NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - MNF Recap; What *YOUUUUUUU* People Don't Realize

Episode Date: December 11, 2019

A room filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler, Chris Wesseling and Gregg Rosenthal recap the Monday night overtime corker between the Eagles and Giants (5:56). The heroes break down all of the news around the NFL including the latest with the PI rule review (32:05) and Lev Bell going bowling with the flu (37:56). The ATN guys bring back a crowd favorite segment, "What YOUUUUUUUUUU people don't realize" (51:18) and then preview the Ravens-Jets TNF game.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Around the NFL podcast. Do you want to go bowling? Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast presented by the United States Marine Corps. My name is Dan Hansis. I'm joined in a room that is filled with Heroes, Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosenthal. What is up, boys?

Hey, Dan. You want to hear something gross? Uh, maybe. Erica, how are you right now? Are you kidding me? I'm good. How are you feeling? Good.

Want to hear something gross? So mean. You look beautiful. Thank you. No, I don't. I look exactly how I feel. It's terrible. A fighter, though.

Erica, a little under the weather, but she's here. And I mean, that's what it's about. I mean, the season begins after Thanksgiving, which means no days off. And you grind and you play through injuries. Yeah, it's in stark contrast to when Erica went to Spain smack dab in the middle of the campaign. But that's what I'm saying. It's growth. You're growing.

Yeah. Or where did I go Scotland and Ireland for a free agency? I mean. That was well played. But in Erica's defense, the season had not started yet because of not yet Thanksgiving. I thought we proved that's only if you're trying to win the Super Bowl. For us, it started in late July, and this is officially week 21 of 28 weeks. Eight to go.

Week 21. As we got upstairs, there was a Spanish language podcast running along, which, you know, it's happened. It happens. We just had never seen it before. That's never happened. Yeah, the trend zone, which they seemed to be having a great amount of fun. It did make me think of, you know how with the office as an example, which started in the UK, of course, came to the U.S. And now there's different offices, programs all over the world in different languages.

Maybe that will be us one day. Maybe we will have spinoffs all across the globe. Truly be a global podcast. Mark did note that they had their own version of Dan Hansis on this podcast. I like that guy. He had a beautiful head of, I believe it was a wig, but of hair. And I, you guys left. I'm not that far away from just wearing sunglasses at all times.

No, he had a Dan vying in from a house. You guys all left at the studio for a bit, but I noticed the guy sitting right in my seat. We met the other two, but I didn't meet him, so I don't know his name, had made a very fiery point that I felt spiritually connected with. We were just playing the same role. Is he troubled as well?

I don't know. He seemed a little bit upset about something. It is the role, though. You hear that on studio shows, you want to put the fiery guys on the edges. to bring the heat. That's why they got Irvin on the ends. They put mooch, you know, mooch with his sweaters.

He's in the middle, you know, calm presence, and then Irvin just fire on the edges. And a guy sitting actually in your seat, Dan, at the end of the show. And Eric was, this is true, was raising a Jets jersey, and they were all singing JETS. Really? I mean, I could decipher that. This is my favorite podcast.

I did not know what else they were saying, but it was. Guy, my seat was a sea of tranquility. And I reached out, that's just like you was. And I reached out to Henry Hachin, Vice President of International on our Instant Messenger client. Just wanted to make sure I had the show correct. Give him a little plug, trend zone. He responds, correct.

Be nice to them, please. Not another international hating bit. Right. Well, yeah. When have you done that? I wouldn't consider hating more like baiting. Yeah, like, you know, international baiting. I think I know who he's talking about.

That's what Dan specializes in? He's talking about Mobo. Henry, he's still upset about keeping up a bowringer bit, which, you know, Speaking of which, we have to get to that, see what he's up to as he enters his age 37 season. All right, big show. He's still on the back to squad at age 37. He's going to kill me. Big show, he just wrote Gracius, which is a nice little way to wrap up that instant messenger conversation with a little Spanish language.

As you were sticking a knife in his back. I love Henry. He loves me. All right. Let us get to today's show. A lot to get to news. including, oh, yeah, another Patriot scandal. Oh, SpyGate 2.

Spy harder. This time it sticks. Legacy is destroyed. It's real. It's happening this time, Greg. Excited. Greg's been quiet about this. We'll get into it.

Also. I'm just enjoying that. all we have to take out of the show since the league shadowy figures was like, no matter what, you got to play this straight down the line. Bye-bye. It's not what the last show was doing.

Bringing back a fun segment. What you people don't realize talking about an NFL team, coach, player, subplot in the league right now and, you know, enlightening each other. Just saying, hey, dummy, this is what's actually going on in the league right now.

It's a tricky one because we, it's like, do we have that we haven't made on this podcast so then the listeners would know that mall. It's a challenge. It's a challenge and that they would have to erupt since Sunday. That's why we're professionals, Greg. Thursday night football preview.

I'm a little worried about this one. The Jets traveling to Baltimore to face the Ravens. What story about no expectations at least. The only thing I got going for me is that Lamar Jackson is a little banged up and maybe won't be as dynamic as usual.

But before we get to that, there was one last game in week 14, and it was another New York team, and they went to Philadelphia looking to put a stake through the heart of the Eagles. Wentz to the end zone wide open. They did it. Zach Ertz. Eat that W. Philly. All right.

Monday night football. That was the ESPN call by Joe Tessitore. Carson Wentz, Zach Ertz, connect on a game-tying touchdown pass in the final minutes of regulation. And then, after winning the coin toss, go right down the field on the G-Men

and score again. The touchdown ending the game and ending a real scare for the Eagles who survived. over Eli Manning in the New York Giants. And, you know, at halftime, Greg Rosenthal, Eli and Darius Slate were picking on Ronald Darby. Hey, Ronald Darry, make a play.

Be competitive in a big spot. Two deep touchdown strikes. And it's 173, and the Eagles are getting booed off the field, and it looks like the impossible is happening, that this free-falling Giants team is going to go into Philly in primetime and win. but to Eagles credit, they figure out a way to get on track and as a result, they're in first place and the NFC East with three to play.

I mean, they could not have been less impressive looking and had more bad luck happened to them during the game losing Lane Johnson. They are not the same team without Lane Johnson. Losing Alshan Jeffrey, who Mike Garifolo now reports, is out for the season. Playing with one real wide receiver, but also Josh Perkins, who's basically a wide receiver,

throughout the game. It really felt like there was no way that they could catch up and score 17 points in this game. But when the Giants' offense goes three and out

six straight times has, I think, I know they did score on three possessions, but they went four plays or less on every other possession. It kept giving the Eagles a chance to make a couple plays.

And I think I'll remember this as the game. We all learned a little bit about Boston Scott. I like that. an ugly bad football game that had a little something at the end. It was so ridiculous. By the end, I sort of enjoyed it. Did Boston Scott's play lead you to believe, as it did me,

that the Eagles have trouble evaluating their own talent? That this guy sat on the bench all year, just like Greg Ward sat on the bench behind Mack Hollins all year? No, because, I mean, Miles Sanders hasn't been a problem. They're playing J. Ajai last week. Who can't run? That's fair. What a stark contrast to where we were heading into week one

where the Eagles were being, you know, and for appropriate reasons in the past, trumpeted as the most forward-thinking, best self-scouting, highest level front office activity in the entire NFL. It's just been a bad season. They're banged up. They're super banged up, but their team is also grossly underperformed. Darby was competing on that long touchdown. I think you're talking about Rodney McLeod,

the safety, who I think was probably at fault on that play, just gave up. Just everything about the team has been underperforming. Like, name the player on the Eagles who has played better this season than expectations. Like they're... Brandon Brooks, maybe? Right. They're almost...

Erks has been representative of what he's able to do. That said, you never... I know we say this a lot. You never know if this win's going to matter. It was a game where I feel like worse about them after watching them win. And yet, they're six and seven and they have the redskins still left. I get that. But I also, I really did come out of the game, gaining a new respect or being reminded of why I like Carson once while I've always liked him because they really didn't have

anything around him. You had Ertz, you know, the offensive line was beat up. By the time Arthago Whiteside limps off the field in overtime. By the way, his name is now J-J-J-J-J-J-J-J-J-J-J-Rthega, White-Side. J-J-J-J-J-J-J-J-Jaw. Is it? Is it? it truly only a six catches this year? He's been on the field for like a thousand snaps. I feel like we talked about him 500 times. Greg Ward Jr. is the only remaining wide receiver. Josh McCown, the backup quarterback, was about to go in at wide receiver. That's how bad it was.

40 years old. To Wentz's credit, he found a way to get in the end zone three times. And I just reminded me of why I like the guy, why he'll probably be better down the road, maybe not this year, but down the road. And after the game, Doug Peterson was also feeling very bullish about his quarterback. this was actually his comments on Monday. I think this would have to be his number one game, quite honestly. And he would, you know, you could ask him later this week.

But I just think from the standpoint of putting the team on us back and leading this team down the field, you know, down two scores and to tie the game, of course, to win it in overtime, some of the plays that he did make, whether it was, you know, extending it with his legs or, you know, keeping a play alive and finding receivers down the field. field just and then his toughness to stand in the pocket and take some shots. I would say this would be his number one game, you know, in the four years that has really kind of, you know, it's exciting for him. And I think it gives him confidence moving forward. I mean, I think that's got there's got to, there's got to be Eagles fans out there remembering his MVP level play from a few

years ago and say best game. Now, I do think he, you can't say he's not a tough player. I mean, they emerged from our first quarter where this just felt like a terrible high school. school game to me. And I couldn't believe it was actually being televised for people to observe. But Carson Wentz, you know, part of it is he's never had this full season. He's, he's dealt with so much that you forget he's young still and the environment around a young quarterback matters. Yeah, he definitely had more productive and more visually appealing games during that 2017 season that ended with the knee injury, unfortunately, in December. But that was a Super Bowl champion. That was a loaded roster and he made the most of it. I think that's

what Peterson was getting at. Like, he has nobody around him, and he's still getting it on it. He has Earth, so that's about it. I've always been a believer, but I've adjusted my expectations this year that he might be, like Cam Newton, a physical marvel whose mechanical inconsistencies just don't make him an above-average passer. He reminds me a Big Ben, though, who I think had a hard time putting it all together in terms of playing the quarterback position in the first four or five years of his career from

the neck up, which is very, you know, common. And I think a lot of the complaints you see with Wendz, and you heard with Big Ben back then, was just not seeing the field, not seeing open receivers. And that can... Well, your complaint is he's not an accurate passer. That's a problem, too. Which I don't think was a problem for Rathusberger.

He definitely just misses a decent amount of throws. But this was an amazing performance. And I think, look, Peterson's saying that because they don't care they're six and seven and they're ugly. That was going to be the most embarrassing loss that they've had in an embarrassing season, certainly in the Doug Peterson era, and suddenly you're hoping that it rallies you to something. Because it was stirring.

In the end, it was a stirring win. As ugly as it was, if you're an Eagles fan or you're one of those players that was stirring. I have one guarantee. Sorry. And I'll put sandwiches on this. Whoever wins this division is winning a playoff game. That's...

All right. I keep hearing that. I'm not going near that. Just because it feels like that's what's going to happen. It's also happened before... It has. Like the last two times... Since we've even been on the show, multiple times.

But it's more likely it doesn't happen. It's more likely it doesn't because the high water NFC competition is very, very much. Sports are funny like that. It very well could be the Seahawks. I mean, yeah. On the other side, quickly, the Giants. I enjoyed the Eli fun in the first half. It kind of worked out perfectly for the Giants in the sense that Eli had his moment there

where he had the two touchdown passes. You had all the shots up on ESPN or the first half. the Peyton Manning box, which there were none in the second half, by the way. And then they go in the tank and lose the game. They stay locked in at that number two overall pick. So Eli gets a moment. The Giants keep their draft positioning and away they go. I mean, he got a moment where he looked as depressed and heartbroken after the game

as any time I've ever seen him, not a guy that wears his emotions on his sleeve. They did show Manning and the family right at the end when they're setting up the broadcast. this is Eli's chance to go win the game to write the extra page in the book of Eli. And they're so nervous. And Eli and his postgame presser, he just seemed crushed. I mean, we have a friend Jason Hartilius, who he used to work with us at this game. I mean, Giants fans, this game made them absolutely miserable. They wanted to win.

That was the best case scenario. I know it's nice to get Chase Young. But they have Pat Schumer to thank. I mean, what an uninspired coach. How can they not be more prepared for, how could coaches in general? Well, Schumer's not the only one. Be more prepared for timeout situations. It just, they, all they do is talk about how hard they work all year.

We work all year, all day, all long. How about in the off season, you run through these drills where you're prepared for different timeout situations? Because any kid playing Madden knows what to do, there's 45 seconds left, or 40 seconds left. The Eagles have fourth down, and they're like, they, Doug Peterson, who's smart enough to realize if they're going to let us not take a time out here, we'll throw Hail Mary at the end of this. And Pat Schumer is just stuck and frozen

and doesn't realize that the clock's going to run another 25 seconds till he takes a timeout and they have no chance to tie the game. It's like, this is pretty basic stuff. And like head coaches being paid tens of millions of dollars don't know what to do. They're definitely not all created equal when it comes to the game planning.

But it's like it's something where there's a bottom barrel part of that. It's like a test where there's a right and a wrong answer. There's no interpretation. Like it's very... Some people's... minds just don't work that way. I get it. I'm always amazed that you're all over end of game situations where I am flummoxed every time. And I'm much like Wes. I would say this, the assumption that every football fan should hold on, should see this. Clearly, it's like,

it's a skill of yours too. Fans could, fans, I wouldn't necessarily, but it would be a very easy thing to just practice and be ready for. You could do it in one day. You could, like, if all the coaches practice that timeout situation, like where they know what to do in different scenarios, they're done in eight hours for the rest of their life, I think. think. I mean, I'm about as analytical when it comes to that stuff as a small child. So I don't, I simply don't agree with that, that everyone can learn that. Andy Reid's going to Canton and he needs a guy to help him out. Right. Right. Right. We just have a guy help him. Yeah, exactly. Dan, you'll be happy to know that was probably the first time I've ever rooted for Eli Manning in a game. He,

I saw that quote before the game where he said his wife finally came to the game this year because I haven't played in three months and you don't know if I'm ever going to play again. Yeah. And I think that's probably part of the reason why he was a little down after the game. And, you know, Twitter is what Twitter is. The pitchforks are out. The torches were out. And everybody wanted Eli to go one for 47 and throw 17 interceptions because that's fun. That's a pursuit of people on the Internet with the NFL.

And they didn't get quite what they want, but they got a little what they wanted in the second half when he threw for about 30 yards. And Saquan Barkley, can you make a play? Can you help out the old man and make a play? Yeah, he's not right. Because that's what they desperately, desperately needed in that second half. not, you know, it's a running back. Or game after game after game.

But in that game specifically, when Eli gave you that good first half, make a play, bust one, and they haven't gotten that all year from him really since that ankle injury. I know some people are talking about giving Eli a chance to compete for another team next year. He can't. He can't move. He looks done. His arm's not good enough? No, he's done.

The weird thing was the broadcast kept saying like this might be the last time we see him. But by all accounts, there's no chance Daniel Jones is playing this week. There's a pretty good chance Daniel Jones doesn't play the rest of this season. I mean, Schermer said that they are evaluating it as a possible that the Jones will be back. All right. Let's move on and hit the news. He's going for 90-yard touchdown. 90-yard touchdown!

A-Sept out of here. You see, I'm saying, you see, I ain't talking about it, right? Stay humble, boy. Stay humble, girl. I can be excited. Yeah, but don't do that by my ear. Don't do it by my ear. I will do it by my ear.

No, no, no. That's what I do. What's what I do? I'll hide that you after the game. 17, just keep talking. The greatest on-field soundbite of week 14, maybe the year. Yonik and Gakwe of the Jaguars gets to Philip Rivers. A moment too late.

Rivers completes the 90-yard touchdown pass. And Gakway helps him up, and then Rivers just starts shouting. 90-yard touchdown, 90-yard touchdown. Gakway did not like that. A fun little interaction. It's so funny, too. That's Philip Rivers being a bad boy. and it's still wildly wholesome.

But also, Wes, you had a good point on this. It's absolutely lousy sportsmanship. It's just lousy. The guy helped you up. You're a jerk. I mean, he's in the heat of the moment, so I'll give Rivers that. But I was struck by the fact that this lineman helped you up,

and then you started shouting in his earhole. It's hilarious, though. I mean, every time you've ever played sports, there's one person who talks way too much trash. And it usually is annoying. It's not funny, it's annoying. But they love the game. You can tell he's just so excited.

Like, defensive players just think Philip Rivers is a crazy man. And he is. I like it. I like it. He's the dad and the knee braces in Larry Bird jersey at the Y. Yeah. He just loves the game. He gets a little too amped up.

But that guy's not talking trash. But he gets emotional and he will talk. He's too intense. That's Rivers. Honey Badger tweeted out basically saying, this happens with Philip Rivers and most defensive players would not take offense because of who Philip Rivers is. I would say where he was a week before, too,

had a lot to do with. with this. Had and Gokway not helped him up, by all means, talk all the trash you want. I look at it as like... Or if the hit was a little late? Right. We talk about heeding the call. I feel like Philip Evers heeds the call. He doesn't know if that's his last long touchdown pass ever. He's got to enjoy it. You got to heed the right call, not any call.

Longest of his career, too. All right. Enough of this nonsense because we have some breaking news, like real heavy stuff, stuff that changes the complexion of the world we live in. SpyGate 2. Spy harder. Spy harder, the collapse of the Patriot dynasty. Wee! SpyGate 2!

Let's go through it. Bengals coach, Zach Taylor, said Monday that the NFL is investigating if the Patriots had a videographer film the Bengals sideline from the Cleveland press box during Sunday's game. The Pats, of course, are playing Cincinnati this upcoming week. Taylor had no comment to follow-up questions on the matter. Rapsheet reported via source informed the Patriot situation that New England reached out to the Browns for a credential, who's the Browns and Bengals this week,

for a credential for a videographer to shoot behind-the-scenes footage on an advanced scout as part of their Do Your Jobs video series. The Pats followed with a statement on Monday night, confirming, confirming. that the organization's video crew independent of the football operation did film the field while the press box, oh, Greg's dying, during the Browns-Bangles game, Belichick, who's the head of this organization, it's Robert Kraft and it's Billy Boy. He, Belichick, goes on the radio, and people have questions for him, and this is what Belichick

had to say. Well, the fact that they're, you're telling us that, and we're also hearing that from other people who claim exactly what you just said that it was for another TV show and yet it's being presented. We've been watching it all afternoon on ESPN and elsewhere that, you know, this was videotaping the signals on the sideline.

I mean, we're going back 10 years, Bill. It's all over again. Yeah. Well, no, no, no, that's... Again, from a football standpoint, we absolutely know what the rules are and we are 100% in compliance to the best of my knowledge of every single rule. that we're responsible for.

Greg, answer to it. I mean, that's where we'll start. I mean, I have nothing to answer too. I got a few things. Wes, this immediately... I can't wait to find out where Wes comes down on this one. I might surprise you on this one. This immediately called to mind

Shaq and Handsome Hank's debate a couple of weeks ago about the difference between irony and coincidence because this qualifies as both irony and coincidence. It's coincidence that the Patriots find themselves embroiled in another spygate controversy. It's irony because what you see on the surface is not what's actually going on. But it's also irony because when the NFL found that the Patriots had excuses ready for the first spy gate, among those excuses was tell them you need the footage for a team show.

Oh. And my reading on this situation is that Belichick is 100% innocent. and it's just coincidence and irony that this happened. I think there's freelance videographers involved. I think if you work in a big corporation or a big building like ours, you know that what's going on on on the second floor for a TV show has absolutely nothing to do with what's going on in other parts of the building. And that's my reading on the situation.

This is just an unfortunate coincidence. I thought you were going to say it was ironic because it was the Bengals. It was ironic because there's no coach or figure, I would say, in NFL history that Bill Belichick reveres more than Paul Brown. And there is no coach in NFL history, really that era where there was such paranoia about Paul Brown, about a few different coaches. George Allen would certainly be in that mix, Al Davis, where they always thought they were spying on each other. They always all thought that, like, they were trying to get extra edges by doing little thing. And nothing was ever proven. But Paul Brown especially, who modernized the NFL and, you know, eventually, you know, own the Browns.

You know, he was kind of a guy that people had their suspicions about. So I thought that's where you're going with the irony. In case, in case you're just joining us, SpyGate 2, return of the gate. The Patriots under siege, a dynasty in shambles. speaking right now with Patriots Kiar Flack, Greg Rosenthal, who says he has too much respect Bill Belichick to ever cheat on the Bengals. Go on, Greg. No, I would never say that.

I don't have to be insanely stupid and reckless to be the Patriots and try to videotape. By the way, to be honest, I agree with you on this. Hold on, right. You reap what you sell. Here's one thing that bothers me. According to Paul Denner Jr., the athletic, right, the report that came out this morning, this is where I get caught up a little bit. and I'm not trying to spin it somewhere evil or anything either.

Real quick, Mark Maskey of the Washington Post reported before we came up here that severe sanctions are unlikely for the Patriots from where we stand right now. Ian said the league is inclined to believe the Patriots' intentions on the videotaping. That doesn't mean there won't be a penalty. And we'll see where we are 24 hours now. But in that report by Paul Denner, if I want to see the footage of over the shoulder of the scout. Well, they've looked at it according to these sources.

that it's not some sort of, you know, flighty documentary where you're looking at the Advanced Scout typing and doing this work. They did that earlier, apparently. Right. What it is, there are people, according to sources in this report, who have viewed the tape, it shows about eight minutes of footage focusing on recording the Bengals sideline. It's a direct view of the sideline as players run on and off the field

and coaches make signals for plays. Does that sound like a playful, do-your-job documentary about a Advanced Scout where you would want to have him in the picture? You'd want close-ups of him. How does he do his job? Why are we, why is the, if it was 18 seconds, that's different. Eight uninterrupted minutes of the sideline raises suspicions from a team that's done this before. Release the tapes.

The best, the best thing. I feel, I'm actually surprised you guys are so just throwing it totally out. I don't really have a big, no, I mean, Wes and Dan. A big opinion one way or another yet, because it's like, who the hell knows? People come on TV with like super hot takes about everything. thing when like my question is a rosenthal trope though whenever you want to throw down on something you just say who the hell knows but we're trying to break down what we're hearing what's been reported than i would even that that you would throw it out that it's that it's all i'm not

i want this investigated more than i ever wanted the uh slightly under inflated football investigation no my my question was was what do what would you gain what do you get from looking at the sidelines and people people have talked about well of course they're not actually calling the plays on the sideline anymore, but maybe there's some little things with like personnel groupings and then other ex-players say, well, you can figure all that out.

And then you send the tape to Ernie Adams so he can dissect it, you know, the man behind the curtain. My thought was more at the other end. Like I, I don't know, isn't this stuff, it's so, it's tiring. Like, just because I grew up in Massachusetts, I don't, I don't know.

I don't have any, like, connection to like wanting to defend anything the Patriots do in general. But tiring as in if something's been wrong, we're too tired to look into it? No, not that. I think you can look into it. No, more like when stories come up like this, it's like, okay, we got to take sides. Like here's the, if you're inclined to believe in conspiracies, then those are, there's that side.

And then if you're a Patriots fan, you have to have your talking points. You don't have to. I definitely don't. I mean, I don't have this talking point. That feels to me like it's a little. dismissive of people caring or all I'm saying I think Wes is too is what I'm reading what they put out and again we're still learning it to me sparks the concept of wanting to investigate further I don't have a hot take about it the thing they have working for them I would say the Patriots is just a I guess like the defense of like if we were that stupid why would we do it in literally in the seat in front of a Bengals employee that feels weird a seat in front of the Bengals employee and then also you know if you're you remember well with the, with spy gate and with the deflate gate, the messaging was a little delayed. It wasn't as clear. It wasn't as we're going to give you all the evidence in the

world. Whereas this one, they came out swinging immediately as, you know, at least giving the response that you would hope or expect someone that actually didn't do anything wrong to make, which is they came out hard right away. Belichick talked. They released a huge statement. They gave the tape right away to the NFL or whatever, and they said it's in, it's in their hand. So that's on their side. I don't know, though. I wouldn't put, you know, who the hell knows? I wouldn't put it as a destabilizing 48 hours or the Patriots.

It would also be like, do the Patriots really need a rallying cry once again? Right. They will try to use this, I'm sure. Yeah, my thing is more like, I don't know. It's just in the scheme of things. Am I going to keep getting worked up about stuff like this? emotionally, whether it's the Patriots or anything else NFL related, when, yes, we take football very seriously.

Like, we love talking about the game and stuff. But, like, controversies like this, it's hard to, like, get too worked up about when we're talking about, like, real things going on in the world or even real things going on in the NFL. You're minimizing it in the grand scheme. Of course, it's not as big a deal as what's going on in the world, politics, you know, crime, things like that. But it's still something that deserves to be looked at.

And I'll say this, even if it was an innocent mistake. And that's really, again, where I kind of come down. It's way too brazen for them to actually, I think, be attempting to do this kind of stuff again. But at the same time, for an organization that's as well run as this, to not have the awareness that if you're the Patriots, don't even do that. Somebody should be talking to that video team. Like, listen, we were involved in the biggest cheating scandal of the last 20 years in sports. maybe we should not even go down that road. But to me, that doesn't mean that they are evil cheaters in this case.

Just maybe there was a good move. I would say if I'm hiring someone inside a company to create a engaging three or four minute piece about an employee and doing their job, right? I don't understand where the technical concept is. Here's how we're going to make this unengaging. We're going to film the sideline for eight straight minutes without moving the camera. That's a question that needs to be answered. All right.

when we will continue to track this story as we must as journalists as the gatekeepers I'm glad you're on the case we're all on this we're all on this and Greg will run interference

as he does I'm all about it SpyGate 2 keeps spying harder all right keeps spying let's let's move on let's move on

the NFL is planning a quote top-down review of officiating in the off-season. This is from our own Judy Batista. The review will include examining who should be in charge of replay reviews at the officiating command center. Obviously, it's been a difficult season for the officials and the, especially the enactment of the pass interference review rule, which we've kind of covered exhaustively

throughout this season. Right now, the head of the whole thing, of course, is senior vice president of officiating Al Riveron, but this certainly doesn't sound, Wes, like very good news for Al. Well, this has been bungled at every step along the way, starting with the germination of the idea in the first place. In the competition committee,

which I used to believe was by far the best in all of sports, is on a losing streak for a few years now. And this idea, we can change rules over the course of the season, depending on what we want to emphasize that week or that month, it messes with the integrity of the game and needs to stop. It's been a trend for the last couple of years, and you need to have your rules in place by week one

and have those roles in place the entire season. I've lost some faith in what's going on with the rules in the NFL. I have, to a lesser degree, partly because I feel like no matter what happens, everyone's going to be complaining. So it hurt, like, I don't know what to do with that. And on some level, it just bores me. If only because there's so much we don't know about everything that goes on.

Greg is not into anything. No, no, no. There's so much that we don't go, that goes on to every play and every player and everything else that interests me in the NFL. But I hear so much about a fishing from so many smart people all the time. And it's all very similar points that it's like, I get it, but I guess I don't know what else he can do. How can you start with that call at Green Bay in week three with Philadelphia where it was clear and obvious and then go two months not call anything and then in week 14 hand a game to a team based on a call that wasn't as clear and obvious as some of the other ones.

The Dolphins Jets game was handed to the team. Well, I think we found out that it was going to be a problem in our summit with. all of the other, you know, on-air people where it was so obvious when Al Riveron was pointing out which plays were clear and obvious and which ones weren't, half the audience disagreed with him on every call. So we knew then. So I get that in their mind, Wes, obviously they're not trying to confuse people. Like they think it is clear and obvious and other people don't. No, no, no, no, no, no. You're covering for them. They have D. I'm saying they were back in July, the definition was not obvious.

They changed the emphasis during the season. And you know this because all of the talking head referees on all the TV shows in week, in week 13, came out with talking points saying, hey, this is changing now. Every single one of them. It's been three weeks. On the first time they threw to those analysts. But here's the thing. I think it's at least can we, for the most, I would say it's better right now. They've corrected about, I can think of six or seven very, very obvious.

calls, and then there's been a couple where it seems... I side with Greg on the... I just don't know how you fix it, where it's the 100th year of the NFL, and you go back 80 years, people didn't like officials then. You could shout at them, but the officials had authority because there were no other eyes. There was no... Technology has turned this into a total debacle, because we can see much better than the

officials. We have 80 angles, and they have been stripped of their on-field authority. The problem here is that Ron Rivera, Al-Rivera... Al-Riveron, excuse me, is saying he's coming out telling a pool reporter on Sunday, it is not being applied any differently than it was at the beginning of the year. That's just not true. And then here's some data right here. And this is from Andrew Siciliano and the NFL Now team.

From weeks 1 to 10, 10 out of 65 PI challenges were reversed, 15.15. From weeks 11 through 14, it's been 10 out of 22. 45.4%. There has been a change. Now, it's a small sample size. And there's been more of those where they call in and change it on their own. And that's happened. And here's the thing. And you brought up the Jets Dauphins West. They got the call right because it was past interference by the law. But however, why it doesn't work? And even though, yes, I agree with you, Greg, and I agree with you, Mark, that at least they're kind of at least making the rule worth a damn now. You just cannot change a rule in the middle of a season,

just like you can't change rules in the middle of a game. You have to have one guiding principles for how you're going to enforce something. It's got to stick through the whole season before you change it. Didn't we see something very similar last season when it came to roughing the passer?

Yes. All the stuff that was going on with Clay Matthews and all of a sudden that kind of dried up. They have to get out of this habit and maybe it is a top-down review. And with the helmet, the leading with the helmet. Remember we spent it a whole off-season and talking about the leading with the helmet rule.

They're like, how can running backs even survive in today's NFL's, like Michael Robinson and Maurice Jones, you're standing up for the rights of running back? I think they've called that penalty four times in the three years since. It's like it never happened. It was a Brown's running back.

They named it after him. Who was it? It was the, when you can't put your head down? I don't feel like they had a running back before Nick Chubb showed up, so. Peyton Hillis? Not Hillis. Oh, well, it doesn't matter.

All right. I'm kind of half paying attention during the summit, So that might be the reason I can't come up with the name. All right, let's move on and deal with the lighter side of sports. Lost seasons. Bad things happen to teams and stupid stories pop up around bad teams at the end of seasons. Levyon Bell, he came down with a flu bug last week. And usually when a player gets sick and you hear about it, you know, heading into the weekend of the game,

he ends up suiting up. But when it comes to this Jets team, team in this jet season. Bell actually gets shut down. He's not playing, okay? The Jets win without him. In fact, Billy Powell sets the team high for rushing yardage in a game with 74 yards. So it tells you a lot about Levi-on-Bell season with the Jets. Anyway, Saturday night while the Jets were at a hotel prepping for the Dolphins, Bell was spotted at a New Jersey bowling alley hours after the Jets had ruled him out of the week 14 game with the illness. Now, Now, the setup to this is that you kind of knew when they come to Adam Gase today what he's going to say, which is, well, we don't really, we didn't, he wasn't supposed to be with the team.

So we're, because he was contagious and we've heard about the flu bug going around the NFL the last couple weeks. However, it's obviously not a great look. And here is what Adam Gase had to say about Levi-on Bell. Yeah, I mean, that's not. I mean, that wasn't his fault that we said that he was still contagious. I mean, that's what the doctors told him. I'd rather them not be at home just getting better. So you won't.

Disappointed him for her. I can't tell him this. You have to stay in your house. Oh, my gosh. Guy seems so, so miserable. Well, maybe this breaking news will cheer him up. Labion Bell has revealed he bowled a two-fifference. 51 on Saturday night.

His best score ever. He had the flu game. He can fight through injury. Career high. He also said doctors told him to get out of the house and get moving, which feels like a convenient excuse. I'm really upset that he's just throwing the Jets money away and disrespecting them. Jerome Benis versus Lev Bell in a bowling contest.

What do you mean? It's the best thing he's done all year in an athletic pursuit. I'm proud of him. I mean, he skips the game. What kind of teammate is that anyways? Are you trying to get even for the Patriots stuff? This is a bigger story. It's more like a New York impression of like a New York sports talk show host.

Who's more likely to be a jet in 2020? Love Bell or Adam Gase? Wow. That's a tight horse race. I think I would say Adam Gase only because we know he has or we've heard that he has ownership support, whereas the head coach never wanted Levy on Bell in the first place. And now he's delivered a season where he's done almost nothing. I imagine the jet's going to

He bowed at 251. Yeah, well, other than the 251, which is very good. I mean, Adam Gase has some history of taking what should be good running backs and minimizing their abilities. I don't think that it's all on Lev Bell. They have a terrible offensive line.

He hates running backs. Well, come get him. Come get Lev Bell. I mean, he was out of the teams out there. He was floated in a trade. You'll get the guy that was on the Steelers, if that's indeed true. Right. Charlie Castle

the second round pick. Go ahead. Said Billy Powell is, you know, they're better off with Bill. Billy Powell, because Billy Powell just runs, goes for it, and Bell's style doesn't necessarily work with such a bad offensive line. His contract makes him essentially impossible to cut, although they could... It would have to be a trade.

Actually, they could just do it because they could just eat it if they want, but it just is ridiculously stupid. They won't eat it, though, because as bad as he has been this year, there are, you could point to reasons why it hasn't worked out. And also, this is the first instance where he's kind of been painted or looked poor as a teammate. He's been pretty good soldier overall. But I think they will I think they'll move him in a trade. And they might

not get a lot of value back, but they'll get the money off the books. And a team will think they can get the old lead bell back. This GM also had nothing to do with that signing. I will say bowling is about as overrated of an activity as you can find in America. I think it's one of the great underrated parlor games. But you hate all parlor

games. Name a parlor game you like. I like bowling. I like bowling more than other parlor games. I just think it's overrated as Oh, raided by who? Remember the Super Bowl? Anyone can play it. Remember the Super Bowl?

We all went bowling and the old Zooser bowled like a 53 on his first try so he was over in the next lane practicing while we were all. I forgot about that. That was in New York. Lev Bell, by the way. The oil wasn't right on that lane. He's guaranteed $13 million next year.

No one's trading for him unless the Jets offered to pay like half that money, which doesn't even feel worthy. Just bring him back. He's fine. He's not their biggest problem. Teams were, he generated interest at the trade deadline. All right, I'll put a sandwich out there that he's not on the Jets next year.

Anybody. I'll take you just for the sake of it. The sport. I kind of think. I like that parlor. Throw it on the board. I think there's a better chance. I think there's a better chance Gase has gone.

That one's still on my radar. Gage is so unhappy. Well, if Matt Ruhl, well, didn't they want to hire Matt Ruel, the Baylor coach? And he basically said no. Well, no, they wouldn't allow him to hire his own staff, which is ridiculous. Right. didn't have experience. So they hired.

Anyway. What is your best bowling score ever? I'd say about 190. I lost to. I'm not saying this as this is true. I lost to a child once when I was an adult. And I'm not a good bowler. That may have something to do with that.

Triple digits? I think I got 193 like one time. But it never got anywhere near that usually. My high is right around to 170. and it's a great disappointment because Keith Hansis averages about a 186. My dad averaged about a 170 something.

Yeah, and, you know, I believe I let him down. Now, I've always told my dad, I said, Dad, you know, you could have helped me. You've taught me so many things in life about how to be a man, how to be a ball player, how to treat people, how to treat family. But you never taught me how to bowl. And I've always held that against pop.

I mean, and he knows. knows that. Wow. And it's not too late, Dad. I'm held against. Dad's coming for Christmas this year, and maybe we... I was going to say, that's a game that you can play your whole life. I mean...

It's not too late. In his... You're just in your prime now. It is a bit on you to practice some also. Right. Yeah, in his defense, it does kind of feel like one of those sports you can... Let me just figure it out. I guess.

I guess I never really practiced it. Well, that's a fact... I have faith you throw it. Although, I guess, yeah, the whole spin and all that stuff. Make it a cool for your 40s. Yeah, become a bowl. Actually, my buddy, Bob, have talked about bowling. There's some good alleys around here.

Hang up the spikes and put on the old bowling shoes. Put on the clown shoes. It's a big L.A. sport. All right, let's move on. Oh, let's head to the kicker club. Oh, yes. Yeah, I need some good news after that left bell drop. The good news is somebody lost his job?

Yeah, baby. Brett Maher is out as the Cowboys kicker. And when somebody's out, somebody's got to come in and guess who's coming in. Kai 4 Bath, baby. It's a good day for the kai boys. To save the Cowboys season. This is exactly the situation I wanted. I hated the New England Patriot.

The Kai Boys, is that what you said? Yeah, we're the Kai boys. Dallas Cowboys. This is a new fan club. Yeah, it's a fan club. Let's go over it again. We have the Kai boys, the Blauards. Blowards struggling right now.

The Bohemians. Doing well. The Lions star. Are we missing anyone? Do you still run of that Minchew Club? The Manchuvians. The Manchuvians? I didn't know it was Manchuvians.

I would say of everyone we just mentioned, that's the fan club that has the best shot of thriving a year from now. I just heard the numbers are down recently. It also sounds like a... Fairweather fans in there. Like a 15th century cult. It's versatile. Anyway, good spot for Kai here because he joins a first place team,

a team that's on TV all the time that people are going to pay attention to that he has a chance to really get his career back on track. Or you could view it as a ship that's suddenly been turned on fire in the middle of the water and maybe sunk three weeks from now and he could be gone in a week. And isn't that the life of a kicker in general? It is. I mean, it's a great opportunity.

Indoor's what I'm saying. Big spots. You know. Playing for a team that laid down like dogs in their last game. In other kicker news, Adam Vincieri is undergoing season ending knee surgery, ending his disappointing in ugly 24th NFL season with the call. he came out today, I believe, and said he wish he would have got the surgery before the season

and you know what that means? He ain't ready to quit. That has all the earmarks as long as the leg cooperates with him in the rehab of a guy that wants to come back and prove to everyone. The only reason he was bad this year is not because he was finished

is because he was never physically right. He wants to leave the door open. He's turning 47. According to Pro Football Reference, he's also known as Automatic Adam, Iceman, or Vinnie? Where do they get these? I wrote an article once on our website

about the strangest nicknames. I think Vinny might have been one that got a little... Who's ever called him automatic Adam? No one's ever called him any of those things. Hey, if Peyton Manning can wait to the last year of his career to be called the sheriff and it sticks,

they make this... He will... I guess they're just going to rubber stamp for the Hall of Fame. It is very strange how kicking has changed. Wait, what's this take? It's less... You're upset about the...

No, no... No, no position... It has more obviously, obviously every position has changed, but it's no more clear because kicking's the exact same basically now as it was back then. Jan Stennerud, the only kicker in the NFL Hall of Fame? No, Morton Anderson went in. Okay, Morton Anderson went in too. But Jan Stenar for a long time was the only kicker had the exact same career field goal percentage

as Brett Marr did this season for the Cowboys. That's how much kicking has changed. Like if you hit two-thirds of your kicks now, You get replaced by Kai freaking forebath. Back then, you were the best kicker of all time. That's how you know sports are so much better. The athletes are so much better because anything you can track, like track and field,

anything with a clock. Right. Or anything that's measured, people blow away the records. I mean, it's not even a contest. Some more pro football focus, weird names. A pro football reference, I should say. Tom Brady, the Pharaoh.

No. What does this feel so? I think they're like, If you go to pro reference.com, it's right there. I know, but... Adam Vittieri, Automatic Adam or Iceman. J.J. Watt, the Milkman, or J.J. Swat. Okay, I've heard Swat.

You've heard that one? How about... Another one for Tom Brady is, sir. What? How about Eric Berry is the fifth dimension? Never heard of that. How about Eric Barry's out of the league? How about...

What is happening? Why is Eric Barry out of the league? How about Patrick Mahomes? The musician, Patrick, or the gunslinger? I've never heard it. Brett Farmer has an autobiography or a biography called The Gunslinger. It's already taken.

What is pro football reference a rather serious I reached out to them on it. Yeah, what's the point? They love it. They stated that it's sometimes something they pick up or someone mails into them

and they don't vet it too hard. It's kind of like a fun little thing. But there's always something behind it. It's just, it's not made up. Mitch Trevisky, Mr. Biscuit. What? Yeah. I'll send this link out.

That was a good one. Stale biscuit. All right. Ouch. You actually picked a good Thursday night game to miss there. We talked about it on the show. Yeah, no, that was. Trabisky raising back from the...

I mean, I got Jets Ravens, so I'm not sure that I didn't... It wasn't in the world of trading assets. I'm sure Twitter, by this point, has Trubisky over Kirk Cousins to the rankings because the only thing that matters is what happened in the last game. I was the winner, though, and sold the listeners of the throwback podcast. They were... Oh, yeah.

Because because I took over, we talked. the little arcade fire funeral is one of the most fun times I've had on the podcast. You're going to have to top my post-TNF recap appearance on that show. That was the... We discussed teenage years

mixtapes. Yes. A Mark Sessler, anthems. And Chris Wesleyan's going to come in with his wife very soon. Well, maybe... See, now she's getting... Well, you better do it.

You knock her up, so now we got a problem. What? We'll see if we can get her in. She's still coming to work. I think she can do a throwback pot. I know. It's tough to be in. pregnant though i've seen it i've seen my wife go through it it's not easy being up late sitting in an

uncomfortable chair in a garage toucho maybe we get it earlier before it you know you don't want to get to second term erika third term you know how it gets really rough well keisha has maintained what are you doing i're just digging yourself just erika oh my god great wait a minute that will not make All right. Oh my God. All right. That's what's happening in the news. All right.

Do we want to, do we have time to do this segment? I mean, come on. We're 50 minutes into the show. Do we want to just go to the PNF preview? Really, too, in the fact. How about one quick, quick one each? All right, one quick one each. What you people don't realize.

Mark's like, there's no way for me to be quick. I will try to be quick. Uh-oh, he's got pages. It's not outrageous. It's not outrageous. It's not outrageous. It's not outrageous. Start with you or close to you?

I'll go first. How about that? Get out of the way and then you guys can decide how quick you want to be after. It's just marked. What you people, that's this topic, that's the name of this segment, right?

What you little snowflake windbags don't realize is that my previous prediction about backup quarterback Jarrett Stidham winning a home playoff game for the Patriots has been altered by the spiritual impact of these new Pat's videotaping issues. What you lakefront slapies don't realize is that New England's two,

2019 journey will end like this, with a Titanic postseason whacking at home by Mike Rabel and the Titans. Tom Brady will throw three first half picks and the Patriots will lose by 20 plus points in front of a melting down Gillette Stadium with Bill Belichick suspended and out of the picture. Can you pause one second mark? Have you noticed that every one of our segments turns into a wild Mark Sessler prediction now? Doesn't matter what the, what the set up is. Well, this started as what's more likely until about 20 minutes before the show. So, All right, go on. But with Bill Belichick suspended and out of the picture

and with Josh McDaniels serving as fill-in head coach and with Brady toiling amid whispers the team will not bring him back in 2020. For months after the loss, Brady defiantly refuses to speak to anyone inside the organization and winds up signing a one-year monster contract with Brian Flores in the Miami Dolphins. What's More Likely?

I don't know. What was the What's More Likely then? I'm curious. Well, I had to rewrite it on the fly. Give us the what's more likely. Let's go that. Let's go that. I don't have it.

I've erased all that. So what's more likely? Tom Brady's on the Dolphins next year or? This is a, this is, I'm telling you a scenario that is happening. You know, that scenario, which, you know, now you're covered either way. Like, now you have two different scenarios. So if Stitton's, you know, you don't get credit for Stidham now if that happens. You sure you want to do this?

I do. You will get credit. He knows he will. I will get credit either way. So that's good. You're doubling your chances. That scenario really reminds me of 2009, which I think was the darkest moment of the last 20 years of the Patriots, unless you get really worked up about SpyGate or whatnot, was them getting booed off the field

after the Ravens beat them by, what, 25 points? And there was like trat, there was a windy day and there was this trash blowing around. And that was really where everyone said, okay, Is this the end of the Patriots dynasty going into 2000? And it was. Whether you believe it happened or not, I would say Tom Brady, the greatest quarterback ever being suspended from the NFL for cheating was maybe a darker moment for the...

As a fan, though, like that one hurt more because you thought maybe it was... No one thought he was the greatest quarterback of all time then. No one even would put him in that conversation. In 2009. Yeah. All right, Wes, you are up. What you fatuous...

frauds do realize is that Matt Ryan's 2016 MVP season under Kyle Shanahan calling the plays is the closest any quarterback has come to completing at least 70% of his passes at at least 10 adjusted yards per attempt. No quarterback has ever done it. What you odious ostriches with your head in the sand don't realize is that Ryan Tanahill is currently at 73.4 completion rate and 10.2 adjusting yards per attempt. Not only is he accurate, he's lethal downfield. And of course, all these things have to be adjusted for error. But you rarely see that combination of accuracy

and downfield prowess in a quarterback. Especially Ryan Tannahill, where throughout his whole career, it's funny we've done this podcast so long to see a guy that used to not really appreciate Ryan Tannel taking over for your boy Marioita. And the thing we would get on Tannale is he couldn't throw downfield.

but they've been on fire doing it. They have played three of the worst, you know, past defenses in the NFL that certainly helped his numbers. I saw something that they've played the second easiest schedule in the league this year and their last three weeks are the hardest schedule in the league, but not past defense, I wouldn't say, when you have the Texans twice. To your point about the arm strength, the touchdown to AJ Brown on a play action where he had pressure in his face

and couldn't even really step in and drive the way you would think you would have to do on like a 50-yard downfield heave, puts it right on the money, a perfectly thrown ball. To me, I was an eye-opener that he really does have a very strong arm. Not to be a total jerk, but I have to start to question Adam Gase in the quarterback position. None of that was happening during Ryan's handle. I'm sorry.

But you said that on Sunday also. We got that. I got that. Well, I didn't mean to double down on that. I think I said it Sunday. You said it Thursday. We're just bringing up once the show. Do you want me to defend Adam Gase?

No, I don't. I cannot because I am not interested in doing that. I know, but sometimes it's fun to see to what extent you're not interested. I don't think he's doing the whole thing with the spy gate to see how interested I am in defending them. For this one, not at all. Stop putting yourself in stupid situations. Thank you. What's wrong with you? Okay. What you, I didn't know we had to cook up these terms for each other. What you frozen turd burgers don't realize is that there is a sheep. there is an emperor with no clothes in the NFC

that currently has a buy if the season ended. The Packers aren't for real. You guys don't see that yet because you guys you look at wins and losses and you look, oh wow, they're handling their business.

But you know what? And I'm not going to go too crazy about the last two weeks because if you get the Giants and the Redskins and back-to-back Weeks, you might not, you know, be completely pumped up and drop bombs back to back weeks. They just got the job done. But then you take a closer look at their schedule.

You know, the last time they played a real team, the 49ers embarrassed them, 37 to 8. And then it was like, where is the win where you kind of sit up in your chair and you go, ah, yeah, the Packers, man. They beat the Chiefs. That was an Arrowhead, but Patrick Mahomes wasn't playing. Yeah, Matt Moore. They beat, they killed the Raiders the week before. which was in the moment.

That was a nice win in the moment. But, you know, as we've kind of come to learn, that's obviously not a gifted Raiders team. They beat the Cowboys in Dallas in week five, but that was already when the Cowboys began their kind of slow descent into mediocrity. They don't really have, like, a team like the 49ers. They beat the Vikings.

Okay. They're way back in week two. That's a week two, though. I mean, that is ancient history, but I'll give you that. That's a legitimate win. Lost to the Eagles. My point because,

being is that while a team like the 49ers, to use an example, being battle tested week after week and you know what you got in them, if the Packers face one of these big boys in a big spot, do I think this offense is going to necessarily make the plays it needs to make? Do I think this defense should ever be trusted? No, this might have the feel like one of those 12 and 4 teams that just kind of fizzle out in their first playoff game. We always fall back on, hey, as long as you make the playoffs, that's all that matter. It's a new season that starts then. But what kind of analysis is that? Every team has the same chance once the playoffs starts?

No, the Packers, I agree with you, are not that impressive. They are one of the least impressive 10 and three teams I've seen. And they sound like it. They're frustrated. Rogers and Lefleur sounded like they lost that game. I mean, they were pretty furious, I think, with their offensive performance afterwards. I don't think it's not that everything leading up didn't matter. I mean, this team especially that hasn't had a track record under this coach,

they need to start putting it together. All right, Greg, close it out. All right. What you, uh, imbeciles. Nice. All right. Fatuous. Did you say fatuous?

I already said that. That's, uh, a buzzer. Probably impetuets. How about what you chatterboxy? He's got a the thither. Right now. No. People don't realize the way to stop the Ravens is necessarily.

You people don't realize. What you bird, brained fools don't realize is the way to stop the Ravens isn't necessarily with a great rush defense who really needs a great rush defense what you need is a great pass defense you have two of the best past defense in the league keep the Ravens under 300 yards and I know the weather was you know not great that was a factor a newsflass the weather might not be great in the postseason either in Baltimore the fact that they were under 300 yards in back-to-back weeks to me is an interesting development.

And the way that they did it so similarly, the 49ers and the Bills, by trusting a great secondary to just win one-on-one matchups and crowd the middle of the field and stuff those Mark Ingram runs for the most part and have some athletes that can make plays on the outside. Not many teams have that. It's not like you can just carbon copy the 49ers of the Bills roster. But the way that they've just absolutely over the last two weeks slowed down the Ravens' passing attack by saying beat us, beat us one-on-one with those wide receivers, and the Ravens

haven't really been able to do it, I think was eye-opening. And I look at one team in particular in the AFC, the Kansas City Chiefs, who can play pretty good pass defense and just dare you to match up one-on-one, and who knows? I think that is a tough match-up. It's also happened to be the opponent that made Lamar Jackson look the worst. And everyone, okay, that was way earlier in the season. That's fine. It was still his worst game of the season. by far, and he was especially lost in that game throwing the ball. I thought the Browns did the same thing the week later. But if you want to look at

the Bills game specifically, Markies Brown has been in a slump, and he's not healthy. He had negative two yards receiving in that game, and they lost Mark Andrews early on, and their offense to me is just simply not the same without him on the field. So they were a little banged up, but the guys, to the point of their depth, if you don't have Brown, and he's not been healthy, it feels like in ages, and as something happens to Mark Andrews, They are pick-off candidates for that.

I mean, look, I think they're one of the great regular season teams that keep saying that. But I do think that we've seen maybe a great secondary, great past events like Buffalo, like Kansas City, maybe like New England, you know, can create some problems because you don't want to be too one-dimensional if you're there. How did they lose last year? Great timing, great. We spin this right into TNF preview, Jets at Ravens. And my question is, I see some similarities, 2019 Ravens. 2007 Patriots, where I'm asking, did they peak too soon? That's what I was just thinking.

They were a juggernaut for two months. And like, we saw that graphic on TV out of Lamar Jackson's like last 33 drives. 24 of them had been touchdowns. There were more kneel downs than punts. And now they are, they're winning games, just like the 2007 Patriots, kind of stumbled to the finish line. I'm not even ready to go that far but I do think to expect them to be

just a juggernaut rushing attack and offense throughout the playout. It's probably not going to work out that way and they'll say look at how well our defense is playing they can win games different types of ways but you can't expect to get six touchdowns and six possessions in a game. Yes they came out of their week eight by they had a three game winning street coming into the buy then they came out dropped 37 points on the Patriots

48 on the Bengals, 41 on Houston, 45 on the Rams. Gosh, that's amazing. And so that was one of the great runs. Feels like someone ripping off a Ravens Madden season in their living room. That was arguably the greatest November we've ever seen. Maybe the 2007 Patriots have something to say. But those are four games all played in November where they just absolutely dominated the league and dominated some good teams as well.

Will they ever get back to that height? Maybe, maybe not. But the Jets are a good team for them to just, you know, work on some things if they feel like they've gotten a little bit out of whack because obviously the Jets have struggled to score a lot of points. Their defense has, I believe, overperformed. They've had a nice season, but by no means are they a defense that should give Lamar Jackson and the Ravens a lot of trouble.

I think one thing to watch for me, if I'm watching this from, you know, what is the, what are we looking for? why does this game matter? Because we all assume or even Ravens easy Ravens victory as does the desert two touchdowns in fact

is Lamar Jackson moving well he has this quad injury that's popped up that is not inconsequential because he's a guy that's shown he could throw the ball this year. Ian did tweet that Lamar said he's feeling great.

Now I know that players everyone says that. So you've got to see it you got to see if he can make it through a whole game. Is he going to use his legs to make plays outside the pocket which is what makes him

truly special? so I think that will be the thing to watch in Thursday night which otherwise is going to be a hard game even NFL Network you know they've been doing those ads all season where they have the two fan bases like barking at each other

I don't even think they did that for this game because they knew we're not going to have some fake Jets fan like talking down to a Ravens fan right now that's a good call I haven't seen yeah I think that's I think they they lost it for this game way to read the room

yeah so it just gives you a vibe of where this game should be heading we'll find out how the Ravens handle being immense. I do wonder if some of the downtick on offense, and now you play the 49ers and Bills, and that's in tough weather too. In tough weather, but you have, they lost Matt Scurr, their center. Ronnie Stanley, their left tackle is a concussion right now

and is iffy, especially on a short week. And the bills put heat on Lamar Jackson. And, you know, obviously he can shift on a dime and do crazy stuff and run for huge yardage. But they found a way to get three or four people around him and collapse the pocket and make it life tough for him, it's not... If Josh Allen could hit a pass, I mean, they were beatable in that day.

A quarter of their punts on the season came in that game. It even took Lamar, those three touchdown throws were really good... Well, it was like two, it was three because they barely punted at all. It's one reason why Lamar is the MVP, I think by a decent amount right now, is like even the three touchdowns that he threw, they were not easy plays to complete. Like, that took an extra special effort for him to get those three touchdowns. They could have been held to a lot less.

You know why Lamar has to be the MVP? he's going to break Vick's rushing record single season and lead the NFL in passing touchdowns. How can you give it to someone else? At this point. And Russell Wilson just had a big loss and he's not been pristine over the last three weeks is a long time, though.

I've seen some people say, it is over. It's like, all right, there's three games. It can happen. And a nice season closing test for my boy, Darnold. He's got at Ravens, home Steelers, at Buffalo. Yikes. Close out the year. So if he is indeed making progress,

we would see it here. if he's kind of flatlined or behind that offensive line against teams that get after quarterback it could be trouble if he's plateaued I shouldn't say flatline because he's coming off probably his worst game of the year against the Dolphins so I'm hopeful but he faces a challenge here um all right that's that before we go on we're not picking that game I'm locking up the Ravens um and the other thing I think is like Does Adam Gase get the most out of his players on offense? I mean, that's a thing that we... It's a question that keeps coming up.

And I don't know if anyone's drawn that correlation yet, but keep an eye on. Only every 15 minutes do we ask that question. All right. Mark, you wrote a banger. Didn't read it yet. Just went up. But I planned to. He wrote about the Raiders.

You wrote about the end of Oakland football in the NFL. And you spoke to a lot of people. connected with the organization and got a better idea of where the vibe is during this historic time in the organization. Yeah, among them are Shell, Tim Brown, Fred Blitnikov, Marcel Reese, Phil Villapiano, who is a linebacker from ages old, and you probably would recognize him from old Raiders, NFL films, but was about the most interesting 13-minute conversation I've ever had with the next football player. He always speaks his mind. He speaks his mind. He was dropping F-bombs.

I mean, he was having fun. Who was the biggest jerk that you spoke to? Had to be, no, Amy Trass, too, and she was awesome because you're getting people. She wasn't the biggest jerk. No, she was, no, she was very valuable because they're coming from different angles here. For me, because when you write these things and you kind, and I don't handle them well. Like, I, like, just van it, like, I'm not really mentally aware, and it was really hard to do, like, preview shows where I'm trying to write this and do the game studying at the same time, and that probably showed. But it's, I just got sucked into it.

Don't neg yourself. You always you nag yourself when we do these. It's just because I just became all consumed for like a 48-hour period by a team that, like, I don't think I've ever really felt the Raiders thing the way that I feel like I'm supposed to. For the drenched in lore and how much of an underdog they were starting in the AFL and toying with bankruptcy that Ralph Wilson of the Bills had to loan money to the early Oakland Raiders operation to save essentially the entire NFL because they would have been down to seven teams. So all these little steps along the way and then Al Davis shows up in a way that Bill Belichick would and is seen by some who were around as one of the finest NFL coaches in history.

And I just, little things that I learned along the way sucked me into the Raiders experience and made me really fall for them hard for, you know, during writing this. And it's like you don't want to become married to what you're writing about, but it was impossible to not feel bad for the fans of Oakland because I think this move has been easier, obviously, than many others. but the people in Oakland specifically who have lost the Warriors and they're now losing this team that's been tied to their heart for so long

is a tough one to swallow. And I get the Raiders travel well and they're going to go do what they do and they'll be fine in Vegas in a very different way. But I don't, one thing Amy Trass mentioned that I thought was true was that you go to that Coliseum, which is a story of its own, it's like 98% Raiders fans. And if you're a Chiefs fan in a Chiefs jersey, good luck to you and your family.

But Vegas is a different story. I think you're going to get a lot of different types of people making that part of three-day weekends. And she made a point that there may be a paradigm shift. You cannot count on that percentage of silver and black loyalists in the crowd at that point. It reminds me a bit of Baltimore and their love affair with the Colts and it was taken away from them where the Colts players like this was at a time in the 50s where they're living next door to fans, interacting with them, see them in the bars. Raiders fans in the 70s, you might see them at an ultimat concert or something like that, dropping acid, you know? Yep.

But that same kind of thing where you feel ingrained in the community like that and just took ownership, the fans took ownership of that team. 100%. Check it out, NFL.com slash silver and black. Silver and black. And there's already reverberations here. The Raiders just announced that they've waived the following players, Preston Brown, Thorell McLean and DJ Sweringer

Maybe not because they didn't read your long for him Maybe that's maybe that's something that's looking to Well for those players I mean it just went up Strange Yeah it would be weird But check it out Mark I know you put a lot of effort into it And your journey just begins Because now this weekend you're traveling

Up there to the Black Hole To be there for the final home game And it will be the final home game Because at 6 and 7 You know they didn't win in the division There will be no home playoff game. No. This is the end of the road.

Good stuff, Mark. All right. We will be back together again on Thursday. Previewing all the week 15 games, including the game Mark will be covering. Raiders against Titans. Ooh, that's a good one, too. Jaguars against Jaguars, not so good. But you'll get a W out of it.

Gardner Minshu. Oh, the Minchuvians will be out. Now, will you wear your Minchu jersey? No, I will definitely not be wearing a Gardner, Minchew jersey in that sense. And after the get, yeah, you're not going to. You can't go try to talk to the Minchu mania, the Minchu after the game. He's not the focus of this. Imagine you're wearing a Minchu jersey and the Raiders lose 24, 21 in overtime,

and you just start asking about the end of Raiders football in Oakland. In the black hole. Totally absurd. A terrible way to go about one's job. But you will be, just so everybody knows, Mark won't be. here for the Sunday recap because he'll be busy working and writing and hopefully

still be alive after that event but you will be drafting on behalf of others who will be filling in for you comes on. And there is a specific strategy that I will be employing. All right. I'm sure there is. A little cliffhanger there by Mark Sessler. All right. Let us go.

Dan Hans is signing off for Quiet Storm. NFL.com slash silver and black. The mailman, the old boss and Ricky Hollywood Hang in there, darling. Thank you. Till Thursday.

Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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