NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Minicamp Winners and Losers

Episode Date: June 13, 2025

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Patrick Claybon and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic to give you their winners and losers of minicamp season. Find out why the Bengals are losers (03:00), the Cowboys are winners (10:10), Xavier Legette is a winner (12:50), the Falcons (12:50) and Jets (20:00) are winners, Arthur Smith is a loser while Aaron Rodgers is a winner (23:00), mini camp stats are losers (28:48), the Bears are winners (36:30), and more! Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Stop shing your pants. Welcome to NFL Daily. I'm Greg Rosenthal, and we're getting excited for the real NFL offseason to start. Jordan Rodriguez, the athletics, clearly excited. Patrick Claibon is as well.

We're going to have to beep you out right off the top of the show, Jordan. Did not realize we were starting. Woo! We are starting. We couldn't get, you couldn't wait any longer to start. What if we don't beep it? I'm just throwing out out there. I'm looking over at Eric.

Me and Eric were having a conversation behind the glass earlier about just the tone of voice that you use to talk about difficult things. And there's no like, like FCC for podcasts. I guess the NFL, you know, certain things are more appropriate than others. But this is a, this is all on it. It depends on the timing of the beep. Because with the S word, right? And the ING. Yeah.

If you beep it, it could turn into something else. Whoa. Right. Okay. I mean, you could. We could drop it all together. You could. I am in favor of it.

And I think it fits well for the vibe of this show. Thriving. Mini-camp season is all but done, guys. The break is about to happen. The break is about to happen. Although there are a few random teams that are practicing next week, but not many.

Most like the Chargers, for instance, there's just a couple of rookies there. There's a couple of voluntary ones. A lot of people are canceling their things for next week. So about 28, 29 teams, their off-season program is over as of Thursday as we're taping this.

I want to run the numbers on is there an advantage to OTA timing? I would like to, and perhaps this is a tease, I'll reveal the answer. Okay. Next week. Wow. The lions, for instance, yeah, they've already been off for a week.

The Rams are going to go to Hawaii next week. Jordan is not making that trip. That would be a big expense for them to just... I will be in New York, helping my sister move. Great job by you. So, I mean, you pick an option, you know, like sweat. in New York, putting together IKEA furniture,

going to Maui. I mean, I don't know. Tough choice. Yeah, but when you're done, there's the collective relief of having done something good, right? Or, or the relief that comes

with laying in the sand, sipping a daffery, you know? You'd have to work there and, you know, I don't think you understand how little work is involved with covering Rams minicamp.

I can imagine. in Hawaii. You're not supposed to say that. It's basically like, hey, let's let Puka Nakua. It's so cool. There's going to be so many fans there that are so excited to see him. I am sad to be missing that. That is too bad. But we will wrap up. And I know you are at Rams OTAs this week. I don't know if the Rams will make it into this show or not. Because we are going to talk winners and losers for mini-camp season.

Something I like to do because it's just a fun framing device and serious football heads like Patrick might look down on it because like how can you really win or lose it's just this is a fun way to wrap up and justify why we're here at this time of season i'm not serious i'm just annoying okay um let's start i will throw out a winner right off the top i'll say jordan rodrigue is a winner because i feel like you have been right on front street of this bengal's story of them not taking care of their people and you've just been frustrated so it's just in your wheelhouse yeah uh that they are now finding new ways to annoy their players. Yeah, and I want to be clear,

because I think this is actually a serious topic, and I want to be really clear when I'm, like, speaking on it because I think it's really important for not just the current conversation, but the future of how these things are argued and then hopefully solved. I think that, first of all, the Bengals could have won the off season. They got their receivers done. Even if Trey Hendrickson was still kind of out there hanging in the breeze, and maybe there's a resolution and maybe it comes by training camp or maybe there's a trade,

I still would have given them more points for the positive of the offseason. And I've heard it. I've heard Bengals fans being like, why do you hate our team? Why do you hate the team? Like, stop talking smack about the Bengals. And I have to say, I am genuinely disappointed and disturbed by the way that they have handled this Shamar Stewart situation. because the entire context of this conversation is asking somebody to basically be the face of a changed blueprint to set a new precedent to take advantage of a collectively bargain, already collectively bargained contract, and remove something from that player and ask him to be the face of this precedent moving forward, which would then affect all other players.

And I don't think that's fair. and I think it's really a crappy thing for a team to do when a player already has no control over which team he arrives at via the draft. Yeah, and I should have set it up by saying that Shamar Stewart left Bengals minicamp on Thursday. He has not been practicing. He's their first round pick. Honestly, I did find out and understand what the difference in the contract that they're asking. It's not worth getting into here, but it is worth listening to Shamar Stewart talk about it earlier in the week.

I've been doing this for most of my whole life and then all of a sudden it's gone over something very simple to fix and it's kind of disappointing. We'll all agree Trey will be right, right? But technically, still 1% wrong for being on the contract. So in my case, I'm 100% right, so it should be a no-brainer. And in Trey's case, I think it should be a no-brainer too.

I mean, he led 17.5 sacks and two for two years back to back. If I was the gym or I was the owner, take all my money. But I guess they don't operate like that. Yeah. So, and I want to be clear, too, because I came into the room this morning, like, ready to swing because I was upset about this. And I am upset about this. I think that, first of all, these contracts are tiered in a certain way now that's pretty

relatively simple. They're not perfect. I don't think anything that has to be collectively bargained because a corporation on one side is trying to get more, and the worker on the other side is also trying to get more. It's always going to have to be a compromise in certain ways. So these are tiered in relatively straightforward manner now, and they were collectively bargained. But what the Bengals are trying to do right now is set a new blueprint for certain removals of guarantees in the back, end of guarantees of the contract. And like you said, it's murky and nuanced, and there's like

a lot of legalese involved, but at the basic, like, simplest way to describe this is something has already been approved by the collective bargaining agreement that the Bengals are now trying to change and to do so with this particular contract would then set a precedent and a blueprint for all 31 other teams to possibly do the same thing, which in this league, we have to assume that they would in order to save a small percentage of money. And instead of this being resolved when the player, when Shamar is holding out or not practicing, because it would be a liability for himself if he were to get injured in a practice before he actually signs the contract, instead of this being resolved, it is now turned into a very public situation where this 21-year-old young man

is basically having to be the face of if I don't hold firm, every other first round pick that comes after me could be subjected to this same removal. Right. And that's not fair. He said the money quote from him was, I'm not asking for nothing that's never been done before, but in the team's case,

y'all just want to win an argument instead of winning more games, in my opinion, which is fighting words and, man, is a tough situation for a rookie to be in. Yeah, they'd like to win a chance. to spend less money, ultimately to compensate someone. And while he's not asking for something that nobody else has asked before, the Bengals in this instance are asking something of Stewart that nobody has asked of anybody before in terms of the particular language of this contract.

And this is a CBA that was negotiated when Shamar Stewart was 17 years old. So he never had any call on what the CBA looked like. And here at this point, his only option is to withhold his to withhold his labor until this is resolved, but this is clearly, this is an overreach. Thing is they'll figure it out. All right, let's do another winner and loser. I apologize because that was such a bummer to start on. All right. Patrick, you're up. It's not a bummer. It's important. Right. No, it absolutely is. I just feel bad because like the Bengals are, it is an annoying situation. It will get straightened out off the top. I mean, eventually it will get straightened out. But I also just feel like we're at some point,

Bengals fans, they know it. And they're just having to sit in it right now. Yeah. And to be clear, like, none of us are trying to pile on the Bengals, but it is an infrastructural failure of the entire ecosystem top to bottom to put a 21-year-old in this position of potentially defying his union, potentially defying all of the players and teammates and colleagues that come after him. And where the hell is the head coach in this? Where is he to step in and be the coach for the player. Yeah,

Zach Taylor has never been one that has a ton of power compared to the rest of that organization. It's pretty clear. All right, Patrick. I don't think Greg's ever heard me yell before and I think he's deeply uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable. You feel like that's yelling. Yeah, that's not yelling.

I told Eric, I was like, when I'm mad, I still smile a lot. Like yelling is this. If they're conditional, they're not guarantees. Yeah.

If there's conditions attacks, so why do we call them guarantees? George Pickens. Oh, Greg is a winner, which also means Dak Prescott. is a winner, which also means the Cowboys are winners in this, where we see this exchange and feel like, oh, well, you know, George Pickens was Mercurial and he was doing all these weird things. He's at a great camp. And thus far, like, Dak Prescott had 26 throws on a

mini camp day, which signals to me that the deck is out there and they feel comfortable with him throwing that much. You mentioned the Schadenheimer vibes of getting promoted to, to actually a place where he'll be successful as a head coach, where maybe that success didn't necessarily come as an offensive coordinator and I've bought in. The vibes are better. He's wearing a backward visor. That was what really did it for me. I kind of love that like I don't hate him for wearing a backward visor.

I just, he looked. Wait, why would you hate him for wearing a backward visor? No, I, oh my gosh. Hate is a strong word here, people. You use it. I'm just saying like I don't like he, he pulls it off is what I'm saying. It's like the reverse hat fish. Like he really pulls it off.

It's awesome. If anyone was going to pull it off for some reason, it is, it is shoddy. Yeah. Good, good week for the Cowboys. Just that they got Michael Parsons, too. I throw them in as a winner that he's actually out there. It's not a big difference to me, but it indicates he's definitely not holding out a training camp.

He did show up to mandatory minicamp, unlike Trey Hendrickson and TGY. I obviously don't fault those guys for not showing up, but he even jumps in to some individual drills, which I think was like not the plan. That said, we had Ian Rappaport on earlier this week, and he thought that's the holdout that might go the longest. And so he'll probably have a hold in here in Oxn,

I would not be surprised. All right, give me a winner or a loser. Yeah, it kind of piggybacks off of that. And the Cowboys kind of on the ascension in terms of vibes. And it seems very much to be the case. New offensive coordinators who are taking over already solid offenses or offenses who already have a franchise quarterback, King Grisard and the Lizard Wizard over at the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

John Morton with the Lions. Grant Udinski with the Jaguars, Nick Cayley with the Texans, Kevin Petulow with the Eagles. And Clayton Adams with the Cowboys, the aforementioned Cowboys. the aforementioned Cowboys, these are all relatively inexperienced, some long-time coaches, but relatively inexperienced coordinators who are taking over teams that are very competent right now, or at least on the offensive side. So they're being set up in positions to succeed, unlike a lot of people who are replacing fired people. Yeah, I could also say we could also build this into the loser category in terms of hiring practices across the league,

but you'd have to do a quick Google search on all of the names. that I mentioned. Why? What? Who's a winner? Give me a winner. A different winner? A different winner.

I would go Xavier Leggett because he's in a glarillo. I love it. The video is literally almost screaming right now. No, that's fine. Sorry. No. I have so many, too. But that was like the biggest one.

I forgot about it last week. I was just like, what? I saw it in the rundown. I was like, did Greg talk about this yet? It's also like not just that he is in a glorilla video. He's in it sort of as like a symbol. of a highly attractive young man. Like, he is the object in the video.

So who wouldn't want to be that as a 22-year-old? It reminds me of when the TikTok memes started. Haba, hubba. Of Bryce Young last season. Like, who's going to beat the Chiefs? And then it was all these Bryce Young memes. The same sort of energy surrounding Xavier, like this video has changed the social media perspective

on Xavier Leggett from the guy that drops the ball in which like I know like Packers fans will remember the era of Devante dropping the ball and it's like oh this guy he can't catch this is bad but I think the vibes have shifted and now there's more collective belief in Xavier Leggett that he's like as Glorilla said the type of player that Panthers fans want you like that I thought about trying to pull off a joke like that and I called an audible halfway through I was like the downside is is too great probably a good call you're good it's definitely a trend We got Stefan Diggs with Cardi B.

We got sauce Gardner with Ice Spice. It's all happening here in the NFL. We're at the center of the culture. And you know what Glorilla reminds me of? What's that? Is that she randomly was getting pitched to be on, and was expected to be on NFL Total Access about three years ago. And I happened to have had a conversation with someone about her going on to the show

because they weren't really familiar at the time. And it was just when she was just. starting to pop. I was like, oh, you got to do that. That's going to be great. And in the end, they decided, they said no. They didn't have her on. And what I really want to say is, you got to trust my instincts on what the kids are listening to in terms of pop culture. Because I was on it. I was like, no, no, she's, she's about to take off. She's, she's popping off. And we said, no. Bad job. That job. Give me another winner. That's like a sliding doors moment for NFL total access. May it may forever rest in the house. Okay. One of my winners is that the Falcons are

building their program thoroughly out with Mike Pennix, that they also have a quality backup quarterback and possible trade capital in Kirk Cousins. And that Kirk Cousins came out and said that he probably overestimated how ready he was to play after his Achilles injury, which like all of us could have and did say. But I respect the Falcons for like letting him go on his own discovery journey and still drafting the quarterback, understanding that, hey, maybe this guy won't be ready, who we just gave a bunch of money to. We should probably still go out and draft a quarterback. I do think we have sound of that as well. I think when the season ended last year, you know, as I started then getting into working on my body and having the time to do that,

felt like I thought I was much better than I was. And I think you learn that as you, as you improve, as you make improvements, you realize, oh, I thought I was already back and I'm still, you know, making a lot of improvements here. Yeah, I think Kirk is a winner of this minicamp. I know it doesn't look like it on paper, but I think he's a winner in terms of, like, he shows up. And he, I think there's a lot of handwringing about, like, the vibes that would potentially be happening

in that quarterback room. To that, I say, clearly those people don't really know Kirk Cousins, who is not the type of person to cause any sort of internal toxicity. Rahim Morris is, like, praising him for being in the front row of the media. all the same. And they also don't know Mike Penix, who is one of the calmest, most prepared and collective, collected people who could be playing quarterback for you and potentially being your franchise quarterback. I honestly think this is a win, win, win, because the Falcons also look really smart for having navigated this way. Money aside, they look really smart for having

this plan in place and potentially having a trade piece later in the season once Kirk, if something else, God forbid, happens to another quarterback and a team needs a quarterback and comes calling for the Falcons. It's true. It's a chance. It's true. And yet, the biggest reason he's still on the Falcons is just no other team wanted him. The reporting is just, if anyone had taken on $10 million of his salary and given anything, they would have traded him. But I think you're right. In the end, the way they've managed that and the way they talked about each other, Kirk and Michael Penix, I think they're cool. And it would be great to have Kirk Cousins as your backup, ultimately, because I don't know that Michael Pennix

is going to survive the season. So Rapshie kind of convinced me on that one. It doesn't mean they wouldn't trade Kirk if they get a decent offer in camp. But ultimately, if you're just worried about the 2025 Falcons, they're much better with Kirk Cousins as their backup quarterback versus...

I don't know who is their number three right now. And I want to reiterate too. Like, he, they gave... The Falcons gave Kirk every opportunity to the point of losing games to keep that job last year. Right. And yes, the injury was a factor

that we now know of per Kirk Cousins. But like they gave him every opportunity to win that job. And Michael Pennex took over and looked like the future. If you go back and watch some of the throws that he made over that stretch, he looked like the future of this offense. The conversations that I've had with people in Atlanta, he is the future of this offense. And so yes, it sucks and it sucks to watch your kind of career get relegated to this

before your eyes. And certainly the injury is a significant factor in that. But Kirk did not keep the job. He just didn't keep the job. I think he has the self-awareness of that. That's what I'm hearing from his comments. Well, I think he's always had the self-awareness. I feel like he's comfortable now to acknowledge that that wasn't Kirk Cousins that we saw

towards the middle and the end of his run last season. And he said it right there. Like, I thought, I think he knew. I don't think it was a surprise to Kirk be like, oh, well, it turns out I wasn't, I wasn't actually back. No, I think he knew. But you have to delude yourself in great professional athletes. they have to have a certain amount of delusion to get to where they are.

He's 36 years old. He suffered that tornicillies much later than Aaron Rogers did in terms of the course of the season. So it does make a lot of sense that he could be in better shape. Their number three quarterback right now is Easton Stick. They also have an undrafted free agent, Emery Jones. So that is a pretty big upgrade at your backup spot in case anything happened to the man, Michael Pennix.

The fourth quarterback, West didn't stick. Hey now. Thanks, Patrick. Come on. There is. I'll take it. Who's up? Who's up on winners?

It's me. I made an Easton Stick joke one time on GDL. And Scott Pioly thought I was referencing a hockey stick, but I was referencing a baseball bet. But it's a big sporting goods company. Anyway, speaking of Achilles, uh, winner is the fact that Aaron Glenn said, Jermaine Johnson might be able to start, uh, the 2025 season, which makes me more excited for this Jets team where as we've collectively looked at it. Yeah.

piece by piece as the offseason has gone on, there's more reasons to believe. And I think getting Jermaine Johnson back at the edge, at some point, whether it's, again, it's an Achilles. So like we just discussed with Kirk Cousins, it's going to take time to get back to the way that he was playing before.

But such a good force run and pass off the edge, just a solid player in that position. Again, the whole roster looks so much better with just a little bit of change and a little bit of belief with, you know, Aaron Glenn, sprinkling things in. I know. He's got the it factor. I've said this before on the show.

I've really liked most, if not all of the things the Jets have done this season. They fall very much into my offseason and minicamp and probably training camp. Winners column. You've got Justin Fields leading a total excellent vibes, probably smash mouth offense. I saw a highlight. I mean, I know it's this time of year where we do see the highlights. I saw a highlight of one of the passes that he made downfield at minicamp. And it drew a collective like, I think,

exhale of happiness from that entire area that where it's just felt so toxic for so long on the field. And then stars with extensions coming due soon are actually showing up to these practices. Aaron Glenn cut swift ties with any of the negativity that lingered in the building prior and did so even though he had to eat that criticism publicly from Aaron Rogers. He just kept going to work and going about trying to make this football team better. I think it's a huge credit to Aaron Glenn and the Jets. And, you know, I'm starting to buy in guys. I am. I am starting to do it. I've been buying in. I'm with you.

Garrett, there's a lot of like Garrett Wilson looking better than he ever has. I mean, it's always awesome. I can, I love this time. I can buy it. Everyone's great, except the people who aren't. J.K. Dobbins is a winner. I like that home for him in Denver. Haven't done a show since he signed there. He's going to make that team. He's getting, I think, $2.75 million base, but guaranteed two. So there's no chance that he's going to get cut beforehand. I don't know if it's like a massive change in RJ Harvey's, like, fantasy stock.

I saw a lot of that. It's like, I think RJ Harvey is going to be who RJ Harvey is. And J.K. Dobbins is another valuable piece to have there and probably will have a sizable workload. But ultimately, I never thought RJ Harvey was going to be a guy that was getting more than, you know, 12 to 15 touches a game. And if he's going to be, if he's that good, he still will, even if JK Dobbins is there. But JK Dobbins, great vibes.

player who might be even better a year further removed from his surgeries, but he was quite good last year. And I always think Sean Payton knows how to get the most out of his running backs, really all his skill position player's strength. So he'll focus on what Jacob Dobbins does well. And I think get a lot out of him. I regret to inform Arthur Smith that I have placed him in the mini camp and OTA's losers column. Not because I think that about him as a person or his offense or his system, but because I think that he was riding shotgun in this car being driven by Mike Tomlin, and suddenly there's a new passenger princess in town. That person has control over the GPS and over the music. And Art Smith is like hanging on to the bumper on a

skateboard. And this offense, the way that this offense comes together is one of the stories of the off season, in my opinion, because Arthur Smith is going to have to pull from a different set of knowledge, a different set of concepts than he previously has preferred that really run heavy, you know, play action, all of those types of things, whereas Aaron Rogers likes to change the play at the line of scrimmage. He likes to drop back. He likes to have the defense in front of him. He likes to understand and see where all of the little chess machinations are coming from. And I think both of those things are fine. It's just melding them together is what's going to be super interesting to me.

And I am waiting with breath that is baited to see what this version of the Steelers look like. Let's listen to Aaron Rogers. I checked out his entire press conference with the Steelers reporters. And I found it compelling. Here's a little section of it. A lot of decisions that I've made over my career and life from strictly the ego, even if they turn out well, are always unfulfilling. But the decisions made from the soul are usually pretty fulfilling.

So this was a decision that was best for my soul. I believe him. I also, it doesn't make me necessarily feel any better about the Steelers because of what you said. Like one thing left unsaid about the Arthur Smith and Aaron Rogers' offenses lately is how ineffective they've been. Like even with Matt LaFleurrez's coach in Green Bay was ineffective. Certainly was with the Jets. Arthur Smith is on a three-year losing streak essentially of ineffective offenses. And the thing that was interesting to me listening to that clip in Rogers and there was another one where they literally asked him,

what would it be like to win a championship here? And he said, oh, you know, he said something like, well, that would that be seven, you know, here? That would be, that would be great. But then he went on and said, but that, he essentially kind of was like, but that's not what it's about for me. It's about giving back to the game and just finding joy in something that I love to do, which is great, but I don't know. Part of me also thinks like once you're thinking about retirement, he just, I don't know

if he's quite all in as he used to be. How could you be? But all that stuff is what's happened before. I think his level of All In hasn't changed. This is just a cyclical thing where he gets in the honeymoon phase with a new team and the interviews all sound great. He starts dropping Sun Su-esque quotes about making decisions for his soul. And then in week four, he'll be, you know, campaign him with RFK somewhere, right? Like it's all, we've seen it all before.

It's the question of how, how well is his Achilles doing? How well is he going to move in the pocket and all the other stuff? Mike Tomlin's going to take care of all that. Yeah. Right. It's, we're going to get. Okay. We're going to get boring.

Mike Tomlin is still driving, okay? I got you. But the negative view when I watched it, I was like that it wasn't really all about wins and losses anymore for him, which I think is a dangerous place to be in pro football. I will say like this is a multiple things are true at the same time situation where I believe that he believes in what he's talking about right now. I believe the Steelers signed him with the intent of we need to try to actually, you know, push past this hump that we've been in and win.

They aggressively pursued behind the scenes, but still aggressively pursued different quarterbacks this offseason and ultimately came to Aaron Rogers, gave him the leeway and the patience to be able to have his off season the way that he wanted to have his off season. And at the same time, like, Aaron Rogers is many things, right? But right now he strikes me as somebody who is deeply committed to trying to go out on a high note. Yes. Whatever that looks like, whether it's, I think he has to and perhaps based on these comments, has come to terms with the fact that it might not mean a great

record, but he wants it to feel like a high note. That's what I'm getting from those comments. I think I think that's well said and a good interpretation of everything. And it's funny because him being in charge of the offense, which he, that was like one of the things he bristled that was like, well, I've always just played within an offense. I'm never changing the place. And I'm like, bro. We can see you, Carl. It's literally the reason he got hurt. It's literally the reason it's also like part of the reason why he's recorded some of the greatest seasons of all time. I can remember so far back as like there was this little 2014-2015 lull in his career

and the huge criticisms of at the time with McCarthy was he was so like he had lost his balance of in structure and out of structure and he essentially was just like vibing out there and not doing the plays is called. That was more than a decade ago and I think it's only gotten stronger since. But I don't know if it's good for my soul,

but I am happy Aaron Rogers back in the league. I think it's going to make these Steelers games more important. Let's take a quick break and we will be back. with some more winners and losers. Wrapping up mini-camp season after the break. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

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apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts hey this matt jones i'm drew franklin and this is nfl cover zero we're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different did you see the colts pretzel that was my other big takeaway from that what was that oh my we think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Back on NFL Daily, Kyle Shanahan got annoyed with the reporters who are keeping stats in OTAs. Yeah, I'm team Kyle Shanahan on this. I get it. And he's saying that the keeping of the stats is not only misleading for the people that are reading it, but is actually impacting the way the players play.

Let's say maybe a quarterback is trying to get more completions than he normally would because he knows they're keeping track and negatively impacting their learning. A little wagging the tail thing. I never really know what that is. If only there was somebody to properly contextualize the things people were seeing and honestly evaluate them when asked.

Well, I don't think he would approve on us going winners and losers. I guess we'd be on the side of like, nope, sorry, Kyle. There are winners and losers. I actually in my losers column, I had the people putting actual weight. Like, it's fine.

Track as many stats as you want. But in my Losers column, I had putting actual weight on it. And I do have like a quick, very quick anecdote on that front. If you will, guys will indulge me. Of course. I remember in 2021 when Matthew Stafford first arrived in Los Angeles, he used the joint practices against the Raiders and the Cowboys during that summer to basically troubleshoot the range of his receivers and what window.

within this offense. You know, receivers in this off in the Sean McVeigh system, especially at that time, they were changing around some of the landmarks that they would ask receivers to run to, basically the spot on the field to which the quarterback throws the ball, understanding that Stafford was a quarterback

who could freestyle a little bit more, could be more creative with the range of what that route structure and spacing would look like down the field. So he was using those practice that he threw like seven interceptions in one practice. And I remember the collective narrative, especially from visiting media

at the time was people losing their G.D. minds over this. This is the bus trade. This isn't going to work out. He's washed. He's, he's it. Conversely, Jalen Ramsey was playing in the star position, so the slot, their hybrid slot safety corner for the first time and working on a new type of match zone that conceptually they were trying to install that offseason. And again, clips of him giving up a two-yard pass, videos of him giving up a three-yard pass. He's cooked. He's washed. They're never going to be the same again. And what did the Rams go and do that year win the Super Bowl?

I'm just saying this to say, like, people use these practices to try things, to learn things. Well, it was what Kyle said. Actual competition. Like, none of this matters yet. Especially now. And Kyle was like before they could just practice, the point of practice is to practice. I agree. I have, like, losers are people putting too much into mini camps.

Here's how you can tell you shouldn't put too much into them is half the teams like cancel and don't take all the days even necessary. They cancel the last day or two. They cancel next week. If it was that important, they wouldn't. And so they should just be, you know, it is practice. I think the most important things you can draw from them are stuff that we're talking about. Like where the coaches are telling us stuff or injuries happen, unfortunately.

In defense of the of the charters, right? I say chart away. Yeah. A lot of. I mean, you're right, say not to, rather. A lot of folks came up in errors where coaches were reluctant to share information. Availability was limited. Viewing opportunity was very limited.

And so there's, there's scraps, right? And you have people that are trying to just claw together every scrap that they can. It's very difficult to walk around a field and just absorb vibes. Right. So it's like, oh, so and so was X of X for X yards and X touchdowns. And then, you know, you could poise that to the coach. And then the coach could properly contextualize that. But in a lot of situations,

they may say something like, we all, we all could be dead on Sunday or not actually answer the question in the first place, which puts people in position to chart. Right. Ted, that's totally true. And like, you're only allowed to show up as a media during OTAs, usually once in an entire week. Mini camps used to be totally different, not to age myself, but you used to be able to tackle and wear pads. And they did two practices.

Back on Monday, they would fight. It wasn't that long ago. But before the CBA, they would do two practices day one. Like, it would be like a training camp day, essentially. And now it's different. Now they're canceling the final Saints practice to go to 504, F-O-R-E, which I'm guessing is some sort of bonding. Either mini-golf or top golf copy.

They're going to listen to Weese's new album. More information is good. No, they don't. All I'm saying, more information and trust in the reporters on the ground is good. It's just that when you're weighing too much in this time of year, you go down this deep, dark path. And I just don't want that for people. I don't want that for you, the fans. They want better for you.

I love that they put the Saints having practice or not on that. That's what they say at least. On rookie QB Hunter Decker's making a three-pointer or not. And he hit the three-pointer and everyone. Buckets. And then they get to go play golf. You're up. Sad loser and winner.

I'll combine them because it's injury related for both of them. We'll start with the good news. Keaton Mitchell fully recovered and on the way back from that ACL tear that came in his rookie season, which was very promising and the Ravens go and rush for over 3,000 yards and have a great running season and now Keaton Mitchell gets to be added back

to that finally fully healthy behind Derek Henry and on the downside a little bit further away in the tri-state area Michael Gallup having a setback waiting for his comeback to fully come to fruition

and so that's that sucks. Yeah, the worst thing to hear this time of year are injuries so let's just fire through a couple. Noah Brown had what sounded like the most serious injury from this week. we'll see. We don't know the results, but he was carted off, was very frustrated. I think, described as a, by a reporter there, Ben Standeg is like slamming his helmet,

kind of yelling out when they went over a bump, which is not a great sign for him. They also don't have Terry McLaren there, but that's not because of an injury. That's just easy. He's holding out waiting for a new contract. So that's disappointing. Also, just everyone ease off on Debo, looking a little slow on one of those routes and a little bigger. Like, they're not playing at full speed. He's not trying to run his fastest. Let's just, let's just calm down. I also guarantee you he is going to be so hard to tackle regardless.

So like if a freight train is coming at you or a slightly smaller and thinner freight train is coming at you, it's still a freight train. Debo's never been a small guy. Right. He is, he is a big boy. But this, like the route that they had like multiple people, like it was like a drill. Like, like let's calm down. But in, in San Francisco, they have a couple of receivers that have been out. They're on my radar because Ricky Pearsall just wasn't.

able to stay healthy last year and he missed most of OTAs. Joanne Jennings has been out with a calf. The Bears are missing Colston Loveland. He might not be ready for training camp. So that's whenever the second year player, you hear like, well, I never really caught up because I miss so much of the offseason. We tend to like overlook the off season part of it. And Luther Burden really hasn't practiced for them.

So a lot of just like little injuries that we'll keep an eye on going into camp. Give me something you like. Ricky Piersall, who was literally shot. You're mentioning that as he could not stay on the field. Oh, I was not referring to that. I was referring to the injuries that he had. Some clarity. Yes. Some clarity here.

He had injuries before that, that he was not on the field, even before that. And then when he came back, he suffered through a couple different separate injuries, but I'm glad you cleared that out. I have a Bears positive that is less big picture, but more a couple of pieces that I've been reading coming out of the Bears, mini camp. It seems like they're really focusing in on the details to the point where Ben Johnson is like losing his gourd at Colquemette for lining up a yard off in his split, which is actually that's that's a thing. You have to, when you have those splits the way that he likes

to run his formations, like you need to be in the exact specific right place. Like even an inch off affects the spacing deeper down the field. So I read a story about that. Then I read a story about them practicing a ton of situational football. So for me, the Bears are winners because they're doing these things at a high intensity, even in a low intensity time of year, to try to reset the narrative that they just are messy all throughout. That is a little bit of a trope, but also one that I think is meaningful. Because it's a Mike Vrable, he's getting the same pop of like, hey, they're making

them redo the plays. They're making Drake May call out a certain cadence. And if anyone jumps offside, then you got to do the thing, whereas that would have never happened last year. But I also do believe certain coaches pay closer attention to details much more than others. You could see it when Dennis Allen, for instance, replaced Sean Payton, like, they just got sloppy in a second. And that starts in the opposite. And I think that Ben Johnson, because he coached under Dan Campbell, like, has this, like, sort of warm, fuzzy rep by association. Which is not the case at all.

Like, he is hyper detailed, very intense. he's like not the warm, fuzzy bear hug at the podium of Dan Campbell. He's all biting kneecaps of Dan Campbell. And he can also, by the way, identify the specific location of the Patel attendants. So he is like hyper fixated and very intense. And I think it is what the bears need. And that's my point. I'm going to give a winner to the Pittsburgh Steelers assistant coaches

who are giving us hardcore depth chart updates. their wide receiver coach said very clearly, Calvin Austin is our number two. Y'all don't realize he's underrated. He actually made the case for Calvin Austin as a better blocker than people realized despite his 162 pounds. I do think Calvin Austin has been a better player

in the NFL than people realize. But he said, like, that's our number two. Like, stop asking who's the number two. Interesting. And then their defensive line coach said Derek Harmon is our left starting defensive end. He's our, you know, you guys can stop asking that too. He's our rookie.

he is going to start. So just a little bit of like morsels of nuggets. Why hide information? And I like it in June. It doesn't. It's not going to make them try less hard. It's like, oh,

I can get super comfortable now. And yeah, it's the type of thing that is good. It's the information that people go to mini camp to cover and get stuff like that. Why keep it behind this veil of mystery? And no coach ever is going to be like, hey,

you know, you guys need to properly contextualize me having guys redo things. You know, like that's something that they're completely okay with him. you being like, yeah, Mike Vrable. He was actually seven inches off of his spot, not a yard. He went crazy today because detail wasn't specifically adhered to. They also, yeah, have a boss that they clearly like, Mike Tomlin's like, yeah, you can say whatever.

There would be some coaches that that would probably be. Yeah, what would be the point of not saying it? Yeah. One of my winners was quarterbacks getting either engaged or married. Okay, yeah. And especially during this mini camp time of year to pivot slightly. Jalen and Breonna Hertz Josh Allen and Haley Steinfeld

Aaron Rogers I don't know if he said specifically who he had gotten married to Drake May and It's Brittany with an eye based on a Pat McAfee appearance from like six months ago or three months something like that

Okay That's it That's all the details Drake May and Ann Hudson Are about to get married High School sweethearts Jordan Love and Ronica Stone And Matthew Stafford and the Rams

renewed their vows for another year Okay so I have to admit to you guys I only knew like two of these so I crowdsourced it with my 15 person all women's NFL reporter group chat and the first response I got back was everybody

they're all married to the game shout out to Catherine Fitzgerald perfect response I'm happy for all these young men I love love it's awesome I have a winner in a trope update it comes our courtesy of Cardinals tight end Trey McBride

who said that the Cardinals' offense was adding a lot of sauce in the off season. And it's like we step away from, yeah, we're going to be more precise. We're going to be more multiple working different position groups. He went ahead and said that the offense is going to have more sauce. And I like that because it's a little bit of mystery, but we also know exactly what he means.

I like that Marvin Harrison has added copious amounts of tricep muscles. I don't know if you see. You're on Mia for Trope Alert. It's been a whole, like it's a huge story in Arizona. were just like he has showed up and he's just outrageous and then they sent they sent like a picture out and people are just all into Marvin Harrison's triceps

all the reporters there it's all happening if triceps are taking over the top result when I searched it is is Marvin Harrison getting too jacked oh my god we're on the other side of the veil there is such a there's such a thing people used to think CMC was too jacked

CMC by the way fully healthy practicing fully it's rare that that is happening so that's just that's just a little notable. I'll throw a winner out that Bo Melton is trying to be like Travis Hunter and playing on both sides of the ball. It's not a great sign for his career as a receiver in Green Bay

where he's probably fighting an uphill battle to make the team as like a pure receiver. But he's out there straight up playing cornerback now. Like his bro, Max Melton on the Arizona Cardinals. So maybe he can be some sort of hybrid special teamer, cornerback

six cornerback sixth receiver. Let's go. Coach LaFurt did like clarify. He's like, Bo is still a wide receiver. Okay. But it's hard not to take negatives away from like seeing a number 80 out there like working on his punch. It's like, oh, no, what are we doing? If it helps you make the team, if you look at all the guys they've drafted and the guys who are just bigger than him, he's got an uphill battle.

So that's good. Raiders fans, I'm going to say are losers for wanting anyone that's a Raiders fan that just wants to forget. get about Derek Carr's playoff throw against Jermaine Pratt. They won't be able to because Jermaine Pratt is now a member of the race. I was starting to be worried for your personal trainer, Stephen. No, see what I did there? It was started. You had me in the first half. I'm not going to lie. It was a heat seeking missile that navigated its way past Remain Pratt.

Yeah. To the couch that Derek Carr is sitting on. It's fair point. I saw a Bengals fan say that was one of the best moments. Frank is in the best shape of his life. I saw Bengals fan say that was one of the best moments of their life, the Jermaine Pratt interception. And it's true.

If you're thinking about the losing streak and the playoffs and the struggles that they had, that kick started at all. But now when Pratt's out there, you know, good signing for the Raiders, give a veteran guy a chance at a position of need. But it's just going to remind Raiders fans. I think it's going to show them how far that they've come. Okay. And that this is a totally new start.

And there's new things to celebrate. enjoy, you don't have to necessarily keep for anybody in their massive mistakes. All right. We should, we should get the people on their way. If we, if you guys want to do any speed round winners and losers before we say goodbye, uh, to this edition of mini camp, you know, wrap up. The Panthers are a winner in my book. Getting Derek Brown back this season is going to be huge for their defense. Also, Trevon Morig sounds like he's already making a splash in practices. Yes, it is OTAs. We are not going to put too much stock in it, but they badly need somebody who can play that versatile safety, come into the box,

help defend the run, who also can make plays on the ball. Their defense needs the juice and getting him into the mix on that three-year deal, but also regaining Derek Brown, signing Bobby Brown. All of these things are good for the Panthers. Ted McMillan out of practice. Just someone to keep an eye on coming into training camp, just in case that's serious. You just don't know this time of year. And congratulations to all the folks who were

agitated by Rishie Rice's non-appearance in our receiver ranking, that he was a full participant working his way back and get some more Rishie Rice. So he, He can get out there and prove us wrong. Shout out to the receiver rankings, but still doing good numbers. People are going back to that.

People getting mad. You know, I don't feel bad. I think Rissi Rice was very solidly, like, around 35. Yeah. He was not even one of the first guys off, but he was definitely in the top 40. He's got to prove it. He's got to stay on the field.

Quickly, James Cook, his financial advisor, is absolutely a winner. Let's listen to why James is back at practice. Obviously, it is man. but why did you decide to come? I like my money. Yeah. Definitely do.

So that's why I'm here. Yeah. I love that for him. If you're making it now, too, you can invest it in the near term. And it also indicates to me he's not going to miss any of training camp. And so ultimately, even though he probably deserves a new contract, I don't think he's going to be holding out. CJ Stroud was back in practice.

So that's good for the Texans fans that were worried. He just said he needed to take a little bit of a rest with his arm, but he's back to practicing fully. And then a lot of big nickel love. Derwin James and Nick Eamon Worry, both getting that offseason. We're going to play closer to the line of scrimmage. Derwin James, of course, did that very much effectively at the end of last season, but they're going to try to lean into that more.

And it definitely sounds like Eamon Worry they're using essentially as a linebacker is. Yes. And you know my theory on this is that people understand that the quote-unquote cover linebacker is still just as important as they always have been because of the new, the modern since, you know, the early, mid-2015 and beyond 2017, beyond spacing and play action and all of those types of things. So they still need a cover player in that area.

But they also understand how prevalent the run game is regaining its own momentum and its own steam. And so they still need that downhill force to help stop the run. So I think you're going to see more one and a half linebacker sets, which means a actual linebacker. backer a la Ernest Jones and then Nick Emmen Worry coming in is that hybrid player to help with the coverage as well

so I think this is going to be fun shout out to Dion Buchanan ahead of his time. It's kind of like the only guy filling this role about seven or eight years ago. Now there's a whole league full of them. That's Shaq Thompson erasure but okay. I mean I feel like that's fair. Shack Thompson to me

was just like a outside linebacker. Buffalo nickel. Yes. Great show. Great week. We will be back next week on Monday. And you know what? It's going to be the same trio here. Oh. Maybe even in the same outfits. No, I brought a change of clothes. But we are going to be talking about the secret weapons. Remember, we did it a couple weeks back. This time, it'll be from the national football conference. Football's taking a break. It's not back. What? It's taking a little

break. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky, on move the six we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies coaching trends and how front offices construct winning rosters we study the tape talk to decision makers and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else it's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on sundance don't miss it listen to the move the sticks podcast on the i heart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

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