they're not disappointed about this. It's sad to think about, but they got the doors blown off them on Monday night. And unfortunately, the last image I'll think about for that game is the fans chanting Fire Tomlin, which sucks. You should feel bad. You never need to be that fan. With a legend, like, it's going to happen or not.

but maybe just like a little static in a league that's so inconsistent, it is remarkable how consistently they were at this exact level. The 12th to 14th best team in the league, just good enough to get their doors blown off in the playoffs. And I think he was tired of it. You know, there was a source I think that told our insiders too, like what more does he have to prove? And I think in Pittsburgh that makes sense,

because I think he had kind of proven that it probably wasn't going to change. So I think it's probably ultimately good for everyone, even though the Roonies really weren't going to go and fire him or anything like that. Yeah, I think that the Roonies, because this felt inevitable, I think the Rooney seemed to, so far, as news of this keeps trickling out and sort of the situation becomes more known, I think the Roonies handled it with the class that you would expect, right? Because it's being framed very much as his decision and a mutual decision, certainly,

but that he had the autonomy to say, to have the conversation with them. I think one of the things that goes so unspoken, and we did talk about it yesterday, was it took so long to find quarterback play that was even near competent and even good for the rest of the season. You know, Aaron Rogers struggled a little bit out of the gate,

but then played very well down the stretch. It took them so long. It took him so long to have that. And this, the irony of this, it can put such a strain on you when everything else the rest of the team seems built at least to be above average

if they had better quarterback play over the seasons and they just didn't and then they finally get a quarterback who is a veteran who is the best case scenario in a situation where they tried and failed to get other names and all of that how straining that is to go through as a head coach

when you're like my defense cannot win a championship for this team And their defense was a big part of the problem this year. And I don't think he had his best year coaching that defense. I think they played better down the stretch. But ultimately, I think they underperformed as well, considering the money and the talent that was there. You mentioned Art Rooney, the statement that the Steelers released,

he said during our meeting today, Coach Tomlin informed me. He decided to step down as our head coach. Extremely grateful to Mike for all the hard work dedication. Hard for me to put into words. and I'm skipping a couple words here, but the level of respect and appreciation I have for Mike Tomlin, he guided the franchise to our sixth Super Bowl and made the playoffs 13 times during his tenure,

winning the AFC North eight times. His track record of never having a losing season in 19 years will likely never be duplicated. It is funny that they had that 1, 8, 8 in one year. You know what I mean? Yeah. They have to like just be, or no, 8 in 8 year. I'm sorry.

It wasn't 8 in 1. That was in the 16 game schedule because they have to say never losing. season instead of winning season. But just a legend. And Tomlin reportedly did meet with the team that the players were kind of stunned. The reporting was that people were really careful not to ask Tomlin really about what his decision was going to be because they wanted to focus on doing everything they could to possibly

win playoff games in advance this season. And it didn't happen. So I don't think that it was having to deal with Aaron Rogers for five months. That finally was too much for him. But you never, you know, you never know. What a catalyst, am I right? I'm just joking. Do you think this is a good job?

I think this is a great job. I think this is a great job because I do think, first of all, that they're headed for a rebuild. I think that Mike Tomlin had a lot of say in how many of those defensive players that they kept intact, that they paid, that they kept on the roster, that ended up being a little bit of a drain on the team in some ways and played well near the end there, but overall, really, really top-heavy, older roster that you need to move, at least try to recoup some of the value from it. So if you decide as a front office, and I do believe that the front office now will obviously take more control over what the next era of this team looks like. Between Omar Khan and Andy Wheatles there now has a long, long history with some really storied organizations and who have gone through rebuilds like this. This is one of those where you kind of are able to do whatever you want as an organization.

And that's why I think nothing is off the table for this team. They have a track record because they have such a sound. infrastructure from ownership all the way through in the city that you could take a risk on a young coach. You could take a risk on a relative unknown coach who's never had the job, maybe who's never even called plays before. Or you could say we have momentum as a franchise. We want to go from good to great. And what if they make a trade? What if they decide we're going to trade for our next who? Matt Lafleur. Who else would be? Matt Lafleur, who's in a contract year? The whole Matt LaFleur reporting, I think, has gotten a little over at skis in terms of how people interpreted the report from Monday morning where Ian Rappaport said that Matt LaFleur and the Packers and Ed Policy that the plan is to try to work on a deal.

There was a lot of qualifiers in there. Like, that is different. That was my reaction to then having a deal. They've been in this place before. I guess that news said, like, they're going to make an effort to do so, but things could change. He could want something that they don't want to give him, or vice versa, or another party, like the Steelers or some team, could get involved.

The one, and I think that is an outstanding point about Tomlin and the control that he had, and you would hear that in terms of the personnel. Like, he had a lot of juice, and I always think it's unfair when everything got blamed on the offensive coordinator there. It's like, that's, it's Tomlin. one's team. Like, just because that's his side of the ball, he's making those hires. It's his, it's his team. And so you get a refresh. The one thing is, you know, you said Omar Khan and they have had a strong front office and the lineage is very clear. Back to Kevin Colbert and

everything. You know, Omar Khan's only been there for four years. So he doesn't have as strong a track record. He is relatively new in that job. And this will be kind of stepping up even in importance. And I would say the moves over the last few years are kind of like how the team on the field's been. They've been fine. They haven't been standing out good or bad in terms of their drafts. They've been kind of middle of the pack. And so it's a big moment for him. I do think it's a good job ultimately because, yeah, there's only been three of the head coaches since the Beatles broke up.

Someone wrote it's like, that's pretty good. And you said like you wouldn't be surprised if they do an assistant, you know, a young assistant, or maybe they could go for like a veteran if they just wanted to keep it going. But I would think based on the track record and considering it's Art Rooney the second, like I would kind of expect them to pick a young relative unknown because that's what they've done in the past. Normally I wouldn't think that the hiring of Chuck Knoll back in the day would be at all instructive about what's going to happen in 2026. And then of course, Kauer and Talman.

But I actually do because I think they want to be like dad and in grandfather. And like the lineage that's made this team so successful over the last 50 years, one of the most successful franchises, after, by the way, being the least successful franchise for about 50 years, which I think people don't really know about. But like they were beyond, I was going to say the Browns, but the Browns were great back then. I mean, they were the worst franchise in football for about 50 years. and then it all turned around. Yeah, and they love the reputation of being a coaching development factory

and that they are patient and that they see what nobody else sees at the time because Mike Tomlin came out of nowhere. Yeah. But the thing that people forget is Mike Tomlin was elbow to elbow in all these rooms with some of the great coaches that are still coaching right now. Good friends with Kyle Shanahan, good friends with Sean McVeigh, been in the same buildings as Maliflor. some cases, been in the same buildings as a lot of these other lineages of coaching trees.

And yet he was the one who got the opportunity the earliest. And he stuck. And I think they love that idea. But I also think that this is a franchise that understands it's got to modernize in some ways. I hope so. That's kind of why I ask, is it a good job or not? I think it's a tricky job.

It's a tricky job. But I do think that they are aware that the league has moved in a different direction. it's trended toward offense, for example. It's trended toward people who make, give you a real, a legitimate edge in scheme. Those are the coaches that you hold on to for 20 years, right? Those are the coaches that you keep paying, that you keep extending, that you basically say are our greatest advantage as an organization. Quarterbacks come and go. Coaches don't get injured, right?

So this is where I think you have to, if you're Art Rooney and this organization, you're thinking about what do we know we'll stick in this league and where can we maximize that advantage with somebody who has the traits and the talent that we know can can do this for the long haul. I hope they keep the identity because I do like the idea though that their identity and I was thinking about this like what is the Steelers identity? Everyone sits like it's hard-nosed football this and that's like they haven't been that great a running team at different points throughout there. I think of it it's just edge rushers. God-de-s. They've had great edge rushers for 30 straight years. There's been no point where they didn't have great,

and you could even extend that to interior defensive linemen, just like great defensive line, and that is where you're building the team off of right now. And I've heard a lot about the rebuild, and I do get that. But when I went and did the exercise that I just did for 40s and free agents with Daniel Jeremiah, you can check out, we went through all the NFC teams

that are out of the playoffs, and we just kind of looked at the cap, looked at the picks that they have, looked at the free agents and everything. The Steelers, even though they are an older team, actually don't really scream rebuild in some ways, which is that, number one, they have a lot of cap space, so that's good. Number two, like, there are guys that they might say,

like, is Cam Hayward going to come back? Is he going to retire? He's playing well for the money they're paying him, but he's getting up there. You could certainly cut a few guys, like Jalen Ramsey's making a lot of money. Frankly, I would expect him to get cut. Patrick Queen, Pat Friermuth, wasn't really playing a lot. year,

Jonu Smith. There's guys that you could, you know, trim the fat or whatever. But I looked at the roster and I actually didn't see like a ton of obvious moves. They have a young offensive line.

They don't have a lot of key free agents beyond like Rogers and Kenny Gainwell is a free agent. That part of the team building part, actually I think they're kind of in a good spot where they do have some real deal talent like Highsmith and Herbig and Watt and some other, you know, D.K.

I assume is going to be, you know, but they should be building. They could win next year. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they're winning 11 or 12 games next year if they somehow got quarterback right, which is obviously the biggest. Well, and to do that, you need picks.

You need draft picks unless so cap space unless somebody magically springs up. Malik Willis, baby. You know what I mean? Malik and Matt Lafleur for a first and a third. But that's what I'm saying is like, it's not, I don't think it's certainly not a full rebuild, but it is something where you do.

have to clear out at least a piece of the previous fingerprints. Yes. And then you do need to come in and establish what you think you're going to be moving forward. And there's going to be turnover regardless of how much cap space they have. Absolutely. And I just sort of thought, like, that identity that I was talking about, which is like, if you just think of the players that are on the cap, you know, the books for next year, Watt, Cameron Hayward, Keanu Betten, Derek Harmon, High Smith, Herbig.

I don't see a lot of reason why they all wouldn't be back. So that's interesting. Alex Highsmith could be a trade candidate because you don't feel like you can pay him along with everyone else. But they could and they kind of should. They got the space. The thing that's under the radar in terms of it being a good team, a good job or not to me is I think these family-owned organizations are starting to become at a bigger disadvantage the longer we go on into this NFL life cycle. There's few of them and the Maras, Maras and the Chargers for instance. that are maybe a little more cash poor, you know?

And are you trading 10% of the franchise for, like, you know, bad, bad money so that you can have an infusion of cash? Like, that's not what they do. And that makes it a little more difficult to play a lot of the cap games and do some of the things that other organizations do. The last thing I'll say on this with Tomlin is keep an eye on Brian Flores here. Yes. Because Brian Flores took a little bit of a break from his being a head coach, and he went and coached in Pittsburgh.

He and Mike Tomlin are very close. I would have to imagine with the mutuality that this was, Tomlin has had a say in had conversations who he thinks would be a good person for a succession plan. If this is going to continue to be the identity of this team in terms of their defense, in terms of the past rush, in terms of the torment on a quarterback, that's Brian Flores. And if ever there was an organization that would hire Brian Flores and not be worried about the fact that he was in litigation with the NFL over the Rooney rule in part, it's the Rooney team. That would make sense. And yes, I heard Mike Tomlin. Did you send that tweet out that he said or someone else, you know, when asked for a piece? I think it was Connor Orr, actually.

I think Connor Orr talked to Mike Tomlin for a piece on Brian Flores. Yeah, and he said he thought that Brian Flores was currently the best coach in the NFL that was not a head coach. All right, let's actually take a quick break. So we have a lot of other news. We wanted to give the Tomlin news the time it deserved. But we're going to go through some of the firings that happened on Tuesday. Kevin Petulow is out. Greg Roman's out.

And then just a little survey of what else is happening in all these coaching and GM searches around the league. Okay, back on NFL Daily. This news rundown that we built, George. Gordon is long. Gertie. It's big. Let's start with the least surprising news of this coaching cycle, which is that Kevin Petulow will no longer be the Eagles offensive coordinator moving forward. The Eagles were very careful and how they worded it because there's a chance Petulow will keep a job within the organization in the building somewhere.

he's been close with Nick Siriani for a long time, going back to Indianapolis and everything. But he is out. And Nick Siriani said that he thought, Petulah is a good man, a good coach, but they needed to make a change. Yeah, what was interesting was players were very defensive of him as well. Per the reports coming out of Philadelphia after their playoff loss,

talking about how this was a player issue, not necessarily coach. Now, I could say you see them run the exact same four plays through the entire second half and tell you that it's a little bit of a coaching issue. as well. And all of this to say is with every one of these adjustments or changes at offensive coordinator, Mike McDaniel's bag price goes up and up and up. Yeah, he is interviewing with five different head coaching jobs and then he'll be maybe at the top of the list for multiple like other good OC jobs. Like Detroit is another one. Can you imagine Sequin Berkeley in

this offensive line with a Mike McDaniel with some of the stuff he was doing with that run game at the end of the season? Like, you're kidding. He's so different than Siriani that, I don't know. This is going to be the fifth. Think about this, though. Mike McDaniel and Kyle Shanahan made it work for a decade plus. Yes.

And this is similar. This is a similar dynamic here. In terms of offensive philosophy, they feel like, you know, they ultimately grew up in the same tree. It's Kyle's tree. So, of course he did. But, yeah, I think it's a, It's a very good job because of the talent, and yet it's a difficult job because you can just look at the history.

You're either getting a head coaching job from it, which has happened twice, or you're getting fired, which has now happened twice or three times. I mean, that's, it's a indication that Nick Siriani obviously is not going anywhere. I don't think we needed like an official item from the Eagles about that. but I was leaving like a 5% chance. Yeah. I just think it really shines the light on Siriani and Jalen Hertz. I was listening to Chris Long, who, you know, former Eagle. And, you know, he was pretty direct about it about like, to me, this is on, it's on Hertz.

And it's on Siriani. And I think Hertz's limitations, I think are fair to talk about. Yeah. He couldn't, he has achieved great things in this league and especially in the Super Bowl, but his limitations, and maybe Nick Siriani's limitations, have shown up, and so they're going to have to fix that. Another limitation that I wasn't expected to talk about was the Chargers, because they fired Greg Roman, and that's not shocking after the playoff exit that they have.

More shocking to me, I don't know if you heard this, Jordan. It's official. The film bros have turned against Justin Herbert. What? They've turned their back on him. What? It's happening. After one game.

Everyone was like, oh, you got to watch the tape. And then everyone kind of watched the tape. And I went back and did this too. And they were kind of like, actually, I don't really think they turned in the back forever. But it was a dreadful game by her. Oh, it was terrible. It was terrible. And I guess when you see the amount of open receivers that he turned down in that game,

then you feel like, okay, they do need a change from Greg Roman. A lot of his way of viewing offensive football seems a little outdated. But also it's not that different than other stuff that's going on in the NFL. And that it's just unfortunate that the worst two games of Justin Herbert's career maybe, and certainly of the last two seasons, are his two playoff games. That's a tough spot to be that he played his very worst in those two games, especially this one. But ultimately, you know, Jim Harbaugh decides you've got to make a change.

The offensive line coach, and I think that's where you can blame Roman the most. He's in charge of the offensive line too. and he could never get that figured out in terms of where the protection was going to find the blitz and stunts and all that stuff. So that's kind of a fun job. I would think being the coordinator, you're looking at these highlights

and thinking it's like it's ugly. Yeah, but that's the thing is with Justin Herbert, we're just going to have to do that thing. We do with really great quarterbacks who haven't won playoff games and it's multiple things are true. We see the potential is there. You have to match it. with the right person, that's okay.

You can be a superhero quarterback and still need to be matched with the right coordinator and the right scheme. I'm not going to really, I think, way too much of my opinion about Justin Herbert based off of this inclusive to him clearly playing through quite a bit of pain, quite a bit of harassment up front, clearly not as much trust as it deteriorated over the weeks with his receivers. You saw the scheme had a lot of issues. shoes where receivers are lining up in like the same spot,

multiple times, or running their routes to the same spot in multiple times. Like, no, you're not going to throw it there. If it only takes like one, one 12th of a defense or one 11th of a defense to cover three receivers, like you're just not going to be doing that. So I feel like this is, again, multiple things. He has greatness left in him, Greg.

Get him with the right. I know. I just, I saw like. I didn't see this. This is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So lack of a turning moment.

Theo Ash had one. And then I texted it to. to our friend Ali, he'll be on the show tomorrow and asked what he thought. And he was like, yeah. Oh, it was bad. He was just like,

it was a brutal Herbert game. Now, you can make the case, I think, that the culmination of all that this season was started to catch up with Herbert at the end. I've always been a defender, but it did seem like he got in his head

in this particular circumstance. And that's difficult because, look, I had him on my MVP ballot. I think he had a, ridiculously good regular season considering the circumstances. And I always hesitate to like put anything about playoffs regular season. Like to me a lot of it seems like chance, but maybe after the mistakes that he made last year in the playoffs,

that he got a little in his own head, kind of like C.J. Stroud did on Monday night, but in a much different way that he just didn't want to make any mistakes, which ended up resulting in him making the situation much worse. So I'm very curious. Todd Munkin is out there. He's interviewing for different jobs. He's interviewed for the Bucks O.C. job.

I believe he interviewed for the Brown's head coaching job. But it's interesting to think about John Harbaugh and Jim Harbaugh and potentially Jesse Minter all fighting not just over Monkin because he'll definitely have a job with one of those three, if not somewhere else. But over a lot of similar coaching tree type of guys, assuming Jesse Minter does have a job, which I'm going to just go ahead and assume, because he has been requested by every single team that has a vacancy.

That's eight teams, and I bet the Steelers will make it nine. Yeah, absolutely. And I can see why. I got to catch up with them for a while after a training camp practice, and he knew this was coming. He has a vision for how he wants to build a team. He comes from an infrastructure of team building. He coaches a great defense, but he also has connectivity to a lot of other pockets and a lot of other people in the league that then have in turn connectivity with great coaches.

He's seen what great quarterback play looks like. He's seen what it needs to be better. I just think that he's a really well-rounded candidate. But again, a lot, this is such, we talked about this before, including Jesse Minter, never done it before at this level. Very little actual NFL, even coordinating experience. So this is a gamble on a lot of these candidates, regardless of sort of their coaching tree pedigree or what have you. Right. He seems like a guy that people are impressed with the person and that he's going to do well in the room. And so he'll probably get one of these jobs.

Who knows? Like he kind of fits the Steelers bold, just a guy that younger guy that you could build around for a long time. The Ravens are potentially looking for a similar type of head coach. Steve Bishotti wasn't expecting to put him in the rundown today. And then he just made it impossible not to. More Steve Boshadhi press conferences. Steve Bishotti, by the way, is the owner of the Ravens. And he was asked a great question on Tuesday,

which was about his kicker, Tyler Loop. And the world in which Tyler Loop actually made that kick against the Steelers a week ago. If Tyler Loop makes that field goal, is John Harbaugh still here coaching this team? For a week. For a week. Okay. The reporter was kind of like, oh, I didn't expect such a great answer. Wow.

It was, he was, that was to the point. Just be honest. Like, of court, and that's, we talked about it when we said, man, they have all these candidates lined up. And they're talking to them like all right away. they looked like they were ready to do this. They had planned to do this for a couple weeks. Now, Bashati did say he talked to players after the season was over on Monday night. And he termed it like 80 to 20 that, you know, they were making this decision anyways,

but he talked to Lamar Jackson about, you know, the change at head coach. As you all know, you've gotten to know Lamar about as well as I have. And Lamar is really, really. a non-confrontational person. And when I spoke to him Monday night, he said to me, everybody's saying I got a problem with Munkin. I don't really have a problem with Munkin.

I don't know where that comes from. And he said, and then I hear I've got a problem with Harbs and I don't have a problem with Harbs. I don't know where that comes from. we got to make changes probably but that's that's probably more for you and e this is a you problem it is a problem and it's a you problem I love a press conference that we actually learn things from yeah I believe all that but that's also like how does a non-confrontational person try to get someone fired

not that they're trying but like if they were to think that that was a good idea that be how it would be done. And yet, of course, I believe him. And Todd Monkin has talked about this after the fact, too. I don't think that, like, he had a problem, but he probably recognized that it was time. And I, the biggest news I took from this entire press conference is that Bashadi just made it very clear, like, this is the best job in the league because we have Lamar

Jackson. Yeah. We are planning to continue to have Lamar Jackson. We want to have Lamar Jackson. In fact, Eric DeCost. said that he's been texting, you know, Lamar with how each head coaching interview has gone. And I think Bashati might have said something like, hey, when they call me up to meet from Florida to go meet like who's maybe going to be their choice, you know, to meet the head coach.

Like, I want you to get on that plane too and go meet him. So I think they're making it very clear, not that they're choosing anyone in the divorce, but how important Lamar Jackson is to this entire process in this organization. Yeah, and maximizing him. It's just exactly what we talked about with the Steelers job. What gives you the biggest edge? Where are your competitive advantages over the rest of the league? It's a quarterback, very quite clearly and bluntly.

Where else can you develop an advantage to maximize than that competitive advantage? You need to have a coach who gives Lamar Jackson a greater edge. It's a similar thing when we're talking about Justin Herbert. Just because he can do all the things doesn't mean it should always fall. directly on you have to do something insane and incredible and improbable in order to get us through this next phase of contention. No, it should never be that way, ever. And I'll be fascinated to see. For some reason, because it's the Ravens, I was just expecting like these like really exciting names or somehow it would be different. And then they,

you see like the graphic that's like interviewed Matt Nagy. And I'm like, okay, come on, Ravens. You can do better. But then I look at the list. Okay, it's really long. Joe Brady, Brian Flores. I think it's one of only two for Flores. Maybe the only one. Vance Joseph, Cliff Kingsbury. That was another. And I was like, yeah.

Clint Kubiak, Mike McDaniel, Jesse Minter, Matt Nagy, Jim Schwartz. That's interesting. He also interviewed for the Brown's job and they want to keep him, if they don't get him as head coach, maybe as coordinator. Kevin Stefanski, would be interesting if he moved and stayed in the same division. Anthony Weaver and then Davis Webb, who is the Bronwyn. Broncos quarterback's coach. One thing I think is really important to point out with this. That's a long list, like 12, 13 names. They're not even meeting in person now. It's not allowed if you

have a job. Some of them are in person. I shouldn't say that. If these coaches don't have jobs. If you're unemployed. If you're unemployed, you can go meet in person. But many of these coaches are still under contract. And so they're not in person. So it depends on the coach. But I think that's important to note. You can only start meeting in person with the employed coaches like Jesse Minter, for instance, starting next week. And so they have purposefully kind of slowed down this process, which I think is really healthy if you've, and I was kind of wondering, I was like, this is interesting how, not like it's gone slow, but now that there's nine teams out there, a lot of the same name,

like, it's going to be an interesting game of like chicken of like, well, we better move first. You know what I mean? But you don't want to move too fast because maybe there's a, other guys out there. Like Tomlin just, in theory, became available. Not that I think he's going to be looking for a job, but yeah. And I think that's why if you're a team that was maybe considered to be a somewhat appealing opening at the start of all of this carousel,

but now you are very far down the ladder because two really, really great infrastructural jobs in the Steelers and the Ravens came open. And, you know, there's other jobs that maybe look appealing because they have a quarterback or because they've got the right person in place at GM or whatever. And now you're like, oh, shoot, like I might miss my number one candidate. He might go somewhere else or I might have to get into a bidding war. That's why I think, Greg, I need it to happen. I need a trade to happen.

That's why I think there could be a trade. If there's going to be a trade, who else would it be? Well, now, Tomlin is another candidate for trade. I should have pointed out because he retired or just stepped away, they essentially own his contractual rights. It's the exact same situation that Sean Payton had a couple years ago. And the Broncos have to give up pretty decent compensation. to get Sean Peyton, which is why, by the way,

I think that he wasn't the number one pick for Denver was that was kind of a downside to hiring Sean Payton when they had an option to possibly hire Domeco Ryan's or Dan Quinn in that cycle. But you don't have to give up any picks for those. You'd have to do that for Mike Talman. You'd have to do that for Matt Lafleur. Is there someone else I'm missing?

I'm going through really quickly in my brain right now. I don't know that I could think of someone who would be a more attractive, like potential. Or even just at all tradable. could really happen. He might, he could be actually tradable, but this got on my radar because now this is not going to happen. Let me be clear to the listener that this one happened. But it got on my radar because last week, Sean McVeigh was joking about, and he's not joking, but he was joking about how they, he got some trade, some trade calls, like some

requests, like some questions about, you know, this is not going to happen. He's, you know, he'll be the Rams coach until he decides he's done coaching. But that got my radar up that teams are actually thinking about this in ways where I think they should be thinking about this. It's the same going into the trade deadline for players on the final year of their contract if they have not been extended by the team yet. You should absolutely be thinking about this organizationally the same way you think about a star player. Because I know it's the players and we agree on that, but you know, I love coaching. And this to me is one of the greatest advantages an organization can have is finding the right coach. And an executive who's been doing that a long time told me once

that the best decision they ever made was to find the correct coach who's been at the organization for a long time because that means they never have to do it again. And that's kind of the point is all of this turnover continuity. I haven't bought a car in 10 years. I just don't want to deal with the whole process. And you and Patrick have the same car and it's adorable. But the thing that is such an advantage and will be

over the next two seasons, especially in this league, is continuity. It's going to become an advantage and a weapon for these teams who have a head start over nine teams that are missing a head coach right now. You, yeah, as you're talking, I get so fired up. I'm like, if Kevin O'Connell hadn't just resigned in Minnesota, he might have been an interesting one. There's always some drama with the Vikings there is right now

because they don't know if Brian Flores is going to be back. In fact, while we're here, yeah, I wasn't even going there. Pro. And we have a lot still on this rundown. And I've actually been updated to some breaking news that Stephen, the friend of general manager, John Spitech, of the Raiders, who had some input that he really wanted John Spitech at the Combine to get the quarterback position right this year,

is actually in the building here already, because, you know, I'm going to show them around a little bit afterwards. And who knows, maybe the Raiders will trade for a head coach. By the way, John Spitech, if he's listening out there, even though you... You really let Stephen down, John. You did what I wanted you to do was to get Gino Smith. And Stephen, the whole year was like, Jesus going to suck, Juno sucks.

And you know what? It wasn't a great year, I got to admit. Let's talk about what the Vikings head coach, Kevin O'Connell, said at his press conference today, asked about the quarterback situation and JJ McCarthy. But no, I definitely want a competitive situation in that room because I ultimately think that's what will make not only the starter, but the next guy and the next guy.

We've learned we've got to get a lot of guys ready to play. And we've got to do it with a responsibility of being the best version of our offense. And the quarterback has a huge role in helping us do that. They asked this a couple different ways. I believe Questi was involved in that press conference too. And they just made it very clear that they're open at quarterback. Yeah. Wonder if Aaron Rogers would.

Which it sounds like they were last off season, just far less open about that. Fair. Fair. But now I think they've made it obvious, which I found interesting because I didn't know that they were necessarily going to handle it that way this offseason. But they're kind of letting J.J. McCarthy know he's not necessarily the weak one starting quarterback. But we'll see. We haven't hit the Matt Ryan news. Matt Ryan was hired as the team president of the Atlanta Falcons.

His qualifications are that he once was the quarterback of the Atlanta Falcons. and he looks good in a suit. No, I'm just kidding. Let's listen to Arthur Blank talking about Matt Ryan's new role. We couldn't be happier having Matt back in the position that he will. He is at now, which is the president of football. Basically, that means everything between football and grass he is responsible for. Hell, I kind of love that title.

Can someone say that about me? I would love that. Everything between the football and grass. That's, it's a lot. I love it. I'm a little skeptical just because, you know, what qualifications does he really have? But in Arthur Blank, you know, sometimes this happens. You want to bring back like your old glory.

But also, you know, Matt Ryan seems like a smart, capable person. And I like the fact that unlike Tom Brady and Stephen's Raiders, he's not just, you know, moonlighting every once in a while. Like, oh, yeah, I'll run an NFL team as my seventh different job. job. He quit CBS. This is going to be his main job. And he emphasized over and over in this press conference to the point where you almost are like, all right, you're protesting a little too much, that he will not be involved in like the picking of the players and the football decisions.

That's going to be the GM's job and the coach's job. But he is going to be the one ultimately that's picking the GM and helping the coach. And he just said his job will be to be of service to them in whatever. way a boss is of service. So I talked to someone last week who had previously worked in Atlanta for a really long time and was there when Matt Ryan was previously there playing as a player. And the thing that this person said was that for however mysterious this job and its description and its actual tangible role is, the one thing that can be assured about Matt Ryan

is that he is no BS and he is not afraid to speak up, which that person said has been a problem in Atlanta for a long time. And so to call out things that need to be changed, to make fixes or to seek problem solving in ways that are maybe a little bit more direct, I think that that could be a benefit, especially if it's somebody with the gravitas of the greatest quarterback, really, or one of the greatest quarterbacks in franchise history, to have that sort of pull. This also means, to me, that Ian Cunningham is the favorite for that GM role, Ian Cunningham and Ryan Poles have worked closely together, obviously for years.

Ryan Poles and Matt Ryan have a very, very good relationship. There's been some reporting out there that Ryan Poles has been sort of an ear to bend for Matt Ryan. When Matt Ryan's talking about the GM process and figuring out, you know, problem solving and correcting that alignment between head coach and general manager. So we'll see. I still don't like the fact that it's all these search firms and stuff that's in it. Well, it sounds like they knew exactly what they were going to finish in the end. I'm just curious.

I do like that point, though, that here is a man, Matt Ryan, maybe the only one that can actually be real with the billionaire owner. Yeah. Tell them what's the head. Yeah. All right. We're going to have to fire through a lot of these. Let it rip. Let it.

We'll speed round it up. John Harbaugh. I wouldn't say it's quieted down, but it hasn't been like as crazy. Atlanta announced the interview with John Harbaugh. Now, it wasn't in person, but they announced the interview with him. He also reportedly broke bread with the Giants, including Chris Mara, who, if you were reading the New York tabloids, like 20 years ago, at one point was trying to become the Giants GM. And then his own dad essentially said, no, you can't become the Giants.

You are not serious people. Because the other owner was like, no, I'm not. letting you hire your son to be the GM. And now, you know, John Mara is unfortunately, like, having a cancer battle publicly. And Chris Mara is suddenly kind of brought into this situation. It is very cinematic, I guess, would be the word. I don't know what the word would be. But it sounds like a movie that he's now becoming a big part of this process. And yeah, he broke bread with John Harbaugh. Your colleague, Diana Rossini, reported that the Titans, the John, And the Titans are kind of the three leaders in the clubhouse for John Harbaugh.

Yeah. Is there one you would want to see out of those three? Well, I can understand specifically why the Titans and the Giants are wanting John Harbaugh because they need complete infrastructural overhaul. They need somebody to set a foundation. I don't think, this might be an unpopular comment or opinion. I don't think John Harbaugh gives you a scheme advantage. I don't think he gives you an advantage in the way that a lot of these teams are looking for an

advantage. but there's a lot of teams that aren't even at the level yet where they should or can look for that type of advantage because there's so much work to be done on an organizational level to set the actual pillars and foundation and different DNA strands of an actual, like, what football is and how football happens in these buildings. And someone like John Harbaugh will obviously know how to do that.

Yeah. And I, you know, from what we've heard, he's a little more involved in like the defensive. He's very hands-on too, and he's very, meticulous about what he wants. And so teams that are rudderless really need that. And I think that's the Giants and I think that's the Titans. By the way, Matt Ryan also was very

supportive of Michael Penick, saying he was a big fan of Mike, as he said. And we're going to support him however we can for what that's worth. So we'll see where Harbaugh goes. Lafleur, I think we've kind of hit that, yes, they're trying to work on a new deal, but that needs to

still be finished. So more in this space, we'll keep an eye. on that. Just think about it. Yes, absolutely. But I'm thinking about it the way I think about it with players. And ladies, if he wanted to, he would. Right? Like, if you wanted to extend the guy, you would have extended him already. So there's a hang up happening in the middle here. And at the beginning of the year, there was a lot of confidence coming into that building that this would happen and this would unfold despite the layers of the new team president of policy. And Brian Gutakins, there might be some questions. Or maybe they're just trying to kick a can down to see what kind of trade compensation they could be offered. What do you think about this from Denny Carter on Blue Sky that he's worried that LaFleur might

have like a barber addiction, that he gets his haircut, he gets that fade every 48 hours and like it's like a shape up at halftime and everything like that's getting in the way of his coaching because it is always like incredibly fresh. What about the eyebrows? How are those being him? He is immaculately groomed. I want to ask. I don't really have a comment on David Blow as the new Washington offensive coordinator.

But I just wanted to point out that David Blow, the man who, you know, once started a Thanksgiving game. That's how I remember him. And our friend, our friend Mark Sessler, you know, the Blowhard. The Blow Hard. Back in the day, that's why I'm chuckling. He had a newsletter. He is now running the Washington offense. And Dan Quinn, it kind of made it clear.

Like, he's still very young, David Blow. But he lost some good coordinators. in young coaches when he was in Atlanta, when Kyle Shanahan left him, and he took Mike McDaniel and whatnot with him. And he saw David Blow potentially getting an interview in Detroit. And he was like, no, I don't want to lose the next young hot shot. So David Blow is in charge of the Jaden Daniels experience in 2026. You ready?

I'm so ready. Member of the athletics, 50 under 40 last year. Oh, look at that. Quarterbacks coach of the Washington commanders a year ago. The Titans have interviewed 18 candidates. Is that too much? It feels like too much. Nothing tells me you know what you're doing.

I mean, the Ravens, to be fair, I just listed off, I think, 13 or 14 for the Ravens. 14 of them have been previous head coaches. So it seems like they have a type. Like, they're the only ones that, like, they interviewed Jonathan Gannon. They're interviewing Brian Daible. I feel like it's all information gathering. You're not losing much. How do we do this?

Well, just... Number one question. I guess you just never know. know what's going to pop up. I mentioned Mike McDaniels had five head coaching interviews. Kevin Stafanskys had six head coaching interviews. Can you imagine being Kevin Stafansky where like you, you know, you get fired or whatever? And like you're like the bell of the coaching market ball, right?

You're like, you've just edged out Jesse Minter because you're an offensive guy too. And you've edged out like Jeff Halfley, who's like a hot name as well. And then like, then John Harbaugh is like, oh, also. I'm coming into the job market. And then you're like, okay, I guess I'm like a lower. And then Mike Tomlin's like, hold my beer, everybody. I'm coming into the job and TV market. So now you're standing sort of, you know, you're standing in the side of the dance hall.

Nobody's asking you to dance. Mike McCarthy also in the mix a little bit. I think Mike McCarthy would be a good hire for the Tennessee Titans. I really do. I've had that take for a while. Third time around. The Dolphins hired John Eric Sullivan at GM. We didn't hit that.

the former Packers staffer. So they decide it's more important to just get the GM in place. Maybe he can deliver Matt Lafleur. That would be exciting. Why is Jeff Hathley such a popular candidate? I'm doing the thing that people do on social media where they're kind of being disingenuous.

And they're like, I'm just asking an honest question. But I am kind of curious. Why is he such a popular candidate? You know what? I was curious about this entering the season. I talked to my colleague, Matt Schneider. over who covers the Packers as a great job for the athletic and he says that Jeff Hathley's a candidate a really popular name A because people like his scheme but

then also because players really respond to him like he has a way a teaching progression and a way of connecting with players that really resonates he is you know somebody who they could really see taking a macro look at an organization it was really it's been really striking to people within the organization too I almost wonder too, and this is just me thinking, you know, on the fly wondering here, I almost wonder if there's some concern for the Packers, it's like, well, if we extend, what if we extend Matt LaFleur this amount, you know, pay him this much, there's also a possibility we lose Jeff Halfley. That's a, he's a person they, that building does not want to lose. I do know that. So I wonder

if that's weighing into some of the contract math here. From the outside looking in, I would say he, his Packers defense haven't performed over expectations. They've just performed at expectations. They've been fine. That's just from the outside looking in, like based on the talent that they have. Maybe they did.

Maybe they were a little better last year than you would have expected, but nothing crazy. And then this year, they were about where you would expect with Parsons and the fact that it collapsed so badly, you know, wasn't great for him. But I would say, he wasn't great at BC either.

I would say for the same reasons, though, that he is a popular candidate is similar reasons that like a Chris Shula, for example, whose defense has greatness in it at times, but it's been just okay for a lot of the last several weeks and maybe hasn't performed even up to their expectations heading into the season. It's the way that they connect with players,

the way that they teach, the way that Shula obviously has the Shula name as well and the McVeigh thing, which is helpful. Jeff Hathley has a little floor bump, which is helpful. So it's one of those things. There's a lot of layers to it that make somebody a pop. popular Canada. I think there's substance to both of those as well. It's not just sort of style points or whether or not their defense is performed. I get it, but you want to see, you want to see

that. But you're right. That's not it. Show Greg something. Yeah. To be fair, Mike Rable's one year as a defensive coordinator in the NFL, he had like the worst defense in the NFL. And he's turned out to be a great head coach. While we're on Bears in the Packers, or Packers, rather, Let's actually go back all the way to Sunday and let's listen to one of my favorite moments of the entire weekend, which will partly be bleeped out. We'll actually hear Ben Johnson in the locker room

and then you'll hear him asked about what happened in the locker room the following day. There's a rivalry that exists between these two teams, something that I fully recognize and I'm a part of. And yeah, I mean, there's some, I just, I don't like that team. So George and I have talked and we're on the same page. I love it. We need more of this.

I love this. Real hate. Real hate. I love it. You know what? My favorite thing is so that clip goes viral. Kudos to the Bears social media team for like not editing that part out at all. You know, they bleeped it obviously, but they didn't edit it out in their little postgame clip.

My favorite thing about that entire sequence is when Ben, Ben Johnson has his press conference the next day, that of course, all the beat writers have seen it. So the beat writers are like, well, did you mean what you said? Right. And I'm like, look at the man. Of course he meant what he said. Look at him in that moment.

Like, he's saying it with his entire chest. Not only that, but he was like, I actually talked with ownership about him. And they say, they say, he also said the packers too. Like, forget about it. All right, we've done it. We've gone all around the league. We've talked about coaches. I like that the Browns have been interviewing guys that aren't interviewing elsewhere.

I really actually mean that. Grant Udinski, the Jaguar. Grant Udinski's. Who's your guy with the Rams? Nate. Nate Shieldhouse. Nate Shield House. A rising star might be paired with Chris Shula.

You know, our guy from the UK, the Seahawks defensive coordinator. Haddon Dirty. Add and Dirty. Henry Hotson actually sent me a voice memo of how to say his name. now I probably still butchered it. Dan Pitcher, the Bengals offensive coordinator. Like Tommy Reese got an interview there, the offensive coordinator with the Browns last year. Reese, Reese got an OC interview last year, too.

The thing I love, I have a, I did a story when I still worked back at the Charlotte Observer on F.A. Obata, who was the first, like, success story of the International Pathways program. And I went out to England. And I spent some time with the English football team, American football team there. and all of those guys still play on the same team and odd and dirty comes out of there. And they all just were at. They traveled overseas this season

to watch him coach in the Seahawks Rams game. How cool is that? That is badass. And yeah, there's a lot of connections. Actually, our friend from London, Will Gavin, will be flying back across. Don't you mean? Viral sensation.

His viralness. Will Gavin, who I'll be working with at the Super Bowl on Talk Sport for the Super Bowl. I was flying back over for this divisional round game, 49ers Seahawks. So I'm excited for that. I'm excited for this weekend. I'm glad we got this show in,

and I hope everyone that's listening, like we love this type of season. Just figuring out and connecting all the dots. Obviously, we don't love that Mike Tomlin lost his job, but it's pretty cool that he got to do it on his terms. And he's going to be beloved there forever. I talked about some of the media people who are ready for him to go, like a Dave Damashek.

I feel like Steelers fans, and Jared Bailey's another one, John Ledyard, like, they're all Steelers fans in the media. They were kind of ready for him to go, but the real hardcore fans will love Tomlin, like my buddy Anthony Jessen, like, forever. Like, that is like a member of his family. And the fact that he kind of went out his way with another winning record and then just said like, see you later.

One of one, Mike Tomlin. All right, we will be back. our next show will be going up Thursday morning. It's a mega preview. Ali Connolly's joining us. You're going to be there. Patrick is there. And then every year around this time, we bring on Seth Payne for the Seth Head.

Seth Payne, big time Texans guy. We'll be talking Texans. Patriots will go through all the games. We'll see you then. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.