NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Mina Kimes on Herbert's Terminator Night and Kyren Williams Joins the Show!

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by ESPN's Mina Kimes to recap the Broncos and Chargers facing off on Thursday Night Football. Gregg and Mina start the show with a look at how Justin Herbert (02:28) and Bo Nix performed (11:00), followed by discussions about NFL history that was made (16:40) and the path to the playoffs for the Chargers (21:50) and Broncos (26:30). After the break, Gregg and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic are joined by Rams RB and Walter Payton Man of the Year nominee Kyren Williams (35:06).  Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Herbert from the right hash, McConkey in motion, settles in the slot right. Herbert, looking to throw, and now shovel passes has Haskins. Haskins on his horse. 20 to the 10, to the 5 to the end zone. Touchdown! Chargers! Hassan Haskins with some Wolverine magic. and back to his college days when he rushed for 20 touchdowns under Jim Arbaugh. Somebody forgot to tell Justin Herbert his ankles hurt. That was our friend Matt Money Smith and our friend of me, Daniel Jeremiah, on KYSR. Yes, the Chargers with a second half comeback.

Great performance by Justin Herbert puts it away 34 to 27. Welcome to NFL Daily presented by Uber Eats. We start the show with friends on the radio, and now we welcome one of my friends, one of my favorites in the business. Mina Kimes of the Mina Kimes show featuring Lenny and many other programs we can get to later. Thank you, Mina, for giving me and giving the show some good luck, some juice this Chargers Broncos game. Yeah, this was a good game.

I think at one point, maybe in the first half, actually. Actually, I texted you. This is actually fun? Yes. I don't know why I didn't think it would be, you know, I guess coming off of the dud that the Chargers put up last week against Tampa. And even though Denver won, it didn't look great against Indianapolis. Bo Nix had a tough performance.

So I was a little bit underwhelmed headed into this. But, I mean, you know, Stefan Voice, this game had everything. It even had a free kick, which I feel like we could spend, They're all 30 minutes just talking about that. Yes, we should, and we will get to that. And as great a topic, it was for Blue Sky and just a bizarre moment. It was the first free kick since 1976. So most of the people listening and watching were not alive for the last one.

It actually was a key moment of the game, kind of a mistake by Sean Payton gave the Chargers a chance for that free kick. And then a penalty did as well. We'll get into that more, but that was three free points right before halftime that absolutely made a difference. But I think we just have to start with our guy Herbo because we thought he came into this game with an ankle injury. I'm sure he did, but his legs were a huge part of the story. Before he took about negative 20 yards during that weird final sequence where they're trying to run out the clock, he had over 45 yards rushing in really key moments of the game and his mobility. on some of the throws he made just reminded us of why we love Justin Herbert

and not to get too weird about it, but it's like one team had a great quarterback having one of the best games of his season and the other team had a rookie quarterback and it really did feel like a difference on a night where these two teams look pretty even otherwise. Yeah, it impacted how the two coaches approach the game and we can get to the fourth down decision at the end,

but overall it was a very conservative game plan for Denver unsurprisingly, that's how they've approached a lot of the season, but so many throws behind the line of scrimmage in this one for Bo Nix. Whereas with the Chargers, you know, they, I think at one point had a play action rate of

almost 60%, which I love because it was like Greg Roman was like, wait, I don't have to run the ball. I can just keep calling play action over and over and over. And it was working, but it was also working, Greg, not because the linebackers were fooled. There was a point in this game, not even like pretty early the second half where the Denver defense was clearly, like, they were like,

oh, he's not handing this off. But Herbert was using that mobility you talked about to evade the rush on play action, including on the final touchdown. Like a lot of those play action passes were not him in a Nixian pristine pocket. It was him evading pressure as he so often does and getting off really difficult passes. Yeah, I thought I thought his health, his relative mobility ended up being such a huge part of this game because the Broncos ended up only pressuring him on 30% of their dropbacks. They only blitz them according to next gen stats, 27.8%. And that's because when they did blitz him, sometimes you're playing into his hands. And that happened in their first meeting where it was more long, slow drives. But he's so smart. And they're well coached. And he went six for six

for over 100 yards against the blitz. And it made Vance Joseph back off for a lot of the game. And I thought the pass protection really held up. This was a great game for the Chargers offensive line, which to me has been up and down. It's been flat out bad in the running game. And it wasn't great tonight, and they didn't try to run that much.

But they at least did what they did earlier in the season where they popped one big one late with Gus Edwards. And they really protected Herbert well when it was four-man rushes. And for the most part, he did find enough open. receivers. We got our guy Ladd going crazy. Josh Palmer made a couple of plays, and they made an 11-point comeback. They were down 24 to 13 in this game. That was not a game that the charges would have won, I think, at any other point in the Justin Herbert era. The receiving chart for both of these teams is hilarious because I think you and I both follow the NFL pretty closely. You

host an NFL daily podcast. There's guys I haven't heard of. Hand up on both these teams. Like, who were catching passes. Tucker Fisk, anyone on the Chargers? Did you know? Was that a, I'm not, I just stone spark by this point I'm aware of. These are guys that we learned in like the last two weeks or basically where they've had to come up, which is true with this team like on both sides of the ball. It's a little wild. But neither side I thought had a real edge in terms. I mean, Broncos have Cortland Sutton, who's very different style of player from Ladd McConkey. I would maybe put them, have them comparable in terms of like usefulness, though, obviously very

different players. But beyond that, it's been slim pickens for both of these guys. I do want to go back to the Herbert playmaking and mobility thing, though, because you know, I've always really been a huge fan of Herbert's games, a game, pardon me. I am

a Herbert defender, even during the great Herbert II wars of 2022. Not everyone survived. You know, there's some bodies But even miss my love for his game, while I always believed in him in his unbelievable talent and his processing, as you said, watching him at some point, it feels like you're like watching a football terminator going like one, two, three, four, boom, boom, boom.

There have been moments, and I felt this way at times last year, like where I just wanted him to go into effort mode and be a bit more of a playmaker because he's such an incredible athlete. He's gigantic and he's fast. And that's one thing I really just loved about this performance of his is I felt like this is the Herbert that maybe some of us have been waiting for for a while. Ooh, that's a good call because the situation of the game, how much they needed it. And we can finish with all the playoff probabilities. But the Broncos missed the chance to clinch their playoffs. And they could be sweating out depending on some other results.

And the chargers are now really in the driver's seat. They only need one more win or potentially even could get. get in this weekend if they get a bunch of losses. I totally agree because they're trailing in this game and the passing game is okay, but it's a little erratic. And it felt a little Mahomesian that he ran when he absolutely needed to run. And they got fortunate. They had a couple penalties, one on a late hit on Herbert, but that was after he ran. If I'm right, which sometimes that happens. So he helped force that. And then another, another on just a horse collar on what would have been a sack, which was a big play in this

game. But he absolutely went into effort mode. Let's actually listen to our friend Matt Money Smith again on the go-ahead touchdown. Edwards in the backfield, Darius Davis in motion. Herbert to throw. Pump fakes. And now to the end zone. Caught touchdown. Chargers. Darius Davis. A whole shot from Justin Herbert, left sideline to the end zone. 20 yards. Ooh, that was so sweet. Can you, I just want to hear Me and a Kimes cook on that play

because that was kind of the play that put this game over the top for him. Yeah, it was supposed to be a mesh concept. I think McConkey was running because they had hit him on the overs and the crossers a couple times. And immediate pressure forces Herbert off of his spot.

So he's rolling left. And this is so important to emphasize the difficulty, the physical difficulty. of what he did going full speed to his left with a defender bearing down on him sort of half flipping his hips and then hitting that whole shot a teardrop of a throw

a perfect pass over another defender that is like a point zero zero five level of difficulty throw I was so glad they showed it from the end zone view immediately after because you kind of you could see that right when it happened but as with so many Herbert throws you really have to see the end zone view to appreciate how difficult it is

what he does. And it was unbelievable. That's one of the best throws. I mean, I've seen him make him, you know, he's made some of the craziest throws of the last five years. But I would put that up there with a lot of his best throws. Yeah. And considering the situation, this is one of the best, you know, that was one of the, I think that was the biggest play of the game. I think this was the biggest moment of their season thus far. To me, as I wouldn't call myself a Chargers fan, but I went from Philip Rivers to Justin Herbert. I'm always sky. kind of pulling for them as kind of one of my teams that this felt like a game they wouldn't have won in the past and and the first real moment where it's like yeah it's different they're building

something the jim harbott chargers are just a little different it's only their second win against a winning team and the only other one was against denver these two teams have been scheduled merchants they were combined two and ten i saw the amazon graphic against winning teams which is crazy and and now it's it's three and eleven i guess and two of those are you know against each other so So I know they have more to do, but I just think there was like a toughness and an intelligence to the play calling on both sides of the ball. Because you mentioned not knowing the receivers. And both these offensive coaches are great, but one of them has Justin Herbert to work with. And the other has a rookie quarterback who's working through it.

What do you think about Bo Nix's performance? Because it's funny, it's such a perfect example of box score scouting because they're, lines are very similar. You know, Nick's threw nine more passes for less yards, 29 for 40, but he has two touchdowns. Like, you know, if you care about quarterback rating and completion percentage, he's off the charts with that

tonight. And Herbert was similar, except he's the one that actually made the one big mistake in the game. He had an interception when they were trying to go go score. And it was a great, great defensive play, but he ends up with 284 and two touchdown. So I thought Nick's, you know, was a conservative game plan? Like, how did you think, though, he played within

that game plan and beyond it? You know, in the first half, there was a point where I think when they were up, they had 21 points, and I posted this on Blue Sky. He had something like 2.1 air yards per attempt. And I guess I didn't mean that as Nick Slander actually meant it as a, to be complimentary of the Broncos offense. Because at that point, Greg, I was feeling like certainly that the Broncos were under control, but I also felt like Sean Payton was calling a hell of a game. I mean, that first drive, they just ran it down there. throats, which has been a vulnerability for this Chargers defense. Their worst defensive performances have been against teams that could run the ball well against them. Tampa recently,

Baltimore, two very good rushing teams come to mind. And Denver's been, you know, a little bit up and down the run game. But at that point, I thought, oh, okay, they're kind of following the formula for that. And I thought Mick Nicks, he didn't make any super high degree of difficulty throws, but as he has all year, he made some good throws on the move. That's definitely when he's best, Peyton leans into that. He made good decisions. There were a couple times in the first half where he turned down covered throws and I thought it was the right call. And you had checkdowns and swing passes that were going for significant yardage. The Mims swing, I think, was the one where it was a great play call from Peyton where he came across in motion. I think it went for like

50 plus yards or whatever. But, um, 54. And that, and that was such a like typical sequence. They had just picked up a third and long on a dump off. Like the third, their third and long. their third and mediums were so easy for them against this Chargers defense, which is short a number of players. And then I think what happened in the second half, there was a few things. I do think they kind of abandoned the run a little bit at times, particularly in the third quarter. I thought Minter started turning up the heat, and that's when you kind of saw a little bit more of the rookie come out, some, you know, hesitation, a couple misses here and there. And those are the moments when a veteran quarterback, certainly one of Herbert's caliber,

can kind of make the plays rather than just executing the offense. And he wasn't able to do that. But as we've said, he's a rookie quarterback. Now, are we being like 26% nicer because we're so fearful of Broncos' Twitter? I mean, Bronco's blue sky. I think they're fine. They're cool. But, yeah.

The Bowdo Nix Brigade is going to calm down a little bit. after the last couple weeks just because I think last week was his worst game since September, maybe his worst game of the season. And tonight, he was fine, but he just, they needed more. And you're absolutely right to point out that he's throwing the ball to Lucas Kroll and who was Watson. You're right. There were some crazy name, Nate Atkins. Nate Atkins is the one of us. Yeah, there was, there was not playing with a full deck either. So it was like a lot of, another Broncos running back. They have like 500 running backs. I'm sorry, Blake Watson. Yeah, that was the guy who was thinking, but Blake Watson.

who was putting a little bit of fullback, a little bit of running back. And tonight was a reminder to me that their offense, while efficient, is not good enough to totally expose a belief, like what is a really banged up and beleaguered Chargers defense that I think is vulnerable. And you saw that in the first half. They were pretty dominant in the first half. I'm pretty shocked that they only ended up with 27 points in this game the way that it started. Yeah.

I don't know if like say they had to run the ball more and maybe if Nix had hit on a couple of throws I don't know if the result would have been that different because Justin Herbert just kind of went into Terminator mode in the second half but I didn't come out of this just go to your mode next question whether I'm

I didn't come out of this with like a reduced opinion of him I just kind of felt like water is finding his level a little bit in terms of him being a rookie and being one who has executed this offense competently but if you're gonna let me put it this way

as we sort of turn our eyes towards the playoffs I don't have an expectation that he is going to have some kind of a linear progression to ascend to new heights I think that would have to come probably the following season right and

this performance was a very typical Beau Nix performance. The biggest difference between this year's Broncos and last year as Broncos, who was it that sent that tweet out in terms of their offensive stats were so similar as last year? Who was it? Do you remember? Oh, yeah, I saw the post you're talking about. Ian Hartee. I just wanted to give him credit. The offensive numbers were so similar. The difference is the defense has been fantastic this year and it just wasn't tonight. They weren't consistent enough. They're thinner in the secondary, you know, they, they, you have Sertan, but without their starting combination,

they're thinner in the secondary and the chargers were able to take advantage of it more. Should we talk a little about the free kick? Because, yeah, this is, this is wild stuff. It really reminded me of the Doug Flutie drop kick, which I happen to be watching live, so I remember it well, but not much of, you know, America was because it was a week 18-17 game for a Patriots team that wasn't playing for anything. because they had already clinched everything, and it was late in the fourth quarter at like a 1 p.m. game.

This was prime time, and it was the first thing, you know, in a meaningful game, it helped swing the game. And it was the first time most of us have ever seen anything like it. What was the experience like for you? I was shocked. When they broached the possibility, I was like, I can't, what? Like, I can't believe this is happening. I want to remember where I was in this moment.

to see history being made. I was relieved that it was Dicker, who's a really good kicker, right? Because it introduced the possibility to actually make it. Because it was 57 yards, correct? So it's a very difficult kick. And you don't practice that as a kicker.

So it wouldn't just feel weird that there's no one in front of you? I guess I should set up what a free kick even is because I had to go back to school to it On the, you know, when someone punts the ball, when you call for a fair catch, or if there's a penalty, which was in this case, where they didn't allow you to have the fair catch, you have the option to kick the ball, and you could drop kick it as well, but, you know, that's not a thing that happens anymore. You have the option to kick the ball with no, no field goal. blocking team trying to stop you. They have to be 10 yards away. Now, in theory, you could do that any time of the game that you want. You could do it on first down early in the game, but it would make

no sense. So it really only comes up in situations on the last play of the half or right at the end of the half. And the Broncos had some weird play calling where they weren't really trying to score at the end of the second quarter. And they certainly weren't thinking about this scenario. And then they threw and they had an incomplete. And Harbaugh smartly took a time out to possibly set up this punt return. I don't know if he was thinking about the free kick, but suddenly the Broncos are punting. And even as it's happening, I'm thinking, oh, this is a free kick chance, but they're going to be way back. It would be like a 65, 70 yard kick. It ends up being a penalty on the Broncos. It sets Dicker up. Let's listen once again to Matt Money Smith. This is wild. Right on top of the bolt logo.

You got to cover it, right? So Dicker for three. And this kick is up. And it is. And it. It is good. How about that? A free kick field goal for Cam Dicker from 57 yards. All of his teammates rushed the field to celebrate eight seconds left on a punt and the Chargers get three out of it. Man, that was good from 70 or so. I mean, that was weird.

I feel like, I know he's been, he was probably an all pro last year. I can't remember who was first team and second team. But I feel like all his kicks are always like split the middle, too. He's like very directionally accurate. He also was, I didn't notice this in the moment because I was immediately taking to social media. He was really chill about it. I'd be losing my mind. Like, that's NFL history.

As a kicker, do you even consider that possibility? Does it even something you think might happen to you? The other thing, so while I was, while this happened, I was on the Wikipedia page for the fair catch roll because I just wanted to revisit the history of it. And Curly Lambeau looks identical to Ladd-Wa-Conkie. Oh, wow. Pull that up, yeah. I love that.

I love that the record for the longest free kick previously was by Paul Horning, which not many people may know Paul Horning's name, but he was probably the biggest star in the history of the NFL. At the time that he played, he won the Heisman and was the best player in the league, Vinsel Barty famously said he's the best player ever. He would have been the equivalent of if Tim Tebow actually was the best player in the NFL, that was Paul Hornig. I mean, what a guy that he kicked a 52-yard field go back then.

I mean, adjusting for inflation, that's like 75. That's outrageous. And he was leading the league in touchdowns at the time, too. But for it to happen, it really touched like a football dork bone for a lot of us. And you could hear it with DJ. Daniel Jeremiah was just laughing with absolute glee. That's how I felt, too. I didn't know Paul Horner was a kicker

Oh yeah That was what made him crazy Like he would lead the league in points every year Because he was a badass kicker And would score all their touchdowns Even if he had like a vaguely Disappointing career Even though he was a Hall of Famer

It was like one of those Where like people thought he'd be the grass Anyways I will Absolutely shut up now What do you think about The Chargers moving forward They finished with a couple easy games

on paper. They're in Foxborough. Not a total gimmie, but they should win that. And then they're in Las Vegas for the last game. They only need to win one of those two games to make the playoffs. And because of the tiebreaker, now they're in a good position to possibly be ahead of Denver for the six seed, which we have to see how it all plays out, but that might mean you avoid Buffalo. That would be nice. I think you would want to play for that. Do you think they have enough? Because

you talked about not knowing some of the past catchers. What about this secondary? Like, what about this defense? It's pretty wild who they're putting out there right now. I really don't like them against teams that can run the football like Buffalo at Baltimore can. But when you throw those out, you're looking at a lot of teams. I mean, the Kansas City is an efficient running game at that point.

But Denver, just saw Pittsburgh, Houston. I think he had a shot. all three of those games, I mean, you know, just structurally. And then the other thing, like, again, you're, this game reminded you, like, if you have one of those dudes, you can win any game. That sounds like such a simplistic reduction of what we just saw. So much happened. Yeah, but it's true.

It's true. It is true. That's what happened. And a good coaching staff, because he has been that dude before and he's not always been healthy, but I think that's held them back. And even though the Chargers defense is on a downward slope, and we had a disagreement before the season. We put it on the line of whether they would finish top 20 in DVOA. They will fall further. They're about ninth going into this game. They'll fall down to like 11th or whatever, but they're fine. But they're getting worse. There was a point in

this game where they had a dime package out there with, first of all, Tony, Tony Jefferson is like a stone called Starter at this point now. He was out of football last year. He was in the Ravens Scouting Department. Marcus May just joined the team a couple weeks ago and then they lost him during this game. I'm here thinking, man, they really miss Elijah Molden. Who was good for them? But it's like when you're really missing him, they miss Alohi Gilman. And they were playing a guy named Kendall Williamson at safety. They're just playing players that have barely played at the NFL level. Who was the other one?

Leonard, DeAndre Leonard. Wayne Leonard, he was, he really struggled last year for, well, he's been, he's bounced around

the league for a while, but. Right. So it's, it's kind of a rag tag group. And then I'm being a little bit of a homer here in terms of like getting

more frustrated with, with the chargers than I maybe would another team. But Joey Bosa has not been healthy apparently all year and has not helped them. Although in this game, he did make a few plays,

give him credit for that. But Bosa and Mac have not been great towards the end of the year. They've been running right at Kaleo Mac the last couple weeks. Yeah. It's a rag tag unit for sure. I didn't know Marcus May was on the Chargers.

That's why I was like, Marcus May when you mentioned that he ran in since he was cleaning off waivers on November 27th. I think he got a game ball in his first game as a charger because you got a pick in that game. It's great. Super quick, 22nd Marcus May story.

I sat and actually I'm on a plane once. It was a cross-country flight, talked a lot of ball. He was really awesome. And he was back on the Jets at the time because he was like a third round pick, right? However quickly, he was usually high. And, oh, 39th overall. Okay, second round. And while we were on the plane, an elderly woman who went to Florida was sitting in front of us and passed him a note.

We just saw like a hand come through the seat and had a piece of paper. and when he opened it, he looked so profoundly uncomfortable. And he looked at me, he was like, I don't know what to do with this. Anyways, I think about that every time I see him. Well, I want to know, but did you ask what was in the note? I think it was solicitous. That is awesome. I mean, that is a wild story.

I'm so glad Marcus May came up on this podcast just so you could tell that story. Did you know that, did he know who you were? It came up in our conversation because he was, I was. I think I was going to actually ESPN, and he was like, oh, you were at ESPN? And we started talking about football stuff. He was great. That's awesome. The Broncos, by the way, just like stepping back a minute, have a much more realistic scenario.

The percentages would say they're pretty safe to make the playoffs. And yet when it comes to this stuff, I think how I would think as a fan. And I would suddenly be worried. I'm looking at the next gen stats. They're back to the seven seed. They're at 85%. That sounds great. But if they lose out, if they lose out, they have the Bengals next week.

And I am definitely trusting the Broncos over the Bengals. But it's in Cincinnati. It's Joe Burrow in a big spot. Like the Bengals are watching this game and they're loving this. If they can beat the Browns this week and then they beat the Broncos, if nothing else, they get to Week 18 playing meaningful football, which I think as a Bengals fan, that's a win. The Broncos are playing the Chiefs in Week 18. The Chiefs could very well be playing for the number one seed. They could not either, depending on what happens in between against the Texans and the Ravens. And then you could

see Denver fall the way out. And perhaps the most annoying scenario for the Bengals would be they actually do win out. And it's not going to be easy for them. They play Pittsburgh to finally. It's going to be pretty tough for the Bengals to get through. But they could win out, and actually it'd be the Colts who sneak in at 9 and 8. I've done all the scenarios. If the Colts tie there, the Colts would actually be the one who get in over the Broncos, and the Colts have the easiest schedule possible over the last three weeks. So I do think this result kind of opened it up just a little bit.

And the Dolphins are also happy. I guess the tricky thing with the Bills and the Chiefs is if the Chiefs win 1617, they have nothing to play for in week 18. Yeah. Yeah, so that would be tough for the Bengals. There's a lot, though. As, you know, I'm not trying to just be a company man, but usually at this time of year,

it's not just about me loving Justin Herbert. I do want the games, like I wanted the Colts to win last week too, because whatever can give us the most meaningful games so that the games aren't dead down the stretch. All right, Mina, before we let you go, look, it's been a long day. When I was driving in at SoFi Stadium earlier today, the Broncos buses were right in front of me with the police escort. And we actually have some sound from some other gentlemen still inside SoFi Stadium. Let's listen.

All right, I'm here with the voice of the Chargers, Matt Money Smith. Greg, Mina, hope you guys are well. Money, big takeaway from the game. Big takeaway is the first time they faced adversity. And we wanted to see them answer the bell. A lot of people saying they couldn't. win a big game. They had only been teams with losing records. They come out in the second half, shut out the Broncos offense, and Justin Herbert goes to town. Yeah, I thought Herbert,

you know, just kind of took the game over. I wrote it down. The run he had in the third quarter, it could have slid, stays up, gets the first down. Then you have him extending plays to Darius Davis for a touchdown, extending plays on the little flip to Hassan Haskins. And then the run he had on third down, like third and 11 or something like that. And he takes off and gets first down as well. Ten different receivers. Darius Davis first career touchdown, Hassan Baskin's first career rushing, receiving touchdown. Hayden Hurst hadn't played since November 10th, and he gets a huge third down catch.

He just spread it around. I did what Justin Herbert does, you know? He just finds the open man, and it worked. Yeah, sometimes you have to have someone carry the load. Mina, you know what I'm talking about. It's just what you got to do. You've got to step up and you got to cover up some of the sins of the others that may be sitting next to you.

Is that you and me? No, no, no, that's just Mina with Greg. No, no. I took a straight there. different thing. This is more of an equal level partnership. Okay, perfect. Not what's going on with Greg Maitis, so I look a little taller. There we go. That's better. All right. Let's clean up the booth. We don't want

Maurice to get mad at us. Oh, yeah, exactly. All right, yeah, throw it down. All right. Hey, see you guys. Bye. Thank you to Daniel Jeremiah and Matt Money Smith. Yes, you got to check out the show on YouTube so you can just see how young, all that surfing at 5 a.m. every morning is keeping Matt Money Smith. I don't know how he does it. I don't know why they wasted so much time, you know, until the point where Jeremiah took a shot at me, it just all felt like,

you know, four play or something like that. Oh, man. I feel like, yeah, they kind of same takeaways as us, which makes me feel good. Yes. Mina, you've been very kind to join us tonight. It is Mina Kimes season. I know you don't want me to talk too nice about you, but you were on the Simpsons Altcast, which changed the game in my house. Walker's watching Simpsons all the time now. The Alcass actually got him more onto the Simpsons. He loved it. And obviously, you got the Meina Kime show featuring Lenny.

It's almost annoying. You're getting better and better as a podcaster. Not that you weren't always great, but I'm always thinking like, God damn, she's always improving. And then NFL live. And then you're going to be on Netflix, which is really cool on Christmas. Like how excited are you about that? And you're coming on this show.

And like a million other friends shows this week. You can say no, Mina, but you are that kind of friend. I appreciate that. I sell Chargers, Broncos on the schedule. And I thought, that's the game for me. Interesting, you brought me on before the Seahawks game, by the way, which might be, it might be kind of over by then. But yeah, no, I'm excited for the Christmas games, especially now that, you know,

Mahomes is healthy. It's going to be really fascinating because they're flipping, right? They're playing on Saturday and they're just flipping opponents, which I love as an analyst just because it makes my life a lot easier. Just watch the two games and you get a few days to think about it. But I'm really pumped. I mean, it is like a legitimately great slate of games with Ravens Texans and Chief Steelers. So I'm looking forward to it.

And it's cool. I think it's a cool opportunity because. I came up thinking in this business, like, what, it would be great to have some non-players up there just as analysts. We basically only see non-players as reporters or as play-by-play guys or whatever. And I think it's awesome that in a spot like a freaking Christmas Day game, which those will be, you know, among the most watch games of the year that. Nervous. Don't be nervous. It's not about that. You've already done it. You've already done, already done all the work but that you're you're out here repin you're out here repin for um

the analysts and you're you're going to be awesome because you do such a good job thank you i appreciate it um i hope people enjoy and be yes uh thank you mina kimes uh before we're quite done with the recap and yeah i should have mentioned this the show's going to be a little different i'm really excited we have an interview with rams running back kairn williams after the break we taped it a little earlier in the week with Jordan Rodrigue of The Athletic. It's a really great interview. So stay for that. But before the game, we pulled some fans. We were outside SoFi Stadium to find out who would have a big game tonight in this edition of Who Will Deliver, presented by Uber Eats, where you can get the best deals on game day food all season long. Let's see if the fans were right.

Gerber is going to have a good connection with Ladd McConkey tonight. I think the score is 2720. Chargers come out on top all day. Clemack, two sacks today, and I got Ladd McConkey for one TD. In the third quarter, Broncos are going to be on the 35 and hit a deep ball to Marvin Mims, 65-yard touchdown. Ladd McConkey, 10 receptions for 132. Bowenks is going for three passing touchdown. Man, I think that Bowenix is coming in hot, dude.

He has what it takes. He has the poise. Today against Denver, Herbert's going to shine like amazing. He's coming back for the finish, and we're going to be cheering him on the whole freaking game. So everybody. What do you think? Chargers! All right, that was Who Will Deliver, presented by Uber Eats,

the official on-demand delivery partner of the NFL. Order now. We'll be back on the other side with Kyron Williams. Hey, this is Matt Jones. Now, I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit. Different? Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.

What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. All right, I am so excited to be welcoming in pro bowler. Kyron Williams, the running back of the Los Angeles Rams, also the Walter Payton Man of the Year nominee of the Los Angeles Rams, but it's not just Kyron Williams. A little peek behind the curtain if you're listening to the podcast version of this.

I got Kyron and Jordan Roderig of the Athletic with me, of course, my co-host on NFL Daily, and we were going to do it in three different windows. but the Rams like sound, you know, the room that Kyron was in wasn't that great. So now Kyron's on Jordan's computer and we're just doing this all together because we're a non-traditional podcast. You know, Kyron, you came late in the draft. You know, you're a non-traditional superstar running back. So hopefully feels comfortable to you.

Welcome to NFL Daily. Appreciate you coming on. Appreciate you guys for having me. Yeah, I'm used to uncomfortable situation. So this is all normal. I want to go more on that. Like, is Sean McVeigh, a coach that puts you. guys in uncomfortable situations, or are you talking more about Sundays in the games you're playing?

Well, just, I think there's the way that I kind of approach life. You know, I, you know, you expect comfort, but, you know, in those uncomfortable positions is where you really learn who you are, what you're about and like just things that you're made of. And so, you know, little things like, you know, God's going to throw you curveballs every single day. And you just got to expect to hit them and, you know, roll with the punches. So me, it's, it's whatever. I'm always ready for whatever it is. One of the things that I think, you kind of grow into your career over the last couple of years is you seek those situations out, like you go looking for them to the point where sometimes your coaches have to pull you

back or pull you away, almost protecting you from yourself because you put so much into everything. How have, how has that balance gone for you this year? Because you want, you want everything all the time. Yeah. I mean, I mean, that's kind of like I take it as a compliment, but also that I, you know, as I'm further going on my career, I realize that I got to be more careful. and be more, you know, aware of what, you know, I do to my body and just what I do physically. But for me, like you said, I've always grown up to just, you know, accept those uncomfortable positions, you know, whether that's in life, football, or, you know, even school when I was in school. And so for me, it's all normal.

But, you know, you're able to learn. You're able to learn from those things. And I learned this year, you know, I learned that, you know, I don't have to go hard all the time. You know, I can slow down, take a step back, take care of my body, listen to my body. And it just allows me to be able to be set up. And, you know, we're at the position I'm at today where, you know, I feel like I'm only getting stronger as this season's going. You know, it's week 16 and I just peaked in the weight room today.

So it's like stuff, little stuff like that, you know, allows me to be able like, you don't got to go hard all the time. Just be smart and, you know, do what you got to do when the time is, you know, necessary. Wait, you peaked in the weight room today. What are we talking about here? You know, in the force play jumps, you know, do we do those every, what's it, every Wednesday when we work out? And so today we was, we just, you know, you had your hands on your hips and it was a vertical jump.

You know, there's a trend that's on mine going like this. And so I beat last week's jumping, you know, so I just credit to, you know, the work that I'm putting in, the smart work that I'm putting in after practice and, you know, the things in the weight room that I'm doing. I'm jealous. We get to holiday season and I'm like, my body's falling apart at this time of year. I'm like, I used to watch all these coaches. They come into training camp and they're always in great shape. And then by December, that was like the old NFL. Now all your coaches are in great shape.

I got to admit, like, Sean and everything. I wanted to ask you a question. So I was thinking, what's a signature Kyron Williams run? I kind of had my own answer. I gave it as a kind of a thought experiment to myself. But I'd rather hear you answer it first, and then I'll give you my take. Like, what's a signature Kyron run?

Man, honestly, I want to say, I like it all, honestly. But, you know, this is past three, two. years, three years that I've been here with the Rams, we've been really honing in on the 12 duo and whatever that is, you know, actually 13 or 12, whatever, but, you know, having those double team blocks and be able to press the line of scrimmage and, you know, make those linebackers pick where they want to go and then just being able to jump cut from A gap or from C to C gap, you know, either way. And so for me, that's kind of what we've been, you know, what we've been known as here at the Rams. But, you know, I really feel like any run is a

Karen Williams run. I just got to get the opportunities. Yeah, especially the comes with your favorite, the doom block or the blast block in front of it. And that's something that the Rams, and particularly behind you, Kairn, have been working to install an overhaul over the past couple of years with you being very much the heartbeat of that. What's that been like for you? I mean, you know, you were a big deal in college, but to have, after the start you career, I know you hit some adversity, but then coming in the last two years, and this is built around you. It's built for what you do well. What does that been like for you? Man, it's a blessing. You know, because I've always wanted to be in this position.

I've always wanted to be right where I'm at playing professional football at the highest level and being successful at that. And like you said, I, you know, I ran into a diversity, but like that's what, that was my test. That was my calling. That was my really, like, are you ready for the NFL? Do you want to be in the, though? And so when I went through that stuff, like that's just like the, we talked about earlier, the uncomfortable positions or situations that, you know, I was able to be in at an early stage of my career

that allows me to be able to set up to where I'm at now. But just being able to have a, like, like you say, offense, of, you know, run game built around who I am and what I do best. It's a blessing because, you know, I love this game. I love being able to play football. And like you said, I want everything. So whenever I'm when Coach McVeigh is thinking about me in the run game, that's just all I've ever wanted, you know, while playing football.

Yeah, you gave me a very X's and O's answer, which I appreciate. And it's pretty close to what I thought about, too, although Jordan picked up on more of it than I could because that's why I have her, you know, on side. I can't do an interview by myself. Oh, that's for sure. Thanks, Kairn. You're a good teacher. You know, I just can't do it by myself.

I got to have her sit. And you guys are cracking me up watching this. People should check this out. I told Kiron he's too young for this, but this is like a Collinsworth slide situation. Like I should have really just split into the frame like this. It's true. And so what I was thinking of like signature runs because like Derek Henry, a signature,

one of his runs, you know, it's going to have a stiff arm in it. My favorite running back of all time, Frank Gore, if I'm thinking of what a signature run would be, it'd be him being so patient behind the hole that you can't even believe. And then he hits something so hard before it even opens. And you're like, how did you know that was going to open when it opens? And for you, it would be a little bit of that. It'd be what you said.

It would be a run that would have great vision, that would have great footwork where just the lateral agility. And that, to me, is what separates you and a lot of great running backs over the lateral agility to hit that hole and know when to hit it. But the one thing you didn't say is that to me, a signature Kairn run would be you'd get low at the end of it and you'd run someone over. Because I think the physicality that you bring at your size and everything that, like, I didn't know about that until I saw it in your second year. Are you still surprising defenders with that? And do you think I picked a good signature run?

Yeah, but, you know, I like to be physical. I just like that nature of, you know, people that are expecting me to come and really hit you. We come and really try to run you over. And so, like, being able to have that in the bag, it creates a lot of opportunities for me to be able to also find that safety, make, you know, line them up and be the one-on-one. So that's kind of like when I say, when you say signature, yes, you know, being patient, hitting that hole when it's not even there. But I also want to get into being able to make that safety mission, you know, create those big guns.

And then I'm still working for those. I'm still going to, I'm going to get those. They come as soon. I promise you that because this is what I see. But being able to have that ability to when people know that you aren't scared to lower your pad and run them over because that was the talk of me coming to the NFL. Oh, he's not big enough or he's too small. Like, who's too small?

I'll run you over. I'll be putting D-Ns on their place. It's all doesn't matter. That's out of the story now. And so, you know, being able to, you know, set that early on in my NFL career, that was huge for me. And like you said, seeing that in the second year, many people didn't know that. And I think one last thing on the signature run, we have to finish it with a flourish, right? whether you get hit or not.

And whenever you do get hit before you're ready to go down, right? He gets up and you will like stomp your feet and you have that emotion. And you can see you're often facing, you know, the end zone and you can't see your linemen running behind you. The linemen, they feel that and they come running up to you and they reset the line and you're ready to go again. How do you transfer that energy? That's part of your signature too.

Is that energy that you transfer among that line? I think that's part of the biggest thing, honestly, what I bring into this game is I'm able to to put, I'm able to bring the people around me with me. And that's just by my play style and who I am as a person. I tell you, I love this game. I love this game. I have so much joy going out there and being able to play this game and, you know, be around these professional athletes who, you know, I've once looked up to and now I'm

with them and, you know, practicing with them and going to war with them. Like, to me, that's just what it's all about. And so when I'm out there, I'm having fun, everybody can feel it. It's affectionist. And it's not anything that I try to do. That's who's who I am. Like, I remember when I was younger, that's how my dad was.

Like when he was coaching us and literally he was always the hype, man. He was always screaming. He's always, you know, getting us rowdy to go. And I just feel like that's how the game of football is played. And another thing, too, in high school,

I remember my freshman year, I was a freshman playing varsity. And I got hit super hard on the sideline. I caught a ball, got smacked. And everybody was like, woo, woo, wow, he's got hit. But my one thing my coach said is, you know, you bounced up so fast

that it made the defender feel like he didn't even do anything. And so you'll see me now, like, the first one above the ground. Like, I'm not staying on the ground because you didn't do anything to me. You didn't affect me. That hit, I didn't feel that.

And so that's just another mental, psycho thing that, you know, I try to bring to the game that allows, you know, me to have that edge over defenders and allows me to have that energy, you know, for my team. So we're talking to you before you head to the East Coast, Jets this week, big game, first time all season. You guys are now tied for first place. and I'll be real with you. You know, we're unbiased here at NFL daily,

but I've been living in L.A. now. We're a little biased. I've been here for 11 years now, and I didn't know what my daughter was going to decide to do as a football fan or even if she would become a football fan. But she went out to the Coliseum when the Rams were playing the Cowboys in the playoffs. You know, what was that? Six years ago now with Jared Gough in his second year.

And she became a Ram fan. So, you know, early on this season, season, and she's a huge Kyron William's pain, early on this season, you guys are struggling there at one and four. And I'm like, I'm sorry, Ellis, you know, I know it's disappointed. She spends her whole Sunday building around. I'm just like, this might not be the year. And she's like, oh, no, they'll be there at the end. Like, that's what they do. They improve as it goes. And I was like, yeah, but, you know, Stafford's getting a little older and there's a lot of injuries and all that. She's like, oh, no, they'll be there at the end. That's what they do. And it is what you guys do.

Like, what is it about this Rams team, including when you've been there, especially these last two years, that it's, it does seem like you guys are peaking at this time of the year and just kind of what are you looking forward to the rest of the season? Yeah. I mean, I couldn't tell you a pinpoint example or a situation that, you know, happened to us. I honestly think Coach McVeigh, he's a great coach and he's able to verbalize. I don't think many coaches are able to verbalize what we need to do. And he was able to do that. He sat us down. and he told us that we needed a sense of urgency.

We told us that we need to really, you know, come together as a group to go compete our butts off because sitting at one in four, we knew we weren't that type of team. You know, we were better than what we were putting out there on the field and we were not there on tape. And so did him be having that realization of him being able to be real with us and show us what the reality of the situation was. And like you said, we did have injuries. We didn't have Cupertuck. We didn't have Cooca.

We didn't have, you know, the people that we needed to, you know, have to also be the, you know, the explosive offense that we would be always work to be. be. And so, you know, just being him being able to, you know, be real with us, but still put that confidence in us, still be able to move us and motivate us to be in the right direction. I feel like that's what the biggest, you know, turning point for this team was because he sat us down and told us that we had 36 days left together. And when you think about it, 36 days is a lot. And when you think about it, you know, you don't want to lose in those 36 days. You don't want to come in December playing losing football. Like, that's just no fun in the NFL. And so,

So having that, having him do that in the creative response that he, you know, he created on his team is, you know, it's hats off to him. And then, you know, hats off to, you know, what he's about, what he's, what he's doing. But, you know, I just feel like right now, like you said, we're hitting at the right time. And we just got to continue to stay tight, stay focused and not worry about who's in front of us. You know, I always tell everybody, anybody we play is faceless and name us. Like, it don't matter who it is. Every Sunday we know that we got a game, but it don't matter who. So this weekend, it happens to be. the Jets, but it doesn't change anything that we do as offense, defense, and special teams. We're continuing to keep, you know, focusing on us and what we do to make us who we are. I think the thing that's so crazy when you talk to, like, elite competitors such as yourself and players across the league is that switch that you flip for opponents, right? Then you flip another switch when you get into the community. Yeah. And it is so personal to you. I mean, this Walter Payton, Man of the Year nomination, I know, is so deeply personal to you for a number of reasons, inclusive to how you found out about it. Can you kind

of remind us and take us through that moment? I tell me the whole story, honestly. So growing up in St. Louis, you know, I've always, you know, my parents, my dad was a football player, my uncles were football players. And so that's football was something I love to do. And my mom, she wouldn't let me play because she's always nervous about me getting hurt. So I had to wait. I had to play flag football. I had to do that first. But football, like I said, football is my love and my passion. And so being able to have the St. Louis Rams in St. Louis and have a professional team to be able to look up to, that's all I wanted to be. And so in eighth grade, I was blessed to be able to have friends whose parents were able to take me to games, take me to the Edwards

Jones domes and be able to, you know, really put eyes to what it was to, you know, live out that dream. And so one day, my grandma and my mimic, she had tickets to like the Stephen Jackson Foundation of 39 wishes where I was able to, you know, go. to the stadium, be on the field, and meet every single player on the Rams. Just like, you just walk up to the table and they sign autographs. And so when I got to Stephen Jackson, I knew who Stephen Jackson was from just being, you know, loving football so much and watching the Rams so much. And so when I got to Stephen Jackson, it was like, it was just a real moment.

Like me putting real eyes as somebody who I wanted to be, that's what, you know, changed my life. Honestly, I was able to picture. And I remember going home to tell my mom, like, I'm going to be an NFL player, like, this is what I want to be. And ever since that moment, you know, I felt deeply in love with football and, you know, I was still at every Rams game and I was still just wanting to be that person that, you know, I saw that one time when I was eight years old, you know, with Stephen Jackson. And so, and I was always at the games. So when Stephen Jackson, he came to the, you know, our team meeting, I was like, oh, wow, Stephen Jackson's here.

What's he going to tell us about? Like, I had no idea. And then the picture popped up of, you know, the picture of me and him when I was, him and I was, when I was. little. And I was like, okay, maybe he's just showing, like, the connection that we had. Like, you know, I met Stephen Jackson before. Like, nothing, no, nothing about Walter Payton Manor, there, nothing. And then he, you know, he told me what he told me, like, you know, he told me like, oh, your buddy here, he's a Walter Payton Man of the Year nominee. And I was shocked because I thought what I was doing was something I was supposed to do. Like, that's what God put me in his position to be, to be able to be a blessing to a blessing, you know. And so I know how it feels to be impacted.

I know how it feels to be inspired. I know how it feels to really put eyes to the person that you want to be. And so that's just my main focus. Like my main focus to inspire the youth because what Stephen Jackson did for me, little did he know allowed me to be where I'm at, allowed me to be able to him again in the position that I am as an NFL running back. And, you know, he gave that kid a dream that was, you know, reality. He told me to dream big and I dreamed the biggest.

And, you know, and so being able to have that and be able to have that and being able to know who I am and how I got to where I'm at, it's only right that I, you know, I continue to inspire the youths because you never know who was going to take that and run with it. And so that's kind of why, like, I'm always, if I see a kid and they see me and they know who I am, I'm always like, yes, yes, yes, yes to anything. That's why I throw the ball before games because you just never know who you're going to touch.

You don't never know who you're going to impact because, you know, Stephen Jackson didn't. And, you know, I'm blessed enough to be right here because of what he did. Now, have you watched the video back? Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Because we had it already. Now you talked it through. Let's put it on.

I'm going to put it on for our listeners just to check it out. And this was that moment where he introduces you. This guy right here, I had a chance to meet him. In this year, at that time, I met this young man. No, I did not know he would become a ram and all his way to being a great. So when you leave it all on the field, you help people forget and you give them inspiration. And that's why I'm here this morning, because one of our brothers here have done that. Our buddy here is the Walter Payne Rams nominee for this season.

And it goes on from there. cool moment. And yeah, all the work that you do in the community, people should check it out, but you served as the captain for the United Way of the Greater L.A.'s Walk United L.A. to help raise over a million dollars to fight cycles of poverty. It's a long list. It's amazing. All the different things that you've been a part of met with members of the L.A. Rams wheelchair football team. You're involved in the school district out here. We work at Englewood, too, at the, at, at, SoFi Stadium and you're involved in the LAUSD, the school district trying to help kids there in the Inglewood school system and in different local children battling life-threatening medical

conditions, all these different events. And it goes on. And yeah, what it made me think reading all this stuff is, yeah, you must be saying yes to every opportunity. And the thing that stands out to me not knowing you, Kyron, was just I watch how this man of the year stuff goes. And it's always almost like a thing that they reward veterans that have been around a long time for because it's such a hard honor to get that you have to wait. Stephen Jackson talked about it too. He got in 2012 and I'm thinking, yeah, that's at the end of his, that's towards the end of his Rams tenure.

So for you to get that as such a young player in your third season, I think that that says a lot about you. No, for sure. Like you said, I just, it's a blessing to be where I'm at and I know how I got to here. so I'm going to be a blessing to other people, you know, to make sure that whatever is that they're going through, they know that it's going to be okay, you know, because everybody, you know, we're all human. Everybody's going through something. And so, you know, I just try to be a blessing for a blessing for sure.

But your blessing to NFL Daily, we appreciate you. And your blessing of my friend Jordan Roderick here, you know, sharing the screen with her. And hopefully we helped you out too. I'm just here. He is the one who's on the screen. Yeah. And thank you, Kairn, because we know we hit a sudden change at you here with the location and everything. So thank you so much for being flexible.

You got to stand your toes. You'll never know what's going to happen. You got to be ready for whatever. Yeah, appreciate it. And it's cool. Maybe do like in honor of Stephen Jackson this weekend, like, do one of those Stephen Jackson run just running through. That guy was a beast. You must have loved him growing up.

Yeah, I got you. I wish he had a signature celebration that I could do. Yeah. I hear that. He was one of my favorites, one of the most physical, exciting running back. So you've been Ram for life, Ram back in St. Louis, and now, Ram now. Appreciate you, Kyron. Thank you, Jordan.

We'll catch you next time. Thank you so much. Appreciate you. All right. Thanks again to Kyron Williams of the Rams. Thanks to Jordan Rodrigue of the athletic fun show. Star-studded show. Thanks to Meena Kimes for joining and talking about a Chargers team that just feels a little bit different.

winning big time games with good coaching in December. Man, only one more TNF game left. When that's true, you know football is back. We'll see you Friday with Cynthia and the PIC show. Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies

to evaluating team-building philosophies, coaching trends and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sundays. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.