NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - MNF Recap; Trade Tsunami Hits

Episode Date: October 22, 2019

A room filled with heroes- Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler, Chris Wesseling, and Gregg Rosenthal recap the Patriots slaughtering the Jets in an upsetting to watch MNF game (3:29). The heroes recap all the latest news in the NFL including the Pats trading for Sanu (17:30), Emmanuel Sanders going to the 49ers (22:30) and the Texans trading for Gareon Conley. (26:31) Joe Thomas and Andrew Hawkins stop by to chat all things Browns and JJ Watt's cabin (33:21) and then Marc goes through his "Assistant Coach of the Year Rankings" (55:26) . Stick around for a preview of the revenge game of all revenge games! (1:04:23)Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast. The Danny Tartable of Podcast. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast presented by the United States. Reencore, my name is Dan Hanzas, and I'm joined in a room filled with heroes. Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosenthal.

What is up, boys? Hey, Dan. That is one of the most random and delightful intros we've had. Danny Tartable, you know, for most of our listeners, who might not be familiar, a powerful, you know, somewhat memorable, you know, well-known and popular, I would say, but not like one of the great sluggers in baseball from the 80s and 90s. I find it odd because I'm on a text threat. with a bunch of guy friends,

and Danny Tartable has been a source of jokes at least once or twice a week for 20-plus years. Good numbers, but not ultimately a winner. That describes us pretty well, actually. A Yankee. That's good. He was a Yankee. In fact, the salary structure doesn't hold anymore in the league,

but about seven or eight years ago, Mark, in our early days here at this company, five years, $25 million became kind of like a joke. Oh, yeah. It was a cursed... contract, if you signed a five for 25, you would fail. Well, Danny Tardable signed a five for 25 with the Yankees in 92 and failed. Neil O'Donald.

Neil O'Donald signed five for 25 with the Jets in 96. That also failed. Anyway. I had, what, 500 RBI seasons in his career? Not bad player. And a cameo on Seinfeld. Yeah. The five of us, including Ricky, are going to sign a five-year $25 million at the NFL.

That will not fail as long as the money hits the checking account. I'm ready for that. All right, big show today. And by the way, this is purely, and I'm just being up front with my colleagues and the listeners. This is a run-out-the-clock situation today for the old Zucer after Monday night football.

Don't really want to be here. I mean, we sense that. Total pro. I'm here. The game was a run-out-the-clock situation after about a quarter. It sure was. So I'm not happy.

I mean, I sent my son to school yesterday morning in a San Darnal jersey. it was it was my father keith's birthday um i was looking forward to that game as were many jets fans so we'll get into all that this is a run out the clock situation all right coming up on today's show joe thomas and andrew hawkins uh former teammates on the browns good buddies and now co-hosts of the tomahawk uh podcast uh the tomahawk show i should call it which is uh on the uninterrupted network, but you can get it wherever you get your podcasts.

They will join us in a little home-in-home. Greg and Mark will do their show on Sunday, and Joe and Andrew will be on with us later on. That'll be a fun combo. Also, Mark wrote a banger on his assistant coach of the year rankings. We'll check in with that and see who's in the lead. I got a good feeling about Sala, Sala, Sala, Sala, Sala. Might not be wrong.

We'll preview Thursday night football. between the Redskins and Vikings. We'll keep that one pretty quick, Greg. Two minute drill. Two minute drill on that one. We got some news to hit, including three trades. But before that, yes, it's a run-out-the-clock Tuesday. So let's talk about Monday night football.

Takes the step. The Jets rush forward. Brady, lobs a throw. Down the right-side for a short set. Open, touchdown, Patriots. What a beautiful throw by TV 12. Night night. I can call plays.

him up here. Bob Sosie and another guy for the Patriots Radio Network from the first drive of the game, which I believe lasted about 74 plays for 80 yards and a touchdown, through that door set touchdown, and then some more. The Patriots

dominate the New York Jets, start to finish. 33 Zip the final, a game in which Tom Brady had all day to make decisions and did a lot of his thinking and dunking and it worked quite well but the story was the defense for the New England Patriots

which continues to play at a historic level the Jets obviously as you can tell from the final score were able to do nothing in fact they managed just 154 total yards on the game or average less than three yards per play and Sam Donald suffered through the worst game of his life, 11 for 32, 86 yards, no touchdowns, four interceptions, and a lost fumble, pass a rating of 3.6.

So as one-sided, a football game, as you'll ever see on Monday night football, not a good look for the Jets, and the pats are 7-0. I think Bill Belichick is loving coaching this defense. I think that was maybe a little lost in the offseason. they lose the defensive coaches, maybe not the worst thing in the world, that Bill Belichick has a more hands-on experience with this group. Sometimes he's calling the plays. Maybe most of the time he's not,

but he has a group of guys that have been there for the most part. He had 20 guys play 20 plus snaps last night. I think that's, I've mentioned these stats like this pretty often, but they have such a deep roster that they can use for who they want on different plays. They all are so smart that they can execute any plan depending on the weekend. And in this plan, he had a lot of fun throwing these zero blitzes at Sam Darnold where if you've got Gilmore and the McCordy brothers in the back, you can get wild and test the Jets offensive line, which has been banged up, test Adam Gase and Sam Darnold's ability to protect. And they just had absolutely no answer. And I think if you're a Jets fan, the biggest concern is that they didn't come up with answers during the game.

It got worse. And not that they gave up by any means, but there was no fight. to them. They sort of got knocked out early, and then they couldn't come up with any way to counter. Well, this Patriots defense is doing things we are unlikely to ever see again. One touchdown allowed versus 18 interceptions. That's a passer rating of 35.6. If you just throw the ball into the ground every time, it's a 39 passer rating. You're never going to see a 1 to 18 interception ratio over seven-game span. I don't care who's playing quarterback. It's been a bad schedule as far as the other teams, the quality of play.

But you have to go back many, many years to different eras of football to see a stretch like that. The 89-90-49ers are the last team over seven-game span with a 1 to 18 TD interception ratio. I just watch Belichick and feel like that there were added challenges coming into this season because they are on paper, undermanned on the offensive line. They're undermanned at skill positions, the wide receiver position, the tight end position post-Gronkowski. And on defense, it's not a ton of stars by NFL standards, but it is the perfect soup for Bill Belichick to put on a weekly master class, which is tiring to many viewers, except for the fact that I don't want to listen to the concept that they aren't playing real NFL teams because I don't think we're going to find out two months from now. That doesn't matter.

I have no issues thinking this team will go 16 and 0. I don't care who you roll out there in front of them. They're going to operate at a completely different level. And watching the Jets, Joe Douglas is a promising general manager. I just had to wonder what he was thinking on the Adam Gase front. Is this the guy that you ride with, Adam Gase, from now until the end? No final answers right now. But to your point, Greg, Adam Gase was hired as an experienced head coach to do this,

to come out of halftime and counter Bill Belichick and stop some of the bleeding even with a lesser roster and from Adam Gase's post-game pre-game persona in general to how he's in-game coaching. I'm concerned if I'm Joe Douglas.

You should be. Everyone connected with the jet should be concerned with how they came out because the scariest thing if you're following the Jets here is how great they looked against the Cowboys and how great Darnold looked.

You can't. hanging on, oh, well, he's coming back from Mono and all that, because we saw last week that he was, in fact, he was named the AFC offensive player of the week. And yes, there is the, you know, big storyline that rippled through social media and became a huge story today that he's miced up for sound, Darnold on the sideline, and you hear him say to himself that he was seeing ghosts, which a nice little unique twist. There's always a little extra twist of The Knife is a Jets fan. That becomes the dominant story around this game.

It makes Darnold look weak to a lot of people. And Steve Weish, who's a voice in this building that we all quite respect. He said it today on NFL Network. That's going to stick with Darnold forever. And that was just the cherry on top of the game from a Jets perspective. And I think for Darnold coming out of this game, as poorly as he played, and he played terribly. The decisions he was making, it was. was like a different guy. I mean, I couldn't, I was watching the game in a state of shock with some

of the decisions he was making. He was clearly rattled, uh, which he acknowledged he handled himself well after the game. But this cover zero blitz, which Dan Orlovsky at ESPN was saying this morning is both historic and general generational to him. He couldn't figure out how to handle it. And it's a big test now for Donald going forward because there is a fear that every Jets fan has, whether they're speaking it or not, that this will be a turning point for Donald. and then when Darnold does not make it, oh, the Patriots got the Jets again. Never forget what happened on prime time when he saw Ghost.

He needs to rise above it. I believe in him. I think he's a truly special town who had a dreadful night and he has to find his way out of it. It's a big challenge for him. I'm not worried that he said he's seeing ghosts, if anything, that shows some self-awareness. I think there's some people who, like a quarterback in that position,

would be so shell-shocked that they can't even be honest and communicate their weakness. That doesn't show any weakness. that's just being real. He just happened to have a microphone on him. But the concerning thing to me was the second half play. You know, the one of the interception he threw in the end zone, he was protected well.

You know, they picked up the blitz, and he threw off his back foot, you know, sensing the pressure. And you saw a lot of that in the second half where, not that he was checked out, but they had won that game against him mentally because on the plays that they were protecting him, he was still making really bad decisions. But you give credit, you know, a lot of the credit obviously goes

of the game plan that the Patriots in Belichick has. They've made bad offenses, and I guess the Jets, you know, in two of the three games, Darnold has started, has been a bad offense. They made bad offenses look, you know, historically bad. I am curious to see now that they're going to face the part of this schedule, that they play some good offenses. I don't think it's going to, you know, continue at this rate,

but they're still going to be a load to deal with and still maybe the best defense. It bothers me that we need Darnold to be a plug-and-play superstar already. I think there's some of this going on this season with, Baker Mayfield when he struggles to that we've forgotten that playing quarterback that you know we have other quarterbacks that are in their fourth and fifth season starting to show some of the traits you want to see and a lot of it is the overly long off season where expectations around a Sam Darnold or around a Baker Mayfield or Josh Allen or whoever we want

them to be completely prepared and ready to go as you know Steve Young 1994 right now and it's going to take years. I am appalled at some of the overreaction to Darnold's performance when he is essentially still playing his first season as a quarterback. The Rocky Mountains have weather swings of up to 90 degrees in a single day. That's what you get with young quarterbacks. You know, you can look like the AFC player of the week one week and then look like a guy who makes your fan-based question him the next week. All young quarterback see ghosts. And a lot of veteran quarterback seat ghost this thing's overblown and it's because it's a fun like descriptive term that conjures up a striking image and really has the twin benefit of allowing the user to sound like a

Ron Jaworsky level quarterback expert at the same time throwing shade at your rival team for a quarter you know just insinuating your quarterback might not have the it fact well it's also just dominance you don't normally see at the NFL level so people are fascinated by that they've gone 40 36 straight possessions without scoring on the Patriots. They didn't score on offense once in either of their two games against the Patriots. So it's seeing something you don't normally see at the NFL level, but they'll move on. Like, I don't expect this to leave a lasting. I mean, Belichick hates the Jets, I think, as much as anything that exists on our planet.

You're probably right about that. Adam Gase, for what it's worth, is furious that Sam Darnold's comment to himself was put on national television. Let's hear what Gase had to say during his Tuesday press conference. I know once a year I have to do the same thing. I mean, it's just kind of part of the deal. And, you know, obviously, you know, you're never anticipating something like that happening. And the fact that it did just gives us just gives us pause to really cooperate anymore because, I mean, I don't know how we can allow, you know, our franchise quarterback

to be put out there like that. There's an understanding with these situations. He is the golden boy of the Jets organization. They give you access. The Jets give ESPN and NFL films access to Darnold. In return for that access, you need to make sure you don't do something that could haunt this kid for the rest of his career,

which is what they did. And what seems what has the Jets so angry is that you can't point at ESPN and be angry and say, how could you do this? there is a process and it was reported this morning that NFL Films is directly involved to the point where NFL Films is on site and they clear what goes to ESPN and part of that job I would imagine every week is filtering out things that could be harmful to a player or team this gets through and again I even thought later as fascinating as it was when you have

mic'd footage of Gace and Donald face to face Gase trying to talk his young quarterback into snapping out of it. I felt that to be incredibly intimate and overly intimate and invasive, what should have been a private moment between coach and player was blasted out because the game was a blowout and ESPN needed something to juice it up.

I understand why people want that kind of stuff, but when it's happening to your team or your organization, you understand why nobody's going to want to do it going forward. I think NFL films and ESPN will rue the day that they handled this the way they did. I think there's probably regret. I also not worried about Sam Darnold, like, letting it bother him.

Like, if that, if that becomes... Doesn't seem like it killed him. If it said the right thing. Right. I mean, if it becomes something that, like, hurts his career, he wasn't the guy to begin with. He just doesn't seem like that type of... I think most of the people that get to the point that Sam Darnold are not that type of guy. It's something that if you're gays or you're the Jets, you want to protect your guy.

But ultimately, like, he's a big boy. He's going to handle a lot big, like, bigger problems than that. this, like the, you know, on a weekly basis. I'd argue that he put the mono narrative, which was generating all sorts of giggles from a bunch of wit crackers and hobby horses online, to bed with the Cowboys game. Whitt crackers. But that's Donald's attached, when you were a young quarterback and you get drafted by a franchise that has been a laughing stock and there's four or five of these teams out there

and a lot of those holes were addressed last two drafts ago, Donald's going to have to be the mentally strong guy that puts up with the next thing that happens. And I totally see a guy in all of his media availability that is not some drama queen that's going to rise and fall with this. He's got to peer past it. And we live in a society right now that will completely, yes, it can stick to the Jets because things do.

It can be forgotten with three or four good games or a nice month by Donald because that's what he is. Who cares about this moment with Gase in the end? He's not some hot house flower. Bingo. Nice night for my Stefan Gilmore for defensive player of the year. Each week, stack them up. How many?

He probably doesn't even deserve it, but the narrative is starting to build at least that it makes sense because he's kind of the representative of this secondary. You could argue just as strongly for Jamie Collins or Devin McCordy. Or even Kyle Van Nuoy. A couple of votes for Kyle Van Nuoy. Who's beating this team? I mean, you get Tom Brady to move his feet.

Get Tom Brady to move his feet. move his feet. He's not moving well at all. We'll talk about it in one second. We're going to, you know, we're going to talk about the trade. This is the worst Patriots offense in more than a decade, and they showed it again. All right. Let's get into that. Let's go move away from Monday Night Football, never to speak of it again, and do some news. All right, New England Patriots, you'll notice, yes, as Greg is alluding to, even in a blowout of the jets, everything is dink and dunk. It is not an explosive offense. And with Josh Gordon out, it wasn't going to be a downfield attack, really. But they need somebody. to stretch the field, which is not Muhammad Sanoo, but he is a competent guy that's been in the league for a while that can make plays and is right in that Bill Belichick model right down to his Rutgers lineage. So the Pats pull the trigger on a deal.

They get Sanoo from the Falcons in exchange for a second round pick. Rapsheet reported Tuesday morning. New England had previously made a move for Sanoo during the 2019 draft, but Atlanta held off. Atlanta is now in the tank. They're looking forward. so they say goodbye to Sanoo, and we'll get into the value of the deal, because I feel like the Falcons did a great job here.

But let's start where you were heading, Greg, on what he does for the offense and a Patriots offense that needs help. He gives them some versatility. All I could think watching them the last few weeks is they are a Julian Edelman away from being a bad offense. Right now they're okay. They're 13th in DVOA. They're 21st in yards per play.

You know, they did not. They had the ball 14 different times last night. they had 320 yards. I mean, that's kind of what I've expected. Everything is hard. Everything is a five-yard gain. They don't have good left tackle play. Hopefully they get Isaiah win back.

They don't have anything really down the field. Sunu gives them diversity. Mike Reese pointed out how in the Giants game, they ran the same personnel package, the whole second half. Last night, they only had two personnel packages. One of them had two undrafted rookies in it. Jacobi Myers is playing well,

but you don't necessarily. The other one had two tight ends. they signed that week and that's it and that's not taking i think tom brady looks pretty good overall because you're not taking advantage of what he does well and that's putting a lot of different personnel groups out there and then him being able to pick the mismatch and beat you before the snap when you're that limited and you have no versatility you're not going to do it so sinew adds another guy over the middle that they can use and they might not be done yet this is the perfect NFL trade i like it for both teams it's a respective veteran with super bowl experience a glue guy a gadget play

skill set, which Josh McDaniels will fall in love with, saves Bill Belichick from using that second round pick on a cornerback who will sit the bench for two years, and to get flipped to the Titans or Lions for a conditional seventh. Josh McDaniels have probably taken for a wildcat spin in the next couple of weeks, put those trick plays on ice until a divisional round where he picks up a key first down, and then he'll collaborate with Edelman on a double throwback, reverse flea flicker's Statue of Liberty, with a hook and ladder to a streaking Rex Burkhead. for the game when he's scored to beat Aaron Rogers in the Super Bowl.

Love it. Everybody's happy. But this is another instance of a seller's market. Look at the Falcons once got Tony Gonzalez for the same price. Right. And then he went on to four Pro Bowls, made the Hall of Fame, and Bill Belchick was using Gunner coverage on him in the Red Zone. I've never thought the Patriots made any decisions based on that the end might be coming

for Tom Brady until maybe this move. You know, just that, hey, we really need something this year. a chance this year. We only have so many years. And so I think the value makes sense. They're going to have Sunu next year as well. And so it's not just a one-year move on a very cheap contract. I think they just continue to pound away to position the needs help. You could have said that about acquiring Josh Gordon last year that they're seeing the end of Tom Brady. I think it's a position group that New England's going to treat this process differently than other teams. It was a raging weakness. It's on the edge of being one if they had more injuries. They

They continue to produce, and they're slowly turning that position group into a strength. Healthy Gordon, Edelman, and Mohamed Sanoo is an awesome wide receiver group if they're all playing. Dorset. I mean, Dorset's been their most. And the fact that it's going to be, they, I don't think they're going 16 and O, but who's their, like, who's scaring them in the AFC right now? Right now. Well, the AFC is a hot mess right now. Right now, to me, it's not that important, but I think the Ravens, the Texans, and the Chiefs are

all very scary long term. That one or two of those teams at their best, they're scary, but I can already see it now that we're going to get a Baltimore, New England playoff matchup where Belichick is going to relish and totally thrive in the concept of preparing for the Ravens for one week

and allowing seven points. Like, this is a different organization than any 31 other organizations. Absolutely. This is the best defense that they've had since 01 or 03. I'm not ready to put them above those groups at all because I think you have to see them against better teams and the talent and the talents out there.

But where you are going to see them, they do play the Ravens, Texans, and Chiefs coming up. They play the Eagles and the Cowboys. Those are their next game. So after the Browns game this week, which I also think has its dangers too. We'll talk about that later. I just think if the Jaguars and the cults

can shut down the Texans who are hot and cold when they're hot, they're hot, yes, the Patriots can too. These challenging games that are coming up on the slate, there's no bigger challenge than trying to out dual Bill Belichick over the course of the three-day preparation, period. Another wide receiver trade to hit here. The Broncos are trading wide receiver Emmanuel Sanders to the San Francisco 49ers. The Niners are sending a third and a fourth

round pick in the upcoming draft to Denver, who are also including a 20-25th round pick with Sanders in the deal. Sanders, 32 years old, came back from an Achilles injury suffered just last December, but had a really nice year, last year before going down. And despite playing with Joe Flacko, which presents all sorts of challenges for a wide receiver. He's been productive this season as well, not all pro productive, but still seems to have it. So this seems to me, Chris Wessling, like a nice pickup for the Niners. Yeah, still moving really well in and out of his breaks, being a little outproduced by Cortland, or a lot outproduced by Cortland Sutton. But he's also drawing more coverage than Cortland Sutton, which may explain some of those numbers.

Nikki Hala of the Athletic Had an interview with Kyle Shanahan in December of last year And he called Sanders one of the most underrated receivers in the league A true number one since he's been in Denver Extremely quick knows how to separate Can Beat Man Coverage and is fearless He's been a big Emmanuel Sanders fan for a long time They've been playing four to five wide receivers

All about the same amount of snaps Dante Pettis, Devo Saniel, Kendrick Bourne Goodwin Now they've got one that they know they can count on each week and it didn't cost much at all. I saw some people like, oh, well, no wonder the Eagles didn't trade for him. That was a heavy price. He would have gotten a compensatory third round pickback for them anyways.

He might get that for the 49ers. They just traded, what, a fourth or a third and a move down from the fourth and a fifth, and you might get the compensatory pickback. They almost got him for nothing. That's a great move. I do wonder if this completely shuts the door on the Bengals moving A.J. Green, because there were people linking the Niners with A. Jay Green.

And you have to imagine because that front office in San Francisco goes for it. They really wanted O'Dell Beckham in the offseason. Did they try? And are the Bengals just saying, we're not giving this guy away, even though there's probably no way that. On this podcast, that trade will never happen. The Bengals will never do anything fun for the league. I believe CBS is Jason.

Jay Green is not going to be traded. Right. Lockinfora is saying it's not going to resign with him. It's not happening. It's not going to trade him. 31 years old. Many, many, many foot problems over the last. few years. His value will probably, he's never going to be able to draw like a first

or second again probably. I don't know. He, uh, he's also not going to resign with that team three months from now. He's also not returning until after the trade deadline, which I read that report as, you know, it's, I know you've gotten on Jalen Ramsey a lot. I don't think it's that sort of situation. I think AJ Green is smart. He's not going to return from the injury until he's absolutely ready and he's going to see if he gets traded first. There's no season to save, yes, for the Bengals. It's so much like the Redskins refusing to trade Trent Williams. Both players pass their primes.

Neither one is going to be on the next good team for that franchise. The NFC is so awesome with the 49ers being kind of the new blood there that you can see six different teams going to the Super Bowl. And the 49ers and Cowboys are two of the ones near the top for me. And those are just like, those are spicy. Well, yeah, and the cost comes in the AFC, which has got a heaping mound of milk toast operations trying to make the playoffs. A third and fourth round pick for senators.

That's what I would have guessed if someone said, oh, Mosunegu got traded to the Pats. That's what I, just circling back there real quick. I thought that was a great trade. Atlanta, he's essentially their third receiver. And you get a second round pick, which is gold in the NFL. I mean, it's a good trade for them too. It's going to be the back end of the second round,

if not the very back end. But yeah. That's all right. I think it's a good trade for both. I think it's fair. All right. Another trade. Gary and Conley, the Raiders cornerback, a first round pick in 2017.

He was the guy that got stretchered off in week one with a neck injury but was able to get back on the field. He is now a member of the Houston Texans. The Texans shift a 20-20 third round pick to the Raiders for the cornerback. This is a deal that once again, Mark, shows Bill O'Brien going all in on his team right now. giving up that third rounder they acquired in the Clowny trade. They go get Conley, who has not played up to expectations, but O'Brien sees them as somebody who will upgrade their secondary now. Yeah, they lost Bradley Robey for another month or so,

if not a little bit less than that. Lonnie Johnson is the worst ranked player on their entire defense, according to PFF. They needed a lot of help in the secondary. I wouldn't be surprised to see them make another deal for this, because I think you're right. Bill O'Brien is kind of in what I love, gigantic F.U. mode. You don't like the way that I'm running this team. I'm going to keep doing it my way. And if we're okay with the Bill Belichick's of the world making nonstop moves,

maybe Bill O'Brien is not as crafty a tradesman as Bill Belichick is, but I kind of think if you're a Texans fan, you can at least live in the comfort zone of knowing my team goes for it. We're not going to sit on aging assets and not move them or not try to go get the guys that can improve right away. Their offensive line is vastly improved because of that tonsill trade. We're not going to draft anyone in 2019. Well, but more and more teams are doing that. We're calling that the wave of the future.

If the Rams do it, we crown them with Reed. No, well, it's different. Gary and Conley struggled. I mean, Gary and Connolly, this was... I'm not saying Gary and Connolly's the answer is just that why not go for it. No, I agree with that, but it was an emotional trade. Gary and Connolly had an awful Sunday, and they traded him the day after. the Texans lost two different cornerbacks in the last two weeks to injury.

Philip Gaines is on IR and Roby's hurt. They needed someone to play. You know what? That's code words again, Greg. What? An emotional trade. That's a way of saying that O'Brien didn't think out. I'm talking about them the Raiders end, that Conley had a terrible game and they traded him.

I can buy it from the Gruden angle where he's like, you know, this guy's out the house. The reason I was going to come to Bob's defense here, Bill O'Brien, was he, I'm giving him a little bit of the benefit of the out because he's been pretty good the last few months. Cruden, I could totally see that. He traded Clowny for Conley, basically. He got a third round pick for Clowny, and he used it for Conley. We knew in August they were desperate at running back. They were desperate on the offensive line, and they were desperate in the secondary.

And they fixed running back in offensive line. They're still desperate in the secondary. This doesn't fix anything, I don't believe. All right. Finally, in the news. The Raiders closing in on the Super Bowl championship. Back to pass. Throw the sideline of pecked up.

It's going to be a touchdown. Willie Brown. Forty-five, 40, 35, 30, 30, 25, 20, 25, 20, old man Willie. Old Man Willie, yes, one of the indelible images in the history of the NFL shot by NFL film cinematographer, Ernie Ernst, was Willie Brown. Ernie. It's in Super Bowl 11 with the pick six that clinched the Raiders' first ever Super Bowl title. John Madden on the sideline, Hal Davis, the king of the world at that time.

And Willie Brown passed away on Tuesday at the age of 78. Had a great career over 16 seasons. One of the great ball hawks, he was known as the godfather of the bump and run, played 12 of his 16 seasons with the Raiders, nine-time pro bowler, five-time All-Pro, 1984 Hall of Fame enshrinee. And, Wes, you will not. hear anyone say a bad thing about Brown who stayed connected to the football and the Raiders for his entire life. And he is one of those guys. If you grew up a little bit, you know, guys a little

older than us if you, and women and women, if you grew up watching the NFL and watching NFL films, Willie Brown and those Raiders teams, they stick with you. He had such a long story career. The best cornerback in AFL history. And then when the merger happens, and John Madden's there. He's in Oakland for the entire John Madden era in which the Raider, Steelers, and Dolphins ruled the AFC. And he's on that franchise as Mount Rushmore, I think.

Growing into a football fan around age 11, 12, in my case, some kids, you know, we have kids that are watching football a lot more than I was when I was young because of the place that we work. And I always wonder what they're going to think and remember about the stars of today. You've got another couple years with Tom Brady,

Some of these guys that you were watching clips of who are already essentially out of the league, they know who Joe Montana is by name. But Willie Brown was someone that growing up, when I started to dig into the history of all these teams and read about these weird seasons from the 60s and 70s, Willie Brown's name on highlights, too, would come up over and over and over. And it's almost just because of our age that we don't really remember him in the flesh is one of the biggest NFL stars around. Yeah, he's inner circle Hall of Fame.

They should create that. You know, he would be up there of the top five or six cornerbacks. He has five first-team all-pros and a couple more second-team all-pros. That is special stuff. He also had a four-interception game against the New York Jets. So talk about your pain rings. Even back in the 60s. Old Dick Wood and Mike Talia Farrow were intercepted four times while Brown was a member of the Broncos.

Greg, to dig deep for that painful statistics. Not necessary today. Wes, a little impromptu game of win Wes's toaster in a big spot. Uh-oh. Willie Brown, like I said, cinematographer Ernie Ernst for NFL films captures the runback at super slow motion. One of the great images. Pick six, Super Bowl 11. Who threw the pass?

Super Bowl 11. I don't know. Rand Tarkinton. All right. Vikings teams in there. That's a tough question. Right now, my sons are obsessed with Rocky right now. Right now, you haven't gotten the eye of the tiger back.

You need Apollo to come and say, come on, man, you're blowing it. And you need to start running on the beach together. Well, I'm as rusty as Melvin Gordon, so you'll have to go back to that one. Yeah, the toaster also still belongs to Dave Damasek. All right, yes, Willie Brown passes away at the age of 78. All right, that's what's happening in the news. All right. we teased it at the beginning of the show

and now here it is we're very excited it's a it's a crossover here a home and home if you will yes the great Andrew Hawkins and Joe Thomas from the Tomahawk show from the uninterrupted world welcome to the

around the NFL podcast boys well thank you for having us guys quite the honor here this is this is going to take a little bit of time for us to get this rhythm down we're in like seven different locations doing this podcast But it is long overdue.

We've tried to step this up so many times. So it's a pleasure to finally be here on the round NFL. Yeah, your producer, of course, is TD, who once upon a time produced our show here at NFL Media. As his profiles grown across the country. And I did mention uninterrupted. I just want to start here. When you guys come to that company, is there a sit-down with LeBron where you pitch the show? Have you had any deep conversations with Mr. James?

yeah it was like a recruiting process so you know we had official visit uh lebron bought us the hummer um just to get everything kicked off and from there we had a big bag of cash that he dropped off at joe's house in wisconsin something that joe was used to class um as his top recruit so and here we are man it's been bliss ever since he actually came to my mom's house and he sat down on the couch and he explained why uninterrupted was the right choice and i said well you know what you got to do mr lebron you've got to show us the money. We don't go anywhere for free. This brings back memories of the film Blue Chips

starring Nick Nulte and Shack. Exactly. That's pretty similar. All right. So, you guys, your show is like our show. You talk about football. You talk about the Browns probably more than you should. And you do it with a little bit of mirth.

So why don't we get into some discussion? And, Wes, do you want to get us going here on some football talk with the Cleveland Browns? I do because I have questions in need of answers. we really thought this Brown's offense was going to be dynamic, you know, with O'Dell Beckham providing that spacing, Baker making his offensive line look better last year, throwing receivers open, and they've kind of been the opposite of that. Against a pretty tough schedule, do you guys see this as an offense that's fixable the rest of the way? I was going to say, if you could just direct the question at one of us, that would be very helpful since we're in two different locations, and it looks like you're looking at both of us. Sorry.

So, yeah, so to answer your question, I think we all thought the Browns offense was going to be a lot different than what we saw in the first part of the season. But I think when you added O'Dell, you added such a deep threat, which was kind of missing last year. And I think they really thought early on in the season, okay, we need to push the ball down the field. We need to get the ball in O'Dell's hands. And so they were scripting a lot of plays trying to move the ball down the field with deep throws. And I think that kind of disrupted the rhythm a little bit. And Baker got out of that rhythm that he was in towards the end of last year doing a lot of the RPO's and the quick passes and getting the running game going. And I think it led to some inconsistency.

And that was pretty much throughout the entire offense. You saw a lot of inconsistency. And it was only the games that they were able to really efficiently run the football that Baker was able to kind of get into a rhythm. And I think they've done some self-scouting in the by week. And I think we're going to see a lot different offense coming out of the by week going into New England next week. and you're going to see a renewed focus on a lot of those quick passes. Hawk talked about it a ton on our podcast. Like, let's get some of those easy completions.

Let's get some slants. Let's get some of those easy routes and put the ball in the playmaker's hands on the edge, give Baker those high completion percentage throws and run the football. And then the deep shots, they'll be there. They'll open up. The defense can't cover everything. They can't take away your run game, your short passing, and your deep stuff. So let the deep stuff happen within the flow of the offense.

Get Baker in that running game going. And I think that's what we'll see in the next. half of the season. If you're a team and you know that next up we've got the Patriots and they've been the same team essentially in terms of being an imposing opponent for like 17 decades in a row, if you're the Browns or you're a team that's struggling to find yourself, do you look at the matchup with Bill Belichick as a player and just say sometimes, and I'm not talking about Freddie Kitchens, but maybe you've been on a couple Brown's teams that had some suspect coaching going on. Our guys simply cannot match up with Bill Belichick. How do we stand a chance?

this game or do you have to put put the horse blinders on and just say we do have a chance how real how realism where does realism play when you deal with new england i i think that no matter what in the nfl you always do have a chance i mean i know that's a cliche we always say but it's true i mean everybody is getting paid everyone's under contract and for bill belichick the thing it becomes is more of like the coaches the coaches have to feel like they have a chance the browns are talented no the offense hasn't looked great no the team has not looked incredible but they have talent. Their problem is they haven't found that cohesion as an offense, as a team.

They haven't established their strategy. It just seems like they're just throwing plays out there like they're playing Madden. And you can't do that against the New England Patriots and win. So if they can come out and say, hey, here's what we do best. Here's the plays we're going to start and call to set up these plays, understanding what the Patriots are going to give us and understanding what the Patriots are going to take away. Then I think it gives them a chance because man for man, the Browns are still. a very, very talented football team.

And if everybody comes to their A game, they will have a fighting stand. Joe, you were there, obviously, forever. And in the back half of your career, especially, there was so much churn at the head coach spot. And I would wonder how much that begins to press on a team. Now, I know when Dorsey's there, it feels like a different vibe around there, but they're coming out of the buy if things don't work out against New England and the season really starts to spiral. does that infect the clubhouse at a certain point, the locker room, once the speculation in the media starts ramping up?

Whenever there's speculation in the media about the job status of the head coach, it puts a lot of pressure and stress inside that locker room because then you don't really know who to align yourself with, right? Are you going to align yourself with the management that's going to still be there, or are you going to try to buddy up with the head coach and really defend him in the media? And so I think that puts the players in a difficult perspective or difficult situation. but I don't think that's going to be the situation here. You know, John Dorsey, he handpicked Baker Mayfield. That was the biggest decision he had to make so far since he was the GM. But the second biggest decision he had was who should he make the head coach? And he went out on a limb by hiring Freddie Kitchens and making him the head coach,

even though Freddie had no head coaching experience. And so to be able to take that type of risk, I think he's got a lot invested in Freddie. And he wants to see this thing through. I think he understands that there's going to be some growing pains when you're dealing with a rookie head coach. And I think they've built up enough capital with the good things that John Dorsey has done since he's been there, that they're going to be able to fend off any speculation or rumors that will swirl in the media about the status of Freddie Kitchens. And I think for the most part, people are going to believe John Dorsey when he says, you know what, Freddie Kitchens is my guy. I still believe in him.

I like the things he's doing. And I think for the most part, that should shut down any rumors or anything that could swirl around Freddie Kitchens' job status. Because I truly believe from the Hasams to John Dorsey, they want this to be. be a long-term thing with Freddie Kitchens and they don't want to be pulling the trigger after one season like they've done with Rob Chisinski and when he was the head coach a few years ago and with some of these other coaches that they've got rid of quickly they want to be the stable franchise like the Pittsburgh Steelers are as two of the great Cleveland Browns of all time I mean are you still like communicating with the team and the coaches do you have a lot of feelers out there

you're hearing from them sparrows hawk when are they retiring your number by the way I'm waiting to get into the ring of honor um that should be seen you know I'm the I'm the most efficient receiver they've had there since they've come back. That's that alone. I'm hoping to propels me. You can find a sad. He'll say anything, I guess, right? Yeah.

So that's a big deal. I'm also the shortest receiver they've had. The list goes on and on, guys. Joe is the expert on getting coaches fired. I'm glad you asked Joe that question because he's the expert on getting coaches fired. For Freddie Kitchens, he was really in a no-win situation, right? Like he comes in with a team with all this hype.

either A, they are good and they say, well, yeah, that's because the roster is so good. Or B, they don't play well and it's, oh, he's a rookie head coach, he doesn't have enough experience. So I actually think for Freddie Kitchens' career, this was the best case scenario because now that we see that, oh, this is going to be harder than everyone's suspect, if he can turn it around, it will actually show what kind of coach he is and the kind of job that he's done there and not that it's just he had the best players, oh, it was an easy button for him. And it says right there on the Tomahawk show, of course, Joe Thomas and Andrew Hawkins, it says right there that 10 Pro Bowl bids between you.

Yeah, we've done our part, for sure. And two obscure movie cameos, but those are none on the Thomas side. No, he has a face for podcasting, so I stick in front of the camera for the most part. What are your movie cameos? I was actually in Iads of Mark. This is, like, when I was in the CFO, I was in Cincinnati and someone walked into a coffee shop. And they're like, hey, you want to be in a movie? I'm like, sure.

That's how it happens. You're going to play political intern number two. And there was actually a scene in the movie. I'm in there for like a split second where I'm just walking by at the beginning. But the one thing that I filmed, I was right in between George Clooney and Ryan Gosling as they were in this heated argument. And I was so excited because I was like holding the coffee. and he yells at me during the scene and I like rush off

and I'm like oh I'm about to be a movie star and of course it didn't make the film and there's no like deleted scenes on the DVD so that's a complete made up story to anybody I tell I know that Clooney and Gosselin are still talking about that encounter with you and upset also that it hit the cutting room floor no doubt

Joe you're a member of the NFL Network family we're going to ask you about Colleen Wolfe in a moment because we're wondering where she's at headwise, as her career is kind of risen beyond us. But I also, I know you spent a lot of time, obviously, in Wisconsin, not too much time in L.A. Have you been to J.J. Watts' log cabin yet? You know, that feels like the number one location that every male needs to get to before he

dies. That's actually how I was able to lose my weight and get my current physique. I spent a lot of time at J.J. Watts' cabin. And the great news is it's only a few minute drive from. Chicago so when I'm out of town I can just fly right into Chicago drive the five or six minutes out of downtown and there's the log cabin on 30 private acres in the middle of the city and I'm able to get a great workout in no matter where I am in the city so I heard I heard he bulldozed an orphanage to build it so well it wasn't technically an orphanage it was more of like a group home

but you know lives affected but no Colleen she you know Colleen we love her she's one of our closest friends here at NFL media and before she became the big TV star she used to be on the podcast a lot she still is she still is but do you reluctantly do you feel that that that that that's star power have you felt that around you and whether that's changed her as a personality yeah i'll fire off with a serious note for one second uh Colleen wolf has been an absolute joy to work with last year i didn't know what i was doing whatsoever i still don't know what i'm doing in media but i know a little bit more and I jumped on Thursday night football and she was the host and I was like starstruck right off the bat but she was so warm and welcoming and inviting and so helpful that uh it really

it meant a lot to me and so she's the true star of Thursday night football and I just feel blessed to be able to work with her however we can still tease her a little bit because after the show last week me Andrew Siciliano Steve Smith Colleen and then one of Andrew's friends tried to go to the local bar right right down the street from the hotel uh after the game to grab a beer, have some cornhole, share some stories, break some bread, and we got turned away by the bouncer at the door. We did not have enough star power to be able to get it to a half-empty bar in Denver on a Thursday night.

That's an outrage. Hit the big tip. I know me and Steve Smith were easy to turn away, but Andrew Ceciliano and Colleen Wolfe, they got to be able to get into the best nightclubs in Manhattan. Unheard of. It didn't happen in Denver that night. Oh, my gosh. Steve Smith was turned away by a bouncer.

How'd that go? It was actually really cool about it. He was like, all right, whatever, we don't have to come here. We're going to go somewhere else. Good for him. Bad bouncer work, though. Colleen's a triple threat, you know, a host, a podcaster. Joe, what do you think about the fact that Andrew is now breaking into the host mold?

We do a show together, game day view. There's a lot of crossover here between our podcast and yours. And now he's going like Frank Gifford. You don't see a lot of former players that are also the hosts of the show. you know kind of outshining you joe what do you think it is tough to work with andrew he has clearly left me at the laundromat in my media career because he is on a trajectory to the moon and back he's the next pet somerall i told him he's going to be doing like play by play with somebody that's actually talented some someday and uh i'll just be telling my

kids my grandkids that i knew him one at one point there's almost i've just used joe to catapult my media career flawlessly i thought he picked the wrong guy he should have picked lebron The guy that's got the office right next to him He could have used him And he would already be way above the Tomahawk show I feel like there's too much crossover going on right now It's like in Ghostbusters where they say don't cross the streams It could send us into another dimension if we do one more crossover

Like a West Joe Thomas offensive line breakdown That feels like that could be the final piece that we all just Disappear into nothing I usually Andrew calls me about 1130 at night when he's really tired But he can't sleep and he says hey Give me that XO breakdown of the O-line play from that game this morning because I'm really having a hard time sleeping.

So we always avoid O-line talk like the plague on this show. All right, good. The Tomahawk show, and this is a home-in-home, facilitated by TD, one of the great pickup basketball players in the history of Los Angeles. We call him never scored a T-D over here. Never scored a T-D. That's his nickname here, never scored a T-D.

Never scored a. Actually, I thought that was his name when I first met him because everyone just called him, never scored him. And I was like, how do you spell that? Never? Is it any VA or is it any V-E-R? TD, still catching it. On Sunday, Greg Rosenthal and Mark Sessler will be guests on the Tomahawk show. So I don't know where that leaves Wes and I, but whatever, I'll bury that.

And it will come out to a psychiatrist at something. I think you made the road. You actually requested, we requested all four. And they were like, well, you don't need these two. They're not that important to the show. We were like, okay, I guess. They let you run it. Erica, that ain't right.

that's fair um but yes uh check out the tomahawk show all the time but especially if you're if you want to try it for the first time you're gonna have two of the heroes on their week eight recap program and gentlemen like we said this this does feel right because you guys talk football you talk ball you mix in some pop culture and just a touch of the mirth and and that's why we're all brothers and uh and we fly together there you go man we're doing a live show yes before we go you guys just did a live show in london that was was an absolute smashing success. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We're doing a live show. Hall of Fame weekend. It's not really Hall of Fame weekend. But it is at the House of Blues in Cleveland.

The game is Thursday night football versus the Pittsburgh Steelers. Wednesday night, Tomahawk show. Can you give us any tips before our first live show? Wes. Drugs help. Drugs help. Okay. Yeah.

That's what House of Blues told us. I always just telling myself I'm walking into my. favorite bar and everyone there loves me because the crowd is stacked in your favor. They're going to love you. They're going to love all your jokes right away. It's a can't-fail situation. Yeah, it seems like Joe Thomas, Andrew Hawkins are going to play

well to a Cleveland-centric crowd. You've got that right out of the gate. I was smart on our part. I would say, yeah, a shot of Torado for each, just to just to keep it all school. It's funny because this will be the first Cleveland crowd that we've done together that actually does love

us because on Sundays, that was not. the case tough situation all right man thank you so much for joining us and again check out the Tomahawk

show every week it's a banger every time out thank you guys thanks guys thank you guys all right that was great

enjoyed it like those guys I think we could be friends with them I think we could have beers with them I think oh yeah

we should get a condo together maybe and we don't all live in the condo at the same time but we have like a set schedule where we always

you know oh this week, it's Andrew and West. Next week, it's Joe and Mark. Oh, look, it's a Dan and Joe week. Oh, Greg. Greg says he wants the condo to himself. No, that's fine. That's fine.

But then we'll have parties and we'll all be at the condo together. I don't know who loses. Joe pays for it. I find myself in a little bit of a little Debbie scenario where the three of you, I think, are having a very productive conversation with Hawk and Joe Thomas. And I'm still sitting there with the Browns fan of me being like, what am I doing talking? to Joe Thomas because he is a totally lovable, affable, professional,

and every time we've met with him, it's like this guy is the best. That's how I feel with Hawk. I was such a big fan of the reality show Fourth and Long hosted by Michael Urban, where Hawk made his name. I think that every time. People should check out, game debut, by the way. Every Saturday on NFL Network, me, Hawk, and Cynthia Freeland making picks twice on Saturday. That's a good plug.

And the Fourth and Long show, no one has been a bigger fan of the fourth of long program. I'm telling you, well, here's the thing. You have the master tapes? No one remembers it. I know I've brought it up. No one remembers it except Greg.

No, here's the thing. No one watched it at the time. No one else watched it except Greg. I'm not bragging. I don't know. It sort of sounds like it was like, it was like on a terrible network. What you people missed? What network was it on?

It was on like, it was on one that doesn't exist. Spike or something? Yeah, it was Spice. Guys first. It was Spike. It was a delightful show. Can we start team bag up for Hunter Renfro ever? every episode now?

Renfro's fine. I've moved on. I do like the small... It's also nice to have an NFL player that we work with that's my size, at least in terms of... That is delightful. Certainly not in terms of, like, you know, fitness.

We've got breaking news. Only six times faster than you. Breaking news. Chris West. I love when West delivers it. You know it's going to be good. Well, it's major injury news for the Detroit lines. Bad news.

Carry on Johnson had to go on IR with a knee injury that he suffered. Week 7. No, that's not good. He injured it, yes, he injured it this past Sunday. He showed him on the sidelines of the pants up with the brace on trying to walk it off, had a heavy limp and you had a bad feeling about it, but IR is a surprise. They've got fellow, they've got rookie Ty Johnson, J.D. McKissick, who's more of a gadget player,

and I believe they claim Paul Perkins off waivers from the Giants, but very suspect depth there at that position. For CJ Anderson, can't even get a sniff out. Everyone says, you know, running backs aren't important until you lose Carrie-on Johnson, and now their running game is not going to be wrong. Lions are in the movie. You know, in the movie where, like, there's the midway point where it's like a cast of adventures have to say goodbye to someone that's sort of sacrificing themselves in a heated moment

against some sort of mythical beast. I like we're quietly moving away from the Detroit Lions who've been left underneath the big boulder and are not going to be advancing with us onto the next stage. How about an easy schedule the next couple? couple weeks to stay relevant we tried we brought them along on the journey you know what the schedule softens up get a couple dubs in here we're not out we're just we're we're attuned to the reality situation that they've lost three in a row and now one of their most important players on offense right we're not we're not you know pointing fun at them or giggling at the whole

situation we don't we don't approve of it but it's the reality i'll always look fondly on that late september early october time when the lions were fun salad days all right one year Mark wrote a bangor. Absolute banger. I mean, I'll read the headline, and you tell me if you think it's a banger. Assistant Coach of the Year? Question mark?

Robert Sala tops competitive field. Now, I got a little business like in the back end of the headline. I'd like to keep it saucy all the way through. You didn't write it in there. How about Colin, you know, assistant coach of the year? Bang. Robert Sala. Why the question?

I think the question is asking, like, did someone actually pen an article about assistant coach of the year. They're still processing that as content providers, I think. So is this essentially in the slot reserved for what's grinding my gears with Mark Sessler? It is and like this is something that

I do care about. I do care about this topic. That was that. His weekly column is not what's grinding my gear. I mean, you have to. That was the old whistling this song. That wasn't what it was called. Old grind my gear. On my radar. I like I mean when Dan is going to present

anything that I do here, I just have to you know, kind of shoulder the concept that he's not read it, does not care about it, and only cares about anything with his own bylaw. Well, that's true. I am not reading anything about the NFL today, and I told you. It's a run-out-the-class situation. Which is the same thing that happened when I wrote my Brown's Longform. It happened after a Jets loss, and you refused to read that and still have not.

I enjoyed that piece quite a bit. You will at some point run out of excuses. I read that piece and enjoyed it quite a lot of Jets losses. All right. Here we go. let's soldier all right here we go let's get to it

Robert Sala I don't want to I want to save it because he's at the headline you can figure it out but let's start in the back end you got some honorable mentions Eric Washington's getting votes

Yeah I don't even know if we need to dig into that crew Norv Turner is getting some pop even But you got I got some questions Okay why don't I'm going to turn it over Chris Wesleying Why don't you like offense

Greg Roman has like turned the Ravens offense into a thing for the first time in franchise history. That's fine. And Kellynne Moore has the number one DVOA in the NFL. I would argue this. Here's what I would argue. Back it up.

This is, all these awards are optics and perception based. But you're the one writing the article. You're doing it. You can make your own. No, no, no. I'm arguing who is going to win it, I think. Is it a real award? I'm not even, I'm not joking here.

Yes. They actually give it out. We've been discussing it for half a decade. I thought it was kind of like your award. No, they started it. The 2014, they started it, yeah, five years ago. And there was the one year where Skarnakia got some serious votes, but he did not win it. And four of the five winners have gone on to become head coaches.

I really think to all. Right, and he's the one that did not. Who is the reigning assistant coach of the year? It is Vic Fangio. Pagio. Okay, Wes says that because on Mark's list, the top four. options right now. The leaders in the clubhouse and five of seven are all defensive-minded. I think for me, it's because of the, it's a shorter sample size. The Niners defense,

the Bill's defense, the Saints defense has been more consistent. I believe than the Cowboys offense. The Cowboys offense 10 weeks from now, Kellyn Moore is the perfect guy to win this award. And after three weeks I mentioned would have won it going away. I think that he's got competition. but I hear your point on Greg Roman for me with Greg Roman I would want to just see where they are a couple months from now But he's done it so far

I agree and that's why he's on the list Right he's on the list He would be in my top two Petten's been good but he's you know their defense's been a little up and out The fact that the Ravens have a top Five offense running it

in a different way than basically any offense And maybe Roman doesn't get credit for Lamar Jackson just scrambling Because the last couple of weeks, it hasn't all been called runs. You get credit for doing something that no one else is doing and that really no one else has ever done. How about that fourth and two call that swung that whole game? That's true.

A brilliant call. Leslie Frazier is an interesting one because I think he gets forgotten because his head coach feels like the defense coordinator. Yeah, well, I mentioned that. It's tough to win those awards when people are wondering whether it's McDermott or Frazier. Because it is McDermott, I think, ultimately, right? It's his defense and Frazier and. him make a great pairing.

You got Dennis Allen, who's done wonders with the Saints. This would be a sweep, I think, for the Saints, because it feels to me, unless Frank Wright goes and gets it, the coach of the, which is basic, if you track in Coach of the Year, screw you. It's about assistant coach. And you think that Peyton's going to win Coach of the Year probably. Now, is Dennis... I mean, it's early.

Is he going to swoop in where we are now? Dennis Allen swoops and grabs assistant coach of the year. That tells you a lot about why the Saints are so successful. Great staff. I'd be stunned if the Academy went with coach and assistant coach of the year, ACAQA, aka AICOE assistant coach of the year. Akoi. If they gave that to the same team,

because I am cynical enough just to not to believe in how a lot of these awards work, that that's not what they do. They're going to find a way to give a little piece of the pies to some different storylines. Well, you got Allen at number two right now, and you do have... Robert Salah would need to be kidnapped by, you. you know, an angry band of Taiwanese, you know, terrorists to not win this thing at this point. I mean, he could take them out. That sounds like John Wick, you know, sounds like an action movie.

Shala would be a good action movie hero. Is it Sala or Sala? I kind of the way, I like the way, the second way you said. I don't think that's how it is. Sala done to Taiwan. Well, here's the thing. That's a question to be answered. Bark, as you often say, and you said it earlier, this can be narrative-based.

Although you would think assistant coach of the year is underground enough where it would be maybe more pure than the MVP, which is a bit of a soap opera. You love getting to the narrative, but what are the terrible award picks that have been narrative-based over the last few years? Comeback Player of the Year, I am 100% agree with you. It's all narrative.

I think what they do a lot of times is... That's part of it, though. MVP and Offensive Player of the Year to me feels like best picture, best director, where they find a way to give a little bit of everyone's love. Offensive Player of the Year is a joke. Why have that award?

That's, to Mark's point. Everybody gets a piece of the pie. I still don't understand what it means, or how it's figured out? Because I'm a man of... The acoy. Of character. I don't even vote

for offensive player of the year when they do that little NFL.com writer things. I refuse. You refuse. You sleep well at night. Strong. I refuse. I used to say that...

I used to make a little point about how the award's stupid and they published that once, but then they just stopped doing that. So Sala, to the point of the narrative base, that was when we were in London. Who were they facing that week? There was the Rams.

That was his breakout performance. And you kind of need that big national moment to get on everyone's radar. And I think that has helped him a lot and the fact that the Niners are. I think that's a lot of it because the voters are not watching every one of these games. And let's be honest, like coordinator level coaching, we hear from these guys for 15 minutes a week. And the idea that we know what a coordinator is doing from Team A to Team B to Team C is ridiculous. It's an ultra mystery. So it's all image-based.

It's all ego. It's just like everything we do all the week. long. Yes, you could extend that to every bit of NFL announced. Right. Back-to-back primetime games for them in week nine and ten. I can already see it. We're in Fort Lauderdale in February. The 49ers are there and everyone's crowding around Sala in the crowd at Media Day because he's already, everyone knows he's already accepted the Falcons job or some other job. You can't exactly talk about it yet because they can't announce it, but he's a big story. I mean, a year ago, his defense recorded an NFL low, historical low, seven takeaways.

So, you know, hopefully we all can come back that way. It's not the X's and the Joe's. It's not the X's and the O's. It's the Jimmy's and the Joe's. I like that. And you want to talk about a clean sweep of the awards. I was going to say Sala, maybe best bod of assistant coaches? Uh-uh. You remember a guy named Dan Campbell once upon a time, the interim head coach of the Dolphins? Well, he's now the tight ends coach of the New Orleans. Orleans Saints. They can sweep the entire awards, including hottest body.

I wouldn't say their tight ends are killing it. No, hottest body, you won. Oh, okay. Well, what about, I didn't notice you didn't mention Steve Belichick or anyone from this, you know, historic Patriots defense. Explain to me what Steve Belichick is doing. I don't know. Who says it has to be a coordinator?

Is it Gerad Mayo calling the place? They've got like three, they've only had three coaches. Two of them are named Belichick. One of them's in charge of the secondary. They're the ones with the 18 interceptions. Oh, do you guys, what was really funny? You would go down memory lane this summer when Greg was trying to figure out things to be nervous about with the Patriots and he kept on going on to their homepage and be like, look, they don't have any assistant coaches under contract

because there was only four or five head shots. Remember that when you were worried about that? One of them is Brett Bielima. Remember when you thought that was something to be concerned about, the coaching staff being rounded out? It was partly a bit. That was real. If you went to Patriots.com, there was only like one picture. That panned out to be an extreme crisis for the,

I now do support a future where it's just Steve and Bill Belichick, McDaniels, and Skarnakia. Four-man coaching staff cut out the fat. Let's keep Mayo because he's a Patriot, you know, Hall of Famer. All right. One more quick game of Win West's Toaster before we get to Thursday night football. This is a long one. Oh, no. Chris.

Dan. Willie Brown, rest in peace. His iconic pick six return. You're really putting a lot of stock in this. Fran Tarkington. Slow-motion shot. Yeah. Running toward the end zone for the clinching score.

Uh-huh. Who was the NFL film cinematographer, cinematographer behind that shot? Oh, you should know this, Wes. I would say Steve Sable. On a broader scale, yes, but no. The exact. I've mentioned his name twice in today's show. Oh, Ernie Ernst.

That's correct. Give him the toaster back. The Big Earn! I can't remember that. How many guys are named Ernie Ernst? All right, let's get to it. The Washington Redskins at the Minnesota Viking Slaughter on Thursday night football, the skins,

one of the only winless teams left in the league. In fact, no, did they win? It counts if you beat the Dolphins. They beat the Dolphins. It counts in the standings. My apologies. Not in people's minds, really, but yeah. My mind, apologies to the Redskins.

They do have one win, but they got shut out at home. on Sunday, but, you know, they're playing a pig slop against the Niners, so we won't go too crazy about that, but they are a bad football team, and they head to Minnesota, a place where a U.S. Bank Stadium where the Vikings aren't going to lose against a good team, so against a bad team. So, Wes, when we check the boxes, when will Kirk Cousin struggles? Well, we almost hit it here because you got primetime game, You've got a lot of people watching

But what you don't have is an opponent that's going to give him trouble He should keep rolling here, right? Yeah, this checks all of the boxes And I can't even envision a scenario Where the Redskins win this game I know that Greg likes to say that any team Can beat any other team But the Vikings are so much

At it earlier on the show The Vikings are so much better than the Redskins And they are so much better at home than they are on the road I love the way they're deep defense is playing. Eric Kendrick's in particular, but their offense, Dan, you said before the season, top five offense. They're top five in DVOA. Bang. Well, two things stand out to me in this game. Number one, everyone should listen to what Mark said. That game is a delight to watch on game pass. They were loving. It was wild. It's fun. You know, it's a little weird. The Redskins didn't

allow Kay Skeenum to throw until they were down 9-0 with them left. He couldn't. But I guess he couldn't. But the bigger story is Cousins throwing dimes. He's had some throws in the last couple weeks that were amazing. I mean, that first touchdown that got feeling hurt was an amazing throw moving to his left, throwing to his right. The throw that basically ended the game against the Eagles where he's getting pushed out of bounds was an incredible throw. Cousins is feeling it. Yeah. It's revenge game. They have a plan on offense now. I love that they were able to look in the mirror and change the way that they're attacking teams. with their offense. And it's, it's covered a lot of sins. There was a lot of grumbling in there.

The Redskins, to me, like that Niners game or really any game on offense, they seem scared of their own personnel. They seem ultra conservative because they lack a plan. And there's no way that you can really imagine the Redskins attacking a team unless that other team is injury riddled to the core. And I, this, Dan, we have to cover this as a what will amount to a separate breakout pod on Thursday night. We are going to be digging deep. Ooh, like, well, you got Peter He said in Minnesota. He was running pretty well. Wes's boy ultimately still real.

That's his little, juicy little. Yeah, right. He's got a high ankle screen. He says he's now feeling that he can play. He wants that. Cousins against the Reds. He wants that Walter Payton touchdown. I mean, this is a homecoming for him.

Yes, he wants, that's a big homecoming game. What about Case Keenum against the Vikings? Oh, this game got subplots. That's fair. He swatted that down. He said he's played for so many teams at this point that every week. No, last year, he brought the Vikings. Yes.

Right. Two years ago to. He could say that. I got hurt him. That's fine, but I don't, I mean, if that's, if that's, if that's the benchmark for revenge there in week, yeah, we're in trouble. So much for revenge, but that was, hopefully, you know, he has other great moments, but him, uh, getting to the NFC championship, but that, that was a pretty great case. And then they ship them off and they, they take the high, you know, the younger model. It's not how you want to be treated.

I bet we'll, I bet we'll get two quarters of Dwayne Haskins in this game, I think. I don't know. This is an unpopular, uh, hot take, but it does, nobody wants. to say it, but this is checking all the boxes that the Redskins already know they have a bust in Dwayne Haskins. The fact that he's not playing right now. This doesn't happen anymore. There's no such thing as putting your quarterback in mothballs when you pick him in the first round and there's no one else in front of him that can play a damn. I mean, you could look at... That's assuming that your first year of your career is instructive for the rest, which I'm not

buying at all. I'm not saying he's... This year is a bust for him. Yes. I just think it's a very bad sign that they're not having him play. And they're able... They could stand behind well we don't want to rush him he's not ready but the fact that that doesn't happen anymore makes me think that there are some real concerns behind right now there are because every single broadcast crew that goes in there including i can't remember who announced the redskins game last week but including them they all talk with information based on what haskins isn't ready to do or basically that the coaching staff doesn't want to put the one thing is you they are zooming towards number one overall pick potential

if the Dolphins ever won two games this season. So you can't be in the position to draft one of the big quarterbacks that everyone is organically tanking for and have... Well, I'm saying the Redskins. There may be a quarterback out there. I mean, it's their owner's guy, yeah. All I'm saying is, if Haskins is not ready to play

and there's issues with him, then why do you not move on after one year? Look what happened to the Cardinals. They wound up doing the right thing for themselves. I guess it'd be crazy to me without. having them actually play and the owner. That's what I'm saying you have to see him. The owners.

I know, but if you know it's not the time for him. It's not that crazy in 2019. It would have been crazy four years ago. I don't think it's that crazy if you're like millions and millions of dollars are riding on having the right quarterback. And I know he got a cup of coffee this season and got sent back to the bench. But who was the last first round pick quarterback to stay on the bench? Mahomes?

For a whole season, essentially. Is it Mahomes? Well, he played the final week of the year. Yeah. But Alex Smith was a Pro Bowl quarterback at that stage. Right. That year he was. Without a real guy in front of him.

All I'd say is if they knew, let's say if you were going to get Patrick Mahomes three weeks into that season was out when Alex Smith have ever really kept him on the bench. They just took a measured approach with Patrick Mahomes. We talked about this into the Bears game when Cleo Mac killed that offensive line. But they were, that offensive line was injured and I understood why they weren't going to put him behind that line. But this line's played a little bit betterly. They're running out of excuses not to play him. All right. There you go.

That is our Tuesday show. Thank you again to Joe Thomas and Andrew Hawkins for their contribution to the program. Great guys. Yes, great guys. And Mark and Greg will be on the Tomahawk show on Sunday. So check that out. We'll be back on Thursday with our week eight preview show. And yes, Mark and I will also be on Thursday night with our recap of Thursday.

Thursday night football. So there's two shows coming up Thursday. Check them both out. That'll be a thick 25, 27 minutes, I'm hoping. It could enter that Eddie Spaghetti burgo range where you just, you love ball so much, you can't quit. Just got to talk.

Case Keenham and Peterson go into Minnesota and make it a classic. They get within 35 points. All right. Stan Hans is signing off. Punching that clock. Oh, no. for the

quiet storm the mailman the old boss Ricky Hollywood behind the glass till Thursday Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. Everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast.

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